00:05:02 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:05:37 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:05:42 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:43 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 00:08:20 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 (34) 00:10:29 -!- Amnesthesia is now known as Sky-Man 00:11:39 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:54 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:44 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:14:39 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:37 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 (34) 00:21:51 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:29 -!- ruwin has quit [] 00:25:32 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:27:10 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:28:22 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:31 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:33:05 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:03 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:36 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:47:17 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:33 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:51:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 01:00:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:09:53 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:12:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:17:28 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:52 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:53 -!- zkyp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:01 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:25:47 -!- eb_ has quit [] 01:31:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:35:38 -!- pentax has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:40:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41:06 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:28 -!- Deathawk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:41:36 -!- Ipsum has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:46:28 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 01:47:25 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:51:17 -!- _Jeff_ is now known as __Jeff 01:51:41 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:53:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:54:08 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:13 -!- titanjones has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:08:32 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:05 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:35 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:33 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:19:02 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 02:19:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 (34) 02:22:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:17 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:25 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:03 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:37 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 02:45:32 -!- Sky-Man is now known as Amnesthesia 02:49:36 -!- kait_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:53 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:00 -!- Orin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:16:10 -!- UncertainKitten is now known as Akitten_Homura 03:16:16 -!- Akitten_Homura is now known as UncertainKitten 03:19:28 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:26:01 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:26:08 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:08 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:05 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:32:12 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:32:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:45 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 03:37:22 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 03:42:31 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:46:37 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:46:58 -!- CacoS has quit [] 03:57:53 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:58:47 -!- grillatactics has quit [Quit: grillatactics] 04:22:38 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:44 -!- zkyp has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:25:32 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 04:34:33 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:12 -!- zkyp_ is now known as zkyp 04:49:13 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:51 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Drowning in a sea of anguish] 05:07:33 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:17 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:16:56 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 05:20:16 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:23 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 05:23:52 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:42 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:24 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:36:07 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:41:52 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:55:19 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:02:41 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:31 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:04:49 -!- recapthcer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:14:39 !messages 06:14:39 (1/1) dpeg said (1d 20h 12m 13s ago): Some simple Ru observations: (1) In the description: "stricken" rather than "striken"? 06:15:16 -!- pokler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:15:30 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:19:23 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:21 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:10 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:19 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:46 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:34 dpeg: did you see i won my gozag game? :) 07:05:33 !lg wheals won 07:05:34 22. wheals the Talismancer (L27 HuAr of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2014-09-23 18:50:39, with 2586318 points after 94353 turns and 5:04:15. 07:05:41 Huzzah! :) 07:05:50 wheals: which branches did you bribe? 07:05:56 elf and zot, in the end 07:06:06 Was the effect noticeable in each? 07:06:27 yeah, got a few drac bands in zot, and a lot of chaos in the elf end vault 07:06:32 <3 07:06:49 I did one Elf:3 very early, and with Gozag I got away with it. 07:07:03 i think the ability should have a better description for how it runs out -- i'm still not sure whether it's based on time, generated monsters, or seen monsters 07:07:21 I think it's actually on bribed monsters. 07:07:27 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:35 How many shops did you buy, and were they useful? 07:07:45 hm 07:07:45 !log 07:07:46 3226. wheals, XL27 HuAr, T:94353: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/wheals/morgue-wheals-20140923-185039.txt 07:08:06 Duplicated anything? 07:08:21 a scroll of recharging very early, for an early rod of striking 07:08:33 the latter of which i only was able to afford from gozag :) 07:08:33 And what's your take on this: given player doubts, I was in favour to allow duplication of anything (including stacks). Okay or too strong? 07:08:33 it's bribed monsters, every time you bribe something an amount gets deducted from the 3k gold you spent on bribing 07:09:06 there's no message when it's about to run out (wasn't the last time I tried anyway) although the color of the status in the status bar changes 07:09:09 (The criticism is that players can duplicate three scrolls of acquirement, but I am not sure this is a problem.) 07:09:23 not that it probably means anything for players when there's no message accompanying it 07:09:29 the shops that i bought felt fairly mediocre, but i got some great loot from other shops -- runboots, maxwell's, rod of inacc, etc. 07:09:44 which may not have been affordable w/o all of gozag's cash 07:09:59 maxwell's tends to be expensive, yeah 07:11:28 possibly i just made bad choices in regard to which shops to buy -- i bought a lot of armour and weapon shops, and while those can be really good, they can also be pretty mediocre 07:11:35 true 07:11:52 scrolls and potions and gadgets at least usually have something, like just !hw even 07:11:55 I like playing Octopodes, and then you're so addicted to jewellery outlets. 07:12:05 blingpode is the best octopode 07:12:07 !log . optm 07:12:08 22. perunasaurus, XL26 OpTm, T:76638: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/perunasaurus/morgue-perunasaurus-20140721-021459.txt 07:12:23 haha, i imagine so 07:12:23 wheals: i was able to test quite a few gdbs and the only ones which could correctly grab a backtrace after attaching were a 7.7 snapshot and 7.7.1 -- that's definitely a big problem. 07:12:30 potatolizard: I spotted some non-bling rings there! :P 07:12:46 I didn't get a single +5 or +6 ev/prot to duplicate :( 07:13:10 wheals, potatolizard: gotta work for a bit. Gozag comments are welcome (tell/mail me), e.g. on duplication. I'm trying to get the god ready for 0.16. 07:13:18 potatolizard: what did you duplicate? 07:13:24 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:24 the +4 prot ring, I think 07:13:29 either that or nothing 07:13:44 I was good on wands and consumables do didn't find it necessary for those 07:13:50 ah 07:13:52 potatolizard: your OpTm is really impressive either way. 07:13:53 s/do/so 07:14:02 well it took quite a few tries 07:14:23 also I think I wore faith on it until vaults:5 or so for even more shops! 07:14:27 yes, they have a good very early game, then become hard 07:14:39 imho that's fine 07:14:45 since for almost every other race it's the exact opposite 07:14:46 interesting, i've heard more the opposite about Op 07:14:46 potatolizard believes in money! :) 07:14:55 yes, agree 07:15:04 well the thing is the tentacle slap + constriction are nothing short of brutal early 07:15:12 wheals: people complain about how hard they are early on, but D:1-3 are really good, thanks to constriction 07:15:24 wheals: i disabled the windows api calls for debugging breakpoints that crawl uses, and still no dice... not good. 07:15:27 hm 07:15:33 !hs . op 07:15:33 139. wheals the Cruncher (L18 OpNe of Kikubaaqudgha), blasted by Jorgrun (Shatter) on Spider:4 on 2014-04-17 22:48:18, with 177879 points after 58709 turns and 2:38:58. 07:15:46 need to win one one of these days 07:16:02 I even thought about doing greatop but gotta give superzigs a go first 07:16:05 !lg . op won 07:16:05 2. dpeg the Archmage (L27 OpMo of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2013-08-18 12:05:28, with 1615984 points after 172485 turns and 13:14:35. 07:16:18 potatolizard: greatop? 07:16:25 !greatrace op 07:16:28 Unwon octopodes for potatolizard: OpAE, OpAK, OpAM, OpAr, OpAs, OpBe, OpCj, OpCK, OpDK, OpEE, OpEn, OpFE, OpFi, OpGl, OpHe, OpHu, OpIE, OpMo, OpNe, OpSk, OpSu, OpVM, OpWn, OpWr, OpWz 07:17:24 anyway as for gozag duplication you could just limit consumables to 1 or 2 07:17:36 at any rate, i think merchant is fine except that it should mention that the cost isn't necessarily a lower bound 07:17:39 since it is for petition 07:17:49 ok 07:19:05 OH 07:19:19 the bribe description is outdated as well, will push a fix 07:19:21 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:29 was wondering why my friends didn't ask for money 07:19:43 -!- __Jeff has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:58 would duplicating randarts be out of the question? 07:20:08 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:20:12 potatolizard: I am more skeptical about that about stack duplication 07:20:43 wheals: thank you 07:20:45 i think randarts being allowed might help encourage people to push it off 07:20:51 that is quite true 07:20:57 since i do think that currently duplicating a good early thing is more or less optimal 07:21:05 however early on you can duplicate... one potion of heal wounds? 07:21:16 maybe /fire/cold/draining 07:21:16 :) 07:21:33 ok, maybe you do want to leave it off a little :P 07:21:46 wheals: but what? I am always too stingy to duplicate early. Freaking opportunity costs. 07:22:16 -!- FShckAway is now known as FatShack 07:22:18 well, i think it's just the general difficulty curve of the game 07:22:50 sure, but still: what? a scroll of blinking when you're down to one? 07:22:54 there aren't that many interesting items to duplicate anyway unless you're an octpode or something 07:23:05 besides that it's largely situational 07:23:28 it just seems rather odd for an ability with one shot 07:24:46 ^ 07:26:00 potatolizard: but one shot = hard decision! 07:29:32 the food conduct was nice, at least it was fun to never press 'c' 07:29:40 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:30:05 i was never low on food past lair, though i got a lot of fruits there, also of course i casted no spells 07:31:58 -!- zzzzzz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:32:07 !lm Wheals gozag 07:32:07 66. [2014-09-23 18:47:31] wheals the Talismancer (L27 HuAr of Gozag) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 07:36:05 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:36:11 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:45 -!- tkappleton2 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:49 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-775-gb3ad705: Give Asterion a retaliatory headbutt, reduce his damage/defenses a bit. 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3ad7055131d 07:39:49 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-776-ge3437cc: Update the Bribe Branch description. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3437cc56625 07:40:02 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:30 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:45:24 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:46:04 directn.cc:2451:13: warning: ‘bool _tobool(maybe_bool)’ defined but not used [-Wunused-function] 07:46:27 maybe_use_tobool 07:48:50 -!- casd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:51:08 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 07:52:12 maybe_bool is a fascinating type 07:52:22 also, wheals: imho revert the nerf part of that asterion commit 07:52:31 pure buff is fine imho 07:52:52 !killratio asterion cv=0.15 07:52:54 asterion wins 0.0% of battles against PleasingFungus. 07:52:55 hm 07:53:04 I forget where to put the * 07:53:08 !killratio asterion * cv=0.15 07:53:11 asterion wins 2.156% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:53:21 yeah ehhhh 07:53:27 that is pretty high for his place 07:53:31 is it 07:53:32 !killratio nikola * cv=0.15 07:53:35 nikola wins 1.000% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:53:38 that is 07:53:39 !killratio mara * cv=0.15 07:53:41 mara wins 3.595% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:53:41 oddly specific 07:53:54 !killratio wiglaf * cv=0.15 07:53:56 !killratio vashnia * cv=0.15 07:53:57 wiglaf wins 0.958% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:53:59 vashnia wins 7.236% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:54:11 !lg * killer=nikola cv=0.15 07:54:12 15. smk137 the Impaler (L14 MfAK of Lugonu), blasted by Nikola (chain lightning) on Elf:2 on 2014-09-14 05:28:17, with 56452 points after 27835 turns and 1:06:50. 07:54:15 hm 07:54:17 coincidence, I guess 07:54:44 !lg * ikiller=kirke cv=0.15 07:54:45 26. rast the Markscentaur (L17 CeCj of Okawaru), mangled by a sphinx (summoned by Kirke) on Lair:3 (spider_nest_entry_webs) on 2014-09-23 21:52:00, with 163088 points after 48323 turns and 4:41:29. 07:55:06 does killratio use ikiller? it must 07:55:12 i was giving in to the complainers who pointed out that his base damage and hp are both better than wiglaf and he has haste too 07:55:15 !killratio kirke * cv=0.15 07:55:17 kirke wins 1.937% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:55:19 yeah, it does 07:55:22 wheals: wiglaf is garbage, though 07:55:25 like 07:55:29 straight up flat-out garbage 07:55:29 kirke is a bit earlier than asterion 07:55:37 is she? 07:55:44 !vault kirke 07:55:45 at least she can be in late D 07:55:45 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l175 07:55:59 mm. I suppose 07:56:22 !killratio agnes * cv=0.15 07:56:24 agnes wins 0.394% of battles against * (cv=0.15). 07:56:28 wow 07:56:35 wow. 07:56:42 !killratio agnes * recent 07:56:44 agnes wins 0.883% of battles against * (recent). 07:56:52 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 07:57:17 wow 07:57:45 !tell |amethyst http://sprunge.us/PCRD?diff 07:57:46 wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 07:58:24 anyway, in conclusion, de-nerf asterion 07:58:46 s/de-/;s/asterion/vashnia/ 07:59:09 !lg devteam ikiller=vashnia 07:59:10 1. Lasty the Black Belt (L20 DsWn of Nemelex Xobeh), shot by a naga sharpshooter (arrow) (led by Vashnia) on Snake:3 on 2014-05-07 19:00:44, with 289200 points after 61334 turns and 4:40:22. 07:59:21 Lasty_: you died to vashnia, we have to kick you off now 08:00:38 no he didn't 08:01:06 he died to an arrow that was led by Vashnia 08:02:18 :whew: 08:02:35 I'm surprised I haven't died to Vashnia. Vashnia scares the crap out of me. 08:02:59 that is correct 08:03:05 she's basically just a high-ev crimson imp 08:03:31 does she actually have ev 08:03:35 !lg * ikiller=vashnia s=name 08:03:36 302 games for * (ikiller=vashnia): 6x qw, 4x gurdl9716, 3x fearitself, 3x Captainscraps, 3x irum, 2x Roarke, 2x inmateoo, 2x BirdoPrey, 2x guedzilla, 2x koxman, 2x Xurdan, 2x talkingcatjazzcat, 2x Tabstorm, 2x PurpleRed, 2x SkaryMonk, 2x Neuromancer, 2x zogre, 2x varinn, 2x Ajonos, 2x smk137, 2x sizer0346, 2x cerealjynx, 2x Shard1697, 2x fevertrip, 2x Avigdore, 2x DrLGR, 2x Odorex, 2x Ololoev, 2x ... 