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00:01:55 <bh> !seen |amethyst
00:01:55 <Sequell> bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
00:01:55 <Sequell> I last saw |amethyst at Tue Nov 26 22:20:09 2013 UTC (5w 6d 7h 41m 46s ago) saying 'Cedor:  when you kill one, you get either a spriggan or a giant firefly' on ##crawl-dev.
00:02:14 <|amethyst> huh
00:02:26 <bh> !tell kilobyte I don't recall coming to an encompassing set of characteristics for eldritchness
00:02:26 <Sequell> bh: OK, I'll let kilobyte know.
00:02:38 <bh> |amethyst: is cszo having server/ISP trouble?
00:02:47 <|amethyst> yes, network problems
00:03:17 <bh> 200ms ping / 20% loss :\
00:03:18 <|amethyst> I think part of the problem is, how do you distinguish it from undead and demons?
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00:04:37 <bh> obviously chaotic. Torment should hurt them. How about holy word?
00:04:39 <|amethyst> immune to holy wrath I guess... but would there be something they're vulnerable to
00:04:47 <|amethyst> hm
00:04:48 <Grunt> Silver.
00:04:56 <bh> though... tormenting an ancient zyme seems odd
00:04:58 <|amethyst> silver is kind of marginal though
00:06:14 <Ruffell> Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-1803-g6e87443 (34)
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00:11:41 <bh> |amethyst: time for a new ISP? :)
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00:13:39 <Gretell> Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13.1-23-gc5ac171 (34)
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00:23:19 <ontoclasm1> vulnerable to electricity because ___
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00:31:36 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1803-g6e87443 (34)
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00:36:15 <Rotatell> Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.13.1-23-gc5ac171
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00:56:16 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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00:56:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious.
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03:27:26 <galehar> kilobyte_: yeah, the condition change in initfile.cc was bad, but I wish you didn't revert the lang_name and directory changes
03:27:58 <galehar> the thing is gettext search translations in dat/lang/ll_CC
03:28:15 <galehar> and I don't think there is any way to make it work with ll syntax
03:28:40 <galehar> I don't want to have description translation in ll and messages in ll_CC
03:28:58 <galehar> which is why I moved all description translations to ll_CC in transifex
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03:31:42 <galehar> reverting the local move just broke the tx interface, it didn't fix anything about the lose of review states, history and membership
03:32:01 <galehar> I already deleted the old ll languages from transifex
03:32:58 <galehar> I can tweak txc so it puts .ini files in ll_CC and .txt in ll if you insist on keeping databases on ll
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03:57:04 * SamB thought gettext searched somewhere entirely separate ...
04:02:03 <galehar> separate? what do you mean?
04:02:32 <galehar> it does. gettext files are in dat/lang/ll_CC, description databases are in dat/descript/ll
04:03:06 <galehar> I just don't want to have duplicate languages in transifex
04:03:24 <galehar> descriptions in ll and messages in ll_CC
04:05:03 <SamB> that doesn't look like it matches what I see in (gettext.info.gz)Locating Catalogs
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04:19:22 <galehar> that's how it is in ChrisOelmueller's i18n branch (on github)
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04:20:00 <galehar> bindtextdomain("messages", "dat/lang/");
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04:22:33 <galehar> I don't mind moving it around, but I don't think it can be made to look for ll instead of ll_CC
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04:55:56 <Lightli> wait
04:56:04 <Lightli> you guys removed lamia?
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08:22:30 <johnstein> oh. wonder what was wrong with Lamia
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10:31:36 <SamB> galehar: also, what are these .ini files of which you speak?
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10:47:29 <kilobyte_> galehar: could you tell me if there's a single thing gettext gets us for descriptions, even forgetting about translating messages for now?
10:47:34 -!- kilobyte_ is now known as kilobyte
10:47:53 <kilobyte> galehar: we already need to do everything on our own
10:47:53 <Sequell> kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
10:48:22 <kilobyte> so what would be the point of going db->gettext->db ?
10:51:44 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1804-g89dae3b: Drop pointless redirection for god welcome speech. 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 13+ 113-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89dae3b81b83
10:53:50 <Lightli> how come lamia got removed
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10:54:01 <galehar> SamB: .ini files are the description files converted to be uploaded to transifex
10:54:07 <SamB> ah
10:54:09 <Lightli> (and why are you forcing everyone to do forest)
10:54:25 <galehar> kilobyte: you misunderstood, I'm not talking about using gettext for descriptions
10:54:25 <SamB> transifex can't understand .pot/.po ?
