00:01:57 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:03:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:04:06 -!- reaver_ is now known as reaver 00:05:43 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2474-g552a472 (34) 00:05:58 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-2474-g552a472 (34) 00:06:39 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:08:46 -!- anidude has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:33 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:20:45 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:07 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:41 -!- t4nk338 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:29:37 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:48 -!- MP is now known as Guest65912 00:39:02 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:40 -!- myrmidette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:51:39 -!- JohnQuixote has quit [Quit: JohnQuixote] 00:55:33 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:59:36 -!- Guest65912 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:51 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: six40sword] 01:05:02 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:05:14 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 01:06:27 Passive Ballists ignored by Autoattack and spell targeting by XuaXua 01:16:12 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:51 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:33 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:39 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:45 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: six40sword] 01:26:53 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:28:53 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:29:49 -!- reaver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:31:55 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:10 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:29 Erm, why does crawl encounter errors during startup on CSZO? buggy flails and ebony caskets 01:41:58 kryft: I'm on cszo webtiles and I don't have that problem. Crate had it on cao earlier. 01:42:06 reaver: Ok 01:42:21 The game did start seemingly normally after that, so maybe it doesn't matter 01:44:26 it seems like there's been a similar issue on webtiles though. getting a blank screen instead of the splash screen on loading 01:46:23 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:35 -!- ELRanger has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:47:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:50:22 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:48 -!- us17 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:44 Game crashes instantly when loading save game by dazzle 02:04:19 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:13 -!- Wahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:06:32 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: six40sword] 02:13:23 -!- Aidenn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:08 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:48 -!- Aidenn has quit [Changing host] 02:17:57 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23:52 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 02:31:21 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 02:46:47 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:08 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:58:12 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz. 123456890] 03:01:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:02:07 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:45 -!- Carrotz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:08:06 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:09:53 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:15 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15:16 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:20:40 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:04 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:22:55 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:32:27 -!- Rycklaryybbe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:37:29 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:02 -!- reaver has quit [] 03:48:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:26 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:33 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:00:47 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:02:22 -!- agolden has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:13 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 04:20:02 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:24:25 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:07 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:45 -!- agolden has quit [Client Quit] 04:34:09 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:38:04 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:09 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:57:21 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:59:13 -!- kait_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:39 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 05:08:13 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:10:44 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:35 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:47 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: This is not a desk. It is not being flipped.] 05:14:14 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:24 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 05:15:42 -!- moxian_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:14 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:14 -!- Duralumin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:17 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:19:21 -!- ZebTM has quit [] 05:21:41 -!- Comradin_ is now known as Comradin 05:28:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:35 -!