00:01:55 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:16 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:24 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1349-g4473391: Make Vaults exit stairs a portal. 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=447339177ed9 00:05:24 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1350-g77199c6: Remove Hall of Blade descriptions. 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77199c677e8d 00:05:24 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1351-g1f1de3a: Remove tiledef for Make Dart Trap. 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f1de3a74fa8 00:05:24 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1352-gb0119f4: Move steel/silver dart tiles to UNUSED. 10(3 minutes ago, 8 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b0119f4bb604 00:06:37 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:07:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1348-g57c10a8 (34) 00:09:30 Heh. 00:12:32 rip blade 00:13:18 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:12 fr: bring blade back as a portal vault 00:15:09 -!- Sonata has quit [Quit: ₪₪₪-₪₪₪-₪₪-₪₪₪] 00:15:13 Bad idea: Give Komodo dragon curare melee 00:16:43 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:17:06 -!- RZX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:13 <|amethyst> and rename Snakebite to Komodobite 00:18:36 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1352-gb0119f4 (34) 00:19:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:21:56 -!- eb_ has quit [] 00:22:22 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:44 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:49 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 00:27:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31:50 -!- Lumpydoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:32:59 Lightli: good news: it already is! 00:33:00 :) 00:33:49 where? 00:34:49 Tukima's 00:37:16 it's a wizlab, yes. 00:50:06 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 00:51:53 -!- WeiSong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:52:17 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:54:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59:23 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:01:16 -!- MDvedh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:02:08 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:28 "I do hope a new minibranch is planned as a replacement though. I suggest the Forest of the Hiveblades, a single giant open level containing the Enchantress, a pile of dancing weapons, and millions upon millions of bees. Loot is composed of honeycombs and 700 short swords of venom. " 01:02:30 ... 01:02:32 fr 01:07:56 fr: beemen with bucklers and venom weapons 01:08:28 http://magiccards.info/5e/en/169.html 01:10:22 Lightli: so, spriggans 01:12:02 yes 01:12:08 that was not a very serious fr 01:12:29 really!!! 01:12:33 I thought you were 200% serious 01:12:35 at all times!!!!!! 01:13:29 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:18 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:54 PleasingFungus: Were is that quote from? 01:18:22 reaverb: sa thread. there are some angry people there right now, but there's also... that guy 01:18:27 which makes me happy 01:19:17 Heh, there are people mad about HoB removal? 01:19:39 ohhh yes 01:19:45 are you seriously surprised 01:20:30 Hmm, I haven't seen a serious negative responce anywhere else. 01:20:55 Are vaults allowed to have more than one staircase leading out of D anymore? 01:21:10 If you think the enemies are awful don't go into the optional branch with nothing but them? What is wrong with people? Another removal because some people get salty about stupid shit and ruin for those who don't feel the same way. 01:21:17 Cool, there was zero reason to get rid of Blades yet they do it anyways. What the fuck? How about instead of taking out another branch you tweak it to make it more worth visiting. 01:21:22 and then they get angrier from there 01:22:00 Haha 01:22:19 basically, rip 01:22:36 yeah sa thread has gotten really weird lately 01:22:43 maybe it was always like that and I notice it more now 01:22:46 no 01:22:58 it used to be all about 'here's my latest game', 'help advise me on this', 'UGH THIS SPLAT WAS BULLSHIT' 01:23:02 i think entry vaults are allowed to have multiple staircases out but only when it's really necessary to make the vault look good or something 01:23:07 now it's all design chat 01:23:09 which is weird 01:23:13 yeah, I know it was that from like, 0.11 to 0.13 01:23:18 well it's kind of like 01:23:22 as you get too good to be interested in playing a game anymore 01:23:32 you then go on to talk about it instead 01:23:46 counterpoint: almost no one in that thread is any good 01:23:48 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:48 (myself included) 01:23:50 'hmmmm' 01:24:14 pacra is good, doubt he posts though 01:24:22 when was shoals added 01:24:26 like 0.6 right 01:24:40 haha, 'checking your history'? 01:24:46 yes 01:25:09 shoals predate the git repo, though tides are 'only' 5 years old 01:28:17 ...looks like they were added in 0.3 01:28:23 (shoals, not tides) 01:30:54 The new automation on chunkless is amazing, I can completely ignore food now. 01:31:02 PleasingFungus, the changelog says 0.6 01:31:04 This may or may not be a completley good thing. 01:31:19 Zaba: ah - perhaps the code was added before it was actually in a release? 