00:01:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:01:26 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1266-g856eec9 (34) 00:05:49 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-1266-g856eec9 (34) 00:07:16 -!- eb has quit [] 00:07:26 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:45 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:23:07 -!- aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1267-g2d023e6: Add MSG_OK when canceling search prompt 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d023e691c57 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1268-g4179fa4: Special handling for repeat cmd prompt in WebTiles 10(87 minutes ago, 5 files, 37+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4179fa437358 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1269-ga637296: Allow using ? for stash searches in WebTiles 10(80 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a637296d9d8e 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1270-gdf150e2: Special handling for WebTiles travel depth prompt 10(53 minutes ago, 4 files, 20+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=df150e23386a 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1271-g270c2e5: Hide WebTiles get_line dialog when it's sent 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=270c2e5ec402 00:24:45 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1272-g1734888: Handle line entry box losing focus in WebTiles 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=173488860ee7 00:31:28 -!- RedFeather has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:58 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1273-g43865cb: Don't randomly generate zombies/skeletons in Vaults 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43865cb57e6b 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1274-gd83fb5e: Give one manual instead of two as loot in wizlab_wucad 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d83fb5e79956 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1275-g900ae75: Replace thrashing horror frenzy with might 10(27 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=900ae755d162 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1276-g5517a7c: Add a missing habitat type to wizmode monster debug 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5517a7c3cfad 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1277-g26b5dca: Don't let Dryads walk through trees 10(60 minutes ago, 16 files, 13+ 272-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26b5dca61ba0 00:41:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1278-g492f686: Remove an unnecessary treeform message 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=492f6862c29f 00:49:16 -!- fusentrap has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:31 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:53 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:26:23 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:21 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:31 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:32:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:04 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:36:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:48:17 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:42 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 01:49:14 -!- fusentrap has left ##crawl-dev 02:03:03 -!- Cedor has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:32 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:14:10 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:16:36 -!- Fortescue has quit [] 02:17:39 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 02:25:29 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:17 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:32:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:32:26 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:53 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 02:45:16 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 02:46:14 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:00 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:38 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:05 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:42 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:16 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: sheesh, start playing saints row 4 and suddenly it's 4 in the morning] 03:09:09 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:11:41 -!- CedorDark has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:48 -!- Cedor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:05 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:17 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:14:40 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:24 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:06 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:45 -!- Kermitain has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:33 !tell galehar I'm afraid that delayed_more breaks any input that happens at load time: debug info, actions resumed from HUP, etc. So we should probably revert and draw the screen earlier, I guess. 03:48:33 kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know. 03:52:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:06:03 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:11 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:12:38 -!- MackTheKnife has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:24:21 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:29:06 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:22 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:27 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:20 -!- fusentrap has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:03:06 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:07 -!- MP2E has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:35 -!- minotaurbeserker has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:16 -!- shock_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:12 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 05:21:37 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:56 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:46:50 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:33 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:47:45 -!- rast- is now known as rast 06:03:39 -!- Rajih has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10:22 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:35 -!- eith|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:15:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:23:09 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:29:55 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:42:24 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Client Quit] 06:42:55 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:53 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 06:52:02 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:33 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:54:28 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:57:09 -!- Mateji has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:57 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:54 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:09:24 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:36 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:41 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:29:10 -!- eith is now known as eith_ 07:29:17 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 07:31:11 <|amethyst> kilobyte: does anything other than run_uncancels do input before the first call to _input? 07:31:26 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:40 -!- Duke- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:32:11 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I guess level_change() as well 07:33:28 -!- yalue has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:55 <|amethyst> kilobyte: because we call _prep_input() (which calls pop_delayed_more) before those things in _launch_game 07:41:57 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:42:14 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:35 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:51 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or even replace unwind_bool levelgen with something more complicated that calls pop_delayed_more() at the end 07:46:23 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:41 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 07:51:04 -!- CedorDark is now known as Cedor 07:52:30 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 07:57:43 kilobyte: I'm not sure what are inputs at load time. Shouldn't they be delayed too anyway? Or else, you'll have the same problem of asking input with a half drawn screen 07:58:34 I'm not sure you can draw earlier. Since the level hasn't finished loading, it's likely to be buggily drawn 07:59:41 maybe it would be better to generalize my fix to anything else which tries to interact with the player when the level is loading 08:01:09 check crawl_state.loading_level, if it's true, stash (delay) the action. 