00:00:05 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:00:33 hrm, does dungeons have any actually useful cards now? I can think of water and dowsing, but trowel is in wonders, isn't it? 00:01:04 ??dungeons 00:01:05 dungeons ~ dungeon[1/1]: D is for Dungeon, which is where you start the game. Twenty-seven levels deep. 15 levels deep in .14, with {Depths} below. 00:01:05 You can still get Trowel in Dungeons. 00:01:12 ??deck of dungeons 00:01:12 deck of dungeons[1/2]: Cards: {water card}, {vitrification card}, {dowsing card}, {trowel card} (only in legendary), {minefield card}. In 0.13-, was given by Nemelex for jewellery, books, and misc items 00:01:22 Dungeons right now is Water, Vitrification, Dowsing, Trowel, and Minefield. 00:01:25 (fr more dungeons cards) 00:01:28 hmm 00:01:33 yeah that's a deck on its last leg 00:01:41 Need to remove minefield and add something 00:01:53 Tomb 00:01:55 <_< >_> 00:01:58 mmmmm 00:02:14 A mercenary emerges from the dungeon floor! 00:02:14 That... actually makes more sense than I first thought. 00:02:44 I think the problem is that it's not a very good deck, though 00:02:58 now that nem doesn't gift it, mercenary would be a fine addition 00:03:04 Strategic dec 00:03:11 deck of strategy 00:03:34 (fr remove all decks and redistribute the interesting effects to other things) 00:03:37 well mercenary already has a deck, i don't think dungeons has anything left to justify its existence really 00:03:41 +1 on that fr 00:03:51 Grunt: how about shuffle all decks together? 00:03:52 (0.15 todo) 00:04:01 !lg * nemelex won 00:04:02 * gammafunk shuffles Grunt. 00:04:02 645. Ayutzia the Warrior (L27 DEAK of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2014-03-14 20:02:14, with 2112875 points after 142306 turns and 19:11:45. 00:04:05 !lg * nemelex won s=name 00:04:06 645 games for * (nemelex won): 29x 78291, 27x mikee, 23x heteroy, 15x johnnyzero, 15x nht, 13x hyperbolic, 12x Cruella, 10x Pseudonut, 10x simm, 8x clouded, 8x Surr, 8x crate, 7x nago, 7x ihlosi, 6x elliptic, 6x bmfx, 6x itsmu, 6x hypermikee, 6x xyblor, 5x magistern, 5x nyaakitty, 5x ebarrett, 5x Vizer, 4x Zappman123, 4x Croases, 4x ToastyP, 4x trucutru, 4x Roshnak, 4x pivotal, 4x Tenaya, 4x Marvi... 00:04:08 * Grunt seems unharmed. 00:04:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:26 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3319-g6de5c0a: Make acquirement only produce legendary decks. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6de5c0a43063 00:07:55 (thanks Grunt) 00:08:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3318-gc75ed29 (34) 00:08:33 is felid teleporting in sprint a bug or a feature? 00:08:41 ...for a moment I wondered if that code was shared by Nemelex gifting, and then I noticed that _give_nemelex_gift is a thing. 00:08:44 doodad.special 00:09:10 Grunt: yeah, nemelex has weighting depending on piety 00:09:41 elliptic: that is, I was wondering if that change would also make all Nemelex decks legendary. 00:09:51 (Imagine how even more hilariously overpowered that would be!) 00:10:24 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:32 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:42 -!- rast- is now known as rast 00:12:03 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 00:14:08 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:24 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: quit] 00:16:23 Grunt: yes, easier to get shuffle gh/tr 00:16:25 rchandra: aiui, it's a bug ... 00:17:36 SamB_: what should felids do on death then? just resurrect in place? 00:18:07 felid teleporting in sprint is a feature insofar as it has been around forever and people have been aware of it without doing anything about it 00:18:17 whether it should happen is another question 00:18:35 it's probably in mantis already ... 00:18:38 one option is that you should resurrect on the <, I guess? 00:18:46 skipping the food room in linesprint almost caused a starvation death :) 00:18:47 since that is usually safe 00:18:59 resurrect on the < sounds good except for orbrun 00:19:47 sprint orbrun is already pretty stupid usually, that doesn't bother me too much really :P 00:19:58 I don't play sprint nowadays though, so 00:22:11 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:22:23 todo: multisprint early in 0.15 00:22:39 m-m-m-megasprint! 00:22:47 (I should figure out how microcrawl will work.) 00:23:16 I hope multirobin is resurrected to play multisprint 00:23:21 <3 00:23:46 ??multirobin 00:23:47 multirobin[1/5]: Like other *robin accounts, you share it with other players. Unlike other *robin accounts, they're logged in at the same time you are. In fact, all keypresses are shared! See multirobin[2] for setup/login details. See multirobin[3] for something awesome. 00:24:04 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:00 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:03 I can't remember if I ever explained microcrawl or not. 00:27:35 ??microcrawl 00:27:35 I don't have a page labeled microcrawl in my learndb. 00:28:00 microcrawl: a multisprint just like normal Crawl only every branch is one level. 00:28:03 I assumed it was like that weird fork 00:28:24 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:30 uhh 00:28:40 i.e. in most cases it uses the normal levels, layouts, vaults! 00:28:51 I just found...Frances and a shop spawned in deep water...bug? 00:29:10 There are some quirks that'd neeed to be figured out (Vaults, Pan if applicable, ...) 00:29:20 s/neeed/need/ 00:29:24 (NEEEEEDING) 00:29:51 that would be a cool sprint. similar to 10 rune challenge, but more crawly 00:30:33 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:39 you'd need to change the xp/piety scaling from the usual sprint ridiculousness 00:30:51 elliptic: that's in multisprint already :) 00:31:40 <|amethyst> hm 00:31:42 http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii113/Bcadren/bandicam2014-03-1501-29-14-252_zps247694a9.png~original 00:31:45 <|amethyst> NAME: kennysheep_mini_moat 00:31:45 <|amethyst> TAGS: extra decor 00:31:48 <|amethyst> KFEAT: O = any shop 00:31:51 I'm standing where francis spawned (I used Sunlight to make it walkable). 00:31:54 <|amethyst> (not the one in question) 00:32:14 <|amethyst> but should 'extra'/'decor' vaults really have a chance to place shops? 00:32:23 The shop in the middle of deep water is particularly queer 00:32:30 <|amethyst> # These three vaults possibly place shops, so I consider them as having items. 00:33:04 more linesprint fun: stone of tremors makes earth elementals in adjacent lines 00:33:10 <|amethyst> Bcadren: that's pretty much unreadable 00:33:26 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:41 |amethyst: I was considering making them abandoned shops, or removing the shop altogether. 