00:00:01 SILENCEABLE 00:00:38 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:01:36 angel cast targeted 00:01:36 @The_monster@ calls down the wrath of @possessive_God@ upon @target@. 00:01:39 interesting 00:01:46 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-2458-g540725a: Fix punctuation (ChrisOelmueller). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=540725a6b2ff 00:01:48 ? 00:01:57 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2459-ge2ba6bf: Make holies less demonic. 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 14+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e2ba6bfe22bb 00:02:04 that is a very chris o commit 00:02:31 |amethyst: I would have written "don't demonise angels" 00:02:32 <_< 00:03:14 any way to get a list of evil monsters? 00:03:26 I tried: https://github.com/ChrisOelmueller/Monsters but I don't see it in there 00:04:00 (also I guess I'm famous: https://github.com/ChrisOelmueller/Monsters/commit/596bd8d6c1c55c6325248cc26e87988e743313d3 (Update MR and friends (johnstein)) though I'm not sure what I did! 00:05:14 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2460-g5684410: Sync manual from wiki. 10(18 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56844104d27c 00:05:40 |amethyst: perhaps the final wiki manual update...? 00:05:47 depends if I get off my butt, I guess 00:06:08 for your consideration http://sprunge.us/OHHF 00:06:29 er 00:06:46 <|amethyst> ??? 00:06:51 ??? 00:06:58 ?/reset_options 00:06:58 No matches. 00:07:01 ??? 00:07:33 So, am I misunderstanding, or would that disable all more() prompts by default? 00:08:06 AIUI there are built-in more prompts that ignore that setting? 00:08:18 <|amethyst> only the ones from having a full message window 00:08:25 had to google aiui 00:08:38 anyway, pardon, but that seems insane. 00:09:15 <|amethyst> it makes sense for tiles 00:09:31 <|amethyst> since, if someone wanted to read, they wouldn't be playing tiles 00:09:32 my rationale is that forced prompts still appear, and people can manually scroll up for old messages, which is quicker to do as-required than pressing spacebar for every message 00:09:44 *every overflow 00:10:04 <|amethyst> but how do you know that you need to scroll up? 00:10:16 [22:09] |amethyst since, if someone wanted to read, they wouldn't be playing tiles <- dork!!! 00:10:40 -!- Nstar has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:50 I find the more()s for overflows very annoying 00:10:58 not least after the text area in webtiles shrunk a few months ago 00:11:04 (I was never really clear why that happened) 00:11:18 but I think disabling *all mores* by default is an absurd un-solution. 00:11:27 <|amethyst> err 00:11:30 <|amethyst> that isn't all mores 00:11:35 <|amethyst> it is mores from overflow 00:11:44 force_more still happens 00:11:46 oh, chequers' comment confused me 00:11:50 you still get a prompt from eg "ru believes you are ready to make a new sacrifice" 00:11:57 [22:07] PleasingFungus So, am I misunderstanding, or would that disable all more() prompts by default? 00:11:59 [22:08] chequers AIUI there are built-in more prompts that ignore that setting? 00:12:06 that is a confusing thing to say 00:12:21 the question mark was probably overkill 00:12:43 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2458-g540725a (34) 00:12:54 feh, whatever. 00:13:02 !send PleasingFungus seraphim 00:13:02 Sending seraphim to PleasingFungus. 00:13:06 it could be possible to replace the oldest visible message line with a '...' in cases of overflow, to indicate when more messages appeared 00:13:21 imo the right solution is to increase the size of the message area so that players are spammed less 00:13:23 but the visible message history is quite small, that would cut into it 00:13:24 alternately, to reduce spam 00:13:41 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:49 yeah. re: webtiles, I was looking into increasing the history area and it's possible but not easy 00:14:06 for console you don't really have a choice without changing the "standard" terminal size 00:14:11 <|amethyst> There's only room for six messages in tinyterm 00:15:11 <|amethyst> !lg @devteamnp @hugeterm s=name 00:15:12 21618 games for @devteamnp (@hugeterm): 10454x KiloByte, 9724x Neil, 1440x SamB 00:15:43 another potential solution: if you get >6 messages, print the ones after 6 with a configurable delay that defaults to a really small number. People can see it scroll then without needing to press Space 00:17:56 Spell slot 'throw icicle.50.demon' missing a casting type 00:17:56 %??bat spells:throw_icicle.50.demon hd:20 00:18:00 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 20 | HP: 58-83 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | XP: 1546 | Sp: throw icicle (3d29) [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:18:00 %??bat spells:throw_icicle.50.demonic hd:20 00:18:07 respectable 00:18:30 bat out of hell (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 27 | HP: 79-111 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | XP: 4153 | Sp: hellfire (3d20) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) burst [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:18:30 %??bat name:out_of_hell n_suf hd:27 spells:hellfire.100.demonic;hellfire_burst.100.demonic 00:18:56 er 00:18:59 unknown monster: "helion" 00:18:59 %??helion 00:19:01 hellion (042) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 383 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 00:19:01 %??hellion 00:19:07 oh 00:19:12 did we really never fix that bug 00:19:27 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1 | Sp: ghostly fireball (3d7) (3d8) [06!sil], fireball (3d8) [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:19:27 %??bat spells:ghostly_fireball.1.demonic;fireball.1.demonic 00:19:44 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1 | Sp: fireball (3d8) [06!sil], ghostly fireball (3d7) (3d8) [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:19:44 %??bat spells:fireball.1.demonic;ghostly_fireball.1.demonic 00:19:50 hm 00:19:58 * PleasingFungus shrugs. 00:23:02 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:25:11 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:27 -!- winlu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:26:56 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:56 The build passed. (master - 6d4b6af #595 : Shmuale Mark): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41427068 00:26:56 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:30:06 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:32:12 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:37:07 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:35 there isn't a ring to reduce metabolism? 00:38:02 why would you want a silly thing like that? 00:38:56 checking pf down for removing food 00:39:10 because its sometimes annoying to have a fast metabolism and maybe a mage could be happy with it. 00:39:40 it sounds like the sort of thing you'd tediously swap in after every combat. 00:39:45 for a very marginal gain, really. 00:39:49 besides, who has a fast metabolism? 00:39:52 only trolls. 00:40:00 and who cares about them? 00:40:13 centaurs, ogres 00:40:22 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:40:26 <|amethyst> centaurs and ogres no longer have fast metabolism 00:40:31 are you playing 0.15 Redz ? 00:40:31 oh. 00:40:39 yes. 00:40:50 then yeah, gone :p 00:40:50 -!- Siegurt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:58 <|amethyst> %git 17fcb76 00:40:58 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-772-g17fcb76: Remove Saprovorous from Ko, LO, HO, and Og 10(6 months ago, 3 files, 15+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=17fcb76da48e 00:41:47 hmm. the wikipage could need an update then. http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Fast_Metabolism 00:41:57 the wiki is always wrong 00:42:07 <|amethyst> %git f3c7235 00:42:07 07ChrisOelmueller02 {wheals} * 0.15-a0-323-gf3c7235: Replace rings of hunger/sustenance with loudness/stealth in-place 10(7 months ago, 12 files, 62+ 51-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3c7235ddb14 00:42:13 |amethyst: someone suggested we should request a takeover of the wiki 00:42:21 a transfer to developer control 00:42:31 cdo wiki is the future 00:42:38 <|amethyst> That sounds like a kind of assholish thing to do 00:42:47 to request it? 00:43:19 the wiki is fucked up and everyone knows it. it would be nice to maybe be in a situation where we could start to try to fix it. 00:43:27 since, like it or not, plenty of people use it. 00:44:28 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:45:14 idk. not trying to stir up hard feelings. 00:45:14 <|amethyst> We've spent the past how many years telling people "don't use the wiki", and now we try to take it over? 00:45:23 well, "don't use the wiki" has obviously failed. 00:45:32 and afaik the current admins aren't doing much with it. 00:46:18 I don't think you need to present this as some kind of death struggle/treacherous gambit. 00:46:28 it's an attempt to improve player experience. 00:46:30 doy: I'm reading that it's possible to build/link Lua in C++ to use C++ exceptions and not setjmp/longjmp 00:46:32 a wiki is a good and useful thing to have. 00:46:38 <|amethyst> Why not set up our own wiki then? 00:47:03 because the chaosforge wiki already has a large amount of content, not all of which is wrong, and a large number of users. 00:47:07 -!- ldf_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:07 doy: if we can do that I'm guessing either a) our problem goes away or b) we get a useful trace 00:47:21 <|amethyst> and who will pay for it? 00:47:30 <|amethyst> I guess the ads 00:47:35 there are ads??? 00:48:07 <|amethyst> I assume that's what this "World of Warcraft: Play for Free up to level 20" thing is 00:48:10 o 00:48:11 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:48:13 dang. 00:48:23 man, I doubt it's all that expensive. famous last words, but I think it'd be pretty easy for me to pay for it, if that's a problem. 00:48:31 money is not really a problem I have. 00:51:04 -!- ruwin has quit [] 00:51:27 I feel like I keep starting fights with you and i don't know why. 00:51:33 or how. 00:51:35 or what. 00:51:37 I'm going to bed. 00:51:39 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 36.0a1/20141110030204]] 00:51:41 <|amethyst> no worries 00:51:54 <|amethyst> I'm not upset, but I could imagine MoogleDan etc being 00:52:25 <|amethyst> I used to contribute to the wiki, but 1. ##crawl convinced me to stop 2. they moved servers and my account was deleted 01:00:53 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:10 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:05:48 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:52 -!- Zileas has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:11:37 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:48 doy: on Debianesque systems we can look for package lua5.1-c++ (and link against that as a lib) and we could adjust our contrib to do the same, but I'm not sure where that leaves everyone else 01:12:06 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:12:35 it is bed time here; I will ruminate more after work tomorrow if that doesn't yield any more insights on your part :) 01:13:23 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:23 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:21:20 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:26:32 -!- potatolizard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:29:47 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:42 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:42 The build passed. (master - 76b6da4 #597 : Steve Melenchuk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41429671 01:30:42 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:31:56 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:01 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 01:34:42 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:35:35 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:09 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:13 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:32 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:46:22 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:56:08 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:05:08 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:31 -!- Piginabag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:55 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:59 Man, the guardian spirit/mana regenartion DS facet is quite crazy. Nice. 02:15:44 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 02:15:50 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:24 -!- daiy has quit [] 02:18:05 -!- lessens has quit [] 02:19:16 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:37 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:20:19 I think you can set up a free wiki with ads 02:21:22 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:21:33 Also you can ask for donations for ad free, i'd be willing to donate for an official wiki 02:22:08 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2460-g5684410 (34) 02:22:17 fr in-game wiki 02:24:33 fr: in-game IRC portal so you can access the learndb 02:27:36 CTRL-F and CTRL-X output is wrong (about corpses) and can cause an unescapable hang 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9223 by TAS2012 02:27:54 Wiki is far superior as an information delivery format 02:28:51 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:30:01 -!- dead_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:30:17 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:38:09 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:38:44 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:43:21 funny bug I just encountered: http://i.imgur.com/WI6tpV5.png 02:48:03 Yeah it's on Mantis now 02:48:09 what happens if you press 'a'? 02:50:22 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:01 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:02:53 it goes to the first one 03:02:58 b, c, etc don't work at all 03:13:32 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:15:37 -!- t4nk376 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:49 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:18 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:47 -!- magicpoints has quit [] 03:18:46 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:20:12 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:22:07 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:24:23 -!- Wiebster has quit [Client Quit] 03:26:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:34 teleporting out of LOS of mesmerizer (siren) does not remove mesmerized status 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9224 by TAS2012 03:32:23 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 03:32:57 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:57 The build passed. (que_seraph_seraph - 9afb4b2 #600 : Steve Melenchuk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41436733 03:32:57 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 03:41:18 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426: Fix ctrl-x/ctrl-f hotkeys (#9223, doh) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8ce4268f695 03:47:23 <3 03:52:45 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:54:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426 (34) 03:55:06 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:33 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:24 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426 (34) 04:07:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426 (34) 04:07:37 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:37 The build was fixed. (master - 1ce37f3 #601 : Steve Melenchuk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41438850 04:07:37 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 04:09:08 %git 1ce37f3 04:09:11 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-2441-g1ce37f3: Unify enchantment resist messages; use in more places. 10(7 hours ago, 8 files, 85+ 69-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ce37f33001b 04:13:10 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426 (34) 04:18:56 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 04:19:52 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 04:20:38 -!- Hailley has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:40 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:34:53 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:40 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:40 The build was fixed. (master - 4c80b23 #602 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41439731 04:39:40 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 04:44:51 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:17 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:53:43 %git 4c80b23 04:53:44 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2444-g4c80b23: Randomly gender Gozag's shopkeepers 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c80b23a2a6b 04:57:49 how does travis pick which builds to build/test? 601 (1ce37f3) and 602 (4c80b23) have two commits in between that don't appear to be in the travis list of builds (fbd35b6 and f45ce76d) 05:00:38 -!- Naubita has quit [Client Quit] 05:03:13 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:14:29 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:15:36 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:38 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:38 The build passed. (que_seraph_seraph - faed392 #603 : Steve Melenchuk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41441102 05:15:38 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 05:27:11 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 05:28:03 debug(?) message "unlinked item held by dead monster" when entering level 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9225 by TAS2012 05:29:34 -!- mopl has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:07 My undead are out for control! 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9226 by nubinia 05:33:34 that (9225) reminds me, last night I at least once got a message suggesting I got Makh piety for a kill by one of Pikel's ex-slaves 05:33:53 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:12 0.16-a0-2414-g6479c4b 05:37:17 -!- Stendhal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:55 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:44:23 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:45:02 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:51:56 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 05:54:20 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 05:59:29 -!- d is now known as Guest29127 06:05:35 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:33 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:45 -!- Guest29127 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:14:09 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:18:19 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:24 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:34 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:19 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:19 The build failed. (eleven - 80ae52f #605 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41442248 06:21:19 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 06:30:34 -!- Limulus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:30:53 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:51 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:50 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:42:44 -!- mumble has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:22 -!- Redz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:54:08 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:54:20 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:20 The build passed. (eleven - c558ec4 #606 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41442579 06:54:20 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 06:56:15 9225, 9066, 8929, 8926, 8430 are most likely all duplicates of 8187 (which is actually a duplicate of 7983, but has a bit more info) 06:56:47 are those all the unlinked ones? 06:56:49 it looks like more people are seeing it on elf:3 now, which makes sense if its related to monsters picking up items 06:56:52 wheals: yeah 07:04:49 -!- JuicyPear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04:52 !tell gammafunk do you know if you fixed the stuff in the comments in showsymb.cc line 186? 07:04:53 wheals: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 07:06:23 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:55 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:35 i wonder what could be done to track down the bug a little better 07:18:54 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:45 Your large shield of reflection reflects the GOBLIN BEAM! 07:21:57 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:11 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 07:26:56 -!- crawlTV_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:03 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2462-g211b47a: Improve slide_feature_over's signature. 10(29 minutes ago, 5 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=211b47afd922 07:30:03 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2463-g83a92e4: Add an animation for goblin tossing. 10(32 seconds ago, 2 files, 18+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83a92e46c35c 07:30:34 -!- crawlTV has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:38:23 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 07:38:23 The build passed. (eleven - 8c3efb6 #607 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41443306 07:38:23 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 07:44:17 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:06 !learn add lasty_to_do Randomize Ru piety more if I didn't already do that 07:56:06 lasty to do[3/3]: Randomize Ru piety more if I didn't already do that 07:59:06 -!- crawlTV has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:17 -!- crawlTV_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:08:16 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:16 The build passed. (eleven - 2440bc2 #608 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41444024 08:08:16 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 08:11:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:39 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:20:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:21:01 Lasty_: thanks for reply in "gimme numbers" forum thread. 08:21:15 :D 08:21:19 You're welcome! 08:21:39 That thread is like a phoenix: it keeps springing back to life. And we have to remove it. :D 08:21:51 yes, indeed :) 08:22:30 There is the additional problem that advanced players can argue for more numbers, but new/casual players will never argue that they're better off with fewer numbers (which is what I claim). 08:22:49 Another issue is that it is harder to give context to numbers than to graphical representations. 08:22:50 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:23:03 perhaps I should just add this to the WontDo? 08:23:14 yeah, agreed 08:23:18 I think Wont Do is reasonable 08:23:22 because we won't :D 08:23:33 comes up frequently enough, eh? 08:23:46 Well, it's mostly damiac and Sandman25 08:23:56 and maybe 1-2 other posters 08:24:00 I think it is possible to make a game with full (or almost full) transparence... but then you have to design around this from the start. 08:24:03 which is to say, mostly the same people 08:24:14 dpeg: agreed 08:24:30 Having full number transparancy makes a huge amount of sense in, for example, a 4x game 08:24:40 you're supposed to deliberate over the best choices and policies 08:27:28 -!- deveit has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:29:17 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:13 okay, added a little blurb at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:wont_do 08:43:32 -!- potatolizard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:32 thanks, dpeg! 08:44:51 Did you see the ability I added to the no backtracking god branch? 08:46:19 "Give full xp for summons/ally kills." I didn't see that on the Won't Do list. Interesting. 08:46:56 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:56 The build failed. (que_seraph_seraph - 95056ee #609 : Steve Melenchuk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41444125 08:46:56 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 08:47:29 as is giving items to monsters :) 08:47:36 Lasty_: my understanding of that is that half XP for summons/allies exists for balance reasons, and what's important is the balance reasons themselves, rather than the half-XP method of doing it 08:47:58 as in, there wouldn't be widespread objection to a change that rebalanced summoning in such a way that full XP for ally kills was a balanced thing to do 08:48:10 makes sense. I'm a definite believer that summons/allies are very, very strong. 08:48:32 ais523_: you need to be around more! we were discussing that recently, in fact 08:48:34 I have to stay out of the visible-numbers argument 08:48:39 haha 08:48:40 Lasty_: "Give full xp for summons/ally kills." is an entry on the WontDo list :) 08:48:45 because I disagree so strongly with dpeg on it 08:48:52 (Gods can break rules of course, that is part of their point.) 08:49:19 ais523_: do you show all numbers in NH4? 08:49:26 yes, though a simple reusable at will command on "t" for giving items would be quite bad of course 08:49:39 dpeg: that's what I was commenting on. I was surprised it was on won't-do given that devs were discussing whether it should be removed just last week 08:49:45 wheals: absolutely 08:50:22 Lasty_: so you added it? THanks! 08:50:27 dpeg: the way we do it for items is to give descriptions that allows the ratio of effectiveness of any two items to be compared 08:50:29 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:34 how about a "what the hell stop standing idly and kill dudes" command 08:50:38 like, you can tell how filling an apple is compared to a carrot by reading their descriptions 08:50:42 potatolizard: isn't that tw 08:50:46 or rather why isn't that the default behaviour 08:50:49 we also want to do the same for monsters, but we don't atm because nobody's actually written the descriptions 08:50:50 Lasty_: and yes, the point is not that xp/2 is sacrosanct, but thay anyone changing this has to explain a lot or offer a bet drawback. 08:51:33 ais523_: but that's low hanging fruit :) What about damage done to monsters? 