08:01:19 <|amethyst> galehar: I haven't had a chance to test, but you could try doing a HUP during (say) stack five and seeing if the input comes at the right time 08:01:33 <|amethyst> galehar: the right time on subsequent load, I mean 08:01:50 <|amethyst> galehar: I *think* delayed actions should be fine because they come after _prep_input 08:02:31 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:02:38 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 08:03:12 sure. My point is that if the input comes to early, it's better to delay it rather than trying to draw the screen during a level load 08:03:42 by delay, I mean what I did with delayed_more, not a multiturn action 08:03:42 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:00 <|amethyst> galehar: that's a little more complicated to do, since you can't do it at the level input() but also have to delay whatever needed the input value 08:05:26 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:26 <|amethyst> so really those parts should be moved to after the level load 08:05:46 <|amethyst> s/level input/level of input/ 08:05:59 -!- aardvark has quit [Client Quit] 08:06:02 <|amethyst> s/input/_input/ 08:06:03 galehar: http://sprunge.us/WSUL 08:06:44 especially infinite loops during debugging make that fix attempt not viable, as there _won't_ be "after loading" 08:07:11 this is how I found about the issue, finding out was not fun 08:07:45 it removes debug messages? weird 08:08:06 there's just black message window with nothing in it 08:08:08 it's supposed to only prevent more prompt 08:08:31 "just" preventing more prompt doesn't work, either -- as there might be multiple mores 08:08:52 you might have --more--, then a question, then another --more-- 08:09:04 I guess there should be a stack to push delayed stuff in it. My implementation is rough and could be improved 08:09:54 you can't stack stuff as there's no guarantee it will ever get around to unwinding it, at least in debug scenarios 08:10:10 forcing a redraw before stuff has finished loading is very likely to crash 08:10:51 then a blank game screen would be ok 08:10:53 it used to crash sometimes when getting an announce portal 08:11:21 it's not ok, it's ugly 08:11:24 because at least during level gen there indeed is nothing to show 08:11:31 well, ugly but works 08:11:50 not showing portal vault messages on the other hand is a real functionality problem 08:11:53 the point of the more prompt is to show something to the player 08:12:05 yes, so it can't be inhibited 08:12:40 why couldn't we stack the more prompts and then unstack when the level has finished loading? 08:12:53 just recording that there's a pending more means the text before the more will be at least scrolled off if not outright lost 08:13:02 no, the text needs to be displayed somehow 08:13:17 perhaps just lua could be postponed, but not the rest 08:13:53 maybe that could work 08:18:00 I understand that there are issues, but do we really have to revert before trying to fix? 08:18:23 It doesn't seem to be critical 08:18:59 not being able to debug map generation is what I would call critical, then there's a number of other issues 08:19:18 like uncancels, multiple mores or these portal vaults 08:19:43 greatly extending that fix would fix those but not debugging 08:19:53 so I'm afraid a whole new approach is needed :( 08:20:52 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:04 ok fine 08:21:25 oh, fixing the tutorial issue turned out to be trivial 08:21:43 hey cool :) 08:21:45 just adding missing redraw bits fixed everything but player's title 08:21:52 need to hunt that one down 08:22:08 for title, you just have to init redraw_title to true 08:22:09 -!- Ruffell has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:22:13 that's console, not sure if that's enough for tiles 08:22:56 oh cool, thanks! 08:23:13 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:17 dis:[~/crawl/crawl-ref/source](master)$ git push gs master 08:24:18 /usr/bin/gitorious: line 5: /srv/gitorious/app/current/bin/gitorious: No such file or directory 08:24:20 /usr/bin/gitorious: line 5: exec: /srv/gitorious/app/current/bin/gitorious: cannot execute: No such file or directory 08:24:23 fatal: Could not read from remote repository. 08:24:53 -!- Ruffell has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:38 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:28:43 hrm, in local tiles, only the player is drawn during the --more-- prompt 08:29:41 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:37:56 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:39:00 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:30 kilobyte: 0.13.1 for android uploaded 08:45:06 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:13 elliptic: could you explain why you're opposed to the removal of item destruction? (I am too, it's just that there's constant whining about it on the tavern, I'd like to put some explanations) 08:50:01 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:08 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:55 pressure? 09:01:59 local constraint? 09:09:29 galehar: there are actually several things I don't like about item destruction, but I do think it serves an important purpose in current crawl: providing a reason other than weight not to carry all of your consumables 09:10:23 galehar: without item destruction, you'd end up always trying to carry all your possibly useful consumables (all 15 potions of heal wounds, etc), which means that the weight limit would be exceptionally annoying for most characters 09:11:09 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:40 galehar: there are probably other changes that we could make to help with this (making potions weigh less, generating fewer items, removing the weight limit, etc), but without such measures I do think that removing item destruction wouldn't turn out well 09:12:34 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:38 -!- _159 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:16:15 galehar: I'm afraid the Android build crashes at startup 09:16:20 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:19:28 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:20:46 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:21:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:25:26 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:29 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:28:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:29 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1279-g6cff2d6: Simplify a very convoluted way of checking c.abs(). 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6cff2d6a8059 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1280-gada52c5: Drop an unused variable. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ada52c503658 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1281-ga248abc: Use a scalar range for find_ray() and friends instead of a circle_def object. 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 12+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a248abcac039 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1282-g6378b71: Show monster habitats in a ways that allows compile checks. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6378b71d3d03 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1283-ga7eb7c7: Drop pointless parentheses. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7eb7c73565d 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1284-g8c39b8e: Revert "Delay more prompt until level has finished loading." 10(3 hours ago, 8 files, 10+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c39b8ecec30 09:32:42 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1285-gc1ddd44: Draw the HUD upon game start / level load. 10(70 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c1ddd44d0403 09:52:45 -!- Stupendous has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:50 -!- Duke- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what if we prevented drawing to anywhere but the message area while the level is loading? 09:57:55 <|amethyst> I guess that might be more complicated than I am imagining 10:00:46 <|amethyst> the problem is more general than loading levels; more generally, I guess we'd want a "game state is inconsistent" flag 10:04:40 elliptic: so you'd think it would be ok that player carry as many consumables as they can? 10:04:53 -!- johlstei_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:51 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:01 elliptic: I guess many itemdest whiners would rather stash some consumables rather than having to backtrack then drop whenever they see monsters with itemdest attacks 10:06:39 you already have to stash stuff; item destruction means that you don't have what you need with you no matter how well you manage your inventory 10:07:45 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:55 if this is considered a feature then just remove consumables and be done with it 10:14:40 otherwise it's just getting toward the feature mimic end of "let's tease and piss off the player for no good reason" 10:15:42 geekosaur: you're oversimplifying the issue 10:15:45 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:16:51 I haven't seen a whole lot that isn't oversimplification of the issue 10:17:13 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:17:30 nobody wants to think about it, just push their oversimplification. so I'm pushing mine, deliberately in a somewhat obnoxious way 10:17:42 because, frankly, most of the discussion so far has involved obnoxiousness 10:17:54 mostly aimed at the player 10:18:40 geekosaur: I'm not interested in this kind of discussion 10:19:02 no, I imagine noe 10:19:04 *not 10:19:14 that also has characterized the item destruction thing pretty well 10:19:20 kilobyte: are you upgrading crawl on android? On a fresh install, it works fine 10:20:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:26 galehar: I don't think that letting players carry all their consumables is an issue really, yes... my concerns about removing item destruction are (1) inventory management becomes always awful because of the weight limitation and (2) should probably decrease the number of consumables generated to compensate 10:24:29 -!