00:35:00 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:19 |amethyst: the other possibility is to guarantee the shop and make them shop vaults (possibly have two versions - one with guaranteed shop and the other with no shop). 00:36:01 <|amethyst> too bad you can't conditionalise on which tag was used to pick the map :) 00:37:43 Uh... 00:37:46 Actually... 00:38:21 (I remember adding that functionality for temple overflows to get the number of altars right; I wonder if it'd work here.) 00:38:41 (remind me tomorrow after I get home from work) 00:42:21 Amethyst what? 00:42:25 it's a full screenshot 00:42:35 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 00:48:03 <|amethyst> you play at 640 * 350? 00:48:07 <|amethyst> with a fuzzy font? 00:48:09 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:56 <|amethyst> is there some "full size" link I'm missing? 00:52:00 http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii113/Bcadren/bandicam2014-03-1501-29-14-252_zps247694a9.png~original 00:52:05 that better? ...uhh 00:52:14 photobucket is bad 00:52:17 use imgur or something 00:52:21 <|amethyst> nope, same thing 00:52:24 it's bigger than most browsers you have to click on it to zoom 00:52:30 <|amethyst> clicking does nothing 00:52:34 <|amethyst> I can't even right click 00:52:38 there's a little + on the bottom-right 00:52:42 which brings up a still really tiny image 00:52:44 <|amethyst> where? 00:53:02 <|amethyst> oh 00:53:29 <|amethyst> is this something where I need to create a facebook account then sign up seven of my friends? 00:53:49 yes probably 00:53:50 good night 00:53:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0a1/20140313030202]] 00:54:22 |amethyst: no, you only need to sign the contract in blood, selling your immortal soul 00:54:54 <|amethyst> What Isn't Personal Information? Information we can gather from your visit that doesn't identify you personally, like your IP address, your operating system, your browser type and language, the date and time of your visit, as well as information about your ISP, referring URL, the search term that led you to the Site, your geographic region, the type of content you view, etc 01:01:21 sure, the IP address isn't personal! 01:01:24 right! 01:01:35 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 01:01:37 <|amethyst> I mean, I understand putting it there 01:01:51 <|amethyst> you wouldn't want server logs to fall under your privacy policy 01:01:58 <|amethyst> but still 01:02:14 <|amethyst> it's the "etc" that bothers me most 01:03:31 well, okay, yes 01:03:33 |amethyst: are you viewing this on something that the site thinks is a mobile device? 01:03:40 er, well, I dunno 01:03:51 <|amethyst> Grunt: let me try a different browser 01:03:52 I mean do you want them giving out copies of the whole log? 01:04:35 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh, hey, it works in firefox 01:04:44 <|amethyst> Grunt: chromium, not so much 01:04:52 oh heh 01:05:32 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05:33 I guess it sees "webkit" or so, but not a Chrome it recognizes, so it assumes mobile ... 01:06:33 <|amethyst> oh, and guess what 01:07:34 03gammafunk02 07* 0.14-a0-3320-geb0b70c: Simplify the miscellaneous item acquirement code (Reaver, #8272) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 32+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb0b70cff52e 01:07:36 <|amethyst> I reloaded the page again (the fourth or fifth time) in chromium and it switched to the non-mobile ui 01:07:36 <|amethyst> I guess it just needed to see a "normal" browser on the same ip? 01:07:56 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11:42 -!- thug_lessons is now known as lessens 01:15:00 ??mercenary 01:15:00 mercenary card[1/5]: Summons a mercenary who demands money (between 85% and 115% of its XP value in gold). If you pay, you get a permanent friendly ally. If you don't or can't, you get a permanent enemy (and no XP or items from it). Found in decks of changes, war and defence. 01:19:21 -!- Lprsti99__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:19:38 -!- Fortescue_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:33:08 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:33 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:10 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:43:01 Remove damage/random traps from vaults by minmay 01:43:20 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:22 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:44:32 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:49:19 Wow "^" is bitwise xor? I feel like that should using it on an unsigned int should cause a compile warning. 01:49:37 (I guess it made more sense in C, though) 01:50:07 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 01:51:01 -!- yesnomaybeprobab has quit [Client Quit] 01:51:20 reaverb: yeah, I really should have caught that 01:51:26 been looking at too much R code I guess 01:51:37 python too, probably 01:51:43 gammafunk: No, the makers of C should have caught it. 01:51:58 They should have forseen C++ and not used a power symbol :P 01:52:51 I'm not sure I can agree with that in any way, but hey isn't dennish ritchie dead anyhow 01:52:56 *dennis 01:53:26 gammafunk: Yes, he's dead. 01:53:32 ken thompson is still alive though 01:53:34 so you take that back! 01:54:28 gammafunk: I'm no serious about the maker of C forseeing it to become reasonable to have a power operator, but I am cofused why my compiler (or your compiler) didn't give a warning. 01:54:46 I can see no legitamite use to xoring two signed intergers. 01:55:45 bitwise operators were a big deal in their day, and there's no general exponentiation in the language anyhow 01:56:44 gammafunk: Yes, I noticed that when I tried to find an expoentation operator. 01:56:49 Python has ** I think? 01:57:12 yeah 01:57:31 what do you think about the python haters recently? 