00:00:00 then they could have some small, simple, thematic ability that gives them contam 00:00:00 There was a suggestion somewhere to make it a mode toggle; if you want something with increased regen, a mode toggle would be good. 00:00:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:00:16 so if you abuse it you end up petrified 00:00:30 (could be regen + minor AC boost) 00:00:41 (or rPois or something stony) 00:00:42 suppose we just pretend that we're replacing SE. do they really need this shtick? 00:01:07 if you don't use it for gargoyle i'm using it for my stone god proposal 00:01:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1456-ga275122 (34) 00:01:26 but i'd answer your question with no, but it could be interesting with the right idea 00:02:54 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:29 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:27 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:12:41 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 00:16:41 -!- Stelpa__ has quit [Quit: Butts] 00:16:57 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 00:26:59 -!- scwizard has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:01 -!- mason- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:27:05 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:30:33 -!- rchandra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:49 -!- rchandra1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:30 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:35:25 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 00:39:11 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:43:53 -!- Guest41718 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:30 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:27 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:58 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:56:14 -!- mumblerit has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:23 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 00:57:12 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:57:25 -!- mumblerit is now known as Guest97540 00:57:56 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:15 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:59:50 -!- Guest97540 is now known as mumblerit 01:00:05 -!- Rebenga has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:07:21 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 01:11:11 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:30 So, that didn't actually seem terribly hard 01:12:28 I do think there are probably too many jiangshi, though. And Crypt ambient noise could stand adjusting. 01:12:43 There were a couple times where it felt like I fought most of a floor at the entry stairs 01:13:44 Crypt could actually be the silent, reduced-LOS branch. 01:14:36 I don't think it needs an even more drastic overhaul of an entirely different sort, after it just got one, y'know :P 01:15:47 Well it would certainly be something more than "undead dungeon" if it was different. :I 01:16:11 Though I really have to place to judge it. 01:16:20 And what is wrong with 'undead branch' in a theoreical sense 01:16:23 ? 01:16:27 Since I just blazed through it with a character far too strong. 01:16:28 Have you even seen newcrypt? 01:16:48 Only a slight bit of it until I went into Tomb. 01:17:02 Because there's no point clearing it when you have 14 runes already. 01:17:44 Yes, it's not exactly meant to be a challenge to people that have cleared extended 01:19:55 -!- sym` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:14 Some people in ##crawl have complained that it is woefully difficult now, but I am not sure that is really the case 01:21:11 Admittedly, I did haste a bunch of times and had to withdraw a couple, but that character also had neither a holy weapon nor dispel undead nor super AC nor rN, and still didn't have to use any consumables or drop into dangerous hp at any point 01:21:30 And entered at xl 21, which isn't absurdly high, either 01:28:48 i have not had much difficulty with newcrypt either, i think it's overall more interesting 01:28:52 ^still 01:29:25 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:29:34 I mean, it's definitely harder than before, and that is intended 01:29:45 Since it was widely considered unthreatening 01:30:13 Now it can definitely kill you if you don't treat various things with the proper respect. But it didn't feel nearly so bad as I've heard some people imply 01:30:54 Though I think maybe thinning the numbers of a couple things a little (more for time than difficulty) and adjusting ambient noise will make it feel a little better 01:32:28 I've had people both claim that jiangshi are way too strong, and that they aren't strong ENOUGH, so... :P 01:33:04 I haven't personally seem them be highly dangerous to anyone though, in the Crypt runs I've watched (which is a few, by this point) 01:33:49 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:57 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:32 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 01:40:49 XL21 is a little higher than a lot of characters have previously wanted to go into crypt I think 01:41:04 which is possibly part of this 01:41:30 XL21 doesn't seem that high for there to me 01:41:37 Maybe different playing habits, though 01:41:56 Certainly if this character did it at xl21 without using consumables or being in danger, it could do it a few levels lower, though 01:43:59 Though possibly you might care to bother, at that point 01:44:02 mightn't* 01:45:06 !lm * br.enter=crypt x=avg(xl) 01:45:07 21489 milestones for * (br.enter=crypt): avg(xl)=21.04 01:45:15 Actually, that seems pretty spot on :P 01:49:57 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:50:42 DracoOmega: Exactly why I'm saying I'm in no state to judge it. 01:51:04 Because I had some 47/21/29 and sword of jihad to deal with things. 01:52:08 Yeah, that's just a TAD better than my +1,+4 demon trident of piercing >.> 01:52:18 I do think part of it is that by the time characters feel ready to go into crypt it's not worth the bother 01:52:44 so it's a little displaced from the role it had before 01:52:48 Yes, I can agree to that sentiment, which is one of the reasons I am interested in the proposal to make it into a rune branch 01:54:17 And possibly not too many people will miss hunting for the demonic rune, anyway >.> 01:54:41 I figure you probably then need the branch ends to be consistently as hard as Vaults:5 or Slime:6 01:54:41 yes i would like that very much 01:54:55 Yes, the branch ends would need work for that 01:55:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:04 But I think the rest of the branch population can handle that role just fine 01:55:31 It's okay to keep skipping panfloors to get to the important bits. 01:55:43 But having to clear every single one to find a rune gets boring very quickly. 01:56:02 probably having no reason to ever check random panlord vaults is weird 01:56:07 Well, I think the plan might be to make Pan finite at the same time, with possibly a few other changes 01:56:16 because I'm quite sure the loot isn't worth dealing with a panlord band 01:56:30 Well, one proposal had the portal to the next level frequently be INSIDE the Pan lord vaults 01:56:30 mm. 01:56:33 the solution is to increase important loot 01:56:38 like cmut potions and stuff 01:56:44 Like, make the levels a lot smaller 01:56:51 being forced to always deal with the panlord bands sound bad also but I guess it would be limited 01:56:51 And fewer of them, that you can get through quicker 01:56:53 perhaps because there are neqoxecs everywhere 01:57:18 Currently the floors are big and wide. 01:57:24 And also desolate a lot of the time. 01:57:32 Possibly having the portals ONLY be inside might be a little too restrictive, I don't know 01:57:40 With perhaps a panlord band vault somewhere where there's trouble. 01:58:01 The good part about pan is that you can just skip things if you want to. 01:58:18 pan is all about skipping things 01:58:19 Well, it may not be entirely good that there's no incentive to stay on any floors with tricky monsters 01:58:20 Taking that away would be kind of erghhh. 01:58:39 and in being all about skipping things it's sort of a unique branch 01:58:48 Well, Hell is about skipping things 01:58:51 What if I have no incentive for anything but getting out of it. 01:58:53 If not quite the same way 01:59:07 Hell is about rushing things. 