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fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:03 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:35 -!- ebering_ is now known as ebering 09:44:54 -!- giganticus has quit [] 09:47:14 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:49:35 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:58:53 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:50 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:29 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:39 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:09:55 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 10:10:46 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:10 -!- Krakhan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12:40 I was thinking about new nemelex. 10:12:48 What's in the cards for new Nemelex? 10:12:52 ... 10:12:53 !banish grunt 10:12:54 PleasingFungus casts a spell. grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 10:12:56 -!- dougsko has quit [Changing host] 10:13:25 So it has a theme of trying to buff the player, with Blade card, Potion card, whatever the forms card is. 10:13:48 This doesn't actually work very well in practice, I've found, but I'm not sure it's a bad idea *in principle.* 10:14:47 One problem with it is that the forms are mainly designed for unarmed combat, and most characters are not; if most nemelexites *were* uc chars, that'd work poorly with blade! There was a discussion a while back about boosting UC skill when the form card is drawn (temporarily), but instead... 10:15:00 ...what if we added new "goodforms" for the forms card to use? 10:15:08 Using my Form Reform code, it'd be easy :) 10:15:53 more forms that aren't UC-specific would be nice 10:15:56 in general 10:16:03 <|amethyst> Dwarf Form 10:16:40 Possibly, yeah. I have a list of ideas for transmut reform... that's a separate question, though. 10:17:39 oklob form 10:17:39 imo 10:17:40 :) 10:18:24 Specifically, brainstorming "goodforms", I was thinking 'crystal form' (gives huge resists/ac, like crystal golem), 'avatar form' (sprout an extra set of arms/tentacles to get an aux attack that's essentially your basic attack - dual wielding!!!), 'energy form' (djinnform) - in order from most to least plausible 10:18:44 !banish dual_wielding 10:18:44 Grunt casts a spell. dual_wielding is devoured by a tear in reality! 10:18:45 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:18:49 nrook suggested "giant form" (big and strong), "demon form" (spooky), and "oklob form" 10:18:51 :) 10:19:04 oklob form suggested by multiple people!!!! 10:19:08 implement it now imo!!!!!!!! 10:19:21 <|amethyst> I guess "spriggan form" already exists (bat) 10:19:25 I implemented it... five minutes ago.......... 10:19:39 s/five/thirty-&/ 10:19:39 |amethyst: well, by that reasoning, "lots of resists form" already exists (wisp) 10:19:44 feh 10:20:07 I think it is very much in the remit of "goodforms" to be "like x form, but without [most of?] the downsides" 10:20:12 so yeah "fastform" could work 10:20:39 <|amethyst> what would the benefits of giantform be? lots of damage? 10:20:44 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:49 <|amethyst> because being big is a multifaceted downside 10:20:57 yeah idk about that one 10:21:10 trampling 10:21:13 haha 10:21:15 (: 10:21:19 his suggestion was "permanent Might" 10:21:38 well, "permanent", you know 10:22:51 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 10:23:22 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:33 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:47 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:48 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 10:30:09 -!- ctair has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0/20140825202822]] 10:33:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:37:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:54 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:46:32 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:40 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 10:51:32 -!- InsideTheVoid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:32 -!- bugman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51:53 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:11 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:56:07 -!- Nabalzbhf2 is now known as Nabalzbhf 10:56:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:40 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 10:57:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:58:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:00:25 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140901091008]] 11:02:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 11:02:49 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:05:21 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:06:32 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:44 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 11:10:17 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:15:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:22 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 11:20:41 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:14 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:31 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:23 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:47 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:28 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:04 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:35 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:01 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:24 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:11 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:42 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:56 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:15 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:45 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:56 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:03:57 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:33 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:11:50 -!- its_jenna has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:13:17 Suckerboh (L21 SpEn) (Vaults:5) 12:14:02 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:14:22 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 12:17:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:58 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 12:18:18 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:40 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:45 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:17 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:48 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:32:21 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:35:06 -!- Charl__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:33 -!- ruwin has quit [] 12:40:44 -!- Lasty_1 is now known as Lasty_ 12:40:51 where are unique spawn rates set? looking for how often dissolution appears in slime 12:42:34 they aren't set directly; to know how often they actually spawn you pretty much have to run whatever that script is that generates lots and lots of levels and counts monsters 12:43:23 ah ok 12:43:56 (for levels that are usually cleared you can also get a good idea by asking sequell, but this won't work for slime) 12:44:17 I don't remember where we keep these scripts for getting stats on item/monster generation though 12:46:10 so how does dissolution get placed? his (her?) vault is define in that uniques file (forget the name) and that sets the allowed levels to spawn at, right? 12:46:40 so that vault has to compete with all other vaults that can be placed? 