- keszocze has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:25:08 well, I've been thinking that a general reduction in loot would be a good thing anyway 10:25:20 (to be clear, I already hate the weight limit on characters that run up against it... not because it means I can't carry as much, but because it means that every single item I find requires inventory management) 10:25:21 we could just generate less items per level 10:25:42 (and removing item destruction would mean I would run up against the weight limit in every game that doesn't have huge strength) 10:25:56 well, the inventory management induced by item destruction is much worse than weight limit, isn't it? 10:26:03 IMO no 10:26:36 as I said, when you are at 99% capacity you have to handle inventory every single time you find an item you might want while exploring 10:27:01 then stay at 90 or 85% 10:27:04 you don't have to think about item destruction nearly so often 10:27:09 uh, how do you do that? 10:27:16 <|amethyst> galehar: staying at 90% or 85% requires the same thing 10:27:23 carry less, stash more often 10:28:00 well, whenenver you hit the limit, stash a lot to go back to 80% or whatever 10:28:01 <|amethyst> galehar: right, elliptic is saying that removing item destruction changes "carry less" from something that is a good idea anyway, to something that you do purely to avoid interface inconvenience 10:28:39 <|amethyst> (I guess not purely since it takes turns to drop and pickup, but usually that's not in combat so it doesn't matter) 10:28:39 I see 10:29:39 so carry very few consumables is a good strategy with itemdest, but without it becomes convenient but suboptimal 10:29:49 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:57 <|amethyst> yeah 10:31:11 kilobyte: when upgrading, it's recommended to remove Android/data/org.develz.crawl/files/libsdl-DownloadFinished-0.flag 10:31:30 it makes it regenerate the database files 10:32:33 I don't find inventory management nearly as tiring as looking at my consumables turn to dust. 10:33:05 Because that centaur just HAD to spawn with ice arrows or an ice bow. 10:33:18 Because that fire drake just HAD to spam its breath at me all the time. 10:33:53 Because that orc wizard just couldn't help but have an icy diarrhea just at that moment. 10:34:16 Because that fire dragon just can't hold its big mouth shut. 10:34:26 even if i'm rf+++ and should be glad it can't 10:34:46 -!- _dd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:25 Bloax: please don't rant here. We have the tavern for that. 10:36:49 you have decide to discard the item destruction reforme? 10:36:54 decided* 10:39:18 and to shut down discussion by any convenient means 10:39:18 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:34 apparently 10:39:46 <|amethyst> please go troll somewhere else 10:39:47 well.. the shut down is a wise decision 10:39:56 <|amethyst> unless you think elliptic and galehar and I haven't been discussing it 10:39:58 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:25 |amethyst, was a pure pure question 10:40:36 <|amethyst> Cedor: you're not the one who's trolling :/ 10:40:45 because your concern tends to go on a pure... interface problem 10:40:48 (I know) 10:41:11 and I wondered if this should be considered as an autopick rework 10:41:22 <|amethyst> elliptic pointed out a problem with removing item destruction (weight limit becomes more annoying), offered a few potential fixes, and we've been talking about implications of that 10:42:16 <|amethyst> Cedor: the problem with that is that it can't easily predict what the player *wants* to be carrying 10:42:29 true 10:42:33 <|amethyst> and if it drops "the wrong thing" even 10% of the time, people won't use it 10:42:54 <|amethyst> or will be very very annoyed if they're forced to 10:42:56 just design an place for this 10:43:37 '\' is a bit anoyying panel (lots of things to handle), but some nuber limits could be add 10:44:17 <|amethyst> I think very few people would actually set those, because it would be such a pain to do so 10:44:34 yep I know 10:44:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:06 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:50 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:51 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:31 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:40 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51:42 <|amethyst> A guess as I see it, inventory management *should* be a sub-game you play in crawl. But if you have to play it every time you encounter a new item, that's a pain. 10:51:59 The difference between item destruction and inventory management is that the latter is a consequence of items spawning and having a limit on how much you can carry. 10:52:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 10:52:12 While the former is "wear conservation or enjoy the red messages you prick." 10:52:52 <|amethyst> Item destruction, as elliptic points out, alleviates part of that by giving you other reasons to not be at the weight limit 10:52:53 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:53:07 <|amethyst> However, it doesn't really do anything about the slots limit 10:53:31 But what's worse, inventory management or everything pointed out in https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10040 ? 10:54:24 inventory management 10:55:00 <|amethyst> It's not a matter of which is more important 10:55:21 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:28 <|amethyst> removing item destruction would have repercussions elsewhere in the game, and we need to understand those before we make such a huge change 10:55:36 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:36 (pardon the shitty network connection) 10:55:42 and item destruction teach something to people 10:55:56 consomables are designe to be used 10:56:01 not to be kept 10:56:15 <|amethyst> Cedor: but it really teaches "consumables are to be stashed" 10:56:33 probably because there is too much of it 10:56:35 -!- HenryClay has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:56:52 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:57:01 but I fear item spawn rate is a too complex problem 10:57:18 (because of the size of the game, and the number different items) 10:57:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:55 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:04 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:29 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:01:08 Cedor: I think that the lesson of item destruction (use, not hoard) is a good point 11:01:22 I think so 11:01:23 but i don't think spawn rate is too complex a problem 11:01:43 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:46 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:52 i.e., I think there will be small changes in balance but within acceptable limits 11:02:07 just dimension the problem 11:02:13 ah I see 11:02:34 yes the implications of any change aren't going to be easy to predict 11:02:57 ah sorry, forgot to say i'm computer science searcher 11:03:01 :p 11:03:06 yep 11:03:21 I think we could go to a local optimum 11:03:33 (by pimping the numbers) 11:03:51 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:55 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:57 but such a local optimum will be awfull for some combos 11:04:07 or players 11:04:08 can you explain? 11:04:09 <|amethyst> Cedor: optimising requires having an objective function :) 11:04:22 yes 11:04:24 <|amethyst> Cedor: and "fun" is kind of hard to measure :) 11:04:32 yes again 11:04:36 optimizing fun is a hard problem :) 11:04:50 but a fun problem :p 11:05:11 item destruction is the nemesis of fun 11:05:22 and it's probably the most interresting part of crawl 11:05:25 <|amethyst> we could have crawl dispense precisely controlled amounts of dopamine at particular times 11:05:25 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:28 your fun Bloax 11:05:30 not mine 11:05:50 (and this is the main problem in fact) 11:05:51 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:29 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:29 |amethyst: but sometimes crawl makes me suffer so...and yet in retrospect I call those moments "fun" 11:06:40 so maybe it's not just dopamine! 11:07:04 you try submission a day or another :p 11:07:35 I am going to interpret that as "submitting code" and leave it :D 11:07:46 nice move :p 11:08:25 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:44 <|amethyst> Nonethousand In Furs 11:08:53 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:21 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:00 so I remember a couple of months ago there were all these interesting Zot floor layouts, very alien looking. Did those get removed/reduced chance to generate? 