00:07:26 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:09:35 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:10:38 anyways 00:10:48 why do wizards have the spell book they start with 00:11:11 linley, probably 00:11:12 it's not really that wizardly to have to resort to hitting things past early game if you don't find a better book 00:11:45 !tell Grunt " I've been using Gell's Gravitas in my latest game. The damage is pretty mediocre, especially for a level 6 spell, but it does work beautifully with inner flame. It's also nice as a way to give a hexes focused character some more utility and AoE damage. I know this would probably be overpowered, but I wish it was smite targeted. It has the unfortunate side-effect of pulling... 00:11:45 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 00:11:45 ...monsters closer to you in most circumstances, which is usually not something hex focused characters want. " 00:11:45 erp 00:11:47 w/e 00:12:37 -!- caricature has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:12:52 I can read it anyway 00:12:54 v0v 00:13:28 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2989-gec99a28 (34) 00:13:47 * PleasingFungus shrugs. 00:14:05 not especially damning 00:14:10 as critcisms go 00:15:51 http://sprunge.us/UfEf here's a thing 00:15:53 pinging tabstorm 00:16:27 PF: I don't know what to make of code 00:16:33 I have a big comment 00:16:35 at the top 00:16:38 explaining the algorithm 00:16:50 it's kind of badly formatted, sorry 00:16:59 I think I'll adjust it 00:17:19 So 00:17:29 is the idea to slow ev grwoth from dodging 00:17:35 if your str is low relative to er 00:17:42 aha 00:17:56 fr: rename wizard starting class to wizzard 00:18:09 only if they start with a hat and a speed bonus 00:18:24 :v 00:18:27 well it always slows ev growth from dodging 00:18:35 but instead of being a cutoff 00:18:38 is more "continuous" 00:18:41 ya 00:18:47 thats what I was thinking of 00:19:01 I just dont know enoguh of the inner workings of the formulae to write a new one 00:19:06 but anyway if it does that i imagine its fine 00:19:17 if it sort of coincides with the old ones 00:19:20 above the cutoff 00:20:04 it's not gonna match up with the old thing that well 00:20:07 I'd have to play a game to see how the scaling works in practice 00:20:08 I'll make some graphs 00:20:10 really 00:20:18 oh i think I do have graphs for oldER though 00:20:23 or theyre on tavern 00:20:27 so that may be useful for comparison 00:20:39 I can adjust this to some extent, this is a first draft 00:20:41 idk 00:20:49 I mean numbers are tweakable 00:21:02 its just details, more important to have the general idea working imo 00:21:15 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:21:23 graph should probably be y axis ev, x axis dodging skill, for some arbitrary dex & str - and repeat that for a bunch of armours 00:21:42 I'll poke it in a little bit 00:21:49 iirc, the tavern graphs had fixed str 00:22:01 and ev vs. dodge or something, or maybe evp vs armour 00:22:08 I don't recall 00:22:13 evp isn't the relevant thing 00:22:21 I'm not touching evp 00:22:27 aevp, anyway 00:23:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:23:03 hmm 00:23:10 well, best thing to do is just playtest and tweak 00:23:11 imo 00:23:16 gonna make graphs first 00:23:29 alight 00:23:45 Show me tomorrow btw, im about to sleep 00:24:05 ok 00:24:06 hf 00:25:36 -!- SickSadWorld has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:57 ^watch JohNStEiN 00:27:57 No current CBRO game for JohNStEiN. 00:28:54 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:31:46 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:33 man 00:32:42 I could swear I once had basic spreadsheet proficiency 00:32:44 like 00:32:46 very basic 00:34:45 I used Excel for 8 hours a day for like 6 years 00:34:50 o 00:34:53 are you any good at it 00:35:14 imo you should solve my problems for me 00:36:15 gasp, I may have finally caught you johnstein 00:36:25 howdy 00:36:28 what's up? 00:36:38 thoughts! 00:36:42 on that spider end! 00:36:44 I bet you saw my spider vault and want to 00:36:47 yea 00:36:48 ha ha ha 00:36:48 :) 00:36:55 grunt already told me to make it half size :) 00:37:03 I got carried away 00:37:10 with proportions 00:37:10 -!- THICK_BO` has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:37:17 yeah, it's massive and not varied enough to support that 00:37:20 and the fancy room that changes design 00:37:22 yea 00:37:41 something you probably didn't hear is a bit of a trick 00:38:38 that subst on the outside rock will produce teleport closets, but in this particular circumstance if you use a CLEAR'd glyph it'll make the level try to build inside the rock as possible, avoiding that 00:39:14 theTower: yea I was playing around with trying not to make tele closets. 00:39:39 I will take a closer look at the CLEAR stuff. I didn't quite understand it at the time 00:39:50 outside of that trick (which I honestly only learned a few months ago) the default thing would be just the kprop 00:40:15 it is an obscure trick, look at tarantella_strand for an example 00:40:33 (rather, &Ptarantella_strand s >_>) 00:40:35 ok. ty 00:40:44 !tell gammafunk superb_item and star_item have no relation to good_item; you can't use superb_item as a modifier to an item, only as a specification in itself (e.g. 8 = superb_item) 00:40:44 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 00:40:49 I was definitely getting sidetracked with cosmetic stuff 00:41:04 trying to make it look like a spider escaping the rock 00:41:24 on that cosmetic stuff 00:42:08 I would personally avoid using big obvious glyphs like the capital letters for floor tile randomization, since usually it's linked to more significant substs than that 00:42:52 (said random floor colouring is cool, though, although I'm a little annoyed there's next to no random pillars inside this massive open space with a bunch of utnnels) 00:43:10 theTower: yea, I struggled with which glyphs to use 00:43:10 -!- Lems has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:43:26 theTower: and yea, I hadn't decorated the interior yet. 00:43:27 '"-_`~!? 00:43:35 ^ 00:43:37 (this was like a month ago when I last messed with it) 00:43:46 punctuation glyphs that aren't used for anything else 00:44:11 ah ok. so better to use those then 00:44:33 this is just a style thing, mind you 00:45:01 on something between style and actual design choice, I really dislike those runed doors >_> 00:45:10 I was thinking of chopping off the legs and adding some interior stuff 00:45:21 reasonable enough 00:45:51 and yea, wasn't sure about the runed doors 00:46:16 you can just put one or two spawns right outside the doors if you want people to notice them in autoexplore 00:46:33 orb spiders! 00:46:46 that seems to be a thing for some reason sure 00:47:03 heh 00:47:14 ty for the suggestions 00:47:19 03PleasingFungus02 07[snail] * 0.16-a0-2981-g21976b5: Snailvault tweaks (gammafunk, grunt, thetower) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21976b55ae67 00:47:26 did 00:47:32 did you make a goddamn branch for the vault 00:47:35 why not 00:47:39 branches are cheap 00:47:53 by which I mean, approximately free 00:47:58 I am... sighing into my blanket 00:48:12 why 00:48:47 what the heck is that commit >_> 00:49:18 that vault is a shell of its former self 00:49:45 did you need three people to give you advice to remove a TODO???? 00:50:03 ya 00:50:22 also ya I think like one of those tweaks was actually from a suggestion 00:50:24 ah well 00:51:24 my notes didn't record which changes were suggestions and which were just things I noticed. an oversight. 00:51:30 I may never forgive myself 00:52:24 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2990-g4ccd47d: Stabilize hydra form duration (tasonir) 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ccd47d4e2a0 00:55:08 what is the command to deal with the contrib? 00:55:13 git submodule --init? 00:55:21 git submodule update --init 00:55:25 ty 00:58:57 hm. it didn't get rid of the zlib one. odd 01:01:49 johnstein: do "gcc --version" 01:01:55 if you get 4.4.0 you need to update 01:02:49 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:03:23 ??windows 01:03:23 I don't have a page labeled windows in my learndb. 01:03:32 ??msysgit 01:03:33 I don't have a page labeled msysgit in my learndb. 01:03:43 I think I did the gcc update thing a while ago. cbro has been building ok 01:04:05 submodule update isn't guaranteed to get rid of unused shit, I think 01:04:36 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141201030207]] 01:04:56 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:15 -!- Lems has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:05:50 !learn add msysgit To build crawl with msysgit, you need gcc 4.7 or higher. Follow steps 2-4 here: http://win-builds.org/1.4.0/msys-cygwin.html#_win_builds_installation 01:05:51 msysgit[1/1]: To build crawl with msysgit, you need gcc 4.7 or higher. Follow steps 2-4 here: http://win-builds.org/1.4.0/msys-cygwin.html#_win_builds_installation 01:07:41 !learn edit msysgit[1] s/crawl/crawl 0.16+/ 01:07:41 msysgit[1/1]: To build crawl 0.16+ with msysgit, you need gcc 4.7 or higher. Follow steps 2-4 here: http://win-builds.org/1.4.0/msys-cygwin.html#_win_builds_installation 01:07:55 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:08:53 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:09:01 johnstein: oh yeah, i forgot 01:09:15 add NO_PKGCONFIG=y to your make line 01:09:27 and see if that helps 01:11:17 !learn edit msysgit[1] s/$/ Then add NO_PKGCONFIG=y when you run make./ 01:11:17 msysgit[1/1]: To build crawl 0.16+ with msysgit, you need gcc 4.7 or higher. Follow steps 2-4 here: http://win-builds.org/1.4.0/msys-cygwin.html#_win_builds_installation Then add NO_PKGCONFIG=y when you run make. 01:13:04 -!- kipster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:13:07 !learn add windows see {msysgit[1]} 01:13:08 windows[1/1]: see {msysgit[1]} 01:13:10 ??windows 01:13:10 msysgit[1/1]: To build crawl 0.16+ with msysgit, you need gcc 4.7 or higher. Follow steps 2-4 here: http://win-builds.org/1.4.0/msys-cygwin.html#_win_builds_installation Then add NO_PKGCONFIG=y when you run make. 01:16:52 -!- ruwin has quit [] 01:17:45 -!- Naubita has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:23:11 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:11 The build passed. (snail - 21976b5 #991 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43173011 01:23:11 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:35:17 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:36:50 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:38:58 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:51:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:49 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:59 -!- Sprort_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:07:20 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:09:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:09:16 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:00 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:16:10 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:21:23 very glacial backlog reading 02:21:57 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:22:05 I might use basically invulnerable snail statues in the leda's part of earthworks, though the torpor snails might work much better in and of themselves as the general thing does 02:22:22 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2990-g4ccd47d (34) 02:22:33 also, as an interim between iron golems and hell sentinels, there's this thing I made that might fit... >_> 02:30:26 -!- pentax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:32:23 -!- zauren has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 02:35:39 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:16 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:36:21 hell golems 02:40:57 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:29 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:33 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:07:33 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:59 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:10 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:53 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:22:41 Eagle77 (L1 HuWn) ERROR: range check error (27000 / 702) (D:1) 03:24:12 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:39 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:54:52 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:43 -!- causative has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:03:14 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:21:31 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:32 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:37 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:46:47 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 04:48:00 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:07:28 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:05 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:10:38 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:15:10 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:17:02 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 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06:57:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:38 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:36 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:05:45 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:21 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:10:42 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:08 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:27:51 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:29:17 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:30:07 Treeform + confused cannot attack. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9303 by yxhuvud 07:34:48 well they can if you ctrl-move 07:34:51 but who knows about that 07:36:04 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:44:06 Need treeform+confused lesson in the tutorial 07:44:37 ..well I failed to add the KiSS reports to wiki yesterday, on Monday I probably can do that 07:47:25 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Drowning in a sea of anguish] 08:04:29 -!- yuastnav_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:42 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:19:03 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:20 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:30:59 -!- penciltax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 08:33:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:19 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:40:21 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:50 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:49:26 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:29 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:55 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:56:55 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:00:50 -!- Sorbius has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:35 -!- yuastnav has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:09:13 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:10:36 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:08 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:29 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:50 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:37 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:48 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:27:19 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:36:50 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:39:03 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:17 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:43 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:57 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:49:01 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:29 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:59:31 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:01:08 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:02:34 <|amethyst> hmm... 10:02:54 <|amethyst> we should integrate boggle and ATC into the next tournament 10:03:04 -!- wat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:03:30 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:09 yes 10:06:28 provided i'm two-handed by then 10:09:38 <|amethyst> I don't think Ru works like that 10:09:41 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:40 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:35 <|amethyst> kvaak: (I assume your hand is injured, in which case I wish you good luck in your healing) 10:12:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:13:16 i'm sort of getting used to it 10:13:43 not sure if it's a good or bad thing 10:15:59 !messages 10:15:59 No messages for Wensley. 10:16:04 !massages 10:16:08 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:05 -!- vurk has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:26:53 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:17 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:24 -!- glamas_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:35:46 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:37:14 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:19 -!- glamas- has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:44:04 -!- glamas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:44:06 -!- glamas- has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:46:20 No massages for Wensley. 10:46:35 ontoclasm: hi 10:46:53 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:48:10 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:37 hi 10:51:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:07 !learn add something Hit by a stone thrown by something (4 damage) 10:52:07 -!- glamas- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:52:08 something[8/8]: Hit by a stone thrown by something (4 damage) 10:52:18 <|amethyst> :P 10:52:25 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:52:58 -!- glamas- has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:55:59 well, what was it??? 10:56:16 -!- XL28DgWn has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:33 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:34 !lg |amethyst 10:56:34 9768. neil the Infuser (L11 DECK of Xom), hit from afar by a minotaur (stone) in a Labyrinth (labyrinth_spiral) on 2014-12-06 16:51:46, with 12293 points after 11560 turns and 0:42:24. 10:56:39 er 10:56:42 that's interesting 10:57:30 <|amethyst> hmm 11:05:17 -!- glamas- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:45 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:11:07 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:13:15 I had a terrible dream 11:13:23 in which the haste spell got removed 11:13:39 ontoclasm: did you know that sprite lamp is go 11:14:42 huh 11:14:52 no 11:15:16 -!- pwnmonkey has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:43 I noticed in "#-pick viable character' I'm able to get skald on trunk. 11:15:58 ...and? 11:16:01 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2990-g4ccd47d (34) 11:22:00 thanks 11:23:11 heh 11:23:40 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:45 1learn add skald 11:24:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2991-g2fbbe06: Don't place coagulated blood in a vault 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2fbbe067fc33 11:24:15 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:27 would it be an info leak or unfair to console or something if i made it so that, when in a spell targetter, it highlighted monsters immune to the spell 11:24:29 Grunt: After playtesting it a bit, I'm considering runing the doors to the inner sanctum of snailvault. I'm fine with the running fight in the rest of the vault, but I don't like how anticlimactic the end is without anyone in there. 11:24:32 * Grunt schedules PleasingFungus to be removed. 11:24:47 rude 11:25:05 PleasingFungus: it's bad imo to use runed doors as a way to essentially control noise and monster movement 11:25:26 it's not optimally classy 11:25:30 you could tag the enemies in the inner sanctum as patrolling 11:25:31 I've not vetoing w/e you do since it's really your vault and not that important, but probably theTower would agree with me 11:25:39 yes, I do this a lot 11:25:40 (or tag the entire vault patrolling) 11:26:04 hrm 11:26:55 can I say something like "NSUBST: 7 = 2:9 patrolling"? 11:27:08 actually, why am I asking, I can just test 11:27:14 but hm I think I can't 11:27:26 ontoclasm: what prevents you from doing highlighting in console too? (btw I'd like to have that) 11:27:28 ontoclasm: Do you have a steam account? 