- Guest65912 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:48 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:34:42 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:01 -!- Vizer__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:16 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:43:30 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:31 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:02 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:54:45 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:03:02 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:14 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:16 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:36 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:13 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:46 -!- moxian_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:50 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:23:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 06:28:28 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:31:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:14 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:43:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:26 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:49:26 wtf? Warning: Crawl encountered errors during startup: 06:49:26 Bad name for item name cache: buggy flail 06:49:26 Bad name for item name cache: buggy ebony casket 06:55:54 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:13 -!- Wehk has left ##crawl-dev 07:01:19 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:05:41 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 07:12:19 -!- Lumpydoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:18:02 -!- Guest65912 is now known as magicpoints 07:19:31 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:33:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:10 -!- ZebTM has quit [] 07:35:22 some interesting points in here: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8705 07:35:23 alefury: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:35:28 !messages 07:35:29 (1/1) mumra said (18h 47m 48s ago): the only thing that actually seems bad about current item destruction is that sometimes you can lose strategic items, and there's a better way to fix that... 07:37:32 mumra___: uh, what? 07:38:18 the bad part are the things you have to do to avoid item destruction 07:38:19 crate_crawl is p.good imo 07:38:40 "the only thing" 07:38:42 i mean 07:38:47 i don't know what to say anymore 07:39:04 ??? 07:40:06 what do you not understand 07:40:12 i'm reacting to that quote 07:40:19 which i do not agree with 07:40:20 i get it now, i thought you were referring to crate's post 07:40:32 oh, the first line was about that yes 07:43:52 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:05 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:15 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:15 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 07:56:06 yeah the perspective that what is bad about item destruction is that you could conceivably lose enchant scrolls seems pretty weird 07:57:14 i think item destruction would probably be okay if it weren't for sticky and fire crabs, or even if those effects were only some sort of extended only type thing 07:59:29 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:59:42 you're wrong 07:59:48 it'd be less annoying 07:59:51 it would not be ok 07:59:51 even then the whole point of item destruction is still to encourage annoying inventory management for no reason 08:00:00 which is super bad 08:00:02 and the fact that you lose strategic items is awful 08:00:14 it's just that there are other things that are wrong with it too 08:00:40 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 08:01:56 do you guys also think we should get rid of 52 slots? 08:02:06 because it seems like if you're not doing that there's still going to be stashing 08:03:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:57 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:05:01 -!- ahahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:06:26 it's not only stashing. there's also the matter of dropping items on a nearby cleared level or around a corner so that they won't get destroyed 08:07:21 sure, which is why i think massive destruction enemies like fire crabs or mottled dragons are a problem 08:07:42 i'm not convinced that behavior is as essential for something like a random centaur with a bow 08:08:06 its not about stashing, 52 slots and carrying capacity is fine. 08:08:26 well then there is some reason for the inventory management 08:08:32 it would seem 08:08:39 the fact remains that even if you have enough slots and carrying capacity, you still have to micromanage your scrolls and potions, either periodically dropping some spares, or fiddling with autopickup 08:09:21 i guess my argument is you have to do that anyway because you will eventually run out of slots 08:09:24 people argue that the point of this is to limit the number of consumables people have with them 08:09:37 52 slots is ok 08:09:38 which is a bit silly, because slots and carrying capacity exist 08:10:08 so if it's okay that you can't carry everything that you might conceivably want because of the slot limitation 08:10:19 carrying capacity is not so ok 08:10:21 meaning you have to drop stuff 08:10:21 but i don't hate it 08:10:33 what's the problem with having other reasons to drop stuff? 