08:52:24 there's some amount of randomization in the damage you've actually dealt to monsters, so it's OK to keep that secret 08:52:25 ais523_: ooh, i was playing NH4 and never found that 08:52:31 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:35 I'd like some sort of indication of how much damage the monster deals to you, though 08:52:40 wheals: the UI for it is absolutely terrible atm 08:52:41 should add some way to look at descriptions from the inventory IMO 08:52:45 which reminds me that I need a better one 08:53:13 yeah i'd suggest just getting rid of using / to do ; 08:53:23 which would at least improve it slightly 08:53:34 the whole / ; thing is a mess 08:53:44 you fix bugs in it and then people complain at you that they have the bugs in muscle memory 08:53:55 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:54:18 overall NH4 interface is still leagues better than vanilla, at least in large part because pgup/pgdown/arrow keys work 08:54:35 with Crawl I'd suggest to always design for the new player, but I have no idea if that's a good policy for Nethack 08:54:40 container interface is still bleh :( 08:54:49 containers are bleh! 08:55:21 dpeg: my general principle is to put things intended for new players in places the veterans won't notice or care 08:55:30 nethack policy for new players is killing and confusing and turning them away 08:55:43 potatolizard: and then we pick them up? 08:55:59 sort of 08:56:10 crawl has plenty of confusing stuff as well but at least you're TRYING to do something about it 08:56:28 ais523_: I don't mean that: if you think that a change to glyphs or command keys improves the game (i.e. makes it better for new players to get into the game), you'll also always alienate some veterans. 08:56:47 some things are surprisingly uncontroversial 08:56:59 the thing that surprised me most that it was uncontroversial was autoexplore 08:57:09 nobody complained about autoexplore, which is pretty shocking really 08:57:13 over here, every little color change (orc priests, for example) was complained about by some :) 08:57:17 I guess it's partly because most people just don't press 'v' 08:57:21 yes 08:57:30 dpeg: you should have seen how furious I was at bhaak for changing floating eyes from blue to green 08:57:31 yeah autoexplore you can just ignore (not that that ever stops most complaints) 08:57:43 incidentally, on CAO, I have o and v macroed to each other 08:57:46 they scream if you change something they use all the time (like looking at coloured letters or pressing keys) 08:57:52 wheals: haha 08:58:08 I do have a rule that I'm not changing game mechanics to make autoexplore work better, though 08:58:15 autoexplore has to work around the game, not vice versa 08:58:24 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:29 i have to say i would not have the patience to play nethack4 without autoexplore :P 08:58:30 autoexplore is already a workaround for walking around being tedious 08:58:31 wheals: the proper change, imo, would be to make hitting floating eyes give a prompt. But that's probably heresy in a game where you can die by mis-typing next to lava :) 08:58:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:58:41 you can't in NH4! 08:58:47 dpeg: actually, in NH4, you can't die by typoing next to lava 08:58:51 oh, wow :) 08:58:57 well, technically you can, but you have to make a lot of typoes 08:58:57 and we're currently furiously debating what to do about floating eyes 08:59:07 right, you can dive into lava intentionally 08:59:07 (in crawl you can't no matter what you do, unless confused) 08:59:14 and this is useful if you're wearing unIDed fireproof water walking boots 08:59:20 oh right 08:59:43 dpeg: so the current fix is, we changed floating eyes to be impossible to hit in melee, unless you have gaze protection 08:59:53 ais523_: very good! 08:59:56 which approximates what they actually do to a careful player 09:00:03 but we're growing increasingly unsatisfied with it 09:01:05 there are two gameplay complaints (one is that it actually leads to pretty tedious gameplay, one is that it allows a simple method of identifying rings of free action), and a flavour complaint (how does your character know to abort their attack look away from the floating eye, which is the current flavour?) 09:01:34 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:45 they're squinting their eyes! 09:01:58 so our basic problem is, the general idea of a floating eye is "monster it's dangerous to attack indiscriminately" 09:02:11 which is fine in-of itself, but it's very hard to design something that's dangerous to attack indiscriminately, but not to attack unintentionally 09:02:20 because like most roguelikes, NetHack uses bump-attack 09:05:06 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:09 !shrikekills 09:09:11 29. eagle the Cleaver (L11 GrCK of Xom), slain by a caustic shrike on Lair:1 on 2014-11-19 10:34:09, with 7230 points after 9355 turns and 0:51:29. 09:09:20 !shrikekills -2 09:09:21 28/29. kroki the Nimble (L15 TrWr of Nemelex Xobeh), demolished by a caustic shrike (kmap: hangedman_depths_entry_try_elsewhere_first) on D:15 on 2014-11-19 09:06:24, with 84081 points after 30841 turns and 1:36:20. 09:09:22 hahahaha 09:09:27 wow, caustic shrike on L:1 09:09:27 !log eagle killer~~shrike 09:09:28 1. eagle, XL11 GrCK, T:9355: http://kr.dobrazupa.org/morgue/trunk/eagle/morgue-eagle-20141119-103409.txt 09:09:44 9344 | Lair:1 | a catoblepas changed into a caustic shrike 09:10:09 what is a shrike? 09:10:22 ??caustic shrike 09:10:22 caustic shrike[1/3]: potatolizard: they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 09:10:36 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:46 They're a very fast pack threat with an acid-splashing attack that appears only as an out-of-depth monster in the Depths 09:10:46 I don't really follow Crawl any more, I decided there were enough design decisions that I disagreed with that I'd only get myself and everyone around me annoyed 09:10:57 ais523_: I agree about that contradiction for the eyes. Why not make the eye affect characters as soon as they are in view (like Crawl's eyes or torpor snails)? 09:11:15 dpeg: several of the replacement suggestions are along those lines 09:11:23 catoblepas (06Y) | Spd: 8 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/2 | Dam: 36 | Res: 06magic(100) | XP: 799 | Sp: petrifying cloud (2d6) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 09:11:23 %?? catoblepas 09:11:33 however, our current situation is that we want to release 4.3, which isn't meant to have major gameplay changes from 3.4.3 09:11:34 I think nerfing shrike HD actually made them scarier 09:11:47 heh 09:11:49 only for silly people who like polymorphing harmless things with high HD 09:11:51 Gastronok (06w) | Spd: 5 | HD: 20 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 2/1 | Dam: 40 | 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1587 | Sp: airstrike (0-50), slow, swiftness, sum.small mammal, cantrip | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 09:11:51 %??gastronok 09:11:56 potatolizard: Or worshipping Xom 09:12:03 Xom is such a person 09:12:04 well that is even worse 09:12:05 so we want eyes that are at least justifiable as 3.4.3-like 09:12:13 I see 09:12:22 if you follow xom you deserve everything that happens to you 09:12:26 I've expressed my opinion that a prefix confirm is acceptable, but nobody really likes that solution 09:12:49 (also, interface tip from me: yes/no confirms are terrible unless the choice rarely makes a large difference; for anything dangerous, require the confirm to be pressed /before/ the dangerous action) 09:13:00 (e.g. the confirm for moving into lava is to press 'm' before you press the direction) 09:13:13 ais523_: What's the goal for eyes? Obviously the way they used to work was to kill unwary players that walked into them after not seeing the darkblue monster. If you can't accidentally paralyse yourself w/ them, what do they do? 09:13:36 Lasty_: the ideal goal is "monster that teaches players not to indiscriminately attack everything" 09:13:42 Gotcha 09:13:49 Hmm. 09:13:57 energy vortex is currently in pretty much the right space for that 09:14:00 well, you can still eat their corpses for ESP? 09:14:18 dpeg: yes, you can kill them with a ranged attack and eat them 09:14:38 Making eyes paralyse you on attack and then making them a visible color seems like it'd do the job. It's much harder to bump into them by accident, but doing so still teaches you the lesson. 09:14:39 I always used a blindfold, so that's unchanged. 09:14:45 funnily enough, my /dev/null ascension this year, I didn't find an eye until really late in the game (Gehennom I think), and none left corpses, so I ascended without intrinsic ESP 09:14:55 Lasty_: the problem is lag 09:15:00 Oh, I see 09:15:02 if you're running along a corridor, where you have small vision 09:15:11 a small amount of lag, you move just beyond the edge of your vision 09:15:13 autoexplore to the rescue! 09:15:15 and there's a chance there's an eye there 09:15:15 summon a monster whenever hit? not deadly but could really stack up 09:15:18 I used to play local only -- I wasn't thinking about online/lag 09:15:24 wheals: ooh 09:15:26 hard to justify flavour-wise 09:15:40 not sure if I like that, but it's at least worth throwing into the suggestion pile to see what happens 09:15:41 does keep the "other monsters do the killing" thing 09:16:03 which is funny, everyone else is a tag team against you :P 09:16:06 Man, even after polymorphing the catoblepas into a shrike, eagle just tabs into it. 09:16:06 wouldn't it be potentially scummy 09:16:26 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:26 The build was broken. (master - e513bf6 #610 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41444181 09:16:26 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 09:16:33 potatolizard: this is nethack we're talking about :b 09:16:50 surely it would be easier to just cast create monster 09:16:54 actually, good point, someone would almost certainly try to farm one at an altar 09:17:13 Is farming something nethack is trying to prevent? 09:17:26 we want to prevent things that are both tedious, and optimal play 09:17:32 if farming isn't optimal play, it's fine for it to exist 09:17:33 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:17:45 this is why something like selling items is not a huge problem, because it's actually terrible strategy 09:17:58 maybe the monsters could get stronger and stronger until they get to be nasties and such 09:18:07 the thing is, floating eyes don't have that much hp, do they 09:18:26 although I have a fix in mind to help guide low-headroom-attitude players like dpeg out of their mental ruts (specifically, allow shks to buy items only for credit, not gold) 09:18:38 wheals: they're early-game monsters 09:19:38 ais523_: any plans for gems, then? your new scoring alg doesn't take them into account i think, right? 09:19:46 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:56 wheals: they're in a category of their own, logarithmically scored like everything else 09:20:01 shks? 09:20:09 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:20:10 shopkeepers 09:20:12 past a certain point, the time penalty for mining the gems will be greater than the score you get form them 09:20:12 ah 09:20:17 and right, shk = shopkeeper 09:20:52 the thing about buying for credit is, even an unspoiled player looking for optimal play will quickly realise that there's no point in selling items once you already have enough credit to buy everything in the shop 09:21:13 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:53 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:46 -!- Zauren has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:28:16 -!- Pluie|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:10 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:37:07 -!- Pluie|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:52 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:45 wheals the Death's Scholar 09:43:18 -!- doy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:01 update: as it turns out, adding a bunch of print statements doesn't help at all in debugging a segfault, especially one caused by a bad longjmp, if i don't remember to also disable buffering 09:44:03 * doy_ sigh 09:44:14 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:46:15 Grunt: also, i'm kind of doubtful that switching to c++ exceptions will actually fix the problem 09:46:20 doy_: that almost caught me out when profiling the NH4 save system recently 09:46:34 because i'm pretty doubtful that the problem is a bug in lua 09:46:38 -!- piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:47:12 worth a shot i guess 09:47:17 it's possible that it might give better debugging information though, shrug 09:48:00 luckily, what I was debugging wasn't a crash, so I just injected fflush commands directly using the debugger 09:48:16 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:49:56 -!- zarath9 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:51:40 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:39 -!- gal_bolle has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:24 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:05 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:40 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:12 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:13:56 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 10:14:43 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:01 yeah, the line that the logs seem to indicate is segfaulting is "local downstairs = { }", which is pretty nonsensical 10:21:22 going to have to rerun this later with some fflushes inserted, i guess 10:23:41 hmmm, you know, really 10:23:55 it might be worthwhile to just disable this test entirely for now, to get travis to calm down 10:24:04 and then reenable it once we've tracked the issue down 10:24:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:26 since it's making travis as a whole quite a bit less useful at the moment 10:25:05 %git e8ce426 10:25:05 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-2461-ge8ce426: Fix ctrl-x/ctrl-f hotkeys (#9223, doh) 10(7 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8ce4268f695 10:26:50 !send wheals GOBLIN BEAM 10:26:51 Sending GOBLIN BEAM to wheals. 10:27:24 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:44 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:32:38 doy: which test is it specifically? 10:34:05 hm. also, should you ever get piety for a YOU_FAULTLESS kill? 10:34:10 that's not a question for doy, that's for anyone 10:34:15 it's snake-rune 10:34:21 ahh 10:34:25 as far as i can tell 10:34:33 i'm going to try disabling it and see if that makes things more reliable 10:34:44 and then we can work on fixing the issue later 10:35:03 do you think there's any way to get travis to not report in IRC when it dies due to github failure? 10:35:17 (i forgot my laptop charger today, so i won't be able to really do any compiling/running tests) 10:35:21 alternately, nrook suggests trying to get it to retry a few times when it encounters that 10:35:31 it looks like the github failures have gotten better, haven't they? 10:36:02 i haven't seen any for a few days, anyway 10:36:50 there's been one or two failures because of connection issues with our custom gcc ubuntu repository, but that has been pretty infrequent 10:36:52 could make that a bit more robust though 10:37:01 i'll keep an eye on it 10:38:15 I think I saw one yesterday 10:40:04 -!- Lanie has quit [Client Quit] 10:43:11 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-2464-gd9e547f: disable snake-rune for now, to try to make travis more reliable 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9e547fc1bd8 10:46:01 ugh 10:46:18 hmmm? 10:46:48 how does travis pick which builds to build/test? 601 (1ce37f3) and 602 (4c80b23) have two commits in between that don't appear to be in the travis list of builds (fbd35b6 and f45ce76d) 10:47:02 johnstein: it builds on every push 10:47:43 ah. so in this case I infer that the 2 missing ones (also by PF) were pushed at the same time as 602 10:47:50 johnstein: yeah 10:47:58 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:48:19 03doy02 07[segfault-debug] * 0.16-a0-2465-g84eb912: Revert "disable snake-rune for now, to try to make travis more reliable" 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84eb91215f77 10:48:19 03doy02 07[segfault-debug] * 0.16-a0-2466-gf9b5be1: add some debugging output 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 35+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9b5be110192 10:48:19 03doy02 07[segfault-debug] * 0.16-a0-2467-g6f165d0: save displayed messages and write them to the logs 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f165d093ac5 10:48:27 the logic in _fire_kill_conducts() is wrong - it needs to only fire any conduct if your_fault == true, but should only fire conducts that give piety if maybe_good_kill == true, but always fire conducts that might give penance even if maybe_good_kill == false. except did_kill_holy could be a good or bad conduct, depending 10:48:29 oh, wait 10:48:30 hm 10:48:31 PleasingFungus: i reenabled the test right away on a branch, and i'm going to keep working on it, just want the master branch stuff to actually be reliable 10:48:39 doy_: ya that's absolutely the right move 10:48:50 ty again for all the work on this 10:48:58 it's good stuff 10:51:40 -!- Piginabag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:53:25 doy: so the missing ingredient is knowing which commits are part the same push. is there an easy way to see this? I've never tried to look for that in git before 10:54:49 -!- doy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:01:13 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:52 -!- Dynast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:57 -!- doy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:07 johnstein: git doesn't track that information 11:03:11 what are you trying to do? 11:04:19 the way it works is that whenever you push, the server that is being pushed to triggers a hook that tells travis to start another build 11:04:29 there is no metadata about this that is actually being stored anywhere 11:04:31 -!- Zauren has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:27 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 36.0a1/20141110030204]] 11:05:54 doy: oh, I'm just curious on how it works. I was browsing the travis site and was impressed by all the info and potential 11:06:33 so the hook just has the last commit from that push to tell travis which commit to pull. makes sense 11:07:00 thought it seems to imply that travis is more useful if the pushes are logically organized so that all commits for that push are related 11:07:07 s/thought/though 11:07:11 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:39 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2465-g0f9d4c6: Possibly fixup god conduct code 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f9d4c66b655 11:10:02 -!- doy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:11:21 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-2464-gd9e547f (34) 11:14:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:17:55 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:25:22 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:16 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:32 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:43 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:36:46 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:39:29 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:52:29 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:39 Blomdor (L6 DrWz) (D:4) 11:56:16 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56:27 first robin kill is in 11:56:30 sort of 11:57:45 Log? 11:59:05 pictures!! 11:59:33 oh shoot 12:00:00 will probably need to add Robin to the 'Ignore D unique kills' list 12:00:11 !lg * killer=robin 12:00:12 No games for * (killer=robin). 12:01:20 !log * ikiller=robin current trunk 12:01:21 1. schwarznadel, XL3 DsAs, T:1306: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/schwarznadel/morgue-schwarznadel-20141119-104150.txt 12:01:29 johnstein: yeah good thinking 12:01:32 I have no idea where that lives 12:02:38 unknown monster: "robin" 12:02:38 %?? robin 12:03:00 how much buffer is Robin than a normal goblin? Scarier than Ijyb? 12:03:13 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:28 robin is about twice as tough as a normal hobgoblin 12:03:40 oh, so not very scary on her own 12:03:42 she's not supposed to be individually extremely threatening, it's more her mob that's the threat 12:03:43 PleasingFungus: it's on the server bots 12:03:43 yes 12:03:51 -!- Zauren_ is now known as zauren 12:03:51 neat 12:03:57 PleasingFungus: so up to the server admins 12:04:05 How does thrown goblin damage compare to thrown stones? 12:04:12 thrown goblins do joke damage 12:04:20 since dying to a thrown goblin is a joke 12:04:21 (this is where having a nice Server Admin Union may be useful to stay better coordinated) 12:04:25 (the main danger is the positioning) 12:04:31 gotcha 12:04:42 cool stuff, fancy bands like Pikel's or Robin's are awesome 12:04:59 PleasingFungus: how did you come up with "Robin" ? 12:04:59 fancyband 12:05:38 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:05:48 "robin goodfellow" is a mythological hobgoblin name; "robin" is also gender-neutral in english (can be used for male or female) 12:05:56 I am not super fond of it but it's the best I saw 12:07:06 it would also be a pretty funny joke to spawn robin with Punk in some context 12:07:07 funny to me, anyway 12:07:41 good! 12:07:52 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:09:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:59 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:12:16 doy: gcc builds segfault too in travis, btw 12:12:59 doy: and yeah, I'm hoping we can get better debug info that way at least 12:19:14 -!- dis- has quit [Quit: Please verify suicide by typing '@' sign] 12:21:55 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:28:57 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:33:36 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:34:13 -!- lyrick has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:31 hellion (042) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 383 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 12:37:31 %??hellion 12:37:32 Grinder (025) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 1105(pain) | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 281 | Sp: pain (d10) [06!sil], paralyse [06!sil], blink [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 12:37:32 %??grinder 12:37:46 !lg * killer~~"grinder the" 12:37:48 130. lessens the Cudgeler (L5 MuCK of Xom), blasted by Grinder the ynoxinul (iron shot) on D:3 on 2014-11-10 16:28:41, with 158 points after 2683 turns and 0:05:07. 12:37:52 !lg * killer~~"grinder the" s=killer 12:37:55 130 games for * (killer~~'grinder the'): 14x Grinder the hellion, 10x Grinder the red devil, 10x Grinder the sixfirhy, 9x Grinder the hell beast, 8x Grinder the iron imp, 8x Grinder the blue devil, 7x Grinder the efreet, 7x Grinder the demonic crawler, 7x Grinder the tormentor, 6x Grinder the quasit, 5x Grinder the white imp, 5x Grinder the hellwing, 5x Grinder the ynoxinul, 3x Grinder the chaos s... 12:40:40 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:10 !lg * killer~~"grinder the" s=killer ?: N=1 12:42:13 8 games for * (killer~~'grinder the'): Grinder the blizzard demon, Grinder the crimson imp, Grinder the raiju, Grinder the reaper, Grinder the Executioner, Grinder the lorocyproca, Grinder the hellephant, Grinder the soul eater 12:42:51 grinder the hellephant 12:43:00 !lg * killer~~"grinder the Executioner" 12:43:07 1. ProvTheAverage the Ruffian (L6 DrTm), slain by Grinder the Executioner on D:4 on 2012-08-20 23:29:19, with 641 points after 3179 turns and 0:19:43. 12:43:10 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:16 Grinder the crimson imp, how insulting :) 12:44:07 !lg * killer~~"gastronok the" s=killer 12:44:10 39 games for * (killer~~'gastronok the'): 19x Gastronok the titan, 7x Gastronok the golden dragon, 6x Gastronok the acid blob, 2x Gastronok the titan (shapeshifter), 2x Gastronok the iron dragon, Gastronok the elephant slug zombie, Gastronok the golden dragon (shapeshifter), Gastronok the shadow dragon 12:46:15 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:16 wow, someone managed to give gastronok the shapeshifter flag in a couple of cases 12:53:10 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:53:17 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:53:19 Zannick: xoom 12:53:23 xommmmm 12:53:38 ah. 13:06:21 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06:21 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:32 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:58 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:13:20 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:37 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:52 -!- Akitten_Homura is now known as UncertainKitten 13:18:26 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:20 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 13:21:57 -!- witty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:57 -!- witty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:37 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:19 -!- Amnesthesia is now known as Amnesthesia|Else 13:28:28 lol 13:28:49 ? 13:30:36 i'm a bit late. i readed the stuff about gastronok, shapeshifting and xom. 13:31:11 ok. 13:31:32 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:19 Is there a chei command to get a list of monsters by HD? 13:35:50 -!- Amnesthesia|Else is now known as Amnesthesia 13:36:10 or a function that tell you all the success rates you have for every action. 13:37:10 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:47 are deep elf sorcerers and demonologists supposed to be vulnerable to silver and hated by zin 13:39:19 because that is what crawl says (im in salamander branch so i dont know if this is in latest trunk) 13:39:49 deep elf sorcerer (13e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 54-75 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | XP: 1664 | Sp: b.corrosive (3d18), banishment, haste, sum.demon, hellfire (3d20) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 13:39:49 %??deep elf sorcerer 13:39:54 doesnt say it there 13:39:57 interesting 13:40:21 deep elf blademaster doesnt have the line if it helps 13:40:42 doesn't show up in ?/m 13:40:57 doesnt for me either 13:40:57 salamander branch I think is broken in weird ways 13:41:10 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:41:10 you apparently get trog piety for killing orc priests but not wizards 13:41:12 in that branch 13:41:15 ah 13:42:35 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50:04 -!- fevertrip has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:51:52 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:53 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:21 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:21 The build was broken. (master - 82f2d87 #615 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41445652 13:54:21 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 13:55:25 -!