00:00:00 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:04 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 00:08:33 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:46 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac (34) 00:11:12 -!- therealfakemoot has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:15:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:16:01 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:19:00 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:09 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:19:55 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:20:56 is teleportitis set to teleport you into the middle of all the enemies it can? 00:23:52 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 00:26:50 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:11 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:15 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:01 -!- vissborg has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:28:55 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:29:37 -!- eternal_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:38:22 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:45:15 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 00:49:02 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:51:05 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 00:52:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:14 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:50 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:21:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:21 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:49 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:33:09 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:38:37 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:43:37 -!- jark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:51:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:04:05 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:58 -!- Finwe is now known as Finwe_^ 02:05:05 -!- Finwe_^ is now known as Finwe_ 02:05:16 -!- Finwe^ is now known as Finwe 02:06:56 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:45 -!- Finwe_ has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 02:09:52 -!- mibeto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:54 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 02:11:53 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:17:25 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:40 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:20:02 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 02:21:54 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac (34) 02:24:55 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:03 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:34:51 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:39:16 -!- Monkaria has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:39:25 -!- gareppa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:45 -!- Monkaria_ has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:29 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:10 -!- ekix has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:49:49 -!- LIX has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:53:55 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:42 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:06:02 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:28 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:13:56 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:27 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:35 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:22:48 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:48 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:43 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:38:39 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:20 -!- olourkin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:37 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:21 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:38 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:11 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:32 -!- kats has quit [Quit: Metro? Aero? Hell no! The pinnacle of Microsoft UI design was Windows Two Oh Oh Oh!] 04:35:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:36:30 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:19 -!- stevee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:40:14 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:28 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:44 -!- Pyro_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:00:16 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:01:37 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:05:03 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:12:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:55 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:47 -!- Guest38154 has quit [Quit: ₪₪₪-₪₪₪-₪₪-₪₪₪] 05:34:55 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:36:43 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 05:42:38 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 05:57:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02:08 -!- Voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:50 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:09:23 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:34 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:15:19 -!- domiryuu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:08 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 06:37:40 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 06:56:31 -!- Hty has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:01:46 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:24 -!- comebackshane has quit [Client Quit] 07:02:52 -!- comebackshane has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:13 When's Mahvel? 07:03:25 I-I-I mean... 07:03:30 WHEN?S PAKELLAS? 07:06:38 -!- comebackshane has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:39 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 07:25:05 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:24 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:25 shadow traps are cool, they make for some tricky situations 07:34:45 but am I the only one that thinks the summons last a touch too long? 07:35:20 unknown monster: "git" 07:35:20 %?? git 07:35:20 Lasty: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:35:28 %git 07:35:28 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac: Revert "Doom another vestige of porridge." (geekosaur) 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d2600ac58c8b 07:37:15 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:39:28 -!- Mattybee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:42:35 !tell dpeg re duplication, my problems with it are the fact that 1) gozag wrath is very weak so it's genuinely viable to convert to G just to duplicate something and abandon again, 2) it's available immediately which ties into 1) and also means its main use is to multiply the effects of an early lucky find 07:42:35 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:43:52 !tell dpeg and i think not allowing it immediately would shift it more into the direction of "duplicate a big stack of consumbles" which i also don't like 07:43:52 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:46:11 !tell dpeg i guess failing removal, my preference would be to not allow it immediately (make it cost a few thousand gold or something) and not allow it to work on stacks again 07:46:11 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:46:14 +1 on both counts 07:48:40 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:59:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:01:22 also i see people were talking about maybe feature freeze or something? so i'll try and push ely stuff today so it has time for numbertweaking 08:02:02 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:46 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:06 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:22 -!- MDvedh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:05:01 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:18 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:50 -!- johnf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:12:12 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:26 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:03 -!- markgo` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:21:04 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:26:28 -!- djinni has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:28 -!- ivan`` has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:27:30 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:23 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:40:54 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41:24 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:58 -!- Helsbecter has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:48:21 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:27 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:51:03 MarvinPA: Ely stuff? 08:53:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59:47 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:03:09 MarvinPA: I'd love to see your Ely changes get into 0.16 09:03:27 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:12 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:33 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:09 -!- Porost is now known as Poroso 09:06:44 !hs * -2 log 09:06:46 3936345/3936346. PurpleRed, XL26 VSBe, T:21968: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/PurpleRed/morgue-PurpleRed-20140721-092721.txt 09:12:08 -!- djinni has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:12:08 -!- ivan`` has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:13:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15:16 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:00 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3856-g78cd654: Fix rakshasa cloned monsters being marked as summoned 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=78cd65402f03 09:16:00 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3857-gb6c31dd: Make rakshasa cloned monsters escape constriction (#9459) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b6c31dd7d8a7 09:16:02 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:02 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:24:24 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: hm, what about nets? 09:24:37 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: or is that already handled? 09:25:38 hm good question 09:25:45 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: also there's a comment a few lines down that is probably not relevant anymore? 09:26:19 oh heh, yeah 09:29:46 what's the syntax for giving monsters spells through &m now? 09:30:01 <|amethyst> spells:phantom_mirror.200.wizard 09:30:08 aha, i was trying commas 09:30:10 <|amethyst> 200 would make it cast it constantly 09:30:10 thanks 09:30:45 <|amethyst> hm 09:31:19 -!- markgo` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:30 <|amethyst> I was going to suggest &z but that doesn't make dummy monsters for non-player spells anymore 09:34:19 i guess it looks like currently they escape nets only if the clones get swapped in position 09:35:03 <|amethyst> hm 09:35:13 <|amethyst> I guess webs might be different 09:36:26 an orc, wielding a mace and wearing a ring mail (entangled in a web) 09:36:36 (that's an orc that was previously in a net and then got cloned) 09:36:46 <|amethyst> yeah 09:36:52 <|amethyst> I guess it stayed caught 09:36:59 <|amethyst> cloned and moved? 09:37:03 <|amethyst> s/moved/swapped/ 09:37:48 cloned and stayed still i think, if it gets swapped there's a call to mons_clear_trapping_net() 09:38:09 <|amethyst> hm... what happened to the net then? 09:38:57 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 09:39:26 Malaphysto (L15 DsFi) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 114: ZotDef: monster oklob sapling failed to pathfind to (40,43) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 09:40:00 <|amethyst> the two effects use the same enchantment at the monster level and it determines which flag the monster_info gets based on whether there's a trapping net at that position 09:40:07 not sure exactly what causes it to lose track of the net item in that case, though 09:44:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:35 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:19 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:52:16 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:54 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:01:09 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:01:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:19 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:21 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:39 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:52 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:59 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3858-g7c973a3: Don't display a duplicate entry for Naga with breathe poison (#9449) 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c973a38c67b 10:17:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3859-ge729fee: Free cloned monsters from nets, too (|amethyst) 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e729fee78644 10:17:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3860-gcf4aa41: Make the finger necklace's extra ring slot count for Ash bondage 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf4aa410fa62 10:20:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:21:35 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:01 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:25 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:52 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 10:38:35 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:39:14 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:49:33 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:52:40 -!- orionstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:54:06 -!- omni5cience_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:55:08 -!- omni5cience_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:54 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:29 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:44 -!- dustinm`` has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07:17 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12:27 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:23 -!- Voker57|2 has quit [] 11:21:30 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 11:21:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3860-gcf4aa41 (34) 11:22:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:23:01 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:15 there's something really odd about Nergalle spamming spectral orcs to kill the spectral orcs Nergalle spammed at me before recognizing me as orc jesus 11:25:28 yeah summons interact weirdly with loyalty changing effects 11:35:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:13 <|amethyst> hm, should Lugonu lose corpse sac too 11:35:28 <|amethyst> it doesn't interact with the other abilities the way Trog's corpse sac does 11:35:43 <|amethyst> s/the other abilities/another ability/ 11:36:04 +100 11:37:58 lugonu piety gain is also incredibly fast, i was planning on slowing it down a bit 11:38:09 so losing corpse sac with no compensation would probably be a sensible way of doing that 11:38:37 how does Trog's corpse sac interact with another ability? 11:38:37 minmay: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:38:41 !messages 11:38:42 (1/1) Lasty_ said (1d 20h 9m 25s ago): FWIW, I pushed a change to reduce artefact property spam. 11:45:43 <|amethyst> minmay: slightly with berserk, at least for some races, because of hunger 11:45:58 <|amethyst> even if "interact" means "they use more permafood" 11:46:07 <|amethyst> s/means/means just/ 11:46:53 <|amethyst> I guess in practice it doesn't matter because you don't need the corpse piety from every corpse 11:47:29 <|amethyst> (make trog give no kill piety if the monster left a corpse) 11:47:59 |amethyst: I don't see how that's different from every other ability with a hunger cost 11:48:37 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:37 |amethyst: and even if it is, surely that would apply to worshippers of other sacrifice gods if they find a +Rage item 11:48:58 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:18 <|amethyst> *shrug* 11:49:28 <|amethyst> I wouldn't object to Trog losing corpse sacrifice too 11:51:22 rip corpse sacrifice 11:51:26 <|amethyst> Is anyone left besides Trog and Fedhas? 11:51:30 <|amethyst> and Lugonu 11:51:34 <|amethyst> I would object to Fedhas losing it 11:52:03 yeah, fedhas' corpse sacrifice actually is kind of useful since it's the whole LOS and generates useful toadstools 11:52:16 Fedhas's is the only one I like 11:52:18 plus it instakills necrophages, which is hilarious and great 11:52:30 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 11:52:30 I think that fedhas should give piety when corpses rot away normally 11:52:30 <|amethyst> nicolae-: zombie -> skeleton 11:52:35 <|amethyst> nicolae-: ossuary bleach 11:52:40 so that you only have to spam 'p' when you actually want toadstools 11:52:48 <|amethyst> minmay: that has weird interaction with on-vs-off level 11:52:49 nicolae-: does that still give you no XP? 11:52:57 i have no idea 11:53:09 |amethyst: oh, good point. I guess there's no chance of getting him changed to piety-for-kills :P 11:53:25 nicolae-: last time I tried it, it didn't, so it was generally optimal to avoid using it which is awful 11:53:58 <|amethyst> looks like it does KILL_MISCm NON_MONSTER 11:54:06 <|amethyst> s/m /, / 11:54:22 yeah, you get no xp 11:54:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:26 someon fix that please 11:54:31 <|amethyst> Grunt: do you see any reason not to make Fedhas ghoul kill do KILL_YOU ? 11:55:24 hm, is it hard to make it give the appropriate partial xp for zombie -> skeleton 11:55:29 titan zombie (07Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 20 | HP: 153-190 | AC/EV: 8/0 | Dam: 51 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(26), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 843 | Sz: Giant | Int: plant. 11:55:29 %??titan zombie 11:55:31 titan skeleton (15Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 20 | HP: 127-157 | AC/EV: 4/0 | Dam: 51 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(26), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 790 | Sz: Giant | Int: plant. 11:55:31 %??titan skeleton 11:55:47 <|amethyst> minmay: I wouldn't think so, you could just calc before and after and subtract 11:56:31 <|amethyst> minmay: I guess that would have weird interactions with ally XP splitting 11:56:52 yeah, that's the sort of thing I was thinking of 11:57:30 <|amethyst> do something to rescale the hp credit 11:57:49 <|amethyst> based on how much HP it lose as a zombie and has as a skeleton 11:57:59 <|amethyst> made easier by knowing it hasn't healed 11:58:18 <|amethyst> (hm, ghostly flame I guess, but eh) 11:58:33 <|amethyst> s/lose/lost/ 11:58:47 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:47 ghostly flame can increase zombies' max hp? that sounds awful 11:58:54 <|amethyst> no, I mean heal them 11:58:56 -!- ldierk has quit [Changing host] 11:58:56 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:06 how can you heal a zombie/skeleton without increasing its max hp? 11:59:13 <|amethyst> oh, duh 11:59:23 <|amethyst> I imagine you're right then 11:59:27 <|amethyst> and it doesn't heal them 11:59:30 <|amethyst> I hadn't tested 12:01:14 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:02:09 <|amethyst> honestly, though, just giving you full credit for the difference is fine 12:02:15 I do worry that this unspoiled players probably won't be able to figure this out 12:02:36 not sure how the first "this" got there 12:02:44 <|amethyst> since you (fedhas on behalf of you) did all the work of that transformation 12:03:23 |amethyst: yeah, and it rescales the monster's current HP, so keeping the existing damage percentages for the skeleton would work as expected, right? 12:04:01 uh 12:04:08 okay 12:04:13 I just found out something very bad in the course of this 12:04:22 "You heal the titan skeleton." 12:05:04 <|amethyst> oh, right 12:05:04 seems that zombies/skeletons don't actually take damage to max HP, their health level is just hidden 12:05:09 <|amethyst> yeah 12:05:44 that seems like something that needs to be changed 12:05:51 <|amethyst> they don't regen either so I don't really see the problem 12:06:15 |amethyst: imagine you have allied zombies and there is a ghost crab; you can use the crab to heal your zombies 12:06:22 which otherwise you can't do unless you have a wand 12:06:37 since they don't regen 12:07:07 probably without ghostly flame existing, the current zombie/skeleton behaviour was fine 12:08:59 <|amethyst> what about enslaving a monster with a heal other spell? 12:09:01 I suppose this problem sort of exists with chaos clouds too 12:09:07 ah, yes, that as well 12:09:37 or putting an invisible zombie between an orc priest and an orc, that probably works too 12:10:23 it just doesn't make sense to me that they can heal at all, since the game pretty much does everything to fool the player into thinking they take damage to max HP (it fooled me for like 6 years apparently) 12:10:52 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:57 <|amethyst> does it show a full bar? 12:11:09 <|amethyst> I realise you don't play tiles 12:11:11 it doesn't show a bar at all in tiles 12:11:22 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:11:22 ^ 12:11:23 because it claims they're always at full HP 12:11:27 which has no bar 12:11:46 the interface acts as if they are always at full HP 12:12:41 and since they clearly take damage and die, combined with the hint that they don't regenerate, the only sensible conclusion for players to come to is that they take damage to max HP or something equivalent 12:13:05 yeah that's what i always thought until now too 12:13:30 <|amethyst> I'd be fine with making them incapable of healing 12:13:37 <|amethyst> changing max hp does things to their XP value 12:20:39 !learn edit zombie[1] s/, and take damage to maxHP instead of HP/ 12:20:40 zombie[1/2]: There are two kinds of zombies, small and large. All zombies are created from a base monster type. Zombies are slightly slower, slightly clumsier, have no special attacks. It is very important to note that the zombie form of a normal speed monster is *slower* than normal speed! 12:21:15 <|amethyst> or could add another mon_dam_level_type and indicate the difference somehow 12:22:23 oh, people thought that they took damage to maxHP? I had been told at some point that they just don't heal and had always assumed that to be the case 12:22:41 since it certainly looked like they just never heal if you stair dance them 12:22:43 -!- Tungsten has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:44 <|amethyst> ??badlearndb 12:22:44 badlearndb[1/1]: badentries are gone 12:22:53 but I guess the end result would be similar wouldn't it 12:22:56 <|amethyst> ?/bad 12:22:56 Matching terms (19): bad_excuses, bad_forms, bad_ideas, bad_randarts, bad_tele, bad_vaults, badbbs, badchar, badcode, badlearndb, badplayers, badreddit, badshaft, badtele, badteleport, badwiki, badwiki_gham_guide, implemented_bad_ideas, implemented_badforum; entries (138): abyss[4] | alexor[3] | amulet_of_inaccuracy[1] | aptitude[1] | arkane_marksperson[1] | awesome_ideas[1] | b0rsuk[1] | b0rsuk[7... 12:23:16 minmay: just shows again how the advice you get from tiles players is superior 12:23:25 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:23:33 and of course the delightful conversation is priceless 12:24:32 <|amethyst> oh, hm 12:24:37 <|amethyst> actually 12:24:44 |amethyst: wait, so what happens when you rot a monster? does it lose XP value? 12:24:44 <|amethyst> you can do that already with enemy_hp_colour 12:25:12 or do monsters actually have mmhp like players 12:28:19 Do Beogh orcs only get promoted if they get a kill themselves? 12:28:43 <|amethyst> minmay: looks like they do not have mmhp so rotting would reduce their XP 12:28:49 Lasty: I wish the learndb was up to date about what all beogh stuff does in general 12:28:59 I might have to update some entries myself when I get to HOFE again 12:29:03 <|amethyst> s/ so/, so/ 12:29:06 I'd update it but I have no idea' 12:29:18 Lasty: you'd have to play Beogh! 12:29:19 I am :'( 12:29:20 |amethyst: yeah, that seems wrong 12:29:23 !lm lasty 12:29:23 6967. [2015-01-31 18:24:03] Lasty the Cleaver (L15 HOGl of Beogh) reached level 15 of the Dungeon on turn 27279. (D:15) 12:29:24 !polytheist 12:29:25 Unwon gods for Lasty: Beogh 12:29:32 perfect! lasty can update the entries 12:29:42 and I can benefit from them having made no effort on my part 12:29:47 well, I'm playing it, and I still have no idea 12:29:53 ??beogh 12:29:54 beogh[1/5]: The Orc god. Only Orcs can worship Beogh, although they can do so as soon as they find an orc priest to convert them. Powers include Smiting, Orcish Allies, Life saving, and Water Walking. Likes killing things and sacrificing orc corpses. 12:29:58 ??beogh[2 12:29:58 beogh[2/5]: Beogh gives you virtual armour skill points based on your piety (+.5 to +2.5). In 0.13-, this only applied if you wore orcish armour, but Beogh also supported orcish weapons (+0 to +6, based on piety) there were bonuses all orcs recieved for wearing orcish armour (+2) and orcish weapons (+1 damage bonus, as per magic bonuses). 12:30:04 ??beogh[3 12:30:04 beogh[3/5]: The green rat evaporates and reforms as an orc! B - a wand of polymorph other {zapped: 1} The orc falls on its knees before you. It asks, "Are you our saviour?" 12:30:12 yeah so entries 1 and 2 seem to be it 12:30:19 ?/beogh 12:30:19 Matching terms (6): beogh, beogh_reasons, beogh_retribution, beogh_smiting, beogh_unreasons, beogh_wrath; entries (37): altar[1] | beogh[1] | beogh[2] | beogh[4] | beogh_retribution[1] | beogh_smiting[1] | beogh_wrath[2] | bog[1] | casmith789[4] | cheibriados[6] | eocrawl[1] | evil_gods[1] | funny_messages[18] | gammafunk[3] | gods[2] | hill_orc[1] | hill_orc_reasons[1] | implemented_bad_ideas[11]... 12:30:38 <|amethyst> gammafunk: git log --grep probably 12:31:08 |amethyst: The prefered source of DCSS documentation we recommend to our players! 12:31:25 <|amethyst> well, somebody has to write the learndb entries :) 12:31:39 yeah I will update some of them when I play 12:31:51 usually PF would update them when he changes something, but I think he just forgot this time 12:32:30 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:56 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:15 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:06 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:37:25 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:55 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:47:12 -!- DirkDiggler has quit [Client Quit] 12:53:42 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 12:59:34 -!- Unano has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:00:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:02:38 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:09 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:25 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:40 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16:06 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 13:20:39 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:19 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:39 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:21 -!