01:31:29 PleasingFungus, not really 01:31:32 well 01:31:39 there's a BRANCH_SHOALS enum in 0.3 01:31:41 so 01:31:53 I remember reading was around for like 2-3 cycles before being included. 01:31:58 On the wordpress site. 01:32:06 ah 01:32:15 yeah, seems plausible then 01:32:17 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:51 yeah reaverb it really is ignorable 01:32:59 someone also posted their review of a chunkless win in the sa thread 01:33:34 Hmm. 01:33:36 %git 5575ae2b4e56 01:33:36 07haranp02 * 0.3-a0-212-g5575ae2: s/island/shoal/ 10(7 years ago, 13 files, 39+ 39-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5575ae2b4e56 01:33:43 that seems to be the earliest mention 01:34:09 http://pastebin.com/CSuke9Wh 01:34:21 the 0.6 changelog has a "new branch: shoals" line 01:34:26 so i went with that 01:34:29 the guy isn't very nice fwiw 01:34:39 i think before then it was just a level generator test thing 01:37:10 Eh, it's polite enough, although I don't really completley agree with his conclusions. 01:38:33 johlstei:Thanks for showing me that. 01:38:41 no problem 01:39:21 -!- xordid has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:16 -!- Orfax has quit [] 01:40:53 fr: random branches that picks a monster spell, and fills a branch with monsters that cast that spell 01:40:59 hope you don't roll paralysis 01:41:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:41:08 or LCS 01:41:37 I wonder if anyone has ever submitted a serious fr 01:41:49 no 01:41:59 fr remove food is entirely earnest 01:42:06 though ive sort of convinced myself otherwise 01:42:21 or at least that there needs to be some sort of replacement 01:42:32 why not replace it with contam 01:42:34 like crawl light 01:43:08 djinn had that, didn't seem very limiting but I guess I never got one that high a level 01:43:08 didn't this exact discussion happen like yesterday 01:43:10 and also on crd 01:43:15 and also earlier today 01:43:16 and probably on tavern too 01:43:30 Why does there need to be a replacement? 01:43:30 also in the sa thread, yesterday 01:43:48 -!- Milan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:01 But really food needs to stay because of fedhas, just like curses and ashenzari 01:44:05 contaim for hunger? Yes deja vu. 01:44:32 Red_Bucket: We decided a solution to that problem like 3 weeks ago. 01:44:47 fedhas is not remotely a blocker for anything related to food 01:44:52 the problem is everything else 01:45:07 same for curses/ash 01:45:11 elyvilon is a better case if you just wanna name a god 01:45:17 'you can stick an item to yourself' could just become a mechanic that only exists once you start worshipping ash 01:45:30 well. some unrands use 'curse' to very good effect 01:45:37 e.g. obsidian axe, necklace of bloodlust 01:45:58 and I think there are one or two others 01:47:00 well if it's only unrands 01:47:02 they could get unique effects 01:47:04 scythe of curses 01:47:17 the question is how you'd uncurse them, really 01:47:19 here's a random idea for curse in a no remove curse world: it takes exp to remove it 01:47:23 (like recharging evokers) 01:47:35 that kind of kills the ones you want to remove in emergencies 01:47:53 it would be appropriate for robe of misfortune etc style items 01:47:54 having to commit for a long time is a different thing than having to spend a finite resource, but having the opportunity to do so at any time 01:47:56 the idea would be that you can only remove them in an emergency once in a while 01:48:15 idk. it's not obviously an awful idea, I think 01:48:18 -!- Bron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:25 I mean it's obviously different 01:48:31 yeah, it's pretty different, I don't think it's bad 01:48:40 would need to think about it more 01:48:54 ash could gift remove curse or something 01:48:58 another kind of curse in no remove curse world: pay 20% of your current HP to remove it 01:49:12 pay 1 max hp to remove it 01:49:15 'no' 01:49:25 strategic cost nicks and chips are what we're trying to remove 01:49:30 hence item destruction removal, hence corrosion reform 01:50:17 are we? 01:50:21 I didn't know we were trying to do that. 01:50:23 news to me 01:50:52 making a deliberate choice for a strategic tradeoff is different from an enemy that demands tedious tactics purely to avoid strategic costs 01:51:12 (I think max hp/mp costs are cool and more should exist) 01:51:18 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:44 Patashu: Yes, it just so happens that annoyances tend to be startegic in nature. 01:52:02 Since if you can rest it off after it isn't as big a deal. 01:52:02 making the player answer questions like how much hp they'd trade for +1/+1 slaying or a school enhancer sounds fun to me 01:52:38 johlstei: That does sound reasonably fun, I think Lasty's god of balance does something similar? 01:52:49 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:52:51 yeah I like the sound of that a lot 01:53:09 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:01:17 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:22 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 02:11:44 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140526030202]] 02:12:04 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:13:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:17:22 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:24 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1352-gb0119f4 (34) 02:18:16 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:22 -!