00:00:57 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2262-gbcf3ac4 (34) 00:05:14 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-2263-gc4bd1bd: Make sure to check selected skills after training 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4bd1bdd8c3b 00:09:05 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 00:09:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:13:20 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2263-gc4bd1bd (34) 00:17:05 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:24:59 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:08 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:06 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2263-gc4bd1bd 00:45:09 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:11 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:16 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:03 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:27 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:53:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:54:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:08 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:09 -!- Writ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 01:14:39 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:16:02 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 01:25:00 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:28 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:26:39 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 01:27:11 -!- reaver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:53:47 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 01:55:02 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:20 -!- mason- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:41 -!- grathtarg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:30:45 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:32:39 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:25 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42:24 -!- timpakya has quit [] 02:50:34 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:52:59 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:24 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:25 -!- namad8 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:10:58 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:13:11 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:24:21 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:26 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:10 I have basically no time these days (will get better in two weeks) but I really wanted to say that the xp regulations are wonderful! <3 <3 <3 03:32:10 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:38:26 -!- Ystah has quit [] 03:40:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:40:59 let me spoil taht mood for you 03:40:59 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/wtfwip5.png 03:44:45 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 03:45:41 dpeg: xp regulations? 03:45:44 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:29 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:47:56 kryft: DracoOmega's recent commits about midgame xp. 03:53:28 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:50 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:49 -!- Thyme has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:58 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:27:40 -!- lainiw has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:30:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:31:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:24 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:40 !messages 04:31:41 (1/4) |amethyst said (4d 17h 21m 30s ago): http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1hffns/dcss_why_do_they_keep_axing_races_left_and_right/ 04:32:21 |amethyst: yes, I saw that. Gave two quite lengthy replies :) The thread exploded, but it's a decent one, no whining. 04:32:24 !messages 04:32:25 (1/3) reaver said (1d 6h 45m 30s ago): DracoOmega, SamB, and I were wondering about when the 0.11 results were coming out. Could you ask jpeg if she's still working on it? 04:32:27 should just axe them down the center, that might help keep some of the complaints down 04:32:45 !tell reaver I will ask jpeg. Sorry about it :( 04:32:46 dpeg: OK, I'll let reaver know. 04:33:29 SwissStopwatch: axe what? 04:33:50 the races, since left and right aren't doing it apparently 04:34:00 ah, hehe :) 04:36:05 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:36 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 04:45:00 heh 04:51:43 -!- Thyme has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:56:34 -!