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00:00:40 <Sizzell> Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13.0-17-g5f0e85f
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00:02:05 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-320-gac82fe4 (34)
00:05:20 * SamB is puzzled; he just started a VpTm and had no spells prememorized?
00:05:39 <simmarine> vp cant transform unless full or higher
00:06:10 <Ruffell> Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-320-gac82fe4 (34)
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00:11:03 <Gretell> Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13.0-17-g5f0e85f (34)
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00:36:26 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-320-gac82fe4
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00:45:00 <|amethyst> SamB:  got another few
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00:52:54 <ontoclasm> bug?: immolation is still dirt cheap in shops
00:53:01 <ontoclasm> despite not being a bad item any more
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00:59:13 <|amethyst> I'd kind of prefer it not be marked dangerous either
00:59:24 <|amethyst> but I can understand it still being so
00:59:34 <simmarine> well it definitely has danger
00:59:54 <|amethyst> yeah, but enough to disable autopickup by default?
01:00:15 <simmarine> probably, i still dont want to use it on most characters
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01:24:27 <SamB> |amethyst: I got stuck between your ghost and a gnoll just now ...
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01:27:46 <|amethyst> what combo?
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01:30:45 <SamB> don't remember
01:30:50 <SamB> !lg .
01:30:50 <Sequell> 1271. SamB the Skirmisher (L4 HOFi), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+0 halberd) on D:3 on 2013-10-21 06:23:26, with 135 points after 1365 turns and 0:04:07.
01:31:02 <|amethyst> !lg samb -log
01:31:03 <Sequell> 1271. SamB, XL4 HOFi, T:1365: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/SamB/morgue-SamB-20131021-062326.txt
01:31:17 <|amethyst> ah
01:31:26 <|amethyst> I just got the combo with the next ceee
01:31:30 <|amethyst> !lg .
01:31:31 <Sequell> 7541. neil the Digger (L5 CeEE), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, succumbed to a kobold's poison on D:3 on 2013-10-21 06:27:07, with 369 points after 3098 turns and 0:06:58.
01:31:53 <SamB> nice, since I decided to stop trying that
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01:53:16 <Naruni> hey folks
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02:24:10 <kilobyte> ugh, could someone provide a single reason _for_ that Gr rElec change?
02:24:47 <kilobyte> I see several reasons not to, but not a single positive
02:26:51 <kilobyte> having multiple innates, the only argument provided in the commit message, is an argument for keeping it rather than removing: the more races differ between each other, the better
02:28:34 <kilobyte> and there are other reasons: realism (stone), player confusion with monster gargoyles, not making changes from what players learned in 0.13 without it improving the game, etc
02:29:14 <kilobyte> any reason not to revert?
02:30:10 <MarvinPA> bh and elliptic appeared to agree with removing it
02:30:12 <kilobyte> as for autopickup of "dangerous" items: other we have are potions of mutation, scrolls of torment and noise
02:30:31 <MarvinPA> just piling on a ton of mostly meaningless features does not really make a race more interesting or meaningfully different
02:30:50 <kilobyte> it's easier to find uses for "random uselessness" than noise
02:31:11 <SamB> kilobyte: you mean it's not good against merfolk?
02:31:40 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: yeah, so if it was the only reason, it should go, yeah.
02:32:20 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: except that it's not, starting with monster gargoyles
02:32:32 <MarvinPA> monster gargoyles barely exist and already nothing like player gargoyles
02:32:43 <kilobyte> SamB: oh right, sirens
02:33:12 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: a reason to fix rather than break further
02:33:32 <MarvinPA> the monsters can easily be changed, sure
02:34:12 <SamB> so how is a rock not resistant to electricity ...
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02:34:33 <kilobyte> SamB: yeah, theme is another reason
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02:37:25 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-321-gb54d7c0: Fix malign gateway not registering its terrain change. 10(64 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b54d7c0210d0
02:37:25 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-322-g09256f0: Fix lava orcs in water spawning steam in nearby walls. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=09256f04c568
02:37:27 <Cheibriados> Donald (02@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 84 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious | Res: 06magic(93), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1782 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

02:37:27 <Naruni> %??donald
02:38:39 <Naruni> why is donald amphibious?
02:38:48 <MarvinPA> they're made of "living stone" which is its own thing and can do pretty much whatever, including not being resistant to electricity the same way petrified humans aren't presumably
02:38:55 <SamB> Naruni: perhaps he is actually a duck
02:39:18 <Naruni> SamB: i didnt want to say that, but thats what i was thinking :)
02:39:37 <Naruni> "the duck corpse of donald" would be hilarious
02:41:27 <kilobyte> perhaps making him a merfolk or something would be better?