01:59:17 (Not taking a casual stroll through Gehenna like I did.) 01:59:33 I mean it's more directly about being forced to move quickly 01:59:55 Hmmm... maybe you could have the portals in the Pan lord vaults automatically lead directly to the next 'major' floor 01:59:58 it's a little hard to skip things in hell the same way, you do have to deal with a lot of things, especially at the end 02:00:00 So that it could be quicker 02:00:28 I mean, it does seem bad if there's no good reason to EVER tackle the pan lords, if there's no demonic rune 02:00:28 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:41 And the loot there is just not good enough to appeal in that capacity 02:01:02 yes since it is really nonexistent in many cases 02:01:15 and also the random bands can be worse than what the unique lords are bringing to the party 02:02:11 Like, on the one idea, I do kind of like the idea that having portals only there could make it into a sort of mini-gauntlet 02:02:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:27 On the other hand, it could be a fair bit scarier to not just be able to leave a level with random 1s on it 02:03:06 there's always at least the possibility of being accosted by 1s before you've found the next exit 02:03:13 I find it funny how the lord I had the least trouble with was Gloorx. 02:03:14 Yes 02:03:30 Like, maybe this alternate setup wouldn't be so bad in practice, really. It would need to be experimented with, I think 02:03:32 Because Gloorx is someone you usually don't want to meet. 02:03:43 Definitely. 02:03:44 maybe consider those the car crashes on Pan's interdimensional highway 02:03:48 Since probably a lot of characters that are doing Pan can handle more trouble in Pan than they actually run into, without a real problem 02:04:02 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:05 The problem is just that extended is boring as sin. 02:04:14 The main scary times, I find, are just when you ARRIVE in the Pan lord vault 02:04:19 I don't really consider hell to be boring 02:04:30 Since some of them have terrible lines of sight for escape and can handle multiple fiends, hellions, etc. 02:04:31 And so I myself probably won't really have much of an incentive to get through extended. 02:04:34 Hell isn't very boring. 02:04:47 Wandering the empty pandemonium through countless smoke demons and neqoxecs is. 02:04:52 So possibly if you forbade landing in those vaults at the same time as this change, it wouldn't actually be overall harder 02:05:06 Said two are completely harmless by that point in the game. 02:05:14 Serving only to mutate you and burn your scrolls. 02:05:19 I bet smoke demons kill steal a fair bit in extended :P 02:05:22 "oh my so fun" 02:05:32 even if it is boring (and if it is it's also going by fast unless you care about the bonus rune) it's handy for there to be an easier extended zone 02:05:33 Well orc priests do too in large numbers. 02:05:58 SwissStopwatch: Well, I think this would still be easier than Hell and Tomb, certainly. It might not even be a whole lot more hard than presently. 02:06:02 Just shorter 02:06:12 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 02:06:50 Remember, even if you can't just escape off the level easily, you can still rest up pretty fine in a lot of cases and there aren't environmental hazards, and the average monster difficulty is frequently not that terrible 02:07:00 Punctuated by a few significant nasties, of course 02:07:32 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:56 It would be more fun if there was actual loot to claim. 02:08:03 If you were willing to kill nasties. 02:08:12 Instead it's just nasties once in a while and why do I have to do this. 02:08:29 Well, you could always not do it and just win with 3 runes or something :P 02:08:49 Making it not take forever to find the levels you want would help a bunch anyway, I think 02:09:05 The only casualty that would genuinely sadden me would be zigscumming, though 02:09:08 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:18 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:27 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:30 But the idea of being able to enter a new one after winning a previous one still exists 02:12:36 Forest in the Crypt rotation sort of complicates this a little though, since I think Crypt is a lot closer to rune-worthy at this point than Forest is (no offense intended to certain parties!) 02:13:04 I mean, it can absolutely be made that way eventually, of course 02:14:00 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:14 my crazy vision was that tomb would come directly off of vaults, and [crypt|tomb] would get a rune stolen from pan 02:14:25 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:29 crypt|forest i mean 02:15:12 Yes, this is what I have been talking about :P 02:15:16 Well, aside from the Tomb moving bit 02:15:53 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:11 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:33 -!- st_ has quit [] 02:37:32 -!- jetnerd has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:40:39 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:44:55 Forest replacing Crypt seems like a temporary measure. 02:45:09 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:45:10 And well. 02:45:21 Well, you could always not do it and just win with 3 runes or something :P 02:45:57 This might be my limited amount of sources, but this SEEMS to be like something that floats around. 02:46:17 And ignoring the problem doesn't really fix it. :s 02:46:36 Well, my point is that if you don't enjoy extended, you are in no way obligated to do it 02:46:43 I am not saying that parts of extended could not be improved, certainly 02:47:09 But I expect that it may always 'drag' in comparison to the normal game for some people, no matter what is done with it 02:47:28 Just by virtue of its extension past a normal endgame 02:47:56 And possibly it is not so bad that there are some people who like extened and do it regularly, and there are other people who do not, and rarely do it, yet still enjoy Crawl just fine 02:49:45 I just did it myself for the first time. 02:49:56 First time? 02:50:04 First time, yes. 02:50:10 !lg Bloaxzorro won 02:50:10 1. Bloaxzorro the Invulnerable (L27 DjMo), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-06-05 18:58:47, with 10994665 points after 152711 turns and 15:41:09. 02:50:31 It was fun to blaze through Gehenna. 02:50:35 And hell is generally ok-ish. 02:50:53 Yes, I imagine hellfire immunity is rather good in Geh 02:51:02 But the Pandemonium is really just the Abyss in disguise. 02:51:15 Pan and Abyss are considerably different from each other in my opinion 02:51:21 I imagine every djinn trait is pretty good in extended outside of Coc 02:51:25 Even if both are 'infinite' they are infinite in very different ways 02:51:31 They are different no doubt. 02:51:39 But it felt just as boring and pointless. 02:51:43 well Abyss also doubles as a jail for the hapless 02:51:51 Even if you took that bit out :P 02:51:52 which really doesn't help make it interesting for "extended" 02:52:13 i would like pan a lot more if "annoying" 3s and ice imps were only inside pan lord vaults 02:52:40 By annoying 3s, do you mean malmutate and sticky flame? :P 02:52:43 yes 02:52:51 i wouldn't mind smoke demons as much if they just smited 02:52:57 Well, I think a smaller shorter Pan would help on a lot of fronts 02:52:58 that would make them more dangerous and less annoying 02:53:23 Certainly I think there is no one who ENJOYS diving through 40 floors for the rune 02:53:30 Well if you want a look at what I had at my disposal; 02:53:35 !lg Bloaxzorro won -log 02:53:35 1. Bloaxzorro, XL27 DjMo, T:152711: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Bloaxzorro/morgue-Bloaxzorro-20130605-185847.txt 02:53:48 I ended up just straight up running from every single thing in Pan. 02:53:57 XL27 = "enough at your disposal" 02:54:02 Just because I couldn't be bothered to kill all those exciting smoke demons and neqoxecs. 02:55:06 Well, Pan and Hell and Abyss ALL involve a lot of 'can't be bothered to kill this', really 02:55:15 Yes. 02:55:19 For differing reasons 02:55:26 But Pan is very desolate as I said, and there's not much loot anywhere. 02:55:38 More loot than most of Hell by a long shot! 02:55:46 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:55 perhaps because hell doesn't really have loot 02:56:06 and why are you looking for loot in hell with its hell effects 02:56:15 go kill the lord already and begone 02:58:17 The most threatening things is usually the panlord band with a couple of 1's 02:58:33 And even then that doesn't always happen. 02:59:48 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:42 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:31 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:05:29 there was a suggestion to make Pan layouts generally quite small 03:05:29 mumra: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:05:35 !messages 03:05:36 (1/4) SamB said (3h 16m 50s ago): *I* didn't want to make shops so wide; they made me do it -> 03:05:38 !messages 03:05:39 !messages 03:05:40 (1/3) SamB said (3h 16m 17s ago): *points at others at random, possibly kilobyte* 03:05:40 (1/2) SamB said (3h 15m 27s ago): I just wanted to make them use 80 but then someone told me that kilobyte had a phone that did 79x24 and to just adapt to the width ... 