00:00:27 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03:20 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:32 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2899-g175aae5 (34) 00:12:58 -!- Nstar|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:14:56 -!- Basil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:22:06 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:58 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:23:32 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:23 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 00:28:42 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2888-g61d0ccb (34) 00:29:01 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:04 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:29:13 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:13 spellforged servitor 00:32:39 that one basically feels like battlesphere++ 00:35:28 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:39 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:44 i like how the spell mimic idea keeps coming back 00:38:37 -!- rast-- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:39:31 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:00 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:41:58 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:01 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:27 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:17 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:24 -!- tw has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:51:01 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:54:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:35 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:54:36 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:57:29 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:59:32 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:21 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:07 simmarine: Well, spellforged servitor even predates original battlesphere, I think 01:07:35 (I honestly cannot remember for certain, but some of the code was before I had commit rights) 01:07:41 when will spellforged servitors be reduced to casting a generic iron shot ability :P 01:08:12 Hahaha 01:08:15 I should hope never! 01:08:20 too bad the spell copying doesnt seem to be very clean in crawl, i was happy to see battlesphere and the original spell mimic before both were changed 01:08:35 I think it works a bit better here in some ways, in terms of balancing power level 01:08:45 And also not needing to worry about what can be properly mimiced and what can't 01:08:56 Since servitor will just assemble the best list and you don't need to worry about individual actions 01:09:02 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:11 yes, its neat how its actually a monster and doesnt have to worry about attacking when you do 01:11:57 I actually did experiment with letting it cast storm spells, out of curiousity, but it is rather good at hitting you with them :P 01:15:03 -!- eb_ has quit [] 01:17:14 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:42 ??spellforged servitor 01:17:43 I don't have a page labeled spellforged_servitor in my learndb. 01:17:51 %git :/spellforged 01:17:51 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2852-gd68d8c1: An attempt at some AI improvements for spellforged servitors 10(4 days ago, 3 files, 46+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d68d8c17a776 01:19:43 I have drank so very very many potions of strong poison on this branch now :P 01:21:08 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:56 1learn DracoOmega 01:24:51 DracoOmega: you can't fire through a servitor? 01:24:58 No, it's a normal creature 01:25:10 seems like that would be more desirable though 01:25:24 I mean, it has good magical resists, so you could fire some things through it like you can with zombies and such 01:25:44 I guess I was hesitant to add that property to a 'normal' creature, unlike battlespheres 01:26:06 heh, and spectral weapons and grand avatars... 01:26:34 not sure if sw can be fired through, but I know the players conjurations don't hurt them 01:26:38 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:05 Oh, I don't think I knew that myself 01:28:26 The think the servitor AI will make them less obtrusive in normal practice, but I haven't yet seen them used a lot 01:28:39 And that time only by someone who was MOSTLY just a summoner and thus wasn't shooting a lot anyway 01:29:07 yeah, sounds like it will help; I noticed them rushing in and getting killed easilly, which the second change will help with 01:29:24 yeah, fwiw, you can fire through spectral weapons as well 01:29:38 oh, well 01:29:42 I need to try with iron shot 01:29:53 -!- jameyd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:29:59 yeah, that works too 01:30:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:31:13 DracoOmega: yeah, I wonder if it wouldn't simplify things a lot to make them into full "avatars" 01:31:32 battlesphere is quite good at not getting in the player's way since it can't be fired through 01:32:10 Well, keep in mind that something you could fire through which is actually DURABLE is pretty good defensively. Which might not be out of the question for a level 7 dual-school spell to be able to do, but is definitely a non-trivial benefit of this 01:32:20 Battlesphere mostly just dies immediately if you try this 01:33:32 yes, this is true; I even use battlesphere for blocking projectiles this way 01:33:58 Servitor can actually take some punishment, though 01:35:15 it's kind of the original vision of battlesphere (whoever came up with the idea), but battlesphere was to be lower-level, so replicating the player's conj was too powerful 01:36:20 Hehe 01:36:24 Battlesphere is my doing too :P 01:36:27 this spell also isn't tied to the player's actions like the other avatars, which helps balance it 01:36:45 right, was thinking it was; did you do the implementation? 01:36:48 Yes 01:36:53 I know lainiw (sp?) did spectral weapon 01:37:05 Both the original mirroring and current non-mirroring one 01:37:21 So I was actually the one who decided to make it non-mirroring in the first place :P 01:37:44 hence spellforged servitor 01:38:24 so not tying it to the players actions is probably for the best in terms of balance? 01:38:41 Well, I think there's some of that, and also some of it being much higher levels. But balance isn't the only problem with mirroring 01:38:44 helps to differentiate it, for one 01:38:55 One big problem is that the player might not know which actions can be mirrored or not 01:39:05 So you cast spell X and the battlesphere mirrors it, and spell Y and it does nothing 01:39:18 yeah right, since it only has a subset of the players spells 01:39:23 This was especially problematic in the starter book given that it couldn't replicate a lot of the conjurer spells 01:39:28 No dazzling spray, no prism 01:39:44 hrm, I guess it could use whatever it has (e.g. you cast fire storm, it casts lcs) 01:39:44 So basically it could mirror magic dart (useless) or IMB 01:40:04 but of course right there in that example there's a problem since different ranges 01:40:26 Well, the thing is with servitor you don't really need to worry about making sure your actions 'count' for it 01:40:45 Since it will use the best stuff of what you have, in general, without you needing to know what works or not 01:41:06 And PROBABLY you don't have fire storm without also having some of bolt of fire and fireball or poison arrow or SOMETHING 01:41:29 It seems very unlikely in a real game 01:42:01 So my hope is that from the player's perspective, the spell 'just works' 01:42:07 They don't need to think about HOW it arrived at its spellset 01:42:07 yeah, no, I like the "it copies a limited set of your spells" mechanic a lot 01:42:26 I was more wondering if it could mirror your casts even if it used a different spell 01:42:55 or if that would even be desirable 01:42:56 I sort of rather it be more independant, since we already have a pretty iconic mirroring thing that gets a lot of use 01:43:03 yeah 01:43:29 it's pretty close to battlesphere in level, even 01:43:42 so making it mirror would make it even "closer" 01:44:01 well it's a nice change of pace from usual summons anyhow 01:44:04 I'm not sure I'd call a level 7 summ/conj that close to a level 5 charm/conj 01:44:18 Also, blast the useless crash logs on windows -.- 01:44:49 I am getting unasserted crashes SOMETIMES when I approach death from poison in this branch and I'm not fully sure why. I suspect it's the bar drawing code, but it would be nice to know 01:45:57 It only happens SOMETIMES, though 01:46:05 charms are usually trained, yes, but both are two-school and not terribly far in level; anyhow I agree it's probably better that SFS doesn't do battlesphere mirroring 01:46:37 BATTLEMIRROR 01:46:54 put it in the book of CASTER 01:47:37 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:47:40 I'm beginning to wonder if that's even where the issue is, though 01:47:57 I suppose I could disable the draw code and see if it still happens 01:48:17 you can't trigger it reliably (and hence backtrace through gdb)? 01:48:38 oh, but windows 01:48:49 No stack traces in windows crash dumps, yes 01:48:49 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:51 Which is annoying 01:49:17 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 01:49:24 but there's a debugger? 01:49:34 I, uh... don't have a functional one set up for this environment, no >.> 01:49:40 aha :) 01:49:48 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 01:50:06 Still, just having the crash dumps give a stack trace would solve like 90% of the problems I've had with this kind of thing :P 01:50:23 yeah I haven't needed gdb too much aside from a backtrace 01:50:32 but there have been a few nasty instances anyhow 01:50:41 where actual debugging was helpful 01:50:55 I got used to throwing in lots of on-topic mprfs everywhere >.>; 01:50:58 Terribly crude, I know 01:51:07 we've all done that 01:51:13 then you forget to remove them... 01:51:20 Haha. I'm not sure I've done that! 01:51:32 I always stage things using add --patch so I can double-check everything I add 01:51:56 yeah, this is more in my code that doesn't go in a repo 01:51:57 (Especially since I often have parts of like 4 seperate commits being worked on at once and need to stage them seperately) 01:52:06 and ones I miss are like some silly one char print 01:52:31 "where is this single 1 getting printed..." 01:53:29 Dang, looks like it's not the draw code. Meaning I don't actually know where it is. I mean, the poison is capable of killing you properly a lot of the time. Just not sometimes. 01:56:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:01:22 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:01:39 Okay, it's uh... looks like it's crashing in ouch(). Except I haven't even changed anything there, or even the code that calls that bit. 02:03:55 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:04:51 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:57 -!- jeffro_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:20 Okay, a pattern. It seems to crash whenever you take exactly as much damage as you have remaining hp 02:06:44 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:13 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:32 -!- lion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:14:25 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:08 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:17 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2899-g175aae5 (34) 02:18:08 -!- sf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:19:58 -!- jeffro_ is now known as jeffro 02:19:59 -!- jeffro has quit [Changing host] 02:19:59 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:58 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:27:23 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:30:00 -!- DracheReborn has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:13 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:43 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:37 -!- rast- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:39:49 Oh, I think I have finally found it! 02:39:51 I hope 02:40:34 I think it's dividing by 0 when it tries to create your score file entry, when it tries to describe how bad your poison is (since it calculates the description as a factor of your hp) 02:45:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:46:04 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:12 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:37 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:52 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:04:29 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:41 -!- BobBarker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:08:33 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:37 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:18:53 %git 03:18:53 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-2899-g175aae5: Treat Dith's shadow creature wrath like Weave Shadows. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=175aae5ce838 03:25:46 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:27:26 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:08 -!- Guest65903 is now known as root_ 03:30:12 -!- root_ is now known as SoulOfTheInterne 03:30:16 -!- SoulOfTheInterne is now known as ToBeFree 03:30:18 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:02 -!- wat2 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:34 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:56:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:00:52 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:06:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:25 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:20 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:36:00 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:37 -!- rast-- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:39:13 -!- DeathrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:43:29 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:58 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:50 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 04:48:25 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:56:09 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:57:15 -!- Nstar|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:08 -!- Bovinius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:49 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:25 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:26 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:23:09 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:46 -!