11:28:07 PleasingFungus: you can tag the vault patrolling with TAGS or you can use the KTHINGY 11:28:14 and apply it to all the relevant glyphs at once 11:28:16 I'm doing a thing 11:28:41 Ashenzari warns you, "It is a thing" 11:29:15 Ashenzari warns you: It is. 11:29:31 Ashenzari warns you: It.. 11:29:41 Ashenzari warns you. 11:29:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:30:12 Yeah that vault has a problem with its inner walls wrt noise since they're all single-tile 11:30:47 normally you'd have kind of chambers that help break up adjacency of monsters but 11:32:38 I must be missing something. It looks an awful lot like when you travel to a new level the stairs on that level only get added to the travel cache after you climb them . . . 11:32:54 actually, maybe I'm not missing anything. 11:33:03 yeah mean even if you've seen them? 11:33:07 yeah 11:33:56 I guess none of the stair properties need saving until you know where the stair connects to . . . 11:34:40 bleh 11:36:46 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:22 yeah, adding patrolling helped a lot 11:37:22 " would it be an info leak or unfair to console or something if i made it so that, when in a spell targetter, it highlighted monsters immune to the spell" <-- I think this is fine, just make sure to not leak a monster is waring rC gear or something :D 11:37:43 Oh, hmm, I guess it would be tough it a monster naturally has rC+ but is wearing a =fire or something? Hmm. 11:40:18 trying to decide if I want to move the ponder-armour 11:40:26 being in the middle of the room means that monsters usually end up grabbing and moving it 11:40:28 which is kind of lame 11:40:48 PleasingFungus: if you can shore the inner walls including along diagonals so it's mostly two-tile, and maybe two-tile the doors, that can also help 11:41:08 for that vault, all the enemies are so close to each other because of the spiral 11:41:14 idk that there's space 11:41:16 what'd be helpful is some kind of noise map thing 11:41:22 if only..... 11:41:36 PleasingFungus: yeah you can grow the map a bit, but if you're happy how it played in patrolling, that's fine too 11:41:44 that map isn't that big presently 11:41:46 oh 11:41:50 it seems kinda large to me 11:41:51 idk 11:41:57 what is it 11:42:01 30xsomethin 11:42:41 31x23, I think 11:43:26 yeah, a few tiles in both dimensions is fine, but it's more work....but 11:43:36 hrm, this is one vault I'd def. run through mapstat 11:43:45 because of the shape and also the partial floor padding 11:43:55 you have on the...eye stalk I guess...and not the rest 11:44:14 what about it? 11:44:28 well it might tend to create zones and get vetoed a lot 11:44:30 I can run it right quick to see 11:44:33 zones? 11:44:37 give me a sec, I tweaked the padding just now 11:44:54 PleasingFungus: the section in the upper-right, the top of the shell 11:45:01 PleasingFungus: Pretty sure there's a vault command to tell monster not to move an item. 11:45:12 is there? 11:45:18 But if a monster is wearing the ponderous armor that seems nice if a bit spoilery. 11:45:33 depending on how it places in the level layout, that can create a zone with no connection to the rest of the level 11:45:36 Yeah no_pickup IIRC 11:45:50 gammafunk: surely the bottom right or top-left of the shell could do the same...? 11:45:56 PleasingFungus: yep 11:45:57 And that "no_pickup" doesn't mean something else becasue I just grepped for it. 11:46:07 the idea would be padd the whole thing like you do the for the eye stalk but 11:46:23 03PleasingFungus02 07[snail] * 0.16-a0-2992-g5eb507e: Add a new Depths vault 10(13 hours ago, 2 files, 59+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5eb507e2c833 11:46:25 reaverb: well, how does the current targetter decide there's nothing to target 11:46:37 e.g. if you're casting sting around zombies 11:46:47 Grunt: do you have an opinion on PF's snail valut, padding the whole thing with empty floor instead of just the "eye stalk"? 11:46:47 ontolcasm: Good point :D (I don't know >_> <_<) 11:47:02 Grunt knows layout hijinks better than the rest ofus 11:47:03 gammafunk: are you asking grunt 11:47:05 for opinions 11:47:36 he actually gives them sometimes 11:47:40 ! 11:47:57 also, I just ran &Ppf_snail_temple & it placed a gate to hell in the middle of the entrance hall 11:47:59 weird 11:48:30 03PleasingFungus02 07[snail] * 0.16-a0-2993-gfff0e85: Add no_pickup to snail armour (reaverb) 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fff0e85749b0 11:48:58 but...I want the spriggan to wear the ponderous CPA... 11:49:04 comedy ruined 11:49:05 PleasingFungus: btw this branch might be a good resource for aspiring vault writers >_> <_< 11:49:08 it can still wear the |s or *s 11:49:12 reaverb: ? 11:49:16 not the same!!! 11:49:21 can spriggan monsters wear plate? 11:49:23 yes 11:49:26 hm 11:49:28 actually, not sure 11:49:32 they can wear gda, tho 11:49:39 PleasingFungus: you're abusing the G glyph there 11:49:47 you monster 11:49:51 so can player spriggans 11:49:53 PleasingFungus: more correctly you're assigning it two meanings, and I don't think you want to line the entry hall with 9s 11:49:58 Grunt: oops 11:50:00 that would explain taht 11:50:02 doh 11:50:09 doh?? 11:50:10 <|amethyst> doh 11:50:14 oops?? 11:50:15 oops 11:50:17 PleasingFungus: Whenever I try adding something, I always look up older commits which did similar things. I just feel like if I was trying to write a vault I'd look thought that branch. 11:50:19 a cheispriggan pumping str will make very good use of a gda 11:50:31 I already rebased & force pushed some stuff >_> 11:50:35 but otherwise "lol" 11:50:40 Bloax: this is not what we're talking about. 11:50:43 as always 11:50:51 back when suffle existed . . . 11:50:59 *shuffle 11:51:17 souffl 11:51:25 reaverb: I don't think vault making works well in terms of looking through a sequence of commits 11:51:28 Grunt: well, that would explain why that vault seemed so much harder the second run through 11:51:36 rip souffl 11:51:44 it's better to look at completed vaults, the syntax guide, and generally just ask people who have made them 11:51:57 03PleasingFungus02 07[snail] * 0.16-a0-2994-g49616b2: oops (Grunt) 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49616b20c627 11:51:59 and with the latter you'll get different opinions 11:51:59 gammafunk: Yeah, I haven't made any big vaults :D 11:53:21 reaverb: vault making is a bit of a dark art because of the wacky syntax of des and all sorts of issues that won't really be obvious even if you're an experienced player 11:55:17 my vault commit messages are semi useful 11:55:30 Ontoclasm - was that a 'no' to having a steam account? 11:55:45 esp the ones where I quoted grunt or the tower on why I made the change 11:55:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:26 I think the single most useful thing is looking at other vaults that are of the same scope, function and placement, to the extent you can find that 11:56:47 that is helpful too! 11:56:54 gammafunk: remind me how to mapstat 11:57:05 PleasingFungus: oh I'm running it now but it's.. 11:57:13 chei-like? 11:57:16 ./crawl -mapstat Depths:1-4 11:57:22 o 11:57:31 no it's maybe a 3min job 11:57:32 are you running it on the pre- or post- force-push version 11:57:43 I git pulled just recently 11:57:54 fff0e85749b0 is the right one 11:58:00 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:01 er 11:58:02 yeah I have 49616b20c627b99d8f89dde0d218bbabb511b768 11:58:03 5eb507e2c833 11:58:08 %git 49616b20c627b9 11:58:08 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2994-g49616b2: oops (Grunt) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49616b20c627 11:58:12 o that's fine 11:58:48 wow, running mapstat might actually take longer than objstat 11:58:52 I'd assumed the reverse 11:58:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:02:22 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:45 Looks like you're good: http://sprunge.us/IZKc 12:03:04 that is 12:03:06 a lot of vetoes 12:03:08 wow 12:03:23 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 12:03:32 yeah 12:04:13 1201 233) Isolated areas with no stairs. 12:04:30 Bloax: i have one 12:04:30 why 12:04:49 but there's also a ton of zones getting made 12:04:51 well i can just get you the hobbyist version right away then 12:05:01 if you want :V 12:05:48 hm 12:05:53 -!- glamas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:05:53 fun trivia: if you attach no points to a flood fill, most tests it runs will return true. 12:05:53 !vault pf_coc_iceberg 12:05:54 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hell.des;hb=HEAD#l461 12:06:03 Lasty: attach points? 12:06:39 yeah, with flood_find.add_point() 12:06:57 !calc 8.0 / 400 12:06:57 0.02 12:06:58 are those starting points for the fill? 12:07:09 no, target points. Points it attempts to reach. 12:07:44 ah 12:08:07 Grunt: I think that placing the individual stairs after all vaults are place would help a lot with the isolated stairs business, if that could be done 12:08:10 In other news, now the conduct is fully working. I'm adding documentation in perparation to push it to branch. 12:08:14 right now the stairs get placed, then the vaults 12:08:43 but since it should always be possible to place a stair on a single tile somewhere... 12:08:51 although I recall some layouts place stairs themselves 12:08:54 *preparation 12:09:06 gammafunk: I'm 99% sure that's how it is done already 12:09:24 hrm, I recall seeing it was the opposite, so I should check 12:11:37 yeah there's a stair fixup step post vault placement, but... 12:11:39 * Grunt investigates. 12:12:29 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2992-ga17c66b: Add a new Depths vault 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 59+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a17c66b2ac69 12:12:50 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 12:12:54 gammafunk: it places after the primary vault and the layout but before additional vaults 12:12:57 hm 12:13:06 ah 12:13:22 Grunt: where is that placement step? I had found this before when investigating but now I forget 12:13:36 !source dungeon.cc:4319 12:13:36 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc;hb=HEAD#l4319 12:13:42 ty 12:14:03 ah yes 12:14:34 I recall starting to write a patch to change this, but I ran into problems with connectivity verification at some point 12:15:36 PleasingFungus: but yeah your vault will show up about 2% of the time in depths effectively and seems to be placing ok 12:15:51 Sounds fine to me. :) 12:15:55 Thank you for all the help! 12:15:57 8 placements over 400 levels of depths 12:16:02 PleasingFungus: there's still a mistake there 12:16:05 NSUBST: 7 = 2:G / *:. 12:16:06 oh? 12:16:09 erp 12:16:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2993-g3fe31b9: Erp (Grunt) 10(21 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3fe31b982ba8 12:16:57 yeah glyph usage in des gets weird fast 12:17:12 PleasingFungus: dangit doy stop that! 12:17:32 doy??? 12:17:33 Who stashes things? Seriously! 12:17:35 ): 12:17:40 ):?? 12:17:47 (:?? 12:17:47 (: 12:20:15 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:20:40 gammafunk: I can't test this thoroughly right now because I need to leave for work, but something like this: 12:20:57 http://sprunge.us/bcEQ 12:21:53 imo mapstat that and see if it helps 12:22:38 hm 12:22:43 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22:46 grunt, how would you feel about adding Invisiblity to Party Tricks? 12:22:51 haha 12:22:53 12:23:02 heh 12:23:04 (ask me again later when I'm not in the process of leaving) 12:23:06 ok 12:23:36 invis to party tricks...that's an awfully high level spell for a book with such low level ones, isn't it? 12:23:40 ??book_of_party_tricks 12:23:40 book of party tricks[1/1]: Summon Butterflies, Apportation, Blink, Alistair's Intoxication, Tukima's Dance 12:23:51 ??tukima's_dance 12:23:51 tukima's dance[1/3]: A level 3 Hexes spell that animates the weapon of the targeted creature, creating a {dancing weapon}, and causes it to attack its former owner exclusively, {Haunt}-style. 12:23:54 ??alistair's intoxication 12:23:55 alistair's intoxication[1/1]: L4 Transmutation-Poison spell. Has a (40 + power/3)% (max 73%) chance of confusing each natural, non-poison resistant monster in line of sight with greater than animal intelligence. Has a (60 - power/3)% chance of affecting you, even with rPois, if you do not have a source of clarity. Also drains 1-3 points of intelligence 5% of the time. 12:24:06 1/1/2/3/4/6 12:24:15 * PleasingFungus shrugs. 12:24:23 ??invisibility 12:24:23 invisibility[1/5]: If you are invisible, monsters won't shoot ranged attacks at you unless they can see you, or can guess where you are. Monsters with {sense invisible} still have to guess your location, but will only fire if they guess right; others get a random fuzz to their aiming point, which might be inaccurate in the first place. 12:24:23 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:26 peh 12:24:29 well alistair's is....not widely used, but yeah there's a distribution there at least 12:24:56 also, invisibility would be an *excellent* party trick. 12:25:19 yeah but so would nearly every spell in crawl! 12:25:30 agony seems pretty bad 12:25:31 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:25:35 as party tricks go 12:25:46 I'm sure you could use it on like 12:25:47 depends on the party 12:25:57 that frat guy who's big and can totally take it 12:26:03 likewise most of the conjurations, etc 12:26:11 you're right that it's a broad theme, tho. 12:26:12 no no those would be great 12:26:23 firestorm a bush! hahahahah 12:26:45 yeah making invis not only in burglary would make people happy 12:27:13 quite a few were sad that en no longer got invis, which I guess was in maledictions at some point? 12:27:54 until I think 0.15 12:28:06 maybe 0.14 12:28:56 oh, wow, maledictions' description is great 12:28:59 it's one of those books you'll just randomly find, acquire, or maybe get sif gifted, since no single school dominates 12:29:24 summ/tloc/tloc/poison/tmut/hex(/hex) 12:29:26 yeah 12:30:05 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:33 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:43 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:30:53 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:45 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:47 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:44:58 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:15 <|amethyst> Could come up with a new book with a better theme than wizardry 12:47:41 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:48:03 Specifically for invis? I don't know that we need any more hex books... 12:48:03 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:48:15 roctavian: :) 12:48:40 <|amethyst> not specifically for invis 12:48:48 (specifically for haste?) 12:48:53 <|amethyst> but it would let us shift other things around 12:48:56 oh 12:49:32 I'd like it if we could maybe rethink Wz a bit and go from there, but not everyone likes that idea I guess 12:49:56 gammafunk: what do you have in mind? 12:50:30 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:00 hrm 12:51:39 also 12:51:46 haha: Prior to 0.14, wizards started with 20 gold. 12:51:53 that's very nethack, I like it 12:52:00 <|amethyst> could make a book with upgrades to the Minor Magic spells 12:52:14 all classes had a different amount of starting gold 12:52:19 iirc 12:52:24 oh 12:52:29 monks started with nothing because monks 12:52:45 %git c9b3623f6ee9415e0af98d12820578e3b08b7ec7 12:52:45 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-450-gc9b3623: Nerf quitrobin by removing starting gold. 10(1 year, 1 month ago, 1 file, 0+ 26-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c9b3623f6ee9 12:52:55 warpers were richer, because ??? 12:52:55 rip 12:53:02 <|amethyst> IMB, Passage, Demon, DMsl, Leda's, Ring of Flames, PCloud 12:53:18 <|amethyst> (maybe one of the earth spells instead of IMB) 12:53:21 I wonder if that was an attempt to compensate for it being kinda bad 12:53:22 <|amethyst> call it the book of major magic 12:53:34 we already have leda's in like seventy books 12:53:52 by which I mean four 12:53:53 book of medium magic 12:53:56 it may be the most common spell in the game 12:54:17 <|amethyst> could be removed from hindrance and earth 12:54:18 intermediate magic. already got 3 books of major magic anyway >.> 12:54:33 !lg * current trunk !boring s=cls 12:54:35 133061 games for * (current trunk !boring): 20629x Fighter, 14185x Berserker, 9725x Transmuter, 8578x Monk, 7349x Gladiator, 6681x Fire Elementalist, 6292x Wizard, 5520x Conjurer, 5212x Enchanter, 5134x Assassin, 5128x Hunter, 4954x Skald, 4406x Wanderer, 3525x Abyssal Knight, 3320x Ice Elementalist, 3125x Earth Elementalist, 3031x Chaos Knight, 2957x Necromancer, 2401x Summoner, 2322x Air Element... 12:54:47 !lg * current !trunk !boring s=cls 12:54:48 hrm, it really remains a popular bg 12:54:49 146797 games for * (current !trunk !boring): 23803x Fighter, 16157x Berserker, 9039x Monk, 8374x Gladiator, 7337x Wizard, 7293x Conjurer, 6812x Transmuter, 6191x Abyssal Knight, 6041x Assassin, 5919x Skald, 5856x Fire Elementalist, 5813x Enchanter, 5313x Hunter, 4048x Ice Elementalist, 3461x Necromancer, 3331x Earth Elementalist, 3010x Death Knight, 2972x Summoner, 2840x Wanderer, 2641x Chaos Knig... 12:55:12 it's a name with a lot of appeal 12:55:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:25 !lm * current trunk dk 12:55:27 8400. [2014-11-25 14:13:19] hortensia the Chopper (L7 HODK of Yredelemnul) killed Natasha on turn 3111. (D:4) 12:55:40 !lm . dk 12:55:41 327. [2014-11-16 21:25:57] gammafunk the Torchbearer (L1 VSDK of Yredelemnul) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 12:55:52 ...are you saving that character 12:55:55 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:56 DrKe is probably having nightmares all the time because of that 12:55:58 for some kind of nefarious purposes 12:56:26 yeah it's my sword of damocles for his DK class score 12:56:35 |amethyst: I think earth is getting a little empty without leda's 12:56:44 would be down to four spells 12:56:53 I was thinking about taking it out of hinderance, though, yeah 12:57:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:57:10 idk. could take it out of earth 12:57:12 rip DK 12:58:12 you could put crystal spear in earth, but that's a pretty dramatic change 12:58:22 ??book_of_earth 12:58:23 book of the earth[1/1]: Leda's Liquefaction, Bolt of Magma, Statue Form, Iron Shot, Shatter. Also contains Dig in 0.13 and earlier. 12:58:28 (how come DK was removed anyways, too similar to necromancer?) 12:58:34 basically 12:59:19 well I'd say that it's too similar to just getting yred at temple, but there is overlap with Ne 12:59:38 I guess d:1 zombies are a pre big deal after all 12:59:46 -!- Guest29915 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:59:53 ??yred 12:59:53 yredelemnul[1/4]: God of the death knights. Grants the following invocations: reanimate monsters as zombies (single and multi-target versions), recall friendly undead, injury mirror, area of effect vampiric draining, and enslave soul (see next entry). Also gifts undead pets. 13:01:26 yeah Wz is a bit odd, but maybe it doesn't really need a change; it's kind of BATTLEMAGE more than what I'd think of as wizard, but that's a flavour/theme thing 13:02:15 I guess one thing that'd be nice is if it had a better spell to transition into mid-game 13:02:15 yeah I like the class, just don'tl ike the name. 13:02:38 ??book_of_minor_magic 13:02:38 just meph everything 13:02:38 book of minor magic[1/1]: Magic Dart, Blink, Call Imp, Repel Missiles, Slow, Conjure Flame, Mephitic Cloud 13:02:38 <_< 13:03:00 yeah it's true that meph can really carry you, I seem to keep forgetting that they have that 13:03:13 it's kind of their thing 13:03:17 ??meph reasons 13:03:18 meph reasons[1/27]: no 13:03:28 ??young poisoner's handbook 13:03:28 young poisoner's handbook[1/1]: Sting, Cure Poison, Mephitic Cloud, Olgreb's Toxic Radiance, Venom Bolt 13:03:31 yeah I know but 13:03:33 well it's sort of supposed to be the vm's thing but 13:03:33 vm has other stuff 13:03:36 like venom bolt 13:03:39 Hedge Wizard or Dilettante or Jack of All Trades ... 13:03:50 yeah I'd say this: a replacement for meph that's about as powerful would be good 13:03:59 let the vms use meph 13:04:01 and very fun times with hydras, spiny frogs, black mambas 13:04:09 but wz have to lean on meph a lot more than vm do 13:04:11 cue third dazzling spray use 13:04:12 Maybe minor magic should pick up stone arrow or something? Magic dart is terrible past early game 13:04:16 s/but / 13:04:19 PleasingFungus: right, which is what seems odd 13:04:32 v0v 13:04:37 (or dazzling spray because that spell rules) 13:04:43 dazzlin' 13:04:52 Cj gets dazzlin though 13:04:56 ??book_of_conjurations 13:04:57 book of conjurations[1/1]: Magic Dart, Searing Ray, Dazzling Spray, Fulminant Prism, Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, Iskenderun's Battlesphere 13:04:57 also, en 13:05:03 yeah 13:05:04 but conjure flame is good and being encouraged to branch out is good 13:05:12 I did say third 13:05:17 conjure flame + meph is fun, especially for new players. 