11:10:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:02 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 11:10:55 I'm curious because I seem to remember the technique used by whoever wrote them (mumra?) being a mathematical curiousity which I might like to toy with reintroducing in another branch 11:11:42 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:45 <|amethyst> nonethousand: I don't think any of the layouts have been removed, though they may have been disabled in some or all branches 11:11:51 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:04 I guess the relevant stuff would be somewhere in dat/des/builder? 11:16:52 <|amethyst> nonethousand: and/or dat/dlua/layout/ 11:16:58 <|amethyst> nonethousand: probably mostly in builder though 11:17:16 |amethyst: thank you 11:17:36 <|amethyst> nonethousand: there are also C++ layout engines in dgn-*.cc but I think most of mumra's layouts were Lua 11:17:51 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1285-gc1ddd44 (34) 11:18:02 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:56 |amethyst: ah yes dat/dlua/layout looks like the right place to begin my investigation. Thanks again 11:20:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:00 <|amethyst> nonethousand: you can also try git log --author Pete 11:24:11 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:26:27 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:46 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:33 Worley noise, that is what I was looking for 11:27:37 excellent 11:29:23 some of these map generators are so awesome 11:29:24 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:33 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32:17 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:35:35 -!- Zabo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:37:37 -!- Foamed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:28 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:21 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:37 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:53 -!- chewymouse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:46:07 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46:37 -!- Rebenga has quit [Quit: Goodbye, World] 11:46:42 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 11:47:05 -!- sprort has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:52:14 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:52:31 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 12:05:41 -!- pwnmonke_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:58 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:24 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:58 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:59 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:18 -!- pwnmonke_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:03 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:11 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:03 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:00 -!- Lightli has quit [Client Quit] 12:36:06 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:30 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:22 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:43 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:47 -!- hkl has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:49:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:33 -!- Marbit has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:51:49 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:59:36 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03:27 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:04:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:07:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:01 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:05 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:16:07 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:17:15 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:24 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:53 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:45 -!- Hirsch_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:25:55 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:14 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:59 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:36 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:31 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:07 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:49 -!- pwnmonke_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:47:19 galehar: indeed, it worked only after removal of the old install first 13:53:03 -!- Yeti218 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:54:07 -!- Zelda has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:19 -!- wack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:32 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:33 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:38 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:38 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:01 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:06 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:01 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:56 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:56 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:26 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:03 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 14:17:01 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:02 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:57 -!- alchemist_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:20:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:14 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:14 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:50 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 14:23:55 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:24:52 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:25:57 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:57 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:01 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:01 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:02 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:02 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:26 -!- CedorDark has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:38 -!- Cedor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:27 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 14:38:06 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:29 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:32 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:34 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:52 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:53 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:15 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:03 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:04 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:05 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:31 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:32 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:55 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:39 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:53:03 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:04 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:45 !seen ontoclasm 14:53:46 I last saw ontoclasm at Tue Dec 3 08:46:14 2013 UTC (12h 7m 31s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 240 seconds'. 14:56:03 I keep forgetting to finish listing all those untiled monster spell/ability/whatever icons 14:58:28 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:00:43 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:48 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:53 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:54 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:19 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:58 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:32 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:55 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:24 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:50 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:55 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:56 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:47 is there a good reason (now that butchering doesn't require the weapon slot) that spider form can't butcher? 15:14:06 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:06 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:26 -!- Brokkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:50 because somebody has to implement spiders just eating the corpses 15:16:51 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:00 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:13 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:15 tenofswords: via 'q' rather than 'e'? 