01:58:03 well, I like python because it's a general-purpose scripting language with a nice standard library that doesn't have Perl's awful syntax 01:58:15 I guess I only like it in comparison to Perl 01:58:53 Ruby has less wide adoption 01:59:00 but language wars are pretty boring to me :p 01:59:20 I'm sure |amethyst has much better opinions to listen to 01:59:30 since he's a comp. sci. professor 02:00:04 gammafunk: I haven't really dipped into any other scripting language, or even python itself now that I'm thinking about it. Maybe I should try Ruby some time. 02:01:37 I like to have a specific project to work with an existing (and complicated) codebase, since it's easier to learn compared to going through tutorials, but that's just me 02:01:51 s/work/work on/ 02:04:18 gammafunk: Yeah, I've learned a lot more about C++ through Crawl (an obturse and overcomplicated language) than my first try Python (renouned for ease of use.) 02:08:15 reaverb: yeah, it really helps to just start at a bunch of complicated code. too bad crawl's code is poorly written in many places, but like DracoOmega says it's really not all that awful (in most places) 02:09:58 gammafunk: I'm not so sure. The codebase completely lacks unit tests, for example. 02:10:08 I really do want the documentation to be better, hence I'm documenting any function I touch with javadoc-style comments for doxygen 02:10:49 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:32 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:42 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 02:11:47 gammafunk: Do you have a link for Doxygen commenting? I should probably pick up that habit too. 02:12:25 yeah, can't comment on unit tests, but generally better testing is a good thing 02:12:28 http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/manual/docblocks.html 02:12:41 We use javadoc style, but only a tiny fraction is documented 02:12:53 I need to actually start trying to make the documentation from the source 02:13:30 gammafunk: I've produced documentation with doxygen recently. 02:13:38 (from crawl) 02:13:53 ##doxygen is very helpful 02:15:54 Yeah, I'm sure it's not hard. Probably all of my comments look silly, so I should see what it looks like before making hundreds more the same way :p 02:16:08 Fore the most part I use it for the "This function is called by:" and "This function calls" listings. 02:16:30 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3320-geb0b70c (34) 02:16:50 I see, and you have an editor that supports TAGS or otherwise can do that kind of lookup for you? 02:17:15 gammafunk: I don't really have a proper development environment set up. 02:17:24 As in, hit a key, see the definition of the function/variable/datatype/enum 02:17:53 gammafunk: I use vim sometimes and Xcode (mac) other times. I don't have a comprehensive understanding of either. 02:18:10 right, others here can help you set up tags for vim; it's not hard 02:18:16 saves a ton of time 02:18:57 gammafunk: That sounds great, but I should probably be sleeping right now so I can't do it now. 02:24:13 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 02:24:13 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 02:27:41 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:28:03 -!- ac13 has quit [] 02:29:01 -!- Keanan has left ##crawl-dev 02:31:46 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:36:52 -!- tw__ is now known as tw_ 02:40:56 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:35 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:23 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:50:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:41 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:35 -!- moonprincess has quit [Quit: Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei!] 03:01:53 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:09:35 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:56 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:25 Would summon forest spawn any Fedhas evolvables? 03:46:56 -!- laan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:58 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:57:16 -!- buzzykins has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:57:44 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:59:21 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:03:38 -!- Hailey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:05 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:56 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:14:04 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 04:24:52 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:54 Fear affects krakens but not their tentacles by Kvaak 04:39:03 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 04:45:08 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:48:29 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:18 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:59:38 -!- ac13 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:15 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 05:13:13 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17:33 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:27 -!- ToastyP has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:24:44 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:55 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:27:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:31 -!- whug has quit [] 05:41:23 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:14 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:30 -!- Fortescue_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:23 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:58 -!- stickyfingers_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:29 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty_ 06:03:48 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:04:06 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:14 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty_ 06:07:23 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:08:11 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:19 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:21 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 06:15:03 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:18:20 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:27:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:13 -!- buzzykins has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:50:50 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:16 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:01:28 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:03:46 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:32 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:59 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:20 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:58 Wrong tiles by spacehippo 07:13:59 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:52 -!- Zammy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:29:11 -!