00:03:58 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:42 I don't know if this change was in response to what I came in here a while ago talking about, but thanks if it was 00:04:43 Let people choose old monster colours. 00:04:44 Like in previous versions. 00:05:05 just wanted to let you know that it gives errors because of old monsters that I guess were removed 00:05:54 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 (34) 00:06:30 -!- chewymouse has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:38 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 (34) 00:10:50 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10:50 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 00:16:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:16:09 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 (34) 00:18:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 (34) 00:22:29 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 00:23:43 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:01 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:54 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:39 -!- Somefellow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:51 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:14 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 00:47:52 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 00:49:34 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:49:54 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:15 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:01:02 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:05 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:13 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:07:07 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:40 -!- Change123 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:14:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:38 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:21:26 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 01:23:03 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:16 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:17 -!- TehIce has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:32:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:32:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:33:23 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:53 -!- agenius has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:36:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:38:55 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:56 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:37 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:42:33 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 01:43:08 -!- axle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:43:58 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:40 -!- maahes has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:46 -!- maahes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:55 -!- ScrubSalty has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:51:19 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:52:12 -!- Amy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:59 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:53:49 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:56:34 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-1863-gcc20582 (34) 01:58:03 -!- ToxicSpawn has quit [] 02:01:43 -!- trilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:03:53 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:19 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:58 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:06 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:25 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:18:52 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:26:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:28:09 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: [inhales drool, coughs violently]] 02:29:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:43 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 02:47:25 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:47:31 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:50:13 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:54:25 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:02:59 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:02 -!- Amy is now known as flappity 03:04:11 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:04:11 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:07:52 -!- maahes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:45 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:40:48 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:41:05 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:39 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:53:28 "unlinked item held by dead monster"? 03:54:15 If this is interesting, look at skillrobin on cao. 04:11:45 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:34 -!- conted_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:22:37 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:38:21 -!- ereinion has quit [] 05:03:31 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:51 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07:30 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:08:21 -!- Tormi has quit [Client Quit] 05:22:23 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 05:41:01 -!- Konstantin___ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:42:25 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:46:01 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:44 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:55 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:13 -!- debo has quit [Quit: debo] 06:37:21 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:02 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:46:30 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:10 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:35 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:01:57 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:07 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:07:12 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:14 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:19 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:25:12 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:26 -!