- stink is now known as Guest74997 13:39:43 -!- jark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:55 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:31 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:56 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:45 * AtomikKrab blames pleasingfungus 14:01:59 -!- cykeltillsalu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:52 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:06 -!- a___ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:07:24 -!- Yermak has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:30 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3861-gb24369f: Don't trim artefact names in webtiles 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24369f1f947 14:11:50 what in particular about the beogh entries is out of date? 14:11:50 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:12 PleasingFungus: they don't address beogh's current follower management 14:12:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: not out of date, but gammafunk was looking for details about when orcs get blessed, whether them getting the kill matters for that, etc 14:12:18 it's more that it doesn't really include any information, i guess 14:12:25 about a lot of things 14:12:34 oh 14:12:45 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:48 it seems like beogh only rewards followers when they get kills which encourages very boring gameplay 14:13:08 that's not quite true 14:15:05 that's how it has played out for me 14:15:06 -!- olourkin has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:11 monsters can be blessed under the following circumstances: (1) they gain enough xp to earn an xl (1/3 * random2(you.piety) > piety_breakpoint(2)); 14:18:18 (2) you get a kill and random2(you.piety) > piety_breakpoint(2)) and either you're in LOS of a follower (in which case, if you roll a 1/10 chance, one of them gets picked randomly for a blessing), or you have a follower elsewhere in the level and roll a 1/20 chance 14:18:39 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:51 (3) a follower gets a kill and random2(you.piety) > piety_breakpoint(2)) and rolls a 2/3 chance 14:19:21 so followers are dramatically more likely to get blessings from getting kills than from you getting kills 14:19:43 yeah, so it's encouraged to let your followers get kills 14:19:53 just like in my fire emblems.... 14:20:01 which means waitin a lot 14:20:16 -!- Sprort has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:19 the xp cost, tho 14:21:17 kidding, right? 14:21:20 ya 14:21:54 I rewrote the way that blessings work *once they fire*, a while back, but I never touched how they're triggered 14:22:13 I'd really like to rewrite triggers to not care about who gets the kill. Anyone object? 14:22:36 which set of odds will you use 14:23:44 I was thinking merge cases 2 and 3 and average out the odds to something like 1/5 14:23:45 -!- Whistling_Beard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:46 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:44 ok, I'll do it, since I'm familiar with the code 14:25:38 ty 14:25:53 !source mons_is_object 14:25:53 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc;hb=HEAD#l711 14:26:01 <|amethyst> I wonder if random2(you.piety) > piety_breakpoint(n) happens enough to warrant a function 14:26:15 also those don't count if you kill them, but they do count if pals kill them 14:26:22 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:23 |amethyst: grep..... 14:28:15 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:30 <|amethyst> 8 occurrences, all either 0 or 2, all but one in mon-death 14:29:45 someone should rewrite mon-death 14:29:47 imho 14:31:15 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:32:12 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:30 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:41 hm 14:35:48 a uniform 1/5 chance is a huge nerf, I think 14:35:52 !log * beogh won 14:35:53 334. buddha, XL27 HOFi, T:72709: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/buddha/morgue-buddha-20150131-181615.txt 14:35:54 !log * beogh won -2 14:35:55 333/334. DenpaOtoko, XL27 HOFi, T:43958: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/DenpaOtoko/morgue-DenpaOtoko-20150131-072245.txt 14:35:56 !log * beogh won -3 14:35:57 332/334. NaotaZ, XL27 HOFi, T:75250: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/NaotaZ/morgue-NaotaZ-20150128-100740.txt 14:37:18 2:1 player:ally kills in the first one (~725 blessings) 14:37:33 would be about 500 with a 1/5 uniform chance 14:38:16 second one is 700:3000 player:ally kills; would go from ~2070 blessings to ~700 14:38:38 third is about 2:1 again 14:38:54 !log * beogh won -4 14:38:55 331/334. cybersaint2k, XL27 HOFi, T:76211: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/cybersaint2k/morgue-cybersaint2k-20150127-091058.txt 14:38:56 !log * beogh won -5 14:38:56 330/334. heteroy, XL27 HOCK, T:91741: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/heteroy/morgue-heteroy-20150126-070721.txt 14:39:35 that one's not actually a beoghite 14:39:37 !log * beogh won -6 14:39:38 329/334. zarzak, XL27 HOFi, T:86539: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/zarzak/morgue-zarzak-20150125-040403.txt 14:39:54 :shrug: 14:40:00 it could be more if you want 14:40:08 I'm trying to figure out the right number 14:41:21 if we assume that 2:1 is reasonable, I think we'd want a 1/2 chance of blessing per kill (assuming the piety check is passed, so actually lower than that in practice) 14:41:51 gonna go with 1/3 for caution 14:42:14 ...eh, feh 14:43:28 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:43:46 -!- cykeltillsalu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:12 also if you have suggestions for a better system for orc reinforcements, I would be happy to hear it 14:44:17 the current one is bad + spoilery 14:44:58 PleasingFungus: oh, is it? 14:45:01 I don't really know how it works 14:45:12 if you kill a bad guy 14:45:25 and roll a random2(you.piety) >= piety_breakpoint(2) check 14:45:26 2:1 seems like a ridiculously high ratio of ally kills to me, but I don't like waiting around while allies kill stuff 14:45:34 and then roll a 1/20 check 14:45:51 with no other followers anywhere on the level 14:45:55 then beogh will drop pals on your head 14:46:10 basically, to get reinforcements, leave all your guys on an earlier level, get some kills until you get reinforcements, repeat 14:46:36 this is probably only a good idea if you're down to your last few followers 14:46:58 oh, ah 14:47:23 probably better to keep track of how many followers exist and then give reinforcements if the number is low 14:47:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3862-g2143467: Checkwhite 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2143467d230e 14:47:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3863-g61a0766: Remove Beoghite last-hitting (Lasty) 10(14 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61a0766303b7 14:47:29 maybe 14:47:32 I'd kind of like it as an active ability 14:47:35 what if you had a stable of X followers, and they always got ressurected after a while 14:47:39 good change 14:47:39 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:48:39 active ability makes sense to me 14:48:46 ontoclasm: I'd like that 14:49:01 anyone mind if I rebuild cszo just to get that patch? :p 14:49:08 or is that abuse of dev privileges? 14:51:10 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:51:36 what are dev powers for, if not abuse 14:51:37 I think that is fine 14:55:04 unknown monster: "rebuild" 14:55:04 %?? rebuild 14:55:08 ??rebuild 14:55:08 rebuild[1/2]: https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 14:55:32 rebuild (13Q) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 17 | HP: 74-97 | AC/EV: 2/17 | Dam: 27, 11, 11 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 2046 | Sp: b.lightning (3d22), battlesphere, freezing cloud (2d27) / b.magma (3d26), battlesphere, fireball (3d27) / b.venom (3d21), b.corrosive (3d21), battlesphere, poisonous cloud (3d11) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:55:32 %??tengu reaver name:rebuild n_rpl 14:56:59 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [] 14:58:46 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:20 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:20 The build was broken. (master - 61a0766 #1690 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/49029197 15:00:20 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 15:02:47 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15.2-0-g9b7472d 15:03:30 that beogh change seems good to me 15:03:38 1/2 might be too high 15:03:54 I might shift it down in a little bit 15:04:17 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:13 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:54 How 'bout 1/5? :D 15:06:12 I was thinking 1/3 or 1/4 15:06:14 honestly 15:06:59 Lasty: I knew you were a winscummer! 15:07:04 does anyone who knows webtile things have any idea how #9460 would interact with webtiles? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9460 15:07:12 he sent me that earlier 15:07:12 gammafunk: It's true! I've played >1 game of crawl! 15:07:18 I admit it!!!!! :( 15:07:19 <|amethyst> 2:1 player to ally seems common, 3/10 would have made that first game even 15:07:24 from glancing over it, it wouldn't touch any kind of tiles at all - only replays from webtiles 15:07:27 tvs 15:07:34 it looks like exclusions do normally show up in webtiles in regular mode, but not in tile_display_mode = hybrid or glyph 15:07:43 <|amethyst> I guess I have very few data points to think it's common 15:07:49 oh I have no idea about weird display modes 15:07:51 I forgot about those 15:07:53 gammafunk: I used to think Aule was an earnest but stupid poster 15:08:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:13 gammafunk: but it's nice to see that he's clearly a troll 15:08:34 well the patch checks for local console so i think it would make exclusions then show up in those display modes in webtiles? 15:09:01 and wouldn't have any effect on the standard display mode 15:09:06 Lasty: yeah there's a pretty fine line between "obvlivious" and "troll" that some people seem to dance around I guess 15:09:09 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:14 er, checks for local tiles* 15:09:27 I mean, he openly admitted to using a stupid phrasing just to rile people up 15:09:28 *oblivious 15:09:33 i liked how he called you "vituperative" 15:09:39 %git 15:09:39 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3863-g61a0766: Remove Beoghite last-hitting (Lasty) 10(36 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61a0766303b7 15:09:51 putting that online dictionary to good use 15:10:12 heh, yeah 15:10:17 Lasty: if you change the number, you should also adjust the reinforcements chance 15:10:28 as I did in that patch 15:10:32 Awrighy 15:10:50 for oldbeogh 1/2 would probably not have been too high 15:10:57 considering it was the easiest to just go polearms all around 15:11:07 but nowadays that is probably not how people play beogh as much 15:11:16 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:21 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:30 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:56 the player likely gets a lot of kills 15:13:04 DrKe: when I looked at recent wins, the ratios of player to ally kills looked like: 2:1, 2:1, 2:7, 9:2, 7:3 15:13:14 (recent beoghite wins*() 15:13:41 hence my comment in the commit. big nerf to the 2:7 guy, big buff to the 9:2 guy, idk the moral 15:13:48 you should check the old korean skilled player of beogh games 15:13:52 it's probably like 1:10 15:13:56 !hs * beogh -log 15:13:57 37521. hanon12, XL23 LOFi, T:30139: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/hanon12/morgue-hanon12-20140119-134212.txt 15:14:02 404...! 15:14:05 !hs * beogh -log -2 15:14:06 37520/37521. hanon12, XL25 HOFi, T:36522: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/hanon12/morgue-hanon12-20140605-162326.txt 15:14:15 shit! 15:14:18 oh, right 15:14:20 !hs * beogh -log -2 !ckr 15:14:21 35216/35217. Thrall, XL27 HOFi, T:58882: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Thrall/morgue-Thrall-20131106-213536.txt 15:14:22 DrKe: this is kind of ##crawl, but my thought for HOFE^B was to take fire/conj to maybe 10-12 suitable for conj not much past low-power fireball (i.e. leveling Dex), and training axes when I find a reasonable one. Then focus on doing whatever necessary to get melee/defenses and my followers developed. 15:14:22 the admin of ckr said he lost them all 15:14:49 looks like about 2:3 for that one 15:14:53 player : ally kills 15:15:06 yeah thats reasonable but for that style of FE i usually just stop at sticky flame 15:15:12 sticky flame is where it's at, yeah 15:15:26 sure sticky flame was always going to be used more, but it does seem useful to have fireball 15:15:31 yer a terrible fungi 15:15:43 how do I get my horde of orc minions to only have polearms 15:15:50 you don't 15:16:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:16:02 alternate answer: play 0.14 15:16:40 hey you know how convokers dont try to summon once the level is clear? 15:17:01 it seems to me that "thinking about summoning", for lack of a better word, wastes a turn for the convoker 15:17:31 because i walk around and it slowly falls behind me. im a minotaur 15:17:43 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:27 do you have any idea how hard it is to coordinate a monster meeting? 15:18:27 there's nothing very special about recall 15:18:31 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:42 well, except for the way in which it's cast 15:18:54 monsters are notoriously bad schedulers, convokers have to be such good multi-taskers 15:18:58 so why has this guy stopped casting recall? 