00:05:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:25 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:42 I am strongly opposed to re-adding the horrible clunky directional axe cleaving thing 00:09:49 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3425-gb4a0a08 (34) 00:10:03 if we need to nerf axes, there are plenty of tools for that, not least of which is decreasing cleave damage 00:10:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:18 the cleaving thing is just bad design 00:10:41 *the "walls sometime blocking cleaving" thing 00:11:22 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:56 -!- Vherid_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:13:00 !learn edit multi_holiness s|$Step 1: convert MH to a bitfield http://sprunge.us/fNIa/ 00:13:00 Use: !learn edit multi_holiness[NUM] s/// 00:13:18 !learn edit multi_holiness s|$|Step 1: convert MH to a bitfield http://sprunge.us/fNIa/ 00:13:19 Use: !learn edit multi_holiness[NUM] s/// 00:13:24 nooo it doesn't have perl magic 00:13:29 !learn edit multi_holiness s|$|Step 1: convert MH to a bitfield http://sprunge.us/fNIa/| 00:13:29 Use: !learn edit multi_holiness[NUM] s/// 00:14:17 !learn edit multi_holiness[1 s|$|Step 1: convert MH to a bitfield http://sprunge.us/fNIa/| 00:14:17 multi holiness[1/5]: ebering is working on a patch to make holiness a bitfield. Please add monsters that should have more than one holiness bit to thisStep 1: convert MH to a bitfield http://sprunge.us/fNIa/ 00:14:43 PleasingFungus: would you like to explain why it is bad design? 00:14:58 Sure, as I did months ago. 00:16:09 phew. I think that patch preserves the current behavior with one small exception. Doing holiness() & MH_HOLY is now the same as is_holy(). I don't think this actually changes anything, but is_holy, is_unholy (almost) and is_evil are now just nice names for the bitfield 00:16:21 It's complexity, which requires a justification. The only justifications I saw "were to match intuition" and "to discourage people from fighting in corridors with enemies on both sides". 00:17:37 The latter case does not require further discouragement than the situation inherently creates (you're blocked in, fighting two enemies at once, etc); the former is of course extremely subjective, and I personally find the current situation much more intuitive. 00:17:52 btw, this isn't just about the "surrounded in a corridor" situation... you only need two walls adjacent to you for cleaving to not hit everything, and in practice you often got situations in which cleave didn't hit everything while fighting multiple monsters near other terrain 00:17:56 in response to the second 00:18:06 oh the save compatibility in that patch is 1000% wrong. ugh 00:18:12 well yeah that's why you swing in the air to hit them all 00:18:12 Yeah, the most common case was when fighting in those diamond grid areas. 00:18:12 the "corridors with enemies on both sides" thing was rare and is only a tiny part of it 00:18:33 Is it important to make axes bad in diamond grid layouts? 00:18:34 there were plenty of other common cases 00:18:54 e.g. 00:18:58 o@. 00:19:02 #o# 00:19:04 mostly it's just a newbietrap 00:19:09 when standing in front of a doorway 00:19:18 and having orcs (or other group monsters come out 00:19:31 or there are plenty of situations with less regular terrain 00:20:07 PleasingFungus: however, I'd like to make it clear that this justification (as I see it) isn't about discouragement 00:20:17 it is about making tactical positioning relevant 00:20:52 choosing your ground used to be a moderately important part of using axes in crawl 00:20:57 It still is. 00:21:06 you are already making a dumb decision when fighting multiple enemies at once 00:21:08 not nearly as much 00:21:32 and axes are already weaker than maces/swords because of their cleaving 00:21:51 anyway, making tactical positioning more relevant comes at a cost too - it made tab with axes quite bad sometimes 00:22:24 I am certainly willing to admit (as I said in this channel earlier) that there are advantages of simplifying cleaving 00:22:34 but I do think something has been lost too 00:23:00 Sounds like we're roughly in agreement, then, just disagreeing over a matter of degree. 00:23:02 whatever it is i do not think many will ever mourn it because they never knew it was there 00:23:31 Yeah, I was somewhat unsurprised by the number of veteran players who responded to the removal by saying "that mechanic existed?" 00:23:44 it was not communicated. 00:23:57 -!- schisto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:24 PleasingFungus: well, I think either simplecleave or oldcleave are reasonable things... but I do think that this was a significant enough balance change that I'd like to see compensation (my proposal would be to decrease cleave attack damage to 67% from 75%) 00:24:37 I'm fine with that. 00:24:44 does cleave damage change with number of enemies hit? 00:24:45 Though I really do with the damage reduction on cleaves was communicated. 