08:03:41 doesn't she have phase shift 08:03:44 qwtactics engaged 08:03:45 Vashnia (11N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 16 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 6/18 | Dam: 25, 703(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(128), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 2810 | Sp: portal projectile, blink allies away, blink away, 04esc:blink other | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 08:03:46 %??vashnia 08:03:58 dang, 18 ev 08:04:07 naga (03N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 5 | HP: 17-39 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 303(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 162 | Sp: spit poison (d10) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 08:04:07 %??naga 08:04:11 huh 08:04:16 wiggly snake bastards 08:04:17 She also has portal projectile and a band of the most dangerous nagas 08:04:19 blink naga 08:04:25 Crimson imps don't have those 08:05:29 idk; i've just found her very easy to walk away from 08:05:38 as can be said of most slow monsters with blink away 08:06:07 -!- tsohg has quit [] 08:06:18 wheals: yeah, that's often true, but if you end up with her and a bunch of her band together it can be hard to get away fast enough to avoid being perforated. 08:06:23 They can stack damage really fast. 08:06:46 wheals: how many slow monsters have blink away? 08:06:59 !killratio vashnia devteam 08:07:01 vashnia wins 1.639% of battles against devteam. 08:07:03 !killratio lamia devteam 08:07:05 lamia wins 7.058% of battles against devteam. 08:07:36 !kw greatplayers 08:07:37 No keyword 'greatplayers' 08:07:38 !kw goodplayers 08:07:39 No keyword 'goodplayers' 08:07:42 hm 08:07:45 !nick greatplayers 08:07:46 Mapping greatplayers => 78291 hyperbolic stabwound xyblor elliptic pseudonut mikee itsmu nht casmith789 jaeger clouded marvinpa reid nyaakitty evilmike toastyp theglow ionfrigate valrus jeanjacques ebarrett surr elynae magistern pivotal crate bart ophanim pac jeremie eeviac absolutego ktgrey bmfx vizer yogaflame wahaha simm danharaj johnnyzero swiss hilariousdeathartist kryft basil n1000 sgrunt ac... 08:07:48 oop 08:07:54 I knew I should have done that in pm 08:08:02 !killratio vashnia greatplayers 08:08:05 vashnia wins 2.027% of battles against greatplayers. 08:08:09 !killratio lamia greatplayers 08:08:11 lamia wins 4.599% of battles against greatplayers. 08:08:19 please don't ask me what the moral is here 08:09:17 note that when he made lamia Grunt was not a greatplayer yet 08:10:26 Well, Lamia had haste, IIRC 08:10:51 !greatplayer Grunt 08:10:57 Unwon species for Grunt: Formicid 08:11:22 !greaterplayer grunt 08:11:28 grunt is a greaterplayer! 08:12:26 Greater but not great. Gotta fix that, Grunt. 08:12:50 he's a grandplayer 08:12:58 which is to say he's grandfathered into greatplayer 08:13:22 GOP: Grand Old Player 08:13:30 oh 08:13:38 wheals: don't sell him short. He's a great-grandplayer. 08:13:41 I almost forgot. MEGA IMPORTANT NEWS from a museum I visited about an hour ago 08:13:43 !!! 08:13:44 http://i.imgur.com/4LRd5Gt.jpg 08:13:49 ^^^ IMPORTANT MUST CLICK 08:13:50 is it a double sword 08:13:53 better!!!! 08:13:54 lol 08:13:55 oh,even better 08:13:59 !!! 08:14:10 I could not believe my eyes when I saw it 08:14:39 !learn add triple_crossbow The Large Triple Crossbow was popular already in the 12th century in the Arabic-Islamic culture area. 08:14:40 triple crossbow[3/3]: The Large Triple Crossbow was popular already in the 12th century in the Arabic-Islamic culture area. 08:14:53 "Excuse me Sir, may I borrow this to show my video-gaming friends?" 08:14:55 beat me to it. imho needs the photo tho 08:15:30 !learn s triple_crossbow[$ http://i.imgur.com/4LRd5Gt.jpg 08:15:30 triple crossbow[3/3]: http://i.imgur.com/4LRd5Gt.jpg 08:15:36 Did they let you shoot it at an ogre to see how much damage it did? 08:15:44 the signs said no touching :( 08:15:45 This has important balance implications! 08:16:35 fr: rename tripple crossbow -> Tripelarmbrust 08:16:40 <3 08:16:41 100% cooler 08:17:13 FR: the Triple Triple Crossbow. 08:17:17 btw, Armbrust literally mean "arm breast" 08:17:23 special case for LANG_KRAUT, of course 08:17:25 ??triple crossbow 08:17:26 triple crossbow[1/3]: Like a crossbow, but three times as good! Base damage 22, base/mindelay 23/10. Historically known as a Chuangzi Nu. Not suitable for shaving. 08:17:37 Lasty_: only if we get unrands Claymost and Legimitate Sword! 08:18:00 The Triple Triple Crossbow has base damage 66 and base delay 69. 08:18:13 lewd 08:18:21 dpeg: deal 08:18:22 The bolt hits the greater mummy!!!!! 08:18:25 I wonder if I should buff Sniper to +27 08:18:31 I think it might be kind of bad right now 08:18:32 not sure 08:18:41 +27 might be excessive, though. 08:18:55 PleasingFungus: I had it in a recent game and it seemed amazing until I got wrecked by two out-of-depth crystal guardians 08:18:57 atone for your sins of gong 08:19:06 But it speaks to the power of the weapon that I thought I could take them :p 08:19:42 Arguably Hellfire needs more of a boost, IMO 08:19:55 s/needs more of a boost/needs a boost more 08:20:53 could be 08:21:04 I've never actually used it, tragically 08:21:17 I have a hard time judging how good the explosive/ac-ignoring effects actually are 08:21:25 you should at least try to clear zot:5 with it 08:23:21 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:47 how noisy is it? 08:24:34 same as regular explosion i assume 08:25:21 imagine me making a frowny face at you 08:25:24 and at the phrase 'regular explosion' 08:25:50 !send PleasingFungus a regex 08:25:50 Sending a regex to PleasingFungus. 08:26:05 by explosion i mean exploding ammo 08:26:13 ??exploding 08:26:13 exploding[1/1]: Explosion effect similar to LRD or Fireball on impact. Allegedly does 2d5 damage regardless of missile. Makes lots of noise (duh). 08:26:21 so, "lots" 08:27:57 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:28:13 Thanks, Learndb 08:28:17 oh that reminds me 08:28:19 ??divine shield 08:28:19 divine shield[1/1]: TSO ability much like Condensation Shield, but made of piety instead of ice. Unlike condensation shield, it stacks with the shield you are wearing. The piety cost is minor. Duration is based on skill in invocation. Bonus SH increases with shield skill. 08:28:45 !learn e divine_shield[1 s/shield skill/shield skill (but not in 0.16+!) 08:28:45 divine shield[1/1]: TSO ability much like Condensation Shield, but made of piety instead of ice. Unlike condensation shield, it stacks with the shield you are wearing. The piety cost is minor. Duration is based on skill in invocation. Bonus SH increases with shield skill (but not in 0.16+!). 08:30:39 -!- derGrimnebulin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:45 !learn edit divine_shield[1] s/shield skill.*$/shield skill (with Inv skill instead in 0.16+)./ 08:35:45 divine shield[1/1]: TSO ability much like Condensation Shield, but made of piety instead of ice. Unlike condensation shield, it stacks with the shield you are wearing. The piety cost is minor. Duration is based on skill in invocation. Bonus SH increases with shield skill (with Inv skill instead in 0.16+). 08:39:39 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:52 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:57 wheals: As in, it's good for Z:5 or terrible? I'm assuming the latter, but could be way off. 08:42:11 as in, you should let your game end in hellfire 08:42:21 Well played. 08:42:49 slow-motion punning 08:42:50 My experience of it was that the damage felt relatively low and the explosions felt weak, but it made a lot of noies. 08:42:52 *noise. 09:01:52 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:59 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:39 !vault 09:13:39 Syntax is '[:[-]]', or the name of a function/#define/vault 09:13:41 !vault grunt_qazlal_sundering 09:13:41 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des;hb=HEAD#l1503 09:16:28 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:57 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:02 THE SHAFT 09:17:12 wheals: lemme guess, d:$? 09:17:18 yea 09:17:27 going thru all the crashlogs 09:18:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:27 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:20:10 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:22:46 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:43 !tell Lasty_ I was a greatplayer before Fo hit stable! 09:24:44 Grunt: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 09:25:17 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:50 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:45 someone else already told him that :) 09:30:30 Grunt: think of winning Fo as continuing education credits. 09:30:30 Lasty_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:30:40 :D 09:35:14 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 09:41:34 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-777-g6dfabde: Fix some shafts. 10(35 seconds ago, 2 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dfabde3ce05 09:42:42 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:42:52 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:54 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:08 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:42 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:56:23 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:16 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:16 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:15:11 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:16:52 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:32 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:35 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:51 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:49 -!- FatShack is now known as FShckAway 10:25:56 <|amethyst> Napkin: some CGIs on CDO are vulnerable to CVE-2014-6271. Changing those CGIs and the scripts they call to use dash instead of bash will plug it for now 10:25:56 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:26:57 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:05 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:01 -!- Gachiko has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:17 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:37:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:37:17 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:23 -!- ark is now known as Guest8409 10:37:59 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:39:58 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:09 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:48:50 -!- FShckAway is now known as FatShack 10:50:29 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 10:52:21 -!- Guest8409 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:53:46 -!- Guest49021 has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:26 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:58:25 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:01:50 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 11:01:50 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [] 11:09:52 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:52 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:56 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:22:15 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24:06 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:47 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:58 Crash to Finder on going down stairs on L:4 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8986 by plier 11:38:53 -!- Goncyn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:50 hmm, if i'm understanding this right, gdb has problems with peforming a backtrace in a function that has the WINAPI calling convention 11:42:45 (WINAPI = __stdcall) 11:45:36 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:04 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:08 this is a big problem, since the function to join on a process is WINAPI. So, when the child process running gdb finally attaches to the parent, it is stuck in a WINAPI call and gdb doesn't know how to go up the stack properly 11:50:30 -!- jacobian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:47 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:55 ahh it looks like that's it... that's not so good 11:57:04 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 11:59:01 -!- Xenobreeder_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:13 I have a user reporting a game they didn't play on their account. Do we potentially have an issue where different people could have the same username on different servers? 12:09:26 I know that was a concern way back when but I don't know if there's a peering process now or what 12:11:06 (The user is "Jeff" and has not provided me with more detail other than http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Jeff/morgue-Jeff-20130120-021501.txt being the game they don't remember playing.) 12:11:25 that is in fact a known thing; there is no peering mechanism afaik 12:11:46 Do we want such a mechanism? 12:11:50 there was some guy who was very upset about about a dozen games by a previous person using his same username (on a different server) which showed up for him in sequell. 12:12:03 I would be annoyed if someone registered dpeg on CBRO. 12:12:09 no you have to register on all servers to be sure that noone messes with your stats 12:12:25 it would probably be nice to have, yes. 12:12:37 pretty annoying imo, because servers like ckr pretty much came out of nowhere 12:12:43 oh. hm. I just realized we left the japanese server guy hanging for weeks 12:12:54 or maybe he left us hanging 12:14:25 ...yeah wow 12:14:39 is there a list of all the servers so that I can register rax :( 12:14:50 there should be a better way 12:15:01 also because serves come *and* go 12:15:02 if scores are aggregated, usernames should be aggregated in my opinion 12:15:07 yes 12:15:16 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:15:32 I know: cao, cszo, clan, cbro, ckr, cdo 12:15:37 did i miss one? 12:15:51 ??servers 12:15:51 servers[1/1]: See {cao}, {cszo}, {cbro} (US) or {cdo}, {clan} (EU), or {ckr} (Asia-Pacific). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 12:16:05 looks like that's the exact list 12:16:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-777-g6dfabde (34) 12:16:44 !lg * s=src 12:16:48 3606719 games for *: 1561375x cao, 963516x cdo, 760016x cszo, 139435x clan, 123881x ckr, 24532x cbro, 24437x rhf, 9527x csn 12:18:37 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 12:18:38 81338 games for * (cv=0.15): 26628x cao, 26094x cszo, 12611x ckr, 7801x clan, 5670x cbro, 2534x cdo 12:18:54 rip csn, rhf, cdo 12:19:09 rip cdo??? 12:19:17 what? 12:19:21 I'm playing on cdo 12:19:33 oh okay it's just fallen in popularity 12:19:48 ya 12:19:52 well it's console only now 12:20:14 !lg * won s=src cv=0.15 12:20:15 1146 games for * (won cv=0.15): 456x cszo, 264x cao, 210x clan, 101x cbro, 61x cdo, 54x ckr 12:20:23 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:43 ckr not doing well. deprived of the powerful wisdom of the english-speaking crowd, their winrate suffers 12:21:25 PleasingFungus: winrate or total wins? 12:21:25 how will they know to play powerful combos like gham, or namo^chei? they are as helpless babes. 12:21:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:21:30 winrate 12:22:06 do not disregard experienced beogh players from korea! 12:22:33 yeah, I am very well aware that individual players may be skewing things severely. again 12:22:46 once burned, twice shy about jokey ckr statistical game analysis 12:22:55 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 !boring 12:22:57 73547 games for * (cv=0.15 !boring): 24355x cao, 24113x cszo, 10679x ckr, 6736x clan, 5518x cbro, 2146x cdo 12:23:12 actually 12:23:14 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 boring 12:23:15 7795 games for * (cv=0.15 boring): 2275x cao, 1983x cszo, 1932x ckr, 1065x clan, 388x cdo, 152x cbro 12:23:21 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 / boring 12:23:22 7795/81344 games for * (cv=0.15): 2275/26630x cao [8.54%], 1983/26097x cszo [7.60%], 1932/12611x ckr [15.32%], 1065/7802x clan [13.65%], 388/2534x cdo [15.31%], 152/5670x cbro [2.68%] 12:23:27 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 / boring o=% 12:23:28 7795/81344 games for * (cv=0.15): 1932/12611x ckr [15.32%], 388/2534x cdo [15.31%], 1065/7802x clan [13.65%], 2275/26630x cao [8.54%], 1983/26097x cszo [7.60%], 152/5670x cbro [2.68%] 12:23:38 suspicious 12:23:44 !lg * s=src cv=0.15 !boring / won o=% 12:23:44 !lg * 0.15 !boring s=src / won o=% 12:23:45 1146/73549 games for * (0.15 !boring): 210/6737x clan [3.12%], 61/2146x cdo [2.84%], 456/24114x cszo [1.89%], 101/5518x cbro [1.83%], 264/24355x cao [1.08%], 54/10679x ckr [0.51%] 12:23:45 1146/73549 games for * (cv=0.15 !boring): 210/6737x clan [3.12%], 61/2146x cdo [2.84%], 456/24114x cszo [1.89%], 101/5518x cbro [1.83%], 264/24355x cao [1.08%], 54/10679x ckr [0.51%] 12:23:50 ha 12:24:02 my query came first 12:24:08 not on my screen! 12:24:12 blame irc lag 12:24:14 well sequell responded to it first 12:24:17 hmph 12:24:19 so there 12:24:25 ill-favored by geography.... 12:24:34 !lg * 0.16-a !boring s=src / won o=% 12:24:35 568/40489 games for * (0.16-a !boring): 47/1176x cdo [4.00%], 217/11792x cszo [1.84%], 131/7625x clan [1.72%], 30/1959x cbro [1.53%], 121/9175x cao [1.32%], 22/8762x ckr [0.25%] 12:24:37 why don't we have an istanbul server??? 