00:01:07 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2688-gfd9909a (34) 00:03:18 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:14 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2688-gfd9909a (34) 00:09:35 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:58 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:13:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2688-gfd9909a (34) 00:27:49 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:32:30 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:34:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:39:22 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:45 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:24 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:45:29 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2688-gfd9909a 00:45:44 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-2689-g2efa58e: Make rings and armour of see invis work for monsters. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2efa58e322f8 00:46:01 -!- Cunnus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:30 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:18 does that also let the player know about the SInv? 00:49:54 <|amethyst> no, other than the monster not having the "unaware" brand 00:50:57 couldn't the observant player notice that? shouldn't we therefore track that for them? 00:51:53 <|amethyst> maybe, but it would be a pain to track 00:52:13 <|amethyst> unless you wanted to just indicate everything's sinv status in xv or something 00:52:30 -!- tesudzi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:38 <|amethyst> in practice you can't tell until they're awake 00:52:59 <|amethyst> which is relevant for stabbers 00:53:12 no I just meant IDing the item 00:53:27 once the SInv effect has been observed 00:55:26 <|amethyst> perhaps, but I don't think we do much monster equipment ID of that sort 00:55:53 <|amethyst> also, that depends on whether the player knows the monster has or doesn't have innate SInv 00:56:13 <|amethyst> oh, right, that's in xv 00:59:16 <|amethyst> (but only based on the monster class, not equipment) 01:00:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:11 -!- dalord0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:01:17 <|amethyst> e.g. fire resistance also doesn't identify on monsters 01:01:31 -!- Smallinsect has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0/20130730113002]] 01:02:07 well that's a lot dicier isn't it? 01:02:39 <|amethyst> how so? It says "The orc resists" 01:02:42 oh. 01:03:09 <|amethyst> (but there could be temporary effects I guess) 01:07:36 <|amethyst> I hate it when I do that... accidentally went into wizmode in my open online game instead of the local debug game like I intended :) 01:08:09 darn 01:08:15 <|amethyst> and now that wizmode saves I couldn't server admin my way out of it 01:08:22 <|amethyst> not that I would, but :) 01:08:43 hmm? 01:08:49 what do you mean "now that wizmode saves"? 01:09:10 <|amethyst> entering wizmode saves the game, so you can't wizmode, gain information about the current level, then crash 01:09:25 oh 01:09:27 <|amethyst> or you can, but your save will still be wizmode 01:09:49 <|amethyst> %git 9d625d9 01:09:49 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-a0-2282-g9d625d9: Save the game immediately on entering wizmode, to prevent cheating. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d625d91ee00 01:09:51 that *is* a pretty easy thing to do, isn't it 01:10:11 <|amethyst> :) 01:10:22 however since you can run gdb you can turn it off again 01:10:46 <|amethyst> true, or I could edit the save 01:10:50 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:01 I have done this before locally 01:11:12 possibly for good reasons 01:11:35 <|amethyst> I have done similar things when editing user saves 01:11:58 <|amethyst> though usually it's just the level that needs to be fixed, and wizmode is stored only in you 01:12:23 <|amethyst> then -edit-save put and get are all that's needed 01:13:11 I mean like I wanted to see what things would look like if I weren't in wizmode 01:13:32 <|amethyst> ah, that too 01:15:02 <|amethyst> speaking of which, I would like to make (or see) some improvements to wizmode in 0.14 to better separate debugging from exploration from anti-permadeath 01:16:36 yeah, it might be nice to have a "no I don't want to die for the foreseeable future" option for instance ... 01:17:07 <|amethyst> I was thinking "don't let me cheat, except for avoiding death" 01:18:24 <|amethyst> and I think someone already suggested "turn off wizmode but leave it marked in the save file" 01:18:40 <|amethyst> so you can do e.g. what you used gdb for 01:18:56 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:19:25 <|amethyst> or set up a scenario and share the save (but then you'd need a count of how many times wizmode was used, not just the flag) 01:19:26 that wasn't the only reason I was using gdb, mind 01:24:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:53 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:17 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:37:57 -!- duckroller has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:56 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:58 x 01:41:01 oops 01:41:05 hi 01:49:55 -!- duckroller has quit [Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)] 01:52:07 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 01:54:38 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:41 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:05:26 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quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:40 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:49:24 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:24 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:44 -!