03:05:43 !messages 03:05:44 (1/1) SamB said (3h 14m 55s ago): you're more then welcome to change it 03:05:59 -!- Sabaki has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:06 mumra: Yes (which could also be combined with there being fewer levels in general) 03:07:21 it used to be even worse of course :) 03:07:27 Yes, I know 03:19:12 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:10 -!- letmeon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:20:57 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:06 The new evokables are kind of amazing 03:25:43 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:08 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 03:29:16 yes 03:29:44 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:00 i'm just improving box of beasts more 03:31:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:35 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:05 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:45:13 -!- Kriby has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:45:13 -!- krag has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:31 -!- timpakya has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:48:35 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:01 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04:46 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 04:08:24 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:52 -!- Sky_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:16:32 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:16:49 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:17:51 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:19:02 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 04:25:57 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:28:28 -!- Ystah has quit [Quit: CyberScript - com o mIRC mais atual e em portugus (www.cyberscript.org)] 04:30:17 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 04:33:54 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 04:38:50 hmm 04:39:00 this is a slightly great bug, if i'm reading this right 04:39:36 since Djinni got added, all player species now resist water drowning 04:39:50 %git 42993c7a02bf24d02280df06c7140851e8cabb1a 04:41:11 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1128-g42993c7: Merge branch 'master' into djinn 10(9 days ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=42993c7a02bf 04:41:11 s/Djinni/Djinn/ 04:41:11 ....ha 04:41:11 plural was correct there i thought? ;) 04:41:11 Which I guess just means 'suffers less damage from aquamancers' 04:41:11 djinn is plural 04:41:11 ohh 04:41:11 Oh, I guess it affects engulf, too 04:41:11 ??faq[2 04:41:11 faq[2/6]: Q: Why do orbs of fire have rDrown? A: if you happen to enslave a merfolk aquamancer on zot:5, I think the orb of fire's rDrown will reduce the wave spell damage 04:41:11 Meaning no one is silenceable by it, maybe? 04:41:11 if (is_unbreathing() 04:41:11 || you.species == SP_MERFOLK && !form_changed_physiology() 04:41:11 || you.species == SP_OCTOPODE && !form_changed_physiology() 04:41:11 || you.form == TRAN_ICE_BEAST); 04:41:11 spot the semicolon 04:41:12 Hehe 04:41:14 I did that once 04:41:32 Well, not in live code. But I spent like an hour trying to figure out why the logical expression was not doing what it was supposed to 04:41:43 (It was a harder to parse expression, so the problem living there would make sense) 04:42:18 i really need to go through all these MSVC compiler warnings at some point; a lot of them are genuine issues like this 04:42:45 Good catch 04:45:28 nowhere close to 04:45:32 ??epic bugs[9 04:45:32 epic bugs[9/9]: DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-338-gd5b758e: Fix all monster attack flavours inflicting 0 damage 04:45:48 but still a good catch :) 04:45:59 That one will live in infamy for a while, I expect 04:49:25 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:23 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:58 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:42 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:29 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:29 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:26:29 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:26:29 A grotesque parody of nature, this fantastical creature consists of three individual beasts combined into one. 05:26:29 It has the body of a hell beast, the head of a death yak, and the head of a pearl dragon. 05:26:29 needs some work still :P 05:26:29 hahaha 05:26:29 doesn't need legs or anything right 05:26:29 just hover 05:26:29 the first creature is the body and the legs and everything 05:26:29 right now the second 2 creatures just give it extra attack types 05:26:29 but i want to do a bit more, like if one of the other creatures is flying then it should get the wings 05:26:29 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:27:42 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:42 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:27:44 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 05:29:17 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:42 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1460-g9aba37b: Prevent all player species having water drowning resistance 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9aba37ba333d 05:31:42 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1461-g2103475: Implement Chimeric monsters 10(13 minutes ago, 13 files, 791+ 615-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2103475708c1 05:31:42 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1462-g6c3863f: Box of Beasts produces chimera instead of individual beasts 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6c3863f44c0f 05:31:43 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1457-gd67ac90: Prevent all player species having water drowning resistance 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d67ac905b538 05:31:43 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1458-gad1601e: Correct an inaccurate comment 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad1601e5749e 05:34:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:32 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:06 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:48 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:55 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:56:42 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 06:02:24 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:03:42 are player gargoyles going to stay named gargoyles? 06:04:48 their resists and features don't match up with enemy gargoyles 06:08:07 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:53 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:24 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:12:41 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:15:16 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:10 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:23:23 Mu_: i think nobody knows what's going to happen with gargoyles :) 06:23:33 alright 06:23:44 they will probably change a bit more 06:24:06 but definitely if they keep the name then monster gargoyles should be adjusted to match them 06:24:16 i remember it being a big deal that player species have to match up with their monster version for resists and things is all 06:24:38 i like gargoyles anyway they seem cool 06:24:45 <|amethyst> that's why they were originally called "grotesks" 06:24:57 i see 06:24:58 <|amethyst> not sure why that changed, other than complaints 06:25:20 i liked an idea i think someone mentioned of making them metal instead of stone 06:26:22 since right now there's this weird overlap with LO and also stoneskin / statueform / etc. 06:26:30 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:59 but then all these new species are in a slightly strange design space 06:32:47 metal gargoyle (109) | Spd: 7 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Dam: 19, 10, 10 | 11non-living, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(64), 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 205 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 06:32:47 %??metal gargoyle 06:32:54 i dont think that would make that better... 06:33:31 hm, actually maybe it would, for some reason metal gargoyles dont seem to have elemental resistances 06:33:35 gargoyle (159) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-31 | AC/EV: 18/6 | Dam: 10, 6, 6 | 11non-living, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(32), 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 142 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 06:33:35 %??gargoyle 06:33:49 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:33:49 neither do normal ones, but player ones get some, right? 