13:05:19 baby's first combo. 13:05:34 Lasty: the point isn't to give them a diminutive: we don't have Apprentice Fighter or Baby Gladiator or w/e. 13:05:43 other Wizard names: Generalist 13:05:52 Lasty: yeah, I'm saying that with the right replacement for meph, they could get the power out of that spell and maybe get both differentiation from VM and possibly something more interesting than meph 13:05:58 but I don't know what that replacement should be so w/e 13:06:35 PleasingFungus: who said the point was to diminish them? I'm trying to find the flavor of someone who has studied broadly or who has picked up a few tricks 13:06:48 hedge wizard is pretty diminutive 13:07:12 Perhaps, but that's not the reason I offered it 13:07:12 ??fulminant_prism 13:07:12 fulminant prism[1/2]: Level 4 (5 in 0.13-) conjuration/hexes. Conjures an explosive prism at a smite-targeted location which will detonate with a radius-2 explosion after 2 turns, dealing considerable irresistible damage. 13:07:13 and generalist, jack of all trades, dilettante aren't a great match for the class 13:07:24 (and dilettante is again diminutive!) 13:07:43 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-2671-g1a947cd: Implement Backtrackticus conduct 10(11 days ago, 9 files, 175+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a947cdda6d9 13:07:44 if I was going to rename it, I'd be honestly tempted by battlemage (BATTLEMAGE) 13:07:44 I could see them getting maybe fulminant over meph, but that's an interesting spell for cj 13:07:45 BATTLEMAGE 13:07:48 PleasingFungus: yeah, since that's really what they are 13:07:49 sword in one hand, stave in the other (except you can't do that in crawl) 13:07:51 gammafunk: I feel good about -meph 13:07:52 but it is a silly name 13:07:59 sword in the a slot, stave in the b slot! 13:08:03 Lasty: any suggestions for a replacement though? 13:08:26 !gamesby Lasty wz 13:08:27 Lasty (wz) has played 3 games, between 2014-07-02 21:21:58 and 2014-09-07 18:54:55, won 1 (33.3%), high score 1627299, total score 1999709, total turns 137048, play-time/day 0:09:37, total time 10:54:22. 13:08:31 good winrate 13:08:34 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:36 more wz wins than me 13:08:44 !gamesby . wz !boring 13:08:45 gammafunk (wz !boring) has played 2 games, between 2012-11-25 03:39:03 and 2014-07-30 17:51:01, won 0, high score 52626, total score 52735, total turns 28759, play-time/day 0:00:15, total time 2:39:32. 13:08:45 I honestly don't remember if I have a wz win 13:08:49 !gamesby . wz 13:08:50 PleasingFungus (wz) has played 7 games, between 2014-02-05 03:57:28 and 2014-11-20 05:31:36, won 0, high score 47962, total score 53790, total turns 41574, play-time/day 0:00:40, total time 3:16:04. 13:08:53 rip 13:09:05 sword and stave... 13:09:05 I think mine were NaWz speedrun attempts 13:09:14 obviously, the answer is reaver. 13:09:23 that is a cool name 13:09:25 theTower: the second reaver! 13:09:27 you could call it 13:09:29 Re2 13:09:29 reaver B 13:09:33 daaaanng 13:09:36 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:36 pfffffff 13:09:38 augh 13:09:42 pFFFFFFFFF 13:09:43 woah 13:09:50 he joined right after you said that 13:09:52 are you magic 13:09:55 I am 13:09:56 gammafunk: thinking it over. Prism is interesting. Lightning Spire. Irradiate. I'd like to give them something wth utility . . . 13:09:57 a wizard 13:09:59 ! 13:10:03 Force Lance? 13:10:04 irradiate... 13:10:10 anyway I think the conj flame + meph thing is a fun enough combo that I would feel sad about losing it 13:10:25 cloud mage 13:10:32 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:36 I don't feel that meph Should Be vm's thing 13:11:00 olgreb's + cure poison is vm's thing >_> 13:11:11 ya 13:11:11 I like current Wz, even if its more of a hybrid than a pure magic user. 13:11:16 and boy is that popular! 13:11:27 reaverb: ya we were talking about changing the name to make it fit better 13:11:55 Mage 13:12:04 also rename venom mage 13:12:21 yeah Wz spellset is not broken, still think it could be improved though. There's so much reason to use dang cflame all the time as it is even w/o meph 13:12:50 theTower: mage is just as bad as wizard! 13:12:50 in fact, it's the same thing 13:12:50 We use the term Mage on the start screen to describe the book starts in that right-most column 13:12:50 ??book of minor magic 13:12:50 book of minor magic[1/1]: Magic Dart, Blink, Call Imp, Repel Missiles, Slow, Conjure Flame, Mephitic Cloud 13:12:58 theTower: Venom Elementalist 13:13:10 expand "poison" into like "disease stuff" 13:13:12 good mental process, me: "apprentice -> sorcerer's apprentice -> replace that stupid slow spell in the book with tukima's" 13:13:14 I don't use call imp as a wizard 13:13:18 so we can have more spell differentiation 13:13:24 zxc232: why not? 13:13:27 imp is very very good, most wz use it 13:13:27 <|amethyst> If you wanted higher-level damage, what about replacing rmsl with airstrike 13:13:39 that's actually not a terrible idea 13:13:44 theTower: oh, I kind of like that 13:13:45 re tukima's 13:13:46 <|amethyst> L4 spell for wizard might be too high, though, and it makes Meph harder to train for 13:13:53 a class that starts with tukima's could be cool since it's very much an early game spell 13:13:57 yeah tukima oculd be interesting 13:14:00 I prefer to learn blink first, and then get conjure + meph working faster 13:14:04 of course I'm biased, but 13:14:06 tuk is lv3 i thought 13:14:06 |amethyst: no that's not really true, it being L4 13:14:08 and then call imp is not really useful after that 13:14:10 ontoclasm: it is 13:14:20 the other books starts have two-school L4 spells that are easy to get going 13:14:26 I just merged master and got some new tag conflicts, but the new tags aren't in tags.lua. Is that an oversight? 13:14:32 what is tags.lua 13:15:08 for me Wz is all about blink, conjure flame and meph cloud, but primarily conjure flame 13:15:12 (sorry, plans of making tukima's level 4 and checking HD instead of MR.) 13:15:15 <|amethyst> Lasty: it should be rebuilt when you make 13:15:28 <|amethyst> Lasty: but you might have to touch tag-version.h 13:15:33 well that's a personal preference, since you can lear call imp and use it well on xl2 13:15:36 which often happens on d:1 13:15:40 <|amethyst> Lasty: if git changed it without updating the timestamp 13:15:46 <|amethyst> (but it shouldn't do that?) 13:15:49 ??class list 13:15:50 class list[1/1]: 0.14 classes: AE AK AM Ar As Be Cj CK DK EE En FE Fi Gl He Hu IE Mo Ne Sk Su Tm VM Wn Wr Wz 13:15:55 ??book of minor magic 13:15:56 book of minor magic[1/1]: Magic Dart, Blink, Call Imp, Repel Missiles, Slow, Conjure Flame, Mephitic Cloud 13:15:56 mystic warrior, to complement arcane marksman 13:16:20 mystic warrior...that's so campy that I like it 13:16:29 |amethyst: thanks! 13:16:33 <|amethyst> Mystic Warrior sounds like Skald 13:16:40 no but it's *mystic* 13:16:41 I think the fact you need to find an alternative damage source on Wz interesting, there aren't any other backgrounds like that. Since picking up some melee weapon is always an option by the time Magic Dart/Call Imp stop working, I think not having a higher level offensive spell is fine >_> 13:16:43 that's the difference 13:16:45 <|amethyst> or at least like it starts with a weapon 13:16:50 theTower: boo to hd checking spells 13:16:50 well, that is kinda another oint; skald already claims that hybrid spot 13:16:54 *point 13:16:56 fr: mystic dart 13:16:58 one thing I'm not sure about is how Wz gets the most int, yet the spellbook leans towards a hybrid style 13:17:06 geekosaur: it's a very different kind of hybrid 13:17:09 yeah that's an incongruency 13:17:10 zxc232: yeah that's really weird. 13:17:13 pleasingfungus: please make mr not dumb in all incarnations first :P 13:17:13 true, but. 13:17:21 theTower: hd is so much better........ 13:17:35 tbh backgrounds determing stats is sort of weird and could probably be removed >_> 13:17:41 um 13:17:41 <|amethyst> start wizard with a qstaff 13:17:46 are you quite sure about that, reaverb. 13:17:48 no that's not really true reaverb 13:17:55 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3002-g7eb3d50: merging master 10(44 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7eb3d505da70 13:18:03 you need some stat placement to make the early levels viable for that start 13:18:06 pleasingfungus: also you were complaining about cerebov tukima's when I wanted it to be outright no check >_> 13:18:16 it does make backgrounds matter more for more than just the early game though 13:18:18 at least to a small extent 13:18:19 unless you want to let the player choose their stat points at start, but we don't like that 13:18:48 oh fwiw I agree with reaverb wrt needing to find an alternative damage source 13:19:09 conjure flame + darts lasts through lair though 13:19:29 at least on tougher races 13:19:45 conjure flame, yes. darts, ehhhhh 13:20:27 darts lose their lustre pretty fast 13:20:35 yeah Wz probably is a button mashing heavy background since its spells do lower damage 13:20:50 but that's not that big a price to pay 13:21:12 it's tedious but you can do lair with darts and conjure flame 13:21:13 also, blowgun 13:21:29 but just imagine conjure flame + imp 13:21:53 I'll have to try that 13:22:13 but what I found was that enemies that don't step into the flame will die to dart, and those that do will die to the flame 13:22:44 Also automagic exists if somebody wanted to use that, the interface for automagic is a little problematic. 13:22:51 yeah in the portion of the game when imps are at their best, cflame is quite strong at that point, but imp is still optimal to use since you get it so very early and it remains useful for a while 13:23:01 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-2994-gbeb6bfd: Goliath Beetle tile (Bloax) 10(39 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=beb6bfd87c71 13:23:01 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-2995-g596a959: Small edits to recent wielded weapon tiles. 10(17 minutes ago, 8 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=596a959b87c4 13:23:03 although the interface etc. etc. 13:23:03 reaverb: I just bind zaf to spacebar 13:23:19 white imps are just very strong, and yeah crimsons can at least live in cflame 13:23:33 crimsons just blink around and waste your mana -_- 13:23:49 zxc232: they tend to be good at covering an escape 13:23:50 I feel like the summoning cap kind of neutered wizard; used to be you could just rely on imps for anything outside of hydra 13:23:50 zxc232: that's not really true 13:24:02 I find imps only useflu for making a gap to retreat through 13:24:15 they can do that, but they work well when you make a couple of them and you get them lined up in corridors 13:24:36 if crimson imps were so bad I wouldn't be relying on them so much as a Su 13:24:53 the blinking can make them hilariously bad at times, but you can make another one for 2 mp 13:25:25 also, I found the illusion card less useful when you learn blink 13:25:38 though that was funny to see 13:26:01 anyhow yeah enough people seem happy with current Wz gameplay 13:26:08 we could rename it, but then there's the hassle of that 13:26:29 seems maybe not wise to rename it with no changes to the start (even if we do tweak starting int) 13:26:39 Something like "Hedge Mage" could work. 13:26:58 well I mean the class abbreviations and game records all being complicated by that 13:27:04 <|amethyst> you're not allowed to rename an existing race or background unless it makes new words 13:28:01 I'd complain that "cute" background names will confuse players anyhow, but then we do have species like "felid" and "octopode" 13:28:07 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3002-g1ba6158: merging master 10(11 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ba615887ac0 13:28:19 deja vu ^ 13:28:35 Lasty: not going to push a new branch Wulndraste? 13:28:36 missed one merged file initially 13:28:42 I think most people can connect felid -> cat and octopode -> octopus, I'd be more worried about Fo 13:28:57 gammafunk: wasn't planning to, but am in process of renaming 13:29:24 <|amethyst> reaverb: "Dwant" is always waiting 13:29:27 reaverb: well it's not so much the connection to an ordinary animal as it is "what the heck is a playable octopus in terms of a roleplaying game" 13:29:42 gammafunk: is there a reason to change the branch name? 13:29:53 <|amethyst> though I'd argue "Felid" is misleading because it seems to make non-tiles people think they're hybrids 13:29:57 Lasty: I guess not, although will you be doing an experimental branch? 13:30:06 if yes, then maybe you actually should? 13:30:06 gammafunk: Well the species descriptions are pretty good a fixing that. 13:30:15 gammafunk: yes, that's the plan 13:30:17 that octopode transmuter picture convinced me of the RP potential of octopodes 13:30:24 haha 13:30:40 reaverb: yeah, in the case of the backgrounds, their's a consistency where their names are not really oddball 13:30:46 *there's 13:31:03 and then we'd have "Hedge Wizard" which is just going to be kind of a head-scratcher 13:31:13 Except "Skald" :D 13:31:21 oh that's not silly though 13:31:24 But I see your point. 13:31:25 skald is a common rpg trope 13:31:29 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:32 For species I guess we just jumped the shark already 13:32:04 gammafunk: I still like the idea of swapping slow -> tukima's and renaming to reaver 13:32:06 Wz could be renamed to the first silly bg name, I guess 13:32:07 no, you removed sharks already 13:32:17 PleasingFungus: yeah, I'd like both of those things as well 13:32:24 PleasingFungus: Please don't rename anything to reaver ever it would be so confusing to me >_> 13:32:29 yessss 13:32:31 !lg * --re 13:32:31 do ittt 13:32:33 PleasingFungus: +1 13:32:34 19773. nogglebeak the Poker (L3 MfRe), blasted by Jessica (nerve-wracking pain) on D:2 on 2011-12-22 16:32:07, with 61 points after 1747 turns and 0:04:14. 13:32:36 i wonder if briefly jump-attack felids and sharks coexisted 13:32:39 tengu reaver being added was part of why I went to reaverb 13:32:42 <|amethyst> Reaver to beaver 13:32:44 oh man 13:32:46 oh. also, renaming arcane marksman to arkane markspersons 13:32:56 could we make him turn into reaverc or something? 13:32:58 I forgot about that 13:33:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: arcane archer 13:33:19 |amethyst: what words though?! 13:33:23 graa 13:33:26 TrAA 13:33:27 Ooh, soon we can be HaAA! 13:33:46 also can't they use different kinds of launchers 13:33:53 yeah 13:33:55 arcane marksman can have rnaged attackes othe- ^ 13:33:59 arcane hunter maybe? 13:34:07 Arcane Shooter 13:34:10 witchhunter 13:34:15 good 13:34:26 toxophilite 13:34:29 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:42 oh man, witchhuter 13:34:45 *hunter 13:34:46 that's... something 13:34:50 oh, was Dragoon...right that was a mounted firearm guy? 13:35:12 oh not really I guess 13:35:18 <|amethyst> didn't someone mention "Arcane Fusilier" or something recently 13:35:21 and we dont' have mounts 13:35:24 Dragoon was the test class for jump-attack :v 13:35:25 <|amethyst> dragoons have spears and jump really high 13:35:26 they were essentially the historical equivalent of mechanized infantry - rode into battle and dismounted to fight 13:35:33 also, what |amethyst said 13:35:34 Lightli: no I don't think that was the case 13:35:43 gammafunk: what would you know??? 13:35:44 you're misremembering 13:35:49 I'm just guessing here! 13:35:52 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:36:41 man, people are going to be *so angry* if we rename wizard 13:36:47 people really want to play wizards 13:36:54 but otoh people live the title "Reaver" 13:36:57 which is to say "something called wizard" 13:37:09 PleasingFungus: one thing re: your slow->tukima's is that slow is particularly good with cflame, but as you said you still have meph 13:37:14 there are intermittently still people who want us to bring back "paladin" 13:37:24 gammafunk: is slow really good with cflame? I guess it's better at kiting 13:37:37 sure, since it lets you set up more flames 13:37:51 Is it normal to not sure Slow on Wz or am I just bad at playing Wz? 13:37:52 ya 13:37:55 s/sure/use/ 13:38:18 but is the mp for getting slow (+ hexes skill) really that much better spent than with darts, meph, or imps 13:38:18 tbh I generally don't end up using it myself but I'm not gonna claim that's optimal play 13:38:36 wonder if there's some sequell command. 13:39:31 -!- gareppa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:39 I don't believe that's tracked. 13:40:22 slow is a very powerful hex because of where it sits level-wise and its broad range of uses, but I still like the tukima replacement idea overall 13:40:24 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:40:35 Well casting spells is tracked by the game because its in morgue files IIRC. Do you mean "Its not uploaded into the Sequell database?" 13:40:52 <|amethyst> yes, sequell only looks at milestones and logfiles 13:41:23 Oh, you meant # of times you cast a spell, not which spells you memorized. 13:41:48 <|amethyst> morgues might be too big to reasonably transfer, parse, and store them all 13:42:05 both are potentially tracked, depending on the rc settings 13:42:13 forget if the action table is enabled by default 13:42:20 <|amethyst> it is now I believe 13:42:23 but spell casts are tracked in the morgue action table 13:43:22 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2996-g6711315: Remove Leda's Liquefication from Hinderance 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=671131563a70 13:43:54 <|amethyst> hm 13:44:01 <|amethyst> can we maybe rename SPELL_BONE_ARMOUR 13:44:04 <|amethyst> the enum that is 13:44:23 <|amethyst> or is the spell name not definitely settled yet? 13:44:29 no, sorry, we can 13:44:42 Cigutovi's Bones 13:44:58 ??cigotuvi 13:44:58 cigotuvi[1/1]: Do you mean {cigotuvi's fleshworks} or {cigotuvi's embrace}? 13:45:05 always misspell that 13:45:10 cigutovi's calming message 13:45:23 <|amethyst> cigotuvi's calming massage 13:45:32 probably also want to rename STATUS_BONE_ARMOUR, ATTR_BONE_ARMOUR, ENCH_BONE_ARMOUR, MB_BONE_ARMOUR, and corpse_armour() 13:45:36 cigoutiv's happy ending 13:45:42 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm... 13:45:42 *spelling 13:45:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I don't mind it as much for the ench etc for some reason 13:46:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's not uncommon for spells to result in enchantments with different names 13:46:19 DUR_ICY_ARMOUR 13:46:44 <|amethyst> and the enchantment could at some point come from a non-spell effect 13:46:47 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:02 <|amethyst> in which case it doesn't make sense anymore to have the wizard's name on it 13:47:31 sure 13:48:49 anyway, do you want to do it or should I 13:49:16 <|amethyst> you can, I'm never going to catch up with your commits per time anyway :) 13:49:31 optimizing CPS 13:49:39 one commit per character 13:49:52 <|amethyst> sounds like a collaborative document editing system 13:49:58 <|amethyst> with infinite undo 13:50:05 remember google wave 13:50:23 <|amethyst> remember the alamo 13:50:58 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:51:00 sure, they have rental cars 13:51:45 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:44 oh no, ledas nerf 13:52:54 <|amethyst> you people keep using that word 13:53:21 * geekosaur assumes it's usually about as serious as fr... 13:53:50 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:06 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:10 I'm still waiting for that commit comment versus commit size ratio measure 13:54:17 -!- somebody1 is now known as somebody 13:54:21 curious to see if anybody's getting close 13:55:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2997-g80c3c75: Rename Cigotuvi's Enum (|amethyst) 10(26 seconds ago, 10 files, 14+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80c3c75fc534 13:56:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:57:03 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 13:59:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:06:08 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:09:30 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 14:13:11 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:50 What colors represent wulndraste? I'm thinking greens, blues, maybe brown/yellow? 