- NTRAFF has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:32:21 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 02:35:00 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-1353-gcdebce7: Rework the web effect of sack of spiders 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 47+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdebce73275b 02:37:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:22 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:51:32 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:56:17 -!- Atomikkrab is now known as bedkrab 02:56:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:57:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:59:58 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:13 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 03:06:29 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:05 -!- Daedalus_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:10:26 AppHdr.h: Adjust PRINTF macro for use with mingw-w64 by johnnyzero 03:13:08 -!- Satonakaja has quit [Quit: Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei!] 03:30:12 -!- Wahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:33:59 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:17 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:56 -!- bedkrab has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:41:51 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:42:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:40 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:02 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:04:45 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:11:33 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:40 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 04:22:52 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:42 -!- xunplini has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 04:32:43 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:33:17 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 04:46:43 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:35 -!- owl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:51:25 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:29 lots of rubbish talk on SA <3 (Blade removal) 04:56:08 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:37 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:14:52 -!- Nerem has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:20 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:15 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:58 Blade got removed? I guess I should start playing trunk again to keep up with the times 05:34:03 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:12 just some hours ago 05:53:07 -!- crawler has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:55 -!- crawler has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:38 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:55 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:19:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:47 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:01 -!- Bcadren_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:30:27 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:18 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:28 -!- category has quit [Client Quit] 06:39:38 -!- CampinSam has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:38 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:42:59 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:46:38 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:15 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:15 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 06:47:15 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:46 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:58 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:24 -!- tali713 has quit [*.net *.split] 07:02:38 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:04:52 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:20 -!- Adventurer has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:03 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:07:46 ugh, msysgit has a gigantic install and since i got interrupted 3/4 of the way through gotta do it again 07:20:44 -!- Lightli has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- evablue has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- t4nk055 has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- Zooty has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- koil has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- fearitself has quit [*.net *.split] 07:20:44 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [*.net *.split] 07:21:21 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:45 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:23:17 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:01 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:28:18 -!