- ssteam has quit [Client Quit] 07:27:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:31:15 <|amethyst> Nivim: probably too late now, but if you encounter something like that again, do (or have the player do) a save backup 07:31:40 <|amethyst> Nivim: unfortunately there's no way to do that from webtiles ATM 07:32:01 |amethyst: Take a look at skillrobin on cao, my browser says it's still there. 07:32:10 Still want the backup? 07:32:17 (I know how to switch to ssh.) 07:32:52 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:53 <|amethyst> Yeah 07:32:58 <|amethyst> and put it on mantis if you don't mind 07:45:18 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 07:53:40 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:56 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:38 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:49 -!- ampilon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:12:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:26:07 -!- ssteam has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 08:30:35 <|amethyst> FR: give an {unreachable} tag to seen but unreachable items 08:31:14 A {prize} tag would be nice for the fun loot in baileys and portals 08:31:37 almost missed !cmut in a halberd bailey 08:32:33 <|amethyst> Basil: that item could just as well have been a potion of curing :/ 08:33:22 <|amethyst> (there are some guaranteed rare consumables including cure mut in some axe baileys though) 08:33:47 Doesn't matter much, so long as I can ^fprize and get out instead of looking through the trash 08:34:11 <|amethyst> Basil: for something like that you might instead prefer to colour floor items according to good_item etc 08:34:58 Does that work when it's not the top thing in a stack? 08:35:01 <|amethyst> oh, I guess not 08:35:09 <|amethyst> but it won't be in your stash if it's not the top thing in a stack 08:35:20 oooooo 08:35:24 Finished exploring. 08:35:25 <|amethyst> until you walk over the item, which should pick it up 08:35:41 hmm, I don't have cmut on autopickup due to item destruction 08:35:46 <|amethyst> do you have it off autopickup I guess? 08:36:05 I suppose the underlying fr is remove item destruction 08:36:29 <|amethyst> (would be nice to have a simple way to have autopickup of an item on in disconnected places and off in connected ones) 08:36:42 <|amethyst> even without item destruction, I might not want to carry all of those around for weight reasons 08:37:07 mm, on another note, monster movement is sort of complicated 08:37:34 Making allies trample toadstools while swapping was fairly simple, but it's less easy to make them trample to follow you. 08:38:36 -!- Amy has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:53:47 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:25 -!- axle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:59:28 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:19 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:34 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:40 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:02:35 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:58 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:58 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 09:02:58 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:02 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08:30 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:50 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:18 -!- SkaryMonk1 has left ##crawl-dev 09:15:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:28 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:07 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:23:10 03Cedor02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-1864-g6e63e72: Remove mp rotting ability abuse 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e63e72083bd 09:23:10 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1865-gb9d2de1: Use ability cost, not 1, in permanent MP check. 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b9d2de159cd0 09:23:10 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1866-gbe88033: Improve a message. 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be8803360cbb 09:23:10 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1867-g83fd2d1: Remove include_items parameter of enough_mp. 10(10 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83fd2d1517a4 09:23:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:31:01 was there ever a discussion on why praying affects all corpses in LoS for fed but not the other corpse sacrificing gods? 09:31:59 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33:38 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:45 -!- araganzar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:20 <|amethyst> The reason it does for Fedhas is to allow you to make toadstools (which you can then convert) far away 09:34:25 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:37 <|amethyst> the reason it doesn't for other gods is mostly that no one has implemented it 09:35:28 <|amethyst> though it would mean you have to butcher the corpses you want to eat before sacrificing the rest, whereas now you can do it in any order 09:35:48 well fed already has to worry about that 09:35:58 <|amethyst> yeah 09:36:23 <|amethyst> also, at least Nemelex would need to keep the current style of sacrifice 09:36:46 <|amethyst> (Yred worshippers have to worry about the same thing once they get enough piety to upgrade their first ability) 09:37:36 ok 09:37:40 <|amethyst> But I don't think there is any big problem with having Trog/Lugonu/etc sacrifice all corpses in sight 09:38:10 that might be a simple enough and trivial enough thing for me to chew on 09:41:00 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:41:01 <|amethyst> let me check whether there's something on mantis 09:41:26 <|amethyst> oh, see also #5129 09:41:32 !bug 5129 09:41:33 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5129 09:41:36 <|amethyst> there are a few bugs with fedhas sacrifice 09:42:08 at least one of those doesn't apply if nothing's being made 09:42:14 <|amethyst> the cloud one is specific to Fedhas and is there for a reason (so you don't make toadstools that will be killed by the cloud) 09:42:21 <|amethyst> but could be improved 09:42:36 <|amethyst> (since not all clouds are dangerous) 09:44:31 Another "bug" is that you can wade through toadstools and leave your mushrooms behind 09:44:51 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:54 <|amethyst> #1165 09:45:09 <|amethyst> though the wiki page it refers to has moved I guess 09:45:44 !bug 1165 09:45:44 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1165 09:45:57 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:21 regular sacrificing seems way better than fedhas sacrificing to me now, since you just explore as normal with autosacrifice 09:47:11 <|amethyst> It would be a buff against animators 09:47:24 <|amethyst> which might or might not be desired 09:48:08 <|amethyst> It's mentioned here, but without much discussion: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:interface_ideas#sacrifice_change 09:49:19 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:51:05 autosacrifice is off by default though, right? 