12:46:56 maybe this is too broad of a question 12:49:01 I don't know the details of exactly what the vault competes with for placement, but I think it is something like that 12:49:17 I guess the thing I'm thinking of is the command-line option -objstat 12:49:42 which I've never used but maybe I will try out now 12:54:12 i don't think unique vaults compete with other types of vaults 12:54:15 No other unique can place in Slime right now iirc. 12:54:20 donald! 12:54:20 And wheals is correct. 12:54:43 rupert used to be able to, but PleasingFungus changed that i think 12:54:47 I thought Donald spawning was disabled in Slime these days/ 12:54:48 ? 12:55:12 maybe 12:55:33 IMO roxanne should be allowed, she won't be hurt by the walls :) 12:55:35 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:56:15 so does that mean that it is easy to say what the chance is of disso generating on a given level in slime assuming he hasn't generated elsewhere? 12:56:21 !vault uniq_disso 12:56:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l356 12:56:58 I have no clue what the WEIGHT: 100 there actually means 12:57:48 Ten times the weight of other relevant uniques (if any)? 12:58:22 so default weight for other uniques is 10? 12:58:24 so in this case it doesn't matter? 12:58:37 but what is the probability then? 12:58:39 It might matter if there are unique dummy vaults. 12:58:48 I think there is one involved with Slime. 12:59:09 <|amethyst> weight: 200 12:59:26 <|amethyst> !vault uniq_dummy_slime 12:59:27 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l92 13:00:26 <|amethyst> but there's at least a 1/2 chance of not even trying 13:00:32 <|amethyst> !source _place_uniques 13:00:32 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc;hb=HEAD#l3746 13:01:03 <|amethyst> ah, and if only one unique is available, another 1/5 chance 13:01:19 <|amethyst> so 1/2 * 1/5 * 100/300 = 1/30 chance? 13:01:35 that sounds plausible 13:01:50 I ran objstat but I can't actually read the data because I did it for all of slime at once 13:04:23 -!- schistosomatic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:25 I haven't touched unique placement chances 13:04:26 -!- its_jenna has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:04:38 or locations 13:05:37 hm, objstat's numbers seem larger than 1/30 but I don't know how many trials it did 13:05:47 ah, 100 13:06:32 so that's per slime level? 13:06:41 so multiply by 4? 13:07:46 well, you won't get disso on slime:3 if it generated on slime:2 :) 13:08:06 and there are 5 levels 13:08:23 oh thought I saw 2- in dissolution's vault 13:08:40 so if the 1/30 thing is correct, then the chance of getting disso in slime is 1 - (29/30)^5 13:08:49 johnstein: yeah, but slime goes down to slime:6 13:08:56 doh! 13:09:02 (just to be different) 13:09:07 of course 13:10:33 16% 13:10:34 oh, I think it is actually 1/15, not 1/30 13:10:44 why? 13:10:44 because the dummy is counted, I think? 13:10:50 oh 13:10:57 so no 1/2 initial check? 13:11:05 no, so 1/2 * 2/5 * 100/300 13:11:16 I might be missing something but that is closer to what objstat was giving 13:11:34 <|amethyst> oh right 13:11:45 <|amethyst> yeah, the dummy would count there 13:11:51 that would make it around 29% chance of disso being generated in a given game 13:12:07 which seems high to me but I don't generally fully explore slime 13:12:36 where's the 5 in the denominator come from again? 13:12:47 that's a special hardcoded constant 13:13:05 <|amethyst> johnstein: B in _place_uniques 13:13:06 ahh magic 13:14:32 ah ok 13:14:33 so I guess the way this works is that there is a 1/2 * min(# vaults, 5)/5 chance at the start that has to be passed 13:14:42 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:14:45 if it is passed, then pick a random unused vault 13:14:55 if this vault is the dummy, then the process ends 13:15:04 otherwise, place that unique and go back to the beginning 13:15:04 1learn that 13:15:23 oh, I guess there is also something special once you place at least 3 uniques 13:15:34 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 13:15:38 the 1/2 changes to 1/3, then 1/4, etc 13:15:56 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:40 and of course some uniques might have been placed on prior levels 13:16:50 but for disso none of that is an issue 13:17:00 <|amethyst> I'm unsure about this message 13:17:05 <|amethyst> fprintf(ostat, "Dummy balance or no uniques left.\n"); 13:17:41 <|amethyst> oh right 13:17:42 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:50 <|amethyst> dummy -> no actual vault 13:17:56 <|amethyst> so actually returns null 13:19:12 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20:40 -!- slitherrr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:52 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:21:56 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:41 -!- slitherrr has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:28 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:10 -!- ecco_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:11 -!- Miauw has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:01:07 -!- ecco_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:39 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:39 are lava orc zombies supposed to exist? 14:07:39 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 14:12:01 dakuroot (L19 MiDK) ASSERT(!monster_at(p) || monster_at(p)->submerged() || fedhas_passthrough(monster_at(p)) || mons_is_player_shadow(monster_at(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 543 failed. (Elf:2) 14:13:11 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 14:13:12 <|amethyst> player on top of a monster, hm 14:13:33 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:54 <|amethyst> !crashlog dakuroot 14:13:54 1. dakuroot, XL19 MiDK, T:51245 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/dakuroot/crash-dakuroot-20140904-191156.txt 14:14:45 basket of spiders again 14:14:51 that's come up a few times 14:15:18 -!- rast_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:51 a monster zaps a wand at me three times and i resist every time 14:16:00 so the wand doesnt ID itself 14:16:11 then i zap it at a wall and it instantly IDs... that seems a bit weird 14:16:38 FR: monster capping wand at you should auto-ID it 14:17:03 rchandra: no 14:17:24 looked like a random spawn in crypr 14:17:27 crypt 14:17:35 rast_: I don't see a strong gameplay justification for it 14:17:49 possibly from the vault that has a ton of corpses and vampire mages, that was nearby 14:17:52 it'd encourage more x-ing of monsters, which seems bad 14:18:01 *more obssessive x-ing 14:18:03 how so? 14:18:40 <|amethyst> doy: hm, that specifically checkes p ~= dgn.point(you.pos) 14:18:43 generally telling the player what they just resisted would be good imo 14:18:51 <|amethyst> !source callback.spider_trap_stepped 14:18:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/callback.spider_trap_stepped;hb=HEAD 14:18:57 <|amethyst> err, no 14:18:57 |amethyst: yeah, i looked into it last time it came up, i didn't see anything obviously wrong 14:19:12 <|amethyst> I wonder if it's trying to place it adjacent and that's somehow failing 14:19:17 <|amethyst> or rather 14:19:21 <|amethyst> not failing, but fuzzing 14:19:28 yeah, maybe 14:19:56 <|amethyst> it does pass false for force_pos 14:20:19 <|amethyst> !source dgn_create_monster 14:20:20 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/l_dgnmon.cc;hb=HEAD#l212 14:20:22 current situation: "such and such zaps such-and-such at you. you resist". you gain nothing by x-ing now, since you know "it used a wand which you resisted". if you change it such that enemy-used wands auto-id on use, you *do * want to x them now - and it's easy to miss this sort of thing in the message log 14:20:49 this would not be the case if resist messages told you what you resisted, since it'd all be in the message log in any case 14:20:55 *this would not be a problem 14:21:18 I think I probably support de-genericizing resist messages but I'd need to think about it more to be certain 14:22:10 -!