- Fengor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:28:58 -!- asdfe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:48:29 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 05:50:32 -!- Nstar has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:13:58 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:27:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:58 -!- asdfe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:29:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:36:11 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:37 -!- rast- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:55:27 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:09 -!- joalland has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:13 -!- Grujah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:02:50 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:05:21 -!- Pacra has left ##crawl-dev 07:05:21 -!- Pacra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:53 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Client Quit] 07:16:03 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:22:18 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:40 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:01 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:36:59 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 07:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:29 Akrius (L7 VSAs) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:4) 07:41:30 ezyang (L13 SpEn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:15) 07:45:47 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:52:11 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:04 ...so thought of the day before I leave for the day: 07:56:06 necromancer (16@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 28-53 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(53) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 614 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), agony, animate dead, simulacrum / b.fire (3d18), agony, invisibility, animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 07:56:06 %??necromancer 07:56:10 Josephine (16@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 69 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 11 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 989 | Sp: b.cold (3d17), agony, animate dead, simulacrum | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 07:56:10 %??josephine 07:56:14 ...??????? 07:56:32 Well, she shows up much earlier, no? 07:56:46 Isn't Erolcha an ogre mage with less HD? 07:56:49 Erolcha (12O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 54 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(56) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 740 | Sp: b.venom (3d11), mystic blast (3d12), invisibility, confuse, slow, 04esc:teleport self / crystal spear (3d23), blink, b.fire (3d14), b.cold (3d14), 04esc:minor healing (2d3) / magic dart (3d4), paralyse, haste, b.lightning (3d14), confuse, 04esc:teleport self / paralyse, throw flame (3d6), invisibility, teleport other, fireball (3d14) / stone arrow (3d12), sting (d8), blink, b.lightning (3d14), banishment, 04esc:minor healing (2d3) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 07:56:49 %??erolcha 07:56:51 ogre mage (06O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 38-71 | AC/EV: 1/7 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 924 | Sp: haste other, crystal spear (3d28), blink, b.fire (3d18), b.cold (3d18), 04esc:minor healing (2d5) / haste other, mystic blast (3d15), invisibility, confuse, slow, 04esc:teleport self / haste other, paralyse, haste, b.lightning (3d17), confuse, 04esc:teleport self / haste other, sting (d10), blink, b.lightning (3d17), banishment, 04esc:minor healing (2d5) / haste other, throw flame (3d8), invisibility, teleport other, fireball (3d19) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 07:56:51 %??ogre mage 07:58:08 At least that's what I figured was up with it 08:00:45 Haha, I keep trying to recompile when I change this lua 08:00:57 (Also: blast you lua T.T) 08:08:15 I don't suppose anyone is around who can explain why printing messages normally interupts resting on its own, but sometimes doesn't (and somehow lua code can even control this, via runrest_ignore settings and so on). I'm having trouble even finding the place that would say to interrupt things, but I'm sure I'm not looking in the right location. 08:10:02 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:36 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: mpr_check_patterns maybe? seems like it ignores MSGCH_EQUIPMENT and MSGCH_DIAGNOSTICS? 08:11:48 Oh, that's something 08:11:51 <|amethyst> but I'm not really clear what happens after that, in interrupt_activity and its callees 08:12:20 Yeah, it does arcane lua stuff as some points, too 08:12:24 Which I only vaguely understand 08:12:41 Also, does message handling code REALLY also have a chance at waking the player up? 08:12:52 That seems a really bad place for that to happen 08:13:12 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: only MSGCH_SOUND it looks like? 08:13:25 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:25 Yes, but surely that looks off to you? 08:13:36 If something was supposed to make noise, wouldn't it call noise()? 08:13:37 -!- ApsychicRat has quit [Client Quit] 08:14:07 <|amethyst> that's a lot of calls to noise() to add :) 08:14:21 Well, mostly I think that check can just go away 08:14:35 <|amethyst> yeah, I was going to say, I'm not entirely convinced it is important 08:14:39 Since the player almost never goes to sleep, and the odds of some message being printed immediately to wake them up seem remote 08:14:53 But I just sort of shudder that message-handling code has game logic code hidden in it, to be honest >.> 08:16:34 I have sort of co-opted current runrest_ignore_poison to work with newpoison, with different meanings for the arguments, but this does nothing about it not interrupting on low hitpoint warnings 08:16:48 And I'm not sure how to handle that even code-wise, since merely printing the message interrupts 08:17:00 (So I'm not sure how runrest_ignore makes things not interrupt either) 08:17:13 <|amethyst> BTW, that line has been there ever since the player became sleepable 08:17:16 <|amethyst> %git c7ab36b8 08:17:16 07greensnark02 * 0.4-a0-165-gc7ab36b: Ghosts can use ensorcelled hibernation. Breaks saves, needs some work on PC sleep and wake-up correctness. 10(6 years ago, 12 files, 121+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7ab36b8b51c 08:18:07 <|amethyst> One reason not to replace with noisy() at the call sites is that can wake up monsters 08:19:03 Yes 08:19:10 Like I said, I think it's a really minor effect that can just go away 08:20:13 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:46 Really, probably the 'proper' thing to do is somehow intercept DET_HP_WARNING but I'm not sure how one does this 08:25:21 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:02 Maybe elliptic would know, given his lua botting experience 08:33:11 <|amethyst> Grunt worked on delay code a bit with his abortive implementation of fine-grained wait 08:35:01 <|amethyst> and MarvinPA made armour swapping interruptable 08:35:06 <|amethyst> so might be another person to talk to 08:35:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:27 <|amethyst> Galehar has also worked on delay/interrupt code it looks like? 08:36:28 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:35 <|amethyst> I'm looking at git log delay.cc 08:37:58 I would just remove the code that tries to wake up players on MSGCH_SOUND 08:37:58 greensnark: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:38:37 -!- rast-- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:38:48 Probably I will push this to a branch shortly 08:39:00 Once I figure out one or two last things on this other commit here 08:39:14 And then maybe someone else can take a stab at getting the interruptions to work properly for it? 08:39:50 Since a lot of the point of deterministic poison is lost if you can't smoothly 5 off known-safe poison 08:39:56 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:47:13 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:49:34 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:03 Well, work-in-progress incoming 08:56:49 New branch created: deterministic_poison (12 commits) 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2900-g1d48909: A first pass at deterministic player poison 10(5 hours ago, 5 files, 74+ 60-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d48909c9fe3 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2901-g3282c97: Revamp / simplify monster melee poison application 10(5 hours ago, 6 files, 41+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3282c97e6650 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2902-gee5f99d: Display the poisoned portion of a player's HP in their health bar 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 18+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee5f99dba0d1 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2903-g54cb91a: Adjust BEAM_POISON and BEAM_POISON_ARROW player poisoning for new system 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54cb91a1463c 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2904-gf906fcc: Convert various other sources of player poison to the new system 10(5 hours ago, 8 files, 15+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f906fcc98fac 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2905-ga2a1db5: Convert Cure Poison and OTR to the new system 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 10+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a2a1db58f07b 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2906-gb8180df: Adjust damage from venom weapons (mainly versus players for now) 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b8180df340b8 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2907-g44ffa4b: Remove the various stat-drain poisons 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 4+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=44ffa4befae0 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2908-g1105223: Adjust some monsters to account for lost differentiation of poison strength 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=110522360483 08:56:53 03DracoOmega02 07[deterministic_poison] * 0.14-a0-2909-g825e771: Adjust Deep Dwarves' interaction with poison damage 10(82 minutes ago, 2 files, 21+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=825e7717b684 08:56:53 ... and 2 more commits 08:58:24 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:41 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:32 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:55 On a completely unrelated topic, I find this PuTTY behavior really bizzare. It's like both CSZO and CAO menus have stopped responding to all keyboard input, but I can still type the username to log into them in the first place, so it's not COMPLETELY ignoring keyboard input. 09:03:01 But restarting putty does nothing 09:03:08 And so I'm stuck at the intro menu 09:03:22 <|amethyst> hmm 09:03:32 <|amethyst> oh 09:03:36 <|amethyst> W is stuck on cszo 09:03:50 <|amethyst> and CAO 09:04:03 All the menu items seem to be for me 09:04:12 <|amethyst> did you try W first? 09:04:18 Um, probably 09:04:18 <|amethyst> if so you'll have to reconnect 09:04:25 <|amethyst> it hangs 09:04:39 <|amethyst> let's see 09:05:00 Okay, yeah l worked if I didn't pretty w first 09:05:48 <|amethyst> okay, I think I have an idea 09:06:25 how much information about this new stuff is displayed in the status bar? 09:07:18 The poison stuff? 09:07:26 yes 09:07:29 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: okay, fixed 09:07:38 Well, your hp bar is colored to indicate the poisoned portion, and there's still a poison status light, itself colored based on the severity releative to your current hp 09:07:50 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: something weird happened with the dgamelaunch shared memory segment 09:08:09 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: not sure what, but ipcrm -M fixed it (by making new processes get a new segment) 09:08:21 I'm just sort of laughing that it really wasn't on my end 09:08:35 I assumed that if CAO also had the same problem, it couldn't be on the remote end 09:08:39 <|amethyst> I should forward-port our stuff to latest dgl at some point 09:08:45 okay so there's no numbers presented even if you could figure it out by doing maths? 09:09:19 No specific numbers. I guess the math could probably only be approximate, too? Like, to within a small margin, since the scale on the bar is somewhat coarse 09:09:36 <|amethyst> I think if you show player HP total and show the percentage, there's no reason not to make the numbers available 09:09:50 <|amethyst> the margin could matter if it would leave you at 1 HP 09:10:27 if you don't tell the player how much damage it's going to do exactly then it doesnt feel from a player standpoint like it's actually deterministic 09:11:20 Well, isn't it enough to have a very close estimate? 09:11:29 would still feel like it's a bit random 09:11:52 Well, the amount that is applied on each hit is somewhat random anyway. The bigger point, I thought, was to reduce variance and facilitate easy resting 09:11:52 if the point of this is to make it actually deterministic and feel like it is then you should tell the player exactly how much damage the poison deals 09:12:04 maybe that's not the point and the name of the branch just confuses me 09:12:26 <|amethyst> Deterministic poison is not the goal, but the means of reaching that goal 09:13:04 (personally I don't care much either way since to me as a player this isnt really an improvement since I think just-damage poison is a thing that shouldnt be in crawl regardless, just pointing out an observation) 09:15:37 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:25 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:38 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:34 -!- gnum has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:15 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29:29 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:57 !tell Grunt On josephine: I suggested forever ago she could get Ghostly Fireball to differntate her, it was rejected at the time because Ghostly Fireball was exculsively a revenant thing, but now Makhelb can us it... 09:31:57 reaverb: OK, I'll let grunt know. 09:32:26 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:24 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:34 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:08 -!- FS_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:49:59 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:43 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:54 -!- giovform has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:55:37 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:44 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:35 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 10:15:40 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:33 -!- asdfe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:20 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:40 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:42:05 -!- culcube has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:36 !messages 10:43:36 No messages for TZer0. 10:44:04 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:45:42 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:38 -!- Mad_Wack is now known as Mad_Wack_Away 11:06:27 -!- yokelz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:44 -!- Mad_Wack_Away is now known as Mad_Wack 11:07:02 hello, trying to play trunk on console on CLAN just gives this error message: 11:07:06 ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 134: Can't bind the webtiles socket! 11:07:30 doesn't matter if I have a game running or not, or if I'm logged in or out of webtiles at the moment 11:08:25 wonder if it's out of date (console was updated a couple weeks back to allow e.g. commenting from webtiles to a console player, IIRC) 11:08:43 this may have required some infrastructure changes to go with the code 11:09:54 <|amethyst> I don't think so 11:10:10 <|amethyst> I don't know what causes it, but removing the socket works 11:10:25 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:27 <|amethyst> I think it has to do with some of the changes related to games ending early 11:11:00 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 probably just removing yokelz's socket from the webserver/sockets/ directory will fix it 11:11:01 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 11:11:55 <|amethyst> Medar: any idea about these. It looks like sometimes the socket file is left (even with nothing using it?), and that causes new games to fail with 'Can't bind the webtiles socket' 11:12:37 <|amethyst> Medar: is it some new condition the dgl launcher has to handle? Started a month or two ago maybe? 11:12:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:38 I don't think it's that old issue 11:14:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:00 !seen grunt 11:15:00 I last saw Grunt at Sat Mar 1 13:56:14 2014 UTC (3h 18m 46s ago) saying '...???????' on ##crawl-dev. 11:15:25 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:03 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:23 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:57 !messages 11:21:58 (1/3) |amethyst said (13m 28s ago): yokelz is having problems 11:21:59 k. 11:22:01 !messages 11:22:02 (1/2) yokelz said (11m 53s ago): I can play fine on webtiles (my preferred method) don't go killing my games or anything pleaase 11:22:03 !messages 11:22:03 (1/1) |amethyst said (11m 3s ago): probably just removing yokelz's socket from the webserver/sockets/ directory will fix it 11:24:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:20 !tell yokelz there was a process of yours eating the CPU of the server constantly for over a minute while I was watching 11:26:21 TZer0: OK, I'll let yokelz know. 11:27:44 !tell yokelz I think it should be fixed now, sorry for the inconvenience. 11:27:44 TZer0: OK, I'll let yokelz know. 11:27:50 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:08 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:28:51 oh hey, I have more zombies running around on my server 11:29:00 Random suggestion to tell players how far they're off to casting spells currently at 100% failure: we could print something like "You would need to rings of wizardry to have less than 50% failure chance." 11:29:14 damn 11:29:15 hiya dpeg 11:29:28 "You would need *three* rings of wizardry..." 11:29:30 Hi! 11:30:40 !tell yokelz speaking of which, you have another zombie running on my server D: 11:30:40 TZer0: OK, I'll let yokelz know. 11:31:00 so.. uhhh.. I have 4 zombies on my server 11:31:03 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:23 what should I do about this? 11:32:34 yokelz: are you here 11:32:36 ? 11:35:42 yes 11:35:42 yokelz: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:35:58 Are you playing on CLAN right now? 11:36:02 Because you have once again a zombie... 11:36:14 I have a game saved there yeah 11:36:25 but you're not playing *right* now? 11:36:27 no 11:36:31 okay, I'll kill it then 11:38:38 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:29 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:47:29 dpeg: I'm not a fan of this idea. It seems like a lot of information that's often going to be not at all helpful, or even bizarre for new players who haven't ever seen a wizardry item. 11:47:57 Also it would put a very unique emphasis on wizardry which other items do not have 11:48:01 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49:17 dpeg: "100% failure" is usually enough information how far one is away from casting the spell 11:50:55 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:10 I am saying this because we had this brief moment when we listed failure chances higher than 100%. 11:52:56 right, give players some numbers and they'll want more and more, even if those don't mean anything 11:53:06 This was considered confusing, so I tried to find something less confusing. How many rings of wizardry you'd have to wear might work. I wouldn't print this as a message, but in the spell description (so you really have to look for it). Anyway, no big deal. 11:54:14 well it would be lying since wizardry doesnt work that way 11:54:21 unless you change how wizardry works :p 11:54:34 while i agree that swapping equipment just to compare failure % or spellpower is a bit awkward, it's still better than giving irrelevant numbers and information 11:55:16 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2900-gbed8625: Five swamp vaults (Cheibrodos, #8048) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 132+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bed8625043c8 11:55:16 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2901-g784a1df: Wake up wizlab_wucad's monks 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=784a1dface71 11:55:23 brogue does a great job of presenting information like this. "The foobaz will heal you for bar% of your health. If you enchant it, it will heal you for BAR% of your health." 11:55:36 crate: it's actually been changed somewhat recently 11:55:48 yeah i saw the staff/ring got made the same 11:55:52 i dont remember if that changed how it stacked 11:55:57 or eliminated the cap 11:56:00 crate: yes, doesn't stack right now? 11:56:15 I actually don't like those sort of messages in brogue at all 11:56:33 bh: Brogue has a much easier time at this, because it was designed with this amount of clarity in mind. 11:57:08 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2899-g175aae5 (34) 11:57:14 mmm, good timing 11:57:26 let's start with greatly simplifying stuff for clarity before copying over brogue-style messages then? 11:58:40 only one kind of weapon enchantment, only three levels of that, only three or four weapons per skill, only three or four monster speed values, all monsters act at speed 10, should i continue :o 11:58:43 ChrisOelmueller: it's hopeless 11:58:53 for example, Brogue has intentionally few methods of attacking 11:59:03 also, I don't think this is what we want 11:59:23 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:01 i think all of what i listed above would be an improvement to current crawl both in terms of gameplay and clarity 12:00:43 -!- Jinxed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:00:52 i had a discussion in here a while ago about all monsters acting at speed 10 12:00:54 dpeg: some day crawl will be brogue with gods ;;) 12:00:59 i dont think that one is happening 12:01:15 unfortunately i'm deriving stuff like "everybody moves at speed 10" and "there is no unlimited haste available" (i.e. remove spell and wand) and that's hopeless to try and get into dev minds, yeah 12:01:54 but that's also not the topic, so let's instead find out why players think failure percentages 90 and 100 are any different 12:02:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:03:00 <|amethyst> 90 means you're closer to making it work than 100 12:03:09 crate: doesn't mean you can't keep trying to do the right thing 12:03:13 <|amethyst> The idea is to show a sense of progress even if they can't cast it yet 12:03:27 90 is "can't cast it yet" just as much, is my point 12:03:49 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: but getting from 90 to 10 or 0 or whatever is faster than getting from 100 to 10 or 0 or whatever 12:04:04 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:32 not sure what to answer there 12:05:13 how about disallowing spells unless below 50% then, that sounds like a better thing than listing semantically weird percentages that are larger than 100 12:05:32 <|amethyst> ... 12:05:53 casting spells at 50% fail with sif is a thing that is worth doing sometimes 12:06:02 but i assume you are making a point instead of making an actual suggestion 12:06:28 -!- dwarj has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:02 <|amethyst> How about we just make it say "you can cast this spell" or "you can't cast this spell" 12:07:08 right, even if it doesn't sound that bad in retrospect 12:07:11 <|amethyst> and give you a message when it turns on 12:07:32 <|amethyst> then if you want to know how far away you are from having it usable, you train until you have it usable 12:07:46 <|amethyst> While we're at it, we can make weapons not work until you have them down to 120 or lower delay 12:08:07 The question is that seeing 100% all the time while boosting magic skills and Int does not give you any sense of progress. 12:08:08 <|amethyst> and remove the in-game indications of weapon speed 12:08:14 s/question/problem/ 12:08:20 <|amethyst> dpeg: Don't you understand, that's not important 12:08:26 <|amethyst> what's important is to make ChrisOelmueller happy 12:08:27 while i'm sure you don't mean it like that, those all sound good 12:08:29 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:08:34 In terms of useless >100% failure rates, I do feel like mentioning that a lot of people don't realize that the long period stuck at 100% when training in heavy armour will start to reduce considerably more quickly past a certain point 12:08:37 -!- phyphor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:49 DracoOmega: any idea how to convey that? 12:08:52 Since, again, there is no visible sign of progress until progress starts to come much more quickly 12:08:57 this is a problem with dodging also btw 12:09:03 Yes, that is also true 12:09:04 in heavy armour 12:09:22 Though that feels somewhat harder to convey since there isn't anywhere to look it up 12:09:31 i'm not trying to make myself happy with suggesting that certain bad things that i'm unlikely to do myself should not be allowed generally, because they are in fact a bad idea 12:09:47 But it does definitely give the impression that dodging will continue to be as useless as it is at low levels 12:09:58 sorry if it came across like that, unsure as to how it happened though 12:10:53 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:12:13 whatever, it was just an idea (there is an obvious advantage of using in-game stuff to express information than numbers) 12:12:24 * dpeg turns to Lego with the kids 12:12:47 what if a line was appended to heavy armour descriptions, "one needs immense skill to effectively dodge in this armour" 12:13:42 i think the problem is that it is weird that dodging just suddenly "turns on" in heavy armour 12:13:54 would it be more helpful to give an additional failure percentage for if you'd be wearing robe (i.e. replacing the wizardry in what dpeg suggested with a "regardless of body armor" line) 12:15:15 that's both not assuming you have access to certain items and should ideally give non-guaranteed-fail numbers with a progression 12:15:25 crate: That is a fair point, really 12:15:33 It is not intuitive behavior at all 12:17:01 I would not think it a bad move to improve heavy armour by making it somewhat easier to dodge in it earlier 12:17:10 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:17:12 especially if it clarifies things at the same time 12:17:18 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:23 I actually think I myself assumed it did nothing useful after training a number of levels and seeing no real effect in it 12:18:31 Until later observing people somehow getting good EV in heavy armour 12:18:39 Quite a while ago now, but still 12:20:03 as with many hard breakpoints, just listing them somewhere with a short explanation could do much already 12:22:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:01 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:09 -!- jmbto has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:53 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:28 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:53 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:48 bh: I'm at work - won't be back for 5-6 hours. 12:38:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2902-gd7b41bb: Let always_corpse work for mutagenic creatures. 10(72 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7b41bbef63f 12:38:31 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:34 The work hits Grunt! Ouch, that really hurt! 12:39:22 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:44 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:45:41 it appears that the ability to use scrolls on themselves has been reintroduced. why is this? 12:45:56 I'm going to guess it was unintentional 12:46:27 But beyond this it's news to me 12:50:28 someone was complaining in ##crawl last night that you couldn't use ?id on itself, when it hasn't actually self-id-d at that point (all you know is it's targeted, and in fact it can fail to id if you use it on something you've already fully identified) 12:50:39 possibly related 12:51:53 the solution is to clearly have them just auto-id after use 12:55:20 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:50 -!- Watball has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:27 -!- lobeless has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:05 ?id on use, the others after use 13:01:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:03:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:06:35 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:32 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:32 geekosaur: then have identify identify itself if you happen to use it with no other unidentified items in your inventory 13:15:44 geekosaur: instead of fooling people into wasting scrolls 13:16:12 * geekosaur doesn't much care, was just mentioning a discussion that filled ##crawl last night 13:19:19 -!- BobBarker has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:20 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:21 -!- culcube is now known as phyphor 13:34:09 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:38 -!- jmbto has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:40:50 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:45 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:39 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:45:39 -!- vvv is now known as Guest81548 13:45:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:21 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:08 -!- aa__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:58 !tell |amethyst: I have some smithgod patches for you http://sprunge.us/NFYF 13:49:59 buppy: OK, I'll let |amethyst: know. 13:51:59 also there's a silly patch in there that adds lava djinn 13:52:25 -!- Guest81548 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:52:57 !messages 13:52:58 No messages for TZer0. 13:57:22 this page is really useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type 14:01:02 -!- floatboth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:02 -!- _maniac_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:38 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:13 -!- sandrahh has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:42 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:10 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:08:01 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:04 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:14 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 14:09:50 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:05 -!- Hailey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:49 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:19 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:21:50 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:30 So recently I've been bored by FE startng kit, I feel like it's too homogenous (it doesn't feel like there's much impetus to branch out to different types of strategies) I was thinking that something like LO's heat aura would make a nice fire spell to throw into the FE starting kit as a replacement for throw flame, so the starting kit gives you a viable up-close-and-personal sort of attack strategy, with no long-ranged attack spell 14:24:18 flame tongue starts with a short range and sticky flame is a (very strong) melee spell, plus the general focus of the class is supposed to be long-ranged conjurations 14:25:22 i don't think i have learned throw flame on a single FE the past 12 months 14:25:43 It's a pretty boring spell :) 14:25:47 yeah its pretty mediocre. i dont want to see it replaced with a melee spell though 14:26:04 at low level, thats more of an ice elementalist thing 14:26:04 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:26:43 <|amethyst> how about replace throw flame instead 14:27:29 that's what the discussion is about yeah 14:27:38 <|amethyst> oh 14:27:40 Perhaps some sort of defensive charm 14:28:01 <|amethyst> sorry, missed Chris's comment, thought we were talking about removing Flame Tongue 14:28:02 flame shield! 14:28:02 I really think FE should keep its offensive focus too 14:28:07 imo throw flame is pretty good 14:28:10 i use it a ton 14:28:15 i cant understand skipping it 14:28:19 <|amethyst> smite-targeted L2 flame tongue? 14:28:27 It's not bad, it's just IMHO boring. 14:28:34 It's useful enough. 14:28:35 fire magic is designed to generally be long ranged, damaging, but not terribly versatile compared to ice, air 14:28:47 and a low level defensive buff would mess that up 14:28:50 long ranged? half the starting FE book has awful range 14:28:51 :p 14:29:07 (flame tongue gets less awful eventually but by that time you're not using it any more) 14:29:39 what about some auto-retaliating flame shield? :P 14:29:43 I was thinking along the lines of something that would open up some flexibility there. 14:29:46 yeah but you eventually get stuff like bolt of fire and some nice aoe spells 14:29:47 which lasts N attacks 14:30:00 Well, EM, that's not in the starting kit at all. 14:30:06 <|amethyst> L2 summon fire vortex 14:30:28 You may never get bolt of fire as a FE 14:30:34 I'm with evilmike, the total offensive focus is a pretty unique feature of the book imo 14:30:49 <|amethyst> it does have one defensive spell anyway 14:30:56 Yes, Conjure flame. 14:30:57 <|amethyst> well, sometimes defensive 14:31:02 i just dont think flexibility is a good thing for this starting kit. its "pure offense" aside from conjure flame, which itself is good at killing stuff 14:31:03 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:04 i think the defensive spell in the FE book is my least favourite part of it :p 14:32:18 I just find that with a FE starting kit, there's very little interesting wiggle room. Perhaps that's a feature of all out offense, I was just trying to think of a way we could add some variety in how I play FE's. 14:33:01 (Hence my suggestion of a heat aura of some sort) but I get the replacement of the one early ranged threat that FE have with a melee spell might be too large of a shift. 14:33:23 try ice elementalist, its meant to be more hybrid-y 14:33:36 Well, yes, I can play other starting kits, and I do. 14:33:56 And nearly all of them have a few different ways I can play them effectively. 14:34:05 I just find FE more limiting. 14:34:09 well you're basically doing the equivalent of "i want to shoot things so fighter should have a bow" 14:34:20 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:24 FE is about conjuring fire to kill things 14:35:21 Well, sure, and I don't propose we change that, but something about FE just makes levels 1-5 seem thoroughly homogonous to me. 14:36:23 I can play a FE starting kit with any race and it feels like I'm playing the same character. Which is ok, not awful. but I feel like I get more variety out of most other starting kits. 14:36:43 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:08 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:37 I actually like flame tongue in comparison to the other lvl1 starting spells, it feels distinct and like it's distinct, throw flame is effective, but not interesting. What if throw flame was an enchatment which gave you a quiver full of "flame" that you could fling at stuff (A bit along the lines of how Portal Projectile was changed?) 14:39:41 levels 1-5 is a pretty short span to be hoping for much differentiation (consider the same range for VM, Tm, Su proably) 14:41:08 Honestly by level 5 I've got a fairly distinct character with most backgrounds, maybe by level 7. By level 7-8 I've pretty much gotten full use out of my starting kit and have moved on to adapting to whatever the RNG has started to provide. 14:41:12 Though "FE is too limited a start" and "throw flame is a bad spell" are two separate issues 14:41:14 how about putting ignite poison in the FE book? 14:42:11 buppy; I don't particularly like that. IP is overpowered where it's useful, and not at all where it's not, and fireball is a much better general use spell at the level 5 slot. 14:42:53 -!- jmbto has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:20 Alright so let's look at "throw flame is a bad spell" (Which I don't entirely agree with, I think it's alright, but not great) 14:43:31 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:16 <|amethyst> make searing ray Fire/Conj 14:44:19 What do you think of throw flame as a "give me a quiver full of flaming balls that I can literally throw at stuff"? 14:44:46 a fire searing ray sounds good 14:45:41 [at some point somebody needs to fix searing ray interface before using this in more places] 14:45:48 <|amethyst> Keanan1: literal throwing would depend on throwing skill, which might not be desirable 14:45:58 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:46:01 <|amethyst> either would depend on, or would be expected by players to depend on 14:46:49 throwing stuff doesn't actually depend much on throwing skill, does it? 14:47:02 Eh, throwing things at level 2 with 0 throwing skill is fine (I do it all the time and it's highly effective) accuracy dependant on spell skill wouldn't be hard to include in the spell description if it's decided that's the way to go. 14:47:10 please don't make it use throwing 14:47:15 we already did this with evap and it was dumb 14:47:40 conj spells never use throw, that's just how it works; if we want to add a 'create an item that you throw' spell it should be in summ 14:47:56 Well, no-one said it was conj/fire. 14:48:51 <|amethyst> I think an activated ability like delayed fireball might be better than actual throwing 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2785-g8ded313: Possibly fix a crash with igni flame weapons. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ded313f8e58 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2786-g2d9f3e2: Improve message of Igni's passive weapon burning. 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d9f3e280a24 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2787-g6d47d92: Improve Igni armour formula. 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 20+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6d47d9243039 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2788-g4f22c7e: Fix artefactize's handling of brands. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 23+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f22c7e679f3 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2789-gdbfb2fb: Use ARRAYSZ in artactize weapon. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dbfb2fb54294 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2790-g298a0c2: Replace Igni description with bullet points. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=298a0c2309f4 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2791-g66b9a89: Increase Igni piety decay. 10(74 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=66b9a897b8a7 14:49:31 03pubby02 {|amethyst} 07[smithgod] * 0.14-a0-2792-g25e739b: New experimental species: Cherufe 10(2 hours ago, 14 files, 147+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=25e739b18733 14:49:32 <|amethyst> (with or without the "0 turn" aspect) 14:49:32 Interface wise I could see it going either way. 14:49:49 [also the question why throwing still exists as a skill is a good one and i'm not sure "blowguns" is a satisfying answer, it's not for me at least] 14:50:15 ChrisOelmueller: javelins, large rocks, etc. 14:50:16 I had in mind a duration-based thing which would let you fling fire for a while. 14:50:44 <|amethyst> Eronarn: need to be more dependent on throwing skill probably 14:50:50 none of those care about your throwing skill 14:51:02 they do, not tons, but they do. 14:51:18 Large rocks probably the least (because the base damage is so high) 14:51:53 Keanan1: i had the idea of a spell that summons orbs of fire that orbit you, that can be launched like mini-ioods 14:52:41 thanks for committing, |amethyst 14:52:42 Yeah, I was thinking more like you cast the spell, then get in throwing position with an empty hand and this globe of fire appears and you fling it at a critter. 14:52:53 Either concept works just fine. 14:52:56 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:13 Although mini iood sounds.. like a pain. 14:53:36 fire breath or fire gaze could also be better non-throwing 14:54:00 I don't want to think about iood targeting at that low of a level, nor was "slow moving projectile" what I had in mind. 14:54:05 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:17 i was thinking of that as more a ~L5 spell 14:55:01 Ah, and I was thinking specifically about a replacement for throw flame. 14:55:16 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 14:55:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:56 !tell MarvinPA could you look this patch over and commit it if you agree? http://sprunge.us/jRWF 14:55:56 buppy: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 14:56:29 Experimental (smithgod) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2792-g25e739b 14:57:52 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:46 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:47 buppy: Unless you use a minor version tag to remove the exoskeleton mutation from current Fo, which it doesn't appear you do in that patch, changing the mutation descprtion to read "buggy" seems bad to me. 15:01:40 <|amethyst> reaverb: doesn't use a tag but does remove it 15:01:43 <|amethyst> unconditionally 15:02:06 <|amethyst> I think you might need to do something to recalc HP too 15:02:13 <|amethyst> also, what if that would kill the player? 15:02:19 <|amethyst> because they're rotted to 1 or whatever 15:03:18 |amethyst: the mutation only provided AC+1. are you thinking of the older version which gave HP+5? 15:03:28 <|amethyst> oh, that already went away 15:03:30 <|amethyst> never mind me then 15:03:52 |amethyst: So removing mutations from the big case statement changes them even when old saves are used? That's good to know. 15:04:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:04:24 <|amethyst> reaverb: no, see the line in tags.cc 15:05:19 <|amethyst> reaverb: it explicitly sets their mutation levels to zero on game load 15:05:25 |amethsyt: oops, missed that. 15:06:38 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:49 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:07:46 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:14 probably a more pertinent discussion than throw flame being a problem spell is the state of bolt spells 15:08:18 i.e. they are all very similar 15:08:40 -!- KurzedMetal1 is now known as KurzedMetal 15:10:35 uh, what cost is there to use magma form on that experimental race 15:10:40 not only bolt spells but also bolt wands 15:11:14 Lightli: none but enjoy spontaneously exploding 15:11:32 that sounds like a drawback 15:11:51 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:57 it is, most of the time 15:14:01 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:45 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:49 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:54 -!- gustaf1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:07 -!- gustaf1 has left ##crawl-dev 15:26:06 -!- Bamboomancer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:26:07 -!- vulsuck has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:26:45 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:00 -!- Escalator has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 15:30:54 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:02 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 15:31:45 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:08 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:56 |amethyst: Can't really think of anything that would have changed about the socket handling. 15:35:29 |amethyst: I did move the closing if it later in the crash handler, to allow sending crash log name to the player. Maybe that's causing problems. 15:35:42 s/if/of/ 15:36:49 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:37:47 -!- Escalator has quit [Client Quit] 15:39:27 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:12 <|amethyst> Medar: hm, recursive crashes maybe? 15:51:51 Hmm, yeah, that would certainly skip tiles.shutdown() 15:52:17 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:56:21 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:59:34 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:32 in case it got lost, updated at http://bpaste.net/show/GfWRMXnKfnkiErLalaQw/ 16:06:39 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-2903-g0318f1a: Small update for vim syntax file 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0318f1a6649f 16:06:39 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-2904-g68cb470: Fix vault tag typo 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=68cb4700d77c 16:06:43 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: thanks 16:07:10 some vault shops still place rod of venom 16:07:22 sure, thanks for applying 16:07:42 i hope the next iteration finally catches all tags but it'll take a few more days or so 16:08:26 simmarine: yup, on it 16:08:26 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:08:45 no love for rod of warding though, not in any vaults :'( 16:09:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:48 <|amethyst> also the lugonu bribe 16:11:03 tenofswords: around? 16:12:10 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:49 I always liked finding a rod of warding....*sigh* 16:12:59 rip 16:12:59 rip 16:13:04 ty Sequell 16:14:11 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:25 rip 16:19:16 -!- Chris7 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:40 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:14 hm is or was there ever a no_dup tag? sprint_mu uses it all over the place but i can't find anything in the code or history referring to it? 16:25:14 -!- nubcakes has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:20 ??is_cdo_down 16:25:20 is cdo down[1/2]: Yes, a server move is underway. It will be back Real Soon Now. 16:25:33 anyone know when CDO might be back? 16:25:45 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:59 -!- hephaestus_rg has quit [Quit: hephaestus_rg] 16:26:29 ??is cdo down[2] 16:26:29 is cdo down[2/2]: http://i.imgur.com/eKJ3cnw.jpg 16:26:30 "real soon now" (i think napkin said 4 days at most, and it went down 2 days ago?) 16:27:11 yeah, but i got sick 16:27:27 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:53 hope you're feeling better (regardless of CDO status) :) 16:28:14 ordinary flu, i think 16:28:31 but fever and headache.. no fun working or concentrating on moving things 16:29:03 glad I managed to avoid a cold these last couple winters 16:29:32 Should we put an eta of say "in the next 4 days"? I guess we don't really need an ETA, but it might result in fewer questions 16:30:38 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2905-g6124e91: Do tiles.shutdown() earlier when handling a crash. 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 20+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6124e914b64a 16:30:40 s/4 days/N days/ for any value of N 16:30:55 i've got a holiday on Monday 16:31:14 -!- rizzen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:20 |amethyst: Tried to address that stuff, but maybe it's just a bad idea to send things after a crash. 16:32:40 I'd think after a crash you're asking for trouble to do much of anything involving internal state 16:32:55 or using stdio / C++ I/O 16:33:08 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:49 !learn edit is_cdo_down s/Now./Now (probably by the end of the 1st week in March)./ 16:33:49 Use: !learn edit is_cdo_down[NUM] s/// 16:33:56 !learn edit is_cdo_down[1] s/Now./Now (probably by the end of the 1st week in March)./ 16:33:56 is cdo down[1/2]: Yes, a server move is underway. It will be back Real Soon Now (probably by the end of the 1st week in March). 16:34:12 ??tavern 16:34:12 forum[1/4]: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/ 16:36:53 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:18 ChrisOelmueller: no_dup is obsolete; used to mean: don't reuse this vault, but that is now the default 16:37:22 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:37 okay thanks, will purge those then :) 16:37:59 gammafunk: is the `no_flip` in gammafunk_forest_water_palace supposed to be no_hmirror as well? 16:38:27 ChrisOelmueller: I think there was a change to the pan vault tag too? I made my own local modifications but that was a while back. 16:39:08 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:16 -!- blahblah has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:51 03pubby02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2906-g5cb1b68: Allow Fo to get rPois mutation. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cb1b68c4ede 16:40:51 03pubby02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2907-g726c8f7: Remove Fo exoskeleton mutation. 10(2 hours ago, 6 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=726c8f7a8baf 16:40:51 03pubby02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2908-g53dfddf: Buff Fo mp apt to 1. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53dfddf21e00 16:40:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2909-gb4f46d0: Remove rods of venom from some vaults 10(33 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b4f46d0c3fd6 16:40:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2910-g8a9724b: Remove another reference to Fo poison vulnerability 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a9724b8bd19 16:41:03 right that one was removed 16:41:39 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:13 -!- blahblah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:45:27 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:53 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:48:58 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:36 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak 16:52:25 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:44 there's also "arena" "sprint" "zotdef" tags in various maps that i'm not sure are still in use? 16:55:35 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:00 -!- blahblah has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:16 CSZO has had a recent spat of very bad posters 16:59:17 we need moderation 16:59:35 cszo "posters"? 16:59:42 you mean spectators in webtiles? 16:59:44 whatever man 16:59:48 those guys 16:59:49 sure 16:59:50 okay 16:59:51 w/e 17:00:00 -!- vhysere has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:16 how practical would you assume a manual moderation (of what kind?) to be in the hundreds of rooms spawned on every webtiles server? 17:01:48 the fact that there's hundreds is usually irrelevant; only one game tends to have spectators 17:01:56 moderating webtiles chat seems like not a thing that anybody would ever want to do yeah, i guess /ignore functionality would be useful perhaps 17:02:55 -!- BanquosGhost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:55 -!- MakMorn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:52 having /ignore functionality would be a very nice compromise i think 17:03:55 greensnark: i can only find that stuff being called "uniq" in the past, but that's probably it? 17:04:10 session only ignore might be pretty easy 17:04:14 or saving it in a cookie 17:04:19 or is this already history from beyond initial git rev 17:04:31 we don't currently have any place for persistant data like that 17:05:00 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2911-g2fd9f41: Change WebTiles crash handling to work by parsing stderr. 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 23+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2fd9f4130f0f 17:05:26 That should be better. 17:06:00 |amethyst: Above change needs server restart, but should only thing that gains is fancier crash dialogs. 17:07:55 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:56 Allowing the player to moderate the chat would also be a possibility of course... 17:08:19 As in the player can ban spectators? 17:08:33 Well, stop them from talking. 17:09:17 I wonder if advertising some FreeNode webchat on WebTiles lobby would be sensible. 17:09:41 Lobby chat (x people), link to ##crawl-webtiles 17:09:44 Or something like that 17:09:55 Or ##crawl of course 17:10:26 i think it would be very unpopular as a place to talk, as having everyone watch a game is very cool 17:10:46 watching the same game, that is 17:11:04 Right, makes sense. 17:12:50 Can we also make it so dev team members always get a fancy spectator name style, so people will never disagree with me 17:13:02 we don't currently have any place for persistant data like that 17:13:06 the rcfile? 17:13:08 My argument winratio is not what it should be 17:13:37 heh. that would probably lead to anyone with such style being ignored automatically 17:13:51 see also: tavern 17:13:52 no 17:13:56 just gammafunk being ignored automatically 17:14:05 people would still listen to sgrunt 17:14:11 I can't lose an argument that way! 17:14:14 sounds like a win-win 17:15:15 minmay: Don't think that's a good place to store a list ignored people or other such things. It's version dependant, public etc. 17:15:52 ChrisOelmueller: Oh right, that was called uniq 17:16:02 Pretty sure no_dup was meant to be the same thing 17:17:05 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 17:17:48 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2910-g8a9724b (34) 17:18:19 thank you all for your time listening to my idea and your continued hard work on this good game 17:18:22 namaste 17:18:26 -!- blahblah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:49 -!- hhkb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:47 -!- reaverb has left ##crawl-dev 17:27:53 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:15 another thing at http://bpaste.net/show/xlTHgSbhiJrR7pxKa0Sf/ 17:38:55 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:01 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-2912-g787ed99: Fix typos in vault tags 10(64 minutes ago, 6 files, 29+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=787ed994d928 17:43:01 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-2913-gc4a6722: Remove no_dup tags from sprint_mu 10(52 minutes ago, 1 file, 28+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4a67229dbd4 17:43:47 thank you 17:44:09 <|amethyst> thank you 17:44:38 <|amethyst> sorry I snapped earlier; I felt like you were ignoring an entire half of the conversation 17:44:47 <|amethyst> but that doesn't excuse it 17:44:54 i do that 17:46:09 both the ignoring and the other people snapping 17:46:25 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:56:53 -!- utrick has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:12 -!- utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:38 -!- utrick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:02:49 * Grunt appears! 18:03:02 (##crawl-dev turns to flee!) 18:03:45 * gammafunk miscasts mass abjuration. gammafunk is cast into the abyss! 18:04:09 ##crawl-dev suddently regains its courage! 18:05:55 * Grunt gestures. ##crawl-dev suddenly stops moving! 18:11:45 -!- Grujah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:11:56 Grunt: Did you read my !tell on Josephine? 18:13:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:14:12 I did. 18:14:52 I think my fundamental problem is that we have a significantly more interesting necromancy unique at the same depths, namely, Nergalle. 18:15:13 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:27 Nergalle is an impressive bit of design. Easily one of my favorite uniques. 18:20:40 I don't really have anything else to add to that. Generic uniques should go. I don't think there would be any significant amount of uproar over removing Josephine. 18:21:22 would people be more sad about removed josephine or ghoul josephine 18:21:30 -!- jmbto has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:22:22 i dont think people would care either way 18:22:28 josephene the zombie herder is lousy though 18:24:48 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:47 I had a probably bad idea of a ghoul unique that could inflict a "zombie form" on the player; slowness, no read/quaff, melee only, undead resists 18:26:57 Ask bh about zombie form sometime <_< 18:27:00 haha 18:27:05 I see someone's been there before 18:27:19 i think kirke should stay as "the unique that transforms you" 18:27:28 !tell bh tell me about zombie form... 18:27:28 gammafunk: OK, I'll let bh know. 18:27:58 gammafunk: Wouldn't lich form be easier to use? You lose slowness and no reading, but you don't have two undead tranformations. 18:28:19 the point is it's supposed to be a bad form, right? 18:28:50 FR: change scrolls of random uselessness into scrolls of bad advice 18:28:50 again, it's probably a bad idea anyhow 18:28:58 scrape from learndb 18:29:03 johlstei: nethack fortune cookies? 18:29:10 gammafunk: I'm pretty sure lich form is a bad form. :P. If the unique had something like dispel undead, it would easily turn the tables. 18:29:11 wow yes actually 18:29:11 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:29:13 I forgot about those 18:29:20 they just used fortune right? 18:29:51 reaverb: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but lich form is not a "bad form"; in fact there's a L8 spell to make you into a lich 18:30:00 and "make you a lich so I can dispell you" is not very efficient 18:30:05 just give them drain bolt 18:30:06 I don't mind josephine in terms of her getting a bunch of zombies when she usually appears in areas that don't normally get zombies, although I suppose over time people have been horribly made tired of zombies 18:30:26 So I'm still tinkering with this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzBASbyxWI2dHlkMGtnYTduUGpjX1N4bkZTMGZKV3c#gid=2 18:30:38 salutations, grunt 18:30:42 (also note the original) 18:30:58 tenofswords, I automated the selection of distribution formulas. It makes life updating these a heck of a lot simpler. 18:31:00 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:31:21 johlstei: no, there is a list of messages shipped as part of nethack (well two lists actually) 18:31:38 I had considered doing that when I first made these but I didn't want to bother with how long that line is 18:31:49 good stuff, though 18:32:01 gammafunk: Alright, maybe a custome form would be better. 18:32:09 fair enough, maybe an implementation at some point used fortune 18:32:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:55 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 18:33:13 maybe you're thinking of the mail daemon 18:33:45 i just imagine nethack as repurposing unix programs in general 18:34:08 I suppose I'm fine with this list as is 18:34:21 my eyes roll at the tengu sightings though :P 18:34:43 If they get there, I'd be likely to remove or weight them down a lot in Depths. 18:34:57 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:27 re: boggarts, it seems the problem is just that they don't cast invis/blink enough? 18:35:39 (clearly give boggarts M_INVIS) 18:36:04 ...that... actually sounds terrifying to most players <_< 18:36:05 or i guess the fact that invis is totally negated by being some certain races or having a certain ring 18:37:02 the idea of invisibility that sinv doesn't help against i assume wouldn't go down well among players, though (with the possible exception of ChrisOelmueller) 18:37:08 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:37 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:06 oh this reminds me of something else but i don't want to derail yet another 18:38:40 removing slow and confuse would make them cast their other spells more frequently, right? 18:38:48 if you're going to special-case them, more blink and my vote'd be no abjure on death 18:39:24 this doesn't help a lot against wands of fireball though which were kind of the thing even before that change 18:39:37 maybe their summon spell could be tweaked. so it is shadow creatures + blink away 18:40:17 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:25 !lg * recent ikiller=boggart 18:40:26 95. dpeg the Martial Artist (L12 DsTm of Ashenzari), blown up by an eye of devastation (summoned by a boggart) on D:15 on 2014-02-13 12:59:55, with 21570 points after 26452 turns and 1:40:05. 18:40:34 that way they summon a bunch of stuff and hopefully get out of range in the same move. no need for special cases there 18:40:37 seems surprisingly low 18:40:46 Crypt: Vaults:2-3 Forest: Vaults:2-3 <- this is in ^O on trunk, this is a bug, yeah? 18:40:50 SPELL_BOGGART_SUMMON, 18:40:51 although i'm not sure how well "blink away" AI works 18:41:05 (Clearly borrow 4.1's MS_CONTROLLED_BLINK <_<) 18:41:28 yeah, most of the code of forest still exists 18:41:29 Grunt: is that like ancient liches etc. nethack? 18:41:41 s/nethack/in nethack/ 18:41:53 No; it was a blink with extreme weight on tiles out of LOS of the player. 18:41:55 does anyone remember if Forest showed up in ctrl-O in 0.13? 18:42:02 interesting 18:42:38 what i had in mind is something more failure-prone than that 18:42:41 wheals: I think yes 18:43:08 i think 4.1 had full-on controlled blink for monsters 18:43:10 should probably get the Dwarf treatment then 18:43:52 !dwarfing 18:44:05 mountain forests 18:44:09 haha 18:44:22 already a thing in dwarf fortress... 18:44:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:39 I'll pull up 4.1's monster_blink here to explain. 18:45:04 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-ancient/source/632c78063e9d52be16eece1ebbd0d5709c3c7d27:source/monstuff.cc#L1209 18:45:13 some vaults are still using place:Forest, so clearly I have another thing on my plate 18:45:48 place:dwarf probably works, since it still exists in mon-pick-data.h? 18:46:04 er, thinking of random monsters 18:46:06 nvm 18:46:08 well, that has been ravaged into unusability 18:46:21 tenofswords: looks mostly like sprints and a certain encompass vault. 18:46:25 place:Dwarf has two dwarves, for some reason :P 18:46:39 that's 1/3 my fault 18:47:07 grunt: yes, see, I have to edit that encompass vault 18:47:16 "edit" 18:47:29 aha 18:47:41 %git 0f8acbfc5e5e5b6 18:47:42 07tenofswords02 * 0.14-a0-2481-g0f8acbf: Modernize river_lethe 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 68+ 74-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f8acbfc5e5e 18:47:46 if monsters reading ?blink as escape also get this blink, that would finally explain how they did their thing 18:48:01 I think they do. Let me investigate. 18:48:31 i see that dcss changed monstuff into mon-stuff but otherwise didn't change the name? 18:48:38 saddening 18:48:45 ...yeah, they do. 18:48:49 !send wheals stuff 18:48:49 Sending stuff to wheals. 18:48:57 another mystery uncovered, thanks Grunt 18:49:32 The Stuff (02X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 122-173 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Dam: 16 | 11non-living, see invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(96), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1334 | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 18:49:32 %??starcursed_mass name:The_Stuff n_rpl n_des 18:49:54 The wailing of accursed code tears at your sanity! 18:50:13 wow, pre coord_def I gather 18:50:28 Yup. 18:50:56 -!- Chris7 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:07 probably i could fix the thing by removing BRANCH_FOREST from is_random_subbranch 18:52:02 wheals: possibly add it to branch_is_unfinished? 18:52:37 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:09 to people knowing V layout things: replacements for these old placement tags wanted, http://bpaste.net/show/VwtdiH6G7xPVIlbJ0Dx2/ 18:54:21 ??save compat 18:54:22 save compat[1/2]: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/develop/save_compatibility.txt;hb=HEAD 18:54:31 wheals: You might want to also make sure there can't be forest enterance mimics. 18:54:49 (preferably by making sure there can't be feature mimics) 18:55:06 I don't think any of those vaults could ever place in Vaults? 18:55:10 Well, maybe the grate one. 18:55:44 well they somehow obtained said old tags and i felt bad just removing them 18:56:07 The relevant tag in all of those cases is vaults_room_empty, probably. 18:56:19 Er... 18:56:21 vaults_empty, rather. 18:56:26 feel free to do magic to it, i won't touch them 18:56:38 (Also the Lua in that last vault can probably go away. 18:56:44 (the Vaults lua, that is) 18:58:37 * Grunt tinkers... 18:59:11 -!- Chris7 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:06 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 19:06:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:13:52 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 19:14:10 Aha, they actually can place (with the right tag). 19:18:41 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2914-gfa2d2d7: Modernise some old Vaults room tags (ChrisOelmueller). 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa2d2d73ac31 19:18:48 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:16 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:19:43 Grunt: the spreadsheet has centaur warrior twice; is this with/without band? 19:19:59 wheals: no; look at the depths/weights. 19:20:08 It's to weight down the latter half of centaur warrior placements. 19:20:23 Compare the original placement - they're really, really common at some depths. 19:26:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:51 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2915-g1116d75: Treat rod of shadows bands as one summon (like Shadow Creatures). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1116d75af27e 19:31:06 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:01 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:43 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:18 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:54 ...anyway, maybe I will push these adjustments and tinker more with it if necessary. 19:41:04 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 19:43:20 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2916-g8f76789: Some adjustments to late D and D OOD spawns. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8f76789fbaa5 19:46:05 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:13 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:37 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:31 -!- walnutcon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:55:52 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:56:43 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:02:11 Neuromancer (L6 FeTm) (D:4) 20:03:52 !crashlog Neuromancer 20:03:52 2. Neuromancer, XL6 FeTm, T:5564 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Neuromancer/crash-Neuromancer-20140302-020209.txt 20:05:53 Natasha had it's revenge 20:07:35 I don't see any check on tries 20:07:45 in mons_felid_revive 20:07:57 That caught my eye too. 20:08:08 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 20:09:39 Don't see why those tries wouldn't work on that map though. 20:10:14 yeah 20:12:42 -!- sstrickl has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:12:46 Is using both get_int and get_byte valid there? I've never used those things. 20:13:05 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 20:13:13 looks like the mon-gear stuff is getting called 20:13:16 Anyway, nowmons = 0x0, item = 14 20:13:23 when create_monster is being called 20:13:25 yeah 20:13:32 it's seeing that it's natasha I guess 20:14:14 I guess the newmons test should surround the item stuff. 20:14:15 oh no, it's just give_specific_item calling _give_monster_item 20:14:40 <|amethyst> still, that should be get_byte 20:15:36 yeah, not sure why the monster wasn't created 20:15:50 but that seems to be what happened 20:17:29 I'll commit something 20:18:23 hrm, can you give a monster an item? 20:18:31 in wiz mode 20:18:38 -!- johnny0 has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:18:44 You can with &% 20:18:55 But I can't really remember the syntax :P 20:18:58 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:11 Same stuff you use for vaults 20:19:17 <|amethyst> xo 20:19:18 wait not with that 20:19:25 with &M 20:19:45 oh, right, that's a better answer 20:20:04 <|amethyst> in both cases, it only works if the monster wants the item 20:20:20 <|amethyst> IIRC 20:20:41 _A felid comes into view. It is wielding a club. 20:21:04 <|amethyst> oh 20:21:06 <|amethyst> I guess not 20:21:25 well, couldn't trigger the crash by giving natasha a wand or anything 20:21:31 <|amethyst> Monster 'fire dragon' can't use items. 20:22:14 help, felids can even wield gsc 20:22:32 felidcids 20:23:42 <|amethyst> likewise with kobolds 20:23:58 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:17 <|amethyst> I guess monspecs only care about whether they can use the item class? 20:24:23 probably, yeah 20:24:23 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:29 stone giants 20:24:52 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2917-gc8cdd53: Don't crash if revived Natasha can't be created. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8cdd53d3e64 20:24:52 <|amethyst> three different behaviours 20:25:43 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:20 <|amethyst> 1. An error: "Monster 'fire dragon' can't use items" 2. The item is withheld but the monster goes through: kobold ; orc chunk 20:27:08 <|amethyst> 3. The item is granted: spriggan ; giant spiked club . plate armour 20:27:20 would have using get_int() caused the data to be garbeled, so that the hd was negative, or something? 20:27:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, that could happen 20:27:39 <|amethyst> gammafunk: depending on uninitialised memory 20:27:47 <|amethyst> aha 20:27:56 <|amethyst> and the negative hd made the monster placement fail 20:29:58 Would asserting newmons there make sense? 20:30:24 <|amethyst> well, there might be situations where they legitimately can't spawn maybe? 20:30:31 <|amethyst> monster table full perhaps 20:30:54 <|amethyst> very small levels full of abominations 20:31:16 <|amethyst> Not sure what to do then, though 20:31:25 <|amethyst> maybe banish them, or shaft them 20:31:36 <|amethyst> (them = the felid) 20:32:42 maybe it's unlikely enough to not worry about 20:33:08 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:26 * geekosaur remembers that item mimic case *squish* 20:34:41 yeah negative or 0 hd was my guess for why the creation failed 20:34:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:35:36 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzBASbyxWI2dFgyVXRWNmUwT1FZdHFWSzNTa3NMTVE#gid=2 20:35:42 * Grunt tinkers more with other things. 20:36:39 does it bother anyone else that monster ghouls have rotting attacks 20:37:21 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:53 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:01 i mean it's not like player ghouls do... 20:38:55 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all! :D] 20:39:11 fr? 20:39:27 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:48 (clearly give player ghouls AF_ROT) 20:41:10 Does rot work on monsters? 20:41:20 Define "work". 20:41:25 Can you rot monsters? Yes. 20:41:26 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:41:32 Does it generally have a noticeable effect? No. 20:41:34 Do they actually lose max hp 20:41:39 Yes. 20:41:52 Ok, cool, I guess :P 20:46:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:30 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 20:54:09 -!- ac13 has quit [Quit: ac13] 20:55:19 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:00:37 buppy's description for that experimental race of his talks about how it's a combination of scrapped ideas from Dj, LO, and his smith god 21:00:50 what scrapped idea from LO did that race take? 21:00:56 (And what's the plan with LO anyways?) 21:01:14 %git smithgod 21:01:15 07pubby02 {|amethyst} * 0.14-a0-2792-g25e739b: New experimental species: Cherufe 10(8 hours ago, 14 files, 147+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=25e739b18733 21:01:26 heat aura and scroll cons are kinda from LO 21:01:57 -!- ac13 has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:36 smithicans 21:02:43 Djinn orcs 21:04:40 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:42 buppy: I like how you stole a proposed god's name and completely changed the mechanics and borrowed the idea behind the god mechanics to make a speices. 21:06:08 hehehe 21:06:37 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:04 what were the god's original mechanics? 21:09:11 Lightli: rF, casting from health when out of magic, etc. The idea was also the scavage the Dj and LO mechanics. 