- Day has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:30 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:11 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 07:31:14 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:50 i think #6595 might be my favorite bug ever 07:45:42 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:30 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:07 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:58:00 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:04:04 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:08:46 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:38 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:10:46 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:16:44 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:19:35 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:35 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:28:26 !mantis 6595 08:28:26 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6595 08:28:54 wheals: I also like https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=666 08:30:29 yeah a good number 08:38:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:22 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:47:34 -!- predator217 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:04 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:50:55 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:56:00 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:48 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:48 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:02 <|amethyst> johnny0: I'm a little confused by something in your patch 09:02:09 <|amethyst> johnny0: at #8660 09:02:37 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:04:23 <|amethyst> johnny0: it has this: # define PRINTF(x, dfmt) const char *format dfmt, ...) __attribute__((format (__MINGW_PRINTF_FORMAT, x+1, x+2)) 09:05:15 <|amethyst> johnny0: doesn't -D__MINGW_PRINTF_FORMAT turn that into something like ... __attribute__((format (1, 1, 2))); ? 09:07:30 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:17 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:29 <|amethyst> johnny0: and wouldn't you want gnu_printf anyway? 09:13:12 <|amethyst> johnny0: (as the format, rather than the "printf" you fall back to if it's not defined) 09:24:00 -!- Amnekian has quit [Client Quit] 09:28:16 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:33:01 -!- Titanic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:33:19 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: negatendo] 09:34:44 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:44 -!- Bcadren_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:01 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:27 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:29 -!- evablue has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:52 -!- rbrrk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:05:30 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:15 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:25 -!- Medra is now known as Medar 10:16:17 -!- fooobarrr has quit [*.net *.split] 10:16:17 -!- tw_ has quit [*.net *.split] 10:16:17 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 10:16:17 -!- yokelz has quit [*.net *.split] 10:16:17 -!- Henzell has quit [*.net *.split] 10:17:23 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:25 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:48 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28:38 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:00 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:30 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:36 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:03 -!- rbrrk has quit [Changing host] 10:42:04 -!- Frank2368 has quit [Changing host] 10:42:07 -!- Farcaster has quit [Changing host] 10:46:24 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:13 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140526030202]] 11:08:05 -!- the_glow1 is now known as the_glow 11:08:21 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:18 haha i was going to suggest a quote for worm 11:11:24 but i see i've been beaten to it 11:12:09 not one of poe's most-known works but not all that obscure either 11:12:44 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:24 !tell MarvinPA does 404cd4368 mean that people will realize not to finessezerk? best to revert just in case imo 11:13:25 wheals: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 11:14:15 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:14:35 I like how the only comment explaning why Finessezerk is banned is //�Totally�incompatible 11:14:44 As though that explains it. 11:17:24 MarvinPA: Do you have any opinion on chimeras? I think that current box of beasts doesn't work very well in that it scales in a bad way: not very useful at lower levels of evocations but very powerful at high evocations, and I'm not sure if the chimera mechanic is worth preserving 11:17:28 -!- DiazepaN has quit [Quit: DiazepaN] 11:18:05 random idea: chimera wizlab 11:18:24 cigotuvi 11:18:45 Yeah, I'm not totally opposed to use of chimera monsters, since the idea of randgen monsters is cool, but they'd need a good home, and I'm not sure we have much of an opening 11:19:07 <|amethyst> flavourwise Shoals kind of makes sense 11:19:17 <|amethyst> since Greek mythology 11:19:36 do chimerae always fly? 11:19:37 Shoals has enough monsters in my opinon, unless somebody wants to remove Fauns and Satyrs from there 11:19:38 yeah the problem has never been the flavour; the problem in my view is where would chimera actually be more interesting than just placing the three monsters that make it up 11:19:50 no, they don't 11:20:17 probably would be good to do that for shoals then 11:20:19 they get flight based on what monsters they're made from; I think if any single one has flight they get it, but if not it's based on the first monster 11:21:11 Where I can see using them is more depths or late-game content in general, where combining parts of powerful monsters is likely to be more interesting 11:21:28 did i ever tell you how much i hate git 11:21:28 Bloax: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:22:39 But using them in lair branches is probably not going to be terribly good since the monster sets are relatively restricted, and I'd assume we'd make chimera based on the branch population 11:23:14 We might need a special list - chimeras break on a lot of monsters. 