15:17:33 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:37 obviously 15:19:53 ice form doesn't have weapons yet it knows how to butcher 15:20:04 why can't spider form work that way 15:22:06 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:06 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:56 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:56 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:26 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:27:05 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:35 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:40 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:07 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:44 -!- LS is now known as Guest29559 15:31:20 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:15 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:25 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:41 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:43 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:17 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:17 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:39 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1286-g0234259: Add compile time size check for s_equip_slot_names 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0234259b169c 15:37:11 hmm, I need more material for a flood 15:38:28 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: ophanim] 15:40:47 water? 15:41:14 clearly lava 15:42:28 (although that did remind me of how I want to cut cocytus big fish/jellyfish/goldfish) 15:42:39 sounds good 15:43:01 -!- wack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:03 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:07 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:10 (and replace them with hydras) 15:44:44 by that point, hydra aren't that scary anymore 15:44:50 try hydra simulacrums I guess 15:45:15 <|amethyst> still scarier than goldfish 15:45:40 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:45:45 maybe there just shouldn't be water spawns in cocytus 15:45:52 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 15:46:17 a freezing hell probably is incapable of supporting life 15:46:17 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:18 hydra simulacra die easily but they'd be much better than fish 15:46:29 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 15:46:35 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:54 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:31 -!- Guest29559 has quit [] 15:49:56 either that or we need hellfish 15:51:36 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:51:52 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:51:56 fr: "lava foo" derived monsters, akin to simulacra. Then, we won't need separate lava orcs, instantly getting lava quokkas and co :) 15:52:16 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:52 vault with lava frost giants accompanied by fire giant simulacra 15:54:35 kilobyte: that would be great 15:54:48 lava kraken! 15:54:49 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:02 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 15:55:04 would be a really awesome spell - a kraken's many tentacles, each of which generates a heat aura 15:55:19 summ/fire/earth 9? 15:55:52 tmut/fire/earth 15:56:06 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html 15:56:35 Xom's power touches on you for a moment. _Your feet feel warm. 15:56:38 I'm a Dj 15:57:02 good 15:58:06 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:58:08 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:58:36 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:47 <|amethyst> Lightli: the problem is, what word to use for their "feet" 16:02:22 <|amethyst> player_has_feet returns false, but usually that means foot_name returns something else (like "underbelly" for nagas) 16:02:50 djinn should have feet 16:02:53 that would solve this 16:03:02 <|amethyst> I wouldn't be opposed to that 16:03:05 [curse toe joke] 16:03:24 <|amethyst> especially now that they have ordinary (but unstoppable) flight rather than hover 16:05:40 hmm, i like the idea of a semi-wimpy flying lava monster with temperature aura, a lava spit attack, keep range, and escape-zerk to rush you if it gets hurt too much 16:06:28 bh is that you 16:07:07 -!- orionstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:13 st_, be polite, eronarn made vampire mosquitoes, he's got higher priorities on "worst monsters" than bh 16:07:32 -!- orionstein_ is now known as orionstein 16:08:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:08:39 what's the word for "tapering down ghostly thingy at the underside"? 16:08:54 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:32 "trail" 16:12:29 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:35 <|amethyst> "taper" 16:12:39 <|amethyst> "cloudy bits" 16:13:18 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:13:53 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:15:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:02 "underside" is lame but safe 16:16:46 http://sprunge.us/AgHj - replace the weakling fish zombies in Hells with some amphibious, stronger (but not particularly dangerous for extended) zombie bases 16:16:59 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:17:09 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:17:36 This article sounds like fun: "A procedural procedural level generator generator". 16:18:08 (still waiting for any commentary on http://sprunge.us/OTMN , to un-break D:9-16 oods without encoraching on Depths oods) 16:18:38 -!- halv has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:40 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: the auto manufacturers still won't answer my letters suggesting a "check check engine light light", and in case that fails a "check check check engine light light light" 16:19:04 i think the super-ood spawns for branches should be looked at in general so that patch is probably good 16:19:20 <|amethyst> evilmike: have you seen tenofsword's spreadsheet? 16:19:24 <|amethyst> s/'s/s'/ 16:19:34 nope 16:19:35 <|amethyst> evilmike: it is awesome stuff 16:19:38 (has anybody besides |amethyt) 16:19:49 last time i checked, "super ood" monsters (I define those as having a native depth past the branch's maxdepth) could be kind of arbitrary 16:20:04 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdHc2LWswckVoZUhnT3Y2Qzk3OFMzaVE#gid=10 16:20:12 <|amethyst> evilmike: it turns out that 8s in D right now are the same from D:8 down 16:20:24 <|amethyst> evilmike: because of the D:20 OOD cap 16:20:29 ah 16:20:38 the other user of "underside" is the jelly form, that somehow still hasn't been purged 16:20:48 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1287-ge81ac71: A lame name for djinni "feet". 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e81ac713d0ff 16:20:50 <|amethyst> evilmike: and even ignoring that, there are weird artefacts near the top end 16:20:51 agate snails 16:21:06 should I put it out of its misery? Or investigate making it more acid blobby or such? 16:21:25 currently the four most common "super-oods" are hill giant, zombie, ugly thing, and centaur warrior 16:21:39 poor post-Lair D has been so neutered 16:21:42 yeah thats lousy 16:22:15 <|amethyst> part of the problem is that it's hard to tell from the picker what the distribution will be 16:22:36 <|amethyst> e.g. FLAT usually actually means the probability increases with depth, because there's less chaff competing 16:22:51 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:19 tenofswords: I think derived undead in the Abyss can still be somewhat fun, they'd just need a proper list (with mandatory grey anaconda skeletons...) 16:23:31 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:35 tenofswords: also, current derived undead in hells suck like a Vax 16:23:43 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:23:47 I agree completely, go code it :P 16:24:01 :p 16:24:48 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:53 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:33 super-oods don't really exist for anywhere besides D, V, Depths, and I guess the occasional evilmike_ambush in Elf since that gets the master foo 16:26:40 how'd you generate that table btw? please dont tell me you did it manually.. 16:27:02 something like "= IF(AND(AH$2 >= $B3, AH$2 <= $C3), $D3 * 2520 * (2*($C3 - $B3) - ABS($B3 + $C3 - 2 * AH$2)) / (2*($C3 - $B3)), 0)" 16:27:13 (which is, uh, SEMI) 16:27:31 kilobyte: I was pretty excited about jelly form and even tried it out 16:27:33 and then copy-pasting stuff dependent on which distribution formula 16:27:58 (yes I was actually doing something rsembling manual at the beginning shut up) 16:28:01 oh I was secretly hoping there was a cool script that made all of it 16:28:18 that should actually exist so I don't have to do this all again 16:28:24 and then you could like, tweak stuff and run tests and finally get the perfect monster distribution 16:28:51 (and then somebody cuts five monsters) 16:29:07 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:12 -!- CedorDark has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:29:13 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:19 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:08 what are the huge numbers in the rightmost columns? 16:30:19 <|amethyst> the weights themselves 16:32:34 |amethyst: Think I got message history working now. 16:32:35 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:09 I save the inputs on client side, and figure out whether it's the same dialog by sending an identifier. 16:33:38 tiles.json_write_string("historyId", make_stringf("%p", history)); 16:33:55 Wonder if there is any downside to just using the pointer for that identifier. 