00:24:51 gammafunk: no 00:25:05 a lot of stuff isn't communicated 00:25:21 <|amethyst> what about reducing axes base damage by 25% or so and making cleaving do full damage in all directions 00:25:25 would that be a thing consider doing? making the damage scale down with enemies hit, I mean 00:25:27 <|amethyst> removes any possible tab issues 00:25:36 |amethyst, are you being bitterly sarcastic again 00:25:38 that's not very fun 00:25:51 or useful 00:25:56 <|amethyst> never mind 00:26:18 gammafunk: what is the design motivation? 00:26:20 you can't prove to me that |amethyst has ever been bitterly sarcastic 00:26:33 <|amethyst> I have been... wasn't trying to be just now 00:26:37 o 00:26:40 at the time 00:26:47 I could swear it was you who argued me out of that change 00:27:01 oh the save compatibility in that patch is 1000% wrong. ugh 00:27:02 with the reasoning that it was good for your actual cleave target to matter 00:27:04 which I agree with 00:27:06 ebering: echo 00:27:10 reducing axe base damage by that much would make them pretty horrible against single enemies 00:27:25 PleasingFungus: well, the damage on axes is reduced a lot...I was just thinking that it add a positional aspect back to cleave and allow the weapon to be better 1v1 00:28:00 but yeah I don't have enough axe melee experience to have good intuition I feel 00:28:22 the entire point of cleave is to encourage people to fight a bunch of enemies at once 00:28:32 PleasingFungus: disagree 00:28:33 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:28:33 (which is generally a bad idea, and in many circumstances still is even with axes) 00:28:39 PleasingFungus: it isn't about "encourage" 00:28:40 yeah I wouldn't characterize it that way either 00:28:45 thus differentiating the playstyle of the weapon from other weapon types 00:28:56 PleasingFungus: axes are better than other weapons when you have to be next to multiple enemies at once 00:29:00 elliptic: "reduce the penalties of"? 00:29:01 they are worse when you don't 00:29:09 penalty is the wrong word 00:29:15 reduce the... danger? of? 00:29:15 now vampiric axes are another matter... 00:29:24 or axes with healing on kills 00:29:37 with them you legitimately want to fight multiple enemies at once a lot of the time 00:30:25 but in general I think that the way to think about axes is that they are a bit worse than other weapon types when you are fighting a single enemy, and they are a lot better when you have to fight 2 or more at once 00:30:38 sure, I was imprecise in my earlier phrasing 00:30:45 s/,/;/ 00:30:57 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:13 elliptic: that's a pretty narrow case isn't it? since you have to have one enemy that is doing more damage than you heal, and at least one enemy that is doing less 00:31:17 <|amethyst> which to some players seems to mean "they're worse hands-down, because if you have to fight 2 monsters at once you suck at crawl" 00:31:21 for it to be better than fighting them one at a time 00:31:49 er, referring to the vamp/healing on kills case. i type too slow 00:32:28 |amethyst: well I think you suck at crawl if you constantly find yourself having to fight 2+ monsters at once 00:32:46 but sometimes that happens beyond your control; your goal is to minimize it 00:32:48 minmay: I find this most noticeable in zot:5 00:32:57 <|amethyst> ︼earn add |amethyst |amethyst: well I think you suck at crawl 00:32:57 Okay, not adding |amethyst => |amethyst: well I think you suck at crawl 00:33:08 <|amethyst> :) 00:33:10 minmay: since you often are fighting a drac pack along with an oof or alich 00:33:12 dumb?? 00:33:12 <|amethyst> that's dumb 00:33:28 minmay: I agree "a lot of the time was an exaggeration" 00:33:41 elliptic: yeah, didn't mean to say it never happens 00:34:06 certainly vamp axes make fighting multiple enemies at once a lot less bad though :P 00:34:13 also stuff like orc knight + escorts 00:34:31 sometimes the escorts have polearms, which is very rude & inconvenient for cleaving 00:35:16 vamp axes being good probably stems from the fact that it only triggers on 60% of hits and then only heals for 1dDamage 00:35:29 which means that it's far more likely to actually work when you have multiple hits every hit 00:35:51 if it triggered every time then it would still be just as amazing on not-axes as we see with Leech 00:36:04 it is amazing on non-axes. 00:36:08 PleasingFungus: would be a lot less inconvenient if you could see the damn polearms in console without examining every one 00:36:09 <|amethyst> if it triggered every time it would be even more amazing on axes too 00:36:18 FR: make leech an axe 00:36:27 I do wish we could just move polearm users to their own monster class 00:36:29 <|amethyst> minmay: ctrl-t 00:36:30 minmay: there is a way to do that, actually 00:36:32 *classes 00:36:32 wheals added it 00:36:37 ya 00:36:41 alternately, play god's own game mode :) 00:36:42 oh, that finally got added? cool 00:36:45 oh sorry. i dont play crawl you see 00:36:54 !lg minmay 00:36:54 3284. minmay the Shield-Bearer (L1 HuFi), quit the game on D:1 (scummos_arrival_checkerplants) on 2014-12-28 06:46:33, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:04. 