10:54:39 <SamB> Lightli: for TESTING purposes
10:54:47 <galehar> SamB: yes it can, but descriptions aren't in .po
10:54:52 <Lightli> k
10:55:14 <SamB> Lightli: do you think we should still give a 1/10 chance for Crypt to relieve the tedium or something?
10:55:23 <galehar> we could have used po, but it seemed better to use ini because db files have a key=value structure
10:55:25 <Lightli> yeah
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10:55:55 <SamB> galehar: oh, right, description files
10:55:55 <kilobyte> SamB: .po give us nothing, as they would be able to handle most of descriptions but nothing else.  So we'd just have an additional inconsistent system for parts of data, all the more to maintain.
10:56:25 <SamB> sorry, wasn't paying enough attention
10:56:49 <kilobyte> Lightli: the Forest is currently pretty bad, but if it's to be included in 0.14, it needs to be made less bad
10:56:49 <galehar> kilobyte: if we use gettext for messages, then the .po and .mo files will be in ll_CC folders. So when I push them to transifex, they end up in a ll_CC language
10:57:02 <Lightli> oh
10:57:05 <galehar> if descriptions are in a ll language, then I have all languages duplicated
10:57:10 <Lightli> that makes sense
10:57:43 <SamB> WTH, they changed a language code???
10:57:58 <galehar> what?
10:58:29 <SamB> for norwegian, in 2003, from 'no' to 'nb'
10:59:31 <kilobyte> galehar: even if for some reason you did want the gettext interface in-process (why???), reproducing it would take a couple pages of code or so.  The strength of gettext is in .po handling outside of the program -- which is useful for anything that uses fixed strings.  Crawl doesn't.
11:00:21 <galehar> kilobyte: what do you mean .po gives us nothing? gettext has very good support for pluralization, it also support context which can help a lot
11:00:40 <kilobyte> "good"? ...?
11:00:46 <galehar> crawl can use more fixed string, and builded strings are builded from fixed strings which can be gettexted
11:00:46 <SamB> it's no Inform ...
11:01:45 <galehar> er yeah, the handling of pluralization for gettext is great and very flexible. It can even handle crazy languages like polish ;)
11:01:58 <galehar> anyway, I have to go
11:02:14 <kilobyte> galehar: are we speaking about the same gettext?
11:02:24 <kilobyte> section "11.2.6 Additional functions for plural forms" in its documentation
11:02:43 <galehar> maybe you should check ChrisOelmueller's branch
11:02:48 <kilobyte> all it can do is provide a static string for 1, 2-4, many, and that's about it
11:03:13 <kilobyte> which breaks if strings have any details such as cases, gender, etc
11:03:42 <galehar> well, cases and gender can be handled with context
11:03:44 <SamB> oh, and only one number?
11:03:46 <galehar> I think
11:04:00 <SamB> I don't think so ...
11:04:28 <kilobyte> in Polish for example, two non-person m things are "dwa", two m persons are "dwóch", mixed m+f "dwoje", two f "dwie"
11:04:31 <galehar> well, there's some need to have code support of course, but using gettext is better than nothing
11:04:54 <kilobyte> which gettext can't do for you
11:05:31 <galehar> well, I'm not saying it will do everything for use, but we can build over its basic features
11:06:02 <johnny0> did this commit get blasted away? I don't see a "Reverted [hash] commit" or anything else about "no-monster-pickup". http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=2c5c58555ce98a3b4105baf4a483488edec7f2e1
11:06:05 <galehar> ok, I'll try to code some proof of concept since it doesn't look like I'm convincing you
11:06:14 <galehar> still, maybe have a look at ChrisOelmueller's branch
11:06:15 <kilobyte> gettext is good for translating a menu: a list of fixed strings.  As soon as grammar starts, gettext gets completely useless.
11:06:44 <SamB> kilobyte: well, not QUITE as soon as grammar starts
11:06:45 <galehar> I disagree. It's not useless.
11:07:03 <kilobyte> and translating those static strings means we'd end up with 10% of messages translated, which tends to be viewed as worse than not translated at all
11:07:04 <SamB> but as soon as you get dynamic nouns ...
11:07:30 <galehar> in the meantime, I'll fix the transifex interface to handle the ll -> ll_CC since you don't seem to want me to rename the folders
11:07:55 <galehar> anyway, have to go
11:07:56 <galehar> 'later
11:08:11 * SamB wonders if that transifex history is really irretrievably gone ...
11:08:15 <kilobyte> I recently went through mpr() calls so you can trivially tell apart fixed strings, you can get a nearly complete list with a single grep
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11:13:21 <tenofswords> !tell bh http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20121214.log
11:13:22 <Sequell> tenofswords: OK, I'll let bh know.