15:19:29 they do check if there's enough nastiness out of LOS to be worth recalling 15:19:39 but I think you're just noticing random energy 15:19:42 ah... and does that check waste a turn if they decide not to recall? 15:20:17 generally monster spells/abilities have a check that gives them the ability to do a valid action if the one that was chosen was invalid, yeah 15:20:39 convokers have word of recall and might other, which should have those fail checks 15:20:50 does recall? or perhaps do "valid actions" in this case include casting might other, which is also useless with no other monsters around 15:20:53 there's nothing special about the check for validity of word of recall; if it wastes a turn, so should everything else 15:21:05 like, every other monster in the game, when considering & rejecting casting a spell 15:21:07 which is possible 15:21:22 yeah monsters don't just "do nothing" if e.g. might other is chosen and there's nothing to might 15:21:32 unless that spell can might itself as well 15:23:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3864-g2d7fa9b: Change Elyvilon's piety gain to only be from exploration 10(7 days ago, 8 files, 19+ 147-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d7fa9b5a4be 15:23:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3865-g0b2a366: Rework Elyvilon's abilities 10(6 days ago, 15 files, 46+ 112-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0b2a36624d00 15:23:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3866-g94bad6d: Remove the Healer background 10(3 days ago, 8 files, 9+ 70-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94bad6d2547d 15:23:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3867-gee5d890: Remove some references to Death Knights 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 0+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee5d89009f74 15:23:08 03ChrisOelmueller02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.16-a0-3868-g1aa8fe1: Show travel exclusions on | terrain view 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 16+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1aa8fe1a1ace 15:23:08 03ChrisOelmueller02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.16-a0-3869-g23b77bc: New option: always_show_exclusions (display exclusions in viewport) 10(2 days ago, 5 files, 13+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=23b77bc96b71 15:23:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3870-gd0ebacf: Fix messaging when attempting to attack friendly uniques (#2935) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d0ebacfcee4b 15:23:28 yay! 15:23:29 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:48 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:56 -!- Adder has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:59 rip he 15:25:00 i didn't make any attempt to justify exploration piety flavourwise, ideas for that are welcome (i think no justification is fine really though) 15:25:05 sure 15:25:50 also it was suggested that seeing monsters rather than exploration might be better but i ended up sticking with exploration since i had no clue how to get useful stats on seeing monster piety 15:26:48 well, it's easy to see numbers of monsters generated by depth with things like objstat, but even then how do you weight each monster? 15:27:46 If we want to make ely into an incredible megazig god we could consider that though! 15:28:16 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-3871-gfbd3856: Cut the odds of Beogh blessing in half (1/4 on all kills now) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fbd3856a4275 15:28:18 !hs * ely zig 15:28:18 7. Farquar the Conqueror (L27 MiHe of Elyvilon), annihilated by an ancient bear on Zig:8 on 2014-02-04 17:29:51, with 665872 points after 137537 turns and 17:13:16. 15:28:32 well if you're looking for a zig clear with ely 15:28:34 that's a different query 15:28:38 but yeah it's been done 15:28:38 I know 15:28:41 was just curious 15:28:45 exploration piety is already good in zigs! but yes i guess seeing monsters even more so 15:28:46 about player deaths 15:29:00 Lasty: imo, that's the kind of commit that should come with reasoning in the actual commit message 15:29:15 heh, zot:5 radom tele to get those sweet piety gains when you see the oof 15:29:23 *random 15:30:50 PleasingFungus: oh. Sorry. 15:31:19 I figured it was an extension of the reasoning from your last commit 15:32:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:34:41 !hs . beogh -log 15:34:41 3. PleasingFungus, XL27 HOFi, T:82888: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140130-053830.txt 15:34:42 !hs . beogh -log -2 15:34:43 2/3. PleasingFungus, XL26 HOFE, T:67887: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140630-175629.txt 15:35:08 2:1, 2:1 15:35:30 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:16 would go from (2/10 + 1*2/3)/3 = ~0.29 blessings / kill (neglecting piety check) to 0.25. I guess that's ok 15:36:26 I think I might have messed up my math earlier 15:36:42 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:42 The build was fixed. (master - d0ebacf #1691 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/49031491 15:36:42 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 15:36:53 the heck, hofe died in zo 15:36:55 t 15:38:16 that was a funny death 15:38:28 I was being lazy about eating 15:39:05 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3871-gfbd3856 (34) 15:39:29 !lg devteamnp !boring recent br=zot s=name 15:39:29 16 games for devteamnp (!boring recent br=zot): 4x Lasty, 2x dpeg, 2x SGrunt, 2x bh, 2x PleasingFungus, 2x wheals, Medar, gammafunk 15:39:49 they call me Kid Choke 15:39:53 G 15:40:28 !lg devteamnp !boring recent br=depths s=name 15:40:29 30 games for devteamnp (!boring recent br=depths): 5x SGrunt, 4x Lasty, 4x wheals, 3x doy, 3x bh, 2x neil, 2x MarvinPA, 2x dpeg, Keskitalo, 78291, PleasingFungus, elliptic, rob 15:40:43 wow, neil made it to depths! 15:41:04 !lg devteamnp !boring recent br=slime s=name 15:41:04 3 games for devteamnp (!boring recent br=slime): 2x gammafunk, neil 15:41:17 !lg . depths 15:41:18 probably both speedruns 15:41:19 2. PleasingFungus the Conjurer (L22 DgEn), blasted by a spriggan air mage (the air) on Depths:3 (gammafunk_depths_water_palace) on 2014-07-03 19:00:25, with 465772 points after 85648 turns and 6:31:23. 15:41:22 o 15:41:24 mmm 15:41:38 the...conjurer? 15:41:49 what kind of shenanigens are these 15:41:53 !log . depths 15:41:54 2. PleasingFungus, XL22 DgEn, T:85648: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140703-190025.txt 15:42:06 my dgen hit things with a battleaxe 15:42:11 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:26 !hs * dgen -log 15:42:27 939. PleasingFungus, XL25 DgEn, T:78698: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140708-040237.txt 15:42:43 !hs . dgen 15:42:44 2. DrKe the Severer (L25 DgEn), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2014-07-20 22:58:35, with 1955689 points after 94501 turns and 5:31:10. 15:42:50 shoulda got 1 more rune to get dat hs 15:42:52 nice scale 15:43:01 !hs * dgen 15:43:02 939. PleasingFungus the Bewitcher (L25 DgEn), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2014-07-08 04:02:37, with 2168671 points after 78698 turns and 7:47:26. 15:43:13 heh 15:43:33 my hesu was close to getting HE but sadly we just didn't find a source of teleport that was usable 15:43:39 !lg gammafunk 15:43:40 2583. gammafunk the Summoner (L11 HESu of Sif Muna), quit the game on Lair:4 on 2015-01-31 19:23:39, with 9714 points after 7337 turns and 0:53:59. 15:43:45 !lm gammafunk 15:43:46 12076. [2015-01-31 19:19:20] gammafunk the Summoner (L10 HESu of Sif Muna) killed the ghost of sergedm the Hoplite, a mighty TrHu of Qazlal on turn 6703. (Lair:6) 15:43:54 that was different one 15:43:55 !lg gammafunk urune>=1 15:43:55 98. gammafunk the Demonologist (L22 HESu of Sif Muna), slain by a tentacled monstrosity (summoned by the player character) on Tomb:2 (tomb_2) on 2015-01-31 05:29:44, with 603537 points after 32262 turns and 8:03:33. 15:43:59 uh 15:44:04 DK is my only one because 4tharraofdagon started playing again 15:44:07 !tv gammafunk urune>=1 15:44:08 98. gammafunk, XL22 HESu, T:32262 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 15:44:17 !hs * --he 15:44:18 31893. jeanjacques the Demon Slayer (L27 DDHe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-01-13 03:43:17, with 29979149 points after 49045 turns and 9:10:57. 15:44:34 I think that's not what you want... 15:44:37 !hs * he-- 15:44:38 193532. PurpleRed the Elven Blade (L27 HESk of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-06-23 09:48:31, with 37104810 points after 39325 turns and 15:43:48. 15:44:42 no that was, in fact, what I wanted 15:44:44 %git :/ealer 15:44:44 07MarvinPA02 * 0.16-a0-3866-g94bad6d: Remove the Healer background 10(3 days ago, 8 files, 9+ 70-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94bad6d2547d 15:44:44 (...dagon it?) 15:44:46 ^ 15:44:48 oh alright 15:45:03 it was just odd after your previous queries 15:45:06 LAJATANG OF DOMINATION 15:45:19 yeah and the silly thing is *tele doesn't check ctele 15:45:28 not that it mattered, since the *tele never triggered 15:45:33 -!- Sczcya has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:59 very unusual problem, but I learned a lot about moving faster in that run 15:46:06 get better each time I get to the silver rune 15:46:30 !lm gammafunk rune=silver 15:46:30 48. [2015-01-30 20:19:38] gammafunk the Convoker (L15 HESu of Sif Muna) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 14985. (Vaults:5) 15:46:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:35 !lm gammafunk rune=silver -2 15:46:35 47/48. [2015-01-25 21:20:34] gammafunk the Convoker (L19 HuSu of Jiyva) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 46682. (Vaults:5) 15:46:36 !lm gammafunk rune=silver -3 15:46:37 46/48. [2015-01-11 04:25:26] gammafunk the Convoker (L15 HESu of Sif Muna) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 15130. (Vaults:5) 15:46:46 i don't know what the context is there but imo the silly thing is ctele 15:46:59 but that one is probably too late for 0.16 :( 15:47:02 well yeah 15:47:09 that's what you get for slacking off!!! 15:47:18 I'm gonna dock your pay for all those months you spent not playing dungeon crawl. 15:47:20 I mean I don't especially like some aspects of removing ctele, but removing it is reasonable 15:47:45 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:38 one of those things that gets removed in careful, small steps, eh? :) 15:49:51 so does this mean i'll have to stop sending him that ogg file 15:49:56 remove it all at once, leaving a giant crater 15:49:59 what ogg file 15:50:16 one aspect that was pretty cool about our scoring is that it's been possible to get the best score overall even with most recent crawl (as PurpleRed demonstrated), and this would clearly no longer be the case with ctele gone, but it shouldn't hold up improving the game, and maybe we can do soemthing with the score pages about this 15:50:47 PleasingFungus: http://cowmuffins.net/stuff/crawl/me.ogg 15:50:53 classic track 15:51:01 good ogg 15:51:05 well switching to aut scoring would also shake things up massively 15:51:09 remove control teleport, replace with suggest teleport 15:51:15 and i think that was supposed to be a thing 15:51:25 I think that's an elliptic project 15:51:27 yes it would, and there some aspects of aut-scoring that I don't like either, but that does also solve some problems 15:51:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:56 aut scoring will make bloax upset, so theres no downside as far as i'm concerned 15:52:50 bloax is a rock you can't break him joke's on you 15:53:20 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:24 !shatter Bloax 15:53:25 geekosaur gestures wildly while chanting. The dungeon rumbles around geekosaur! Bloax shudders from the earth-shattering force. 15:53:27 i wonder what the reaction to the elyvilon nerfs is gonna be 15:53:32 :p 15:53:34 Shudders, not breaks. 15:53:51 Hmm. 1/4 ends up being remarkably few blessings. Maybe because of the piety check? 15:53:57 also i won't be surprised if aut scoring will go in 15:54:04 after all, all the shoals stuff is in ;) 15:54:08 Lasty: look at the dprf messages 15:54:11 assuming you aren't already 15:54:27 geeze, am I going to have to play HOFE in 0.15 or something 15:54:28 even if that check is passed, there's only a chance of it trying to give an upgrade other than healing/curing 15:54:30 thanks devs 15:55:07 gammafunk: I think this might be a buff 15:55:08 idk 15:56:40 PleasingFungus: but it gives messages for healing/curing 15:57:16 not if they're at full health 15:57:26 oh, do you mean dprs or mprfs 15:57:30 oh 15:58:36 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:36 The build was fixed. (master - fbd3856 #1692 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/49031889 15:58:36 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 15:58:49 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3872-gcade50f: Mention when vampires are immune to poison on @ and A! (#9457) 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cade50fba51b 15:59:47 does this mean that immunity to poison can be represented as "immune" or "∞", depending on your race 16:00:24 well races other than vampires don't have a A! screen 16:00:50 o 16:00:53 I forgot A! existed 16:01:00 i'd be happy to display "immune" on % for all races though because ∞ is super ugly 16:01:09 but i settled for just not adding a new ∞ myself 16:01:26 also, marvinpa, beware ternaries 16:01:28 -!- aitap has quit [Quit: Beware, there will be no return! Still climb?] 16:01:35 your ely commit has a bug in it 16:01:38 because of ternary precedence 16:03:28 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:59 hm 16:04:01 this code is very odd 16:04:05 yred doesn't have a 6* power, right? 