- Dynast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:59:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:00:58 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:04:11 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:04:24 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:08:02 InC (L3 DrWz) (D:2) 14:13:51 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:18:31 Aarujn (L14 DDFi) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1978 failed. (Lair:7) 14:19:44 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20:37 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:52 Complete hang 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9227 by vonbrand 14:26:00 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:23 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:26 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:29:37 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:53 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:00 -!- Schizzik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:42:40 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:43:18 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:45 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:10 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:04 .crushed 14:47:04 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:47:05 76. Mersau1t the Imperceptible (L19 VpEn of Ashenzari), thrown by an octopode crusher on Depths:2 on 2014-11-19 09:47:41, with 273699 points after 61667 turns and 9:17:00. 14:47:09 oh fun 14:47:12 .crushed -tv 14:47:13 76. Mersau1t, XL19 VpEn, T:61667 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 14:47:31 !crush gammafunk 14:47:32 PleasingFungus pounds gammafunk like an anvil!!!! 14:48:11 oh, right, vampires draining corpses still is a thing. 14:48:37 deng 14:48:45 um 14:48:47 57 damage 14:48:48 that escalated quickly 14:48:50 ummm 14:48:55 yeah it's 14:49:00 octopode crusher (08x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 99-127 | AC/EV: 1/18 | Dam: 35, 1003(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 2235 | Sp: iron shot (3d29), tentacle throw [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:49:00 %??octopode_crusher 14:49:08 16 * 4 14:49:15 huh 14:49:20 1d64 14:49:29 tbh I think it might make sense to have it check gdr 14:49:35 .crushed x=ac 14:49:36 76. [ac=12] Mersau1t the Imperceptible (L19 VpEn of Ashenzari), thrown by an octopode crusher on Depths:2 on 2014-11-19 09:47:41, with 273699 points after 61667 turns and 9:17:00. 14:49:46 ugh, dr 14:49:48 *gdr 14:49:48 yeah terrible defenses 14:49:56 it does check ac, of course 14:50:02 other thing throw needs imo is a cooldown 14:50:13 but I'm not sure about the implementation 14:50:23 use the out of breath enchant? (whatever that one is) 14:50:35 might be breath 14:50:49 would that mean that curare would reck crushers 14:51:06 well no they have iron shot and decent melee 14:51:12 iron shot is most of their kills 14:51:21 but does that also stop spells? 14:51:25 gammafunk: Isn't the cooldown on throw that you're no longer adjacent to a crusher? 14:51:25 curare, I mean 14:51:31 Lasty_: hehe 14:51:43 Lasty_: well you can get thrown not far at all 14:51:50 and throw damage doesn't care about where you were thrown 14:52:11 but yeah what you said and also they have to constrict you again 14:52:31 I think it specifically stops breath effects 14:52:33 it's not a problem as much as breath with no breath timer would be 14:53:09 I think curare shouldn't block throw though, you're right 14:53:14 would have to be a new one I guess 14:53:26 I mean you could argue either way I guess, w/e 14:53:49 what's important is that there's no crazy monsters with throw 14:53:52 like say a goblin 14:53:56 that throws goblins 14:54:04 a hobgoblin that throws goblins!!! 14:54:04 stuff like that starts making into the game, I have to quit 14:54:13 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzhunda 14:54:14 oh that'd be even worse!!! 14:54:16 a goblin that throws goblins would just be ridiculous. 14:54:19 jerk hobgoblins 14:54:54 my concern wrt curare/tentacle throw interaction is that it'd be pretty unintuitive. breath + word of recall makes a little more sense (though it's still kind of secret tech) 14:55:31 yeah that's mine as well, essentially; I'd like a cooldown iff it doesn't have weird interactions like curare 14:55:33 * wheals tosses PleasingFungus at gammafunk! 14:55:44 but maybe like Lasty implied it's not truly necessary 14:55:57 I really don't see it as necessary 14:56:03 it does have a minimum distance 14:56:05 the toss 14:56:32 I mean, if you're getting your ass kicked by a crusher repeatedly throwing you, it's virtually guaranteed that it's because you keep trying to get back up on that horse 14:56:46 just take the hint and gtfo 14:56:46 yeah the target destination does but I do a weighted choose along the ray path, I forget if you could land adjacent 14:57:17 Lasty_: yeah some of the deaths have been tabtabtabtabtab...wait I'm dead 14:57:40 so that's player's fault, of course 14:57:56 -!- crystall_wall has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:23 !source showsymb.cc:186 14:58:23 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/showsymb.cc;hb=HEAD#l186 14:58:26 you know that the git version loses Int far more often then Dex and Str with deterioating mutation? the random function used there is wrong 14:58:38 anyone fixed that yet? 14:58:40 what 14:58:49 oh, you mean trunk 14:58:53 gammafunk: yeah, I generally see tabtabtabdead as fine. The more monsters we have that you don't just tabtabtab the better imo 14:58:56 crystall_wall: maybe you could give a source reference 14:59:02 well, up to a point nayway 14:59:03 e.g. file.cc:lineno 14:59:33 yeah, whe have shrikes as tab fodder, and that's enough :) 14:59:39 haha 14:59:41 woe unto those who tab the shrike! 14:59:50 Also those who mutate things . . . 14:59:54 !source _deteriorate 14:59:55 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/effects.cc;hb=HEAD#l1977 14:59:59 !source lose_stat 15:00:00 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-miscast.cc;hb=HEAD#l529 15:00:09 gammafunk: player-stats uses random2 from count of stats (from 3) when losing 15:00:10 Over the last 24 hours we had two different mutate something->shrike->dead 15:00:22 random2 is 0-based 15:00:22 hah 15:00:24 ??random2 15:00:25 random2[1/1]: 1dN - 1 15:00:25 unknown monster: "shrike" 15:00:25 %??shrike 15:00:34 caustic shrike (09b) | Spd: 20 | HD: 17 | HP: 90-128 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 4008(acid:7d3) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire, 02cold, 08blind | XP: 4359 | Sz: tiny | Int: normal. 15:00:34 %??caustic_shrike 15:00:44 is that the current hd 15:00:44 that's the pre-nerf stats 15:00:45 but other function is used when healing, the _random_lost_stat() it should not call that random in loop but outside 15:00:50 the current hd is 15 15:00:53 I see 15:01:07 that's still a bit high to be polying too, but I guess some people are poly-aggressive 15:01:15 !source _random_lost_stat 15:01:15 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player-stats.cc;hb=HEAD#l560 15:01:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:01:31 I think the recent Nemelex changes are part of it 15:01:36 Degeneration card, ya know 15:01:39 oh, that'd do it, yeah 15:01:41 elliptic was talking about making poly based on xp or threat level or s/t 15:01:43 rather than hd 15:01:50 since hd is invisible and threat isn't 15:01:54 I started to get suspicious when I got Str 29(30), Dex 10, Int -2 (9) from deterioating 1 15:01:54 threat level is also xp 15:01:55 and hd is also really wacky 15:01:57 :} 15:01:58 Lasty_: yeah 15:02:04 But I like that proposal 15:02:19 My assumption is that HD was initially chosen as a proxy for size 15:02:36 XP is much more fair 15:03:09 crystall_wall: _random_lost_stat() is correct. 15:03:11 crystall_wall: oh i see, so they're lowered equally but not raised equally you're saying? 15:03:17 calling one_chance_in() outside the loop would be incorect. 15:03:25 wheals: that part of showsymb.cc does look suspicious, I recall seeing it before but didn't change it; I'll see if it needs updating, so thatnks 15:03:28 *thanks 15:03:44 wheals: yes, random2 has linear distribution right? the other function has gauss distribution, or smth, random 0,1,2 will usually return 0 there 15:03:52 PleasingFungus: clearly the problem is not doing one_chance_in_(++found) 15:03:58 :( 15:04:27 * crystall_wall turns it gaze to PleasingFungus 15:04:27 wheals: grunt code! 15:04:31 excellent 15:05:22 your Manual of C++ glows pink. It is now an Manual of Windows! (Int-5, Stlth-, *Rage) 15:05:45 brutal 15:05:45 i think we use that paradigm in many places, right? 15:05:51 wheals: please credit: rfree@mempo.org with finding it 15:06:51 I am still not convinced that there's a bug. 15:06:57 btw should I end up with Int -2? I keept living (as brainless) 15:07:07 Stat death was removed. 15:07:10 i know lots of people IRL like that 15:07:11 after unwielding Int+3 weapon 15:07:51 wheals: can you explain what crystall_wall is saying the bug is? 15:08:32 that the chance per stat isn't equal 15:08:38 gammafunk: btw you could possibly? limit tentacle throw on 'ench_fatigue' instead 15:08:57 you mostly lose Int but regaint it less often, so you will end up dead of Int=0 15:09:03 yeah, if that's not affected by e.g. curare, that'd work 15:09:15 well I see he's saying that there's an indexing bug where the int index is selected as the stat to loose 15:09:18 I believe curare is just breath 15:09:18 *lose 15:09:49 ok, I'll go do some tests to get a better sense of how bad the serial throwing is, and can change it if I'm convinced it's actually bad 15:10:11 wheals: is the code on github so I can fix it? 15:10:16 _random_lost_stat() looks fine to me 15:10:21 it is not. however, I don't think there is a bug. 15:10:43 -!- Tungsten has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 15:10:45 cereal throwing is awful. People step on the pieces and bits of cereal dust get ground into the carpet. . . I would strongly recommend that you avoid it. 15:11:13 the argument that you can just walk away from crushers if you're getting thrown would carry a lot more weight with me if they didn't have iron shot 15:11:27 I don't see how the distribution in _random_lost_stat() is skewed. It seems pretty straightforward. I mean, I've been wrong about statistics before, but. 15:11:40 ackack: so are you saying the real problem is iron shot? 15:12:14 the problem may be: throw does too much damage 15:12:15 PleasingFungus: why not just rand2(3) there 15:12:29 you could fix any of a number of factors and crushers would seem less excessive 15:12:36 people should be spanked for writting code like this 15:12:43 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:12:44 crystall_wall: because then you would sometimes choose to restore stats which haven't been damaged? 15:12:52 yes 15:12:58 ackack: You're saying they're just overall too dangerous? 15:13:08 IMO people should not be spanked for writing correct code 15:13:10 this loop doesn't pre-calculate how many valid stats there are to fix 15:13:12 they are very dangerous if you need to melee them 15:13:29 if you know a bolt spell or have enough high evo wand charges, fairly trivial 15:13:32 so it figures that out on the fly essentially, giving equal weight to all those stats that are restoarable 15:13:35 *restorable 15:13:36 ackack: so's a d:3 ogre. If you can't take it in melee and have no other options, walk away. They can always be defeated by the Walk Away spell. 15:13:50 most d:3 ogres do not know iron shot, maybe you guys are working on that 15:13:52 Lasty_: Very few ogres know Iron Shot. 15:13:55 ackack: o/ 15:14:02 wait shit 15:14:03 PleasingFungus: How are you skilling your ogres?! :D 15:14:04 to be fair though I can't really imagine the context in which this function would be useful as-is 15:14:05 ogre mage (06O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 40-68 | AC/EV: 1/7 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80) | XP: 928 | Sp: haste other, crystal spear (3d28), blink, b.fire (3d18), b.cold (3d18), minor healing (2d5) [04emergency] / haste other, mystic blast (3d15), invisibility, confuse, slow, teleport self [04emergency] / haste other, paralyse, haste, b.lightning (3d17), confuse, teleport self [04emergency] / haste other, sting (d10), blink, b.lightning (3d17), banishment, minor healing (2d5) [04emergency] / haste other, throw flame (3d8), invisibility, teleport other, fireball (3d19) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 15:14:05 %??ogre mage 15:14:14 yeah, okay, no iron shot. 15:14:15 since why would you want to pick a random drained stat 15:14:16 is the function name _random_lost_stat bad or am I dumb as rocks 15:14:22 elliptic: right below it 15:14:28 PleasingFungus: just crystal spea 15:14:28 r 15:14:34 Lasty_: the range cost...! 15:14:36 anyway, crushers have unusually high EV, often generate with shields, high HD so they do constrict often, high damage throw, and iron shot 15:14:45 spd 10 15:14:49 PleasingFungus: yes, the distributions mus be identical 15:15:10 Lasty_: yes, if you have one crusher and no other monsters anywhere else, you can walk away 15:15:12 -!- abullrd has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:20 i find that considering all monsters in a vacuum like that is not very fruitful 15:15:20 so what calls that with STAT_RANDOM, hm 15:15:29 crystall_wall: what? 15:15:47 elliptic: I assume that it's the natural stat restoration over time 15:15:52 though you know what they say about assumptions 15:15:57 !source player-react.cc 15:15:58 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player-react.cc;hb=HEAD 15:16:06 feh 15:16:10 ackack: sure, but if it's a dangerous monster, you shouldn't be fighting it unless it's 1v1. In most situations you can walk away from danger, and crushers don't really do anything to make that harder. 15:16:20 wow that's bad 15:16:26 this isn't how this code used to work 15:16:33 Unless you get octopode crusher in the shoals 1 vault 15:16:44 oh, "reacts" 15:16:45 many times you do not really have the option of fighting things 1v1 15:16:57 the reason why it is bad is that it means that having your strength drained by 1 point means that you restore int more slowly 15:16:57 -!- stanzhunda is now known as stanzill 15:17:06 oh, in that case there are a *lot* of monsters we need to remove, ackack 15:17:06 which is pretty stupid 15:17:15 ackack: I disagree. 15:17:30 just replace entire _random_lost_stat() with code: return static_cast(random2(NUM_STATS)); 15:17:37 have you ever stepped in depths, theres a lot of monsters there sometimes 15:17:40 !source _recover_stats 15:17:40 and that fixes bug and makes code not inasane 15:17:40 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/effects.cc;hb=HEAD#l1932 15:17:49 It can be extremely hard to fight 1v1 in depths 15:17:54 which is where podes spawn 15:18:03 crystall_wall: that isn't the intended purpose of the code (as you can tell from the name of the function) 15:18:12 crystall_wall: that would make you recover stats more slowly if you have int -3 than if you have int -1, str -1, dex -1. 15:18:16 simmarine: I don't think anyone's trying to argue that you never see more than one monster at a time, but that's not the same as saying you can't fight one at a time. 15:18:18 crystall_wall: I actually agree that it would be an improvement though 15:18:20 I have a question that I bet has been asked a bunch but I couldn't find anything searching the chat logs. what is the rationale on the fully random distribution for damage? I've never really questioned it, but I've read several people asking why it's not more of a Normal distribution instead. I'm guessing the reason is, that's how it's always been and switching to a different distribution... 15:18:22 PleasingFungus: that's desirable IMO 15:18:22 ...will require a ton more rebalancing. but is there a typical answer to this? 15:18:26 elliptic: it is??? 15:18:29 yes? 15:18:31 Lasty_: i am saying that often you can't get 1v1, not that you never can 15:18:32 no? 15:18:35 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:18:36 why would that be good? 15:18:37 different stats should be independent here 15:18:39 why? 15:18:39 elliptic: wait right. I mean, count stats that were lost, then rand2(number_of_stats_that_are_lost) and return the choosen one of them 15:18:43 -!- t4nk262 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18:48 the reason why it is bad is that it means that having your strength drained by 1 point means that you restore int more slowly 15:18:54 crystall_wall: that's what that loop does 15:18:56 why can't you? other monsters; bad terrain (there are a fair number of pretty open depths setups) 15:19:01 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:04 gammafunk: but it calls the random wrongly 15:19:08 crystall_wall: that's at least as complicated as how the current code works (and would give the same effect) 15:19:10 didn't anyone here have a mathematics class 15:19:14 elliptic: that seems fine to me. 15:19:21 ackack: in my experience, it's pretty rare that you a) can't get 1v1 or so, and 2) can't escape. When I'm in that situation, I immediately flag it as an absolute emergency, no matter how good my health is. 15:19:22 certainly you can occasionally use resources to escape bad situations, and that's fine and good and what those resources are for 15:19:35 crystall_wall: not it doesn't, you don't get how it's making the distribution 15:19:44 i disagree with the idea that because those resources exist we need to keep adding monsters that consume more and more of them 15:19:45 it's not making the distribution like random2 does 15:19:51 it's making the same distribution though 15:19:54 just in a different way 15:20:02 while (1) ( int i = random2(NUM_STATS); if (you.stat_loss[i] > 0) return static_cast(i); ) 15:20:14 augh 15:20:17 haha 15:20:22 O(∞) is good enough for us 15:20:22 oh wheals 15:20:29 hahaha 15:20:29 * PleasingFungus weeps. 15:20:30 PleasingFungus: well, it isn't how I expected the code to work for sure 15:20:38 elliptic: imho 15:20:45 just remove stat restoration over time 15:20:47 for all races 15:20:50 sure that would be good anyway 15:20:51 since it's terrible 15:20:52 :) 15:20:54 ya 15:21:25 but if it is going to restore over time, I'd say that the expected time to restore 5 points of int drain shouldn't depend on whether any other stats are drained too 15:21:29 not really a big deal though 15:21:43 ackack: I think it's good to add monsters that force you to consume resources sometimes, but I don't think octopode crushers are those monsters. They're just really not very scary unless either you intentionally put yourself in harm's way or get teleported into a corner next to one, and even in that case, they're less threatening than most scary things, since they'll helpfully take you out of the corner. 15:21:44 ya if you changed it to work the way that your intuition argues for, I wouldn't be *heartbroken* 15:21:48 it's just not how my intuititon works 15:21:53 Lasty_: not very scary? 15:21:54 *intuition 15:22:07 I can agree to disagree on this one 15:22:16 elliptic: what do you think about a stat drain mechanic that drains more points of the stat on application, but has a corrosion-like duration? 15:22:19 ackack: yes, because you almost never are forced to engage with them at close range for any significant length of time. 15:22:41 e.g. stat drain is simply temporary but generally more severe with each application 15:22:49 my personal feeling is that crawl has design space for both short-term, high-intensity "corrosion-like" stat damage 15:22:52 if they were melee only, again, i'd be more inclined to agree 15:22:57 or drain-like 15:22:57 gammafunk: not sure, I don't really like anything that makes it more likely for people to get statzeroed during a fight 15:22:59 and long-term, strategic stat damage 15:23:10 but it's not like you can just sort of ignore them while you kill other things and then walk away 15:23:12 I don't think that current stat damage fits at all, tho 15:23:18 it's an ugly in-the-middle 15:23:24 I mean, shrikes are scary because they force you to engage; liches and titans are scary because they can do scary things the entire time they're on screen. Crushers are only scary if you choose to spend time near them. 15:23:25 gammafunk: because statzero effects are extremely nasty 15:23:31 you know, I'm going to do more research on my own rather than assuming those other guys knew what they were talking about 15:23:40 elliptic: well if we had all stat damage be temporary, we could remove those effects 15:23:45 or perhaps greatly modify them 15:23:52 If you choose to stay away from a crusher, it has no way to prevent that and no way to harm you. 15:23:52 johnstein: sounds good. what are you researching? 15:24:00 gammafunk: right, obviously those effects aren't set in stone 15:24:08 gammafunk: just explaining why I'm unsure about the idea :) 15:24:13 gammafunk: question: should berserkers care about int? 15:24:16 yeah, I understand 15:24:22 or defe care about str? 15:24:27 actual question 15:24:48 Lasty_: as i said, considering monster danger solely from a perspective of "this is the only monster that exists" (which i think you're doing implicitly here) seems bad to me, but i guess that's all i can say on the subject 15:24:50 PleasingFungus: IMO, no. People should care about stats because of the good things raising them does, not the possibility of stat damage. 15:25:04 like it is bad if berserkers with 6 int can be paralyzed + superslowed in a single turn of int drain, for instance 15:25:15 for me crushers are one of the most noteworthy monsters in depths at the moment, along with spriggan defenders, shrikes, maybe air mages 15:25:16 (I don't really like this with 3 int either, which is how things are currently) 15:25:33 ackack: I'm not pretending that only this one monster exists. What about other monsters causes crushers to become more scary? 15:25:50 the idea that you don't have to spend time near them is making assumptions about what else is in your environs 15:26:15 imagine, hypothetically, a spriggan defender is between you and the stairs. 15:26:59 very large majority of opc deaths I've observed have been: 1v1 or the player has already been surrounded by tons of dudes and was in deep poo before engaging the crusher 15:26:59 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:29 ackack: I see two cases, 1) the other monsters in your LOS can't make your life miserable, in which case you can walk away; or 2) the other monsters in your LOS can make your life miserable, thereby forcing you to deal with them, thereby giving the crusher a chance to get close enough to do something unless you do the reasonable thing and GTFO using consumables because there are too many dangerous things in LOS and they're making your life miserable. 15:27:31 now I'm counting opc deaths so maybe that's unfair 15:27:34 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:25 so yes, there's always tele, i love tele 15:28:26 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:47 i do not consider it a great success of fun to have a very high density of encounters go "oops, this cluster looks bad, let me tele and try again so i can pull some things aside" 15:29:04 ackack: or haste, or fog, or summons, or blink/cblink, or passage, or invis, or digging, or whatever else tilts the odds back in your favor. 15:29:07 many people seem to want this in crawl, where a high density of encounters are very dangerous 15:29:17 PleasingFungus: I guess my response to your question is what Lasty_ said; defe do care about str reasonably imo, since they should wear some armour eventually 15:29:35 berserkers maybe not, but we could also make int more attractive to them in other ways I guess 15:29:58 my vague suspicion is that our current stats aren't well-defined 15:30:03 I don't think it would be terrible for int to have a general purpose, but I think it probably should not be directly aiding melee combat 15:30:21 yeah and yeah 15:30:22 well. let me try that again 15:31:11 they're not completely ill-defined, stats I mean, but their utility is the result of the accumulation of a lot of disparate changes to gameplay over time 15:31:23 ackack: It sounds like you're making the argument that we should have fewer monsters that, in conjunction with other scary monsters, are scary. 15:31:29 right now we have a stat for being good at all kinds of spells, a stat for being good at dodging and also sneaking and also slightly better at physical combat in a variety of minor ways, and a stat for having better defenses & being better at physical combat in a variety of minor ways. 15:31:38 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:05 Lasty_: i'm more making the argument that the overall flow/gameplay of dcss as it exists in say 0.15/early 0.16 is good 15:32:07 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:32:46 ackack: well what changed post-early-0.16? 15:32:47 ackack: Oh, well, I suppose I agree with that. Crushers were added before that, tho, and I think they're part of that just-fine flow. 15:33:15 gammafunk: i threw that in just to say that i found depths to be a reasonable level pre-shrikes. i do not think shrikes have ruined depths, and i have not seen new-new-shrikes 15:33:32 stats are essentially a "harder" tool for determining long-term character capabilities - operating in parallel to skills, but in ways that scale differently over the course of the game. it's a lot harder to cast spells if you put all your stats into dex rather than int in the early game; putting all your skills into sbl/dodging/stealth early game doesn't making spellcasting really harder at... 15:33:33 ...all, later... 15:33:37 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:54 -!- somebody1 is now known as somebody 15:33:57 that's... probably a reasonable thing to have? stats, I mean? 15:34:06 oh god, new-new-shrikes with new-new-new-new-new-nemelex and hopefully new-statdrain and new-new stats and you will enjoy Depths I guarantee it (tm) 15:34:07 PleasingFungus: that seems like a good distinction, but i'm not sure i'd agree that it's a lot harder to cast 15:34:21 less powerful, sure 15:34:51 to cast effectively, then 15:35:12 idk. ~6 int is a big swing 15:35:34 lots of power, only 1 level in all schools from an xp perspective though 15:35:40 6 int is also the majority of your selected stats 15:35:48 if it wasn't a lot, that'd be problematic 15:36:11 PleasingFungus: yeah I think of stats in terms of these decisions wrt to er, ev, and spell power and that's about it; it seems there's not too much that alters my original stat plan at start 15:36:34 but finding some amazing piece of armour might make me take more str 15:36:53 maybe you want better constriction damage on your Op 15:37:00 it's funny to say, but I wonder if str might be a model stat in some ways 15:37:17 since it's the one that affects your character's capabilities the most 15:37:25 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37:39 a str 11 character can straight up do stuff a str 5 character can't (wear decent armour and hope to ever cast anything) 15:37:40 Arguably Int should be the model stat because it exclusively affects one type of thing 15:37:51 Lasty_: it affects a lot of things 15:38:10 str is critical if you're going to be doing anything in heavy armour 15:38:13 which you probably should be 15:38:20 well it affects one thing: spellcasting, but yeah a lot of effects within that, or at least multiple 15:38:22 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:38:29 I only think of spell power and spell hunger 15:38:58 there's casting rates as well, but that's basically in tandem with spell power 15:39:02 there are indirect effects as well, since that means that you might choose to invest less xp in spells and more xp in other things 15:39:44 PleasingFungus: What does int affect other than spellcasting success and power? 