- read has quit [Quit: school aaaa] 14:22:53 PleasingFungus: i still dont understand why i would want to xv it... i know what it has now 14:23:01 or are you saying i would xv future monsters? 14:23:17 <|amethyst> doy: maybe the (!force_pos && monster_at(where) ...) check in dgn_place_monster should use actor_at() instead? 14:23:24 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:30 scenario. monster has an unknown wand. it zaps you. "you resist". 14:23:45 Current behavior: "_Ijyb zaps a wand. You resist with almost no effort." x3 .... U - an encrusted brass wand {zapped: 3} {tried by monster} 14:23:59 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:04 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think the idea was at least: "You resist. It was a wand of confusion." 14:24:16 or "ijyb zaps a wand of confusion", I suppose 14:24:27 iding as it fires 14:24:33 what I'd like: "_Ijyb zaps a wand of slowing. You resist with almost no effort." x3 .... U - a wand of slowing {zapped: 3} 14:24:34 |amethyst: that probably seems reasonable, although i haven't looked too deeply at the code 14:24:42 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:04 eh. I'm still not convinced there's a strong gameplay justification for it 14:25:15 net neutral 14:25:23 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 14:25:27 i think it's more interesting to not know what you're being zapped with 14:25:40 then why do you know what it is when you zap it at the wall? 14:25:59 <|amethyst> rast_: because it vibrates morse code to you while zapping 14:26:05 <|amethyst> rast_: and if a monster's holding it... 14:26:06 <|amethyst> :P 14:26:07 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:26:24 "magic" 14:26:38 that's an even worse explanation 14:26:41 :) 14:26:57 it is the same reason that an elephant cannot move past a bee in a corridor 14:27:05 <|amethyst> monster weapon ID is worse in inconsistency 14:27:07 also, this would hurt dpeg's plans to make wand ID more meaningful 14:27:09 <|amethyst> internal inconsistency 14:27:37 <|amethyst> you ID the brand if you see them wield or unwield it, because it starts flaming / stops glowing / whatever 14:27:44 yeah, i'd rather not make ID any less meaningful than it already is 14:27:50 PleasingFungus: then make it work consistently: wands only ID if you see an effect 14:27:52 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:54 <|amethyst> but doesn't that mean, while they're holding it, it continues to flame 14:28:01 ID has become very watered down recently 14:28:11 rast_: nooooooo 14:28:14 that was the worst 14:28:21 PleasingFungus: why? 14:28:22 i liked it 14:28:29 i like nethack too though 14:28:30 no nethack id minigames 14:28:33 no! bad! 14:28:40 PleasingFungus: what do you mean by that? 14:28:44 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:44 minigames are fun if they arent annoying 14:28:55 This is a wand of nethack. 14:28:58 <|amethyst> the problem was, you solve it by taking a tedious action (zapping at a low-MR no-threat monster) 14:29:14 so much less tedious than zapping it at a wall 14:29:22 <|amethyst> once you've solved the puzzle once (or read spoilers), it isn't that fun anymore 14:29:25 so much less tedious than engraving elbereth 14:29:37 <|amethyst> "zap at a living monster who is in-line with a wall" 14:29:38 <|amethyst> etc 14:29:38 (and maybe going blind) 14:29:50 yeah, it's true that i don't see the benefit to the current situation over just id on pickup (like books) 14:30:08 <|amethyst> doy: the theory is that you can choose to spend a zap or an id scroll 14:30:11 "all wands have one less charge in the first wand of that type you find" 14:30:12 dpeg's suggested a few times that zapping an un-ID'd wands should use up 1dsomething charges 14:30:15 <|amethyst> doy: in practice I don't think that is a choice 14:30:23 |amethyst: right 14:30:25 which would be a significantly larger cost for any wand you cared about 14:30:38 PleasingFungus: but you dont know if you care about it until you ID it 14:30:42 of course 14:30:46 so that' 14:30:47 yeah, you basically always want to spend the zap to ID it, only exception is if you have very few wands left or just acquired the wand 14:30:51 s interesting... how? 14:30:53 which is pretty marginal 14:31:04 just like you don't know whether that potion is something safe to quaff-id (confusion) or something unsave (degeneration, cure mut) 14:31:04 elliptic: or if you have a ton of ID scrolls then maybe you burn one 14:31:12 PleasingFungus: the problem I have with that is that I don't see a good way to convey it to the player 14:31:23 elliptic: that was my old objection 14:31:28 but i think that's solvable 14:31:49 and it feels sort of artificial 14:32:00 <|amethyst> FR: make the ID minigame an isomorphism of sudoku 14:32:15 <|amethyst> or one of those logic puzzles 14:32:17 the really unfun part about it is the wands you most want to not waste charges on... are the wands that are very rare anyway 14:32:18 |amethyst: sokoban, imo 14:32:32 <|amethyst> "The slimy blue potion is not adjacent to a healing potion" 14:32:32 every boulder you push into a hole IDs one item 14:32:33 "if you don't know what a wand is, you have to poke and prod at it randomly to get it to work, and that wastes charges!" 14:32:39 "since each wand works differently" 14:32:41 (obv!) 14:32:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:33:00 wizards are dicks 14:33:11 so zapping this unided wand either means i waste one of about 200 charges of confusion that i will find this game... or one of three charges of haste i will find this game. 14:33:32 rast_: well, recharging isn't *that* rare 14:33:42 yeah recharging makes it better 14:33:44 the other annoying thing is that recognized but not IDed wands have who-knows-how-many charges 14:33:59 Zannick: you actually have to spend points in evocations 14:34:00 <|amethyst> but rast is right that a low probability of a much worse than average result can lead to unfun 14:34:19 evocations? who does that? 14:34:24 14:34:29 i usually put about 5 points in 14:34:30 <|amethyst> then again one charge isn't *that* much worse than average 14:34:45 (im not considered a good player) 14:34:46 <|amethyst> s/charge/good charge/ 14:34:53 well, we're talking about dpeg's 1dwhatever on zapping an un-id'd wand 14:34:58 alternately, it could be a fixed value 14:34:59 we are? 14:35:05 oh 14:35:07 I misread 14:35:08 yeah, 1dwhatever just makes things worse 14:35:09 a fixed value, like 1. 14:35:20 I was 14:35:44 rast_: yes, it makes it more likely that you'll decide to use ?id, or wait until you have ?id to id that wand. 14:35:53 anyway I don't really feel like it is that worthwhile to balance ?identifying wands versus zapping unided wands 14:35:56 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:59 we have many more interesting things to balance :P 14:36:15 I don't think balancing that makes it more difficult to balance other things! 