- oneeyedjack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:01:02 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:30 -!- Grimalkin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:10:42 -!- Rebenga has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:42 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:31 -!- nookro has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:16:02 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:48 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:18:00 -!- Grimalkin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:24 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:20:43 -!- indspenc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:54 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:32 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:09 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:25 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:23 -!- indspenc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:23 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:52 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:17 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:06 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:01 -!- radinms has quit [] 08:44:30 -!- axujen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:51:04 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:02:53 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:03 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:35 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:05:54 Revert "Revert "Remove player clinging"." by chris 09:06:29 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:12 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:20 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:05 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:37 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:13:25 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17:21 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:21 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:40 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:18:45 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:21 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:20:57 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:53 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:24 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:57 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:42 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:27:37 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:47 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:46 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:50 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:59 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:59 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:17 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:04 hi 09:35:04 ChrisOelmueller: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:35:16 uhm that was not planned 09:35:19 !messages 09:35:23 (1/1) |amethyst said (1d 23h 29m ago): ISTR you made patch to reduce item destruction based on dealt vs received damage... I can't seem to find it now 09:36:06 ChrisOelmueller: Grunt also made one 09:37:21 !tell |amethyst re:destruction i indeed did, http://bpaste.net/show/2yCKYd95UVpkqSc8z51e/ - there have not been exhaustive tests with *all* possible sources yet, i think swapping in rC or rF for that yaktaur band is fine to reduce destruction chance (as this check happens after resistances are applied) 09:37:22 ChrisOelmueller: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 09:37:30 alefury: thanks but i'm not very interested in that one 09:37:45 my actual two lines of fame were: 09:37:52 so i've been thinking for about an hour about discussing this without going ad hominem 09:37:55 the result is: what the fucking fuck is wrong with you, kilobyte 09:38:30 what does kilobyte have to do with item destruction? 09:38:43 hmm, maybe not the best question 09:38:43 nothing, it's about him and player clinging 09:38:49 ah 09:39:13 well, i agree that consistency is generally good 09:39:39 id prefer nobody having clinging, because i dont think the mechanic works well for either 09:40:06 but i dont really mind it being there, or just being there for players or monsters 09:40:11 because it doesnt do anything 09:40:17 and i dont have to work with the code 09:40:38 i don't either, actually, but i am currently considering murder irl because of the way kilobyte handles all of this 09:40:55 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:41:01 and i really wonder who of us two will turn out to be more stubborn in the end 09:41:11 murder is bad 09:41:17 really bad 09:42:51 oh let me guess he's not even in poland right now... maybe i'll have to wait for a few days then 09:46:27 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:49:24 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:16 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:55:18 -!- SkaryMonk1 has left ##crawl-dev 10:02:35 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:05:13 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:28 -!- agolden has quit [Client Quit] 10:18:30 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:41 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 10:23:30 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:24:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:25:13 -!- Aidenn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:51 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:53 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:35 -!- Aidenn has quit [Changing host] 10:44:47 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:13 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:14 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48:20 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:47 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:33 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:51:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:41 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:54:35 -!- ZRN_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:58:11 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 11:00:22 -!- tani has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:02:00 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:03:09 Rod of striking by chris 11:03:44 the actual bug there: "exists." 11:03:54 -!- tesudzi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:06:33 maybe i should just post a patch removing half of current rods and see how that goes instead... 11:06:38 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:44 -!- maha_ is now known as maha 11:07:57 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 11:08:17 -!- duckroller has quit [Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)] 11:09:51 * geekosaur wonders what happened to the rod branch 11:10:36 (removed a bunch of rods, came up with new mechanics for the ones that remained to try to make them usefulish --- thought rod of striking got completely reworked to try to make it useful?) 11:11:02 yes it did some unrelated stuff in it last i know 11:11:07 like fixing clouds 11:12:01 would you mind asking Grunt about that stuff? 11:12:55 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:01 <|amethyst> %git rod_rework 11:16:01 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-1360-g0a6f3db: Experimental cloud types for the rod of clouds. 10(2 months ago, 3 files, 133+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a6f3db3d5ff 11:16:01 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:16:06 <|amethyst> %git rod_rework^ 11:16:07 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-1359-g59d031e: Rod of clouds. 10(3 months ago, 13 files, 138+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59d031eb26c9 11:16:20 so far the only rebase trouble seems to be the changed names inbetween 11:16:38 (from destruction[foo] to foo-y destruction) 11:16:48 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 11:17:05 <|amethyst> there was another branch 11:17:09 <|amethyst> the one with cranking 11:17:16 well let's not talk about that shall we 11:18:03 <|amethyst> %git evoker-playstyle 11:18:04 07mumra02 * 0.13-a0-1733-gbb46447: Make rods crankable from inventory 10(8 weeks ago, 7 files, 37+ 85-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb46447e9014 11:18:51 of all balance and other problems with rods, this tries to fix the one that doesn't exist 11:20:15 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:15 <|amethyst> there are a few other things in that branch, though 11:20:22 yes, i'm aware 11:20:33 <|amethyst> %git aa429e4e 11:20:34 07mumra02 * 0.13-a0-1880-gaa429e4: Convert Tome of Destruction to Shard of Destruction 10(9 weeks ago, 26 files, 78+ 113-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa429e4ee561 11:20:39 was commenting on the rod changes in that branch specifically 11:20:49 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: what about the new rods in the branch? 11:21:01 does "no" count as answer 11:21:09 <|amethyst> :) 11:21:30 or maybe "i'd rather have `destruction` branch merged than those rods" 11:21:40 <|amethyst> ouch 11:25:29 as for some actual arguments, the rod equivalent of miscasting shouldn't be a new mechanic (with or without clunky interface) and much rather an increased amount of randomness or other rod-spell-inherent drawbacks 11:25:44 of course that does include the premise that rods shouldn't just be spells you can cast under trog 11:25:45 -!- slifty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:26:00 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:27:23 in that sense, for instance \inaccuracy tries to balance its power with the chance of missing (not claiming it works perfectly) 11:27:37 throwing out random cloud types like that new rod does also works for me 11:29:42 mm did i ever report how `\` key on autopickup menu does not do the group toggle 11:29:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:32:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:22 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:33:01 probably not worth a ticket 11:33:10 as there's just no way of fixing 11:34:14 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: other than moving rods to a different character maybe 11:34:30 well remember when they were on | ... 11:34:48 apparently current rods are just a single line in "misc" anyways 11:35:04 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: re your patch, I worry about also making elemental resistance block destruction 11:35:22 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:45 how's that different from swapping in conservation for instance currently? 11:36:22 <|amethyst> not that, just that with both rF+++ and cons you're cutting the chance to something like 1% 11:36:32 <|amethyst> ??conservation 11:36:32 conservation[1/2]: Provides a 90% save for items to resist attacks that would otherwise destroy them. Cold would destroy potions, fire would destroy scrolls, and spores would destroy food. Found on amulets of conservation and cloaks of preservation, which don't stack with each other. If you want acid protection, try {resist corrosion} or {preservation} instead. 11:36:36 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:45 <|amethyst> and rF+++ is "as good as" cons 11:37:11 granted i didn't test with conservation on 11:37:14 <|amethyst> I guess my worry is that it makes cons less useful 11:37:57 <|amethyst> since the elemental resists are more useful than cons; OTOH, it does take 1.5 to three slots to get to rF+++ from rF0 11:38:02 all the better in my book, it's not an exciting ego (and my patch only does beams) 11:39:25 there's a point to be raised for the ds mutation however 11:39:42 <|amethyst> and LO 11:39:52 not worried about races that don't exist 11:39:55 <|amethyst> Djinn are also problematic, but that wouldn't be the first time 11:39:57 not worried about races that don't exist 11:39:59 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:40:13 well Dj certainly will never exist, LO unfortunately might 11:40:26 but those have other scroll-related issues anyways 11:41:50 oh no are we seriously considering tying resistances to conservation 11:41:56 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:25 (my general problem with item destruction largely is elemental beams which don't do a whole lot of damage but destroy half of tavern players' inventories apparently) 11:42:52 arrows and bolts are way worse 11:42:57 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:59 unless you're including them in that term? 11:42:59 that is what i mean 11:43:01 yes 11:43:05 ok then 11:43:05 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 11:44:23 <|amethyst> any particular elemental beams? 11:45:26 ranged fire/cold attacks and fire/cold beam spells 11:45:29 so not very particular 11:45:36 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 11:46:26 <|amethyst> I ask because explosions and penetrating beams have higher chance than others 11:46:49 fireballs and sticky flame are awful too 11:46:56 but i have no idea what you're actually discussing 11:47:02 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:03 the problem with monster fireball most decidedly is not the item destruction 11:47:12 sticky flame just sucks but i'm fine with that 11:47:37 what is the problem with monster fireball 11:47:43 it does approx. 200000 damage 11:47:46 and hits 100% 11:47:49 that is not a problem 11:48:56 |amethyst: early OrWi throwing flame/frost at me is bad, so are *taur bands, all in all i guess i'm fine with explosions being bad (hence not changing cloud behavior from my side) 11:49:11 -!- Zermako has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:49:14 -!- Zermak is now known as Zermako 11:50:20 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 11:50:24 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:10 <|amethyst> player fireball is max (10 + pow/2), monster is max 21 + pow*3/10 but ISTR monster spell power is funny 11:52:24 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 11:52:38 <|amethyst> as far as the patch goes, maybe the beam should track how much was prevented by AC specifically, and we should use that as the numerator 11:52:57 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:18 well there's a point in time where `hurted` is not affected by resistances yet 11:55:38 but it looked like an awkward place to add more stuff to 11:55:42 so i didn't :o 12:03:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-2690-g97dada4: Identify scrolls of amnesia if read with no spells memorised 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97dada43bd2e 12:03:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-2691-g38bf203: Allow selecting a weapon when reading ?vorpalise 10(53 minutes ago, 2 files, 28+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38bf203fdfce 12:03:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-2692-gd37f1c3: Don't allow cancelling the refrigeration effect from ?vorpalise 10(34 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d37f1c3cff82 12:03:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.13-a0-2693-g56e1ae0: Fix ?vorpalisation and the Blade card taking less time when swapping weapons 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56e1ae0089cc 12:05:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2689-g2efa58e (34) 12:09:26 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:01 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:01 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 12:17:08 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:17:20 -!- agolden has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:17 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:11 MarvinPA: <3 12:20:18 rip id minigame, you were so exciting 12:20:23 MarvinPA: does it work right wrt unided vorpalisation? (if you cancel the scroll should be gone) 12:20:55 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:06 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: would you rather I apply your patch as is and make my revisions in another commit; or amend yours? 12:23:06 i suppose they won't look alike much after amending, so how about just not applying mine at all 12:23:53 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:15 <|amethyst> the formula is the same and in the same place; I just took captured "preac" and "postac" damage 12:24:46 <|amethyst> (preac rather than the original roll so that dmg_funcs don't make the AC fraction look smaller than it really is) 12:24:47 oh okay, then the former :) 12:25:25 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:26:11 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:40:06 03ChrisOelmueller02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.13-a0-2694-ge97dbc3: Reduce item destruction chance for AC characters 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e97dbc312689 12:40:06 03|amethyst02 07* 0.13-a0-2695-g02e9c6e: Don't let resists reduce item destruction chance. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=02e9c6e2055b 12:40:38 -!- maha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:38 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:44 -!- maha___ is now known as maha 12:41:02 -!- maha__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:13 yay, thanks |amethyst (now to disappear again so i don't have to handle reactions) 12:43:59 that's why i didn't become a chemist 12:44:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:45:18 i think dealing with crawl development puts you in contact with more explosive stuff than chemists even have researched 12:45:55 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:46:22 that is... unlikely 12:47:07 there are some funny articles about explosive substances by some chemist dude 12:47:13 actually very nice to read 12:48:18 IIRC the best one actually wasnt about something explosive, but about something that makes other things (just about all other things) burn 12:48:27 rapidly 12:50:58 ChrisOelmueller: usually crawl doesn't cause your computer to explode or anything 12:51:20 well you can imagine my reacting to player clinging returning 12:51:29 i'm happy i found another laptop this fast 12:55:18 Rod of Striking appears in V screen by Whales 12:56:27 -!- BrocoLee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:56:56 another striking bug 12:56:59 when will it be removeddddddd 12:57:19 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:10 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 13:00:42 it was close 13:00:44 but now, never 13:02:40 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 22.0/20130626043228]] 13:03:29 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:35 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:37 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:58 hey i was skimming the irc log and i want to see that article alefury mentioned about things exploding 13:09:42 ...for scientific and non-incriminating purposes 13:10:04 hey evilmike i was just pondering whether to pester you or continue leading a life as not-happy naga, dying on d:2 13:10:24 feel free to pester 13:10:28 basically, https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7441 13:11:07 evilmike: aren't you the guy behind arenasprint 13:11:16 yes 13:11:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:21 "no that's mikee_" 13:11:55 Well it'd be nice with some scrolls of vorpalise weapon stuffed in there somewhere as a moneysink. 13:12:08 hmm I can see the reason for not placing jiyva altars in early D. I care more about placing 4 jellies on d:2 though 13:12:16 Since far enough into the game you'll have a ton of money with nothing to spend it on. 13:12:28 So you might as well try and get some funny brands on your weapon. 13:13:02 i have a whole pile of other changes i want to make to that map, i'll add it to the list 13:13:09 <|amethyst> evilmike: btw, I don't know how much vault review you're doing these days, but Marbit came by asking for feedback on https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7372 13:13:13 gud 13:13:46 evilmike: indeed there's two problems, and the "very early jiyva altar" as mentioned would be better off with it moved to like d:10 onwards - just to clarify you like the "too many jellies way too early" part? 13:15:12 A jelly on D:2 is already fairly tough, 4 is excessive if it's just in the open 13:15:12 is it possible to reject vaults these days based on whether or not their lua functions contain "grunt"..... 13:15:54 evilmike: alright so i misunderstood, and yeah that's how i feel too 13:17:55 i just dont understand what picking up a coin has to do with xom there... 13:19:59 -!- Elkan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:08 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:22:24 <|amethyst> evilmike: yeah, flavourwise it doesn't seem to really fit Xom 13:22:40 <|amethyst> evilmike: but also I worry that the reward might be too good for the depth 13:22:48 also (haven't looked in game), reading this makes me thing the probability of real randarts is too high, yes 13:23:22 okay not sure i get all of it but am tempted to comment "why" again 13:23:52 there are more than enough xom mimic vaults already imo 13:23:58 and there's also a gamble vault for nemelex 13:24:22 yeah i cant see that one fitting much 13:26:01 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:15 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:26 -!- Gotham_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:42 -!- Gotham has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:33:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:55 !seen ChrisOelmueller 13:33:56 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:33:56 I last saw ChrisOelmueller at Wed Aug 14 18:23:58 2013 UTC (9m 58s ago) saying 'and there's also a gamble vault for nemelex' on ##crawl-dev. 13:34:01 !messages 13:34:03 (1/2) bh said (1w 3d 22h 11m 4s ago): I saw your tavern post on chunks. If you _were_ designing a roguelike from scratch what would it look like? 13:34:07 !messages 13:34:08 (1/1) bh said (1d 13h 7m 10s ago): what do you mean by randgods being like portals? 13:34:20 !seen bh 13:34:20 I last saw bh at Wed Aug 14 03:38:00 2013 UTC (14h 56m 20s ago) quitting with message 'Client Quit'. 13:35:22 dpeg: hi 13:35:50 ChrisOelmueller: your Mantis patches come without any explanation. What is the reverting^2 business? 13:35:57 hi dpeg 13:35:58 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:36:02 !messages 13:36:02 (1/1) dpeg said (1w 3d 22h 4m 28s ago): Many thanks for standing both strongly and civilised in the silly demigod thread! It always hurts a bit when they call names but I think we handled it alright. Thx! 13:36:13 the explanation is in the commit message, isn't it? 13:36:26 yes usually that's where i put them 13:36:38 -!- maha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:14 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37:17 mumra: yes, many thanks! The thread is closed now, thanks to njvack. 13:37:37 devs should be mods of the game design forum and should censor the hell out of it imo 13:37:50 ChrisOelmueller: anyway, I find it strange (and a bit offensive) to offer a patch that reverts something which just recently has been reverted before, including c-r-d mail. 13:37:59 * SamB imagines running around with buckets of black paint 13:38:02 dpeg: noted (and wrong) 13:38:09 well, i was thinking more like, delete off topic stuff 13:38:21 <|amethyst> dpeg: Not sure if you followed the commits: MarvinPA removed player clinging for bugginess (etc); kilobyte removed monster clinging for consistency; galehar restored monster clinging; then kilobyte restored player clinging 13:38:36 ChrisOelmueller: what is wrong? I may have easily missed something... it just looked a bit weird to ne. 13:38:39 basically kilobyte was wrong twice for the worst possible reason 13:38:42 evilmike: can I help it if I get redaction and censorship mixed up sometimes? 13:38:56 and i'm kind of tired of explaining this to him whenever he does it yet again 13:39:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: which seems like it introduced some tension between galehar and MarvinPA despite the fact that I think both of them were okay with the "monster but not player clinging" solution 13:39:13 so in the end offensive patches on mantis are my preferred way of handling that frustration 13:39:22 so how about player hydra-heads 13:39:23 hm, in the worst case, we lose two devs over this :( 13:39:27 i don't have any problem with anything galehar's done 13:39:32 and yes |amethyst is way better at explaining things than i am, as always 13:39:56 dpeg: no problem! i've been away a lot and haven't had much dev time lately unfortunately :( 13:39:57 i have a problem with reverting reverts, because i'd prefer internet drama stays out of the git repo 13:39:59 if monsters have them players should be able to have them too, right? 13:40:03 <+evilmike> devs should be mods of the game design forum and should censor the hell out of it imo 13:40:05 settle things in a civilized discussion, then commit 13:40:10 how about removing GDD period 13:40:17 i'd be fine with that, yes 13:40:32 kind of too late now (or to ask kilobyte to join that movement) 13:40:34 absolutego: no 13:40:59 * dpeg wonders if Eino has any clue what he triggered :) 13:41:10 suit yourself, i guess 13:41:19 ChrisOelmueller: you're not going to to fix a problem by making it worse 13:41:19 wrong smiley there fwiw :) 13:41:20 but at least it should have some degree of moderation 13:41:39 evilmike: i wonder whether *anyone* thinks the current 1kb-induced state is optimal, or even good 13:41:42 the problem with gdd is off topic stuff. i dont care about bad ideas 13:42:06 maybe player clinging should exist but it obviously needs to be buggy only insofar as e.g. spider form is inherently buggy 13:42:13 the drama unfolding is kilobyte ignoring the consensus reached on c-r-d 13:42:14 optimal? I would never describe anything design-related that way, it doesn't work like that 13:42:31 as for clinging, I'm neither for nor against it, I don't like the bugs, but bugs are fixable 13:42:32 evilmike: why not 13:42:33 -!- Cronoth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:42:40 well optimal given the intermediate states 13:42:42 I mean why not use the word "optimal" 13:43:03 maybe nothing ever is going to actually be optimal but you can certainly talk about how non-optimal various states are 13:43:42 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:44:47 SamB: "optimal" requires a metric 13:45:21 I think it's more like, the way there are bugs with clinging isn't optimal. But in terms of game design, I can't really judge "clinging" that way 13:46:31 -!- Cronoth_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:46:35 In hindsight, I'd say that clinging is probably too much effort for to little gain. But now that it's there, I see no reason not to use it (and it can be made more relevant, if we want) 13:47:06 well it's there, and bugged, and can kill players 13:47:12 that is kind of worth mentioning 13:47:23 SamB: this is like saying "this painting is optimal" or "this menuett is optimal" -- make little sense 13:47:27 yes, being able to cause players to die improperly is bad 13:47:41 well, monster clinging is alright? 13:47:46 levitation was already removed for just being a worse version of flight, and clinging is more complicated, less useful and much rarer than levitation was 13:48:08 monsters dying isn't really that bad, so i'm fine with it existing (even if others don't like the random water in Spider) 13:48:52 so what is the nature of the bugs anyway? 13:49:33 Isn't there an issue with opening a door, falling off and drowning? 13:49:33 SamB: well, "bug free" and "feature complete" are good notions 13:50:08 ok, so the point is that player clinging is too buggy and the question is whether we can have monster clinging without player clinging? 13:50:11 dpeg: I'm not sure it makes sense to say that something like that *is* optimal, but you can reasonably say that it *isn't* 13:50:12 <|amethyst> SamB: #7454 (clinging players can be trampled into deep water and drown), #7453 (Clinging while confused allows stepping into deep water) 13:50:29 also there is a whole lot of fun with clinging and abyss, even now that liquids there are not as prominent 13:50:37 <|amethyst> SamB: also, autotravel doesn't know about clinging (not that that's relevant now, because spider form is temporary) 13:50:44 SamB: sure, but it is a much more personal decision. 