14:20:49 ??wulndraste 14:20:49 I don't have a page labeled wulndraste in my learndb. 14:21:01 we currently have two brown gods, one lightblue, one darkblue, one lightgreen, and I'm not sure what jiyva is. 14:21:01 johnstein: the no-backtracking god 14:21:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 14:21:16 you misspelled Rick James 14:21:17 <|amethyst> use stair colours 14:22:21 Jiyva is green/brown/lightgreen 14:22:29 where do you see brown? 14:22:46 ??source init_element_colours 14:22:47 I don't have a page labeled source_init_element_colours in my learndb. 14:23:03 <|amethyst> !source colour.cc:514 14:23:03 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/colour.cc;hb=HEAD#l514 14:23:06 colour.cc#514 14:23:14 too slow again 14:23:23 heh 14:23:28 I was poking around religion.cc 14:23:49 <|amethyst> but yeah 14:23:54 <|amethyst> there are two colours for each god 14:23:54 which associates jiyva sometimes with green, sometimes with green/lightgreen 14:24:00 <|amethyst> the altar colour and the speech colour 14:24:07 <|amethyst> oh, three? 14:24:11 I'm trying to figure out what's used in ?/G 14:24:19 <|amethyst> ah, ?/G 14:24:21 which I think is a third colour 14:25:13 hm 14:25:15 it claims to use god_message_altar_colour 14:25:20 We could go yellow/lightblue/lightgray, main lightblue? 14:25:54 er, there's no lightblue. blue? Magenta? 14:25:56 Cyan? 14:26:02 <|amethyst> huh? 14:26:08 there is a lightblue. 14:26:08 <|amethyst> no lightblue? 14:26:16 oh, reading fail 14:26:24 <|amethyst> you'll need a new etc colour most likely, of course 14:26:29 |amethyst: yeah 14:26:36 |amethyst: I'm trying to pick colors for it 14:26:47 I'd be fine with lightblue/lightgreen, primary lightblue - grey is boring, and I feel like we have too many yellow gods already 14:26:53 though I guess we have two lightblue gods too 14:26:55 idk. 14:27:24 <|amethyst> overlap on the message colour isn't that important 14:27:26 red, white, and blue, the colors of FREEDOM 14:27:38 ha 14:27:46 The colors of colonialism? 14:27:47 <|amethyst> liberty, equality, and fraternity? 14:27:59 <|amethyst> (different order of course) 14:29:37 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:48 lightmagenta. 14:29:50 i m o 14:30:02 Grunt: no other color? 14:30:08 v0v 14:30:12 is lucy just magenta? 14:30:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:30:26 yes 14:30:32 oh 14:30:33 wait 14:30:36 Nemelex 14:30:37 rip 14:30:45 yup 14:30:59 Grunt: time for 256 colours... 14:30:59 I'm open to lightmagenta w/ another color 14:31:00 ya 14:31:03 gammafunk: no, just 27 14:31:07 dang 14:31:08 fr 32 colour 14:31:13 d a n g 14:31:46 gammafunk: from you, I expected "time to remove nemelex" 14:31:57 I lost that fight already 14:32:02 even dpeg abandoned me 14:32:07 tragic... 14:32:19 something something "win-lose perspectives on design decisions" 14:32:29 my nemelex removal winrate is terrible... 14:32:33 (something something "coming from the winner >>>>_>>>>") 14:32:37 something something "you are a sourpuss who tries to turn everything into a negative" 14:32:40 :P 14:33:01 -!- eliana has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:33:13 man I hate sour tastes 14:33:23 I love 'em. 14:33:23 or spicy tastes or bitter tastes my tongue is still that of a kid's 14:33:26 rip 14:33:41 Grunt: there was something i was going to ask you earlier, but you said to ask when you weren't about to leave 14:33:50 PleasingFungus: ask Arrhythmia to tell you about his friend and peas next time you see him in Tiles 14:33:54 *webtiles 14:33:59 peas...!? 14:34:06 he has to tell it 14:34:12 peas and fungus 14:34:18 his 20-something style of narrative is not to be missed 14:35:08 man, I cannot find it 14:35:19 I bet I was gonna ask something really important, too. 14:35:28 -!- Lasty has left ##crawl-dev 14:35:33 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:27 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:31 PleasingFungus: I'm at work 14:36:32 rip 14:36:33 but 14:36:53 reading back, I think I am okay with the idea 14:37:04 re: Wz changes? 14:37:06 -!- ChongLi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:07 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: YourBNC - (https://yourbnc.co.uk)] 14:37:10 can you remind me what the question was 14:37:12 <_< 14:37:15 14:37:25 "can I add Invis to Party Tricks" 14:37:28 o 14:37:39 hey, that was a good idea. 14:37:47 a 14:37:52 tricky idea. 14:37:57 hmmmmmmmmm 14:38:07 I don't know how I feel about it 14:38:09 here's my concern: 14:38:16 ??party tricks 14:38:16 book of party tricks[1/1]: Summon Butterflies, Apportation, Blink, Alistair's Intoxication, Tukima's Dance 14:38:29 it is already a pretty good book 14:38:30 :) 14:38:34 the one in party tricks should make you somewhat transparent and add a little to your ev 14:38:36 >.> 14:38:41 <3 14:38:47 hey 14:38:54 obviously cut out blink when you're adding it 14:38:55 fr: monster invis is less of an interface screw 14:38:56 that sounds like a new version of 14:38:59 phase shift 14:39:02 but that's an oooooold problem 14:39:22 I thought we got marginally better about that problem via showing the disturbance more vaguely recently 14:39:35 yes, |amethyst made good changes 14:39:46 <|amethyst> ? 14:39:49 re monster invis 14:39:51 well I tracked down some things and made some tweaks 14:39:52 <|amethyst> wasn't it doy? 14:39:56 plonk 14:39:56 maybe |amethyst did as well 14:39:58 maybe it was wheals 14:40:02 what did i do? 14:40:05 how recent are we talking? 14:40:05 <|amethyst> or maybe it was gammafunk 14:40:11 so replace blink with phase shift 14:40:12 what *didn't* you do? 14:40:14 yeah I did some work on that a while back 14:40:35 <|amethyst> oh 14:40:36 <|amethyst> elliptic 14:40:38 someone changed it such that the disturbances always appear in the actual tile, rather than just nearby 14:40:39 but it's still not very idea; we'd need better monster AI when the monster is invis 14:40:40 <|amethyst> %git eaeaf20 14:40:40 07elliptic02 * 0.16-a0-747-geaeaf20: Don't expire invisible monster position indicators until the monster moves away. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 12+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eaeaf20ce881 14:40:40 blink is currently in two starting books and party tricks, I think cutting blink from the book and giving it invis is reasonable? 14:40:47 oh, also that 14:41:04 theTower: the book would then be 1/1/3/4/6, which is slightly weird 14:41:11 not mega weird, just slightly 14:41:16 i'm not sure if monsters need to change their behaviour while invisible, imo its more about using the effect itself more intelligently 14:41:22 minorly weird 14:41:31 book of minor weirdness 14:41:33 imo 14:41:36 <3 14:41:37 for example there could be a spell that turns invisible and blinks (and just counts as regular blink if already invisible) 14:41:42 I added unseen_pos and did a bunch of work there..hrm 14:41:47 I shold probably look carefully at that commit 14:41:52 and a monster with that wouldn't have ranged attacks 14:41:58 wasn't even aware that it was done 14:42:00 imo the D&D type of Misleqd 14:42:03 *Mislead 14:42:07 hmmm, monster invis... 14:42:20 where you leave a visible illusion of yourself at your point of origin 14:42:24 <_< 14:42:29 evilmike: give it to boggarts 14:42:30 imo 14:42:39 i suggested that once actually 14:42:42 evilmike: yeah, the problem is that when the monster's position is very easilly knowable, it's just an ev boost and kind of an interface screw 14:42:43 also, did you see I implemented your corpse armour idea? I don't think you've been in here since 14:42:44 cause boggarts were nerfed so hard 14:42:51 lol yeah i saw it 14:42:56 is it actually useful? 14:42:58 ...weren't they buffed 14:42:59 no idea 14:43:01 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:01 The build has errored. (master - a17c66b #997 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43205628 14:43:01 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 14:43:03 well, nerfed, then buffed 14:43:07 theTower: buffed and nerfed and buffed and nerfed 14:43:08 %git :/oggart 14:43:10 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-2475-g8c05a2e: Restore boggarts' accidentally-increased MR (crate). 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c05a2ea7f40 14:43:10 I think 14:43:10 in that order 14:43:13 right 14:43:22 nuffed and berfed 14:43:34 evilmike: I literally just got the spell on a character for the first time 14:43:35 so 14:43:45 I'll try it out and see how it plays in practice 14:43:54 monster invis: sky beasts (flickering, somewhat bad due to encouraging kiting but does establish how monster movements don't really change under invis) 14:44:19 %git 4a7354f 14:44:20 07gammafunk02 * 0.14-a0-3090-g4a7354f: Fix various issues with invisible monster indicators. 10(9 months ago, 8 files, 212+ 74-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a7354f52e5f 14:44:32 dang, 212+ 14:44:37 where are your millimarvins, gammafunk? 14:44:49 yeah that commit was one of the hardest ones I've had to make 14:44:55 <|amethyst> ??git 14:44:55 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=summary 14:44:56 because trackign down that UI stuff... 14:44:56 evilmike: I suspect it may need to have a higher ac per corpse ratio, but I think the fundamentals are sound 14:44:58 <|amethyst> ??git[2] 14:44:58 git[2/2]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:git 14:45:00 ghost moth (fast, has serious range), unseen horror (batty), shadow wraith (slows)... loros! quick, give loros something silly 14:45:02 <|amethyst> hm 14:45:12 uh 14:45:16 loros are already very distinctive 14:45:16 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/club_Preview.gif behold, a complete waste of time!! 14:45:18 <|amethyst> ??gitstats[2] 14:45:19 gitstats[2/3]: http://s-z.org/crawl-stats/ — updated infrequently 14:45:20 :P 14:45:23 <|amethyst> that's what I was looking for 14:45:26 give shadow wraiths something distinctive 14:45:27 imo 14:45:39 Bloax: !? 14:45:41 like af_drain_speed? 14:45:52 shadow wraith (13W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 43-70 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Dam: 2713(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(100), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 772 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:45:52 %??shadow wraith 14:45:59 PleasingFungus: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/club_directions.gif a lot of drawing 14:46:03 make them fast <_< 14:46:15 (then they'd fit into gloorx vloq's level faster?) 14:46:28 idk I've never been intimidated or even interested in shadow wraiths. 14:46:29 <|amethyst> -603 millimarvins for gammafunk 14:46:40 Bloax: huh 14:46:50 they used to be weaker and not have af_drain_speed 14:46:52 I bought http://spritelamp.com/ 14:47:00 god, _update_monster, my eternal nemesis 14:47:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:02 <|amethyst> !learn edit millimarvin s/5/489/ 14:47:03 millimarvin[1/1]: 7.489 net lines of code removed (as of 2014-08-14) 14:47:05 then i tested it out on a giant club just for funsies 14:47:13 <|amethyst> !learn edit millimarvin s/08-14/12-06/ 14:47:13 millimarvin[1/1]: 7.489 net lines of code removed (as of 2014-12-06) 14:47:21 even now though they could be in somewhere where they have a chance of being a threat, perhaps? 14:47:39 maybe 14:47:42 wraith (15W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 22-43 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1313(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(60), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 207 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:47:42 %??wraith 14:48:03 being almost exactly two wraiths strapped to each other isn't that exciting, but at least they have the invis thing 14:48:31 vaults, abyss, crypt, D oods oh D oods would be nice and player scream eliciting 14:48:48 haha 14:49:00 I worry about abyss - I think loros are already there, and they may be too similar 14:49:08 crypt could work and honestly I'm startled they're not there already 14:49:10 likewise d ood 14:49:16 the abyss already has some strong stuff that can show up rarely 14:49:16 well, minus the startlement, I guess 14:49:18 ? 14:49:29 that is a list of where they already are >_> 14:49:31 Bloax: I almost kickstarted that thing 14:49:39 o 14:49:45 I would have but I had no monies when I could. 14:49:45 I meant D oods as in they're extremely rare in the d oods 14:50:00 now i have monies so i've dropped 125 bucks onto it 14:50:00 they're also in 14:50:01 dwraf 14:50:03 *dwarf 14:50:06 oh no 14:50:08 by buying the pro version myself and the hobbyist for ontobro 14:50:11 not dwraf 14:50:22 right 14:50:29 I was going to tar-ify dwarf vaults 14:50:36 I need to finish that 14:50:52 they're quite rare in most of their locations, I think 14:50:55 shadow wraiths 14:51:01 reasonable enough 14:51:09 i think its cool for there to be rare monsters though 14:51:15 -!- XL28DgWn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:19 it would be cool if they were cooler 14:51:23 i think the problem is just, the places where they are rare, they also aren't very noteworthy 14:51:26 yeah 14:51:29 also they are literally invisible 14:51:35 they're kind of Pan gotcha monsters 14:51:36 so you can kill a rare monster and never realize it 14:51:42 (or die to one, and) 14:51:46 ...Pan? 14:51:48 i think there are a lot of monsters where the only reason they are boring is because they are placed on the wrong levels 14:51:50 caught you not wearing sinv! got you! 14:51:58 yeah Pan 14:51:59 gammafunk: you're thinking of lorocyprocas. 14:51:59 through what randlord haunt 14:52:02 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:04 oh yeah 14:52:05 loros 14:52:05 or gloorx right 14:52:06 generally they could just be moved somewhere earlier (e.g. made a very rare D monster) and be cool 14:52:09 without any redesigning 14:52:33 shadow wraiths, is that what's being discussed? 14:52:34 they're currently stuck in D only oods (16-24), maybe that could be raised up two bits 14:53:44 this is a bit of a tangent from my original intent of also noting how often invis shows up in books as well as monster natural traits and usually the books aren't as justified as the natural traits >_> 14:54:19 (I will admit I vaguely contributed to this with those stupid knights) 14:54:27 -!- Xeiph_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:54:33 you mean monster books I assume 14:54:36 yes 14:54:39 shadow wraith (13W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 43-70 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Dam: 2713(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(100), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 772 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:54:39 %??shadow_wraith 14:54:48 oh af_slow 14:54:49 does frederick really need invis. 14:55:00 there was a spellforged servitor plan 14:55:10 I'd say he does not need invis, no 14:55:18 how has that spell worked on randliches, by the way 14:55:25 I fought one that had it once 14:55:27 I ran into it while testing snail vault 14:55:30 it fired ioods at me 14:55:30 i've found invis relevant on fredreck before 14:55:33 which was rude 14:55:37 you generally want to stay the hell out of his LCS range 14:55:43 the servitor stood by immpressively and I finished killing its master 14:55:46 and when he turns invisible, that starts to become a bit ambiguous 14:55:48 ...he doesn't have lcs 14:55:51 but that was just one 14:55:56 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:56 ??boris[lol 14:55:57 boris[2/3]: IRON BOLT DRAIN CRYSTAL SPEAR LOL HI IM BORIS 14:56:06 yeah freddy is very bolt conj heavy, but not lcs 14:56:10 Frederick (03@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 159 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | XP: 3749 | Sp: mystic blast (3d25), b.cold (3d30), invisibility, iron shot (3d36) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:56:10 %??frederick 14:56:14 hmmmm 14:56:24 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3003-g569121e: Backtrackticus is dead, long live Wulndraste (Grunt) 10(2 minutes ago, 23 files, 90+ 77-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=569121e58b6b 14:56:27 Frederick (03@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 159 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 5373 | Sp: mystic blast (3d25), b.cold (3d30), invisibility, iron shot (3d36) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:56:27 %0.12?frederick 14:56:27 oh i guess he changed several versions ago 14:56:35 Frederick (03@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 21 | Health: 159 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 5373 | Sp: mystic blast (3d25), b.cold (3d30), invisibility, animate dead, iron shot (3d36). 14:56:35 %0.9?frederick 14:56:35 well you want to stay out of his attack range, regardless 14:56:36 rip contam chunks 14:56:37 clearly give him force lance 14:56:43 animate dead, haha 14:56:46 Bloax: sounds counterproductive 14:56:48 good cantrip 14:57:00 animate dead is so he can fire bolts of cold through zombies!!! 14:57:08 of course 14:57:11 I vaguely miss the lich book that did that 14:57:16 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:20 needs to be "summon zombies" 14:57:26 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:32 make him a DgDK 14:57:35 well they lost summon undead 14:57:42 !lg * Dg god=yred 14:57:42 No games for * (Dg god=yred). 14:57:50 !lg * Dg s=god 14:57:51 77986 games for * (Dg): 77959x, 26x Nemelex Xobeh, Trog 14:57:58 good old Jr 14:58:04 since summon undead didn't have jiangshi and nwephantasmals and newflayedghosts 14:58:41 I think that DsWn that died to throw->flay->throw was my favorite throw death so far 14:58:53 flaying <3 14:59:05 gammafunk: How was one of those a Trog game 14:59:10 !lg * dg trog 14:59:12 1. test the Chopper (L1 DGBe of Trog), mangled by an orc (a +0,+0 orcish club) on D:1 on 2008-05-27 08:58:58, with 63 points after 386 turns and 0:07:26. 14:59:21 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:28 some bug where you could specify cls in your rc is my guess 14:59:29 so long ago 14:59:54 I still like the bug where you could specify draconian race in your rc 14:59:57 the funny thing is how he managed to splat that on d:1 with trog 15:00:10 !tv * dg trog 15:00:13 1. test, XL1 DGBe, T:386 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 15:00:24 I think he didn't really bother trying to win 15:00:31 wow, that hud 15:00:37 I recall a bug where you could specify monster dr color with the glyph override stuff, is that what you're thinking of? 15:00:41 or was this a different bug 15:00:55 different bug 15:00:55 lol 15:01:04 some good dr bugs! 15:01:16 like the one that made the zot palace mote be all drac monsters instead of water 15:01:20 this guy seems to be trying to win 15:01:25 rip 15:01:31 there've been a number of bugs where you could specify things you couldn't do otherwise. which is also why we have a couple of yaks 15:01:32 monsters with invis books: 2/3 orc wizards (paired with range and either confuse or haste), vampire (paired with confuse), vampire knight (paired with haste and blink close), vampire mage (paired with range and summons), 15:01:37 ??epic bugs[10 15:01:37 epic bugs[10/22]: MarvinPA * 0.13-a0-1343-gad4e203: Don't allow picking a draconian colour in init.txt 15:01:42 gammafunk: ^ 15:01:48 nice 15:02:21 for a brief period, those players that incessently requested being able to choose dr colour were given a great gift 15:02:26 and they probably never realized it 15:02:32 ya 15:02:33 sad 15:02:38 dracknights deepknights necromancer 2/5 wizards 2/5 ogre mages boggart ilsuiw norris frederick boris maurice kirke enchantress 15:02:55 norris 15:03:01 deepknights? 15:03:04 elf 15:03:06 o 15:03:37 geekosaur 15:03:38 none of those seem particularly bad; I'm not sure enchantress really needs invis though 15:03:40 !lg . MDFi log 15:03:41 1. darkli, XL1 MDFi, T:1117: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20130601-042503.txt 15:03:45 Norris (07@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 214 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 36 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 5062 | Sp: brain feed [11!AM], smiting (7-17) [11!AM], invisibility [11!AM], confuse [11!AM], paralyse [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:03:45 %??norris 15:03:57 norris is just a unique I'd like to see replaced/reworked anyhow 15:04:04 torment.................. 