15:39:51 stats remind me a lot of skills, really 15:39:53 spell hunger, for one 15:39:58 except they're more general-purpose and there aren't as many 15:39:58 Oh, right, that 15:40:25 ais523_: we can't get rid of stats! What would we put on otherwise-vanilla artifacts?! 15:40:42 let's face it: stats are like monster::number 15:40:45 skill bonuses? 15:40:49 Lasty_: those three things, yes. 15:41:01 although, say, a randart sword with +5 axes would mostly just be trolling 15:41:04 hahaha 15:41:05 yesss 15:41:06 it's the sort of thing xom would come up with 15:41:11 I kind of like that idea, actually. 15:41:14 it's very diablo 15:41:17 PleasingFungus: no you don't 15:41:20 yes I do 15:41:23 do not 15:41:27 I mean stat bonuses on items 15:41:29 *skill 15:41:34 not specifically the ax + sword thing 15:41:44 though that *would* make a great xom gift 15:41:57 Crash when Robin showed up 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9228 by vonbrand 15:42:02 heh 15:42:08 PleasingFungus: Right, so what I was saying is that Int only affects one type of thing: spellcasting. It's very clear when Int is good: when you want more spell-related goodness. One ideal of stats would be to make each one that clear. I'm not necessarily endorsing that tho 15:42:10 who to blame who to blame 15:42:29 colours, weird 15:42:43 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:05 I guess the real problem with stats, according to Crawl design philosophy, is that for any given build, it's normally obvious which stat you pump 15:43:09 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:28 PleasingFungus: researching my other question of the distribution used when computing damage. I've heard several people criticize the 'random' distribution vs 'normal', which they say results in a lot of 'miss, miss, miss, critical hit'. but I'm not sure if they just have confirmation bias or if maybe that's really how it is and it's that way for a reason 15:43:48 Lasty_: well, there are actually cases where you want to pump str over int to get better success rates. 15:44:02 I'm not sure that's /necessarily/ a bad thing, because it restricts what sort of changes to your build you can make midgame in a natural way 15:44:03 somewhere between chain and plate, iirc. 15:44:17 johnstein: my big complaint about the randomness of damage is that it makes it very hard to figure out how dangerous a monster is from experiment 15:44:18 (discovered this when testing orange crystal plate.) 15:44:23 allright, that function seems correct after all, PleasingFungus 15:44:33 ais523_: well, that's less true if you haven't chosen a specific Build and are instead trying to make the best choice at each moment. Choosing a Build is generally suboptimal, IMO. Except "Berserker", which sort of plays itself. 15:44:36 crystall_wall: np. I had a similar reaction the first time I encountered a variant of it 15:44:44 it's a weird algorithm 15:44:51 how ever, something else must be wrong, or how it could be that Int dropped by 10 points over time, while Str and Dex only at -1 to 0 15:44:55 if you see a monster that you've never seen before, there's very little way for a melee player to determine whether they can safely fight it, even after they're in combat with it 15:44:59 johnstein: some people don't like the damage variance from the uniform vs something more normal, yeah but I'm not sure what your question is 15:45:03 PleasingFungus: thre must be a bug there 15:45:06 crystall_wall: there are a number of monsters that drain int. 15:45:10 whereas in NetHack, basically nothing does enough damage that you can't just take a few hits to see how much damage they do 15:45:25 PleasingFungus: I play for years I know. Only source of dropping Int is deterioating, and it is in fact at level 1 15:45:29 (which is a problem in its own right, but it's a different problem) 15:45:31 also, items, like the crystal ball of energy or staff of wucad mu. 15:45:40 crystall_wall: sounds like you got shit luck 15:45:41 tbh 15:45:42 neqoxecs, norris 15:45:44 gammafunk: my question boils down to, are they just suffering from confirmation bias? or is the variance really that high? 15:45:51 ackack: brain worms......... 15:45:53 yep 15:46:02 PleasingFungus: no it's just continous triggering of losing "your body decompose 15:46:16 but I realized that is probably an easy question to answer if I just take some time to look through the code 15:46:27 PleasingFungus: impossible to be just luck.choosed int 10 times over other things, what is chance of that, 3^10 ? 15:46:40 johnstein: Crawl's damage formulas have much higher variance than those in most games, yes 15:46:44 well, you said it's not that. 15:46:51 you said that str and dex each dropped a little bit. 15:47:03 that raises the odds considerably. 15:47:04 -!- abullrd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:47:09 johnstein: monster damage is basically 1dDamage - (0 to AC), so yeah, there's a lot of variance. That aspect is not just confirmation bias. 15:47:25 PleasingFungus: by 1. at meomn 2 str. deterioating 1 is not supposed to cause zstat edeath 15:47:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:47:49 PleasingFungus: btw I loaded savegame , it always destroys the Int 15:48:07 it doesn't cause stat deat. 15:48:07 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48:19 Are you playing locally? 15:48:41 PleasingFungus: yeah. well, stat 0 to be exact 15:49:00 If you can host your save, that might be helpful. 15:49:06 Also, which version are you playing? 15:50:18 johnstein: well the variance of a normal is its own parameter you can just set to whatever value independently of the mean, but the uniform(a,b) has variance that's basically proportional to (b-a)^2 15:50:19 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:50:37 johnstein: the swinginess is compounded by the way added fire/cold damage work: if the attack gets past AC, a gigantic extra wad of elemental damage is added to the total damage (reduced by resistances) 15:50:48 ??dmg 15:50:48 I don't have a page labeled dmg in my learndb. Did you mean: dg, dig. 15:50:54 ??damage 15:50:55 damage[1/1]: See {weapon damage}, {unarmed combat} 15:50:56 so against some monsters you'll end up getting 0 damage, 0 damage, 0 damage, 60 damage 15:51:02 ??weapon damage 15:51:02 weapon damage[1/3]: Approximately: 1d(base*strength_bonus)*skill_bonus + 1d(to_dam + slaying) + various bonuses. Weapon {brand} is applied after monster AC reduction. 15:51:08 white very ugly thing (16u) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 18 | HP: 79-118 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 2712(cold:18-53) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold++ | Vul: 11silver | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1447 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 15:51:08 %?? white very ugly thing 15:51:09 johnstein: so its variance is higher with a higher range; you could do averaging of discrete uniform to decrease the variance or use a normal approx and set the variance to be lower 15:51:15 PleasingFungus: f7beed7a6853614331b316f3cc403ec32d90b920 get that version and mutate yourself and wait 15:51:20 but yes the variance of discrete uniforms is "high" 15:51:22 %git f7beed7a6853614331b3 15:51:22 07reaverb02 * 0.16-a0-1794-gf7beed7: Reduce the numbers of derived undead in late D 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7beed7a6853 15:51:27 three months ago, neat 15:51:29 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:51:40 actually could you tell me how to in wizard mode give myself deterioating1 and kill all monsters or move to template level? 15:51:45 %git f7beed7a6853614331b3~1 15:51:45 07gammafunk02 * 0.16-a0-1793-g6b39ce7: Tweak very ugly thing bands and Vaults placement 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 9+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b39ce7e4cae 15:51:57 crystall_wall: There's a list of controls in &?. 15:52:10 lasty/gammafunk ty for the extra explanations. has anyone ever tried to adjust the variance? or is it something that has already been assessed as probably not the right approach? 15:52:22 crystall_wall: You want &], &G, &~T, respectively. 15:52:23 For example, if you have 27 AC and no rC+ a white very ugly thing does 0 damage very roughly half the time and something like an average of 40 damage the other half of the time 15:52:37 johnstein: I think the idea is we have random damage for a reason, and if we didn't like variance we'd just make damage fixed 15:52:59 it would be bad to do it e.g. only for melee damage and not for other forms, for instance 15:53:02 there is presumably a middle ground. 15:53:38 I don't know what's "wrong" with uniform damage though; the fact that monsters aren't as easy to kill? we can make them easier in other ways 15:54:08 gammafunk: I think I'm really asking, does lowering the variance at all make any sense. obviously a variance of 0 would be fixed. Just seems like there's a spectrum and what I'm trying to better understand is whether there's any practical impact on adjusting the variance. 15:54:36 IMO uniform damage is problematic because it encourages players to tell themselves "okay, I can take exactly two more hits before I run away" instead of thinking "Ouch, this hurts! I'd better run away!" 15:54:37 gammafunk: oh and I'm not saying anything is wrong or anything. it's just something I keep seeing people bring up so I finally decided to try to dig into the background some more 15:55:01 -!- TMTurtle_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:55:07 johnstein: it makes sense in the sense it would have a definite impact on killing monsters, depending on all the details of like the attack, the monster in question, etc. it's not wrong to consider using other distributions for damage, certainly 15:55:18 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:55:44 gammafunk: basically, it's not as dumb as asking for two-headed Ogre player races and dual-wield amulets? :) 15:56:08 Lasty_: wait, that's more of a problem with more gaussian damage? 15:56:22 he said uniform damage 15:56:31 I was reading Lasty's comment as 'fixed damage' 15:56:43 gammafunk: oh, you mean uniform distribution of damage as opposed to uniform damage? 15:56:47 I know I'm saying uniform damage doesn't have the problem he's saying it does 15:56:53 Lasty_: yes! 15:56:57 uniform distribution 15:57:01 gammafunk: oh, then I retract what I said 15:57:06 I thought you meant fixed damage 15:57:07 vs. something more gaussian 15:57:40 yeah fixed is an extreme past gaussian in terms of the variance; I should really be saying "average of uniform distribution" instead of gaussian because that's what we'd consider I guess 15:57:49 but by averaging you're making it more normal-like 15:57:54 I think uniform damage works well: if you start curving the distribution people get more surprised and outraged when receiving outliers. 16:00:37 people complain about the "almost dead" monster situation going on "forever", and lowering the damage variance can decrease the prevelance of this to a degree, but I don't think the former is really a problem and addressing it with the latter seems bad since it introduces predictability like what Lasty_ was talking about with fixed damage 16:01:05 but maybe someone can make a great roguelike with totally different types of damage and I'm dumb 16:02:42 critical hits are a think from Sil people talk about, for instance, so I guess other approaches are out there 16:02:53 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:03:12 Hmm PleasingFungus , deterioating1 should mostly be around -0,-0,-0 right? or oscilating -1 -2 near that values right? 16:03:25 That's my understanding. 16:03:41 Since it decreases your stats at the exact same rate as they're restored. 16:03:48 gammafunk: I'd like to write a roguelike with no tactical randomness at some point, as an experiment (i.e. only randomness is in level gen) 16:03:58 actually, I think Desktop Dungeons is already like that 16:04:04 (i.e. only randomness is level gen) 16:04:29 dang 16:04:36 Desktop Dungeons is very good. 16:04:45 Though I never got into the pay version. 16:04:45 -!- Krakhan has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:49 same 16:04:59 Crawl is a very different game, though. 16:05:01 I played only like a few dungeons in the preview 16:05:12 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:05:46 -!- Bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:06:04 PleasingFungus: but Desktop Dungeons has the Orb of Zot! 16:06:27 I don't remember that. 16:06:48 someone told me it and the amulet of yendor are in the final version 16:06:57 but that person was Canadian...so... 16:07:05 canadians!!!! 16:07:30 God, I am *so sick* of canadians. 16:08:04 1learn add famous_last_words 16:08:13 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:08:38 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:39 im plotting your downfall w/ the other canadians as we speak 16:10:59 !!! 16:12:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: sorry about the tensions last night 16:12:58 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I'm not offended, but I worry that MoogleDan etc would be, and that it has the potential for bad press 16:13:10 bad press 16:13:12 huh 16:13:13 ok 16:13:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:13:19 well, there's no urgency on anything, obviously 16:13:26 all is as it has been, now and forever, amen 16:13:44 I have plenty of other projects to keep me busy. 16:15:21 |amethyst: the funny thing was when I asked them to have an account they were like "oh great a crawl dev finally wants to edit" and were generally very responsive, and helped clean up my few edits 16:15:40 and then others have asked and apparently not gotten a response 16:15:53 clearly they learned their lesson with you! 16:15:54 <|amethyst> right now I think no one can create an account 16:15:57 ouch 16:16:09 <|amethyst> (I mean, even by email; they're running into DB problems maybe?) 16:16:10 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:55 <|amethyst> I think a partnership could work, and would be more productive and less disruptive than a takeover 16:17:13 yeah it's just true that if we were to run our own wiki, regardless of where the content came from, it'd be more work for dev people and possibly money as well 16:17:15 <|amethyst> but e.g. opening up account creation would require a lot of work for somebody 16:17:18 meh ok maybe that str zero was really bad luck 16:17:38 <|amethyst> because online account creation = spambots 16:17:49 yeah 16:18:00 <|amethyst> when I did contribute to the wiki, before becoming a dev, there were as many spam edits as non- 16:18:12 ah, maybe it was a lot worse then 16:18:16 <|amethyst> which is part of the reason they closed down account creation when they moved 16:18:24 <|amethyst> well, now you have to email to request an account 16:18:27 well...right yeah it was open, so it would be 16:18:46 <|amethyst> but then it's easy to get behind on those requests 16:24:47 i guess that robin crash is my fault 16:27:01 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 16:27:25 !lg * ikiller~~robin ckiller!=player_ghost 16:27:26 9. Phillip the Caller (L3 DESu), slain by a goblin (a +0 dagger) (led by Robin) on D:3 on 2014-11-19 21:54:34, with 53 points after 1754 turns and 0:04:06. 16:27:32 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:27:36 !lg * ikiller~~robin ckiller!=player_ghost s=ktyp 16:27:39 9 games for * (ikiller~~robin ckiller!=player_ghost): 7x mon, 2x beam 16:27:44 !lg * ikiller~~robin ckiller!=player_ghost ktyp=beam 1 16:27:45 1/2. schwarznadel the Sneak (L3 DsAs), shot by a goblin (stone) (led by Robin) on D:2 on 2014-11-19 10:41:50, with 56 points after 1306 turns and 0:03:45. 16:27:49 !lg * ikiller~~robin ckiller!=player_ghost ktyp=beam 2 16:27:50 2. Arctirus the Sneak (L3 SpAs), shot by a goblin (sling bullet) (led by Robin) on D:2 on 2014-11-19 20:28:06, with 41 points after 1182 turns and 0:06:14. 16:27:54 PleasingFungus: :( 16:27:58 !lg * killer=robin 16:27:59 2. Mandragora the Skirmisher (L4 MfWn), slain by Robin (a +0 spear) on D:2 on 2014-11-19 19:21:40, with 75 points after 1718 turns and 0:04:30. 16:28:01 !lg * killer=robin 1 16:28:02 1/2. PolkaDot the Caller (L2 VpSu), slain by Robin (a +4 spear of piercing) on D:2 on 2014-11-19 19:17:58, with 28 points after 1244 turns and 0:02:51. 16:28:06 good spear 16:28:20 !lg * vmsg~~goblin_thrown 16:28:21 No games for * (vmsg~~goblin_thrown). 16:28:35 !lg * vmsg~~thrown 16:28:37 31. Mersau1t the Imperceptible (L19 VpEn of Ashenzari), thrown by an octopode crusher on Depths:2 on 2014-11-19 09:47:41, with 273699 points after 61667 turns and 9:17:00. 16:28:44 !lg * ikiller~~seraph 16:28:46 12. cantitbeboth the Covert (L5 SpAs), blasted by Seraphtheol's ghost (magic dart) on D:3 on 2014-11-06 21:26:54, with 180 points after 2654 turns and 0:22:07. 16:28:51 lol 16:28:58 rip 16:29:09 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:52 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:30:20 !lg * ikiller=seraph 16:30:21 1. CarbonBasedLifeform the Eclecticist (L25 OpFE of Vehumet), shot by a seraph (arrow) in Pandemonium (evilmike_holy_pan) on 2012-03-30 17:32:20, with 487199 points after 37060 turns and 7:19:49. 16:30:40 !lg * ikiller=seraph x=dam,tdam 16:30:41 1. [dam=48;tdam=48] CarbonBasedLifeform the Eclecticist (L25 OpFE of Vehumet), shot by a seraph (arrow) in Pandemonium (evilmike_holy_pan) on 2012-03-30 17:32:20, with 487199 points after 37060 turns and 7:19:49. 16:30:46 good dmg 16:30:49 !lg * pan current t4unk 16:30:50 No keyword 't4unk' 16:30:52 !lg * pan current trunk 16:30:53 115. 1qwe123 the Master Archer (L27 HEHu of Okawaru), mangled by Mnoleg in Pandemonium (mnoleg) on 2014-11-19 08:12:56, with 718928 points after 92620 turns and 5:33:42. 16:30:57 ! 16:31:02 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:04 imo gamma4unk 16:31:10 !lg * pan current trunk -2 16:31:10 114/115. Mousus6 the Imperceptible (L27 SpEn of Gozag), slain by Shrynuhi the pandemonium lord (kmap: grunt_pan_pentagram) in Pandemonium on 2014-11-18 13:06:01, with 736678 points after 102285 turns and 8:28:36. 16:31:14 mnogled 16:31:14 . 16:31:17 !lg * pan current trunk -3 16:31:18 113/115. bza the Annihilator (L27 DEFE of Vehumet), slain by a Brimstone Fiend (kmap: evilmike_mini_pan_thingy) in Pandemonium on 2014-11-18 11:26:44, with 783075 points after 97681 turns and 10:55:30. 16:31:23 !lg * pan current trunk s=ikiller 16:31:24 115 games for * (pan current trunk): 13x a hellion, 12x Cerebov, 9x a Brimstone Fiend, 7x Lom Lobon, 7x, 7x Mnoleg, 7x a Hell Sentinel, 5x a balrug, 4x a torturous warmonger, 4x a daeva, 4x an Executioner, 3x Gloorx Vloq, 2x a blizzard demon, 2x an infernal warmonger, 2x a cacodemon, 2x a monstrous corrupter, Miaprut the pandemonium lord, an Ice Fiend, Ulimarch, Choh the pandemonium lord, the play... 16:31:36 woah 7x mnoleg? 16:31:37 fr cikiller / ickiller 16:31:37 da hek 16:31:48 poor Gloorx 16:31:59 imo buff Gloorx 16:32:09 hrm, why Ulimarch, is that a player ghost? 16:32:17 Grunt: keep in mind that goblin throwing does joke damage 16:32:31 !lg * pan current trunk ikiller=Ulimarch 16:32:32 1. AFRikal the Comforter (L27 DDFi of Elyvilon), blasted by a hellion (burst of hellfire) (summoned by Ulimarch) in Pandemonium on 2014-11-12 03:43:52, with 834661 points after 61759 turns and 5:47:52. 16:32:35 as in it tells you a bad pun instead of doing damage? 16:32:37 mm 16:32:42 essentially 16:32:45 ic 16:32:56 1learn add joke_damage 16:32:58 i i r c it's 1d4 16:33:01 pre-ac 16:33:01 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:33:05 heh 16:33:14 but felids! 16:33:16 PleasingFungus: imo start an Op and get that death 16:33:40 that'd be cheating 16:34:21 !lg mnoleg ckiller=mnoleg 16:34:21 3. Mnoleg the Bringer of Life (L13 DDHe of Elyvilon), slain by Mnoleg in Pandemonium (evilmike_mnoleg_eyes) on 2012-11-24 12:39:18, with 46866 points after 17010 turns and 1:44:55. 16:34:23 !lm vonbrand crash 16:34:23 No milestones for vonbrand (crash). 16:34:37 !lm muril crash 16:34:37 No milestones for muril (crash). 16:34:44 rip 16:35:09 !lg * ckiller=murray 16:35:10 1. Ghoradinn the Ninja (L23 VSEn of Okawaru), slain by Murray in Hell (vestibule_of_hell_subvaulted; vestibule_geryon_mu) on 2014-05-30 17:58:57, with 387970 points after 54802 turns and 8:28:41. 16:35:28 !killratio murray . 16:35:30 No battles for murray and Grunt. 16:35:32 late but, are captchas not effective in deterring bots? 16:35:34 rip 16:35:39 do they just use captcha farms? 16:35:54 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:36:03 re: wiki account creation 16:36:17 oh i was confused 16:36:22 qw should write a wiki guide imo 16:36:26 haha 16:36:42 Please enter the CAPTCHA to pick up the Orb of Zot. 16:37:47 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:37:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:38:03 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 16:42:49 Grunt: btw, I'm still not sure about debugging sdl/opengl issues, but it may be that the hangs are occuring in calls to glTransform() 16:43:16 that seems to be the function I interrupt in gdb when I ctrl-c after triggering this "slow response after resize" issue 16:43:42 the glTransform being when it tries to set the cell to draw I think? 16:43:56 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 16:43:59 it seems to be translating the pixel buffer thingy that way, but I may be totally off there 16:45:08 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:03 You now have enough gold to bribe branches to halt enemies' attacks and recruit allies. 16:49:16 kind of verbose...I guess it's better to just say what it does then and there 16:49:21 but there is the a screen 16:50:31 "to bribe branches' inhabitants" could be good, maybe? 16:51:07 yeah 16:51:15 on the wiki: captchas are ineffective against ots, and hosting it would cost ~$15/mo, ie essentially free, given server owners probably all pay more than that 16:51:39 plus, the style of problems currently occurring makes me believe the administrators are near incompetent 16:51:57 hrm 16:52:12 so I bought an assorted antique shop that placed on d:15 16:52:15 but there was another one as well 16:52:21 so I'm not sure which was from G 16:53:50 yeah and there's no note, apparently 16:54:03 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:54:41 ok, I think this cyan hilight in the stash search is the one I bought 16:55:06 this was a thing that confused a bunch of people, I noticed, when G says something like "blah sets up shop in the dungeon" 16:55:19 people are confused as to where, and the only indication is the symbol on ctrl-o 16:58:56 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:52 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:56 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2466-g4f33c87: Remove an unneeded member from struct bolt. 10(9 hours ago, 6 files, 34+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f33c8768d86 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2467-gc79d677: Move ghost crabs from Crypt to Swamp. 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c79d677febc9 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2468-g92305d0: Simplify. 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=92305d03834e 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2469-g6526ce2: Change two of Kiku's titles to work better as player titles. 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6526ce2b265b 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2470-gea8c925: Remove an unncessary field of Branch. 10(20 minutes ago, 5 files, 36+ 48-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ea8c925e7b34 17:00:26 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2471-ge3673ec: Deduplicate code slightly. 10(67 seconds ago, 2 files, 8+ 26-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3673ec56812 17:02:03 gammafunk: "On level 15 of the Dungeon"? 17:02:17 yeah that alone would help 17:02:18 !crashlog vonbrand 17:02:19 No milestones for vonbrand (crash). 17:02:36 ...great a grunt depths vault 17:02:42 apparently friendly wind drakes can blow you back 17:03:07 heh 17:03:09 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:34 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:47 -!- |amethyst has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:08:50 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst 17:09:00 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:10:09 -!- |amethyst has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:13 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:49 -!- crawlTV has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:54 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:20:42 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-2465-g0f9d4c6 (34) 17:20:48 Ctrl+F does not work properly with chunks 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9229 by Sandman25 17:21:13 -!- CcS has quit [] 17:22:25 -!- JuicyPear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:53 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: is that one fixed in 06606e7 ? 17:23:17 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:20 %git 06606e7 17:23:20 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2413-g06606e7: Fix autoexplore chunk confusion (9094) 10(31 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06606e7a7df6 17:23:29 <|amethyst> sounds like it would be---I always assumed that bug was ultimately the same as the explore loop 17:23:45 oh my god up_stairs and down_stairs :( 17:23:52 it is either fixed by or caused by 06606e7. 17:23:55 !function up_stairs 17:23:56 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/stairs.cc;hb=HEAD#l332 17:24:01 wheals: they're beautiful :) 17:24:24 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that submitter's commit is older (-2354) and I definitely saw this problem a week or more ago 17:24:36 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: so sounds like it would be fixed 17:24:38 ah. then it's probably fixed by that, yes. 17:25:12 up_stairs() // XXX should be removed -crate 17:25:28 wait 17:25:32 since when does he get to leave comments in source 17:25:37 this is terrifying! 17:25:46 PleasingFungus: I am crate. 17:25:53 <|amethyst> wheals: this is after Zannick (I think) cleaned up some of the duplication 17:25:53 !!!!!!!! 17:25:53 ikr 17:25:56 // TODO(Zannick): Fully merge with up_stairs into take_stairs. 