09:51:14 the interface seems fine with auto_sacrifice currently but if a change is needed i would suggest removing corpse sacrifices, anyway 09:51:25 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:52:10 except for fedhas's which do at least have some tactical relevance, maybe 09:54:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:56:03 <|amethyst> corpse sacrifice has relevant for necromancers and trolls 09:56:12 <|amethyst> s/vant/vance/ 09:56:30 <|amethyst> as it means they are likely to have less piety progress than most characters 09:57:04 <|amethyst> not tactical, more short-term-strategical 09:57:18 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1870-g74961bf: Adjustments to Shadow Form. 10(5 minutes ago, 9 files, 58+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74961bfa77b7 09:57:32 I'd be fine with doing away with corpse sacrifice, but we might need to poke at the piety gain of those gods who do employ it right now. 09:58:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:28 |amethyst: its not that relevant 10:01:14 |amethyst: well, maybe for oka, now that he allows allies and because the strong monsters are the ones you probably want to revive but also give the most piety 10:01:27 |amethyst: for makhleb it doesn't really matter because he's makhleb 10:01:34 |amethyst: same for trog 10:01:49 Don't corpses reduce the gift timer for Trog? 10:01:57 sure, they give piety 10:02:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:34 trog is strong though, so the only reason to keep them for trog is flavor 10:02:41 imo only the oka sacrifices are cool 10:02:55 well, somewhat cool 10:03:04 Sacrificing your first hydra is neat 10:03:41 oh, fedhas sacrifices are also fine i guess 10:04:28 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:04 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:14 Fedhas sacrifices make perfect sense 10:05:24 you give up what might be a perfectly good meal for some allies 10:07:25 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1871-gb7d98d8: Update Shadow Form's ability description. 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b7d98d8d064b 10:07:35 oh wow, really? 10:07:37 nice 10:07:52 mikee's? 10:08:04 Sort of 10:09:01 Experimental (shadow-god) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1871-gb7d98d8 10:09:02 It's kind of diverged from that proposal in a couple of ways, but the basic ideas are still the same. 10:10:07 What's the duration of shadow form? 10:11:08 After that most recent adjustment, and assuming I'm crunching the numbers on this correctly, about 70 turns on average (which my gut instinct says is still too long). 10:11:58 How long does Finesse last? 10:12:49 40 + random2(8 * invocations) to a cap of 80 turns. 10:12:55 (Really, that long?) 10:13:18 It lasts a while. 10:13:21 er, 800 aut, not 80 turns, obviously. 10:13:35 (I'm taking "turn" to be 10 aut and not the player turn here.) 10:14:46 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:12 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:20:52 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21:38 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:23:55 Turn is kind of a synonyme for 10 aut. 10:24:23 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:07 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:32 Jessica (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(4) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 25 | Sp: b.pain (d7), b.slow, haste, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:25:32 %??Jessica 10:25:37 ??pain 10:25:37 pain[1/3]: L1 necro spell, exclusive to the Book of Necromancy. Inflicts 1hp non-fatal damage on the caster. Does 1d(4 + pow/5) damage, with a limit of 25 power, and bypasses AC - but checks MR and only affects monsters without life protection, or players without torment immunity. 10:31:14 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:34 Grunt: the glowy stuff seems problematic 10:31:54 Grunt: lots of stuff makes light, for example lightning 10:32:17 Grunt: also a bunch of spells has bright tiles, like ood for example 10:33:04 When we've been discussing things here the past few days, the idea came up that Dith is okay with lightning because it's really brief and it throws the darkness that comes afterwards into a very stark contrast. Or something. 10:33:20 Who cares about what tiles look like <_< >_> 10:33:27 Grunt: so I don't know how good a conduct it is, the theme is good but it might suck for gameplay 10:33:43 also it will feel inconsistent for a lot of people 10:35:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:54 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:37:34 mm, your allies can flatten toadstools in 0 turns by the grace of Fedhas, but enemies have to hack through them normally 10:37:41 is that acceptable or no? 10:38:33 I don't think Fedhas would do that 10:39:19 maybe he bends them out of the way or something, and when the ally is done moving through theres a clear path 10:39:51 he could also put them back in the ground so they can regrow in time 10:40:26 The alternative is that Fedhas swaps the ally and toadstool. 10:40:39 nah thats stupid 10:40:44 is there a message? if not it's fine IMO 10:40:54 the removing, not the swapping 10:41:47 Currently there is 10:41:52 I can remove it. 10:47:54 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:16 If there's a message it needs to be good 10:50:20 Alternatively I could just make it exclusive to wandering mushrooms and say that Fedhas gives them leeway in these matters 10:50:32 since they're a plant 10:51:47 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:52:49 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:50 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:57 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 10:55:31 Well, probably nobody will notice and if people notice they can make up their own explanation, it should be fine 10:56:12 On the other hand a message might be good, because toadstools being removed can be important for fedhasites 10:56:19 I don't know :/ 10:58:27 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:10 -!