00:37:01 !lg minmay !boring 00:37:01 2945. minmay the Middleweight Champion (L27 GhWr of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2014-11-10 22:39:20, with 2303539 points after 124814 turns and 6:09:44. 00:37:03 clearly scumming 00:37:06 okay, I think there's too much sarcasm here 00:37:14 nah 00:37:15 lol someone made a streakbreaker for me 00:37:17 minmay: I have no idea what you are trying to communicate 00:37:18 i didnt even know i had a streak 00:37:21 rip 00:37:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:37:28 !streak minmay 00:37:32 minmay has 4 consecutive wins (FoAE, DgAM, DsHu, OgAK). 00:37:40 !streak minmay !lld 00:37:41 minmay has 4 consecutive wins (FoAE, DgAM, DsHu, OgAK) and has won their last game (GhWr). 00:37:48 streak, of a sort 00:38:09 yes I didn't think people went and broke the 1-game streaks 00:38:21 I knew they did that, I didn't remember that I had a 1-game streak :P 00:38:32 !lg . 00:38:32 1871. elliptic the Warrior (L27 HaFE of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-11-20 20:39:53, with 1428379 points after 92654 turns and 6:26:59. 00:38:42 I guess maybe I successfully registered my name everywhere then 00:38:46 iirc, it was everything listed as a streak on lld at the time? 00:38:48 er 00:38:50 on cao* 00:38:55 PleasingFungus: 1-game streaks aren't listed 00:39:00 then it is a mystery 00:39:05 someone trolled minmay?! 00:39:11 maybe the mystery vandal just didn't like minmay 00:39:17 or maybe it was a copycat 00:39:20 or maybe 00:39:22 it was minmay 00:39:43 actually, 12-28 means it's not the same time as the other quits 00:39:49 yeah 00:39:52 that is going to be a pain to clean up 00:40:07 <|amethyst> maybe we could get logs from the lld admins and IP ban someone from all the servers 00:40:27 plausible 00:42:06 <|amethyst> if it was notcluie I will throw things 00:42:13 ??lld 00:42:13 lld[1/2]: http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/#lobby - Admin is https://twitter.com/dplusplus/ . 00:42:29 ??lld[2 00:42:29 lld[2/2]: repository with webtiles patches from dplusplus: https://github.com/dplusplus/patched-dcss-webtile/commits/master 00:42:48 i think i might be more surprised if it wasn't, at this point 00:42:52 heh 00:43:00 that guy has absolutely no judgement 00:43:37 Incorrect pluralisation of messages with Sacrifice Hand 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9371 by MarvinPA 00:44:11 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:44:31 -!- eb has quit [] 00:44:56 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: hm... I wonder if there are any of those where grammar is bad and the sentence doesn't start with hands 00:45:49 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: I was thinking something like actor_hand_msg(you, "glow blue"); 00:45:56 vault sentinel (12p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 41-65 | AC/EV: 1/13 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 450 | Sp: signal horn [11!AM, 08breath], sentinel's mark | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:45:56 %??vault sentinel 00:46:09 |amethyst: didn't I implement that 00:46:17 or maybe you did 00:47:09 <|amethyst> oh, you're right 00:47:11 -!- Acidburn6 has quit [] 00:47:26 <|amethyst> player::hands_act 00:47:27 I remember that, that was a fun project 00:47:53 <|amethyst> well, MarvinPA just found another application, and grepping turns up a bunch more 00:48:02 neat 00:48:21 I don't remember the original search criteria - must have been too narrow 00:50:55 <|amethyst> can_cut_meat is funny btw 00:51:33 <|amethyst> it hels cutting your way out of nets, and avoids the "oddly" from blade card 00:51:40 <|amethyst> s/hels/helps/ 00:52:23 <|amethyst> (the implementation isn't funny, just the name) 00:52:44 hahaha I didn't realize someone added a new use for that 00:52:47 that function's been funny forever 00:52:56 I vaguely thought about renaming it, but never got around to it 00:53:08 ps if someone can make net cutting/breaking code sane 00:53:10 choppy 00:53:19 Basil: choppo? 