06:39:23 i don't think they do 06:41:12 anyway it certainly doesn't make sense to call both these things gargoyles when they're completely different 06:41:37 in pretty much all respects 06:42:35 -!- syncopath has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:31 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:41 -!- AriaB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:51 -!- AriaB has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:54 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46:56 player gargoyles get rc+ and rn+ which i think is kind of odd 06:47:01 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:50 mumra: monster gargoyles also suck terribly in every single way, any excuse to improve or remove them is good imo 06:47:52 monster gargoyles get all the nonliving resists and can fly 06:48:42 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:49:15 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:31 a nonliving player species might be kind of cool, but gargoyles don't seem to be that at the moment 06:50:51 alefury: yeah there is that, although i'm not sure if basing them on current player gargoyles would make them any better either 06:51:18 if the petrify regen is sufficiently amped up they might be cool 06:51:26 kill them quickly, or watch them regenerate 06:51:42 Mu_: golems are probably the best bet for that, and there have been at least 3 implementations so far that just never got quite finished 06:52:19 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:38 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:29 regen is kind of bad as an active ability as grunt said, since you'll want to use it every time you're resting 06:56:10 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:04 mumra_: also people didnt like them, iirc 06:58:01 ("people" included most of the devs that took a closer look at them i think) 06:58:10 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:13 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:51 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:00 -!- SpEntmymoney has quit [Client Quit] 07:11:25 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:53 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:13:53 alefury: from comments on the thread - https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1519&hilit=golem&start=100 - dpeg, galehar and MarvinPA commented and none of them disliked the core idea 07:14:10 the only one with specific problems was MarvinPA who suggested some alternate mechanics 07:14:28 oh. that thread. that terrible thread. 07:14:45 its too long 07:14:48 so i think it's more a lack of anyone implementing and refining the idea rather than anyone actually fundamentally disliking it 07:15:01 there are 3 or 4 golem implementations 07:15:27 there's a mantis ticket with the more recent implementations https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4400 07:15:31 but zero comments 07:15:52 i think it's a bit unwieldy for anyone to take a close look at like 5 different implementations 07:16:09 theres more on the wiki i think 07:16:17 yeah 07:18:07 i think it's more a case that devs don't want to touch it with a bargepole until someone has come along and sensibly combined all the proposals and ideas into a single set of workable mechanics 07:20:34 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:07 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:22:43 i'm certainly not inspired to go and test out four different versions of the species when they all seem rather complex and different mechanics-wise, and when the designers/patchers haven't responded to or followed up on comments and advice that are there 07:23:22 i'm more interested in fixing monster golems first anyway :) 07:23:27 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:28 -!- mumra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:45 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:03 oh, here's the fifth proposal: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4485&p=58700&hilit=golem#p58700 07:28:17 there are probably at least 20 more proposals hidden away elsewhere 07:28:47 i'm sure there was a really really silly one where you find blueprints to modify yourself with 07:29:07 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:55 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:42:19 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:43:18 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:28 mumra: or easier to swallow theme-wise, a new paper to add to your chem 07:43:47 (the writing inside the golem's head) 07:44:01 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Client Quit] 07:44:04 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:45:03 <|amethyst> It was a scroll of vulnerability. You die. 07:45:55 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:34 that sort of thing'd certainly make sense but probably better to use existing items than add a new class-specific item 07:54:54 my idea for monster golems is sort of themed along these lines - each golem is generated with an "upgrade" picked randomly from a list of eligible upgrades 07:55:08 which could be perma-enchantments or special abilities 07:56:50 I don't see what's so bad with race specific items. We do have two distinct types of bardings. 07:57:00 and heck, because of lesser races we have food 07:57:16 hehe :) 07:57:23 i guess so 07:57:51 you might want the golem upgrades to showcome up a bit more often than bardings perhaps 07:57:57 if upgrades had about the same rarity as decks, it wouldn't annoy other races much 07:58:00 yeah 08:00:16 <|amethyst> upgrade with the rare scrolls 08:00:45 -!- syncopath has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:00:53 mumra: the one with blueprints was called automaton 08:01:29 no, it was called Construct 08:01:34 and i dont think littering the dungeon with more crap would be good 08:01:35 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:01:44 oh, maybe. but the word automaton was also used 08:01:50 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6968&p=95576 08:02:15 (a search reveals: it was not) 08:02:37 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:20 im pretty sure the long golem thread had something about putting scrolls into your head 08:03:38 alefury: i don't actually think an occasional golem-specific item would really count as littering the dungeon 08:03:39 since there are already so many items that any given character can't use 08:03:54 but why? 08:05:32 id prefer just using something existing, or granting upgrades (or upgrade ideas, or something) randomly on levelup 08:05:32 anyway, i notice im still worn out on golem talk 08:10:07 -!- Zermako has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:07 -!- timpakay has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- krag has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- Eldarby has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- Surr_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- marcmagus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:10:08 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:12:20 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:12:21 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 08:12:30 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:12:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:58 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:06 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 08:13:31 add to it, perhaps 08:14:10 one thing that might be interesting is using scrolls to fuel spellcasting. they could have a lot of mana, but can only replenish it by putting scrolls in their head :) 08:14:18 -!- diagram has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 08:15:21 as an item slot it's no different to high-powered golem jewellery, but if they're permanent upgrades there isn't really any decision involved 08:15:31 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:04 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:46 mumra: depends, if they are optional and have downsides they could be interesting 08:16:46 wow, most recent golem proposal was only just at the end of March: 08:16:47 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=950&p=100443&hilit=automaton#p100443 08:17:13 -!- yuastnav has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:18:10 -!- k is now known as Guest48453 08:18:10 -!- Guest48453 is now known as diagram 08:18:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:10 MarvinPA: whats your opinion on golems? 08:18:10 uh 08:18:10 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:18:10 the monster? 