21:09:29 Oh 21:09:51 Why scavenge LO mechanics? That race isn't going anywhere 21:10:41 Lightli: Why would you assume that? They're at least not getting into 0.14. (I think it was more focused on Dj, though) 21:11:01 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:04 I knew that much 21:11:11 Thing was virtually nobody like Dj 21:11:14 *liked 21:15:53 As you read the scroll labeled SHUOLATR TOMUCS, it crumbles to dust. 21:15:54 It is a scroll of enchant weapon II. 21:15:55 It was a scroll of enchant weapon II. 21:16:13 Kind of silly, when you don't have a weapon in your inventory. 21:17:59 mantis is down but I have a patch to be looked at: http://sprunge.us/JdYE 21:18:37 consolidates 6 wands into 2 21:20:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:42 buppy: I like commits 1 & 2 but I find slowing, confusion, and paralysis significantly differant that replacing them would be a net loss. 21:21:45 good patch here, not checking a single vault for the current uses of any of those six and thus not loading 21:22:54 give me a sec 21:23:58 buppy: I recommand always compiling before making a commit. 21:24:22 flame and frost / fire and cold could be merged maybe 21:24:24 I did compile and test but the vaults must not have been reloaded 21:24:56 buppy: Oh yes, I forgot about vaults being special. 21:25:09 going beyond that feels a bit enforced, and for the hexes it's not really something i'd like as a player either 21:25:28 Well, the surely the idea here is more important than the actual patch anyway. 21:26:53 the reason why I didn't combine flame and frost was because I liked keeping good wands and mediocre wands separate 21:27:01 err flame and fire 21:27:36 well you just merged paralysis with slowing :-) but ok 21:29:02 I'm not really sure what to make of it beyong liking exploit weakness a lot more than disabling 21:29:57 ChrisOelmueller: well going by minmay's new shop prices paralysis is the worst of the 'good' wands 21:30:56 * Grunt looks around for that iron giant in Depths patch... 21:31:01 i'll happily empty a few dungeons' shops 21:31:14 buppy: If it is I imagine it's because of the MR check rather than the paralysis effect. 21:31:43 maybe i just like those a lot for no good reason, but i also kind of don't like En when stabbing 21:31:47 so those two might be related!! 21:33:14 not opposed to making the "bad" ones less bad though, the thing where they get more charges isn't really working at the moment 21:35:45 I think that wands should have a fixed chance of giving status effects, but used more charges if the target's MR is really high or your evocations is really low. (Also, add more charges to increase graduality) 21:35:48 -!- yuri-him1 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:35 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:38:53 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 21:40:36 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 21:44:51 Medar: scrolls that id before use like that shouldn't show the "it was a scroll of foo" message at all, i guess that was probably just overlooked when changing ew scrolls 21:45:59 -!- the_glow1 is now known as the_glow 21:45:59 I guess it also should have some message for no valid items. 21:48:51 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:07 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:19 tenofswords: here is exploit wand patch with fixed vaults http://sprunge.us/QJLa 21:55:05 Medar: brand weapon has that already too i think, will take a look 21:57:53 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2918-gcf00f6c: Depths spawn table overhaul. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 50+ 52-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf00f6c2d70f 21:58:09 * Grunt listens for the cries of celebration / outrage / ... 21:58:38 why did you have to kill the poor giant eyeballs 21:58:41 bring back giant eyeballs 21:58:44 !! 21:59:04 dire eyeballs 21:59:06 they were even specifically added in there at some point 21:59:14 ... 21:59:18 yes they are in fact good enemies 21:59:27 v. appropriate for depths! 21:59:36 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:11 giant eyeball (16G) | Spd: 3 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 0/1 | lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(12), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 3 | Sp: paralysis gaze | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 22:00:11 %??giant eyeball 22:00:17 wow, grunt's call was surprisingly effective... 22:00:38 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:48 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:00:54 list of authors of comments which were serious above: tenofswords, 22:01:03 hrm, maybe a new giant-eyeball-like enemy that para-gazes a bit less and does other things? 22:01:13 great orb of eyes (09G) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 46-83 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 20 | see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | XP: 1027 | Sp: paralyse, disintegrate (d44), slow, confuse, 04esc:teleport other | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:01:13 %??great orb of eyes 22:01:14 i like giant eyeballs 22:01:19 gammafunk: ^ 22:01:20 and yes great orb of eyes are a thing 22:01:24 i was serious about the eyeballs 22:01:27 yes me too 22:01:28 how about a giant eyeball that just chain-paralyzes you until you're dead and also has b.disint 22:01:35 yes! it has all the pieces except for one 22:01:35 yes, although there's an mr check there 22:01:51 hope you have mr! 22:02:25 that thing got me when i had two MR items and a bloody MR mutation 22:02:35 i'm not sure it actually has a mr check anywhere near its code 22:02:41 /join ##crawl-4.1-dev 22:02:48 does the para effect from para the spell last longer than para the ability? 22:03:29 * Grunt goes back to pondering this iron giant thing >_> 22:03:41 (really, I think it'd have to be a more meaningful enemy for the change to be worthwhile) 22:04:09 (I'll just file this back away for future consideration...) 22:05:01 yeah, I think just replacing the weight of giant eyeballs with great orb of eyes is pretty sensible 22:05:35 giant eyeballs are a pretty different things to great orbs of eyes 22:05:37 would be sensible if great orbs of eyes did anything 22:05:40 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:06 and are also a unique threat that stays relevant all game despite being slow and weak, i'm not really seeing what the problem with them in depths was? 22:06:39 some players just hated dying to something they couldn't obviate with a resist, I guess 22:06:49 ok well that's not an argument for anything 22:06:50 i don't think i remember anyone complaining about them, either 22:06:50 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:53 players don't like dying 22:07:11 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:14 I suppose there is precedent for people not complaining about lair monsters in late D 22:07:39 3rding (4thing?) the giant eyeball thing 22:07:47 manticores also seem a bit out of place, i think 22:08:02 they were just komodos and slugs, not dire elephants, of course, 22:08:06 i think i wanted to complain about slugs in V just earlier today 22:08:15 there used to be snails too! 22:08:33 I haven't had a chance to look at the REST of it, but definitely that 22:08:34 hrm, maybe give giant orb of eyes the giant eye para ability, but they use it less, and remove para the spell 22:08:42 yes yes V needs a purge for weird things 22:08:51 I guess the issue is they're not low-hp 22:09:44 Why this talk of how to make something else into something more giant eyeball like when giant eyeballs already exist? 22:09:54 And seem fine where they were :P 22:10:04 DracoOmega: the middle ground is pretty hard to occupy sometimes, pity me... 22:10:20 because clearly gooe also need a buff seperqte of anything else 22:10:34 Medar: scrolls that id before use like that shouldn't show the "it was a scroll of foo" <-- then how is the player supposed to know what scroll it is? 22:10:39 Well, sure, doing something this gooe might be fine, but seems unrelated to the current point essentially 22:10:42 something to* 22:10:55 wheals: when you read it you get the "it is a scroll of foo" before the effect 22:11:20 like, a few scrolls (brand weapon, acq, now ew) add that message before the scroll effect 22:11:26 ah, yes 22:11:33 so those are special-cased to not automatically also show "it was a etc" 22:11:36 i thought you were talking about the "is" message, sorry 22:11:39 i have it fixed, will push in a sec 22:11:41 I think the idea was, since some want giant eyes removed from depths, and there's overlap in their abilities, see if they can be tweaked to satisfy everyone 22:11:48 as futile as the idea probably was 22:12:02 IMO monsters should be differentiated, not made more similar 22:12:28 (or removed if they're not worth changing!!) 22:12:40 broadly speaking, sure, but not 100% of the time; in any case, there seems to be a plurality for having them in depths; I'm fine either way 22:12:49 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:57 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2919-gf20b047: Add an enemy back to depths. 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f20b04788f01 22:13:11 haha 22:13:18 The shadowy hand moves... 22:13:19 gammafunk: Some people want lots of things - that doesn't automatically mean they should be listened to :P 22:13:19 anyway the rest of the stuff looks good in terms of moving some uninteresting stuff out 22:13:23 huzzah 22:13:37 You may, of course, stare at the tables to figure out exactly what changed. :) 22:13:43 rakshasa going up... 22:13:44 I am going to run mapstats 22:13:48 DracoOmega: was nevery implying that people should be automatically listened too... 22:13:55 to 22:14:00 Since that ends up being more accurate than the spreadsheet as it accounts for vaults 22:14:02 Which have 9s and such 22:14:08 stone giants ettins definitely dropping off, hrm 22:14:10 heh 22:14:31 I think I still have old map stat data from the previous weights to compare it to, as well 22:14:42 Though this will take its sweet bloody time, as always :P 22:15:58 MarvinPA: When I asked about this earlier, your name was mentioned briefly. Do you understand interruption code at all? Enough to maybe be able to help coax the deterministic poison branch into sensible interactions with resting and low hp prompts? 22:17:35 hmm, i've only really messed with it while cleaning up dead butchery code, so not really i'm afraid 22:18:04 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2920-g67a59c3: Improve messaging for EW scrolls 10(23 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=67a59c3fd9aa 22:18:22 Speaking of EW scrolls, can I go and merge them now >_> 22:18:22 Hmmm 22:18:29 Merge them? What? 22:18:45 MarvinPA: Nice! 22:18:59 There's been an idea floating around for a while to have only one "enchant weapon" scroll, having the same effect as current EW III (more or less) and some intermediate item weight. 22:19:15 I think it's probably too late to consider that for 0.14, but it's something that's been going around. 22:19:48 Hmmm... might make EW III feel less 'special', though that on its own is probably not an important reason 22:21:49 it might be nice to make ew work like ea 22:21:58 always succeeding, that is 22:22:00 ...no fail-- 22:22:21 but obviously that would have to go alongside rebalancing their weights too 22:22:49 need to time travel to 0.15 funtimes 22:24:07 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:26 also on my list of scroll things to do is "make all scrolls id on read, make curse foo not generate randomly (and just be an ash thing)", i keep putting it off because i have no idea what to do with the curse foo weighting (loads and loads of random uselessness?) and also removing the ash special-casing on curse foo is a bunch of effort 22:24:47 ...redistribute the curse foo weight over everything else? 22:25:03 I can get behind the ID on read thing; I was considering doing that myself >_> 22:25:24 (if we get too many scrolls, lower the scroll spawn rate) 22:25:50 right, i think those two things sort of have to go together though 22:26:06 since otherwise you get into silly "take off all your armour to identify curse armour" territory 22:28:14 horrible idea: giant eyeballs in Zot 22:28:45 give liches summon eyeballs 22:28:57 i guess really you can do that already since the only non-targeted scrolls that don't id on read are remove curse and curse foo, and it's not like it's difficult to figure out which stack of {tried} is remove curse just based on stack size 22:31:06 oh wow speaking of stuff spawning in zot, i only just noticed guardian mummies don't anymore :( 22:31:20 Haha 22:31:25 That's been that way for a long time! 22:31:34 i guess i won't fight for them as strongly as for giant eyeballs :P 22:31:39 (I'm fairly sure I did that myself >.>) 22:31:42 yeah i found the commit 22:31:47 %git 2913054 22:31:47 07DracoOmega02 * 0.13-a0-2271-g2913054: Remove random guardian mummies from Zot 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29130549fe1b 22:31:48 %git 29130549fe1b7b40 22:31:48 07DracoOmega02 * 0.13-a0-2271-g2913054: Remove random guardian mummies from Zot 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29130549fe1b 22:31:50 curses 22:31:56 Yes 22:31:58 Death curses 22:31:58 MarvinPA's keyboard glows black for a moment. 22:32:31 need to make a second guardian mummy zot vault 22:32:32 Hey, the commit does say that if anyone misses them, I wouldn't argue :P 22:32:39 heh 22:32:49 I guess I just found myself headscratching at their presence 22:33:05 hangedman_guardian_party 22:33:12 yes, that is probably the reaction of anyone who ever actually ran into one too 22:33:32 they are guarding the orb of zot 22:33:51 mons: vault guard, guardian mummy, guardian serpent, crystal guardian, orb of fire 22:33:59 The guardian mummy steams in the rain. 22:34:30 !vault hangedman_zot_vaults_quadrants 22:34:31 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des;hb=HEAD#l1823 22:34:35 they do still exist at least! 22:34:45 (third) 22:35:05 !vault xom_zot_hilarity 22:35:05 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des;hb=HEAD#l1137 22:35:55 need to put wargoyles in that former vault 22:36:13 MarvinPA: Jumping way back again, can you think of someone who might have the relevant expertise on the interruption thing? Maybe elliptic? 22:36:16 fr: killer klown spells:rearrange_the_pieces 22:36:42 Given that a bunch of it seems to be lua-side 22:36:53 hmm... i don't recall elliptic doing anything with the interrupt code at least 22:36:54 oh, is it? 22:37:08 i didn't even know that, possibly then! :P 22:37:34 Yes, it involves some kind of lua trickery I don't really understand 22:37:35 also I could give those mummies scrolls of summoning... 22:37:36 so giant eyeballs went from being in depths to not being in depths and then being in depths again in about 20 minutes 22:37:37 -!- rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:49 that was fast 22:37:54 sigh, I never do as much as I should 22:37:56 But I don't know if qw might somehow have touched on relevant things 22:38:08 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:24 Since the point of deterministic poison is sort of lost if you need to hold down 5 when below 50% hp, even when 'safe' 22:38:56 Well, one of the points, anyway 22:39:00 oh right i guess it's runrest.lua, i always sort of thought everything in dat/clua was either autofight or just totally ancient (gearset.lua! has anyone used this ever) 22:39:24 what does the latter do 22:39:28 Well, I didn't even know it existed, so I haven't 22:39:40 wheals: lets you bind a key to toggle between two sets of equipment 22:39:49 "Travel" or "Battle" kit 22:40:17 (BATTLEKIT) 22:41:26 As far as I can tell, events are sent in complicated fashion to lua, which can intercept them and then (somehow) tell Crawl not to bother interrupting on things it otherwise would. But I've had a hard time figuring out at what point you intercept things or how to set up an intercept on any NEW thing. 22:41:26 I did change runrest_ignore_poison a bit, but that does nothing for the low hitpoint warnings 22:41:27 Since that's not 'poison damage' 22:41:27 So it only works if you're not at low hp :P 22:41:27 (Where 'low' for some people is still plenty high) 22:41:33 jewellery quickswap??? 22:42:05 People really have 'travel' kits? 22:42:09 does anyone understand gearset is the question 22:42:13 i bet someone somewhere uses it to swap two rings of sustenance on every time they travel 22:42:22 Hahaha 22:42:33 Beware the hunger cost! 22:42:46 i know i was left in complete befuddlement the occasions i looked at it 22:43:11 <|amethyst> considering how long gearset was broken, probably no one uses it for anything 22:43:15 A lot of clua confuses me, to be honest 22:43:39 runrest_ignore also has some great variable names, like g_rr_yhpmin 22:43:42 hrm, is anyone reported using automagic, come to think of it? 22:43:50 wow, nice 22:44:06 good variables 22:44:15 Also g_rr_yhpl 22:44:25 Even knowing what it DID, I can't figure out what some of it means 22:45:50 g rr yhpl (113) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 12 | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 213 | Sp: iron shot (3d16), sum.ufetubus | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:45:50 %??ynoxinul name:g_rr_yhpl n_rpl n_des 22:45:53 gammafunk: i assume automagic walks towards stuff if you're out of spell range or something? but yeah i would never really use it over simple spell macros 22:46:45 tenofswords: Failed demon names. I like that explanation. 22:47:03 hehehe 22:47:13 ??vehamut 22:47:13 I don't have a page labeled vehamut in my learndb. 22:47:17 I should try it some time; I know the author put a bunch of work into it, a shame if it just ends up rotting 22:47:22 ??automagic 22:47:22 automagic[1/1]: Makes tab use a spell instead of melee to attack, add automagic_enable = true to your rcfile to turn on. 22:47:28 I like automagic so far. Mainly useful for low range spells. 22:47:52 I'll give it a shot on my next IE in trunk 22:48:13 I use it alongside autofight, different key. 22:48:38 mm i should really get around to making autofight_nomove work properly again 22:49:21 in letting you just stand still for a turn instead of aborting, i wish i remembered whose variant of it had that implemented 22:49:45 I think I found where demon names come from 22:50:13 apiblzhe 22:50:45 http://www.random.org/strings/ 22:54:49 -!- sstrickl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:58 Ah, blargh 22:58:07 After all that time, I ran place-population on the wrong depth range -.- 22:58:10 Somehow left out Depths:6 23:00:43 Zot:0 23:01:00 or is it Zot:-1 23:01:35 Haha 23:02:39 see, your subconscious also wants you to cut Depths 23:02:42 it's The Right Thing 23:04:31 cut draconian spam in those entry vaults, yes, I agree 23:04:34 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:00 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:11 -!- Chirs7 is now known as Chris7 23:05:30 clearly one of the entry vaults should have an orb of fire instead of drac spam 23:05:36 (this is not a serious idea) 23:06:16 a certain Halls uses place:Zot:1 already, so too late 23:06:55 welp 23:08:01 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:27 a serious idea was reducing depths to 4 levels 23:09:32 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 23:14:37 RIP 27 floors 23:15:44 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: bbl food!] 23:17:24 reduce depths by 2 and dungeon by 3 and then count zot for 27 23:18:10 huh 23:18:24 <|amethyst> 27 already counts zot 23:18:25 it's already 16+6+5 23:18:43 oh wow I'm dumb today 23:18:44 i vaguely remember it being a thing when zot entry vaults were first introduced of keeping the number of actual zot monsters in them very low 23:18:55 because obviously they're all locked in zot right now, that's the point 23:19:04 i would support making that more the case again! 23:20:45 does that include not spawning profane halls on u:4? 23:22:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:24:40 elves aren't zot monsters anymore 23:25:07 4 eventually becoming $ through the transformation power of shift key 23:27:23 -!- Escalator has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 23:27:55 http://sprunge.us/QeWP 23:28:36 03wheals02 07* 0.14-a0-2921-gf295a2c: Remove a pointless runed door. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f295a2c41198 23:29:39 nice 23:29:53 ...so, how soon can I push this :b 23:30:02 Grunt: imo merge my vulnerability -> purge magic at the same itme 23:30:04 i like the "be really lazy about something until somebody else implements it for you" approach to development 23:30:04 time 23:30:41 nonethousand: don't know if you saw, but I had a related idea: scroll of abjuration, possibly tied into purge magic >_> 23:30:47 (summons are magic after all!) 23:30:50 yeah i had the purge magic commit sat on my "eventually do something about scrolls" branch, although i'm not sure how convinced i am of the name change 23:30:55 being the other side of that is my secret tech for becoming a dev 23:31:05 Grunt: nice idea, I've been trying to think of additional "purge magic" effects 23:31:29 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:35 I will take "how soon" to mean "now" <_< 23:31:41 (for my own commits) 23:31:53 since it seems like vuln and removing magic effects are sort of two separate things that it does, so either name is sort of misleading 23:32:03 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2922-gb00f7ff: Don't randomly generate curse scrolls; reduce scroll gen by 10%. 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b00f7ffce386 23:32:03 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2923-g7bbdbfb: Make curse scrolls and remove curse read-ID. 10(35 minutes ago, 2 files, 36+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7bbdbfb4c8d3 23:32:03 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2924-g8965cfa: Finish making all scrolls read ID. 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 95+ 170-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8965cfaeaf50 23:32:04 I am not at all attached to the name but I just wanted something a little less...negative sounding than "vulnerability" 23:32:11 oh wow nice 23:32:27 i think the main thing with curse foo is that they shouldn't have all the ash-specific special casing now 23:32:35 rip curse scrolls 23:32:36 (that should just be the only way that they work) 23:33:01 that change sounds good 23:33:19 and possibly ash should generate more than one curse foo scroll at a time (1d2? or some other arbitrary number) when you pray on remove curse now 23:33:34 btw Grunt, what's the dropoff in damage for glaciate at range? (and how does point-blank compare to ice storm)? 23:33:38 if you read curse jewellery in hog form do you get a message about your fingers 23:33:58 Point blank (within or at range 3) is ice storm damage. 23:34:03 nonethousand: Point blank to 3 squares away is ice storm 23:34:07 farther away is not ice-storm 23:34:26 wheals: weapon front legs 23:34:27 Basically damage falls off with distance squared (it's capped within range 3). 23:34:38 oh, jewelry, hm 23:34:47 alright, good to know 23:34:50 i haven't done that yet 23:35:02 possibly still front legs 23:35:02 better to *have known* but...RIP 23:35:07 Grunt: So how much weaker is it at max range compared to min range? 23:36:05 Let's see... LOS radius is 8, so it would be 9/64 = 14% damage at the absolute edge of LOS. 23:36:37 ooof 23:36:38 That feels like very little to me 23:37:01 (It's presumably even less when you factor in AC) 23:37:08 So for 4 it would be 5/16? 23:37:10 Grunt: from my all to brief experience with it I think it would be well served to be strengthened a bit 23:37:19 No, it would be 9/16. 23:37:36 oh 23:37:47 So a bit over half 23:37:50 that's...quite the drop 23:38:01 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:38:29 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 23:38:37 Honestly, 50% at max range still sounds like pretty big falloff to me, at first brush 23:39:04 I think the strength would be pretty good for a single school level 9 spell now, maybe 23:39:18 Yeah, if it was mono-Ice I would understand it being like this 23:39:36 but I think a big drop off can definitely work if it does some bonkers damage at range 1! 23:39:55 Well, ice storm damage is fairly bonkers. I just think the falloff shouldn't be that extreme 23:40:08 DracoOmega: the problem is "fairly" :P 23:40:13 -!- turnerjer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:21 -!- turnerjer_ has quit [Client Quit] 23:40:27 (but yeah, too much more isn't reasonable) 23:40:36 aww 23:42:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:45 Well, the bonus effects sound nice and potentially worth a cut in damage. But I fear that such extreme fallout might even be somewhat misleading to people that don't realize 23:42:46 so now after all these buffs to players, can finally remove --be 23:43:03 As 15% of ice storm damage is probably less than bolt of cold or something 23:43:09 Maybe a decent bit less 23:43:14 Which I imagine people wouldn't expect 23:43:37 How about I do this, which I've been considering anyway: 23:43:43 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2925-gefee55e: Make Glaciate damage fall off linearly, not with square of distance. 10(71 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efee55e9b585 23:43:56 this guy 23:44:09 muc hbetter 23:44:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:44:43 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:56 ChrisOelmueller: And invalidate probably nearly half of my wins? 23:45:11 Under what reasoning, Be being too good? 23:45:13 how many people have told you to make it a pure ice spell so far 23:45:16 (Because I can completely understand that) 23:45:51 no i'm afraid i could maybe get dk removed but be will stay forever :\ 23:46:47 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:51 Grunt: So is that about 37.5% damage at max range? 23:47:55 I should take a moment to note that the normal max range is 6 (though you can get 7 with a Vehumet extension); that could change if people still think badly of the spell, though. 23:48:49 03nonethousand02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2926-g20358d8: Increase the weight of vulnerability scroll generation (decrease remove curse) 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20358d8b6632 23:48:49 los is 9? 23:48:50 or 8 23:49:00 LOS is 8. 23:49:10 cool :) thanks MarvinPA 23:49:17 * Grunt pushes nonethousand. 23:49:27 np, seems like the eternal bikeshed shouldn't delay that bit at least 23:49:53 ("It sticks to your hand! a - a cursed -3 commit (weapon)") 23:50:10 Grunt: Yes, sorry, I haven't actually USED it ^^; 23:50:18 So I was only speaking on impressions here 23:50:47 So 50% damage at max range then. That sounds maybe okay (to say any more, I'd need to try the effects of it and such in practice) 23:51:01 Wait, it can't even poke out of LOS like Ice Storm could with Veh boost? 23:51:11 Granted, that was probably not good 23:51:11 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:51:15 two things I love about glaciate: the 90 degree targetting works quite intuitively (and owns) and the special effects seem good and cool 23:51:32 the ice statue effect is super 23:51:42 (fr a spell that freezes enemies into ice statues) 23:51:58 nonethousand: what is the 90 degree targeting 23:52:22 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 23:53:01 raskol: well you pick a square and glaciate hits a 90 degree wedge with that square on its bisector, roughy...I think 23:53:10 Yes. 23:53:30 i like making ice spells better when dudes are nearby as opposed to on the other side of the world, and i also like pulling level 9 spells a bit closer back to earth in terms of damage 23:53:33 -!- turnerjer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:53:59 can i wizmode a shop with a specified item? 23:54:15 -!- home has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:25 fact: stand in disco pan, under the disco ball, while rotating the cone targetter, and you'll become a pandemonium lord (of dance). 23:54:43 wheals: i think you have to make a vault for it 23:55:07 wheals: Shop of Dreams (insert every ridiculously rare artefact in the game) 23:55:36 do the fixedarts have different weights to appear? 23:56:01 "KFEAT: a = general shop use_all ; thing | other thing" or whatever 23:56:15 ...ugh, I still can't figure out why this targetter gives weird rays sometimes :( 23:56:44 dragonskin cloak is pretty rare 23:56:54 dont get me started on the milk chocolate 23:57:15 well yes, obviously we need a thing generating meataxe in crawl 23:58:02 Grunt: it seems to only be when targeting out-of-los tiles or walls, if that helps? or i guess you probably figured that much out already anyway, i haven't looked into it other than just noticing some places where it's weird 23:58:32 MarvinPA: specifically to the upper left! 23:58:44 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:44 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:58:57 yeah that seems to do it more commonly somehow 23:59:03 milk chocolate? 23:59:04 i can get it to happen in other directions too though 23:59:05 It doesn't have to be out-of-LOS or walls, even. 23:59:29 how is the ray weird? 23:59:30 oh yeah i mean out of range rather than out of los 23:59:40 ... 23:59:41 I wonder.