14:36:21 it is not a competition :) 14:36:46 yes, but does it actually improve the game if players are worrying over whether or not to use ID scrolls on wands because 1dwhatever is large or not? 14:36:51 PleasingFungus: so early on you cant afford to spend ?ID and the wand is almost certainly something you dont mind wasting charges on.... except 1% of the time its haste or heal wounds 14:37:13 and later on you just burn the scroll since you have a ton and 2/4 unided wands are important ones anyway 14:37:21 rast_: then you're lucky! you got an early wand of haste or heal wounds 14:37:21 elliptic: yeah, I'd be fine with making it a fixed value, like 3 14:37:23 (: 14:37:36 doy: one with now zero charges 14:37:38 I'm not sure the 1d adds anything; you already have the randomness of wand type & the randomness of the # of charges currently in the wand 14:37:47 rast_: again, recharging isn't that rare 14:37:49 players have a lot of decisions to make in crawl and most of them are more fun than whether or not to identify wands or zap them at empty air 14:37:55 early on it kinda is 14:38:00 PleasingFungus: I don't really care at all about 1dwhatever versus 3 14:38:11 in any case, i agree that zapping wands against a wall is dumb 14:38:52 making IDing wands meaningful is going to lead to players panic-zapping un-ided wands, like they currently panic-quaff or panic-read-scrolls 14:38:56 before the wand id change, the only one you needed to zap at a non monster was digging right? 14:39:00 PleasingFungus: no it isn't 14:39:11 sometimes players already do that, but I don't see how that would make it happen a ton more 14:39:24 PleasingFungus: the difference between zap-IDing a wand at a monster and zap-IDing it at the wall 1000 turns earlier is still just 1 charge 14:39:46 so how about going back to the old way where you need to zap it at monster/self to ID without scroll, but zapping digging always IDs it regardless of target 14:39:53 elliptic: I don't understand that at all - can you rephrase? 14:40:02 rast_: what on earth would that help? 14:40:10 rast_: yeah, but clever people zapped it at a monster next to a wall such that digging could still be IDed 14:40:22 Zannick: right but that was spoily and silly 14:40:34 no doubt 14:40:51 PleasingFungus: as things currently stand, there is precisely one reason to zap-ID a wand at a wall rather than waiting and using it on a monster: because you value knowing what the wand is more than having one charge used against an actual monster 14:40:55 PleasingFungus: because zapping unided wands at a monster is less dumb than zapping them at a wall 14:41:10 PleasingFungus: making zapping an un-IDed wand cost multiple charges doesn't change this at all 14:41:20 elliptic: also because you don't want to randomly or invis a monster 14:41:29 *randomly haste or invis 14:41:30 *haste 14:41:35 :) 14:41:53 rast_: actually, it's dramatically more dumb, for the reasons that |amethyst explained earlier. 14:41:57 PleasingFungus: sure. the point is that changing the cost of zapping an unIDed wand isn't going to affect the decision of whether to zap it in combat 14:41:58 Please stop trying to design by "feel". 14:42:01 fr: wand of haste invis 14:42:05 PleasingFungus: since it is unIDed either way 14:42:11 i would also vote for combinbing disintegration and digging wands, now that disint vs statues has been nerfed 14:42:28 disint does seem sort of pointless yeah 14:42:29 noooo 14:42:30 disintegration is fun 14:42:34 it makes monsters explode 14:42:40 PleasingFungus: you have OOD for that 14:42:41 PleasingFungus: i said "combine" 14:42:42 IMO wand of OOD 14:42:42 seriously? how do you deal with ocs now? 14:42:46 almost all characters don't have ood! 14:42:48 (serious suggestion) 14:42:48 elliptic: wand of destruction 14:42:49 <|amethyst> remove digging wand instead 14:42:50 fr replace wand of oo- damnit 14:42:53 Zannick: hit them a lot until they die 14:42:55 or walk away 14:42:56 elliptic: high power generates a burst 14:43:01 orange crystal statue (048) | Spd: 6 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 20/1 | 11non-living | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 150 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 14:43:01 %0.14?orange crystal statue 14:43:05 orange crystal statue (048) | Spd: 6 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | 11non-living, evil, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 412 | Sp: brain feed, drain magic, mass confusion | Sz: Large | Int: high. 14:43:05 %??orange crystal statue 14:43:07 hit them a lot until you die 14:43:09 compare hp 14:43:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:43:16 I feel like wand of iood could lead to both interesting gameplay and excellent tv 14:43:35 compare xp lol 14:43:35 wand of iood would be both rarer and have fewer charges than disint of course 14:44:18 elliptic: Changing the cost of zap-IDing a wand will change whether people are more likely to zap a wand against a wall, or wait to find ID to use that instead. 14:44:55 PleasingFungus: sure, it matters if they are actually going to wait to find an ID scroll... I think this is highly unlikely though 14:44:58 (so that they have more charges to use - essentially turning ?id into ?recharge, which is rpetty good) 14:45:19 i still think that having the optimal action at any point to be zapping a non-digging wand against a wall is weird 14:45:20 if people don't currently have any ID scrolls, they are short on ID and will have other stuff to do with the scrolls when they find them 14:45:22 This means that, in panicy situations, they're more likely to have un-IDed wands which they might end up zapping in panic... 14:45:45 so they are less likely to save wands until they find ID scrolls in that case 14:45:57 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:05 I feel like we're really not communicating very well 14:46:06 they might use ID scrolls they already possess on the wand, but that's it 14:46:14 there's something really disfunctional about how we talk 14:46:15 I don't understand it 14:46:20 but every single conversation turns into an argument 14:46:29 and neither of us can get through to the other 14:46:37 PleasingFungus: well I'm pretty sure I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense to me... I just think you are oversimplifying the issue 14:46:48 elliptic: would you scroll-ID wands if zap-IDing wands instantly emptied them? 14:47:11 yes 14:47:51 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:57 ok. 14:47:59 I am going to lunch. 14:48:08 I think vampiric is too good 14:48:10 I will return with higher blood sugar and more enthusiasm for design arguments. 14:48:19 hopefully lightli will not suck my blood. 14:48:24 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140808030201]] 14:48:27 let me put it this way 14:48:40 I found the Sword of Jihad and immediately dismissed it as uselss 14:48:43 *useless 14:52:03 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:58 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:59:09 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:56 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:10:27 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0/20140825202822]] 15:10:47 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 15:11:11 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:17 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:38 ok 15:16:40 !log . tv 15:16:40 18. darkli, XL25 HOBe, T:52799: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20140904-200300.txt 15:16:50 !log . -tv 15:16:50 2742. darkli, XL25 HOBe, T:52799 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 15:16:54 !lg . -tv 15:16:54 2742. darkli, XL25 HOBe, T:52799 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 15:16:58 ??tv 15:16:58 tv[1/2]: An array of television channels are available by telnetting to termcast.develz.org, broadcasting recordings of (parts of) Crawl games, both user-controlled and automated. See also {footv}, {fightclub}, or !tvdef channelname for other channels. 15:17:00 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:17:32 corr (-45) 15:17:36 I think rCorr got nerfed way too much 15:17:43 nah. 15:17:52 !nuke 15:17:53 FooTV playlist clear requested by PleasingFungus. 