16:34:25 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:25 when D was split, was the monster list for depths entirely redone? Some of the stats for Depths here look different from what I remember of old late D 16:34:34 yes, Depths was redone 16:34:38 And did D just keep a truncated version of old D? 16:34:45 yup 16:35:09 Perahps D should be redone too (very cautiously for the early floors) 16:35:38 can certainly at least screw around with D:13-16, since post-lair D is rather awkward 16:36:19 it's just the first couple of floors that need to be careful, I think 16:36:30 should definitely learn the lesson of Depths from a D revamp, though, which is that there needs to be heavy rarity gradiants or there's little variety between 9s and 8s (or in the branch 0s themselves) 16:36:40 oh, yes, of course 16:37:02 from learn the lesson.. is that something Depths did wrong, or right? 16:37:10 people seem to like the monster distribution there, in terms of the balance 16:37:55 it's good in that it cut a _lot_ of cruft, but I worry that people will get tired of it because while it's a good starting level of difficulty it just becomes five floors of that 16:38:06 i see 16:39:13 well, making there be a difference between floors is a good goal. this is still a problem in the other shorter branches too 16:39:50 swamp:3 is probably harder than swamp:5 aside from the vault 16:43:10 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 16:46:30 -!- wack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:00 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:18 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:16 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 16:58:31 -!- evilmike has quit [] 16:58:51 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:01:51 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:13 -!- hasufell has quit [Quit: gone] 17:02:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 17:14:03 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:14:05 -!- Arkaniad_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:39 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1288-g1da7edb: Support for get_line history in WebTiles 10(31 minutes ago, 2 files, 32+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1da7edb09288 17:20:01 tenofswords: Why 17:21:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:26:19 hrm, pan has rare water and it hardly can just use stuff that will become zombies 17:27:27 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:29:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:35 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 17:36:56 -!- st_ has quit [] 17:37:47 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:39:07 -!- Vherid has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:39:38 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:04 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:04 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 17:41:04 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:59 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:10 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:03:36 -!- Brokkr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:04 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 18:18:30 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:55 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:21 Random thought: whould combining Breath and Exhaustion do something interesting (or just simplify things) 18:28:09 tenofswords: i'm glad that someone remembers that i was responsible for vampire mosquitoes! it is an often-forgotten fact 18:28:47 * kilobyte tries to think up a good enough way to thank you for that. 18:28:59 would an anthrax letter be fitting? 18:29:13 Keskitalo: i think combining them makes sense; i don't know that there would be any interesting mechanical interactions 18:29:22 kilobyte: made of pixie stix? 18:29:48 it would of course make Dr notably weaker, and mean that the status effect would not be able to have an associated penalty later, since so many things would inflict it on themselves 18:29:52 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:30:23 there would be some effects caused by the different durations of the effects, i assume... 18:31:50 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:57 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:35 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:40 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:47 -!- rast- is now known as rast 18:34:05 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:34:15 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 18:34:18 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:18 -!- Pulseman is now known as VolteccerJack 18:34:46 -!- eith_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:34:47 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:34:47 -!- jeffrom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:38 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:47 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:18 it might be an okay simplification, i guess the only notable change would be that you could use !restore abilities to refresh stuff that currently is on the Exh timer 18:39:46 (assuming that effect from Breath was kept) 18:39:52 -!- pwnmonke_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:22 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:44:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:46:35 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:47:47 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1289-g17fb304: Don't spam elevators and Zot-trapped stairs in Zot (minmay, tenofswords). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=17fb3040b4f0 18:49:32 MarvinPA: restab doing that was a silly joke that could easily be dropped 18:50:33 yeah it's sort of weird, i'm not a huge fan of it but it's interesting occasionally (chain-reciting is pretty great, especially since you don't need restab for anything else under zin) 18:50:36 <|amethyst> and you'd *want* restab to affect the exh timer if you did like the pun 18:51:00 <|amethyst> since berserk/jump is another ability to restore 18:51:07 yeah, works for me :] 18:51:56 berserk, jump, ddoor would become affected by it, don't think there's anything else that uses Exh? 18:52:16 <|amethyst> oh, ddoor 18:52:22 <|amethyst> that one's more significant 18:52:25 ddoor is probably the only potentially problematic one there, it could get its own unique timeout if necessary? 18:52:32 <|amethyst> yeah 18:52:45 <|amethyst> which means code isn't simplified any from status quo :/ 18:52:51 yeah 18:53:56 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:55 -!- inspector071 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:11 well, the ddoor timeout lasts so long... 18:56:52 pretty cool that 'reciting is pretty great' is a thing 18:56:53 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:13 purely metaphorical question: 18:57:33 if someone were to make an entirely new set of tiles, possibly at a different size 18:57:43 2x2 18:57:44 how much coding would be required to make them useable? 18:57:56 also, it could be a different item that restores abilities, more good potions means less actually good ones 18:58:00 like, how hard-coded is the 32x32 bit? 18:58:26 speaking of recite, what if the axe of law did recite effects on enemies? 18:58:28 ontoclasm: you mean, to compile it just for 64x64 or what-have-you? 18:58:50 ??axe of law 18:58:50 I don't have a page labeled axe_of_law in my learndb. 18:58:51 yeah, it doesn't need to be switcheable on-the-fly or anything 18:58:58 ...switchable? 18:59:07 <|amethyst> does PNG support mipmaps? 18:59:09 i really hope the name isn't 'the axe of law' 18:59:17 Eronarn: it's some patch on mantis 18:59:42 |amethyst: i'm not sure if png by itself does, but apng defintely does 19:00:00 combine axe of law and singing sword to do recite at high tension 19:00:00 |amethyst: why would it have to? 19:00:04 here, let me make the patch 100x better: s/the axe of law/Axiom/i 19:00:11 <|amethyst> SamB: if we did want to be able to switch 19:00:25 <|amethyst> SamB: rather than scaling at runtime 19:00:36 tenofswords: singing sword should really sing more rather than just being noisy imo 19:00:46 ...it, uh, does "sing"? 19:00:59 unless you mean over several turns or non-randomly or something 19:01:02 <|amethyst> It quotes lyrics 19:01:03 -!- Rajih has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:30 |amethyst: if we wanted, we could generate two sets of tilesheets for the two sizes and keep them in two PNG files per sheet 19:01:34 over several turns yes. also sing to do damage, instead of just shouting. 19:01:49 or it could sing skald songs for you instead of doing the damage shout 19:02:06 where'd the "songS" part come from 19:02:18 i figured having smaller, sharper tiles might be nice for mobile devices etc. 19:02:27 <|amethyst> actually, I guess it doesn't sing compared to blather all that often 19:02:35 tiny screens, whatever 19:02:44 ontoclasm: donation-only luxury 128x128 tiles 19:02:49 for retina macbooks 19:03:00 Eronarn: what, they have retina^2 now? 19:03:00 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 19:03:04 you could make a font with crawl tiles and then use it in console 19:03:26 start with http://rltiles.sourceforge.net/dc-3d.html :P 19:03:49 SamB: i guess that'd be *2... 