00:53:47 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3426-g87ed8b2: Display resist chance for Sentinel's Mark (Basil) 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87ed8b2945c6 00:53:56 woo 00:54:58 !lg spicerack br=vaults s=ikiller 00:54:58 11 games for spicerack (br=vaults): 2x, 2x a vault guard, 2x a stone giant, a shadow wraith, a sphinx, a fire giant, a deep elf high priest, Mennas 00:55:03 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:55:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, looking at the docs for hands_act... 00:55:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think you might want to brush up on your English grammar :) 00:55:54 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: (specifically "subject", since "your hands" are the subject of all these sentences) 00:56:15 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:30 oh, my grammar is terrible 00:56:37 variety is the spice of life 00:56:48 I strongly considered crediting you as "spicerack" 00:56:57 !lg spicerack br=vaults s=status 00:56:57 11 games for spicerack (br=vaults): 2x, stone skin,very slightly contaminated,glowing,hasted, paralysed,regenerating (expiring),repel missiles, icy armour,paralysed,very slightly contaminated,regenerating,hasted,repel missiles, regenerating,hasted, heroism,very slightly contaminated, very slightly contaminated,regenerating,hasted (expiring), regenerating,about to teleport, paralysed,very slightly ... 00:57:20 <|amethyst> also, conjugate_verb happens to work for multi-word phrases now, as long as the verb is first, so those two parameters could be merged really 00:57:21 well, that's unreadable 00:57:22 ah well 00:57:26 it usually is 00:57:27 <|amethyst> but I'll use it as is 00:58:20 !learn insert multi_holiness[2] Todo: correct save compat. give relevant monsters multi flags. player multi flags??? 00:58:20 multi holiness[2/6]: Todo: correct save compat. give relevant monsters multi flags. player multi flags??? 00:59:11 hm 00:59:14 r??basil 00:59:14 Basil[12/14]: nice rack 00:59:18 good 00:59:20 r??basil 00:59:20 Basil[10/14]: Twisted Resurrection soon maybe??, quad damage xom effect, s/arga/agra, more zermako-lethal unrands, s/Firestarter/Calris, new L2 necro spell to replace sublim in kiku randbook, s/Geh/Tower of Eternal Flame 00:59:55 !learn edit basil[10] s/.*maybe??, // 00:59:55 No change: regex `.*maybe??, ` does not match `Twisted Resurrection soon maybe??, quad damage xom effect, s/arga/agra, more zermako-lethal unrands, s/Firestarter/Calris, new L2 necro spell to replace sublim in kiku randbook, s/Geh/Tower of Eternal Flame` 01:00:08 isn't literally any unrand zermako-lethal 01:00:10 <|amethyst> hm, how does ash interact with sacrifice hand I wonder? 01:00:13 !learn edit basil[10] s/.*maybe\?\?, // 01:00:13 Basil[10/14]: quad damage xom effect, s/arga/agra, more zermako-lethal unrands, s/Firestarter/Calris, new L2 necro spell to replace sublim in kiku randbook, s/Geh/Tower of Eternal Flame 01:01:02 PleasingFungus: yes and no 01:02:59 zermako-lethal 01:02:59 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:03:04 !messages 01:03:04 (1/1) roctavian said (2h 35m 15s ago): I had trouble getting the shadow to look right while preserving "is flying," w/r/t hippogriff tile. I agree about the stone and metal stuff, though I still think metal walls should randomly alternate horizontal/vertical bars 01:06:59 roctavian: that's cool if it's intentional 01:07:26 and having some bars vertical sounds fine but i'd want to see it in action 01:07:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:08:28 yeah, admittedly i don't know if it's a good idea or not, but i'm going to try it sometime 01:09:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:09:50 <|amethyst> hm, hands_act doesn't take a pre-verb adverb, awkward 01:09:55 the biggest offender is dis 01:10:43 and approximately 5,000,000 vaults with weird choices for stone tiles 01:11:20 oh yeah, i like the pebble revisions btw 01:11:35 are the changed stone in yet 01:11:46 Bloax: haven't had a chance 01:11:46 + textures 01:11:53 righto 01:11:54 some pebbles are in 01:12:21 thanks 01:14:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:10 ontoclasm: the pebble walls tiles are really high quality. one thing about them, and I'm not sure that this feedback is at all relevant this late, is that they looke more like a pile of rocks from e.g. a collapse than a "wall" per se 01:14:39 they are almost...."too pebbley" 01:14:45 pebbley def. is a word btw 01:15:37 i actually think a good way of dealing with that 01:15:47 would be to bring up the lowest-value pixels just a touch 01:16:01 -!- schistosomatic is now known as schistosoma 01:16:49 your art black-magic-incanctations confuse and frighten me 01:17:10 *incantations 01:17:36 !desaturate gammafunk 01:18:37 roctavian: yeah i had some of them like that at one point 01:18:43 let me see if i have a screenshot 01:19:54 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/pebbletest3.png 01:20:10 i didn't like it that much so i darkened them a little 01:20:23 but it could go back 01:20:58 hmm 01:21:00 no 01:21:09 the other thing maybe 01:21:19 is narrowing the highlights in certain places 01:21:34 yeah, i did that a bit but it could be done more 01:21:35 more along larger rocks 01:21:41 feel free to edit them 01:22:08 perhaps i will, my time has been sporadic 01:22:17 no hurry 01:22:29 i moved the book tiles a bit futher along 01:22:46 i committed them as "better than the existing ones" and left it at that xD 01:23:06 maybe {better??