02:43:16 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: turning into "living stone" already does grant rElec
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02:49:00 <MarvinPA> except when you're petrified and it doesn't, yes
02:51:32 <kilobyte> statue form grants it explicitely, being petrified as part of the "all damage is halved" thing
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05:50:37 <Sizzell> rw (L1 TrCj)  (D:1)
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05:56:38 <kilobyte> !lm * crash -log
05:56:39 <Sequell> 5537. rw, XL1 TrCj, T:6 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/rw/crash-rw-20131021-105036.txt
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07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-323-gfd89fcf: Remove a special case that didn't appear to do anything 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd89fcf89012
07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-324-g2deea36: Increase the cost of scrolls of immolation slightly 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2deea36682dc
07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-325-g0c22243: Don't trigger backlash effects when failing to rebrand a weapon 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0c2224356dc5
07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-326-gca6a771: Allow aborting the staff of Olgreb's OTR without wasting a turn 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca6a77159783
07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-327-gf1e46e6: Fix Mephitic Cloud and Poisonous Cloud never prompting when aimed at self 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1e46e676c67
07:53:55 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-328-gc72be13: Remove the reaching brand 10(5 hours ago, 11 files, 20+ 41-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c72be133eeb0
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09:37:50 <alefury> MarvinPA: can you allow self targetting for unidentified wands (with a prompt)? It is occasionally useful.
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09:57:15 <ackack> alefury: is that a recent change?
09:57:51 <alefury> it was a suggestion
09:58:39 <ackack> i ask because i was under the impression you already could. i'm pretty sure i id most wands by self-aiming these days
09:58:45 <alefury> iirc you cant target yourself with unidentified wands if you switch off self targetting in the options, see the commit message of gf1e46e6 for details
09:58:49 <ackack> oh i see
10:00:21 <Bloax> Self-targetting is best left at 'ask'.
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10:01:11 <Bloax> Since allowing it will eventually cause you to slip and blast yourself with a bolt of cold on your squishy DE.
10:01:17 <Bloax> And disabling it is just plain annoying.
10:01:47 <Bloax> though this is of course what i think
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10:45:46 <ackack> i posted this a while ago on mantis and don't see any comments on it
10:45:47 <ackack> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7604
10:46:25 <ackack> i remember there was some discussion here at the time i posted it, and i was wondering if this is just going to stick around or if a change is likely at some point
10:48:34 <SamB> ackack: that sounds like a strange approach
10:48:41 <SamB> the self-aim thing
10:49:02 <ackack> samb: what is nice about it is that you don't waste charges
10:49:32 <ackack> unless it's digging, but then you've id'd digging instead of reducing it to digging/heal wounds/random effects
10:49:44 <MarvinPA> how do you figure that
10:50:04 <ackack> marvinpa: i mean relative to spending wand charges on monsters and having them do nothing
10:50:04 <MarvinPA> self-zapping costs just as many charges as not self-zapping
10:50:41 <SamB> yeah, I kind of figured he meant relative to having no apparant result because the monster resisted ...
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10:51:14 <SamB> or at least no particular result
10:51:26 <ackack> heal wounds and tele i think are where it matters most
10:51:51 <ackack> in that they don't have many charges and finding out as efficiently as possible that you have one actually has merit
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10:52:14 <MarvinPA> or you could just go find a rat instead of maybe blowing yourself up i guess
10:52:14 <elliptic> the zap-ID game is just fiddly and weird in general
10:52:20 <MarvinPA> but yes basically wands should just always id after a zap
10:52:32 <ackack> yes, the first couple wands i find i don't self-test, by around d:5+ i do
10:53:05 <elliptic> I sort of feel like wands should ID on pickup
10:53:06 <jeanjacques> i agree that it would be useful to allow it for wands
10:53:20 <elliptic> if they are going to be so easy to ID with one zap if you know what you are doing
10:53:37 <jeanjacques> then again i scroll id about half of my wands
10:53:38 <MarvinPA> well iding on zap keeps the tradeoff of wasting at least one charge if you don't use a scroll
10:53:39 <elliptic> it would give everyone one free charge but that could be compensated by just generating them with one less charge
10:53:57 <ackack> re: the summoning behavior mantis link i posted, do people agree it would be nice for that to be more consistent?
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10:54:22 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  how do you feel about "fire dragon"?
