00:00:11 red draconian annihilator (12d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 71-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1492 | Sp: fire breath (3d20), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 00:00:11 %??red draconian annihilator 00:00:13 Probably, at least on this branch. 00:00:33 (I don't know how these things are actually defined) 00:00:58 I have a lot of new code for stacking a job on a base monster. 00:02:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce (34) 00:03:41 Missed the rebuild timer T.T 00:03:58 I will never forgive you 00:04:14 (you deserve a break :P) 00:04:14 Though I'm not doing bad to be doing multiple days' work in one and still think I had a shot at hitting it 00:06:22 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce (34) 00:06:40 you do more work in one day than i do in a year 00:07:24 ontoclasm: from the sound of things doing one dracoomega day's work in a year is nothing to be ashamed of 00:07:33 Hahaha 00:07:37 mmm 00:07:39 Tnaks :) 00:07:58 though what do I know maybe you're just feeding us lies to make yourself sound productive 00:08:00 >_> 00:08:04 well given his name i assume he's a final boss of some kind 00:08:20 Haha 00:08:45 Hopefully, you'll see proof of my productivity soon enough! 00:08:46 NeoDracoOmega 00:08:50 (And then maybe wish you hadn't) 00:12:14 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:52 -!- st_ has quit [] 00:16:19 ontoclasm: did he make a huge batch of tiles or something? 00:16:43 hah, not that i know of 00:16:45 but maybe! 00:17:13 No, I'm pretty sure you're a far better artist than me; no worries :P 00:21:39 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:04 The question is: can DracoOmega outdo my badtiles (in one sense or another)? <_< 00:24:16 mmm badtile contest 00:24:53 Ideally the race to the bottom ends with a unique looking like Evil Otto 00:26:03 Ha 00:26:18 Any attempts at tiles I were to make would likely involve simply recoloring others 00:26:22 Or some copy-paste stuff 00:26:30 ??human col:yellow name:evil_otto n_rpl hd:100 hp:10000 spells:debugging_ray 00:26:30 I don't have a page labeled human_col:yellow_name:evil_otto_n_rpl_hd:100_hp:10000_spells:debugging_ray in my learndb. 00:26:34 I can use an image editor competently, for the things that aren't actually drawing 00:26:37 er 00:26:37 surely you can manage Evil Otto 00:26:38 well 00:26:41 you get the idea :b 00:27:38 Man, it's a pain to reorder commits that involve enum changes around the context that's being reordered -.- 00:28:07 DracoOmega: what's happening? 00:28:18 Resolve a half-dozen or so merge conflicts in one direction, then resolve all of the same ones in the OTHER direction 00:28:35 rerere reasons 00:28:37 SamB: Oh, I was just squashing me changing my mind on something into the original commit where I renamed something 00:28:38 yet again 00:29:27 I have no idea how to use that 00:30:12 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:31 -!- lion_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:34:53 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce (34) 00:37:53 -!- bschlief has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:25 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:25 -!- AlsoZeor is now known as Zeor 00:46:00 Almost done.... 00:46:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:46:08 (I hope I haven't forgotten something important) 00:48:36 Will crawl basically be 3D, requiring a high-end video card after this 00:49:14 Hahaha 00:49:47 yes 3D: Dungeon, Depths, and...you'll just have to wait and see 00:53:59 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:18 Oculus-Rift compatible 00:59:38 Okay, I expect I will soon remember something that I overlooked, but are you ready to be spammed? :P 01:01:35 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/desertfloor.png 01:01:39 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01:40 first pass 01:02:03 Is that a no? :P 01:02:10 go for it bro 01:02:30 Chei does as Chei does 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2163-g82ffb2b: Treants -> Shambling Mangroves 10(12 days ago, 8 files, 15+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82ffb2bf210d 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2164-g68bd426: Let shambling mangroves sometimes nest ravens instead of wasps 10(12 days ago, 3 files, 27+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=68bd4261cb0a 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2165-g5637cb1: Adjust grasping roots 10(12 days ago, 2 files, 7+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5637cb1e08c5 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2166-g7d24744: Don't spam rooted characters with a ton of needless messages when rooted and moving through shallow water. 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d24744ddebe 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2167-gd0431c8: Buff ravens' damage a bit, make them spawn in small bands 10(12 days ago, 3 files, 12+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d0431c8b13b8 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2168-g3ddfe14: A new description for Shambling Mangroves 10(12 days ago, 3 files, 8+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ddfe14736f6 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2169-g9d7b9d0: Adapt thorn hunters and lotuses to a marshy home 10(12 days ago, 3 files, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d7b9d09aaf0 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2170-g557bad8: Nerf spriggan druids slightly 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=557bad80a24e 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2171-g3ed202c: Some spriggan band adjustments for Swamp 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 13+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ed202c3d93f 01:03:43 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2172-geee8177: A few tweaks to monster Cause Fear 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eee81776fc97 01:03:43 ... and 68 more commits 01:03:55 oh god 01:04:59 68 01:05:03 Hehe 01:05:13 In fairness, not all of them are mine! 01:05:20 (But most of them are mine) 01:05:42 this went in trunk, didn't it 01:05:59 now my VS speedrun will die in swamp 01:06:25 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:46 Haha 01:06:50 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:06:53 Well, CSZO isn't updated yet or anything 01:06:59 Though probably I should trigger a rebuild 01:07:01 ??rebuild 01:07:02 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://rl.heh.fi/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte, |amethyst, or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 01:07:07 quick! 01:07:09 Hehe 01:07:10 Welcome back, gammafunk. 7 shambling mangroves come into view. 01:07:14 Bahahaha 01:09:22 I can only do CSZO, I am afraid 01:09:36 Well, maybe CAO too, but I can't remember for sure if that was eventually fixed or not 01:09:48 cdo required to update? 01:10:23 Well, lots of big changes 01:10:25 fannar reanimated 01:10:36 Yes, poor Fannar got nerfed hard and no one realized 01:10:41 Just 'man, he seems kind of weak' 01:10:42 I was wondering about that 01:10:45 yeah 01:11:01 I seem to be good at uncovering problems with icy things killing people :P 01:11:37 There were a few more things I originally planned to toss in with all this stuff, but I realized that they can just as easily come later, as they're only peripherally involved 01:11:45 (Well, some of that is too, but happened to be done along the way) 01:12:00 %git :/Fannar 01:12:00 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2232-g74110c2: Revert accidentally nerfed monster Refrigeration 10(34 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74110c2ed729 01:13:46 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:54 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2240-gc4afc85 (34) 01:15:01 -!- ertdfgcb has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:15:37 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:15:41 Now someone go update and get beat up by a shambling mangrove or something, kindly :P 01:15:56 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:30 unknown monster: "shambling mangrove" 01:16:30 %??shambling mangrove 01:16:40 %git :/ambling 01:16:41 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2199-gc539712: Adjust Swamp population tables 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c539712b13c9 01:16:57 I can't update Monster, sadly 01:20:53 Do mangroves still crank out red wasps? 01:21:17 A lot less often. I might make it a bit less, even 01:21:23 hmm 01:21:43 They only have wasps at all 20% of the time, and fewer 01:22:00 (Ravens are a more common thing for them to spit out, though ravens are a lot buffer than they were) 01:22:22 Red wasps themselves are a 1 in 3 chance for each wasp produced, if they do produce a wasp 01:28:02 %git :/harpy 01:28:03 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2240-gc4afc85: Remove harpy food stealing attack 10(34 minutes ago, 6 files, 5+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4afc85cc011 01:28:08 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:11 Also thanks for that 01:28:16 No problem 01:28:20 Really annoying for my fedhasites 01:28:42 Hey, don't screw up my reasoning with the one theoretical case where it does something 01:28:45 >.> 01:29:24 !lg * won s=god o=-n 01:29:25 16064 games for * (won): 35x Dithmengos, 211x Beogh, 214x Fedhas, 312x Xom, 317x Elyvilon, 369x Yredelemnul, 394x Zin, 412x Cheibriados, 490x Jiyva, 502x, 514x Lugonu, 623x Nemelex Xobeh, 788x Kikubaaqudgha, 898x Ashenzari, 1178x Makhleb, 1268x Sif Muna, 1502x The Shining One, 1807x Vehumet, 2036x Okawaru, 2194x Trog 01:29:33 It's still plenty theoretical 01:29:41 DracoOmega: what happens to a game where the player has forest? 01:29:45 Is forest untouched? 01:29:52 I guess that can't be... 01:30:21 No, I guess this means a bunch of things in it got nerfed 01:30:44 Or otherwise adjusted 01:30:48 so what's the point of harpies now? just fast attack in a flock? (this isn't criticism of the change) 01:30:58 Well, that was actually the point of them CURRENTLY, in practice 01:31:15 The food stealing attack was never meaningful, but against a character with lowish AC, they were genuinely quite dangerous 01:31:46 since they were so fast, they almost felt like a slow blink frog ;p 01:31:55 It was basically impossible for the food stealing to actually cause real problems 01:31:59 or a harder hitting bat 01:32:16 Even on minotaurs that carried around most of the dungeon's food with them at once 01:32:18 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:59 a reminder that you were carrying more royal jellies than is advisable 01:33:10 Well, even if you were, you could just toss them away 01:33:21 Or drop them a little bit away before engaging 01:33:28 Fly little jelly 01:33:29 Like, not that this was necessary, but you COULD :P 01:33:32 you are not safe here 01:34:59 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: re sirens, what about that sewer? 01:35:40 unknown monster: "malarious mermaid" 01:35:40 %??malarious mermaid spells:waterstrike 01:35:54 unknown monster: "sickly siren" 01:35:54 %??sickly siren spells:waterstrike 01:36:02 you cannot add anything to a vault monster monspec 01:36:03 |amethyst: Already taken care of! 01:36:14 because monster uses a direct name matching unfortunately 01:36:17 |amethyst: The effect is easier to resist and they summon very low HD drowned souls 01:36:21 sickly siren (11m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 3 | HP: 15-24 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, 07vault | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 40 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:36:21 %??sickly siren 01:36:29 I did not forget about its existence 01:36:29 <|amethyst> ah 01:36:31 siren (11m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 3 | HP: 15-24 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, !sil | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 40 | Sp: waterstrike | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:36:31 %??siren hd:3 spells:waterstrike 01:36:36 meh 01:36:38 They don't have waterstrike :P 01:36:42 Boo 01:37:13 They do something cooler :P 01:37:16 I'm going to have to not upgrade my save otherwise my VS is even more finished than it already is 01:38:03 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:38:05 i suppose i'll have to repurpose my water nymph tile 01:38:15 i have to maintain cheesecake parity 01:38:50 also somebody needs to put tile_floor_mosaic to use 01:38:56 and maybe tile_floor_etched 01:39:37 Why? 01:39:43 Nymphs stille exist! 01:39:52 because i made them and they're currently unused xD 01:39:55 oh 01:39:56 (You clearly didn't read my whole text cump :P) 01:39:59 dump* 01:40:08 not yet 01:40:15 i'm drawing floors 01:40:16 xD 01:40:31 Basically I took away waterport touch and gave them an aura of temporary shallow water that follows them around (and an HD/damage nerf) 01:40:38 Though they also inflict a little drown damage on melee attack 01:40:59 Waterstrike will have a lot more terrain opportunity in Shoals anyway, and the aura is a fallback so that you can't just draw them into land melee and avoid it entirely 01:41:08 Plus it can support the movement of some other creatures, theoretically 01:41:11 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:41:38 -!- _hayuto is now known as hayuto 01:45:43 salamander firebrand (16N) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; move: 70%; swim: 60%) | HD: 14 | HP: 54-97 | AC/EV: 5/11 | Dam: 2705(firebrand) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(74), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 984 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 01:45:43 <|amethyst> %??salamander firebrand 01:45:48 unknown monster: "nymph" 01:45:48 <|amethyst> %??nymph 01:45:59 Damnit, now the species/background selection screen isn't coming up. 01:45:59 water nymph (06m) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 36-64 | AC/EV: 4/13 | Dam: 1212(drown) | 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(93), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 670 | Sp: waterstrike | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:45:59 <|amethyst> %??water nymph 01:46:01 Yeah, I can't get crawl to load on the latest trunk version either. 01:46:09 might want to check this 01:46:14 .... 01:46:20 water elemental (02E) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | HP: 33-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 2212(engulf) | 11non-living, amphibious | Res: 13magic(immune), 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 212 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 01:46:20 <|amethyst> %??water elemental 01:46:26 DracoOmega: yeah I've got several reports of same 01:46:26 I did build before I pushed! 01:46:37 People transfer saves and the game doesn't load 01:46:39 But let me do it again 01:46:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:46:41 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: dat/des/branches/forest.des:1044: unknown monster: "treant" 01:46:53 Why did *I* never have that problem? 01:47:06 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/ceramictest.png 01:47:06 des cache can be funny at times 01:47:21 But I've rebuilt over and over, and switched branches between ones where they were renamed and ones were they weren't 01:47:31 obviously it's not contrasty enough, but is the pattern okay? 01:47:31 I suppose that just repeats your statement 01:48:03 I know HangedMan had a lot of work done in moving and repurposing those vaults, but for now I should just rename the stuff in them to make it load, I guess :P 01:48:06 (Sorry about that =/) 01:50:03 Players are demanding full refunds, it's chaos and anarchy... 01:50:32 money back guarantee 01:50:32 so nothing unusual 01:50:41 T.T 01:50:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2241-g8eb4e64: Fix an overlooked monster rename in vaults 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8eb4e64a3596 01:51:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:51:40 Can someone else test that this works for them before I execute the world's shortest-lived rebuild? 01:52:01 In case my end is still hiding problems from me 01:53:33 rebuilding.... 01:54:26 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: you didn't have any minor tag changes, did you? 01:54:29 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:30 No 01:54:33 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: that's why it broke 01:54:41 Oh? 01:54:50 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: because as far as crawl was concerned, the des cache was up to date 01:55:06 Oh, is that what it uses as the determination if a vault file is not directly modified? 01:55:16 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: since the version was right and forest.des hadn't changed 01:55:20 Ah, fair enough 01:55:36 And now I know! 01:55:46 rip trunk 01:56:03 It should be bad very shortly! 01:56:11 So that people can go have fun fun fun with new things >.>; 01:56:19 DracoOmega: it works for me locally 01:56:26 Okay, good enough for me 01:56:37 though I could conceivably have the same cache issues of course 01:56:48 It should be bad very shortly! 01:56:52 .... 01:56:56 s/bad/back 01:57:00 Yeah, same here; loaded an old save even 01:57:01 Hahaha 01:57:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: btw, the call to ouch() in the DUR_BARBS code is wrong 01:57:43 Oh? =/ 01:57:44 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2241-g8eb4e64 (34) 01:57:52 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: you pass NULL as the death_source 01:58:10 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: which I suspect means it credits the monster with index 0 01:58:16 Oh, huh 01:58:35 <|amethyst> should be NON_MONSTER if it's not supposed to be credited 01:58:41 Okay, my mistake sorry 01:58:53 At least that one shouldn't need another rebuild, I assume ^^; 01:58:57 no 01:59:01 it works fine, thanks! 01:59:11 <|amethyst> yeah, works fine now 01:59:17 <|amethyst> I removed my des cache just to be sure 01:59:41 <|amethyst> oh, cszo finished rebuilding before I did... 01:59:48 Ha 02:00:19 -!- bschlief has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:28 <|amethyst> DracoOmega is a hugeterm coder apparently :) 02:00:33 DracoOmega: when do the siren's friends trigger? 02:00:42 My siren here is just staring at me 02:00:59 A couple turns after starting to sing, assuming there aren't many allies around for it already 02:01:07 It does require deep water 02:01:51 yeah, it was in deep water 02:01:54 just didn't make them 02:02:02 and it was just the two of us 02:02:05 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [] 02:02:14 .....don't tell me everything is going to just randomly break now 02:02:28 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce (34) 02:02:38 ....... 02:02:42 Yeah, it's not working for me either 02:02:52 I am not on a roll tonight 02:03:02 I am going to guess that something got broken when I rebase stuff 02:03:21 Yes, it's not gaining the song ENCH 02:03:57 Well, the Barb thing worked! 02:04:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:04:13 Okay, I am confused 02:04:19 The code block that does it seems to have vanished entirely 02:04:20 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: nothing ever gives ENCH_SIREN_SONG 02:04:29 Yes, so it seems! 02:04:32 It used to! 02:04:37 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:39 I am looking right at where it used to be, even 02:04:44 And it's not there 02:04:57 seriously, go set up rerere it helps so much with complicated resolutions you do more than once 02:05:15 i've suffered through like a year of that before finally being shown the light 02:05:33 <|amethyst> You bug the squash like a ... something 02:06:14 I am going to try and see where it wne 02:06:16 went* 02:06:23 At least the code should still be there from the original branch 02:06:37 (Not that I couldn't recreate it, since most of the rest of the effect seems to have survived) 02:07:33 ChrisOelmueller: The confusing thing is that the siren commits didn't even have merge conflicts to resolve 02:07:40 So somehow this happened outside it 02:07:51 should I be seeing special "drown" messages from water nymph attacks? 02:07:56 I see water strike, but no other message 02:08:15 Can you breathe water, by any chance? 02:08:20 oh nm 02:08:30 I got them, so it's ok 02:08:35 (Or are unbreathing) 02:08:39 Yes, don't scare me now! :P 02:09:22 Now that I think about it, somehow the AF_WATERPORT enum showed up back again in a salamander commit and I didn't know why. I fixed that bit, but now I am wondering if other mysterious things happened. 02:09:27 i dunno what i'm gonna do with this floor either 02:09:29 Like git somehow doing some automatic merges improperly 02:09:50 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:52 Because I'm pretty sure it never asked me to resolve a conflict there 02:10:06 that happens, yes 02:10:40 I don't know a good way of catching it when it does :/ 02:11:16 Just the bad way, like now 02:11:35 <|amethyst> is -s resolve better or worse about that than the default -s recursive? 02:14:50 Okay, this is really odd. I can't even see that code in the original branch 02:15:03 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: also, it's hard to tell since the code that adds the enchantment isn't there, but can sirens use their songs on monsters? 02:15:36 No. Enough of the effect was player-centric that it was slightly awkward to seperate that bit so that they could, and I hadn't done it (at least not yet) 02:15:54 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: So they just won't use it if the foe isn't you? 02:16:25 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:16:40 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: My concern was an off-screen siren singing, because the effect would be centered on you 02:16:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2241-g8eb4e64 (34) 02:17:02 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:04 They don't sing at all under those circumstances 02:17:36 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:37 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:52 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:18:01 <|amethyst> cool 02:18:12 This was always true for them and mermaids and such 02:18:17 Since mesmerisation has no meaning for monsters 02:18:22 <|amethyst> and is that decay_enchantment correct? 02:18:40 In that it decays while she can't see you? 02:18:44 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: lump] 02:18:50 <|amethyst> decays rather than is deleted 02:18:54 Yes 02:18:58 It was basically just a means to get it to expire if she's not engaged with you for some length of time 02:19:03 Not to let you end it by breaking LoS 02:19:10 So it will endure for a number of turns 02:19:13 -!- Danei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:19 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:19:27 I spent a while tweaking the duration to feel right for this, so it's annoying that this code seems to have disappeared >.> 02:19:36 -!- wHATEver is now known as Guest84735 02:19:36 As I don't remember the numbers I used 02:19:57 <|amethyst> check the reflog maybe? 02:20:17 I am actually wondering now if it just never got commited and was accidentally discharged along with debugging code before the commit itself 02:20:25 s/discharged/deleted 02:20:28 -!- murphy_slaw has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:43 "Yup, it works, let's take out all that unneeded junk now" >.> 02:20:44 I am not sure 02:21:15 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:22:13 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:23:32 I wonder if I have some part of it saved in some old stash, maybe? =/ 02:23:58 Nope, doesn't look like it 02:24:40 Well, this is annoying 02:26:31 I rested off about 2700 hp of poison damage after fighting a naga pack with a ritualist 02:26:40 Max poison is ludicrous, yes 02:26:43 is there an upper limit on plaer poison? 02:26:55 Yes, but it's non-deterministic and deep deep red is just silly 02:27:30 (Getting that poisoned from one encounter sounds incredibly unlikely in most situations, though) 02:28:03 (And of course, there's always !curing if it happens every now and again) 02:28:55 I think localized ignite poison has no spell descript? 02:30:10 <|amethyst> also virulence, according to util/db_lint 02:30:11 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:25 Ah yes, people can read those things now, can't they 02:31:09 Hmmm... I think I am just going to have to concoct new numbers for sirens now 02:31:16 Since I cannot seem to figure out what happened with the old ones =/ 02:32:35 I guess they will be 'close enough'? =/ 02:35:05 Trying to remember if there was anything else this code did other than this, or if it mattered exactly what part of the function it was in 02:35:07 -.- 02:35:27 And I can't even blame this one on working too long today, since I apparently made this mistake last week or something! 02:43:10 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2242-g4f3d528: Properly credit barbs deaths to NON_MONSTER. 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f3d528f9858 02:46:33 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:47:43 I suspect the original code here was more complex, but I can't remember exactly how 02:51:34 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:51:57 But I guess this will do 02:52:19 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2243-g7ad9fed: Let siren song actually trigger 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ad9fedfe6f1 02:52:31 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:54:55 gammafunk: Now that I think about it, how did you even get that much poison without actually dying FIRST? 02:55:09 Since OTR does actually hurt you more than it poisons you 02:55:19 (And then the poison is still ticking each turn anyway) 02:56:26 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:57:51 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:00:36 I was tabbing through N in wiz mode 03:00:45 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:00:48 I think I died during the tab fest once 03:00:54 he also got me with -rP 03:02:39 I'm still surprised you lived long enough to get that poisoned 03:02:54 In practice, I think they should be much, much less nasty than that 03:03:15 is that assuming a char with or without rpois 03:03:24 without, yeah 03:03:25 They're fairly fragile, and one cast of OTR will probably only get you ~2 or maybe 3 levels of poison 03:03:31 because even old snake population was very good at making me rest off literal hours 03:04:15 also i hate to admit it but dwants were not yet removed 03:04:29 I didn't get to Spider 03:04:47 i don't mean that kind 03:05:21 I have little opinion on the player race 03:05:25 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:36 I haven't really looked at them closely enough to form one 03:05:57 well what's relevant right now is that for some reason they start with rPois- 03:06:22 and if in some games it's not unusual to have to do lair branches without rPois sources, that sounds really painful 03:06:57 Well, there's always the branch that is not Snake. I could be wrong, but I don't think ritualists are going to be that insane. 03:07:13 They might sometimes make you burn a couple !curing, but that doesn't sound like a bad thing? 03:07:30 (Or they could just not have rPois. I know it's been suggested a few times) 03:07:32 rPois-* 03:07:43 you're not the only one 03:08:02 I'm not the only one what? 03:08:07 suggesting that 03:08:29 DracoOmega: Did you do anything with the podes spawning in shoals? 03:09:01 They still spawn there. I tweaked the spawn weight a bit along with most other things, but honestly never looked that closely at them 03:09:17 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:20 If you mean did I do any edits to the monster itself, no 03:09:40 well I had talked with tenofswords about taking my op crusher proposal and giving its harpoon and throw to two different monsters 03:09:49 maybe harpoon to current ordinary op monsters 03:10:04 instead of one monster with both 03:10:11 ordinary op are pretty boring 03:10:18 -!- Mokka has quit [Client Quit] 03:10:56 Some plainness is okay. I haven't looked at that monster of yours, but as I said originally, that seems splashy enough that a unique is what comes to mind. I can't really venture much more opinion than that without playing around with it 03:10:59 And my brain is fried T.T 03:11:54 sure, would like to avoid a unique when we don't have exciting op monsters, but we can discuss when said brain is no longer fried 03:12:19 A unique could be an exciting octopode monster! :P 03:12:22 In theory 03:12:30 Oh, someone doing newswamp 03:12:34 I spy a lotus 03:13:53 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:59 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:57 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:17:25 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:19:47 -!- Mokkkah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:20:27 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:36 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:20:45 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:56 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:31 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:32:38 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:43:54 -!- Neremworld has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:47:40 holy shit, that's a lot of commits 03:49:11 Hehe 03:49:31 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:50:56 -!- Insomniak has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:51:29 Believe it or not, that's somewhat abridged! But I realized that a few related things I meant to tinker with could be done later. 03:51:36 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51:42 Since they weren't quite as tied up in the whole package 03:52:16 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:52:23 like finally bringing back dorgi 03:52:37 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:52:45 Haha 03:55:20 -!- Guest84735 is now known as myp 03:57:08 I should stop waiting for someone to do an edited branch and go to sleep 03:57:18 I was only working on this for like 12 hours straight today, after all 03:58:37 Do be kind and don't find any more bugs or design issues while I'm gone, hey? :P 03:58:59 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:05 I have a lot of commits to read, huh 04:01:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:39 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:13:33 -!- bd_ is now known as bd- 04:13:55 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:53 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:30:41 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:33:27 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:13 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:47:24 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:42 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:15 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:52:53 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:12 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:26 -!- Somefellow is now known as Somefello 05:08:21 -!- kats has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:24:45 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:44:04 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 05:46:23 -!- raskol_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:50:21 -!- Escalator has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:01 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:57:02 -!- myfreeweb has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 06:01:40 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:38 -!- temujin has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:08:59 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:31 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:22:26 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:20 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:30:30 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:32:56 -!- djanatyn has quit [Excess Flood] 06:33:58 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:03 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:15 -!- yalue has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:07 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:55 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59:46 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:55 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:02:48 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:30 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:07:26 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:41 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:19:13 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:21:30 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:24:42 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:26:50 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 07:27:08 bug: thorn lotus maintain range wasn't removed 07:27:35 nvm 07:28:30 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:36:27 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:38:34 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:41:54 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:42:41 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:48 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:50:42 if lair branches are being made harder, is runelock going away? 07:51:15 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:53:19 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:53:19 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:32 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:55:32 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:02:29 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:45 <|amethyst> !tell DracoOmega why do firebrands have speed 8 but 80% or less for all energies? It makes xv lie 08:07:45 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 08:10:32 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 26.0/20131215102647]] 08:11:04 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:29 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:14:38 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:15:22 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:08 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:18:40 it seems to me that a lot of the forest monsters are just doubling down on making swamp an annoying place to move around 08:18:47 i don't know that that's an improvement from a fun perspective 08:18:58 -!- Gmork has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:50 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:34:37 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:15 -!- Somefello has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:52:08 -!- Bodrick_ is now known as Bodrick 08:53:19 -!- tupper has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 08:57:18 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:16 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:41 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:07:12 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:09:12 -!- tupper has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:10:02 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:14:29 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:16:43 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:17:47 -!- nloewen has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:59 Hello, I'm trying to run crawl from trunk. It was working last week, but since then something has gotten borked for me. When I start a new game it says 09:21:04 "Lua error: global_prelude: bad header in precompiled chunk 09:21:05 No valid temples." 09:21:35 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:36 Does anyone know what could be causing this? I can't tell that anything important has changed. 09:22:26 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:24:46 Hm, local builds were set to default to OS language a while back and I just got a look at the spanish one. 09:24:52 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 09:25:02 Idk what the other translations are like but this is frankly pretty bad. 09:25:10 Probably shouldn't be defaulted to it. 09:28:07 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:29 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:51 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:41:01 -!- Mateji has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:07 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:31 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:42:43 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:43:56 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:46:04 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:46 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:46:50 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:58 how many turns does Rain from the Fed ability stick around? 09:49:26 s??fedhas[rain] 09:49:26 fedhas[3/7]: rain - creates a circle of water around you, the floor becomes shallow water, shallow water becomes deep water, randomly spawns plants and fungus 09:51:17 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:29 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:54:23 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:34 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:05:00 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:06:21 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:06:44 <|amethyst> dck: You're welcome to submit new translations: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/dcss/ and request to be added to the Spanish team 10:07:23 Was looking into how it's been handled actually. 10:07:29 <|amethyst> dck: The Spanish translations are probably less complete than French and German, but more complete than many other languages 10:07:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:07:43 because there are french and german devs? 10:07:48 <|amethyst> you can do language = en in your rc 10:07:57 <|amethyst> wheals: that helps :) 10:08:23 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:53 <|amethyst> just going by number of translated descs (including quotes), it looks like it goes: ko, fr, zh, ru, ja, de, es, pl, da, it, el, cs, fi, lv, lt, pt, tr, nl, hu 10:11:15 <|amethyst> no Korean, Chinese, Russian, or Japanese developers AFAIK 10:11:44 <|amethyst> oh, wait 10:12:24 what's zh? 10:12:28 <|amethyst> wheals: Chinese 10:12:58 <|amethyst> We may have a Russian developer; not sure where Zaba is from 10:13:06 and da? 10:13:10 <|amethyst> Danish 10:13:13 yes, that's where I'm from 10:13:17 aha 10:13:23 haha 10:13:30 zaba 10:13:35 but I'm not particulary enthusiastic about translating things to russian 10:14:24 Hrm. 10:14:46 <|amethyst> We have several Finnish developers (one active and one who shows up occasionally) but they also aren't necessarily so interested in translation apparently :) 10:15:34 Right so out of curiosity, has there been some qc for the translations that are considered good enough to be used as defaults? 10:15:44 Because while I prefer english myself, well. 10:15:50 <|amethyst> dck: nope 10:15:53 Some of this stuff seems straight out of google. 10:15:56 I see. 10:16:01 A danish translation is just about obsolete. 10:16:04 <|amethyst> dck: Might bring it up with kilobyte, it was his idea to use LANG by default 10:16:11 just about everyone knows english over here these days 10:16:24 <|amethyst> Bloax: I imagine the same is true for Fi 10:16:37 I think it may impact new players negatively to start up the game and see a translation like this. 10:18:29 <|amethyst> Bloax: What I find suprising is that we have Danish translations but no Swedish 10:19:02 <|amethyst> Bloax: given the relative populations 10:22:13 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:18 I wonder how different the two are. 10:22:23 <|amethyst> (also, what would we do if someone sets language = no instead of nn or nb) 10:22:32 <|amethyst> (not that we have either) 10:22:47 clearly it would make there be no language 10:22:47 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:00 the game would communicate using pictograms 10:23:05 no 10:23:10 only grammatical markers 10:23:23 ...? 10:23:24 ! 10:23:26 !!! ! ? !!!!!!! 10:23:29 ... 10:23:39 Save macros? 10:24:19 clearly 10:24:22 we need a vulgar translation 10:24:41 You punch the shit out of the giant newt!!! 10:24:56 The giant newt fucking dies dead. 10:26:14 <|amethyst> Or Basic English: This neck ring saves you from some brain fuzz like making mad. 10:26:35 Engrish 10:26:36 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 10:26:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:04 <|amethyst> (no, I'm not sure that all those words are actually in the BE vocabular) 10:27:05 <|amethyst> y 10:28:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:28:30 <|amethyst> Bloax: oh, hm, I had thought that Norwegian was closer to Danish, but apparently Swedish and Danish are closer 10:28:40 -!- blackflare has quit [] 10:28:48 They all seem pretty damn close. 10:29:07 Norwegian is spelled much more like Danish though. 10:29:14 <|amethyst> Bloax: I guess I was confused by Bokmål, which is essentially Danish 10:30:23 well i sure have no idea what that word could be 10:30:26 * SamB_ wonders how well the Basic English wikipedia keeps to Basic English vocabulary, and also how they name articles there ... 10:31:46 fighty red orc comes into view, holds big mace 10:32:19 toublesome blue orc comes into view, holds pokey stick 10:32:37 *tr 10:34:36 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 26.0/20131215102647]] 10:35:37 -!- nloewen has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:36:46 -!- blackflare has quit [] 10:37:48 <|amethyst> Bloax: But, yes, it is only because of politics that Se, Da, No are separate languages but Zh is one language 10:37:58 <|amethyst> Bloax: "dialect with an army" and all that 10:39:59 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:40:44 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:41:33 |amethyst: re salamander energy, it's identical to nagas only they swim fast too. 10:42:04 <|amethyst> Grunt: but firebrands 10:42:13 <|amethyst> Grunt: 8, {7, 6, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 80} 10:42:25 o_O 10:43:00 (this is what I get for commenting while at work without code in front of me) 10:44:07 <|amethyst> Perhaps xv should calculate movement speed 10:44:19 <|amethyst> since that's usually what people are interested in 10:44:23 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:44:31 has there been much discussion on setting a duration on how long the water from Fed's rain lasts? 10:47:45 Whose politics made zh count as one language? (Presumably that only refers to writing?) 10:48:46 <|amethyst> SamB_: Qin dynasty probably, also Mao to a lesser extent 10:50:18 |amethyst: Very old politics. 10:53:46 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 10:54:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:58:03 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:59:17 -!- Thomus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:59:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese 11:00:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:03:19 <|amethyst> But no one refers to Latin as "classical Spanish/French/Italian/Catalan/Romanian/etc" :) 11:04:21 except some weird linguists :p 11:05:06 I think if they say "classical foo", where foo is a romantic language, they actually mean something somewhere between latin and the modern form :-) 11:05:18 er, *romance I guess? 11:08:29 Well that's probably because Latin continued to be actively used until a few hundred years ago, so it's necessary to distinguish between Latin and the languages descended from it that were also being spoken at the same time. And there is a distinction between literary Latin and vulgar Latin (which eventually became the Romance languages). 11:09:23 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: Classical Chinese also continued to be actively used until fairly recently 11:10:03 <|amethyst> well, Literary Chinese 11:10:38 <|amethyst> but neo-/late latin and classical latin differ as well 11:10:45 <|amethyst> perhaps not as much 11:10:54 when did they stop? when all the books were burnt? 11:12:22 -!- kats has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:18 <|amethyst> that's way I said "actively used", but I guess I really meant "a major language for the production of new texts" 11:15:40 <|amethyst> s/way/why/ 11:16:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2243-g7ad9fed (34) 11:17:11 <|amethyst> well, I guess I really said it because that's the phrase BlastHardcheese used, but that's how I interpreted it there too 11:20:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:24:48 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:44 why are the spell hunger breakpoints so weird? 11:27:24 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:28:23 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:45 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:29 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:33 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:39 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:31 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:03 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:47 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:19 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:39:39 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:33 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:05 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:49 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:51:22 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:18 -!- Turgor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:52:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:57:57 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:03:28 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 12:09:51 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:07 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:44 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:20:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:58 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:22 -!- Greyr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:24:09 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:20 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:43 -!- caleba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:50 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52:05 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:21 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:52:55 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:13 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:03 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:48 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:03 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:46 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:58 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:26 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:00 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:08:15 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:21 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:59 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:18 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:07 -!- rax_ has left ##crawl-dev 13:25:47 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:27:08 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 13:27:28 -!- Ragnor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:51 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:27 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:47 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:33 * Grunt returns. 13:32:33 why are wind drakes a shoals spawn now 13:34:19 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:59 that seems really harsh for somewhere thats open and has a lot of water 13:35:14 maybe better as a (rare, very deep) lair spawn 13:35:24 it could be that both ones i saw were shifters 13:35:34 %git 236ba878 13:35:34 07elliptic02 * 0.11-a0-1552-g236ba87: Tweak hunger bar breakpoints. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=236ba87856cc 13:35:35 i dont think shapeshifters can spawn in shoals 13:35:40 rast: That's the last commit that touched those 13:39:49 Medar: i mean the base hunger costs. i don't really know or care what the display bar means 13:39:58 so your level 1 spell costs 50 hunger 13:40:07 level 2 is 45 more, for 95 13:40:24 level 3 is 65 more than that 13:40:33 level 4 is 110 more 13:40:48 Ah. 13:40:51 then level 5 is only 100 more ?! 13:41:14 then from 5 to 6 is 200 13:41:18 and 6 to 7 is only 150 13:41:32 it's all over the place and i'm wondering what the rationale behind those numbers is 13:41:48 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:23 heh heh they said rationale 13:43:08 judging from recent commits revamping various forest monsters for shoals and swamp, is it safe to assume that forest is dead and its components are to be transplanted, if so i'll get to work on revamping my forest vaults 13:43:45 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:53 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:03 nicolae-: that's the plan (https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:hangedman:forest_dispersal if you haven't seen) 13:44:47 i guess i could work on making my forest end into some other vault 13:44:55 RIP forest 13:45:05 rip in pieces 13:45:17 Chaos brand shafting: DEAD MONSTER freezes your ball python. by XuaXua 13:45:24 nicolae-: tenofswords already has done work to repurpose forest vaults, including some of the ends apparently 13:45:56 not sure when he's going to commit that, though 13:48:41 alrighty 13:48:46 though i didn't make any ends 13:48:51 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:49:08 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:30 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:06 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:10 hm, some of these can probably go, anyway 13:52:50 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:41 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Quit: Drowning in a sea of anguish] 13:53:48 is the enchantress vault going to live anywhere? 13:54:08 probably where it lived before 13:54:59 i suggested making the Forest encompass vault possibly have different enchantress vaults based on the old forest ends 13:55:29 i think he said he thought it was a good idea 14:00:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:02:07 * Grunt pulls the trigger. 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2070-g678a640: Demonspawn enemies: underlying base/non-base monster work. 10(8 days ago, 15 files, 544+ 39-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=678a640e4d1a 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2071-g1bfb6b3: Gear up demonspawn enemies. 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 171+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bfb6b331a4c 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2072-gfe637a9: A super-basic icemail effect for gelid demonspawn. 10(8 days ago, 6 files, 34+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fe637a983063 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2073-gf8cb75a: Powered by Pain for torturous demonspawn. 10(8 days ago, 7 files, 56+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8cb75a49fcc 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2074-gf2c9da4: A BEAM_AGILITY for various purposes. 10(8 days ago, 6 files, 37+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2c9da435187 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2075-g5cd3e4e: Augmentation for torturous demonspawn. 10(8 days ago, 4 files, 104+ 64-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cd3e4e3e1d9 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2076-g1f1a85a: A very exaggerated Powered by Death for putrid demonspawn. 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f1a85a004be 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2077-ga3555fd: Putrid demonspawn always leave corpses. 10(8 days ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3555fdd9910 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2078-gb9d1c37: Assign attack base damages to nonbase demonspawn types. 10(8 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b9d1c37d1373 14:03:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2079-gaed014c: Demonspawn blood saint: Legendary Destruction and support spells. 10(8 days ago, 19 files, 258+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aed014cc4cf4 14:03:08 ... and 69 more commits 14:03:10 * nicolae- clutches his chest and falls to the ground 14:03:10 you got me.. 14:03:10 ...you just might end up doing that! <_< 14:03:10 * wheals had loaded the gun with a blank 14:03:10 what did you do, grunt 14:03:10 i wouldnt be sad if the enchantress had a mysterious accident and was never seen again 14:03:10 i'm just not a fan of the "spams hexes" thing 14:03:18 oh god 14:03:21 here we go 14:03:26 oh dang 14:03:31 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:03:35 there goes EXTENDED balance 14:03:38 where are demonspawn monsters going to end up 14:03:46 Pan. 14:03:50 Pretty much exclusively Pan. 14:04:00 (Thus they turn up on the orb run occasionally, but.) 14:04:22 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:37 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:41 stupid internet 14:05:41 well, dang 14:06:11 |amethyst: I'll need to send you a patch or two for monster, probably. 14:06:28 ...once I can figure out what exactly I need to fix :) 14:06:29 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:18 -!- Amplicon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:39 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:08 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:09 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:39 damnit, I was too late for a "speak of the demonspawn" joke 14:08:39 tenofswords: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:09:25 -!- Lightli_ is now known as Lightli 14:10:47 now that two very long, wordy content proposals of mine were coded by other people, time to do important things 14:10:56 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 14:11:02 like make sure the stuff is actually balanced? :P 14:11:03 tenofswords the Lord of Shadows 14:11:09 write long, wordy comments on mantis about vaults? 14:11:53 write vault design documentation? 14:11:58 BURN FOREST DOWN 14:12:12 Just maybe go for a long walk in the park 14:12:45 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 14:13:03 Grunt: did you check min/max 14:13:15 * Grunt gestures. gammafunk suddenly stops moving! 14:13:16 Actually, DracoOmegas megapush last night broke crawl for a bit 14:13:28 so we should all try to build this 14:13:38 * geekosaur made the mistake of commenting about (lack of) documentation during one of today's concalls, and is now tasked with writing it 14:14:49 unknown monster: "monstrous warmonger" 14:14:49 %??monstrous warmonger 14:14:56 well now 14:15:06 jumping the gun a bit, aren't we 14:15:29 providing fair warning, more like 14:16:41 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 14:17:04 doctordoom (L17 DsCj) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1418: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Shoals:4) 14:17:56 PROBLEM ALERT 14:18:08 aaaand the bugs roll in... (wait servers shouldn't have those patches yet) 14:18:28 nah 14:18:28 oh, cbro does 14:18:29 that's a common bug 14:18:42 Well, it builds just fine, and when jumping into pan, I was assualted by two warmongers and a demonspawn....and a couple turns late I have grunts grand avatar tile staring at me 14:19:10 * geekosaur updates 14:19:15 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 14:20:13 that tile doesn't even have eyes 14:20:13 oops 14:20:15 Ty for the rebuild on CBRO 14:20:40 (bloody stupid old computer taking forever to compile for me to be able to finish the joke) 14:21:03 i think classed merfolk are kind of excessively common in shoals now 14:22:13 wheals: Also regular merfolk don't suck anymore 14:24:21 gj Grunt and tenofswords, looks like everything is working ok 14:24:37 !tell |amethyst monster patch for demonspawn-enemies: http://sprunge.us/DKgQ 14:24:37 Grunt: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 14:24:48 putrid Ds, maybe we can come up with a better adjective 14:24:58 festering 14:25:14 If it *smells* putrid... <_< 14:25:32 Thrkk (L20 FoHu) (Snake:4) 14:25:39 !lm Thrkk crash -log 14:25:40 2. Thrkk, XL25 VpEn, T:100861 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Thrkk/crash-Thrkk-20130724-210831.txt 14:25:45 * Grunt thumbtwiddles. 14:25:55 * Grunt thumbtwiddles. 14:25:56 !lm Thrkk crash -log 14:25:56 Thrkk (L20 FoHu) (Snake:4) 14:25:57 2. Thrkk, XL25 VpEn, T:100861 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Thrkk/crash-Thrkk-20130724-210831.txt 14:26:11 well since descriptions and messages are changed based on whether the player is a mummy and thus cannot smell then evidently those demonspawn should be the same as other demonspawn 14:26:13 Thrkk (L20 FoHu) (Snake:4) 14:26:17 when playing a mummy 14:26:54 hm 14:26:58 they should be called "lovely demonspawn" if you're a ds with the miasma mutation 14:26:59 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:14 wait, that morgue is in vaults 14:27:31 oh it's not caught up 14:27:51 delicious-smelling demonspawn if you're a ghoul 14:28:14 do demonspawn leave corpses behind 14:28:44 yes 14:28:49 edible corpses? 14:28:58 just contam 14:29:02 clearly they should be mutagenic >.> 14:29:08 YOU MORONS, LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE WROUGHT 14:29:19 putrid ds, or all ds 14:29:26 Lightli: you could already do a zig for food 14:29:27 oh 14:29:27 I 14:29:29 Now Pan-scumming is easier to do than it was before 14:29:30 know what's going on there 14:29:47 I thought pan-limiting was in the queue somewhere to address that 14:29:54 oh 14:30:05 wait what 14:30:59 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:31:07 pan-limiting? 14:31:08 not in this set of commits though, it was still being discussed (like for example whether/how to guarantee panlords, or something alomng those lines?) 14:31:36 TO THE DEVLOGS 14:31:55 oh god 14:32:00 I've done a terrible terrible thing. 14:32:11 what 14:32:15 make a maximum number of pan levels and once those are exhausted you get sent back to ones you've already been to 14:32:24 -!- archaeo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:33 I've... gotten enums out of order... 14:32:38 uh 14:32:39 that's bad 14:32:42 ut oh 14:32:48 save-compat breaking bad? 14:33:02 Grunt. Grunt! *grabs Grunt's lapels and shakes him* GRUNT YOU FOOL YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL 14:33:04 is nymph's water aura supposed to cover stairs? 14:33:15 on a scale of ijyb-becomes-gloorx-vloq to no-dump crash, how bad? :p 14:33:19 that also seems bad 14:33:26 i don't think you can have water and a feature 14:33:31 so if it does, sounds like a bug 14:33:48 well it certainly covered the stairs sprite 14:34:00 if it didn't, perhaps, outright move the stairs? 14:34:18 spriggans are in depths now, right 14:34:21 or will be soon 14:34:37 yes 14:34:50 wheals, some stats for merfolk classes: 14:34:51 impaler, aquamancer, javelineer, by depth: 2.96%|3.51%|3.86%|4.45%|4.75%, 1.62%|1.92%|2.11%|2.43%|2.60%, 0.00%|0.70%|1.25%|1.83%|2.61% 14:35:00 comparatively, previously: 0.00%|0.72%|0.95%|1.17%|1.43%, 0.00%|0.72%|0.95%|1.17%|1.43%, 0.00%|0.17%|0.34%|0.51%|0.69% 14:35:29 so javelineer are four times as common as before, sounds about right 14:35:30 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:31 (note that mons_no_monster was also done) 14:35:59 I was going to nerf shoals:5 14:36:19 shoals:4 was around the same difficulty as 4 except for the huts 14:36:48 which is supposed to be 5 in that statement 14:37:35 uh 14:37:38 grunt? 14:37:43 how bad is enums being out of order 14:38:01 let's just say i'd start stocking up on food and water 14:38:02 so bad that yaks are playable again 14:39:02 really? 14:39:09 or are you making that up 14:39:13 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:22 i dunno 14:39:23 !lg * yak 14:39:24 No keyword 'yak' 14:39:26 lightli you literally need to go to the grocery store right now 14:39:27 !lg * race=yak 14:39:28 2. darkli the Shield-Bearer (L1 MDFi), slain by a worm on D:7 on 2013-06-01 04:25:03, with 27 points after 1117 turns and 0:02:34. 14:39:47 i assume the yak bug was due to race enum overflow 14:40:02 the fabric of society is based on enums, lightli, and if the enums get out of order it'll be chaos. dogs and cats living together. mass hysteria. 14:40:10 no, it was because via option files you could choose a combo didn't actually exist 14:40:16 no, someone discovered they could set the last-race-played and crawl would honor it even when ti was invalid, IIRC 14:40:16 like MDFi 14:40:18 oh, that bug 14:42:14 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:33 !messages 14:42:33 No messages for TZer0. 14:42:42 !tell TZer0 more messages! 14:42:42 Grunt: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 14:42:45 !tell TZer0 like this one! 14:42:45 Grunt: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 14:42:53 !messages 14:42:53 (1/2) Grunt said (11s ago): more messages! 14:42:57 !messages 14:42:57 (1/1) Grunt said (12s ago): like this one! 14:43:22 it is pretty cold outside... 14:43:35 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2323-g93de46b: Antaeus buff: give him the new Flash Freeze. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=93de46b5546b 14:43:56 not cold enough, of course 14:44:00 good, he won't be popcorn now 14:44:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:15 it's like 20 degrees warmer here right now than it was early this morning 14:44:26 well you're not in canada so 14:45:07 (also those are american degrees so about half the size of real degrees :p ) 14:45:09 gasp an antaeus buff 14:45:17 Antaeus (11C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 700 | AC/EV: 28/4 | Dam: 7512(cold:22-65), 3012(cold:22-65) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 10elec++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.cold (3d32), b.lightning (3d25) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 14:45:17 %??antaeus 14:45:57 Unknown spell name: 'flash freeze' in 'throw_icicle;flash_freeze;.;.;.;berserker_rage' 14:45:57 %??hill giant hd:12 name:yeti n_rpl col:blue spells:throw_icicle;flash_freeze;.;.;.;berserker_rage 14:46:01 aw 14:46:06 yeti (02C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 48-84 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Dam: 30 | 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 775 | Sp: throw icicle (3d21), 04esc:berserker rage | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 14:46:06 %??hill giant hd:12 name:yeti n_rpl col:blue spells:throw_icicle;.;.;.;.;berserker_rage 14:46:08 Grunt: should be a yak 14:47:13 wheals: it should be wielding a big club though! 14:47:25 that sounds kind of brutal 14:47:37 (and also like it will never be in crawl) 14:47:42 compromise with a yaktaur 14:48:01 yeti (02c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 47-84 | AC/EV: 4/4 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(48) | XP: 852 | Sp: throw icicle (3d21), 04esc:berserker rage | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 14:48:01 %??yaktaur hd:12 name:yeti n_rpl col:blue spells:throw_icicle;.;.;.;.;berserker_rage 14:49:06 oh right I can also buff plane rend 14:49:19 time for a pan monster to summon treants 14:52:36 bring back pan and put him in pan? :p 14:52:56 yo dawg I heard you like Pan so, etc. 14:53:37 since forest won't really exist clearly one of the zig guarding sets instead of liches or angels or eyes should be satyrs and 14:55:27 and what 14:58:31 uh 14:59:41 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:55 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 15:03:21 erp, what is the syntax for veto in top-of-.des lua functions 15:07:08 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:07:48 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:30 There... isn't one...? 15:12:35 (afaik) 15:12:44 feature request 15:12:52 Just put function_at_top_of_des() and veto {{ return function_at_top_of_des() }} 15:13:12 pleh 15:13:17 Speaking of screenshots. 15:13:17 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/dumb/hatchesaredangerous.png 15:13:50 ( https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/dumb/cheisavestheday.gif ) 15:14:12 ??killer bee[4 15:14:13 killer bee[4/9]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3931 BEES 15:15:47 we need more bees 15:16:16 !learn add killer_bee https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/dumb/hatchesaredangerous.png 15:16:16 killer bee[10/10]: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/dumb/hatchesaredangerous.png 15:16:42 ??bees 15:16:42 killer bee[4/10]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3931 BEES 15:17:29 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:19:14 Flure (L16 DrNe) (Snake:3) 15:20:05 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:55 Flure (L16 DrNe) (Snake:3) 15:21:01 -!- ereinion has quit [] 15:21:22 uh 15:21:32 what does that mean 15:21:37 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 15:22:49 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:14 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:57 what does what mean 15:28:29 !lm flure crash -log 15:28:30 2. Flure, XL16 DrNe, T:25814 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Flure/crash-Flure-20140128-212054.txt 15:29:55 Flure (L16 DrNe) (Snake:3) 15:30:20 Flure (L16 DrNe) (Snake:3) 15:30:30 so will the enum changes result in things like demonspawn in lair branches or 15:32:36 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:48 Flure (L16 DrNe) (Snake:4) 15:33:59 !lm flure crash -log 15:34:00 5. Flure, XL16 DrNe, T:26363 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Flure/crash-Flure-20140128-213347.txt 15:34:01 inserting stuff into the middle can do that, yes 15:34:26 or segfaults when monsters attack with polearms? 15:34:48 oh, but we added all the ds enums at the end, right? 15:34:57 i hope so 15:35:15 oh, that last one does not appear to be an attack 15:35:27 but the merge conflicts might have pushed them up 15:35:31 or at least the nearest W is allied 15:35:33 if there's an issue with the wrong type, does anyone mind if i fix it 15:35:33 ug 15:35:36 on mantis i mean 15:35:38 well it's easy to check! 15:36:01 -!- raskol_ has quit [Changing host] 15:37:06 huh, yeah not added at the end 15:37:44 oh nm 15:37:49 I don't read #defines very well 15:38:17 yeah, so whenever save compat is next broken, things will be in order. but for now it gets to be ugly 15:38:59 well it does look like Ds were added before the new snake enemies 15:39:23 didnt that all sort of get merged into trunk at the same time anyway? 15:39:26 evilmike: so in current trunk, if someone had a save with new snake enemies, there'd be a problem 15:39:30 ? 15:39:32 yes 15:39:34 yeah, roughly 15:39:44 because servers don't have ds yet, etc 15:39:46 there might not be any saves with a problem 15:39:54 wheals: no, they triggered rebuilds iir 15:39:54 c 15:40:13 forgot how to check that 15:40:14 it won't help for the people who played before it was added, though 15:40:15 !version 15:40:17 trunk: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc; 0.13: 0.13.1-27-ga479965; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 15:40:21 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:28 ds was written first and committed later, that's the thing 15:40:29 "whenever save compat is next broken" 15:40:37 so like, 2019 right 15:40:37 if! 15:40:41 not when 15:40:54 ontoclasm: back in the old days it happened a lot more often! 15:40:59 i think now its like once every 2 years 15:41:06 back in MY day... 15:41:11 * evilmike shakes his cane furiously 15:41:13 wheals: yeah, but in the merge you'd want to put the ds enums *after* the new snake stuff 15:41:47 get off my porch, you demonspawn kids 15:41:55 probably there are no corrupted saves anyhow, and even if they were, the player would possibly not notice 15:42:12 well, from what you said it sounds like they'd get demonspawn instead of new snakes 15:42:40 I think it'd mean only that if they had existing new snake enemies, they'd see ds 15:42:53 gammafunk: i know, that was the problem 15:43:06 corrupted saves? 15:43:22 Unknown spell name: 'corrupt save' in 'corrupt_save' 15:43:22 %??putrid corrupter spells:corrupt_save 15:43:26 heh 15:43:35 i think people playing trunk can expect very occasional weirdness 15:43:44 e.g. ghosts 15:43:52 Are you a bad enough dude to kill the demonspawns in snake:5? 15:44:37 evilmike: it seems like every time somebody is like "well I guess it's time to bump the save version, I can't see how to make this compatible" kilobyte is like "WTF no!" and fixes it. 15:44:45 haha pretty much 15:45:57 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:46:06 I wonder if there could possibly be anything more obviously changing to the entire game than cutting D in half with branchesness 15:46:15 Looks like it was about 8 hours between the forest dispersal and the pan ....repopulation. 15:46:45 tenofswords: what were you refering to? you mean how depths was added? 15:46:46 So maybe a magical unicorn (or apis, if you like) save will appear 15:46:51 yes, that 15:46:51 SamB: except, I'm gone 15:47:00 unless around 82 commits get reverted 15:47:06 c-r-d has reasons why 15:47:16 evilmike: to what else could he possibly have been referring? 15:47:37 uh-uh, I guess I should check my email ... 15:47:38 okay, so when unsummon gets in and it's reverted we can finally bump compat 15:48:10 sigh 15:48:31 i'm gonna put my fingers in my ears and make pixel art 15:48:46 we have the best people 15:49:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:50:04 dpeg renames dithmengos to dithmenos, <3 dpeg. 15:50:15 depgnos 15:50:33 ...well, this. 15:50:59 outright lies are pretty good yeah 15:51:30 :( 15:52:36 hmm, how do you revert monster additions anyway ... I couldn't just use "git revert" for those :-( 15:52:47 dithmentos 15:52:54 the shadowmaker! 15:53:07 do it so quickly that nobody has played a game with them 15:56:20 like, I want to pull out very obvious quotes but then it'd involving using names so I kind of want to just let this slide out 15:56:37 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 15:58:30 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:00 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/ceramictest.png 15:59:25 * ontoclasm shrugs 15:59:33 makes me think of tomb 15:59:36 kind of nice but also kind of weirdly plain? 15:59:36 tenofswords: didn't we tell you about not merging origin/master into your master? 15:59:40 might just be the colour scheme 15:59:48 or likewise for any other branch? 15:59:49 tenofswords: well yeah it's two colors right now 15:59:50 that is in fact tomb 15:59:51 samb: yes, I forgot about it when doing the branch thing 15:59:54 i haven't shaded it at all 16:00:19 did that also contribute to recent problems, I already read a bunch of things and reconfig'd stuff 16:00:28 i do silhouettes first before i bother with the fiddly bits 16:00:48 i'd leave out the solid dark brown ones, i dont like how they are darker than everything else (affects the readability of where fog of war starts imo) 16:00:57 mm 16:01:00 tenofswords: I have no idea, but it's darn confusing 16:01:39 evilmike: probably a good idea 16:01:39 (public record, for the record: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CALHQh-tJTQNrtttn7YskT_okkMTyAD_T6vN%3DBCriokTKvfYJgQ%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=crawl-ref-discuss ) 16:02:08 <|amethyst> which enums are out of order? 16:02:09 |amethyst: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:02:11 i was originally going to have a lot more dark ground in it but as i've changed the weights they've started to stand out unpleansantly 16:02:26 tenofswords: hmm, one of the merges I just spotted was actually old though 16:02:49 |amethyst: the ds ones are before the new snake ones I think 16:03:01 <|amethyst> oh, so they are 16:03:10 but only 8 hours between those merges 16:03:15 so maybe it's all ok? 16:03:42 <|amethyst> they're also before MONS_VINE_STALKER 16:03:51 <|amethyst> (which din't exist, granted) 16:04:09 I hope this won't be the spectral weapon thing all over again 16:04:17 ? 16:04:23 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:36 * wheals checks tags-version.h 16:04:47 <|amethyst> no new version tag :/ 16:05:09 since people are actually around now, i might try again: if lair branches are getting harder, is runelock going to be kept? 16:05:23 um, was there a rebuild between these merges? 16:05:24 what is the intended difficultly level for a lair ending now? 16:05:31 heh, let's visit all the contraversies at once 16:05:39 <|amethyst> SamB: on at least some servers 16:05:46 why are MDs gone 16:05:48 ackack: spider 16:05:52 was there one after the most recent one? 16:06:02 ontoclasm: You took out the sexy Margery tile!!! 16:06:05 &version 16:06:14 fwiw i didn't think snake end was much harder than before 16:06:19 tenofswords: has spider changed recently? i'd argue that spider is possibly the easiest ending (other than maybe swamp) 16:06:23 i was ridiculously op though 16:06:29 <|amethyst> SamB: also on at least some of the servers 16:06:40 <|amethyst> 02:14:54 < Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2240-gc4afc85 (34) 16:06:43 <|amethyst> 02:57:44 < Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2241-g8eb4e64 (34) 16:06:47 <|amethyst> 03:02:28 < Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce (34) 16:06:50 <|amethyst> 03:16:49 < Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2241-g8eb4e64 (34) 16:06:54 <|amethyst> 12:16:29 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2243-g7ad9fed (34) 16:06:57 <|amethyst> 15:10:56 < Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 16:07:00 spider has not been changed in the bloc of recent commits and has not been in a while aside from some extra chaff in the form of formicid monsters 16:07:00 <|amethyst> 15:12:45 < Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 16:07:04 <|amethyst> 15:16:41 < Ruffell> Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 16:07:07 <|amethyst> 15:19:15 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc (34) 16:07:13 ANOTHER reason why DracoOmega should not merge stuff in like that 16:07:14 i would have rather done vaults than new swamp at xl15 i think, and from what i've seen of new snake monsters i'm guessing that's probably true there as well 16:07:19 <|amethyst> so CSZO, CBRO, and CAO all got both the old then the new version 16:07:34 solution: purge them ALL 16:07:45 shut 'em down 16:08:03 (We made a mistake in trunk? SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING.) 16:08:05 kilobyte: make it so? 16:08:11 ... 16:08:14 cut the trunk down 16:08:26 I hear brogue is pretty good.... 16:08:28 grunt forgets to rebase and we need to cut out two weeks of content work? 16:09:38 The merge didn't merge in the way I would have expected; it's not a matter of "rebasing" or not (you don't generally rebase a public branch before it lands). 16:09:50 pleh 16:10:32 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:10:55 The mistake I made was not checking that the enums merged properly (I'd assumed it would have left a merge conflict). 16:11:01 %git 91c53af68 16:11:02 07|amethyst02 * 0.14-a0-1202-g91c53af: Move around genus monster enums on compat bump. 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 22+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=91c53af680e7 16:11:02 Hrm, if you didn't rebase ds-enemies on top of trunk, would you do a merge and then some cleanup commits? 16:11:19 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:29 Yes. 16:11:33 I was thinking it should probably be reverted anyway because of the way it was suddenly landed without any consensus to do that ... 16:11:35 makes sense 16:12:21 <|amethyst> Because consensus works so well 16:12:28 which doesn't necessarily mean everything there has to be thrown out, but it DOES mean that you can't just "git merge" it again 16:12:36 <|amethyst> I'm half tempted to force-push stone_soup-0.13 to trunk 16:12:43 <|amethyst> take a mulligan on everything since October 16:12:50 nooooo 16:12:52 because there was already some consensus of the damn original project 16:12:57 <|amethyst> Since apparently we can't agree on a single damn thing 16:15:01 Arctirus (L20 DsMo) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'misc.cc' at line 1068 failed. (where = (0,0)) (Shoals:5) 16:15:04 i disagree 16:15:32 so do I 16:16:05 i like that the demonspawns somehow ended up inside the #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 block 16:16:16 i saw that 16:16:20 wheals: That's intentional; they're placed elsewhere on > 34. 16:16:28 oh 16:16:49 ah, i see 16:16:54 well, there was agreement if not consensus in the ##-dev logs, there was some agreement from other devs in crd, and the original thing started on devwiki and had several days before somebody even said they'd start working on it 16:17:28 yeah 16:17:51 <|amethyst> "Consensus" means that everyone has to agree 16:18:16 <|amethyst> and is a shitty way to develop software, but it's what we have since we stopped having a leader 16:18:41 <|amethyst> s/develop software/design a game/ 16:18:59 s/ a game// 16:20:33 My vaults for Forest, redone for other branches by nicolae 16:20:33 <|amethyst> tenofswords: first-to-push is *also* a shitty way to design/develop 16:20:33 I'm not trying to say that there was anything enar consensus, I'm just insulted about the idea that zero discussion was done about this 16:20:33 yeah, um, I cannot support such hasty merging/pushing of huge changes ... 16:21:03 and what exactly was wrong with it being done previously with e.g. crypt 16:22:45 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:22:56 does the fact that it turned out well mean it was a good idea 16:23:01 <|amethyst> I don't know what the solution is 16:23:02 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:23:14 <|amethyst> !lm cerealjynx crash -log 16:23:15 1. cerealjynx, XL27 MiFi, T:108833 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/cerealjynx/crash-cerealjynx-20140128-222245.txt 16:23:17 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:23:43 erm, i have a git question 16:23:55 if i have stuff staged, but not commited 16:24:01 are you a git y/y 16:24:03 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:07 I see a monstrous ds attack 16:24:08 and then i cahanged stuff on top of that (but haven't staged it yet) 16:24:18 can i go back to the stuff that as staged? 16:24:20 well I see a monstrous ds anyhow 16:24:21 was* 16:24:25 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:24:37 i guess i can commit it but i don't want to do that yet 16:24:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:24:41 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:24:43 if possible 16:25:08 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:25:44 ah, but there's also an N 16:26:21 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:26:25 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: git stash save --keep-index 16:26:27 ontoclasm: Google suggests: git stash save --keep-index 16:26:39 hah, okay 16:26:41 thanks 16:26:54 That puts the unstaged changes to a stash, which you can then remove with: git stash drop 16:27:14 awesome 16:27:29 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:27:46 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2324-gf7df7db: Reword an enchantment resistance message 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7df7db4351d 16:28:49 I'd personally revert and wait until everyone cools off before proceeding 16:29:02 you still have save compat problems 16:29:24 i guess you could revert both and use a minor tag to remove the monsters 16:30:09 I don't know, break save compat then? 16:30:09 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:30:28 :( 16:30:45 how long has it been since the last compat break anyways? 16:31:07 ah, I wonder if cerealjynx is an instance of a corrupted save 16:31:12 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it is 16:31:19 yeah... 16:31:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's a MONS_BLOOD_SAINT without a base_monster 16:31:28 %git d70054ae 16:31:29 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-813-gd70054a: Make it easier to test compat bumps automatically. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d70054aebf66 16:31:38 %git ed956313 16:31:40 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-109-ged95631: Bump save compat, in order to recover from monster_spells. 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 27 files, 12+ 637-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ed9563133047 16:31:47 17 months 16:31:54 <|amethyst> wheals: that one was worked around undone 16:31:59 o 16:32:02 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:32:03 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:32:04 <|amethyst> s/undone/ so effectively undone/ 16:32:11 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:32:19 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:35 so more recently? 16:32:38 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:44 %git d70054ae 16:32:44 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-813-gd70054a: Make it easier to test compat bumps automatically. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d70054aebf66 16:33:16 much less recently, I think 16:33:36 it was at the very least before i joined which was like 1 and a half years ago 16:33:37 <|amethyst> %git 0.11-a0-1473-gccafe4a 16:33:37 07kilobyte02 * 0.11-a0-1473-gccafe4a: Bump TAG_MAJOR_VERSION to 33. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ccafe4a1a0df 16:33:47 <|amethyst> last break was between 0.10 and 0.11 16:33:57 it's been quite a while since the last save compat bump that actually remained (that is, not that 0.12 one and not the aborted one planned for the depths addition) 16:34:02 isn't it 34 right now? 16:34:16 <|amethyst> wheals: right, the 0.12 bump was worked around 16:34:27 oh but the numbers stayed you mean 16:34:35 <|amethyst> yeah... there's code still in trunk to transfer games from version 33 16:34:47 huh 16:35:03 wow it's so weird to see my nick in git blame 16:35:15 maybe we could break save compat and get rid of all that cruft? 16:36:20 wheals: Don't worry, plenty of blame to go around these days :) 16:36:28 hehe 16:36:33 blame everyone 16:36:35 at once 16:37:08 <|amethyst> I think this break can be unbroken by making a new tag and inspecting base_monster on unmarshall (similarly to what I did for the spectral weapon break, but somewhat less hacky) 16:37:27 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:37:28 <|amethyst> hm 16:37:37 well, somebody should tell cerealjynk 16:37:42 poor guy 16:37:44 sure I guess 16:37:49 xD 16:37:50 <|amethyst> not something I have time or motivation to work on right now though 16:37:56 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 16:38:12 <|amethyst> Probably we should just start breaking save compat on every upgrade 16:38:18 every commit 16:38:25 every second 16:39:09 who needs control-s anyways? 16:39:23 Arctirus (L20 DsMo) ASSERT(in_bounds(where)) in 'misc.cc' at line 1068 failed. (where = (0,0)) (Shoals:5) 16:39:36 <|amethyst> When cszo first came about, it rebuilt every hour 16:39:38 !lm arctirus -log 16:39:39 1041. Arctirus, XL20 DsMo, T:61832 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Arctirus/crash-Arctirus-20140128-221500.txt 16:39:44 !lm arctirus crash -log 16:39:45 3. Arctirus, XL20 DsMo, T:61956 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Arctirus/crash-Arctirus-20140128-223922.txt 16:40:16 <|amethyst> that was undone because, when something broken did get pushed, it was hard to undo the breakage 16:40:57 <|amethyst> asking most of the servers to rebuild every time we have a massive bunch of commits has the same effect 16:41:07 <|amethyst> I'm guilty of that too 16:41:39 supposedly putting things on public branches can help 16:41:41 So basically you just couldn't transfer saves? 16:41:51 if that was done, I mean 16:42:03 re: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10721 16:42:03 -!- Wah has quit [Quit: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT'S BACON!] 16:42:14 wheals: it can! if you leave them there for long enough. and people actually want those things in the game. 16:42:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: if we broke save compat every version, yes 16:42:24 I mean, enough/the right people 16:42:29 for crash logs is the end of the message log at the bottom or top 16:42:31 how about if for some things, instead of a WEIGHT or CHANCE 16:42:43 !lm cerealjynx crash 16:42:44 11. [2014-01-28 22:37:26] cerealjynx the Intangible (L27 MiFi) ? (Depths:2) 16:42:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:42:50 instead declare each one to be "common" "uncommon" or "rare" 16:42:50 good crash message 16:42:59 <|amethyst> minmay: it's a segfault 16:43:09 <|amethyst> Let me scrounge up a backtrace 16:43:16 |amethyst: that sounds bad because they if somebody hit a bug that made their game unwinnable because it crashed every time they did X ... 16:43:18 60% chance of pulling a random common vault, 30% chance of a random uncommon, and the remaining 10% pull a rare one 16:43:29 so if you only have one of each it's 60/30/10 16:43:45 if you have 5 of each it's 12/5/2 16:43:46 minmay: what's wrong with spriggans btw 16:44:44 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/cerealjynx-crash.txt 16:44:55 in other words the weights would automatically scae with the number of vaults 16:44:59 scale* 16:45:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:45:38 then how do you test vaults without a test weight to force them to spawn 16:46:49 well this would be an alternate to WEIGHT or CHANCE 16:46:57 weight or chance would override it i guess? 16:47:13 it would mainly be for e.g. sewers 16:47:23 k 16:47:30 where you have a pile of sewer vaults and want to pull one 16:49:26 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:50:19 cerealjynx is anything if not persistant 16:50:45 I can think of a workaround for that specific crash, though it'll still have the core issue... 16:51:02 workaround for that specific crash: quit the game 16:51:44 minmay: I think the game may not even be loading 16:51:51 Probably an insta-crash 16:51:56 workaround for that specific crash: delete the save 16:52:31 Just proves that Mi are so dumb. Can't even load their saves properly 16:52:36 ontoclasm: while we're on the subject, it would be nice if &L worked better 16:52:37 Grunt says, "Care to risk it all for some fabulous fixes, mortal?" "Beware! This is a limited time offer!" 16:52:53 dck says, "You lose!" 16:53:08 ontoclasm: for example, it would be good if it generated water/lava monsters 16:53:11 and that's when you hit aa 16:53:40 I do love that nem vault, grunt 16:53:47 Last time I got a really nice staff 16:54:11 gammafunk: evilmike came up with the idea; you can thank him for it :b 16:54:21 Do you have any ideas of your own?! 16:54:38 ??bh[2 16:54:38 bh[2/4]: Grunt also has bad ideas. 16:55:04 Grunt is like some code gremlin, randomly strikes with af_implement 16:55:53 <|amethyst> Grunt: repeating what I said above: I think this break can be unbroken by making a new tag and inspecting base_monster on unmarshall (similarly to what I did for the spectral weapon break, but somewhat less hacky) 16:56:17 <|amethyst> Grunt: IMO it's your responsibility to fix it (or, alternatively, whoever clicked on "rebuild") 16:57:31 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 16:57:44 <|amethyst> I can grab you a copy of cerealjynx's save if you want 16:57:49 Please do. 16:58:31 ... it would be good if it generated water/lava monsters 16:58:38 * Grunt needs to disappear for a bit. 16:58:40 glad to see that you're a fan of them now 16:59:49 <|amethyst> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/cerealjynx.cs 17:00:12 <|amethyst> Hopefully I didn't grab that in the middle of him saving 17:00:21 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:01:42 <|amethyst> Also test with saves from before forest dispersal, and saves made afresh with the new version 17:01:45 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:13 Getting booted mid-ascent by cerealjynx 17:03:27 <|amethyst> as for a revert: would have to keep the enums and mark them as axed, but that could probably be done without breaking save-compat 17:04:13 <|amethyst> not saying I think a revert is necessary, but if that's what we decide on 17:04:43 if there's a revert couldn't you remove those enums from old games using the tag? 17:05:05 <|amethyst> wheals: right, AXED_MONSTER() already does this (turning them into ghosts) 17:05:39 ok 17:05:39 <|amethyst> as for the enchantments, some of them might require doing the work we would normally do when they expire 17:06:03 <|amethyst> dropping spells would require removing them from monster spell lists on unmarshall 17:06:13 -!- Wahaha has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:27 <|amethyst> But I think the fundamental problem is that "what we decide on" is not likely to be anything 17:07:34 <|amethyst> It's obvious even to users who don't follow the crawl codebase that crawl development has been directionless for years 17:08:02 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:16 Patch to put >100% spell failure in spell description by Siegurt 17:08:17 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 17:08:18 <|amethyst> not saying we need a dictator, but we need *some* structured way to resolve conflicts 17:08:25 <|amethyst> voting, dictator, whatever 17:09:25 <|amethyst> I'm not about to quit, but I'm scared to death to make any actual changes that aren't bugfixes or UI tweaks 17:09:42 <|amethyst> I'm not a good designer so maybe in my case that's for the best, but... 17:09:58 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:10:38 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:12:32 !seen dpeg 17:12:32 I last saw dpeg at Sun Jan 19 23:13:38 2014 UTC (1w 1d 23h 58m 54s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: leaving'. 17:12:50 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 17:15:06 As an outsider, it's pretty tough getting any form of content patches merged (that aren't vaults, and sometimes even then) 17:15:23 The iteration process is good for whatever I submit, but it's very hard getting a consensus 17:15:42 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:21 Probably it just comes down to 1) devs value their time like anyone and 2) they prefer to work on their own projects 17:17:01 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'd have committed Asterion long ago if I felt competent to judge the design 17:17:34 Yeah, my designs are rarely right th efirst time, and you've always been super helpful 17:17:48 But getting the team to agree on what needs fixing...that's real tough 17:18:15 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:27 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:20:20 <|amethyst> I learned my lesson after pushing Dj/LO/Gr, but I don't know if it was the right lesson to learn 17:21:05 <|amethyst> then again, maybe not, since I did go and push VS 17:21:22 ..and Fo :) 17:21:27 or was that 1kb 17:21:34 You maintaining experimental branches does seem to help a lot 17:21:38 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:24 <|amethyst> Yeah, I guess I didn't learn any lessons after all :) 17:22:34 If those were really easy to create and destroy, it might smooth out things a bit 17:22:48 <|amethyst> Hm 17:23:07 <|amethyst> right now it requires patches to several files in dgamelaunch-config 17:23:21 we can just add a wiki 17:23:23 Of course it's less meaningful for a single unique for example 17:23:26 dictators are good for games; the worst that happens is that we fork 17:23:40 * johnstein worked for the baseline dgamelaunch install instructions 17:23:40 |amethyst: i think you've made a very important point here about the way the project is managed. its impossbile to get a consensus from such a large and disparate team, and its easy for things to break down with the slightest miscommunication (this isn't the first time) 17:23:43 :) 17:23:57 ugh. colloquy keeps auto-emoting :( 17:24:01 haha 17:24:09 <|amethyst> Eronarn: but who would want to be leader? 17:24:23 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:35 <|amethyst> Eronarn: our last leader quit and, when he did return, explicitly didn't want to be leader again 17:25:08 Is linus available... 17:26:01 * Medar nominates !rng 17:26:19 |amethyst: i think plenty of people would be willing to do it if they knew that A) people would back them B) it wouldn't be 'for life' 17:26:55 now accepting self-nominations? 17:27:07 does anybody know how to work devotee? 17:27:10 sandman for dictator 17:27:16 maybe one or two "senior leads" each version cycle? 17:27:20 I 2nd Sandman25 17:27:41 <|amethyst> In all seriousness, I have no idea whether he'd do it, but I would nominate MarvinPA 17:28:17 <|amethyst> who has IMO shown extremely good taste in both design and development 17:28:20 and part of the current dev cycle is fleshing out requirements for the Next version cycle? 17:28:50 that might be way too naive 17:29:10 ideally it would be someone who is a good designer and a good coder (or even better, one of the rare triple-threats who can also do art), but i think anyone who has been on the project for a couple years is likely capable 17:29:19 * SamB would second, but notes that DPL candidates have to self-nominate ... 17:29:34 evilmike: art skill is totally optional for a lead 17:29:41 though good taste might help 17:29:49 yeah, for a roguelike its not important so much 17:29:53 i'd like to see some controversial/non-staple choices, fwiw 17:30:03 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:05 i'm just thinking of game development in general, its cool when you have the skills to make a game all on your own 17:30:12 like MarvinPA sure fine everyone would be okay with that, but what about tenofswords? 17:30:34 lol i think MarvinPA needs to be fine with it, before you start asking about other people 17:31:29 if the cycles are one release long, the worst that happens is there's a riot and you lose a few months 17:31:41 but the best that happens is someone comes in with a strong vision and changes some stuff in a really innovative way 17:31:43 tenofswords for dev leader. 17:31:46 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 17:31:57 oh, you were proposing tenofswords for that, i thought you were asking if he'd approve marvinpa 17:32:01 <|amethyst> Eronarn: no, the worst that happens is that extremely important and productive contributors are driven off 17:32:10 yeah 17:32:17 <|amethyst> which has happened before and sounds like it is happening again 17:32:43 |amethyst: if someone with an X month term limit drives them off forever, they were going to burn out soon anyways 17:32:56 it's not about having someone with a radical vision, its about having someone who can manage things and use their authority/clout when needed 17:33:04 Eronarn: not necessarily 17:34:09 no term limits please, anarchy sucks but bureaucracy is worse 17:34:26 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:30 I think by "term limit" he meant that there would *be* terms 17:34:32 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 17:34:36 evilmike: strong, not radical; i want to see people who will actually back something rather than punting it back to discussion 17:34:39 yes 17:34:41 not the 2-term limit we have on US presidents or anything 17:34:44 -!- praesident has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:48 I don't think the coding part is that important for leader either. Not until someone wants to radically rework the codebase or something anyway. 17:35:51 is the current crawl dev way not working or something? 17:36:02 <|amethyst> alefury: check CRD 17:36:05 -.- 17:36:09 its just kind of chaotic and it leads to drama flare ups sometimes 17:36:40 haha, QQ 17:36:43 <3 17:36:49 <|amethyst> :/ 17:37:38 <|amethyst> Whether you agree or disagree with kilobyte's design judgments, losing our all-time top committer would suck 17:37:47 yes 17:37:52 <|amethyst> OTOH, ultimatums are not a good way to do work either 17:38:06 I thought he said he was the top *remaining* committer 17:38:10 pardon my bluntness 17:38:13 but what just happen 17:38:18 did somebody set us up the bomb 17:38:27 <|amethyst> SamB: he passed dolorous some time ago 17:38:31 it didn't sound so much like an ultimatum as an "this is just too discouriging for me" 17:38:38 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:29 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:47 yeah 17:40:14 also, whether you agree with kilobyte's design judgement or not, his humor is still top notch 17:40:17 anyway, please see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.crawl.devel/1235 17:40:27 anyone confused 17:40:47 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 17:41:01 hrm, I was going to add a not to ceral's mantis report for his benefit 17:41:05 but grunt had assigned it... 17:41:13 hmm, too bad gmane can't strip the ads off these messages :-( 17:41:26 doesn't mean you can't add notes 17:42:01 Medar: yeah, I'll just do that 17:42:10 yeah, what does assignment have to do with note-leaving excactly? 17:43:56 Hey, I was just not presuming to mess with an assigned bug! 17:44:33 Especially knowing the lack of + next to my name... 17:45:15 assigned just means somebody is maybe sorta working on it 17:45:28 <|amethyst> yeah, notes are free 17:45:29 not that nobody is allowed to talk about things 17:45:39 <|amethyst> the worst that happens is people ignore your note :) 17:45:46 Sure, I'm aware. 17:46:41 ok, how about a temporary solution for now: revert today and put it in a branch, then put that branch on at least one server 17:47:02 maybe ask dracoomega first if hed be okay with that 17:48:02 the changes are certainly big enough to try them in a branch first 17:48:10 <|amethyst> reverting needs either some save compat work, or a save compat bump 17:48:12 that sounds fine 17:48:28 alefury: I like that approach 17:48:32 <|amethyst> this also requires reverting demonspawn-enemies 17:48:34 * SamB has a hidden agenta 17:48:48 hidden magenta? 17:48:49 |amethyst: I was assuming that was part of the stuff in question 17:48:51 <|amethyst> or at least making the compat stuff more complicated 17:49:00 speaking of monsters as well designed as elemental wellsprings and spirit wolves 17:49:01 considering the number of major version tags i've seen in the code i think a save compat break is maybe overdue 17:49:07 <|amethyst> SamB: "thrown directly into trunk" does not describe that branch 17:49:09 are electric eels really necessary 17:49:12 agenda sorry 17:49:29 electric eels are fine 17:49:41 i mean, water creatures are sort of innately not amazing 17:49:42 maybe talk about them later :) 17:49:44 |amethyst: okay, so, I guess I'm just confused because too much stuff got merged in quick succession then 17:49:59 but as they go eels are probably almost the best 17:50:08 since they don't submerge and have ranged attacks 17:50:19 imo 17:50:22 why does submerging exist anyways 17:50:22 los-wide ranged attacks with an often irresistable damage type 17:50:42 if they weren't los range you'd stand at los range and kill them with arrows 17:50:43 that they spam at you while refusing to get away from the deep water 17:50:48 <|amethyst> Lightli: so you can't just plink away water monsters from afar with no risk 17:50:53 the other day, a few people said that wellsprings were seeming okay-ish now, and could be left alone for the moment ... 17:51:02 they add interesting variance to water encounters 17:51:13 yeah, wellsprings felt fine 17:52:21 I mean the worst it sounded like anyone was saying at that time was that they might need more testing/tweaking ... 17:52:32 (in that order) 17:54:05 the period of time when they didn't summon, just came with a band and spammed primal wave, was wehn i thought they were the best 17:54:17 but summoning changes mean they're not that bad now 17:54:20 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:58 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:32 Note that eels have very little hp and almost no MR, so they're vulnerable to almost every ranged attack 18:00:40 or wand 18:01:09 electric eel (12;) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 1/15 | cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(12), 10elec++, 12drown | XP: 54 | Sp: b.electricity (3d6) | Sz: small | Int: reptile. 18:01:09 %??electric eel 18:01:13 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:01:13 %??orc 18:01:19 orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 18-39 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(16) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 133 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:01:19 %??orc warrior 18:01:22 <|amethyst> Anyway, forest dispersal doesn't preclude forest-as-a-rune-branch. Many monsters were nerfed as part of the move and could have "grown up cousins" in Forest 18:02:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:02:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:56 <|amethyst> but it should have gone to a branch, not because there wasn't discussion of the plan before (I disagree with kilobyte on that point), but because the particular decisions made when implementing the proposal should themselves have discussion 18:03:38 <|amethyst> or if not a branch, at least a trickle 18:03:59 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:04 Lest people get contented in the image of kilobyte as a hurt victim, I should remind you that he is lying through his teeth in that email, and it is insulting and honestly slanderous. 18:04:10 What he describes as having no support and only opposion in fact has multiple dev endorsements before it was even undertaken, a large and detailed write-up on the wiki, and it was explicitly agreed that we would try it. At the time, the only dissenter was kilobyte himself. Since then it was discussed regularly in ##-dev, and yet kilobyte persisted in painting this picture that no one supported it 18:04:10 and that his counterproposal (which people explicitly DISagreed with) was more supported, and I was simply ignoring this. 18:04:13 Many of these responses are even public record, so it should not be difficult to see that much of what he claims is outright false. 18:04:16 This isn't even about whether any of the work I have done is good or not. It's about the rather appalling way he has treated the whole matter. 18:04:17 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: yes 18:04:20 * Lightli hides 18:04:51 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I don't agree with "lying through his teeth", but I do think there was a lot more agreement and discussion than kilobyte thinks there was 18:05:02 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: that said, it should have gone to a branch 18:05:16 And frankly, were it not for his frequently poor behavior and habit of being impossible to discuss things sanely in the presence of, more things around here might be more actual discussion 18:05:24 I didn't make that decision unilaterally, for what it's worth 18:05:28 I actually asked others 18:05:55 dpeg himself said that there was enough consensus and that it had been discussed in sufficient detail, weeks ago 18:06:15 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:40 Outside of the Snake stuff, what I pushed was almost exactly what was detailed for weeks, barring a few minor implementation details and one or two changes that would be individually small enough to hardly warrent such a thing 18:08:59 Moreover, kilobyte has repeatedly insisted that his counterproposal has support that it doesn't. The way he has repeatedly characterized this recent work I have a hard time giving the benefit of the doubt as 'oblivious' instead of willfully misconstruing. 18:10:53 If you think I am just saying this because I am overly attached to my particular designs, then go ahead and delete the whole works of it. The more important point is that I think kilobyte frequently, and repeatedly, behaves in a way that is extremely difficult to coexist with and makes -dev a far more stiffling environment for honest discussion. People should not feel the need to tiptoe around oth 18:10:53 er devs because they're (legitimately) worried that they will start yet another irrational argument 18:11:16 There are many, many people who have expressed similar sentiment 18:13:03 well yeah, but he fixes lots of stuff, even the boring stuff, he's a very skilled coder who knows the code extremely well, and is willing and able to tackle coding stuff that few others are, like build issues and stress testing 18:13:44 your reaction seems justified given what you were accused of. all the things pushed recently are things i have heard of beofre at least, and i'm not even that active, i just still pay close attention to design stuff 18:13:50 so I think crawl would be a lot worse off without him than with him 18:14:13 but straight to master? really? 18:14:15 but, i do think it would've still helped a bit to push those to a branch first. to those who aren't as closely involved, it probably seemed like those commits came out of nowhere 18:14:46 this is something that has happened before to varying extents yes 18:14:50 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:52 (also, where did all of this discussion happen?) 18:15:03 the seemingly very deliberate mischaracterisation of things that is 18:15:20 a bunch of it was on the wiki, there was other stuff on the mailing list, some stuff on the forum, i guess bits on irc 18:15:29 I don't think anyone is actually deliberately mischaracterising things 18:15:32 its a mess, and thats a big reason why major changes are good to push to branches first 18:15:48 alefury: I am no longer willing to give kilobyte the benefit of the doubt on this, given how repeatedly it has happened now 18:15:52 I did so for quite a while 18:15:56 i would like to not think that also but the evidence over time seems to indicate otherwise 18:16:37 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:43 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 18:16:57 SamB: All the other large changes I did, I pushed straight to master, and somehow this was never a major issue before. And this time what I was pushing was known in far more detail in advance 18:17:19 And I had the word of more than one dev saying that it was fine not to branch it for it, who I had actually asked for an opinino 18:17:40 evilmike: What's a mess? 18:17:53 DracoOmega: the way communication is split between so many areas 18:17:56 Oh 18:18:00 its always been like this to some extent or other 18:18:00 I thought you meant something code-wise 18:18:02 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: there was at least some controversy in this case though, I think much more than with (say) crypt 18:18:22 |amethyst: As far as I understood it, the only real opossition to trying this was from kilobyte himself 18:18:27 there's never been a policy about this in any case 18:18:38 Which casts his repeated denial of any support for this proposal in an even more dubious light 18:19:02 Sure, some of these changes are experimental, but trunk is where many experiments happen 18:19:50 DracoOmega: your conjurer and vaults changes were tested a lot before being pushed, and I think that those are by far your best creations 18:19:54 I just think, if communication is an issue here, it's a consideration for future large projects 18:20:30 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:37 how about, it shoudl be in a branch if it's more than 10 commits 18:20:53 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:01 That seems like a fairly arbitrary standard given that how impactful a commit is varies tremendously 18:21:03 well, it has to do with the scope of the design too, like no one cares if you push 10 trivial fixes 18:21:13 or are just tweaking some things 18:21:27 well, okay, yes, but you shouldn't push a branch to trunk, like, ever 18:21:28 evilmike: Personally, I think that kilobyte himself is one of the biggest issues to communication that Crawl development in general has, if I may be quite blunt 18:21:54 SamB: That's ludicrous. It happens all the time, and I did many times before, and other people do it, and it was never a giant controversy 18:22:28 DracoOmega: but we talked about this JUST THE OTHER DAY 18:22:41 just because it sort-of worked out does NOT make it a good idea 18:23:37 <|amethyst> yes, kilobyte does also make large pushes to trunk, though they're not usually all on the same topic and mostly tweaks with a few controversial things thrown in 18:23:47 SamB: We talked about it the other day, when? Like, about what? 18:24:05 DracoOmega: your habbit of pushing large piles of commits to master 18:24:13 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:37 Um... I believe the topic was the idea of it being done in private instead of public 18:24:42 So, um, I made it public more quickly? 18:24:48 In case people were wondering 18:25:21 um, pushing to master at an earlier date helps HOW? 18:25:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:26:37 What's wrong with just pushing to a branch first? 18:26:41 hmm i can think of one case (it was someone else's commits) of that which was a problem in the past 18:26:52 Even kilobyte does that 18:27:02 Plenty of times he doesn't! 18:27:03 it wasn't so much drama, as it just broke everything and there needed to be some messy stuff with git to fix it 18:27:40 but anyway, I agree most of the time that sort of thing goes off fine.. it's just that there's a potential for it blowing up 18:27:54 Well, the issue at the moment doesn't seem to be that my code broke anything 18:28:01 DracoOmega: usually those are smallish plles of mostly-unrelated commits, not large changes 18:28:13 <|amethyst> well, that was also partially because Grunt waited until DracoOmega was finished and then merged in his already-public branch afterwards 18:28:47 <|amethyst> The only way waiting would have fixed anything is if DracoOmega could have avoided the merge problem where Grunt failed to 18:28:53 <|amethyst> s/waiting/a branch/ 18:28:55 I'm not sure it's a good idea to take dpeg's advice in non-design matters 18:29:08 <|amethyst> talking about the save compat issue that is 18:29:14 |amethyst: I was under the impression he planned to rebase against the new changes; otherwise why wait? 18:29:14 |amethyst: or if someone else spotted it 18:29:19 Can we maybe agree that replacing like half the enemies in three branches with new ones warrants a little bit of extra testing? 18:29:27 alefury: yes 18:29:28 i think everyone agrees that 18:29:32 What testing is it going to get sitting in some branch? 18:29:39 well, yeas test it in trunk 18:29:44 <|amethyst> SamB: by the same argument, Grunt should have done the merge in his branch and then waited for a while before pushing to master 18:29:48 i dont care if experimental changes are in trunk, stable versions exist for a reason 18:30:01 |amethyst: possibly true 18:30:06 evilmike: Yes, but the point SamB seems to be arguing is that it shouldn't have GONE into trunk, because it's experimental 18:30:16 I decided to stopt trying to say anything about grunt's branch 18:30:38 Obviously it needs a lot testing, at best, sure 18:31:07 I thought it should be allowed to sit in a branch for a few days 18:31:32 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:39 Part of the problem seems to be if it does go in a branch, it often isn't going to see much attention other than from the branch author... 18:31:44 How does 'sitting in a branch for a few days' help any of this? 18:31:50 If it's just sitting there? 18:32:13 branches like this should of course also be playable online somehow 18:32:15 it's more visible than random dev wiki pages? 18:32:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: If you had pushed early and pushed often, you wouldn't have lost your siren song code 18:32:34 |amethyst: No, I think that was lost in the initial commit 18:32:39 |amethyst: Just never commited properly 18:32:42 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: ah, not a rebase issue 18:32:44 Yeah 18:32:47 also, it's a clear message that the branch author wants to merge this after a short time of testing 18:32:53 i think the problem was that you tried to combine doing it in private and doing it in public 18:32:57 I think I deleted it along with testing code by accident, when I cleaned up just precommit 18:32:57 (part of it) 18:33:41 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: still, I think it is for technical and not design issues that it should have gone to a branch. A huge change with lots of new monsters while someone else is also working on a huge change with lots of new monsters. 18:34:03 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: just from a software engineering and integration point of view 18:34:06 |amethyst: Well, this is why I thought it was agreed that one of us would go first, then the other person handle properly merging it into it there 18:34:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:11 That was the impression I was under 18:34:25 I mean, maybe I misunderstood, but.... 18:34:31 and, you know, to avoid surprising people with this huge pile of changes ... 18:34:37 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: Yes, I just think the already-public branch should have gone first 18:34:48 SamB: How is it a surprise to anyone?? It was discussed nearly daily for a week or two! 18:34:49 also possibly splitting your snake edits and the work on forest dispersal maybe 18:35:59 I don't really remember hearing about a bunch of half-baked monsters ... 18:36:06 Half-baked? 18:36:26 <|amethyst> I didn't hear discussion of all the new snake monsters 18:36:45 there was a little a few months ago when grunt made the branch 18:36:46 I mentioned some of what I was doing with them, and the base of it was in a public branch. Besides... half-baked? 18:36:48 monsters are assumed half-baked to begin with 18:36:52 <|amethyst> not that, by itself, that would have needed a new branch or anything 18:37:46 fwiw both newshoals and newsnake seemed fine to me 18:38:21 so, how was I supposed to find out that https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:hangedman:forest_dispersal existed ... 18:38:34 <|amethyst> SamB: it was mentioned on C-R-D and in here several times 18:38:34 crd? 18:38:37 and was endorsed by more than one dev? 18:38:38 SamB: Maybe by it being discussed here repeatedly? And the stuff on c-r-d? And elsewhere? 18:38:39 hmm. 18:38:40 DracoOmega: i don't think anyone wants to antagonize you, it's just a large amount of changes all at once 18:38:47 ontoclasm: At least one person does 18:39:10 and yes, large amounts of changes at one time tend to freak people out in general 18:39:16 even kb doesn't dislike you, he just thinks there should have been more oversight 18:39:18 which is kind of what the branches are for 18:39:23 DracoOmega: see, i think the confusion is that to those who missed the discussion, the new monsters seem sudden. thats why from a design point of view, imo a branch is nice for that 18:39:55 i think people are also freaking out a bit because of the save compat issues (not that that was anyone's fault really) 18:40:01 the ideas arent half baked, remember hearing about them weeks ago, but many people just didn't see it, or forgot, or whatever 18:40:12 you know, kb's pretty open plan of making a matyr of himself because he couldn't get his way worked 18:40:24 <|amethyst> I think C-R-D gets enough bleh stuff that lots of people more or less ignore it 18:40:26 and it's nice, even if you can simply go, "hey look, the monster was in a branch for a while now, why didn't you say anything then?" 18:40:27 ontoclasm: I don't care whether he likes me or not, but he has repeatedly lied about what I am doing and what people have said about it while propping up his own counterproposal with support it does not have, to say nothing about insulting my other work and acting extremly immaturely repeatedly 18:40:37 I just don't often read my mail at all ... 18:40:55 well, okay, but in general everyone should probably remember that we're making a game 18:40:59 DracoOmega: don't assume malice where ignorance would explain things 18:41:17 SamB: I assumed ignorance for a long time, but the odds have long since been strongly against that, as far as I am concerned 18:41:23 we're doing this for fun, presumably 18:41:35 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: also, kilobyte wasn't the only sceptic; also MarvinPA 18:41:40 and note, nothing i say is trying to assign blame or guilt here, it's a mistake and maybe one I could have made too. it's something that can be avoided down the road though 18:42:02 |amethyst: It's not about being sceptical. I don't even mind if this stuff turns out to be a bad idea! I am willing to accept that. 18:42:27 DracoOmega: branches are also helpful in terms of reverting stuff, btw 18:43:01 <|amethyst> SamB: only really if you merge, right? 18:43:10 well, yes 18:43:16 DracoOmega: well, I guess kb is pretty angry, and that can cloud perception considerably. I believe he is truthfully representing how he sees the situations. 18:43:17 <|amethyst> SamB: rebasing onto trunk is usually prefered 18:43:24 cerealjynx (L27 MiFi) (Depths:2) 18:43:31 alefury: Then he is dangerously blind for the power he wields 18:43:33 <|amethyst> SamB: and it wouldn't really help then 18:43:42 DracoOmega: well, yes 18:43:49 |amethyst: I didn't really think it was preferred for big branches 18:44:25 <|amethyst> SamB: I guess it depends on who you ask, but I know kilobyte has complained about huge merges making history messy 18:44:27 DracoOmega: or maybe just not reading the entire channel logs every day ... 18:44:32 it is pretty saddening to compare this to the original mistake of merging in grunt's forest (public, waiting around) which had pretty massively broken things that people forgot about in the wake of it all being replaced 18:44:34 |amethyst: hmm. 18:44:49 <|amethyst> especially repeated merges, which is what you end up with when you try to preserve history completely 18:45:18 |amethyst: yeah, okay, maybe I'm wrong about that part 18:45:32 In any case, I was very hesitant to return to Crawl development after all the unpleasantnesses surrounding my previous withdrawl, but decided that I wanted to see if I could cap off the mess surrounding Forest with what seemed like possibly the best plausible end for it. I wasn't sure if I intended to remain afterward, but after this, it is clear that I don't 18:45:36 but it is pretty useful for avoiding people claiming "WTF WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS" 18:45:48 I certainly prefer being able to see what actually changed, which is pretty much impossible without rebasing 18:46:05 |amethyst: Wouldn't it be reasonably not difficult to have some kind of "unit test" for comparing enum.h between a to-be-built version and the last build? At least on one "initial test" server? 18:46:24 I'm just thinking for things like the monster enums or anything order-sensitive 18:46:28 kilobyte's demeanor is more toxic than perhaps you even realize, having grown accustomed to it, and if you want to chaulk this up to anything, you can lay it at his feet. I think he repeatedly gets away with throwing his weight around simply because he is willing to behave more badly than anyone else in the room 18:46:49 gammafunk: not a bad idea 18:46:51 And I am not willing to remain in such an environment. It just isn't healthy 18:47:08 -!- Greyr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:47:22 DracoOmega: well, don't say I didn't *warn* you about pushing big piles of stuff to master ... 18:47:59 SamB: Oh, would you just STOP about that already? You're not helping. 18:48:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, with the right make targets and git hooks you could probably ensure that merges and large rebases don't alter the numbers of existing enums 18:48:08 That is hardly the core of the problem here 18:48:09 well, while i can understand that you feel insulted, in all honesty, your changes - both now and the first go round - were quite sweeping, and quite different from the norm 18:48:13 Whether or not it could have been handled better 18:48:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you'd need to make a list of which enums are important for save-compat purposes, but that's a good thing to do anyway 18:48:37 DracoOmega: are you a licensed insultologist? 18:48:54 i mean, you've basically rebuilt snake almost completely 18:49:16 you can't expect that to go in without some level of argument and some dissenting voices 18:49:16 I mean, are you licensed to interpret things of this nature to determine what exactly is the core of the problem ... 18:49:22 I can't come up with any bigger statements to be ignored that weren't already covered 18:49:33 <|amethyst> I don't think having it in a branch would have avoided our current situation, just put it off 18:49:37 ontoclasm: That's not the issue whatsoever 18:49:56 ontoclasm: I fully expect people to raise issues with the redesign, and I expect some of their complaints to be completely legitimate, and I expect I made misjudgements 18:50:01 ontoclasm: All of which is beside the point here 18:50:04 tenofswords: I think you're saying good things :) 18:50:21 It's that honestly and reasonable discussion cannot barely EXIST here sometimes 18:50:25 DracoOmega: well, we like things of that nature in branches for reasons ... 18:50:26 oh, I can think of one 18:50:58 * Grunt finds another demonspawn marshalling bug while working on fixing the enum thing. 18:51:10 horray 18:51:11 perhaps mostly because it makes it easier if we don't instantly have to worry about compatability ... 18:51:27 it's that if there weren't crash problems attached to a small amount of mismanagement people wouldn't have cared in the end and it would be all pared down simply by being in trunk 18:51:27 Whether or not it's in a branch is just a technical point. I don't see how it's such a big deal in this discussion. 18:51:34 when we want to not use parts of it 18:51:37 <|amethyst> SamB: I don't think kilobyte's complaint had anything to do with save compat issues 18:51:43 dracoomega is pretty much accurate here re toxic behaviour yes, it is not new and committing lots of good code does not make up for it 18:51:44 Stuff is not put to trunk, because it's done. More like the opposite. It's either polished or reverted. 18:51:49 <|amethyst> SamB: and I don't think it was about software engineering practice 18:51:54 hmm. 18:51:58 I feel like there is a problem with how dcss is developed (can be rather unstructured, leads to miscommunication) as we are seeing here, but it also seems to me that there is a separate problem where DracoOmega and kilobyte just don't see eye to eye. In particular DracoOmega is very offended 18:52:25 the two issues are tangled togethere but the latter would have been triggered by something eventually anyway 18:52:28 well, things suddenly appearing in master causes psychological distress in certain people ... 18:52:28 <|amethyst> SamB: So there are two entirely separate points to be made, and I think we already made the technical/git practice one sufficiently well. 18:53:03 <|amethyst> SamB: as well as the "let us know what's going on" one 18:53:12 (a third has also been brought up, that of design, but I think it's easier to separate and less emotionally charged) 18:53:16 yeah, okay, sorry 18:53:43 it would not take much effort looking through long public records to find large amounts of time when everybody didn't see eye to eye with kilobyte 18:53:52 evilmike: I'm pretty sure kilobyte is more offended 18:54:22 Yes, as far as I am concerned, it's not about any of my monster designs being potentially bad (which probably some are, and certainly many could use tweaks). A discussion I would have happy to have if it could take place rationally. 18:54:25 (not saying he's right) 18:54:45 as a neutral party, I would like to bring up the response to the unsummon branch as an example of such a time 18:55:07 never saw so many people object to a proposed change at once 18:55:22 Which, I should point out, he later one denied happened to that degree at all 18:55:26 on* 18:55:42 In fact, saying the only reason he had not yet merged it was because he couldn't figure out how to do with Tomb and such 18:55:55 Despite vehement, immediate, and widespread disagreement 18:56:29 I am fine with having design disagreements with people, but that is simply acting in bad faith 18:57:51 -!- Turgor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:58:42 Yeah, it seems there's a need for a relatively neutral design lead who's willing to corral opinions and sign off on larger-scale changes. 19:00:33 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:06 it could happen, but it would have to be someone who's been around for a while, and i'm not sure a volunteer exists 19:01:50 -!- praesident has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:03:10 <|amethyst> Doesn't have to be one person either 19:03:17 <|amethyst> could be a voting praesidium 19:03:20 Mhh. Things that would maybe help with that: 1. The term thing already mentioned, specifically there should not be any assumptions about who's going to do it after the next release. 2. A deputy 19:03:22 i'm not being a pessimist though, i was thinking that it could be a 19:03:25 yeah amethyst beat me 19:03:31 <|amethyst> but this isn't addressing DracoOmega's points at all 19:04:14 I think his main point is that kilobyte is a jerk and has been for a long time 19:04:36 "hooray, that's settled with" 19:04:45 Addressing that would mean discussing whether you want him to be part of the crawl dev team or not 19:04:51 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I think the issue is that some people don't want to speak ill of somebody publicly, however common that might have become recently 19:04:51 Okay, sanity check: 19:04:53 http://sprunge.us/XANV 19:05:11 but what is the public for if not discussion 19:05:26 being able to say there was discussion, perhaps 19:05:33 -!- praesident has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:39 (perhaps I should go and generate a test save from some of the in-between commits) 19:06:21 * SamB goes to find something more rewarding, like reporting bugs that are probably not the fault of the package he's reporting them against ... 19:06:46 <|amethyst> Grunt: wouldn't unmarshalling the draco_type for DS break old saves? 19:07:01 |amethyst: Yes, and neither did I, and I understand the various reasons for this. But letting something toxic remain as-is because no one wants to rock the boat is how long-term problems can and have become entrenched 19:07:25 |amethyst: that's why it's checking for the minor version in the unmarshalling. 19:07:35 (note how that code's in the TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 section) 19:08:01 (And the version that doesn't check for it... isn't.) 19:08:45 <|amethyst> perhaps we need an invite-only ##crawl-official or such for private conversations that require more immediacy than email 19:09:07 <|amethyst> Grunt: right, I meant old like a week old 19:09:13 ##crawl-dev-dev 19:09:17 <|amethyst> Grunt: before the DS changes were committed 19:09:18 there should probably be (private) logs too 19:09:21 <|amethyst> Grunt: will still be 34 19:09:26 because not everyone is around all the time 19:09:30 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:09:35 |amethyst: in which case minorVersion is going to be less than TAG_MINOR_DEMONSPAWN :) 19:09:56 <|amethyst> err 19:10:00 <|amethyst> I completely missed that line 19:10:01 <|amethyst> sorry 19:10:08 <|amethyst> I was looking at the marshall code :/ 19:10:16 I don't think that it'd work out well to add another devteam discussion channel, even if it manages to be more controlled than the current mediums 19:10:42 <|amethyst> not discussion exactly 19:10:52 we have the private mailing list, but I think theres value in having "business" type stuff in a private channel like that 19:10:53 <|amethyst> the private list gets used a few times a year 19:10:59 having one irc channel, email list, wiki, and tavern is already too much for me as a sometimes-dev 19:11:02 as long as we have a rule for the channel that says "no game design talk" 19:11:24 <|amethyst> nothing technical either 19:11:31 & demonspawn (sleeping) 19:11:32 uh oh 19:11:45 I don't even have a tavern account 19:11:49 <|amethyst> but Zannick does have a point, devs have a lot of places they "have to" pay attention to 19:11:50 wheals: ? 19:11:55 <|amethyst> SamB: that's a good thing 19:11:55 and I don't ever check wiki 19:12:05 SamB: sure you do, its your mantis account 19:12:08 it's on depths:1 19:12:14 it probably should not be there 19:12:16 wheals: shapeshifter? 19:12:16 is it just a shapeshifter 19:12:25 oh, they can have shapeshifters? 19:12:26 ok 19:12:26 SamB: N hosts both and they share the same account db 19:12:34 <|amethyst> Wiki I think isn't useful for discussion exactly 19:12:39 _The demonspawn's shape twists and changes as it dies. 19:12:40 ok, thanks 19:12:41 <|amethyst> it's useful for what tenofswords did with it 19:12:53 ...okay, I think it does what it is supposed to. 19:12:54 alefury: oh, right, well ... 19:12:57 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:58 ;) 19:12:59 yeah, long-term planning documents 19:13:01 it used to be "big design changes" go on the wiki (and presumably still is) but tavern is more...i dunno...populated 19:13:03 <|amethyst> put something up, link to it, and revise it to take comments into account 19:13:10 !messages 19:13:11 No messages for TZer0. 19:13:34 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2325-gf687a29: Fix saves broken by enum bump in demonspawn-enemies merge. 10(10 minutes ago, 3 files, 167+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f687a291e619 19:13:36 I wonder if I should use it again for a summary of what changed 19:13:40 I'm going to pause for a moment here before I hit the rebuild buttons. 19:13:47 <|amethyst> Zannick: Tavern is a terrible place for a frequent contributor to work, because it's so full of crap as well 19:14:02 Grunt: where you mean like a half hour? 19:14:07 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:18 i just don't have the time to peruse wiki and tavern, so i just kind of tune in and out of irc and email 19:14:23 <|amethyst> Zannick: I shouldn't say "crap", but suggestions that are poorly considered or otherwise unattractive 19:14:33 crap is fine 19:14:43 I prefer shit myself 19:14:47 |amethyst: come on, it's a WEB FORUM, some is going to all of the above 19:14:50 ...for however long it would take for someone to notice something horribly out of place in that code :| 19:14:58 "we already put up with shit for a long time already" 19:15:20 I'm so used to doom drama that for me it's just barely messy. 19:15:31 <|amethyst> SamB: right, usenet would be the same, and crd would if we encouraged outside proposals there 19:15:33 Grunt: rebuilding and going to load an older save with some of affected monsters 19:15:39 gammafunk: thanks! 19:15:40 so, how about we switch to gerrit and make it require several devs to agree with any commit ;-P 19:15:51 Not that quite a bunch of ideas are embarassing to look at. 19:16:04 aren't* sheit 19:16:06 Bloax: doom drama? 19:16:12 <|amethyst> Grunt: let me look some more 19:16:17 they have public design discussions about doom? 19:17:43 ASSERT(idx >= TILE_MAIN_MAX && idx < TILEP_PLAYER_MAX) in 'rltiles/tiledef-player.cc' at line 9657 failed. 19:17:46 ASSERT(idx >= TILE_MAIN_MAX && idx < TILEP_PLAYER_MAX) in 'rltiles/tiledef-player.cc' at line 9657 failed. 19:17:49 Grunt: ^^ 19:17:57 bluh 19:18:13 crawl loads, but the save crashes 19:18:23 SamB: I've been active around the doom community for a couple of years before falling into a deep slumber. 19:18:40 Well, good night, please no more crawl drama. Also someone should fill in the devs who weren't around because making anyone read today's log in full would be pure torture and crd isn't even telling half the story. 19:18:40 ...that isn't even related to anything I was doing :( 19:18:43 At which point I kind of casually merged with this place. 19:18:44 <|amethyst> Grunt: yeah, seems reasonable to me but I haven't tested it 19:18:49 <|amethyst> Grunt: you did, right? :) 19:19:04 so there are MORE problems to fix? 19:19:12 |amethyst: cerealjynx's save works fine (and it assigns the right monster to the bogus monster causing issues)... 19:19:14 the tavern has a tendency to get out of focus and come up with dumb ideas but that's about all i see there 19:19:29 <|amethyst> Grunt: also an older save from before either branch landed? 19:19:59 <|amethyst> Grunt: and a save from after both branches but before this commit 19:19:59 |amethyst: those work fine too. 19:20:01 |amethyst: I just got the tiledef-player.cc assert above 19:20:27 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:20:30 hrm, that was Updating 93de46b..f687a29 19:20:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: where? 19:20:36 gammafunk: do you have anything on your trunk? 19:20:36 <|amethyst> gammafunk: do you have a backtrace? 19:20:38 * SamB ponders the idea of transcribing all T-R-D emails into git commits somehow ... 19:20:43 er. 19:20:46 C-R-D 19:20:48 no, this is just master 19:20:54 i'll pastebin the morgue 19:20:57 <|amethyst> Troll-Ref Discuss 19:21:12 The deep troll designer shouts! 19:21:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: is it repeatable? 19:21:18 i once had an old idea for a troll irc bot based on ??badideas 19:21:22 or maybe we could just have 19:21:26 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you have gdb, right? 19:21:32 basically it would mimic the commit messages from chei (or whatever the previous bot was), but use badideas 19:21:33 er, have Cheibriados announce them? 19:21:39 (Iron)Troll leatheR armour Discussion 19:21:45 http://pastebin.com/SgumjRsu 19:22:01 no, wait, people would still miss that ... 19:23:27 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, not terribly useful without seeing the relevant numbers 19:23:42 |amethyst: yeah, repeatable, what would be helpful to do in gdb though 19:24:12 <|amethyst> see what the involved tile numbers are 19:25:45 gdb backtrace: http://pastebin.com/TmEUWAny 19:25:59 idx=0 19:27:03 So this was between tenofsword's Anteus buff (save created) and Grunt's latest commit 19:27:25 gammafunk: can you send me the relevant save? 19:27:28 Had Sal. Mystic, Naga Ritualist, and a Ds blood saint in LOS in the old save 19:27:37 sure 19:28:10 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:00 Hrm, where to upload a binary? 19:29:37 I have a tendency to use dropbox for things like that, but whatever works for you... 19:29:54 (You could even e-mail it - pick a commit of mine for the address <_<) 19:30:17 Grunt: wouldn't he have to remember your name to find such a commit? 19:30:22 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:28 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:32 %git 19:30:32 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-2325-gf687a29: Fix saves broken by enum bump in demonspawn-enemies merge. 10(27 minutes ago, 3 files, 167+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f687a291e619 19:30:38 okay fine 19:30:41 Hey, look, I made the last commit! <3 19:31:02 (sorry, that probably sounded overly snarky) 19:31:47 Grunt: emailed 19:31:57 * SamB was about to concede that /lastlog would probably suffice to find one, anyway ;-P 19:32:03 gammafunk: got it 19:32:53 Hope this isn't all due to not running make clean or something 19:33:05 <|amethyst> if it is, that's a bug too 19:33:38 <|amethyst> unless something on your side touched the wrong timestamps, etc 19:34:03 test.cs: save file corrupted -- empty block 19:34:05 hm 19:34:13 * Grunt ponders if this is a failure to e-mail it properly or? 19:34:45 yeah, I'd wonder about that too.... 19:34:53 Do you have a checksum tool handy? 19:35:01 sha1, md5, ... 19:35:08 probably, but you'd have to tell me what to do... 19:35:18 sha1sum test.cs and/or md5sum test.cs and/or ... 19:35:21 sha1 is avail 19:35:24 'kay 19:35:46 ...tell me what the output is then :) 19:35:54 ad521d2fe47e1d9f9ffa57d96480212bda47c70e test.cs 19:36:01 4cf3b067cc2ba05889530420da847e4ea739af61 test.cs 19:36:04 doh 19:36:04 ...yeah, something went wrong. 19:36:10 silly gmail 19:37:01 well, guess i need to make a dropbox account then... 19:37:23 wait, one sec 19:38:40 gammafunk: doh 19:38:45 gammafunk: I saved it wrongly somehow locally. 19:39:37 gammafunk: does this game load fine if you try running it in the immediately previous commit? 19:39:40 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:17 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:40:43 I can build and try 19:40:54 monstrous warmonger (116) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 165-197 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 30, 10, 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(60) | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1940 | Sp: melee, sap magic, grand avatar | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:40:54 %??monstrous warmonger 19:41:07 Oh right, there was something I forgot to work into that monster patch. 19:41:08 that is pretty low mr 19:41:10 Well the previous commit 19:41:18 is just a trivial message adjust 19:41:21 monstrous blood saint (126) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 141-160 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 10, 10, 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2190 | Sp: legendary destruction (42d1), melee, ephemeral infusion | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:41:21 %??monstrous blood saint 19:41:26 42d1 19:41:29 since my save is from tenofsword's antaeus buff 19:41:54 42d1 is probably a pretty good damage roll for monster iood :P 19:42:41 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:32 searching ?/s for black mark doesn't find anything, though it seems to have a description in the database 19:44:21 N78291: If I search mark, I see it listed 19:44:26 along with sentinel's mark 19:46:22 gammafunk: I just get sentinel's mark 19:46:34 hrm, version? 19:46:35 woo, 6s 19:46:45 gammafunk: do you have the original version of this saved game, i.e. the one that still has the old version tag? 19:46:47 0.14-a0-2322-gd3498fc 19:47:14 Grunt: as in, one where I hadn't tried to load it in latest trunk? no 19:47:18 I could recreate it, of course 19:47:48 But is it changed if the game crashed during load? 19:47:57 or I may be misunderstanding you 19:47:59 Apparently; this claims it was saved in trunk. 19:48:20 This games comes from an incompatible version of Crawl (0.14-a0-2325-gf687a29). 19:48:31 ok, let me go recreate it; also helps confirm it's not some weird make clean issue 19:49:51 I'll build f7df7db43 and make the save 19:52:46 grand avatar (06R) | Spd: 30 | HD: 5 | HP: 50 | AC/EV: 20/5 | Dam: 30(reach) | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 08acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 0 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 19:52:46 %??grand avatar 19:52:55 does that HD effect its accuracy 19:54:02 putrid black sun (136) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 58-91 | AC/EV: 6/26 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1175 | Sp: b.draining (3d22), malign offering (2d20), black mark, dispel undead (3d24), 04esc:death's door | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:54:02 %??putrid black sun 19:54:32 one of the ds (the chaos one I think) managed to agility me, not sure if that is intended 19:54:45 intended 19:55:06 the ds should have been given agility in the same action 19:55:45 yeah, chaos mirror does the same chaos effect to you and the caster 19:56:02 hm, i've been getting "The strains under the huge effort it takes to resist." with agony even when it seems my chance isn't very good 19:56:05 the unemployed ds seemed mostly ignorable (but then again, so were the things they replaced) 19:56:07 am i just being unlucky... 19:56:28 well, they were meant to cut into pan smoke demons/neqoxecs, so, mission accomplished? 19:57:03 !wtf dsun 19:57:03 Unemployed Demonspawn 19:57:05 <3 19:57:43 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:57 Grunt: shadow mimic triggers on dig spell 19:58:12 hehe 19:58:21 what about apport? 19:58:36 Monsters can't cast standalone Apportation, so. 19:58:41 ah 19:58:47 fr? 19:58:53 -!- raskol_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:07 apport war between player and the goblin with the rod of apportation 19:59:14 (I think I did that once a long time ago; gave it to Maurice.) 19:59:42 now I am imagining casting simulacrum and a shadow apporting a corpse, chopping it up, and casting simulacrum in one turn 19:59:52 ...heh. 20:01:11 joke fr: if every single other fixedart is generated in a game (presumably via ridiculous amounts of zig-scumming), then allow the axe of woe to be generated 20:01:29 -!- HellTiger___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:10 i really think that agony display is broken but i dunno 20:03:08 vs bite damage seems a little excessive at high levels, it often does more damage than my weapon hit 20:03:49 * Grunt eyes gammafunk. 20:05:55 do vine stalkers have even have eyes 20:06:01 Grunt: testing...think it may have been weirdness with that save 20:06:03 Probably 20:06:12 just going back to my original reported version 20:06:52 * Grunt generates a save rom 20:06:54 *from 20:06:57 n78291: Currently caps at 24 at xl27 20:06:58 %git HEAD^ 20:06:59 07MarvinPA02 * 0.14-a0-2324-gf7df7db: Reword an enchantment resistance message 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7df7db4351d 20:07:17 At least I think it does, not wholly sure how aux attacks work 20:07:31 Yeah if I make clean, build that, make a save with the affected monsters (Ds + Snake), checkout trunk, make clean, and load said save, it was fine 20:07:40 so I'm almost donoe doing save in my first save's version 20:07:47 which is only one commit earlier 20:07:49 (I hope) 20:07:55 so more base damage than a weapon (assuming the two base damages are comparable) 20:08:18 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:29 DOH 20:08:38 I did indeed miss something in my commit (nothing to do with gammafunk). 20:08:50 Grunt: Yeah, ok. Sorry, seems to have been some false alarm due to something in how that save was created 20:09:05 Both original version of save and HEAD~1 are fine when loading in trunk 20:09:13 N78291: Yes, excepting enchants and weapon skill 20:09:16 I blame... 20:09:38 !rng Basil dck Grunt Arrhythmia Cheibrodos CursedNobleman 20:09:38 The RNG chooses: dck. 20:09:41 I blame dck 20:10:10 kekekela (L16 DsWr) (Snake:2) 20:10:17 uh oh 20:10:18 kekekela (L16 DsWr) (Snake:2) 20:10:29 n78291: Any idea what a better number would be? 20:10:29 kekekela (L16 DsWr) (Snake:2) 20:10:44 He was involved in the original SA-grudge match so perhaps we shouldn't fix his save... 20:10:59 kekekela (L16 DsWr) (Snake:2) 20:11:11 Basil: I guess the problem is getting the antimagic part to be notable? 20:11:29 but I think horns 3 is like 12 damage and is the current highest damage aux 20:11:34 12 base 20:11:50 Well, bite antimagic is doubled per point of damage 20:12:09 because it did next to nothing otherwise 20:12:37 thank goodness all of those demonspawn classes are priests 20:12:39 gammafunk: I just independently generated your crash, btw. 20:12:50 so I could twist the knobs to make the antimagic worth a damn regardless of how much damage it does 20:13:10 especially since Grunt fiddled with antimagic to enable scaling its effects per point of damage? 20:13:26 I didn't do that; Draco did. 20:13:31 Oh right 20:14:11 Grunt: Oh, so it wasn't a fever dream? Is it an actual bug? 20:14:27 Grunt: I would like to say that infernal demonspawn chunk is the least appetizing thing ever 20:14:41 N78291: Putrid demonspawn chunk, surely 20:14:48 you can't eat them 20:14:58 oh, dev team thinks of everything I guess 20:15:06 ??vs 20:15:06 vine stalker[1/1]: Parasitic vines. Player race in 0.14 with powerful bite which leeches mana and applies antimagic, starts with regen I (gets II and III at XL 6 and 12), spirit shield, +1 MP. -3 HP, can't restore HP with potions or wands (Gods and regeneration in general work). 20:15:18 Basil 20:15:23 !lg . VS-- 20:15:23 5. gammafunk the Summoner (L13 VSIE), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by a giant frog on Swamp:5 on 2014-01-28 19:41:23, with 26602 points after 11787 turns and 2:01:26. 20:15:27 Fix plz 20:15:34 Try hitting things 20:15:38 I was! 20:15:42 actually more than usual 20:15:51 Well, I'll push the fixed fix while I diagnose this tiles thing... 20:16:10 How is the crash recreated? 20:16:37 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2326-gbc532f4: Add cases for a couple of monsters missed in previous commit. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc532f462c02 20:16:40 -!- Vizer__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:41 in any case, the bite is intended to be more a reason to pick VS than horns are with Mi 20:16:47 Problem that game was Sif did not gift proper spells anyhow 20:17:00 what did she gift then 20:17:03 Yeah the bite is a big deal and has a huge effect on early game 20:17:03 tenofswords: blood saints seem to be spellcasters (or so says xv anyway) 20:17:03 nothing? 20:17:14 She gifted mass abjure, which is bad at killing enemies 20:17:24 oh 20:17:26 I do need MA but I really neaded an L5+ summon 20:17:33 just had beasts + shadow creatures 20:17:37 So I think that they can have substantially more damage than other auxes, but I don't really know how aux numbers work 20:17:37 well, okay, I couldn't get away with a vehumet monster not being a spellcaster 20:17:47 which carried me through swamp, but not swamp:5 20:18:05 so 24 might be overmuch yes, in which case it might be worth scaling that down 20:18:08 somewhat 20:18:17 speaking about VS bit I learned something today about aux attack damage 20:18:19 *bite 20:18:32 that something being that fighting skill affects their damage 20:18:42 -!- Greyr has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:47 so that would explain a few things 20:19:06 dck: fighting skill affects all melee damage, nothing special about auxes... 20:19:25 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:19:33 yeah I'd just assumed they were treated differently since they belong to no weapon skill 20:20:26 so well I'd already thought about maybe reducing max bite damage to 18 before, although perhaps that could wait a bit until more post-end experience is had 20:20:30 Meaning the damamge and to-hit boost from fighting to melee, specifically? 20:20:54 gammafunk: I'm thinking this is a more general problem than anything to do with the save game. 20:21:05 Ok, glad I didn't waste your time, then 20:21:16 gammafunk: er, the enum thing, rather. 20:24:59 -!- raskol_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:25 * Grunt facepalms. 20:27:35 It *is* related, but not in the way that I thought it was. 20:29:16 kekekela (L16 DsWr) (Snake:2) 20:29:19 ...actually, it has nothing to do with the enum thing; it's related to the other bug I was fixing. 