64x64 would be more right 19:03:56 (2880-by-1800) 19:04:21 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:45 (fr retile executioners to be like that) 19:04:58 Eronarn: yeah, I know retina basically is a scheme whereby the DPI are doubled and software that doesn't adapt has images drawn blurry ... 19:05:02 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 19:06:24 SamB: blurriness isn't the problem - smallness is (though of course things will appear crisper if they're drawn natively retina-size) 19:06:45 if you programmed it in a stupid dpi-assuming way, higher DPI = less screen space 19:07:12 Eronarn: hmm, perhaps it works differently with SDL/GL than with the normal Mac APIs 19:07:23 though the worst problem i've run into is actually multimonitor with a non-retina display 19:07:27 holy crap does that cause a lot of weirdness 19:07:36 in fact, almost certainly 19:08:16 my understanding is that the Mac APIs have used floating-point for coordinates since they were the NeXT APIs 19:09:08 <|amethyst> since they were Display Postscript 19:09:22 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:23 and that, with a retina display, a pixel is just 0.5 on a side instead of 1.0 on a side 19:10:31 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:45 -!- tigertrap has quit [Quit: tigertrap] 19:14:24 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 19:15:36 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:19:22 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:20:08 * tenofswords continues to hum patiently 19:21:20 -!- ohyeah1213 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:22:17 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 19:24:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 19:30:55 -!- magistern has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:25 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:36:00 interesting, I saw the crypt entrance on V:3 but ctrl-o doesn't know about it 19:36:44 went back to stand in sight of it again and now it does 19:36:57 something about mimics? 19:37:24 I don't think there were any mimics anywhere 19:38:24 * tenofswords shrugs 19:45:15 -!- jason55 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:45:53 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:55 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:33 -!- Whales has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:38 Crash when going down stairs in Vaults by saltylicorice 19:54:20 <|amethyst> haha 19:54:28 <|amethyst> an old save on Vaults:6 19:54:38 wow, really 19:54:43 haha 19:55:31 <|amethyst> Upgraded the game from 0.11.0 to 0.12.1 19:55:36 <|amethyst> Upgraded the game from 0.12.1 to 0.13.0 19:56:10 elliptic: Do you dislike mimics because of the code complexity or the gameplay aspect? Their ability to mimic practically anything is pretty amazing, although I can see how people might hate it 19:57:09 the idea is sort of neat and the code complexity doesn't seem to be a problem, but the gameplay is quite bad 19:57:49 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 19:58:12 one of the major problems with mimics existing is that you are encouraged to walk adjacent to every escape hatch just so that you know whether it is a mimic before you try running there from something scary 19:58:31 obviously autoexplore needs mimic checks 19:58:48 this could be addressed to some extent by not mimicking escape hatches, though there might still be items near an escape route of course 19:59:10 obviously mimics need to mimic floors 19:59:25 one of the other problems with mimics is that they are extremely, extremely weak melee-only monsters and thus don't do anything when autoexplore does take you next to one 19:59:29 fr: air mimic 19:59:45 they still can mimic floors! 19:59:57 they used to be stronger, but of course that just exacerbated the first problem 19:59:58 only during buggy scwenarios 20:00:07 <|amethyst> for problem 1: whenever you spawn a mimic, spawn gold on an adjacent square 20:00:08 (if they were a portal mimic and then you got the orb so the portal disappeared, i should mantis that or something yeah) 20:00:14 <|amethyst> that way autoexplore will take you adjacent 20:00:22 <|amethyst> :P 20:00:30 |amethyst: qw would get around that 20:00:35 (by not having gold on autopickup) 20:01:00 qw should pick up gold just so it can be seen trying to do a zig 20:01:00 put a runed exec axe next to each mimic also 20:01:12 <|amethyst> avoid any feature next to a pile of gold 20:01:14 <|amethyst> just in case 20:01:28 apport every item, just in case 20:01:29 doesn't qw skip exec axes, preferring battleaxes for some reason? 20:01:46 |amethyst: we clearly need to put piles of gold (and runed exec axes) next to every feature 20:01:49 even if not mimic 20:02:03 elliptic: lol 20:02:05 of course, that gold and those runed exec axes could also be mimics 20:02:07 <|amethyst> and then remove consumables 20:02:11 <|amethyst> no more item destruction 20:02:17 <|amethyst> just axes upon axes 20:02:18 kilobyte: it prefers battleaxes slightly because 26 axes skill takes a while on Gr, but it still checks all the runed exec axes normally and is very happy with a vamp one 20:03:24 elliptic: I say lol because I'm probably imagining more things as "feature" than you are 20:03:34 SamB: doors count! 20:03:48 I was imagining walls too 20:03:51 okay you win 20:03:55 even though those obviously aren't mimicable 20:03:56 pff 20:04:12 <|amethyst> Would unnaturally hard rock wall mimics be invincible? 20:04:12 the most important feature to have a runed exec axe beside is the exit out of the dungeon 20:04:16 duh 20:04:19 actually, why don't wall mimics exist 20:04:43 because every single vault would need no_mimic tags or I'd kill you 20:04:44 they would block LoS like door mimics, which already makes them more interesting than other feature mimics! 20:05:21 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: ninja kapow!] 20:05:30 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:39 obligatory tree mimic joke for forest 20:06:55 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:16 my best idea for fixing mimics: make them reveal themselves as soon as you see them, rather than waiting until you are next to them 20:07:31 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:32 and maybe make them fast and/or give them some more interesting attacks 20:08:06 make them reveal themselves when they are within XL spaces of you 20:08:18 this sounds weird when paired with los-shrinking 20:08:30 unfortunately, they are basically the same thing as any other monster after you do this 20:08:52 so in summary: remove mimics 20:09:43 any other monster except there's some part of the dungeon missing afterwards 20:10:06 yes 20:11:36 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:42 elliptic: I just FSIMmed a battleaxe vs an exec axe: battleaxe is a tiny bit better at skill 16..21, and worse everywhere else, often by quite a margin 20:12:12 kilobyte: was it enchanted? 20:12:21 both enchantment and berserk help the faster weapon, of course 20:12:29 and it spends a lot of time berserk 20:12:47 both at 0, right 20:12:48 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 20:13:08 (also, the AC of the enemy matters) 20:13:15 what enchantment should I try? 20:13:28 anyway the preference between battleaxe and exec axe is more of a tiebreaker than anything 20:13:36 %rc qw 20:13:37 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/qw.rc 20:14:12 it values a +0,+2.5 exec axe the same as a +0,+0 battleaxe 20:14:39 it usually ends up with a battleaxe i assume since a vamp one is more common than an exec one? 20:15:15 since it uses enchant scrolls as it finds them and mainly uses trog gifts, average enchantment is probably +6 or so 20:16:09 wheals: yeah, though some games it doesn't find vamp of course... but still it gets several times more battleaxes than exec axes 20:21:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:33 at +6, against a death yak, battle wins at 12..22 20:21:59 by quite a smaller margin than exec, of course 20:22:14 but you have a point there: 12..22 is quite a chunk of the game 20:24:39 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:30:02 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1290-g66358bb: Some mostly decorative stair vaults. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 159+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=66358bb95608 20:30:02 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1291-g95fcdb7: Clear up a few strange vault depth quirks arising from Depths. 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95fcdb712fa5 20:31:39 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:38:19 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all! :D] 20:39:49 not entirely sure about the placing monsters in a floating extra vault, but that stuff is too much of a headache for me anyway 20:40:19 Battlesphere can be used to attack submerged monsters by amic 20:51:31 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:41 I stepped on a zot trap in vaults and got greeted by hostile shadow creatures. I somehow survived and of course proceeded to blame Grunt. 20:54:45 %git 149ef16da 20:54:45 07elliptic02 * 0.13-a0-636-g149ef16: Hand-pick Zot trap effects. 10(7 months ago, 2 files, 244+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=149ef16daee6 20:54:54 but it seems I'll have to lay blame elsewhere 20:55:18 Actually that was a good change 20:57:36 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 21:06:48 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:58 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:29 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:49 -!