15:18:01 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:01 !lg lightli 15:18:01 2742. darkli the Executioner (L25 HOBe of Trog), demolished by a death ooze (created by the royal jelly) on Slime:6 (slime_pit) on 2014-09-04 20:03:00, with 552735 points after 52799 turns and 1:52:00. 15:18:08 -!- Cannonbait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:13 !lg lightli x=status 15:18:14 2742. [status=about to teleport,corroded equipment,heavily drained,very slightly contaminated] darkli the Executioner (L25 HOBe of Trog), demolished by a death ooze (created by the royal jelly) on Slime:6 (slime_pit) on 2014-09-04 20:03:00, with 552735 points after 52799 turns and 1:52:00. 15:18:21 hm. trying to remember where that shows up 15:18:23 eh 15:18:43 in previous versions I would have pulled that off just fine 15:18:59 oh no, corrosion was made more dangerous 15:19:01 how terrible 15:19:03 anyway, one of the proposed 0.16 change is reducing the chance for further corrosion based on the amount of corrosion you currently have. 15:19:10 Quaffing unknown !invis while lit by a halo does not ID the potion 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8921 by magicpoints 15:19:10 oh 15:19:19 please implement that 15:19:56 sure. 15:20:29 chance of being corroded: (0.9 15:20:33 )^N 15:20:53 so each stack gives you a 10% chance to resist further stacks 15:20:57 using floats? you monster. 15:21:03 :p 15:21:24 <3 15:21:56 !lg ontoclasm t 15:21:57 21. ontoclasm the Vexing (L1 FoAM), slain by a jackal on D:1 (shiori_angband_town) on 2014-09-04 01:02:30, with 2 points after 128 turns and 0:00:47. 15:22:02 rip 15:22:37 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:53 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:09 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:26 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:26:49 FoAM is really hard :C 15:27:05 ontoclasm: no, it tends to be really soft. 15:27:06 are you FoAMing mad about it yet 15:27:09 even fluffy. 15:27:10 yes 15:29:22 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:32 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel 15:29:47 so my 0.16 project is to redo all the player doll bodies 15:29:48 :C 15:30:10 s/all/most of/ 15:30:25 just in time for me to add a dozen more player races....!!! 15:31:07 needs more chrome imo 15:31:17 and more SHADOW$$$$ 15:32:17 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:01 -!- Reverie is now known as Reverie|Away 15:41:11 there will not be a lot of chrome sorry 15:41:18 shadows maybe 15:41:54 skin does not have a lot of specularity 15:42:41 sounds like we need more robots 15:43:34 -!- coni has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:43:49 gw-clones activated? 15:44:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:17 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-327-gbff0e38: Tone down another crazy fruit vault (rchandra). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bff0e3859859 15:45:38 FRUIT VAULT 15:45:40 contains FRUIT 15:47:04 -!- Reverie|Away has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:47:29 bring back rogue's gallery, but with famous crawl bots 15:47:42 <3 15:47:50 speaking of grunt vaults >:( 15:47:57 qw the Skullcrusher (legendary GrBe) comes into view. 15:48:12 gw the Cleaver (mighty DDFi) comes into view. 15:48:13 s/Skullcrusher/Axe Maniac/ 15:48:17 wheals: er 15:48:19 wheals: yes 15:48:21 :( 15:48:58 to be clear, what i meant by "speaking of grunt vaults" was not about rogue's gallery, but that i was talking about RG and your silly fruit vault 15:49:05 and then went downstairs into profane halls 15:49:33 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:41 1learn add profane_halls The "profane" refers to the usual player response when entering the vault. 15:49:51 (No, it doesn't. But it might as well!) 15:50:24 03wheals02 07[stone_soup-0.15] * 0.15.0-15-gbb9a91d: Tone down another crazy fruit vault (rchandra). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb9a91d8b9bf 15:50:28 wheals: i -just- got that vault 15:50:34 like, i'm standing in it right now 15:50:41 fr: milestones for encompass vaults, so we can finally know how much killingness profane halls does have 15:52:59 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:53 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:42 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:55:43 red deep troll 15:55:51 and another 15:55:59 and another 15:59:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:16 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:04:50 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:14 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:35 -!- Reverie has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:24 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 16:08:43 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:12 hmm, i think i've got a tomb:2 here that doens't provide any way into the greater mummy gauntlet in tomb 1 16:09:30 !tell wheals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 16:09:30 Grunt: OK, I'll let wheals know. 16:09:52 both of the stairs up go into the same room, which is the one i first came into W:2 from 16:10:27 good thing i have five wands of teleportation! 16:11:07 Scroll of Enchant Weapon sees un-IDed rods as targets 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8922 by tedric 16:11:54 the scroll of enchant weapon can uncurse the rod, right? 16:11:54 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:11:57 !messages 16:11:57 (1/1) Grunt said (2m 27s ago): !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 16:13:10 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_lunch 16:15:49 -!- raskol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:53 is there someone around who can make a backup of this save for diagnosing the bug? i've got a guy sitting around in tomb, but of course i'd like to keep playing him, too: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8899 16:18:16 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:26 -!- coni has quit [Client Quit] 16:20:13 you can do it yourself 16:20:28 ??backup 16:20:28 backup[1/1]: To backup your save: 1. ssh/telnet into the server in question and login; 2. select the relevant version; 3. pick (A)dvanced Options; 4. choose (B)ackup your save-game 16:21:29 -!- Gachiko has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:23:51 wheals: oh, neat. thanks 16:24:00 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:57 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:33 -!- rast_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:34:08 -!- GeorgieFruit has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:08 wheals: you know 16:44:16 there's a very simple solution to all of these "wrong color monster" bugs. 16:44:54 o my god, you're right 16:45:09 i never thought you'd suggest removing colour, but it's true 16:45:15 oh. I was just going to suggest removing console 16:45:18 but that works too 16:45:22 :) 16:45:36 !send PleasingFungus an unimplemented tile 16:45:36 Sending an unimplemented tile to PleasingFungus. 16:45:44 !send wheals a spooky ghost 16:45:44 Sending a spooky ghost to wheals. 16:46:32 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:56 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:18 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:46 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:06 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:52:57 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:12 -!- Reverie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:13 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:36 -!- amalloy_lunch is now known as amalloy 16:55:48 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:56:57 -!