16:05:09 nobody does i think 16:06:32 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3873-g452e4d5: Fix a ternary 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=452e4d5975ff 16:06:34 well I mean there's stuff like weapon blessing 16:06:34 which is 6* 16:06:34 and shows up in the ^ screen 16:06:34 right, no active 6* abilities i mean 16:06:34 but yeah yred has nothing special at 6* 16:06:59 I think that function is just confusingly named 16:07:16 now it's a.....PleasingFunction.....hehe... 16:07:21 terrernary 16:08:59 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:11:08 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:14:06 -!- gressuo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:22:52 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:25:33 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:26:29 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:15 -!- Sczcya has left ##crawl-dev 17:02:03 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:52 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:42 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:18 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:57 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 17:14:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:41 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23:59 -!- Katedagreat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:28:05 03ChrisOelmueller02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.16-a0-3874-g3ec5589: Display expected poison damage on % 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ec55899f5dc 17:28:05 03ChrisOelmueller02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.16-a0-3875-gedc3a03: Explain how to exit terrain-show mode 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edc3a03524a6 17:29:07 In that forum thread, Lasty makes a good point that our approach to new monsters is a bit erratic... they get to added in heaps, then removed in bunches. Would be better if from time to time we re-assess which new mechanics work well (so could be given to more monsters elsewhere), which don't work at all, and which need improvement. I cannot really conduct such a discussion, though :( 17:29:17 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:26 Anyway, I really like how a background gets removed close to release. That's the spirit! <3 17:31:29 rip healers 17:32:50 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-3873-g452e4d5 (34) 17:34:57 I don't think I said that, dpeg :) 17:35:45 which thread? 17:37:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:05 hark, you could have said it! :) ["changes to make Crawl harder"] 17:38:20 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:30 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:39:35 i think it was crate 17:41:28 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:41:42 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:03 -!- Manslay| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:39 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:40 -!- dark_star has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:43:00 You kill Dowan! 17:43:06 Duvessa likewise turns neutral. 17:43:26 * Zannick amends his commit to fix that as well 17:44:27 -!- bencryption has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:39 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:20 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:23 MarvinPA: thx. Lasty: sorry. But anyway, it would be good to have a systematic monster review (old and new monsters). 17:52:03 all monsters become speed 5 17:52:10 or 20 17:52:24 yeah, I think it's a good idea 17:53:27 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:16 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:22 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:23 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:29 I am too weak (as a player and as a developer) to do it, but it'd be quite useful to inject some coherence in our monster zoo. 17:55:58 maybe find ways to conflate similar spells/abilities 17:56:19 I think I would be happy if battlecry became mass might other 17:56:25 like, in terms of effect 17:56:47 so that we don't have "might" and "sort of kind of like might but invisibly varies based on the original caster" as statuses 17:57:12 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:58:04 yeah, that'd be nice 17:58:40 wait 17:58:40 He is gone? 17:58:40 you don't have to retheme battlecry or even rename it 17:58:46 Lightli: rip 17:58:48 just rename mass might other 17:58:52 RIP 17:58:59 if such a thing exists 17:59:08 don't believe it does. 17:59:17 well that was easy 18:00:21 so that leaves Be, AK, and CK for Zealot backgrounds 18:00:46 all of those are cool 18:01:05 PleasingFungus: good idea 18:01:05 dpeg: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:03:56 I don't think AK works very well as a way to teach new players about abyss 18:04:13 since the AK starting abyss is totally different from regular abyss 18:04:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:04:28 doesn't it just have different item gen 18:06:55 minmay: it is not even necessary anymore to special case this, I think 18:07:34 while we're on the subject, why does D:1 have such different item gen from other levels 18:08:11 possibly scumming prevention? 18:08:29 prevention is a strong term 18:08:36 so startscumming for CPA or a +8 ring of slaying is okay, but startscumming for a spellbook isn't? 18:08:43 Btw, there is one Abyss related change that I forgot to bring up often enough: in my opinion, early banishment is okay (as it ever was for me), midgame-lategame banishment is not, rune/exit hunt is okay now (due to Abyss levels). I suggest that banishment can send players to different Abyss levels, depending on the source. 18:08:50 rip +8 slay :( 18:08:58 you can only startscum for +6 now. a brutal loss to the game 18:08:58 +7, whatever it is now 18:09:04 dpeg: that was in the 0.16 plan 18:09:11 yes, I know :) 18:09:16 wait it went all the way down to +6? didn't know that 18:09:21 I think so 18:09:22 with feature freeze upon us, I thought I mention it again 18:09:30 Feature Freeze Tuesday 18:09:45 why not feature freeze friday 18:10:05 alliteration allergy? 18:10:07 tuesday's sooner. 18:10:31 is it though 18:11:08 what do you think would be a good scale for measuring banishment strength: could depth suffice? 18:11:25 so starting abyss has: fewer items with D:1 level, no abyssal rune, no altars, no stairs 18:11:54 since it has no stairs the rune prohibition is only relevant if you somehow manage to get banished deeper in starting abyss without dying 18:11:55 minmay: normal abyss:1 doesn't have an abyssal rune either....... 18:11:57 ah 18:12:01 I was too slow 18:12:10 which makes it seem kind of ridiculous that it still exists 18:12:21 oh, it also won't get vaults 18:12:24 huh 18:12:34 crate abyss 18:13:12 I'm really having trouble figuring out why it doesn't have altars 18:13:16 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:17 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:13:32 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:13:38 oh 18:13:38 I think we can remove all these restrictions. 18:13:44 for insane people who would scum for altars, probably 18:13:49 dpeg: the only one I'm worried about is items 18:13:58 If players scum Abyss:1 to hell and back, we can react, but I'd be willing to try this out. 18:14:02 PleasingFungus: who scum for altars and want lugonu wrath at XL1? 18:14:10 minmay: see: insane people 18:14:17 (I don't think that restriction is worth keeping either) 18:14:20 we don't have to cater for loonies 18:14:22 (but I suspect that was the reasoning) 18:14:27 i feel like scumming for altars and getting lugonu wrath is its own deterrent 18:14:33 ya 18:14:54 item scumming is a legitimate concern but is it fundamentally different from the XP scumming that starting abyss currently supports? 18:15:08 what kind of cheap xp can you get in current starting abyss? 18:15:13 I think the latter attracts a lot more players 18:15:43 ah, the good old days when you could be a merfolk ak, hang out in water with a polearm, and poke a large abomination to death for instant xl7 18:16:05 people can and do still do that 18:16:12 though the merfolk case takes more attempts now that there is less water 18:17:09 AK abyss scumming is like drinking from fountains in nethack 18:17:27 sure it might be good but you'll die much more than you win from it 18:17:56 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:04 (except it's even worse than getting an early wish) 18:18:35 there's still a lot of easy to kill stuff that can show up in abyss (undead, slow abominations maybe, eye of draining or shining eye, brain worm) 18:18:43 yeah but it's also startscumming, so you can keep doing it at very little cost 18:18:52 brain worm (13w) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-29 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 6 | evil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 95 | Sp: brain feed [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: insect. 18:18:52 %??brain worm 18:19:00 worm (04w) | Spd: 6 | HD: 5 | HP: 18-37 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 12 | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 9 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 18:19:00 %??worm 18:19:00 this is scumming we're talking about so of course people will die and retry a lot 18:19:04 which eyeballs just confuse you a bunch? I've killed those in starting abyss 18:19:15 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:15 golden 18:19:15 golden eyes 18:19:17 giant brains? 18:19:18 oh 18:19:19 I considered mentioning those too 18:19:20 right 18:19:31 golden eye (08G) | Spd: 13 | HD: 6 | HP: 7-17 | AC/EV: 0/20 | lev | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 189 | Sp: confusion gaze [11!AM, 06!sil], blink [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 18:19:31 %??golden eye 18:19:34 holy 18:19:36 giant brains aren't easy kills 18:19:36 even getting a lucky iron imp kill or something can help 18:19:39 I didn't realize they were worth that much xp 18:19:41 189 xp, huh 18:19:43 dang 18:20:02 unless you consider something that can confuse you and summon a bunch of shadow creatures (which will kill you dead) an easy kill 18:20:09 hrm, does slouch damage depend on invocations skill? 18:20:10 damn, I've been sitting on the monster & unique xp reform, too 18:20:13 so yeah...this seems like it dwarfs any issue with item scumming 18:20:15 Bloax: I was thinking of golden eyes 18:20:59 I think that if starting abyss item scumming turns out to be a problem, it'll be because of all the restrictions on which items can generate on D:1 18:21:18 yeah, item scumming in starting abyss isn't worth much 18:21:49 G-Flex: we're talking about removing those special cases for starting abyss though, so the items and their quality would be normal for abyss instead of the same as D:1 18:21:57 oh 18:22:08 and after that change you will see more people scumming starting abyss for items 18:23:17 this would actually differ significantly from D:1 scumming because a lot of items will not appear on D:1 (barring vault shenanigans): artefacts, wands, rods, some scrolls/potions, etc. 18:24:24 I would personally like if D:1 lost those restrictions (the scroll/potion depth restrictions are especially WTF now that immolation doesn't kill you), even if it would lead to more startscumming - crawl already lets players startscum for pearl dragon armour, after all 18:24:33 and nobody cares 18:25:00 immolation certainly *can* kill you 18:25:08 (it probably won't and is usually avoidable) 18:25:37 so can tele, or noise 18:26:02 agree with minmay 18:26:09 let's ease on the restrictions for 0.16 18:26:20 a freer floor market 18:26:27 currently vulnerability, acquirement, summoning, silence, brand weapon, torment, holy word can't generate at depth lower than 4 18:26:32 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 18:26:32 if we think there is too much abuse, we can come up with more refined restriction later 18:27:20 I don't understand why any of these exist except acquirement and summoning, and with summoning it's only because monsters use them 18:27:33 can holy word kill the player, if they're undead 18:27:40 no 18:27:40 I think no? 18:27:45 it works like torment on the reader 18:27:50 ok, that's what I thought 18:28:34 if you allow wands/rods it definitely makes no sense to keep disallowing summoning 18:28:58 if, if, if.... 18:29:03 yes 18:29:25 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 18:30:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:47 potion of poison and berserk rage are also restricted (berserk rage, again, because monsters use it...if only there were another way to solve the problem of monsters picking up items off the ground and using them...) 18:30:56 -!- spacet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:03 also it's super gross that some potions/scrolls are allowed to generate in stacks and others aren't 18:31:40 if you pick up a stack of potions then you can inscribe it with {not benemut, experience, or restore abilities} 18:32:39 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:32:59 restab doesn't spawn in stacks?! 18:35:10 the only one of those that shouldn't spawn in stacks is experience 18:35:28 Lasty: did I fucking stutter 18:35:36 :p 18:35:55 I was expressing surprise. 18:36:49 why shouldn't experience spawn in stacks? 18:36:52 Next time I'll give it closed captions for you. "Fire damage is resisted by AC +3?!? also unable to generate in stacks: brand weapon, acquirement, torment, holy word, silence 18:38:21 scroll of silence: more valuable than scrolls of blinking, apparently 18:39:07 3x scroll of enchant armor stack is pretty powerful 18:39:20 also another cool thing about removing depth restrictions is that we get D:1 wand of lightning kobolds again 18:39:47 so you can point and say "see crawl isn't getting easier" next time someone complains about removing weight 18:41:21 d:1 yaktaur captains again? 