08:10:43 i agree that "oops, there's a mottled, time to back up and drop stuff" is lame 08:10:50 i personally do not do that every time i see a centaur with an ego bow 08:11:09 you cant 08:11:23 its fast, and you wont know its an ego bow until it starts shooting you with it 08:11:25 yes, i agree, sometimes you're just stuck 08:11:53 i guess you could confuse it and then retreat, or something 08:11:55 the scope of the item destruction that you're exposed to from things like that, however, seems totally reasonable to me and not a big deal 08:11:59 which would be a stupid thing to do 08:12:18 and since slots force inventory management (at least on me, anyway, given everything i might conceivably want to carry) 08:12:24 i don't actually notice much difference 08:12:46 try this mental exercise: imagine item destruction doesnt exist, and someone suggests adding it to crawl 08:13:04 you will soon come to the conclusion that its a really shitty feature to have 08:13:08 -!- KLANG has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:13:21 you could also say the same thing of inventory limits 08:13:26 no 08:13:28 no? 08:13:35 well, i could! 08:14:53 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:22 the slot limit only forces a decision about what to carry, not how much of it, while having many beneficial effects, including better interface and less clutter in the inventory 08:16:48 but why is the decision about what to carry intrinsically better than how much? 08:16:49 while the whole point of item destruction is to encourage degenerate play 08:17:09 there are certainly times where i think about how much curing i want to carry, balancing the risk of blowing it up vs. not having it if i run bad and need it 08:17:14 it only comes up when you pick up something you dont already have 08:17:41 the other comment i'd make is that i have less concern than many seem to about "optimality" 08:18:04 it doesn't necessarily bother me that i'm playing slightly suboptimally by carrying more shit than i need to and risk losing some of it 08:19:25 -!- Nivim has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:22:47 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:22:57 -!- whig has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:15 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:44 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:35:34 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:13 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:37:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:53 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:42 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:57 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:00:47 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:08:26 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:04 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:25:54 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:29:02 -!- Nightbeer is now known as Ladykiller 09:30:11 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:19 -!- Ladykiller is now known as Ladykiller69 09:30:49 !messages 09:30:58 No messages for TZer0. 09:35:09 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:35:42 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 09:39:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41:00 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:00 -!- ZebTM has quit [Client Quit] 09:53:02 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:54:40 -!- tatara has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:57:58 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:03:09 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:04:45 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 10:07:33 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:38 s-z.org has logged a netsplint. 10:13:53 -!- st_ has quit [] 10:14:59 Is a netsplint what you apply to fix a netsplit? 10:17:43 A net splint is when every person in a network splits into their own personal bubble. 10:17:48 Thus a net splintering. 10:18:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:04 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:27 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:33:46 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:59 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:15 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:46 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:50:16 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:05 -!- jjpalen has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:01:59 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:06:02 Nivim: welcome to the conference <_< 11:06:19 Grunt: As the other chat, not enough. 11:06:29 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:06:41 -!- absolutego has left ##crawl-dev 11:06:57 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:00 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:07:46 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:47 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:46 -!- NekoRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:15 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:32 s-z.org: Oh wait, you don't record the other chat "Is there anything resembling a conference where a bunch of devs and players get together to discuss stuff that happened in the past few months? Lot of the trunk changes feel like-[UNSTABLE_FOOTING]". "nivim: i think the continuous process of ranting in irc is supposed to approximate that". "ackack: Nope, not enough people are on at the same time 11:17:34 and not everyone reads and responds to the backlog." "well, there's also the dev wiki i guess" "or gdd in tavern" 11:17:48 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 11:22:03 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 11:23:21 -!- mindblank has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:23:46 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:02 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:02 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:57 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:31:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:31:58 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:34:23 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:34:48 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:48 -!