- Escalator has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 07:35:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:40:27 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:04 !tell tenofswords Patch to take care of all of my forest branch vaults save the end, feedback welcome: http://sprunge.us/EVOZ?diff 07:45:04 gammafunk: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 07:45:41 !tell tenofswords ...and would it be terrible if the enchanted lake one had a water nymph in the lake? 07:45:41 gammafunk: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 07:53:26 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:35 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:42 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:02:42 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:19 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:18 -!- radinms has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:11:52 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:13 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:13:24 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 08:19:04 -!- w4ldf33 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:07 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:10 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:43 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:30:56 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:31:20 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:32:02 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:10 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:07 -!- notcluie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:52:50 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 08:57:58 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:01:11 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:54 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:41 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:42 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:41 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:12 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:35:36 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:37:32 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:53 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:32 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:49 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:43:41 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3321-g87ed260: Only place shops in some minivaults if requested (|amethyst). 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 77+ 45-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87ed260aadee 09:45:06 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:47:52 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:18 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 09:52:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:53:50 Unify MR from items and other sources, rescale artefact MR by chris 10:02:43 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:03:39 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:40 -!- Bamboomancer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:19:42 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:20:34 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:29 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:49 -!- ToastyP is now known as Guest96609 10:38:30 -!- Guest96609 is now known as ToastyP_ 10:42:19 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 10:44:31 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:06 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:52:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:23 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:29 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 10:56:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:18 -!- dwawwwwww has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:58:56 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:35 -!- dwwwwwwwwwa has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:39 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 11:04:08 <|amethyst> re bitwise xor of unsigned ints... what else *would* you use bitwise xor on? 11:04:19 <|amethyst> (yes, I'm very slow) 11:08:55 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:16:28 Uh, I'm trying to report something on mantis but I get a "Invalid form security token. Did you submit the form twice by accident?" 11:16:51 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh wow, I didn't know there actually was a way to do that :) 11:17:12 <|amethyst> dck: that can also happen if it takes too long to fill in the form 11:17:28 yep, I just noticed myself 11:17:34 hooray bug reports 11:17:49 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:20:02 Tengu flight in dragon form doesn't give an EV bonus by dck 11:20:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:27 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:25 -!- demiskeleton_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:28:42 -!- notcluie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:29:36 -!- notcluie has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:43 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:54 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:56 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 11:32:49 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:31 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:18 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:05 hey when playing trunk every time i start or resume a game i get 11:41:07 Warning: Cannot find file "autopickup_exceptions.txt". (~/.crawlrc:3) 11:41:08 Warning: Cannot find file "runrest_messages.txt". (~/.crawlrc:92) 11:41:14 (5 more similar lines) 11:41:28 and my inventory isnt colored etc 11:41:41 what are the correct locations for those files? 11:41:50 this on CAO 11:45:23 rast: Sounds like you're using an rc that is too old? 11:45:32 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:45:37 Bloax yeah i pretty much copied my rc from .13 11:45:45 what do i need to change? 11:45:56 well that's funny 11:46:06 <|amethyst> rast: did you have customizations? 11:46:16 <|amethyst> rast: keep the customizations, remove the other stuff 11:46:17 |amethyst yes though not to those files 11:46:46 <|amethyst> rast: remove those includes from your rc 11:46:58 <|amethyst> rast: they're included by default now (but from a different directory) 11:48:51 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:39 ok done. thanks 11:49:45 but my inventory still isnt colored 11:49:55 <|amethyst> rast: hm 11:50:26 <|amethyst> rast: did you install trunk, or are you running it from the build directory? 