} 01:23:08 also i'm finally making a go at quokka and porcupine 01:24:05 quokka needs love 01:24:20 have you ever looked up close at the current quokka tile? looking at it for more than a minute is really upsetting 01:24:20 I do appreciate your work on early-game tiles 01:24:20 it's inspiring 01:24:21 hahaha 01:24:23 I have not 01:24:31 oh man, seriously try 01:24:51 lemme dig it up 01:25:27 ontoclasm: yeah thanks for working on the wall tiles in general, they have such a big impact on the game's visuals 01:25:38 roctavian: it could be a lot worse! 01:25:47 gammafunk: thanks 01:25:54 wow this thing is even worse than i imagined 01:26:00 i picture the pink lines as veins 01:26:05 which is, again, why I use superior console paradise technology 01:26:15 r 01:26:37 bloax, it's gorier than your bloodiest tiles 01:26:44 impossible 01:27:09 I do object to that octopode in a lab with no hat 01:27:09 also god damn i need a new pen 01:27:16 it needs the ac 01:27:26 anyway new quokka tile is gonna be cute but still killable 01:27:29 why do you think it's dead 01:27:31 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:32 :^) 01:27:37 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:28:09 can't wait to see how it blends in with the rest of the spammals crew 01:28:33 gammafunk: my local copy has like 8 wizmode characters with names like "wilfred" 01:28:44 most of whom i can't load because of save incompatibility 01:28:58 heh, yeah I have pretty much the same thing 01:29:14 need to go remove those saves 01:30:03 maybe we can get new stone walls for labs at some point soon 01:30:05 or a cleanup 01:30:18 "use more than a couple of colors" 01:30:20 someone was remarking how the rock walls are more antialiased than the lab stone 01:30:26 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:30:29 or whatever the terminology is 01:30:37 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:52 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:31:08 gammafunk: yeah, antialiased 01:31:18 the lab stone wall tiles are actually pretty nice already 01:31:24 interestingly, they have the same number of colors, i'm just much better at it now :D 01:31:29 huh, it's impossible for miasma to rot the player to death 01:31:32 I wonder if that's ever come up 01:31:59 the new pebbles are, i think, 6 colors 01:32:01 maybe 7 01:32:44 is there a benefit to useing so few colors 01:32:50 no 01:32:52 something about it being easier to look at? 01:33:30 it just makes it more manageable to scratch out 01:33:32 well, it makes it easier to edit, but mostly it's habit / style 01:34:25 having a billion colors makes it easier to trick yourself into using a bad color scheme or bad shapes, since it feels like you can just blur away your mistakes 01:35:18 There's a good reason I use gradient maps and that is so that the colors stay vibrant. 01:36:11 i'm trying to break myself of the habit of dithering, too 01:37:18 i tend to go "ugh i can't figure out how to shade this bit LET'S DITHER IT" and that's not good 01:37:33 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:37:54 the nasty thing about stone is that it's not so much about the highlights and shadows as it is about the midtones 01:37:56 -!- cr0ne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:03 yeah 01:38:11 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:38:24 (which is why modifying the palette of doom is a pain in the ass) 01:39:36 the only reason i can be a dirty cheater is because i know my cheat codes 01:49:45 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:19 <|amethyst> Your hand feels slithery! 01:52:54 <|amethyst> The wandering mushroom's body twitches. 01:53:36 s2s, but what's the second message? 01:53:59 <|amethyst> tukima's dance 01:54:13 ahh 01:54:17 <|amethyst> mushrooms have "body" as their hand :) 01:54:31 good as any, I suppose 01:54:35 <|amethyst> I marked several places in here where we could simplify by moving things 01:54:50 <|amethyst> in particular, we could move player::hands_act into actor 01:54:52 -!- pentax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:57 <|amethyst> (along with hands_verb) 01:55:12 <|amethyst> also, if we could give it an adverb to come before the verb, that would help 01:55:49 The wandering mushroom's fungus body twiches violently! 01:55:55 -!- ebering_rekt has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:38 <|amethyst> I also added a few more FIXME comments 01:56:49 <|amethyst> e.g. "Your dagger looks oddly sharp." 01:56:57 <|amethyst> it's not particularly odd... 01:57:24 It's sharper than sharp should be! That's very odd. 01:57:42 surreally sharp 01:57:44 <|amethyst> it's because daggers are no longer slicing weapons 01:58:20 Your dagger looks.. Unrealistically pointy. 01:58:30 Your dagger briefly looks like a knife! 01:58:45 The metamorphosis quickly subsides. 