12:24:53 anyway yeah ckr winrate is low, that doesn't necessarily mean much though 12:24:58 !lg * recent !boring s=src / won o=% 12:25:00 PleasingFungus: IMO set one up 12:25:01 4796/461781 games for * (recent !boring): 222/11285x cdo [1.97%], 908/51665x clan [1.76%], 296/20396x cbro [1.45%], 2027/148706x cszo [1.36%], 1137/170565x cao [0.67%], 206/59164x ckr [0.35%] 12:25:11 elliptic: the turkish gov't would just shut it down :( 12:25:29 they block pastebin AND oglaf. they're [CENSORED] 12:25:48 blocking oglaf is not cool! 12:25:53 MEGA rude imho 12:26:14 !lg * recent !boring !tiles s=src / won o=% 12:26:18 1321/81348 games for * (recent !boring !tiles): 563/23156x cszo [2.43%], 118/5536x cbro [2.13%], 222/11285x cdo [1.97%], 78/6149x clan [1.27%], 340/35222x cao [0.97%] 12:26:31 !lg * recent !boring tiles s=src / won o=% 12:26:35 3475/380436 games for * (recent !boring tiles): 830/45518x clan [1.82%], 178/14860x cbro [1.20%], 1464/125550x cszo [1.17%], 797/135344x cao [0.59%], 206/59164x ckr [0.35%] 12:27:44 getting a bit closer 12:28:43 !lg * src=ckr !boring s=name 12:28:44 104573 games for * (src=ckr !boring): 3673x kyprion, 1790x hanon12, 1772x LiLin, 1644x tlatlagkaus, 1535x Thrall, 1416x nznznm, 1402x gurdl9716, 1302x irum, 1261x rodofangel, 1246x Esse, 1235x Clo, 1209x dmdlrnd, 1177x AnnaZZing, 1172x SiotWarrior, 1105x spelunker, 1041x Dredmor, 1032x koxman, 909x tjwn77, 871x arisutan, 858x Wong, 830x koko2891, 762x madcurse, 738x rokudenashi, 706x choisan, 690x... 12:28:59 !gamesby kyprion 12:28:59 kyprion has played 5553 games, between 2011-05-14 01:10:56 and 2014-05-29 16:23:24, won 2 (0.0%), high score 19632750, total score 42919793, total turns 3133823, play-time/day 0:19:52, total time 15d+8:25:40. 12:29:29 !gamesby neil 12:29:29 neil has played 9545 games, between 2011-08-10 11:04:55 and 2014-09-24 13:44:59, won 2 (0.0%), high score 1318561, total score 20636096, total turns 25498152, play-time/day 1:18:13, total time 62d+1:02:26. 12:30:02 anyway, enough of that. 12:33:29 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 12:37:53 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:53 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:35 PleasingFungus, just a quick thought (didn't think it was deep enough to warrant a post): active abilities aren't necessarily activated abilities (qazlal's clouds is a good example) 12:43:00 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:57 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:57 Brannock: ah, I wouldn't have called that an active ability myself 12:46:02 question of terminology, I guess 12:46:12 and what you were proposing certainly sounded like an a-menu kind of ability 12:46:17 I indeed was 12:46:32 but my original idea was active abilities, as in, actively changing how you play and what parameters you come across 12:46:40 qazlal is an extremely active god 12:46:44 even with his passive buffs and passive clouds 12:46:57 okawaru is ONLY activated abilities, but he's pretty passive 12:47:19 haha 12:47:21 what's the invocation to request a +0 animal skin 12:47:27 Brannock: your description of an "active" god sounds like at least part of my definition of a "well-designed" god 12:47:30 what an astonishingly circular definition 12:48:14 Okawaru doesn't strike me as a passive god. Oka changes how you play in several ways. 12:50:39 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:50:50 I mean, it's useful to discuss the "impactfulness" of gods, but that terminology is really misleading. I feel like I'm dogpiling here 12:51:12 I'm willing to use better terms if someone can come up with them. I'm hardly an expert on this 12:53:09 all gods should influence how you play 12:53:33 ^ 12:53:54 I see differences in how intrusive they are in your actual play. 12:53:58 It should be taken as a given all gods are intended to affect how you play. 12:54:18 For example, Ash requires some attention with curses, but that comes up rarely. That is why I would call Ash a passive god. 12:54:22 But that's not to say we can't discuss to what degree each succeeds. 12:55:07 OTOH, for Yredelemnul you are using god powers all the time, this includes commanding allies. So Yredelemnul is not passive in my book. 12:55:24 ashenzari is passive, but having everything cursed has a decent impactfulness. not to mention ashenzari identifying items for you, warning you of enemy gear, and monster detection. all those are immediately (and continuously) noticeable/noticed while following ash 12:55:26 Lasty_: Sure! My point is that good god design is largely unrelated to active/passive. 12:55:47 I'm starting to see now PF's confusion with the terms 12:55:49 sorry about that earlier 12:55:49 Elyvilon is also extremely active. 12:55:56 dpeg: well, by Brannock's definition, "active" basically just means "affects how you play" 12:56:08 Lasty_: yes, and I don't think that is a good notion. 12:56:11 right 12:56:16 that's what I'm trying to address :) 12:56:22 and most importantly, ash gives you a huge amount of strategic flexibility with the skill boost, and (to some extent) with the skill transfer effect (though that's secondary) - which hugely affects your playstyle. possibly moreso than the curses. 12:56:23 (: 12:56:42 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:32 PleasingFungus: yes, but all of these are indirect (strategical, if you want) effects. Compare with Finesse. 12:58:06 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:51 So if we can agree on Ashenzari having a notable impact on the game when you choose to follow him -- this impact, I feel, isn't as readily apparent with Sif/Okie/Vehu. Those gods in particular have been frequently the target of community proposals to revamp/alter/improve/etc them. Why is that? 12:59:08 hi all! :) Feature request: when I'm playing online, and I press the '#' key, Crawl should say something like: "Char dumped: see ." What do you think of this idea? 12:59:50 dpeg: oh, I agree. was just responding to Br*nnock's descriptions of the way ash affects players worshipping him, which I felt was missing the biggest thing! 13:00:05 Brannock: I don't think anyone says that Oki or Vehumet have no impact on the game. 13:00:08 brannock: I don't think anyone has said they agree with that premise 13:00:12 vimpulse: play webtiles :) 13:00:26 vimpulse: sounds good, not sure if console can do it? 13:00:36 PleasingFungus: I found it too slow. Also, the connection to the server dropped too often for my taste. 13:00:45 what server were you playing on? 13:00:50 dpeg: console can't do that. 13:00:51 Can webtiles? 13:00:54 and what geographic region are you in? 13:00:58 webtiles absolutely does that 13:01:08 ; I'm in Canada. 13:01:09 it does on local console too, it seems 13:01:16 wheals: correct. 13:01:24 ah. I'd recommend trying beartato, maybe; it's a nice server 13:01:24 |amethyst: around? 13:01:43 but sometimes connections just don't work out (and some lag will be there regardless) 13:02:21 Brannock: If there's an element in the community that feels Sif/Oka/Veh don't have an impact on your character/choices, it's because those gods are more subtle in their influence than, say, Qazlal. 13:02:24 i guess the problem is that crawl doesn't have access to the actual name of the server, would have to poke a hole to pass that in 13:02:26 PleasingFungus: My character on CSZO is too good. I found the +8 orange crystal plate armour, and it's tempting me to learn to spellcast in it :) 13:02:37 perhaps a foolish venture. 13:02:50 as the creator of the OCPA, I support this wholeheartedly. 13:03:00 :) 13:03:17 !send PleasingFungus octopus paladins 13:03:17 Sending octopus paladins to PleasingFungus. 13:03:25 Brannock: But subtlety isn't bad design or less impactful overall, it just means it requires more consideration to use properly. 13:03:31 wheals: to view character dumps, I must visit . I don't know why. 13:03:35 everyone gets excited about ocpa; no one ever comes running to report finding the majin-bo... well, the second child is always a problem, I suppose. 13:03:47 Lasty_, Ashenzari also has a subtle influence, yet doesn't seem to raise as much "dissatisfication" 13:03:47 oh yeah, dunno why |amethyst set it up like that 13:04:12 PleasingFungus: Majin-Bo is rough unless your worship Makh/TSO or have a big health pool. 13:04:24 i haven't heard anyone complain about vehumet being too boring recently 13:04:35 either 13:05:04 Brannock: Why do you suppose that is, when (for example), there's signficant overlap between the strategic benefits of Okawaru and Ashenzari? 13:05:25 PleasingFungus: ##crawl told me that learning to cast in OCPA is probably not worth it unless I go for extended endgame. 13:05:25 Which is sad: I've never done even a 3-rune win, and want to try for that first, since it's easier. Choices... 13:05:29 I think there were a few anti-veh people in the sif reform gdd thread 13:05:35 go for the 3-rune 13:05:47 there will be another occasion for ocpa 13:05:47 The great thing about gods is that you can ignore the ones you don't like 13:06:00 Lasty_: but casting from hp is so much fun! 13:06:08 Ashenzari has a lot of ancillary benefits along with the skill boosts, and the skill boost is tied specifically to a conduct rather than a plain invocation. I'd also venture that his flavor is also satisfying 13:06:16 PleasingFungus: Agreed, but it's rough on a DE or Te, for example 13:06:16 PleasingFungus: OCPA may never come again: I don't play that much. 13:06:23 ...who plays *de*? 13:06:27 Brannock: when I made gods, I had different levels of activity in mind: Elyvilon was intentionally active (she comes with her own playing style, if you want to), whereas Ash and Gozag are intentionally passive. There is a whole range we're using. 13:06:29 Unfortunately lots of people 13:06:38 PleasingFungus: I'm wearing the OCPA, but may win without casting. 13:06:43 vimpulse: if it propels you to your first 3-rune win, that's pretty good, I think :) 13:06:49 PleasingFungus: true :) 13:07:09 I feel bad because I think my terminology is unnecessarily confusing the conversation and apologize for that 13:07:12 PleasingFungus: I've found lots of rods for sale. Maybe I'll buy one. 13:07:22 The rich man's way of spellcasting. 13:07:29 -!- ackack has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:00 Gozag and Ashenzari are fairly passive gods, but they feel like a significant choice, if that makes sense. Not only in your personal conduct, but impact on the game (not necessarily via activated abilities) 13:08:57 It sounds like what you're saying is that Oka needs a more severe conduct that players have to actively manage 13:09:23 Not necessarily. G/A's conducts contribute to the impact of choosing them 13:09:43 Qazlal doesn't have a conduct but feels like a significant choice, and I don't think it's entirely because of his activated invocations 13:10:00 Qazlal has the conduct of waking up everything near you 13:10:01 Well I suppose "being noisy" is sort of a conduct 13:10:20 I guess I should put my dump-notification idea on the feature request wiki? 13:10:23 also no allies, more or less 13:10:44 The conduct Okawaru used to have 13:12:06 !tell |amethyst vimpulse suggests giving the location of the dump when pressing # on dgl -- how hard would this be? does crawl know the web location of the server it's on yet? 13:12:07 wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 13:13:12 -!- RiotInferno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:54 Brannock: btw, Ash got lots of criticism in the design phase and early. People were unhappy with curses (theme and gameplay). 13:14:37 People still regularly complain about aspects of the curse interface/gameplay. 13:14:50 I agree that conducts make gods a lot stronger (flavour, and hence bonding). 13:14:56 Lasty_: yes :) 13:14:57 The current one I hear is "just give a single scroll of curse anything 13:15:13 wheals: Cool! Thank you. 13:15:13 Dear all: Another idea I had, refined by raskol: Perhaps .txt or .lst dump files (but not morgue files) should include shopping lists. 13:15:38 shouldn't be hard 13:15:43 To Be Fair, the only reason that ash was originally implemented with multiple curse scrolls is... those scroll types already existed! 13:15:56 maybe .lst would mention that an item that was in a shop was on the list 13:16:13 wheals: makes sense. You see, .lst files already include shop items and their gold prices, but don't mention which are on the shopping list. 13:16:15 I think Ash's flavour is super neat, FWIW. 13:16:24 -!- Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:48 PleasingFungus: Yeah, and there's some argument that not always getting to curse what you want is interesting. 13:17:02 maybe. I'm indifferent on the subject 13:17:04 No strong opinion, myself. I like weapon and ring swapping, so I generally don't like playing Ash. 13:17:06 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:17:08 the real annoyance to me is that it's optimal to drop & pray over rc scrolls 1 at a time 13:17:16 yeah, that's definitely not great 13:17:18 until you get the types you want (or run out of spare rc) 13:17:19 Brannock: gods are worked upon all the time (including the olds ones)... if you have specific proposals, tell us. I think it's hard to talk about them on general grounds, and get specific ideas out of that. 13:17:45 wheals: Though, at the same time, shopping lists would be more discoverable if they were inside .txt files: more people look inside those files. 13:17:49 merging curse scroll types *would* solve that, at least. idk if that's enough to justify the change, but something to weigh in the balance, at least 13:18:03 PleasingFungus: it would remove choices. 13:18:06 dpeg: have you been reading the sif gdd thread? there are certainly a lot of ideas there! 13:18:07 dpeg, I made the proposal a couple days ago for a guaranteed success invocation for sif. I don't have any proposals right now for other gods. I'm not really the sort to actively want to transform a game on a whim 13:18:18 (And I'd much rather improve the interface than remove choices.) 13:18:44 but, imo, flavor is important and occasionally underappreciated. You mentioned before "bonding", can you explain a bit about that idea dpeg? 13:18:44 PleasingFungus: I have! And I've discussed Sif with gammafunk, and even !told him about thread. There are some concrete ideas... 13:18:50 I am more than open to good interface ideas 13:18:56 good god interface ideas 13:19:02 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:19:02 (except for ely, about whom I don't care at all) 13:19:37 i think ely interface is fine 13:19:44 Brannock: with some gods, you feel more "connected" than with others, I guess. For example: Trog book burning is not very gameplay relevant, but I think it helps the player-god connection. The old gods tended to feel like slot machines, we try to get away from that. 13:20:22 I think book burning was a success when defined like that, yes 13:20:25 wheals: I was just punning, and then being needlessly & senselessly rude 13:20:30 Interface is definitely not the problem with Ely 13:20:48 Brannock: this is also why I geneally dislike god gifts dropping on the floor: regardless of the gameplay, Vehumet's spell gifts are a lot more engaging than books on the ground, in my opinion. 13:20:52 PleasingFungus: good god, you're right! 13:20:59 precisely 13:21:14 * dpeg always thought PleasingFungus is a lefty. 13:21:28 I still love the trog screenshot I saw a while back where someone arranged a set of books to spell something - TROG? - and then burned them all 13:21:36 haha 13:21:37 nice 13:21:41 <3 13:21:41 while ascending, iirc 13:21:57 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:22:24 I thought that the guaranteed-cast idea for Sif was interesting, but it does raise a ton of balance issues, and I suspect the people who currently like playing Sif would feel that it destroys what they like about the god. 13:23:03 Lasty_: always gotta be willing to burn a bridge. Cannot design if you keep the luggage of the past. 13:23:14 Does Sif really need anything done anyway 13:23:44 Whistling_Beard: what does "really need" mean? Technically, no. Can the god be improved? Sure! Is there concensus on how to? No again. Etc. 13:23:57 I was very concerned with balance issues, but with sufficient costs it becomes difficult to abuse. There's also the issue of spell power and hunger cost, which I expanded on a little. 13:24:01 "really need" means "is there a problem" 13:24:18 I don't think I understand how it destroys what people like about Sif. 13:24:21 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:21 dpeg: I generally agree, and I don't actually think current Sif is much fun to play, but I like the idea that there are gods for everyone, and maybe Sif is crucial to that. 13:24:22 Can you explain that a little? 13:24:29 Whistling_Beard: one interface problem is that rapid fire pressing 'aa' does get old. 13:24:52 Okay, so that's just an interface improvement to make.. 13:25:06 Why change the rest of the god 13:25:19 Lasty_: well, I don't think you can make Sif not a god for all-around spellcasting and keep the name. But details can be changed. Don't be afraid about hostility. Hostile comments are for free :) 13:25:35 Whistling_Beard: because we feel there is more room for improvement? 13:25:42 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:43 Brannock: This is mostly a guess, but I would assume that the people who like Sif appreciate that the god isn't too intrusive. It offers one very powerful lever to pull and some passive benefits. 13:26:19 I would characterize channeling as a weak lever that you repeatedly pull :P 13:27:03 Guaranteed cast is largely a midgame ability that you can choose to ignore (especially if you don't want to memorize spells that you wouldn't be able to use otherwise), but I do see your point 13:27:07 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:08 I will have to think about it 13:27:14 Idk, I guess I see it this way -- once the initial concept is in place, changes should be about fixing overt problems only 13:27:28 Or rebalancing or w/e 13:27:29 oh, I certainly wouldn't agree with that 13:27:33 Whistling_Beard: no! 13:27:43 dpeg: I'm not worried about hostility -- god knows I get enough of that whenever I try to post something in a thread with damiac or any time I try to bring up mermaids -- I'm thinking about making sure that there's a god available that suits the significant number of Sif fans out there -- including gammafunk 13:27:43 And should be done in a way that least alters the god's play 13:27:51 Whistling_Beard: play DCSS 0.1 some time, and have a look for yourself. 13:27:55 and neither have crawl's developers - consider the history of okawaru, kiku, almost any of the old gods really... 