- Hisar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:22 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 17:03:20 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:29 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-327-gbff0e38 (34) 17:06:00 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 17:06:21 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:21 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:56 -!- Evablue has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:41 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:22:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:39 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:50 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:20 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 17:32:32 -!- GeorgieFruit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:33:12 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:23 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:35:58 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:42 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:40:36 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:46:36 -!- ofna01 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:43 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:45 -!- warpedscruffy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:23 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:51 -!- coalcurator has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:03:37 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 18:04:01 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:52 -!- Vidiny has quit [] 18:08:00 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:08:52 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:18 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:14:06 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:56 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 18:15:59 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:23 -!- Evablue has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:12 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten.] 18:29:10 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:52 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:51 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:57 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:49 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:42 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 18:37:35 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:05 -!- Cryp71c__ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:40:08 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:50 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:46 im getting an effect where I cast EH on something, and it falls asleep and then wakes up immediately 18:42:58 and then is unaffected(naturally) by future casts 18:43:07 ive never seen it before, any idea what could be happening? 18:43:10 (this is on 0.15) 18:43:50 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:37 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: on y dort] 18:45:59 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:36 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:49 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:01:13 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 19:01:35 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:25 -!- Flun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:03:27 -!- rkd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:03 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:06 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:02 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:17:25 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140808030201]] 19:17:42 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:24:26 -!- uglyjohn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:25:07 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:29 -!- MakMorn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:26 johlstei__: that can happen if another monster does something to awake the first monster immediately after you cast EH, e.g. you cast EH on an orc and then an orc knight does its battle cry thing 19:28:42 nope its happening on lone monsters 19:28:44 seems kind of random 19:28:49 most monsters are fine but some just wake up 19:28:51 if that wasn't the case, it is a bug (and one that existed at times in the past, though I haven't seen it recently) 19:29:21 !locate johlstei 19:29:21 johlstei was last seen on CBRO (johlstei, L11 SpEn of Ashenzari). 19:29:25 just happened on a wolf I think 19:29:53 didn't happen earlier in the week which is weird 19:29:56 its just this character 19:31:21 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:36:24 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:32 Is there a page on the wiki or something which describes the design goals of rings? I know it's been stated that rings being tactical choices has been thrown around, but other than that I'm not really sure. 19:41:37 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:14 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:34 -!- Atomikkrab has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:00 -!- ofna01 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:27 -!- cribo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:58:33 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:58:50 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 19:59:11 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06:23 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:11 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:30 -!- Tungsten has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:23:57 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:24:31 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:44 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 20:27:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:53 -!- Amy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:48 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 20:56:45 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:45 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:59:00 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:08 -!- Kramin has left ##crawl-dev 21:01:47 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:25 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:58 -!- ofna01 has quit [Quit: ofna01] 21:07:09 !cmd .gfdevkills !lg @devteam (( kmap=~gammafunk kmap!~overflow || ikiller=asterion || ikiller=octopode_crusher )) s=name,ckiller,kmap 21:07:11 Defined command: .gfdevkills => !lg @devteam (( kmap=~gammafunk kmap!~overflow || ikiller=asterion || ikiller=octopode_crusher )) s=name,ckiller,kmap 21:07:40 heh 21:08:09 mmm 21:08:26 i don't have a devkill but i do have at least one confirmed player kill 21:08:32 gammafunk: Are you going to run that command? :D 21:08:41 reaverb: you think I haven't already? 21:08:48 Ah. 21:08:59 you have to define commands in ##crawl or ##crawl-dev 21:09:20 (or ##crawl-sequell) 21:09:27 hrm 21:09:31 that's kind of cheating sort of 21:09:48 <|amethyst> !lg @devteam ikiller=orb_spider s=name 21:09:49 6 games for @devteam (ikiller=orb_spider): 3x Neil, ontoclasm, erisdiscordia, SGrunt 21:10:03 <|amethyst> my own petard 21:10:07 :( 21:10:07 haha 21:10:13 niiice 21:11:44 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:22 uhhh 21:12:30 !source melee-attack.h:16 21:12:30 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee-attack.h;hb=HEAD#l16 21:12:32 oh kmap!~overflow isn't actually necessary 21:12:39 !source melee_attack.h:16 21:12:39 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.h;hb=HEAD#l16 21:12:47 this is the shadiest comment of all time 21:12:56 gives me 404 21:13:01 second link works 21:13:05 sorry 21:13:33 ...weird 21:13:36 Yeah I have no idea what that comment means, could probably be git blamed. 