15:04:05 I'd like norris to have something consistent to him instead of scattered spells + para + buckler 15:04:06 yep, that was one I was thinking of specifically 15:04:25 huh, !AM 15:04:32 I priestified him 15:04:33 he's a priest 15:04:37 death cult 15:04:48 well I guess that's as justifiable as anything in crawl 15:04:59 (only demons can smite as a spell and not an invo anyway) 15:05:21 apparently demons are Made of Magic 15:05:25 AM is so good vs them 15:05:54 theTower: spellforged on freddie, then? 15:06:00 I can make a patch and test a bit 15:06:05 and lose invis 15:06:10 this may have been one of the factors that made me make ds priests 15:06:19 gammafunk: go for it 15:06:19 still need to sort those out more 15:06:25 alright 15:06:27 gammafunk: yeah sounds fine 15:06:36 i think those ds enemies need to be reworked 15:07:15 chaos champions are pretty mediocre and I've got a plan that rather changes warmongers 15:08:04 !vault uniq_frederick 15:08:05 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l292 15:08:12 aside from the random range on blood saint conjurations I'm pretty fine with the other three 15:11:04 my problem is the "mutation" variants seem pointless. often you just get popcorn demonspawn which have a mutation, but they're all the same enemy that dies quickly in pan, basically 15:11:34 and on the ones with classes, i dont care about the mutation either, because it's the spell set that completely defines the enemy. the mutation is just clutter, both mechanically and in the actual name of the enemy 15:11:51 i would just remove that aspect entirely and keep the "enemy priest" aspect 15:12:16 the base demonspawn were meant to lower the aggravation of infinite pan's common neqoxecs and smoke demons 15:12:24 at least the latter stopped being a problem 15:13:14 the resistance is occasionally vaguely relevant for elementalists who would otherwise take potshots for bolt of cold/fire 15:13:18 (need to enact zigfig and serial demonic plans to also help with that) 15:13:52 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:55 but I can see the argument that simplifying them into a single 'demonspawn' enemy would help player sanity more than it would hurt variety 15:13:56 af_fire and monstrous's pile of hp / no branded or reaching are vaguely noticeable, tortorous and putrid are pretty bad though 15:14:07 evilmike: Do you feel the same way about the color of Draconians in Zot? 15:14:54 well, a breath and a resistance is at least pretty straightforward if even more numbered than ds... 15:14:56 draconians at least have breaths, which tend to be fairly noticeable. people have been arguing for some time that the draconian class/race system should be streamlined if not merged, though. (one class per colour was I believe the suggestion?) 15:14:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:03 and yeah it's simpler 15:15:12 !lm * recent br.enter=depths x=avg(xl) 15:15:13 16232 milestones for * (recent br.enter=depths): avg(xl)=19.86 15:15:21 i think the draconian class/race system works pretty well currently 15:15:38 i don't think "one class per color" would be an improvement 15:15:50 'red draconian has fire. white draconian has ice. torturous draconian has increased something when taking damage?' even the exact mappings (gelid <-> white) are expressed in intentionally more obtuse language 15:16:09 more hp no weapon, af_fire rF++, 10 ac if not hit with fire rC++, rN+ gets might or 5 ev or negated antimagic????, rPois heals when other ds are killed 15:16:16 evilmike: Do you feel the same way about the color of Draconians in Zot? 15:16:34 reaverb, I do not, because the elemental bolts tend to be quite damaging 15:17:02 the demonspawn flavours tend to be rather defense oriented, which is always a bit boring 15:17:23 whereas draconians always have a different attack. except for grey ones, but they make up for it in other areas 15:17:35 I like how sticky flame and flame cloud lost significance as poisonous clouds became harsher >_> 15:18:05 evilmike: Interesting 15:18:21 i'm not against streamlining them to one class per colour, though. 15:18:24 well, it'd be rather detrimental to the classes if one of the mutations was hellfire >_> 15:18:32 but the unemployed draconians in zot are still relevant due to their attacks 15:18:36 unlike demonspawn 15:18:54 * theTower shrugs 15:19:26 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:48 * PleasingFungus also shrugs. 15:20:04 (confession: I was hoping for a sequell echo) 15:20:27 bad idea: one class per color for draconians, but the combinations are differant every game. 15:20:29 Frederick (03@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 159 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | XP: 3749 | Sp: mystic blast (3d25), b.cold (3d30), invisibility, iron shot (3d36) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:20:29 %??frederick 15:20:47 oh, I'm not fond of one class per colour mostly because the classes struggle a little anyway (callers, scorchers) and that already necessitates another three classes 15:21:13 I guess he's not actually Flawless with that ac 15:21:24 solution: remove colours 15:21:24 but massive spikes of damage is his thing,so 15:21:26 <_< 15:21:39 *remove some colours 15:21:51 rip mottled 15:22:03 rip pale? 15:22:16 but the steam resistance! 15:22:30 you could just make their steam hurt more 15:22:36 stealth buff to steam dragon armour 15:22:36 could you 15:22:44 steam shows up in quite a lot of places. 15:22:47 who doesn't have one pip of rF in zot 15:22:52 well, it would be its own cloud type i think 15:22:57 pleasingfungus: no no the steamball impact damage 15:22:58 Mega Steam 15:23:10 and hang, draw & quarter anyone who uses that in a vault 15:23:11 it's pretty high if you don't have the free imunity from one pip actually 15:23:17 merfolk aquamancer (03m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 14 | HP: 52-73 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 913 | Sp: primal wave (3d20), steam ball (3d18), throw icicle (3d23), blink [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:23:17 %??merfolk aquamancer 15:23:17 incredibly steam. almost entirely steam 15:23:34 it's not technically immunity 15:23:34 well, not high, but "existent" 15:23:39 almost entirely immunity 15:23:57 lich (15L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 61-96 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1513(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2795 | Sp: b.cold (3d29), paralyse, sum.greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d34), teleport self [04emergency] / b.corrosive (3d23), slow, invisibility, throw icicle (3d29), crystal spear (3d40) / b.fire (3d29), confuse, haste, b.draining (3d27), sum.greater demon, banishment [04emergency] / mystic blast (3d24), b.cold (3d29), invisibility, animate dead, o.destruction (9d17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:23:57 %??lich 15:24:22 I think we may need to give F-dawg some ac 15:24:26 he is awful squishy 15:24:26 oo, alich randlich fight on crypt:5 15:24:30 well 15:24:33 summon xx and sgd and summon undead 15:24:35 that's a party 15:24:36 give him back his plate armour 15:24:41 that would be ac 15:24:48 would go with the demigod thing, clearly 15:24:49 why did he lose it 15:24:51 demigod stats 15:25:02 because "how do you cast those spells in plate" 15:25:09 because he's fucking frederick 15:25:10 thats why 15:25:13 <3 15:25:25 %git 46b94181bdcf9c810e37c0e6377ed5fee981b7ee 15:25:25 07dolorous02 * 0.11-a0-798-g46b9418: Revert "Revert "Make Frederick's armour one class lighter (scale/chain/splint)."" 10(2 years, 8 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46b94181bdcf 15:25:32 confusing 15:25:34 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141201030207]] 15:25:35 who is? who's fucking frederick 15:27:07 on the vague topic of classes I should test out that upheaval zealot and daeva monk thing some time 15:27:18 ??upheaval 15:27:18 upheaval[1/1]: {Qazlal}'s 2* ability; blasts a small (increasing with Invocations) area around a smite-targeted location with lava, ice, air (like Airstrike), or rubble (earth) damage. Lava can leave lava tiles; ice flash-freezes enemies; air leaves storm clouds; earth can destroy walls. 15:27:57 might make people malign them a bit, admittedly 15:29:21 ...also, I wonder if anybody has noted the dr knight buff 15:33:17 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:11 Escape hatch led to vault blocked off from rest of level w/ deep water 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9304 by Skrybe 15:43:49 <|amethyst> !vault lemuel_reptile_caves 15:43:50 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des;hb=HEAD#l1404 15:43:55 haha, players enraged over Haste nerf, it's so funny (SA) 15:43:55 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:44:32 <|amethyst> dpeg: give it to skalds (but make their book very rare otherwise) 15:45:02 <|amethyst> then more people will play skald 15:45:10 <|amethyst> but rename it to Song of Speed 15:45:15 <|amethyst> Song of Celerity 15:45:55 song of celery 15:46:14 <|amethyst> Song of Celebrity 15:46:36 -!- ON is now known as Guest87644 15:47:07 <|amethyst> I need to either make gitweb colourise, or ctags index, .des files 15:47:15 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-2998-g64dfc15: Remove a useless function argument 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=64dfc157d812 15:47:21 <|amethyst> s/either make/make either/ 15:48:01 Will :wizardry be the new "regeneration? 15:48:38 <|amethyst> make a charms/hexes hardbook 15:48:43 <|amethyst> move haste into there 15:48:58 <|amethyst> (or maybe just charms) 15:49:41 Anyone know offhand which function generates a new level? I want to reduce Wulndraste penance every time a new level is created. 15:50:20 Lasty: Tying "create a new level" with a mechanical change like reducing penance seems really bad. 15:50:45 amethyst: I think it would be better if it was left Haste even if you did this :v 15:50:48 I can just see somebody changing it so levels pre-generate for whatever reason, then being baffled by Wulndraste penance bugs... 15:51:02 I suppose I could tie it to exploration instead. I thought diving to a new level would be more interesting . . . 15:51:07 I see what you mean tho 15:51:29 Feel free to trigger it on diving to a new level, just not on /generating/ a new level. 15:51:56 Awright, so I guess I'm looking for that, then. Hint: new_level() does not only get called when moving to a new level. :p 15:52:54 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:19 I think load_level of files.cc is what you want. 15:55:26 Not the lack of underscore. 15:55:30 s/Not/Note/ 15:55:53 ah, it returns whether it's a new level 15:56:06 of course, that would become buggy if someone started preloading levels 15:56:53 but it looks like other things would break too 15:57:16 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:27 Remove Trog from Berserkers 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9305 by chris 15:58:09 OOOOH 15:58:10 interesting change 15:58:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58:36 that is interesting 15:58:37 an agenda so transparent you could make windows from it 15:58:53 I do not approve of that patch 15:59:07 pfff 15:59:51 theTower: What is this "agenda" ? 16:02:04 it is hard to explain with explaining chrisoelmueller's nihilist metholodogy 16:02:45 and I'm about to do that about as quickly as I'd actually make any effective change in the blah blah blah blah 16:03:26 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:26 The build has errored. (no_backtracking_god - 7eb3d50 #1000 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43209339 16:03:26 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 16:03:38 !learn add reserved_clan_names Nihilistic Methodology [gammafunk] 16:03:39 reserved clan names[6/6]: Nihilistic Methodology [gammafunk] 16:03:47 suiting. 16:04:08 I may register all of those next tournament, undecided 16:07:10 Killed from afar by a spellforged servitor (42 damage) ... with an iron shot ... summoned by Frederick 16:07:13 rip 16:07:28 SA can't decide whether to hate the change for making haste rarer or to hate the change for not removing the haste spell 16:07:41 lol 16:08:05 haste the spell doesn't seem all that problematic to me 16:08:09 i like SA but the thread can be really bad :( 16:08:16 I mean it's usually just not worth it to train charms that much 16:08:21 you all realize that patch is literally a danr idea right 16:08:22 Lightli: clear case: we should wait until the dust has settled. Then remove the spell. That way we get two outbursts of rage for the price of one! 16:08:32 ??danr 16:08:32 danr[1/1]: Has suggested: cooking skill, starting Be with amulet of rage instead of Trog, merging enchant weapon and enchant armour, two-headed ogre species that worships two gods but cannot cast spells. 16:08:50 haste is fine as a spell 16:08:51 free to worship sif and vehumet 16:08:53 !gamesby danr 16:08:54 danr has played 1 game, between 2014-03-10 15:58:06 and 2014-03-10 17:27:46, won 0, high score 3797, total score 3797, total turns 12060, play-time/day 1:04:47, total time 1:04:47. 16:09:02 I mean in all honesty I almost never use haste period 16:09:06 i've seen both players and developers claim the spell is "problematic" but it's never been convincing 16:09:08 We should also decide whether we want to keep Trog as a starting god and if so, who's going to close the ticket. 16:09:10 woah...period? 16:09:10 usually it's just an assumption 16:09:15 like not !haste or /hasting 16:09:30 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 16:09:43 yeah 16:09:44 potions of hasting are probably fine, wands are a bit of an issue 16:09:54 this does not include berserk however, I use that all the time :v 16:10:10 dpeg: I'd love to ditch Berserkers entirely, but I don't think anyone else agrees . . . 16:10:19 does Darkli tend to do the more sensible things of the Lightli/Darkli duo? 16:10:25 But I'd much rather have zealot berserkers than amulet berserkers 16:10:48 obviously make it just a stack of ten potions >_> 16:10:56 Lasty: yes, I know. (I am in favour of keeping them.) That's why we need some decision, lest chris' patch rots for eternity on the tracker. 16:11:17 i do not think berserkers should be changed from their present state 16:11:22 I'd like to think that eoc know that patch was a not-so-subtle slap in the face of the dev team 16:11:22 evilmike: so do I. 16:11:31 it's just he can't join ##crawl-dev to tell us directly 16:11:35 eoc = end of century? 16:11:43 dpeg: chriso's new alt 16:11:45 dpeg: I'm happy to reject the patch 16:11:49 Lasty: cool 16:11:50 maybe not new? it's what he's been using I guess 16:12:31 gammafunk: 16:12:35 !lg darkli 16:12:35 1468. darkli the Executioner (L27 HOBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-12-01 19:28:19, with 1735203 points after 66135 turns and 2:35:42. 16:12:42 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-2999-gb69e976: Give Frederick Spellforged Servitor and armour more befitting a demigod 10(41 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b69e976af729 16:12:42 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3004-ga7d7dd5: Add Wulndraste wrath 10(5 minutes ago, 5 files, 25+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7d7dd541038 16:12:45 no 16:12:48 well 16:13:00 I don't *think* that using Trog means you always berzerk over using haste 16:13:08 in the general sense 16:13:43 oh man 16:13:47 I missed commit 3k 16:13:49 by one 16:14:09 * gammafunk scrambles to find something to change! 16:15:22 commit 3k should be removing the haste spell for maximum outrage 16:15:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:33 (more seriously a minor bugfix) 16:16:15 Haste removal covered up as "Whitespace fixes." 16:18:26 how do you pronounce wunldraste? for some reason it makes me think of german, with the whole w-is-actually-v pronounciation 16:18:38 Title: Bring back Hive! Comment: (vaults) 16:19:07 ok horrible idea 16:19:12 "However those issues aren't more important than giving appropriate defenses to what's supposed to be one of the hardest uniques in the 3 rune game." -- did not realize that Frederick was supposed to be hard! 16:19:32 remove haste spell and wand, replace with a exp recharging evokable that gives haste when used 16:19:51 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:19:54 more inventory pressure are you crazy 16:20:30 I'm still interested in the idea of removing haste spell and wand and replacing it with a player (a)bility that recharges with XP . . . 16:20:48 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-3000-g49e4fd4: Document a function 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49e4fd444f8c 16:20:53 yesssss 16:20:59 oh well 16:21:23 ahahahahah that blatant developer depotism 16:21:37 what can I say. I love depots. 16:21:42 Lasty: I think using haste for allies is a sufficiently interesting thing 16:21:50 e.g. being able to target others with haste 16:21:53 gammafunk: True! Wand/spell of Haste Other! 16:21:55 We should still probably set up an automated Doxygen documentation bot somehow... 16:22:22 well I've been asking about that..wait do you mean one that builds the doxygen html or one that makes doxygen comments? 16:22:30 vaguely reminded of a note on a monster gimmick that paralyzes and hastes multiple allies at once 16:22:34 builds Doxygen html 16:22:46 clearly just attach paralysis to all player haste 16:22:46 yeah, I've been asking about that, but we really just don't have a place to host it 16:22:52 No idea how you'd make one which creates doxygen comments. 16:23:01 yeah, you wouldn't really make that 16:23:08 but I wanted to make sure that's not what you meant 16:23:14 gammafunk: You forgot to document the returns value in that function btw :D 16:23:24 oh 16:23:33 here comes commit 3001 I guess 16:24:10 I very nearly made that commit title "Document a function and don't remove the Haste spell" with body "The Haste spell was not removed." 16:24:14 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I keep forgetting too, but you can use [ci skip] or [skip ci] to tell travis not to do a run for a doc-only commit like that 16:24:14 but reaverb was watching 16:24:41 |amethyst: where do I put that, in the commit message body? 16:24:48 <|amethyst> yeah 16:25:02 can I put it at the end of the message then? 16:25:08 <|amethyst> yup 16:25:12 ok, thanks 16:25:13 <|amethyst> http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/how-to-skip-a-build/ 16:26:06 My true ultra-secret objective for that commit was achieved 16:26:15 but I can fix up the doxygen still 16:27:30 What are the downsides to too many travis-ci builds? False positives? Wasting the travis project's resources? 16:27:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:27:34 frederick, mennas, mara, ...boris, ... 16:27:42 tiamat?... 16:27:58 theTower: What are you listing? 16:28:09 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:28:24 !seen |amethyst 16:28:24 I last saw |amethyst at Sat Dec 6 22:25:13 2014 UTC (3m 11s ago) saying 'http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/how-to-skip-a-build/' on ##crawl-dev. 16:28:26 "what's supposed to be one of the hardest uniques in the 3 rune game" 16:28:33 |amethyst: check the other chanenl 16:28:35 *channel 16:28:39 Sigmund should be on that list. 16:28:43 :P 16:29:02 heh, yeah I should have specified what I meant by hardest 16:29:05 oh, how did I forget sojobo 16:29:24 margery is kind of up there 16:29:27 Margery (04@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 164 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | XP: 5081 | Sp: b.fire (3d32), fireball (3d33) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:29:27 %??margery 16:29:32 22 hd so yeah 16:29:46 don't forget enchantress 16:29:49 ug 16:30:01 she is the true late-game menace 16:30:08 !lg * br=depths s=ikiller 16:30:09 3655 games for * (br=depths): 205x a stone giant, 199x the Enchantress, 148x a deep troll, 140x a lich, 138x a fire giant, 123x an ettin, 121x a frost giant, 111x a titan, 110x a tengu reaver, 104x a deep troll earth mage, 99x a spriggan air mage, 87x, 80x a spriggan defender, 79x a spriggan berserker, 77x a vampire knight, 75x a deep troll shaman, 60x an octopode crusher, 59x Sojobo, 53x an ice d... 16:30:14 pretty incredible 16:30:19 almost there 16:30:29 !lg * cv>=0.15 kmap~~uniq xl>18 s=kmap 16:30:31 where's that unique precentage killer ratio thing 16:30:31 220 games for * (cv>=0.15 kmap~~uniq xl>18): 39x uniq_enchantress, 27x uniq_sojobo, 24x uniq_mennas, 18x uniq_mara, 14x uniq_boris, 14x uniq_jory, 10x uniq_polyphemus, 10x uniq_asterion, 9x uniq_margery, 8x uniq_frederick, 8x uniq_jorgrun, 6x uniq_vashnia, 5x uniq_saint_roka, 5x uniq_khufu, 5x uniq_xtahua, 4x uniq_dissolution, 3x uniq_tiamat, 3x uniq_nikola, 2x uniq_roxanne, 2x uniq_wiglaf, uniq_m... 16:30:54 there's also some deaths in the forest vaults 16:31:03 the ones moved to depths 16:31:03 fair enough 16:31:06 !lg * current trunk depths s=cikiller 16:31:07 588 games for * (current trunk depths): 35x a stone giant, 32x a fire giant, 29x a caustic shrike, 26x a lich, 25x a deep troll, 24x the Enchantress, 17x a spriggan berserker, 16x a frost giant, 16x a spriggan defender, 15x an octopode crusher, 15x a vampire knight, 14x an ettin, 14x a deep troll earth mage, 14x a titan, 13x, 13x a fire dragon, 12x a tengu reaver, 10x a spriggan air mage, 9x an ir... 16:31:11 . 