11:23:33 <|amethyst> reaverb: there's already a function to check whether something is a valid chimera part 11:23:42 |amethyst: Oh, hmm. 11:23:42 <|amethyst> reaverb: so at worst it would need to have more exceptions added 11:23:59 exciting new bugs 11:24:41 I mean, it might help if we had a list of actually interesting chimera that could ge generated in specific places; in D, depths, maybe zot, maybe vaults I could see some interesting chimera 11:25:20 I think having more spellcasting chimeras would help - do chimera reveal their spell lists? 11:25:28 hrm 11:26:32 -!- bones___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:50 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:14 <|amethyst> reaverb: apparently not 11:27:37 <|amethyst> It has the head of a satyr, the head of a tengu conjurer, and the head of a 11:27:37 <|amethyst> vault sentinel. It has the body of a satyr and it hovers like a tengu conjurer. 11:27:44 chimera (orb of fire, Orb Guardian, electric golem) (06H) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Dam: 45, 1511(elec:30-44) | !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold++, 10elec, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 7903 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), blink, malmutate, b.lightning (3d31), 04esc:fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: animal. 11:27:44 %??orb of fire-orb guardian-electric golem chimera 11:28:01 <|amethyst> no spells listed in xv, but it certainly has them, since it Marked and Force Lanced me 11:28:08 Hmm. 11:28:15 3d43 fireball as an escape spell 11:28:25 wheals: Zot would have good chimeras too :D 11:28:34 -!- Farcaster has quit [] 11:28:38 chimera (Orb Guardian, orb of fire, electric golem) (06H) | Spd: 14 | HD: 15 | HP: 62-105 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Dam: 45, 1511(elec:15-21) | fighter, !sil | Res: 06magic(60), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold++, 10elec, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 1363 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), blink, b.lightning (3d20), 04esc:fireball (3d25) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 11:28:38 %??orb guardian-orb of fire-electric golem chimera 11:28:53 <|amethyst> yeah, the chimera code should probably be more careful about what slots it puts spells in 11:28:56 boo, this one's worse 11:29:01 chimera (Hell Sentinel, orb of fire, electric golem) (06H) | Spd: 12 | HD: 19 | HP: 121-166 | AC/EV: 25/3 | Dam: 40, 1511(elec:19-27), 25 | !sil | Res: 06magic(76), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 3716 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), melee, b.fire (3d28), b.lightning (3d23), 04esc:fireball (3d29) | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 11:29:01 %??hell sentinel-orb of fire-electric golem chimera 11:29:09 get rekt 11:29:20 wheals: HD is just that of the chimera's first monster. 11:29:28 So put the strongest monster firt. 11:29:30 first. 11:29:36 chimera (orb of fire, Hell Sentinel, electric golem) (06H) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Dam: 40, 1511(elec:30-44) | !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 9444 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), melee, hellfire (3d20), b.lightning (3d31), 04esc:fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: animal. 11:29:36 %??orb of fire-hell sentinel-electric golem chimera 11:29:36 chimera (orb of fire, Ice Fiend, electric golem) (06H) | Spd: 12 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Dam: 2512(cold:30-89), 1511(elec:30-44) | !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 6424 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), blink, b.cold (3d40), b.lightning (3d31), 04esc:fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: animal. 11:29:36 %??orb of fire-ice fiend-electric golem chimera 11:30:01 good escape 11:30:35 chimera (rat, orb of fire, Mara) (06H) | Spd: 12 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3, 30 | !sil | Res: 06magic(4), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 1 | Sp: blink; b.fire (3d9), mara summon, 04esc:fireball (3d8) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 11:30:35 %??rat-orb of fire-Mara chimera 11:30:38 HD 1 11:30:49 <|amethyst> too bad "two-headed ogre" has a hyphen in its name 11:30:52 mr 4? Heh. 11:31:05 unknown monster: "two-headed ogre-two-headed ogre-two-headed ogre chimera" 11:31:05 <|amethyst> %??two-headed ogre-two-headed ogre-two-headed ogre chimera name:six-headed_ogre n_rpl n_des 11:31:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:31:05 chimera (ettin, orb of fire, Mara) (06H) | Spd: 12 | HD: 12 | HP: 48-83 | AC/EV: 9/4 | Dam: 45, 30, 45 | two-weapon, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 898 | Sp: blink; b.fire (3d21), mara summon, 04esc:fireball (3d21) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 11:31:05 %??Ettin-orb of fire-Mara chimera 11:31:13 unknown monster: "lernaean hydra-royal jelly-serpent of hell coc chimera" 11:31:13 %??lernaean hydra-royal jelly-serpent of hell coc chimera 11:31:17 I could see thinking of chimera as more of a 'boss-type' monster; low generation rate, combining nasty things, but you only fight a single monster of the nasty things 11:31:29 the Lernaean hydra (08D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 5233 | Sz: Giant | Int: reptile. 11:31:29 %??lernaean hydra 11:31:33 kind of like rand-gen uniques in some sense 11:31:34 hm 11:31:44 chimera (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 54-88 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | Res: 06magic(52), 09poison+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 912 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 11:31:44 %??Hydra-hydra-hydra chimera 11:31:54 chimera (ettin, hydra, hydra) (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 48-83 | AC/EV: 9/4 | Dam: 45, 18, 18, 45 | two-weapon | Res: 06magic(48), 03poison++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 831 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 11:31:54 %??Ettin-hydra-hydra chimera 11:31:59 but I think just taking ordinary monsters and putting them into one is not likely to play well for the most part 11:32:03 <|amethyst> Yeah 11:32:07 Do chimera's deal correctly with mon-number? 11:32:10 <|amethyst> have a separate pop list for branches 11:32:14 chimera (air elemental, ettin, hydra) (06H) | Spd: 25 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 15, 45, 18 | Res: 06magic(24), 11elec+++, 03poison++, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 387 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 11:32:14 %??Air elemental-Ettin-hydra chimera 11:32:22 (The solution to them not would probably be to remove mon-number ) 11:32:29 chimerae probably do not and yes 11:32:36 i removed one use at least 11:32:47 ...what is mon-number? 11:32:57 oh is that the index 11:33:01 in the monster array 11:33:02 the number entry in the monster struct 11:33:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, that's mindex 11:33:21 mon->number, used for hydrae most notably 11:33:26 gammafunk: Basically it's used for whatever the monster needs. 11:33:39 that is a vague purpose indeed 11:33:42 yup 11:33:49 <|amethyst> it's used so that you can avoid one prop per monster type that needs them :/ 11:33:51 hydra heads, how many slime creatures make up a merged slime creature, etc. 11:34:06 battlesphere charges 11:34:17 |amethyst: Well using the hash table would probably be best. 11:34:20 right, I recall seeing this when dealing with simulacra 11:34:37 <|amethyst> reaverb: right, that's what I meant 11:34:47 <|amethyst> reaverb: it's exactly what props are for 11:34:53 <|amethyst> reaverb: but predates them 11:34:56 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:07 reaverb: think of the refactoring raverb, think of it 11:35:14 time to get out that glowstick 11:35:16 and dance 11:35:16 |amethyst: Ok, so would you support or not support an attempt to remove mon-number? 11:35:20 re(factoring)averb 11:36:19 This reminds of that intinsic subsystem massive refactoring I should actually try to attempt sometime. 11:37:37 <|amethyst> reaverb: I'm kind of ambivalent about removing it from existing monsters, since there'd be quite a bit of save compat code, and the code to use props is longer than the existing code 11:38:05 <|amethyst> reaverb: probably it would be a good idea in the long term though 11:38:24 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:29 ??stationary 11:38:29 I don't have a page labeled stationary in my learndb. 11:38:39 the save compat code could be general, or would it really have to be specific to each use? 11:38:40 |amethyst: Hmm, it should probably happen eventually, maybe along with the MAJOR_VERSION bump so save compat isn't an issue. 11:38:49 gammafunk: specific to each use. 11:38:53 huh, snorg doesn't use the same stuff to go berserk as rupert 11:39:04 It might just be reassigning a varaible though. 11:39:18 well, I mean if if...yeah I guess you'd want to make the new prop named appropriately for its use 11:39:25 I haven't actually used the props code that much <_< 11:39:28 <|amethyst> specific to each use, since you'd want the props for hydra heads and tentacle parents (for example) to have different names... yeah, that 11:40:00 <|amethyst> I think just changing it into one single prop would accomplish nothing 11:40:27 I don't think anybody was every proposing mushing them all into a single prop :D 11:40:31 hrm, although it seems that the actual monster-specific part would be basically an array mapping the mon-num to the property name 11:40:39 jesus fuck this shit 11:40:39 Are there other stationary monsters apart from oklob plants, statues (including Roxanne) and curse skulls (does that include Murray?). 11:40:45 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:58 reaverb: well I was sort of was implicitely with my question, which is why |amethyst said that 11:41:14 I could only see that being a good idea if we just wanted to remove the entry on a tag bump but we didn't want to completely finish seperating out the differant uses. 11:41:19 gammafunk: Oh, hmm. 11:41:24 wandering mushrooms, sort of 11:41:29 but yeah some kind of simple map of the monster enum value to the new property name 11:41:42 it doesn't seem that terrible at first glance, but it's probably not that easy 11:41:46 Kvaak: not good enough for my purposes (I am making a vault where a stationary monster guards a staircase). 11:41:54 okay 11:42:22 I am unable to get branch entrances in there for now, will ask for that later. 11:42:22 dpeg: just put the monster that cannot swim behind a deep water barrier 11:42:34 or possibly a bush barrier, which can be long-term enough 11:42:35 dpeg: Burning bush? 11:42:44 yeah burning bush is another 11:42:49 oklob sapling then 11:43:01 <|amethyst> dpeg: grep -B1 M_STATIONARY mon-data.h gives: curse skulls (all of them again), plants/bushes/toadstools/fungi/briar patches, ballistos, burning bushes, oklobs (and saplings), statues of all sorts (including training dummy/diamond obelisk/lightning spire) 11:43:06 (oklob annihilator) 11:43:07 ah, good call for the bush 11:43:09 |amethyst: <3 11:43:12 dpeg: but you can make the monster stationary with deep water as well 11:43:21 maybe thematically not what you want I guess 11:43:24 not murray, right? 11:43:24 Yes electric eels. 11:43:31 <|amethyst> murray is not stationary, right 11:43:39 wheals: so Murray can move, right? I never encountered him :O 11:43:44 he can 11:43:44 murray rolls around 11:43:49 Yes Murray's thing was moving. 11:43:54 yeah, he moves; he's like a curse toe without fungus 11:43:55 nice 11:43:56 Murray (04z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 180 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Dam: 20, 20 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2596 | Sp: sum.undead, s.torment | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 11:43:56 %??murray 11:43:59 and then other curse skulls started moving. 11:44:00 i actually ran into him the first time i did the vestibule :) 11:44:05 curse toe (08z) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 14 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 25/1 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5621 | Sp: s.torment, sum.mushrooms | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 11:44:05 %??curse_toe 11:44:05 and then they stopped moving again. 11:44:06 awesome 11:44:21 <|amethyst> Murray: "...and the forces of darkness will applaud me as I STRIDE through the gates of hell carrying your head on a pike!" 11:44:24 <|amethyst> Guybrush: "Stride?" 11:44:27 <|amethyst> Murray: "Alright then, ROLL! ROLL through the gates of hell..." 11:44:36 I will go with the classic stationary monsters for now. Lots more can be done. Everything a player complains about the vault, we should add something to it :) 11:44:50 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:54 could maybe add normal monsters behind grates. 11:44:54 hrm, murry is really just like, a greater mummy without smite? 11:44:59 greater mummy (16M) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 186-210 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6192 | Sp: sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:44:59 %??greater_mummy 11:45:09 just make sure it's diggable so I can bounce them to death with shock 11:45:10 oh right, and no summon demon either 11:45:10 Murray (04z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 180 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Dam: 20, 20 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2596 | Sp: sum.undead, s.torment | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 11:45:10 %??murray 11:45:14 he's a nerfed greater mummy 11:45:36 with rLRD- 11:45:38 which is pretty bad, he needs something to be a viable hell monster 11:45:49 but more ac 11:45:53 summon curse skulls 11:46:13 oh good, annoying defenses? we love that 11:46:24 needs 30/30 defenses 11:46:27 actually, he can get haunt along with the rest of his brethren 11:46:34 or would anyone object to that 11:46:42 curse skull (11z) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 13 | HP: 66 | AC/EV: 40/3 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1373 | Sp: sum.undead, s.torment | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 11:46:42 %??curse_skull 11:46:54 it certainly seems to have been the intended behavior (and actual in 4.1) 11:46:55 hrm, sum.undead and haunt? 11:47:00 or replace it 11:47:04 I assume replace it 11:47:17 replacing the sum. undead, yeah, sum. undead was supposed to haunt you 11:47:26 there was a comment to that effect removed recently 11:47:54 People talked about giving curse skulls haunt when spook statues were removed. 11:47:56 Seems fine to me. 11:48:05 yeah that does seem fine 11:48:18 for M, we don't want to do that, but those monsters have some different issues 11:48:36 namely what we want to do about death curses, but I personally don'twant to open that can of worms right now 11:48:54 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:11 oh no, not the dreaded underscored dpeg 11:49:22 !send gammafunk a can of swamp worms 11:49:22 Sending a can of swamp worms to gammafunk. 11:49:26 ew 11:49:32 gammafunk: that is the pious dpeg! 11:49:41 aha 11:49:51 You kneel at the altar of dpeg in prayer. 11:50:06 <|amethyst> 'at's not a pious dpeg. You've just strapped an altar to 'em! 11:50:09 * dpeg_ lectures at length about natrium chloride and how to build pillars from it. 11:50:23 dpeg does not appreciation your desertion! 11:50:52 <|amethyst> dpeg_: Preaching to your floc? 11:51:06 Tiamat, Avatar of the Dragonlord, a hell knight, a deep elf master archer, and jorgrun come into view. An altar to GOD_NAMELESS comes into view. 11:51:20 s/jorgrun/Jorgrun Earthshaker/ 11:51:34 assshaker 11:51:37 -!- rbrrk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:41 ...is Avatar of the Dragonlord really tiamat's title 11:51:48 btw, someone on the forum suggested that Donald should always get the title the player currently has. 11:51:49 yep 11:51:52 that sounds silly 11:51:53 ..wow 11:52:20 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1354-g5ae3ab2: Remove old, unhelpful comments 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ae3ab29b17d 11:52:22 that sounds great 11:52:22 Bloax: if you are talking about Donald: the whole guy is made from silly, imo. 11:52:22 Donald (02@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 84 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious | Res: 06magic(93), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1782 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 11:52:22 %??Donald 11:52:22 <|amethyst> dpeg_: but what if that's a weapon title and he's carrying a different weapon? 11:52:22 !tell Grunt is it intentional that ribbit has no title? 11:52:22 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 11:52:22 <|amethyst> dpeg_: in particular, what if it's a staves title? 11:52:31 wheals: Yes it is. 11:52:34 dpeg_: I'm commenting on AVATAR OF THE DRAGONLORD. 11:52:36 "Prince" Ribbit. 11:52:40 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:52:40 |amethyst: I don't mind :) Consistency over humour? 11:52:57 the frog formerly known as prince ribbit 11:53:03 <3 11:53:06 why isn't xtahua's title in uppercase 11:53:10 or actually the entire name 11:53:18 Xtahua the DOOR OPENER 11:53:19 he could get a title based on what weapon he has 11:53:20 clearly donald's stats should vary based on yours 11:53:20 maybe 11:53:26 XTAHUA THE DOOR OPENER 11:53:32 COMES INTO VIEW 11:55:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:27 Donald the Adventurer (Just Like You!) 11:57:42 whew 11:58:06 * wheals has finally gotten crawl compiled on Windows, now he can start ruining things again. 11:58:11 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:00 <|amethyst> wheals: using mingw or Visual Studio? 11:59:14 mingw (msysgit to be specific) 11:59:41 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:48 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 11:59:51 i'm just waiting for the compilation process to explode 12:00:42 wheals: yay! 12:01:22 and if it doesn't explode then i can ruin crawl!11! 12:01:45 finally 12:04:01 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:05:14 When people suggest "removing mumy stabbing" Does that mean removing "monsters falling back asleep" or "monsters returning to a wandering state and/or falling asleep"? 12:05:17 -!- Bcadren_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:27 I'm removing the first locally, not so sure the second should be removed. 12:05:31 -!- Wahaha has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:48 Mummystabbing is going upstairs and waiting obscene amounts of turns until everything below falls asleep again. 12:05:50 reaverb: I think it's fine that monsters go back to sleep. 12:05:56 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:06 so it's probably the 'go to sleep' part that is problematic 12:06:11 dpeg_: Hmm, but would you care much if it was removed? 12:06:44 it makes stabbers even hard... imo, it should be just very expensive to wait for monsters to sleep again (which it is for any species with hunger atm) 12:06:51 even harder 12:07:16 (And I really like stabbers because they have to play much differently from the rest: go to the monsters rather than wait for them.) 12:07:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:38 I don't think this will have that much of an effect on stabbers. (which are well designed) 12:07:40 I think the intent of monsters falling back asleep is that if a floor is necessary to explore further and has turned out to be a giant quagmire, it gives the player a way to deal with that 12:08:01 gammafunk: The monsters still revert to wandering state. 12:08:10 but wandering is not the same as sleeping 12:08:12 They just don't go to sleep completely. 12:08:15 not even by a long shot 12:08:25 maybe monsters should just not camp stairs and fall asleep next to them 12:08:31 wandering monsters tend to find the player pretty easilly 12:09:11 it's not to say that you can't remove it, but I think that's the intent of them falling back asleep for the most part 12:09:24 gammafunk: Oh, thanks for the clarification. 12:09:44 reaverb: I think getting away with the mechanic (monsters falling back to sleep) is something that you can afford if you have a decent clock. 12:09:52 I'm not sure if there's a compromise that could help for situations like that while removing the falling asleep mechanic 12:09:57 dpeg_ : But we don't :D 12:10:02 But we could! 12:10:16 Oh, well this commit will be trivial to revert then :D 12:10:43 gammafunk: I've actually thought about the "stair repulsion" thing Bloax mentioned. 12:10:55 Make the update_level moves normall push monsters away from stairs. 12:11:07 !tell Grunt My Vault bribe was a bit disappointing: only four neutrals and one ally out of the initial warden encirclement. Did you fare better? 12:11:08 dpeg_: OK, I'll let grunt know. 12:11:14 so generally you at least have a semi-safe spot at the entrance. 12:11:15 give them ENCH_REPEL_STAIRS 12:11:18