08:18:10 the species... 08:18:19 wha 08:18:25 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:18:39 you mean the old proposal? or do you mean gargoyles? 08:18:48 the multitude of old proposals 08:18:50 -!- Xiberia has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:51 -!- frostsnow has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 08:18:59 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 08:19:01 there are only about 8 billion of them 08:19:02 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:03 right 08:19:18 i remember being sort of interested in one of the proposals 08:19:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:19:37 but i don't recall the details of it 08:20:04 i think they were all pretty overcomplicated though, trying to do too much at once 08:20:25 -!- lvh is now known as Guest39667 08:20:51 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 08:20:58 mainly i think i liked the idea of another slow species but with some kind of additional gimmick, because slow species are cool 08:21:04 -!- frostsno1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:29 i think it's an idea that players would like and devs don't hate and each proposal had *something* interesting going for it 08:21:45 but it was a victim of bikeshedding itself to death 08:21:48 -!- leStahL has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:22:34 there are some patches on mantis somewhere and i had them in a branch for a while but i didn't ever get inspired to do anything with them 08:23:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 254 seconds] 08:24:21 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:52 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:30 i agree that slow species are cool. they need something pretty powerful, especially early game, to make up for not being able to run away from most things and choose the place they fight at like everyone else. 08:26:58 nagas have their huge stealth and poison spit to mitigate that 08:27:33 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:27:34 stealth would probably not fit golems very well... 08:30:10 -!- alex_ is now known as leStahL 08:31:46 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 08:32:07 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:37 -!- leStahL has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:35:40 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:57 silly idea: exp only contributes to skills, no levelling up from XP. consume (x) number of scrolls to level up instead, stat increases / levelling bonuses are entirely dependant on which scrolls you used 08:38:06 so you can level up pretty fast if you absorb every scroll you find but the bonuses won't be as good as if you pick and choose a bit 08:39:05 hmmmm 08:39:41 that actually sounds kind of cool 08:40:57 -!- Perryman|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:57 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:40:57 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:40:58 also, if you need more scrolls for later levels, but the bonuses dont get bigger, that automatically somewhat compensates that leveling up quickly is better early on 08:41:11 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:41:28 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:41:30 alefury: lava orcs are slow now :) 08:41:33 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:35 early on you get more bang out of each single scroll, but you also get more bang out of just using anything for leveling 08:41:49 Eronarn: wait what? i thought they are only slow when exploring 08:42:08 alefury: if they are warming up too fast, that can be changed 08:42:17 -!- ackackprime has quit [Client Quit] 08:42:24 they should definitely be slow for at least the start of many fights 08:42:43 the bigger problem is that temperature is not really capped, or something 08:42:51 i havent played them yet, thats just what i read :/ 08:43:10 allegedly you can just walk away until you get heat aura and then kill all the dudes with it 08:43:51 <|amethyst> it would be more interesting I think if there were steady states other than fully cold and fully hot 08:44:22 <|amethyst> as in, a certain level of tension/number of monsters was only enough to get you halfway 08:44:28 Eronarn: lava orcs are slow only when exploring 08:44:52 a single lightgrey monster is enough to heat you up to max 08:45:23 walking away until you heat up is a problem 08:45:42 as that's the smart thing to do against any non-ranged opponent 08:45:43 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you can keep walking away then even 08:45:49 <|amethyst> and let the heat aura kill them slowly 08:46:26 |amethyst: it's applied only at the start of the turn, so if you're running away from an adjacent monster it doesn't suffer 08:46:38 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:47:39 <|amethyst> hm... I guess I was running through a crowd 08:48:03 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:43 kilobyte: the lorc rewrite i'm working on does help with this by making temp use exponential decay 08:50:11 could you also fix the extreme spam on passive heat? 08:50:25 is it more spammy than passive freeze, or is that spammy too? 08:50:40 <|amethyst> I really would like to do something to make Beogh possible, too, but nobody can agree on what 08:51:23 1. stand near a hydra, 2. have it attack, 3. press more, 4. press more, 5. press more, 6. keep pressing more, more, more, 7. after 5687534892 more pages, press esc, 8. lose some message you'd want to read 08:51:41 four lines per attack 08:51:54 solution: don't stand near hydras 08:52:23 earlier, lorcs had lava blood too - could drop passive heat in favor of that 08:52:43 having passive heat and also a heat aura is a bit much 08:52:48 it wouldn't be that bad if the messages got collated somehow 08:52:59 hm... that could be hard 08:53:18 unless you pre-store the actor names, since the actors might die 08:53:54 -!- Judedude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:53:55 <|amethyst> could store those in the fineff 08:54:24 <|amethyst> otoh, if the actor dies before the heat aura affects them, there's no need to give a message about burning them 08:55:31 a hydra might die to passive heat from its first three attacks though 08:55:33 kilobyte: anyways if you want to help get temperature.cc properly added to the project, i think the changes there will help 08:55:40 it makes sense and seems easiest to give orcs divine protection from the heat, plus lava-walking 08:56:35 Eronarn: you only need to add it to Makefile.obj 08:56:38 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:55 -!- absolutello is now known as absolutego_ 08:56:55 assuming you fixed the compilation issues otherwise 08:58:14 <|amethyst> mumra: could turn them into lava orcs :) 08:58:34 if Beogh has the power to protect orc from fire on a whim, why wouldn't he use that when it matters? 08:58:47 I'd really hate to have an inconsistency as big 08:59:20 mumra: i was getting compilation issues i hadn't seen before when i did that 08:59:32 probably the same reason fedhas doesn't make your oklobs invincible 08:59:36 maybe lava orcs have a *different* beogh 09:00:07 there should totally be some beogh altars surrounded by lava 09:00:09 Eronarn: you mean when you added it to Makefile.obj? 09:00:12 mumra: yeah 09:00:34 well before the compilation issue would be "i don't know about this file" 09:00:41 now you're getting "i can't compile this file" 09:00:56 so you need to fix the problems i told you about when i looked at it 09:00:57 lemme paste what it throws out 09:04:47 when i was starting to do more oop C++, i found it easier to make small changes in between recompiles, so i could see what had broken things 09:05:03 since the compile errors can be a bit hard to fathom 09:05:24 and don't always directly point you at the source of error as well as you might expect from other languages :) 09:07:34 if i wrote a huge load of code then tried to compile, probably something wouldn't work, then i'd have to start commenting out vast amounts of stuff to figure out where the problem was 09:09:18 https://gist.github.com/Eronarn/9b457c6d4e57a4ca9923 09:10:14 Eronarn: based on those errors my first guess is that you forgot the semicolon at the end of a class definition 09:10:26 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:39 since there's a whole bunch of stuff there that it thinks doesn't exist that clearly should exist 09:11:04 so you need a semicolon after the final closing bracket of each class, not just after each method header 09:12:15 <|amethyst> hm 09:12:36 <|amethyst> make sure temperature.cc does #include "AppHder.h" first 09:12:52 |amethyst: s/Hder/Hdr/ methinks 09:12:59 <|amethyst> err 09:13:00 <|amethyst> yeah 09:13:57 <|amethyst> and some of our headers might not #include everything they need 09:14:40 <|amethyst> s/and // 09:15:17 <|amethyst> because they assume AppHdr.h has already been included 09:15:58 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:19 -!