11:50:39 im on CAO 11:50:39 |amethyst: Saying "unsigned ints" was a mistake. I meant to say "signed ints" (which is what MAX_SKILL_LEVEL is) 11:50:45 <|amethyst> reaverb: ah 11:53:01 corpses are also not colored.. 11:53:37 oh wait i may need to uncomment all these lines that are commented by default? jeez 11:53:41 <|amethyst> rast: no 11:54:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:56:18 -!- kr4n3_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:06 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:58:57 <|amethyst> rast: hmm 11:59:00 <|amethyst> let me check your rc 12:00:00 <|amethyst> rast: all those menu_colour = foo lines 12:00:02 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/rast.rc 12:00:10 <|amethyst> rast: should now be menu_colour ^= foo 12:00:25 what is ^= ? 12:00:31 <|amethyst> prepend 12:00:33 why not += 12:00:33 <|amethyst> you can use += to append 12:00:43 <|amethyst> ^= overrides defaults, += defers to it 12:00:46 do later entries override earlier? 12:00:49 ok 12:01:29 corpses on the ground aren't colored either 12:03:49 -!- w4ldf33 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:52 force_more_message should also be += or ^= ? 12:05:04 and note_messages and note_items ? 12:05:13 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:05:42 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 12:06:28 -!- Tarragon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:31 <|amethyst> rast: yeah, more or less all of the list options 12:07:46 <|amethyst> rast: I'm surprised that worked in 0.13 12:08:09 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [] 12:09:57 frankly im not a fan of the new syntax since its too easy to completely wipe out a whole set of options with one bad = 12:10:11 <|amethyst> rast: that's kind of the point 12:10:17 <|amethyst> rast: to let you replace the defaults 12:11:23 fr: rc files are defined in haskell 12:15:27 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3321-g87ed260 (34) 12:16:31 |amethyst if you want to replace the defaults you should have to do so explictly 12:17:38 i dont think the two commands "add X to defaults for option Q" and "wipe out all defaults for option Q then add X to new defaults" should be one character apart 12:18:14 then again = and == in many probably should be more differecnt, but here we are 12:19:00 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:19:09 <|amethyst> so likewise in C 12:19:21 <|amethyst> x = 3; and x += 3; shouldn't be so similar? 12:20:08 <|amethyst> we had two versions where you had to use foo = then foo += bar to reset the option 12:20:23 <|amethyst> hm 12:20:26 <|amethyst> but maybe you're right 12:20:33 <|amethyst> we should just give an error for foo = bar 12:22:48 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:27 -!- darkfrog_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:24:33 <|amethyst> maybe an assert? 12:25:48 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:08 -!- Acidburn6 has quit [] 12:26:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:36 forcing people to do foo= and then foo += bar seems okay to me 12:28:51 if that is what you are saying 12:34:25 <|amethyst> so what should foo = bar do? 12:34:29 <|amethyst> crash the program? 12:34:38 |amethyst the difference is that in C x is most likely a variable but here its a list of options 12:34:39 <|amethyst> print a warning and not change the option? 12:35:23 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:35:30 yeah. or print a warning and do += 12:35:32 no crash please, no need to make it too easy for players to crash on demand with lua 12:35:37 (which is what it did in .13) 12:35:43 <|amethyst> rast: no it's not 12:35:50 i thought it did? 12:35:52 I'd say print a warning and don't change anything 12:35:55 <|amethyst> in 0.12 12:35:59 ah ok 12:36:10 <|amethyst> %git d8c861 12:36:11 07|amethyst02 * 0.13-a0-935-gd8c8611: Make list_opt = foo reset the list, not append. 10(10 months ago, 5 files, 46+ 126-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d8c861177ea6 12:37:27 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:25 <|amethyst> What about -= ? 12:38:29 <|amethyst> I guess remove that? 12:38:41 is -= a thing? 12:38:55 <|amethyst> Yes, to remove a particular value from a list option 12:39:09 <|amethyst> But it's also uncomfortably close to += 12:39:33 but it doesnt wipe out the entire list 12:42:13 shrug. what makes it really bad is changing what = does many years into the project 12:42:33 just to support the ability to wipe out a list of options 12:42:59 if += and ^= were around from the start it wouldnt be a big deal 12:43:14 most players weren't "around from the start" 12:43:36 and having the ability to remove defaults is important 12:43:58 right, but the syntax should be something else 12:44:01 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:44:49 <|amethyst> how about we go back to the 0.10 behaviour 12:45:03 <|amethyst> instead of having all these magic invisible defaults 12:45:08 <|amethyst> actually put them in the rc 12:45:14 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:54 I think the problem with that was that it meant that people's rcs didn't pick up changes that we made to the defaults? 12:46:00 <|amethyst> right, but 12:46:07 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:13 <|amethyst> maybe we shouldn't be changing someone's settings without their consent 12:46:42 we are changing their *games* too in version upgrades, not just their settings :P 12:47:19 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47:36 -!- Keanan has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:50 FR: new version of crawl should not change anything from previous versions 12:47:59 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:04 <|amethyst> agreed 12:48:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:15 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:34 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty_ 12:53:17 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 12:55:56 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:59 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:50 <|amethyst> Untested, but: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/0001-Make-list_opt-foo-print-an-error-message-and-do-noth.patch 13:11:13 -!- soundlust|3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:50 -!- Lprsti99___ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:07 -!- Fortescue_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:15:37 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:16:15 -!