10:54:39 <MarvinPA> reducing max charges by 1 is sort of a bigger change since that affects wands past your first of each type too but it probably doesn't matter too much either way
10:55:01 <ackack> you could presumably keep max charges the same and just have the initial charging be generated with one charge less on average
10:55:02 <MarvinPA> fire dragon is fine by me
10:55:02 <elliptic> okay reduce generated charges by 0.3 on average :P
10:55:13 <elliptic> and yes, this has nothing to do with max charges
10:55:21 <MarvinPA> uh yeah not max charges, you know what i mean
10:55:43 <ackack> ah, i actually hadn't understood, but now i've got you
10:56:08 <MarvinPA> ackack: re monster-only summons, it's just a matter of actually implementing it i would expect
10:56:27 <ackack> ok, cool
10:57:59 <Eronarn> it feels like just yesterday that people were complaining that fire dragon wasn't flavorful
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10:58:30 <ackack> the heat is too overpowering
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12:08:00 <Henzell> Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13.0-17-g5f0e85f
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12:23:58 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-328-gc72be13 (34)
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12:39:09 <SamB> okay, so I figured out why this CrawlStoreValue is printing like an integral type ... it's because of my own pretty-printerr :-)
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12:45:19 <SamB> |amethyst, kilobyte: I have not, however, figured out why applying http://sprunge.us/UESG causes crawl to assert during startup :-(
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13:02:35 <Cheibriados> Allow querying \ screen when reading scrolls of identify <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7654> by chris
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13:13:35 <|amethyst> !tell SamB what's the assertion?
13:13:39 <Henzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let samb know.
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13:27:43 <HenryClay_> I'm trying to write a patch for my own use that will automatically save the game and close the tiles window when I get below 30% health.  I will then force myself to take a five minute break. I have realized that almost all of my deaths come from impatrience.  Hopefully this will make me play more cautiously.  I'm having a hard time finding the place in the code that handles save files though...can anyone help?
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13:29:40 <Naruni> HenryClay_: look through the l_*.cc files and search for saving
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13:29:53 <SamB> hmm, wouldn't it just do Ctrl-S again when you tried to load it?
13:29:53 <Henzell> SamB: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
13:29:54 <Naruni> it would be a lua function if it was called from in game
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13:30:08 <Naruni> or perhaps you could set your own macro
13:30:18 <SamB> !messages
13:30:19 <Henzell> (1/1) |amethyst said (16m 41s ago): what's the assertion?
13:30:53 <SamB> ASSERT(val.type == SV_NONE || val.type == type) in 'store.cc' at line 1675 failed.
13:31:01 <HenryClay_> Naruni: Thanks!  I'll check it out
13:31:17 <SamB> (gdb) print val.type
13:31:17 <SamB> $2 = SV_BOOL
13:31:17 <SamB> (gdb) print type
13:31:17 <SamB> $3 = SV_BYTE
13:31:39 <SamB> |amethyst: why, does it not happen for you?
13:31:40 <Naruni> HenryClay_: also read autofight.lua and look at hp_is_low
13:31:49 <|amethyst> SamB:  no, 32-bit here
13:32:00 <SamB> I am also using 32-bit
13:32:18 <Naruni> if you can somehow globalize that into your rc file and rewrite it to trigger a macro that saves and exits that would be one approach
13:32:20 <SamB> % cat .cflags
13:32:20 <SamB> ccache gcc ccache g++ -O0 -ggdb -pipe -gdwarf-4 -Wall -Wformat-security -Wmissing-declarations -Wundef -Wno-array-bounds -Wno-parentheses -Wno-unused-parameter -Wwrite-strings -Wshadow -Winvalid-pch -Icontrib/install/i486-linux-gnu/include -Iutil -I. -I/usr/include/lua5.1 -I/usr/include -Irltiles -I/usr/include/ncursesw -DTOURNEY='"0.13"' -DDGL_MILESTONES -DDGL_WHEREIS -DDGL_EXTENDED_LOGFILES -DDEBUG_TESTS -UDEBUG_DIA
13:32:20 <SamB> GNOSTICS -DDEBUG -DWIZARD -DASSERTS -DCLUA_BINDINGS
13:33:02 <|amethyst> i486-linux-gnu-gcc i486-linux-gnu-g++ -O0 -ggdb -pipe -Wall -Wformat-security -Wmissing-declarations -DUSE_TILE -DUSE_TILE_WEB -Wundef -Wno-array-bounds -Wno-parentheses -Wno-unused-parameter -Wwrite-strings -Wshadow -Icontrib/install/i486-linux-gnu/include -Iutil -I. -I/usr/include/lua5.1 -I/usr/include -Irltiles -I/usr/include/ncursesw -DTOURNEY='"0.13"' -DDEBUG -DWIZARD -DASSERTS -DCLUA_BINDINGS
13:33:42 <HenryClay_> Naruni:  Gotcha
13:33:59 <SamB> |amethyst: do you think maybe it would go away if I removed some of those -D flags?