13:28:10 Lasty, one of my primary concerns with that proposal was trying to stay as true to Sif's theme as much as I possibly could 13:28:10 but esp those two 13:28:17 Brannock: I don't want to discourage the guaranteed cast idea, but I'd run it by Sif fans like gammafunk 13:28:22 re: increased capability/aptitude at casting, rather than direct power increase 13:28:30 again, I thought it was an interesting idea 13:28:31 PleasingFungus: heck, check old vs new Zin. 13:28:32 I believe dpeg is already planning to discuss it with gammafunk 13:28:44 yes 13:28:49 dpeg: or vs old old zin :) 13:28:55 (I was considering mentioning zin, and then I didn't!) 13:29:07 No god was left unturned! 13:29:12 I wish I remembered more of the 0.2.7/0.3/0.4 days 13:29:25 I do remember praying being a major mechanic 13:29:27 glad that got streamlined 13:29:28 very glad 13:29:32 no 0. back then 13:29:44 ??0 13:29:44 0[1/1]: The glyphs for orbs. Unless they're orbs of destruction. Or orbs of fire. Orb orbs of electricity. Or a great orb of eyes. 13:29:48 Whistling_Beard: I think I know where you're coming from, but I am very happy that Crawl is willing try out radical changes. Sometimes we have to back down, but we get much farther this way. 13:29:57 that's how old it was, it was a bigger number! 13:30:06 oh, I see 13:30:09 What's your definition of farther? :X 13:30:37 Whistling_Beard: greater risk to fail, but a chance to improve much more than the interface. 13:30:57 I guess what I see as ideal is a reasonably constant game that mainly expands outward, but *shrug* 13:31:19 Whistling_Beard: DCSS had content cutting built in from the start. I am sure that this is crucial to the success. 13:31:35 We didn't remove a god yet, although once we almost came close. 13:32:04 How familiar are you with city design ideas? At the risk of analogy abuse, sprawl outward in perpetuity is unhealthy for a city. You need to continually maintain and occasionally revamp the city core 13:32:12 wow 13:32:18 the 'funk is still arguing for removal! 13:32:21 nice analogy 13:32:21 which god? 13:32:23 In any case, even if the improvements are more drastic I feel like they should be in response to some identified issue 13:32:26 deicide, a dreadful word... 13:32:27 Lasty_: sshhh 13:32:34 PleasingFungus: but a decent band! 13:32:41 oh, I haven't heard of it 13:32:52 proto-death metal from Florida 13:32:56 Although I think a Dungeon Sprawl: Stone Soup branch would be amusing 13:33:02 oh, i thought you meant a 'band 13:33:04 I'll concede content cutting, but... 13:33:05 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:07 help, I'm a nerd 13:33:07 haha 13:33:38 Lasty_: nem (pbuh) 13:33:38 fr: killing enough demons kills nem since there are no more demons to harvest ichor from 13:33:47 PleasingFungus: I figured 13:33:56 Whistling_Beard: (1) DCSS has added *a lot* over the years. Much, much more than has been cut. (2) Things that get changed don't get changed on a whim. There is always an identified issue. (Too many things to do even so.) 13:33:59 FWIW, I agree w/ gfunk 13:34:06 Alright 13:34:11 * PleasingFungus removes Lasty!!! 13:34:14 * dpeg prepares the ceremonial knife. 13:34:15 nem is real cool 13:34:20 and fun and good 13:34:23 Have you played trunk nem? 13:34:26 Is there somewhere I can see all of the issues people have identified for Sif then? 13:34:28 a little. it's bad 13:34:32 but nem has been good before 13:34:33 * dpeg gives PleasingFungus the Ace of Spades. 13:34:38 so I don't see why it can't be good again 13:34:38 OldNem had good aspects 13:34:57 Lasty_: old Nemelex or old old Nemelex? 13:35:09 old^1 13:35:11 I'm talking old but not old-old, for the record 13:35:11 old new nemelex or new new old new old nemelex? 13:35:12 Whistling_Beard: right now, only on the forum thread. I hope we can put something on the devwiki soon. 13:35:17 gammafunk: all of the above. 13:35:18 Alright 13:35:22 dang 13:35:38 Quite Powerful 13:35:49 everything nemelex is old again 13:35:58 Nemelex best meme 2014 13:36:06 Memelex 13:36:16 everyone complaining about removing mountain dwarves, how come no one complains about removing portable altars? 13:36:18 that's my question. 13:36:19 PleasingFungus: Nemelex lost so much when the portable altars were gone. My heart wept on that day. 13:36:26 ahaha 13:36:30 thank you, dpeg 13:36:31 1learn add dpeg 13:36:50 PleasingFungus: how can you even compare that with the stinking dwarves? 13:37:23 dpeg: how do you feel on our shared "remove nem" opinion these days? 13:37:35 http://www.kornbluthphoto.com/images/StavelotAltar_6-7.jpg 13:37:38 it'll never happen with all the work that went into changing nem, I think 13:37:49 but there's still a lot more to go before most would be happy I guess 13:37:55 oh, I am not sure about that 13:38:27 honestly, I feel like the recent work makes it more likely - especially now that the responsible dev has vanished for-ever 13:38:40 !lg * cv=0.14 / nemelex 13:38:41 1805/137117 games for * (cv=0.14): N=1805/137117 (1.32%) 13:38:46 !lg * cv=0.15 / nemelex 13:38:47 384/81415 games for * (cv=0.15): N=384/81415 (0.47%) 13:38:51 I refuse to believe that our beloved zipcode has left us forever 13:38:59 PleasingFungus: zipcode is gone? 13:38:59 !seen n78291 13:38:59 I last saw N78291 at Wed Jun 4 03:43:47 2014 UTC (16w 14h 55m 8s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: null'. 13:39:02 four months 13:39:02 NULL 13:39:03 he has been around forever 13:39:09 and now he is gone. 13:39:12 like 8 years ago 13:39:15 he will be back 13:39:23 the prophecy! 13:39:26 requisat in pace, dei gloria mundi... 13:39:37 or something like that 13:39:49 they all come back... invested so much time into this pointless folly, have to come back to justify it for themselves 13:39:58 dang 13:40:00 should've given a little prayer when I visited the hagia sophia today, just for him. 13:40:08 :) 13:40:13 oh, gammafunk, did you see, did you see! did you see triple_crossbow[3 13:40:13 yes 13:40:14 whatever happened to stabwound? 13:40:21 ??triple_crossbow[3 13:40:21 triple crossbow[3/3]: http://i.imgur.com/4LRd5Gt.jpg 13:40:22 !seen stabwound 13:40:22 I last saw stabwound at Thu Feb 20 22:33:07 2014 UTC (30w 5d 20h 7m 15s ago) quitting, saying '*.net *.split'. 13:40:30 Brannock: players don't always come back 13:40:52 good final message 13:41:44 That looks like not a weapon one could carry around 13:41:45 As I said, I believe the fundamental underlying problem is the card system: in retrospect, I think it was a very bad idea (by Linley! :) to have a god that (a) copies all aspects of the game (ranged damage, summons, escape etc.) and (b) does it randomly. Xom is different, you cannot game him. 13:41:56 i remember n78291 vanishing at the end of 2013 as well, i'm sure he'll be back eventually 13:41:56 oh wow, nem was linley's idea? 13:42:23 I think so. One of us did this awesome piece of ludo-archeology (Grunt?). I can look it up. 13:42:32 dpeg talked to him about it once even 13:42:34 ludo-archaeology, eh...? 13:42:38 ??history 13:42:38 history[1/1]: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/the-dawn-of-stone-soup 13:42:40 So, I think the Nemelex idea (Evo-based god build around random card effects) is not inherently bad, but I do think it needs a lot of work. Specifically, I think someone needs to rethink Nemelex from the ground up, including piety gain, when decks are gifted, what kinds of decks, what Nemelex's decks do -- all of it. 13:42:52 idk. I think I disagree; I think the fundamental idea is good 13:42:54 yeah that was the complaint I communicated a lot, dpeg, although crate notably said he thought it was perfectly fine as an idea (god of random effects) 13:43:04 yeah, that old crate post was pretty persuasive for me 13:43:15 I found crate's post persuasive as well 13:43:19 < LinleyH> dpeg: do you still have to wield cards to use them? < LinleyH> dpeg: that was a mistake. 13:43:20 and also, playing nemelex and enjoying it (without wonders cheese, since I didn't understand it well enough to cheese) 13:43:25 well crate feels (apparently) that the current nem isn't very objectionable, but that seems harder to buy 13:43:29 support for removing draw one... 13:43:36 yeah idk about that one. 13:43:39 Maybe I'll try to come up with a new Nemelex approach once I run out of todo list items 13:43:47 re cratepinions 13:44:09 Lasty_: you never run out of todo list items, trust me 13:44:14 PleasingFungus: a word I borrow from Brent 13:44:19 wheals: ha, true 13:44:28 i generally agreee with duvessa's/crate's opinions but dcss just isn't realistically where a game with as principles as nice/pure as the ones they're espousing can exist 13:44:29 Every Monday I get a fresh list it seems like 13:44:33 I don't know why Monday 13:44:43 mondays!!! 13:44:48 so many cooks in the kitchen 13:44:59 I'll remove myself, then; it's about bedtime. 13:45:04 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140923165902]] 13:45:07 Dream of triple crossbows 13:45:09 rip 13:45:17 from Steve: Nemelex (3.10) gives portable altar, decks (tricks [escape mostly], power 13:45:20 [war mostly], summonings, wonders) 13:45:23 counts the bolts as they go shooting over his bed 13:45:47 Steve is linley here? 13:45:50 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:02 and not that *other* Steve of course 13:46:17 I think it'd be interesting to bring more of a gambling element to Nemelex. Not just the randomness of what happens when you draw the cards, but also some form of gambling flavor/mechanic beyond that. 13:46:40 Lasty_: the thing is that Crawl is not a game that really supports tactical gambling. 13:46:49 "Nemelex says, I'll wager you 5 cards that you can't kill that ogre in 3 turns." 13:47:16 Well one problem I had with current nem (and others have agreed with this, but it's by no means universal I guess) is that by having descruction/summoning together it's hard to get effective combat out of the deck 13:47:23 +1 13:47:30 Also by having buffs/escape in the same dec 13:47:31 k 13:47:34 yeah 13:47:46 and making those two into one was towards that aim of "randomness" 13:47:55 well simplification as well I suppose 13:48:00 What I most dread about the laundry list of effects ("cards") is that you have to come up with many ideas (they should be distinct from spells, etc.), then keep them up-to-date, and document them in-game. I think it is the wrong kind of design. We have one god like this, and it is okay, but I would certainly object if someone proposed a Nemelex these days. 13:48:04 destruction + summong would work 13:48:12 but current killdudes deck is nothing like destruction + summoning 13:48:18 dpeg: i agree with that 13:48:23 it's 99% wtf is this crap and 1% killdudes 13:49:00 those percentages may be slightly exaggerated, but yeah the mixing creates serious tactical problems 13:49:55 and we (Haran and I) spent a lot of time (right here on ##crawl) coming up with new effects... I also think that Nemelex's active powers improved the situation (I was really proud of Triple Draw and Stack Five back then)... but I still think it's not good enough :) 13:50:44 yeah, but I know that elliptic was not terribly happy with the remove nem thing, and MPA was rather against it 13:50:44 Dear all: What should the key do, by default, in Crawl? (Right now, it just shows "Unknown command".) 13:50:57 In GUI software, it tends to mean "Help". 13:51:23 It should print: "No-one can help you now." 13:51:27 :) 13:51:40 gammafunk: my reasons for being not happy with remove nem are mainly nostalgia, not anything substantial 13:51:55 gammafunk: yes, it is a drastic removal, especially since so much effort went into it. Then again, we have removed species, backgrounds and branches, too. 13:51:56 (it was my first win, and I used to like it quite a bit) 13:52:22 yeah nem was my second win, and I felt proud of learning this weird god that people were kind of afraid of 13:52:30 elliptic: people who want to play Nemelex can always download and install an older version of Crawl. 13:52:30 "I have forgotten my first girl friend but I remember my first Crawl win as if it was yesterday." :) 13:52:31 !lg gammafunk won nem 1 13:52:32 1. gammafunk the Farming Talismancer (L27 OpTm of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-12-28 02:43:15, with 8501657 points after 219610 turns and 2d+10:40:42. 13:52:42 !lg gammafunk won nem 1 x=v 13:52:43 1. [v=0.12.0-a0] gammafunk the Farming Talismancer (L27 OpTm of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-12-28 02:43:15, with 8501657 points after 219610 turns and 2d+10:40:42. 13:52:54 please don't embarrass me 13:52:59 gammafunk: you never got to appreciate the glory of 0.5 nem :P 13:53:08 oh, with the altar? 13:53:15 no, that was before my time 13:53:24 ddpy, 13:53:27 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:31 the key sequence to sacrifice someting 13:53:51 but 0.12 is after a lot of nem nerfs happened 13:54:24 I know that a large part of why I liked old nem was that it was broken in several different ways 13:54:35 What do you think of this: Nemelex grants you the Deck of Nemelex on joining. After you draw through it, you have an "unshuffled deck of Nemelex" in your inventory, and drawing from it does nothing; one of the things Nemelex can do is reshuffle that deck, allowing you to draw each card in it again. Random decks are replaced with cards to add to your Deck of Nemelex, and Nemelex may offer cards to add as well. 13:54:39 elliptic: You were a player back then, don't forget this! 13:54:39 and then after it became less broken I just found nem annoying 13:54:55 I still play a little! 13:55:17 To prevent tracking issues, every time you draw you get a random card (no stacking), but perhaps some cards could be "marked" and be noted when they're the top card. 13:55:46 And you could use Nemelex's abilities to list all cards in the deck (not in order) (free) or to draw from a notional deck of escape (costs piety) 13:55:50 elliptic: no, I don't mean it like this. As a developer you think about things differently than when you are (only) a player. 13:56:49 Yeah probably the "coolest" part about nem was how you were kinding getting a mini-wiz-mode when you figured him out 13:56:52 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:11 s/kinding/kind of/ 13:57:54 obviously, we cannot remove Nemelex: what we do for tournaments without NEmelex' choice? 13:58:11 Zot's Choice? 13:58:16 Xom's Choice 13:58:45 Dpeg's Choice 13:59:22 Xom is another mascot, true that 13:59:28 xom's choice sounds more apropos anyway 14:00:27 No bites on the Nem suggestion, huh? I'll work up some more detailed ideas and try those another time. 14:00:31 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:35 Plo(o)g's choice 14:00:50 ugh 14:00:57 Lasty_: reminds me a bit of what eb_ was saying, i think 14:01:02 though he was pretty vague 14:01:06 Lasty_: sorry about that 14:01:08 What'd eb_ say? 14:01:25 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:02:01 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:42 second, looking searching the logs 14:02:56 well, it takes a lot more than a second :( 14:02:59 haha yeah 14:03:20 but i think he did suggest a single deck, and more stuff to manipulate it 14:03:50 * dpeg whispers about c a r d s 14:04:07 19:47:17 I have a bunch of crazy stuff I'm thinking of but none of them work with each other and it's everything just still in brainstorming 19:47:49 includes probably terrible ideas like deck tabbing 19:48:16 and less immediately terrible ideas like having a single, infinite deck 14:04:35 my idea of nemelex is to make it more like "draw four, the god" 14:04:44 hmm 14:04:47 this is all from sep 4 14:04:54 Not what I had in mind, but probably also a good idea 14:05:16 spe 2, rather 14:19:29 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:20:25 we need to like force eb to write his stuff down somewhere 14:20:38 someone just lock games on his account with a warning message 14:20:52 "Your account has been suspended because you haven't redesigned Nemelex Xobeh" 14:22:25 hehe 14:22:39 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:54 in sad news, I got a mail by Kerwhin, who coded the equipment god... he dropped the ball 14:23:30 this is not ignis you're talking about? 14:23:32 there are so many good ideas there... but we have enough religious construction sites, gotta hang on for a bit 14:23:39 this is the I god, indeed 14:24:04 That's pubby, correct? 14:24:10 maybe my memory is hazy 14:24:12 no, pubby has been gone for a longer while 14:24:24 yeah I talk to pubby on cszo 14:24:28 like once a week 14:24:31 oh :) 14:24:33 and he sometimes makes suggestions 14:24:42 he wands his all-in-one-lowlevel-wand idea 14:24:49 to go in 14:24:49 there's a core good idea there 14:24:54 but it's got some problems 14:25:15 eg /weakness that uses the low-level zap (flame/frost) based on monsters resist 14:25:19 and falls back to mdart 14:25:58 one problem is electric eels 14:26:36 %git 14:26:36 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-777-g6dfabde: Fix some shafts. 10(5 hours ago, 2 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dfabde3ce05 14:28:32 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:35 * wheals shoves gammafunk down a shaft! 14:28:36 gammafunk: a wand that looks at monster resists sounds weird to me, since then you have to choose a single "target" for the wand 14:28:47 and that isn't how targetting works really 14:29:29 also, monster resists aren't common enough early game for this to be that interesting IMO 14:29:47 -!- twzt_ is now known as twist 14:30:18 undead have rC (but are mostly rather weak), and then there are just a handful of other monsters like crimson imp or ice beast 14:31:14 yeah 14:32:02 I was thinking how it would technically work, but in practice it's not going to be an interesting replacement 14:34:20 While we are talking about wands, I have a simple, small 0.16 proposal: evoking a wand with unknown charges should deduct more charges. I suggest 1d3. 14:34:52 dpeg: that was discussed to death a while back 14:35:04 yes, and with 0.15 out, I propose it :) 14:35:10 i don't remember much opposition 14:35:14 This is a serious proposal. It is intended to address the "fire every unknown wand at two squares away from you". Moreover, if you find a good wand early (cold etc.), you may want to spend ?id on it. 14:35:31 If I could code, I'd do it myself. 