- Raycaster has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:02:28 dpeg :O 05:06:29 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:08:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:22 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:34 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:48 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 05:39:49 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 05:43:03 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:48:05 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:51:40 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:22 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 05:54:54 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:45 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:07:25 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:12:49 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:50 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:07 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:08 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 06:54:15 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:03:20 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:01 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:08:43 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:15:33 -!- dcss85939 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:22:33 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:13 'I think that this is what the Tolkien-based races give Crawl, is the advantage of familiarity, and losing that is bad. Everyone knows that Legolas shoots arrows, Frodo sneaks around, and Gimli chops stuff up with a big axe in full armor. A Lava Orc...well, harder to explain.' 07:27:21 ah, the famous combos LeHu, FrAs and GiFi 07:28:01 'You're also ignoring that mummies are the worst when the game is hardest, D:1 to sometime around Lair.' 07:28:04 badreddit? 07:28:26 does it imply they get better afterwards 07:29:24 -!- pantaril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:55 nec boost at 13! 07:29:59 powerful power 07:32:07 helps you cast borg 07:32:13 or better, necromutation??? 07:36:22 the reddit thread is quite ok, looked at in total 07:36:31 (not really here) 07:39:34 http://i.imgur.com/3nTxDpC.jpg 07:39:52 I never realized Pokemon was so tragic 07:40:05 Like, canonically 07:42:37 -!- phyphor has left ##crawl-dev 07:47:21 link to the reddit thread? 07:54:49 http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1hffns/dcss_why_do_they_keep_axing_races_left_and_right/ 07:59:10 thanks 08:00:14 Add colemak keyboard bindings by pubby 08:10:51 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:10:55 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:04 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:39:13 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:06 -!- dcss57285 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:07 -!- Hailey has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:50:56 -!- adityarajbhatt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:52:59 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-2264-g526961a: Don't capitalise inventory letters in describe title (#7306). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=526961a5c5ed 08:53:01 Add option to start the game on the skill menu. by pubby 08:56:33 hi dpeg 09:01:04 dpeg: i coded a demo version of the item i talked about, it needs a few more effects tho 09:01:35 hmm, we have an experimental branch now 09:01:49 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:28 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:53 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:13 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:04 fr "Helium Troll Narcissist Natural Philosophe" 09:10:19 s/phe/pher/ 09:10:47 Well, this is an amusing-sounding death 09:10:50 Sabaki the Slasher (L5 HaFi), impaled on Crazy Yiuf the porcupine's spines on D:3 (uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage) on 2013-07-01 10:18:21, with 226 points after 3050 turns and 0:07:32. 09:10:50 HTNP??? 09:10:59 wow someone died to spines 09:11:10 A bunch of people have now, actually 09:11:20 They're actually kind of scary earlier on 09:11:25 If you have bad AC 09:13:59 oh someone changed them 09:14:10 Yes (me) 09:14:19 yes I guessed 09:14:30 for players too? 09:14:32 Yes 09:14:36 cool 09:14:42 A lot less message spam, and more killing things 09:14:46 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:06 (Also, EV isn't several times better against them than AC, for some odd reason)_ 09:19:22 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2265-g60daf74: Distinguish water elemental drowning from conventional drowning in the score list 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 12+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=60daf7443bcc 09:22:10 DracoOmega: that doesn't cover mummies :b 09:22:23 Except they can't drown the other way, so... 09:22:49 Unless at some point mummies acquire a way to lose their breathlessness 09:22:54 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:25:51 <|amethyst> doesn't lemuel_Flame_loot_2 need some no_rtele_into ? 09:27:10 <|amethyst> and gold_lair_mu 09:27:53 <|amethyst> (also, which vault is this: http://i.imgur.com/zwWFPt4.png ) 09:29:13 <|amethyst> and corexii_corridor_pit seems a little silly without secret doors 09:29:39 <|amethyst> at the very least it could be simplified 09:30:11 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: thanks! 09:31:21 |amethyst: the picture is minmay_lindwurm_lava 09:31:42 |amethyst: No problem. Thanks for pointing it out. Somehow I had assumed it was already giving killer information if it was associated with a monster source (but it was even NON_MONSTER on top of that, so...) 09:33:07 <|amethyst> Grunt: hm, which also lacks the prop, as does the one landable spot in evilmike_quicksilver_bait 09:33:47 <|amethyst> and minmay_rotating_lava 09:34:30 Wouldn't it be better to give places like minmay_lindwurm_lava an escape hatch instead of making them no_rtele? 09:34:33 Battlesphere incorrectly displaying in monster list by battaile 09:35:21 <|amethyst> that would work too 09:35:35 <|amethyst> I guess they don't get one because they're opaque? 09:35:53 <|amethyst> I forget the rules about when an escape hatch gets added versus the level being vetoed? 09:40:03 I wonder how many times now I will read 'spriggan berserker' in the monster list as 'spriggan baker' before I double-check? >.> 09:40:35 spriggan berserkers: so bad :( 09:40:47 Bad in what sense? 09:45:29 flavor, plausibility 09:46:25 What, so it's out of flavor for wild forest-dwellers to run around in animals skins with their bear companions? :P 09:46:55 Datul (L27 HOGl) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed. (Pan) 09:52:01 -!- radiosilence has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:28 Strange. Friendly rotting devils make miasma clouds beneath themselves when standing around each turn, but hostile ones do not 09:54:45 (Likewise with efreets, etc.) 09:55:10 monsters cheat, even when they're friendly, just to screw over the player 09:55:53 I am fairly sure this is accidental 09:56:01 But something to do with the way movement is processed 09:56:34 I think it may be from them trying to move into the player, which still calls the movement code (and places a cloud) even if it doesn't move them 09:58:57 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:35 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:37 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:07:10 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:07:34 Eronarn: does Spriggan Fundamentalist Vegan sound better? 10:10:07 Hahaha 10:10:18 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 10:11:20 spriggan lugonu's witness 10:14:30 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:39 -!- adityarajbhatt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 10:30:55 -!- steve2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:36 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:35:16 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 10:54:11 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:58:27 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:30 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:41 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:09:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:55 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:15:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:24:18 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:19 !messages 11:24:20 No messages for bh. 11:26:53 -!- Fruit_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:17 hi all. i can't join to my game on the server, ***Another game is already in progress using this save! Hit any key to exit...*** can anybody help me with it?^^ 11:29:43 usually it fixes itself after 5 minutes or so iirc 11:30:18 if not, specify which server and character it is and maybe an admin will be around to help 11:30:22 okay. thx a lot:) first time with me 11:36:37 Illaniel (L27 HESk) ASSERT(this) in 'actor.h' at line 34 failed. (Elf:3) 11:37:34 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:20 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 11:54:15 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:54:45 -!- dcss11606 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:49 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:52 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:49 -!- dcss90871 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:16 hmmm... 12:02:39 this could be really neat for crawl https://github.com/dotcloud/dockerlite 12:03:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:04:42 -!- [1]tarantoga has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 12:05:09 Eronarn: for sandboxing games? 12:06:00 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:08:00 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 12:11:37 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:29 bh: yeah 12:12:51 could also be neat to be able to move images to other servers 12:14:10 -!