21:13:44 no, I think I see what it's doing here 21:13:52 !source player_aux_unarmed 21:13:53 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l1219 21:14:19 it *looks* like only one aux attack can successfully trigger on a given attack? 21:14:34 aren'twell don't you want the inner function 21:14:42 !function player_aux_choose_uc_attack 21:14:43 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l997 21:14:56 ah 21:14:57 ok 21:15:05 I do not want the inner function, in fact 21:15:06 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:06 -!- tcjsavannah_ is now known as tcjsavannah 21:15:13 Yeah, it looks like that's correct. 21:15:36 wait 21:15:43 that's 21:15:48 the wrong function 21:15:50 or something 21:15:54 ? 21:15:59 yeah 21:16:01 But at the very least the comment should be changed to referaance that, ideally the code would be changed so that enum orders don't have meaning like that. 21:16:02 silly sequell 21:16:07 it found the function name 21:16:13 in the other function's comments :( 21:16:21 Bad pronoun when breaking fear on uniques 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8923 by magicpoints 21:16:21 bad sequell 21:16:23 niice 21:16:29 PleasingFungus> it *looks* like only one aux attack can successfully trigger on a given attack? 21:16:35 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:36 anyway, it doesn't realy matter what player_aux_choose_uc_attack does 21:16:40 this isn't true, or at least if it is then something is majorly messed up 21:16:47 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:16:52 aux attacks are supposed to be independent of each other 21:16:57 look at line 1278-1279 21:16:59 *lines 21:17:15 hm 21:17:18 what does that function return 21:17:22 but constrict attack code is very hacky yes 21:17:36 oh, I see 21:17:38 unarmed_attack_type 21:17:41 that's dumb 21:17:49 ??dumb 21:17:49 dumb ~ dump[1/1]: Press # in game, then just type &dump on ##crawl (experimental, should work with all the servers). 21:17:53 ah dang 21:17:56 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0/20140825202822]] 21:18:00 ?/that's dumb 21:18:01 ?/dumb 21:18:01 Matching entries (1): gammafunk[6]: <|amethyst> that's dumb 21:18:01 Matching terms (1): dumb_robins; entries (8): eronarn[11] | gammafunk[6] | killer_bee[10] | monster_intelligence[9] | mutation_roulette[1] | not_desperate_enough[14] | procodile[1] | racism[9] 21:18:07 no, okay, that just bails out early if the defender dies in the actual attack 21:18:13 1learn add dumb see {bad_code} 21:18:15 ...in a needlessly obtuse fashion 21:18:15 !learn add dumb see {gammafunk[6]} 21:18:16 dumb[1/1]: see {gammafunk[6]} 21:18:17 <_< 21:18:19 dang!!! 21:18:24 oh I see 21:18:26 still 21:18:38 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:18:55 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:02 ??dang 21:19:02 I don't have a page labeled dang in my learndb. Did you mean: cang, danr. 21:19:05 hm 21:19:07 anyway, aux attacks are applied in enum order, which is a little silly but probably harmless. 21:19:31 also, code is hard. 21:19:33 !send PleasingFungus harm 21:19:34 Sending harm to PleasingFungus. 21:19:39 tweet it 21:19:59 PleasingFungus Barbie says: "Code is hard!" 21:20:00 is it funny? 21:20:24 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:55 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:29 huh, antimagic bite doesn't drain mp from summoned monsters 21:22:30 didn't know that 21:23:11 oh that is weird 21:23:16 er 21:23:18 drain mp 21:23:21 what do you mean by that 21:23:25 just anti-magic effect? 21:23:32 no 21:23:35 oh you mean you don't get mp as the player 21:23:37 the "you feel invigorated" effect 21:23:38 yes 21:23:39 right 21:23:43 hrm, yeah 21:23:48 I can see why 21:24:01 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:02 is vamp similar wrt healing? 21:24:03 <|amethyst> likewise vampiric draining 21:24:05 I'd imagine so 21:24:05 <|amethyst> yes 21:24:10 yeah, does make sense 21:24:17 for one, you could make summons 21:24:22 ya 21:24:24 and just drain them 21:24:27 <|amethyst> In what ended up being my first (offline) win, I was a DD and running low on healing 21:24:40 <|amethyst> I tried using a box of beasts to make HP snacks 21:25:31 <|amethyst> was disappointed, but ultimately happy, that it didn't work 21:25:47 <|amethyst> "oh, I guess summons never give any benefits from kills" 21:25:55 <|amethyst> s/from kills/ 21:26:05 as gammafunk should well know :) 21:26:12 !lg gammafunk t / won 21:26:12 0/209 games for gammafunk (t): N=0/209 (0.00%) 21:26:33 !lg . t s=ktype 21:26:33 209 games for gammafunk (t): 105x quitting, 67x mon, 30x beam, 6x pois, acid 21:26:41 !lg gammafunk t ktyp=acid 21:26:42 1. gammafunk the Caller (L2 HESu), splashed by a jelly's acid on D:3 on 2014-09-03 23:23:17, with 27 points after 999 turns and 0:04:35. 21:26:44 ouch 21:26:49 that was a wierd one 21:27:07 yeah, xl 2 on d:3? 21:27:34 well he walked into los and hit me and it did acid damage in one turn 21:27:34 -!- buki has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:56 good points though 21:28:14 also good turns 21:28:27 wow, 1k on d:2 21:28:29 that'd be a quit anyhow 21:28:34 oh not d:2 21:28:37 xl2 21:28:38 gammafunk, what is the best summoner race 21:28:42 counsel me 21:28:45 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:47 uh, well how would you like to play one 21:28:54 optimally, as a more melee-hybrid type? 21:28:56 !lg gammafunk sk=summoning s=char 21:28:57 687 games for gammafunk (sk=summoning): 425x HESu, 143x HEIE, 72x DESu, 27x DEIE, 9x OpSu, 4x VSIE, 3x FeCK, 2x VSSu, FeSu, NaIE 21:29:02 I play pure summoners 21:29:02 <_< 21:29:08 which isn't optimal for just winning 21:29:11 ogsu best su 21:29:17 does gourmand do anything for felids, or is it not being marked useless a bug? 21:29:19 ogsu is solid, yeah 21:29:35 idk 21:29:38 opfi of chei was my character with a summoning win 21:29:53 I kind of want to do something different after the last few days' relentless splatting. this probably isn't -dev chat, tho 21:30:31 (newdev team in 27th place) 21:30:37 PleasingFungus: get to work on pw imo 21:30:43 hm 21:30:59 more interested in scripting up that clua shop code we were talking about 21:32:11 Hmm, what is this clua shop code? 21:32:17 well, it doesn't exist at present 21:32:20 which means bots can't shop 21:32:29 and rcfiles can't mess with adding stuff to shopping lists and autobuying and so on 21:32:31 not easily, anyway 21:32:52 Ah, just making the interface easier for bots? That makes sense. 21:33:03 what exactly would we want the interface to look like? something like "list shop items" (for a specific shop, or for all known shops with location associated?). then 'buy thing', 'add thing to shopping list', 'list shopping list', 'remove from shopping list'? 21:33:05 does shopping take turns? 21:33:14 I honestly do not remember 21:33:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:05 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-328-gfd822c7: Correct a pronoun (#8923) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd822c750cfb 21:34:06 03|amethyst02 07[stone_soup-0.15] * 0.15.0-16-gce31824: Correct a pronoun (#8923) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce31824f4de3 21:34:08 because if it does, making it no longer possible to look at inventory within shops is bad 21:34:18 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:20 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:25 ...? 