- Fortescue_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:00 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:24:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:41 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:47 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 13:32:23 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:19 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:26 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:28 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 13:34:23 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:21 -!- moonprincess has quit [Quit: Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei!] 13:43:53 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:30 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:06 -!- Mad_Wack is now known as Mad_Wack_Away 13:54:32 -!- Mad_Wack_Away is now known as Mad_Wack 13:55:01 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Client Quit] 13:56:40 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Client Quit] 14:14:23 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:29 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:34 !tell bh <+bh> Wensley: python is an abomination <-- this is not a refutation of my assertion 14:22:35 Wensley: OK, I'll let bh know. 14:28:01 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:05 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:38 -!- Tarragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:18 -!- rubinko__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:38 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:39 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:03 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:47 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:05:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:45 -!- Mad_Wack is now known as Mad_Wack_Away 15:10:50 -!- Mad_Wack_Away is now known as Mad_Wack 15:11:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:41 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3322-g1b9ad37: Simplify player CBL code 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b9ad3724cf3 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3323-g66d9578: Conjure Ball Lightning adjustments 10(3 hours ago, 5 files, 22+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=66d9578d9604 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3324-ge55b05b: Prevent untargetted ball lightning from mostly wandering to the upper-left 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e55b05b7f074 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3325-gb70ed34: Let sack of spiders and box of beasts use autofoe behavior 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b70ed343a8d6 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3326-g1ac5a4c: Change formicid stat growth from s/4 to si/4 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ac5a4c7c0a0 15:18:41 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3327-g31f2211: A few gargoyle monster tweaks 10(61 minutes ago, 3 files, 11+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=31f22114d75c 15:18:43 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:38 Incidentally, in case someone was wondering, the reason I hadn't made that small nerf to adder poison that was discussed earlier yet is that I'd been trying to gather more stats for the current formula in other places, to have a better idea of how things in general would be affected. There seem to be spots elsewhere that are probably off from what they ought to be (though normally in the opposite 15:22:38 direction) 15:24:20 Though perhaps I will make that change shortly anyway, and just consider what to do about the other stuff independently 15:30:22 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 15:32:07 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 15:34:10 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:37 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:42 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 15:37:04 -!- DaneiTHREE has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 15:39:47 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:21 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:09 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:30 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:05:26 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 16:07:02 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:34 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:03 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:29 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:19 -!- rast-- has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 16:14:47 -!- ac13 has quit [] 16:22:27 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:29 -!- Miron_ is now known as Guest97561 16:32:27 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:49 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:19 are the colours for recommended/not combos on the character selection screen really similar, or is it just my eyes/putty? 16:36:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:47 They're more similar than they used to be, and I know at least one or two people have complained a little before. It looks fine to me in local tiles, but the color choice might be different there. 16:42:15 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:36 !learn delete spriggan_berserker[2 16:42:36 Deleted spriggan berserker[2/2]: They are capable of generating with antimagic quick blades, making them one of the few sources of pre-branded quick blades. 16:42:49 I'm curious why someone added this, since it isn't actually true 16:43:06 (They can't even generate with quick blades at all) 16:43:45 can you guess who added it 16:44:08 I have no idea 16:44:26 i guess you don't spend much time watching all his other bad learndb edits in ##crawl 16:45:18 Well, there's bad as in subjective bad, but I am just genuinely curious how someone got the impression that this was true. 16:45:26 spoiler: it's not me 16:46:17 i'm half convinced notcluie isnt playing the same crawl as everyone else 16:46:21 so maybe that's how 16:46:46 Oh, was it him? 16:46:56 i believe so 16:47:19 Yes, I suppose that could make sense 16:47:53 Mr 'orbs of fire are the least dangerous monster in Zot' >.> 16:49:56 |amethyst: are you able to rebuild cdo trunk? or Napkin? 