14:35:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:51 dpeg: personally I don't like the idea very much (for reasons I explained then) 14:36:02 dpeg: I'd far rather make wands just ID on pickup 14:36:02 "Moreover, if you find a good wand early (cold etc.), you may want to spend ?id on it." How would you know you found a good wand early? 14:36:21 dpeg: oh, wait, this is slightly different from the proposal then 14:36:40 Lasty_: for example, your second wand of cold 14:36:42 dpeg: the proposal then (mainly supported by PleasingFungus) was that wands of unknown type should have this effect 14:36:56 yes, this is about wands of unknown number of charges 14:37:12 dpeg: so even if you know what type of wand it is, you deduct extra charges if you don't ID it before your first use? 14:37:32 Scroll of ID = miniature scroll of recharging 14:37:34 sounds like it is every use, not just first 14:37:48 until your evo skill IDs the charges 14:37:57 that is sort of weird IMO 14:37:57 evo buff 14:38:02 people already id their top tier wands... I am trying to increase the number of potential ?id targets... one would hope that in a particular situation the answer is "it depends" (on number of ?id scrolls, wands found, and threat) 14:38:04 it means that evo skill lets you get more charges out of wands 14:38:20 not necessarily bad, but a bit weird 14:38:31 the mechanic by which evo skill IDs charges might need to be examined then 14:38:36 If anyone wants to, I can provide a themating underpinning for the effect. 14:38:45 like I have no clue what the current formula is 14:38:59 (because it doesn't really matter at the moment) 14:39:05 yes 14:39:11 yeah it's just "oh that's nice..." 14:39:19 -!- Jho has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:21 I think Evo matters on wand power now, right? 14:39:24 yes 14:39:31 ??wand[power 14:39:32 wands[1/3]: Yay for wands. Wands use {evocations}. Higher evocation skill allows you to identify remaining charges and increases wand power. Can be recharged with scrolls of recharging. 14:39:44 not the one I was looking for 14:39:46 dpeg: so I think this idea is interesting, but I'd want to combine it with identifying wand type on pickup 14:39:48 ??wand[2 14:39:49 wands[2/3]: Wand list: cold, confusion, digging, disintegration, draining, enslavement, fire, fireball, flame, frost, hasting, heal wounds, invisibility, lightning, magic darts, paralysis, polymorph, random effects, slowing, teleportation (20 in all). 14:39:51 ??wand[3 14:39:52 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory.) 14:39:57 elliptic: hark :) 14:40:03 dpeg: since I don't think that this idea will do much to stop IDing by zapping against a wall 14:40:08 blerg. Anyway, the formula is something like 15 power + 2.5 per level of Evo 14:40:09 hm, if you say so 14:40:27 elliptic: would you be willing to do in two steps? 14:40:43 elliptic: you mean iding the charges upon pickup? 14:40:47 gammafunk: no 14:40:51 We add the random charges now, see what happens. When people still indiscriminately use-id wands, we id for them. 14:40:53 gammafunk: "wand type" 14:41:05 ah right 14:41:07 gammafunk: if charges were identified on pickup then dpeg's suggestion wouldn't do anything 14:41:13 (And we should be able to resolve that before 0.16 goes into the oven.) 14:41:25 right, his is under zapping 14:41:28 elliptic: you.skill(SK_EVOCATIONS, 10) > 50 + random2(141) 14:41:40 is what determines if you ID wand charges 14:41:52 Lasty_: thanks 14:41:55 what is the 10 doing there? 14:41:57 might want to change that then 14:42:00 dpeg: 10*skill 14:42:03 thx 14:42:15 funny formula 14:42:22 So you need at leas 5.1 Evo skill to ID wands 14:42:23 ??wand power 14:42:23 i.e. currently you have no chance of identifying until your skill is 5.1 14:42:23 wand power[1/1]: 15 + 2.5 * Evocations 14:42:37 and you are guaranteed at 19.1 14:42:38 and it's guaranteed at 19.1 14:42:42 :) 14:42:57 I'd suggest changing this to a simple evo/27 chance 14:43:04 sounds good 14:43:13 Er, guaranteed at 19. Random2(0. 14:43:16 random2() 14:43:23 Lasty_: but > 14:43:27 oh right 14:43:37 man, weird indeed 14:43:40 Anybody up for coding this? Everytime I fire up a character and find a wand, I am reminded of this. 14:43:45 !lg . 14:43:46 2091. dpeg the Conjurer (L8 OpVM), shot by a centaur (arrow) on D:7 on 2014-09-24 17:20:29, with 1485 points after 7756 turns and 0:21:27. 14:43:54 !lg dpeg 2000 14:43:55 2000/2091. dpeg the Vexing (L2 NaEn), slain by a jackal on D:1 on 2014-05-19 20:38:48, with 18 points after 437 turns and 0:01:19. 14:44:02 I'm not at my development computer or I could switch the formula. 14:44:11 I'll switch the formula right now 14:44:21 many thanks 14:44:28 someone who can come up with messages can do the 1d3 thing 14:44:46 since it definitely needs some sort of indication to the player that something unusual is happening 14:44:56 Brannock: I have something at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:sif You will notice the active power part is missing. This is still brainstorming stuff. 14:45:10 (I don't know if such a message would be annoying though...) 14:45:14 so the final proposal is you id wand type on pickup, but you spend 1d3 charges on just the first zap? 14:45:20 What is the current message for shooting a wand? 14:45:21 if the charges aren't ided 14:45:29 gammafunk: well, dpeg wants to delay the first half of that, which I am fine with 14:45:44 gammafunk: id on use for now 14:45:53 do you then know how many charges are left after that zap? 14:45:56 no 14:45:57 !learn edit zap_id s/y\.\)/ Wand charges identify with a Evocations skill/27 chance./ 14:45:58 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/REGEX/REPLACE/opts 14:45:58 ok 14:46:04 we will see if it actually matters... if not (as elliptic predicts), then I am fine with id type on pick up 14:46:07 !learn edit zap_id s/y\.\)/ Wand charges identify with a Evocations skill\/27 chance./ 14:46:08 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territor Wand charges identify with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:46:19 Lasty_: editing learndb before the commit 14:46:23 good 14:46:24 this is the cockpit of revolution 14:46:32 (I'll go make the commit now instead of typing in IRC) 14:46:47 gammafunk: editing learndb is the true lever of power 14:46:53 gammafunk: not just the first zap 14:46:57 Once I change the learndb, it forces someone to make it true. 14:46:59 unless your evo is 27 14:47:02 Lasty_: next time: "elliptic will soon make it so that..." 14:47:13 fair enough 14:47:17 wow, on every zap 14:47:25 that's a pretty big wand nerf 14:47:30 given supplies of ?identify 14:47:39 ?id buff 14:47:43 gammafunk: well, ?identify is oversupplied currently 14:47:47 given that you win with like 30 now 14:47:52 gammafunk: wanna create decisions 14:47:52 !learn edit zap_id s/territor Wand/territory. Elliptic is currently making it so that wand" 14:47:53 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory. Elliptic is currently making it so that wand" charges identify with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:47:55 reminds me to increase the amount troves take 14:48:06 !learn e wheals[2] s/$/identify troves 14:48:07 wheals[2/4]: todo: fix ghost speed, tunneling worms, leeches??, remove some (??) fountain, give xtahua red drac breath (and clear out mon-abil as much as possible), mantis patches, ambient noise, refactor spell noise, make ghost crabs better :(, merge carni & sapro, vault docs, zigs, bring back plague shamblers (sorta)identify troves 14:48:11 yeah just keep in mind that early id is not super plentify; I did reduce id fairly recently 14:48:12 !learn edit zap_id s/"// 14:48:13 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory. Elliptic is currently making it so that wand charges identify with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:48:24 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:26 s/plentify/plentiful/ 14:48:33 plentification? 14:48:40 Man, I never win with 30 id scrolls 14:48:49 as they say, he who controls the learndb controls the future 14:48:50 !log 14:48:51 3226. wheals, XL27 HuAr, T:94353: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/wheals/morgue-wheals-20140923-185039.txt 14:48:54 Lasty, the compulsive identifier! 14:49:01 in a 3-rune you see, what is it 35 id scrolls in the dungeon? let me check 14:49:01 35 14:49:07 is what i _won_ with 14:49:09 Of course, I do tend to burn them on armour/weapons after I've already ID'd the vast majority of potions/scrolls 14:49:23 Lasty_: I sometimes use them on randart armour I cannot use :) 14:49:50 oh, it seems 64 are generated on-average in the 3-rune branches/portals 14:50:00 elliptic: "The wand seems to lose more than one charge." ? 14:50:12 dpeg: yeah, that too. Sometimes you just wanna know, right? 14:50:13 range of 42-88 over 100 iterations 14:50:14 gammafunk: including shops? 14:50:23 yes, including shops and all the major portal types 14:50:27 nice 14:50:29 The wand loses some of its surplus energy 14:50:42 ??objstat[2 14:50:42 objstat[2/3]: Latest statistics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing 14:50:46 and add a line to the description of semi-identified wands 14:50:58 dpeg: the spreadsheets are there if you like to look up statistics, for 3-rune and 15-rune branches 14:51:04 I don't think we have to indicate this comes from unknown charge number, because players know that with identified charges the number always goes down by one. 14:51:16 gammafunk: thanks 14:51:17 ooh, good point 14:51:38 ??objstat[3 14:51:39 objstat[3/3]: See this post for details: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12874&p=182578#p182578 14:51:40 dpeg: "You waste some of the wand's power."? 14:51:44 wow, an nrook sf fr 14:51:56 wheals: yeah, adding to the description would be good 14:52:21 maybe the wand could sometimes just explode in your face.. 14:52:33 Instant death. 14:52:36 * wheals breaks gammafunk's wand of wishing! 14:52:37 wheals: where? 14:52:45 linked on the sif muna page 14:52:50 wheals: so sad that it does nothing interesting in nethack 14:52:52 ah 14:52:59 I don't even remember what it does but I don't think it's interesting 14:53:02 should turn you into a genie 14:53:08 i think it does damage 14:53:11 breaking does 3x3 area damage 14:53:23 dpeg: maybe make it lose an extra charge every time you fail to ID it? 14:53:25 it should summon some friendly rubber chickens 14:53:26 but also to you, so it is basically pointless as a last-ditch effort 14:53:30 yeah, but some wands have special breaking effects, not wishing 14:54:04 raskol: coder's choice :) 14:54:57 Man, Evo is becoming a better skill by the moment. 14:55:06 by the moment indeed 14:55:17 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-778-g0731923: Change formula for identifying charges in a wand by zapping. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=073192390718 14:55:19 ??zap id 14:55:19 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory. Elliptic is currently making it so that wand charges identify with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:55:26 <3 14:55:37 * dpeg wonders what message elliptic used. 14:55:38 elliptic: do you want to do the learndb honors? 14:55:48 !learn edit zap_id[1] s|Elliptic.*$|Charges identify on zap with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:55:49 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory. Charges identify on zap with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:56:06 dpeg: that commit just changed the formula for when charges identify on zap 14:56:19 not anything that requires a message :P 14:56:54 !learn edit zap_id[1] s/territory/territory)/ 14:56:54 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory). Charges identify on zap with a Evocations skill/27 chance. 14:56:55 it looks to me like acquirement can't give blowguns, is this intentional? 14:57:16 possibly 14:57:27 I vaguely remember that being the case in the past too at least 14:57:46 whether it should be the case is another matter 14:57:52 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:58:01 yes i think i would rather get a blowgun than a whip or something so it seems odd to block them 14:58:15 !messages 14:58:15 No messages for TZer0. 14:58:47 -!- __Jeff has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:58:55 I mean, it isn't like artifact blowguns are very exciting 14:58:59 +9 STR and +4 AC from rings on D:2, good Op \o/ 14:59:02 Woops w/c 14:59:03 !learn edit zap_id[1] s|$|In 0.15 and prior, the chance of charge ID scaled from a 1/141 chance at at Evocations 5.1 to guaranteed ID at 19.1 Evocations. 14:59:04 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory). Charges identify on zap with a Evocations skill/27 chance.In 0.15 and prior, the chance of charge ID scaled from a 1/141 chance at at Evocations 5.1 to guaranteed ID at 19.1 Evocations. 14:59:21 !learn edit zap_id s/e.In/e. In/ 14:59:22 zap id[1/1]: Wands always id on zap now. (But if it might be a noisy wand, maybe don't fire it into unexplored territory). Charges identify on zap with a Evocations skill/27 chance. In 0.15 and prior, the chance of charge ID scaled from a 1/141 chance at at Evocations 5.1 to guaranteed ID at 19.1 Evocations. 14:59:39 !learn del 19.1 14:59:39 That's easy, 19.1 doesn't even exist! 14:59:41 good 15:00:12 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:00:39 ugh, I did a terrible job writing that. I'll fix it in ##crawl 15:01:56 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 15:04:10 elliptic: well neither is a -4 hat but acquirement is perfectly happy to give you those 15:04:36 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:04:40 exactly why that is a Good Thing is a good question 15:05:05 When the time comes, you'll thank Okawaru for that hat. 15:05:16 minmay: sure 15:05:48 Lasty_: why do you think "antique" armour shops exist 15:06:04 that sell "mysterious" artifact armour 15:06:22 Every Okawarite has to retire eventually . . . 15:06:44 ??okawaru[5 15:06:44 okawaru[5/5]: < valrus> I AM OKAWARU, GOD OF COMBAT AND FIVE DOLLARS FOR THE OSCILLATING FAN IS MY FINAL OFFER 15:07:08 oh, Okawaru gifts.... another time :) 15:07:58 if hilariously bad oka gifts ever go, I'll be so sad that new players don't get that great introduction to crawl rng 15:08:43 well okawaru gifts are one thing 15:08:45 ??skin 15:08:45 I don't have a page labeled skin in my learndb. 15:08:50 ??animal_skin 15:08:50 animal skin[1/1]: The only difference between a skin and a robe is that the skin weighs almost twice as much. 15:08:52 scrolls that you'll likely only see once per game are somewhat different 15:09:26 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09:44 Animal skin removal is another thing that is generally agreed should go? 15:10:01 er 15:10:09 s/removal // 15:10:19 gammafunk: You're content to allow berserkers to start the game in robes?! 15:10:28 oh right 15:10:29 gammafunk: I think there are some people who think the flavour is important 15:10:31 gammafunk: acquirement should always have a chance to produce garbage. God gifts, not so much imo. It is absolutely fine (and should be encouraged) for Oki to fill you vacant head slot with a mundane hat, of course. 15:10:56 (personally I don't like animal skins either but as long as monsters don't leave them when butchered I'm okay with them) 15:10:57 Berserkers already had to pay when they lost the spears. Almost as bad as the portable altar 15:11:06 -!- derGrimnebulin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:11:16 oh they were like fully caveman theme? 15:11:27 no, actual berserkers had spears 15:11:33 dpeg: well, nowadays if oka gifts you a -4 hat then it will at least be a randart one 15:11:44 yeah :) 15:11:53 How about berserkers start w/ no armour? 15:12:05 Lasty_: 0 AC is pretty annoying at start 15:12:07 bare shirt indeed 15:12:22 Lasty_: for a while in testing Op had 0 AC, not 1, and it was pretty sad 15:12:26 So annoying it makes you angry. So angry it turns you berserk! 15:12:38 fr base ac is 1 instead of 0 for players 15:12:51 (Op buff!!!) 15:13:23 Lasty_: yeah, you'd basically have to berserk half of D:1 and hope you don't starve on most species 15:13:42 elliptic: Wow, it's that nasty? 15:14:03 with so few hp, It really makes a difference at xl1 I guess 15:14:28 Lasty_: I might be exaggerating a little bit but it wouldn't be much fun 15:14:59 !lg * ktype=~starv s=species species!=dr 15:14:59 5042 games for * (ktype=~starv species!=dr): 1294x Troll, 471x Minotaur, 372x Demonspawn, 334x Deep Dwarf, 231x Human, 223x Deep Elf, 217x Hill Orc, 202x Mountain Dwarf, 179x Merfolk, 175x Centaur, 165x Ogre, 157x Spriggan, 131x High Elf, 123x Octopode, 122x Naga, 115x Gargoyle, 93x Demigod, 89x Kobold, 70x Sludge Elf, 51x Kenku, 48x Tengu, 43x Lava Orc, 36x Formicid, 26x Halfling, 19x Ghoul, 15x ... 15:15:00 I mean, Be can take a hit, but I suppose that's a pretty lame hit 15:15:12 really the issue here is that not all species can wear leather 15:15:24 since switching Be robe to leather wouldn't be a big deal 15:15:46 Removing animal skins from all non-Be generation seems good in any case 15:15:52 !lg * --Be s=species species!=dr / ktype=~starv o=-% 15:15:54 1115/276358 games for * (--Be species!=dr): 0/1x Demigod [0.00%], 0/7x Grotesk [0.00%], 0/15x Grey Elf [0.00%], 0/21x Ogre-Mage [0.00%], 0/31x Plutonian [0.00%], 0/68x Gnome [0.00%], 0/3365x Djinni [0.00%], 0/1418x Vampire [0.00%], 0/836x Ghoul [0.00%], 0/4936x Mummy [0.00%], 0/187x Hill Dwarf [0.00%], 6/8974x Felid [0.07%], 3/4068x Vine Stalker [0.07%], 3/3382x Halfling [0.09%], 30/32613x Kobold ... 15:15:57 !lg * --Be s=species species!=dr / ktype=~starv o=% 15:15:58 1115/276358 games for * (--Be species!=dr): 447/23449x Troll [1.91%], 18/3030x Naga [0.59%], 60/10872x Deep Dwarf [0.55%], 11/2245x Centaur [0.49%], 52/11580x Gargoyle [0.45%], 73/17205x Hill Orc [0.42%], 9/2416x Tengu [0.37%], 37/10682x Mountain Dwarf [0.35%], 209/64310x Minotaur [0.32%], 1/321x Sludge Elf [0.31%], 13/4652x Lava Orc [0.28%], 10/3764x Human [0.27%], 9/3410x Octopode [0.26%], 3/114... 15:16:00 start them with a hammer and an ankus 15:16:35 personally I wouldn't mind changing Be so that it starts with leather if it can wear leather and a robe if not 15:17:05 ontoclasm: dualwielded, of course 15:17:06 like, I understand people find the idea of an OgBe in a robe strange, but that's mainly what they are going to wear in the dungeon for quite a while, they should get used to it :P 15:17:29 it's pretty common to wear the first robe you see 15:17:39 and it isn't like our robes are explicitly magical robes (right?) 15:17:47 s/magical/wizard/ 15:18:04 i should draw tiles to make ogres and trolls wear robes as kilts 15:18:18 You put on your berserker robe and hat 15:18:38 the whole sleeves thing is too hard so they just tie it on and call it good 15:19:45 gammafunk: i must tell you that i am a highlevel berserker who practices many schools of physical magics 15:20:16 wouldn't be hard to rewrite that entire meme using berserker 15:20:21 trog's hand, etc. 15:21:10 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0] 15:21:30 gammafunk: anyway I imagine that if someone were to go through the work to remove animal skins that people would quickly figure out how to make the flavour work :P 15:21:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:45 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:51 they are berserkers 15:21:53 not barbarians 15:22:16 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:16 exactly 15:22:43 hmm, actually, now that i think about it 15:23:08 maybe it wouldn't be that hard to have ogre/troll doll tiles actually be larger than others? 15:23:21 not really, no 15:23:28 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:35 they can't wear anything but robes/dragon armour 15:23:42 i mean, they main thing that needs to change is body armour, and they can only wear robes and ... yes 15:24:07 small races would be harder since they can wear most things 15:24:31 well small races can wear everything a normal one can 15:24:39 except they can't wield 2h weapons because :^) 15:24:44 What about other "large" races like centaurs and naga? Wait, are centaurs large? 15:24:56 centaurs are half large, half medium 15:25:02 centaurs are huge wussies in crawl 15:25:05 crawl.txt 15:25:06 it's pretty tragic 15:25:34 but it's ok because they have the power of fast 15:25:55 well they're one of the easiest races to win with in crawl 15:26:38 well certainly 15:26:48 they're faster than the majority of crawl monsters 15:26:51 I don't think centaurs are that easy for a first win 15:26:55 once you know what you are doing, sure 15:27:11 if you don't 15:27:14 yeah, I mean if you know how to play fairly well 15:27:19 then they're piss-weak compared to more solid races 15:27:27 and they are piss-weak because they're fast 15:27:31 they still have high HP and extra melee damage 15:27:49 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:02 that's nice and all until your defenses are 10 AC/7 EV in lair. 15:28:03 ...and great apts 15:28:28 !apt Ce 15:28:28 Ce: Fighting: 0, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: 1, Bows: 3!, Xbows: 1, Throw: 3!, Armour: -3*, Dodge: -3*, Stealth: -3, Shields: -3*, UC: 0, Splcast: -3, Conj: -1, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: -1, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -1, Ice: -1, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: -2, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: -1 15:28:51 bad at magic, bad at defenses, bad at melee 15:28:56 hmm i wonder what i should go today 15:28:56 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:42 so like they should be good at literally everything, instead of only the second best race? 15:30:07 -1 is not bad at melee; even for new players I wouldn't put them in the "most difficult species" category 15:30:29 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:37 !stats CeGl 15:31:38 Starting stats for CeGl: Str 17 Int 7 Dex 9. Stat gain: sd/4 15:32:04 they're bad at melee in more than one way 15:32:09 +elliptic | and it isn't like our robes are explicitly magical robes (right?) 15:32:13 archmagi can only spawn on robes 15:32:23 read: yes? that doesn't mean that all robes are wizard robes 15:32:26 they're related thematically, at least 15:32:30 it means that all wizard robes are robes 15:33:02 clearly the solution is animal skins of rage 15:33:20 rage of how bad that scroll of acquirement was 15:33:26 i wasn't trying to imply that all robes are wizard robes, just that the thematic relation of robes-wizards is acknowledged ingame mechanically 15:33:32 (if they still could give one) 15:36:01 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:31 ackack: did you know they took salamander hide away from ogres 15:37:50 wasn't it always leather? 15:37:52 imo salamander hide should be a "t"la 15:38:09 ??salamander hide 15:38:09 salamander hide armour[1/1]: A +3 leather armour, rF++, evocable berserk. 15:38:33 I thought it used to be a skin 15:39:23 it was always leather 15:39:30 my mistake 15:40:29 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:07 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:11 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:47 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:02 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:45 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:01 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 15:55:23 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:30 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:54 -!- FatShack is now known as FShckAway 15:58:59 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:23 -!- vimpulse has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:05 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:41 hi again all! :) So I still have my idea of showing shopping lists in dump .txt files (but not in dump .lst files, and not in morgues). Where on the dokuwiki should I put it? Under "User Interface"? 16:01:34 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:35 yes 16:02:17 dpeg: OK; good. Would it make sense for me to create a subpage of "User Interface" regarding just character dumps? 16:02:41 -!- Pedroff has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:05:37 yes, would be fine 16:05:53 cool, I plan to do so. 16:06:13 Dear dpeg: dear all: does my shopping-list idea make sense? 16:09:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:28 vimpulse: printing shopping list in dumps? Sure! 16:11:35 cool :) 16:13:40 it is not ground breaking (I think few players use the shopping list), but a good idea nonetheless 16:13:55 If I were less eager, and Implementables would work, I'd make one for it. 16:14:03 -!- Amnekian has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:14:03 s/eager/lazy/ oopsie 16:14:19 dpeg: let me take a poll in ##crawl. 16:15:12 it is not *that* urgent :P 16:15:45 :) 16:15:50 I'm curious now. 16:16:09 i use the shopping list frequently 16:17:31 I don't use it that often but when I do I'm very glad it's there 16:17:45 yeah, it's great in bazaars 16:18:24 In general, it's nice that the game can remind players when they finally accumulate enough gold to buy that +2 crystal plate mail. 16:20:11 does this mean that when your game ends any unIDed stuff on your shopping list will be identified in the log? 16:20:28 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:51 Kramin: it should be listed in the form you know it (i.e. disclosed only at game end) 16:21:31 yeah 16:21:42 Kramin: why should shopping lists be shown in morgues? I was thinking only dumps. 16:22:20 so you can see what that $5000 artifact CPA was 16:22:42 although I doubt it could even get that expensive for an unIDed artifact 16:22:58 depends on how greedy the shopkeeper is 16:23:36 yeah, but that would be gozag level greediness 16:26:28 i use the shopping list a bunch 16:27:10 I use shopping list a ton 16:27:42 especially now that items are weightless and indestructible and I'm not stashing 16:28:53 basically I put anything I think I might possibly be interested in buying in the future on the list, and then if I want to see what items I have available to me I usually just need to look at two screens: shopping and inventory 16:31:11 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:04 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 16:37:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:37:23 Another idea: I think that, on Linux, Crawl should not use its built-in pager. It should use "less -r", which adds good search capabilities. You see, "less" with no options can't show colors, but "less -r" shows ANSI color control characters fine. 16:37:24 Thoughts? 16:38:47 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:38:58 <|amethyst> it should definitely not run 'less' on servers 16:38:58 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:39:24 <|amethyst> also, how would you display help, or have any other hotkeys? 16:40:52 |amethyst: how about during local console play? You could use the less advanced options to make it scroll to the manual section you want. Hotkeys A through N and 1 through 6 wouldn't work though. You'd have to press 'q' then the letter you want. 16:41:15 *Crawl could use the less advanced options to make less automatically scroll to the manual section you want. 16:43:03 <|amethyst> what would be the advantage? 16:43:10 |amethyst: "/" to search. 16:43:44 |amethyst: "less" is a great pager. Crawl's built-in pager is merely okay. 16:43:57 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:44:03 "less" has tons of features. Most of them, I have no idea how to use. But they're there. 16:44:17 <|amethyst> I could maybe see making it an option 16:44:34 <|amethyst> you couldn't depend on 'less' anyway because of Windows 16:44:45 |amethyst: Windows comes with "more", a very poor pager. 16:44:54 "more" can't even scroll backwards. 16:44:57 :) 16:45:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:12 <|amethyst> but having to use q to return to crawl before moving to a different section is kind of annoying 16:45:31 <|amethyst> and 'esc' doing nothing obvious is kind of bad 16:45:47 pagers aren't so important on Windows: Notepad or WordPad or Acrobat Reader or Internet Explorer are more often used instead. 16:46:10 vimpulse: their neglect shows on whatever poor excuse Windows has for a command line 16:46:28 |amethyst: But, on Unix, Xorg isn't always available, so superior pagers have been written. 16:46:47 <|amethyst> what about non-GNU unix systems? 16:46:51 <|amethyst> fall back to 'more'? 16:47:10 |amethyst: no. Either use "vi", or $EDITOR, or the Crawl built-in pager. 16:47:30 dpeg: well, even Windows comes with one or two better console-mode tools than "more". Such as "edit.exe". But Windows is not a console-focused OS. 16:47:30 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:31 -!- nnmap has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:47:46 <|amethyst> dumping a user into vi is kind of rude 16:47:56 |amethyst: blame the sysadmin for not installing Nano. 16:47:56 <|amethyst> you cannot assume Linux users are all Unix whizzes 16:48:10 |amethyst: this is true 16:48:25 let's integrate ed into crawl 16:48:40 |amethyst: when was the last time you used a Unix system where the only available pager was "more"? 16:48:52 |amethyst: it might be true on Android. But Android, unfortunately, is not Unix. 16:49:02 |amethyst: I'm talking about real Unix systems. 16:49:52 In usual and realistic cases, "less" is normally available. 16:50:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51:46 |amethyst: ESC doing nothing is indeed annoying. But I assume it's possible to configure "less" so that it shows a helpful status-line message such as "Press q to return to Crawl". 16:51:47 It may even be possible to rebind the "less" keys so that Escape will quit. 16:52:11 Anyway, being able to search through the manual is ultra-useful. 16:53:04 yes, but I don't think it is worth the trouble 16:53:14 dpeg: that could be. 16:53:18 ....here, we are in "lots of work for little gain" territory 16:53:24 <|amethyst> I think there should be some way to search 16:53:24 point taken. 16:53:33 unfortunately 16:53:40 dpeg: Regarding your earlier point: Page created. 16:53:57 <|amethyst> but using an external tool is kind of questionable, and on servers is a security problem 16:54:00 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:54:01 -!- Burning_LED has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:54:16 vimpulse: thx 16:54:25 dpeg: thank *you*. :) 16:54:25 |amethyst: yeah, cannot do it 16:54:59 |amethyst: If you start Less in restricted mode, well, then that's designed to take care of any security issues. 16:55:01 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:55:24 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:27 |amethyst: how about just adding a search feature to the Crawl pager? You could then press "/" to search. 16:55:46 <|amethyst> I think that would be good, and would also benefit Windows and tiles users 16:55:55 <|amethyst> (though I guess webtiles users have ctrl-f already) 16:56:18 <|amethyst> would have to move the existing '/' hotkey somewhere else, but I don't think that's a problem 16:56:55 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:17 '/' to search is pretty common in the console world. lynx, less, vi, and other tools all use it. Though Emacs uses CTRL+S, and Nano probably has some other hotkey. 16:58:37 And GUI software tends to use CTRL+F. 16:58:52 <|amethyst> is probably fine, as is ctrl-f 16:58:54 <|amethyst> err 16:58:56 <|amethyst> / is probably fine, as is ctrl-f 16:59:06 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Client Quit] 16:59:07 <|amethyst> ctrl-s is problematic because of flow control 16:59:17 ah! Good thought. 16:59:22 <|amethyst> what I meant was, ?/ already means something 16:59:38 <|amethyst> so the existing meaning of ?/ (look up descriptions) would have to move to another key 16:59:47 |amethyst: fair enough. 17:03:33 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:58 fr: dcss mode for emacs 17:04:00 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:04:50 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:27 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:53 gammafunk: Haran once said, when confronted with ideas like this: "we're coding a game, not emacs". 17:10:34 maybe we could do the opposite on April 1st, turn crawl into an emacs roguelike 17:10:41 bh is actually working on a "programming roguelike" 17:11:17 Doesn't Emacs have a nethack-mode to help play nethack? 17:13:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:59 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: rudi leeren] 17:14:31 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:51 -!- CacoS has quit [] 17:17:39 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:52 -!- AltReality has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:18:00 -!- Alter-Ego is now known as AltReality 17:19:02 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-778-g0731923 (34) 17:19:34 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:23 -!- Cannonbait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:49 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:58 http://www.nongnu.org/nethack-el/ 17:21:16 it allows customizable keys, custom colors, macros, event hooks, et cetera. 17:21:20 What happens when you combine the most advanced, self-documenting, customizable, extensible real-time display editor, Emacs, with nethack, the most elaborate role-playing environment ever invented? 17:21:31 do you move around with emacskeys 17:21:32 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:46 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:21:49 wheals: you could :) 17:22:11 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:33 OK. I've added the "allow searching through help" idea to dokuwiki. https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_ideas#allow_searching_through_help 17:22:34 I didn't decide whether it should do regular or regexp search. 17:24:27 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:40 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:58 -!- Karasu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:39 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:57 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:22 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:15 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:01 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:38:12 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:30 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:58 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:32 -!- Blazinghand|Work is now known as Blazinghand 17:39:57 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:43 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:52 |amethyst: can you ban someone from cszo? 17:41:02 "FUCKTHISSHITINGSHIT" and any alts 17:42:39 * Grunt surfaces. 17:42:52 !send dpeg ludo-archaeology 17:42:53 Sending ludo-archaeology to dpeg. 17:43:24 !send grunt depth charges 17:43:24 Sending depth charges to grunt. 17:43:24 dpeg: if ever you find yourself chatting with the old guard again, ask them about source code from the early 2.xx series :) 17:43:27 !send Patashu Depths charges 17:43:27 Sending Depths charges to Patashu. 17:43:32 bh: is this guy spouting blasphemy? 17:43:40 Grunt: yes, will do 17:43:45 The Depths charge explodes! 3 spriggan air mages and a deep troll come into view. 17:43:48 No, just some person spamming 17:44:08 Maybe notcluie discovered how to ban evade or something 17:44:10 before long, there will be a way to hide selected spectators 17:44:12 seems to have left, so 17:44:26 yeah that's been "in the works" but no one has stepped up to do it 17:44:28 sounds like hes joining games maybe 17:44:38 dpeg: he's just spamming "FUCK" into tileschat 17:44:51 bh: we have very young players :{ 17:45:10 we have a 12 year old 17:45:14 watching the game actually lol 17:45:18 well allegedl 17:45:28 I don't particularly care how old people are, the guy is an asshat 17:45:40 and I really don't want to implement /ignore 17:45:53 console reasons 17:46:04 huh? why wouldnt you want to support ignoring 17:46:04 blackhole reasons? 17:46:06 <_< 17:46:11 simmarine: laziness 17:46:11 simmarine: the implementation part 17:46:18 well, besides that 17:46:23 that's the only reason 17:46:25 okay 17:46:29 fine. I'll implement it. 17:46:32 !send bh motivation 17:46:32 Sending motivation to bh. 17:46:34 ungrateful bastards 17:46:35 well it sounded like you had something else in mind! 17:46:57 well I was thinking a nice javascript interface 17:47:10 but something with rcs I guess could work 17:47:41 ignore += FUCKTHISSHITINGSHIT 17:47:58 it's actually non-trivial even then; requires a bunch of webtiles changes, but I guess it depends on where you do the ignore and how 17:48:08 gammafunk: I'm not sure about that 17:48:13 I might be able to do it all server side 17:48:29 bh: yeah, if you toss the messages on the server, perhaps 17:48:42 gammafunk: that will only work for the player who is currently active :\ 17:48:46 right 17:48:51 otherwise you have to do with client-side js 17:48:53 better than nothing 17:49:02 can you include another player's rc? 17:49:16 well you can in your rc, yes, but what do you mean? 17:49:21 like I can do include bh.rc 17:49:22 yes 17:50:05 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:51:43 these people will make new accounts easily, is there any way to go about that? 17:52:03 -!- Big_guy has quit [] 17:52:17 hrm, yeah then you'd have to go by IP somehow 17:52:30 yes 17:52:49 |amethyst might have some suggestions there 17:54:14 -!- km__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:54 -!- km__ has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:24 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:44 gamma: where is all the RC file handling done? 17:55:50 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:35 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 17:57:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:01:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:07 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:32 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:20 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:32 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:49 -!- Pacra_ is now known as Pacra 18:08:19 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:35 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:47 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:39 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 18:16:27 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:35 <|amethyst> !lg pedroff 18:18:36 136. Pedroff the Sneak (L3 VpAs), mangled by Crazy Yiuf (a +4 quarterstaff of chaos) on D:2 (uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage) on 2014-09-24 22:13:53, with 36 points after 598 turns and 0:05:22. 18:18:39 <|amethyst> !lg pedroff s=src 18:18:39 136 games for pedroff: 136x cao 18:20:10 -!- Jho has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:27:31 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:09 -!- Akitten_Homura is now known as UncertainKitten 18:41:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: zzzzzz] 18:44:55 -!- nickajeg has quit [] 18:56:57 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:00:19 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:21 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:03:03 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:04:14 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:48 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:37 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:07 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:37 !tell gammafunk I am done with https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:sif#concept Please modify as you like. After that, we could mention the page in the forum (although I won't discuss things there). 19:11:40 dpeg: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 19:12:04 -!- FShckAway is now known as FatShack 19:17:03 Do you think it would be reasonable to have a god more focused on casting abilities and less on spell gifting 19:17:08 at some juncture 19:19:29 casting abilities meaning? 19:19:29 gammafunk: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:20:13 I assume you don't mean a fly-fishing ability 19:20:17 although that would be cool 19:21:03 No 19:21:31 Well something like "cast at increased power and increased MP" 19:21:39 or "prepared cast" 19:21:40 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:21:43 these sort of things that are on the sif page 19:22:23 i think it allows for a bit more neat stuff casting-wise than just blastin away with vehumet 19:22:35 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:47 nothing excludes such a god, of course, or such a thing as part of a god that's not explicitly tied to "casting" 19:24:06 like some kind of "god of power" 19:24:09 I don't think we want more gods that cater explicitly to casting. 19:24:27 -!- wwwwwwwwwwww has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:27 yeah I'd imagine it more on some kind of more generalist good 19:24:30 *god 19:24:42 ok i got nothing then nevermind 19:24:44 if you're talking new gods at least 19:25:00 an ability to "channel" any spell, so you can recast the next turn in the same direction/place for decreased cost 19:25:36 channeling glaciate could be mega powerful maybe 19:25:42 some kind of chei antithesis 19:26:00 gammafunk: did I miss something crucial? 19:26:08 channeling shatter would be good too 19:26:16 dpeg: sorry, you mean regarding your writeup? 19:26:20 yeah 19:26:33 I need to look it over, I'm in the middle of both patch making and spectating yermak 19:26:40 and wasting time in irc :) 19:26:43 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:05 but I will look it over by the end of tomorrow, promise :) 19:27:09 haha, just tell me if it is okay -- you are the Sif master, after all! 19:27:27 welll...sure let's just run with that title 19:27:32 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:00 !lg . god=sif won 19:28:00 2. gammafunk the Genius of the Arcane (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-10-19 22:10:40, with 24084354 points after 61517 turns and 17:44:43. 19:28:05 woah 19:28:08 I won twice? 19:28:13 oh right feck 19:28:24 !hs * feck 19:28:24 2702. Ankalagon the Sabretooth (L27 FeCK of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-05-08 15:33:35, with 13252812 points after 119319 turns and 14:35:19. 19:28:25 What the feck? 19:28:25 2.9999999999 times 19:28:31 !hs * feck -3 19:28:31 2700/2702. gammafunk the Farming Annihilator (L27 FeCK of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-07-21 23:04:53, with 7406208 points after 250008 turns and 1d+19:48:21. 19:28:37 that is so weird, me and -3 19:28:44 !hs * HE-- -3 19:28:45 181242/181244. gammafunk the Genius of the Arcane (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-10-19 22:10:40, with 24084354 points after 61517 turns and 17:44:43. 19:28:56 !lg gammafunk won 19:28:56 14. gammafunk the Devastator (L27 DgWn), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2013-10-21 15:19:02, with 1809768 points after 126440 turns and 20:37:48. 19:29:10 I have more wins on experimentals, but I speedrun a lot I'm afraid 19:29:17 cant forget the D:1 quit 19:29:18 !lg gammafunk god=sif 19:29:18 604. gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna), slain by a baby alligator (led by an alligator) on Swamp:3 on 2014-09-20 17:51:00, with 16697 points after 7886 turns and 1:05:57. 19:29:20 ??gammafunk[5 19:29:21 gammafunk[5/11]: 813. [urune=15] gammafunk the Demonologist (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:1 on 2014-02-22 20:26:26, with 941018 points after 49424 turns and 12:08:34. 19:29:29 dpeg: that's my "official" best 19:29:34 accidental? 19:29:37 no 19:29:38 no 19:29:39 lol 19:29:39 completely intentional 19:29:45 because he's a knucklehead like that 19:29:46 no, PurpleRed happened to me 19:29:56 sadly, he's a terrible virus 19:30:05 wasnt he ahead of you by like 1 turn 19:30:06 or something 19:30:09 !hs * -2 19:30:10 I understand nothing :) 19:30:10 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:12 3607455/3607456. PurpleRed the Imperceptible (L26 VSBe of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-07-21 09:27:21, with 65223715 points after 21968 turns and 11:07:28. 19:30:18 dpeg: he's the best speedrunner in crawl currently 19:30:23 ah, I see 19:30:29 also disappeared 19:30:31 almost dethroned sapher! 19:30:40 probably after the conclusion of that character 19:30:49 and realizing that 1.9k pan will never again come to pass 19:30:50 !lm purplered 19:30:51 10258. [2014-07-27 10:21:43] PurpleRed the Cleaver (L11 CeBe of Trog) left the Lair of Beasts on turn 3721. (Lair:1) 19:31:10 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:11 without a change to pan 19:31:27 that will never happen because why the hell would you do that 19:31:29 so much about luck in the end 19:31:42 Speedruns are largely luck yes 19:31:46 -!- iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:46 yeah he's incredibly good, and a nice guy too 19:31:55 certain things need to spawn and certain depths and you need to be good and lucky 19:32:01 spawn by* 19:32:44 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:33:48 developers that have a lot of wins (and players that likely contribute feedback) are really valauble since they understand all areas of the game so well 19:34:16 s/likely/likewise/ 19:35:09 well those that are generalists like Basil and not berserkers like tabstorm I guess 19:35:16 reminder that im a greaterplayer 19:35:18 :) 19:35:22 chei fanatics are out too 19:35:23 -!- bananaken has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:28 god, chei fanatics 19:35:31 out of curiosity, how many is a lot in that context? 19:35:44 i dare not speak of sif fanatics 19:35:49 those are truly the scariest 19:35:52 read: ask minmay because he has like the most ridiculously high standards 19:35:53 I know elliptic and n4243424 or whatever have 500~ wins each or something. 19:36:00 !won minmay 19:36:01 minmay has won 143 times in 3276 games (4.37%): 5xMuBe 4xDgEE 4xMuIE 3xMuEE 3xMuFE 2xDgFE 2xKeAE 2xMiCj 2xMuAE 2xMuCK 2xMuCj 2xMuFi 2xMuGl 2xMuNe 2xMuWz 2xOgBe 1xCeBe 1xDDBe 1xDDNe 1xDEBe 1xDECj 1xDEFE 1xDGAE 1xDGEE 1xDGTm 1xDGWz 1xDSCj 1xDgAM 1xDgAr 1xDgAs 1xDgCj 1xDgEn 1xDgFi 1xDgGl 1xDgHu 1xDgIE 1xDgMo 1xDgNe 1xDgSk 1xDgSu 1xDgVM 1xDgWn 1xDgWr 1xDjBe 1xDrBe 1xDrTm 1xDsAE 1xDsAM 1xDsBe 1xDsCK 1x... 19:36:07 Step it up!!! 19:36:21 !won bmfx 19:36:22 bmfx has won 362 times in 1516 games (23.88%): 2xDDEE 2xDgNe 2xDsAr 2xHEAK 2xHuFE 2xKoCj 2xKoIE 2xKoWz 2xOpWz 2xTrHe 2xVpEE 2xVpVM 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeCK 1xCeIE 1xCeMo 1xCeWn 1xDDAr 1xDDIE 1xDEAr 1xDECj 1xDEFE 1xDEFi 1xDEIE 1xDEVM 1xDgAE 1xDgAM 1xDgAr 1xDgAs 1xDgCj 1xDgEE 1xDgEn 1xDgFE 1xDgFi 1xDgGl 1xDgHu 1xDgIE 1xDgMo 1xDgSk 1xDgSu 1xDgTm 1xDgVM 1xDgWn 1xDgWr 1xDgWz 1xDjAr 1xDjAs 1xDjSk 1xDrAE 1xD... 19:36:25 dang 19:36:29 I think he kind of plowed through csdc 19:36:32 this guy is weird 19:36:44 yeah bmfx is very good 19:36:53 he has a lot of greatraces 19:36:56 !won tedronai 19:36:57 tedronai has won 40 times in 50 games (80.00%): 3xGrBe 2xDrBe 2xMfBe 2xMiBe 2xOgBe 1xCeBe 1xDDBe 1xDDFi 1xDEBe 1xDsBe 1xFeBe 1xFoBe 1xGhBe 1xGhMo 1xHEBe 1xHOAK 1xHOBe 1xHODK 1xHaBe 1xHuBe 1xKoBe 1xLOBe 1xLOFi 1xMiWn 1xMuBe 1xNaBe 1xOpBe 1xSpBe 1xTeBe 1xTrAK 1xTrBe 1xTrDK 1xVSBe 1xVpBe 19:37:08 !streak tedronai 19:37:09 Tedronai has 30 consecutive wins (HOBe, DDBe, DsBe, TrBe, TeBe, LOBe, HuBe, KoBe, MiBe, GrBe, OgBe, HaBe, MfBe, NaBe, CeBe, DrBe, VSBe, HEBe, SpBe, VpBe, FoBe, GhBe, FeBe, DEBe, OpBe, MuBe, GhMo, MiWn, TrAK, HODK), and can keep going! 19:37:33 75% of his games are streaked 19:37:33 that is insane 19:37:51 is he trying to streak all combos or something 19:37:52 who plowed through csdc 19:37:52 He said that he "forgot how to die" and I believe him 19:37:52 he doesn't even play that slowly 19:38:03 his avg win time is 7 hours 19:38:07 minmay? 19:38:13 tabstorm: duvessa basically, yeah 19:38:17 he didnt win it.. 19:38:29 well he also refused to play the playoff 19:38:33 or just didnt bother 19:38:34 yeah but I think he just didn't play the final game 19:38:44 !kw playoff 19:38:44 Keyword: playoff => char=hoar cv>0.14 god!=qaz|goz start>20140712 19:38:47 not unexpected really 19:39:48 -!- culcube is now known as phyphor 19:40:32 !lh * playoff 19:40:36 !lg * playoff 19:40:37 99. Lamisil the Charlatan (L1 HOAr), quit the game on D:1 (dpeg_arrival_connections) on 2014-09-16 02:00:21, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:07. 19:40:44 But I have defended dpeg to those that claim he doesn't play crawl! 19:40:44 nice 19:40:56 !tell bh I finally got around to checking your pdf. Marvellous! This takes so much pressure off my chest. 19:40:56 dpeg: OK, I'll let bh know. 19:41:12 what 19:41:14 I hear that claim come up on occasion 19:41:18 was that actually claimed 19:41:26 oh 19:41:27 gammafunk: who says I don't play Crawl? I play miserably, but I play :) 19:41:34 !gamesby dpeg 19:41:34 dpeg has played 2091 games, between 2006-12-15 12:29:19 and 2014-09-24 17:20:29, won 20 (1.0%), high score 1917857, total score 54782546, total turns 21533391, play-time/day 0:33:50, total time 66d+18:24:25. 19:41:41 you have a bunch of wins! 19:41:46 you don't play miserably 19:41:48 well, I am old, it happens 19:41:51 haha 19:41:57 !won dpeg !boring 19:41:57 dpeg (!boring) has won 20 times in 1885 games (1.06%): 2xDsNe 1xDDHe 1xDEIE 1xDrVM 1xDsEE 1xGEAE 1xHDGl 1xKeSt 1xMDFi 1xMDPa 1xMiMo 1xMiPr 1xNaCj 1xNaNe 1xOgFE 1xOgHu 1xOpHu 1xOpMo 1xSpAs 19:42:07 MDPa 19:42:08 if you press a bunch of keys for long enough, a win tends to materialise 19:42:10 before my time 19:42:11 all those octopodes 19:42:18 Kramin: then proceeded to remove both MD and Pa :) 19:42:37 heh 19:42:40 actually, my very first win was a HD (pre-Soup), so Hill Dwarves had to depart first 19:43:29 oh speaking of really old species 19:43:39 what was the reason for axing ogre mage as a race 19:43:51 i thought they were pretty neat when they were in nostalgia 19:44:09 After nostalgia elliptic said about the same, that some kind of giant species that's good with magic would be nice 19:44:15 what actually got axed was old ogres 19:44:18 Oh 19:44:20 ogre mages were then renamed 19:44:20 yes 19:44:24 Yeah they aren't really like anything else 19:44:30 at least as they were in nostalgia 19:44:30 tabstorm: people felt it was awkward to have both Og and OM... I then offered a "merge". (Yeah, it wasn't a merge at all, but I thought I had spotted an aptitude niche...) 19:44:32 but there's the theme to work out, and then just what would the race be besides "magic" 19:44:41 Is Makh not a starting god anymore for balance reasons? 19:44:54 read: no, for variety reasons. 19:44:58 dpeg: it would be an aptitude niche if spellcasting actually did things and they had very high int 19:44:58 Ah. 19:45:02 but if someone made a real nice giant casting species proposal, it might go somewhere 19:45:04 !apt Og 19:45:05 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -4*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: 3!, Polearms: 0, Staves: -1, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Shields: -1, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 19:45:12 instead they're just bad at casting 19:45:19 hmm 19:45:53 Every religious backgrounds detracts from subgoals (reach altar/temple, choose god). So only starting gods with a strong reason should stay. Of the current ones, I think that L,T,X are good, E,Y perhaps questionable. 19:46:21 Bloax: I don't follow, but I won't discuss. 19:46:36 !stats OgWz 19:46:37 Starting stats for OgWz: Str 11 Int 17 Dex 8. Stat gain: s/3 19:46:47 their spellcasting is only +1 19:46:55 and their school apts are all -3 19:47:07 and it's not like they have a lot of int 19:48:06 Bloax: if you have a concrete proposal to make do so. I have no time for these ambivalent complaints. 19:48:09 golems: giant magical constructs 19:48:27 for a race that can cast spells through superior spellcasting they would need an aptitude more like +4 19:48:37 which is already sounding rather absurd 19:48:48 imo the schools apts could be -2 19:49:14 I think it also depends on what people mean by "casting". 19:49:18 I think hes basically saying that sc contributes in a small way to spell success overall, so that for ogres to really be good at using spells, they would need higher apts in spell schools (but then they would be sort of overpowered) 19:49:42 so right now it just makes it easier for them to use a lot of L1-3 spells 19:50:07 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:09 barely 19:50:14 i imagine playing an ogre actually using conjurations in a large way will not be a fun experience 19:50:25 then don't do it 19:50:55 which is why i liked "ogre-mage" as a thing so that there exists a "giant race that's decent at some spell schools" 19:50:59 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 19:51:02 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:07 well, ill write a thing for it eventually 19:51:11 good! 19:51:20 another golem proposal you say? 19:51:24 another? 19:51:28 yes 19:51:32 what was the first one 19:51:38 but yeah there's no reason why a golem wouldn't work 19:51:41 search tavern somewhere 19:51:44 there have been a *few* 19:51:48 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:50 demigod=golem? 19:51:50 archaeo wrote one 19:51:55 Oh the wand gimmick thing 19:51:57 -!- doy has quit [*.net *.split] 19:52:03 i remember that now 19:52:28 yeah, basically the idea would be "bad defense, high HP, flat-ish apts in spell schools, poor weapon apts" 19:52:33 and giant 19:53:26 back then with OM & Og, we were obviously influenced by the "ogre" thing... not as free as making a new species 19:53:55 Sure 19:53:57 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12101 19:54:05 -!- dgu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:19 !seen bcadren 19:54:20 I last saw Bcadren at Wed Sep 24 22:15:49 2014 UTC (2h 38m 30s ago) joining the channel. 19:54:21 I think Og is fine as-is btw, Ogres with actual good spell school apts would be comically overpowered 19:54:24 well new species these days tend to also have some ability, rather than being a pure stat/apt tweak 19:54:48 or rather they have some intrinsic mutations at least 19:54:55 well giant 19:55:09 tabstorm: yes, perhaps Og was actually not a good place for this aptitude niche... but with OM disappearing I thought I'd try (plus it helped to distinguish Og from Tr more) 19:55:12 I think the idea was that they can't use gsc/rocks 19:55:32 i think its fine, it's more that sc doesn't do a lot than anything 19:55:36 gammafunk: yes, Og was the last time only aptitudes and standard stuff has been used 19:55:46 but maybe rocks are negotiable; I think elliptic liked them not using gsc 19:55:53 tabstorm: well, picking up cheap spells is not fully pointless 19:56:07 actually I think only a few spells above L4 are even good 19:56:09 yes, gsc seems to dominate 19:56:11 unless you have high int 19:56:18 so im not complaining :) 19:56:59 wait 19:57:02 is gsc/rocks a giant thing 19:57:12 in particular? 19:57:17 the only giant species are tr/og 19:57:22 oh.. 19:57:22 right 19:57:22 so yes 19:57:23 they're large 19:57:44 na/ce being large with none of the benefits 19:57:56 na/ce have a lower size class 19:57:59 than the class of tr/og 19:58:02 <|amethyst> and not all of the downsides 19:58:02 nagas have good defense if you live far enough 19:58:07 unlike ogres 19:58:12 well i don't know about you 19:58:18 but i personally don't like the 1 AC naga starts 19:58:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, they have the same body size, but nagas and centaurs have smaller torso size 19:58:40 ah yeah 19:58:42 hmm 19:58:46 forgot about that distinction existing 19:59:04 size 1.5, like 1.5 handed swords :) 19:59:10 well i probably dont want these dudes to wield gscs 19:59:23 give them small hands or something 19:59:38 why not just, uh 19:59:41 make them good at using shields 19:59:49 well one big question is what else do they do besides have the apts/stats you describe 20:00:05 yeah, I do need to think of what i want them to do besides be spell flinging giants 20:00:48 hmm the merged hp/magic thing was seen as too complicated when done with Dj right 20:01:29 Yeah I don't think we want to revisit that 20:01:52 nop 20:02:08 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:10 another idea that went down the drain because of over-ambition 20:02:38 well hp/magic merge is gonna be sort of complicated because of all the sources of mp regen 20:02:47 i think it works better w/ vs anyway 20:02:50 it's not regen 20:02:55 <|amethyst> hm, maybe we need to rename "gods" 20:02:56 dpeg: what did you think of essense as an idea; I can't even remember the for/against for it 20:02:57 regain 20:02:59 <|amethyst> > Please note that, for real-life religious reasons, I was advised not to "worship" an in-game "god" 20:03:01 I never played dj all that much 20:03:26 |amethyst: is this tavern? 20:03:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: reddit 20:03:33 ah 20:03:48 <|amethyst> "Happy power buddies" 20:03:57 I do like how it was phrased as "advised" 20:04:14 <|amethyst> Really hang out with Yred? E's been known to bogart the bowl. 20:04:17 My Mom suggesting to me that it would be optimal nto to worship an in-game god 20:04:51 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:10 your bunch of pixels worshipping a nonexistent god in a nonexistent world would be quite blasphemous indeed 20:05:19 well at least no one's issued a fatwa against the devteam yet 20:05:37 You say "sup" to Zin at his altar. You hi-five your new bff Zin. 20:05:52 altar? 20:05:53 link me this? 20:05:56 dang 20:06:01 his...crib 20:06:41 You knock on Zin's dojo door 20:06:52 Zin welcomes you into his Zin klan. 20:07:13 You snapchat Oka your dragon kill 20:07:17 Oka is pleased 20:07:52 !gamesby qw t 20:07:52 qw (t) has played 250 games, between 2014-08-30 14:25:50 and 2014-09-13 19:39:51, won 5 (2.0%), high score 1852552, total score 25284846, total turns 4044404, play-time/day 3:31:00, total time 2d+4:45:05. 20:07:53 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:07 gammafunk: you mean, "gods" in demigods? 20:08:12 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:08:15 as always, tolias is the superior bot 20:08:34 !gamesby gw t 20:08:35 gw (t) has played 2038 games, between 2014-08-29 20:34:51 and 2014-09-14 19:55:49, won 0, high score 179476, total score 6124634, total turns 9151513, play-time/day 7:10:27, total time 5d+1:57:47. 20:08:38 demihero 20:08:45 !gamesby qw|gw t 20:08:45 qw|gw (t) has played 2288 games, between 2014-08-29 20:34:51 and 2014-09-14 19:55:49, won 5 (0.2%), high score 1852552, total score 31409480, total turns 13195917, play-time/day 10:16:38, total time 7d+6:42:52. 20:08:48 !gamesby tolias t 20:08:48 tolias (t) has played 121 games, between 2014-08-29 20:03:09 and 2014-09-14 17:08:00, won 26 (21.5%), high score 15550351, total score 71454975, total turns 2970508, play-time/day 10:23:43, total time 7d+8:43:25. 20:09:00 dang 20:09:10 that's uh...tolias I guess 20:09:15 !gamesby tolias t0.14 20:09:16 tolias (t0.14) has played 85 games, between 2014-04-12 01:51:51 and 2014-04-27 16:50:48, won 18 (21.2%), high score 13807761, total score 42601270, total turns 2429926, play-time/day 12:33:52, total time 8d+9:01:59. 20:09:18 even better 20:09:18 gammafunk: or "gods" in general? 20:09:19 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:24 dpeg: pushed 20:09:24 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:09:25 I am against changing either. 20:09:39 dpeg: oh this isn't serious I think :p 20:09:55 Sometimes, Mom is just going to win the day and you can't play crawl 20:10:06 * Grunt pushes bh. 20:10:12 !abyss Grunt 20:10:12 bh casts a spell. Grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:10:16 bh: wonderful. Was typing a mail, but quicker to ask here: I think we should highlight the player character not with ultra thick letters, but by reverted symbols. (This can be done in verbatim.) Okay if I try it out? 20:10:24 !rip bh 20:10:28 !death Kramin 20:10:29 Death has come for Kramin... 20:10:30 !send grunt kennysheep_vaults (x27) 20:10:30 Sending kennysheep_vaults (x27) to grunt. 20:10:31 reverted symbols? Do you mean inverted? 20:10:35 gammafunk: noooooooooooo 20:10:35 yes 20:10:37 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:10:44 white on black 20:10:45 dpeg: I was thinking of making everything outside of LOS inverted 20:10:47 the true Grunt weakness 20:10:52 bh the Shield-Bearer (L1 HuFi), slain by a giant newt on D:1, with 4 points after 108 turns and 0:01:28. 20:11:14 yeah, it's a bit slow 20:11:18 bh: try it out but you'd need to convince me on that. You don't like the thicker LOS? 20:11:18 death by newt 20:11:33 dpeg: dunno, there's a lot of experimenting we can do 20:11:53 the LOS I'm generating isn't quite right, it gets trees and smoke clouds wrong, but I don't care too much 20:12:00 bh: sure! Can also make out-of-LOS less heavy (0.7 black). 20:12:16 yes, can hand-edit once the deaths are final 20:12:16 tornado might deserve some love and affection 20:12:26 oh, I was terribly confused 20:12:34 for the most part this is all scriptable. My code writes some truly horrendous LaTeX 20:12:39 until I realized you were talking about the yasd book and not crawl console changes 20:12:46 gammafunk: oh, sorry 20:12:59 bh: is there any other Latex? 20:13:00 no, serves me right for reading things not addressed to me 20:13:25 dpeg: {\color{black}.}{\color{black}#}, etc. 20:13:49 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:31 bh: yes, I know. I did this by hand :) 20:14:49 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:51 well, a little better, but it gets garish either way 20:14:51 it's worse than {\color{black}.#} 20:14:56 yes, a bit 20:14:58 unfit for human eyes 20:16:56 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:53 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:04 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:22 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:24 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:46 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:01 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:37:09 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:40 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:39:35 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:36 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44:54 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 20:46:49 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [] 20:50:06 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:00:45 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:08:27 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:28 * Grunt typesets bh!!!!!! 21:08:30 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:09:26 typeset -f bh 21:09:39 ... 21:10:12 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 21:11:03 (typeset happens to be a bash/ksh shell builtin :p ) 21:11:44 -!- hauzer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:09 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13:44 <|amethyst> alias typeset latex 21:14:35 <|amethyst> I guess the true unix way would be typeset () { troff "$@"; } 21:15:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:25 bh: phew, black on white in verbatim is much harder than I thought 21:16:41 I only get parts of the @ to show up properly. 21:16:44 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:03 dpeg: mhmm. 21:17:30 dpeg: this might be very silly, but we could also emit all the text as an image and just import it 21:17:50 true 21:18:09 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 21:18:27 I need to mull this one over... there must be a solution, it's just a really esoteric demand. 21:19:40 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:03 !learn add ru_to_do Sac Love doesn't work on Pikel's slaves 21:22:04 ru to do[6/6]: Sac Love doesn't work on Pikel's slaves 21:22:17 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:45 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: quit] 21:24:18 -!- mamgarchan has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:24:40 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:01 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:47 bh: I have something... can finally go to bed :) 21:26:00 dpeg: great, push it 21:27:32 * Grunt pushes dpeg. 21:28:55 <|amethyst> "Ooh baby baby, baby baby" 21:30:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:51 * Grunt pushes |amethyst. 21:31:58 <|amethyst> real good? 21:32:17 * Grunt gets really pushy... 21:32:29 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:52 bh: do you have it? 21:34:27 yep, it hit gitorious 21:35:01 alright, now we can invert heros 21:35:07 4.30 am, gotta go 21:36:01 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:04 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:39:15 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:40 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:03 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:07 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:45:18 ahh nice, the new gdb invocation seems to be working 21:47:40 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:52 I read that as "gw invocation" 21:48:44 gdbw, the new crawl bot that self-debugs 21:48:57 hm debugging tactics 21:49:25 <|amethyst> > bt 21:49:34 <|amethyst> You fell through a shaft on level 5 of the Dungeon. 21:52:58 -!- rob__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:11 -!- rob__ has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:24 -!- moose has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:22 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:32 -!- FatShack is now known as FShckAway 22:04:58 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:11 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:31 -!- tswett has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:39 so on windows crawl can't just fork + exec gdb and wait using the windows api... crawl has to spin like mad after launching gdb so that gdb can actually understand the call stack 22:07:09 johnny0: what the fork :( 22:07:11 can you use windowsy ways to debug crawl though? like visual c++ has a debugger, right? 22:07:46 nrook: if you compile using a ms toolchain, sure 22:08:14 i have crawl exec cdb in that case instead 22:09:07 ah, makes sense 22:09:27 what's your objective here, anyway? if you care about both toolchains I assume you aren't just a dev who is on windows and wants to debug their own crawl binary 22:11:17 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:23 better bug reports from windows users is the goal 22:11:27 stack traces :) 22:11:38 * Grunt traces johnnyzero! 22:11:45 windows users *are* the bugs! 22:11:51 ah that is a good reason 22:12:08 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:01 hrm, it seems the string class crawl uses doesn't have .back() 22:14:39 <|amethyst> std::string::back is C++11 22:14:59 sounds like the perfect reason to switch now!! 22:15:09 |amethyst: what's the easiest way of me getting this, using the length? 22:15:41 I only ask because we have lots of little string functions 22:16:02 <|amethyst> *(s.rbegin()) probably 22:16:25 ok 22:17:08 <|amethyst> s[s.length()] is probably just as good really 22:17:11 <|amethyst> but you have to write 's' twice :P 22:17:27 press s 22:18:45 <|amethyst> hm, my spam seems to have switched from 'get e-cig vapors now' to 'get cannabidol vapors now' 22:18:53 <|amethyst> not sure what they're trying to tell me 22:19:01 <|amethyst> "move to Colorado" perhaps 22:19:56 |amethyst's away message is "Reading spam." 22:20:13 <|amethyst> yeah, I should really fix the filtering 22:20:22 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:29 <|amethyst> one or another server that used to run spamassassin seems not to be anymore 22:20:35 <|amethyst> guess I'll have to run it myself 22:20:43 <|amethyst> s/ be// 22:22:19 dual-class spriggans got nerfed, have to choose between spam or spas now 22:23:26 what 22:23:26 rip[ 22:28:08 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:29:47 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:14 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:28 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:40 -!- Nstar|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:43 man, if I never have to touch tiles code again... 22:56:47 ??rip 22:56:47 rip[1/1]: tear 22:56:52 such a grunt entry 22:57:15 nonono 22:57:21 it would be ??dang if that was the case 22:57:33 or rip[1/1]: dang 22:57:46 or possibly a redirect to ??you 22:57:48 (rip) 22:58:07 ??you 22:58:07 I don't have a page labeled you in my learndb. 22:58:15 you[1/1]: die... 22:58:19 or 1/2 22:58:24 ??dang 22:58:25 I don't have a page labeled dang in my learndb. Did you mean: cang, danr. 22:58:26 you[2/2]: see {xom} 22:58:36 dang ~ cang 22:58:36 cang 22:58:42 ??clang 22:58:42 clang 22:59:31 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:59:48 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:16 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:01 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:14 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 23:12:36 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:53 !tell |amethyst japanese server admin asks http://pastie.org/9592530 ; how do our existing servers handle this? 23:12:54 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 23:13:27 -!- eb_ has quit [] 23:14:27 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:35 !tell Lasty 15:15:46 Removing animal skins from all non-Be generation seems good in any case <- this happened years ago 23:20:36 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let lasty know. 23:20:47 (for everything except oka, but that' sliterally just because it's funny) 23:21:02 (and because acq code is scary) 23:22:40 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:23:05 imo acquire better code 23:23:21 for what it's worth, it feels a little odd that hats and caps were merged, gloves and gauntlets were merged, but we still have robes and animal skins. if anything, though, I might want to merge robes into animal skins - imagine the pagan, brutal wizards, cavorting in their runed animal skins!... or we could just get rid of neither - especially since only one type generates normally, there's... 23:23:22 ...no real urgency or need for change. 23:24:08 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:34 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:45 -!- lessens has quit [] 23:26:27 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:09 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:30:03 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:30:50 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:11 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:39 ??xom 23:37:39 xom[1/8]: thinks this is hilarious! 23:38:27 what's the crawl way for stoi 23:38:55 there's something lurking around either stringutil.h or libutil.h, iirc 23:39:23 assuming you can't use stoi 23:40:05 well it does weird exception throwing stuff 23:40:09 isn't that icky? 23:42:23 I like exceptions in general but it's true that crawl doesn't really use them very often (possibly because c++ exceptions are bad, I'm not sure) 23:45:36 ok, but next time just give me an answer with only ridiculously strident and unambiguous opinions, please 23:45:45 I can't take all the equivocation 23:46:58 * Grunt throws very ugly exceptions at gammafunk. 23:47:59 sounds buggy 23:48:54 hahahaha 23:48:57 !source parse_int 23:48:58 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/libutil.cc;hb=HEAD#l259 23:49:02 this is what I was thinking of, btw 23:49:09 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:59 oh, that works, thanks 23:50:18 np 23:50:37 also, check out article_a right beneath that (and its 'hack') 23:51:35 Hooray for Hydras 23:51:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:50 "Hooray for Hydras" 23:51:54 clan name for next tourney imo 23:52:49 solid 23:53:13 hyrda tiles are the reason I have to worry about this crap 23:53:15 so 23:53:17 Boo Hydras 23:53:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:53:56 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:30 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:59:02 clearly 23:59:02 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:59:25 just make every hydra head count a separate enum (MONS_ONE_HEADED_HYDRA, MONS_TWO_HEADED_HYDRA...)