16:31:11 just interested in the immediate comparsion 16:31:25 "quick put spriggans on shrikes" 16:31:34 what, spriggand defenders are beating me 16:31:34 !lg * current trunk depths kmap~~uniq s=kmap 16:31:35 48 games for * (current trunk depths kmap~~uniq): 24x uniq_enchantress, 6x uniq_sojobo, 4x uniq_mara, 3x uniq_jory, 3x uniq_mennas, 2x uniq_saint_roka, uniq_nikola, uniq_jorgrun, uniq_frederick, uniq_asterion, uniq_margery, uniq_boris 16:31:42 spriggan chevaliers 16:31:45 *spriggan 16:31:49 wow that enchantress kill rate 16:31:59 yeah 16:32:06 !lg * current trunk depths cikiller=the_enchantress s=ckiller 16:32:06 24 games for * (current trunk depths cikiller=the_enchantress): 10x a spriggan defender, 6x a spriggan air mage, 4x a spriggan berserker, 3x the Enchantress, a spriggan rider 16:32:08 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:09 . . . 16:32:13 !killratio the_enchantress * current trunk 16:32:15 the_enchantress wins 3.007% of battles against * (current trunk). 16:32:21 hrm 16:32:24 "hooray, air mages went down" 16:32:24 hm 16:32:24 that's off 16:32:31 !killratio sigmund * current trunk 16:32:33 !killratio enchantress * current trunk 16:32:36 sigmund wins 19.79% of battles against * (current trunk). 16:32:37 No battles for enchantress and * (current trunk). 16:32:41 guess not 16:32:48 !lg * xl>18 cv>=0.15 kmap=~hangedman 16:32:48 but 3% seems way low 16:32:49 130. Wendol the Earth Mage (L19 GrEE of Vehumet), slain by a tentacled monstrosity on Depths:2 (hangedman_arrow_trap) on 2014-12-04 19:11:08, with 251590 points after 58088 turns and 5:44:04. 16:32:50 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:01 !killratio enchantress * recent 16:33:03 No battles for enchantress and * (recent). 16:33:05 !killratio the_enchantress * recent 16:33:07 the_enchantress wins 4.925% of battles against * (recent). 16:33:17 1lg * xl>18 cv>=0.15 ((kmap=~hangedman||Vaults:5)) 16:33:38 !messages 16:33:38 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (18h 59m 27s ago): I would never admonish you, unless it seemed like a funny thing to do at the time. 16:33:40 !lm * current trunk br.enter=depths / lg:br=depths 16:33:41 581/4292 milestones for * (current trunk br.enter=depths): N=581/4292 (13.54%) 16:33:49 I generally think of the Enchantress, Sojobo, Mara, and Mennas as being more dangerous than Frederick 16:33:51 13% death rate for entering depths 16:34:10 Lasty: what about now! 16:34:16 PleasingFungus has respect for the elderly, I like that. He might even vacate his tram seat for me! 16:34:25 gammafunk: btw you did not credit me for the servitor idea >:( 16:34:32 yeah, this change makes his damage a lot more spikey, which is kind of bad, but the other uniques at that depths aren't much like that 16:34:34 Grunt: what? 16:34:46 Grunt: you mean post-Frederick upgrade? 16:34:53 Grunt: I didn't not want you at all near my commit 3000 16:35:09 I hasted, swifted myself to outrun the patch executioner 16:35:14 Lasty: yes 16:35:18 oh, coder vanity <3 16:35:40 Grunt: No idea. Seems like a good improvement, but I haven't tried it yet. 16:38:27 Is this Doxygen comment too long? items() really does a lot: 16:38:28 https://bpaste.net/show/51a9dc47433f 16:38:40 "This function does too much." 16:40:38 !nick reaver 16:40:39 No nick mapping for reaver. 16:40:40 !nick reaverb 16:40:41 Mapping reaverb => reaver reaverb 16:40:47 %git --author=reaver 16:40:47 07reaverb02 * 64dfc157d812: Remove a useless function argument 10(79 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=64dfc157d812 16:41:03 Grunt: a little more doxy and a lot less action? 16:41:54 %git --author=gamma 16:41:54 07gammafunk02 * 49e4fd444f8c: Document a function 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49e4fd444f8c 16:42:01 Hmm. 16:42:17 %git --author=a 16:42:17 07gammafunk02 * 49e4fd444f8c: Document a function 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49e4fd444f8c 16:42:40 accurate 16:42:57 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-3001-g3bf792c: Completely document a function (reaverb) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3bf792ca47d3 16:43:16 Grunt: there I gave you credit. 16:43:20 Oh sorry, you're not reaverb 16:43:41 gammafunk: For a moment I thought you were stealing my items() comment to get commit 3001 :D 16:43:48 In part because I'm not Grunt. 16:44:06 Oh, wait, I was the one who said the returns value was missing. 16:44:19 reaverb: 2999 & 3001 is icing on the cake, the real victory is 3000 16:45:19 I could just see somebody writing some small documentation things unlikely to cause conflicts for a while, then setting up a bot to push the commits whenever a whole number turns up. 16:45:27 Anyway I guess I'll push that items() comment >_> 16:45:31 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:45:55 anything to clear up the mystery of items() is welcome 16:47:18 gammafunk: Also were you going to use [skip ci] :D 16:47:39 deep elf knights laugh at singularities for some reason 16:48:13 sorry, I got carried away by the excitement of reading up on function return values 16:48:23 although not reliably 16:48:46 that's one of those things where if travis could somehow see there's no need for a test build 16:49:03 but that's probably asking for a bit too much 16:49:33 hrm, I guess it could know about C++ comments in theory 16:50:34 -!- MrPlanck has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:50:53 I'm suspect travis isn't just C++. 16:51:03 But I bet it isn't a big deal if they use, ex, ccache 16:55:07 well it not just being C++ is not so much the issue; lots of pieces of a dev toolchain from editors to compilers support multiple languages and deal with comments in different languages (like doxygen itself) 16:55:25 but yeah we'll remember to use those tags more as time goes on 16:57:24 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3002-g7ae9a04: Improve items() documentation (makeitem.cc) 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ae9a04a5a60 16:57:24 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3003-ga5c7ff4: checkwhite 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a5c7ff4d3978 16:58:32 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:58:34 gammafunk ^ 16:58:46 That checkwhite error is from your commit >_> 16:58:50 hrm 16:58:59 did my pre-commit hook get disabled 17:02:09 oh it's seems to be just borked 17:02:36 "just borked" ? 17:03:54 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:35 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:54 BORKED 17:05:10 And that's why we've agreed to remove high elf summoners. 17:06:06 PleasingFungus: what is wrong with HESu? 17:06:32 PleasingFungus: Something I was thinking about - what was the thought process behind adding !ambrosia? How did you intend for it to be used? I was thinking Confusion might not be the best "negative" status effect for ambrosia - maybe something like Slow, Sleep, or Paralyze would be better depending on the design goals. 17:06:38 s/adding/adding back/ 17:07:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:06 he's messing up that joke! I'm supposed to say that when he enters! 17:07:11 -!- CcS has quit [] 17:08:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09:52 reaverb: I think that's a good second step. (It's just guesswork, but I reckon that PleasingFungus took a strictly bad item and made it double-edged by adding a positive effect.) Now we're free to tweak the negative effect, of course. 17:10:51 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:14 yeah, that was the general idea, like what happend when making !lig 17:13:34 (well, there was also this previous ambrosia item, which) 17:13:38 true 17:13:56 sure, for this particular item, there was a previous item but 17:14:04 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:04 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:14:06 said previous item was also weird 17:14:10 yeah, but previous ambrosia kept the magic regen when confusion ended. The new one doesn't. 17:14:22 dpeg: the hesu thing was a joke on gammafunk 17:14:25 right, but that's intentional 17:14:37 reaverb: the design goal was "a fixed version of ambrosia" 17:14:41 dpeg: it was not a correct joke actually that completely messed up the canonical form though 17:14:52 * theTower fires gammafunk out of a cannon 17:14:54 dpeg: actually, the joke was very good, and gammafunk is just jealous. 17:15:05 by the way 17:15:11 does ambrosia do nothing for ash 17:15:15 at present 17:15:28 is it properly marked as useless when you have enough piety??? 17:15:34 I believe so 17:15:40 curses 17:15:43 I'd be tempted to allow "voluntary confusion" to pass through clarity, by analogy to berserk 17:15:52 yeah 17:16:12 thought about it earlier but didn't come to a conclusion 17:16:38 does !berserk pass through...what does it pass through 17:16:41 PleasingFungus: Ok, what desirable aspects of ambrosia were you trying to replicate? What situations do you think a player will use !ambrosia? Do you think slowing or sleep would work better than confusion? <_< 17:16:45 oh clarity 17:16:47 I believe it does pass through clarity, yes. 17:17:15 reaverb: I think this line of questioning would be easier to answer if you said what exactly you think is bad about the current implementation 17:17:18 "loot we can hand out in spider's nest" 17:17:31 "added complexity by virtue of existing" 17:17:46 the idea is this: you get hp and mp regen, but you can't do anything else but be confused, so you're in danger while it happens 17:17:46 theTower: who's the deletionist now...? 17:17:46 "hangedman you're horribly negative" <- this one is from pleasingfungus 17:17:51 <3 17:18:04 why hangedman and not theTower or tenofswords? 17:18:17 I understand dpegs complaint about irc nicks vs. real names now 17:18:18 why not 17:18:21 I don't think confusion is a good effect to force on the player. The interface is awkward (Lots of cntrl-diration), etc. 17:18:27 real names 17:18:32 give me a second 17:18:39 reaverb: well most players will just use . 17:18:50 If the idea is for the player to be helpless while getting the regen, I think something like sleep or para would be better. 17:18:51 they're not going to go strolling around with this effect active 17:18:58 (This would replicate the player just pressing .) 17:19:02 reaverb: the idea with this version of ambrosia is that it's a fast-recovery item with a risk; you recover quickly (probably while out of combat), but have to quickly pop !cure if anyone actually shows up. You're right that possibly a harder cost like sleep would work better, though I'd want to fix sleep first. 17:19:07 replicate? 17:19:12 it wouldn't, because sleep has a stab and para reduces ev 17:19:30 s/reduces/almost entirely eliminates/ 17:19:49 that, strictly speaking, counts as reducing 17:19:56 gammafunk: and it only gets worse as you get older! 17:20:16 curses, I can't find gammafunk's Real Name 17:20:21 dpeg: just have enough free memory for the family member names? 17:20:22 PleasingFungus: true that, but paralysis would be clearly overshooting it. 17:20:26 yes 17:20:30 now how will I control him with this voodoo doll to make him do my bidding 17:20:49 we do have *some* precedent for an effect that players will voluntarily take that causes para 17:20:50 you really want to use that on someone productive like Grunt or PleasingFungus 17:21:00 but that effect causes haste, might, +50% hp, and only have a *chance* of causing para. 17:21:05 no that's too conspicious 17:21:12 s/have/has/ 17:21:19 I was thinking Reviving out of DD as the "voluntary para" 17:21:20 theTower: imo get a piece of his hair, or nails 17:21:27 teeth 17:21:31 rude. 17:21:40 I don't mean fresh teeth 17:21:41 reaverb: ah, forgot about that. it's a much rarer case, and also extremely powerful, yes. 17:22:24 slow would move it into the category of effects that could feasibly be used in combat, which changes the item considerably; I think I'd rather avoid that. 17:22:30 Anyway, if players are mostlying going to press . to get rid of the ambrosia confusion, I think using sleep instead would cause players use the potion at similar times. (Although the consequences are slightly differant). 17:22:51 confusion doesn't end when you get hit 17:23:14 confusion requires you to pop a !cure rather than take a damage-multiplied hit. 17:23:16 PleasingFungus: Yeah, I was trying to figure out if you meant it to be used on combat. To make it out of combat Slow would be bad. 17:23:20 I think the former is a lighter cost. 17:23:46 the latter might honestly be more elegant, and is fairly thematic; it's a recuperative sleep! but I would want to fix sleep first. 17:23:47 yeah I could see using sleep over confusion if sleep were made not weird, but I think the current state of affairs is at least reasonable 17:23:55 yeah it's not critical, I think. 17:24:03 agree it'd also be thematically good 17:24:04 so what's stopping you from fixing sleep 17:24:19 the powerful insomia lobby 17:24:30 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:31 !killratio frederick * current trunk 17:24:32 how can we plan without a full knowledge of what every dev has planned for the next two weeks??? 17:24:34 frederick wins 0.383% of battles against * (current trunk). 17:24:36 *insomnia 17:24:37 huh 17:24:42 !killratio frederick * recent 17:24:45 frederick wins 0.618% of battles against * (recent). 17:24:47 dang 17:24:49 wow 17:24:49 he's a monster 17:24:51 I had no idea 17:25:00 hmmmm 17:25:02 !lg * recent ikiller=frederick 17:25:03 29. TALISMASHER the Hoplite (L23 HOFi of Okawaru), blasted by Frederick (iron shot) on Crypt:3 (st_stairs_4) on 2014-12-01 02:30:38, with 427778 points after 52144 turns and 1:38:25. 17:25:10 this will bump his kill ratio a bit but I'm not sure how high 17:25:12 !lg * current trunk ikiller=frederick 17:25:13 5. TALISMASHER the Hoplite (L23 HOFi of Okawaru), blasted by Frederick (iron shot) on Crypt:3 (st_stairs_4) on 2014-12-01 02:30:38, with 427778 points after 52144 turns and 1:38:25. 17:25:20 talismasher 17:25:24 ya 17:25:25 good name 17:25:28 !killratio robin * 17:25:30 robin wins 11.61% of battles. 17:25:36 !killratio xtahua * 17:25:38 xtahua wins 1.256% of battles. 17:25:44 really 17:25:46 heh 17:25:56 well he's just a slightly stronger fire dragon 17:26:00 fire dragon (03D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 77-105 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 20, 13, 1307(trample) | fly | Res: 06magic(60), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1068 | Sp: fire breath (3d24) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 17:26:00 %??fire_dragon 17:26:03 Xtahua (05D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 133 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 35, 1709(claw), 2007(trample) | 04breaks doors, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(180), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 3799 | Sp: searing breath (3d38) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 17:26:03 %??xtahua 17:26:08 yes but I mean higher than freddy 17:26:20 freddy just seems so fragile 17:26:24 reading through the logs: wow, what a terrible commit 3000 17:26:28 you didn't document the return value! 17:26:33 when I was play-testing he died so quickly with hero/finesse active 17:26:41 doesn't matter, got the commit 17:26:43 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-3003-ga5c7ff4 (34) 17:26:45 get good ppl 17:26:53 PleasingFungus: What do you think is bad about players being put to sleep, btw? 17:27:07 do you know what resists sleep 17:27:12 offhand 17:27:26 ...undead? 17:27:37 well, first, yeah, it's not clear whether or not clarity or being undead or w/e works against it or not (partially since it's such a rare effect) 17:27:47 secondly, it doesn't actually reduce ev at all at present 17:27:56 which is bizarre 17:27:57 aizule....that's kind of all I got 17:28:09 aizul, enchantress, satyr 17:28:15 player ghosts! 17:28:19 sort of 17:28:22 Obviously the player wakes up /just before/ the sleep stab, allowing them a chance to doge. 17:28:26 s/doge/dodge/ 17:28:27 and pan lords 17:28:34 reaverb: getting missed while asleep doesn't cause you to wake up. 17:28:35 randliches now to. 17:28:40 s/to/too/ 17:28:41 is there a hex that enchantress doesn't have? 17:28:44 PleasingFungus: Oh, ha. 17:28:45 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 10 (move: 60%) | HD: 15 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 1/28 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 04napalm | XP: 3705 | Sp: dimension anchor, slow, haste, mass confusion, strip resistance, invisibility [04emergency], deflect missiles | Sz: little | Int: high. 17:28:45 %??the_enchantress 17:28:45 ugh I need to functionize these unrandlords 17:28:48 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:54 my goodness 17:28:55 ...oh, she doesn't have sleep 17:29:04 Kind of odd sleep went from Aizul -> a bunch of monsters. 17:29:14 a bunch is a strong term 17:29:24 all of those bunch besides satyrs are random monsters anyway 17:29:51 gammafunk: she doesn't have metabolic englaciation! imagine smite slow that... gets blocked by rC bah 17:30:08 ??metabolic_englaciation 17:30:08 metabolic englaciation[1/1]: Level 5 Ice/Hex. Attempts to slow all non-rC+ monsters in sight. The duration of the slowing is based on power and reduced by monster HD (and unaffected by MR). Slows each target for 3d(pow)/6 - random2(HD) turns. Cold-blooded monsters are slowed for twice as long. 17:30:09 also clearly missing discord 17:30:13 oh it is a hex 17:30:34 also missing tukima's 17:30:42 dazzling 17:30:47 mana viper 17:30:50 there are a lot these days 17:30:53 see, plenty 17:31:00 hexhexhex 17:31:41 bring back spen and make them oods rather than band members and give them discord!!! 17:33:16 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:33:27 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:35:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:40 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:38:39 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:07 in terms of confusion vs. sleep on ambrosia my thoughts with confusion (other than guessing that's waht PF meant by !ambrosia in their todo) was to permit at each turn a choice "do I stay confused and keep regen or do I have enough to do something else" 17:41:17 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:26 that's fair; there are intermediary situations where a potential threat comes into sight, but you may choose to continue regenerating rather than burning a !cure immediately, if you think you have time before they get close 17:43:29 which is a neat dynamic 17:43:33 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:24 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:37 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3005-ge4d3c2b: Add Wulndraste piety gain for exploration and rune-collecting 10(52 seconds ago, 3 files, 18+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4d3c2ba3651 17:44:39 ebering: Yeah, my fear is that it will turn out in practice that choice will normally have an obvious answer either way. 17:44:41 Awright, with that push, Wulndraste is now playable. 17:44:43 that could be unfounded. 17:46:14 Lasty: Hehe, Rune collecting used to give piety with Ash but was removed (although I think the rationale on why it was bad doesn't apply to a no backtrack god?). 17:48:11 hmmmm, that wrath 17:48:18 It's pretty nasty 17:48:44 it is reasonable and straightforward and that kind of makes me wish a lot more wraths just had something straightforwardly mean >_> 17:49:00 Oh, you like it? Great! 17:49:12 of course, that works the other way around >>_>> 17:49:34 Hehe, I like that wrath too. 17:49:44 AltGr key combinations broken on hungarian keyboard layout 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9306 by szoltomi 17:49:50 should try a 17:49:54 hungarian. huh. 17:50:22 should try and chart out all the wraths and think over what would be consistently reaosnable in terms of survivability / nastiness 17:50:46 / randomness|variability 17:50:56 (I suppose by virtue of the floors themselves there's plenty that can go wrong) 17:51:04 that would also help with Lungonu altar desicration :D 17:51:29 pleasingggggggfungussssssssss 17:52:05 you didn't alphabetize or otherwise organize gods.txt when you were adding those wrath descriptionsssss 17:52:20 It just occured to me people do the drawn out name thing for emphasis, but its actually less notable becasue there's no ping. 17:52:37 that is the full joke yes 17:52:46 theTower: we discussed it at the time. 17:52:59 I attempted an alphabetization, but it ended up broken by later revisions. 17:53:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:22 Other devs (I was not at the time a dev) concluded that the descriptions could remain ordered as they were; that is, by enum order. 17:54:07 enum order????? 17:54:25 you are so lucky I have to run out or I would chew you out so much 17:54:27 I'm not sure if they're actually in enum order. 17:54:31 Man, why me? 17:54:40 because 17:54:49 It does have the advantage you just add new gods at the end and perserve the order :D 17:55:21 There's at least one Ru text block that's out of all order 17:55:52 "souvenir" 17:56:45 oops 17:56:48 typo 17:57:38 Should obviously sort the gods things by alphabetical order, except Xom who placed at a random place in each file. 17:59:53 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3005-gb18ca9a: Add Wulndraste piety gain for exploration and rune-collecting 10(16 minutes ago, 3 files, 18+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b18ca9a534d1 17:59:55 Wulndraste doesn't like anything? This is a bug; please report it. 18:00:32 AreBrandon: oh, did I miss that text block? 18:00:36 thanks 18:01:27 Lasty: no problem. Also that last commit broke the build for me 18:01:56 weird, it was a 1 character change 18:02:10 checking it 18:02:54 huh, doesn't break it for me. What error are you getting? 18:03:06 I think it is git weridness actually? 18:03:12 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:15 Oh, btw, Gozag wrath still doesn't have a description. 18:03:54 AreBrandon: I did do a force push, maybe that messed stuff up 18:04:18 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:58 Okay yeah false alarm on the broken build 18:06:07 Weird though 18:08:59 "I've just found the +9 whip of Falaklom {slash, rN+ Dex-4}. 18:09:01 Is this safe to use as an anti-hydra weapon, or will the slash property convert the whips damage to slashing and lead to more heads?" 18:09:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:08 I wonder if there's a better name for whip vorpal than "slash" 18:09:26 My vote is for "of punishment" 18:09:35 i wonder if we really want players who would think that 18:09:35 wheals: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:09:38 !messages 18:09:39 (1/2) |amethyst said (1d 5h 5m 55s ago): both can be lambdas trivially I think; _marshall_item is even better, you can do just bind(marshallItem, placeholders::_1, placeholders::_2, false) 18:09:40 !messages 18:09:41 (1/1) |amethyst said (1d 5h 4m 4s ago): but to use bind you might need to make unmarshall_vector take a function instead of a function pointer 18:09:49 scourging 18:10:07 wheals: I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. 18:10:33 It's a magic property. Why couldn't it convert damage types? 18:10:46 Unless you'd deeply internalized the logic of crawl, there's no reason you'd assume it to be impossible. 18:13:21 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:07 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:16:39 Maybe vorpal weapons could all be called "vorpal" to avoid confusion. 18:16:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:16 Well. "Vorpal" has a meaning outside of crawl (and roguelikes generally); specifically, it implies cutting. 18:17:21 So, basically, that would only make things worse. 18:18:14 If we didn't already use "enchanted" we could use that 18:18:24 sorry 18:18:47 We could get generic and use "magic" -- "a magic sword" 18:19:05 but then it's hard to tell the difference between the two 18:19:19 -!- tcsc has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:32 ~*~*~magic~*~*~ 18:19:50 "heavy" 18:20:33 Lasty: btw Wulndraste the Wayfarer should not have Wayfarer as a skill title; "Traveler" is probably better for the skill title 18:20:36 :) 18:20:40 "fine" -- "a fine sword" 18:20:48 oh, right 18:20:51 thanks 18:20:58 i forgot about that 18:21:07 (I'm going to draw a flag-altat when I get home) 18:21:12 *flat-altar 18:21:13 ??global todo 18:21:14 I don't have a page labeled global_todo in my learndb. 18:21:14 er 18:21:15 wow 18:21:25 ??good projects if you can hack mad code 18:21:26 I don't have a page labeled good_projects_if_you_can_hack_mad_code in my learndb. 18:21:27 * Grunt flattens the altar like a pancake!!! 18:21:42 ??# 18:21:42 spell power[4/5]: Got bars (#)? You have at least 0, 10, 15, 25, 35, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200. 18:21:44 ebering: look for implementables on Mantis :) 18:21:57 cigotuvi's update: absolutely & completely useless at very low spellpower 18:22:03 actually I think our implementable list is lacking right now 18:22:27 despire being very long 18:22:30 despite 18:22:33 Grunt: yes, at some point I stopped adding there (and others too)... it felt like it was aborted by everyone :( 18:22:48 certainly not for a shortage of good topics 18:23:23 a lot of them are vague, if you don't know the codebase well or don't have much design experience it is hard to solve them well 18:25:07 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:26:50 Would anybody mind if I alphatized gods.txt? 18:27:09 I wouldn't. 18:28:19 It is difficult to imagine anyone minding. 18:28:39 Yeah. the Shining One after Sif Muna? 18:29:14 I guess Lasty might because this will almost certainly cause a conflict with W-whatever 18:30:15 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:24 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3005-g9b48b4d: Add Wulndraste piety gain for exploration and rune-collecting 10(47 minutes ago, 4 files, 24+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b48b4de20e2 18:30:24 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-3006-g0714519: Update Wulndraste piety titles 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=071451949f20 18:31:32 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:32 can anyone reproduce #9303? it works fine for me here 18:31:50 not exactly a hard conflict to resolve 18:32:08 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:19 I've just had an idea: Acidic Dragons: Dragons which breathe acidic clouds, or shoot corrosive bolts, and when butchered give ADA, which gives rCorr 18:33:18 I can't reproduce the issue either, wheals. Note that the reporter says "shift direction" 18:33:27 maybe they don't realize that it's ctrl-direction 18:33:31 in his comment he claims he did ctrl- 18:33:35 oh 18:33:56 maybe there's something special about the case, though 18:34:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:00 like allies nearby 18:34:13 hmm, perhaps 18:34:15 hm, works then too 18:34:25 %git :/[Ww]ebtiles 18:34:25 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-2954-gc3228e8: Really fix webtiles sparkles. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3228e8babd0 18:34:34 wait 18:34:36 webtiles 18:34:37 nope 18:34:50 still can't reproduce it 18:34:50 !bug 9303 18:34:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9303 18:35:01 if they're in chrome 18:35:04 ctrl-direction won't do anything 18:35:05 no, this says console 18:35:06 ever 18:35:07 oh 18:35:10 where 18:35:10 looks in advanced 18:35:15 cao console 18:35:18 huh 18:35:19 ok then 18:35:23 v0v 18:35:30 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3004-g4b3e9e2: Alphabetize dat/descript/gods.txt 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 351+ 351-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b3e9e2d9786 18:38:22 ...wow duvessa thanked a bloax post 18:38:28 he's a crafty one 18:38:33 Is it fine to remove the special Lava Orc blurb (supressing heat aura) from the Beogh desciption or should I just put a comment w/TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 18:38:43 gammafunk: where? 18:38:53 reaverb: it's a game! you have to find it! 18:39:42 I think I'll just remove the Lava Orc thing since I just remembered they were never in stable. 18:40:01 reaverb: yeah, in generall you only really need to tag something if it gets marshalled to a save 18:40:13 or if somehow it's removal would break crawl 18:40:15 wellllllll 18:40:20 right now that behaviour is still present 18:40:26 for existing lava orcs 18:40:31 Yeah, ^ 18:40:38 well I don't think that's much of an issue 18:40:41 ^ 18:40:45 ^^ 18:40:49 I'm mostly asking for future reference. 18:41:06 "Is it OK to remove this low utility thing that can be completely gone on tag version bump" 18:41:29 yeah my personal feeling is that if it doesn't cause a crash to do so, it's fine 18:41:33 but I'd defer to other opinions 18:41:51 do what? Leave it or remove it? 18:41:55 :D 18:42:07 reaverb: how would leaving it in cause a crash? :p 18:42:27 Oh, I guess that's true. Guess I'll remove it then. 18:42:40 as PleasingFungus would say, go with your heart 18:43:10 DarkFungus would probably say something much more sinister fwiw 18:43:17 -!- PleasingFungus is now known as DarkFungus 18:43:24 LET DARKNESS AND CHAOS REIGN 18:43:27 ALL WILL BURN 18:43:30 no! no! 18:43:38 HA 18:43:40 HA 18:43:41 HA 18:43:46 -!- DarkFungus is now known as PleasingFungus 18:45:15 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:43 oh man 18:45:55 you know that feeling when you wonder why your code refuses to work 18:45:58 hm, PF would make a fine overlord indeed! 18:46:02 and then you remember to compile 18:46:23 hurts you right in the feels when that happens 18:46:35 I been there. 18:46:40 not in a while, thankfully. 18:46:42 dpeg: <3 18:48:16 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:48:45 I've just had an idea: Acidic Dragons: Dragons which breathe acidic clouds, or shoot corrosive bolts, either of which corrodes equipment, and when butchered give ADA, which gives rCorr or rAcid 18:48:46 Obviously make a git commit hook which changes some init.txt variable to show you whenever you fail to compile. 18:49:30 CrawlOffline|Jho: The message sent correctly the first time :D 18:49:58 oh thank goodness 18:50:08 i had this awful sense of deja vu 18:50:21 Oh, I thought it didn't 18:50:24 sorry 18:52:51 CrawlOffline|Jho: I don't think there needs to be symmetry for every enemy type in the game, the lack of an acid dragon is fine. I don't think every game needs an ensured source of rCorr body armour. Do acidic clouds already exist? Not sure what the benefit of being a cloud is. 18:53:14 rod of clouds can do acid clouds 18:53:59 Also, we already have a very large number of dragons. 18:54:46 and dragon armors 18:54:54 and dragon spells 18:55:08 (Maybe reduce the spawn rate of dragon armours since we have more of them ???) 18:55:19 the what? 18:55:29 As in, butchering is less likely to result in a hide. 18:55:45 reaverb: more dragons means more *types* of dragons 18:55:53 the armours they make are not the same 18:56:14 Also, there are, statistically, zero quicksilver dragons in crawl. 18:56:18 the actual number of dragons placed has not changed 18:56:23 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:24 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141201030207]] 18:57:30 !send evilmike_quicksilver_bait PleasingFungus 18:57:30 Sending PleasingFungus to evilmike_quicksilver_bait. 18:57:31 shadow dragon hides will be fairly common, but that armour is only beneficial for a small number of builds 18:57:37 ??shadow_dragon_armour 18:57:37 shadow dragon armour[1/1]: 10AC, 15 ER, Stlth++++ (Stlth+ compared to robes). Can be created by enchanting a shadow dragon hide. (0.16+) 18:57:56 Ok, those are good points. 18:58:11 didn't realize how rare quicksilver dragon armour was. 18:58:53 MDA, SwDA, SDA, and FDA are the hides that see a significant amount of use 18:59:20 IDA I guess gets some use, but it's hard to justify the rF- for many characters 18:59:21 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:22 SDA is steam or storm? 18:59:29 oh right forgot steam 18:59:30 quickSilver 18:59:42 dang S dragons 18:59:55 !send gammafunk the (S)erpent of Hell 18:59:55 Sending the (S)erpent of Hell to gammafunk. 19:00:11 fr: SoH drops Hell Dragon Armour 19:00:16 or a hide, I guess 19:00:58 fr: rename fire dragons to scorch dragons. And ice dragons to shard dragons. And golden dragons to silver dragons. And iron dragons to steel dragons. And quicksilver dragons to silvercommaquick dragons. After that, I think we're all perfect. 19:01:21 ice dragon could also be renamed to shiver dragons 19:01:27 !tell PleasingFungus I don't think the cloud AI fix is completely correct 19:01:27 ebering: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 19:01:30 mottled to sizzle dragons 19:01:39 Or sticky dragons 19:01:46 oh, that's good 19:02:04 wheals: Do you think it would be good to removing Vp having partial dispel undead resistence would be good? Just since you brought it up in that Tavern thread. 19:02:16 i don't really care 19:02:18 Really there's a lot of room to improve dragon clarity, and I think this proposal goes a long way towards resolving the existing issues 19:02:38 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0/20141125180439]] 19:03:04 have you ever been spooked by a hill giant 19:04:29 That question wasn't properly revised. 19:04:29 "Do you think it would be good to remove Vp having partial dispel undead resistence?" 19:04:52 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:35 wheals: did this send: "Do you think it would be good to remove Vp having partial dispel undead resistence?" 19:07:43 yeah 19:07:52 hrm 19:08:03 as i said, i don't think it's a big deal either way 19:11:23 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:53 -!- reaverb2 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:53 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:37 -!- reaverb1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:39 theTower: as a vault guy, what do you think about making Elf out of stone 19:17:32 i suppose i ask to some extent because, besides the obvious and intended effect of removing killholes as a strategy there, this would have the effect of knocking down the distinction between the level and the vault itself 19:17:55 which seemed like it could be good or bad 19:19:07 also since you did something similar with the V:$ external corridors 19:19:49 if your client even lets you hear my yammering 19:19:54 Changing all unseen tiles to stone also removes killholes 19:21:26 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:04 (Actually not for diagonal passages) 19:24:17 the Elf layouts do have those fairly often 19:27:10 -!- reaverb2 is now known as reaverb 19:36:15 Gozag wrath text: https://bpaste.net/raw/71405afe5bb6 19:36:36 It's probably better than the nothing we have now, but I feel like it could be improve >_> 19:38:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:39:41 !tell PleasingFungus actor_cloud_immune uses is_firey and is_icy for cold/flame cloud resists, even though there are non-fire fire immune monsters (hell hound). Patch on mantis changes this to the appropriate res_call for monsters (who get cold/fire immunity at +++) 19:39:42 ebering: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 19:43:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:13 -!- eagle77 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:39 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:46:43 Non-firey flame cloud immune monsters won't enter flame clouds 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9307 by ebering 19:46:45 Isn't it Fiery? 19:48:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:57 Ok, I guess I'll push the Gozag wrath text now. 19:49:59 !send despair dpwg 19:49:59 Sending dpwg to despair. 19:50:17 !send /dev/null typos 19:50:17 Sending typos to /dev/null. 19:50:36 (the d in dpeg stands for despair) 19:52:30 does the p stand for pain? 19:53:21 peg -> player-ending god 19:53:44 So his name stands for despair player-ending-god? 19:55:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:03 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:59 it's like how SGrunt stands for SGrunt Grunt 20:01:57 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3005-gb588ef0: Remove a special Lava Orc line in the Beogh description 10(86 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b588ef0fd1a0 20:01:57 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3006-g0a461d4: Don't reduce Dispel Undead damage for non-hungry vampires 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a461d48c302 20:01:57 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3007-g2c7a338: Add some text for Gozag wrath 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c7a338eb271 20:03:26 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:06:48 I have a suggestion for gozag wrath: How about Gozag enchants your gold so as to make the monsters that attack you have a chance to berserk against you in their greed 20:07:28 he does already 20:07:31 make the berserk 20:07:33 *them 20:08:00 He does? 20:08:23 Oh in the potion effects 20:08:23 yeah, G gives them !berserk 20:08:44 The undead can't use them right? 20:08:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:09:09 I'm also confused about this line: Former followers will find that any new items in the dungeon may be bought for an insultingly low sum, 20:09:15 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:09:16 Does that mean I get a discount? 20:09:19 no 20:09:19 right, undead can't go berserk 20:09:22 Items can be replace with a small amoutn of gold. 20:09:28 it means when you first try to pick it up, it can be replaced with gold 20:09:29 undead are too apathetic 20:09:32 Ah 20:09:36 can't give enough fucks to get mad 20:09:40 except vampires 20:09:40 So you find 12 ! heal wounds, 2 potions are replaced with 5 gold. 20:09:49 Ah 20:10:03 (That example happened in Wiz-mode) 20:10:04 So most undead can't use potions of any kind right? 20:10:14 only mummies 20:10:30 vampires can use potions but I think get half benefits from healing potions when near bloodless or lower 20:10:34 ghouls can use potions 20:10:34 I'm sad, I thought the "insultingly low sum" was both clear and flavorful <_< >_> 20:10:49 it was to me 20:10:53 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 20:11:03 Well, it was confusing because I thought it meant that *I* can buy said items 20:11:43 Maybe make it so that it says: "Gozag can buy items at a insultingly low sum" 20:11:44 may be appropriated 20:11:49 may be requistioned 20:11:52 buy items from you 20:11:58 Lightli: i think that was removed 20:12:16 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:23 maybe "transformed" ? 20:13:00 or "exchanged" instead of "bought" 20:13:00 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:13:13 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 20:13:33 or rephrase it to use the active voice, so "Gozag may buy" 20:13:40 though that's annoying since you can't use pronouns 20:13:50 Why not? 20:14:57 anyways, would a exp rechargable haste source to replace wands of hasting be good? 20:15:08 (I'd try to code it but I can't code) 20:15:31 What do you mean exp rechargable? 20:17:22 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:17 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:26 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:28 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:32 Sorry about my unstable connection 20:19:41 What do you guys think of the slightly modern elements in the Gozag wrath text (Like "business partners") 20:19:48 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:10 i like the corporate speak 20:20:17 it gives gozag distinct flavor 20:20:47 -!- glamas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:59 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:39 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23:43 !tell PleasingFungus imo rewrite the Gozag wrath text if I don't get to it first 20:23:43 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:24:02 (sorry, it reads pretty clunkily right now) 20:24:13 Yeah, I'm not offended :D 20:24:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:25:10 clinkily 20:25:22 -!- Guest87644 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:33 It kinda fits with the no actual time in history crawl represents 20:25:43 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:25:53 We don't know what the world is like outside, outside of equipment 20:27:17 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:20 CrawlOffline|Jho: at this point it is well-established that I cannot spell 20:30:35 Also, I would think that Gozag would hire hitmen to kill you if you abandon him 20:31:19 Gozag summoning monsters instead of just buffing them has been suggested. 20:32:06 even more thematic: very expensive Mercenary draws 20:32:38 Or maybe make it so that if you don't pay him a certain amount, he will summon monsters (kind of like mercenary card, except you don't get the mercenaries 20:32:54 And maybe make it so that the alchemy and mercenary cards cost alot more 20:33:02 *alchemist 20:33:27 incrasing gold cost is a bit too minor IMO 20:34:27 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:27 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:35:19 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:36:33 I just thought of something, how about we change how you lose penance with Gozag, instead of it being xp based, it should be that you have to pay off your penance or debts so to speak 20:36:38 Oh, this reminds me: What is the design purpose of Gozag increasing prices over time? The longest back I've trace it is to the original design doc, where it has no justification >_> 20:36:51 With actual gold instead of time 20:37:05 CrawlOffline|Jho: Sounds like it would either encourage not picking up gold or be instant. 20:37:35 And the amount of gold can be in the thousands 20:37:49 it's because your cash inflow rate also increases over time 20:37:53 i think 20:38:14 Does gozag affect how much gold you get via acquirements? 20:38:23 No, why would it? 20:38:45 I was just wondering 20:39:55 Or instead of gold, make it so that he will only be satisfied with items, the more valuable, the more penance he will lift 20:40:17 item sac was removed from Nemelex for a reason. 20:42:14 reaverb: what was that reason. too fiddly? 20:42:22 and annoying? 20:42:27 (because it was annoying) 20:42:52 because it was insanely annoying, yes. 20:43:12 Also it did nothing but if an item could give you any advantage you probably didn't sac it. 20:43:18 s/but/because/ 20:43:38 Well I guess it made Fe/Sp better Nemelexites. 20:45:11 I was thinking more along the lines that it *has* to be a valuable item 20:45:16 You can just sacrifice shit 20:45:35 even then you just sacrifice valuable items you don't care about 20:45:46 like a +8 GSC of speed if you're using a +15 GSC of speed 20:46:01 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:31 Valuable being along the lines of !experience, ?aquirement, ?beneficial mutation, ?brand weapon 20:46:40 Stuff that would actually matter 20:46:56 Randarts that have lots of positive things, stuff like that 20:47:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:13 Heal wounds, cure mutations, curing 20:49:41 Ping? 20:50:35 pong 20:50:50 !learn add ping pong 20:50:51 ping[1/1]: pong 20:50:52 ping?? 20:50:53 I would sac curemut 20:50:53 pong 20:50:59 On any char 20:51:25 CrawlOffline|Jho: Special casing a bunch of specific items to sacrifice to reduce wrath is really complicated compared to, say, making Gozag wrath work like any other god. 20:51:30 Ok 20:52:13 I guess I wasn't thinking along the lines of how hard it is to code, which is kinda indicative of how much coding experience I have which is 0 20:53:03 It's complicated to design, let alone code 20:54:28 you'd have to decide specifically which items 20:55:09 Well one can just post a poll/survey on tavern asking on what items players find important 20:55:19 But that probably wouldn't work very well 20:55:23 Why does gozag wrath have to be bad, anyway 20:55:33 ? 20:55:44 Why not make it something you can just pay off 20:55:48 Jafet: It has to be really bad because you get the duplication ability. 20:56:15 So there needs to be strong disincentive to not join the god and then leave for another god. 20:56:43 ^ might still be optimal for mummies, /maybe/ other speices? MarvinPA used to do that. 20:56:50 If it's not a consumable it could be disappeared 20:56:56 I guess you could duplicate experience 20:57:12 I don't understand the signifigance of a duplication ability, like would one just duplicate !exp or ?aquirement? 20:57:14 That sounds rather complicated :D 20:57:42 Of course I play .15 stable, so I don't have much experience with Gozag 20:58:40 Or gozag could take the duplicated thing back (if it still exists) to reduce wrath 20:59:05 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 20:59:54 -!- Amnesthesia|Else is now known as Amnesthesia 21:03:01 Tentacle connect failed error with Summon Forest 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9308 by RBrandon 21:05:02 Grunt: on my m&f using FoAK I received the following from the beastmaster end: +8 scale mail of Jujeucku {Str+3 Dex+5}, manual of m&f, ?acquirement 21:07:18 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:18 The build passed. (no_backtracking_god - a7d7dd5 #1008 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43219743 21:07:18 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:07:27 merely a pass 21:07:32 no A+ for lasty 21:17:19 dang. 21:18:16 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:59 Oh, it seems that if you drink enough !ambrosia to get your duration over the hard cap for confusion duration (40 turns) you can actually get the Ambrosia status without confusion. 21:21:50 That would probably be "exploitable" (you'd get an effect similar to the Elixer card I guess) if you had a dozen !ambrosia somehow. 21:24:09 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:26:31 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 21:26:42 Oh, hmm, it ends on the Ambros ends on the next turn if that happens. 21:28:20 Lasty_: you missed a break in the second-to-last chunk in 9b48b4d 21:29:51 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:37 Hey Patashu! Long time no see 21:30:45 Well, no ping I guess >_> 21:33:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:19 rip <_< 21:33:21 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:47 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:39:19 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:14 -!- shammancer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:51 -!- link_108 has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:10 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:17 how much HP/MP do you get from an ambrosia quaff 21:51:32 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 21:52:24 ??ambrosia 21:52:24 potion of ambrosia[1/1]: Gives 3-10 turns of confusion + a hp & mp regen effect (3-5 of each per turn). The regen depends on the confusion; clarity blocks both. New in 0.16, replacing !confusion. 21:53:10 Lightli: ^ 21:53:16 Hmm, it support no device heal. 21:53:17 so 9-50 HP/MP total 21:53:25 Yeah. 21:53:57 reaverb: I think the confusion part and the fact it's basically regeneration means it's probably fine with that 21:54:45 Lightli: To be clear, I mean no device heal reduces ambrosia heal. I was suprised that was the case. 21:54:53 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:56 oh 21:55:10 does it affect the MP portion though 21:55:13 No. 21:55:46 -!- Sorbius has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:21 s e C r e T 21:57:25 o v E r P o w E r e D 21:57:34 the E c o CO me me Ba CK be G e gi I N s 21:57:47 fa C E e to t t H EH e gl O r y O f n 0 tA I l.. 21:57:52 Hmm, it generates MP and HP at the same rate, that should probably be changed. 21:57:57 Brannock: ??? 21:58:00 I'm in the wrong channel 21:58:01 Sorry. 21:58:16 Esports, you know how it goes 21:58:19 -!- AltReality has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:48 !send Andor Drakon Brannock 21:58:48 Sending Brannock to Andor Drakon. 21:58:48 so when do we make crawl esports 21:59:09 Brannock: For a second I thought you were going to explain why ambrosia was secretly overpowered :D 21:59:24 It's pretty strong. It's basically turbocharged rest 21:59:39 Very good in hell, good in situations where you know you don't have long to rest 21:59:42 Lightli: Isn't sudden death challenge basically that >_> 21:59:57 not enough millions tuning in to watch 22:00:42 Would a lambda be approprite to generate a stochastic constant twice? What about a dice_def? 22:04:20 Oh, hmm. 22:04:34 dice_def can't do that. 22:04:51 Lightli: that's just because sudden death championships weren't in vegas live 22:13:15 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:20 you think that is secretly overpowered, you missed 77ee436 22:14:26 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:55 hehe. 22:15:13 todo: grunt_fountains_of_olympus 22:15:21 Of course I had no idea what that did because PleasingFungus gave it a bad commit message. 22:16:24 * reaverb is mildy irritated there is no good emotion to show mild irritation. 22:16:35 :| 22:22:55 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:28:08 so why is SA so up in arms about Wizardry 22:28:14 it's nothing remotely important 22:28:40 So I don't suppose a crash report from the Wulndraste branch would go on mantis 22:28:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:29:44 Direct it to Lasty, probably. 22:30:20 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3008-g8433e14: Make the MP and HP regeneration of !ambrosia independant 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8433e1452e91 22:31:27 I'm sad that the Crawl thread gained the SA account requirement just before what is apparently the most amsuing incident there in months. 22:33:42 I think I can safely say that the decision leading up to it wasn't 22:33:43 !glasses 22:33:44 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 22:33:44 hasty. 22:33:57 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:34:42 !tell Lasty It seems that the Wulndraste build causes a segfault on going down the stairs. I have the crash log and save but the crash log doesn't say much besides segfault and it happens consistently anyway. 22:34:43 AreBrandon: OK, I'll let lasty know. 22:35:05 Lasty_: ^ 22:35:22 ? 22:35:41 ?? 22:35:44 ??? 22:35:47 ???? 22:35:52 ????? 22:36:14 ?????? 22:36:16 -!- kipster has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:22 ????? 22:36:33 ???? 22:36:37 ??? 22:36:38 ?? 22:36:41 ? 22:36:41 22:36:55 22:36:57 W already had a segfault fixed :D 22:37:14 ??wulndraste 22:37:14 I don't have a page labeled wulndraste in my learndb. 22:37:26 what does he do 22:37:38 (I know about the no-backtracking conduct, just not his actual powers0 22:37:38 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:41 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:11 Basically robust and energetic 3 22:38:15 for a start. 22:38:55 reaverb: I am on a build of the latest commit though :s Or you mean a different one? 22:38:57 wow 22:40:19 !tell Lasty_ It seems that the Wulndraste build causes a segfault on going down the stairs. I have the crash log and save but the crash log doesn't say much besides segfault and it happens consistently anyway. 22:40:20 AreBrandon: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 22:41:05 AreBrandon: a different segfault presumably. 22:42:49 None of these commits describe fixing a segfault but IIRC history has been extensively modified on that branch. 22:43:26 !tell Lasty_ It also crashes going up the stairs on all upstairs except D:2->D:1 22:43:26 AreBrandon: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 22:43:42 Which is interesting 22:44:05 It loads the game on the other side of the stairs also 22:44:29 It might just be "segfault is random" 22:44:53 Well it happens every time 22:45:31 "except D:2 -> D:1" 22:45:45 presumably Lasty tested changing levels at least once so. 22:49:08 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:49:25 oh does wulndraste have a playable branch yet? 22:49:31 maybe W isn't quite ready 22:49:32 NOPE 22:49:42 does grunt have a playable branch yet? 22:49:48 maybe sgrunt isn't quite ready 22:49:52 I've had lots of branches. 22:50:03 How playable they are remains to be seen. 22:50:18 gammafunk: Not on a server, no. 22:50:29 Would prob be good to remove the seg faults first. 22:50:42 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:50:42 FR: god of segfaults 22:50:57 Segfaulticus 22:51:14 Sulndraste 22:51:17 <3 22:53:51 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:51 The build has errored. (master - a5c7ff4 #1011 : reaverb): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43222796 22:53:51 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:54:41 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:54:41 The build has errored. (no_backtracking_god - e4d3c2b #1012 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43225957 22:54:41 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:55:47 g a s p 22:56:35 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 22:57:09 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:09 The build has errored. (no_backtracking_god - b18ca9a #1013 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43226800 22:57:09 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:58:05 <|amethyst> where are those commit hashes coming from? 22:58:50 clearly travis is hashed 22:58:51 <|amethyst> was there a force push or something? 22:59:00 yes 22:59:03 <|amethyst> oh 22:59:10 oh 22:59:15 [07 00:03] AreBrandon: I did do a force push, maybe that messed stuff up 22:59:15 There was a force push on backtrack but not on master. 22:59:17 lllaaassstttyyy 22:59:20 <|amethyst> maybe remove the travis.yml if you're going to do that 22:59:31 <|amethyst> though I guess it's too late by that point 22:59:38 <|amethyst> would have to remove it beforehand 22:59:39 Force push breaks travis-ci? Hmm. 22:59:46 <|amethyst> not "breaks" exactly 22:59:53 <|amethyst> but "causes a build error" 23:00:13 <|amethyst> since the commit is gone by the time the CI run happens 23:00:20 -!- reaverb is now known as travis-ci 23:00:26 heh 23:00:31 <|amethyst> I have to imagine that nick is registered 23:00:42 -!- travis-ci is now known as reaverb 23:00:45 <|amethyst> does it really not even stay logged in? 23:00:46 !death travis-ci 23:00:46 Death has come for travis-ci... 23:00:52 Time traveling Maurice (or a message order glitch) 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9309 by _jordan_ 23:00:58 <|amethyst> I'd figure it would stay connected to IRC and just leave/join the channels 23:01:22 <|amethyst> I guess that depends on how many different networks people use though 23:01:27 Yeah. 23:01:52 <|amethyst> FR: move the development channel to efnet 23:01:54 <|amethyst> or undernet 23:02:00 <|amethyst> (please don't) 23:02:01 that would be underhanded 23:02:07 and effed up 23:02:18 !send Dianora |amethyst 23:02:19 Sending |amethyst to Dianora. 23:02:24 rip. 23:02:29 <|amethyst> dal makhnet 23:02:47 BLOOD AND SOULS FOR MAKHNET 23:03:49 By the way, has travis-ci ever detected and actual build error? 23:03:53 Sure! 23:04:22 travis has caught mistakes that I wouldn't have noticed myself. 23:04:26 |amethyst has been in that boat too. 23:05:02 Hmm, what mistakes? 23:05:36 In my case, a particular combination of build flags that caused errors. 23:05:43 In |amethyst's case, the build not working at all >_> 23:05:45 |amethyst is in a boat? 23:05:50 I think I've also had it turn up a segfault or three for me. 23:05:56 <|amethyst> More of a raft 23:05:56 Ah. 23:06:51 <|amethyst> https://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/jobs/42453618 23:06:52 My pings have just been 100% false positives, I guess its because I'm less active (and I've accidently broke the build before but that just hasn't happened since travis went up) 23:07:30 <|amethyst> Though I've never seen "the build has errored" be real 23:08:28 <|amethyst> but AFAICT there's no way to tell travis to distinguish between "errored" and "broken"/"failed" in notifications 23:08:31 it's always been 23:08:32 in error? 23:08:36 <|amethyst> I mean, other than the message 23:08:43 <|amethyst> well, there was an error 23:08:52 <|amethyst> but either it wasn't our fault, or it was a force push 23:09:06 actual compile errors are relatively unusual with crawl in any case, and some of us catch those pretty quickly (I often pull and rebuild locally after every commit >.> ) 23:09:36 <|amethyst> I usually build after every commit, but I don't usually do more than one flag combination 23:09:43 most of the ones that seem to happen are windows specific, and travis-ci doesn't (currently) do that for us 23:09:49 <|amethyst> hm 23:10:06 not sure if it supports msysgit anyway for windows (have not checked) 23:10:06 <|amethyst> we probably could convince it to do so 23:10:18 including the necessary gcc upgrae 23:10:21 <|amethyst> well, the official Windows builds are a cross-compile 23:10:34 <|amethyst> so it would depend on whether than mingw version is in a PPA anywhere 23:10:41 <|amethyst> s/than/that/ 23:11:22 <|amethyst> I wouldn't bother with an actual Windows build unless they're going to support MSVC (and I'm sure you need some enterprise license to even think about doing that) 23:11:41 <|amethyst> s/you/they/ 23:12:03 <|amethyst> mac build on travis would be nice 23:12:18 <|amethyst> they do have a mac build env but I haven't looked into it 23:12:19 (todo get mumra to rejoin the land of the ##crawl-dev) 23:12:28 <|amethyst> Grunt: just need to get him fired 23:12:32 <_< 23:12:34 >_> 23:12:51 Hmm, so he got a new job? 23:12:59 apparently they're not accepting any new builds for their mac env 23:13:09 <|amethyst> geekosaur: oh, well 23:14:16 hm I'm watching someone battle blizzard demons 23:14:24 and contemplating the insulation ego and lich chain lightning 23:14:25 again 23:16:07 yes, add insulation ego 23:16:18 then add more acid to make up for it 23:16:56 I wouldn't call that a battle 23:16:59 mm, looks like they don't support windows native builds at all 23:17:06 What's the "normal" way to get rElec? Randart or racial? 23:17:11 it was more just a sad instance of hurry up and get this over with 23:17:12 <|amethyst> geekosaur: not surprised 23:17:22 randart, racial, staff of air, storm dragon armor, mutation 23:17:32 also potion of resistance and fixedarts 23:17:42 keep in mind that these were all around when electric enemies were significantly less common 23:17:45 yeh, I'd imagine the licensing is even more Byzantine (and much more expensive) than Apple's --- which is what I suspect caused the limitation on Mac builds 23:19:07 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:19:57 Is Vampires reducing food costs as depending on your hunger level ever relevant? Feels to me it should either do the full hunger all the time or no hunger all the time. 23:20:13 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:29 <|amethyst> OS X at least doesn't require client access licenses 23:21:36 <|amethyst> OS X server, that is 23:22:34 <|amethyst> (you don't need CALs for a public web server, but the build servers aren't public 23:22:37 <|amethyst> ) 23:23:19 <|amethyst> (OS X server does require CALs for AFP and CIFS) 23:23:37 <|amethyst> (not NFS though, for some reason) 23:24:04 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-3008-g8433e14 (34) 23:24:15 <|amethyst> reaverb: it makes it harder to stay at Alive but not so hard to stay at satiated 23:24:15 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:38 |amethyst: Hmm. 23:34:13 -!- cr0ne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:57 gammafunk: noooooooooooooo 23:35:03 what 23:35:06 that was lame 23:35:11 yeah rip 23:35:17 !lg gammafunk 23:35:18 2452. gammafunk the Bludgeoner (L20 FoAK of Lugonu), quit the game on Shoals:5 on 2014-12-07 05:34:35, with 231857 points after 47876 turns and 4:09:01. 23:35:19 silly and annoying 23:35:23 !lg gammafunk log 23:35:23 2452. gammafunk, XL20 FoAK, T:47876: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20141207-053435.txt 23:35:32 why did it really have to be that much of a pita 23:35:38 <|amethyst> TZer0: what was I checking for in the other channel? 23:35:42 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:44 <|amethyst> TZer0: also, which other channel? 23:35:56 <|amethyst> TZer0: since there are four now 23:36:06 dang. 23:39:24 .gfnext 23:39:24 CeAM^Ru 23:39:35 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:36 ug 23:39:45 h 23:44:35 maybe... 23:44:37 .gfnext 23:44:37 MiBe^Makky 23:44:40 yesss 23:44:43 ! 23:47:21 ??sid 23:47:22 stat gain[2/2]: Ce sd/4 | DD si/4 | DE i/4 | Dg sid/2 | Dr sid/4 | Ds sid/4 | Fe id/5 | Fo si/4 | Gh s/5 | Gr si/4 | Ha d/5 | HE id/3 | HO s/5 | Hu sid/4 | Ko sd/5 | Mf sid/5 | Mi sd/4 | Mu none | Na sid/4 | Og s/3 | Op sid/5 | Sp id/5 | Te sid/4 | Tr s/3 | Vp none | VS sd/4 23:47:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:54:33 !tell Basil compelling argument in favour of single singularity: !lm sar uniq=cerebov 21 -tv 23:54:34 Grunt: OK, I'll let basil know. 23:56:22 Is there a reason for this pattern: "one_chance_in(20) && x_chance_in_y(11 + item_level, 500)" 23:56:36 as opposed to "x_chance_in_y(11 + item_level, 10000)" 23:57:49 second one has higher variance 23:58:05 Is that a joke? 23:58:09 no? 23:59:05 500 * 20 = 10,000, so the second one should be equivalent to the first. 23:59:29 your'e giving the average, I'm talking the variance 23:59:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:38 But it's a bool. 23:59:59 yes