18:41:43 d:1 lightning kobold is probably more likely to kill someone than d:1 yaktaur captain 18:42:03 since not even the worst players will try to fight the yaktaur captain 18:42:16 d:1 centaur warrior though? 18:42:21 not d:1 centaur warrior 18:42:29 unless you're a spriggan 18:42:36 (I, er, did not get a choice in the matter) 18:42:37 i hate centaur warriors 18:42:48 (or a centaur? I forget whether centaurs are faster than centaurs) 18:42:55 centaurs are faster than centaurs 18:42:58 heh 18:43:09 Zermako will fight the d1 yaktaur captain 18:43:14 monster centaurs are speed 15 18:43:16 turned a corner and it put a couple bolts through me. this was a very old crawl... 18:43:27 !calc 1.0/0.7 18:43:28 1.43 18:43:34 so monster is slightly faster 18:43:52 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:30 i imagine #9462 might be easier to figure out if the reporter had said where the bug happened :| 18:47:30 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:47:33 !messages 18:47:33 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (23h 28m 1s ago): Tuesday is fine by me. 18:50:16 yeah, that dump is pretty useless 18:51:55 -!- Tungsten has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 18:52:42 DrKe: wow, so monster centaurs' speed is like the player's rounded up, and monster spriggans' is like the player's rounded down 18:52:49 DrKe: ...not that I'm suggesting monster spriggans get their speed increase 18:52:50 d 19:00:39 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:07:05 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:43 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:12:41 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:54 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 19:20:16 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:22:07 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:22:26 doc for always_show_exclusions should probably mention it has no interaction with tiles 19:27:32 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:28:47 MarvinPA: i think there's some stuff in hiscores.cc with OLD_JOBs you have to do when removing backgrounds? i'm not sure, it always seemed fishy to me 19:31:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:00 -!- Catsolot has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:22 -!- Mottikins_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:24 specifically, the species enums are apparently preserved for the high score viewer, but the highscore viewer parses stuff using str_to_species, which doesn't understand the old enums 19:35:18 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:30 -!- _wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:10 -!- neunon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:58 -!- Chousuke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:01 -!- Grunt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:25 -!- Grunt has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:40:27 -!- Grunt_ is now known as Grunt 19:42:00 You hear a pained grunt. 19:42:01 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:34 -!- ebering_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:47 -!- Menche has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:42:51 -!- QuailChaser is now known as Menche 19:43:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:12 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:12 -!- wmbt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:13 -!- Rotatell has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:14 -!- wh1te has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:14 -!- Chousuke has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:14 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:15 -!- kryft has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:15 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 -!- tupper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 -!- chequers has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:17 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:17 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:17 -!- Monkaria has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- jark has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- hicscu has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- WildSam has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Moanerette has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Guest74997 has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- hong has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Lightli has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- fearitself has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Textmode has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:17 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 19:43:19 -!- neunon_ is now known as neunon 19:43:21 rip freenode 19:43:26 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 19:43:29 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:30 what did you do!!!!!!!! 19:43:30 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 19:43:30 hey a sna1k 19:43:36 -!- dididi has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:36 -!- checkers_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:48 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:55 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:03 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:25 Grunt: you!!! 19:45:28 !lg . hesu br=lair 19:45:29 31. gammafunk the Summoner (L9 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by Fannar (Ozocubu's Refrigeration) on Lair:3 on 2015-01-31 23:25:55, with 2416 points after 4461 turns and 0:31:30. 19:45:36 Do you realize how good that elf was 19:45:52 silly fannar blinking! 19:45:52 Fannar clearly the better elf 19:46:00 hey, it ~*~*~synergises~*~*~ 19:46:51 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:52 -!- hicscu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:48:06 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:07 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:33 -!- Textmode has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:49:15 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:37 -!- Lasty1 has left ##crawl-dev 19:49:42 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:21 hm, #9408 has me stumped 19:50:23 -!- droogie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:50:30 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3876-ge8301af: Add some missing handling for He hiscores (wheals) 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8301af37519 19:50:30 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-3877-g36e30bb: Improve documentation of always_show_exclusions (wheals) 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=36e30bb29f5b 19:50:55 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:12 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:51:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:21 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:52:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:15 it was my fault for allowing him to sneak in a bolt of cold 19:52:16 but instead of dying when he should have, he blinked 19:52:16 that was completely uncalled for 19:52:16 -!- DrKe has quit [] 19:52:16 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:40 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:10 <|amethyst> hm 19:57:19 <|amethyst> %git b24369f1 19:57:19 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3861-gb24369f: Don't trim artefact names in webtiles 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24369f1f947 19:58:35 <|amethyst> not sure whether that should be based on control from webtiles, or not exist because of ttyrecs and console watchers 19:59:37 there is a way to check whether it's in tiles at run-time iirc 19:59:48 <|amethyst> yes 19:59:49 not sure about webtiles 20:00:07 oh, i see what you mean now 20:00:41 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-3878-gf763bb7: Remove some stealth change messages under Sac Stealth (moocowpong) 10(27 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f763bb7966a1 20:00:41 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-3879-g1f733d2: Fix up boots of flying perma-flying status a bit 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f733d267d2f 20:03:56 -!- Milski has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:37 Spellcasting as a skill feels more and more messy to me the more time goes on. It gives off a really weird impression to new players. 20:08:54 <|amethyst> what impression is that? 20:10:39 Milski: I guess not unlike Fighting or Invocations... these more abstract skills may be confusing than Axes or Fire. Does not mean they're bad, though. 20:11:37 <|amethyst> Fighting's description probably should be reordered 20:12:10 <|amethyst> it currently mentions the accuracy and damage bonuses first, but I get the impression the HP is more important 20:12:36 it gives as much accuracy as weapon skill and nearly as much damage 20:12:43 <|amethyst> yes 20:12:45 what do weapon skills mention first? 20:12:49 <|amethyst> and weapon skill mentions those after the speed 20:13:15 <|amethyst> Being skilled with Long Blades will allow you to attack more quickly with all 20:13:18 <|amethyst> weapons of this type, as well as increasing your accuracy and damage with them. 20:13:21 <|amethyst> vs 20:13:25 <|amethyst> Fighting skill increases your accuracy and damage in hand-to-hand combat, and 20:13:28 <|amethyst> also increases your maximum health. 20:13:38 <|amethyst> the latter makes the MHP thing sound like an afterthought 20:13:43 also, it would be nice if HP/MP gain from fighting/spellcasting/evocations/invocations was independent from XL 20:14:02 The impression I see with spellcasting is that it's somehow actually important to spellcasting. 20:14:13 |amethyst: well, unlike delay in old versions, max HP is pretty visible; and I frequently see people (some of them devs) underestimating the effect of accuracy/damage from fighting skill 20:14:27 <|amethyst> Being skilled in Spellcasting slightly increases the success rate and spell 20:14:27 <|amethyst> power of all spells, along with increasing your magical reserves and reducing 20:14:30 <|amethyst> the effects of spell hunger. 20:14:33 <|amethyst> Training Spellcasting also gives you more spell slots to spend on new spells. 20:14:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:14:57 <|amethyst> I guess the order could change, but it does say "slightly" 20:15:13 -!- jark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:15 The description is fine, but the most common mistake I see people correcting (after not running away) is overtraining spellcasting. 20:15:43 <|amethyst> not moving towards monsters? 20:15:59 <|amethyst> or spreading skills too thin early game? 20:15:59 whichever negative is correct, yes 20:16:12 The mistake I see is spreading skills thin by overemphasizing spellcasting, yes. 20:16:37 It also doesn't really do any of the things in the description that well; the spellcasting success is slight, the MP gain is minimal after the initial investment because stepdown and XL dependence, and spell hunger doesn't matter. 20:16:58 <|amethyst> Milski: so you're saying it doesn't do anything? 20:17:30 <|amethyst> other than giving you slots 20:17:33 I'm saying it doesn't do a whole lot despite (apparently) seeming like an important skill, which also makes the fact every non-elf race has a non-positive aptitude for it confusing 20:17:49 <|amethyst> I guess we could remove it 20:18:10 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:22 <|amethyst> or only let you train it up to (sum of your other magic skills)/3 or so 20:18:47 <|amethyst> I'm not really convinced it's that useless though 20:18:48 |amethyst: that would make it impossible for early-game characters to get as much spellcasting as they should 20:19:14 and would stay a pretty big restriction for a while after that 20:19:26 what about <=highest magic skill 20:19:48 there are plenty of situations where you want spellcasting to be your highest magic skill 20:19:59 <|amethyst> That's not what milski is claiming 20:20:04 I'd prefer removal and transferring the duty over to a weird complicated system, but I'm more just concerned it feels like a messy noob trap (I tend to give new players very little credit, though) 20:20:13 that's because milski is blatantly and obviously wrong to anyone who knows what spellcasting skill actually does 20:20:20 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:24 <|amethyst> I just listed everything it does 20:20:36 it... gives you spell levels? 20:20:39 <|amethyst> he said every single point was unimportant, except for spell slots 20:20:42 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:44 I was always a bit annoyed that Spellcasting does so many things (and hence has so much overlap with other mechanics) but how can you say it is useless? 20:20:45 yes, and he's wrong 20:21:04 I haven't said it's useless. 20:21:11 I think the question of "when/which skill to train and how far" is interesting. We should strengthen that, not remove it. 20:21:13 I've said each individual benefit doesn't do a whole lot despite sounding more important than it is 20:21:27 which is why I said it feels more messy as time goes on, not useless 20:21:48 I don't think the spell success, slots, or MP sound more important than they are 20:22:16 Spell hunger seems important, except hunger rarely is. MP is super important, but it's XL dependent and stepdowned heavily. Spell success sounds important, but it has a very minimal effect on that. Spell slots are actually pretty important if you find enough spells. 20:22:17 spell hunger certainly sounds more important than it is to a lot of players, but that's not spellcasting skill's fault... 