16:57:11 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:34 faun (03c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 37-64 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 23 | 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 542 | Sp: corona, melee, confuse / corona, slow, melee | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 17:01:34 %??Faun 17:01:42 maybe their slow should last a bit less 17:01:53 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:06 or is slowing turn and not aut based now 17:02:18 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:23 (The context is that walking around at ~50 aut a step in water [cheislowedwaterwalking] it still takes about 15 steps to throw it off, which is an enormous amount of time.) 17:09:57 would it be difficult to make tengu reavers etc. stop killing themselves with fireball? 17:13:07 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:13:38 Same thing also happens with hellfire burst. 17:14:09 Questionable suicide mages remain questionable. 17:16:31 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:25 drowned soul (11p) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 14-25 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 012(drown) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, sense invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(69), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 457 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 17:17:25 %??Drowned soul 17:17:33 Margery will happily kill herself, which is pretty funny. 17:17:33 i am drowning in sand 17:17:49 someone help 17:17:56 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:18:44 !send Bloax vinestalkers 17:18:44 Sending vinestalkers to Bloax. 17:22:29 03gammafunk02 07* 0.14-a0-3328-g0963fee: Rework some vaults formerly in the forest branch for lair 10(19 hours ago, 2 files, 75+ 74-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0963fee4ff07 17:22:29 03gammafunk02 07* 0.14-a0-3329-g86b2fc4: Rework a forest branch vault for crypt 10(11 hours ago, 3 files, 53+ 52-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=86b2fc4f56c4 17:22:31 -!- notcluie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:56 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 17:26:53 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:46 -!- notcluie has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:24 !bug 8281 17:33:24 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8281 17:33:48 Anyone have opinions on this? I suppose either supress all the bonuses in forms or allow them 17:33:59 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Client Quit] 17:34:20 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:31 what happens with flying Te that casts, say, ice form? 17:35:48 it seems that all the forms I've tested allow tengu flight 17:36:05 all give the move speed bonus, and all allow flight 17:36:12 I think dragonform should too, then 17:37:40 well, the consistency should be there, yes, but should these forms allow flight + bonuses is also the question 17:37:49 you get spider wings in ice form? 17:37:55 er 17:37:58 let me try that again 17:37:59 Tengu flight does not involve wings, though 17:38:04 you get spider wings in spider form 17:38:07 It's magic 17:38:11 (Seriously though) 17:38:13 DracoOmega: what?! 17:38:17 That is correct, yes 17:38:24 my world is shattered! 17:38:28 Crawl Tengu are explicitly wingless, I believe 17:39:00 that is *such* a loophole! 17:39:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:25 dpeg: tengu don't have wings?! 17:39:26 (Though I am guessing that gargoyles can still fly as ice beasts if tengu can, code-wise >.>) 17:39:45 Yeah, tengu in other forms get the ev/move bonuses in addition to flight 17:40:04 only dform doesn't get the ev bonus 17:40:11 I think that's only because they start out flying 17:40:12 hrm 17:40:19 maybe they *are* gettign it 17:40:24 gammafunk: that's an old one, and no, they seem to have not. (I was surprised, too. (1) It's magic. (2) It's from D&D. (3) It's a Japanese myth. Take your pick :) 17:40:24 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:40:48 ??dragon_form 17:40:48 dragon form[1/4]: You're a dragon now! RAAAAWR! Breathe fire! Be tough (+50% hp) and strong! Gives +10 str, flight, rPois+ rFire++ rCold-, 34% GDR, +16 AC, huge size (will nuke your EV). Base unarmed damage = (20 + str*(2/3) + unarmed_skill). 17:41:20 aha 17:41:25 they in fact are getting the ev bonus! 17:41:41 dpeg: Well, traditional Japanese tengu often depict them with wings, for what it's worth (regarding number 3) :P 17:41:43 it's just harder to notice since you start out flying in dform 17:42:52 ?/tengu 17:42:52 Matching terms (5): tengu, tengu_conjurer, tengu_reasons, tengu_reaver, tengu_warrior; entries (26): beak[1] | chris_patches[2] | dodging[1] | fly[1] | gargoyle[1] | kcrawl[1] | kenku[1] | listgame_examples[2] | mdcrawl[1] | mercenary_card[2] | mercenary_card[4] | sky[13] | sojobo[1] | te[1] | tengu[1] | tengu[2] | tengu[6] | tengu[7] | tengu_conjurer[1] | tengu_reasons[3] | tengu_reasons[4] | ten... 17:42:54 er 17:42:56 ??tengu 17:42:56 tengu[1/7]: Basically humanoid with bird-like heads and clawed feet, the Tengu can wear all types of armour except helmets and boots. Gets temporary flight (with refractory period) at XL5, perm flight at XL15. While flying from any source, has +20% evasion (caps at +9 ev) and a -1 to movement delay. 17:43:03 Just for your pleasure. Cardiovorax on SA: [...] Crawl is all about competitive online high scores now. It's not about fucking around on your own time any more the way most roguelikes are, so they're obsessively balancing everything against everything these days, kind of like MMOs do. Removing a technique that's way more effective than everything else is easier than balancing everything else against it. It's why literally 90% of new stuff since 0.1 has ... 17:43:08 ... been like six attack spells, three or four races and a few gods. 17:43:32 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:35 haha 17:43:37 seeing that made me wish badsa was still in ldb 17:43:46 it's amazing, isn't it? 17:43:50 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:53 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:00 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 17:44:07 he is not a troll, but so far off in so few lines... <3 17:44:09 I really don't know what "obsessively balancing everything against everything" means at all 17:44:17 can anyone explain that to me? 17:44:23 DracoOmega: yes, I know. They didn't get wings in Crawl last time we discussed this (0.3 or so) Kenku weren't given wings because they get body armour 17:44:41 gammafunk: it means that we know the ancient technique of nerfing 17:44:55 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:00 while that technique is lost to many comtemporaries 17:45:42 Oh, I think I understand at least what he's implying 17:45:44 te fly without wings, but gr fly with wings and still wear armour 17:45:55 But "90! of new stuff since *0.1*" 17:45:57 er 90% 17:46:02 rchandra: different decisions by completely different people :) 17:46:07 Really, since "0.1"? 