- Judedude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:20:45 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:37 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 09:21:59 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:12 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1463-gf62997b: Updated description for Box of Beasts 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f62997be7c36 09:29:56 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:17 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:48:52 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:33 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:17 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:56:39 |amethyst: that helped! now at least all the errors are in temperature.cc 09:57:38 :p 10:02:54 -!- Guest39667 has quit [Changing host] 10:03:00 -!- Guest39667 is now known as lvh 10:04:02 -!- drage has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 10:05:49 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:25 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:35 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:05 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:25:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:03 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 10:43:43 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43:57 -!- Zermako has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:44:01 -!- Zermak is now known as Zermako 10:44:47 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:54 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:03 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:01 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:13 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:04:20 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:53 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:19:37 -!- mason--- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:32:11 -!- Zermako has quit [] 11:32:51 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33:26 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:25 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:41:47 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 11:43:11 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Iceweasel 21.0/20130515140136]] 11:43:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:46 hmm, so if I have this: 11:45:47 temperature.cc: In member function ‘virtual void player::set_raw_current_temperature(float)’: 11:45:51 temperature.cc:65: error: no matching function for call to ‘player::cap_raw_upcoming_temperature()’ 11:45:54 actor.h:430: note: candidates are: virtual void actor::cap_raw_upcoming_temperature(float) 11:46:33 do i just add that declaration to player.h? it's already in actor.h 11:46:46 or do I need to include actor.h instead 11:46:50 <|amethyst> what's line 65? 11:47:15 void player::set_raw_current_temperature(float temperature) 11:47:15 { you.temperature_current = temperature; cap_raw_upcoming_temperature(); 11:47:15 } 11:47:29 <|amethyst> and what's the declaration? 11:47:32 <|amethyst> for cap_* 11:47:40 cap_raw_upcoming_temperature has a definition for actor, and is declared as virtual in actor.h; no player definition 11:48:02 <|amethyst> and takes a float parameter 11:48:06 <|amethyst> which you aren't passing 11:48:11 <|amethyst> default arguments are not inherited 11:48:49 <|amethyst> not of virtual functions 11:48:57 oh huh, it doesn't even need that param 11:49:13 <|amethyst> also, if it's not going to be overridden, don't make it virtual 11:49:24 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:34 <|amethyst> if it's just that you're not overriding it yet, that's fine 11:50:45 Eronarn: is player.cc overriding the function 11:50:55 Eronarn: this is one of the things i mentioned the other day 11:51:05 you have to declare the function in actor.h and player.h 11:51:11 if player.cc is overriding it 11:51:23 <|amethyst> < Eronarn> cap_raw_upcoming_temperature has a definition for actor, and is declared as virtual in actor.h; no player definition 11:51:59 right yeah 11:52:06 it doesn't need to be virtual even then 11:52:32 although according to that article, if it's protected then it might as well be virtual 11:54:53 in case you want to override it one day 11:54:53 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:54:53 <|amethyst> we don't maintain ABI compatibility of our classes, so it's fine to make it virtual later when that's needed 11:54:53 -!- lvh has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:54:53 it provides more information if it's*not* virtual 11:55:04 since when you're looking at actor.h if you see something is virtual then you can assume there's another implementation in player.h or monster.h 11:55:39 -!- Gmork_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56:02 <|amethyst> it's also somewhat more efficient, because if it's virtual every actor has to carry around a function pointer 11:56:05 -!- Miron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56:11 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:35 somewhere else i read that once one member of class is virtual, there's no real overhead in anything else being virtual 11:56:58 <|amethyst> oh right 11:57:03 <|amethyst> vtable is per class 11:57:09 <|amethyst> so the objects just need one pointer 11:57:41 -!- LoremIpsum_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:41 -!- neuwiz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:50 of course, virtual functions are slower 11:58:07 not by a lot, so this matters only in very tight loops 11:58:15 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:58:21 -!- Xjs|moonshine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:52 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:30 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:38 -!- Comradin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:16 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 12:02:35 -!- m1nced has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:03:38 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:40 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:13 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1458-gad1601e (34) 12:07:22 useful to know 12:07:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:07:48 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:23 making progress, down to just a handful of compilation errors... 12:11:38 -!- Duralumin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:38 it compiles, release it 12:16:32 what does 'error: functional cast expression list treated as compound expression' generally refer to 12:18:44 -!- Sudo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:19:28 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 12:21:00 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:19 <|amethyst> something like int(x,y) probably? 12:21:33 <|amethyst> what's the line? 12:22:41 -!- absolutego_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:25:38 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:39 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26:48 BlastHardcheese: it's not just about compilation you know 12:26:50 BlastHardcheese: we have to make sure it's all nicely space and formatted too 12:27:25 if the spacing is nice and neat and tidy then it must work properly 12:29:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:25 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:16 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:45 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 12:37:21 -!- fdel is now known as Nexos 12:38:23 -!- timpakya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:56 -!- codile has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:39:46 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:52 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:50 -!- quazi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:48 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:05 -!- ekix_ is now known as ekix 12:53:34 crazy suggestion: maybe lorc's heat aura should just not hurt allies 12:58:28 here we go again 13:01:05 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:04:22 mumra: Readability is probably a very good thing in a big project like this too. :I 13:05:18 Bloax: exactly it's more important than a mere *convenience* like the code actually running 13:06:00 i mean who actually runs crawl anyway, surely we all just play by following the source code 13:08:23 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:09 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:30 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:03 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:12 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 13:20:06 -!- sym has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:55 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:20 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:01 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:30 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:20 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 13:34:28 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:06 somehow I thought the "fixing box_level" commit was going to be about those eel pools 13:35:40 that generator got disabled 13:36:07 no no no that's layout_bigger_box 13:36:35 i mean the eel pools 13:36:53 box_level_dp purposefully makes mass eel pools 13:37:17 wasn't grunt fixing that recently 13:37:38 no that is what I thought the commit was going to be! 13:37:48 is this who's on first or what 13:38:29 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 13:43:12 that's what i'm asking you! 13:44:14 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 13:44:29 bmfx (L20 KoMo) (Spider:2) 13:46:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:50:59 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:57 -!- SaintWacko_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:23 -!- timpakay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:19 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:58 -!- quazi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:12:33 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:16:25 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:19:03 -!- Guest81510 is now known as magicpoints 14:19:48 <|amethyst> !lm bmfx crash -log 14:19:49 11. bmfx, XL20 KoMo, T:38558 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bmfx/crash-bmfx-20130606-184428.txt 14:21:32 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:07 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22:23 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:23 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:26:23 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 14:35:48 -!- syncopath has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:39 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:37:06 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:23 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 14:39:26 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:03 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 14:41:17 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 14:42:16 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:54 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:15 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:46:32 -!- syncopath has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:09 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:29 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:53:03 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:51 -!- Jim_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:56:02 hmm, that web autoexplore loop again 14:56:55 -!- WildSam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:06 This feels rather hacky to me... I want to make flay damage ignore guardian spirit (since it doesn't refund the mp lost this way, and it would be awkward for it to do so anyway) 14:59:30 The most straightforward way seems to be to make flay damage its own ktype, except it feels really odd to add a ktype for something that, by definition, can never kill you 14:59:57 And ktypes need a bunch of code elsewhere too, I think 15:00:21 So at the moment I am doing a string comparison with the aux =/ 15:00:51 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 270 seconds] 15:01:14 <|amethyst> wouldn't be the first time 15:01:41 I know, I know 15:01:42 <|amethyst> _maybe_spawn_jellies does strstr(aux, "torment") 15:01:48 Haha 15:02:21 DracoOmega: just put it in with the beam code 15:02:24 nobody will notice 15:02:30 But it's not IN the beam code 15:02:37 Those are actually a little more orderly looking, to be honest 15:04:00 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:05:09 quasit (155) | Spd: 13 | HD: 3 | HP: 6-24 | AC/EV: 5/17 | Dam: 305(drain dexterity), 205(drain dexterity), 205(drain dexterity) | 05demonic | Res: 06magic(5), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 45 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 15:05:09 <|amethyst> %??quasit 15:05:10 <|amethyst> doh 15:05:14 -!- letmeon has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:27 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:55 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08:41 -!- Egglet has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:10:03 |amethyst: you should get your IRC client to delay all messages by a few seconds, and redirect them to another channel if you say doh 15:10:06 -!- absolutego_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:10:21 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:03 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:48 -!- Nexos is now known as fdel 15:12:56 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 15:13:06 Hahaha 15:13:34 So apparently Crypt is twice as quiet as Tomb is 15:13:38 Who knew? 15:13:44 (Well, possibly anyone doing newcrypt, maybe -.-) 15:15:32 FR: axe ambient noise already 15:16:12 Well, I am greatly increasing it for Crypt, since it plays very poorly with the new monster set 15:16:28 maybe bump it up a little in Zot while you're in there 15:16:29 On a layout that isn't full of doors, getting into a fight is a lot like being marked 15:16:45 When I did it last night, I fought like 80% of Crypt:1 and 2 at the entry stairs 15:16:48 DracoOmega: increasing, ie, eliminating 15:17:17 Well, I hadn't meant to touch other branches at the moment, just one that I knew felt like an actual problem 15:17:18 -!- yalue has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:22 I hadn't given the others much consideration 15:17:34 Crypt has a whopping -20 noise though 15:18:03 SourceForge just spammed me with >15 mails about screwing up with SVN and git repositories. We don't have anything there anymore, do we? 15:18:14 (Meaning everything is 10 louder on average, and up to 20 louder, I think) 15:18:23 Haste: kinda like fire storm 15:18:27 :P 15:18:27 that is huge 15:18:32 Yes, it is huge 15:18:36 considering the loudest things in the game are like 20-30 15:18:42 gong is 40 15:18:44 I think gong is louder 15:18:45 Yeah 15:18:50 But gong is SUPPOSED to be insane 15:18:50 gong in crypt: the true experience 15:19:07 The ambient noise for a lot of places is single-digit 15:19:16 i arbitrarily chose 50 for that new gong item 15:19:17 Possibly people just didn't notice before since zombies are slow and dumb 15:19:17 tomb:3 strat: wear gong, summon things, make them hostile, block their attacks, teleport, pick up the rune while all the mummies run to the < 15:19:26 And I think dumb things are a lot worse at following noise 15:19:33 Now there are far more things that are neither slow OR dumb 15:20:12 DracoOmega: did you see the Box of Beasts upgrade i pushed earlier on my branch? 15:20:26 instead of reducing noise just mostly, we can make it 0 everywhere 15:20:42 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:20:59 so there are no spoily differences between the same act done in different places 15:21:07 -!- Zermako has quit [] 15:21:13 any reason not to? 15:21:40 Well, some people said that due to more open layouts on Zot, it might benefit from a mild bit of increase ambient noise too, I think 15:21:47 I am not sure that is overall a good reason to keep it though 15:22:25 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:22:28 Really, I think it is not obvious that branches have different noise levels, even if the degree of swarming becomes somewhat obvious. It's sort of conflated to a monster density and layout issue, I think 15:23:50 Though it's true that some of these other branches that have adjusted ambient noise, I did not even realize did 15:23:56 For example, Slime is apparently quiet 15:26:47 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 15:26:50 i dislike ambient noise also 15:27:13 though I think even in its absence, there should be a better way of telling how much noise you're doing 15:27:17 On a seperate note, I have noticed that webtiles does not get the screen flash from lost soul revival. I think I have seen other things flash the screen there though, at least at one point. Anyone have any idea what the issue might be? 15:27:44 like some kind of "Noise" status light that is coloured according to a sliding average of the noise you made in the past few turns that appears when it's above some threshold, maybe 15:28:02 DracoOmega: it very possibly needs implementing in the .js client 15:28:08 a lot of other things were like that recently 15:28:15 edlothiol is the best to ask 15:28:26 Recently? Did something change with the frontend recently or something? 