02:00:41 hm. there should be a function somewhere that maps from strings to cloud types 02:01:17 surely lua cloud machines must use something like that 02:03:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:19 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: currently it's static to l_dgn.cc 02:04:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: dgn_cloud_name_to_type 02:04:52 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:52 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: �鉝��准�閬见�嚗�] 02:05:00 thanks! 02:05:36 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3427-g87c5d07: Make hands_act handle punctuation-only objects correctly. 10(26 minutes ago, 2 files, 23+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87c5d0730701 02:05:36 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3428-gfec0670: Improve grammar of several messages for the less-handed (#9371) 10(6 minutes ago, 8 files, 54+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fec06700d15b 02:07:47 <|amethyst> _is_end_punct there might move to english.cc if it is useful elsewhere 02:08:00 <|amethyst> ISTR doing a similar check somewhere else but couldn't find it 02:08:59 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:46 -!- Euph0ria is now known as Euphoria 02:11:58 Where does the canonical manual live. It still mentions Death Knights and also I have a lot of red ink for it 02:12:07 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest 02:12:20 a fun project would be to move it downstream 02:12:24 it's on my todo, like everything else 02:14:27 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:36 I might do that after multi holi and some tso streamlining/sanity 02:16:13 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: have you discussed it with dpeg? Since that would make it slightly harder for non-devs to contribute doc fixes he may have opinions on the matter 02:16:24 I did 02:16:34 about a month? month and a half? ago 02:16:50 we looked at the edit history for the manual 02:17:10 iirc it was something like: three non-devs editing in the last several years; no non-devs at all in all of 2013 02:18:05 someone help me...I have to figure out which....sequence of things to test....in javascript....just to iterate....over the keys of a hash..help me... 02:18:27 * gammafunk dies. 02:18:42 rip 02:20:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: do you know it doesn't have a key named "length" ? 02:20:59 I guess technically no I don't know that 02:21:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: for (var key in hash) { if (hash.hasOwnProperty(key)) { ... } } 02:21:10 yeah, that's what I'm seeing as well 02:21:16 but that second test just has me living in fear 02:21:21 <|amethyst> if it didn't you could use jQuery.each() but that specifically excludes "length" because of arrays 02:21:49 |amethyst: it's a python dict of sprint map names to sprint map descs that will get turned into json and become part of the client app going to lobby.jsx 02:21:55 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3428-gfec0670 (34) 02:22:14 so I don't really know what all it will end up with in the end 02:22:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:34 hrm 02:22:45 I'm going to try the for(var) ... with the hasOwnProperty() test though 02:22:47 and see if that works 02:23:08 just such a pain to add indent for that second test; I just want to iterate the dang thing 02:23:09 <|amethyst> err, jQuery.each worse than specifically excludes it, it takes "length" to be an array length and doesn't look at hash keys at all 02:24:23 well I guess I could probably examine these variables in the developer tools? 02:24:28 and see what props they do have 02:24:50 but I'll start with the loop with inner test for hasOwnProperty I guess 02:25:22 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 02:25:46 hm. what's the appropriate TEX_ for clouds? 02:25:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: even if there's nothing inherited now, that could change if we change one of our libraries 02:27:00 |amethyst: yeah, I guess this kind of javascript complication happens with so many technologies being used, but it feels like I shouldn't have to do so much work to iterate over hash keys 02:27:01 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:27:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: welcome to javascript :( 02:27:18 TEX_MAIN 02:27:25 er 02:27:27 _DEFAULT 02:27:41 <|amethyst> gammafunk: relevant image: http://www.michaelthelin.se/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/book.jpg 02:28:15 <|amethyst> I guess it's even better side-by-side: http://anongallery.org/img/220/javascript-the-good-parts-the-definitive-guide.jpg 02:28:45 haha 02:30:03 <|amethyst> Also, funny tshirt on Crockford: http://slides.seld.be/slides/2011-09-09%20JSTGBNP/crockford.jpg 02:33:12 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:33:58 -!- ebering_rekt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:34:07 gammafunk: so when does the fun start 02:34:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3429-gcf96cfc: Basic ?/L functionality 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf96cfc5c6c5 02:34:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3430-g852f3c9: Cloud descriptions 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 193+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=852f3c9174c4 02:34:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3431-g84bf7ad: Mention cloud opacity 10(23 minutes ago, 4 files, 47+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84bf7ad260a6 02:34:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3432-gd74a7e6: Add ?/L colours 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 33+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d74a7e6873dd 02:34:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3433-g4d3b330: Add tiles to ?/L 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d3b33059d80 02:34:51 http://i.imgur.com/OXBFEYJ.png this was a fun bug 02:34:57 * gammafunk dons his Klown suit and hat. 02:35:44 PleasingFungus: that picture looks like a feature 02:35:47 haha 02:35:49 especially magical condensation 02:35:57 spooky ghostly flame 02:35:58 do you mean 02:36:05 Asgical conden=stion 02:36:24 mm 02:36:26 negative energy 02:36:33 mega spooky... 02:36:47 hm 02:36:51 quad damage cloud 02:36:58 explosion cloud 02:37:02 yes 02:37:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, I guess xv should prefer clouds to features too? 02:37:11 takes off half your hp and sticky flames you 02:37:21 <|amethyst> err, handle clouds too, preferring them to features 02:38:00 my todo item is 02:38:05 in describe.cc, when describing features, also describe the clouds above them 02:38:13 I haven't looked at the relevant code yet; we'll see how that works out 02:38:26 <|amethyst> ah, even better 02:39:16 hopefully those cloud descriptions are roughly right 02:39:17 I'm going to bed 02:39:22 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 02:39:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I might get to that TODO before you do 02:40:00 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 02:41:21 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:43:02 hrm 02:43:25 from that "Add tiles to ?/L" commit 02:43:27 + if (idx < 1292) 02:43:45 suspicious 02:45:05 fun mystery lines 02:52:45 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 02:54:19 torment cloud 03:03:36 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:04:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:44 -!- Aali__ has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:11 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:34 -!- Basil is now known as Guest42202 03:18:14 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:47 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:46 <|amethyst> oh hm 03:23:37 <|amethyst> I never new, but you can set props with &( 03:23:44 <|amethyst> e.g. &(bloody or &(mold 03:23:50 <|amethyst> s/new/knew/ 03:26:26 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:49 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:32 -!- Guest42202 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:47 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3434-g75dfdf4: List clouds in feature xv (PF) 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=75dfdf4884f2 03:49:10 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:03:47 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:06:14 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3435-g7c2a80c: Show quote toggle message in feature xv again. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c2a80cb56ce 04:06:29 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:33 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:22:15 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:31:07 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:35 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:41:06 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:49:22 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 04:50:00 -!- AlexMcc has quit [] 04:53:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:18 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:44 -!- Euphoria is now known as Euph0ria 05:12:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:41 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:28:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:40 -!- cognificent has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:38:13 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:04 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:55 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:54:42 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:03:12 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:17 !tell gammafunk I can just recommend reading the React tutorial at http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/tutorial.html, if you haven't already. apart from that, you'll have to integrate in the PageRoot component and do_url_action function in client.js 06:10:17 edlothiol: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 06:20:58 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:38 |amethyst: Hmm? did you want something? 