21:34:41 <|amethyst> it only takes a turn if you did something (not counting shopping list) 21:34:42 |amethyst: Ha, just about to handle that. I'll close the ticket if you want. 21:34:50 <|amethyst> reaverb: sure thing :) 21:34:52 ah, thanks |amethyst 21:35:05 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:35:13 still not ideal but ok 21:35:17 hm 21:35:20 it looks like it takes no turns 21:35:22 <|amethyst> I don't really like losing the ability to do inventory or known-items 21:35:33 oh 21:35:39 <|amethyst> you can leave an re-enter, but it's a pain 21:35:54 <|amethyst> something I often want to do is buy all the unided scrolls/potions that I don't already have one of 21:35:54 behaviour when there are multiple copies of something is also weird but I don't know what the ideal behaviour is 21:35:56 it takes no turns if you have a full inventory 21:36:01 <|amethyst> this used to be a lot easier than it once was 21:36:07 also I have no idea what you and rchandra are talking about 21:39:00 in a shop, it used to be possible to see your own inventory and known items lists 21:39:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh wow 21:39:01 this is information you often want when shopping 21:39:01 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:39:59 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:40:10 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:04 oh. huh. the flat hit point loss for olddraining *only* occurred when it dropped their max hp to less than their current hp. 21:44:06 I'd misread it. 21:45:44 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:07 I... guess that actually occurred before the damage for the base attack, if I'm reading this right, so... it could be relevant? does make me reluctant to just replace it with flat damage, as I was planning. 21:46:14 seems like that'd be a lot stronger than the old effect? 21:50:22 -!- HoneyLoc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:14 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:08 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 21:54:24 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:49 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:58:07 -!- HoneyLoc_ has quit [] 22:09:42 PleasingFungus, here's a gw fr: a Lua way to check for statuses in general 22:10:50 ...and another is a Lua way to get the speed adjectives displayed in xv for monsters 22:13:04 (especially relative to the player) 22:13:25 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:22 -!- Amy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:20:05 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:25:29 -!- bh is now known as Guest55940 22:25:46 -!- Guest55940 has quit [Changing host] 22:26:12 -!- Guest55940 is now known as bh 22:28:11 !gamesby gw 22:28:11 gw has played 899 games, between 2014-05-28 04:59:00 and 2014-09-05 03:18:55, won 0, high score 105049, total score 818524, total turns 2929119, play-time/day 0:16:46, total time 1d+4:13:46. 22:28:19 !lg gw max=xl 22:28:19 899. gw the Bludgeoner (L15 MiBe of Trog), slain by a spiny frog on Swamp:1 on 2014-09-02 00:41:26, with 87178 points after 38209 turns and 0:23:19. 22:28:36 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:46 !lg gw max=score 22:28:47 PleasingFungus: oh, heh, actually the flat hit point loss for olddraining is still present... 22:28:47 900. gw the Severer (L15 DDFi of Makhleb), blasted by Asterion (bolt of lightning) on Snake:4 on 2014-09-04 17:37:22, with 105049 points after 26288 turns and 0:21:09. 22:29:03 PleasingFungus: monster.cc:4262 22:29:12 !lg gw max=urune x=urune 22:29:12 900. [urune=0] gw the Cudgeler (L1 OgBe of Trog), slain by a goblin (a +0,+0 dagger) on D:1 on 2014-05-28 04:59:08, with 2 points after 107 turns and 0:00:08. 22:29:18 rip 22:29:33 PleasingFungus: so no need to do anything 22:29:37 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:42 -!- Flun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:42 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:42 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:42 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:42 PleasingFungus: I was confused because I knew the thing you were saying about olddraining was false, so... 22:32:42 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:56 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:56 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 22:33:56 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup tournament online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions, http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.15/ for the tournament. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 22:34:05 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 22:36:22 the other day I assumed that the flat damage part was removed because it is no longer mentioned in learndb and I misread your commit (which just removed the mhp part of it) 22:36:27 ??draining brand 22:36:27 draining brand[1/2]: In 0.15, 1/2 chance of doing on average 25% extra damage to susceptible monsters and applying a debuff similar to a HD reduction which is stackable, refreshable, and lasts 20-30 turns. Disliked by good gods. 22:36:31 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:40:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:40:26 -!- mamgar_ has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 22:40:57 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:41:56 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:04 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:44:58 -!- Kramin has left ##crawl-dev 22:46:09 -!- schistosomatic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:10 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:25 !learn edit draining_brand[1] s|.*|In 0.15, 1/2 chance of doing an additional (dam/4 + 3) damage (on average) and applying a debuff similar to a HD reduction which is stackable, refreshable, and lasts 20-30 turns. Checks rN and only works against natural enemies. Disliked by good gods. 22:49:26 draining brand[1/2]: In 0.15, 1/2 chance of doing an additional (dam/4 + 3) damage (on average) and applying a debuff similar to a HD reduction which is stackable, refreshable, and lasts 20-30 turns. Checks rN and only works against natural enemies. Disliked by good gods. 22:49:39 ??draining brand[2] 22:49:39 draining brand[2/2]: This debuff lowers: damage, spellpower, accuracy, MR, and many other things related to HD. This debuff does not lower: monster max hp, your exp gain, or your piety gain. 22:51:39 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 22:51:57 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:14 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:48 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:55 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 23:04:53 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:41 -!- markgo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:16:09 "Haifisch: I credit pleasingfungus for personally coding this wand into my game" 23:16:15 re: /heal wounds 23:19:40 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:20:48 -!- demiskeleton_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:58 what 23:28:57 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:02 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:43:26 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:05 -!- GeorgieFruit has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:14 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:25 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:46:26 -!- Pluie has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:01 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:15 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 23:49:38 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 23:50:25 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:50:49 -!- Blazinghand|Work is now known as Blazinghand 23:58:39 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:21 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev