00:03:32 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2138-g03caa30: Grand avatar glyph is now magenta 'R' (tenofswords). 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03caa304e126 00:03:32 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2139-gd6ccac1: A rudimentary worldbinder tile. 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d6ccac1efd72 00:03:32 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2140-g56c927d: A completely unserious and temporary grand avatar tile. 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 13+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56c927da22a2 00:03:54 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2125-g4968c94: Give a message when inventory item is identified in certain ways 10(12 minutes ago, 4 files, 42+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4968c949967f 00:04:31 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2124-ga163777 (34) 00:04:50 ....ahahahahaa 00:04:50 ??grand avatar 00:04:50 I don't have a page labeled grand_avatar in my learndb. 00:05:08 it's a super battlesphere 00:05:18 tenofswords: I figured you'd appreciate that one. <3 00:05:45 Grunt: can you give him sunglasses? 00:05:56 maybe add a shotgun 00:06:07 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:06:26 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2124-ga163777 (34) 00:08:34 considering it was meant to vaguely reflect heroism and finnesse for a monster I think oka would heavily approve of that tile 00:09:45 Depends. Are they all +13,-2 weapons? 00:09:59 also considering Oka's standards for evaluating quality in general... 00:10:40 * Grunt wanders off to sleep (theoretically). 00:12:55 Wait, is that worldbinder tile a cloud? :P 00:14:08 a cloud with tiny hands 00:14:21 gammafunk: You could try enabling .git/hooks/pre-commit.sample 00:14:24 my description my have been taken literally 00:14:33 Haven't used it before myself, but looks sensible and seems to work 00:14:42 Medar: thanks, will look at that 00:16:51 tenofswords: Oh, so it does have hands. I, uh, never noticed them 00:17:14 |amethyst: Oh, did you end up using that nonblocking socket patch on CAO? 00:17:17 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:21 Ohs everywhere. 00:17:30 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2125-g4968c94 (34) 00:18:50 <|amethyst> Medar: I forget... which file did it patch 00:19:05 <|amethyst> webserver/something.py? 00:19:07 connection.py 00:19:32 <|amethyst> I don't think I did then 00:20:31 Ok 00:22:04 hm. I set up a symlink at http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/dev/morgue but I get a 403. http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/dev/ works. I've added pass-through Rewrites in the config file. seems like a simple permissions problem, but I can't seem to figure it out 00:25:59 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:12 <|amethyst> tenofswords: Just listened to the Ruth White version of that Baudelaire poem. Creepy. 00:32:45 03|amethyst02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2141-g43d7d9a: Fix citation and formatting of a quote. 10(89 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43d7d9a62594 00:33:36 I got into it from Space funeral <3 00:35:01 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2126-g2b13bce: Fix a quote in a quote. 10(37 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b13bce6a3b2 00:35:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:36:15 <|amethyst> tenofswords: I guess citing it as 43 is reasonable since 1857 was the first edition; it was 47 in the second edition 00:36:33 <|amethyst> (1861) 00:36:56 should use as a quote for blood fountains "Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs / As if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs; / I clearly hear it mutter as it goes, / Yet cannot find the wound from which it flows." 00:38:05 -!- Raycaster1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:08 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:03 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:07 <|amethyst> galehar: *sigh* Just noticed in fr/quotes.txt : 00:44:13 <|amethyst> galehar: -Bible du roi Jacques, Apocalypse 16:1. 00:44:44 Is already having a nice quote sufficient for getting my unique merged 00:45:25 It's even from Borges 00:45:57 I would give it a proper look-over, but my brain has been saturated with this stuff for like two weeks straight now >.>; 00:45:59 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2126-g2b13bce 00:46:08 should give crawl a soundtrack for april fools and use the absolutely appropiate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-GH2Hq2Lc for Abyss 00:48:36 I actually can't think of any crawl messages that refer to saturation... 00:49:22 DracoOmega's brain is engorged. 00:49:29 close enough 00:49:45 Sorry, you're too full to transform right now. 00:50:01 I am pretty sure I think int drain is a more apt thing to evoke at the moment 00:50:04 does that occur in-game? 00:50:09 it does 00:50:10 Yes 00:50:14 Vampire bat form 00:50:15 oh right... 00:50:19 well probably doesn't but it's in the code 00:50:29 I've had it happen! 00:50:35 Yeah me too 00:50:39 message when you have no abilities as Vp without a god 00:50:49 Dislike bat forms limitations! 00:51:07 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2124-ga163777 (34) 00:52:23 <|amethyst> galehar: now that I look at the French quote translations, I definitely see why you put so much emphasis on not just translating the English... it's like they're not even trying :) 00:52:52 this is not only true for fr 00:52:52 "Attempting to comprehend the unknowable depths of infinity takes a toll on your sanity." 00:53:03 and generally is what most open source project translations suffer from 00:53:22 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: yeah, but Fr is the language other than English that I can best read 00:53:26 tenofswords: This game sounds unsettling 00:53:29 <|amethyst> haven't looked at De yet 00:53:33 don't. 00:53:35 :-) 00:53:37 Haha 00:53:55 basil: is not crawl 00:53:57 <|amethyst> Let me quote: 00:54:07 <|amethyst> « Quand la lune frappe ton oeil comme une grosse tarte pizza, c'est l'amour. » -Jack Brooks, « C'est l'amour » 00:54:21 what is this about fr? 00:54:27 <|amethyst> such grace and artistry 00:54:46 maybe it's art that we cannot comprehend 00:54:48 gross tart pizzas 00:55:22 I think my sources of inspiration clearly pale in comparsion 00:55:22 <|amethyst> SamB: among other things, many of the bible translations are KJV 00:55:50 <|amethyst> SamB: rather than using an actual French translation of the bible 00:58:23 <|amethyst> At least the Saint-Exupéry quote is the original, but galehar tells me he's seen at least some quotes that were Fr -> En -> Fr 00:58:36 I bet that comes out nice... 00:58:59 Like feeding google translate back into itself several times 00:59:08 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:19 <|amethyst> gammafunk: Human-translated at least, so not quite that bad 00:59:41 <|amethyst> http://translationparty.com/ 01:01:07 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:01:26 03|amethyst02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2142-g03b8353: Add a detranslated French quote. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03b8353fa997 01:02:15 Ask not for whom the bell tolls... => "Never heard the bell ringer." Excellent 01:03:21 <|amethyst> "Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup", being all nouns, hits equilibrium rather quickly 01:03:27 <|amethyst> as in, immediately 01:04:56 "I am the very model of a modern major general." -> "It is very modern major general model." :P 01:06:28 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2127-gd317749: Fix a citation's spelling. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d317749e1941 01:07:18 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:07:31 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:56 -!- chris-oelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:58 -!- chris-oelmueller is now known as Guest45531 01:11:49 -!- ChrisOelmueller is now known as bye 01:11:54 -!- Guest45531 is now known as ChrisOelmueller 01:11:56 -!- bye has quit [Quit: They are in love. Fuck the war.] 01:13:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:17 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:30 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:25:44 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:35:00 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:35:44 -!- bschlief has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:59 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:16 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:53:55 -!- Escalator has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:58 -!- st_ has quit [] 01:56:10 hm. still can't get this symlink to work in /var/www/. here's the page I'm trying to get working: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/dev/morgue here's the permissions for /var/www/crawl/dev/ and the permissions for the symlink: http://pastebin.com/taSu7YRB my apache config for that site is: http://pastebin.com/HkCy8HSE and my main apache config uses: SymLinksIfOwnerMatch 01:56:37 based on what I read about SymLinksIfOwnerMatch, the target of symlink and the owner of the symlink need to match 01:56:46 which they do in this case (jmbjr:jmbjr) 01:56:58 I've reloaded the apache service 01:57:11 +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch 02:06:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:05 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:33 -!- bschlief has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:16 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:13:25 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:15:28 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 02:16:12 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: hydurf] 02:16:50 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2127-gd317749 (34) 02:18:33 -!- Hellioning has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:20:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:20:52 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 02:21:02 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:22:47 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:09 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26:35 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:59 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:40:26 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:40 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:00 -!- duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:00 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:43:33 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:46:04 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:46:53 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:31 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:48:32 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 02:51:31 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52:46 Guardian spirit amulet message for Vine Stalkers by Sar 02:57:19 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:57:29 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:35 -!- master_j has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:04:44 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:41 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:11 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:11:19 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:11:54 -!- HellTiger___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:05 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:55 -!- Bovinius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:47 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:34:14 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:34:48 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:03 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:07 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:18 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42:59 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:45:31 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:56:36 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 04:07:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:11:52 -!- Tasonir has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:12:39 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 04:16:53 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 04:19:22 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:25 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:27:43 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:37:47 -!- stephl has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:35 hey gang. I was interested in how vaults are generated; is there an equal probability that any kind of vault will be created? i see lots of temple vaults for instance, but i tend to get certain ones more often than others 04:41:14 WEIGHT tag does pretty much what it says on the tin 04:41:32 Also welcome! 04:42:19 thanks 04:42:19 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:20 There's also some other mechanics, such as CHANCE (which IIRC lets you set a probablity of a map appearing on a floor (of the specified depth) 04:43:40 and uniq_foo, which makes it so only one of the maps with uniq_foo will appear in a given game 04:44:05 Those don't count for temple maps of course, since they always appear and there's always only one. (: 04:44:32 Right, I was trying to work out the difference between the two 04:45:03 I have found the wiki reference now 04:45:03 -!- konstantin___ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:45:29 great! :) you can always look at the maps, and ctrl+f any tag etc from the reference 04:46:49 So, CHANCE is for vaults that integrate into the dungeon, and weight is for branches, temple and branch ends? 04:47:55 -!- absolute1o has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:06 -!- absolute1o has quit [Client Quit] 04:48:29 hmmh.. branch ends are always there, so they would use weight.. random vaults usually use weight too, their actual probability of appearing depends on many factors 04:48:52 basically, you use chance if you want more direct control over the probability - again if I recall correctly 04:49:09 it's been a while since I last made any contributions to Crawl :) 04:50:22 Ok, thanks 04:53:38 -!- stephl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:02:11 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:11:05 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 05:17:17 -!- DracheReborn has quit [Client Quit] 05:23:08 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:29 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:02 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 05:39:09 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:17 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:00 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:43:14 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:48:50 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:50:27 -!- djanatyn has quit [Excess Flood] 06:02:02 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:53 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:07:21 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:11 -!- _oiseaux has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:31 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:10:50 -!- temujin has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:14:59 -!- Nightdew14 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:17:04 -!- defeeca has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:17:09 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:08 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:41 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:42 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:03 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:30:24 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:27 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:39:43 nyfair (L22 FoAs) ASSERT(!monster_at(p) || monster_at(p)->submerged() || fedhas_passthrough(monster_at(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 481 failed. (Vaults:5) 06:40:40 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Client Quit] 06:42:23 -!- Snips has quit [Quit: A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well] 06:43:16 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 06:44:25 -!- Simplex_ has quit [Client Quit] 06:44:42 nyfair (L22 FoAs) ASSERT(!monster_at(p) || monster_at(p)->submerged() || fedhas_passthrough(monster_at(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 481 failed. (Vaults:5) 06:45:58 &whereis nyfair 06:45:59 %whereis nyfair 06:45:59 nyfair the Imperceptible (L22 FoAs), a worshipper of Dithmengos, is currently on Vaults:5 after 45105 turns. 06:46:12 !lm nyfair crash -log 06:46:13 2. nyfair, XL22 FoAs, T:45129 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/nyfair/crash-nyfair-20140127-124439.txt 06:49:29 -!- duralumin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:58 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:40 nyfair (L23 FoAs) ASSERT(!monster_at(p) || monster_at(p)->submerged() || fedhas_passthrough(monster_at(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 481 failed. (Vaults:4) 06:59:25 huh, I wonder if nyfair's standing on a monster, that's what that line of code looks like 06:59:35 would be interesting to know which monster it is 06:59:48 might have something to do with his shadow mimic? 07:00:12 -!- DracheReborn has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:13 yeah, that seems like a reasonable explanation 07:02:40 -!- Sasai has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:03:13 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:30 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:56 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:14:13 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:15:14 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 07:25:35 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:45 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:29:11 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:30:27 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:34:27 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:16 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2128-g9fe2874: Paint Sewer walls blue. 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9fe28740f687 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2129-gedd95e3: Partially revert "Fix Pan stair logic broken by 0004888." 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edd95e366294 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2130-ge3a0bba: Inline a now degenerate function. 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3a0bba8dba9 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2131-g1d589cd: A quote for the Flight spell (Arrhythmia) 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 15+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d589cdcebdb 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2132-gfc2badc: Make ice floating over water slow, same as monster ice beasts. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc2badc080d5 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2133-gf2466d3: Move nicolae_whirpool deeper. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2466d371ddc 07:38:13 03pubby02 {kilobyte} 07* 0.14-a0-2134-g44f6157: Fix a few more diggable arrival vaults. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 25+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=44f6157c83ba 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2135-gad6e923: Don't place two pan lords in rand_demon_1. 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad6e92348726 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2136-gdd3d4e2: Generate no Forest in the Vaults. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd3d4e257dce 07:38:13 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-2137-g5daeedd: Add Fo to kb_arrival_jail. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5daeeddd8188 07:38:13 ... and 17 more commits 07:42:01 -!- yalue has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:15 why forest is no more? 07:43:09 tgs3: I want Forest to be a full rune branch 07:43:20 tenofswords wants it gone 07:43:31 in either case, it's no longer a subbranch of V 07:46:31 two questions: 07:46:34 which rune/branch would it replace, if any? 07:46:46 1) is crypt generating again or are we doing 14 runers for the moment? 07:46:48 Vaults 07:46:53 crypt has never had a rune 07:47:00 2) who thinks replacing vaults is a good idea? 07:47:05 vaults is such a good branch 07:48:08 !lm * win rune s=rune 07:48:09 vaults:$ has a ton of loot in it so forest would probably have be altered to compensate 07:48:11 103236 milestones for * (win rune): 15667x silver, 9861x decaying, 9837x serpentine, 7726x slimy, 7590x barnacled, 6191x demonic, 5772x abyssal, 4385x golden, 4204x iron, 4163x gossamer, 4042x magical, 4029x glowing, 4025x fiery, 4010x dark, 3953x bone, 3912x icy, 3869x obsidian 07:48:17 G-Flex: yeah 07:48:46 forest does still need significant tweaking 07:48:56 kilobyte: sorry, i don't really find that argument persuasive 07:49:12 maybe we need a second orb so people can choose whether to do zot or some other branch! 07:49:38 imo we need to trim down extended to make room for stuff that isn't demons and undead 07:49:50 instead of having to replace existing content every time something like this happens 07:50:24 g-flex: i agree, and i also think that that would be a better way to work toward a goal of people doing 3 runes with a different set of runes than the standard two lair + vaults 07:51:01 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:51:45 I just don't like that we have to have discussions about which branch/rune to rotate with which other branch/rune when literally 9 of the 15 runes are already in areas very similar to each other 07:53:29 <|amethyst> G-Flex: Have you seen the demonspawn-enemies branch? 07:53:41 no 07:53:52 but I think the best solution is probably just to get rid of either hells or pan 07:54:04 pan would be the preferred choice for most 07:54:08 (to get rid of) 07:54:09 <|amethyst> G-Flex: it will significantly change the Pan monster set 07:54:18 pan is more scummable and annoying 07:54:50 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:54:59 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:29 !lm * win rune s=rune cv>=0.12 07:56:32 26974 milestones for * (win rune cv>=0.12): 4334x silver, 2286x decaying, 2248x gossamer, 2190x serpentine, 2136x barnacled, 2087x slimy, 1536x abyssal, 1068x demonic, 1052x magical, 1048x golden, 1048x dark, 1046x fiery, 1040x glowing, 975x iron, 968x icy, 963x bone, 949x obsidian 07:56:56 !lg * won s=urune 07:56:57 16051 games for * (won): 7453x 3, 3239x 15, 2754x 4, 1084x 5, 296x 6, 231x 14, 185x 7, 172x 9, 151x 10, 146x 8, 95x 0, 89x 11, 73x 13, 70x 12, 8x 1, 5x 2 07:57:30 historic data gave a boost to decaying and serpentine, making Vaults overabundance appear to be less than twice the next other vault 07:57:36 s/vault/rune/ 07:58:08 * kilobyte really wishes we dropped the rune lock and made all runes roughly as difficult. 07:59:33 in 0.13, you won't accidentally find the abyssal rune, too 07:59:45 are abyss exits more frequent lately? 07:59:49 they seem to be, but maybe I'm just lucky 08:01:15 kilobyte: does the forest removal commit allow crypt to generate again? 08:02:46 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 08:03:06 actually what interests me about that rune data is that Slime is almost as high as the Lair branches 08:04:17 you do have to correct for slime appearing twice as often as any one lair branch 08:04:32 ackack is right, but still 08:04:55 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:04:56 !lg * recent win s=urune 08:04:56 4507 games for * (recent win): 2298x 3, 865x 15, 756x 4, 292x 5, 68x 6, 50x 14, 43x 10, 32x 7, 28x 9, 26x 8, 23x 11, 17x 12, 9x 13 08:05:14 so about half of all games have >3 runes, slime is by far the most common 4th rune 08:05:22 i don't think that's a terribly surprising result 08:05:39 10 of runes have nearly equal stats, within 10% of each other. Then there's abyssal at 1.5× that and slimy, at 2×. 08:08:18 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 08:09:09 if i want to be able to get into tomb later, should i be starting a game now before the updates hit? 08:09:46 <|amethyst> { BRANCH_CRYPT, BRANCH_VAULTS, 2, 3, 5, 19, 08:09:48 if you want to get into the Tomb, you can start the game before or after updates hit, your choice 08:10:14 ok, thanks 08:10:53 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:15 -!- klz has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:05 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:19:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:53 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:58 <|amethyst> I guess my issue with having all runes being the same difficulty is that, then, a 15-rune game isn't harder than a 3-rune game, just longer 08:29:37 you'd want the difficulty of the runes to vary from game to game, probably based on character build 08:29:48 that already exists to some extent wrt Slime and Jiyva 08:29:50 ackack: good point 08:31:36 |amethyst: it's bad that 97% of all 0.12+ wins include the silver rune 08:32:16 what does the "recent" keyword mean? 08:32:22 cv >= 0.12 08:32:23 <|amethyst> !kw recent 08:32:24 Keyword: recent => cv>=0.12 08:32:30 oh ha ha 08:41:51 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:45 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:46:22 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:26 yes, it's quite bad that one of the best designed and still most varied levels in the game is in nearly all games 08:47:56 it exposes how mediocre so many lair branches are 08:48:24 no, relatively few folks visit the Abyss 08:48:29 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:52 kilobyte: IMO if you can do silver you can also just do slimy instead, but v:$ is way more fun plus you do v:1-4 anyway, so that's what people generally do 08:49:00 also if "make said lair branches not suck" gets dropped from "remove forest" one more time I'm... going to just wait for kb to die to a shambling mangrove instead 08:49:07 kilobyte: my impression is that you are anti-runelock because you feel it removes choice 08:49:14 how is removing vaults because too many people get silver not the exact same thing 08:50:15 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:50:17 anyway, v:$ is generally considered one of the best levels in all of crawl 08:50:41 also, every winner does zot, I think if that's not a problem the "overabundance" of the silver rune isn't either 08:50:59 -!- Naphistim has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:54:11 ignoring how awkward so many of abyss's aspects are to hope that more people visit Abyss:3 is also quite the staggering jump in logic 08:54:18 -!- Nerem is now known as Neremworld 08:54:50 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:26 ... 08:55:33 why :3, i'm not up to date with what that means 08:55:36 also what the flying fuck, removing elemental wellsprings 08:55:39 are the "interesting" monsters there? 08:55:52 abyss:3 is where the abyss rune start spawning 08:56:20 but okay there was no consensus to remove that _depths_ _water_ _monster_ in the slightest regarding forest 08:57:21 tenofswords: look around, elemental wellsprings were about as loved as spirit wolves. Ie, you get lengthy cheers on both IRC channels. 08:57:39 not just Depths, they were a late import there 08:57:52 that 08:58:16 elemental wellsprings combine the downsides of electric eels and any summoner 08:58:45 did I wait a month for devs to debate over whether I would play nicely with the other devs when 08:59:38 they inherently can't spam either aspect of those two things 09:00:05 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:15 * kilobyte ponders the secrecy of the "secret" mailing list being a joke. 09:01:11 removing them was suggested on crd and in here multiple times and by multiple people and i don't recall anyone speaking in favour of them until now either 09:01:14 I only extrapolated from the invitation email but okay you can confirm things sure 09:01:39 most of those discussions were well before they got their second revamp 09:01:43 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:01 perhaps if anyone involved in these discussions had known that a second revamp even existed 09:02:04 this would have helped 09:02:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:02:47 %git ce3e2dbb 09:02:47 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-1162-gce3e2db: Make elemental badsprings summon (via the primal wave) instead of having a band. 10(9 weeks ago, 3 files, 6+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce3e2dbb7176 09:02:59 that was the change you requested 09:03:12 i'm assuming that's the first revamp yeah 09:03:35 did another happen later? 09:03:41 no, the first revamp was when they got a water elemental band instead of summoning any 09:04:19 making anyone a summoner is not an improvement, you see... 09:04:27 ("summoner" is a swear word to me) 09:04:40 oh ok well the suggestions for removal definitely weren't 9 weeks ago then 09:05:24 yes, and multiple people swore out the unrelated change to summoning made in the unsummon branch 09:05:26 uh the suggestions for wellspring removal started like 5 seconds after they hit the servers 09:05:48 -!- Sasai has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:06:26 anyway i don't feel particularly strongly about it either way but removing them was suggested recently by multiple devs and i hadn't seen any opposition to that until now 09:07:12 I didn't even know there was anything to be the opposition of 09:07:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:25 ...in putting most of my weight into their change 09:10:26 out of curiosity, why not change the wellsprings by making summon elemental less spammy? 09:10:31 that would also fix ilsuiw 09:10:45 both already got summon caps 09:10:55 hmm 09:11:17 i think one remaining problem with wellsprings is that they seem like they often occur in clumps in vaults and such 09:11:25 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:38 i had a depths vault recently with like 4 of them and just running back and forth in front of the door so they exhausted themselves was pretty damn irritating 09:12:31 their commonness in the depths water set was definitely something that could have been addressed 09:13:12 one wellspring isn't that bad these days imo but when a couple get together it's pretty hideous 09:13:17 of course you can say the same thing about eels 09:14:31 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2155-gcdf6521: Improve messaging for Formicid digging 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdf6521e1c5b 09:17:25 aside from one off-mention in the forest email there's no mention of wellsprings in crd in the past three months, and not much talk from the s-z.org/crawl-dev logs aside from repeatedly saying it's not connected to forest 09:18:12 if there are any extensive ##crawl discussions involving devs and wellsprings I apologize for not staying in ##crawl and catching those 09:19:16 hm, I think summon caps make the monsters that have them feel a bit silly 09:19:27 Since they keep trying to get over the cap 09:19:42 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:45 and at best achieve nothing, and most of time in fact helping the player 09:19:49 *-and 09:20:36 It's particularly noticeable with sojobo and ilsu since fights tend to last a bit 09:20:38 yes, blocking further summoning when monsters have essentially hit said caps would be reasonable 09:21:05 wow, and only one tavern post in the past three months with the word wellspring 09:21:20 am I forgetting any discussion channels 09:21:43 SA, reddit 09:21:48 those suck though :P 09:22:05 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:10 maybe even more than the others 09:22:48 they still have devs in them, though 09:22:50 * tenofswords sighs 09:23:05 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 09:23:42 i think nobody is expecting you to care about anything other than crd, wiki and ##crawl-dev 09:23:53 regarding communication with devs 09:24:34 ...and... one hit on makhleb's page on devwiki 09:24:35 * kilobyte knows of a way to fix summon cap issues. 09:24:50 thank you, broken record 09:24:59 * kilobyte beams. 09:25:02 well, there was one good suggestion on tavern I think 09:25:14 surprising, I know 09:25:54 it was to split summons into familiars (which don't time out) and combat summons (which time out very quickly when they dont have a target) 09:26:06 tenofswords: your demonspawn rework includes those who dabble with the forbidden arts, you see... It would be nice to not introduce even more of that crap. 09:26:52 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10525 09:26:54 familiars that do require some resources wouldn't be that bad 09:27:05 there's abjuration on death, there's the summon cap, and thus there is a reasonable approach towards any monster summoners 09:27:05 summons that cost nothing but mana... bleh 09:27:33 oh right, I keep forgetting monster summons are dumb too, sorry :( 09:27:55 <_oiseaux> hey all, i was wondering if anyone would have a look at https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10721 and share thoughts? Basically, does anyone think the distribution of vaults / branch endings could do with some tweaking? 09:27:57 But the recent changes seem nice 09:29:04 alefury: my "unsummon" branch is incomplete as I don't know how to handle a number of notable threats like Hell/Pan lords, and greater mummies 09:29:05 I mean, would you suggest removing random pan lord summon eyeballs for the sake of them being summons even though it is one of the biggest potential threats in the game, just because monsters that didn't exist now suddenly exist 09:29:10 i'll say that deep elf demonologists are now my favorite of the vault elves 09:29:22 To me personally abjuration on death makes monster summoners interesting and not annoying. 09:29:38 Cerebov for example doesn't really depend on summons, some others do, though 09:29:50 the unsummon branch got several epople to suddenlt pop up and cojmpletely disagree with it 09:29:54 _oiseaux: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8055 (and dpeg's comment) seems related 09:30:04 thank you for fielding discussion well after that 09:30:42 I'd have pushed this patch already if not for dpeg's comment 09:30:53 wheals: I think they're too weak comparatively and was going to give them another greater demon slot in place of their minor demon slot, would this colour your perception on them or would they still be good due to the abjure-on-death change 09:30:54 I do disagree with dpeg completely 09:31:46 possibly, i mean in elf:3 minor demon may as well be a cantrip 09:31:53 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:01 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:32:03 <_oiseaux> MarvinPA: Can I link to my thread in that ticket? I disagree with dpeg, but in the thread I have discussed a solution. I will read their rationale 09:32:34 go for it 09:32:42 kilobyte: I agree with dpeg in general: having rare stuff is required to let long time players still find things they have not seen before. But I think having one vault that is much more common than the others is terrible. 09:33:19 going to agree with the notion of rare good, common bad 09:33:24 his statement makes sense to me for many things, but i dunno if vault weights are one of those things 09:33:41 If there are enough vaults they are 09:33:44 having most vaults rare means common ones will be overplayed 09:33:51 -!- Matejii has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:34:00 where did "most vaults rare" come from 09:34:36 Something like 3 tiers which are distributed about 60% 30% 10% each with roughly the same number of vaults in them is good IMO 09:35:17 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:35:29 In this scenario if there were 9 vaults they would have weights of 20 20 20 10 10 10 3 3 3 09:37:05 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:08 <_oiseaux> The problem is that every 1 in 5 sewer is kobolds, it's a bit boring :( 09:38:31 in current examples with a brief review the only examples that matter much are temples and troves (decorative stuff, I don't care either way), sewers (trivial acceptable fix), swamp (which points towards weakness in swamp's design itself when the rare vaults are things very far away from the rest of swamp), 09:39:02 ...and yeah I can't think of anything else here 09:39:06 which trove map you get is hardly decorative... 09:39:23 ...whoops 09:39:39 yes, true 09:40:11 <_oiseaux> The first temple vault has the rationale that it should appear lots because it's a "classical" layout. Which is a shame, because I don't get to see the other cool layouts as often 09:40:33 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:35 (especially if the map is trove_garden) 09:40:43 heh 09:41:08 aka the second most common one 09:43:00 looking over the .des I'd rather not even thinking of touching the balance involved here 09:43:40 could you at least maybe take a look at line 214 09:44:16 "local spell_skills = {"Spellcasting", "Conjurations", "Enchantments", "Summoning", "Necromancy", "Translocation", "Transmutation", "Fire Magic", "Ice Magic", "Air Magic", "Earth Magic", "Poison Magic"}"? 09:45:29 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45:58 does that work? does you.skill understand Enchantments? 09:46:32 hahahaha 09:46:38 ...ohhhhhh 09:46:43 (probably not, because that would be silly) 09:59:30 so. with minimal negative discussion after their revamp, I intend to revert the wellspring removal 10:00:06 and lower their Depths weight some 10:00:13 any objections besides "summoners are bad" 10:00:15 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has left ##crawl-dev 10:04:57 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:59 Well I don't find them very good monsters because they're confined to a certain area which makes them very easy to retreat from or avoid -and- have a high damage attack with knockback which on top of that creates unstable footing. 10:05:15 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:05:26 This imo makes them too dangerous to be worth fighting at all in a good number of characters. 10:05:53 would they be better if they would only spawn in water but could normally move out of water? 10:05:56 And since they're so easy to avoid due to water confinement it just means to exclude the whole puddle and move on. 10:05:57 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:34 Well they'd still have knockback and create puddles and summon guys. 10:06:36 I mean, they're weird planar portal thingies or something, not fish, right? 10:06:50 On top of being an average speed monster. 10:07:08 they'd be probably a bit better if used sparingly though. 10:07:15 their high damage attack also still hurts them to make them vulnerable to pretty much anything besides melee 10:07:47 (and the summoning can, probably should be made only a chance ontop of the primal wave) 10:08:03 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:03 but currently they spawn rate (well, until removal anyway) seemed way over the top to me. 10:08:14 did they actually spawn in bands? 10:08:19 what if the beam gave engulf status instead of summoning? 10:08:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:08:40 hm, engulf until you get out of the water? 10:09:25 that, or a just a duration 10:11:29 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12:23 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:47 So basically conjurers have to just go away? 10:15:22 Additions to monspeak.txt -- New unique speech by coolio 10:16:03 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:54 Hmm, I kind of feel that Fo abilities are underwhelming. Especially with the digging change that makes using it for escape much worse. (But is nice flavour for sure.) 10:21:36 ??digging 10:21:37 dig[1/1]: Gets rid of a line of rock walls. Does not work on stone, metal, or green crystal walls. 10:21:41 what changed? 10:22:02 %git ee4c0d4a 10:22:37 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-2149-gee4c0d4: Don't give formicids a remote digging ray, let them dig in person. 10(17 hours ago, 8 files, 46+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee4c0d4aa3b8 10:22:37 -!- myfreeweb has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:22:37 ... 10:22:40 Well, Fo have a kind of dig status now 10:22:54 I think they dig one tile with each (slow) step? 10:23:06 But dig the spell/wand are unchanged 10:23:29 * SamB was waiting for Cheibriados to have a ping timeout ... 10:25:28 "Using this ability mereley states your intention to dig.." ... to whom, the Crawl Digging Taskforce? 10:26:18 Anyway. I don't really know what to suggest. Maybe removing the extra noise from shafting? 10:26:50 It's not like it doesn't have a lot of negatives already. And you can't do it in the most dangerous areas anyway. 10:28:46 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:05 -!- RiotInferno has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:32:05 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:16 I know buppy was concerned that dig is their most effective escape mechanic and nerfing it would make them a lot less fun 10:33:34 -!- CptClouds has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:44 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:52 gammafunk: currently digging costs 5 aut per square; this can be adjusted 10:37:45 Yeah, they certainly didn't feel like needing an escape nerf. But maybe buffing shaft is more interesting. 10:38:17 Medar: what kind of buff do you have in mind? 10:38:40 in certain ways it's a buff because you won't open up the level more than you need to 10:38:49 Not making a lot of noise when you land. 10:38:53 ones I see: 1. make it work in Pan, 2. going just a single level down 10:39:00 and 3. that, yeah 10:39:18 I thought it already just went one level down. Guess I've been lucky. 10:39:25 1-3 10:39:43 IMO current shaft is balanced. It's not meant to be very safe. 10:40:43 Medar: if you go down more than one, it should mention this explicitly now 10:41:12 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:41:36 Well, it seems very rare that it actually improves your chances of surviving. 10:41:52 Except if you kite something up and then escape by shafting down, or something like that. 10:42:07 -!- _oiseaux has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:42:43 going from D:10: 2, 2, 3. 10:43:00 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43:01 I've used it on average 3 times in all my Fo wins to good success 10:43:05 only very early shafts have a smaller range 10:43:31 (3 times per win, not in total) 10:44:17 also, Abyss 10:44:38 shafting in abyss sounds fun 10:44:40 do you think Pan and/or the Abyss should be valid places for shafting? 10:45:17 Pan: no. Abyss: would be fine 10:45:49 it probably would be fun in abyss 10:46:20 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2143-ge8842d2: Don't melt Frozen status on fiery damage/actions (tenofswords). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8842d2f452e 10:46:22 Hrm, that does make the abyssal rune significantly faster for Fo, but Fo in extended ain't exactly easy anyhow 10:49:50 -!- Maii has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:52:53 kilobyte: Opinion on new new Asterion with spectral weapon instead of greater servant (no summons!) 10:52:57 ? 10:53:18 I haven't looked at him yet, sorry 10:53:25 Well and demon weapon 10:53:49 -!- nixor1 has quit [Client Quit] 10:55:45 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:50 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:06 also, shafts in Ziggurats 10:56:13 would probably be massively overpowered 10:57:29 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:14 shaft in a zig sounds like the kind of thing that should always leave you surrounded by oofs or something 10:59:29 27 orbs of fire come into view. 11:01:44 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:42 -!- duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:53 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2155-gcdf6521 (34) 11:17:05 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:06 -!- DracheReborn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:20:00 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:29 kilobyte: It would be nice if didn't regularly insult my stuff in commit messages, nor do I entirely appreciate you repeatedly proposing removal of stuff I've been working on full-time for weeks now as if you were either unaware or just couldn't care less. 11:20:31 And to say that what's holding up your 'unsummon' branch is the fact you haven't figured out what to do with Tomb and such is either willfully self-centered or completely oblivious, given that the moment what you already had was made public, it gained immediate strong disapproval by like 6 different people at once - almost nothing garners that level of instant feedback in ##-dev and you cannot wri 11:20:31 te that off as irrelevant. 11:20:47 Your crusade against summoners' existence anywhere and everywhere is inane and destructive, and if you were to base all mechanical decisions on what ##crawl complains about, most of the game would be removed by now. 11:20:48 ("summoner" is a swear word to me) 11:20:48 From an actual developer, I think this is a dangerously immature attitude to profess, and certainly robs credibility from any rational argument you might try to make. 11:22:31 DracoOmega: I know of only two people so far who experessed anything against "unsummon", and even only that after the branch was pushed. 11:22:55 Way more than two people spoke out strongly against it in ##crawl-dev IMMEDIATELY after it was pushed 11:23:06 Which was the first any of them even knew of it, so how were they supposed to complain ahead of time? 11:23:10 DracoOmega: as for my rationale, take a look at gods used by those who won Su 11:23:37 That is a very seperate problem than 'monster summoners are inherantly bad'. Like, there's many different ways in which those are seperate problems 11:23:50 well, removal of summoning was discussed on a number of occasions. Not a single people defended current summoning. 11:24:26 I think everyone thinks that a lot of player summoning spells at the moment have awkwardnesses and could be improved, sure. And again, that is not the same thing. 11:24:51 monster summoners encourage a degenerate way of playing: when you see summons, run away instead of fighting, to let them expire 11:24:51 God choice by Su is about the fun of the player summoner playstyle, the utility of the summoner book, just the sheer preferences of some parts of the playerbase, and has almost nothing to do with monsters at all 11:25:38 Even people who strongly expressed that sentiment before the abjure-on-death change no longer outright agree with it (and I disagreed with them sometimes even then) 11:26:39 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:52 If you wanted to, you could say that monster bands encourage 'degenerate play' by getting you to run away so as to fight smaller numbers at once. In some ways this is a fairly similar comparison. Besides, you can't just keep running away until they never summon. That's like saying you turn around and run from that lich the first time it hits you with crystal spear, hoping to rest up and be able to 11:26:52 kill it without that ever happening 11:27:22 It's both unnecessary and not liable to realistically work and hardly a measure of whether they normally play well or poorly 11:27:30 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:15 Running away when you get bad engagement (if you can), fighting when you get a good one, is the way you deal with all enemies. Abjuration on death makes that choice often interesting against summoners. 11:31:37 Yes, there are PLENTY of ways to end up with bad engagements outside of summoning. Simply by taking unlucky hits, getting new monsters to show up from elsewhere, something overly dangerous getting hasted/mighted, etc. 11:32:02 Retreat and regroup is a fundamental part of Crawl combat, and summoners are hardly alone or even dramatically worse in this regard, particularly now 11:32:43 (Besides, not all summons can be trivially retreated from either, for that matter. There are more than a few where retreating is likely to REDUCE your odds of survival compared to fighting) 11:33:28 Certainly those fiends are going down more easily if you kill the nearby demonologist instead of giving them multiple turns to torment/hellfire you as you walk away 11:36:31 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:33 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:09 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:41:23 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:42:59 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:32 -!- Beeez has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:51:06 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:59 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:11:16 -!- Turgor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:12:02 -!- Mateji has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:16:03 * Grunt thumbtwiddles, eyeing demonspawn-enemies. 12:19:05 monster summoners encourage a degenerate way of playing: when you see summons, run away instead of fighting, to let them expire 12:19:15 note how this hasn't been true for several months by now 12:19:35 and yes all of what DracoOmega said, not just on this particular topic but very much so 12:20:37 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:04 assuming you really care about my opinion, current wellsprings are fine imo and i'd oppose their removal also *if somebody had asked about it* which i don't recall happening in here at all 12:22:11 * SamB goes off to make a branch with the game removed ... 12:23:07 it's also unfortunate and worrying that the apparently best way to get some stuff changed recently is to work on it in secret then push it as bulk so that it ideally is not discussed in advance ever 12:23:54 For that matter, I have seen people who used to express vitrolic dislike of wellsprings say that they're basically okay now. I cannot myself comment since I've been too busy with other things to really look at them, but it's the sentiment around their removal and the general philosophy at work that bothers me most 12:24:04 and maybe include one very controversial change in that bulk to get the others past "the crowd" nearly unnoticed 12:24:16 ChrisOelmueller: (Also, are you including what I'm doing currently as 'working on it in secret' incidentally?) 12:24:23 i am, yes 12:24:49 Well, I would hope that the bulk of it is public anyway 12:25:01 aware that pushing this to master in small chunks isn't feasible but branches exist 12:25:04 DracoOmega: you have to admit that you have a tendancy to build big piles of patches off in your own corner ... 12:25:28 I was explicit with what I was doing! Many of the implementation stuff gets changed around a lot while working on it. 12:25:30 not, mind you, that most of these patches have anything wrong with them or anything 12:25:45 Surely you don't think it's reasonable to have to discuss every minor deviation before you even feel satisfied with it yourself? 12:25:46 wellsprings are confined to water right 12:26:28 Yes 12:26:42 DracoOmega: all I mean is that it tends to be hard to see what you are up to at any given time 12:27:01 well, regardless of what you think of summoning, that's a problem (i'm replying to chris here) 12:27:20 Well, I have been editing monsters per the Forest dispersal proposal, tinkering with the new Snake stuff, fixing a few related bugs, and that's basically it 12:27:33 It's just much more time-consuming than expected 12:28:18 The general ideas were already discussed somewhat, I believe 12:28:21 they're usually in a place where the water-restriction does not matter as much, talking about U exclusively here 12:29:07 and they're much better than even unsubmerging giant bigfish in that actually something is happening even when you try to disengage 12:29:09 they still break autoexplore and are hard to exclude, although of course eels exists (and may be worse) 12:29:51 autoexploring Depths is not what i recommend currently :) but yes that's the general interface problem more than game one 12:30:20 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 26.0/20131215102647]] 12:31:17 DracoOmega: i have little problems with showing stuff that i'm even completely unsatisfied with, just to get more input - of course you'd be likely to just hear what everybody does not like but that's how feedback works around here 12:32:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:33:09 I am hardly opposed to feedback, but a lot of the feedback that you get is completely unhelpful PARTICULARLY when stuff is unfinished and out of its proper context. I generally saw no point in giving people stuff to complain about that might even get reverted before it hits trunk anyway. And surely not every minor implementation detail needs to be discussed in advance when the core thrust of what 12:33:09 is being done already has? 12:33:52 For that matter, I think it's often more helpful to see how something plays in practice than to assume it will be bad without testing it. I hardly do things off-the-cuff and just hope it works out. 12:35:26 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:16 isn't it better if people complain about the stuff that gets reverted anyways, as opposed to the stuff that you end up with and consider good :o 12:36:26 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2144-gdc1a567: Planerend -> Plane Rend (|amethyst). 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc1a5679a111 12:36:28 People are very good at generating useless feedback, but making things available for the feedback that *isn't* useless is generally a good idea IMO. 12:37:01 If you're worried about things being taken out of context, just make sure you're explaining adequately what the context is supposed to be; some people are going to complain about things out of context anyway. 12:39:19 Grunt: Well, it's not like feedback has to stop once things are committed :P 12:39:53 (Like it ever would) 12:42:39 I think the point I'm trying to make is - we all make bad design decisions now and again, and getting the feedback to help us realise when that happens sooner rather than later ultimately saves a lot of hassle in the long run. 12:44:19 I think I was quite attentive to the content that I created in the past. Certainly I revised a lot of it more actively in response to playtesting than most things in trunk, I would say 12:44:51 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:51 -!- Zermako has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50:04 Pretty much 'all' that's left now is population adjustments 12:50:06 DracoOmega: hmm, while I was out getting milk, I was thinking it might be a good idea for you to push your bigger batches of stuff to branches for a day or two. (Forgive me if you have already been doing this: my memory is terrible, and anyway you seem to have only just resumed work on crawl, and actually I haven't been paying *that* much attention for the past month(s) ...) 12:50:40 that way people'd have time to be like "noooooo that's my favoritist thing ever that you propose to remove!" 12:51:04 Generally that is not the kind of thing I am typically accused of doing :P 12:51:15 well, okay, maybe a bad example 12:51:32 Unless someone was really attached to deep elf soldiers, I guess? ^6; 12:51:38 I doubt it 12:52:24 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:53:17 * SamB wonders if there's a way to use such branches to construct a refspec to more easily review a given batch of changes even *after* the branch is merged ... 12:53:22 er, revspec 12:55:01 (Oh, that is another technical reason I haven't favored public branches, incidentally - so that I can squash bugfix commits together and them place everything directly on top of master afterward. I find it hard to review the changes some branches make when their commits end up inserted in and among things stretching back potentially weeks) 12:55:16 I know that a few branches that got merged in past were extremely hard to see what was changed by them, due to how they were merged 12:55:33 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:56:36 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:41 Randart rings are treated as identical to their base type when swapping by raskol 12:57:14 right i also rebase and squash the shit out of public branches 12:57:30 doesn't matter much as long as it's not master imo 12:57:44 DracoOmega: FWIW I don't think anyone would seriously expect a branch with a name starting with Draco to have a stable history 12:58:17 SamB: Haha 12:58:39 because you've repeatedly mentioned that you like to squash fixes into your other patches 12:58:54 and to say the least, gitorious interface doesn't ease working with branches either so why even bother :) 12:59:13 ... what's this "gitorious interface"? 12:59:19 what indeed 12:59:30 please tell me when you've found it, heh 12:59:30 ChrisOelmueller: I did think it was supposed to be some major no-no to change the history of something anyone else might have touched 12:59:53 Potentially introducing various obscure problems when your histories no longer match up 12:59:54 you'll just want to inform them (all of them) 13:00:00 DracoOmega: yes, well, that's why I'm suggesting you include the word Draco in the branch name so people know what they're getting into from the get-go 13:01:07 so when you're working on something in a team on that branch, sure i'd restrain myself a bit, but that's not the case here is it? 13:01:11 the idea being that this is more-or-less adequate notice that history will in all likelyhood be change 13:01:44 ChrisOelmueller: Well, at least 3 people have pushed commits to the demonspawn enemies branch. Yes, it doesn't happen that often for many of them, I guess 13:01:51 in fact, I think most branches named for people would be likely to be treated in this manner 13:02:05 I can think of four off the top of my head <_< 13:02:59 that is also not the branch we'd been talking about earlier though, presumably :p 13:03:24 anyways yes, don't mean to distract you even further from finishing that stuff 13:03:29 Well, not all of those were involved at the start either! I just mean that people might have a tendancy to pop by or fix something (or cherry-pick something to master, even) 13:03:37 DracoOmega: so yes, as ChrisOelmueller points out, you don't want to rewrite history in branches to which multiple people are expected to push, but those named after people usually aren't such branches 13:04:23 cherry picking to master should be less of a big deal, though it would be helpful for you to notice when it has happened so you don't try to squash bugfixes onto that change ... 13:07:42 -!- Blazinghand|Work is now known as getmoript 13:07:48 -!- getmoript is now known as Blazinghand|Work 13:12:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:14:55 -!- defeeca has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:15:19 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:16 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:31 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:52 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:24 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 13:30:13 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:59 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:58 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:43:30 -!- Naphistim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:46 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:48:42 -!- HellTiger___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:43 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:00 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 13:52:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:04 <|amethyst> FR: eating fruit counts as cannibalism for vine stalkers 14:00:36 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:45 which half of the vine stalker? 14:01:53 <|amethyst> half-cannibalism I guess :) 14:02:19 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:50 I guess an apple tree differs from some vine species by more than an orc does from an elf 14:03:06 (and not even in a Tolkienish world) 14:03:45 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:39 <|amethyst> yeah, as much anyway 14:04:46 <|amethyst> Rosaceae is a very diverse family 14:04:51 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:00 <|amethyst> but I don't think there are any vines in genus Malus 14:05:18 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:07:06 <|amethyst> (though in the real world, I'd guess orcs and elves would be the same genus) 14:08:50 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:16 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:41 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:29 fr: vinestalkers get faith effect for Fedhas <_< 14:17:25 full faith is maybe a bit over the top, but some kind of bonus would be nice indeed 14:17:55 anything goes to get fedhas more of the deserved love 14:18:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:19:03 I'm currently playing a VSFa on my dev server :p 14:19:33 (Fa)rmers start out worshipping fedhas with 0 piety 14:19:46 since d1 mushroom men is pretty powerful 14:20:56 so are d:6 ones really :-) 14:21:16 yea. I found a fed altar at the start of d2 once and it was AWESOME 14:22:39 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 14:23:08 -!- Taimou- has quit [] 14:23:13 sounds like in the long term, backgrounds that start out worshiping a god may not be a desired thing. so the idea probably won't go anywhere. but it was fun to do 14:23:36 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:49 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:10 ..hmm 14:34:31 aa. -> You feel fantastic! A piece of fruit is consumed! 14:34:44 (terrible terrible idea) 14:34:44 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:17 granting the possibility of interesting tactical challenges produced by powerful ranged monsters confined to water (though this is not universally agreed) I think that we are losing something by removing wellsprings. A brief conversation in the other channel has given me the idea that the perceived problem with wellsprings comes from the combination of knockback, creating shallow water, and summoning coupled with their tendency to bu 14:35:17 ch up. Maybe they could be re-added and tweaked in some way? 14:35:57 Just reducing frequency alone would help the latter point, and has been mentioned several times 14:36:07 I've just had no time to examine anything about their current state, given this other stuff I'm doing 14:36:50 ah excuse me, I haven't been keeping up with developments as much as I like to 14:37:12 I've been slaving away at the forst dispersal project, and some work on new stuff for Snake 14:37:40 cool, I'm excited to see it 14:37:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:38:09 I am trying to push through the last of it. Probably won't be TOO long now (though that doesn't necessarily mean today, mind :P) 14:38:46 A few other things I planned to do I decided can wait until after this is merged, since it's not really wholly dependant upon it and I think it's better to get this out there first 14:39:43 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:39:47 yeah this sounds like a big improvement in the works and I certainly don't want to push wellsprings onto your desk while you're working on this 14:39:59 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:08 -!- Bovinius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:07 Haha 14:41:12 I have been readily putting more things on my own desk as it is 14:42:00 wellspring sure would make a mess of my desk 14:42:04 imo don't push it there yes 14:47:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:22 <|amethyst> Grunt: sublimation of sap 14:50:25 yeah, wait on bringing back wellsprings until we've already shattered balance again 14:51:20 you're so positive after your forest removal went through 14:51:23 it's incredible 14:53:13 "after"? 14:53:34 Forest isn't removed, and its removal is only one of proposals 14:53:49 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:36 did we revert manda-forest yet even? 14:54:44 with the others being? 14:54:46 from Vaults, yes 14:54:54 ChrisOelmueller: making it a rune branch 14:55:03 heck, it's a pretty good branch, better than most 14:55:08 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:55:33 oh right i saw some incredibly weird lines the logs but didn't believe you actually meant it until now 14:55:47 if there are doubts, lemme push my current version 14:55:53 removal, removal, removal 14:56:16 maybe I should have titled it "make swamp and shoals not suck" from the start 14:57:02 now how do i put this in the most neutral way possible, your design decisions and ideas haven't been the best recently some might believe 14:57:12 slow Chei is slow 14:57:17 ChrisOelmueller: me or tenofswords? 14:57:29 -!- HellTiger___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:11 not tenofswords 14:58:36 New branch created: mossy_rune (7 commits) 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2155-g56ecd47: Don't place Forest ends if Vaults exist. 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 31+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56ecd47b9a89 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2156-gca1d99d: Add a rune to Forest ends. 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca1d99dea4d9 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2157-ga2e6d81: Spawn the Forest 50% of the time instead of Vaults. 10(7 hours ago, 3 files, 8+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a2e6d81c708c 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2158-g7d3e698: Don't list Vaults on ^O if Forest has been seen. 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d3e698cc7b4 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2159-g639f801: Reduce the weight of the dummy Forest entry. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=639f80111dfc 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2160-g6b6700d: Drop ex-vault tags from Forest entries. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b6700db7568 14:58:38 03kilobyte02 07[mossy_rune] * 0.14-a0-2161-g99bf287: Massively increase the loot in Forest end vaults. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 30+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99bf287efe70 15:00:39 delicious insanity 15:02:17 -!- Flex has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:27 if only it had been tomb instead of V 15:06:29 ...turning Forest into a rune branch? 15:06:53 don't worry, nobody understands this 15:07:02 even double-checked the date 15:11:09 tenofswords: while i think tomb would be a better fit for replacing than vaults, i don't think either would work very well with presently constituted forest 15:11:37 i don't think forest is hard enough to be a fair switch with tomb, and i think it's too hard (and less fun) to replace vaults (probably the best branch at this point) 15:12:33 making things harder is much easier than making things easier 15:13:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:13:43 make forest a switch for blade 15:13:45 (even then this is solving a problem but breaking on of the best arrangements in the game so) 15:16:03 or just replace HoB with Forest until a better HoB is made? 15:16:08 -!- ystael has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:16:13 -!- ystael_ is now known as ystael 15:16:26 i figure if there was much of a push to remove blade it would have happened before now 15:16:39 but yes i would say blade is a worse branch than forest 15:17:02 if I ever become competent, revamping Hob sounds like fun 15:17:11 since kb dislikes V and likes Blade that is not very close to what kb would ever do 15:17:12 the Vaults revamp was pretty awesome 15:17:31 and quite inspiring 15:17:52 yes but you see since every game does it it's a bad branch 15:18:04 unlike blade 15:18:06 I just deleted another vaults revamp from git :p 15:18:15 by due 15:18:28 deleted in what way? 15:19:12 the "git push gs :vaults" way 15:19:21 tenofswords: blood saints, SPELL_MELEE, y/n? 15:19:34 (I can't remember why it's there to begin with unless it was to cut down on spell spam) 15:19:44 hall of blades is basically the branch that is harmless 15:20:04 it's the most optional branch ever 15:20:17 possibly to also cut down on them killing themselves 15:21:18 ambivalent for either way, really 15:22:02 i bet xom would find them killing themselves hilarious 15:23:46 someone mentioned in the devlog removing pan 15:24:12 I can see a Pan revamp, but removing the part of the game that has about a third of all the zot runes? 15:24:12 I'll leave it for now until we see how these Pan out (heh). 15:24:44 I swear there was something else I wanted to do before I landed these. 15:24:55 also the idea to make every rune equally difficult sounds insane 15:25:14 (Also if DracoOmega's major work is forthcoming I'll hold off until then so as not to do anything obviously merge-conflicty.) 15:25:16 how the hell are you going to make snake pit on par with difficulty with one of the hells 15:26:03 is it about the weird polymorph status 15:26:13 The which? 15:26:16 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:26:54 well, the bases are in the hd range for shapeshifters and they're mh_natural technically speaking but it's kind of weird since they're still something like demons? 15:26:55 Lightli: timing? so the player is more capable at that point normally? 15:26:56 also the idea to make every rune equally difficult sounds insane 15:27:00 maybe that's because it's insane 15:27:01 Oh right. 15:27:09 I don't think that's what I had in mind, but. 15:27:20 yes 15:27:31 I mean, if someone has proposed such a thing I hope they meant it that way ... 15:27:37 make every floor as difficult as D: 1 15:27:37 dck: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:27:42 i think demonic rune is easier than snake 15:27:48 because otherwise, yes, it's about as sensible as what dck proposes 15:28:00 divorced from the rest of this stuff I like the idea of a swamp as hard as gehenna 15:28:05 actually, hmm, just how difficult *is* D:1 ? 15:28:08 maybe it's 50% tmons 15:28:14 Swamp:27 15:28:24 SamB: most deadly place in the game, at least :p 15:28:30 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:22 -!- rossi has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:31:08 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:23 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:24 D:1 would be easier if you weren't so weak 15:34:18 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:15 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:53 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:24 Insightli 15:37:39 Are you sure it's not Unsightli? 15:37:42 <_< 15:38:40 -!- Furril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:26 -!- djanatyn has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:41:33 i just reached * piety with dith and _You are shrouded in an aura of darkness! doesn't seem to be in the god channel 15:41:38 it wasn't magenta, at any rate 15:43:12 <|amethyst> wheals: good catch, working on it 15:43:28 |amethyst: it also happens with TSO's halo right now. 15:43:29 oh man new god? 15:43:37 <|amethyst> Grunt: thanks 15:43:38 |amethyst: that's why I did not have it on the god channel. 15:43:46 I wasn't sure if the TSO one was intentional or not :) 15:44:04 is it on xperimental branch or in trunk? 15:44:10 <|amethyst> LexAckson_: trunk 15:44:11 LexAckson_: trunk 15:44:15 <|amethyst> LexAckson_: as is a new species 15:44:20 cool, i'll try it out 15:46:03 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:17 i had fun playing vine stalker on Xperimental 15:46:26 !lg * !boring VS-- 15:46:26 428. Jenx the Martial Artist (L9 VSMo), worshipper of Dithmengos, slain by a yak (kmap: hangedman_ranch) on D:8 on 2014-01-27 21:45:17, with 2169 points after 6036 turns and 0:18:59. 15:46:41 Got a nice sample size going 15:46:46 mmm 15:46:50 Lots of people dying 15:46:53 Also how is every VS death I see from lg in a hangedman vault 15:47:00 haha 15:47:06 rawr 15:47:16 they feel like trolls in challange mode 15:47:17 !lg . VS 15:47:17 3. gammafunk the Summoner (L12 VSIE), worshipper of Sif Muna, mangled by a spiny frog on Lair:6 on 2014-01-27 02:34:45, with 14202 points after 8197 turns and 1:25:54. 15:47:47 Basil: Your species is broken... 15:48:17 Yeah the early game is very TAB 15:48:23 played a Be for a 3 rune 15:48:30 VSBe 15:49:18 I was able to just tab through early enemies as an IE, which is kind of cool since I actually had decent int the whole time 15:50:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:50:22 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:50 <|amethyst> I imagine "Couldn't promote monster to priesthood." is an error message, not a normal one 15:51:40 Perhaps God just wasn't in its heart... 15:52:46 <|amethyst> oh, I guess maybe "force" is a wizmode param? 15:52:51 <|amethyst> I'll leave those alone for now 16:00:58 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:13 huh 16:02:19 your shadow mimics vamp draining 16:02:25 does that actually heal you 16:03:14 good point; for spectral weapon I think it heals the weapon, but for the shadow there's nothing to heal... 16:10:55 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:15 <|amethyst> how do I get dithmengos penance? 16:12:26 |amethyst: OPEN FIRE 16:12:43 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:48 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:13:09 <|amethyst> I just get "You feel guilty" 16:13:11 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:17 <|amethyst> and nothing for conjure flame (??) 16:13:28 several actions leading to penance have no warning whatsoever by the way 16:13:43 like using fiery abilities 16:16:26 |amethyst: there's a small chance when using hellfire 16:16:32 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:41 and nothing else 16:17:12 <|amethyst> aha 16:17:18 <|amethyst> (not hellfire burst though?) 16:17:27 <|amethyst> I guess players can't cast that one? 16:17:29 not sure 16:17:44 both I think 16:18:06 penance is for using the beam type 16:18:30 <|amethyst> I guess that one is too marginal to list in ^! ? 16:18:53 I'd rather made it so penance is a real thing 16:19:01 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:31 as it is, you can empty a couple of wands of fire, losing a single star of piety 16:19:45 really ought to give you penance 16:20:56 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2156-gf6e0bd5: Put more penance-related messages on MSGCH_GOD (wheals, Grunt) 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6e0bd55ed3f 16:21:02 <|amethyst> as far as I can tell, you can use conjure flame all you want as along as you don't burn tree 16:21:07 <|amethyst> s/ / a / 16:21:44 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:07 does he get mad if you burn trees with lightning? 16:24:45 <|amethyst> apparently not? 16:24:51 <|amethyst> err 16:24:51 <|amethyst> wait 16:25:50 <|amethyst> yeah, apparently not 16:26:43 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:54 -!- gnum has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:05 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:31 <|amethyst> yeah, it's only _burn_tree, which is called only by conjure_flame 16:28:44 whoops 16:28:49 some tweaking is in order clearly 16:28:57 <|amethyst> anyway, no time to fix it now, I must be going 16:29:00 while we're at it, someone should make firestorm burn trees already 16:29:04 gods work in mysterious ways 16:29:10 as does pretty much everything else in crawl 16:31:27 <|amethyst> also, inner flame isn't punished 16:31:32 <|amethyst> but ?immolation is 16:32:24 why not just make all Fire spells forbidden? 16:32:49 it's not like poison for TSO, where there are non-poisoning spells 16:33:29 Is lbolt forbidden currently? 16:33:37 pretty sure it is 16:33:38 no 16:33:50 at least, my wand of lightning isn't red 16:33:51 oh wait that's not what my tired mind thought it is 16:34:01 lightning bolt isn't bolt of magma 16:34:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:34:23 -!- praesident has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:16 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 16:36:25 fr: lightning magma 16:38:11 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:16 i read that as lightning naga 16:38:52 !send Grunt the elite lightning naga marksperson squad 16:38:53 Sending the elite lightning naga marksperson squad to Grunt. 16:39:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:10 !send wheals lightning scales!!!! 16:39:10 Sending lightning scales!!!! to wheals. 16:39:31 fr volcano spell 16:42:25 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:25 fr a monster defined by having elec branded slings 16:47:28 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:44 electric faun 16:48:19 halfling eels 16:48:58 eel annihilators 16:49:38 marksraiju 16:49:58 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:36 what about chaos slings? chaos bows are sure fun 16:51:38 Also can we have the reformed Klown brand available to the player on an unrand 16:52:05 %git HEAD^{/klown} 16:52:05 07tenofswords02 * 0.14-a0-1985-g8192e1e: Replace pointless Killer Klown brands (and thus buff them) 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8192e1e52834 16:52:21 make of variabliklown 16:53:10 would it still cut into player mp 16:53:15 Does AF_DRAIN_SPEED just cause slow when used on a monster? 16:53:57 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:54:04 probably 16:54:34 A Klown unrand is actually kind of a cute idea I might code up 16:54:40 Does anyone strongly object? 16:54:51 Speak now or forever hold your Klown 16:54:57 clearly it would be named "the Ringmaster's...uh 16:55:06 what's a good weapon type for clowns 16:55:19 gun 16:55:25 baton 16:55:26 electric buzzer 16:55:29 I was thinking it's like a slap-stick, so m&f? 16:55:37 slapstick <3 16:55:57 Slapstick 16:55:58 squeaky hammer 16:56:02 haha 16:56:08 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:56:10 good excuse to bring back hammers! 16:56:14 give it to crazy yuif 16:56:36 although I guess hammers still exist, don't they 16:56:39 ??hammer 16:56:39 hammer[1/3]: Hammer, Damage Rating: 7, Accuracy Rating: +3, Base Attack Delay: 13 16:56:40 yes 16:57:00 why do clubs still exist anyways 16:57:08 ??club 16:57:08 club[1/2]: A heavy piece of wood that falls into the Maces & Flails category. Damage: 5. Accuracy: +3. Delay: 13. In 0.13 and older, could be thrown, usually at you. 16:57:13 ??club [2] 16:57:13 club[2/2]: Not a terrible weapon forged in the fires of hell -- just a terrible weapon. 16:57:46 ...time for a couple of probably ultimately irrelevant commits. 16:58:00 * gammafunk cowers in fear... 16:58:13 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2157-g23fb7de: Make formicid enemies dig like player Fo. 10(70 minutes ago, 3 files, 14+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=23fb7deecf9f 16:58:13 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2158-g65f686f: Revive a monster Ignite Poison implementation for FoVM enemies. 10(41 minutes ago, 4 files, 109+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65f686f80ba4 16:58:13 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2159-g2beed7a: Make vine stalker enemies less of a dummy. 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 37+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2beed7a36fd5 16:58:15 probably? 16:58:15 Only three! 16:58:23 uh 16:58:23 ....haha 16:58:31 And "probably" because I don't necessarily expect any of these enemies to stick around for a heck of a lot longer (if they exist at all). 16:58:39 yes, there is a slight problem there 16:58:43 That and I already coded a monster Ignite Poison implementation :P 16:58:57 ...why did I have a feeling you'd say that <_< 16:59:02 Fo enemies won't exist? 16:59:07 (Then made a single-target version to give to an enemy) 16:59:13 so there are three versions of monster ignire poison? 16:59:20 For Snake in this case 16:59:37 Let me guess, they poison you, then ignite you? 17:00:11 My personal thought on formicid enemies was to make the plain formicids come in small bands, be a decent bit buffer, rarish, and sometimes have large rocks, and just remove venom mages for now, since I didn't see much great to do with them and Spider's set was overall good already 17:00:36 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:00:39 AoE Ignite Poison seems quite bad in a place where all the enemies are hurt by it (poison cloud, too) 17:00:49 Poison cloud will destroy spiders much more easily than it will hurt the player 17:01:07 What I was thinking is that they could possibly be moved elsewhere where they're not surrounded by vulnerable targets. 17:01:09 Those brave, brave Fo venom mages... 17:01:20 (If not, they can just be tossed out...) 17:01:20 Perhaps 17:01:33 I hate to think we both implemented the same thing, though :P 17:01:34 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:01:34 new strategy, start a djinn, dive to spider, regularly get immersed in flames 17:01:38 (I wonder whose code is best? :P) 17:01:54 Grunt's has a min/max bug... 17:01:58 just guessing... 17:02:09 * Grunt gestures. gammafunk seems to burn from within! 17:02:18 (grunt is a minmaxer?) 17:02:22 Grunt: Oh, um... I think you left in the bit where it would instantly destroy every bit of poison ammo you're carrying? 17:02:27 I'm terrible at minmaxing <_< 17:02:32 Among other similar issues 17:02:32 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:48 !messages 17:02:49 No messages for TZer0. 17:02:57 !tell TZer0 because you need a message now and again! 17:02:57 Grunt: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 17:03:02 I overhauled the effects versus the player, since some of them were really bad when used offensively instead of backlash against the caster 17:04:33 "ha ha you carried around some poisonous chunks burn" 17:04:57 * Lightli mutters something about there being 1 species too many in trunk 17:05:09 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:22 oh, burning poisonous chunks in inventory, that's great 17:05:24 Also the damage is independant of power, unless your a naga or kobold or something 17:05:26 Lightli: is kobold removal really urgent? 17:05:36 I was thinking dj removal 17:05:37 (And really, really high if heavily poisoned) 17:06:05 i think the what's being said here is that it doesn't work so well as a monster spell 17:06:20 Well, I overhauled the anti-player effect, since some of it seemed very bad in that regard, yes 17:06:26 (or removing halflings and buffing kobolds to compensate) 17:06:27 In the stuff I am working on presently 17:06:58 I did make the AoE version actually work for monsters too, with this revised anti-player effect, though didn't give it to anything (since it seemed awkward in most contexts except arguably player ghosts) 17:06:59 Not going to put that good stuff in a branch, or do we have to be patient? 17:07:09 I was hoping to be insane and finish it enough to push today 17:07:21 I don't know how feasiable that is 17:07:46 If it's mostly population weighting, surely you can trust some of the rest of us to help with that. >_>; 17:07:47 -!- freddy57 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:53 -!- mooose has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:02 It's not a matter of trust, but it's hard for two people to work on that at once :P 17:08:14 Also housekeeping 17:08:51 Perahps we can have an in-game git demon like nethack used to have a mail demon, just a thought 17:09:00 "used to"? 17:09:07 it still does? 17:09:29 Maybe that's a compile-time option 17:09:37 -!- feariself has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:10:37 spots of blood marked with friendly tips before recently changed things 17:10:53 maybe even attach tvs to them 17:10:59 brilliant... 17:12:23 also need karoshi sprint 17:12:37 Grunt: In any event, before I merge (which may or may not yet be tonight), do you mind reverting that ignite poison implementation given the problems it has? I don't mean you even need to do with this the FoVM (though I mentioned my reservations there), but rather just that I think that my implementation is a lot less problematic when used against the player than that one, for several reasons. (An 17:12:37 d it will make it much easier to merge at any rate). I might have mentioned if I'd expected anyone else would have done it! 17:14:07 -!- Unflexed has quit [Client Quit] 17:20:38 -!- praesident_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2160-gc7e3927: Revert "Revive a monster Ignite Poison implementation for FoVM enemies." 10(12 minutes ago, 4 files, 30+ 109-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7e39278c090 17:25:44 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2161-gcfacb10: Harshen piety hits for Dith firestarting; fix some edge cases. 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 17+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cfacb1039cb9 17:26:40 Grunt: Thanks! (And really sorry about that =/) 17:26:56 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:22 can at least look forward to the ds getting in pretty soon 17:28:44 I'm waiting until DracoOmega is done for that one :b 17:29:17 I'm working, I'm working! ^^; 17:29:26 Grunt: does your shadow copy your weapon brand 17:29:31 the eternal question 17:30:01 Bloax: No. 17:30:11 :-( 17:31:28 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:33 -!- xxx has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:35:19 Grunt: why vs enemies 17:38:23 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:50 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:40:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:44:37 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:45:51 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:10 -!- minmay_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:13 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:45 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:45 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:46 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:47 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:47 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:47 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:48 -!- bd- has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:48 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:48 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:48 -!- lavos has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:48:59 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:38 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:10 -!- stabwound has quit [Changing host] 17:50:11 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:39 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 17:56:27 oh, right, grunt, if you want something to do 17:57:05 since worldbinders are in the ds-enemies branch... abyss can probably lose the guests 17:58:20 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:01 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:02:18 -!- Brokkr has quit [Quit: und weg...] 18:02:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:03:23 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:41 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:56 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:13:02 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 18:18:51 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:22:30 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:15 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:35 Webtiles menus won't go away by pubby 18:33:28 -!- Hellioning has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:34:09 anyone know if a ring of sustenance will have any effect on a spriggan while a regen effect is happening? 18:34:13 (as from the ring for example) 18:34:28 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:34:40 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 18:35:58 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:38 Webtiles monster/player tile glitch by pubby 18:37:02 -!- minmay_ is now known as minmay 18:37:18 G-Flex: ring of sustenance affects spriggans normally. its just that hunger rate cant go below 1, and spriggans normally have 1 18:37:18 minmay: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:37:31 G-Flex: if you increase it with regeneration or whatever, yes, sustenance will reduce it 18:37:32 minmay: yeah I just don't know what is applied in what order 18:37:44 I take what you're saying to mean it's effectively applied after everything else 18:37:45 so good 18:37:46 thanks 18:37:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:38:17 possibly there's weird stuff it doesn't apply after but I am 99% certain it applies after all sources of regen hunger 18:39:58 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:41:41 -!- beef42 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:16 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:13 -!- ertdfgcb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:20 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:34 <|amethyst> the only thing that applies after ring of sustenance is chei's "slowed life processes", and that doesn't matter except for rounding because they're both multiplicative 18:46:41 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:47 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:11 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:04:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:29 -!- raskol_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:03 -!- ertdfgcb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:13 -!- praesident has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:58 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:04 !messages 19:30:04 (1/1) Grunt said (2h 27m 7s ago): because you need a message now and again! 19:30:20 !tell Grunt but now I don't have one anymore :( 19:30:20 TZer0: OK, I'll let grunt know. 19:33:01 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:14 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:49 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:47 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:39:50 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:05 -!- ddr_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:13 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:37 <|amethyst> ¡learn add :beh: .* ::: !tell TZer0 Hi, $nick said $body 19:52:37 Okay, not adding :beh: => .* ::: !tell TZer0 Hi, $nick said $body 19:52:53 <|amethyst> (doesn't actually work, though I imagine there's some way to do that) 19:53:28 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:53 Every message in crawl-dev goes to TZer0? 19:57:02 -!- TheMattybee has quit [Quit: <@katagi> *draws a fridge rotom barfing pokemon guts everywhere* *asks when the next harry potter movie is coming out*] 19:57:12 <|amethyst> or ##crawl or any other channel Sequell listens on 19:57:24 or maybe even /msg ? 19:57:54 <|amethyst> yeah, though that would work even less well, because /msg foo !tell definitely won't work 19:59:09 * |amethyst \foos sequell 19:59:14 * |amethyst foos sequell 20:00:00 You die... 20:00:00 Save macros? 20:00:02 cute 20:00:50 * tenofswords wonders about a wave of learndb updates 20:02:06 clearly prepare them in your redaction 20:02:56 no clearly I'll start by writing up the ds enemies 20:03:05 which are public! 20:03:19 1learn add chaos_champion pan_unreasons 20:05:28 ??pan 20:05:28 pan[1/4]: An infinite dungeon branch, Pandemonium consists of an infinite number of dungeon-type levels. Pan levels are populated with demons instead of dungeon monsters. Pan entries have a 25% chance of generating on each of D:21-27, and one is guaranteed on D:24. 20:05:38 make pan[5] refer to it as "new forest" 20:05:50 pffff 20:06:05 newforest is going to be shoals and swamp and snake, obviously 20:12:12 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:09 Silly vine stalkers 20:14:16 I've had to rebase this same commit twice in two days because of them :P 20:14:49 Oh, on second glance this isn't as bad as it looked at first 20:16:43 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:13 ??newforest 20:22:13 I don't have a page labeled newforest in my learndb. 20:23:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:29:49 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 20:30:22 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: Good Night and Good Luck to all!] 20:34:10 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:29 -!- gnum has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:27 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/shadowform2.png ? 20:35:41 (i flipped it and changed the colors, that's all) 20:36:15 As long as it's different from the normal shadow tile, it'll do for now >_> 20:36:32 mm 20:37:10 i'm having the same problem i always do 20:37:15 ontoclasm: he looks kind of....happy... 20:37:17 i.e. i made that thing and then forgot how 20:37:27 gammafunk: yeah, i changed the shape of the eyes 20:37:41 "Being a shadow is so much FUN!" 20:37:56 i figured the player wouldn't be as... morose as a normal shadow 20:37:57 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:25 Makes sense, the player hasn't been languishing in the dungeon for untold eons 20:38:38 Well, I guess that's not true for the undead players, but... 20:40:41 -!- Grujah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41:04 hm, maybe i should make stuff for jelly and mushroom form 20:41:08 and wisp 20:41:17 !wtf jelly form 20:41:17 Unemployed Unperson 20:41:21 probably i could just recolor them since they're not nearly as common 20:41:26 !ftw jelly form 20:41:26 jelly form?? 20:41:34 good question indeed 20:41:49 it has move delay 11 20:41:51 somehow 20:41:55 that is all i know 20:42:04 (fr it doesn't) 20:42:10 It was made when jellies were speed 9 and never finished because even their designer realised it was a bad idea. 20:42:19 oh did it get nuked 20:42:23 (considering said designer is also responsible for the other badforms, well) 20:42:31 treeform is fine 20:42:51 pigform is basically perfect 20:43:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:49 pigform has also been around for a while. 20:45:38 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:41 -!- raskol_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:52:24 fr uniques that polymorph the character into each type of badform so attention is suddenly paid towards them 20:54:15 is there an easy way to make myself a mushroom in wizmode 20:54:29 &^P (or is it ^F) 20:55:14 ^Fungus 20:57:35 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/shadows.png 20:57:52 can love bloom between formless masses of darkness? 20:59:56 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-2162-g062a2ce: Shadow & mushroom form tiles 10(32 seconds ago, 5 files, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=062a2ce7d35b 21:00:02 Haha 21:00:32 alternately: 21:00:33 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/fungi.png 21:02:10 ....are they in love? 21:02:36 no, they're just too terrified of each other to make a move 21:02:44 ...so, maybe? 21:02:54 heh, never seen two f hostile to each other 21:03:04 but it could happen with shadow creatures I guess 21:03:16 well the green one is the player 21:03:46 i can punch the other one but i can't leave him/her :C 21:04:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:05:21 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 21:08:10 crawl can now simulate dysfunctional relationships? 21:08:35 that's leardb worthy right there 21:08:41 *learndb 21:11:52 surely the relationships of making things into time-bombs and then enslaving them already simulated bad enough relationships 21:13:28 -!- ertdfgcb has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:42 The orc misses you. You hurt the orc's feelings! You skewer the orc!!! 21:14:19 little heart icons over your fulminant prisms 21:14:42 i should make them into broken hearts 21:15:53 little heart icons over the eldritch tentacle that turn to :| as the tentacle suddenly thrashes and writhes and spills blood everywhere 21:19:23 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:48 I noticed this strange bug that I'm not sure is fixed where tentacled starspawn tentacles sometimes show the tile of a malign gateway tentacle 21:21:00 hm 21:21:02 In certain "tentacle positions" anyhow 21:21:09 I should test to see if that still happens 21:21:33 maybe if the tentacle code can't find the "upstream" segment? 21:22:15 So much staring at spreadsheets.... O.O 21:22:15 yeah, I'll take a look and mantis it if i can figure it out 21:23:10 actually I didn't even think of it until now 21:23:28 but how are the xp averages for the lair branchs in comparsion to after the everything 21:24:00 You mean, how much does this change then? 21:24:09 them* 21:24:16 The spreadsheet stares at DracoOmega. DracoOmega suddenly loses the ability to move! 21:25:07 yes 21:25:42 I am trying not to make much effect, but it's hard to avoid some boost when one of the design goals included pruning some chaff 21:26:03 shoals batssssssss 21:26:09 Such as that, yes :P 21:26:15 The difference should, I think, be fairly mild compared to how much is in later branches anyway 21:26:49 Like, maybe an extra 15k? (Last I checked, Vaults had like 220k or something) 21:27:14 is that in terms of average xp in the branch? 21:27:23 obviously just reduce the lair branches to 3 levels each 21:27:51 gammafunk: Yes, overall 21:27:56 Not per floor or anything silly like that 21:28:04 would argue that didn't really benefit elf much 21:28:22 -!- tali713 has left ##crawl-dev 21:28:33 (Honestly, cutting a floor or something from Depths would have far more impact and possibly be called for for other reasons anyway) 21:29:08 you have to add D:17 if you do that though 21:29:17 no, clearly we add zot:6 21:32:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:27 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 21:34:31 the stairs down are under the orb 21:35:02 "Well done, mortal! But now thou must pass the final test..." 21:35:31 good point, zot:6 should be accessible through the d:1 stairs 21:35:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:58 -!- DrKe has quit [] 21:36:00 and it should be 5 levels long 21:36:12 no no no that's against the entire point 21:36:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:51 oh i see 21:36:55 it should be 27 levels long 21:37:01 just lock it off unless you have fifteen runes and then put in vaultmonster orb guardians themed around each rune 21:37:14 kill everybody with speed 14 hell sentinels 21:37:45 also get to bring back lamia 21:37:58 as a unique hell sentinel 21:38:02 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:03 that is also a centaur 21:41:21 with M_MAINTAIN_RANGE 21:41:56 no no no maintain_range is the gossamer orb guardian 21:42:41 orb guardian spider 21:42:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:45:15 orb of fire guardian spider 21:45:37 great orb of fire guardian spider 21:45:48 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:30 -!- gnum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:05 -!- Turgor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:02:27 We have ignacio 22:02:39 !lg purplered ikiller=ignacio 22:02:40 1. PurpleRed the Devastator (L25 TeCj), worshipper of Vehumet, demolished by Ignacio (a +5,+5 executioner's axe of pain) in Pandemonium on 2014-01-12 01:31:18, with 668665 points after 32798 turns and 14:38:39. 22:02:45 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:02:48 I watched that with such glee... 22:05:46 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: Say What?] 22:06:33 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:12:15 I want to stoooop T.T 22:12:48 But the light at the end of the tunnel is just close enough that I want to finish 22:15:09 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 22:15:39 * Grunt goads DracoOmega on! DracoOmega goes into a berserk coding frenzy! 22:16:04 Doesn't working for most of the day already count? :P 22:19:49 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:20:08 fr: new monster, Orc Developer >>> Orc Warlord 22:20:15 * Grunt just had a random idea: rod of fetching - target items to apport them, target monsters to pull them towards you too!! 22:20:39 Grunt, the water harpoon thing for crushers is kind of similar to that 22:20:53 GET OVER HERE 22:21:35 It's a cute idea as a rod, though 22:21:43 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:44 Grunt: fetching idea 22:21:53 It has a certain pull to it, doesn't it? 22:22:01 Grunt: it grabbed my interest 22:22:05 It reels you in, yes 22:22:10 Really tugs at the heartstrings... 22:22:30 Just don't start yanking players' chains... 22:22:36 it makes me think of brogue rods 22:22:40 er, staffs 22:22:51 (clearly the name is "fishing rod") 22:22:52 <_< 22:23:00 For the fish supplies shop! 22:23:16 which is always terrible for me anyhow 22:23:35 then we can maybe have a zelda-style fishing subgame 22:23:37 i remember when that vault was in like every game 22:23:45 Yeah I see it in 0.12 a lot 22:24:14 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:21 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:27:24 when are we getting rods of obstruction 22:27:37 What does that do? Tomb Other? <_< 22:27:46 (which we already have, of course) 22:28:08 well, it's closer to using grates than silver 22:28:17 And they can be blown up by monsters, yes? 22:28:39 oh it was removed 22:28:39 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:57 I have grate expectations for it, then. 22:29:08 that would explain why i haven't seen it in a long time 22:29:16 also it melts each tile at different rates 22:29:16 obstruction is the coolest effect 22:29:45 clearly add rod of hasting 22:30:00 rod of haste other 22:30:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:30:41 rod of conjuration -- summons friendly dancing weapons 22:31:00 rod of discord -- what do you _think_ it does 22:31:18 rod of conjuration would be closer to using drowned souls than dancing weapons, really 22:31:34 drowned souls? 22:31:50 just wait a little longer 22:32:34 rod of entrancement would be fascinating and also probably not fit in crawl in the slightest 22:33:09 as someone said before, you already mesmerise monsters 22:33:14 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:33:22 (regarding the demon axe) 22:33:44 but you don't attack in one direction and make the monster attack in the opposite direction! 22:34:34 ok i guess i haven't actually ever used entrancement 22:34:38 scroll of shattering would be pretty awesome 22:35:05 hand it over to xom 22:35:08 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:10 potion of incineration - sticky flame everything in sight 22:35:14 mm 22:37:26 pit bloat: shaft spores 22:37:27 quaff invis first 22:37:53 wear mda first 22:38:12 fire is quite a ways more dangerous than that, anyway 22:38:29 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 22:38:44 tenofswords: potion of hostile orbs of fire? 22:38:55 neutral orbs of fire, duh 22:38:58 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:30 I'm suddenly envisioning a spell called "_____'s Incineration", just so we can have "_____'s Incinerator" as a wizlab <_< 22:39:31 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:56 Grunt: it would be a lvl6 Fire los spell 22:40:06 No no, it should be distinct from refrigeration :( 22:40:07 our tentacled monstrosities don't hit hard enough 22:40:15 (when will be get ozo's refrigerator wizlab) 22:40:19 or regenerate fast enough 22:40:52 the tower of eternal incineration 22:41:08 It is hot here. You smell smoke... 22:41:35 what would ozo's have besides simulacra and refridgerator statues and something random bein given flash freeze 22:41:47 fr ancient chaos wyrm 22:41:47 s/statues/coils/ 22:41:48 e.g. what makes it not an ice cave 22:41:49 <_< 22:42:00 isn't that more than isky's 22:42:24 Clearly it will have Ice Storm. 22:42:25 Somehow. 22:42:26 Who knows. 22:42:32 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:42:43 final boss has passive ice storm 22:42:50 like passive freeze but more explosive 22:42:50 * tenofswords suspects grunt read the git history for wizlab_ozocubu and saaw black ice statues 22:45:48 %git 0a718b7 22:45:48 07due02 * 0.6.0-a1-1473-g0a718b7: A start on the Ozocubu vault. 10(4 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 40+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a718b7a41cd 22:48:40 KMONS: CYH = swamp drake name:mutated_drake n_des n_rpl col:magenta 22:49:24 ... 22:49:45 the best part is it blinking 22:50:24 alternatively # Todo: work out what happens next??? 22:50:30 Haha 22:50:49 can the entirity of crawl just be filled with that 22:52:20 looking at it it doesn't seem to be too different from an icecave, true 22:53:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:56 possibly it could be distinguished by more spellcasters with ice spells though that would mean ~*~vault monsters~*~ 22:55:03 would rather just have an ice cave that pretends to be a wizlab instead of a wizlab that pretends to be an ice cave 22:57:13 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:40 I like the idea of having Ozcabu's wizlab filled with ice mages like fennar 22:59:26 like, just ice mages and ice statues, no ice monsters (unless they're summoned) 23:00:03 Sp: legendary destruction (42d1), 23:00:11 I think I may need to write a couple of patches for monster. 23:00:32 i wonder what maxwell's silver hall would be like 23:00:44 silver 23:00:44 Oh right, I just remembered what the tweak I wanted to make is. 23:01:11 was it fixing the spell sets for different numbers 23:15:39 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:20:11 Now to have fun squashing these two branches together.... 23:20:54 I 'look forward' to continual enum conflicts 23:26:35 alchemist card interacts with shopping list? by rchandra 23:34:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:34:51 Oh yeah, just what I need to have happen ages into fixing conflicts is for the whole thing to randomly blow up 23:35:07 With those mysterious file handle permission errors 23:36:23 -!- ertdfgcb has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:37:40 -!- Hellioning_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:40:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:27 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 23:46:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:46:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:29 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:53 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2145-gc795168: Stack nonbase demonspawn HD sizes, AC, EV on base demonspawn values. 10(7 minutes ago, 3 files, 50+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c79516800e4f 23:53:53 03Grunt02 07[demonspawn-enemies] * 0.14-a0-2146-g1437299: Get nonbase monstrous demonspawn to SInv properly. 10(65 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1437299f7f3f 23:54:36 (hm, I just noticed that a gray nonbase draconian doesn't have more AC than a red nonbase draconian, as you might expect) 23:54:51 * Grunt goes to sleep. 23:55:42 From back before greys got extra AC, no doubt 23:55:49 Oh, nonbase 23:55:56 Purple MR is weird that way too 23:56:08 purple draconian (06d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 83-117 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(149) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1234 | Sp: b.quicksilver (3d20) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:56:08 %??purple draconian 23:56:11 purple draconian annihilator (12d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 69-91 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1493 | Sp: b.quicksilver (3d20), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:56:11 %??purple draconian annihilator 23:58:50 can that be fixed easily?