20:29:49 * gammafunk nods nervously... 20:30:08 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:38 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:10 ...ah, I was wondering why something else isn't working properly, but that's because this save game contains something impossible normally. 20:35:11 N78291: i dunno, infernal demonspawn stew can be quite tasty 20:35:23 with cajun spices and a nice red 20:36:13 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf: Unmarshall draco_type properly from demonspawn from old saves. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ff15cf29038 20:37:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:40:03 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:40:39 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:21 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf (34) 20:42:47 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf (34) 20:43:56 are the hosted experimental branches something relatively new? 20:44:13 johnstein: Yeah, the first two were jump-attack and dwants 20:44:22 that seems like a very excellent idea 20:45:13 Well they do exist, the problem is it takes a bit of work to set them up and maintain them 20:45:24 I was trying to follow along with the conversation earlier and it surprised me that trunk was considered a place for experimental ideas to go since for some reason I had thought that all the experimental stuff was always separate 20:45:41 realizing that put some of the other conversation in better perspective 20:45:46 yea 20:46:15 johnstein: well, I think it should depend on the size of the experiment; unfortunately it also depends on whim and such ... 20:46:18 doctordoom (L18 DsCj) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1444: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Shoals:4) 20:46:24 It's even complicated by the fact that patch submitters like Basil or I have to have someone like neil merge subsequent changes 20:46:25 I didn't see anything on the wiki about how to get those set up 20:46:34 -!- Neuromancer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:46:35 !lm doctordoom crash -log 20:46:36 19. doctordoom, XL18 DsCj, T:39689 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/doctordoom/crash-doctordoom-20140129-024615.txt 20:46:36 so i read all of the backlog discussion and my main question is why did i bother 20:46:44 hehe 20:46:47 yea. seems like |amethyst or someone would still have to do that merging. 20:46:47 huh, badpicker 20:47:09 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf (34) 20:47:11 but wonder if there's an way to tag them to allow the update scripts on the other servers to more easily get things set up 20:47:17 Maybe dev team is discussing things further somewhere... 20:47:28 also this would all be like infinity times easier if we developed on github and could easily push branches to a server for testing by other people 20:47:38 nobody wants to download and compile someone else's branch 20:47:52 uh 20:47:54 Eronarn: What do you mean? 20:47:55 ... 20:47:56 (those are two independent things, if it wasn't clear) 20:48:14 You mean from other repos? 20:49:08 DracoOmega: MONS_NO_MONSTER in the population tables is causing crashes. 20:49:28 welp 20:49:42 Sounds like a monster even I can defeat! 20:49:47 gammafunk: stuff would get tested faster, and have more visibility, if we could press button receive server 20:49:49 unknown monster: "no_monster" 20:49:49 %??no_monster 20:49:54 unknown monster: "dummy monster" 20:49:54 %??dummy monster 20:50:43 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf (34) 20:50:44 crawlhacks 20:50:53 Eronarn: github would not actually get you anything WRT being able to deploy it 20:50:55 Eronarn: No I just don't understand what the difference on github is; devs push branches to the gitorious repo a bunch. 20:51:05 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:22 and it would give us YET ANOTHER communications channel to monitor :-( 20:51:57 Or do you mean push a branch, have a working webtiles server with said branch built and available? 20:51:59 Grunt: What? Why? I ran population stats on that stuff over and over again and it came out fine 20:52:22 Grunt: I used it to reduce the number of spawns in certain depth ranges in ways that would be quite hard otherwise 20:52:26 DracoOmega: this looks like it's from shadow creatures - trying to player_will_anger_monster(MONS_NO_MONSTER) crashes. 20:52:31 Oh 20:52:34 So not on generation itself 20:52:41 so it could be a bug elsewhere then? 20:52:43 I guess the answer is just to reroll 20:52:44 that's what i meant about two different things 20:52:50 For shadow creatures 20:52:59 For population generation, the IDEA is that it decide not to generate something 20:53:17 stating two different things may work better if you mark which is which ;-) 20:53:21 github > gitorious (it is much easier to have people not on the dev team do meaningful stuff), and also we should have easier deploys of branches to servers (preferably also not dev team or server admin only) 20:53:30 yes well it's 10 PM here and I am in bed already :P 20:53:56 Eronarn: it would probably not be a big deal to move to github if you really think it would help ... 20:54:07 well, except the push access ... 20:54:38 !send Eronarn An ignis night-light. 20:54:39 Sending An ignis night-light. to Eronarn. 20:54:54 I guess we could make a mirror there, and then just not look at our pull requests 20:54:56 SamB: have you used both github and gitorious? I don't see how anyone could opt for the latter on a functionality basis 20:55:11 gammafunk: An ignis seems more like an alarm clock 20:55:15 Eronarn: no, I didn't mean to imply such 20:55:34 the other day I was like "gitorious UI? what's that?" 20:55:35 Basil: Ok, maybe it's more of a reading light... 20:56:07 speaking of ignis, can they get buffed so that they can hit with corona more than once in a blue moon 20:56:08 Eronarn: Are you saying that github lets non-devs make branches on a repo? A presuming by allowing devs to grant access for just that? 20:56:19 Eronarn: just it would be a bit of a hassle getting everyone able to commit there 20:56:22 Conundrum: 20:56:32 gammafunk: github makes forking easy, tracking who has forked you easy, doing pull requests on forks easy, etc. 20:56:33 "It hits you" used to be printed on MSGCH_WARN; "Something hits you" isn't. 20:56:46 Eronarn: though, I really don't like what github does when you fork a repo :-( 20:56:58 it copies every single branch 20:57:17 Grunt: sounds like a good excuse to bring back the amazing it messages 20:57:25 SamB: but that's what git does 20:57:28 Lightli: I don't think they even spawn 20:57:35 Hrm, gitorious seems to let me clone just fine, and I can usually just make a mantis report mentioning a branch on my repo... 20:57:36 Eronarn: not the same way it doesn't 20:57:45 really? 20:57:50 Yes 20:57:55 it doesn't then go and offer all of those branches to everyone who looks at your clone 20:58:32 SamB: Oh, that's a good point, when I made a clone of crawl on gitorious, I got all those annoying branches; are you saying gitorious can be made to not copy those? 20:58:40 I had to write an sh script to delete those things... 20:58:51 gammafunk: no I'm not saying that 20:58:57 okay so they're equally bad then? 20:58:58 oh 20:59:02 And thus polluted the crawl changes feed, which probably nobody reads anyhow... 20:59:02 how come it doesn't spawn 20:59:11 yeah I am not actually sure what you are referring to SamB 20:59:11 Because it was never added to any population tables 20:59:15 (Which is probably best) 20:59:29 anyways it's just good practice to only have a few branches in your 'core' repo 20:59:33 then why is it still in the game 20:59:36 SamB: Well too bad, I found that pretty annoying 20:59:41 Eronarn: we have a lot of old branches! 20:59:41 and to delete old ones 20:59:48 why would you delete old branches 20:59:56 well, I mean en-masse 20:59:57 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: brb] 21:00:10 -!- praesident has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:00:14 why would you delete old unused anything in a project? 21:00:36 I just did it because I wanted to see only my relevant branches on my gitorious repo page, but truthfully I don't use said page much these days 21:00:46 In fact I've fallen back to mostly just submitting patches... 21:00:49 * SamB would maybe move them to some other part of the refspace if he wanted to get them out of sight 21:01:05 Can you do that? 21:01:19 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:01:31 SamB: when individual devs and stuff can fork easily you can have them keep that branch in their repo and not bother the crawl one at all :) 21:01:35 gammafunk: what, move old branches to someplace other than refs/heads/ ? 21:01:59 SamB: Yeah, I guess; just so they don't show on the gitorious page 21:02:01 and if it's just an old, already-merged branch just delete it 21:02:11 Eronarn: Yeah, that would be best practice, I guess 21:02:19 Eronarn: well, okay, if they never put those branches in the main repo in the first place, then we don't need to keep them there for archival purposes, true ... 21:02:25 so, seriously, when I said "crawlhacks" before, I was thinking of something along the lines of http://hack.dreamwidth.net/ 21:03:18 SamB: one of the nice parts of a solidly pull request workflow is that everyone is on an equal footing; devs just can pull request into master themselves rather than having to ask a dev to do it 21:03:57 that doesn't really say "equal footing" to me 21:04:20 devs wouldn't tolerate a workflow where they have to post a patch on mantis and get bugged to reroll it if it doesn't work, it's silly to expect nondevs (who may often be less technical) to deal with that and not get discouraged from doing stuff 21:04:29 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 21:04:46 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:51 oh, sure, I guess it might make it *more* equal 21:05:12 Eronarn: I think the non-technical ones really can't use git at all though 21:05:15 SamB: well equal in the sense of able to use the same tools in the same way. of course, there is a canonical repo. but you commit to that one the same way you commit to your own one 21:05:19 If you consider the msysgit-windows situation... 21:05:29 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:50 Hm, N78291, how did you find early and mid-game on this VS compared to the one you played back in experimental? 21:06:09 do the non-technical ones have anything *to* commit? 21:06:22 what is non-technical anyway 21:06:22 SamB: Probably mostly speach text and vaults 21:06:23 gammafunk: there will always be some people too stupid for any tool, but that number is much higher for patches than for git 21:06:29 speech even 21:06:48 non-expert might be the better term. git is confusing for almost everyone 21:07:05 Yeah, most just get the basic idea and evolve their understanding of it over time... 21:07:06 I mean anyone who finds the thing they want to patch in the first place is probably not TOTALLY incompetent 21:07:28 i've been dealing with this for a while in another community i'm in, Drupal 21:07:37 I think the frustration coming from outside is a bit more getting a dev to look at your thing, and getting specific feedback that's agreed upon by the rest of the team 21:07:42 they used CVS until far too recently 21:07:44 -!- konstantin___ has quit [Quit: konstantin___] 21:07:50 ug 21:07:54 and everything submitted online was via patches 21:08:30 Well that's one of the side-effects of git; it's a pretty good tool wrt getting commits through patches 21:08:43 some issues have been kept open for years just because of patch rerolling problems ("oh, sorry, your patch is for 6.12 but now we released 7.x so we need you to patch that first and then backport the changes") 21:08:44 hmm, I guess we could set up a github mirror and have Cheibriados watch it for pull requests ... 21:08:45 Since that was part of its design goals 21:09:31 gammafunk: the GH UI makes it much easier for people to review stuff than mantis patches since you can look at diffs online and stuff 21:09:35 Eronarn: Yeah I see that, but the same thing can happen to code sitting in a branch; you'd still have to rebase/merge and resolve conflicts 21:09:37 it even has inline code comments 21:09:49 oh ok 21:09:52 you can actually look at diffs on mantis too ;-P 21:10:07 I have noticed that the git interface on cszo that neil maintains is much better than the gitorious browser 21:10:11 but not the comments thing, and no historical context or lines beyond the context supplied or anything ... 21:10:21 but that also ties into the second aspect, being able to spin up servers based on branches (not github specific) 21:10:34 gitorious just barfs on any diff that it deems large 21:10:35 gammafunk: yes, that's why we have Cheibriados link there ... 21:10:48 either of those things would be improvements, but a workflow incorporating both of those things would be really swell (it might even make me feel like writing crawl code again) 21:11:09 gammafunk: and whenever I happen to click my mouse near the text on gitorious, it does strange things 21:11:47 Useless Animate Remains/Dead invocation from Yred wastes turn/mp/food by magicpoints 21:11:48 Gitorious gestures. SamB's mouse disappears in a puff of smoke! 21:13:03 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:23 Perhaps |amethyst can cook up a way to make experimental branches more easilly, but there's still the issue of getting proper testing for it 21:13:35 It's hard to test something like late-game branch removal, etc. 21:13:46 Without wizmode, of course 21:13:59 Hrm, restricted wiz mode... 21:14:24 actively recruiting for testing would probably help; like how tons of people played erocrawl when it was an option alongside trunk 21:14:36 yeah quite possibly 21:14:43 give trusted players wiz mode even 21:14:58 ??erocrawl 21:14:58 erocrawl[1/5]: L) EroCrawl (unstable): Lava Orcs, Octopodes, Square LOS 21:15:01 ??erocrawl [2] 21:15:01 erocrawl[2/5]: octopodes and lava orcs and squarelos are on cao ffffffffff 21:15:04 ??erocrawl [3] 21:15:04 erocrawl[3/5]: erocrawl is like the best thing that happened to crawl since I started 21:15:06 ??erocrawl [4] 21:15:07 erocrawl[4/5]: Tiles version spash screens: http://i.imgur.com/1yi21.png (minmay), http://i51.tinypic.com/23t3y4y.png (Wensley) 21:15:08 ??erocrawl [5] 21:15:08 erocrawl[5/5]: oh that wasn't the expected type of ero 21:15:13 could also do a premade savegame approach 21:15:26 specifically for lategame testing 21:15:31 * Lightli volunteers for testing 21:15:44 hrm, well that's interesting, but restricts what you can test 21:16:09 I think wizmode for experimental branch for subset of players might do 21:16:42 heck, just starting the player on a stack of potions of experience is probably enough 21:16:45 hosting experimentals on more servers should help 21:17:10 has there ever been a discussion of facilitating submitting feedback from in-game? 21:17:22 that would be cool 21:17:28 * Lightli wonders whatever happened to his vaults 21:17:29 you play the experimental game. you run into something.... weird... 21:17:30 tome actually has full in game chat. it's amazing 21:17:40 it makes the experience much more fun 21:18:02 Eronarn: webtiles has chat... 21:18:03 maybe in experimental there's an additional window you can access (webtiles) that allows you to fill out a report or something 21:18:20 dunno. it's not hard to file a report on mantic 21:18:22 mantis 21:18:35 but figure if you want feedback, you gotta remove all barriers 21:19:10 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=65 21:19:12 two of my housemates actually play dcss (and did before living with me) 21:19:17 the oldest still-open mantis issue i think 21:19:22 i doubt they even know what mantis or tavern or anything are 21:19:34 hah. nice 21:20:12 MarvinPA: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6 21:20:15 it's hard to convince people to invest in testing when they won't have any long term record of it 21:20:31 oh nice 21:20:45 1 through 5 are closed though! 21:20:48 well, 1 doesn't exist 21:21:13 i wonder if 6 is still a bug 21:25:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:55 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:22 we could add a "report a bug" link that opens a new tab to mantis, maybe with some stuff prefilled ... 21:31:37 though I've doubts as to whether mantis could handle that 21:33:36 huh 21:34:10 <|amethyst> SamB: if only the browser security model were a little more lax :) 21:34:38 well, bugzilla lets you prefil fields by putting stuff in query parameters 21:34:40 <|amethyst> ugh, 1s ping from home to anywhere 21:34:43 *prefill 21:35:26 sort of like how mailto URLs allow you to prefill stuff 21:39:46 <|amethyst> SamB: looks like it does work: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php?category=Upload%3A%20Graphics&build=0.14-a0-2323-g93de46b 21:39:57 wow 21:40:30 that sounds nice 21:40:35 time to inject some malicious code 21:40:49 hmm, pre-attaching a screenshot seems unlikely to be possible though 21:44:32 <|amethyst> That's probably more difficult, yes 21:44:51 -!- xnavy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:07 <|amethyst> You are supposed to be able to do with with soap anyway 21:45:45 <|amethyst> not sure about how you'd get the screenshot and base64-encode it though 21:46:35 <|amethyst> and it turns out my 1s ping was because a SVN push for my class was way bigger than I thought 21:46:42 random question 21:46:45 -!- beef42 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:46:52 how much damage does force bolt do (assuming max power) 21:46:54 <|amethyst> I forgot to remove the .sdf file before pushing a couple hundred visual studio projects 21:46:54 ??imb 21:46:55 mystic blast[1/2]: Range 7, does a maximum of 2d22 damage but explodes with a 3/(2 + 2*distance) chance. The explosion is directed away from the caster, so don't worry about hurting yourself with it. Explosions make 10 noise. 21:47:00 I wonder if webtiles could be made to recover from a crash enough to allow the user to make a report 21:47:21 <|amethyst> Lightli: what do you mean by "force bolt"? 21:47:26 <|amethyst> Lightli: force lance? IMB? 21:47:36 fer, force lance 21:47:41 <|amethyst> new dicedef_calculator<2, 6, 1, 6> 21:47:50 <|amethyst> with a max power of 100 21:48:10 ??force_lance 21:48:10 force lance[1/1]: Level 5 range 4 conjuration. Deals modest damage. If it injures a target, it attempts to knock them back, which fails if random2(2500) is less than their body weight. There is a 50% chance of a second knockback attempt (so if both succeed they will be knocked back two spaces). 21:48:15 <|amethyst> so 2d(6 + 1*100/6) = 2d22 21:48:28 so imb 21:48:34 only one mana more 21:48:43 no explosion 21:48:46 <|amethyst> IMB is new calcdice_calculator<2, 12, 1, 3>, (note the different class) 21:48:48 also that 21:48:57 yeah 21:49:02 force lance might work as a lvl4 spell since basically nobody uses it 21:49:05 -!- raskol_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:07 like cbl was changed 21:49:22 I'm going to assume that IMB starts off stronger than force lance but the lance scales up better 21:49:26 ??stone arrow 21:49:26 stone arrow[1/1]: A level 3 earth/conjuration spell. Found in the book of Geomancy, starting book for EEs. Does 3d11 dmg at max power. Does massive damage from ghosts for some reason. 21:49:35 gammafunk: What kind of crash? 21:50:18 Medar: A crash in the crawl binary; e.g. have the client side allow them to fill out some stuff to send to mantis (and inform the user of the crash in general) 21:50:56 Not possible with an ordinary tiles build, of course 21:50:57 <|amethyst> which means 2d(something) with a max of 12+pow/3 = 45 so alternates between 2d22 and 2d23 21:50:59 Yeah, that should be possible. 21:51:10 2 dsomething? 21:51:15 Currently we get users totally confused as to what's happening when there's a crash 21:51:28 Well webtiles users at least 21:51:56 <|amethyst> even if we don't have an auto-bugreport, we need a webtiles crash screen 21:52:03 <|amethyst> and console for that matter 21:52:28 oh right, dgl could help with console as well 21:52:31 What about fireball or lightning bolt 21:52:32 <|amethyst> when DGAMELAUNCH is on; the current local tiles situation is probably fine 21:52:54 <|amethyst> Lightli: fireball is calcdice_calculator<3, 10, 1, 2> with a cap of 200 21:53:46 for that matter why does book of wizardry not have lightning bolt 21:53:54 it's a classic spell 21:54:12 wheals: it used to 21:54:33 (it was replaced with force lance) 21:54:36 Power has it? 21:54:41 <|amethyst> Lightli: at the same power as maxed Force Lance it would be 3d20; at max power, 3d36 or 3d37 21:54:46 I seem to recall it in another generic conj book 21:54:57 tempests, yes 21:55:01 <|amethyst> if I'm not doing my arithmetic wrong, which has been known to happen 21:55:07 <|amethyst> FR: spell fightsim 21:55:30 <|amethyst> or even a wizmode command to show spell dice 21:55:45 I like the idea of spellsim. 21:55:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:47 what about lightning bolt 21:56:07 <|amethyst> (I understand not wanting to show it by default; and a diagnostic flag is a bit much because no one will build with that 21:56:34 <|amethyst> Lightli: new calcdice_calculator<1, 11, 3, 5>, cap 200 21:56:46 |amethyst: Oh, reminds me. That identify/unidentify item types and level items tenofswords requested is on mantis (and is a simple patch) 21:56:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:04 I wonder if spellsim would be hard to implement... 21:57:29 Then again, are we getting wizmode feature bloat? 21:57:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: thanks; bug me about it tomorrow if you don't mind 21:57:35 will do 21:57:39 so 1d11+pow/5? 21:57:45 <|amethyst> gammafunk: or find someone else to commit it first 21:57:46 or did I mess something up there 21:58:15 <|amethyst> Lightli: 1d(something) with a max of 11 + 3*pow/5 21:58:21 oh 21:58:26 <|amethyst> oh, but it's 1 21:58:54 BTW. it's possible in theory to take "screenshots" in JavaScript: http://experiments.hertzen.com/jsfeedback/index.html 21:58:55 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:20 <|amethyst> so 1d(11 + 3*pow/5) = 1d131 ??? 21:59:22 Probably not simple or reliable enough to actually use though 21:59:31 <|amethyst> That seems like a big number 21:59:37 So at max power (theoretically) 1d131 21:59:40 yeah that seems off 21:59:43 <|amethyst> granted, maxing power is nearly impossible 21:59:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:01 depends 22:00:05 |amethyst: only 1 dsomething? 22:00:51 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:54 with a DEFE, I've gotten to the point that only the skills needed to be capped in order for fire storm to hit max power 22:00:57 |amethyst: Would detecting "Writing crash info to..." on stderr be reliable enough way to detect crashes? 22:01:12 (staff of fire/archmagi/ring of flames) 22:01:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:22 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:30 <|amethyst> Lightli: yeah, 72 int, max skills, and 1 enhancer gets you 198 power 22:02:39 ??200 power 22:02:39 200 power[1/1]: With all skills at 27, you need 3 enhancers and 33 INT, or 2 enhancers and 50 INT. Impossible with just 1. Four enhancers don't give an effect better than three. 22:02:48 50 int with 2, 3..3 int for 3? 22:02:52 I thought it was 35 22:02:57 DE can easily get 33 int 22:03:05 I think they can get that natively 22:03:19 just train nothing but int for every level and they'll probably cap at 33 22:03:24 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:38 <|amethyst> okay, so "nearly impossible" might have been a bit hyperbolic 22:06:19 close enough 22:06:26 but yeah not deep elves aren't going to have an easy time of it 22:06:50 and with earth/air even deep elves are in trouble 22:07:05 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:08 (staff of earth/air, robe of the archmagi, and then that's it, hope you can hit 50 int somehow) 22:07:19 -!- didi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:21 wild magic!!!! 22:07:33 Are there bots for crawl? 22:07:34 Lightli: hat of the high council 22:07:37 didi: 22:07:39 !lg qw won 22:07:40 1. qw the Executioner (L27 GrBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-11-22 23:33:04, with 1851235 points after 56797 turns and 0:45:16. 22:07:41 <|amethyst> Lightli: I just got 115 damage against myself in wizmode (no bouncing), so 131 isn't unbelievable 22:07:43 (qw is a bot) 22:07:50 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:02 %rc qw 22:08:03 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/qw.rc 22:08:05 k 22:08:09 that's the code for the bot 22:08:16 so 1d131 for lightning bolt at max damage (yikes) 22:08:21 what about bolt of cold/bolt of fire 22:08:37 Grunt: Cool, thanks. 22:09:21 <|amethyst> 6d25 usually, 6d26 occasionally 22:10:33 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:38 <|amethyst> calcdice_calculator<6, 18, 2, 3> so "max" of 18 + 2*200/3 = 151 but you have to round up to a next multiple of 6 to get the true max 22:10:45 <|amethyst> s/next // 22:11:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:15 <|amethyst> so really max 156 22:11:51 nice 22:12:05 and the storms? 22:12:13 (I know LCS is 10d22 at max) 22:12:16 Grunt: How would I run it? 22:12:44 didi: use that rcfile for your init.txt, basically. 22:12:55 Grunt: oic 22:13:12 Grunt: I've never done any scripting/macroing in crawl yet. 22:15:18 <|amethyst> Lightli: ice storm is calcdice_calculator<7, 22, 1, 1> so max of 224 22:15:45 -!- moose has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:04 ok, so very slightly stronger than LCS 22:16:08 <|amethyst> Lightli: firestorm is calc_dice(8, 5 + pow) so max of 208 22:16:17 got it 22:16:32 -!- moose has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:34 <|amethyst> also remember that fewer dice means it's more likely to stray from the average 22:16:46 so there are three ways to do it? 22:16:51 <|amethyst> so lightning bolt is a lot more likely to do >100 damage than bolt of fire 22:17:14 <|amethyst> but it's a lot more likely to do <30 damage too 22:17:17 calc_dice, calcdice_calculator, and dicedef_calculator? 22:17:45 <|amethyst> wheals: few things use calc_dice directly 22:18:03 why have the three not been merged? 22:18:07 * Grunt still finds the concept of a calculator of a calculator amusing. 22:18:20 <|amethyst> wheals: firestorm could just as well have used calcdice_calculator<8, 5, 1, 1> and probably would have if it were a zap 22:18:27 <|amethyst> wheals: they're implemented in terms of one another 22:18:37 that sounds strange 22:18:47 Grunt: Is there a document which describes the API available for scripts? 22:18:52 why does ice storm, is it a zap 22:18:56 <|amethyst> wheals: yes 22:19:01 got it 22:19:16 <|amethyst> wheals: firestorm isn't because of smite targetting 22:19:21 so 8d5+pow 22:19:28 and what's the difference between dicedef and calcdice? 22:19:40 <|amethyst> wheals: calcdice_calculator is a template class whose operator() returns calc_dice(numdice, adder + pow * mult_num / mult_denom); 22:19:48 crawl, where zaps, beams, and beems are all different things 22:20:00 <|amethyst> wheals: and calc_dice take the second number as a max and turns that into ndy 22:20:25 <|amethyst> wheals: so you'd use calcdice_calculator if you prefer thinking about the max, dicedef_calculator if you prefer thinking in terms of dice 22:20:47 didi: let me see if I can scrounge something up; I think the devwiki lists most of it. 22:21:01 Grunt: I appreciate it. 22:21:35 <|amethyst> wheals: (but the rounding behaviour means calcdice_calculator is a little harder to deal with at a glance) 22:21:39 -!- Vizer__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:21:44 ...oh, I guess most of this is for vault design. 22:22:21 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:23:43 <|amethyst> wheals: these all give you a dice_def structure which can then be rolled as often as you want 22:24:02 (joke option: bolt of inaccuracy) 22:24:32 new calcdice_calculator<10, 40, 1, 1>, 22:24:46 so i guess 10d40? 22:24:58 i haven't been paying attention 22:25:54 <|amethyst> wheals: 10d(foo) with a max of 40 + 1*pow/1 22:26:05 oh 22:26:16 <|amethyst> wheals: inacc has an insane cap, 1000 22:26:30 <|amethyst> wheals: I have no idea how rod power works or how high it goes though 22:26:44 ??rod power 22:26:44 rod power[1/1]: 5 + 3 * Evocations 22:26:53 so, 91 22:27:00 er, 8 22:27:05 86 22:27:06 86 22:27:19 my 6 key is broke again 22:27:31 (idea: an unrand that enhances evocation power) 22:27:40 10d126, mmm 22:27:44 <|amethyst> wheals: so 10d12 60% of the time, 10d13 40% ("max" of 126) 22:27:57 oh 22:28:34 thought it was more 22:28:59 Grunt: gloves, I suppose 22:29:03 <|amethyst> ??orb of fire spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy 22:29:03 I don't have a page labeled orb_of_fire_spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy in my learndb. 22:29:07 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 7791 | Sp: b.inaccuracy (12d48) / b.inaccuracy (12d49) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:29:07 <|amethyst> %??orb of fire spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy 22:29:14 dang 22:29:21 that's more like it 22:29:27 orb of inaccuracy (08*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 7791 | Sp: b.inaccuracy (12d48) / b.inaccuracy (12d49) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:29:27 %??orb of fire name:orb_of_inaccuracy col:yellow spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy 22:29:36 orb of inaccuracy (08*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.inaccuracy (12d153) / b.inaccuracy (12d154) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:29:36 %??orb of fire name:orb_of_inaccuracy col:yellow spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy hd:100 22:29:40 :) 22:30:00 <|amethyst> and you see that monster and player numbers have nothing to do with each other 22:30:04 <|amethyst> note the 12 dice 22:30:05 killed from afar by an orb of inaccuracy (930 damage) ...with a narrow beam of energy 22:30:18 |amethyst: 12 good 22:31:07 master blaster should come with a pack of these 22:31:20 <|amethyst> I know minmay's complained about the fact that some monster spells are way more powerful than you'd expect based on the player version 22:31:30 (stone arrow is infamours) 22:31:46 Unknown spell name: 'stone' in 'stone' 22:31:46 %??cerebov spells:stone arrow 22:31:50 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: stone arrow (3d30) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 22:31:50 %??cerebov spells:stone_arrow 22:31:50 |amethyst: which is especially relevant for player ghosts, obviously] 22:31:55 -] 22:31:56 <|amethyst> G-Flex: yeah 22:31:59 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon / fire storm (8d17), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 22:31:59 %??cerebov 22:32:02 and dith, now 22:32:02 stone arrow ghosts are hideous 22:32:10 just for the hell of it 22:32:17 ancient lich (16L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 27 | HP: 87-131 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5960 | Sp: stone arrow (3d37) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:32:17 %??ancient lich spells:stone_arrow 22:32:24 Unknown spell name: 'stone arrow,iron shot' in 'stone_arrow,iron_shot' 22:32:24 %??ancient lich spells:stone_arrow,iron_shot 22:32:24 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 7791 | Sp: stone arrow (3d41) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:32:24 %??orb of fire spells:stone_arrow 22:32:27 the shadow casting not-quite-identical monster versions of your spells frankly sounds like a problem in itself 22:32:29 ancient lich (16L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 27 | HP: 87-131 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6504 | Sp: stone arrow (3d37), iron shot (3d44) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:32:29 %??ancient lich spells:stone_arrow;iron_shot 22:32:30 like, a fundamental problem 22:32:32 <|amethyst> does dith actually use a monster cast? 22:32:36 since ideally it should be casting /your/ spells 22:32:42 Unknown spell name: 'stone arrow,iron shot' in 'stone_arrow,iron_shot' 22:32:42 %??orb of fire spells:stone_arrow,iron_shot 22:32:42 does it copy bolt of inacc??? 22:32:53 <|amethyst> Lightli: semicolon 22:32:57 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 8519 | Sp: stone arrow (3d41), iron shot (3d48) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:32:57 %??orb of fire spells:stone_arrow;iron_shot 22:32:59 does monster magic dart do more damage than player magic dart? because magic dart with dith seemed suspiciously good 22:33:08 G-Flex: of course 22:33:16 fr: bolt of accuracy 22:33:25 Lightli: it's called magic dart. 22:33:32 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 7791 | Sp: magic dart (3d7) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:33:32 %??orb of fire spells:magic_dart 22:33:33 G-Flex: it's not 1dsomething either 22:33:35 ...though I guess you'd want a beam version of it. 22:33:37 <|amethyst> to look up player numbers, see zap-data.h 22:33:43 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 22:33:45 conclusion: monsters are cheaters 22:33:50 <|amethyst> to look up monster numbers, see mons_spell_beam in mon-cast.cc 22:33:50 what is the shadow's HD? 22:33:53 ??monsters 22:33:53 monsters[1/2]: Dirty cheaters. 22:33:55 xl /2 22:34:01 Your shadow's HD for spell purposes is your HD/2. 22:34:07 hrm 22:34:16 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5154 | Sp: ice storm (10d10), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range / ice storm (10d9), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:34:16 %??lom lobon hd:13 22:34:18 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 1317 | Sp: magic dart (3d5) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:34:18 %??orb of fire spells:magic_dart hd:10 22:34:26 <|amethyst> !source mons_spell_beam 22:34:28 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8677457 22:34:32 eh that ice storm is a bit disappointing 22:34:35 ??beem 22:34:35 beem ~ bees ~ killer bee[4/10]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3931 BEES 22:34:35 <|amethyst> !source zap-data.h 22:34:37 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8677458 22:34:44 not bees Sequell! 22:34:46 !readall goodcode 22:34:46 beem.is_beam = false / maybe_bloodify_square / if (sanity >= max_sanity) break; / grep -i //.*why.*? *.cc / if (need_for_greed) 22:34:52 a conjurer of dith seems like it would be stupidly good 22:34:54 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 3367 | Sp: stone arrow (3d20) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:34:54 %??lom lobon hd:13 spells:stone_arrow 22:35:01 3d20 stone arrow 22:35:18 can the shadow cast tornado 22:35:21 Unknown spell name: 'stone arrow,orb of destruction' in 'stone_arrow,orb_of_destruction' 22:35:21 %??lom lobon hd:13 spells:stone_arrow,orb_of_destruction 22:35:27 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 3605 | Sp: stone arrow (3d20), orb/destruction (9d13) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:35:27 %??lom lobon hd:13 spells:stone_arrow;orb_of_destruction 22:35:32 shadow cast clouds are cool too since you get the monster trails 22:35:44 haha 22:35:46 orb of arrow (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 99 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 15000 | Sp: stone arrow (3d123) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:35:46 %??orb of fire spells:stone_arrow name:orb_of_arrow n_rpl hd:99 22:35:51 Oh right, I wanted to also work on making box of beasts better 22:35:57 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 1 | Sp: fire storm (8d750) / fire storm (8d751) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 22:35:57 %??test spawner spells:fire_storm 22:36:00 Since mumra left before he could really finish that 22:36:03 8d751 22:36:07 orb of arrow (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 99 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 15000 | Sp: iron shot (3d140) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:36:07 %??orb of fire spells:iron_shot name:orb_of_arrow n_rpl hd:99 22:36:15 Unknown spell name: 'lcs' in 'lcs' 22:36:15 %??orb of fire spells:lcs name:orb_of_arrow n_rpl hd:99 22:36:15 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 1 | Sp: b.inaccuracy (12d1503) / b.inaccuracy (12d1504) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 22:36:15 %??test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy 22:36:20 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: stone arrow (3d1205), iron shot (3d1341), crystal spear (3d1216), ice storm (10d601) / stone arrow (3d1205), iron shot (3d1341), crystal spear (3d1216), ice storm (10d602) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 22:36:20 %??test spawner spells:stone_arrow;iron_shot;lehudib's_crystal_spear;ice_storm 22:36:20 :D 22:36:29 wait 22:36:33 I like how iron shot outdamages crystal spear there. 22:36:38 yes 22:36:38 of course 22:36:43 Grunt: You don't have any opinions on improving BoB do you? I'll take a \n for no... 22:36:45 and stone arrow is right next to lcs 22:36:45 how come test spawners have 1000 HD 22:36:47 fireball / bolt of fire is another good one like that 22:36:49 gammafunk: \n 22:36:53 figures... 22:37:01 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: crystal spear (3d41), iron shot (3d36) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 22:37:01 %??cerebov spells:lehudib's_crystal_spear;iron_shot 22:37:09 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(240), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: crystal spear (3d52), iron shot (3d48) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 22:37:09 %??cerebov hd:30 spells:lehudib's_crystal_spear;iron_shot 22:37:14 /join ##crawl-cheibriados 22:37:33 really just /msg Cheibriados 22:37:40 fr: give cerebov LCS instead of iron shot 22:38:04 seems like HD:60 is the breaking point for that by the way 22:38:14 <|amethyst> maybe I should have chei join, listen, and announce on ##cheibriados 22:38:36 /topic Take it easy. 22:38:44 it could announceall commits 22:38:46 <|amethyst> or ##crawl-sequell even 22:38:56 instead of ...and 69 more commits. 22:39:02 we could get the whole list! 22:39:02 <|amethyst> maybe not that in ##crawl-sequell :) 22:39:09 <|amethyst> wheals: well, chei is single-threaded 22:39:20 <|amethyst> wheals: so can't respond to queries while it's announcing 22:39:30 <|amethyst> wheals: so would have to cut out the flood protection too 22:39:47 damn! 22:39:49 <|amethyst> wheals: the rate-limiting I mean 22:40:09 <|amethyst> If someone wants to fix that, I would be happy 22:40:22 <|amethyst> We should have a crawl infrastructure devteam 22:40:24 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:40:41 devteam devteam 22:40:48 I'll sign up for the Wiki documentation tester and editor! 22:40:54 |amethyst *is* the crawl infrastructure <_< 22:41:00 <|amethyst> Grunt: greensnark too 22:41:09 <|amethyst> Grunt: and Nap kin 22:41:28 who runs !fight? 22:41:32 speaking of crawl infrastructure, 'make' is supposed to copy the /dat/des to DATADIR, right? 22:41:40 <|amethyst> snark 22:42:05 <|amethyst> johnstein: make install 22:42:10 <|amethyst> johnstein: $(COPY_R) dat/des/* $(datadir_fp)/dat/des/ 22:42:13 oh crud. yea. forgot 22:42:17 yea, I saw those lines 22:42:32 that line 22:42:40 I'm not a make expert yet 22:42:54 <|amethyst> Grunt: but it is bad having so much critical stuff handled by just three people with no overlap 22:42:56 \me runs "make expert" 22:43:06 s/\/\// 22:43:22 hey that's wrong 22:43:29 phantasmal warriors don't really wield stuff right 22:43:32 s/\\// 22:43:36 but wrote my own update script semi-based on the dgamelaunch stuff (very very simplified) but it was whining last night that several vaults couldn't place a wellspring elemental anymore. 22:43:43 ty 22:44:04 like, there'd be no point to giving them a weapon attach point 22:44:10 ontoclasm: clearly they should try but it falls through their hands... 22:44:15 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 22:44:20 phantasmal warrior (09W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 33-64 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 2612(vuln) | 07undead, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(72), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 544 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:44:20 %??phantasmal warrior 22:44:25 <|amethyst> Grunt: also, there are all kinds of server code improvements that are needed but don't exist 22:44:30 no items or weapons tag 22:44:33 doe chei show the MONS_USE_ARMOUR enum thingies? 22:44:43 oh yeah it does 22:44:44 yes 22:44:48 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:44:48 %??orc 22:44:49 orc warlord (11o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 86-138 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 32 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(60) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1671 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:44:49 %??orc warlord 22:45:08 wheals: odd coincidence we both chose orcs? 22:45:13 <|amethyst> Grunt: I mean, that are needed but probably *won't* exist if it's up to solely me 22:45:29 and I brought an orc to a fight with a warlord... 22:45:34 <|amethyst> Grunt: just because I have finite time 22:47:40 <|amethyst> I would write up and send a proposal to C-R-D, but I think now might not be a good time for that 22:48:01 <|amethyst> So I guess I'll write up and polish a proposal, which will be better in the long run anyway 22:49:47 ??crd 22:49:47 crd[1/2]: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss 22:49:54 ??crd[2 22:49:54 crd[2/2]: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.crawl.devel 22:50:55 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:29 -!- didi has left ##crawl-dev 22:58:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:59:35 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:54 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:01:44 hm 23:02:06 -!- flappity has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:25 Basil: hmmmm... 23:02:57 So how about removing that zotpoison 23:04:08 wow, I summoned him 23:04:12 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:49 We have a bunch of patches waiting review right now, but big trunk changes are taking precedence 23:04:58 I guess that's always true, but... 23:05:07 ...I was just wondering what would need to be done Sequell-side to support a new milestone subtype that I've been meaning to add in for a while, but it looks like it would be pretty simple. 23:05:19 ??manticore 23:05:19 manticore[1/2]: Slow, late-D and Shoals threat. Good melee, has finite ammo of flung barbs, which deal damage with every movement when embedded into a target. Moving enough or standing still for bit will remove the status. 23:05:23 ??manticore [2] 23:05:23 manticore[2/2]: it occurs to me that manticores are basically just low-level iron dragons 23:05:34 manticore (05H) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 9 | HP: 33-66 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 26, 14, 14 | 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 184 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 23:05:34 %??manticore 23:05:42 how much damage do the barbs do 23:05:43 (uniq.slimify, if you're wondering) 23:06:38 That would be pretty nice 23:06:59 !lm * uniq.banish 23:07:00 11104. [2014-01-29 02:34:41] Octotorque the Cudgeler (L5 DsCK) banished Purgy on turn 3315. (D:4) 23:08:30 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 30 | HP: 133-192 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(280), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 8869 | Sp: splash/acid (3d7) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 23:08:30 %??acid blob hd:30 23:08:46 death ooze (06J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 30 | HP: 118-152 | AC/EV: 2/4 | Dam: 3204(rot), 32 | 07undead, 04eats items, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(320), 02cold, 09poison+++, 08acid+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10543 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 23:08:46 %??death ooze hd:30 23:12:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:26 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:31 !seen dpeg 23:14:31 I last saw dpeg at Sun Jan 19 23:13:38 2014 UTC (1w 2d 6h 53s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: leaving'. 23:15:41 <|amethyst> !tell tenofswords one wizlab is D:22- ? 23:15:42 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 23:16:10 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2327-g5ff15cf (34) 23:16:13 |amethyst: that sounds like an oops on my part 23:17:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:21:28 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:29:38 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:31:34 phantasmal warrior (09W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 33-64 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 2612(vuln) | 07undead, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(72), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 544 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:31:34 %??phantasmal warrior 23:31:40 mm, they are Ws 23:32:10 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/phantasmal_warrior.png 23:32:15 how's this look 23:32:27 and: should i add a glowing eye or just leave him faceless 23:32:47 woah, trippy 23:33:11 the warrior himself is lighter than the sword? 23:33:14 the thought i had was that the sword is the only "real" part left 23:33:20 Try adding the eye in, just for the sake of comparison. 23:33:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:34:03 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/phantasmal_warrior_eye.png 23:34:24 i've been thinking about MGS too much, i'm all like "WHAT IS A SOLDIERRR" 23:34:32 Haha. 23:34:49 Can you make the eye look more threatening somehow? He looks too ... angelic right now. 23:34:54 hmm 23:34:55 maybe 23:35:09 I think having the eye will be better if you can get it to look right. 23:35:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:34 hmm 23:36:39 try reloading it 23:36:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:49 fitting an angry eye into that space is hard 23:37:04 Swap the light and the dark pixel? 23:37:34 ...actually, if I stare at this configuration for a bit, it looks mostly okay. I think it's the background. 23:37:41 ontoclasm: However it turns out, I really like the idea 23:37:58 thanks 23:38:42 ...yeah, he just looks deformed now :b 23:38:55 hah 23:40:07 -!- nixor1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:39 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 23:41:00 -!- nixor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:46 ontoclasm: yeah, I think I like this as it is now; I'd have to see it in action, of course :) 23:42:07 (fr: phantasmal form so you can use the happy eye version) 23:42:16 hah 23:42:21 mmm 23:42:25 i'll just make happy versions of all the undead 23:42:27 ignore monster SH form 23:42:44 can I reflavor vs into that? 23:42:44 dck: kill Mennas faster than he kills you!? 23:42:49 quite 23:44:22 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:47:32 re: phantasmal warriors, should they behead hydras? 23:47:36 i noticed on my last dk that they do not 23:48:29 <|amethyst> Napkin you have a !tell when you're around; I didn't think to just do it in channel so you'd see it either way 23:48:50 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:49:35 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-2328-g18f63ac: Phantasmal warrior tile 10(30 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=18f63ac068e0 23:50:55 pretty pictures 23:51:40 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/scaryspooks.png 23:52:16 Not happy, not exactly scary, just a stoic warrior stare. 23:52:33 that's what i was going for 23:52:36 <3 23:53:04 has a neat kind of cartoon feel 23:53:52 somehow the monster seems kind of stoic to me, like they've long since stopped caring about why they're fighting 23:54:04 so i tried to draw that i guess 23:55:29 "cartoon feel" was exactly my first thought seeing it too 23:55:56 yeah, that's the light shading 23:56:06 maybe i should up the contrast 23:56:20 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:56:20 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 23:56:20 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:56:53 ontoclasm: It's partly the large helmet, small eyes is reminiscent of that one loony toons martian guy... 23:57:00 haha 23:57:02 oh god 23:57:11 so that's why it seemed so familiar 23:57:13 |amethyst: Would detecting "Writing crash info to..." on stderr be reliable enough way to detect crashes? 23:57:16 I like the tile though :) 23:57:17 -!- Fortescue has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:57:18 marvin the martian wants your soul 23:57:21 still great though 23:58:11 I will refer to them all as "marvin" from now on 23:58:13 I like that, much more dynamic than the old tile and the colors are perfect 23:58:16 marvinTM