17:46:16 rchandra: Well, also draconians could fly via wings back when they still could wear body armour 17:46:19 maybe he meant 0.10 17:46:23 Black ones, anyway 17:46:33 true, but old dracs were weird anyway 17:46:34 gammafunk: if you feel like it, just bring up the Tengu issue again. I don't mind giving them wings (I wanted back then!), especially if you show us Japanese sources with them 17:46:40 Over the years I've been pretty annoyed with all the stuff the Stone Soup devs have unilaterally removed from the game, but I can understand why they do it. Crawl is all about competitive online high scores now. 17:46:47 It's not about fucking around on your own time any more the way most roguelikes are, so they're obsessively balancing everything against everything these days, kind of like MMOs do. Removing a technique that's way more effective than everything else is easier than balancing everything else against it. 17:46:49 dpeg: no no, what's important here is that dck is wrong in my view 17:46:57 It's why literally 90% of new stuff since 0.1 has been like six new attack spells, three or four races and a few gods. 17:46:58 and that I get to tell him 17:47:03 PleasingFungus: thanks. I was typing all of the manually. Don't ask. 17:47:04 oh fuck 17:47:07 hahaha 17:47:10 I didn't even see that someone else 17:47:16 :) 17:47:17 was already talking about that 17:47:21 damn 17:47:28 shoulda scrolled up! 17:47:32 I think it is better if forms don't break permaflight, fwiw 17:47:34 gammafunk: what about dck? I am sure he didn't do it on purpse. 17:47:35 anyway people make me laugh 17:47:42 PleasingFungus: but yes, it's a true gem 17:47:52 rip ??badsa 17:47:53 elliptic: ah, good reason 17:48:11 elliptic: could have winged ice form etc, if we wanted to 17:48:11 dpeg: no, he didn't and he's often (but not always!) right. It's just a pleasure we share when one of us gets to tell the other he's wrong 17:48:18 like flying pig <3 17:48:30 elliptic: Yes, I am fine with assuming that iceform gargoyles have icy wings, too :P 17:49:13 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:13 it might make more sense for them to break flying in some respects, but it causes annoying things like people killing themselves because there's a bug in the transform code and it lets them cast spiderform above water and drown 17:49:24 also annoying things like having to start flight again when the form ends 17:50:04 elliptic: yes, you are right. Permeflying should be properly permanent, so if we hand out wings, the forms have to be winged, too. Our choice if we think it's worth the trouble. 17:50:31 well, does wings vs non-wings actually mean anything other than what we say in the manual? 17:51:32 elliptic: no idea. Mutations? 17:51:36 I don't think it does 17:51:43 Except for monsters (who can drown when paralyzed or whatnot) 17:51:53 so the trouble is very little, and we shed the bike for the coming hours!!! 17:52:10 dpeg: are you asking whether tengu should be able to have perma-flight? 17:52:41 no! 17:54:29 ok, I probably lost the thread of convseration, but we're agreed that tengu should not lose perma-flight nor their bonuses in the forms? 17:55:20 yes 17:55:24 elliptic said so :) 17:55:29 !seen |amethyst 17:55:29 I last saw |amethyst at Sat Mar 15 18:10:50 2014 UTC (4h 44m 39s ago) saying 'Untested, but: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/0001-Make-list_opt-foo-print-an-error-message-and-do-noth.patch' on ##crawl-dev. 17:56:12 since currently that's what we're doing; for dform it's just not as obvious you're getting the ev bonus, since you start out flying in the form and you're not allow to stop flying 17:56:42 I mean, I do think permaflight needs to be thought more about at some point, and maybe there's a good solution that would feel more natural to players who worry about wings 17:56:53 hrm, one kind of "bug" is that you can still trigger perma-flight in dform as a tengu 17:57:09 I guess the only affect is that you'll be flying when the form ends (which is not insignificant) 17:57:36 Casting dragon form as a tengu shouldn't actually interrupt your normal permaflight in my opinion 17:57:48 So if you are flying when you start, you should still be flying when it ends 17:57:54 yes 17:58:29 DracoOmega: yes, we're agreed on that. The only "issues" are that it's hard to see that you got an ev bonus in dform as a tengu and that you can still trigger tengu flight in dform 17:58:38 but it seems that neither of those are truly problems 17:58:50 Hard to see in what way? Because you have so little EV to multiply? 17:58:54 That seems like a non-problem 17:58:57 PleasingFungus: the "obsessively balancing against everything" *is* true, only that we cannot live up to it 17:59:07 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:32 haha 17:59:39 I wish that permaflight was less bad against titans 18:00:02 DracoOmega: hard to see only in that your EV will decrease overall by a mysterious formula, but since dform always flies, you won't know that it's actually better than what you would have as not-tengu 18:00:16 I feel like as non-tengu I am actually worse off with permaflight than with flight spell because I keep it on all the time for convenience but then titans happen 18:00:20 gammafunk: That still doesn't seem like a problem to me 18:00:32 idk. obviously if your game offers a set of choices, they should neither be so weak as to be irrelevant, nor so strong as to make all others irrelevant. at least some of the time 18:00:34 DracoOmega: I'd say it's a minor problem, and more an interface one 18:00:38 but that has nothing to do with 'mmos' or 'online scoring' 18:00:44 it generated dck's bug report, and he's a very experienced player 18:01:35 just not sure it has any kind of easy solution as long as we make bonuses this way 18:01:48 this way meaning depending on whether you're flying or not 18:01:59 gammafunk: tengu do have their flight described in a unique way in the list of statuses, iirc 18:02:04 hrm 18:02:28 PleasingFungus: of course. The posting is miles off, imo, but as I said: don't think he's trolling or anything, just has a very warped view on what's going on 18:02:40 yeah I don't think he's being intentionally dishonest or anything 18:02:44 elliptic: they do, but it doesn't seem to mention the EV 18:02:48