- ackack has quit [Client Quit] 11:35:29 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 11:38:11 Nivim: this is a problem i've noticed before, discussion is fragmented over many channels 11:38:47 i'm not sure the best approach to take for this 11:39:51 the forum is an obvious place but there's too much noise ... maybe we should have a private dev board 11:41:19 Is it an advantage to have some conversations where no player can see or discuss them? 11:41:21 i do think it'd be nice if some big changes were discussed more beforehand; in a lot of cases the end result would be the same but it's more about keeping up communication 11:41:50 Nivim: well currently a lot of conversations happen where players *could* see or discuss them and yet they don't, so the net result is the same 11:42:23 -!- mumra___ is now known as mumra 11:42:36 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:01 Seems like it should still be publically viewable even if it isn't publically postable, just not to exclude any possible useful discussion. It's kinda nice to be able to search for responses when you need them. 11:43:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:43:16 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:24 perhaps, or from major decisions we can post summaries/announcements 11:43:36 (note: a certain amount of private discussion already _does_ take place) 11:43:50 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:55 (there's that super secret mailing list but it is almost never used for design discussion) 11:44:06 (and people send private emails etc.) 11:44:23 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:24 Yeah, it is difficult sometimes to rely on the commit summaries. (Theres PMs, a mailing list, what else?-- too slow.) 11:44:24 i don't understand how -dev and crd are insufficient 11:44:50 elliott: You already read my reasoning for it. 11:44:53 well, i've tried to discuss things on crd and received about 1 response 11:45:05 but a lot of people don't actually hang out here all the time 11:45:16 so discussion is fragmented and e.g. galehar was a bit upset by the clinging removal 11:45:32 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:15 elliott: also, there is actually a lot of noise in here 11:47:38 not all the time, but often there's a lot of volume to get through if you read the backlogs 11:48:05 i've barely been keeping up the last few weeks and been taken by surprise over some changes 11:49:31 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:45 imo, -dev is great for quickly sounding out an idea and getting that kind of feedback, and also for general dev help, but is very often not the ideal channel for proper reasoned debate 11:50:28 it seems like the problem is just getting people to use crd then, I don't see how a separate forum would ease that process 11:50:58 (Jokes, random opinions, anecdote, stuff that reads like jokes but isn't, command testing, game-playing questions that should be in ##crawl...) 11:51:51 Nivim: exactly 11:51:55 elliott: perhaps 11:52:24 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:39 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: oh god how do i internets] 11:52:42 -!- psuedo has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:50 well, theres the dev wiki 11:54:03 all people need to do is use it more 11:54:30 alefury: good for writing up detailed proposals, not really so good for discussion 11:54:34 in other news, i just wrote a bunch of stuff about why item destruction should be removed: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:start:item_destruction 11:54:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:55:22 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:46 -!- g057721 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:56:30 mumra: a dev section on the tavern might be nice, but one problem would be getting people to actually use it. besides, that would be one more discussion channel, when the problem seems to be that there are too many. 11:56:51 alefury: regarding your comments earlier, i basically think people worry too much about losing their tactical items (and yeah we should make AC count, and maybe reduce the frequency of item destroyers, but the only thing really bad _in priciple_ is losing strategic items) 11:57:25 when you're in a really tight spot, and you lose your last ?blink or !heal, and think "oh shit" ... that is a good effect 11:58:13 the main problems in my opinion are that players have to do a bunch of extra inventory management, and that the design goals of item destruction are pretty pointless 11:58:16 mumra: This is probably a stupid question; but is it really a bad idea to conflate strategic and tactical threats? Or is it just this instance? 11:58:34 but i dont need to say this here, because i wrote it down in detail on the dev wiki! 11:58:36 also ... i know people carry less to avoid so many being destroyed ... but actually it can still be good to carry more, because then you actually have a higher chance of having some left when you desperately need one ... 11:59:05 please, read 11:59:18 alefury has a good point mumra-- could you search the responses you've made and combine those into a response on the wiki? 11:59:37 i see i may have missed some things, but theyre not very convincing to me 12:00:11 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:51 alefury: i think item destruction being intended to make players carry less consumables is kind of the wrong way to put it; some functions of it are designed that way 12:01:16 but the actual consequences of item destruction are a) players have less consumables b) players can't always rely on consumables 12:01:27 that is very different to "this feature is designed to encourage stashing" 12:01:46 a) is very minor for good players, b) is very minor in general 12:02:05 unless youre fighting a fire crab or something 12:02:19 (this happens less than once per game on average) 12:02:47 Nivim: i would rather condense my final opinion into a wiki response once i have taken all different views into account ;) 12:04:25 alefury: re discussion channels, i think it's ok to have another one if we also "this is the main one, use this now" to all devs, and also have an organised way of communicating results of discussions to players 12:04:43 im not saying its designed to encourage stashing btw, i said its designed to limit the number of accessible consumables 12:04:44 the kind of private board i'm talking about would be open to non-devs as well 12:04:59 for reading, or writing? 