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11:14:36 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1804-g89dae3b (34)
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11:18:06 * SamB wonders if anyone has been so foolish as to try translating Emacs
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11:39:13 <Lightli> random idea
11:39:42 <Lightli> a blowgun that's guaranteed to work if used on a unaware target (i.e. one that hasn't been alerted to you yet), but doesn't work if it is alerted
11:39:50 <Lightli> tell me why this is dumb
11:41:00 <Bloax> because the ones that would be using needles the most are stabbers in the first place
11:41:28 <Bloax> and the only ones who would be able to use this are stabbers
11:42:57 <Lightli> random question
11:43:00 <Lightli> why do darts still exist
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11:44:24 <Bloax> because there is no justice in this world
11:44:50 <wheals> we can't nerf en by removing their darts
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11:50:57 <tenofswords> by the way, where in the code is previously-mentioned per-source item destruction handled?
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11:58:32 <tenofswords> found it as a grep of "expose_player_to_element", welp
12:03:24 <tenofswords> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10438&p=144304#p144304
12:03:39 <tenofswords> sigh, I really do write up too much expecting people to actually respond to sensible arguments
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12:17:07 <SamB> wheals: they can't handle tomahawks
12:18:03 <wheals> well i can think of no reasons that en have any starting thrown weapons at all
12:18:05 <wheals> so
12:18:39 <SamB> I thought it's for when they run out of MP
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12:22:42 <wheals> and they can cast magic dart no more?
12:25:07 <Lightli> they don't start with magic dart anyways
12:25:18 <Lightli> just give them tomahawks and accept the secret sp buff
12:26:18 <SamB> er, I don't know why I said "they can't handle tomahawks" with no question mark ...
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12:32:06 <wheals> everything i've said was a joke making fun of the fact that they randomly have darts
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12:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1805-ga3d096c: Validate all of godspeak.txt, not just Xom lines. 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 44+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3d096c09f3c
12:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1806-gd418f81: Teach db_lint how to check species.txt 10(23 minutes ago, 2 files, 30+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d418f8165430
12:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1807-g29eb587: Purge the desc for Sludge Elves. 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29eb58705220
12:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1808-g9e23fff: Teach db_lint how to check backgrounds.txt 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e23fff017e6
12:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1809-g8a16899: Fix job abbrevs and names getting out of sync on save bumps. 10(84 seconds ago, 2 files, 11+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a16899ae09f
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14:06:55 <|amethyst> johnny0:  the very next commit moved all that into a function
14:07:02 <|amethyst> %git ca089a7c4
14:07:02 <Cheibriados> 07|amethyst02 * 0.13-a0-3128-gca089a7: Refactor. 10(4 months ago, 3 files, 12+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca089a7c4b45
14:08:50 <Lightli> what's planned for forest changes anyways?
14:08:55 <Lightli> more new monsters?
14:09:17 <wheals> what
14:10:04 <johnny0> |amethyst: gotcha, thanks -- i think i ran into a creature size / signature weapon issue
14:10:44 <|amethyst> johnny0: oh?
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14:10:48 <johnny0> twice, in rapid succession, so it freaked me out a bit
14:11:25 <|amethyst> which monster?
14:11:29 <johnny0> a centaur warrior wouldn't swap out his longbow for a much superior crossbow, and a naga wouldn't pick up a high enchantment sabre over a +0 war axe
14:12:02 <johnny0> a merfolk picked up the sabre just fine though, so i'm guessing a bow is a centaur sig weapon and nagas won't use short blades
14:12:02 <tenofswords> the centaur clearly has no crossbows skill
14:12:13 <|amethyst> not a signature weapon exactly
14:12:15 <johnny0> maybe because they are large monsters?
14:12:20 <|amethyst> monsters won't switch launcher types
14:12:33 <|amethyst> // Don't allow monsters to switch to another type of launcher
14:12:33 <|amethyst> // as that would require them to also drop their ammunition
14:12:33 <|amethyst> // and then try to find ammunition for their new launcher.
14:12:33 <|amethyst> // However, they may switch to another launcher if they're
14:12:33 <|amethyst> // out of ammo. (jpeg)
14:12:49 <tenofswords> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc#l1447
14:13:04 <johnny0> interesting... i made the centaur warrior shoot all him ammo and he still wouldn't swap
14:13:14 <johnny0> s/him/his
14:15:35 <johnny0> I also managed to get a two-headed ogre, but it wouldn't wield anything (i'm guessing that's due to the same code as the blademasters that you mentioned a few days ago)
14:15:48 <Cheibriados> two-headed ogre (04O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 19-45 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 17, 13 | 10items, 10doors, two-weapon | Res: 06magic(32) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 282 | Sz: Large | Int: normal.