17:26:18 !!!!!!!! 17:26:27 I think that's the second time I've pinged you with that 17:26:31 and you still haven't done it! 17:26:34 // TODO(Zannick): Slack off. 17:26:34 god, how lazy.......... 17:26:38 :p 17:26:41 Zannick: keep up the good work 17:26:45 hey, make me a dev and i'll do it 17:26:58 I think you've got that the wrong way around 17:27:00 do you really want him to call you on your bluff 17:27:02 :) 17:27:06 probably in december since i'm in nanowrimo now 17:27:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: resolved; should I assign it to you for the record? 17:27:15 |amethyst: follow your heart 17:27:25 mantis ticket assignments are MEGA important. 17:27:52 otherwise how will I meet my OKRs for Q4 FY2014? 17:28:22 <|amethyst> hm 17:28:28 <|amethyst> reports are busted again 17:28:32 ??? 17:28:32 has Q4 FY2014 started yet? 17:28:36 <|amethyst> happens every time the server moves 17:28:39 wheals: doesn't that depend on the company? 17:28:51 <|amethyst> ttps://crawl.develz.org/mantis/print_all_bug_page.php https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_graph_page.php 17:29:01 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:02 i guess i was just thinking of tax-based 17:29:05 when does the crawl FY start 17:29:11 |amethyst: oh, so not bug reports 17:29:24 <|amethyst> wheals: my fiscal year is August to July, so I don't even know when Q4 is 17:29:28 (depending on where your company is charted the fiscal year can be set by ugh I hate this I'm not finishing this remark) 17:29:49 <|amethyst> wheals: right, bug report reports 17:29:59 <|amethyst> too meta for CDO 17:30:10 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:30:44 <|amethyst> I did get a chance in class today to say "Yeah, I'm going to need those TPS reports by the end of class" 17:30:58 <|amethyst> since they were working on test cases for a programming assignment 17:31:16 can we get them to make more crawl tests for us 17:32:16 <|amethyst> then I realised that most of them were three years old when that movie came out... 17:32:17 I think I want to try to set up some kind of piety test 17:32:28 // Magical level changes (Portal, Banishment) need this. 17:32:39 sequentially, for each god, spawn and kill a set of monsters while worshipping that god 17:32:47 and check whether you got rewarded/punished/ignored as appropriate 17:33:05 the real trick would be to check ally kills. no idea how I'd do that. 17:33:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that latter part is difficult except stochastically 17:33:13 wheals: Portal!!! 17:33:23 !send PleasingFungus cake 17:33:23 Sending cake to PleasingFungus. 17:33:30 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:33:37 |amethyst: I'd just be checking messages, I think 17:33:39 accepts your kill 17:33:49 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, could work 17:33:51 feels very guilty 17:33:53 yeah 17:34:15 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:23 btw if anyone could glance at _fire_kill_conduct and see if it looks reasonable, I'd appreciate it; I'm still not 100% sure the logic is right 17:34:42 and also it crashes when killing an angel with &k (but not otherwise), which seems odd 17:34:59 wow why are zot entering and V entering so different 17:35:09 *when killing a TSO-summoned angel with &k while following tso 17:35:15 implemented so differently, that is 17:35:31 wheals: probably because one was implemented many years after the others, and didn't ever have the silliness about dropping your runes inside 17:35:44 that's not really a justification ofc 17:35:47 hi all! 17:35:47 PleasingFungus: can code which crashes ever be correct? :) 17:35:55 &ctrl-c 17:36:02 vimpulse: yes! 17:36:09 if it's consuming catastrophically bad input 17:36:09 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: possibly related to the XP penalty 17:36:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:36:18 |amethyst: it crashes in is_monster_fiery or w/e 17:36:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if you ctrl-k the amount of damage maybe is zero 17:36:22 monster type 1000 17:36:22 <|amethyst> hm 17:37:33 wheals: oh, neat, there's code to support when we change zot to requiring exactly one rune. 17:37:43 (line 750-754.) 17:37:44 except that would trigger an assert right after 17:37:45 how convenient. 17:37:59 hahaha 17:38:45 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:39:17 ...I really appreciate that someone thought, "what if you're under Silence when opening the gate to the Realm of Zot for the first time?" 17:39:21 it's these little touches that matter. 17:39:37 wheals: don't forget the zig check, which is implemented in yet another way 17:39:46 -!- Schizzik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:40:03 yea 17:40:48 huh, flying protects against falling down the stairs 17:41:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:41:55 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:58 // Zotdef: returning from portals (e.g. bazaar) paralyses the player in 17:41:59 place for 5 moves. 17:42:03 I wonder if anything warns players about this 17:42:14 -!- Zilis is now known as Guest56540 17:44:09 Dear all: Portals to a sewer and an ossuary got generated on one level. I entered the sewer. 17:44:10 Why does the ossuary's timer continue to tick while I'm in the sewer? 17:44:22 -!- Stendhal has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:44:24 wrong channel 17:46:27 <|amethyst> so that there is a decision to be made 17:46:36 <|amethyst> wheals: depends on what e means by "why" 17:46:42 oh, i missed the why 17:47:05 |amethyst: ah :) Fair enough then. I picked the sewer. 17:47:27 <|amethyst> or, more immediately, because it goes by time, and time still passes in portal vaults 17:48:05 |amethyst: That could be special-cased. 17:48:23 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:48:28 -!- eliotn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:48:39 <|amethyst> yeah, would be annoying to implement (counting time spent elsewhere in D but not time spent in portals) but it would be possible 17:48:41 there was some discussion (last night? a few days ago?) about a invoc enhancer 17:48:41 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:51 <|amethyst> so then it goes back to the former question 17:49:00 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:00 The build has errored. (master - 5684410 #619 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41446810 17:49:00 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 17:49:06 what came of it? 17:49:15 <|amethyst> invo or evo? 17:49:27 i guess technically it's weird since the timer wasn't going before you entered the level 17:49:35 if I have that coding itch tonight, is it worth my while to write that or find something else that tickles my fancy 17:49:44 but then, it keeps going if you go deeper (and that definitely should not be changed) 17:49:49 -!- JuicyPear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:17 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:18 <|amethyst> ebering: one problem with either is that it's a lot of places to touch 17:50:34 <|amethyst> ebering: because unlike spells there isn't one place that calculates power for invocations 17:50:59 |amethyst: invo 17:51:01 "invo power" isn't really a well-defined thing, yeah, unlike spell power 17:51:11 "evo power" does exist for rods and wands, though 17:51:34 there are divine abilities that scale with invo though 17:51:48 and "card power," but i guess you'd have to special-case each misc item 17:51:48 a lot of them scale with piety 17:51:52 ebering: yeah, and the power level is defined in the functions that execute those powers 17:51:57 -!- speranza has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 17:52:03 arrrgghhhh 17:52:07 :) 17:52:13 and where exactly in the formula would the enhancer be, and so on 17:52:31 right at the end, obv 17:52:33 <|amethyst> giving an effective bonus to invocations skill might be easier 17:52:34 ok so this sounds like it goes in the 'find something else' heap 17:52:46 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:52:50 <|amethyst> would only work for some gods though 17:53:06 <|amethyst> giving an effective *piety* bonus would be too much like Faith imo 17:54:46 a straight bonus to the skill is sort of what I had in mind (and what I thought others had) in that discussion 17:55:05 oh, I was thinking of a power thing, but skill might be simpler 17:55:05 <|amethyst> that could work, but I wouldn't call it an "enhancer" 17:55:29 <|amethyst> and there's the question of what to do if the enhanced skill is over 27 17:55:37 are there other items that give skill boosts? 17:55:40 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:55:54 I don't think so. the only equivalent would be crosstraining & ash's skill boost 17:55:55 Speaking of gods, I'm trying to flesh out the design for the no-backtracking god. I'm thinking the remaining ability should be "Plant Flag", which can be used once per level to create an altar to the god and give some sort of bonus while still on the level -- +slaying? Perma-haste? The catch being that you can only plant the flag in limited circumstances. 17:56:02 <|amethyst> crosstraining, ash, and oka 17:56:03 and the code there is... iirc, muddy 17:56:08 <|amethyst> all of which cap at 27 17:56:09 Lasty: "Drop Portable Altar" 17:56:21 And then give piety for exploration + seeing new monsters + picking up runes 17:56:24 Lasty: perma-haste sounds like a huge design mess 17:56:50 did you have any idea on circumstances? 17:56:51 PleasingFungus: yeah, maybe bad idea. Anyway, some kind of big boost. 17:57:06 would the position of the flag be relevant once it was dropped? 17:57:08 perma-haste but all monsters are movespeed 16 17:57:08 PleasingFungus: Something like "the furthest point from all stairs" or "the exact center of the level" 17:57:09 <|amethyst> doesn't that kind of encourage you to farm? 17:57:30 |amethyst: hmm, perhaps so. Maybe cut all spawns once you plant your flag? 17:57:58 i guess that might work with no backtracking 17:58:00 PleasingFungus: the idea being you have to make your way to the point where the flag can be placed before you get the bonus 17:58:00 <|amethyst> but how will you know the exact centre, furthest point, etc, until you've explored the whole level 17:58:09 |amethyst: it'd be highlighted 17:58:12 |amethyst: presumably it'd be - yeah 17:58:14 from the moment you enter the level 17:58:15 <|amethyst> hm 17:58:18 Lasty: you weren't a fan of any of the ideas on the devwiki? 17:58:19 wrt abilities 17:58:38 PleasingFungus: I liked the health/regen one, and I stole it 17:58:43 I didn't like beasts 17:58:44 I was quite fond of the time stop idea(s) 17:58:47 beasts were bad. 17:58:59 Time stop seemed interesting but fiddly -- I didn't feel like it came together 17:59:01 though I think I might steal that for something else at some point 17:59:09 fiddly, really? 17:59:17 I'm not against time stop 17:59:18 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:59:26 Time stop is something I'll Worry About Later 17:59:33 hm 17:59:44 there was also the instaport idea 17:59:53 PleasingFungus: for some god, frenzybeasts is a cool idea, but it doesn't have a connection to the elements in this proposal overall 17:59:57 instaport + -ctele 18:00:00 instaport? Doesn't ring a bell. 18:00:02 Lasty: yeah no I agree completely 18:00:29 |amethyst: :p 18:00:29 good point, Chei 18:00:31 like teleport, but instant 18:00:38 perma-swiftness rather than perma-haste perhaps. it ties with the theme of always moving forward 18:00:41 wheals: Oh, yeah. I could get behind instaport. 18:00:41 see also: nethack 18:00:46 chequers: again a design mess 18:00:50 * wheals pokes Cheibriados 18:00:56 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2472-g2f2fc36: Don't print special branch messages on unbanishment etc. 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f2fc36e41d3 18:00:56 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2473-gddd4f72: Deduplicate a bit more. 10(27 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ddd4f72cf9d1 18:00:56 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2474-g9f66926: Clean up runelock code a bit. 10(2 minutes ago, 6 files, 20+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9f6692669ced 18:00:58 Did you all see the ** ability I added to the god, btw? 18:01:05 Lasty: specifically it was instant teleport with -ctele on landing 18:01:05 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:01:15 PleasingFungus: I could get behind that. Honestly, I just forgot. 18:01:23 <|amethyst> I am not sure about a huge bonus that you'll in pracitce get for almost every fight 18:01:25 and possibly a reroll or two (internal) so you don't flicker in place 18:01:28 i thought just permanent =ctele 18:01:31 s/=/i 18:01:34 er 18:01:36 s/i/- 18:01:42 wheals: why? 18:01:48 <|amethyst> (because you will avoid fights and beeline to the flag spot whenever possible) 18:01:56 seems like crate would like it!! 18:02:02 |amethyst: sounds like a good way to get surrounded by enemies? 18:02:09 Right now what I'm sure of is this: I want regen, +hp/mp, remove mana cap; I want the Blend In/Soul Walk ability, and I think I want the "no upstairs until you have no downstairs and have obtained a rune" conduct. I'm not yet sure what to do about tomb. 18:02:13 <|amethyst> hm, possibly 18:02:16 oh 18:02:21 we already solved tomb 18:02:32 PleasingFungus: the god-forges-a-path idea? 18:02:37 no 18:02:39 wheals and I had a more elegant version 18:02:41 ooo 18:02:42 tell me! 18:02:45 we did? 18:02:48 yes 18:03:20 "can't take upstairs when there's a downstairs or a rune pathable from your current position" iirc 18:03:22 also solves orc 18:03:29 does mean you can stairdance tomb:2 but not 3 18:03:34 which I think is an acceptable compromise 18:03:43 Lasty: you read the Rhundival stories? :) 18:03:50 dpeg: I haven't 18:03:53 wait 18:03:56 you mean the emails? 18:03:58 I read the emails 18:03:59 do it, there's a lot of overlap 18:04:00 yes 18:04:24 |amethyst: It was an easy sewer. I cleared it and made it into the ossuary. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to enter both portal vaults in time -- and I succeeded. :) 18:04:26 wheals: imo "vaults rune is always the first rune in enum order" is not a bug that needs fixing 18:04:32 <|amethyst> vimpulse: nice :) 18:04:42 it is unacceptable 18:04:44 truly 18:04:48 -!- crystall_wall has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:04:53 PleasingFungus: that sounds reasonable 18:04:54 / Keep kraken tentacles from wandering too far away from the boss monster. 18:04:54 static void _shedu_movement_clamp(monster *shedu) 18:05:10 Lasty: :) 18:05:16 took a lot of back and forth to get that one 18:05:18 dpeg: the god in the emails was a little too "stand and fight/territory defense" for me 18:05:22 PleasingFungus: Paid off tho! 18:05:23 wheals and dpeg and I all improved it 18:05:38 and maybe nrook too, I forget. he's been advising a lot of this 18:05:49 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:07 Lasty: fair enough... I think it's interesting to read what others came up with (you could certainly get Thundamoo's code, if you wanted to) 18:06:12 <|amethyst> wheals: re 2f2fc36e... what about returning to the vestibule from one of the Hells? 18:06:30 <|amethyst> wheals: I think they have ENTER_HELL as their exists, so I imagine you still get that message 18:06:30 pretty sure that didn't give the Enjoy your stay message before 18:06:35 <|amethyst> oh 18:06:54 but it's fine either way 18:06:55 imho 18:07:15 So here's what I've got: conduct is "no up stairs if downstairs or rune is pathable"; * is +mp/hp/regen/no mana cap, enhance at *** and *****, blend in at **, instateleport at ****? That sounds like enough stuff for one god. 18:07:28 Lasty: what I liked most about their god concept was to tie piety gain to "reach spot on map", and I thought there was talk about something similar over here 18:07:48 sure 18:07:55 dpeg: I liked that idea too. I just proposed a variant on it, but it sounds like |amethyst is worried about it 18:07:55 sorry, sure was @ lasty 18:08:04 I'm not very fond of the 'reach location on map' thing 18:08:33 <|amethyst> wheals: oh, right, because "back to %s" is handled elsewhere 18:08:40 <|amethyst> I think reach spot on map is good 18:08:53 <|amethyst> I just think haste or swiftness sounds a little too powerful? 18:08:54 PleasingFungus: it is just a twist on piety for exploration 18:09:05 mm 18:09:07 idk 18:09:09 (my biggest gripe is that it's so discrete) 18:09:15 |amethyst: I think that's fair -- maybe even just +piety, no +abilities? 18:09:24 <|amethyst> Lasty: does this god have passives? 18:09:25 oh, that could be cute 18:09:33 PleasingFungus: the upside of that as piety gain is that it reduces how directly it gives the player an incentive to speedrun 18:09:34 <|amethyst> Lasty: perhaps make them available only after placing the flag 18:09:46 |amethyst: yeah, the passives are +hp/mp/regen/no mana cap 18:09:51 I worry that this god doesn't have enough piety sinks 18:10:11 <|amethyst> increase decay after placing the flag? 18:10:19 Blend In is pretty strong 18:10:21 that it's going to be one of those gods where you don't really care about piety once you reach *****, unless you spam, idk, blend in? 18:10:21 <|amethyst> so there's tension about when to place it 18:10:37 PleasingFungus: we could make piety decay fast 18:10:41 the passives are very strong 18:10:44 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:10:48 that works for me 18:10:50 FR: the order of the fields in the struct definition of mgen_data is the same as in the ctor 18:11:01 and a god of exploration would want you to keep moving 18:11:07 ya 18:11:15 <|amethyst> wheals: easiest to change the struct :) 18:11:19 yeah 18:11:23 I'm really feeling the pith helmet on this god 18:11:24 er 18:11:25 A figure emerges from the depths of the water! A merfolk avatar comes into view. 18:11:29 in swamp? 18:11:33 PleasingFungus: That's what I'm going for 18:11:36 <|amethyst> wheals: remember that the initialization list needs to be the same order 18:11:38 excellent 18:11:46 is this some wonky vault 18:11:53 i'm surprised that it doesn't give warnings, last time i did something like this it gave me a warning that they would be initialised in the wrong order 18:11:56 gammafunk: !blame grunt 18:11:57 So, now we just need a name? I'm thinking W-something 18:11:59 god 18:12:03 Withmengos 18:12:03 gruuuuuunnnnttt 18:12:05 |amethyst: maybe that was just because it was a pointer field? 18:12:12 I wish I had a cat right now 18:12:13 what runes potentially open troves: slimy and abyssal? 18:12:19 i'd argue silver would make sense these days as a third option 18:12:20 ackack: I think so 18:12:23 re those two 18:12:25 Lasty: you cannot make names in a public space like this, it just won't work :) 18:12:36 dpeg: fair enough 18:12:47 Wacktrackicus 18:12:56 best name ever 18:12:56 Wolfgang 18:12:56 |amethyst: IMO do this now 18:13:00 the Wayfarer 18:13:08 also, bolt should have a CrawlHashTable 18:13:43 wolfgang sounds like too much of a human name 18:13:53 imo crawl needs more yred/kiku-styled names 18:14:10 my greatest qaz-related disappointment was that none of the really dumb long names I suggested got in 18:14:23 Anyone speak a not-particularly-common language with great syllabic groupings 18:14:25 ? 18:14:40 <|amethyst> Lasty: pick a random Georgian word 18:14:58 help this patch made edits to mon-stuff.cc 18:15:03 hahaha 18:15:03 <|amethyst> oh, but no w 18:15:05 what patch? 18:15:12 |amethyst: just slap one in front! 18:15:15 that can't go wrong 18:15:35 PleasingFungus: you'll see soon enough :) 18:15:52 -!- sasha_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:00 <|amethyst> Lasty: e.g. the Georgian word for "green" is "mts'vane" 18:16:07 !!! 18:16:07 Wshvidobisa 18:16:13 as a spellcaster with 0 evocations, requesting a staff from a scroll of aquisition yields a rod 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9230 by dowen 18:16:13 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:16:13 Wmadlobt 18:16:13 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:16:22 Whekh'vedramde 18:16:30 haha, dowen 18:16:36 Lasty!!! 18:16:39 now pronounce that 18:16:41 All courtesy of Georgian + first-character substitution 18:17:03 Lasty: have to mangle a bit more, or our Georgian players will file bug reports 18:17:07 PleasingFungus: It's not a good god name if it doesn't spawn at least 5 "how do you pronounce this god's name" threads 18:17:12 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: whenever I see "ashenzari" I think "ashkenazi" 18:17:42 |amethyst: saaaaaame 18:17:45 Wik'var'khal -- mangled from "I love you" 18:17:54 hahaha 18:18:12 Wodishi -- from "I am sorry" 18:18:13 i see more anasazi but maybe that's because i'm ashkenazi 18:18:20 Whekh'vedramde was the second half of "see you later"? 18:18:33 Wak shemicheret -- from "Stop right here, please" 18:18:41 Lasty: definitely a good source for names, no question about that! 18:18:42 Whirs'shesani'shna'obebi <- "sights" 18:18:45 what the hell 18:18:47 why. 18:18:52 lol 18:19:02 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's probably a whole sentence 18:19:03 oh it's literally "points of interest" 18:19:07 or something like that 18:19:11 ciphuk (L4 VSEn) (D:2) 18:19:16 that's also an extremely long word in Russian 18:19:29 <|amethyst> Georgian is quite agglutinative 18:19:36 <|amethyst> you should see the verbs 18:19:37 all the best languages are 18:19:51 so chinese is terrible?!?! 18:19:56 or mandarin, rather 18:20:09 hey, you said it, not me! 18:20:09 ciphuk (L3 VSEn) (D:2) 18:20:16 <|amethyst> !crashlog ciphuk 18:20:17 2. ciphuk, XL3 VSEn, T:666 (milestone): http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/ciphuk/crash-ciphuk-20141120-002006.txt 18:20:19 Wad Mdebareobs -- "Where is it located" 18:20:37 <|amethyst> bolt::hit_wall -> ray_def::pos 18:20:43 huh 18:20:45 robin crash 18:20:50 <|amethyst> ah, yeah 18:20:53 oh 18:20:56 this one is wheals 18:21:00 I think 18:21:10 Wuveniri Darjimani -corrupted from "Souvenir Interpreter" 18:21:17 %git 83a92e46 18:21:17 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-2463-g83a92e4: Add an animation for goblin tossing. 10(11 hours ago, 2 files, 18+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83a92e46c35c 18:21:20 aaargh rays 18:21:33 !torment wheals 18:21:33 * Sequell gestures. PleasingFungus is wracked with pain! 18:21:36 right 18:21:48 the pain of living in a MH_NATURAL world... 18:22:00 i guess since there doesn't have to be a possible ray from where it's thrown from to to...? 18:22:05 yeah 18:22:08 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:14 and arena didn't find this since there are no walls 18:22:19 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:23 <|amethyst> Georgian is also ergative (split ergative), which isn't that uncommon but is strange to Europeans 18:22:26 iirc the only guarantee is that there's a clear path from robin to its destination 18:22:34 not from the goblin's original position 18:22:53 probably a simple fix to change it to starting at her? idk 18:22:55 then just use that as beam path? 18:23:01 yes 18:23:10 that makes sense 18:25:04 someone should also maybe add a comment mentioning that 18:25:06 for future generations 18:29:27 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:30:30 !source monster::defined 18:30:32 Couldn't find monster::defined in the Crawl source tree 18:31:40 bool defined() const { return alive(); } 18:32:22 doesn't seem to be called anywhere 18:32:43 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:33:13 nice 18:33:16 is it an actor method? 18:33:21 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:33:22 wait 18:33:25 actually that makes no sense 18:34:41 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:07 no 18:36:32 <|amethyst> monster::defined() was added at the same time as several other defined() methods 18:36:51 <|amethyst> %git b4fa663e 18:36:51 07greensnark02 * 0.7.0-a0-2600-gb4fa663: Increase item limits, decouple NON_foo from MAX_foo; save major version changed. 10(4 years, 5 months ago, 9 files, 44+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b4fa663e1c51 18:37:54 wheals: there's no tiles implementation! 18:37:56 you monster 18:38:20 1learn e gammafunk_todo s/$/, implement custom tiles for beams 18:38:26 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:38:30 they have it, actually 18:38:54 you just have to use it, but it's complicated by the fact that you'd want the goblin's full tile, I guess 18:38:55 -!- sasha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:10 I've been meaning to do one for opc throw as well 18:39:37 !lm . 18:39:38 10610. [2014-11-20 00:30:06] gammafunk the Basher (L17 MuGl of Gozag) killed Nikola on turn 54942. (Swamp:5) 18:39:43 !gamesby . mugl 18:39:44 gammafunk (mugl) has played 6 games, between 2014-11-15 00:49:35 and 2014-11-17 01:45:21, won 0, high score 57216, total score 79937, total turns 72527, play-time/day 1:50:11, total time 5:30:35. 18:39:52 !gamesby . mu-- 18:39:52 gammafunk (mu--) has played 12 games, between 2013-07-04 04:02:10 and 2014-11-17 01:45:21, won 0, high score 57216, total score 84067, total turns 96096, play-time/day 0:00:53, total time 7:28:54. 18:39:59 !gamesby . mu-- recent 18:39:59 gammafunk (mu-- recent) has played 9 games, between 2014-07-17 02:43:03 and 2014-11-17 01:45:21, won 0, high score 57216, total score 83229, total turns 91427, play-time/day 0:03:23, total time 7:00:09. 18:40:09 !gamesby PleasingFungus gh-- recent 18:40:10 PleasingFungus (gh-- recent) has played 29 games, between 2014-09-04 01:22:59 and 2014-10-14 05:26:58, won 0, high score 457194, total score 773926, total turns 190055, play-time/day 0:21:19, total time 14:34:08. 18:40:13 just sayin' 18:40:27 6th game, got the decaying rune no problem, just sayin' 18:40:34 mummy harder than gh, just sayin' 18:40:41 just sayin' 18:40:51 that's *all* I'm saying 18:40:58 you know I got into extended in gh 18:41:04 *with gh 18:41:06 right 18:41:14 got into extended and then won? 18:41:17 or died? 18:41:22 you already know that one 18:41:25 what's the "correct" way to get the distance between two monsters? 18:41:36 ask nicely? 18:41:40 grid_distance(mon1->pos(), mon2->pos()) 18:41:41 <|amethyst> wheals: what kind of distance? 18:41:44 depending on whatyou mean, yeah 18:41:59 -!- Redz has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:42:08 chebyshev would be nice but i think most likely euclidean 18:42:26 <|amethyst> grid_distance is chebyshev, distance2 approx-euclidean 18:42:38 <|amethyst> if it's related to targetting it should be distance2 18:42:43 <|amethyst> movement, grid_distance 18:42:52 <|amethyst> in general anyway 18:42:56 yeah and distance2 is in "r2" units, e.g. x^2 + y^2 where x,y are the differences in coord components 18:43:05 until we bring back squarelos!!!! 18:43:18 <|amethyst> FR: diamondlos 18:43:19 did crawl ever have squarelos in trunk? 18:43:29 don't think so 18:43:32 not really sure 18:43:54 |amethyst: would that be taxicab 18:43:56 oh, I wanted to ask |amethyst about this to make sure my math isn't wrong 18:44:03 <|amethyst> wheals: yeah 18:44:24 !source godabil.cc:4980 18:44:25 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc;hb=HEAD#l4980 18:44:58 -!