- radiosilence has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:14:10 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:18 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:16:17 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:17:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-2265-g60daf74 (34) 12:21:31 ??traps 12:21:32 traps[1/1]: See the type of trap for more information, such as ??zot trap. 12:21:39 ??spider basket 12:21:39 I don't have a page labeled spider_basket in my learndb. 12:21:44 ??gas trap 12:21:44 gas trap[1/1]: Cloud traps given specific names (though are still vault-defined); remember the results can be huge but is usually short-lived, and the traps can be disarmed. Varieties, leaning further down the list by depth: mephitic, poisonous, calcifying, flame, freezing, chaos, and miasma. 12:22:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:25 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:57 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:55 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2266-g20a9065: New monster: Deathcap 10(39 minutes ago, 5 files, 24+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20a90650996e 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2267-ga947c05: Rework Curse Toes 10(26 minutes ago, 3 files, 30+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a947c05eb8e9 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2268-g5c11329: Don't let rPois grant immunity to mushroom confusion melee 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5c1132916df0 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2269-g92f2028: Make some curse skulls patrolling (HangedMan) 10(9 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=92f2028361f8 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2270-g4afe3df: Make Curse Toes a bit more common in Zot 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4afe3df08cd6 12:31:28 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-2271-g2913054: Remove random guardian mummies from Zot 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29130549fe1b 12:32:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:30 ??deathcap 12:33:30 I don't have a page labeled deathcap in my learndb. 12:35:28 I'm pretty sure ##crawl's not THAT quick :P 12:35:45 (Though someone is probably already busy complaining >.>) 12:36:57 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:52 I see that it confuses, but I don't see anything with negative energy. Is it supposed to be MONS_WANDERING_MUSHROOM? 12:39:37 What? 12:40:02 Oh, the species listed may be wrong, I guess 12:40:14 But they are actually undead 12:40:30 From the description I assumed they'd have some negative energy attack 12:40:35 They drain life 12:40:51 oh! They have the soul eater spell list 12:40:54 Yes 12:41:13 are we trying to one-up each other for meanest monster? 12:41:24 That is not my specific goal, no :P 12:41:34 do several of those get fought at once? you might want to be careful about screen flashes 12:41:45 Yeah, the screen flashes for drain life ARE kind of annoying 12:41:52 i think drain life works well as a monster spell, but the flashing tends to be useless 12:41:56 can leave it for the player version though 12:42:03 I have wondered about removing it from the monster one, yes 12:42:15 would anyone miss it? 12:42:22 I mean, it can be good to know that it's happening, but the same is true of smite and such and that manages okay without extra notification 12:44:30 what about coloring XL/progress? 12:44:38 What? 12:45:05 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:45:09 when you get whacked hard, we show it in the HP bar 12:45:30 if we want additional "you have been drained" feedback other than screen flashes, what about adding color to the XL indicator in status? 12:45:37 Drain life doesn't actually affect your xp 12:45:43 Just your hp 12:45:52 And normal draining doesn't flash anything at all 12:46:35 oh! 12:46:49 meh. Torment doesn't flash and it's plenty nasty 12:46:53 Yeah 12:47:23 Speaking of xp draining though, I have been meaning to rework that a little anyway, and it occurs to me that the xp changes I made yesterday will have made it a lot nastier than it used to be, so probably I should get to that soon 12:47:31 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:48:22 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 12:48:41 The idea was to make it give a temporary skill penalty (like Ash wrath) that you'd work off with xp, without ever actually losing overall progress in the end 12:48:47 Since I haven't always been able to notice this, does XP draining even care at all about how much damage you take or how much rN you have? 12:48:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:59 SwissStopwatch: It cares about your rN, but mostly not about the damage 12:49:09 mostly 12:49:21 SwissStopwatch: Except insofar as it has a reduced chance to trigger on melee if you take like 1-2 damage from it or something 12:49:32 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:50 But if it actually says that you were drained, the damage that triggered it does not matter (but melee draining uses a different formula than spell draining anyawy, It hink) 12:50:22 imo make it still instakill you if it picks a skill you have 0 in 12:50:26 haha 12:50:26 "encouraging diversification" 12:50:27 Haha 12:50:37 But most characters have 0 in most skills! :P 12:50:39 encouraging people to train weapons past mindelay 12:50:52 but yeah that draining idea has been mentioned i think since victory dancing removal, sounds good to me 12:51:07 Should make it more tactically relevant without being so painful, I think 12:51:28 It kind of sounds bad depending on how much it is per-hit and how much it can stack up and etc 12:51:34 everyone will think it loses them overall progress btw 12:51:39 I always look at the bright side, you see 12:51:39 well currently it's really not painful ever so hopefully it would just make it relevant at all :P 12:51:46 elliott: Even if colored differently? 12:51:58 MarvinPA: Painful in terms of how it feels (mostly to people who don't realize it doesn't matter) 12:51:59 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:04 DracoOmega: yes because it wears off with xp 12:52:10 idk I think losing multiple XLs at certain points of the game for certain character types is a little significant 12:52:13 MarvinPA: ummmm I hear you want to wear two rings of rN and an amulet of warding for V:$ 12:52:15 not that bad but it hurts 12:52:49 rN is actually really good in vaults though, for making it feel much smoother 12:52:59 I have certainly had to fight hard to convince a friend of mine that draining wasn't the most horrible thing to have happen to you 12:53:21 At least to me shadow dragons suddenly not having drainbreath felt like it made it really a lot easier 12:54:05 like you obviously probably have better equips to use than rN+ but it is good 12:55:01 elliott: Not like there are potentially any other things you'd like to resist. 12:55:23 well of course there are 12:55:31 anyway speaking of effects that currently don't matter at all 12:55:36 it looks like gargoyles get annoying spam messages almost every time they open a door 12:55:40 because of clinging! 12:55:42 Oh dear 12:56:06 That's kind of amusing in a cringe-inducing way, though 12:56:16 ack. :\ 12:56:20 Can you open a door yourself to death? 12:56:32 lava + door? 12:56:40 let's find out 12:56:46 hm, quite probably although i don't imagine there are many layouts that make that happen 12:56:47 That would also be kind of amusing in a cringe-inducing way 12:57:28 I'm pretty sure there's an Azrael vault like that. 12:57:47 It's two doors directly adjacent to lava in a metal box. 12:57:58 So if you're dumb enough to take the closed door, splooch. 12:57:59 you can get into some vaults with cling, but can't cling your way out 12:58:36 that's even better than dying to opening a door I think 12:58:43 you could probably door-yourself to death btw 12:58:51 I died once becasue spider form ran out and I fell onto a bolt trap 12:58:55 so if a trap is in front of a door... 12:59:25 ouch 12:59:25 it looks like you can't move from clinging to a rock wall to clinging to a door 12:59:33 which i guess is another way that clinging makes no sense at all 12:59:44 although at least makes it harder to drown yourself 12:59:54 should we remove the cling message? 13:00:11 i dont see why not, there is a status light 13:00:22 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:26 Also unlike with spiders, this is permanent. 13:00:33 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:00:37 (spider form*) 13:01:04 i would rather remove clinging personally 13:01:18 since it is very rarely relevant to anything and is really weird and complicated in a lot of ways 13:01:38 I think it matters to a decent number of spider vaults involving water? 13:01:52 For players, less-so, admittedly 13:01:57 monster clinging is a different beast 13:01:57 player clinging* 13:01:58 yeah 13:02:43 I did find it pretty fun on those ocassions I have managed to use spider clinging to get someplace I could not otherwise 13:02:47 But admittedly those are very rare 13:02:58 OK I don't think this will work to set up a door lava death 13:03:09 Since flight is so easy to come by, mostly 13:03:12 but not being able to go directly from fly to cling over lava is funny 13:03:28 fr secret doors so that you can cling to a wall and then it turns into a door and then you open it and drown 13:03:34 Hahaha 13:03:45 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:48 Can you still dig yourself to death that way, at least? 13:04:01 !apt gr 13:04:03 Gr: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: 1, Polearms: -1, Staves: 1, Slings: -1, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 2, Stab: 0, Shields: -2, Traps: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: 1, Hexes: -1, Charms: -2, Summ: -1, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -1, Ice: 1, Air: -3, Earth: 3!, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: 0 13:04:04 yup 13:04:05 this means that if you're standing over lava while flying as a gargoyle next to a wall you'd normally be able to cling to 13:04:10 and flight expires, you die 13:04:17 that's a bug. 13:04:34 I guess flight just cancels cling 13:06:24 MarvinPA: that would balance traps & doors skill 13:06:25 too op right now 13:06:53 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2272-g31b0d63: Add no_rtele_into to minmay_lindwurm_lava 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 27+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=31b0d63517ba 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2273-g49e87db: Slightly reduce the noise-per-turn of Song of Slaying 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=49e87db66dca 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2274-g565aecc: Make Dragon Form pure Tmut for all species 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 3+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=565aecc77c98 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2275-g2337ef6: Reduce Song of Shielding to level 4 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2337ef626b6a 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2276-g90cba50: Apply AC to infusion damage, don't reduce MP when no damage is dealt 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=90cba503bd94 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2277-g2eee64b: Reduce boots of running ego bonus 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2eee64ba8a0f 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2278-gb3572db: Increase lightning scales' AC 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3572db00b93 13:07:02 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-2279-g9d2c972: Use different godless prayer messages for nonliving and undead players 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d2c9726270f 13:07:44 So dragon form can now be mediocre for non-draconians instead of terrible? ^^; 13:07:53 indeed 13:07:53 wow boots of running now just as strong but more irritating 13:08:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:08:26 kind of hard to ever actually nerf those meaningfully if they exist I guess 13:09:16 hm I think I know how to engineer a clinglava death, let's see 13:10:05 MarvinPA: I tend to think applying AC to a damage value of just 2 will make it really bad even at the start of the game 13:10:32 well stuff on d:1 tends to have ~0 AC 13:10:43 i tested it a bit on d:1-2 and it seemed to still do damage 13:10:55 Hmmm... well, a few things have more than that 13:11:04 is the idea to just make it a little useful pre-temple and then not worth casting anymore? 13:11:08 I heard it was already kind of not so good early since you have no mp to power it ither 13:11:25 I realize it's a problem after a while, though 13:11:43 i was considering giving Sk an extra MP to start with, yeah 13:11:57 maybe in place of an HP since they already have more hp+mp than most backgrounds 13:12:01 tmut/charms dragon form other plz 13:12:26 i have an idea 13:12:29 make it take MP depending on your max MP 13:12:33 would hexes/charms cross training be bad? 13:12:40 so that later on it just uses up all your MP in a few hits 13:12:43 elliott: I was about to suggest something similar! :P 13:13:16 giving them +1 MP and -1 HP sounds fine, altough I too have contemplated what elliott suggested 13:13:24 maybe it'd still be bad that a pure melee dude would want to get this level 1 spell just to use it all the time 13:13:27 but like 13:13:28 I don't know what a good ratio of MP to take would be though 13:13:29 they could also get haste instead 13:13:57 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:00 well at a certain point I imagine it's going to be a lot of MP for relatively little damage. My bigger worry is that it makes the spell sort of get *worse* as you gain an xp level 13:14:01 ok yeah you can actually lava-door-die although admittedly I cheated in wizmode to set it up 13:14:31 bh: cross training isn't exactly the most important factor in character skills... 13:14:46 I had actually wondered about the possibility of making it have a single 'charge', then cost a lot of mp upon impact, with the damage done dependant on the mp consumed, but up to a small limit. Maybe too complicated, I don't know. 13:14:59 The damage being capped, I mean. Not the cost. 13:15:04 that would be interesting too 13:15:04 Eronarn: I've never liked weird cross training things, like kobolds with long blades 13:15:09 If I could think of a way for this to happen in a normal game without cheating we might be in business 13:15:24 deep troll ees could do it but that actually sounds like a legit and hilarious death 13:15:32 well that would also make it a lot more like a regular spellcaster 13:15:32 what I originally wanted, was for this to be a melee spell where there's actually a modest mp cost for doing damage 13:15:42 now, if an allied cacodemon or something managed it.... 13:15:43 if it is one charge at a time 13:15:53 MarvinPA: You think so? Even if you need to hit people to consume it? 13:16:01 bh: i 13:16:03 oops 13:16:14 Like, I was thinking something like 1/3 to 1/2 your mp at a time, or something 13:16:16 bh: i'd prefer something where crosstraining gave you effectiveness in the skill, not just learning 13:16:40 make it easier to switch over to doing something abruptly 13:16:52 Eronarn: plus it would remove the weird ordering issue 13:16:59 DracoOmega: if it did get based on the amount of MP consumed, I don't think you need to cap it. MP already has a soft cap 13:17:49 SwissStopwatch: Well, at least they don't confuse you anymore! :P 13:19:05 Eronarn: like... if skill A > B, then effective_skill(B) = B + (A - B)/2 13:19:20 I wonder if I can actually get an allied caco to b.dig the player into lava 13:19:29 it seems.... hard 13:20:01 but also theoretically possible at least, an allied dtem would almost certainly be able to do it with lrd in a weird enough setup 13:20:18 bh: yeah exactly 13:20:39 or maybe an allied jorgrun (haha) 13:20:45 Eronarn: though negative training becomes weird 13:20:54 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:21:49 also spells getting better from knowing a skill that isn't one of the spell schools and isn't spellcasting sounds bad and weird 13:22:27 bh: i think that mainly applies for the ele school penalty, right? 13:23:00 yep 13:23:43 I think the only times you get people seriously doing things involving anticrosstraining are when they're either maxing everything, or dipping into air for buffs to go with their earth focus 13:24:18 i'd almost rather have it manifest as a power-based thing, rather than a skill thing 13:24:27 the way it works with skills is not intuitive at all 13:25:48 would that mean that your spells get worse when you learn other skills potentially 13:25:53 also should consider whether it's even worth keeping, would it really hurt the game if it were just removed? 13:26:24 Like if I have 12 air and aitstrike but then get 14 earth, my airstrike would get.... worse? 13:26:29 i'd much rather see a penalty against learning multiple schools than a penalty on specific, not-even-that-powerful schools 13:27:00 It's mostly a "flavour" penalty to be sure 13:27:05 the only sensible thing to do with cross training (other than leaving it as it is, which is fine) is to get rid of it 13:27:12 making it more complicated is a terrible idea 13:27:26 remove everything! 13:27:41 Hey I said doing nothing is fine too! 13:27:47 I don't even think it's unintuitive at current yeah 13:28:16 Eronarn: well there already is a penalty for learning lots of schools in that it makes it harder to train a single spell well 13:28:16 On the other hand removing it would give more room to operate with a "fun" multielementalist build 13:28:23 s/spell/school/ 13:28:31 which is already possible, but it's conj-focused instead of relying on schools 13:28:44 which is okay 13:29:09 evilmike: for melee, automatic bonus skills doesn't seem particularly complicated; i'd definitely rate that more beginner-friendly 13:29:27 mumra: I'm not sure that's really a penalty since most spells don't even particularly benefit from -that- much extra power 13:29:39 either you can cast them or you can't a lot of the time 13:29:41 also spellcasting skill 13:30:31 SwissStopwatch: no, i meant if you spread your training into lots of schools, it's then harder to train a specific school high, because skills are harder to train when you've trained more 13:30:39 ah, right, yes 13:30:56 the real penalty is spellslots, anyway 13:31:18 apparently a lot of people don't have that problem but I run out of those all the time 13:31:22 mumra: the issue with that comparison is that nobody dips into axes 5 to be able to cast hit things with axe 13:32:03 Eronarn: i don't see why that's an issue 13:32:08 but would they dip into axes a tiny bit to slightly improve their "hit things with staff" skill? 13:32:27 Eronarn: and also i was responding to "i'd much rather see a penalty against learning multiple schools than a penalty on specific, not-even-that-powerful schools" -- and i'm saying there already *is* a penalty 13:32:27 Automatic bonus skills sounds like it could encourage some nonsensical optimizing 13:32:39 Eronarn: i don't see why it would be good to make it *harder* to cross-train 13:32:46 SwissStopwatch: automatic bonus skills of the difference in effectiveness, so they can only give you a boost until you train A and B to be equal 13:33:08 SwissStopwatch: easy to fix 13:33:12 i don't think anyone wants being able to train skill B to make A better than B is 13:33:44 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:51 like: if you have short blades 10, and long blades 0, your effective long blades skill would be 5; but training it to 10 should still take as many skill points as under the old system 13:34:09 something like that 13:34:21 radiosilence: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 lugonu's witnesses 13:34:28 yes, that would be swell really 13:34:35 mumra: and at short blades 10, long blades 5? 13:34:37 who made the pits? I really like it. It's easy compared to the other sprints, but a lot of fun 13:34:49 kilobyte: 7.5 13:34:50 bh: +1 13:35:06 In comparison, meatsprint is kind of silly 13:35:15 they were made by the same person 13:35:17 and Zigsprint is hilarious -- Jiyva + Singing Sword 13:35:19 meatsprint is hardly Crawl 13:35:24 zigsprint too 13:35:31 meatsprint: yet another meat arena ripofcf 13:35:32 kilobyte: anyway i didn't exactly think the numbers through in depth ;) 13:35:37 mnoqy: who done it? 13:35:43 st_ 13:35:59 !apt axes 13:36:00 Axes: HO: 3!, Mi: 2, LO: 2, Te: 1, DD: 1, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ha: -1, Ds: -1, Dj: -1, Ko: -1, Gh: -1, Vp: -1, Dg: -1, Gr: -1, Ce: -1, Mu: -2, Sp: -2, HE: -2, Mf: -2, DE: -2, Tr: -2, Og: -3*, Fe: N/A 13:36:07 pitsprint actually does feel like a short game of crawl 13:36:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:38 why are Og so bad at axes? 13:36:55 og are bad at everything 13:37:00 !apt og 13:37:01 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -4*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: 3!, Polearms: 0, Staves: -1, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Stab: -2, Shields: -1, Traps: -2, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 13:37:02 axes are against the church of club 13:37:04 ogres aren't very strong and they're bad at swinging things 13:37:13 haha 13:37:26 mnoqy: using an axe needs some finesse 13:37:27 if i was an ogre with an axe i'd just club things with it anyway :P 13:37:33 mumra: :p 13:37:43 doesn't sound very aerodynamic 13:37:56 club things with the blade end 13:38:24 i wonder how many apts have been designed with crosstraining in mind 13:38:28 anyway i guess Og aren't clever enough to figure this out! 13:39:05 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:08 also i wonder what anyone was even thinking designing og apts 13:39:14 Ogres don't appreciate this stereotyping about their intelligence 13:39:23 hiya dpeg! 13:39:25 Eronarn: I can tell you precisely what I was thinking. 13:39:30 Should cut that out before they brain you 13:39:30 haha 13:39:45 Hi everyone :) 13:39:50 that was a very timely pondering Eronarn :) 13:39:55 hi! 13:40:04 i didn't realize you did the OM merge apts, dpeg 13:40:47 It was not so much about a merge. I realised that we had no species with bad magic but a good Spc skill, and I thought such a species might be interesting. Then it seemed like Og could be a natural candidate. 13:40:57 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:41:08 The idea to dispense with OM came from elsewhere, I believe. 13:41:31 oh, i see 13:41:48 Some people were unhappy with the flavour or something. 13:42:20 And I didn't worry to much about the physical aptitudes, but I still think that really good Spc vs bad magic skills can be interesting. 13:42:23 I wonder how people who've played ogres over the years feel about the +1/2 / -3 Spc/Schools split as far as actually learning spells 13:42:59 Also, some very important persons maintained that challenge species were endangered and specifically wanted Ogres to never be Too Easy. 13:43:01 dpeg: clearly need to make them turn blue if you have higher spc than fighting 13:43:22 Eronarn: they get Ogre-Mage title, I think... a reminiscence to the olden times. 13:43:46 with felids and octopodes i don't see that as a problem any more... maybe it's time for ogres to get a revamp 13:43:51 i do agree about the odd flavour, it'd be a bit like having a species called "Deep Elf Wizard" 13:44:18 Eronarn: what are the benefits of revamping ogres? 13:44:24 mumra: well, it's a D&Dism, ogre mages have racial abilities not just learned magic 13:44:29 mumra: people might actually play them 13:44:35 Ogres are played. 13:44:41 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:53 Eronarn: a D&Dism isn't an argument for anything in terms of crawl flavour however 13:44:54 fr Elf Warrior race 13:44:58 Ogres are played a fair bit, even 13:45:02 although overwhelmingly as berserkers apparently 13:45:06 what's the command for most popular races 13:45:08 Unsurprising 13:45:18 !lg * s=crace 13:45:21 2419633 games for *: 267160x Deep Elf, 261152x Demonspawn, 137760x Spriggan, 136301x Minotaur, 132078x High Elf, 131577x Mummy, 99721x Hill Orc, 97275x Mountain Dwarf, 96370x Merfolk, 95059x Draconian, 90634x Kobold, 86526x Human, 81949x Vampire, 78593x Octopode, 75592x Naga, 73917x Sludge Elf, 66399x Troll, 59365x Ogre, 53180x Demigod, 45462x Kenku, 45380x Deep Dwarf, 38557x Felid, 35372x Ghoul, ... 13:45:36 As I said, Og is intentionally one of the harder species. Darshan wills it =) 13:45:41 To me in practice the -3 spell schools just meant "don't do it" regarding difficult non-broken spells 13:45:54 SwissStopwatch: that is too coarse an approach 13:46:00 mumra: for clarity's sake, i am not disagreeing with the OM merge! just noting why it was a different species originally 13:46:01 !apt Spellcasting 13:46:01 Splcast: DE: 3!, Sp: 2, Dj: 1, Dr[purple]: 1, HE: 1, Og: 1, Mu: -1, Ds: -1, Op: -1, Dr: -1, Hu: -1, Ko: -1, Vp: -1, Mf: -1, Gr: -1, Te: -1, Na: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: -2, Dg: -2, DD: -2, Ha: -3, HO: -3, LO: -3, Ce: -3, Mi: -4, Tr: -5* 13:46:08