14:15:48 <|amethyst> %??two-headed ogre
14:15:59 <Cheibriados> ogre (07O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 16-38 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 119 | Sz: Large | Int: normal.

14:15:59 <|amethyst> %??ogre
14:16:17 <Cheibriados> big kobold (08K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-37 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 7 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 97 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

14:16:17 <johnny0> %??big kobold
14:16:29 <johnny0> ahh no weapons flag
14:16:41 <|amethyst> yeah, just MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT
14:16:46 <|amethyst> so they'll never pick up weapons
14:17:09 <johnny0> ahh k, so working as expected
14:17:14 <|amethyst> as for the centaur thing, you might try setting up a similar situation and tracing monster::pickup_launcher
14:17:19 <|amethyst> ??war axe
14:17:19 <Sequell> war axe[1/2]: A one-handed axe. Acc: 0, Damage: 11, Delay: 15.
14:17:22 <|amethyst> ??sabre
14:17:22 <Sequell> sabre[1/1]: Base damage:7, To-hit:+4, attack delay:12 short blade. Best common short blade in the game, though daggers are better for stabbing. Special-cased to have a minimum delay of 5. Renamed to cutlass in 0.14.
14:17:28 <|amethyst> what was the enchantment on the sabre?
14:17:29 <johnny0> sabre was +9
14:17:38 <|amethyst> and war axe was +0?
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14:18:03 <|amethyst> both brandless?
14:18:33 <johnny0> i can run down and check -- it gladly swapped for a +2/+0 long sword of protection
14:18:37 <johnny0> (and then wouldn't swap the long sword for the sabre either... the sabre is +9 vorpal
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14:19:41 <|amethyst> hm, not sure about that then
14:19:51 <|amethyst> ??long sword
14:19:51 <Sequell> long sword[1/1]: One-handed long blade (Dam: 10, Acc: +1, Delay: 14)
14:20:17 <|amethyst> yeah, +9 sabre should definitely be preferred over a +0 long sword
14:20:25 <|amethyst> (vorpal just adds +1 to the value)
14:20:39 <|amethyst> (as does protection)
14:21:15 <johnny0> going to be a little bit until i can get the exact value of the war axe... mennas gibbed my merc
14:21:24 <johnny0> on the plus side i might be able to test again with another naga
14:21:59 <|amethyst> Did you see the merc get killed?
14:22:06 <|amethyst> if so, it's probably in the stash tracker
14:22:23 <|amethyst> s/'s probably/ might be/
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14:23:09 <johnny0> Mennas hits Zoyn with an eudemon blade of holy wrath! x2_Zoyn dies!
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14:24:02 <johnny0> so would backing up the save be worth it just to look at the item properties in the stash?
14:24:23 <|amethyst> oh
14:24:26 <johnny0> i have a couple more decks i can draw from to try and get another naga though (this is an online game, so i can't really test in wizmode)
14:24:27 <|amethyst> I think it is a size issue
14:24:41 <|amethyst> cutlass has fit_size of SIZE_LITTLE
14:25:51 <johnny0> ahh okay, it makes sense with how monster nagas cannot use bucklers and such
14:26:10 <|amethyst> so in _fit_weapon_wieldable_size,  fit = SIZE_LITTLE - SIZE_LARGE = -3, so it returns -1
14:26:18 <|amethyst> yeah, that's it
14:26:49 <|amethyst> hm
14:26:57 <johnny0> Ahh great, good to know -- I guess I'll add a learndb entry about it in case others run into the same problem
14:27:01 <johnny0> thanks a bunch for the info!
14:27:08 <|amethyst> so does this prevent nagas from getting clubs?
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14:27:29 <|amethyst> and whips
14:28:59 <|amethyst> naga warriors rather
14:29:28 <|amethyst> ah, no, it doesn't prevent them from starting with such weapons
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14:30:19 <|amethyst> sounds buggy
14:30:49 <tenofswords> (why do naga warriors and greater nagas even get clubs)
14:30:57 <|amethyst> and kind of inconsistent, since large players can wield the tiniest of weapons
14:31:02 <|amethyst> tenofswords:  because gnolls
14:31:18 <tenofswords> why are they stuck with the same set as
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14:31:39 <|amethyst> tenofswords:  plain nagas seem to have a much nicer weapon set than warriors
14:32:18 <|amethyst> (they have the same list as orc warriors, draconians, tengu)
14:32:27 <tenofswords> while that is true there is something noticeable about half the list of those guys being polearms
14:33:18 <|amethyst> yeah, but warriros can't get glaives or tridents
14:33:21 <tenofswords> clearly need to make _another_ group thing
14:33:25 <|amethyst> s/ros/ors/
14:33:51 <tenofswords> ...