- jayjay has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:01 |amethyst: grunt doesn't want disaster area to hit the player, so he uses that distance2 cutoff and excludes explosion centers within those values conditional on power 18:45:21 |amethyst: but upheaval (the explosions) uses radius 1 or 2, so shouldn't that 8 be 5? 18:45:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: 2 means adjacent, 8 means within reaching range 18:45:53 <|amethyst> 5 is 18:45:55 <|amethyst> *** 18:45:56 <|amethyst> **** 18:45:58 <|amethyst> err 18:46:00 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:13 <|amethyst> 5x5 with the corners missing 18:46:42 |amethyst: but if you go 2 tiles away in diagonal dir, a max radius upheavel explosion centered there wouldn't hit the player 18:46:47 <|amethyst> ah 18:46:52 <|amethyst> then, yeah, you should use 5 18:46:53 so he doesn't need to exclude that tile 18:47:08 ok, I thought that was the correct math, but, you know, circlelos 18:47:12 <|amethyst> in general I think we do "radius2" = radius*radius + 1 18:47:36 <|amethyst> fortunately, even in circlelos, distance is symmetric :) 18:48:05 <|amethyst> in fact 18:48:18 yes, because that's how the "circles" are made: going in a cardinal dir you can go r squares away and then one in orthogonal dir, which gives a max distance2 of r^2 + 1^2 = r^2 + 1 18:48:19 <|amethyst> I would consider not hardcoding 2 and 5 there 18:48:36 yeah that's what I originally wanted to do but I saw the 8 and got all worried I didn't understand the math 18:48:53 dist_radius or some such function 18:48:59 <|amethyst> where is the radius defined? 18:49:14 in upheaval, if that's where you're asking 18:49:16 *what 18:49:27 it calls the upheavel explosion function below 18:49:38 iA figure emerges from the depths of the water! A merfolk avatar comes into view. 18:49:41 er 18:49:43 A figure emerges from the depths of the water! A merfolk avatar comes into view. 18:49:47 god 18:49:50 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I would write an upheaval_radius function 18:49:50 qazlal_upheaval 18:50:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: err, _upheaval_radius (static to that file) 18:50:19 oh, with pow as an argument? 18:50:38 <|amethyst> yeah 18:50:50 ok, I'll do something like that 18:51:03 <|amethyst> returning 1 or 2, which you use directly in upheaval and square-plus-one in disaster area 18:51:59 Dear all: Feature request: When you're inside one portal vault, the other portal vaults' entrances should tick loudly instead of silently. 18:52:00 Thoughts? 18:52:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hmm... I really though we already had a function or method that did the square-plus-one thing 18:52:34 |amethyst: yeah we have dist_radius I think? 18:52:35 let me check 18:52:46 <|amethyst> dist_range, that's it 18:52:55 sorry....yeah 18:53:19 <|amethyst> vimpulse: why would it be louder? 18:54:23 |amethyst: I don't understand the question. "Louder"? Louder than what? 18:54:34 |amethyst: oh. Louder because it's on your floor. 18:54:36 <|amethyst> than on the adjacent dungeon floor 18:55:16 |amethyst: Also, it should be loud as a usability aid, since you can't just go upstairs to check on the timer status. 18:55:21 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:05 <|amethyst> yeah, something like that does make sense 18:56:22 <|amethyst> at least giving some indication of how long you have left 18:56:29 <|amethyst> but that would make sense even on another level 18:57:02 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:57:25 <|amethyst> I don't know about the full set of messages... missing volcano burst warnings because of messages from an adjacent ice cave might be annoying 18:58:19 <|amethyst> but that's not really a good argument, because it's even more spammy back on the host floor\ 18:58:49 |amethyst: ok, how about this? "Warnings that a timed portal entrance will time out should be audible in every branch and on every floor." 18:58:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:03 Do people ever choose not to enter a timed portal vault? 18:59:07 <|amethyst> sure 18:59:26 <|amethyst> some people ignore labs because they don't like solving mazes in a roguelike 18:59:36 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:38 <|amethyst> some chars might avoid a portal vault because they would die 19:00:00 couldn't they enter, scope out the challenge, then flee later? 19:00:03 <|amethyst> vimpulse: I think showing the timer on ctrl-o might be better if you're off-level 19:00:06 sometimes 19:00:15 note that you don;t have that oiption in a lab though 19:00:22 you have to solve it to get out 19:00:32 update: "so-and-so the death's scholar" is a weird title 19:00:34 mainly because of the the 19:00:36 <|amethyst> and a few portal vault maps do start with an ambush 19:00:48 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: look for an apostrophe in the first word 19:00:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if it's there, use ", " instead of " the " 19:01:45 |amethyst: How about below the quivered-weapon indicator? Or in the status-lights area? 19:02:47 |amethyst: hm. I wonder if we have any other titles that match that 19:03:10 seems like it might be nice to re-use the "the" removal code that Le Petite Mort has, maybe 19:03:17 critical fixes!!! 19:03:20 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:03:24 La 19:03:45 fr: El Poco Muerte 19:03:46 feh! 19:03:49 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 36.0a1/20141118030201]] 19:03:55 er, pequeno 19:03:59 +~ 19:04:03 geekosaur: If you enter a lab and are carrying lots of permafood, technically, the game _could_ generate a second labyrinth exit right at the start. But it doesn't. 19:04:38 <|amethyst> !lg * lab s=ktyp 19:04:39 4168 games for * (lab): 3491x mon, 333x beam, 127x quitting, 71x starvation, 31x headbutt, 27x pois, 25x trap, 19x cloud, 13x disintegration, 7x wild magic, 6x targeting, 4x stupidity, 2x water, 2x burning, 2x self aimed, 2x lava, something, targetting, divine wrath, bounce, beogh smiting, reflect 19:04:58 <|amethyst> hm 19:05:21 !lg * lab ktyp=something 19:05:23 1. soul the Infuser (L11 DGCr), distortion unwield in a Labyrinth on 2011-05-20 22:53:43, with 15489 points after 21358 turns and 1:46:55. 19:05:27 !lg * lab ktyp=beogh_smiting 19:05:28 1. Roarke the Cleaver (L13 HONe of Beogh), smitten by Beogh in a Labyrinth (nicolae_lab_dead_adventurers) on 2013-12-29 18:50:03, with 32262 points after 15470 turns and 0:54:31. 19:05:30 Hmm. "Beware, for starvation awaits!" is inaccurate. "Beware, for quitting awaits!" would be more apt. 19:05:53 <|amethyst> the problem is, having an exit at the start doesn't help that 19:06:10 <|amethyst> because getting back to the start isn't necessarily trivial either once you're good and lost 19:06:12 beware, for headbutts await 19:06:16 How about a bunch of exits, scattered throughout the labyrinth? 19:06:19 wheals: :) 19:06:23 <|amethyst> that could work 19:06:43 <|amethyst> I think last time that came up the issue was indicating somehow that it wasn't the 'real' exit 19:06:46 oh right i should really merge mons_is_conjured and M_SPELL_PROXY 19:07:07 -!- read has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:08 <|amethyst> could change the real exit to a portal, and make the fake exits into escape hatches 19:07:33 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:36 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:43 |amethyst: ISTM that would work. You could add that to trunk temporarily and see how players react to it. 19:08:07 <|amethyst> patches welcome! 19:08:08 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:08:14 <|amethyst> (off to dinner) 19:08:19 |amethyst: :) enjoy. 19:08:34 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:24 * Grunt appears! 19:09:26 * Grunt crumbles away. 19:09:32 !singularity Grunt 19:09:32 wheals mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps Grunt! 19:09:50 I think I am going to knock off the first two bits of the Android SDL2 TODO and then land it 19:10:01 (once I finish my on-return-home tasks) 19:10:20 ??sdl2[2 19:10:21 sdl2[2/2]: Android: update version in application manifest automagically; x86 compilation? (fix SDL_image's libjpeg to work properly), stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 19:10:23 (for the curious) 19:10:33 I know exactly how to do the first and I have a notion for how to do the second 19:10:45 libdpeg 19:13:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 19:14:17 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:23 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:41 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:14:49 wheals: glassify(), oklobify(), ? 19:15:08 denethackify() 19:15:41 hm 19:15:52 I have discovered libjpeg-turbo 19:16:45 oh 19:16:51 I was going to ask 19:17:42 The old SDL Android port used SDL_mixer to provide sound where applicable (sort of like how win32 can use winmm). 19:18:11 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:14 Should we consider doing the same for SDL2 in general? 19:18:28 New branch created: singularity (1 commit) 19:18:29 03Sage02 {wheals} 07[singularity] * 0.16-a0-2475-g449d0c6: New spell: Singularity. 10(10 months ago, 13 files, 190+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=449d0c6664e0 19:18:32 \o/ 19:18:37 We'd have to contribify it if so. 19:18:44 !singularity Grunt 19:18:44 wheals mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps Grunt! 19:18:46 !singularity wh4als 19:18:46 Grunt mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps wh4als! 19:18:48 er 19:18:56 1learn add wheals wh4als 19:19:31 -!- Siegurt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:34 I tried Crawl for Android on my Samsung Galaxy S Relay a couple months ago. But the phone's physical keyboard didn't work so well. :( IIRC the < and > keys emitted unrecognized keycodes. 19:20:29 I still have it installed, and can get details if you want. 19:20:37 vimpulse, remind me a bit later and I can give you an .apk of the SDL2 version; it should work much better. 19:21:05 Grunt: the version in the Google Play store used SDL1? 19:21:13 vimpulse: yes 19:21:14 oh 19:21:31 todo: figure out who has that play store account 19:21:38 !lm . 19:21:38 10614. [2014-11-20 01:21:21] gammafunk the Bludgeoner (L17 MuGl of Gozag) killed Asterion on turn 59804. (Snake:2) 19:21:57 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:10 oh I don't think we have one? 19:23:34 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2475-g8c05a2e: Restore boggarts' accidentally-increased MR (crate). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c05a2ea7f40 19:23:37 Grunt: Oops. You don't. 19:23:50 Grunt: I must've downloaded the .apk from SourceForge. 19:25:14 !lm 19:25:15 10615. [2014-11-20 01:25:05] gammafunk the Bludgeoner (L18 MuGl of Gozag) killed Vashnia on turn 60360. (Snake:2) 19:25:17 2ez 19:25:32 Grunt: Still, the Google Play Store is pretty handy. IIRC, it acts as like "apt-get" to Android's "dpkg" -- it automatically updates all installed apps whenever you connect to a Wi-Fi network. 19:26:28 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:43 Grunt: OK. So is the Android .apk at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads a SDL2 apk? 19:27:10 !singularity pl 19:27:10 wheals mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps pl! 19:27:13 er 19:27:15 !singularity PleasingFungus 19:27:15 wheals mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps PleasingFungus! 19:27:39 vimpulse: the labyrinth no longer warns that starvation awaits. 19:27:44 oh, someone's implementing singularity? noice 19:27:56 ! 19:28:13 i remember an old mod for quake 2 that had a ton of goofy new weapons and one of them was a singularity type thing 19:28:19 !singularity !! 19:28:19 Grunt mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps !!! 19:28:28 heh 19:28:45 Grunt: with ?vuln and /confuse, it was sad how she just flopped over and died like a garter snake 19:29:03 see also: the arrival, starring charlie sheen, which is probably one of those movies that is super awesome when you're sixteen and then a decade and a half later you're just "eehhhh what" 19:29:56 in grunt voice: "now imagine monsters casting singularity........" 19:30:06 what does Grunt voice sound like 19:30:18 I don't see how that's relevant to anything. 19:30:33 it was already implemented 10 months ago, as you see 19:30:38 i'm going to just assume he sounds like professor frink from the simpsons until proven otherwise 19:30:57 does singularity effect the player who cast it? 19:31:17 hm, the last time this file was touched for anything other than codebase-wide formatting tweaks was... 19:31:19 %git 589acc5e30fdeb6f424fbecb3e0e7539c5bdab94 19:31:24 07galehar02 * 0.12-a0-757-g589acc5: New option to have zoomed textures filtered: tile_filter_scaling. 10(2 years, 1 month ago, 5 files, 13+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=589acc5e30fd 19:31:46 which is annoying, because it's giving a deprecated function warning every time it's compiled. 19:32:22 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: see you later] 19:33:57 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:23 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:53 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2476-g2f60548: Some GOBLIN BEAM fixups. 10(14 minutes ago, 2 files, 22+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f6054882b08 19:38:54 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-2375-g22c15fd: No backtrack god ** power: Blend In 10(23 hours ago, 9 files, 247+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=22c15fd01ff0 19:38:54 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-2376-g40978ec: Add no backtracking god 4* power: Change of Scenery 10(2 minutes ago, 6 files, 47+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=40978ec8a2e1 19:40:07 so does no-backtrack-god have a theme yet 19:40:15 like theme music? 19:40:26 yes 19:40:28 i mean, flavor 19:40:42 theme is yakety sax 19:40:46 god of pith helmets 19:41:14 oh. wheals. hm. I wonder about that glyph.col 19:41:15 oh, fun 19:41:21 yeah me too 19:41:36 maybe make it some default colour if the glyph colour is COLOUR_UNDEF? 19:41:38 f - 2 potions of quinine {god gift} 19:41:39 COL_UNDEF? w/e 19:41:48 Lasty: !!! 19:41:56 btw someone needs to implement !ambrosia already 19:41:59 maybe me 19:42:05 gammafunk: should monster_info::colour() ever return COLOUR_UNDEF? 19:42:14 wheals: no 19:42:19 !send wheals GOBLIN BEAM 19:42:19 Sending GOBLIN BEAM to wheals. 19:42:21 hm 19:42:25 imo toss an assert in there 19:42:27 it has to return a colour_t value 19:42:28 PleasingFungus: Cool :) Thank you kindly. 19:42:29 Dear all: How can I download the latest build built by {travis}? I don't see any "Download" link anywhere. 19:42:31 and see if someone trips it 19:42:32 well 19:42:37 let me just check on that 19:42:43 I might be misremembering 19:42:48 !function monster_info::colour 19:42:49 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc;hb=HEAD#l1826 19:42:51 does travis actually export builds? I know someone was talking about it 19:43:00 PleasingFungus: Dunno. Maybe it doesn't. 19:43:25 what files have ASSERTs on line 112 19:43:29 wheals: unsigned monster_info::colour(bool base_colour) const 19:43:32 colour.cc, supposedly? 19:43:34 colour_undef is -1 19:43:37 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:43:44 i see 19:43:45 o 19:43:47 I thought it was 0 19:43:52 er 19:43:53 dang 19:43:54 sorry 19:43:54 !source _is_element_colour 19:43:55 yes 19:43:55 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/colour.cc;hb=HEAD#l108 19:44:00 you're right 19:44:00 well, it uses something else 19:44:23 _get_mons_colour 19:44:35 !source _get_mons_colour 19:44:35 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/showsymb.cc;hb=HEAD#l174 19:44:46 ...and then right afterwards calls real_colour, which calls _is_element_colour 19:44:52 so i suspect that is the weak link 19:44:55 hm 19:44:59 yeah that function is for dealing with like enchants 19:45:10 temporary conditions 19:45:24 monster_info::colour is about its normal display colour 19:45:31 Lasty: something we may need to be sort of concerned about with backtrackicus: let's not be racist 19:45:35 like 19:45:44 it is kind of tricky to be racist in crawl 19:45:44 oh i see 19:45:50 being as it's very fantasy 19:46:00 but it is still something to be avoided 19:46:20 PleasingFungus: yeah, def not. I don't intend to directly reference any tropes of the racist genre. 19:46:22 so i guess i shouldn't post my suggestion for the 5* power "Brutal Colonialist Oppression" 19:46:25 -afk- 19:47:06 PleasingFungus: believe it or not, it's something I considered as well :) 19:47:28 good 19:47:31 all is well 19:48:23 ahh, figured it out 19:48:25 hm 19:48:41 it's possible for monsters to die while they're in the middle of dying 19:48:46 how annoying 19:51:03 this is *intensely* annoying. 19:51:17 PleasingFungus: :( 19:51:25 haha don't worry about it 19:51:27 it's just crawl code. 19:51:29 :) 19:51:52 ...how is it possible for creatures to die in the middle of dying 19:51:59 what's the code there 19:52:39 wizmode kill a tso-summoned angel. 19:52:49 as part of dying, it calls the conduct code 19:52:52 which invokes penance 19:52:55 which makes your angel abandon you 19:53:03 which kills it (with KILL_DISMISSED) 19:53:12 -!- hauzer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:15 ah 19:53:18 which means that it's already dead when you pop back to the first death 19:53:21 which causes a crash 19:53:41 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:53:47 PleasingFungus: could that crash ever happen, though, outside of wizmode? 19:53:53 maybe 19:53:54 not sure 19:54:01 kill all bugs 19:54:06 they might pop up in a real game later somehow 19:54:11 I can't edit my own reported issue 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9232 by RoGGa 19:54:15 well, also, crashing wizmode is bad in itself 19:54:23 god, half of all recent mantis issues are that guy. 19:54:24 he's tireless. 19:54:27 anyway. 19:54:32 any way to trick a monster into drowning might trigger it, I suspect 19:54:39 !tell wheals For _get_mons_colour, which is probably should do is take that resolved monster_type in stype, create a monster_info from that, and use the ::colour() returned from that instance 19:54:39 gammafunk: OK, I'll let wheals know. 19:54:55 so what you're saying is that this bug is all that's holding back the force lance buff 19:54:59 tbh it'd be nice to split this out somehow 19:55:15 since having it in monster info is turning into kind of a pain 19:55:38 PleasingFungus: Regarding travis: Nowadays, it seems Travis can automatically upload releases to GitHub. See: http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/releases/ 19:55:38 I still have been unable to figure out whether or not they store releases on their own webserver or not. 19:55:41 ??sdl2[2 19:55:41 sdl2[2/2]: Android: update version in application manifest automagically; x86 compilation? (fix SDL_image's libjpeg to work properly), stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 19:55:49 !learn edit sdl2[2] s/update.*automagically; // 19:55:50 sdl2[2/2]: Android: x86 compilation? (fix SDL_image's libjpeg to work properly), stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 19:55:54 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:06 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2036-g041e3e5: Automagically generate an AndroidManifest with the right Crawl version. 10(62 seconds ago, 3 files, 40+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=041e3e5cd50e 19:56:06 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2037-gaf14809: Update .gitignore with more Android stuff. 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af14809b1ded 19:56:08 apparently that function is only needed because of 1) slime creature merging and 2) "ordinary" zombies/skels needed to get resolved to the small/large zombie monster types 19:56:51 * gammafunk .gitignores Grunt 19:56:55 read: I'm not sure turning Force Lance into Instant-Death Beam is the right buff. 19:57:14 PleasingFungus: if you rename it to that though, players might be drawn to using it! 19:57:28 it's all in the marketing approach... 19:57:31 Wide-Angle Disintegration Beam 19:57:34 yessss 19:57:51 !tell Grunt " Yo Fungus something is up with how trunk is displayed on Chrome. It looks all grainy and tiles aren't being drawn right. Like this http://i.imgur.com/6LHYNIl.png " 19:57:51 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let grunt know. 19:58:13 PleasingFungus: says who 19:58:15 PleasingFungus: Grunt is right here in channel. 19:58:17 Yo Fungus! F-dawg 19:58:18 !lm stoat 19:58:19 8. [2014-07-11 07:17:26] Stoat the Shield-Bearer (L1 MiFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 19:58:37 !lm stoat x=cv 19:58:38 8. [2014-07-11 07:17:26] [cv=0.15-a] Stoat the Shield-Bearer (L1 MiFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 19:58:39 er 19:58:40 !lm stoat x=src 19:58:40 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:40 8. [2014-07-11 07:17:26] [src=ckr] Stoat the Shield-Bearer (L1 MiFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 19:58:41 !lm stoats 19:58:42 1759. [2014-11-20 01:49:22] Stoats the Basher (L8 GrFi of Ru) sacrificed stealth on turn 6110. (D:7) 19:58:48 !lm stoats x=src 19:58:48 1759. [2014-11-20 01:49:22] [src=cao] Stoats the Basher (L8 GrFi of Ru) sacrificed stealth on turn 6110. (D:7) 19:58:49 ah, he added an s 19:59:06 ? ? ? ? 19:59:20 !lm stoats x=vlong 19:59:21 1759. [2014-11-20 01:49:22] [vlong=0.16-a0-2464-gd9e547f] Stoats the Basher (L8 GrFi of Ru) sacrificed stealth on turn 6110. (D:7) 19:59:24 %git 19:59:24 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-2476-g2f60548: Some GOBLIN BEAM fixups. 10(35 minutes ago, 2 files, 22+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f6054882b08 19:59:35 that's pretty much up to date. 19:59:39 GOBLIN_BEAM? 19:59:43 he is probably zoomed out slightly 19:59:47 I bet that is what is causing issues 20:00:02 I will inquire. 20:00:48 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01:40 ok, I think this crash can only happen with tso. 20:02:03 I think the morally correct fix is probably to turn the tso summon disappearing thing into a dact. 20:02:07 I have no idea how dacts work, though. 20:02:33 what is a dact 20:02:59 zarath9 (L3 TrMo) (D:3) 20:03:08 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:21 Grunt: Google charges $25 to get a Google Play Store publisher account. Apple charges $100/year for an account on their app store. Their goal is to discourage the publication of poor-quality apps. 20:03:45 nicolae-: delayed action. 20:04:01 ??dact 20:04:01 I don't have a page labeled dact in my learndb. Did you mean: dart, darts. 20:04:08 ah 20:06:17 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-2477-g7b0a87b: Improve Ru piety-blurring. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b0a87bc0e15 20:06:17 03Lasty02 07[no_backtracking_god] * 0.16-a0-2483-g09a1a6e: Merging in master 10(3 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=09a1a6ebe580 20:06:22 uh 20:06:30 so what did that last commit mean about GOBLIN_BEAM 20:07:08 * Grunt throws the goblin at Lightli! 20:07:11 read the commit to find out! 20:07:51 I should come back and try to pretend i can debug sdl/opengl things 20:07:54 in a bit 20:08:03 Grunt: But there are lots of smaller app stores, such as the Amazon Appstore. I'm sure there's one which doesn't charge any money. 20:08:31 I knew it, grunt is going to get rich from android dcss 20:08:40 :) 20:08:47 will he even talk to us little people after he moves into that Canadian Mansion 20:08:56 why Canadian? 20:09:04 ...exactly 20:09:22 Lightli: it's a console thing. 20:09:40 fr: console-only unique 20:09:49 Dear all: The official Android version of Crawl, available at http://crawl.develz.org/ -- does it use SDL1 or SDL2? 20:09:50 is a coolplayer 20:09:50 !tell ontoclasm -Because of the wierd head shape of Draconians, the Art Director would have to draw a new set of horns. 20:09:50 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:10:12 Dear vimpulse: it uses sdl1 currently and we're porting to sdl2 20:10:18 ??goblin throw 20:10:19 I don't have a page labeled goblin_throw in my learndb. 20:10:31 saying Dear all in an irc chatroom is kind of not necessary btw 20:10:44 Dear gammafunk: 20:10:46 Hi! 20:10:54 ...omg he talked to me omgomgomg! 20:11:00 be cool, man, be cool! 20:11:16 just go up and nonchalantly just ask for an autograph real casual like 20:11:24 Crash when instakilling TSO summons 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9233 by PleasingFungus 20:11:28 gammafunk: point taken. :) 20:11:37 ??robin 20:11:38 robin[1/1]: Account for round-robin games (one player plays the character, then another, etc.). Login: roundrobin, demorobin, ghostrobin, quitrobin, noobrobin, zigrobin, mnolegrobin, ironrobin, mutarobin, elfrobin, slimerobin, hippyrobin, acidrobin, drugrobin, blindrobin, discorobin, blinkrobin, skillrobin, mummyrobin, dgwnrobin, pararobin; Password: robin 20:11:51 someone should probably fix that 20:11:51 not the best name for the new unique 20:11:56 <_miek> so is the new android stuff just to port it to SDL2 or is it also to fix the interface? 20:11:59 Lightli: I agree! 20:12:01 Suggest a better one :) 20:12:12 Bob 20:12:14 Hurley 20:12:25 Lightli: bob is a weird girl's name. 20:12:31 oh 20:12:33 <_miek> what's the new unique? 20:12:37 <_miek> is it a shrike? :P 20:12:42 yes 20:12:46 d:2-4 shrie 20:12:49 shrike 20:12:56 oh god 20:12:57 <_miek> um.. wha? 20:12:58 it's early game 20:13:05 Difficulty raised 20:13:07 <_miek> Polly! 20:13:13 <_miek> she wants your crackers 20:13:26 it's a goblin unique who shows up with a pack of goblins and then throws them at you 20:13:33 hobgoblin unique* 20:13:56 actually recent dna studies show that hobgoblins and goblins are the same species, just different phenotypes 20:13:58 I wonder if PleasingFungus enjoys correcting people about that 20:14:04 hobgoblin vs. goblin 20:14:08 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:14:13 -!- kipster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:14:15 <_miek> throws the hobgoblins at you? 20:14:16 she's more like a lobgoblin 20:14:23 nicolae-: o/ 20:14:27 Consistency about monster types is the hobgoblin of clever minds... 20:14:31 or something like that. 20:14:41 <_miek> Lets call her Jolene 20:15:00 Jolene, Jolene, Joleeeeeene, don't throw him just because you can 20:15:05 What proportion of Crawl users are female? 20:15:32 vimpulse: we took a survey a while back 20:15:43 <_miek> an actual survey? 20:15:46 Yes! 20:15:51 ??survey 20:15:51 survey[1/1]: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/dcss-survey-results-2012 20:15:51 It was a cool survey, actually. 20:15:52 <_miek> I saw a forum post about it 20:15:54 <_miek> it went pretty bad 20:15:59 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:59 The build has errored. (segfault-debug - 6f165d0 #623 : Jesse Luehrs): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41500691 20:15:59 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 20:16:03 vimpulse: about 4% 20:16:03 is this the ottoman empire thread 20:16:05 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:17 bh: Seems like a rather small number. 20:16:23 _miek: what happened bad? 20:16:23 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:16:36 vimpulse: it was a discussion on a video game forum about women in gaming 20:16:41 how could it have gone *well* 20:17:03 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:17:07 <_miek> wow I love how more people have won 5 games than have won 15 runes 20:17:20 vimpulse: I really have no idea how it compares with other roguelikes 20:17:33 _miek: I've got 11 or 12 wins and no 15-runer 20:17:41 <_miek> nicolae-: I was actually pleasantly surprised compared to other communities I've seen 20:17:57 <_miek> bh: I'm at 8 now with no 15-runer 20:18:10 <_miek> that was why I'm happy about it.. because apparently its a better achievement 20:18:18 bh: I'm curious how it compares with other RPGs, or other computer games in general. 20:18:35 hm. is there still a reason to allow people to wield non-weapons? 20:18:42 PleasingFungus: breadswinging? 20:18:47 that is not a reason. 20:18:53 <_miek> PleasingFungus: ??ophanim 20:18:57 sublimation and simulac were changed. decks evoke from the inventoyr. 20:18:57 PleasingFungus: wielding decks in order to draw cards from them? 20:19:03 vimpulse: no longer! 20:19:10 <_miek> wielding corpse of dowan to kill duvessa 20:19:15 <_miek> (I know you can't actually do that anymore) 20:19:17 :) 20:19:19 :D 20:19:22 oh 20:19:23 -!- zauren has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:24 sticks to snakes 20:19:26 I think that might be it 20:19:28 I enjoy killing giants by throwing fruit at them 20:19:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:40 isn't there a thing on the tavern about making sticks to snakes work from inventory, anyway 20:19:42 bh: I wasn't planning on stopping you from doing *that*! 20:19:53 nicolae-: I am still undecided about the design of sticks to snakes 20:19:54 It's funny how different keystrokes are used to equip a weapon vs. armour vs. jewellery. 20:19:55 it's very thematic 20:20:02 can we make cockroaches at cockroach corpses? :) 20:20:07 i'm all for theme 20:20:08 %s/at/eat 20:20:16 And still different keys are used to remove armour and jewellery. 20:20:20 but sometimes you have to drown the baby of theme in the bathtub of mechanical simplicity 20:20:26 And to quiver ammo. 20:20:39 idk. it leaves a pretty big hole in tm. 20:20:51 oh i wasn't suggesting getting rid of S2S 20:21:01 one thing i did like about IVAN is that with one button you could fiddle with all your slots 20:21:03 what were you actually suggesting? 20:21:16 vimpulse: the main reason for this, iirc, is so you aren't presented with your entire inventory any time you want to change out one slot 20:21:16 <_miek> PleasingFungus: what about sandblast too? 20:21:20 it's a kind of built-in filtering 20:21:24 _miek: huh, I totally forgot 20:21:26 man, that's a weird spell 20:21:34 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2478-gb98ff20: Warn when attacking with rods (argonaut) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b98ff20ad2b9 20:21:36 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 20:21:39 arguably, rocks are weapons. our ancestors knew this. 20:22:05 <_miek> make attacking with rocks similar to attacking with clubs? 20:22:11 PleasingFungus: Still, if you press P then specify a jewellery item, the game complains and refuses. 20:22:13 nicolae-: was it like the adom thing where you had the list of slots? 20:22:14 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:22:16 there's probably a weird way to get a similar idea, like sandblast and sticks to snakes work on what you have quivered but only work if your hands are empty, or something 20:22:25 wheals: it had a list, yeah 20:22:29 never played ADOM though 20:22:42 vimpulse: no it doesn't? 20:22:44 what? 20:22:48 PleasingFungus: let me check 20:22:49 <|amethyst> vimpulse: if you press P for jewellery and choose a body armour, it's probably good that it doesn't wear it 20:23:06 isn't there an option for that? 20:23:13 PleasingFungus: oops I meant "an armour item" 20:23:22 in that case, I defer to |amethyst's statement. 20:23:25 <|amethyst> vimpulse: because wearing armour takes a lot longer 20:23:32 <|amethyst> you might want to ring-swap in combat 20:23:32 ten times as long, in fact. 20:23:39 |amethyst: fair. OK, how about vice versa? 20:23:47 |amethyst: W to put on a ring 20:23:56 pressing the letter for a piece of armour when you've specified you want to put on jewellery is most likely a mispress - and vice versa. 20:24:05 <|amethyst> wouldn't be quite as problematic 20:24:11 <_miek> that has the same issue, where if you allow W for rings then people might start only using that for rings, and then accidentally swap armour in combat 20:24:14 <|amethyst> anyway, you can do all this from the = menu if you want one place 20:24:27 <|amethyst> (but even then the presses are different) 20:24:51 |amethyst: the = menu only adjusts letters, it doesn't equip things. 20:24:57 <|amethyst> err 20:24:59 <|amethyst> sorry, the i menu 20:26:11 PleasingFungus: an upcoming commit here is going to have a good crawlcode line in the commit message 20:26:22 !!! 20:26:26 I'm excited 20:26:41 %git singularity 20:26:41 07Sage02 {wheals} * 0.16-a0-2475-g449d0c6: New spell: Singularity. 10(10 months ago, 13 files, 190+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=449d0c6664e0 20:26:52 <_miek> ??singularity 20:26:53 I don't have a page labeled singularity in my learndb. 20:26:58 PleasingFungus: how do you feel about if (--mons->countdown <= 0) 20:27:21 I will sigh, and then draw my katana. 20:27:22 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:52 (sadly I do not own a katana.) 20:27:59 """sadly""" 20:28:01 1learn add PleasingFungus PleasingFungus: how do you feel about crawlcode I will sigh, and then draw my katana. 20:28:03 !send PleasingFungus a tsurugi 20:28:04 Sending a tsurugi to PleasingFungus. 20:28:04 *hands PleasingFungus a pad of paper and a pencil* 20:28:17 back on Sunday, I was showing some folks crawlcode@ 20:28:26 to my horror, I'd authored part of the snippet I was showing off 20:28:40 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-2479-gd588504: Fix some crashes with GOBLIN BEAM (#927{7,8}). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d5885044dd4f 20:28:55 bh: hahahaha 20:28:58 <|amethyst> Most of my contributions to crawlcode have been comments I think 20:29:14 ??crawlcode 20:29:15 crawlcode[1/1]: Come get some. ~ https://twitter.com/crawlcode 20:29:26 i got in once because of nicolae_quartered_pool_super 20:29:35 what is crawlcode? 20:29:41 vimpulse: look and you will see. 20:29:45 I've been in crawlcode on occasion. Usually it is my dry commenting sense of humour. 20:29:45 nicolae-: that vault, man. 20:29:49 that vault and all its pals. 20:29:59 they're kind of amazing, in a way. 20:30:05 Grunt: but more often, your amazing coding skill? 20:30:07 i'm pleased with them 20:30:34 wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Singularity 20:30:39 kind of hard to test a level 9 spell 20:31:15 i'm glad they're just simple decor vaults because if somebody actually had to edit them, that would be terrible 20:31:44 !singularity wheals 20:31:45 Grunt mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps wheals! 20:31:46 !learn add nicolae i'm glad they're just simple decor vaults because if somebody actually had to edit them, that would be terrible 20:31:46 nicolae[1/1]: i'm glad they're just simple decor vaults because if somebody actually had to edit them, that would be terrible 20:31:57 wheals: Can't you simply create a duplicate of a savefile, enter wizmode, memorize the spell, then try the spell? 20:32:07 vimpulse: we want players to test it. 20:32:24 <_miek> chuck it in trunk then? :P 20:33:25 wheals: And, for a couple of weeks, start all new trunk players off with a randart spellbook which contains only that spell. :) 20:33:35 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:33:37 wheals: Plus their usual starting spellbook. 20:33:47 i think that was actually what Grunt did for glaciate >_> 20:34:13 i went for ages without appearing in any learndb entries and now i'm in like three, i gotta cool it on being witty 20:34:38 ??deep elf high priest 20:34:38 deep elf high priest[1/1]: drag0n the Anemomancer (L19 HEWz), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, killed by an exploding deep elf high priest on Vaults:2 (nicolae_vaults_triangles), with 229338 points after 78846 turns and 7:47:08. 20:34:41 good one to be in 20:34:48 <_miek> I got my first legit learndb entry the other day 20:34:53 <_miek> as opposed to ones I've added myself 20:35:33 https://twitter.com/crawlcode/status/530267914176188417 <- PleasingFungus 20:35:34 ?/miek 20:35:35 Matching terms (1): miek; entries (3): android[2]: see {miek[4]} | miek[1]: Is losing an unofficial competition with cribozai to get 10 wins first. For good measure miek has to do a 15-runer since Cribozai started with fewer wins | |amethyst[16]: <_miek> ah.. amethyst <_miek> good man! 20:35:47 bh: that one is pretty unfair 20:35:51 since there's an else right after it 20:35:58 on the other hand, what the hell. 20:36:01 ??sdl2[2 20:36:01 sdl2[2/2]: Android: x86 compilation? (fix SDL_image's libjpeg to work properly), stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 20:36:10 !learn edit sdl2[2] s/x86.*, stack/stack/ 20:36:10 sdl2[2/2]: Android: stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 20:36:13 Grunt: Wikipedia says that SDL 2.0.0 was released in August 2013. I am curious -- when was tiles was first ported to Android? 20:36:32 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2038-g98e7084: Actually build against contrib's SDL2 headers. 10(11 minutes ago, 5 files, 15+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98e708459c7d 20:36:32 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2039-g3eb0be3: Bump sdl2-image contrib, allowing x86 Android target again. 10(62 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3eb0be37332b 20:36:34 !gamesby miek 20:36:34 miek has played 354 games, between 2014-01-12 21:37:29 and 2014-11-14 22:12:26, won 7 (2.0%), high score 3663105, total score 21742183, total turns 2917173, play-time/day 0:54:59, total time 11d+17:23:45. 20:36:35 !gamesby cribozai 20:36:35 cribozai has played 468 games, between 2013-07-15 13:23:47 and 2014-11-09 21:18:04, won 8 (1.7%), high score 15490844, total score 38232202, total turns 3476503, play-time/day 0:42:52, total time 14d+9:07:02. 20:36:40 loser 20:36:43 %git f400252 20:36:43 07frogbotherer02 {galehar} * 0.12-a0-422-gf400252: Android port. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 73 files, 2260+ 99-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4002528321d 20:36:47 vimpulse: ^ 20:36:48 PleasingFungus: it looks like the code responsible for figuring out if a monster can walk into something 20:36:50 I remember when I was competing with wheals for... some number of wins. 20:36:53 I wonder if anyone actually plays android tiles. I tried it on my phone a few times and it took ages to play compared to conventional play. 20:36:55 <_miek> PleasingFungus: I'm allowed to count my hypermiek game too 20:36:58 are there stats for this? 20:37:02 <_miek> !won . 20:37:03 _miek has won 7 times in 387 games (1.81%): 1xDDFi 1xGrEE 1xHOGl 1xHOHe 1xMfGl 1xMiBe 1xMiFi 20:37:05 bh: yeah, it's something around there. 20:37:06 PleasingFungus: btw check that first sdl2 commit 20:37:08 <_miek> oh.. it is 20:37:08 Brannock: I feel the same. 20:37:09 I might try Crawl on android if I ever get a tablet 20:37:12 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:37:13 PleasingFungus: well, there was never any question that you were a better player 20:37:15 <_miek> nvm 20:37:17 !send bh a tablet 20:37:17 Sending a tablet to bh. 20:37:18 I didn't think about tablet play 20:37:19 so over time... 20:37:24 that would be much more usable 20:37:26 bh: you can try it on android-x86 in a virtual machine on your PC. 20:37:28 <_miek> I only use the unofficial console version on android 20:37:29 wheals: that became clear eventually 20:37:30 then I became bad 20:37:32 so it's all even 20:37:37 !gamesby . current trunk 20:37:38 PleasingFungus (current trunk) has played 50 games, between 2014-08-03 05:22:01 and 2014-11-18 21:25:00, won 1 (2.0%), high score 15225289, total score 16650877, total turns 441068, play-time/day 0:26:16, total time 1d+23:18:32. 20:37:58 vimpulse: apart from testing... why? :) 20:38:12 Grunt: good message 20:38:42 bh: testing is the only reason. 20:39:06 bh: it's much more pleasant to test _any_ game on a full-size PC than on a tiny cellphone with no physical keyboard. 20:40:35 !gamesby . current trunk 20:40:36 gammafunk (current trunk) has played 214 games, between 2014-08-03 14:48:31 and 2014-11-17 01:45:21, won 0, high score 661808, total score 1911761, total turns 653307, play-time/day 0:51:32, total time 3d+19:55:23. 20:41:19 Does Crawl display a "Please wait..." message when it compiles all the vault description files on first run? Or does it simply show a blank screen? 20:42:14 ugh I need to rewrite docs/develop/android.txt 20:42:17 basically from scratch 20:42:17 rip 20:43:08 wish we could !source docs 20:43:25 I could make a hack I guess 20:43:26 ??robin 20:43:26 robin[1/1]: Account for round-robin games (one player plays the character, then another, etc.). Login: roundrobin, demorobin, ghostrobin, quitrobin, noobrobin, zigrobin, mnolegrobin, ironrobin, mutarobin, elfrobin, slimerobin, hippyrobin, acidrobin, drugrobin, blindrobin, discorobin, blinkrobin, skillrobin, mummyrobin, dgwnrobin, pararobin; Password: robin 20:43:38 unknown monster: "robin" 20:43:38 %??robin 20:44:13 Robin the definitely a goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-6 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:44:13 %??goblin name:Robin_the_definitely_a_goblin 20:44:32 I checked. There's no message shown at all. 20:44:32 Grunt: Perhaps a "Please wait..." message, during db precompilation, would be helpful for users of fast Android devices and slow PCs? 20:45:14 docs are all in one directory right? Make a :beh: to redirect \!source (P?.+\.txt) mb? 20:45:33 vimpulse: 20:45:38 you get a "Loading data" message already 20:45:45 or databases or something 20:46:02 Grunt: definitely not on the PC version of Crawl 0.15.0. 20:46:03 s/P\?/?P 20:50:42 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:50:50 Grunt: Stoats was at 90% zoom 20:50:56 "Hurf durf. Sorry" 20:51:05 PleasingFungus: called it 20:51:55 Someone else complains " It's doing that to me too, except it's when I'm trying to zoom in - I leave little green lines in random places when I autoexplore, like the top row of pixels of an autopickup box. I'm at 110% zoom because this computer's resolution is gigantic." 20:53:13 !lm brannock noun~~host 20:53:13 1. [2014-11-05 14:52:49] Brannock the Summoner (L8 FeSu of Sif Muna) is cast into the Abyss! (Tollund's ghost) (D:9) 20:53:15 h 20:53:19 !lm brannock verb~~host 20:53:20 314. [2014-11-19 23:52:45] Brannock the Hoplite (L26 FoFi of Cheibriados) killed the ghost of bza the Phalangite, a mighty MfGl of Okawaru on turn 58396. (Depths:1) 20:53:42 !log bza mfgl depths:1 20:53:43 1. bza, XL16 MfGl, T:33232: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bza/morgue-bza-20141119-184754.txt 20:53:58 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2040-ge853c1a: Gut and largely rewrite the Android build documentation. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 78-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e853c1a9887b 20:54:06 h m 20:54:11 I wonder if there's anything important left 20:54:31 before I land sdl2 20:54:32 :) 20:54:33 ??sdl2 20:54:33 sdl2[1/2]: TODO: zooming (base initial scale on display density), refactor WME_ framework to line up with SDL2's framework 20:54:34 ??sdl2[2 20:54:35 sdl2[2/2]: Android: stack traces?; watch for more crashes (possibly map-related) 20:54:45 * PleasingFungus guts Grunt! 20:54:47 oh I was going to investigate SDL_mixer 20:54:48 i guess none of those are blockers 20:54:54 !seen gut 20:54:54 Sorry wheals, I haven't seen gut. 20:54:56 !seen gutt 20:54:56 I last saw gutt at Mon Sep 1 19:27:47 2014 UTC (11w 2d 7h 27m 9s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 245 seconds'. 20:55:02 * Grunt guts PleasingFungus like a fish!!! 20:55:24 PF the ghost in question is !lg piginabag vaults:2 -log 20:56:05 but in general I have no clue how to parse those bars 20:56:17 they don't seem to scale up or anything for regular monsters 20:56:21 wheals: did you find out what you needed about monster colours? 20:56:39 yeah, i fixed it 20:56:40 I can fix that monster info thing, although I don't really like how monster_info is getting used so much just for colour 20:57:10 seems like we may need to split the colour portion out somehow, but I guess it's ok so long as you can get a monster_info from monster_type 20:57:11 gammafunk: do it like monster::name: have a wrapper that makes a monster_info(this) 20:57:33 hrm, I'll check that out 20:57:54 right now I'm refactoring...>_>....some....grunt code!!!! 20:57:54 %git aaf2a87e463316e4ea652f3e9b07a2c30bb0a477 20:57:54 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1194-gaaf2a87: Don't set paralysed ghost ev to 0 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aaf2a87e4633 20:57:58 Brannock: ha, I just found it 20:58:10 Brannock: ^ this is the source of your confusion 20:58:12 as I'm about to post 20:58:23 oh, more crawlcode? 20:59:24 uh-oh 20:59:24 rip 20:59:53 ahh I see 21:00:41 I agree with higher precision for lwoer values but I'm not sure how to resolve that without breaking linearity 21:01:08 my issue is that you see + EV for a goblin early on, then you inspect a monster late game (who is more evasive) and it has + EV still... 21:01:10 %git 1a6eb9e56ed36d20587cdb99f34e69b7d922ebb3 21:01:10 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1187-g1a6eb9e: Mostly de-randomize evp UC delay 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a6eb9e56ed3 21:01:19 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-6 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 21:01:19 %??goblin 21:01:20 so it becomes not very useful in gauging monster defenses 21:01:24 goblins have ++ ev 21:01:29 spriggan berserker (04i) | Spd: 10 (move: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 45-63 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | XP: 835 | Sp: brothers in arms [11!AM], berserker rage [11!AM], trog's hand [11!AM] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 21:01:29 %??spriggan berserker 21:01:38 spriggan berserkers have +++ ev 21:01:41 hmm 21:01:47 which is actually exactly the correct ratio 21:01:50 I should have been checking more often, then 21:01:51 my mistake 21:01:55 it's cool 21:02:02 yeah maybe it should round 21:02:06 right now it truncates 21:02:10 but maybe 3 ac should be + instead of .? 21:02:20 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:03 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:03:14 03wheals02 07[singularity] * 0.16-a0-2476-g3e8af37: Can a message. 10(81 seconds ago, 5 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e8af37466c6 21:04:19 ...man, 27 invo disaster area on a zig:27 elf floor 21:04:23 ! 21:04:25 they did not live very well 21:05:32 gammafunk confirmed for elf-hater 21:05:41 ...no! 21:05:55 uh 21:05:57 wheals 21:06:02 did you mean to put that on singularity branch 21:06:19 *rearranges the letters in "gammafunk" to spell "i hate elves"* oh god it was right under our noses this whole time 21:06:47 yes, since otherwise i'd have to force push to use it in the branch 21:07:57 03PleasingFungus02 07[shp] * 0.16-a0-2479-g9c8aac6: In-progress shield work 10(2 weeks ago, 9 files, 138+ 92-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c8aac645018 21:07:59 couldn't you just 21:07:59 merge in from master 21:07:59 ....? 21:08:00 ew 21:08:02 alternately, cherry-pick 21:08:15 then rebasing/merging would get nasty i assume 21:08:40 nah 21:08:56 git's surprisingly good at handling trivial cherry-picks 21:09:06 on the other hand, if you have to modify them at all, all bets are off. 21:09:54 ...which it looks like you would, so never mind! 21:11:55 oh good SDL2_mixer has an Android.mk already 21:11:55 :) 21:13:55 -!- lyrik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:14:53 -!- bcarpe211 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:22 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:08 -!- Guest56540 is now known as Zilis 21:23:31 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:26:48 -!- kazimuth has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:33:45 -!- Cheburashka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:37:29 ...shp! 21:37:37 -!- witty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:57 -!- witty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:14 I forget what the p is for 21:39:23 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-2480-g9076c6e: Fix the disaster area weights and range cutoff, refactor 10(45 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9076c6e9fd71 21:39:25 Progress 21:40:35 I preserved the use of grid distance for the weights, and it's a bit better since now diagonal tiles at the same grid distance of cardinal ones don't get penalized 21:41:58 mm 21:42:00 fewer magic numbers 21:42:01 good 21:42:16 I...I...I refactored... 21:42:21 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2481-g0fed908: Remove butterfly overlap with other 'b's 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0fed9082753f 21:42:23 gammafunk: I am so proud of you. 21:42:30 gammafunk: also imo take a look at this one ^ 21:42:31 giant eyeballs are gone? 21:42:36 Lightli: not exactly. 21:42:40 whew 21:42:48 they just mostly don't show up 21:43:02 except in certain circumstances in extended 21:44:29 k 21:44:39 ??glyph 21:44:39 glyph ~ glyphs[1/2]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 21:45:22 note that caustic shrikes are currently on 21:45:28 LIGHTGREEN. 21:45:56 and iirc some flavor of red is reserved for berserk? I forget 21:46:01 (you knew that, ofc) 21:46:39 so there is exactly enough space to move all the light-coloured 'bs' into the lower colours, if that was a thing you wanted to do. 21:47:03 oh, lightred is still used for monsters, regardless of zerk, but..hrm 21:47:23 <|amethyst> I say only reserve red on the letters that are likely to have things berserking 21:47:35 yeah 21:47:38 berserking caustic shrikes sound scary 21:47:55 indeed 21:48:05 <|amethyst> general solution: make berserk turn on blinking text 21:48:11 heh 21:48:16 <|amethyst> maybe on a garish red background 21:48:18 also make it kick in dubstep 21:48:29 * wheals mumbles something about 256 colours 21:48:41 absurd! 21:48:46 what's next? sprites? 21:48:58 it'll all lead to no good, I tell you! 21:49:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:49:14 <|amethyst> It was better when you could pick up and wield corpses 21:49:17 (just use unicode glyphs instead...) 21:49:34 !seen ontoclasm 21:49:34 I last saw ontoclasm at Wed Nov 19 08:05:08 2014 UTC (19h 44m 26s ago) quitting, saying 'Read error: Connection reset by peer'. 21:49:38 !seen roctavian 21:49:39 <|amethyst> because then you could have a big fish corpse 21:49:39 I last saw roctavian at Sun Nov 16 04:54:44 2014 UTC (3d 22h 54m 55s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 21:49:46 <|amethyst> and when weight became a problem, you would 21:49:54 <|amethyst> drop the bass 21:49:55 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:55 The build passed. (master - 9f66926 #626 : Shmuale Mark): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41548343 21:49:55 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:50:01 imagine if the glyph for ghost was 👻 21:50:03 imagine!!! 21:50:15 <|amethyst> stupid screen 21:50:32 |amethyst: I'm not sure, what do you think about moving b to just etc_random, since it should always be clear that it's a butterfly then? 21:50:37 wheals: imo push your secret branch 21:50:42 these random but fixed colours seem kind of just problematic 21:50:44 unless you're waiting on something 21:50:51 for things that aren't plants, at least 21:50:54 is there a unicode symbol for the thing that shows up when your font doesn't have the unicode symbol 21:50:57 PleasingFungus: i think i did 21:50:59 oh 21:51:00 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, disco butterflies sound good 21:51:05 %git :/host 21:51:05 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-2467-gc79d677: Move ghost crabs from Crypt to Swamp. 10(13 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c79d677febc9 21:51:08 you did 21:51:11 that works. 21:51:20 ETC_JEWEL surely 21:51:20 wait, do plants have random colours in console? 21:51:21 theTower wins again... 21:51:22 <|amethyst> wheals: � 21:51:23 no 21:51:23 that's messe dup 21:51:29 mine has a box thing 21:51:32 <|amethyst> wheals: U+FFFD 'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER' 21:51:44 I remember when I used ancient browsers that gave � 21:51:50 <|amethyst> yeah, they may be rendered differently in your font 21:51:53 but it's been a long time since I've seen that 21:52:04 <|amethyst> though actually 21:52:04 these days everything I use renders a box with the unicode character code in it 21:52:08 which is a bit more specific 21:52:09 <|amethyst> FFFD isn't the symbol 21:52:21 <|amethyst> rather, it has the meaning "I have no idea WTF character that was" 21:52:24 also tbqh I assumed butterflies were ETC_RANDOM 21:52:27 or w/e 21:52:41 was kind of wondering how people could get them confused with other monsters 21:52:57 zotdef.cc: wave_name("BUTTERFLY WAVE"); 21:53:03 not going to even look that one up 21:53:17 <|amethyst> wheals: there's also UNCERTAINTY SIGN ⯑ U+2BD1 21:53:28 that is what i have 21:53:42 well 21:53:46 unless my font doesn't have it 21:53:57 and it's displaying the box since it doesn't have it 21:54:13 <|amethyst> wheals: here uncertainty sign shows up as a crosshatched box, replacement character as a ? in a hexagon, and missing things as a ? in a hexagon 21:54:14 gammafunk: I looked it up 21:54:17 it's exactly what it sounds like 21:54:35 <|amethyst> wheals: in this font in this terminal 21:54:40 fr: butterfly shoals 21:55:02 are bats still in shoals 21:55:24 no :( 21:55:26 reaverb removed them 21:55:31 iirc 21:55:38 <|amethyst> Then there's ⍰ 21:55:41 the theme cost...! 21:55:43 <|amethyst> from APL 21:55:47 <|amethyst> or Mario 22:00:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:51 -!- Sigurd has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:29 _miek: why not get the Crawl ASCII interface merged into trunk? 22:03:56 man this code is bad 22:04:03 <_miek> dunno if it belongs? 22:04:17 <_miek> I asked the other day about getting the ASCII interface published on the main page though 22:04:28 <_miek> noone seemed to think it was worth it 22:04:38 -!