- Silent_Samurai has joined ##crawl-dev 21:15:57 -!- Silent_Samurai is now known as Somefellow 21:16:49 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:13 -!- jarpiain is now known as Guest8739 21:17:42 -!- Guest1161 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:44 -!- mee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:46 -!- neuwiz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:16 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:19 -!- Slowpoke_Man has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:19 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:19 -!- Slowpoke_Man has quit [Changing host] 21:19:19 -!- Slowpoke_Man has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:36 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:58 -!- mee is now known as Guest23767 21:21:12 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:22:08 -!- Slowpoke_Man is now known as BlastHardcheese 21:22:45 -!- Trospie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:26:23 * tenofswords starts tapping his foot 21:26:23 * Sequell also starts tapping his foot 21:27:05 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:27:22 * SamB wishes that would happen to him sometime 21:27:58 hey sequell will _you_ push my patches 21:30:29 <|amethyst> Which one am I looking at? OTMN? 21:31:07 <|amethyst> It helps if you are a little more explicit with your impatience :) 21:31:16 yes, that one 21:34:23 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:24 <|amethyst> tenofswords: btw, the ranges in the percentage formulas in worksheet "Current D (Trunk)" are wrong 21:36:31 <|amethyst> =AA8/SUM(AA$3:AL$129) 21:36:35 <|amethyst> that AL should be AA 21:37:16 ...whoops 21:38:26 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:40 to be honest, I just referred to the Dungeon (Pre-D-Split) sheet for the stats, and only had the Current D sheet to copy for Proposed D 21:40:02 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:03 -!- minqmay_ is now known as minqmay 21:40:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:39 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:35 -!- Whales has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:52:33 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:07 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:14 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:02:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1292-g864a66a: Fix whitespace. 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=864a66ab4228 22:02:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1293-gc3a83af: Correct some stray commas. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3a83af8d92f 22:02:45 03HangedMan02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-1294-g70db396: Somewhat un-nerf D:9-16 OODs/vaults, change OOD-only D spawns 10(26 hours ago, 2 files, 124+ 92-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=70db396d951b 22:03:22 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:36 hey sorry, i have a sequell quesiton, maybe someone in here can help 22:03:40 i have this query 22:03:42 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:03:45 !lg * s=char o=-char x=max(sc) / @awbw fmt:"${.}" ?:%.max(sc)=1 22:03:48 752/43253 games for *: CeHe, DDAM, DDAs, DDEn, DDFE, DDIE, DDJr, DDMo, DDWn, DgAE, DjVM, DrAr, DrWr, DsWr, GrCK, GrGl, HOEE, HOHu, HuHu, KoGl, KoMo, KoSu, LOAE, MfAE, MfHe, MfJr, MfMo, MfNe, MfPr, MfWn, MiCj, MiEE, OgEn, SEGl, SEIE, TeDK, TeFi, TeGl, TrSu 22:04:01 how can i modify it to show the name of the person who owns the high score in [] next to each char? 22:04:31 !lg awbw s=name 22:04:35 10322 games for awbw: 2857x snack, 1544x WalkerBoh, 1226x MorganLeah, 1174x rzimodnar, 858x Suckerboh, 729x TheMute, 670x Rast, 552x quackv2, 266x mrclean, 184x Glenstorm, 107x LittleM, 81x Ana, 53x awbwrobin, 21x Adder 22:04:43 because awbw is just a nick mapping 22:05:35 using fmt:"${.} [${name}]" just gives [awbw] next to each char, it doesn't separate into the actual names 22:05:46 (sorry if this is more appropriate in ##crawl) 22:06:05 WalkerBoh: it might be best to move this to ##crawl-sequell, actually 22:06:14 you could maybe ask in ##crawl-sequell (but probably everyone in there is in here also) 22:06:15 oh, i didn't even know that existed, thanks 22:06:23 ah elliptic beat me to it yeah 22:06:36 i'll just repaste there =p 22:07:10 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:28 |amethyst: <3 22:08:41 -!- Sky__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:09:20 now if only I could figure out water/lava spawns for hellpan 22:12:40 ...whoops, forgot to update the comment stating the D ood-cap to 27 instead of 20, argh 22:14:08 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:33 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1295-g809a068: Update a comment (HangedMan) 10(29 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=809a068d0166 22:14:48 -!- Naphistim has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:31 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:55 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:19:17 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:40 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:00 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:32 -!- wack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25:22 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 22:26:01 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:34:46 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:43:54 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1296-g69087e4: Remove bottled efreets 10(52 minutes ago, 25 files, 20+ 126-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69087e47693a 22:43:54 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1297-g3d87a2a: Adjust some shop vaults 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d87a2aa3b6a 22:46:26 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:51:24 I noticed a potential recite problem 22:55:04 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:33 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:13 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 22:58:35 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:39 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:01:35 G-Flex: the fact that you need Zin? 23:11:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:17:32 zin is actually not bad these days 23:17:41 well, the problem is with shapeshifters, but it's part of a more general issue 23:17:51 the game seems confused about when exactly to let you know that a shapeshifter is a shapeshifter 23:18:01 -!- Keskital1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:06 you know it if it leaves a corpse when it dies, but not when it doesn't (even though its shape would still change while it does) 23:18:08 that is not hard to believe 23:18:09 while it dies, rather 23:18:10 -!- ColdPie_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:30 that the game is confused, I mean 23:18:33 zin will also let you recite to shapeshifters, and include them in the visible list of recitable monsters 23:18:40 but won't outright tell you it's a shapeshifter, even then 23:18:53 so you can recite to a jumping spider for no apparent reason, and kill it not even knowing it's a shapeshifter 23:19:03 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:19:48 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:23 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:21 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:21 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:25 -!- ColdPie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:25 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:29 -!- buki has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:34 -!- UnknownUser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:35 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:23:10 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:44 -!- WalkerBoh has left ##crawl-dev 23:26:57 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:06 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:08 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:28 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:04 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:07 -!- magistern_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:43:23 G-Flex: it would seem reasonable to give zinites the ability to identify shapeshifters on sight 23:44:46 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46:27 -!- Blazinghand__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:48:21 -!- Arkaniad_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:48:56 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:49:12 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:52:59 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:31 -!- Guest_41 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:56:39 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:58:12 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:24 -!- rchandra has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:58:30 -!- rchandra1 is now known as rchandra 23:59:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle]