00:00:10 -!- Arkaniad|Desktop has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 00:00:41 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.2-7-g64ef654 00:05:07 Stable (0.12) branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.12.2-7-g64ef654 00:06:15 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1660-ga2b9f94 (34) 00:07:22 -!- Pacra is now known as Jory 00:07:39 -!- ophanim is now known as Pacra 00:07:52 -!- Jory is now known as Guest69315 00:08:24 -!- Pacra is now known as ophanim 00:08:30 -!- Guest69315 is now known as Pacra 00:11:19 -!- Hotroot has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:39 -!- morphy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:12:25 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 00:12:37 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:31 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.13-a0-1660-ga2b9f94 (34) 00:16:32 -!- eb has quit [] 00:16:54 so when does ring flight become permanent? 00:17:21 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:17:37 when it becomes an amulet 00:17:53 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:24 Well, I hadn't heard much opposition to it just happening when someone codes it, at least the last time this came up 00:20:12 <|amethyst> SamB: runrest_ignore_monster += wandering mushroom:2 00:20:35 Also damn if every single thing on this list of mine ends up uncovering some hidden complication that delays it a day while I figure out what I want to do with it =/ 00:20:37 so we just add that to the default config then 00:21:26 <|amethyst> hm.. the distance parameter is kind of weird when it comes to travelling rather than resting 00:21:30 obviously we'll want to do something about flight penalties ... 00:21:38 |amethyst: hmm? 00:21:39 What flight penalties? 00:22:15 well, you know, you should still be able to do things you could do while not wearing the ring 00:22:21 Yes, and? 00:22:25 What exactly can you not? 00:22:36 drown! 00:22:37 well maybe it would turn out nothing needs changing 00:22:37 I think the answer is 'take less damage from airstrike' 00:22:46 well, other than that actually 00:22:47 Being the only thing you can't do while flying 00:22:49 <|amethyst> SamB: :2 means you can rest while 2 squares away, but you can only explore/travel while 3 squares away 00:22:58 imo remove flight 00:22:58 |amethyst: odd 00:23:06 but better than the status quo 00:23:16 elliott: doesn't that make shoals harder? 00:23:19 <|amethyst> SamB: it's intentional, because safety is checked before moving 00:23:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:29 SamB: Here I think you are best served by ignoring what elliott says :P 00:23:30 <|amethyst> SamB: so that is necessary to keep you from moving into an unsafe position 00:23:46 DracoOmega: I was basically 00:24:01 |amethyst: couldn't we just check for both positions instead 00:24:05 Would this runrest thing still cause autoexplore to stop when they come into view first? 00:24:22 |amethyst: since, you know, you might not even be going that way 00:24:32 <|amethyst> SamB: not without some rewriting 00:24:39 DracoOmega: hmm, good question 00:25:03 <|amethyst> SamB: right now the runrest_ignore stuff is implemented in lua, and has no way of knowing where you might be moving to 00:28:57 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: hm... how to test that 00:29:12 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I guess a map with mushrooms 00:29:25 Yeah, probably 00:30:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:35 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:43 -!- Sky2 has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- BlinkF has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- Nomi has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- bh has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- ParallaxScroll has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- reu has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- buppy has quit [K-Lined] 00:33:43 -!- ELRanger has quit [K-Lined] 00:34:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:59 -!- squimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:36:09 <|amethyst> Hm, it looks like they are not announced 00:37:10 <|amethyst> ah, handle_seen_interrupt checks mons_is_safe 00:37:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:21 That sounds fairly bad to me to make this a default behavior 00:37:27 <|amethyst> and runrest_ignore_monster works by making the moster count as safe 00:37:43 It is one thing to be able to rest when wandering mushrooms are visible, but another to wander around without seeing them 00:37:56 Perhaps even repeatedly, as they chase you and autoexplore makes new paths around them 00:38:26 Until you round a corner and one is suddenly in your face and autoexplore stops 00:38:37 "Where'd that come from?" 00:38:48 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:38:54 <|amethyst> yeah 00:39:03 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:31 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:40 <|amethyst> which reminds me, what do we do about 7213 (Autotravel does not stop for passive ballistomycetes) 00:39:59 <|amethyst> I'm inclined to mark it not a bug, but the same thing you mention is also the case here 00:40:12 Well, those can BECOME active, no? 00:40:17 <|amethyst> you might miss them entirely until you happen to come across an active one 00:40:21 So you would likely want to kill them when you see them first 00:40:34 In fact, all the better if they are inactive at the time 00:41:28 <|amethyst> but should we force the player to do so? 00:41:37 <|amethyst> (by preventing autotravel and resting) 00:42:14 Resting feels a bit different to me, even if currently they are handled by the same mechanism 00:42:30 Since if you are choosing to rest in LoS of one, you obviously already know it is there, and it IS safe 00:42:36 i personally would rather be told i couldn't autotravel 00:42:39 even if it meant i couldn't rest 00:42:49 I use runrest_ignore_monster ^= wandering mushroom:3 00:43:02 and as long as you're pondering these questions, you can't rest in the presence of oka's training dummies either 00:43:15 Really, I do feel resting should be seperate 00:43:25 And maybe even travelling if you can already see the monster 00:43:39 But I definitely don't think monsters that CAN become harmful should be outright ignored 00:43:40 is anyone going to fix the part where mushrooms are free xp if you have a polearm 00:43:43 <|amethyst> you can do those separately with runrest_ignore 00:43:58 <|amethyst> runrest_ignore_monster vs the undocumented runrest_ignore_monster_moving 00:44:06 What? 00:44:13 <|amethyst> though I'm not 100% sure they override each other in a useful way 00:44:16 <|amethyst> but 00:44:42 ProzacElf: good point 00:44:48 /w 17 00:44:49 <|amethyst> the ballistomycete thing is handled specifically in mons_is_safe 00:44:54 "doh" 00:45:10 |amethyst: which balisto thing 00:45:25 <|amethyst> SamB: that passive ballistomyceters are considered "safe" 00:45:31 <|amethyst> s/ceter/cete/ 00:45:56 Like, the difference between a plant and a wandering mushroom or inactive balisto is that the later may not be dangerous at the moment, but can BECOME so later (so you might very well want to deal with them first) 00:45:59 the reference to them there is so that we DON'T skip the lua just because they're considered firewood 00:46:03 <|amethyst> SamB: and therefore don't prevent travel or resting, and also don't interrupt the player when they come into view 00:46:08 <|amethyst> err, sorry 00:46:12 -!- dienosore has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:12 <|amethyst> _mons_is_always_safe 00:46:18 ah 00:47:06 <|amethyst> probably interruption should be tunable separately 00:47:15 yes 00:47:38 In theory, I think it could be nice if you could autotravel AWAY from these creatures if you were already in LoS, but it would otherwise stop when it saw one 00:47:41 you can rest near loot, but that doesn't mean that you don't get stopped when you first see it 00:47:58 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: right, that's what I meant by interruption tunable separately 00:48:03 Ah, okay 00:48:08 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: interruption only happens when it first comes into view 00:48:29 Well, for a wandering mushroom repeated interruption makes sense, since it could well have moved a lot since the last time you saw it 00:48:31 <|amethyst> hm 00:48:36 it would be permitted to autotravel towards them, too, just not to within range 00:48:39 You might run into it the next time on the other side of the level 00:48:54 Obviously this is not an issue for balistos 00:49:03 so, what do we do that lets you rest when fish are around 00:49:05 <|amethyst> I may be wrong about "interruption only happens when it first comes into view" 00:49:08 <|amethyst> now that I think about it 00:49:21 if you're not somewhere they could get to you 00:49:27 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:31 <|amethyst> SamB: mons_can_hurt_player 00:49:50 so maybe that should be doing something sensible with mushrooms and oka dummies 00:50:01 <|amethyst> Well 00:50:18 <|amethyst> unreachable fish aren't announced either I think? 00:50:37 that's probably wrong anyway 00:54:39 <|amethyst> SamB: what's wrong with the oka dummy behaviour btw? 00:55:28 |amethyst: like ProzacElf says, you can't rest near them 00:55:34 <|amethyst> you can 00:55:39 <|amethyst> just not adjacent 00:55:42 oh? 00:55:46 really? 00:55:48 ok 00:55:50 maybe it changed or something 00:56:15 obviously you shouldn't rest NEXT to them ;-) 00:56:16 <|amethyst> this is true for all stationary monsters without ranged attacks 00:56:32 <|amethyst> s/ranged/known &/ 00:56:48 maybe i actually was next to one when i noticed it 00:57:06 you know what would happen if you rested there? 00:57:07 <|amethyst> also, autotravel doesn't work if you are two squares away 00:57:34 -!- BlinkF has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:57:56 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:10 <|amethyst> (for the same reason as runrest_ignore_monster treating ranges differently for travel; but implemented separately) 00:58:51 |amethyst: maybe you should document the want_move parameters 01:01:23 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:02:09 Zin cure mutations triggers without using the ability by WalkerBoh 01:02:35 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:19 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:06:54 -!- Dixlet_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:56 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:26 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:33 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:44 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:53 it appears that felids can't win sprint III unless they have earth magic 01:18:00 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1661-g683d073: Document the want_move parameter for i_feel_safe and friends. 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=683d0738e747 01:19:05 <|amethyst> rchandra: isn't there a guaranteed stone of tremors? 01:19:25 I didn't think that was guaranteed to work, though dracoomega says it is. 01:20:10 <|amethyst> hm, how does evoker recharge scale in sprint? 01:20:15 Brokenly good 01:20:17 it's kind of insane 01:20:23 Yeah, it's a bit rediculous :P 01:20:33 I feel like optimal play would be to use them all the time, thogh I prefer to only use them sometime 01:20:37 But it's overgenerous lategame even in regular games, I am fairly sure. I mean to examine and adjust it. 01:20:57 I am just finishing up my Forest work first before I attend to that in proper detail 01:21:15 does anybody know why the gloom machine goes mad? 01:21:38 Well, gloom clouds themselves have a high spread and multiplication rate anyway 01:21:50 So possibly a normal strength cloud machine would end up causing a huge pile of gloom 01:22:30 yeah there was gloom all over the map after I first went to tartarus, and it remains. 01:22:31 so should it be set to a really low rate ? 01:22:45 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:26 Possibly? I know nothing of the sprint maps itself, though 01:26:55 -!- Hotroot has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29:41 sprint doesn't scale 01:29:41 so 01:31:12 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:23 Well, by which I meant that they recharge constantly 01:32:24 I was talking about the cloud machine thing 01:35:40 <|amethyst> I added a comment to https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7213 summarizing some of the discussion here 01:35:42 -!- Zephryn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:56 -!- Hotroot1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:36:56 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:01 !lg * sprint won max=dur 01:38:02 976. Kalma the Archmage (L20 DEFE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 10 runes on 2010-12-02 15:15:04, with 22777071 points after 28399 turns and 14:26:29. 01:38:08 oh good, not close 01:38:24 sorry, wrong channel. 01:38:29 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56:19 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1662-g693418d: Clarify that only active ballistomycetes sporulate. 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=693418d45b5c 01:56:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:58 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:12 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:38 -!- BlinkF has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:17:56 -!- tgcid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:57 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:07 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:23:34 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:28 'sporulate' is my word of the day 02:33:21 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:23 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:15 -!- ELRanger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:41:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:42:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: every time I use that word in a commit message, someone comments on it 02:43:10 heh 02:43:19 is that why you use it :) 02:43:23 <|amethyst> I work with mycologists every day, so it's a perfectly normal word to me :) 02:43:28 oh, I see 02:43:58 <|amethyst> (well, every week anyway) 02:44:14 that's like every day 02:52:24 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 02:54:57 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:43 -!- NotIpsum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:05:40 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:07:29 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 03:07:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:20:35 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:51 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:57 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:48 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:51 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:34 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:06 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:45 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:49:06 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 03:50:53 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:02 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:23 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:04 -!- William has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:22 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:59 -!- Ruffell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:29 -!- Ruffell has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:18 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:20:25 Aha, SDL_mixersupports MOD formats via MikMod library. 04:23:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:23:57 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:18 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:22 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:16 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:55 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:07 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:36:46 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:43:49 Keskitalo: oh, cool. i'd still like to proceduralise music somehow and maybe MOD formats lend themselves quite well to this 04:45:27 i've also played with a few mod trackers although this was years and years ago, and everything i produced got lost in a really unfortunate hard disk a long while back :( 04:46:09 Music? Surely this isn't for crawl? :P 04:47:52 kryft: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7629 04:48:30 Oh, interesting 05:08:35 -!- Porost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:51 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 05:10:57 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:17:12 -!- Vandal has quit [] 05:20:49 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:21:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:21:38 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:48 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 05:29:26 -!- AriaC has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:21 -!- AriaB has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:20 -!- magicpoints has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:54 -!- zkyp has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:36:37 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:45:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 05:55:46 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:42 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 06:13:05 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:16:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:26 -!- Datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:31 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:21:37 mumra: I was thinking of starting with turning channels on and off. I've used trackers from since I started making music to this day, so that's a natural environment for me. 06:22:05 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:13 But, Puredata also looked cool from a brief look. 06:23:14 yeah, channel mixing should be able to achieve a lot 06:23:54 the first tracker i used was on the ZX Spectrum ;) 06:24:02 That's pretty cool! 06:24:08 With mod format.. getting software synths, effect plugins etc, and tweaking them with game state, that would be cool. But of course, the old formats don't support that, apart from some filters in IT (which I haven't used myself) 06:24:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 06:24:36 spent quite a while in ScreamTracker and ImpulseTracker as well, used Ableton a bit in recent years but to be honest that has tracker-like elements anyway 06:26:27 oh wait, it was FTII i spent most time on 06:27:52 I started with FT2, and now I use Renoise. 06:29:26 http://dumb.sourceforge.net is a mod-playing library that has functions for channel muting and volume control. BSD-like licence with some tongue-in-cheeck clauses. 06:33:20 this seems to be one of the better free trackers for modern OSes: http://milkytracker.org 06:33:35 and there's modplug: http://openmpt.org/ 06:34:29 Yeah, I've looked a little bit at milkytracker, it has "milkyplay" library available to use, IIRC it's also BSD 06:35:12 Schism Tracker, which is an Impulse Tracker clone, uses (modified?) openmt playing engine IIRC 06:36:23 still probably my favourite mod tune ever: http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=34654 ;) 06:36:39 Yeah, that's a classic :) 06:38:08 It looks like milkyplay doesn't make it hard to mute channels, the structure of the library looks quite clear to me.. 06:38:34 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:37 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 06:38:42 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:07 -!- elliott_ is now known as Guest20320 06:39:11 -!- Guest20320 has quit [Client Quit] 06:39:18 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:34 damn, looking at trackers leads me inexorably onto demoscene pages and now i have to spend all day watching old future crew demos :-> 06:42:50 Hehe :) 06:49:19 -!- Silurio1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:21 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:59:04 -!- Xenobreeder|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:12:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:13:48 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:59 -!- Hotroot has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21:15 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:50 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:15 -!- buppy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:44:49 Vampire Bugs by snow 08:02:33 -!- st_ has quit [] 08:08:15 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:29 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:23 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:20 -!- Wahaha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:18:16 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 08:18:30 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:18:56 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:09 -!- Lokkij has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:29 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:05 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:31 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41:50 -!- Ragnor has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:43:05 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:55 -!- Roph_ has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:30 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:27 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:53:31 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:59 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:32 ahorribleplayer the Acrobat (L14 SpEn) ERROR: range check error (-33 / 17) (Orc:3) 09:05:38 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:37 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:09:38 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:12 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:26:00 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 09:32:28 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:42:09 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:13 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:35 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:58:49 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:53 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:04:17 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:31 -!- Roph_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:10:01 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:15:21 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:46 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:03 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:27:31 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 10:29:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:37:26 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 10:37:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:37:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:21 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 10:40:40 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:19 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 10:45:38 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:10 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:18 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:30 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:25 fr: we need the battlesphere in more places 11:00:33 in more non-random books that is 11:01:17 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:17 -!- Porost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:33 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:09:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:30 guys, can someone spectate me on cao and tell me if they see anything weird? 11:12:47 -!- flun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:13:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:17:40 -!- Rjs has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:45 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:26 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:13 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:30 hi. maybe you remember: last time i spoke up in this channel i had issues porting stonesoup 0.12.2 to FreeBSD. the problem was runtime errors regarding unclosed strings in des-files. 11:36:46 i managed to fix this issue by editing the des files. 11:37:30 weird 11:37:38 but good work 11:39:31 my dire elephant statues didn't transform into dire elephants for some reason, help? 11:39:38 I killed the anaconda and everything 11:39:49 playing on cao 11:41:13 the problem are multiline inline lua commands like this one: https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/grated_community.des#line169 11:41:30 i wonder why this affects me but nobody else. 11:41:48 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:41:54 !dump lexackson 11:41:55 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LexAckson/LexAckson.txt 11:42:05 -!- rwbarton has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:42:12 -!- rwbarton_ is now known as rwbarton 11:42:49 must not be reading the line continue \ properly 11:43:27 yes. but why? :/ 11:44:31 hmm 11:44:44 !dump myrmidette 11:44:44 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/myrmidette/myrmidette.txt 11:44:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:44:58 rwbarton said I died 11:45:10 but I can't find the message 11:45:43 not sure blabber, maybe one of the devs will know 11:47:00 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:50 -!- iasov has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:52 lol 11:49:02 did you know the anaconda's name is Kaa? 11:49:38 ^_^ 11:59:16 meh, now the sdl build is broken. 12:00:18 -!- six40sword has quit [Quit: slain by a gnoll (D:4)] 12:00:33 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:38 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 12:02:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:09 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:02 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.2-7-g64ef654 12:08:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:10:12 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:48 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:21 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:21:08 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:24 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:54 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1662-g693418d (34) 12:24:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:10 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:27:14 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33:05 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:34:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:36:21 -!- Furril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:00 -!- paxed has quit [Quit: brb] 12:40:23 did the error message thing get fixed 12:44:09 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:54 -!- paxed has quit [Changing host] 12:46:07 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:49 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:20 -!- dexap has quit [Changing host] 12:48:26 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:59 -!- Ajonos has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:49:41 -!- paxed has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:49:50 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 12:54:21 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:55:25 Antem the Impaler (L16 MiFi) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 174 failed on turn 29594. (D:17) 12:59:35 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:02:27 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:03 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 13:05:32 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:28 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:06 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:12 blabber: this is exactly the problem i said at the time - when i tried building crawl against a different version of lua, i got errors with those multiline statements 13:13:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:48 i see. 13:14:15 i wonder if this will bite other user too once you decide to update your lua version. 13:14:33 blabber: the question is whether the multiline syntax is nonstandard or whether some versions of lua don't support all the standard syntax .... 13:14:55 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:15:16 unfortunately at the moment we're stuck with the current version of lua due to support for various platforms 13:15:47 i was in favour of switching to luajit for performance reasons, but it was when i tried to use that that i hit these errors 13:15:55 luajit is actually in our contribs folder 13:16:05 but the version of it is an ancient beta 13:16:09 so it's not recommend to use 13:17:42 but, you shouldn't need the contribs folder at all on bsd 13:18:38 Mu_: which error message thing btw? 13:19:40 -!- Villadelfia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:14 blabber: basically, you have to use the right versions of the libraries to match the versions we compile against, otherwise you can run into all sorts of problems 13:20:45 blabber: if we ever upgrade our libraries, then other players will compile against the updated version, so there should never be a problem 13:21:09 and if said version required lua changes then we would discover them then of course 13:21:49 ... i do really hope in particular that we can upgrade sdl at some point but it's not possible right now due to debian support ... 13:21:53 mumra: well, so i guess i'll have to drag some patches with me for the time being. but thats okay. 13:22:07 blabber: or you could make sure you use the right versions of the libraries 13:22:13 -!- Writ has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:14 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:15 -!- johnstein has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:27 my understanding is that unix is supposed to do this kind of dependency management for you 13:22:31 mumra: can't see error messages when crawl can't start in windows console 13:22:54 mumra: i have to use the version provided by the freebsd ports tree 13:23:10 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:10 lua-5.1.5 at the moment. 13:23:18 Mu_: have you tried starting it from the command prompt? 13:23:28 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:35 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:36 ye 13:23:39 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:55 hmm, when i run tiles from the command prompt i get error messages fine 13:24:01 ye me too tiles works 13:24:09 i hate having to test vaults in tiles though 13:24:28 SamB is good at knowing about this kind of stuff 13:24:41 he made some changes related to all of this before 13:24:58 ye i did a bisect thing for him to find out why it was broken just don't know if anyone actually had time to fix it 13:25:42 Mu_: yeah, we figured out what was the culprit too 13:26:11 kilobyte: did you make any progress trying to reproduce that bug? 13:26:24 blabber: i think we have lua 5.1.4 -- at least that seems to be the version in contribs 13:26:25 perhaps in a fresh account? 13:26:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:28 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:28 -!- Sabaki has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:55 cool:) 13:27:07 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:27:07 -!- mason- has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:27:25 Mu_: kilobyte added some code to try setting the console to a UTF-8 mode 13:28:08 which he says is needed to get sensible error messages with internationalized paths 13:28:22 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 13:28:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:28:46 XP doesn't seem to have a clue about this mode, so it doesn't have any effect here 13:32:21 blabber: i think tbh you just need to follow the instructions to the letter in INSTALL.txt 13:32:41 blabber: since it seems you have the wrong lua version you might have the wrong version of other libs 13:33:01 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:08 mumra: I thought the instructions were "apt-get install foo bar baz" 13:33:09 blabber: but if you're still having problems you just need to tell us exactly what build command line you're using and stuff 13:33:17 SamB: yes 13:33:17 that's not going to work on FreeBSD 13:33:26 SamB: i don't think he has the correct prerequisites 13:33:27 and it also doesn't say precisely which versions to use 13:33:51 SamB: well how do other people manage to get it right? 13:33:54 I suppose he could possibly install Debian in a chroot 13:34:15 mumra: sure. but i have only two choices. 1) use stonesoups contribs or 2) use the stuff in the ports tree. 13:34:16 though he might need to install a Debian-compatible kFreeBSD 13:34:17 SamB: it does have instructions for other OSes 13:34:28 but my issues have been fixed for now. 13:34:32 blabber: ports tree?? just use contribs 13:34:56 SamB: INSTALL.txt specifically talks about BSD so maybe it needs updating if this is inaccurate 13:35:43 oh, hmm, maybe you're supposed to use the submodules on FreeBSD 13:35:49 which is not a fun thing to have to do 13:35:53 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:02 mumra: well i think the guide is accureate if you build for your personal use. but i'm working on the port in the ports tree. 13:36:20 i have no idea what the ports tree is 13:36:43 mumra: the third party management system of bsd 13:36:49 mumra: it's a bunch of makefiles saying how to download and build third-party software, basically 13:37:00 oh ok 13:37:08 Building on Unix (Linux, *BSD, Solaris, etc.) 13:37:08 --------------------------------------------- 13:37:30 ^ that is the literal heading in INSTALL.txt, so if this is misleading we should correct it ... 13:37:39 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:04 blabber: it should be possible to get a rough idea of what's needed from the Debian prerequisites section 13:39:08 SamB: well it is working fine. the main issue i have is the fact, that the ports tree lua version has problems with inline multine lua in des files. 13:39:31 but i have a local patch that fixes this issue for the moment. 13:40:41 it seems Debian has liblua5.1-0-dev ranging from 5.1.4-5 to 5.1.5-4 13:40:51 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:02 so you might want to prod whoever maintains the lua 5.1 port 13:42:58 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:22 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 13:47:00 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:03 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:54:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:35 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:43 -!- ackack has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:00 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:49 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:07 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:32 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:56 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:05 -!- sprort has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:06 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:11:19 -!- Guest___ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:12:11 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 14:12:26 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:59 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 14:13:08 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:24:52 maybe that multiline syntax is kind of non-standard 14:25:02 it's definitely what was failing when i tried to use luajit 14:26:16 so blabber is patching Lua or what? 14:27:29 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36:28 he modified the des files 14:36:46 to remove that multi-line syntax )which does look pretty weird tbh) 14:38:36 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:59 is that where you use : in front of every line 14:39:54 no 14:40:03 it's where the lines end in \/ 14:40:37 actually it's /\ 14:40:48 but that's only because it's a multi-line string that has a / 14:40:53 so maybe it could be / \ 14:47:30 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:03 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:12 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 14:51:37 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:37 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:04:42 -!- russ_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:18 -!- Sky2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:37 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:10:13 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:07 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:13:17 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:05 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:02 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 15:20:56 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:12 -!- flowsnake_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:43 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:01 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:32:40 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 15:33:51 sojobo's MR is kind of low 15:34:46 maybe everything else's MR is too high instead... 15:36:23 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:06 well either way a dryad has more magic resistance than sojobo 15:39:21 I guess for uniques maybe the tendency is to just make most of them really hard to hex 15:39:47 72 isn't really bad and it's certainly high enough for him to not get wanded particularly easily 15:39:59 but certainly low enough that an enchanter could actually do things 15:40:52 Pretty unusual for a unique, yes 15:40:57 low enough that it looks like an oversight 15:41:02 what are the other forest uniques? 15:41:04 I wouldn't be surprised 15:41:04 @??pan 15:41:05 Pan (13c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 3/25 | Dam: 35 | 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(72) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 6455 | Sp: mass confusion, metabolic englaciation, sleep, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:41:09 72 come on 15:41:14 pan having 72 sounds weird 15:41:17 Well, The Enchantress is also a spriggan 15:41:26 So you'd expect insane MR no matter what 15:41:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:41:32 @??the enchantress 15:41:34 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 1/40 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2051 | Sp: corona, sleep, haste, banishment, invisibility, teleport self | Sz: little | Int: high. 15:41:34 %??the enchantress 15:41:34 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 1/40 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2051 | Sp: corona, sleep, haste, banishment, invisibility, teleport self | Sz: little | Int: high. 15:41:42 Jory (04V) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 180 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 40, 1505(vampiric) | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(168), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5681 | Sp: crystal spear (3d37), mesmerise, blink close, vampiric draining | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:41:42 <|amethyst> %??jory 15:41:44 Less insane than expected, actually 15:41:48 ye 15:41:52 140 is still pretty insane though 15:42:01 jiangshi (08V) | Spd: 18 (move: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 49-80 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 2705(vampiric), 2705(vampiric) | 07undead, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1011 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 15:42:01 <|amethyst> %??jiangshi 15:42:04 Well, 140 is past the point where you'd want to try piercing it, certainly 15:42:04 but maybe theoretically gettable by some characters 15:42:19 Without ?vuln or something and why would you use that against HER? 15:42:39 yes I mean you can probably kill her with a wand of fireball sometimes 15:42:41 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:55 or magic dart (snicker) 15:43:10 faerie armour is maybe too good for that... 15:43:19 Battlesphere! :P 15:43:25 since I guess she probably really has like 10-12 AC 15:43:30 Yeah 15:43:37 -!- flowsnake_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:57 you could give all three of those uniques another 70 MR 15:44:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:45 This is kind of the flipside of the earlier discussion about players being impossible to hex if they put on any MR 15:44:54 -!- radiosilent has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:05 Heh, perhaps 15:45:15 If it's not good for players to be invulnerable to that stuff then surely the uniques having too much MR across the board (with a very few notable exceptions) is also bad 15:45:47 -!- markfukenni has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:45:58 Well, I think issues of that nature might be better addressed by some changes to how high MR works in general than a few uniques with unusually low MR, perhaps 15:46:04 probably 15:46:17 (Not that I have strong feelings on these two in that regard at the moment) 15:46:36 Saint Roka is still reasonably dangerous with 72 MR I think 15:46:42 i never have any MR on my characters when are players impossible to hex? rings give like what, 20? 15:46:53 they give 40 I think 15:46:58 40, yes 15:47:29 that's not enough to make a normal race quite unhexable, but an elf or etc is fine with it 15:47:57 and a normal race with 1 ring is still quite hard to "get" 15:48:27 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:33 Well, not unhexable from everything, certainly 15:49:04 But like I said, something like an xl 23 human putting on one ring gets close to 80% lower chance of being hexed by non-endgame stuff 15:49:13 Which is a lot of resist for a single ring 15:49:27 (And something with a bit better MR is basically invulnerable under the same circumstances) 15:50:14 idk then, player MR has been dogshit since the enchant nerf ages ago in my opinion, i prize MR++ artefacts hugely 15:50:23 yeah that's the thing 15:50:24 not gonna argue with math though i guess 15:50:36 if you're a normal race with no resist pieces you're a walking target 15:50:51 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130617031112]] 15:51:08 if you have a resist piece then you at least have a fighting chance 15:51:35 if you're an ogre/elf/etc then you're probably fine in general and basically unhexable if you do get a piece 15:52:29 Those poor orcs and dwarves when they have lower than human MR 15:52:35 Was so awful, I am sure 15:52:35 ehe 15:52:56 meanwhile mummy and spriggan never really need resist pieces ever 15:53:15 mummy is horribly crippled by a very common hex, though 15:53:21 right 15:53:34 Mummy may be sort of a special case there 15:53:56 they likely don't have the resist pieces in the window where it's still reliable on them 15:54:03 And felids, deep dwarves, and purple draconians have more MR than mummies, too :P 15:54:14 yes, deep dwarf really needs the help there 15:54:17 Heh 15:54:23 "hex" like statuses and non-mr checks: catoblepas (petrify, clouds); shifters (blink other, ignores check, blocked by caster anyway); giant eyeball (paralysis, ignores check/line of fire, fragile/rare); (shadow) wraith/eidolon (slow, rN check in melee) 15:54:33 felid actually -should- be unhexable just because of how limited they are on equip anyway.... 15:54:48 tarantella, confuse melee and low enough damage to block with high ac 15:54:50 if you had to worry about wearing MR on a race with only rings/amulets.... sheesh 15:54:55 am I forgetting any significant ones 15:55:31 -!- bmfx_ is now known as bmfx 15:56:02 do the leda's guys in forest count 15:56:04 well there is spray I guess 15:56:12 which is an HD check instead? 15:56:19 not sure if ghosts get that 15:56:32 players cannot be blinded 15:56:47 that makes sense given how it works 15:56:59 leda's counts but I hate flight just outright negating stuff as an overall thing 15:56:59 it still goes the other way at least, though 15:57:11 also meph is sort of big 15:57:17 drakes, etc 15:58:01 Well, meph versus players gets a REALLY generous xl check 15:58:13 yeah 15:58:13 Since it has a duration of 1-2 turns per hit, which is way lower than versus monsters 15:58:25 it's very terrible if you get an early ghost with it though 15:58:31 So basically at low levels you get confuse-locked, and later on it does nothing 15:58:32 especially is, say, that ghost is a spriggan 15:58:41 what spells aren't horrible on very early ghosts 15:58:47 Freeze? 15:58:53 Not a monster spell: 'freeze' 15:58:53 %??rat spells:freeze 15:58:57 if I'm doing swamp at like XL18 or something it's still highly inconvenient 15:59:07 I have barely found it even a slight nuissance there 15:59:14 Unless, say, I had allies >.> 15:59:19 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:24 In which case it's rather disruptive 15:59:31 if they're supporting a gang of dragons/hydras by mephing you then the lost actions are very bad 15:59:44 Legendary (entire map) Vitrification on Zot:5 works fine, but some tile graphics don't update by golthoon 15:59:44 Legendary (entire map) Vitrification on Zot:5 works fine, but some tile graphics don't update by golthoon 16:00:01 especially if the terrain is bad (and the terrain is almost always bad) 16:00:28 but that basically is limited to the rune vault 16:00:36 and that should be at -least- that dangerous 16:00:37 I think possibly the resist chance could be flattened a little 16:00:50 Better resist at lower levels, worse resist at higher ones (compared to now) 16:01:21 oh right I keep forgetting I'm supposed to make mister lernaean have a tiny chance to spawn in the two other "plain" swamp rune vaults 16:01:28 maybe I should make a patch of that right now 16:01:51 I can't wait to see people get surprised by that 16:02:05 is that a "yes" 16:02:17 it's a yes if you want to make it :P 16:02:49 I mean it's not like I can tell people what to do, that's silly 16:02:53 pff, I have to wait for other devs before I get to not have to wait for patches 16:04:43 SwissStopwatch: Clearly of a different mind than ##crawl :P 16:05:13 he's a tiles player, of course he's of a different mind than ##crawl 16:05:34 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 16:05:56 yes 16:06:32 Haha 16:07:54 -!- flowsnake_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:35 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:02 Why not make Monsieur Lernaean randomly roam Swamps then? :p 16:09:26 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:09:38 -!- lorinal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:09:57 Though on a more thought out side, who doesn't dive down to Swamps:5. 16:10:32 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:53 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:57 huh, CREDITS.txt looks much messier than I remember it looking in the past 16:13:37 speak of the devil 16:14:23 it's very hard to scan down looking for something 16:14:32 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:53 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:15:26 except in the not-devs section 16:15:30 that section is nice 16:16:03 they get handles listed and everything 16:17:05 radiosilent: are you trying to join the devteam or something? 16:17:16 -!- radiosilent is now known as tenofswords 16:18:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:34 oh 16:19:10 so people have started catching on or something? 16:19:48 it is just that I have decided to make a two-minute patch 16:25:35 -!- imantor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:51 <|amethyst> SamB: We should mention TZer0, Aleksi, and (once snark gets a chance to add RHF to Sequell) joosa in there 16:27:34 can we try to avoid huge word- or name-wrapped lists? 16:27:43 <|amethyst> SamB: and I think there have been several new contributors who are not yet mentioned (qoala and blackcustard) 16:27:45 and instead use, say, one-name-per-line lists? 16:28:28 <|amethyst> no objection, but that would mean the current devteam takes the whole first page and then some 16:29:49 we could list ourselves at the bottom 16:29:56 humble as we are 16:33:10 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 16:35:37 arbitrary numbers, always hard to create 16:37:07 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 16:38:25 trivia time: there is a slightly better than a one in a quadrillion chance that one of the swamp vaults places no enemies in the rune vault 16:38:35 Hahaha 16:39:22 <|amethyst> how much state does our RNG have? 16:39:23 we can live with that I think 16:39:36 |amethyst: you mean it probably can't actually happen? 16:39:41 <|amethyst> Or, rather, how much do we seed it with? 16:39:42 also, how much is a quadrillian? 16:39:52 ion 16:39:53 whatever 16:39:58 <|amethyst> 1e15 16:40:13 <|amethyst> unless tenofswords uses the long scale 16:40:41 no that's correct 16:41:15 one in 1e11 chance for only swamp drakes, at least 16:41:16 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:41:26 "say, why does this minivault have the rune in it" 16:42:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:57 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1663-gdb0e52b: Reformat credits 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 193+ 142-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db0e52b4f1b9 16:44:40 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:31 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:57:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:59:29 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:29 -!- mason--- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:29 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:38 -!- appleKen is now known as bananaken 17:19:29 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:55 -!- plantmann has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27:26 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1664-g4f38b20: Fix Lava Orc zotdef in SDL tiles too (#7224) 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f38b208ed95 17:27:26 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1665-g4d0a004: Whitespace fix. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d0a0040f21f 17:27:26 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1666-gadafc80: Don't complain in checkwhite about empty files. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=adafc8040e53 17:29:50 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:53 -!- six40sword has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:43 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:35:46 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36:28 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:22 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:00 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:59 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:57 -!- flun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:45:40 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 17:49:44 ??crawl[6] 17:49:44 crawl[6/18]: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4161i8U6k1qj4nfso1_400.jpg 17:50:15 -!- agentgt has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:52 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:59:38 -!- agentgt has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:49 -!- markfukenni has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:05:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:08:42 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:20 -!- Silurio1 is now known as silurio 18:13:07 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:19:51 -!- varmin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:01 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:15 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:38 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:36 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:23 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 18:46:58 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 18:47:25 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:47:49 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:49:23 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:49:27 ??clan 18:49:27 clan[1/2]: Europe Crawl server, located in Germany. http://crawl.lantea.net:8080/ or crawl.lantea.net, port 22, username: terminal, key: http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key.ppk See {putty} for Windows users. Runs 0.10-0.12 and trunk (DCSS, Zot, Sprint, Tut) 18:51:42 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:53:39 -!- iasov has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:59:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:59:18 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:00:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 19:04:54 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:11:37 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:55 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:22 -!- kirisa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:17:28 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:33 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:30:55 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:35:17 -!- silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:19 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:23 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:06 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:41:09 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:27 -!- WalkerBoh has left ##crawl-dev 19:41:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:48 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:07 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:04:36 fire crab (04t) | Spd: 11 | HD: 8 | HP: 38-66 | AC/EV: 9/6 | Dam: 1504(fire:8-15), 1504(fire:8-15) | !sil | Res: 06magic(42), 04fire+++ | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 492 | Sp: flame blast (d12) | Sz: small | Int: insect. 20:04:36 %??fire crab 20:04:45 ice dragon (16D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 74-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 17, 17, 1707(trample) | cold-blooded, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1229 | Sp: cold blast (3d24) | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 20:04:45 %??ice dragon 20:08:06 ??human 20:08:06 human[1/1]: The average race. Their strength, dexterity and intelligence bases are all 6. Their natural magic resistance is three times their character level, which is the default. They start out with no racial "mutations". To learn their natural aptitudes, type !apt Hu in this channel. HP gain is normal, gains +1 random stat per four levels. 20:08:27 !apt Hu 20:08:28 Hu: Fighting: 0, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: 0, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Stab: 0, Shields: 0, Traps: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: 0, MP: 0 20:09:07 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:12:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:21 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:03 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:37 -!- myrmidette_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:23:59 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:51 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:30:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:32:39 -!- Aves has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:32:52 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:01 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:40:05 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 20:41:57 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:44:44 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:46:13 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:57 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:16 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:16 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 20:56:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1640-ge1ec9be: Give rod spells a failure chance 10(35 hours ago, 2 files, 41+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e1ec9be04f33 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1641-gfb4151b: Display rod spell failure chance in description 10(35 hours ago, 2 files, 24+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb4151b1b072 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1642-gbf93a03: Standardise number of beasts in Box 10(32 hours ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf93a03b1dec 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1643-g5831262: Standardise charges for Sack of Spiders too 10(32 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5831262af8bb 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1644-g4b4a313: Fix punctuation syntax 10(30 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b4a31331ab3 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1645-gb762580: Implement a "jammed" state for rods 10(30 hours ago, 12 files, 111+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b7625808fb17 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1646-g16116ea: Make rod failure much more likely when confused 10(30 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=16116eac4862 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1647-g1507ed5: Remove the chance modifier for Blade Hands 10(30 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1507ed51f76e 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1648-ga4e2881: Fix some rod-related messaging 10(27 hours ago, 2 files, 9+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4e288175eab 20:59:36 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1649-gb61ef5d: More webs and less spiders (Sack of Spiders) 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b61ef5ddcf09 20:59:36 ... and 4 more commits 21:02:29 mumra: that's a lot of commits to push at one time! 21:04:46 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:06:30 rf: make the manticore's volley a bolt instead of single-target projectile 21:06:39 um, fr 21:08:53 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:29 <|amethyst> myrmidette: so they're more likely to kill their allies? 21:10:38 <|amethyst> or as an anti-summon measure? 21:11:22 SamB: that doesn't look like a lot of commits, i only overflow chei by 4 :P 21:11:36 now, if i went and _merged_ this branch, that would be a lot of commits! 21:11:54 anti-summon 21:12:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:12:33 (there are several reasons why it's not at all ready to merge, but i might cherry-pick some bits like the chimera / Box of Beasts stuff) 21:13:33 <|amethyst> myrmidette: probably that makes more sense on a different monster where the attack wasn't flavoured as physical 21:13:50 mumra, chimera? 21:13:54 I feel sorry for certain plans that got destroyed 21:14:16 <|amethyst> mumra: I know I've already been outvoted, but for the record I prefer "chimaera" 21:14:26 |amethyst, why not? physical affects everything? 21:14:47 <|amethyst> myrmidette: because then you're implying they shoot their spines so hard that they go straight through you 21:14:59 |amethyst: there was a vote? 21:15:00 <|amethyst> myrmidette: which doesn't match up with, say, arrowas 21:15:03 Well, bolts of penetration penetrate things just fine without killing them 21:15:03 <|amethyst> s/was/ws/ 21:15:06 no, only that part of the spines hits you 21:15:13 Not that I am arguing in support of this specific idea, either 21:15:16 it says volley of spikes, so I assume there are a lot 21:15:21 <|amethyst> myrmidette: ahhh 21:15:28 maybe there could be a limit on targets hit 21:15:32 <|amethyst> myrmidette: kilobyte was working on "shotgun" type spells like that 21:15:32 Incidentally, rod failure makes me somewhat wary here 21:15:45 isn't that the case with some bolts already? 21:15:53 <|amethyst> myrmidette: I think manticores would be a good candidate for that, yes 21:16:16 Though I am not sure, statistics-wise, how bad this chance is 21:16:25 <|amethyst> I figured bolts of penetration were magically enchanted 21:16:46 It seems a little odd to me, though, that one point of dex is worth a whole skill level of evocations 21:16:47 <|amethyst> I guess manticores are magical beasts themselves so that wouldn't be terribly out of line 21:16:56 I always thought bolts of fire/cold lose some of their energy when they hit something 21:17:05 so if they hit too many things, they dissipate 21:17:06 They lose a point of range 21:17:06 <|amethyst> myrmidette: they lose one unit of distance 21:17:12 |amethyst, exactly 21:17:46 but yeah there is a difference 21:17:55 between losing damage and distance 21:18:01 <|amethyst> myrmidette: kilobyte's shotgun idea would instead have the damage reduced (by exactly enough to kill the thing) 21:18:28 sounds cool 21:18:49 so, my fr is then to make manticores into shotguns 21:18:59 <|amethyst> myrmidette: (well, I think it was more complicated than that, because you might evade some but not all of the projectiles) 21:19:10 It should be pointed out that I am not sure this would change much about them in most situations 21:19:17 Since AoE is far less interesting when it is not the player using it 21:19:25 Mostly the manticore will still be firing at a single thing 21:19:29 I have the feeling that this would be very gorgeous bikeshed painting 21:19:31 DracoOmega, it would prevent you from blocking them 21:19:33 bah 21:19:44 and probably make them harder to evade 21:19:51 and maybe it would be more affected by ac 21:19:57 like sandblast is already 21:20:10 is there an easy way to convert an image to vault? 21:20:29 sandblast should also be made into a shotgun if kilobyte implements it 21:20:49 you know, since manticore needles are unique to manticores 21:20:59 |amethyst: my new iron rod has a shotgun-like blast 21:21:00 you could change the stats without a unique implementation 21:21:17 buppy: as a vault maker I am snickering under my breath 21:21:20 ??sandblast 21:21:21 maybe i'm overlapping with kilobyte's work a bit here :( 21:21:21 sandblast[1/1]: Wield stones (sling bullets don't count) to do more damage and increase range from 2 to 3 with this spell. Sandblast with stones maxes out at 2d20 damage, which is really good for a level 1 spell, although damage reduction from enemy AC is applied three times instead of once. Ogres and Trolls can use large rocks, with damage maxing out at 3d20. 21:21:23 <|amethyst> tenofswords: right, I wouldn't have brought it up if people weren't already working on it for a different reason 21:21:46 tenofswords: well, what do you do? 21:22:02 what sort of image? 21:22:10 <|amethyst> buppy: to some extent you might be able to use the XPM image format 21:22:12 mumra: I've been pretty busy the last few days, yeah. Your rod of iron is pretty same as the boomstick. 21:22:30 <|amethyst> buppy: it has the option to store the file ASCII-encoded 21:22:32 doodle, then manually build a thing from scratch based off of the full shape before the many, many details, using a text-rotator and copy-paste to be make big layout tweaks 21:22:42 |amethyst: oh right, forgot about that format. Here's the image: http://i.imgur.com/zjxCMHD.png 21:23:06 you dart out from under the throwing net! 21:23:10 is that a flight thing? 21:23:18 oops wrong channel 21:23:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:51 <|amethyst> myrmidette: (yet it is; one chance in three to avoid being netted) 21:24:03 <|amethyst> oops 21:24:10 <|amethyst> sorry, one chance in three when you are confused 21:24:25 <|amethyst> guaranteed, it appears, when you are flying 21:24:34 <|amethyst> that seems wrong... 21:24:39 now see I have to wonder what is the difference between this and the 21:24:49 kilobyte: cool. i knew you'd mentioned the boomstick, i was already thinking about this before then, so i had a go at it 21:24:57 kilobyte: i have an idea for a gatling rod too :P 21:25:06 <|amethyst> you are 21:25:12 oh oh oh I see a problem already; crawl level limits are actually 80x70, not 80x80 21:25:18 <|amethyst> you're part of the Doom conspiracy 21:25:44 Oh, I'm retarded. The image editor I was using (mtpaint) has an "export ascii" option. Very convenient! 21:26:04 <|amethyst> I say if we're going to copy an early 90s game whose name ends in "oom" it should be Loom 21:26:27 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:33 <|amethyst> Though I guess a Loom/Doom crossover would be kind of need 21:26:36 <|amethyst> s/need/neat/ 21:26:55 |amethyst: maybe a misc item that's an ai core which you can insert into different things to animate them? 21:26:59 I wonder how many times I'd repeat the same things about what's important to making a vault good before I give up on talking to people who just want to make something pretty and or a ridiculous gimmick 21:27:07 mumra: it has no difference of behaviour in subsequent shots, but the shots themselves have a more elaborate rule 21:27:17 <|amethyst> mumra: reversible spells 21:27:27 mumra: there's a bunch of individual pellets, each simulated on its own 21:27:28 oh well I'll just fix up vaults once they're actually in if they do get in 21:27:46 kilobyte: yes i wanted to implement it like that (there's a note in the commit about it) 21:28:06 kilobyte: i was just copying the lightning rod initially to get the spread targetting implemented, pellets were to come later 21:28:13 kilobyte: did you already implement the boomstick? 21:28:32 the code is already there, but not even compiled once (written on my phone on a plane a few months ago, and I never got around to finish it) 21:28:43 untested because four hour builds are a bit unfun 21:28:43 hehe 21:28:54 <|amethyst> tenofswords: I'll commit your vault-making guide so you only have to say it once :) 21:29:22 lacks a targetter, too 21:29:27 <|amethyst> tenofswords: s/guide/manifesto/ 21:29:29 |amethyst: well the thing is that damn thing is _definitely_ not "put into the main project" degrees of done 21:30:09 kilobyte: well this targetter works nicely, i just needed to create multiple rays for the pellets, distributed within the cone, to perform the actual damage 21:30:17 the spreading effect on multiple turns is nice too 21:30:38 mumra: actually, yours should fit there, as because of misses the affected area is a cone; it's just that anything behind someone should be shown as "maybe hit" 21:30:47 it makes it good for clearing groups but not very effective in corridors 21:31:02 <|amethyst> tenofswords: no rush, though of course it doesn't have to be perfect (just look at the game itself!) 21:31:18 well when a lot of the things I do are perfectionist edits 21:31:53 <|amethyst> :) 21:32:01 kilobyte: right, yeah; i didn't think about taking blocked paths into account. although i thought really most of the cone is "maybe hit" since you don't know what paths the pellets are going to take 21:32:07 depends how many pellets you simulate of course 21:32:24 and how evenly they're spread 21:32:53 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:54 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 21:33:19 also, rods that are an one-hit pony tend to be boring 21:33:41 lightning rod, the most boring item in the game 21:33:49 kilobyte: you mean rods with one spell? 21:34:26 or that kill everything in one hit? 21:34:54 who's definition of boring are we working with anyway 21:36:00 what I got implemented but untested has: 1. kind of Doom's basic shotgun (narrow spread), 2. kind of Doom's super shotgun (better damage but spread so bad not all pellets will hit the broad side of a door), 3. fiery shells (resistible but better against vulnerable stuff) 21:37:35 tenofswords: lightning rod has multiple modes of operation too, you just select them a different way: 1. single shot (weak), 2. sustained shot, 3. arc (better total damage but only against groups) 21:38:27 and SamB is right, players tend to conflate "interesting" with "overpowered" 21:38:37 and SamB is right, players tend to conflate "interesting" with "overpowered" 21:38:49 boots of running are boring 21:39:01 I don't think they're that boring, personally >.> 21:39:12 are non-interesting 21:39:17 In the last game I found boots of running in, I completely forgot I was wearing them. <_< 21:39:32 (I almost typed "boots of ruining"...) 21:39:32 sorry for killing you horribly with that volcano nessos, grunt 21:39:35 grr sorry for doubled messages, new xfce and its broken handling of window switching between monitors 21:39:42 !lg . ckiller=nessos s=place 21:39:43 2 games for Grunt (ckiller=nessos): Volcano, D:11 21:39:45 evoacble super-speed might be more interesting than constant slight speed 21:39:49 I don't even remember that. 21:39:55 !lg . ckiller=nessos place=volcano -tv 21:39:56 1. SGrunt, XL14 VpNe, T:32631 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 21:40:06 well I was going through interesting killers in the past month in volcanos 21:40:07 like, evoke for spriggan speed for 20-30 turns 21:40:47 with what, control teleport evokcation difficulty? :P 21:41:26 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: the worry is that it would become tedious instead of just boring 21:41:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:41:38 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: would need something like XP recharge 21:41:48 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:50 yeah, some sort of nasty downside 21:42:05 boots of only running 21:42:19 You are too terrified to do anything but run! 21:42:21 implement my boots of mnoleg :J 21:42:30 <|amethyst> tenofswords: boots of vampire? 21:42:36 "boots of Mnoleg" 21:42:38 like that "seven mile shoes" fairy tale, where you can step only seven miles but not anything in between 21:42:39 <|amethyst> s/vampire/batform/ 21:42:44 Double movement rate, evoke for parrow and miasma? 21:43:00 (and the protagonist was not smart enough to triangulate) 21:43:01 Grunt: permahaste, can't be removed for any reason 21:43:02 if only there was running water anywhere to forbid the boots to go over 21:43:14 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: do they use the boot slot or the hat slot? 21:43:16 Wait, those would be boots of Gloorx, not Mnoleg. 21:43:22 ...how do I make mistakes like that <_< 21:43:23 |amethyst: yes 21:43:25 <|amethyst> haha 21:43:27 boots that slow you when not evoked? 21:43:35 Clearly boots of Mnoleg evoke for XXX and Malign Gateway instead <_< 21:43:39 Oh, and eyeballs! 21:43:51 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:02 so how long until 27-runers 21:44:18 boots of make everything in-sight have swift-speed 21:44:19 mumra: I played with the branch a bit; do you think the shard is too spammable? 21:44:42 <|amethyst> SamB: we'll swap out Hell or Pan if it comes to that :) 21:44:56 gammafunk: the whole point of the Tome is to be spammable 21:45:11 gammafunk: it's supposed to be balanced by backfires 21:45:27 kilobyte: Well the new item seems to not have backfires that are too bad 21:45:33 *not too bad 21:46:02 SamB: 0.14 includes dwrven halls, the factory, 4 more hells, neo tomb, the ur-swamp 21:46:17 foo of destruction: a poor man's disc of storms 21:46:20 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: and the Abyssal Stair 21:46:21 gammafunk: current tome's backfires are bad enough I had only one non-felid situation when it was my primary means to do things on an occassion 21:46:37 ontoclasm: is the factory where they make all the permafood and weapons 21:47:02 the factory is where dummy species become their actual monsters, obviously 21:47:19 get to fight things like moths, elementals, giants, giant lizards, drakes, ghosts, 21:47:55 kilobyte: I'm not sure how back the shard's backfires are in comparison, but they didn't seem very bad in wizmode testing 21:48:02 I'm sure he's still working on it, though 21:48:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 21:48:36 (my statement of destruction's gimmick being done better by disc of storms was geniune) 21:48:50 gammafunk: on a non-conjuring spriggan, I wanted to do the hellion isle (both for completism and because it had randart jewelry on a jewelry-low char), and quickly ran out of damaging wands, resorted to the tome then 21:49:44 ontoclasm: ur-swamp?? 21:50:05 ur-swamp: death drakes, green deaths, tentacled monstrosity, 21:50:16 dang it I can't remember what name those werewolves were going to have 21:50:44 kilobyte: i have mixed opinion about multi-spell rods; the choice is certainly interesting, but the interface is a bit of a pain 21:51:09 kilobyte: lightning rod is so nice because it all that flexibility with a simple interface 21:51:10 Clearly have multi-spell rods randomly pick one of their spells. <_< 21:51:25 did we rename that one layout to layout_eels yet 21:51:41 Grunt: well that is my redesign for Rod of Destruction I (the spell list will scale up to better spells with higher Evo) 21:52:12 (...what happens to the other rods of destruction? o_O) 21:52:36 gammafunk: the Shard is currently almost identical to Tome ; it just doesn't have the freezing cloud backfire, basically 21:52:45 gammafunk: backfires also get less common at high evo 21:52:59 gammafunk: and finally it has a fixed number of charges rather than suddenly disappearing possibly after one use 21:53:12 so it's spammable but only for as long as it lasts 21:53:20 (however i have a better design planned than this) 21:53:41 Grunt: Rod of Destruction III became the Iron Rod already 21:54:00 Grunt: Rod of Destruction II becomes the flame-thrower / gatling gun / whatever this idea turns out to be 21:54:08 (call it the Iron Crossbow; rename the spell back to Iron Bolt >_>) 21:54:27 but Iron Rod is a great name 21:54:46 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:55:02 i wanted to change the base weapon type a bit as well 21:55:07 maybe something a bit more ... crowbarlike 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1667-g37ef2b3: Fix spectral/simulacrum shapeshifters always having 0 maxhp. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=37ef2b3bebac 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1668-gf4a4d88: Give rods of destruction more descriptive names. 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 17+ 36-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4a4d883ff06 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1669-gd026803: Put Zin's ability to cure all mutations onto 'W'. 10(64 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d0268033c6a8 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1670-g1037f5c: Fix fruit acquirement for foodless races. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1037f5c5ca1d 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1671-gf168501: Be more verbose and consistent about Ozo Armour failures. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f168501682ee 21:55:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1672-g2e244fd: Make Ozocubu's Armour unmemorizable for Lava Orcs. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e244fd37d63 21:55:16 Iron Rod and I-Beam 21:55:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:42 oh, is that it 21:55:59 undead shapeshifters 21:56:28 Running into random shapeshifter simulacra feels really off, incidentally 21:56:39 mumra: what about making the shard infinite? Because with charges, it'd be redundant with wands. 21:56:40 fix fruit acquirement? how? 21:56:54 _The spectral shapeshifter changes into a komodo dragon! 21:57:10 oh. i guess it would matter for djinn taking fedhas. 21:57:15 so, undead can polymorph in this _one_ instance 21:57:16 kilobyte: well in practise it's no different than the Tome, the number of uses you get is just a bit more normalised 21:57:29 kilobyte: but yeah it could be a recharger instead 21:57:41 <|amethyst> tenofswords: do shapeshifter zombies shapeshift? 21:57:45 yes 21:57:54 mumra: that's my main beef with current tome, rather than randomness people whine about 21:57:56 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:00 kilobyte: or are you thinking unlimited use like the Disc, with the self-damage offsetting it? 21:58:06 perhaps I am being arbitrary in not supporting a select gimmick, but really 21:58:29 tenofswords: _zombies_? 21:58:42 tenofswords: you can't get shapeshifter zombies or skeletons in a real game 21:58:50 Yes, you can 21:58:51 off-hand term for grouping together spectrals and simulacra and everything else, blah blah blah 21:58:53 I have seen them multiple times 21:59:00 As random spawns (in necromancer bands, I think) 21:59:12 Possibly this is not INTENDED, but it has been happening nonetheless 21:59:16 DracoOmega: hrm, lemme see 21:59:21 spectral shapeshifters and shapeshifter simulacra that shift are pretty bad 21:59:27 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:28 Well, they don't shift 21:59:30 So they don't really do mucjh 21:59:33 mine did! 21:59:38 It... did? 21:59:38 perhaps I need to update 21:59:40 I never saw that happen 21:59:46 * tenofswords shrugs 21:59:47 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:15 mumra: All these cool evocation attacks make me think about making a version of jump with a fancier attack, but using something like the XP recharge that you mentioned in the tavern thread. 22:00:17 |amethyst: I had some rework of cannot_memorise that conflicted with your changes; could you tell me what's the reason you kept lich form unable to memorize Death's Door? 22:00:21 mumra: A self-damage backlash on it might be interesting. I do think it's more interesting than charges, given that it's already sort of like a wand of (better) random effects 22:00:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:00:53 |amethyst: it's weird to conflate being unable to _currently_ use it with being unable to memorize 22:00:57 gammafunk: For what it's worth, I'd rather the boots have a more plain but non-xp-limited version of the effect 22:01:04 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:17 kilobyte: That's a problem for a lot of things being considered useless in lich form, I think 22:01:18 DracoOmega: yeah when you boil it down, it's pretty redundant right now. the thing is the self-damage was often really harsh; freezing clouds or immolation 22:01:26 DracoOmega: yeah, I think it has a lot of merit the current way, but the temptation is there :) 22:01:27 mumra: Yes, I meant something more specific to the item 22:01:48 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:52 mumra: Tailored to whatever seems reasonable (like, straight non-lethal hp lose of a certain degree sometimes seems okay in theory to me) 22:02:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I intended that one as a refactoring 22:02:09 DracoOmega: i had this idea for a new effect where it fires random beams or creates small explosions of random elements around you 22:02:11 mumra: I'd say the opposite, the harsh self-damage was what made the tome interesting! 22:02:23 -!- tolly has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:31 DracoOmega: so the random explosions can damage you a bit, and the beams could bounce and hurt you 22:02:36 <|amethyst> kilobyte: (well, the lich/wisp one was a bugfix, "Simplify" was a refactoring) 22:02:55 |amethyst: yeah, your changes were quite similar to mine; I dropped the "undead" argument completely 22:02:56 mumra: Might be a bit too much like disc of storms at that point, maybe? If the risk is 'explosions that might bounce and hit you' 22:03:15 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:20 kilobyte: freezing clouds also have the annoying factor of potion damage, and also they're completely lethal until a certain point, so i can see how the current design would put people off ever even trying the item 22:03:31 could axe non-beam effects too 22:03:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I had been thinking about having it return a maybe_bool instead 22:03:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but if you remove the form stuff entirely (and I do think that makes sense) that's not necessary at all 22:04:03 |amethyst: I had it return a const char*, with the fail message 22:04:36 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that makese sense too 22:05:12 <|amethyst> s/ese/es/ 22:05:32 DracoOmega: any kind of self-damage infinite item automatically has some overlap with Disc tbh, however the self-damage is affected 22:05:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: as far as removing the Lich memoristion prohibitions... I believe that would have to be re-added in one other place 22:05:55 mumra: This is true, but I think it overlaps a lot less if the mechanism of this self-damage isn't so close 22:05:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: maybe it was for the spell_is_useless check? 22:06:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I remember seeing something that depended on you_cannot_memorise 22:08:10 DracoOmega: there aren't really all that many other types of self-damage available :P (clouds, what else?) 22:08:20 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, there do seem to be a few places that use you_cannot_memorise() to mean you_cannot_cast, so I guess a second function is needed? 22:08:23 fr: Mass Haste 22:08:47 Grunt: that's called "potion of slowing" 22:09:02 mumra: Well, in this case I did say that I thought direct hp loss sometimes would be okay. 'You are caught in a magical backlash!' or whatever 22:09:06 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that could be one advantage of keeping the boolean parameter instead of returning a string 22:09:22 Guarenteed non-lethal, perhaps 22:09:36 mumra: for allies!! :b 22:09:52 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you could instead use the boolean for "can't memorise at all" and return the "can't cast" status 22:10:09 |amethyst: or perhaps the argument could be on input rather than output, ie, "transient" as in the caller 22:10:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: though I guess a flag would be better than an out-parameter 22:10:13 <|amethyst> yeah 22:10:22 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:10:44 <|amethyst> and rename the function to you_cannot_cast 22:11:11 <|amethyst> though 22:11:16 <|amethyst> what about wisps? 22:11:46 <|amethyst> it's transient for them, *but* they should also be prevented from memorising 22:12:01 <|amethyst> I guess that would be handled in the memorisation code instead of this function 22:13:02 <|amethyst> Since they can't memorise, not because they can't cast, but because they can't manipulate items 22:13:15 DracoOmega: maybe flavour as "the shard draws on your life force to cast spells" or whatever. but "caught in a magical backlash" basically _is_ a localised explosion just without rendering one and without damaging anything else! 22:13:26 <|amethyst> (though that raises the question of Vehumet gifts) 22:13:52 |amethyst: could be explained by their semi-confusion 22:13:56 mumra: I suppose it feels different to me, but that may be subjective. However the life force thing sounds good. 22:14:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah 22:14:21 mumra: I kind of think I'd prefer if the amount it drew was noticably randomized, though? Or just only happened sometimes? 22:14:27 mumra: a localised explosiont which damages people like you is more than that 22:14:39 s/like/around/ 22:15:03 <|amethyst> it's not very localised then :) 22:15:04 -!- Arkaniad|Desktop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:15:08 yeah 22:15:19 <|amethyst> or maybe the message is translated 22:15:21 i mean, the current design *features* explosions which damage you and other stuff 22:15:25 <|amethyst> *BOUM* 22:15:28 of course this is awesome for a djinni 22:15:38 and presumably the currently design predates disc of storms 22:16:06 so it would be more correct to say that disc of storms _already_ overlapped tome of destruction ... 22:16:07 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:18 Well, except the disc of storms is good :P 22:16:26 disc of storms: you know what you'll get 22:16:49 DracoOmega: 1. since recently, 2. conflating "interesting" with "powerful" again 22:17:07 Yes, I realize it's only been good since it was useable with rElec 22:17:18 of course, an useless item is boring 22:17:22 However, I think it was interesting even before it was powerful, and manages to be both at present 22:18:01 <|amethyst> what about durable hostile summoning instead of explosions? 22:18:09 <|amethyst> or is that too ignorable or too cheatable? 22:18:33 I don't think it's that ignorable if they're durable 22:18:38 it already has a hostile summon chance too 22:18:41 i forgot about that one 22:18:47 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 22:18:53 "XXX of destruction" suggests things that Vehumet likes only 22:18:53 Oh, when you didn't mention it I somehow assumed you removed that 22:19:12 <|amethyst> Tome always felt more like Makhleb to me 22:19:13 kilobyte: well makhleb has destruction abilities 22:19:16 oh, indeed, aboms 22:19:17 <|amethyst> Shard of Hell 22:20:20 DracoOmega: no, i only removed the freezing cloud; which was apparently kilobyte's favourite :P 22:20:28 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:20:40 I think it is pretty widely disliked though, and I certainly support its removal 22:20:53 Shard of Hell is sort of a neat name 22:21:01 Could really make all the backfires hostile demon summons 22:21:07 mumra: no, _item destruction_ sucks, indeed; it's hurting you and others around what's cool 22:21:29 With their rank scaled based on evo, maybe? 22:21:54 So you get more powerful blasts (they'd need to be reasonably good in this scenario) with the chance of worse visitors 22:22:19 -!- sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:23:35 "Shard of Doom" 22:24:03 what was that thing tenofswards was saying about 80x80 -- was that related to doom somehow? 22:24:05 "It's all in the Shards!" 22:24:10 -!- rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:24:11 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I don't know, I worry that that would mean people artificially slow down their evo training 22:24:12 ... maybe one of kilobyte's new rods should be Rod of Doom ... 22:24:49 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: since your ability to deal with the threat doesn't scale with evo 22:25:03 |amethyst: Well, you could fire more shots from the shard of hell at it! :P 22:25:48 |amethyst: I do see your point though, and am wary of same, but it sort of makes sense that the more strongly you are tapping into hellish powers, the more they might take notice 22:25:53 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:53 <|amethyst> I mean, people would find the breakpoint where you start getting, say, balrugs and such; and train their evo just below that 22:26:06 grunt: how murderous is forest? 22:26:12 o_O? 22:26:13 <|amethyst> just like ranged skills and trog 22:26:22 That's kind of a random question to ask suddenly. :b 22:26:23 |amethyst: Would they if the higher levels were actually noticably better? 22:26:26 |amethyst: except i'd use mon-pick to implement the monster list, so there wouldn't be any noticable breakpoints 22:26:36 |amethyst: and also the spells you get do scale up wit hevo 22:26:48 so actually your ability to handle the threat does scale up 22:26:55 Grunt: isn't it your baby? 22:27:25 In a sense, but I'm not really sure what kind of an answer you're looking for or why you're asking in the first place. 22:27:42 aw, just spectate ;) 22:27:53 you can handle the threat with the shard's evocations! :p 22:28:03 I do like that sort of hellish circle here 22:28:07 <|amethyst> :) 22:28:13 You keep digging a deeper and deeper hole 22:28:18 !lm bh x=src 22:28:18 2894. [2013-06-18 06:48:22] [src=cszo] bh the Djinn Blade (L24 DjBe) killed Azrael on turn 134006. (Elf:3) 22:28:25 Also it would make great tv :P 22:28:31 <|amethyst> yeah, the idea of players desperately swallowing more demons to eat a spider does sound appealing 22:29:26 are you discussing removing the tome of bad 22:29:37 More like making the tome of bad into a shard of good 22:29:50 Except by 'good' I mean 'hell' 22:29:54 <|amethyst> Lightli: contrary to popular opinion we do things other than remove content :) 22:30:05 |amethyst: we do!? 22:30:15 example: the 3 new races 22:30:21 I should have another commit bundle in a week or so, I hope! :P 22:31:10 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:35 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:51 ??forest 22:31:52 forest[1/5]: A new branch in trunk! Has all the spriggan monsters, including new types enchanters and assassins, tengus of all types, and Satyrs (hexes+ranged combat). Only one layout so far. 22:32:09 ... most unfun god you can possibly have in the Forest 22:32:10 bh: i have a half-thought-out idea for gargoyles. basically melding with walls could be ok if you can only ever go 1 wall deep so you're always adjacent to a floor square 22:32:11 and that. A branch so new I'm scared 22:32:20 so monsters can still hit you from the adjacent squares 22:32:29 isn't that what nomes had? 22:32:42 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:32:54 i never looked at nomes 22:32:55 <|amethyst> mumra: rock only? 22:33:06 the problem with that is that rock worms also do that 22:33:07 i think innate passwall is probably pretty absurd 22:33:12 and you can't hit them 22:33:13 nomes could go through any wall 22:33:27 nomes sound like a bad idea 22:33:39 metal took a while to enter and exit though 22:33:56 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not permarock hopefully? 22:34:16 any wall IIRC 22:34:20 <|amethyst> ow 22:34:22 welp 22:34:25 that's just stupid 22:34:34 and that's coming from me so that should mean something 22:34:51 someone suggested excluding permafoo, yes 22:35:25 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:27 <|amethyst> kilobyte: even stone I worry about unless the process is extremely noisy (like the other methods of breaching stone) 22:35:37 it didn't work on permanent walls 22:35:39 <|amethyst> kilobyte: rune vaults etc 22:36:23 i would worry more about free passwall on d:1 than breaking vaults and stuff 22:36:31 i was thinking something where you are really melding *onto* the wall, i.e. just onto one side of it; so you'd only be able to exit back onto the side you entered from, and LOS would only be in the room you were in before 22:36:32 although obviously it would break vaults and stuff too :P 22:36:48 so this would be more of a defensive/tactical posture with a few plusses and minuses 22:36:49 <|amethyst> mumra: tracking the side sounds kind of problematic 22:36:59 kind of like self-petrify but with a smoother interface 22:37:03 hrm, bh's game on one monitor, IRC on the other, where do I read code? 22:37:16 kilobyte: time to buy a 3rd :P 22:37:17 that sounds less likely to be totally broken at least but yeah, maybe a bit weird 22:37:20 * kilobyte hates the concept of non-fullscreen text windows. 22:37:34 * mumra has 3 monitors but my laptop refuses to acknowledge all three :( 22:37:41 <|amethyst> mumra: eg if there's a long wall, could you go all the way to the end then circle around the other side? 22:38:01 i guess the only move you would be able to make at all would be back out of the wall? 22:38:12 yeah it gets a bit weird if you can move along the wall 22:38:33 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 22:38:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: if it's 16:9 it's kind of silly to fullscreen instead of half-fullscreen (unless you're doing 80x24, which doesn't apply to code) 22:39:05 but then it's hard to make the ability hugely useful and also an interesting _choice_ rather than something you want to do for every fight 22:39:08 <|amethyst> (or IRC) 22:39:33 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:37 player wallmasters? 22:39:42 |amethyst: you mean, two 8:9 sceens? 22:39:43 get one to the orb and you're done? 22:39:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: no, two 16:9s 22:39:59 ie, four 8:9? 22:40:02 <|amethyst> yeah 22:40:20 * Grunt cannot see 8 and 9 without thinking of OOD monsters <_< 22:40:23 <|amethyst> well, effectively 22:40:33 this sounds like the first valid use for 16:9 screens I've heard about 22:40:40 <|amethyst> in practice I just use maximise vertical 22:40:56 mumra: Make it slow to unmerge from the wall? So that by entering you're sort of commiting for a time? 22:41:04 yeah that's what i thought 22:41:05 mumra: And maybe give -TELE while there? 22:41:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: alternatively, turn them on their side and you can read a lot before you scroll :) 22:41:10 and also slowed actions while merged 22:41:20 DracoOmega: you.earth_attunement, present in regular Crawl too 22:41:22 I don't think it should slow actions while merged, or why do you want to even do it? 22:41:26 and no ev but really high stealth and bonus AC or whatever 22:41:43 hmm, yeah no slowing 22:41:55 oh actually not any more, bh removed it; it was there so testing nomes is not a pain in the butt 22:42:00 Like, ideally it is appealing in multiple circumstances, but also not automatic in all of them 22:42:20 Which I think -TELE and a delay to unmerge could accomplish 22:42:24 Since it's bad if you may need to leave 22:42:39 But strong enoguh that it might otherwise help you win something you might not otherwise, so there's a debate 22:42:43 ie, less uncool self-petrify? 22:42:51 Potentially, yes 22:43:09 there has to be a reason to not want to use it for *every* non-trivial fight 22:43:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: with my normal font I can fit 190 characters on one terminal. The only time I'd ever use more than 120 or so columns is doing side-by-side diffs or git blame 22:43:22 Well, I just listed some reasons, no? 22:43:29 although if there are wall material restrictions then it's not always going to be available also 22:43:34 Cutting off any quick escape options is a notable limitation 22:43:37 yeah 22:43:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: err, 190 characters horizontally on one monitor 22:43:41 No ?blinking if something goes south, for example 22:43:44 kilobyte: yeah, I killed it off 'cause it looked stale 22:44:01 -!- neuwiz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:44:08 <|amethyst> kilobyte: for playing crawl I use a bigger font and maximise 22:44:20 I do like the idea of it giving really high stealth, if it could also be used to lose pursuers sometimes, like the camostatue idea I mentioned a few times before, but had not yet had time to try and code 22:44:33 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:44:42 it depends whether the flavour is "actually melding partially with the wall" or "a gargoyle sitting on the wall pretending to be a plain ol' stationary gargoyle" 22:45:58 I kind of feel even 16:12 is too wide for Crawl; could use more message lines 22:45:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:58 (i mean, generally what effects it has depends on that, stealth would be a given i'd say) 22:45:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, I'd prefer taller 22:46:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but I don't want to make it narrower because I like big fonts :) 22:46:00 kilobyte: that's called 4:3 22:46:00 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:02 mumra: bas relief? 22:46:05 it sounds good if you can use it for some fights, and also use it as the stealthy escape trick 22:46:19 kilobyte: haha, yes 22:46:23 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:54 SamB: customary yeah, I find it more convenient to use an uniform scale with the other typical ratios 22:47:01 <|amethyst> I hear those giant goldfish are getting tired 22:47:06 <|amethyst> they could use some... 22:47:10 <|amethyst> bass relief 22:47:58 <|amethyst> Grunt is a horrible influence and I should feel bad 22:48:21 Haha 22:50:45 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- gammafunk has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- Nikolaos has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- johlstei has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- raskol has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- Aponym has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- ProzacElf has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- bananaken has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- russw has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- johnny0_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- Sabaki_|2 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:46 -!- HellTiger has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:47 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:47 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:47 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:47 -!- mumblerit has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:48 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:48 -!- Moredread has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:48 -!- ibanix has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:48 -!- riot has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:49 -!- Guz has quit [*.net *.split] 22:50:50 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 22:51:32 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:38 -!- jeffro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:53 -!- Kalir has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:54 -!- ontoclasm has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:54 -!- simmarine has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:55 -!- Villadelfia has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:55 -!- Melum has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:55 -!- broquaint has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:55 -!- pythonsnake has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:55 -!- Erratic_Magenta has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:56 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:56 -!- herself has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:56 -!- Kaput has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:56 -!- wumpus has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:57 -!- Grunt has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:35 -!- Lightli has quit [] 22:52:40 -!- gammafunk is now known as 65MAACED4 22:52:47 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:47 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:47 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:47 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:47 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:48 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:55 FR: axing the message upon walking into trees 22:53:55 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:55 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 22:53:59 -!- caleba has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- gammafunk has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- Nikolaos has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- johlstei has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- Aponym has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- ProzacElf has quit [*.net *.split] 22:53:59 -!- bananaken has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:00 -!- russw has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:00 -!- johnny0_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:00 -!- Sabaki_|2 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:02 -!- HellTiger has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:03 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:05 -!- BizmarkRibeye has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:07 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:08 -!- mumblerit has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:08 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:08 -!- Moredread has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:09 -!- ibanix has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:09 -!- riot has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:10 -!- Guz has quit [*.net *.split] 22:54:12 walls don't have that 22:54:15 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:54:22 -!- Zorki has quit [Changing host] 22:54:44 -!- sprort has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:53 -!- Undo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:07 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:13 can suck with '7' trees, but people who inflict them on themselves are non-default 22:55:33 with '7' looking like a monster 22:55:36 -!- xnavy is now known as 45PAAPYEN 22:55:39 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:39 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:39 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:39 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:40 there's a message when walking into trees? 22:55:49 -!- Perryman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:27 oh, only with Fedhas 22:56:31 but still 22:57:00 I guess the idea was to explain that you can't walk through trees like other plants 22:57:21 yeah, it's spammy though 22:58:28 -!- 45PAAPYEN has quit [Ping timeout: 275 seconds] 22:58:47 <65MAACED4> speaking of fish, we do need more water-bound enemies. It always amuses me when I see giant goldfish guarding the entrance to cocytus 22:59:06 also, this is slightly off topic but it seemed like a good place to ask: Where's a good place to talk about roguelike design in general that anyone here knows of? (I'm involved in a project with some people) 22:59:08 -!- 65MAACED4 has quit [Quit: 65MAACED4] 22:59:36 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 22:59:37 G-Flex: dpeg might know 22:59:49 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:30 gammafunk_: "really giant hellgoldfish"? 23:00:39 haha 23:01:26 oh hrm, djinn don't seem to be affected extra by airstrike 23:01:39 -!- gammafunk_ has left ##crawl-dev 23:01:40 When can we add hellectric eels? 23:01:42 <_< 23:01:46 djinn generally aren't considered airborne afaik 23:01:49 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:06 yeah, being just centimetres over the ground normally -- but doesn't airstrike's extra damage come from not being able to brace against the ground? 23:04:41 in bh's game, green/lightgreen fauns camouflage well against green/lightgreen '7' trees 23:05:40 ♣ at least looks more distinct from letters 23:05:57 -!- Undo has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:09 but still, perhaps forest-dwellers should use a different colour scheme? 23:08:25 kilobyte: ♣ sucks 23:08:55 -!- radiosilence has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:57 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:12:42 don't like the dwarf fortress scheme bh? 23:13:47 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 23:14:11 <|amethyst> when chimera(s|e) are in trunk, can we have Wolpertinger in Forest? 23:14:20 <|amethyst> s/ger/gers/ 23:14:58 |amethyst: for a specific composition of chimera i would just implement a new monster, it's cleaner 23:15:01 crawl get-rich-quick methods: stepped-pyramid schemes 23:15:14 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:15 (unless i did something like special-casing certain combos to adopt appropriate names...) 23:16:00 |amethyst: but it looks cool, it could be like a flying squirrel version of the monty python rabbit 23:17:53 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:02 they should have a random name generator seeded by the incorporated monsters 23:21:14 I'd start an alt named Tim, and play HuWz solely to defeat the monty python rabbit if it got put into the game 23:21:25 batephantagon 23:21:26 i.e. the Plogian Chimera 23:21:54 <|amethyst> Chimera of King 23:21:54 batephantagon chimera 23:22:17 <|amethyst> Giaggostuono 23:22:21 Plog <3 23:23:07 gammafunk: maybe you should start it now just in case 23:23:19 fr put plog back in the tutorial 23:23:20 you know, in case someone ELSE has the same idea 23:23:52 SamB: I'm cursed to speed run HEIE until I get the species HE score; but adding the monty python rabbit could temporarily lift the curse 23:24:20 species healer score 23:24:51 gammafunk: I meant you should reserver the account 23:25:04 !lg Tim 23:25:04 No games for Tim. 23:25:06 radiosilence: Is HE only valid as a class in your mind? :) 23:25:24 I also want the IE class score, to be fair 23:25:55 would rather not complain about high elves 23:26:43 <|amethyst> Was going to have a +3 magic aptitude, but then I got high 23:26:44 Some people have strong opinions that HE is boring, I've learned. I still like them 23:26:52 <|amethyst> s/magic/spellcasting/ 23:30:41 radiosilence: if i can actually come up with an algorithm to generate names like batephantagon that would be awesome 23:31:09 I'm pretty sad SE got removed, since they were choice species to use in going for a top 5 15-rune score once I got the HE score 23:31:41 syllables work 23:31:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk: does 0.12 not count? :) 23:32:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:32:02 |amethyst: BUT NAUSEA!!! 23:32:11 it's not THAT bad afaict 23:32:33 just, like, try to ignore it except don't eat tainted chunks in battle 23:32:57 SamB: It's a big deal in mage speed runs, but you're right, it's no show-stopper 23:33:14 -!- Rebthor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:33:23 KMONS: 6 = iron dragon / iron troll / iron troll 23:33:33 * radiosilence coughs 23:33:48 Does it offend your sensibilities that it isn't 'iron troll w:20' or something? 23:33:56 DracoOmega: that's what I was wondering 23:34:18 well also I can tell what it was 23:34:40 Was one of the options an iron devil or something? 23:34:54 |amethyst: btw, opinion seems fairly 50/50 on chimera/chimaera, and i have no strong preference either way, so it's not exactly set in stone 23:34:55 At some point? 23:35:03 think higher and still bad 23:35:09 mumra: Looked more like 80/20 to me! 23:35:12 Iron golem? 23:35:24 yes, eurgh 23:35:50 Heh 23:35:59 Clearly should have been a stasis golem 23:36:02 Once they exist >.> 23:36:34 mmmm. stasis golems. 23:36:38 made of stasis? 23:37:04 Sure, why not 23:37:13 Sweet. 23:37:17 prefer stasis fiend myself 23:37:45 <|amethyst> mumra: "chimera" appears to be more common in AusE so I guess it's fine :) 23:38:52 well, that probably settles it ;) 23:40:24 <|amethyst> hm 23:40:41 <|amethyst> transifex's SSL cert seems to have expired 23:40:52 <|amethyst> Expires On: 4/21/13 23:41:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:42:20 <|amethyst> For a program that uses English (Australia) as its main language, we seem to have a dearth of Australians on the devteam 23:43:46 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13-a0-1672-g2e244fd (34) 23:44:48 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:19 !vault hanging_gardens 23:46:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:25 Lines pasted to http://pastie.org/8057981 23:48:47 DracoOmega: -TELE looks really odd as a status indicator; nothing else is in all caps like that. 23:48:57 s/indicator/light/ 23:49:06 Well, that's how it shows up on inscriptions, no? 23:49:12 Though you may have a point 23:49:20 -CAST 23:49:41 Well, both are in all caps, aren't they? 23:49:42 ...hmm, are those two it 23:49:50 Well, MR technically is 23:50:02 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:50:04 MR is an acronym :b 23:50:08 pff, not a blocker 23:50:41 clearly need, like, -QUAFF 23:50:54 <|amethyst> TREE 23:50:54 -Quaff -Eat 23:51:42 {rN+++ rPois rC+ rHoly-- -QUAFF -EAT} 23:51:49 Well, if you think -TELE looks too odd there, feel free to change it. But that is the reason I put it in caps, since it is essentially the same as that other property that people may have seen and be familair with 23:52:21 <|amethyst> they make sense in inscriptions 23:52:23 There generally isn't a lot of connection between status lights and inscriptions. 23:52:25 <|amethyst> the all caps I mean 23:52:31 MR and Regen are the only two I can immediately think of. 23:52:38 (other than the case at hand) 23:52:51 MR less so with the + tweaks, but still. 23:52:53 <|amethyst> but status lights can use colour to indicate the severity of the restriction so it's not so necessary there 23:52:54 RMsl mirrors! 23:56:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:45 e - the cursed +15 Maxwell's patent armour {rCorr, Cons, -Cast -Tele MR+} 23:56:52 It's not -CAST -TELE any more. 23:57:00 (Why did I not notice this before now?) 23:57:01 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:23 Wait, it isn't anymore? 23:57:24 %git 84598a1b6 23:57:24 07MarvinPA * 0.11-a0-337-g84598a1: Change MUT to Contam in artefact inscriptions, use consistent capitalisation 10(1 year, 3 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84598a1b664b 23:57:36 That's a pretty old change :b 23:57:39 Old memories die hard, it seems 23:58:29 MR is all caps but only because there aren't any other letters 23:59:00 MaRes 23:59:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:59:11 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 23:59:25 marker reaver 23:59:44 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1673-gf59dc81: -TELE -> -Tele in status lights. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f59dc81748fa