12:05:46 a good way may be to simply not let players register themselves 12:05:53 isn't crd already this 12:06:05 pretty much, yes, but the interface is a bit inconvenient 12:06:05 alefury:yeah, that's what i'm thinking 12:06:07 except not private because why would it be private 12:06:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06:15 MarvinPA: as in, invite only 12:06:29 kind of like badwiki 12:06:30 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 12:06:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:06:37 (There's at least one other IRC channel than crawl and -dev; sil.) 12:06:38 exactly 12:06:41 baddevforum 12:06:51 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2474-g552a472 (34) 12:07:12 anyway, see you later, i got to go 12:07:16 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 22.0/20130626043228]] 12:07:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:09:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:03 invite only sounds much worse than some dev-only thing to me 12:10:59 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:59 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 12:11:02 it just sounds like people need to be encouraged to use crd more if there's really any huge problem which i don't particularly see that there is 12:11:13 yeah, probably 12:12:02 also i would guess that a lot of the time crd doesn't get responses just because of people not having any strong opinion on the mail, so probably that wouldn't change in any new channel of discussion 12:14:05 ... what makes a man neutral, kif? ... 12:16:02 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:16:16 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:05 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:57 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:37 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:00 -!- moxian has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:45:26 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:19 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:53:28 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:16 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:00 -!- moxian_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:05 -!- rax_ is now known as rax 13:12:15 -!- brothergg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:16:55 -!- Aarifnel has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:53 I'm trying to play Trunk on CAO, but when I click 'DCSS Trunk' all I get is a black screen with the chat bar in the lower corner. 13:18:35 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:37 -!- notlainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:20:26 Aa webtiles? 13:20:26 let me look 13:20:33 Yea. Webtiles. Thanks. 13:20:49 Same thing here 13:21:22 hrm other version work, I wonder if there's an issue with the trunk build 13:21:47 that was my thought. I was able to play .12 13:22:31 I also tried on CSZO and got the same thing 13:22:34 how long have you tried waiting? 13:22:35 hrm it looks like a bunch of games on trhunk are working 13:22:46 I suspect it's a new build that has issues, _or_ it's being slow for some reason 13:22:48 I waited over 15 min at one point. 13:22:57 15 minutes sounds like it's not just slow :P 13:23:02 Try pressing esc? 13:23:13 Esc worked. 13:23:19 or, yeah, whatever you normally do to get past the splash screen 13:23:20 * Aarifnel facepalms. 13:23:30 I suualy wait out the splash screen 13:23:31 I actually had the same issue with a blackscreen when I tried to roll a zigsprint game. 13:23:34 someone mentioned something about that being broken a while ago 13:23:46 Then today it didn't work for some reason and that fixed it. 13:23:52 Gotcha. Thanks for the help! 13:24:09 you're welcome 13:24:27 it seems like whatever the spiked flail and ebony casket commits were about are probably causing issues, given the types of things people are mentioning 13:25:52 people were seeing references to "buggy flails" and "buggy ebony caskets" 13:26:12 ebony caskets were removed, i think 13:26:20 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:22 %git :/casket 13:26:22 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-2467-g60ee9b8: Axe an ebony casket sighting... 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=60ee9b898e0c 13:26:25 What were they anyways? 13:26:31 ?? ebony casket 13:26:31 box of beasts[1/2]: Your own mobile petting zoo! Evoke to release a beast. If the evocation was unsuccessful, there is a 1 in 6 chance that the box will go poof. Succeeds (60 + evo)/100. Hostile: 1/(evo+5). Bat, hound, jackal, rat, ice beast, snake, yak, butterfly, water moccasin, crocodile, or hell hound (if not worshipping a good god). 13:26:32 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/d6d3c1c7156c8ef6494196065cdb22f9c50ba664 13:27:01 anyway, numerous people in ##crawl have reported having trouble at startup and getting messages about these things 13:28:17 it's the empty ebony casket causing the problem 13:28:23 -!- Fluorine has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:28:28 which is what the box of beasts used to turn into when you'd used it up 13:30:21 at some point it was made to not-exist, and then kilobyte properly purged it recently 13:30:24 alefury, +1 on your wiki post 13:30:33 well, s/properly/buggily/ ;) 13:30:37 mumra: doesn't seem to have ... yeah 13:34:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:26 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:40 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:49 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:20 DCSS MacOSX Tiles crashes on startup in Mountain Lion when full screen is enabled by aegolden 13:44:44 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2475-g4c86f18: Fix some error messages on startup 10(70 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c86f189f6f5 13:52:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:01:49 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:52 . 14:07:37 -!- grathtarg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:02 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:13:03 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:30 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:27 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:59 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:31 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:44 fr: remove panlord spawns from the orb run 14:34:49 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:19 -!- Rebenga has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:47 did you just splat? 14:38:18 yes 14:38:23 ouch 14:38:32 pan lord with both summon greater demon AND summon eyeballs 14:38:50 that was also faster than me 14:38:57 i lost a berserker to the same kind of pan lord 14:39:04 on zot 5 14:39:28 though i could have prevented it if i was not rushing 14:39:39 I thought I could just berserk the thing down 14:39:58 it immediately got me confused and paralyzed and then dropped a shadow fiend 14:40:13 at least it wasn't a pan lord monk thing with distort fists 14:40:23 or 14:40:25 appendages 14:40:38 few games ago I had just that 14:40:42 lol 14:40:48 i went to the abyss 5 times 14:40:51 before i got away 14:40:56 ended up dying THAT game to one with IOOD that hit for 90+ damage in one casting 14:41:05 once within a single turn of exiting 14:41:28 orb run is terror 14:41:37 it's ridiculously uneven 14:41:43 sometimes it's nothing 14:41:50 and sometimes it will wreck your face 14:42:03 sometimes you have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever, other times you have 15-runers that clear multiple ziggurats die a horrible death 14:42:10 looks very much like a case of incredibly bad play and nothing else to me 14:42:14 also a case of wrong channel 14:42:29 ;_; 14:42:31 i like the orb run 14:42:33 haha 14:42:42 sorry =/ 14:47:15 -!- darktwinge is now known as Twinge 14:47:49 Marvin lays down the hammer 14:48:24 I still feel that the orb run is too random at times 14:53:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:46 LexAckson: it was just directed at lightli, since this was a kneejerk "fr" after a death caused by mindlessly berserking a pan lord without stopping to think at all 14:54:01 that usually works though 14:54:43 mental note: never fight pan lords during the orb run. ever 14:55:21 that does not seem like the relevant lesson here 14:57:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:47 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:00 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:54 man i had a really fun orb run where i was wearing maxwell's armour 15:04:55 -!- blue102 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:03 so, -tele 15:05:15 it was much more difficult 15:05:28 it might be cool to have the orb just give -tele 15:05:41 otoh that might be too hard for certian characters 15:06:12 or maybe not tele but blink would still work 15:06:58 so as to let casters keep away to some degree 15:07:56 -!- Aarifnel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:09:05 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:30 -!- Gamesmaster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:11:44 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:00 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:55 -!- bellabot has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:57 -!- bellabot has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:14 -!- Duralumin_ is now known as Duralumin 15:17:48 -ctele was bad enough 15:18:03 maybe the orb could give you Mark 15:20:59 dear god no 15:22:07 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:58 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:33 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:35:02 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:02 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:23 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:40 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:11 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:50:23 -!- sacje has quit [Excess Flood] 15:53:50 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:40 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:47 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:34 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:26 -!- lainiw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 16:08:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:11:22 clicking trunk takes you to a black screen, need to hit ESC to get to character select by battaile 16:14:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: 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Page closed] 18:57:58 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:03 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:41 -!- ahahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:06:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:39 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:23 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:14 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:43 is there something awry if erica just followed me on a teleport? 19:11:32 i suppose she could've cast self teleport, and happened to get teleported to one spot beneath me at the same time and coincidentally lose her invisibility then too 19:11:35 -!- Dalvant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:40 but it seems exceedingly unlikely 19:12:10 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:28 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:52 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:17 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:18:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 19:20:13 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:21:27 -!- Lumpydoo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:24:02 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:24:05 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:34:51 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:37 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:01 Ketziah the Skirmisher (L4 LOCK) ASSERT(power > 0) in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 252 failed on turn 1493. (D:2) 19:46:28 So, I was doing a little poking about with that idea the other day of moving non-unique @s to p, and then merging p into W (since there is enough room for no overlaps) 19:46:36 I have a little initial mockup, rc-file-wise here: http://pastebin.com/kEcwwXSi 19:46:42 The only more questionable bit is what to do with player ghosts, I think? Like, they were white, but while I could move wraiths themselves, I am reluctant to replace a common not-so-scary monster with one that is much more scary, for risk of misleading players. 19:46:50 I suppose it's arguable which is better 19:48:25 (And then after, deep dwarf death knights and unborn could be moved into p/L and lose their deep dwarf status and the other ones could go poof) 19:52:05 Was hoping for an opinion or two from someone more invested in which glyph goes where :P 19:52:21 (Also, I suppose this would free up more space in @ to move some existing uniques to reduce overlap further) 19:57:14 DracoOmega: i had a possible bug earlier but seems like no one was around. lemme copy/paste what i said earlier 19:57:25 is there something awry if erica just followed me on a teleport? 19:57:25 [19:11] i suppose she could've cast self teleport, and happened to get teleported to one spot beneath me at the same time and coincidentally lose her invisibility then too 19:57:59 seems like it's probably but not necessarily a bug 19:58:06 I am not sure of anything that would cause her to come alongside you, at any rate 19:58:12 It might just have been a freakish coincidence 19:58:16 yeah 19:58:28 (And I am not sure how we really would check, unless it keeps happening somehow) 19:58:28 i knew it was possible for it to have just happened to fall out that way 19:58:46 but it seemed like it was so exceedingly unlikely that i'd better ask first 19:59:10 Well, it does seem exceedingly unlikely, sure 19:59:39 But I don't know that there's enough to go on there to suggest otherwise 20:00:02 You weren't doing anything strange, were you? 20:00:25 not really 20:00:32 she was invisible while i was fighting her 20:00:36 but that's not that abnormal 20:00:55 I would go as far as to say that's normal, in fact :P 20:01:03 and i was slowed 20:01:03 when the teleport happened 20:01:03 i'll assume she cast self teleport at some point, because i could periodically "hear a zap" 20:01:37 and she is at low hp in our new positions 20:02:07 and i guess she'd been invisible for a while. so it very well could have just been coincidental 20:02:17 It sounds increasingly like that 20:02:43 it just seemed like such a freak thing to happen that my first instinct was "bug" before i started considering everything 20:02:51 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:56 Yeah, sure. No harm in passing it along 20:03:21 well, then i'll go see if it gets me killed! =D 20:03:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:05:18 i survived erica then got electric eeled, if you were waiting to find out =P 20:05:23 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:05:33 Haha, no. My sympathies 20:06:16 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:25 -!- ZebTM has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:13 well, that probably would have happened even if she didn't follow me, since i didn't move away from the water to rest 20:07:31 so that was more me being stupid 20:12:37 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:13:38 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:48 -!- Melum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:21 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:21:45 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:24:29 surely there is a free W for pghosts 20:25:31 Well, yes 20:25:37 Did you even click the link? :P 20:26:09 I was just mentioning the issue of either changing their color from what it traditionally was, or moving wraiths to preserve their color at the risk of them being confused FOR a wraith 20:26:20 There is room in either case 20:26:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:59 unknown monster: "player ghost" 20:26:59 %??player ghost 20:27:16 well the change to W is more noticeable than the colour change certainly 20:27:29 * SamB can't even remember what color they are 20:27:34 but wraiths have been so forgettable for so long that I doubt anyone will confuse a pghost for one 20:27:44 so making pghosts white seems fine 20:27:54 wraith (16W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1313(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(56), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 210 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 20:27:54 %??wraith 20:28:21 I guess wraiths could be lightgrey and eidolons yellow or something then? 20:33:43 -!