14:35:58 <tenofswords> I like how MONS_DWARF appears in mon-gear even when it's supposed to not really exist
14:38:37 <Bloax> Goodness knows if any vaults assume they do this.
14:39:29 <|amethyst> als, why do gnoll sergeants never get halberds?
14:39:47 <|amethyst> s/als/also/
14:39:52 <tenofswords> because shields
14:40:19 <|amethyst> aha
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16:56:50 <galehar> kilobyte: I'm well aware that gettext doesn't have any grammar support and that we need to build it.
16:57:10 <galehar> kilobyte: so, we put call to grammar functions in our strings, and call a function to parse it and handle the grammar
16:57:30 <galehar> kilobyte: now, what do we do with those strings? How do we extract them, make them avalaible to translators and get the translations?
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16:58:03 <galehar> kilobyte: what's wrong with using gettext for that? What alternative do you suggest?
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17:10:17 <johnstein> ??lamia
17:10:17 <Sequell> lamia[1/4]: The naga queen! Lives in mid-to-late Snake. Casts IOOD, parrow, mesmerise, haste, and Teleport Self.
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17:12:43 <johnstein> what was the reason to remove Lamia?
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17:19:12 <galehar> the commit message doesn't say :/
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17:22:25 <G-Flex> %git :/lamia
17:22:27 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit :/lamia (git returned 128)
17:22:32 <G-Flex> %git :/Lamia
17:22:36 <Cheibriados> 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-1797-gfca4177: Remove Lamia. 10(20 hours ago, 14 files, 4+ 103-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fca41778bc9a
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17:22:57 <G-Flex> possibly because she was kind of absurdly dangerous
17:22:58 <G-Flex> but I don't know
17:23:10 <G-Flex> it would probably be a good idea to give at least some sort of reason with the commit, no?
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17:29:35 <johnstein> one of my favorite battles was against her
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17:33:06 <johnstein> !g johnstein uniq=lamia -tv
17:33:16 <wheals> lm
17:33:24 <johnstein> oops
17:33:39 <johnstein> !lm johnstein uniq=lamia -tv
17:33:40 <Sequell> 2. johnstein, XL15 DEWz, T:43563 (milestone) requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org).
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17:39:00 <johnstein> yea G-Flex, an explanation would be useful. I'm still getting up to speed on how dev decisions are made and implemented.
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17:45:03 <galehar> yet another proposal for weapon delay formula: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=144352#p144352
17:45:05 <MarvinPA> it's been talked about in here for months now so i guess it's easy to forget to mention it in the commit itself, mainly the fact that she is a greater naga except with all the numbers made ridiculously huge and that's not very interesting
17:45:12 * galehar sleeps
17:46:49 <MarvinPA> especially since there are already plenty of other late uniques whose main trick is big conjuration damage
17:46:59 <johnstein> ok. Ty MarvinPA. I'm probably not experienced enough of a player yet to immediately understand that about her. or more likely, I got lucky with the few times I ran into her
17:47:11 <Keskitalo> mesmerize+iood sounds fun on paper though, but I've never seen her in-game
17:47:23 <wheals> she isn't late anymore though
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18:22:23 <wheals> could "It makes noises." for ARTP_NOISES in describe.cc be changed to "It makes noises when attacking with it."?
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18:27:54 <MarvinPA> it could
18:28:28 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1810-g53ace98: Reword some ARTP_ descriptions (wheals) 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53ace98f7dec
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18:29:22 <MarvinPA> (good catch, thanks)
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18:30:48 <Lightli> how come lamia was removed
18:30:50 <wheals> np
18:31:04 <wheals> +MarvinPA> it's been talked about in here for months now so i guess it's easy to forget to mention it in the commit itself, mainly the fact that she is a greater naga except with all the numbers made ridiculously huge and that's not very interesting
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18:39:04 <Lightli> oh
18:39:11 <Lightli> that makes sense
18:41:58 <Zannick> uniques not unique enough tend to get axed
18:42:25 <Zannick> (i need to work on ystrom one of these days...)
18:42:37 <Lightli> ystrom?
18:43:05 <Zannick> my proposal for a unique mfdk with an enslaved unique pet
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18:43:14 <Zannick> who tries to enslave you
18:45:16 <Lightli> how would that even translate in game terms
18:45:38 <johnstein> what is it that keeps Terrence around?
18:46:42 <wheals> there aren't any early monsters with heavy armour and a fairly good weapon
18:47:11 <johnstein> ok. I've never thought critically on what makes a ood unique
18:47:16 <johnstein> good
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19:05:52 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1811-gdc2d5af: Remove a Xom trap vault 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 135-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc2d5afaf691
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19:13:07 <wheals> ok i added a fix to my hat patch for brands
19:13:20 <wheals> just in case you wanted to know
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19:23:57 <Lightli> hat patch?
19:24:03 <Lightli> does it add more hat egos?
19:24:13 <wheals> !bug 7944
19:24:13 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7944
19:24:26 <Lightli> oh
19:24:49 <Lightli> fr: let hats get the dex ego
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21:28:00 <araganzar> Hey amethyst, I'm interested in doing some quality of life / performance improvements to webtiles and have a question about the webtiles servers if you have a second.
21:29:30 <araganzar> interested in what I need to get from a host in order to compile and run - maybe with git but it's not crucial
21:29:47 <johnstein> you just want to set up a webtiles server?
21:29:56 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1811-gdc2d5af (34)
21:29:58 <araganzar> no I want to have a dev one that I can push changes to
21:30:50 <araganzar> i thought I might also see about buying space on the new server in georgia since I live in Atlanta
21:30:58 <araganzar> since that will already have git, etc
21:32:14 <johnstein> ramnode?
21:32:42 <araganzar> is that the new server?  i just heard there was a new one in GA
21:32:45 <johnstein> oh
21:32:53 <johnstein> sorry thought you meant vps
21:32:57 <johnstein> yua, the one in GA is mine
21:32:59 <johnstein> ??cbro
21:32:59 <Sequell> cbro[1/1]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net.  Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org:8080
21:33:05 <araganzar> aha
21:33:07 <johnstein> it's hosted on RamNode
21:33:10 <johnstein> but I'm in seattle
21:33:27 <araganzar> i want to set up the same thing
21:33:28 <johnstein> they set up a farm out here like 2 weeks after I bought mine
21:33:30 <johnstein> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=setting_up_dgamelaunch_and_webtiles
21:33:41 <johnstein> TZer0 set this up for CLAN
21:33:49 <araganzar> how much did it cost you
21:34:00 <araganzar> what I am gonna do is do a compact display so you can chat and see the map and monster list
21:34:02 <johnstein> mine is $20 a month, but it's running more than crawl
21:34:11 <araganzar> only modifying text really to start with
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21:34:36 <johnstein> there's coupons out there too, so I'd poke around to see what the current ones are
21:34:39 <araganzar> what are the key things you need?  gammafunk used bluehost and centos, but he said he could not compile on the server
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21:34:45 <johnstein> but following that wiki will get you up and running
21:34:53 <johnstein> I'm running ubuntu 12.04
21:34:59 <johnstein> and everything runs fine
21:35:23 <johnstein> I made a lot of updates to the wiki where I hit snags since the wiki was written from a Debian point of view
21:35:25 <araganzar> so i need basically a static ip and a dedicated server where I can runroot
21:35:41 <johnstein> yea, I think that would get you going
21:35:52 <johnstein> I'm barely qualified to run my VPS
21:35:55 <johnstein> :P
21:36:05 <johnstein> but if you have root access, you should be able to get it up and running
21:36:16 <johnstein> do you have much linux experience?
21:36:20 <araganzar> ages ago
21:36:37 <johnstein> I barely have any. I use AIX a lot at work, but as a user, not an admin
21:36:47 <johnstein> so I'm comfortable with the env, but not so much with admining
21:36:49 <araganzar> if you were in Ga i was gonna see about getting you to just open up an 8081 port or something for a dev server
21:36:56 <araganzar> the guide looks good though
21:37:01 <araganzar> if I can find cheap hosting I'll do it
21:37:17 <araganzar> i know enough unix to move shit and make directories and compile stuff
21:38:08 <johnstein> yea, probably better for you to snag your own. I don't mind helping, but I'm going to have my hands full :P (along with a 1 week old server, I have a 2 week old son :P)
21:38:13 <araganzar> don't think I would need sizell
21:38:20 <araganzar> yeah I'll get it working as a proof of concept
21:38:38 <araganzar> and if I produce something workable and am gonna keep going on it I'll probably beg a spot on someone's box
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21:38:49 <araganzar> the guide is very useful, it's basically what i needed
21:38:56 <johnstein> yea, I have a version of Rotatell running in my gaming server crawl IRC room announcing ALL the milestones
21:39:05 <johnstein> and then a boring version here and in ##crawl ;p
21:39:23 <johnstein> yea, I was just looking for a guide on setting up crawl for basic dev
21:39:32 <araganzar> in what way
21:39:36 <araganzar> i just did that
21:39:49 <johnstein> and stumbled on that article and switched plans to set up a server for my gaming community crawl peeps
21:39:56 <araganzar> heh
21:40:18 <araganzar> the only real hard part about setting up crawl for dev for me was getting all the git stuff running
21:40:22 <johnstein> and after banging my head on it for several days and bugging |amethyst, TZer0, and everyone in here, got it working and felt good enough to make it public
21:40:44 <johnstein> yea. I know enough git to do mundane things
21:40:46 <araganzar> that's cool, it will be a short ping for me there
21:40:57 <araganzar> i didn't really know git at all but I've worked with a lot of source code management stuff
21:40:59 <johnstein> but my git voodoo can't do complex stuff yet
21:41:08 <araganzar> well the guide on here give you the exact commands
21:41:18 <araganzar> my mistake was using my existing git
21:41:42 <araganzar> i finally just installed fresh and it was really easy
21:42:30 <johnstein> yea. and I even dumbified it down even more
21:42:42 <johnstein> there's a few things I added that most people probably already know
21:42:58 <araganzar> well that is the kind of stuff i need to know :)
21:43:04 <johnstein> cool!
21:43:07 <araganzar> I used the /docs/develop/git/quickstart.txt guide and it was really good for git
21:43:36 <johnstein> and like |amethyst said to me, if you run into issues or something wrong, be sure to add it to the wiki
21:43:51 <araganzar> yeah I might add a note as to what you need to get in a host
21:43:55 <Grunt> araganzar is just a git at heart <_<
21:44:13 <araganzar> here in georgia git means to leave the premises
21:44:35 <araganzar> or something you say to a horse
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22:02:42 <Cheibriados> Orbsprint <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7960> by KennySheep
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23:00:35 <Henzell> deopthoht (L22 HOFi) ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 680: ASSERT failed: shop->type of 4294967295 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SHOPS (13) (Depths:1)
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23:23:22 <johnstein> !learn add cbro Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein.
23:23:23 <Sequell> cbro[2/2]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein.
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23:28:54 <johnstein> !learn add cbro "Be Excellent to each other. If you can't be excellent, Be Civil.  If you can't be civil, Be Offline" --herrdoktor (Be Rotato!)
23:28:54 <Sequell> cbro[3/3]: "Be Excellent to each other. If you can't be excellent, Be Civil.  If you can't be civil, Be Offline" --herrdoktor (Be Rotato!)
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23:32:34 <Grunt> johnstein: you're breaking the ____ell pattern, btw; it should be four letters suffixed with "ell" :b
23:32:59 <johnstein> aw. thought the requirement was just ending in 'ell'
23:33:18 <|amethyst> it's fine
23:33:19 <johnstein> maybe I'm just a dirty trendy trendsetter?
23:33:21 <johnstein> :P
23:33:31 <|amethyst> this lets us use "Edsell" for a really janky server
23:33:37 <johnstein> hah
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23:33:53 <SamB> ??bots
23:33:53 <Sequell> bots[1/2]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? and others)
23:34:08 <|amethyst> so I guess we should announce CBRO huh?
23:34:10 <johnstein> ^players
23:34:11 <Rotatell> porpoise (L4 @ D:3, T:2083), johnstein (L2 @ D:1, T:640)
23:34:13 <|amethyst> probably also CKR
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23:34:18 <|amethyst> or whatever it's called
23:34:19 <johnstein> I suppose. it's a bit scary
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23:34:47 <|amethyst> ??ckr
23:34:47 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled ckr in my learndb. Did you mean: ck, cr.
23:34:48 <johnstein> but the server hasn't caught fire yet
23:34:49 <SamB> ??cbro
23:34:49 <Sequell> cbro[1/3]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net.  Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org:8080
23:34:49 <|amethyst> ??kr
23:34:49 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled kr in my learndb. Did you mean: ar, cr, dr, er, fr, gr, jr, ke, mr, pr, tr, wr.
23:34:55 <johnstein> !hs * cbro
23:34:56 <Sequell> 22. ZombieSheep the Impaler (L15 MfSu), worshipper of Sif Muna, shot by a centaur warrior (arrow of frost) on D:15 on 2014-01-07 22:39:58, with 75976 points after 44448 turns and 4:39:40.
23:35:00 <|amethyst> !hs * ckr
23:35:01 <Sequell> 8925. Talesweaver the Slayer (L27 GrFi), worshipper of The Shining One, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-12-13 03:52:39, with 28559647 points after 51626 turns and 15:45:26.
23:35:08 <Grunt> ...why doesn't ckr have a bot yet :(
23:35:25 <Grunt> |amethyst: if ever I start my own server the bot will be Lemuell.
23:35:26 <|amethyst> I cannot for the life of me remember the IRC nick of the maintainer
23:35:27 * Grunt flees.
23:35:27 <SamB> johnstein: you seem to have missed my subtle hints to add your bot to the list ...
23:35:28 <|amethyst> that's not why
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23:35:40 <|amethyst> but that's why I don't know the answer
23:35:52 <|amethyst> guess it's time to grep my logs
23:35:53 <johnstein> working on it! passed out babby in my left arm. typing R hard
23:36:26 <|amethyst> congrats btw
23:36:38 <johnstein> !learn edit bots 1 Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #), Rotatell (CBRO, ^); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? and others)
23:36:39 <Sequell> Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/<search>/<repl>/
23:36:42 <johnstein> oops
23:36:51 <johnstein> !learn edit bots[1] Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #), Rotatell (CBRO, ^); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? and others)
23:36:51 <Sequell> Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/<search>/<repl>/
23:36:54 <johnstein> oops
23:37:00 * johnstein isn't reading
23:37:15 <|amethyst> !seen sd1989
23:37:15 <Sequell> I last saw sd1989 at Tue Nov 19 09:48:57 2013 UTC (7w 19h 48m 18s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: Leaving'.
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23:37:39 <|amethyst> Grunt:  oh, he hasn't been around since like a week after Sequell was set up for it
23:37:53 <Grunt> :(
23:37:59 <|amethyst> does anyone have his email address?
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23:38:25 <SamB> webmaster@ ???
23:38:34 <johnstein> !learn edit bots[1] s/Ruffell (RHF, #); others/Ruffell (RHF, #), Rotatell (CBRO, ^); others/
23:38:35 <Sequell> No change: regex `Ruffell (RHF, #); others` does not match `Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? and others)`
23:38:35 <|amethyst> kr.dobrazupa.org
23:39:00 <|amethyst> which doesn't help :)
23:39:01 <johnstein> wow, I'm batting 0.000 here
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23:39:47 <|amethyst> johnstein:  () are special and have to be backslashed
23:39:49 <johnstein> do I need to escape the special characters?
23:39:51 <|amethyst> johnstein:  on the left hand side
23:40:00 <johnstein> ok. will do.
23:40:24 <johnstein> !learn edit bots[1] s/Ruffell \(RHF, #\); others/Ruffell \(RHF, #\), Rotatell \(CBRO, ^\); others/
23:40:25 <Sequell> bots[1/2]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #), Rotatell (CBRO, ^); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? and others)
23:40:33 <|amethyst> ??ckr
23:40:33 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled ckr in my learndb. Did you mean: ck, cr.
23:40:37 <johnstein> ty |amethyst
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23:40:41 <johnstein> and SamB
23:40:46 <|amethyst> right
23:40:50 <|amethyst> np
23:41:24 <|amethyst> !learn edit servers s/({cszo})/\1, {cbro}/
23:41:25 <Sequell> servers[1/1]: See {cao}, 1, {cbro} (US) or {cdo}, {clan}, {rhf} (EU). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto
23:41:30 <|amethyst> oh
23:41:45 <|amethyst> !learn edit servers s/1/{cszo}/
23:41:45 <Sequell> servers[1/1]: See {cao}, {cszo}, {cbro} (US) or {cdo}, {clan}, {rhf} (EU). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto
23:42:11 <johnstein> lotta servers
23:43:04 <Grunt> <3
23:43:07 <|amethyst> oh
23:43:23 <|amethyst> Sequell uses RE2
23:43:33 <|amethyst> which is based on DFAs
23:43:36 <|amethyst> so I guess no capture
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23:50:53 <|amethyst> that reminds me, at one point I saw a talk/read a paper proving some formal properties of Unix-style EREs with backreferences
23:51:33 <|amethyst> for one, they proved that the matching problem (does this ERE match this string?) is NP-complete even over a unary alphabet
23:51:51 <|amethyst> also that emptiness of the intersection of two EREs is undeciable
23:52:21 <|amethyst> s/cia/cida/
23:53:03 <johnstein> !learn edit cbro[2] s/johnstein/johnstein (johnstein@berotato.org)/
23:53:03 <Sequell> cbro[2/3]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein (johnstein@berotato.org).
23:54:26 <SamB> !learn edit cbro[2] s/\(/</
23:54:26 <Sequell> cbro[2/3]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein <johnstein@berotato.org).
23:54:35 <SamB> !learn edit cbro[2] s/\)/>/
23:54:35 <Sequell> cbro[2/3]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein <johnstein@berotato.org>.
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