06:23:51 !messages 06:23:52 No messages for Kramin. 06:28:53 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:30:34 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:34:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:38:09 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:16 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:42:18 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:54:59 -!- EuphOria has quit [Quit: Partake of my vision. Partake of my curse.] 06:58:08 -!- EuphOria has quit [Client Quit] 07:00:51 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:13:53 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:11 -!- Amnesthesia|Else is now known as Amnesthesia 07:33:32 !tell pleasingfungus in 852f3c9174 you duplicated noxious fumes cloud and blessed fire cloud, also can you use the syntax to deduplicate the desc of spreading flames cloud? 07:33:32 wheals: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:33:32 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 07:33:34 !messages 07:33:35 (1/2) Grunt said (1d 13h 28m 3s ago): I wrote the monster chain lightning commit after I wrote and committed the formula change to trunk 07:33:36 !messages 07:33:37 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (11h 46m 18s ago): summon limit for monster spells might be worth re-adding, but you'd have to change the message 07:34:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:38:52 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:22 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:59 kraken tentacles affecting shadow traps 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9372 by Sphara 08:06:31 flatmate (L4 SpAM) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3) 08:12:04 -!- Hailey has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 08:21:14 Game crashes when there are more than 255 chunks in inventory 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9373 by aleksil 08:22:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:42 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:15 More like monsters affecting shadow traps amirite 08:28:48 s/monsters affecting shadow // 08:33:28 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 08:34:40 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:36:41 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:10 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:48:12 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:10 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 09:00:29 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:30 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:41 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:49 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 09:09:45 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:23:55 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:32:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:31 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:46:20 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:59:04 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:59:32 -!- Vherid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:55 -!- Vherid has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:11 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:30 -!- endou______ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:05:30 -!- Lprsti99_______ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:06:31 flatmate (L4 SpAM) ERROR: range check error (27018 / 52) (D:3) 10:06:46 -!- Lohengramm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:08:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:21 -!- Lohengramm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:33 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:11 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:43 <|amethyst> Kramin: sorry, was trying to remember who perunasaurus was... knew it started with a K, then remembered it was kvaak 10:30:17 -!- eeeeeta has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:31:31 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:08 -!- Acidburn6 has quit [] 10:43:08 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:35 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 10:50:37 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:21 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:54:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:55:33 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:39 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:07:56