- thumpsmash has quit [Client Quit] 20:39:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:45:03 things being on lightgrey and white on the same glyph upsets me 20:45:54 Well, right now it's eidolons/wraiths 20:49:58 Well, there are a couple other free places, but several of them would be rather odd for wraiths, I think 20:50:02 Like lightred 20:50:14 Or lightcyan 20:52:20 No other place to keep wraiths/eidolons on a light/dark pair either, if player ghosts take white from them 20:52:29 Without shuffling a bunch of other things more than I think is ideal 20:53:06 Not that this pairing is necessary to keep; I guess eidolons are only 'stronger wraiths' in a very vague sense 20:53:29 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:54:41 i kind of mentally group them together 20:54:43 for what that's worth 20:54:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 20:55:08 but a glyph change won't really affect me since i usually play tiles anyway 20:55:35 Well, so do I 20:55:51 (Their tiles will continue to look similar, I assume :P) 20:56:05 But this is why I want feedback from actual people who will be playing with this 20:56:14 Since I don't trust my judgement so much here 20:56:27 (But would still like to expedite the process) 20:57:46 lightcyan seems nice 20:57:48 for wraiths 20:58:46 Really? 20:59:08 Silent spectres would be cyan W here 20:59:09 well it doesn't really matter 20:59:14 less weird than lightred 20:59:18 Well, yes 20:59:19 oh hmm, true 21:02:31 Lightgrey wraiths and yellow or lightcyan eidolons I think make most sense if player ghosts become white Ws 21:02:51 (Though the mockup just had yellow W player ghosts :P) 21:03:14 ew 21:03:36 Did you even click the link at all? :P 21:03:42 lightred "reserved for dreads" 21:04:17 Here it is again, in any case: http://pastebin.com/kEcwwXSi 21:04:34 clicking links is kind of hard 21:04:48 oh but this is a good link 21:04:52 except for being on the worst pastebin 21:05:02 V:$ ambush will look amusing with this 21:05:19 mon_glyph = Killer Klown: black p 21:05:21 ummm 21:05:25 They're black @ now 21:05:25 are klowns special-acsed or 21:05:28 So yes 21:05:29 i was wondering about that 21:05:31 ok good 21:05:38 i was afraid you'd gone *really* crazy 21:05:43 Haha, no 21:05:50 shadows on space like oldcrawl, imo 21:06:18 (Also, this doesn't actually WORK for player ghosts at the moment, since their color is overriden in code elsewhere, but this conveys the point) 21:06:28 anyway, I approve of these changes modulo the moving of pghosts 21:06:45 Well, you yourself suggested a lot of it, keep in mind :P 21:06:55 yes! that's why it's good 21:06:57 Hahaha 21:07:17 (the pW changes will be more controversial than the 2M ones of course, so I don't conceptually group them together) 21:07:35 That is why they are not physically grouped either! 21:07:40 true 21:07:55 Hellion change seems about as uncontroversial as possible here 21:08:21 is "ghost" a real monster now 21:08:32 Genus placeholder 21:08:37 !fight ghost v ghost 21:08:40 What do you think about moving a few @s afterward, incidentally? There are two free colors! 21:08:42 Or will be 21:08:58 you'd have to rename them 21:08:59 * SamB realizes he hasn't opened any puttys yet 21:09:01 uniques *are* their glyphs! 21:09:09 Make Norris brown to match his tan? :P 21:09:42 also like I said earlier, it would be a very good idea to include in the standard rc files that are always available to include one to revert the pW changes, since it looks like it'd only be a few lines and some people will surely want it 21:09:45 In any case, I don't really care if no one else does. I'm not going to muck up more cosmetic things there unless actual console players care. 21:09:54 Oh, I would absolutely do that, sure 21:10:11 nice thing about uniques is that you basically never encounter two of the same glyph simultaneously :P 21:10:13 I have volunteered to do the actual work - I am just asking opinions on the contents of that work :P 21:10:18 this battle is VEEEERY boring 21:10:27 NOTHING is happening 21:10:31 Well, Norris/Margery seems more likely than most 21:10:49 Most are further apart in depth range 21:10:51 yes, that seems like the one relevant clash 21:11:01 could make one of them clash with edmund instead :P 21:11:13 Well, brown and lightblue would be empty altogether 21:11:22 Also Donald/Louise, maybe? 21:11:31 DracoOmega: so, what of dwarves? 21:12:05 Well, move death knights to green p and make human (or unspecified). Unborns either become Ls or I turn them into a living p (which I might do anyway). The rest can go poof. 21:12:10 !fight ghost v ghost -cancel 21:12:11 Well, the non-unique ones 21:12:15 ??fight 21:12:16 fight[1/4]: the best(/spammiest) invention since ever. telnet termcast.develz.org (FightClub channel) to watch. "!fight cancel" to end a fight that's stalled, or repeat the same command line with "cancel" at the end, e.g. !fight butterfly v butterfly cancel. 21:12:22 !fight ghost v ghost cancel 21:12:23 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:12:24 DracoOmega: right I was thinking specifically about show_player_species and the uniques 21:12:37 Well, unless we need the q for something, can't it stay meaning dwarf? 21:12:42 And we don't seem to at the moment 21:13:08 well, yes, just that them having their own glyph for two unique monsters is weird, considering e.g. halflings get lumped into p 21:13:21 Like, there are a bunch of other glyphs that could be merged, like say moving bees into y. But unless there is something we want to DO with k, it seems unnecessary 21:13:23 halfling (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 6-15 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 30 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 21:13:23 %??halfling 21:13:24 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: well, whether Q or q or something else, it would be nice to put chimerae on a different letter, since then you could use the base monster colour without conflicts 21:13:41 <|amethyst> elliott: pong 21:13:44 Q because chimerae are big 21:13:48 |amethyst: On a letter of their own? Or just one less crowded than H? 21:13:53 |amethyst: the ping was for cszo issues that osmeone else reported then retracted 21:13:56 *someone 21:13:57 <|amethyst> ah 21:14:17 DracoOmega: personally I'd consider moving the dwarf species monster to p like halflings and then the two dwarf uniques to @ (because they're unique ps) 21:14:19 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I was thinking of their own so they could use the colour of their first base monster with no rist of conflict 21:14:21