- fireprfHydra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:38 what interface is this? 22:04:44 <_miek> android 22:04:54 PleasingFungus: unofficial ASCII version of Crawl for Android 22:05:02 oh. 22:05:30 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:58 <_miek> playing on the phone is pretty awful, but the tiles interface makes it much worse 22:05:59 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-2482-g1dd04fe: Restore butterflies' colour (gammafunk, wheals) 10(50 seconds ago, 3 files, 19+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1dd04fe14d8c 22:06:41 1learn add tiles 22:07:34 note that this breaks the colours of currently-living butterflies in tiles 22:07:38 rip 22:07:39 <_miek> but I heard grunt is working on improving this at least 22:08:07 _miek: I agree that a cellphone makes an awful Crawl platform. But I still think it makes sense to link to it from http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads -- that way, it saves duplication of effort in case someone else decides to redo what you've already done. 22:08:15 yay for jewel 22:08:54 er 22:08:54 s/in case/lest 22:08:58 I really doubt large numbers of people are chomping at the bit to implement ascii android crawl implementations. 22:09:11 dang it I was just about to push 22:09:17 * wheals pushes gammafunk 22:09:30 off a cliff 22:09:30 <_miek> vimpulse: yeah well I suggested it get put there 22:09:33 rip 22:09:37 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:39 <|amethyst> I wouldn't mind seeing both versions for android 22:09:49 i don't think anyone minds 22:09:53 <_miek> PleasingFungus: Have you tried using it on android? 22:09:56 <|amethyst> I mean in trunk :) 22:10:00 why on earth would I use android 22:10:03 do you think I'm insane 22:10:04 <|amethyst> for one thing, ASCII means you can theoretically use a screen reader 22:10:14 !send PleasingFungus marvintheparanoidandroid 22:10:14 <_miek> because you're not on your computer, out and about for whatever reason? 22:10:14 Sending marvintheparanoidandroid to PleasingFungus. 22:10:22 <_miek> lol amethyst 22:10:40 <_miek> the reason for ascii isn't that its ascii, its that the guy who wrote the ascii one put in an actually useable interface 22:10:48 _miek: that's when I use god's own smartphone, the iPhone 5S, as designed by Sir Jony Ives (pbuh) 22:11:03 _miek: i think Grunt has been making some changes to the tiles interface 22:11:04 <_miek> not that its great either, but you can actually use it 22:11:11 _miek: anyway link me to your thing 22:11:14 <_miek> wheals: Yeah so I heard 22:11:17 <_miek> ??miek[4 22:11:17 miek[4/4]: Unofficial console android (0.15.2): https://www.dropbox.com/s/67ue5g99m6yzluo/CrawlApp.apk?dl=0 22:11:18 I'm editing the page now 22:11:18 you'd need to talk to him 22:11:21 <|amethyst> my phone is made by GE 22:11:25 <|amethyst> and plugs into my wall 22:11:33 |amethyst: i thought we removed them 22:11:53 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:56 <|amethyst> ? 22:12:01 !wtf GE 22:12:01 Grey Elf* 22:12:04 <|amethyst> ohh 22:12:20 wheals: General Electric. 22:12:20 _miek: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads 22:12:21 <|amethyst> right, but we didn't destroy all their creations and salt the earth 22:12:25 vimpulse: jokes 22:12:28 <|amethyst> I mean, we did have a save compat break I guess 22:12:33 <_miek> Thanks PleasingFungus 22:12:36 is jony ives a grey elve 22:12:36 np 22:12:39 elf 22:12:41 <|amethyst> but they'll still show up in the save browser 22:12:46 wheals: no he's an elf elf 22:12:51 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:59 elf elf earth elementalist 22:13:01 EEEE 22:13:01 the best kind of elf 22:13:01 <_miek> I'll probably do an update when 0.16 comes out too 22:13:03 PleasingFungus: :) 22:13:14 wheals: stop screaming! stop screaming! 22:13:14 okay people 22:13:15 sound off! 22:13:25 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2041-g686c9dc: Re-enable old Android port's sound with an SDL2_mixer contrib. 10(39 minutes ago, 9 files, 16+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=686c9dc13989 22:13:25 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2042-g2c1b1e5: Use SDL2_Mixer to play sounds on non-Android platforms too. 10(5 minutes ago, 5 files, 37+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c1b1e5b6cb4 22:13:25 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2043-g2bbeb4d: Touch INSTALL.txt to indicate the new dependencies and sound support. 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2bbeb4d9f6ab 22:13:26 P'Fung! 22:13:26 |amethyst: really, we haven't broken chr compat since 0.3? 22:13:26 !learn edit miek[4] s/.dl.0// 22:13:26 miek[4/4]: Unofficial console android (0.15.2): https://www.dropbox.com/s/67ue5g99m6yzluo/CrawlApp.apk 22:13:40 wait 22:13:40 or 0.5, or whenever they went 22:13:41 sound? 22:13:44 what's that? 22:13:49 sounds scary.... 22:13:53 <|amethyst> wheals: I don't think we have ever, except that we changed the packaging 22:14:00 <_miek> !send grunt standing ovation 22:14:00 Sending standing ovation to grunt. 22:14:03 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:06 <|amethyst> wheals: I mean, the chunks at least are compatible 22:14:08 PleasingFungus: Windows has supported since forever; the old Android port had it; I'm just extending the possibility to other platforms :) 22:14:09 are we compatible with 4.0 games? 22:14:14 i assume not 22:14:28 * Grunt goes to check compilation on other platforms. 22:14:29 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:40 supported, and yet... 22:14:46 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:01 !gitgrep 1 Yay. 22:15:01 %git HEAD^{/Yay.} 22:15:01 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-2256-g1e8e0b6: Generate bright versions of the Pan wall/floor tiles. 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 80+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1e8e0b63cae3 22:15:03 !gitgrep 2 Yay. 22:15:03 %git HEAD^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.} 22:15:06 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-2445-g334f978: Replace @a_player_genus@ in weapon noises. 10(1 year, 4 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=334f978988fc 22:15:09 !gitgrep 3 Yay. 22:15:10 %git HEAD^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.} 22:15:10 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-275-ga9eeb4a: Merge branch 'master' into glasnost 10(2 years, 3 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9eeb4a370e8 22:15:13 !gitgrep Hooray 22:15:13 %git HEAD^{/} 22:15:13 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2482-g1dd04fe: Restore butterflies' colour (gammafunk, wheals) 10(9 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1dd04fe14d8c 22:15:19 !gitgrep 1 Hooray 22:15:19 %git HEAD^{/Hooray} 22:15:19 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2414-g6479c4b: Don't claim that items in shops rot away 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 5+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6479c4befe3a 22:15:24 !gitgrep 2 Hooray 22:15:24 %git HEAD^{/Hooray}^^{/Hooray} 22:15:24 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2179-gb75b79b: Statically initialize a map. 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 18+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b75b79b3b158 22:15:28 !gitgrep 3 Hooray 22:15:28 %git HEAD^{/Hooray}^^{/Hooray}^^{/Hooray} 22:15:29 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-2106-g75d9865: Webtiles: scale dungeon canvas by devicePixelRatio. 10(7 days ago, 2 files, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=75d9865c8698 22:15:31 hooray...? 22:15:35 PleasingFungus: Thanks for adding the link. 22:15:37 PleasingFungus: hooray. 22:15:40 %git sdl2^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.} 22:15:41 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1995-g006980d: Poke contribs to get Win32 building again. 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=006980d201b2 22:15:47 vimpulse: I'm always happy to see more people playing crawl. 22:15:47 %git sdl2^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.}^^{/Yay.} 22:15:48 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-2445-g334f978: Replace @a_player_genus@ in weapon noises. 10(1 year, 4 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=334f978988fc 22:15:55 Unless they're anime pedophiles, or nazis. 22:15:58 Then I'm less happy. 22:16:03 But most players aren't those, so! 22:16:04 Grunt: you must be really excited about this, two "Yay."s 22:16:36 <|amethyst> wheals: hm, I think I am wrong 22:16:40 <|amethyst> %git 3a53de70 22:16:40 07kilobyte02 * 0.9-a1-29-g3a53de7: Make the chr chunk forward-compatible, so the save browser can view all games. 10(3 years, 7 months ago, 5 files, 76+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a53de700a19 22:16:47 looking at the opengl bits we use kind of made me wonder if we could use webgl for rendering in the webtiles client 22:16:47 <|amethyst> hm 22:16:52 but the support isn't quite there yet 22:17:04 ! 22:17:07 when was 30? 22:17:12 <|amethyst> wait, was it really that recently? 22:17:17 84 years ago. 22:17:26 i'm pretty sure the plain is to get rid of opengl 22:17:51 PleasingFungus: Both Android download links say "Download Android Version". Maybe better the first should say "Download Tiles Version", and the second should say "Download Console Version (unofficial)"? 22:18:24 <|amethyst> %git a087ed69 22:18:24 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-755-ga087ed6: Bump the major save version, as save compat is pretty thoroughly broken. 10(4 years, 2 months ago, 2 files, 3+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a087ed692319 22:18:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:01 <|amethyst> %git af76f809 22:19:01 07Luca Barbieri02 {by} * 0.8.0-a0-522-gaf76f80: Make map_cell store feat+cloud+item+mons instead of only the topmost one (BREAKS SAVES) (v3) 10(4 years, 5 months ago, 25 files, 629+ 368-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af76f809d3f1 22:19:15 <|amethyst> that was 29 22:19:16 ...seems that IE is the weak link 22:19:18 BREAKS SAVES 22:19:20 rip 22:19:32 well we're still using opengl in the sdl2 port 22:19:47 yes, sooner or later 22:19:49 maybe 22:20:12 good win32 appears to build 22:20:29 |amethyst: and it looks like the 30 bump was for the new save packaging system 22:20:31 <|amethyst> If you want to know about compat breaks, let us tell you about Culture Twenty-nine! 22:20:45 * Grunt blasts |amethyst's saved games back into the stone age. 22:21:13 wheals: I bet the rendering in the webtiles client would be faster 22:21:27 it'd still have to use json, I guess 22:21:35 i thought we use toml now 22:21:41 so confusing 22:21:42 ....are you 22:21:46 ok you're not joking 22:22:04 wheals: that's webtiles-changes 22:22:09 wheals: json is communication between crawl and webtiles client side 22:22:23 ah, it was only for config 22:22:26 <|amethyst> Grunt: And did that set us back five releases? NO! Two, maybe three releases, tops. 22:22:26 for a while we used json *also* to store webserver config in webtiles-changes 22:22:41 currently we store the config in python 22:22:48 but yeah we're switching to toml 22:23:05 <|amethyst> the problem with json being it is extremely human-unfriendly 22:23:36 <|amethyst> no comments, quoted everything, etc. etc 22:23:56 yeah toml is pretty nice, and the python support module is very simple and easy to just ship in the codebase 22:24:47 !blame tom 22:24:47 I pronounce tom... Guilty! 22:24:49 <|amethyst> hey, remember when XML was a thing? 22:24:57 it still is! 22:25:02 |amethyst: we've suppressed the memories 22:25:05 <|amethyst> I mean, when it was "cool" 22:25:10 oh...yeah 22:25:32 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:26:05 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:26 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:27:45 <|amethyst> wheals: I guess "AJAJ" sounds silly though 22:29:45 !send |amethyst Agrajag 22:29:45 Sending Agrajag to |amethyst. 22:30:24 !send Grunt the mighty Agrajag 22:30:24 Sending the mighty Agrajag to Grunt. 22:30:27 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:30 <3 22:30:46 that hits every time...? 22:31:04 for damage so huge that it ends all of the target's lives 22:31:22 03Grunt02 07[sdl2] * 0.16-a0-2044-g1a46593: Touch SDL2_mixer contrib for OS X build. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a4659355f61 22:31:24 !lg * ikiller=robin current trunk s=kmsg 22:31:24 Unknown field: kmsg 22:31:27 !lg * ikiller=robin current trunk s=kaux 22:31:27 9 games for * (ikiller=robin current trunk): 2x a +0 dagger, 2x Shot with a stone by a goblin, Shot with a sling bullet by a goblin, a +0 trident, a +0 club, a +0 spear, a +4 spear of piercing 22:31:37 oops, shoulda been ckaux 22:31:40 also good +4 piercespear 22:31:46 !lg ikiller=robin s=ckaux 22:31:46 No games for wheals (ikiller=robin). 22:31:48 !killratio robin * 22:31:50 robin wins 9.890% of battles. 22:31:50 !lg * ikiller=robin s=ckaux 22:31:50 9 games for * (ikiller=robin): 2x stone, 2x dagger, sling bullet, club, spear, trident, spear of piercing 22:31:53 ahh, that's better. 22:32:00 0x goblin 22:32:14 i wonder, does the github show contrib changes 22:32:17 wheals: I remain unsurprised by this 22:32:24 !lg * ikiller=robin current trunk s=dmg 22:32:25 Unknown field: dmg 22:32:29 !lg * ikiller=robin current trunk s=dam 22:32:30 9 games for * (ikiller=robin current trunk): 6x 5, 2x 2, 6 22:32:47 reminder: goblin toss is 1d4 pre-ac 22:32:59 that said, we'll probably see one within the week., 22:33:19 apparently not 22:33:25 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:34:24 oh my 22:34:25 this merges 22:34:28 astonishingly cleanly 22:34:45 !merge Grunt 22:34:56 !astonish Grunt 22:35:57 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:01 !killratio grinder * recent 22:36:04 grinder wins 20.18% of battles against * (recent). 22:36:05 okay let's double check that this builds 22:36:05 !killratio sigmund * recent 22:36:09 sigmund wins 22.74% of battles against * (recent). 22:36:14 !killratio terence * recent 22:36:18 terence wins 9.756% of battles against * (recent). 22:37:28 Grunt: are you doing windows via cross-compile or vm+msys? 22:37:39 gammafunk: mostly the former at this point 22:37:54 cdo's apache seems to be ailing 22:38:15 crosscompile on msys vm for os 22:38:16 ok, I'm going to keep poking at this resize thing now that I can compile 22:38:16 x 22:38:36 wheals: I'm going to invent a new !command just for that and use it on you 22:39:01 !singularity wheals 22:39:01 Grunt mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps wheals! 22:39:11 !split gammafunk 22:39:24 !markup gammafunk 22:40:26 * gammafunk grumbles about having to install libsdl2-mixer-dev for sound support in a game with no sound... 22:40:44 gammafunk: I'll probably come up with a way to disable that <_< >_> 22:43:15 -!- Krakhan has quit [] 22:43:33 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 22:43:40 http://sprunge.us/DXNM Make sacrifice durability's effect more explicit -- it reads like the effect is deformed body, rather than zero armour 22:43:43 -!- mong has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:17 well. 22:46:31 no point in dithering. 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1970-ge3f08b9: SDL2 submodules. 10(13 days ago, 3 files, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3f08b9775ae 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1971-g7ba147b: Fundamentals of an SDL2 port. 10(8 months ago, 6 files, 205+ 133-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ba147b8b723 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1972-gb39e1ce: Start adjusting makefiles for contrib-y goodness. 10(13 days ago, 2 files, 29+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b39e1cea6671 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1973-g3d4ad5d: Update SDL2 contribs. 10(13 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d4ad5ddd9d4 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1974-g5471642: Win32 build adjustments (includes a sdl2 contrib update). 10(13 days ago, 5 files, 15+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=547164252dda 22:46:44 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-1975-gf459992: install sdl2 for travis 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f459992a2952 22:46:44 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-1976-g4535995: add a ppa that should hopefully include sdl2 packages 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4535995bbcef 22:46:44 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-1977-g15d3014: this ppa uses different package names 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=15d3014c0ae2 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1978-gc371c2d: Travis: still install SDL1.2, so tile gen utils can use it. 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c371c2d767e7 22:46:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1979-g8a14472: Build contribs in the right order and link them in the right order. 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a14472387c3 22:46:44 ... and 66 more commits 22:47:55 ...well 22:47:59 %git 22:47:59 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-2558-g6680ffd: Merge branch 'sdl2' 10(13 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6680ffd2a1d4 22:48:13 heh 22:48:22 guess I can switch back to master 22:48:25 :) 22:49:18 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:55:09 -!- Manslay[work] is now known as Manslay 22:56:10 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:16 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:16 The build passed. (singularity - 449d0c6 #627 : Sage): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/41554439 22:56:16 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:56:29 a singularly good build 22:56:38 <|amethyst> Grunt: hm, is there really a situation where you'd want BUILD_SDL2 but not BUILD_SDL2IMAGE and BUILD_SDL2MIXER? 22:56:44 <|amethyst> Grunt: or at least the former 22:57:05 |amethyst: hm 22:57:17 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:23 <|amethyst> Grunt: also, I get a "Package sdl2 was not found in the pkg-config search path." at the very beginning when I build with BUILD_SDL2=y 22:59:57 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh, I guess my libpng is too old 23:04:17 <|amethyst> Grunt: if I resize the screen larger it seems fine 23:04:40 <|amethyst> Grunt: if I make it smaller bad things happen, perhaps in part because it goes so slow it can't even track the mouse 23:04:49 yeah that's what I was looking into 23:05:10 it seems like it might be slowing down on glTransformf 23:05:23 but I need to debug further 23:05:40 I think it's just the cell rendering loop, and that function is doing the cell translation 23:05:45 !send gammafunk bugs 23:05:45 Sending bugs to gammafunk. 23:07:03 <|amethyst> it's like it's using CPU for that 23:07:07 * geekosaur sees he now has to start over on the macports setup... 23:07:17 geekosaur: rip :( 23:08:25 oh 23:08:31 grunt changed that bit 23:09:05 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:06 ? 23:09:14 what did I ruin 23:10:38 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:45 ok, sdl2, sdl2image, sdl2mixer. hopefully nto too bad... 23:12:05 Grunt: you changed OGLStateManager::reset_view_for_resize 23:12:36 at least I swear this used to be different in sdl2 23:12:59 gammafunk: the only thing I changed was the glViewport iirc 23:13:01 <|amethyst> ugh 23:13:03 (which wasn't there before) 23:13:27 ugh? 23:13:30 <|amethyst> are we passing our warning flags down to the contribs? 23:14:24 |amethyst: it looks like the Makefile passes some but not all warning flags down to contribs 23:14:28 cf. CFWARN and CFWARN_L 23:14:30 <|amethyst> hm 23:14:49 <|amethyst> because I have to imagine these things don't have so many warnings with the upstream build settings 23:15:42 <|amethyst> e.g. we put -Wmissing-declarations and -Wredundant-decls in CFWARN 23:19:49 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:33 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:55 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:46 -!- Dynast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:15 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-2558-g6680ffd (34) 23:24:06 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:27:47 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:28:00 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:30:56 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:16 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 23:32:24 <|amethyst> Grunt: Building seems to mark contrib/sdl2-mixer as dirty 23:33:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh, it's missing the gitignore that the others have 23:34:38 halp 23:34:48 my directory is all dirty and conflicted and weird 23:35:02 I hate and fear submodules 23:35:04 how do I fix this 23:35:32 http://pastebin.com/phFGGsxW ???? 23:35:44 pinging grunt and also |amethyst 23:36:44 that looks similar to the git submodule update thing, isn't it? 23:36:53 I don't understand submodule a 23:36:59 submodules 23:37:03 ok that got rid of everything except the untracked stuff 23:37:23 obviously the untracked stuff 23:37:30 is not important :p 23:37:47 I have removed it. 23:37:57 ok compilation failed 23:38:02 :C 23:38:14 which branch? 23:38:18 master 23:38:24 oh 23:38:32 ok I just needed to submodule init & then update again 23:38:35 god 23:38:37 fucking submodules 23:38:46 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:04 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2559-gb70604b: Don't turn on -Wall etc in contribs. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b70604b980ee 23:39:04 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2560-g28acb16: Update sdl2-image (gitignore) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=28acb164cb10 23:39:11 <|amethyst> err 23:39:29 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:39:32 <|amethyst> type, actually -mixer 23:39:46 <|amethyst> typo 23:39:46 <|amethyst> hm 23:39:53 <|amethyst> how do I actually push the submodule now 23:40:46 |amethyst: feed it the gitorious url 23:41:12 git push git@gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-sdl2-mixer master 23:41:26 +/- the right url 23:41:33 (typing from memory) 23:41:49 also oops 23:41:58 <|amethyst> hm 23:42:06 I knew I forgot something there and .gitignore it is 23:42:13 -!- Redz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:42:27 <|amethyst> I set it in .git/modules/crawl-ref/source/contrib/sdl2-mixer/config 23:42:41 <|amethyst> I changed the git:// to an ssh:// URI 23:43:06 -!- Zilis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:43:16 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh 23:43:22 <|amethyst> ugh 23:43:29 <|amethyst> I screwed up 23:43:32 git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl-sdl2-mixer.git 23:43:42 so 23:43:45 <|amethyst> no, I made my commit on a disconnected head 23:43:59 oh 23:44:43 sCylight (L3 DsFi) (D:2) 23:44:48 |amethyst: gitorious seems happy 23:44:49 that's not a big deal 23:45:01 just cherry-pick it into master, surely? 23:45:10 Grunt: what seems to be happening is OGLStateManager::reset_view_for_redraw gets called way more when the window gets resized to small 23:45:18 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: right 23:45:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: just that the commit to crawl itself I just pushed referred to a sdl2-image commit that never made it to the server :( 23:45:44 -!- Zilis is now known as Guest34878 23:45:45 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:45:54 |amethyst: sdl2-mixer 23:45:59 <|amethyst> gh 23:46:00 rip 23:46:05 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-2561-g747aab2: Actually fix sdl2-mixer submodule. 10(87 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=747aab22115e 23:46:07 Grunt: when I size the window small, the calls to that method shoot through the roof in terms of frequency 23:46:10 <|amethyst> I am in no state to deal with submodules 23:46:24 I am never in any state to deal with submodules. 23:46:41 chequers: the problem is that your version implies that you can't train armour *more* 23:46:48 not that you lose the skill you have 23:46:51 which you do, iirc? 23:47:10 -!- aaa_ is now known as Guest18621 23:47:33 <|amethyst> yes, and the amount of armour skill you gave up determines the quality of the sacrifice 23:47:47 <|amethyst> likewise for the other skill-loss sacrifices 23:48:06 ya 23:48:21 <|amethyst> Honestly it would be easier if it just blocked the body slot or something 23:48:28 that could be neat 23:48:30 <|amethyst> "sacrifice your ability to wear armour" 23:48:35 -!- Stendhal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:44 <|amethyst> ("okay, what about helmets?" aaargh) 23:48:46 body 23:48:47 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 23:48:48 body armour 23:48:53 we have a reserved term for this :) 23:49:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but that doesn't convey the effect on the armour skill 23:49:14 <|amethyst> which also improves AC from non-body armour 23:49:45 honestly you could get rid of that 23:49:50 <|amethyst> I guess could drop that, but then it's kind of weird because while it *technically* has an effect, in practice no one wants to train it 23:49:53 <|amethyst> oh 23:50:06 don't forget that draconians are in the same place here 23:50:08 <|amethyst> or drop the whole armour-improves-all-AC thing 23:50:11 <|amethyst> err 23:50:14 it's "become a draconian" 23:50:16 <|amethyst> all-armour-ac even 23:50:24 that'd be a vicious naga/centaur nerf 23:50:33 <|amethyst> true 23:51:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:23 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:29 caustic shrike (09b) | Spd: 20 | HD: 17 | HP: 90-128 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 4008(acid:7d3) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire, 02cold, 08blind | XP: 4359 | Sz: tiny | Int: normal. 23:54:29 %??caustic shrike 23:54:30 harpy (03H) | Spd: 25 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 19, 14 | fly | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison | XP: 620 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 23:54:30 %??harpy 23:54:42 blizzard demon (122) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 53-81 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 20, 20 | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(140), 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 1119 | Sp: b.lightning (3d18) [06!sil], freezing cloud (2d22) [06!sil], airstrike (0-34) [06!sil], b.cold (3d21) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 23:54:42 %??blizzard demon 23:55:27 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 21 | HP: 62-84 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | XP: 1701 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 23:55:27 %??bat hd:21 23:56:43 -!- Guest18621 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:14 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:50 sCylight (L5 DsFi) (D:4)