13:50:53 <|amethyst> #6997 "When a transformation ends, armour is still melded when falling off a wall" 13:51:29 <|amethyst> and #5328, but that might not be a real bug (the player was flying) 13:51:47 !seen kilobyte 13:51:48 I last saw kilobyte at Mon Aug 12 00:12:38 2013 UTC (2d 18h 39m 10s ago) saying 'just like all other altars :)' on ##crawl-dev. 13:52:27 by the way, has there been much in the way of 0.13 release planning yet? 13:52:34 isn't kilobyte at debconf right now 13:53:02 i still play crawl offline, my impression right now is, there are a couple things which should probably be held back from the release, at least in the current state 13:53:06 evilmike: is "much" an euphemism for "anything"? :) 13:53:09 heh 13:53:30 evilmike: tell us which -- this will help 13:55:13 djinn and lava orcs i would guess 13:55:31 i think the forest branch still has potential, but crypt is in much better shape right now. i like the new layout work, but it's worth taking another look at the weights (for old and new), and i don't like layout_waterfall for some reason. also, some stuff could just be retired I think. 13:55:54 as for the new races, i dont like djinn, and i think lava orcs have potential but need a complete reworking of how temperature works 13:55:55 (or i would add them to the list, otherwise) 13:56:23 one new species for 0.13 sounds great to me 13:56:28 <|amethyst> Eronarn has a patch for temperature 13:56:43 for monsters, most of the new stuff is good, but there's a lot of summoning right now and too much of it is spammy 13:56:45 unfortunately, I cannot play gargoyles until I'm over my OpMo obsession 13:56:50 <|amethyst> but it's mixed in with a questionable refactoring and neither he nor I have time to sort it out 13:57:07 for vaults, there are a lot of encompass vaults right now for D, and i'd either lower the weights for all of them, or add a uniq_encompass flag that means you can only get 1 per game 13:57:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:58 that's... most of my list anyway. the stuff about monsters is too vague right now 13:58:06 <|amethyst> evilmike: D:$ encompass vaults were reduced in weight recently, but I supposed you're talking more general than that 13:58:07 evilmike: thank you! 13:58:14 |amethyst: yes I mean all of D 13:58:15 <|amethyst> s/supposed/suppose/ 13:58:21 uniq_encompass sounds good, doesn't it? 13:58:36 <|amethyst> maybe some of the encompass vaults could become portal vaults? 13:58:41 maybe a bit hacky, considering we already have ORIENT: encompass 13:58:47 maybe some of the encompass vaults could become removed 13:58:48 that too, but this is not 0.13 stuff, I think 13:58:53 uniq_d_encompass 13:58:55 i dunno if they have a coherent theme for a portal vault 13:59:05 I thought it was a lethe joke 13:59:13 ChrisOelmueller: if you come up with a list of candidates... 13:59:14 -!- mumra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:28 dpeg: unfortunately i'm not ready for that much drama :( 13:59:29 "box_level_dp" 13:59:36 but my list so far is: profane_halls 13:59:40 "hangedman_[p 13:59:41 oh 14:00:00 uhm runt_runaround 14:00:03 i was saying earlier, when i have the time (sometime early-mid 2014 i'd guess) i'd like to go through all of the vaults in crawl and purge a lot of subpar stuff 14:00:03 *grunt 14:00:10 evilmike: <3 14:00:24 <|amethyst> dpeg: as for timing: probably we need to have a feature freeze fairly soon if we hope to release by October 14:00:28 Hmm, a portal vault that mixes encompass vaults 14:00:33 well the issue is, as always, what does "subpar" mean 14:00:42 hangedgrunt_profane_pleasuredromes 14:00:49 |amethyst: yes, but I am not in a position to push things :( 14:00:49 i like pleasuredromes when i played it 14:01:05 i dont like those ones which are just some geometric shape with monsters scattered in it 14:01:10 absolutego: this is why it is good if one person with a clue does it -- like evilmike 14:01:37 Marginally more seriously, late-D twisty_little_passages doesn't seem very fun 14:01:44 i have no idea where evilmike stands re: vaults 14:01:50 Since it seems the "optimal" strategy is to lure everyone around those corners 14:01:55 btw, I never got around to suggesting vertical vaults 14:01:55 but on the other hand he made the quicksilver dragon lava vault right 14:02:00 heh heh 14:02:04 maybe now is not the ideal time to do so 14:02:07 ??evilmike[3] 14:02:07 evilmike[3/3]: -- Just die already! 14:02:35 i saw a player who'd never seen a quicksilver dragon have his best character to date die to that vault 14:02:46 he was very gracious 14:02:48 unlike some people, i'm ok with occasionally having something silly, or a fancy altar vault that scripts something, especially if it involves burning people alive 14:02:49 I have full trust in evilmike. He really knows his vaults. 14:02:57 evilmike: hehe 14:03:01 however, i dont like stuff which is generally just boring for me to play 14:03:13 dpeg: so how about this jiyva altar thing speaking of vaults 14:03:14 well yes, that's also what i dislike the most 14:03:28 which is why i find some late D encompass vaults unbearable 14:03:29 ChrisOelmueller: I am ok with early jiyva altars, I am not ok with too many jellies on D:2 14:03:32 I think they are different issues 14:03:36 evilmike: back when I did that vault reviewing thing, my main goals were: no ASCII art; sufficient randomisation. But standards have gone up a lot since then. 14:03:45 ChrisOelmueller: and overall I don't have a real opinion on the former 14:04:00 yeah, there's a lot more content, and dcss can afford higher standards now 14:04:01 sufficient randomization would rather help with twisty_little_passages and runaround 14:04:13 ChrisOelmueller: why not link jelly number to depth? It is really easy to do! 14:04:29 i'm linking the number to 0 14:04:48 * dpeg fails to see how a single jelly can be a problem. 14:04:55 jellykiting 14:04:59 naga 14:05:00 that's how 14:05:02 one jelly on d:2 for a slow race? 14:05:09 speaking of no ascii art 14:05:16 also the fact that kiting it with stones is optimal 14:05:22 I have no idea if you guys are joking or trolling, tbh. 14:05:22 something about a certain recent crypt vault 14:05:28 oh, I dont like that one either 14:05:30 the skull one right? 14:05:32 yes 14:05:35 deaths_head 14:05:43 i havent actually played it, it's just a gut reaction atm 14:05:51 dpeg: i'm not, at least 14:05:59 i don't know how it plays but in ascii art terms it's not very subtle 14:06:27 if it plays well i'm fine with it, mostly 14:06:29 dpeg: 8+7d3 damage is not fun, that's a halberd gnoll on steroids 14:06:37 kind of annoyed grunt got around to fixing it before I did because grunt did trim down the massive numbers of skeletal warriors and flying skulls in it 14:06:37 ChrisOelmueller: jellies are a standard Crawl monster. How can a single jelly be a problem on a level where it could spawn naturally?? 14:06:48 didn't trim down the 14:06:54 what even are the chances of a jelly on d:2 14:07:09 also very symmetrical but whatever 14:07:09 dpeg: lots of things that can spawn naturally can be a problem 14:07:14 dpeg: i lost a naga to a d:2 altar with multiple jellies yesterday. and i always, always kite jellies with stones if i'm not playing a conjurer-type, which i rarely do 14:07:30 i really don't see how you can see these complaints as "trolling" 14:07:30 a single jelly on d:2 is not a problem imo 14:07:37 a jelly anywhere is 14:07:42 because they are speed 9 14:07:45 absolutego: can you please stop it? 14:07:48 but that's another matter 14:07:49 i think they are speed 10 14:07:53 stop, what? 14:07:53 jelly (04J) | Spd: 9 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-30 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 808(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 22 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 14:07:53 %??jelly 14:07:57 evilmike: not yet, but they will be 14:08:00 jesus, what did i say? 14:08:01 well that's still faster than 8 14:08:04 no, that was just chrisoelmueller's patch 14:08:08 ok 14:08:09 evilmike: commit messages welcome, that's all that's missing 14:08:17 absolutego: it's more about the tone rather than what you're saying 14:08:31 maybe being accused of trolling didn't help the tone 14:08:35 ChrisOelmueller: we agree that there is some D level at which a jelly is not out of place, right? What is it, in your opinion? D:4,5,6? 14:08:36 nope 14:09:00 jelly (04J) | Spd: 9 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-30 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 808(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 22 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 14:09:00 %?? jelly 14:09:00 ... 14:09:11 dpeg: i'd be fine with d:5 and the altar 14:09:23 ChrisOelmueller: I guess D:5 and single jelly? 14:09:30 yes 14:09:40 ChrisOelmueller: and maybe D:7 and (chance for) second jelly? 14:09:44 oh, my client got stuck 14:10:10 btw, I like speed ten jellies ... but couldn't we compensate by less damage? 14:10:10 just use oozes as additional flavour filler 14:10:19 dpeg: sounds kind of fine, and yes the lower damage is what i did 14:10:24 tenofswords: yes, always four monsters, number of jellies to depend on depth 14:10:31 ChrisOelmueller: alright, that sounds great! 14:10:35 i also had pondered reducing the acid damage to 7d2 but that was an ugly special case in-code 14:10:42 I'll do the change right now. 14:10:47 because af_acid doesn't do anything with power, is just a flat 7d3 14:10:51 royal jelly (08J) | Spd: 14 | HD: 21 | HP: 230 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 5008(acid:7d3), 3008(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(196), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 14176 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 14:10:51 %??the royal jelly 14:11:00 yeah acid is the weirdest damage type 14:11:00 ??acid 14:11:01 acid[1/3]: Acidic attacks and defenses come from many Js, plus spiny worms, yellow draconians, and oklob plants. In addition to damaging you, they reduce the +s of weapons (to-dam only) and armour. Items are immune if the relevant plus is +5 or better, or if the item is an artefact. +4 or dwarven is good enough outside Slime. See also {resist corrosion}. 14:11:03 also see: 14:11:05 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 560 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 14:11:05 %??oklob plant 14:11:11 ??acid[2 14:11:11 acid[2/3]: If an item is not immune: having resist corrosion saves the item 9 times out of 10. Failing that, dwarven items and crystal plate mail save 4 times out of 5. Failing that, the item's plus (from 0 to 4, positive or negative) will cause it to save 6%, 18%, 34%, 58%, or 98% of the time. 14:11:24 ??acid[3 14:11:24 spiny worm (09w) | Spd: 8 | HD: 12 | HP: 50-86 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 3208(acid:7d3) | Res: 06magic(48), 08acid+++ | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 485 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 14:11:24 %??spiny worm 14:11:25 acid[3/3]: Acid damage increases for each unequipped armour slot (50% chance if wearing a cloak). 14:11:33 evilmike: that formula must have sprung right out of Linley's drunken head :) 14:11:41 Hmm 14:11:42 oh good I was wondering when spiny worms would get that 14:11:57 they still don't indicate the poison 14:12:01 should this patch I'll never complete still revamp lemuel_worms to not use spinies as a threat 14:12:03 because that's just yet another special case 14:12:07 It's special cased, isn't it? 14:12:12 all of it, yes 14:12:14 clearly a chei problem 14:12:20 clearly. :) 14:12:37 Why do they even have acidic attacks? 14:12:52 because they are made that way 14:12:55 case AF_ACID: 14:12:55 if (attacker->type == MONS_SPINY_WORM) 14:12:55 defender->poison(attacker, 2 + random2(4)); 14:13:01 that's the exact code 14:13:26 and i couldn't bear adding another check for mons_jelly there. :( 14:13:28 nice, it doesnt even care about existing poison melee types 14:13:31 yea 14:13:50