20:22:34 ... 20:22:36 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:38 MP is not stepped down 20:22:59 MP is super important but, but it being xl-dependent and stepdowned means that mp from spellcasting isn't important? 20:23:04 that doesn't seem terribly logical 20:23:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23:16 <|amethyst> perhaps these are DE 20:23:31 MP is super important, but spellcasting very rapidly stops giving you a lot of MP, compared to just levelling with a few ranks 20:24:00 and I'm pretty sure MP is stepped down in some fashion since you can go from 5-10 mana from level 1 to 2, and yet the cap is 50 and isn't trivial to reach 20:24:02 I don't think very rapidly is true 20:24:19 I certainly level more than a few ranks on characters that care about spells 20:24:20 oh, looks like it is stepped down sort of, yeah 20:24:25 it is, yes 20:24:37 this stepdown call also looks like it's really old 20:25:20 If what I remember is right, at 30 MP it takes like 50 formula-MP to gain 10 real MP 20:25:31 (this also makes the XL dependence even more baffling) 20:25:34 which is a 20% rate after like XL 10 or so? 20:25:48 i dont see how getting spellcasting to get spells castable would be the logical route for new players to take though 20:25:55 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:25:55 like spell schools are clearly there for a reason 20:25:56 <|amethyst> Milski: what do you mean "after XL 10"? 20:26:09 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:09 anyway I disagree that MP is important 20:26:11 You'd probably have ~30 MP after XL 10 on an actual caster 20:26:23 actual caster meaning casting background that didn't hybridize already 20:26:33 maybe a little less depending on race and how heavily you did invest in spellcasting 20:26:46 what 20:26:48 again, getting spellcasting to get mp 20:27:01 im not convinced that is the most logical thing either 20:27:09 <|amethyst> a level 10 Tengu with 2 spellcasting gets 18 mp 20:27:19 <|amethyst> a level 27 tengu with 2 spellcasting gets 31 mp 20:28:02 <|amethyst> with 10 spellcasting, that's 29 and 30 respectively 20:28:09 <|amethyst> err, 29 and 40 20:28:17 so what do you all think of invocations/evocations MP, then 20:28:43 <|amethyst> at 20 spellcasting, 36 and 47 20:28:56 spellcasting gives you better gains than invo and evo do, but it's highest skill not cumulative 20:28:57 DrKe: i mean i see where you're coming from but i think it's pretty intuitive for the spellcasting skill to make you better at casting spells, at least 20:29:01 I don't think anybody generally takes those to get MP, and I'm not really certain why it does that 20:29:05 i guess that could be stated more quickly 20:29:08 why evo even gives MP, I mean 20:29:27 evocations giving MP is slightly more sane now that lantern of shadows drains it 20:29:27 for Nemelex 20:29:29 <|amethyst> so that nemelex worshippers can get MP to use abilities, mainly 20:29:42 also, back when rods used your own MP 20:29:55 Yeah, I forgot about that quirk. Still, invo and evo tend to be far less likely to drain your whole MP pool 20:29:58 <|amethyst> nemelex could just use Invo, though, and also let you use Invo to power decks 20:30:04 while casting blasty magic can 20:30:12 haha I was considering complaining about invocations skill 20:30:12 well that's why splcast gives more than those do 20:30:21 since like, there are a bunch of invocations in the game 20:30:30 and only like half of gods' invocations actually use the skill called invocations 20:30:37 i like how evo gives it so ash characters can be more automatically awesome 20:30:40 with very little investment 20:30:57 <|amethyst> ? 20:31:00 you have extreme Ash bias!!! 20:31:22 <|amethyst> does ash increase your evo more than your spc? 20:31:23 a significant portion of crawl has Ash bias 20:31:29 he doesn't increase spc 20:31:32 <|amethyst> ah 20:31:33 unless you curse a weird staff 20:31:36 does ash even increase --- yeah 20:31:40 but he increases evo automatically with cursed rings 20:31:44 which is something you'll do anyway 20:32:08 for the spell school levels 20:32:33 so basically you are guaranteed to be great at evo worshipping ash without actually having to limit yourself 20:32:39 as a side bonus 20:32:58 and if you curse a staff it stacks iirc 20:33:07 well in current versions literally every character gets tons of evo skill anyway 20:33:17 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:24 yeah, so you get even more 20:33:31 or can safely not invest as much 20:34:24 <|amethyst> !lg * recent won / fifteenskills~~evoca 20:34:25 2977/8040 games for * (recent won): N=2977/8040 (37.03%) 20:34:29 <|amethyst> !lg * recent won / fifteenskills~~spellc 20:34:30 2679/8040 games for * (recent won): N=2679/8040 (33.32%) 20:34:36 <|amethyst> !lg * recent won / fifteenskills~~fighting 20:34:37 7471/8040 games for * (recent won): N=7471/8040 (92.92%) 20:34:43 <|amethyst> !lg * recent won / fifteenskills~~conjur 20:34:45 1341/8040 games for * (recent won): N=1341/8040 (16.68%) 20:34:54 I should say literally every optimally played character :P 20:35:26 <|amethyst> Back to the overtraining spc thing, I think a much bigger issue is automatic skill training 20:35:35 burn it! 20:35:54 <|amethyst> I don't want to get rid of it, and am not sure I'd even want to make it non-default 20:36:20 how does auto skill training work in regards to turning skills off and on 20:36:25 since you can still do that with autotraining enabled 20:36:34 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 20:36:35 I don't really think anything is wrong w/ Spellcasting, aside from the fact that mp gains do get really small relatively quickly. 20:36:47 i mean what effect does that actually have on what gets trained 20:36:57 <|amethyst> DrKe: if it's turned off it doesn't get trained 20:37:07 <|amethyst> DrKe: if it's focused it gets double the weight it otherwise would 20:37:15 oh that's kinda cool i guess 20:37:15 <|amethyst> (still based on exercise) 20:37:22 yeah i don't mind spellcasting 20:37:37 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:42 <|amethyst> and probably spc gets less exercise than spell schools from casting 20:37:45 !log autodefe 20:37:45 1. autodefe, XL27 DEFE, T:98094: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/autodefe/morgue-autodefe-20130216-051653.txt 20:37:55 <|amethyst> but I'm not sure about that, not having played auto skills in a long time 20:38:17 okay, yeah, it trains spellcasting a bit fast 20:38:43 I don't know why autotrain exists tbh 20:38:46 well with DE's ridiculous apt a spellcasting focus is not really going to hurt you much 20:38:46 Lasty: why isn't the 50 cap gone yet 20:38:52 |amethyst: I think it is really important to keep auto skilling as default. I can explain why, but not now (too late again). Of course, autoskilling can be improved, but it is not as bad as some people claim. 20:39:04 Milski: it exists so that new players don't use manual training 20:39:11 exactly! 20:39:25 i don't think that most characters people start playing crawl with are going to be hurt much by autoskilling 20:39:27 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:28 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, no, I agree 20:39:30 since crazy apts give you a lot of leeway 20:39:31 I'm sure there are reasons since it seems like an obvious removal option, but one of the other common bits of advice I see on YASD's is to stop autoskilling. 20:39:44 minmay: I removed it W as a trial 20:39:57 I guess it's obvious that it prevents new players from screwing up manual skilling, until they realize that autoskill is also screwing them. Which is probably a good thing overall 20:40:02 but I think I didn't remove some stepdowns because it's still a bit lame 20:40:15 autoskill would screw them less than leaving manual skill on and not touching it at all, i assume 20:40:20 i don't know that for a fact 20:40:26 but im assuming it would be better 20:40:29 <|amethyst> dpeg: I was thinking something like making it weight more quadratically early on, easing down to linear 20:40:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:44 <|amethyst> dpeg: so early it would focus more on one skill, later spreading out 20:40:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: if you don't toggle anything 20:40:54 probably the biggest problem is you have too many skills on so you are too spread out early on 20:40:56 leading to slower gains 20:41:08 but again, good apts ameliorate that some 20:41:17 if youre playing a typical beginner combo 20:41:29 |amethyst: hm, cannot comment :) But for straightforward builds, autoskilling is good enough even to win. I haven't tried using it on characters that seriously change gears midgame, not sure how good/badly autoskilling copes with that. 20:41:29 I guess my problem with spellcasting is just that almost every benefit it claims to give (but spellcasting levels) very rapidly becomes minor and it doesn't communicate it all that well. It also might have a weird thing where it makes players think not-elves are supposed to be bad casters 20:41:58 <|amethyst> dpeg: I wonder if anyone victory dances autoskilling instead of just switching to manual? 20:42:00 well do you think that DE spellcasting apt doesn't help them a great deal 20:42:03 because imo it does 20:42:10 Milski: I don't think it does that. If you select Troll, then EE is recommended. 20:42:22 Wz too 20:42:22 fr randomskill option 20:42:43 -!- octotoad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:46 <|amethyst> Milski: with non-elves the spc is more expensive, but also more important because they don't get the massive racial MP 20:42:51 |amethyst: huh, no. Why? Some players win auto-skilling-only, but of course it's perfectly to use autoskilling and turn off some skills or focus. It is not either or. 20:43:11 <|amethyst> dpeg: I mean, if I have autoskilling on and want to train two things approximately equally 20:43:15 I have, in fact, seen people dance to manipulate autoskilling 20:43:27 <|amethyst> dpeg: I might victory dance whichever has less exercise currently 20:43:27 DE spellcasting app does help them, because that (and conjurations) gives you enough spellcasting to get 4th level spells both castable and not-starving-you at level 4 20:43:28 haha, funny 20:43:32 <|amethyst> dpeg: to keep them close to 50% 20:43:42 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:47 when most races can manage maybe one of those things 20:43:49 Milski: uh, how does the spell success/power become minor any faster than the spell success/power from other spell skills? 20:43:56 -!- ldierk has quit [Changing host] 20:43:56 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:11 well it mainly helps them also in the way that the apt is so high that the spellpower increase is more noticable 20:44:12 Spellcasting skill gives you one sixth the benefit of other skills? 20:44:16 especially for spells that use multiple schools 20:44:22 its 1/4, i believe 20:44:29 <|amethyst> dpeg: of course *I* wouldn't do that, I'd just switch to manual... but someone who would switch to manual probably usually switches to manual 20:44:32 Milski: okay, I see the problem now, you literally *don't know what the skill does* 20:44:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: maybe not 20:44:49 One half the benefit if it's 2-school I guess. Past like getting level 3s castable regardless of school, the exponential spellpower needed to cast spells makes the spellcasting contribution minimal 20:44:52 DrKe: it's not 1/4 either, it depends on how many schools the spell has 20:45:06 yeah im saying it's 1/4 compared to a single school 20:45:08 Spellcasting gives .33 weight, while spell schools give 2xskill weight. 20:45:09 I guess Keskitalo's experiments with real newbies would be very helpful here. 20:45:09 or average of schools 20:45:36 DrKe: IT'S NOT 1/4 COMPARED TO A SINGLE SCHOOL UNLESS YOU ARE ONLY LOOKING AT SPELLS THAT ARE ONLY OF THAT SKILL 20:45:44 i know 20:45:46 OMG 20:45:49 calm down 20:45:53 You're getting really hostile for some reason. Do you want to think I'm retarded so you can argue against me better? 20:45:55 DrKe: then why do you keep saying it is??? 20:45:57 <|amethyst> Milski: spellcasting gives 1/2 weight, skills give 2/#schools weight 20:46:02 its more than 1/4 if a spell uses multiple schools 20:46:05 That's... seriously terrible. You might actually be a bad person, minmay 20:46:14 Milski: no, but I do think you don't understand what spellcasting skill does, because you just said that spellcasting skill does something that is does not do 20:46:21 it* 20:46:30 forum throws a party just like this one, too :) 20:46:35 <|amethyst> ??spell power 20:46:36 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT/10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 20:46:38 i mean was i really being that unclear 20:46:55 I mistyped the fraction, I'm sorry? 1/4th or 1/2 the benefit of spell skill 20:47:06 Does a typo justify calling me stupid and shouting in allcaps? 20:47:09 well he was yelling at me 20:47:15 not you to be fair 20:47:18 <|amethyst> Milski: or 2/3 for a three-school spell 20:47:21 And so you don't allcaps again, yes, there's also 3-spell schools 20:47:35 Milski: think of it this way: for spell success and power purposes, all magic skill levels are effectively increased by 1/4 the level of spellcasting skill 20:47:47 <|amethyst> it's like crosstraining 20:47:49 why do you get to use 1/4 and i can't 20:47:50 now consider the fact that each level of a skill costs significantly more than the previous one 20:48:01 I understand how math works, dude... 20:48:02 DrKe: because you applied your 1/4 to the wrong thing 20:48:08 <|amethyst> DrKe: because he said 'all skills' and took you to mean 'a single skill' 20:48:10 I'm not ELI5ing stepdowns to you even though you didn't know they existed 20:48:12 stop being a dick 20:49:37 Milski: so how does the spell success/power from spellcasting skill become minor any faster than the spell success/power from other spell skills? 20:49:40 Gotta sleep... if anyone comments on the Gozag wrath proposal, I'll be grateful! And for suggestions how to scale banisment power (typical ideas: depth, player xp, monster HD). 20:49:51 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: cheers] 20:50:12 banishment should just send you to abyss:5 every time, it'd be like the current situation but faster 20:50:47 <|amethyst> !lm * recent abyss.exit s=place 20:50:48 31606 milestones for * (recent abyss.exit): 19846x Abyss:1, 5224x Abyss:3, 3386x Abyss:2, 1857x Abyss:4, 1293x Abyss:5 20:50:56 <|amethyst> !lm * recent !ak abyss.exit s=place 20:50:57 29913 milestones for * (recent !ak abyss.exit): 18518x Abyss:1, 5046x Abyss:3, 3280x Abyss:2, 1804x Abyss:4, 1265x Abyss:5 20:51:10 <|amethyst> !lg * recent !ak abyss s=place 20:51:11 7398 games for * (recent !ak abyss): 6040x Abyss:1, 633x Abyss:2, 426x Abyss:3, 170x Abyss:4, 129x Abyss:5 20:51:35 |amethyst: as in, abyss:5 is like abyss:1 but faster 20:51:37 i go downstairs personally 20:51:42 to get out 20:51:46 <|amethyst> I do too 20:51:49 It becomes minor faster because in any situation you are trying to get a certain spell online, it will almost always be better to simply train that skill, even with exponential levels (exceptions may apply to multischool, high level spells). 20:52:46 Milski: and how is that "becoming minor faster" instead of being minor in the first place? 20:52:57 That's mostly due to the fact many races have some really good spell schools and almost universally have poor spellcasting aptitude, though. DE are the obvious exception, and even then I wouldn't see training spellcasting as a way to get anything but 7+s up faster 20:53:11 <|amethyst> keep in mind that skill cost isn't linear 20:53:52 I'm aware. 20:53:55 its entirely possible to undertrain spellcasting 20:54:01 if you let it get too low 20:54:07 because lower skills are much easier to raise 20:54:11 <|amethyst> if you're at spc 5, skill 15 (for a single-school spell), you could train the skill by 1 level, or spc by 3 levels 20:55:03 !apt spellcasting 20:55:03 Splcast: DE: 3!, Sp: 2, : 1, Og: 1, HE: 1, Fo: 0, VS: 0, Gr: -1, Op: -1, Na: -1, Ds: -1, Dr: -1, Hu: -1, Fe: -1, Vp: -1, Mu: -1, Mf: -1, Ko: -1, Te: -1, Gh: -2, Dg: -2, DD: -2, Ha: -3, Ce: -3, HO: -3, Mi: -4, Tr: -5* 20:55:33 you can view -1 as the average, like how 1 is the average for stealth/invo/evo 20:55:54 they used to be 0 but it was changed for being misleading in some version 20:56:19 i think because they weren't actually 0 20:56:25 in terms of how much investment they took 20:56:32 but i wasn't around for that 20:57:04 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:55 I think it all combines to where at ~10-12 spellcasting, you reach the point where school investment is going to be better unless you're training for 9ths, you are reasonably secure in hunger costs, and you are at the part where the stepdown function is very steep on mana benefits 20:58:12 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:27 That's also the point where skill EXP stops being an exponential and just goes up linearly in cost per level, unless that was changed 20:58:37 that was changed like 6 versions ago 20:58:58 and that point was level 14 to 15 20:59:09 So while spellcasting can do things at that point (especially if you want to cast a broad variety of schools), it gets way less useful at a very low level compared to most skills 20:59:09 so every character would just end up with tons of skills sitting at 14 20:59:34 Milski: see, I would have said that about *all* spell skills 20:59:46 you can cast a lot of stuff at 12 skill, yeah 20:59:51 except probably not the "most skills" part 20:59:57 because spell skills are really close to being most skills :P 21:00:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:50 <|amethyst> Anyway, this seems to be more of a strategy discussion rather than a design one 21:01:14 !source skill_exp_needed 21:01:14 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/skills.cc;hb=HEAD#l1546 21:01:16 well, when a design complaint comes from someone's bad strategy, it's hard for the discussion to go anywhere else 21:01:45 -!- hong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:05:01 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:04 To bring this back to a game discussion, let's talk about the formula for mp. If we remove the stepdown and say that > 50 mp might be just fine for high investments in spellcasting / MP aptitude, what does a good mp formula look like? Maybe the hp formula / 3? 21:05:14 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:46 which HP formula? the fighting one? 21:06:13 I still think the fighting one should be completely independent of XL 21:06:33 yeah, the fighting one 21:06:59 well, let's talk about an mp formula w/o XL 21:07:25 -!- Milski has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:18 2 mp/skill, 1 mp/XL gets to 81 mp for a human w/ 27 skill/xl, 36 for 12 skill/xl, and 9 mp for xl1 HuWz 21:08:25 seems like too much 21:08:43 I was going to suggest spellcasting*1 for the spellcasting MP formula 21:09:00 that gives an XL 27 human with 27 spellcasting exactly 50 MP 21:09:12 er, with the current formula from XL 21:09:15 which I guess you would replace as well... 21:10:16 1 MP per XL and 1 MP per spellcasting level is still pretty close to the current situation though isn't it? HuFE would still start with 3 MP 21:10:35 so that's the same 21:10:45 HuWz would still start with 4 MP 21:10:54 HuFi would still start with 1 MP 21:10:55 etc 21:11:24 seems reasonableish. 12/12 would get you 24 mp. 21:11:30 lower than now 21:11:32 DEWz would still get 6 if it rounded to nearest the "right" way 21:12:03 I guess reducing the MP of "midgame" characters by that much would be annoying, yeah 21:12:31 hmm 21:12:37 also it really doesn't make sense to do this while the fighting HP formula still depends on XL 21:17:04 Lasty: clearly the solution is to use spellcasting level+XL for mp total, then restore vehumet's mp cost reduction so that midgame chars still get the same number of casts 21:17:21 see, my formula is perfect 21:17:23 ha 21:17:48 Well, if you listen to tavern, it does make sense to balance around all casters using Veh :p 21:19:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:20:16 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:28 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:56 -!- eternal_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:24:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:11 should it be linear? it makes sense but you won't be able to preserve something close to current MP amounts for all levels 21:25:34 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:37 yeah... 21:25:52 <|amethyst> If you want something close to the current numbers, why change it? 21:26:03 I suppose the skill could be linear and tha gains per xl not. 21:26:15 |amethyst: Lasty was talking about removing the stepdown 21:26:17 |amethyst: if we want them to be identical, yeah 21:27:42 Lasty: HP gain from XL is linear, do you want to change that as well? seems like it would be really weird for HP/MP to be shaped differently 21:29:02 Yeah, I agree w/ that. Ideally hp/mp gains by xl and by skill would be similar 21:29:03 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:30:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:31:23 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:24 so they -can- follow 21:31:54 wrong channel 21:33:03 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:28 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:47 Lasty: well then you're not going to get much closer than my super awesome balanced formula, you'll have a big difference at either low, middling, or high levels; mine happens to pick middling 21:36:10 Yeah. 21:36:14 <|amethyst> greensnark: what do you think of moving scoring page generation to Sequell? 21:36:37 Though I wouldn't mind increasing things slightly -- maybe 1.2 or 1.3 per level . . . 21:37:09 <|amethyst> greensnark: or at least having some way for CAO scoring to pull the info it needs from sequell, rather than having to do the same fetch milestones, load into db, etc stuff that Sequell already does 21:37:12 having more MP at 27/27 is fine IMO, and having slightly more for book starts isn't a huge balance issue I don't think 21:37:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:24 <|amethyst> greensnark: I have a feeling sequell is much more robust at that whole process 21:38:26 1.2 or 1.3 per spellcasting level, experience level, or both? 21:40:06 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:52 for what it's worth, you'd need (XL+spellcasting)*1.5 to get the current MP at XL5+SL5 through XL8+SL8 21:40:57 <|amethyst> greensnark: (and has a better-optimised DB) 21:41:24 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3880-g9314259: Trim artefact names in console-controlled webtiles builds. 10(67 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9314259aed21 21:41:46 which gives 1.65 times the current MP at XL27+SL27 21:41:54 approximately 21:42:31 is the CAO scoring page db significantly different from the sequell DB? I know elliptic or greensnark said the tourney db was set up pretty differently 21:42:55 not sure how similar the CAO pages are to the tourney db 21:43:01 <|amethyst> johnstein: I think it's probably pretty similar, but I'm sure sequell's db has probably evolved since they split 21:43:23 obviously we just need a single master DB 21:43:38 <|amethyst> yeah, sequell 21:43:48 |amethyst: That's about the HUD display? I quite liked the shortened name as a tiles player. 21:43:55 <|amethyst> Medar: in webtiles? 21:44:00 yep 21:44:08 Yeah. Maybe that's just me though. 21:44:32 It going to multiple lines is ugly, and not really relevant information that needs to be constantly on screen 21:44:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:45:11 <|amethyst> Medar: perhaps, but it's PF you should talk to :) 21:45:21 Ah, ok. 21:45:36 <|amethyst> Medar: I just made his thing not affect online console (which is a webtiles build everywhere but CDO) 21:45:48 Right, I see. 21:45:50 <|amethyst> %git b24369 21:45:50 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3861-gb24369f: Don't trim artefact names in webtiles 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24369f1f947 21:47:36 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:18 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 21:53:15 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:09 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:56:52 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:52 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:11 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:22 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:00 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:05:40 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:38 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:54 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:26 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:31 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:54 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:16:51 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:34 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:56 -!- dididi has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:29:53 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:08 -!- sufmina has quit [] 22:43:59 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:58 -!- gammafun1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:58 -!- gammafunk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:52 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54:39 -!- clouded_ has quit [] 22:55:27 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:30 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:16 <|amethyst> !learn add nfm crawl TODO: write implementable for in-game options UI (with togglable persistance: session (crawl.setopt)/game (chk_lua_save)/player (c_persist)) 22:59:17 nfm[5/5]: crawl TODO: write implementable for in-game options UI (with togglable persistance: session (crawl.setopt)/game (chk_lua_save)/player (c_persist)) 23:01:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:09 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:07:01 -!- olourkin has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 23:15:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:16:07 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:58 -!- checkers_ is now known as checkers 23:21:04 -!- checkers is now known as chequers 23:22:13 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:13 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-3880-g9314259 (34) 23:29:02 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:30:57 -!- octotoad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:34:27 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:38:55 -!- jark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:40:56 -!- markgo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:52:28 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 23:55:18 |amethyst: hrm, I'd not mind making a webtiles ui for options maybe 23:55:27 doing that for Tiles sounds maybe not so fun 23:56:45 I guess you'd have to make it save to rc, which presents some problems 23:56:50 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:20 <|amethyst> gammafun1: elliptic's c_persist would let you avoid that 23:58:55 yeah, then I suppose we'd have to make this file downloadable for players 23:58:56 <|amethyst> gammafun1: you'd just need one line in the rc (or the default rc) to load options from, say, c_persist.options 23:59:35 <|amethyst> gammafun1: it goes to name.rc.persist in the same dir as the rc 23:59:52 <|amethyst> so it should be automatically available on any server that makes rcs available