13:34:20 <|amethyst> dunno, depends on the backtrace
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13:38:58 <SamB> http://sprunge.us/iIjH
13:39:36 <SamB> looks like a couple extra newlines snuck in at the end somehow
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13:45:40 <|amethyst> SamB:  see the cast at the beginning of CrawlStoreValue::new_vector
13:46:03 <|amethyst> SamB:  looks like we assume CrawlVector and CrawlStoreValue have the same layout, or at least that type is in the same place
13:49:54 <Cheibriados> 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-329-g7c54ee0: Allow querying \ screen when reading scrolls of identify 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7c54ee0de61f
13:49:54 <Cheibriados> Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.13
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13:54:04 <HenryClay_> Why does hello.lua exist?
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14:01:28 <eith> simple test
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14:13:15 <SamB> |amethyst: that would certainly explain it
14:14:19 <SamB> |amethyst: is that "shared prefix" thing guarenteed for non-standard-layout classes at all, and even if it is do we have all the data members at the same access level?
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14:17:24 <SamB> (and yes I'm referring to C++11 concepts, only because that part was mostly a standardization of existing practice and was essentially baked into our ABIs long ago, perhaps excepting some dark corners)
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14:21:47 <SamB> I guess these might be standard-layout
14:22:01 <SamB> hard to tell without access to C++11 to check with ...
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14:32:30 <myrmidette> ??iridescent scales
14:32:31 <Henzell> iridescent scales[1/1]: Level 1: +4 ac; Level 2: +6 ac; Level 3: +8 ac.
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16:57:59 <|amethyst> SamB:  they look standard-layout.  There are no virtual functions anyway
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17:29:45 <myrmidette> ??tengu reaver
17:29:46 <Henzell> tengu reaver[1/1]: Conjures at you (including {battlesphere}), then hits you much harder than other tengu. Beware!
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18:41:54 * xFleury is not a fan of seeing five Hydras on Elf:2 (I'm presuming this is the result of re-balancing Elven Halls monster table).
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18:43:05 <Zannick> maybe it's a result of elves going to the petting zoo to adopt pets
18:43:18 <Zannick> ?? lair
18:43:21 <Henzell> lair[1/3]: Accessed from the main dungeon somewhere between levels 8 and 13. Eight levels deep. The lair is full of "natural" critters such as rats, snakes, and yaks. One of Swamp/Shoals and one of Snake/Spider appears there, as well as Slime, and there is a relatively hard vault on Lair:8. The petting zoo of Crawl, if petting zoos had hydras.
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19:44:07 <gammafunk> MarvinPA: In case you weren't aware, in ac82fe46d you also increased stabbing damage under jump; stab_bonus is used in the damage denominator
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21:26:16 <SamB> |amethyst: okay, so the rules from C still apply and the casting trick is legal
21:26:48 <Grunt> SamB is a caster?
21:26:48 <Grunt> <_<
21:27:19 <SamB> is that some new term for a systems programmer?
21:27:40 <geekosaur> Trog only approves of static_cast >.>
21:27:55 <Grunt> ??caster
21:27:56 <Henzell> caster[1/6]: only a couple people actually mean "character that casts spells" when they say this
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21:35:17 <Sizzell> serber55 (L10 HOFi)  (Orc:2)
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22:46:25 <Lantell> Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13.0-18-g7b03ea5
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22:56:43 <Cheibriados> Gargoyle spell difficulties are affected differently by orcish ring mail vs dwarven ring mail <https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7655> by morik
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23:33:16 <|amethyst> 1learn add caster A little wheel.
23:33:27 <|amethyst> 1learn add castor A bean.
23:34:59 <Grunt> ??caster[4
23:35:00 <Henzell> caster[4/6]: <mong> 'caster' as in the cheap plastic wheels they put on crappy office furniture  <mikee_> caster = someone who makes molds of stuff
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23:36:54 <gammafunk> ??mage
23:36:55 <Henzell> caster[1/6]: only a couple people actually mean "character that casts spells" when they say this
23:36:59 <gammafunk> heh
23:37:11 <Grunt> ??battlemage
23:37:11 <Henzell> battlemage[1/9]: BATTLEMAGE
23:37:11 <gammafunk> Now, crawl uses the term 'mage' in the background selection screen
23:37:29 <gammafunk> Clearly then mage should not be ridiculed
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23:44:42 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-329-g7c54ee0 (34)
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