- lukano has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:36 -!- luukano has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:15 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:03:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:41 -!- ebarrett has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:09:20 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11:21 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:13:06 why is there a temple with whole 8 altars 11:14:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1867-g83fd2d1 (34) 11:19:23 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:31 i don't understand your question 11:21:37 personally i like it when temple has fewer gods 11:21:41 i like overflow altars 11:23:23 Make watchers normal font weight on spectator list by araganzar 11:30:45 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:30:52 why can't i hold all these altars? 11:33:07 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:35:03 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:05 Grunt: "Your shadow (rarely/some times/often) mimics your actions" is not mentioned in the ^ screen. 11:39:37 Eh? I've seen it there, even though the verb doesn't update. 11:42:00 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:53 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1872-g471d3dd: Don't let shadow actions trigger at less than 4* piety (Bloax). 10(46 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=471d3ddc29b2 11:49:29 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:35 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1873-g5b55b38: Tie Shadow Step range to umbra radius. 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b55b3866476 11:55:23 <|amethyst> wheals: if shadow-god went in as it is today, overflow altars would be guaranteed 11:55:26 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:55:57 i honestly wouldn't mind temple removal 11:56:06 <|amethyst> wheals: since there isn't a temple map big enough to include all the current temple gods plus Dongsmithe 11:56:14 <|amethyst> that's been suggested too 11:56:45 40 + random2(8 * invocations) to a cap of 80 turns. 11:56:47 of course, most likely temple maps would be changed to have at least a few with space for all the gods 11:56:50 except i can't train invocations :D 11:56:57 Bloax: that's Finesse, not Shadow Form duration. 11:57:40 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:19 temple is cool 11:58:41 Speaking of landing things, a few people are bothering me about vinestalkers again <_< 11:58:49 could be smaller or have some deserted altars 11:59:20 well, people say they are better than Dj, and those are in trunk ;) 11:59:33 alefury: not that I necessarily have an opinion on Temple going away or not (I don't), but what does that do that a multi-altar temple overflow doesn't? 11:59:45 03araganzar02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-1868-g7851bcc: Make watchers in spectator list normal weight 10(45 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7851bccfefcf 11:59:47 nothing 11:59:55 I just like the theme 12:00:12 a place for the gods, protected from the monsters, where they all play nice with each other 12:00:28 it's neat 12:00:44 make it a portal vault 12:00:48 Grunt: it provides a solid place to actually find your god 12:00:50 anyway, got to go fast or the food may be gone 12:00:54 !lg * place~~shrine 12:00:55 6. Eifeltrampel the Covered (L2 MDFi), worshipper of Trog, mangled by an orc warrior in Shrine on 2009-11-11 09:33:08, with 99 points after 921 turns and 0:03:37. 12:00:56 THE FOOD COST 12:00:58 instead of having to scourge every single corner 12:01:05 i mean in real life 12:01:09 this is not a joking matter 12:01:11 !!! 12:01:13 <|amethyst> Bloax: you have to scour every corner to find the entrance :) 12:01:17 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 26.0/20131215102647]] 12:01:25 <|amethyst> make wrath not count down while in the temple 12:01:27 in exchange for most gods most fo the time 12:01:28 <|amethyst> maybe not trigger 12:01:29 and then you can be dissapointed not to find the god 12:01:39 <|amethyst> that would eliminate one of the complaints 12:01:40 instead of looking for this one tiny vault for this one specific god 12:01:41 |amethyst: how will mummies wear off wrath??? 12:01:45 <|amethyst> wheals: exactly 12:02:16 Going to d:1 and waiting out the spawn timer 12:02:48 the only thing we'll really lose is the division between temple and non-temple gods 12:03:07 and that could be restored by removing early jiyva altars so we have d:1-9 gods and late gods 12:03:10 <|amethyst> wheals: that division would still exist because overflows are temple gods only 12:03:38 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:04:07 <|amethyst> but "without entering the temple" challenges couldn't exist anymore 12:04:59 <|amethyst> or at least would have to be vastly different and probably harder, like "no gods before D:10" 12:05:32 hmm 12:05:39 Reach D:16 without ever worshipping a god (demigods don't count). 12:05:45 Get a rune without ever worshipping a god. 12:05:51 etc. 12:05:57 Is it me or is monster pathfinding through trees or shrooms strange? 12:06:26 I spawned Lerny in forest and he was erratic in going through trees to get to me when other dudes were around 12:06:44 <|amethyst> trees or plants? 12:06:47 trees 12:06:54 <|amethyst> he can't go through trees 12:07:06 ??lernaean hydra 12:07:07 lernaean hydra[1/4]: A nasty unique in the official release since 0.6.0, but hidden in the source long before that. Rumours say it's a yellow D with 27 heads. Appears in two of the Swamp endings. Thanks, due. First person to kill Lernaean hydra, moq! Congratulations! 12:07:08 <|amethyst> and its int is low enough that it can't pathfind very far around them 12:07:13 the Lernaean hydra (08D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 5233 | Sz: Giant | Int: reptile. 12:07:13 <|amethyst> %??lernaean hydra 12:07:17 <|amethyst> int: reptile 12:07:24 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:33 !source mons_flattens_trees 12:07:35 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8630077 12:07:39 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:07:50 <|amethyst> oh 12:07:54 <|amethyst> when did that happen? 12:08:00 good function 12:08:14 Dunno 12:08:18 well, the main thing is 12:08:33 my fix to allow wandering mushrooms (and other allies) to flatten toadstools 12:08:43 <|amethyst> never mind, it's been there forever 12:08:44 it works until there's another path, no matter how circuitous 12:09:06 (or rather, one that involves not flattening toadstools) 12:09:37 <|amethyst> Bloax: could probably add something in _set_mons_move_dir and maybe a few other places 12:09:53 Bad tab? 12:09:54 <|amethyst> err 12:09:56 <|amethyst> Basil: 12:09:57 <|amethyst> yeah 12:10:05 <|amethyst> Bloax: err, sorry, mistab 12:10:10 <|amethyst> doh 12:10:19 clearly restab potion should fix that 12:10:41 resist tabbing? 12:11:05 <|amethyst> restab is a spell that lets you get a good stab someone who's already awake 12:11:26 Restab restores your tabbing ability. 12:11:31 Just like sustab sustains it. 12:13:04 <|amethyst> sustab is another name for posixtab 12:23:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:31 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:30:56 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:09 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:13 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:32 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:52 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:53 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:59 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:44:19 -!- stuntaneous has quit [] 12:48:20 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 12:50:49 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 12:53:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:50 |amethyst: why isn't there a dith folder at http://dobrazupa.org/meta/ ? 12:55:25 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:27 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:56:47 <|amethyst> buppy: because I forgot to make it, thanks 12:59:32 !send buppy !!!!!!!!!! 12:59:33 Sending !!!!!!!!!! to buppy. 13:05:29 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 13:07:20 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:07:23 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 13:08:02 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:07 Grunt exciting spells and ranged combat when 13:09:44 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 13:10:07 dck: ranged combat needs a rewrite :| 13:12:46 what about spells? 13:13:09 The puff of frost hits Xtahua!! 13:13:24 The crystal spear hits the orb of fire!!! 13:13:45 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:40 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:40 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 13:23:40 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:10 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:37 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/dcsstitlescreens.zip 13:35:16 -!- anidude has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:51 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: huh? 13:36:23 just cutting 514 kb of not very much 13:36:26 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 13:37:53 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:38:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:43:38 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:52:12 :lne 13:53:43 :qa 13:53:50 Basil: hi, this isn't your text editor :) 13:54:08 /join ##crawl-vim 13:54:13 <3 13:54:15 <|amethyst> Basil: was that just from running optipng and advpng or did you do something more in-depth? 13:54:18 <|amethyst> gah 13:54:22 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: was that just from running optipng and advpng or did you do something more in-depth? 13:54:30 <|amethyst> doh 13:54:45 i crunched four images down to 256 colors 13:54:51 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:54:53 wouldn't that bloat our repository ...? 13:54:58 (namely the zot demon (yuck), kikubaaqudgha and the two whitenoise images) 13:55:11 and then threw them through the ScriptPNG meatgrinder 13:55:25 <|amethyst> SamB: bigger repo vs smaller downloads 13:55:39 true 13:55:44 <|amethyst> SamB: since probably more uses download binaries or even a source tarball than use git 13:55:48 <|amethyst> s/uses/users/ 13:56:00 it'd probably also reduce net traffic on the webtiles servers a bit 13:56:10 <|amethyst> yeah, that as well 13:56:10 since i notice they're downloaded each time you load it up 13:56:10 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:56:21 which is pretty much why i did it 13:56:24 I guess we can't do it at build time? 13:56:36 -!- Tarragon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:51 also what is ScriptPNG 13:57:19 http://www.css-ig.net/scriptpng 13:57:26 -!- partial has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:57:50 a bruteforcer with an array of png optimization tools 13:58:07 read: cheibriados approved 13:59:11 well, which tools actually helped? 14:00:03 most likely truepng, pngwolf and pngzopfli 14:00:09 along with defluff and deflopt 14:00:17 <|amethyst> hm 14:00:34 <|amethyst> I ran optipng and advpng on your outputs and ended up with exactly the same files 14:00:37 <|amethyst> so that's nice :) 14:00:52 Bloaxor: what, it doesn't tell you what worked after? 14:02:19 It's more or less a sophisticated .bat file, so doing that would be a bit tricky. 14:02:33 oh 14:03:18 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1869-g612a313: Optimise title screens (Bloax) 10(3 minutes ago, 14 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=612a3135768c 14:04:57 i-uh 14:05:02 i better find out what's doing this 14:05:05 ? 14:05:18 "wall.png" 14:05:18 In : 1324082 Bytes 14:05:18 Out : 898695 Bytes - 425387 Bytes saved 14:05:18 doing what 14:05:32 ah 14:05:34 that's a pretty big difference 14:05:48 and that wouldn't even bloat the repo ... 14:07:20 it would certainly increase the build times though :p 14:07:37 Total: 1755 KB [1797148 Bytes] saved. 14:07:40 ouch 14:07:48 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:09:34 Although I'm curious as to how https://github.com/gameclosure/gcif would perform. 14:12:29 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:00 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:41 -!- namad8 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:16:47 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21:47 -!- Cedor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:43 Summoner monsters who kill themselves do not unsummon their minions by tasonir 14:24:31 is there any chance that you'll add in a screen sowing which uniques i've killed this game? 14:24:34 *showing 14:25:06 maybe also show which ones remain 14:25:26 I think the most probable is o separate them in the dump 14:25:40 but i dont want to go look at the dump 14:25:41 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:26:14 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:41 I can understand this :p 14:27:04 but I was answering to your 'is there any chance" question 14:27:09 Bloaxor: well, obviously we'd need a way to do it with tools that are in (or can be added to) Debian ... 14:27:39 ?: also lists them, but not very well 14:27:40 Medar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:27:55 Medar: ? then what key? 14:27:58 Oh goodie, I got allies to walk through toadstools properly now 14:28:01 oh, notes? 14:28:02 -!- Tarragon is now known as Basil 14:28:12 Right 14:28:16 hopefully not knowing what I did won't be an impediment 14:28:17 -!- Konstantin___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:41 well 14:28:59 obviously this is more of a fun feature than a useful one 14:29:16 it would still be neat to see them all on one page 14:29:33 maybe highlight the ones ive seen but not yet killed 14:30:52 maybe it could be on the } screen 14:31:00 sure 14:31:44 that screen is almost useless since you can get the same info and more from % 14:34:23 hum 14:34:49 is there a difference between anger mutation, and *rage item? 14:36:01 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1874-g8bf4254: Fix various bugs with shadow ranged attacks. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8bf42545b389 14:36:21 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:24 Experimental (shadow-god) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1874-g8bf4254 14:38:15 -!- Unflexed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:39:52 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:40:24 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:35 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:24 Let wandering mushrooms (and all other allies) flatten toadstools when swapping or moving towards you. by Sage 14:42:14 stasis protect from berserktisis? 14:43:35 Yes. 14:44:28 grmbl... 14:45:36 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:47:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:47:32 this will be a bit complicated... 14:50:40 Cedor: What are you working on? 14:51:07 *rage display instead of clarity in % screen 14:51:21 i'm not sur about what to do 14:51:24 ...Clarity does more than protect from berserkitis. 14:51:30 -!- soundlust|2 is now known as soundlust 14:51:57 i'm tempted do display rage : + when there is no clar or no stasis 14:52:00 yes 14:52:09 clarity is always display if present 14:52:40 (well, no clar or no stasis AND *rage ego or berserkitis 14:52:42 ) 14:52:44 do rage : + while berserk 14:52:48 rage : . if you can 14:53:07 this will add a lne 14:53:14 and i think it's bad idea 14:53:32 (and I think bein berserk is aleady quite obvious) 14:54:00 so is *rage 14:55:36 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:56 head ache too heavy... 14:56:00 good night guys 14:56:03 -!- Cedor has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:57:12 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:57:57 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:58:02 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:17 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:34 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:18 -!- rast2 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:48 -!- rast- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:01 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:03:01 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 15:08:02 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:09:29 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:10:38 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:32 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:14:46 -!- ystael_ is now known as ystael 15:16:14 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 15:22:51 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:27 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:27 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:42 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:56 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27:21 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:28:44 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:26 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:25 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:15 -!- iFurril has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:03 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:38:16 mmmh 15:38:19 this seems promising 15:38:48 Mm? 15:40:27 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:27 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:30 ahem 15:40:34 As I was saying. 15:40:39 Mm? 15:40:50 Are the current PNG files ran through optipng? 15:40:50 Mhm. 15:40:57 dck: mm? 15:41:01 Mmm. 15:41:17 hm, mmm. 15:41:27 Hm! 15:41:29 Bloaxor: depends on if the person who committed them remembers to do that. 15:41:35 They're supposed to be though. 15:41:42 I'm thinking the player.png and stuff like that. 15:42:03 (the big sheets) 15:43:49 I'm getting some serious bit savings here. 15:44:10 but yes 15:45:16 Current pipeline -> http://psydk.org/PngOptimizer (-file:[file]) -> http://sourceforge.net/projects/advancemame/files/advancecomp/1.18/ (-z -4 -i 5 [file]) 15:46:40 suddenly player.png goes from 1015 kb to 593 15:46:54 (technically KiB but whatever) 15:49:51 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:09 (You squash the .png like a bug!!!) 15:53:00 (You RIP AND TEAR the Cyberdemon's huge guts!!!!) 15:53:02 <|amethyst> I don't think we optimise the sheets 15:53:22 <|amethyst> we'd have to make sure the build servers have the appropriate tools 15:53:26 fr: cyberdemon 15:53:44 <|amethyst> and it would need to be optional so we don't demand those tools of people building at home 15:54:31 * geekosaur is now imagining a cross between an Executioner and a Cyberman 15:54:45 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: how's your Makefile knowledge? 15:54:56 i can't even compile a program 15:54:58 <|amethyst> :) 15:54:59 so exact zero 15:55:04 * Grunt ponders what he did with his iron giant patch. 15:56:58 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: if you file a bug asking for tilesheets to be optimised after joining (not necessarily with ScriptPNG, but even our usual optipng -> advpng pipeline would be a win), I'd probably promote it to implementable 15:57:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:57:33 |amethyst: What's the current pipeline? 15:58:01 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: see the end of docs/develop/tiles_creation.txt 15:58:10 okiedokie 15:58:20 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: but those are only on the stuff before commit, not the merged sheets 15:58:24 |amethyst: we don't already do that? 15:58:27 <|amethyst> so it's dev-time not compile-time 15:58:35 <|amethyst> SamB: not the combined sheets AFAICT 15:58:51 (the problem is that the only things that really exist in the final game are the sheets) 15:58:52 I've seen stuff in Makefile for it ... 15:59:22 The current pipeline is pngcrush and optionally advpng. 15:59:29 hmm 15:59:30 <|amethyst> ah, I see 15:59:32 (the one for the final big sheets) 15:59:44 <|amethyst> yeah, I missed that because I was looking for optimize-pngs or optipng 15:59:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:00:51 -!- Tellian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:57 Well crunching the sheets would definitely kick the build times up a notch. 16:01:03 hmm, how is optipng supposed to predict how well advpng can compress? 16:01:18 Bloaxor: only when they got stale 16:01:27 <|amethyst> SamB: It doesn't AFAIK, but they do different optimisations 16:01:50 AdvPNG is really mostly just a recompressor. 16:02:06 It probably does some tricks somewhere but that's not its main use. 16:02:07 <|amethyst> installing advancecomp and pngcrush on cszo 16:02:20 <|amethyst> so next rebuild should get us some smaller tilesheets 16:02:26 pngoptimizer is also of interest 16:02:35 |amethyst: shouldn't the tutorial include "apt-get build-dep crawl"? 16:02:48 the one for making your own server 16:02:53 since it's the only thing with source files i could find that sets transparent pixels to all blacks 16:03:34 Bloaxor: optipng doesn't do that? 16:03:45 <|amethyst> SamB: hm, possibly 16:03:53 it doesn't seem to have an option to leave it out 16:03:57 let's see if it does 16:04:28 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:05:07 <|amethyst> kilobyte: should pngcrush be a build-dep ? 16:05:16 <|amethyst> kilobyte: since advpng is 16:05:31 <|amethyst> kilobyte: s/advpng/advancecomp/ 16:05:34 maybe it's a bug in Makefile 16:05:38 or, wait, nevermind 16:05:44 (you don't need anything but advpng so :x) 16:06:08 advpng just recompresses IDAT isn't it? 16:06:35 most likely that's what the -z flag makes it do 16:06:51 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:02 hmm, also removes ancillary chunks it seems 16:07:04 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: it would be good to do measurements from various sequences of tools in the tilesheets 16:07:18 <|amethyst> Bloaxor: e.g. would it be better to use optipng instead of, before, or after pngcrush 16:07:30 hehehe 16:07:31 oh and supposedly it only works on AdvanceMAME screnshots or something 16:07:50 <|amethyst> :) 16:07:52 SamB: "supposedly" 16:08:16 And optipng -o6 doesn't clean the alpha channel. 16:08:45 <|amethyst> SamB: it probably wouldn't work on things like animated pngs, but it seems to be fine on the output of optipng with the flags we give it 16:08:46 I mean there's http://encode.ru/threads/1260-CryoPNG-short-introduction this mod of it that does something clever but >no source 16:09:03 <|amethyst> s/probably/possibly/ 16:09:30 -!- geekosaur is now known as allbery_b 16:09:39 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 16:09:39 <|amethyst> yeah, whatever we use needs to be in debian main or at least suitable for debian main 16:09:44 <|amethyst> preferably in 16:09:58 ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/apng/files/APNG_Optimizer/ this probably works on apng though :V ) 16:11:40 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:45 <|amethyst> CDO has advpng and pngcrush so it's fine; just installed those on CAO too 16:12:09 hm 16:12:28 <|amethyst> I'm kind of wary of asking TZer0 to install it given how slow clan rebuilds are already 16:12:32 not sure if it's already been mentioned, but there's an optimize-png script in utils 16:12:41 -!- Brokkr has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:13:02 it does optipng -o4 -i0 -fix and advpng -z4 16:13:12 <|amethyst> galehar: yeah, we were just noticing that that's not the same sequence of stuff that we do on the tilesheets from the Makefile 16:13:29 oh ok 16:13:38 anything I should worry about? 16:13:38 <|amethyst> galehar: but maybe pngcrush is better than optipng for tilesheets, I don't know 16:13:53 <|amethyst> TZer0: bandwidth versus build time tradeoff 16:14:06 oh 16:14:14 neither is a problem on my end - either direction 16:14:27 we're using a fraction of the bandwidth available per month 16:14:28 <|amethyst> TZer0: if you're interested in reducing bandwidth at the expense of some build time, you can install packages advancecomp and pngcrush on the host system 16:14:31 ah 16:14:40 pngcrush -blacken 16:14:42 nah, not important 16:14:44 <|amethyst> TZer0: clan build times are quite long though 16:14:57 yeah, so I don't want to increase them 16:15:04 I'd rather keep them like they're now - or lower... 16:15:26 <|amethyst> !tell johnstein if you're interested in reducing bandwidth at the expense of a little bit of rebuild time, you can install advancecomp and pngcrush on the host system 16:15:27 |amethyst: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 16:15:36 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:36 but I feel it to be kind of pointless to add more CPU-power when it goes unused 90% of the time.. 16:15:41 Well, the bandwidth reduction can also be important to players. As it does affect loading time. 16:15:53 <|amethyst> !tell johnstein Our makefile will automatically detect those and use them to optimise/recompress the tilesheets 16:15:53 |amethyst: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 16:15:54 oh 16:15:56 wait 16:16:02 |amethyst: looks like pngcrush would probably not be helpful to run before optipng 16:16:03 it will decrease load-time for players? 16:16:05 hmm 16:16:12 how much longer build-time are we talking about? 16:16:22 Potentially slightly. Not sure if it's significant. 16:16:31 oh, okay 16:16:34 <|amethyst> don't know about on your system since I'm not sure what makes the builds so slow there 16:16:44 It's clearly a raspi. <3 16:16:59 hahahahaha 16:17:02 Grunt: of course it is 16:17:20 I'm running it on my raspi in Poland which is on wireless internet (yes, you read that right) 16:17:34 <|amethyst> I assume it's a vm on Aleksi's server? 16:17:36 meh, possibly caching-issue 16:17:39 |amethyst: yeah 16:18:00 <|amethyst> TZer0: still, it's fairly slow even for a full rebuild 16:18:38 I thought it was SLOWER than a raspi 16:19:01 <|amethyst> I think kilobyte said slower or comparable 16:19:13 kb said the pi finished first 16:19:28 <|amethyst> right, but 5% faster or 30% faster? 16:19:45 specifically reported the raspi was done while clan was still compiling files in the middle 16:19:53 <|amethyst> oh 16:19:57 |amethyst: I wouldn't bother trying pngcrush first; it looks like it's not very good at depth-reduction stuff ... 16:20:00 (starting with l, IIRC) 16:20:13 SamB: It's worthwhile for the -blacken option. 16:20:34 eh? 16:20:57 To get some real bandwidth/load time savings, redirecting to old game_data files when they haven't changed could work. 16:21:22 <|amethyst> we use pngcrush -m 113; not sure what method that is 16:22:36 hmm, I guess the pngcrush manpage is out of date 16:23:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:09 <|amethyst> it may be that we just didn't update the makefile when we decided to go with optipng for individual tiles 16:24:16 <|amethyst> I haven't git blamed them 16:25:15 it's also possible that optipng doesn't actually do much better than pngcrush on the tilesheets 16:27:01 <|amethyst> %git f963c77b 16:27:01 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-2531-gf963c77: Run pngcrush in non-debug builds if installed. 10(3 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 11+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f963c77b26fd 16:27:12 <|amethyst> %git 46a2ee91 16:27:12 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-a0-408-g46a2ee9: Mention how to optimize PNGs. 10(2 years, 5 months ago, 1 file, 19+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46a2ee91edd6 16:28:35 <|amethyst> aha 16:28:45 <|amethyst> %git 87b6e4cb 16:28:45 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-2556-g87b6e4c: Use advpng (package advancecomp) instead if available. 10(3 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 12+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87b6e4cb8eef 16:28:51 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:08 is advpng up to date 16:29:25 <|amethyst> oh, I see 16:29:27 <|amethyst> I was misreading 16:29:35 <|amethyst> in the makefile we use advpng instead of pngcrush 16:29:46 https://github.com/subzey/zopfli-png 16:30:18 Eronarn: advpng has that 16:30:31 ah, cool, it was newer and i just assume linux tools don't have new things 16:30:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte: did you test optipng + advpng for tilesheets as is recommended for individual tiles? 16:31:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I had mistakenly thought we were doing both pngcrush and advpng in the Makefile but now I see that we do not 16:31:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and I see that you said in 87b6e4 that advpng was better on these sheets that optipng, but that doesn't make clear about combining the two 16:33:13 <|amethyst> Sounds like we need to run and document some experiments 16:33:44 pngcrush.exe -blacken -m 1 | optipng -zc6-9 -zm6-9 -zs0-3 -f0 | advpng.exe -z -4 -i 5 16:33:51 <|amethyst> I suspect kilobyte already has run them, but writing down the numbers (size + runtime for various combinations) would be good, for science 16:34:03 -!- tsohg__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:21 the (actually full) player.png goes down to 605 kb 16:35:12 -!- tsohg__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:23 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:08 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:22 -!- tsohg__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:26 skipping the "pngcrush -blacken" pass only brings the file to 620 kb 16:36:38 <|amethyst> I guess we wouldn't want -blacken on the individual tiles, so that artists can leave us steganographic messages 16:36:50 <|amethyst> but for tilesheets maybe 16:36:55 <|amethyst> 15 KiB isn't much though 16:36:56 tilesheets definitely 16:37:10 it takes less than a moment to do it though 16:37:10 <|amethyst> what's the relative run time? 16:37:13 <|amethyst> ah 16:37:14 so it's more than worth it 16:37:21 (-m 1 restricts it to one mode) 16:37:40 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:37:41 (and since it's relatively uncompressed it still works) 16:41:16 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:42:11 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:44:07 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:44:15 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:18 -!- PteriDactyl has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:20 -!- master_j has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:15 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:43 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:10 |amethyst: I extensively tested all available free optimizer tools, but it was a few years ago. There are new contenders, especially zopfli's advertising makes it sound as if it could be better. 16:54:14 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:26 it's pretty good 16:54:47 but anything but rather low settings is pointless for files as huge as the spritesheets in question 16:54:53 unless you want to wait 30 minutes for it to finish 16:55:03 for some extra -3 kb 16:55:11 at the time, optipng -z4 -i0|advpng -z4 was winning on nearly all files, except for ready tilesheets where optipng|advpng gave the same result as advpng itself. 16:55:21 <|amethyst> aha 16:55:42 basically 16:55:42 Bloaxor> pngcrush.exe -blacken -m 1 | optipng -zc6-9 -zm6-9 -zs0-3 -f0 | advpng.exe -z -4 -i 5 16:55:53 is a pretty solid combo 16:55:57 but as I say, new tools or updated versions of old ones might make things different 16:56:09 advpng got zopfli in 1.17 16:56:21 which was roughly a year ago 16:56:22 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:23 like, say, throwing away some useless chunks and also pixels with alpha=0 16:56:42 <|amethyst> yeah, that latter is what -blacken does 16:57:13 There's a more sophisticated way of doing it by setting it according to the PNG filters used. 16:57:23