15:28:34 semitransparent clouds 15:28:47 also the UI changes for Djinni/Lava Orc 15:28:48 And this broke other things? 15:29:01 no, these things just didn't work in webtiles 15:29:06 until they had been implemented 15:29:10 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:23 also the web trap overly which i did fairly recently as well 15:29:34 several enums need replicating by hand on the webtiles side 15:29:40 otherwise it doesn't know what to do with them 15:29:58 i'm just thinking since the lost soul revival is a new effect, it might just need the enum supporting over there 15:30:59 Well, it just uses regular screen flashes, I mean 15:31:05 Like slime creature merging or drain life or whatnot 15:31:14 Except there's no visible flash when it happens 15:31:29 is it the same colour as the other flashes? 15:31:29 I have not seen the other effects happen recently enough to notice if they're working or not, though 15:31:36 Slightly different, I think 15:31:45 it might need a css overlay with that specific colour 15:31:48 Hmmmm 15:32:02 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:32:35 -!- Vampire has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:32:39 it's possible something else has changed which broke the general effect of course 15:32:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:02 but it's more likely that flash colours need implementing individually :) 15:34:09 Heh 15:34:17 I don't have a ready source of alternate flashing to test there at the moment 15:34:58 I don't recall noticing it off the death knights in Crypt either, now that I think of it, but I am not certain they actually USED drain life or not 15:36:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:37:00 slime creatures aren't merge flashing 15:37:31 not working for refrigeration either 15:37:43 hmm 15:37:53 it might be to do with the changes to default delays? 15:38:23 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:40:15 Did WebTiles screen flash work at some point? 15:40:31 I think so 15:40:33 possibly never 15:40:52 I could be wrong, I guess - I don't play it enough to be confident, but I THOUGHT I had seen it at one point 15:41:05 DracoOmega: you could use the spell targetting flash 15:41:11 if you have any targetted spells 15:41:13 i don't specifically remember seeing it 15:41:45 I didn't know it existed, until I was testing something with the offline client like a month ago 15:41:49 But maybe I just forgot about it 15:43:25 staves acquirement by 4tharraofdagon 15:43:25 Forest unique "Pan" named after branch Pandemonium by chris 15:44:00 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:01 -!- Qwertycoatl has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:36 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:30 <|amethyst> I may have broekn flashing? 15:46:41 <|amethyst> %git da9e56 15:46:41 Could not find commit da9e56 (git returned 128) 15:46:46 <|amethyst> %git da99e56 15:46:46 07|amethyst * 0.13-a0-634-gda99e56: Don't crash after some view-flashes while travelling. 10(4 weeks ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=da99e5649b07 15:47:40 <|amethyst> I didn't test that in webtiles 15:47:46 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:56 -!- ilyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:50:59 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:51:27 -!- Ragnor has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:52:48 -!- effigy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:52:53 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:49 hmm 15:54:26 the problem is that you.flash_colour is reset in viewwindow before tiles.load_dungeon is called 15:54:54 moving the reset after the load_dungeon call makes the flash work in webtiles, but I'm not sure if that will have other implications 15:56:23 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 15:56:34 <|amethyst> edlothiol: as long as it's cleared before returning it shouldn't cause the crash I fixed, anyway 15:56:53 <|amethyst> you.flash_where that is 15:58:40 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:59 -!- eclecticist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:19 I'll commit it, I can't actually imagine it will break anything 16:00:52 (famous last words) 16:01:13 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-1459-ga756ab3: Fix Webtiles view flash. 10(42 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a756ab3dad3f 16:01:14 <|amethyst> if no problems show up (someone remember to test local tiles) it should probably be backported to 0.12 16:02:51 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:12 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 16:10:14 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:13:01 -!- AriaC has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:40 -!- AriaB has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:50 -!- AriaC is now known as AriaB 16:14:07 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:13 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:57 -!- NekoRex has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 16:18:49 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:20:53 Is there some good reason why wasps aren't actually insect intelligence? 16:21:32 (I realize this means Ely worshippers would be able to pacify them, but still) 16:22:14 DracoOmega: can you check if that flag has ever been modified? 16:22:15 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:22:18 !messages 16:22:19 (1/1) |amethyst said (1h 37m 42s ago): oh, no worries. It wasn't that, just that I realised I was wasting time by talking when I could have been fixing the problem :) 16:22:27 ah, phew :) 16:22:52 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:17 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:47 -!- thann has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:55 <|amethyst> once upon a time yellow wasp was I_INSECT; but giant mosquito, giant blowfly, and red wasp were still I_PLANT then 16:24:16 <|amethyst> %git 2c29d7b 16:24:16 07Keskitalo * 0.6.0-a0-424-g2c29d7b: Monster intelligence changes, for consistency and to spice up pacification a bit: 10(3 years, 10 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c29d7b55ce4 16:24:17 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:24:17 That makes even less sense 16:24:32 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:00 Well, I can see making it consistent, but I'm not sure that was made consistent in the right direction 16:25:14 Like, I am making it so that non-mindless things object to ranged attacks from the player now 16:25:20 And wasps are sort of an odd exception 16:25:36 I mean, it's still consistent in that they're mindless, but feels a little odd to me anyway 16:27:13 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:14 DracoOmega: at least it seems to have been intentional. Eino was/is quite into pacification. 16:27:53 This is not really a pacification quibble, though they happen to be connected in terms of implementation 16:28:55 perhaps insects shouldn't be pacifiable? 16:29:23 That might also be fine. Problem is that, at the moment, reptile intelligence is actually the same as insect intelligence (this also feels odd to me, incidentally) 16:29:25 <|amethyst> does that mean hydrae too? 16:29:40 Like, I feel as though reptiles should be animal intelligence 16:30:03 |amethyst: hydrae are reptiles/amphibians, their intelligence is currently an alias to I_INSECT 16:30:49 but doesn't need to stay this way 16:31:10 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:31:12 that the data is already there makes code changes easier 16:31:13 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:54 Just make it an alias to I_ANIMAL instead? :P 16:31:58 also i'm pretty sure real insects have "minds" 16:32:05 -!- jetnerd has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 16:32:13 I don't really see why you shouldn't be able to pacify a wasp 16:32:16 if you can pacify a rat 16:32:27 Well, they're not 'mindless' in the strictest sense, but it seems reasonable that they might be too primative and instinctual to understand this whole pacification thing 16:32:28 arguably pacifying anything animal is strange 16:32:31 wasps are pretty mean 16:32:32 even scum such as PETA doesn't consider insect to be anything but pests 16:32:58 elliott: Well, rats can take to domestication a lot better than wasps can, I'd say 16:33:22 rats are fairly smart, actually 16:33:23 Since they're a lot less instinct-based than insects are, with more capacity to learn, etc. 16:33:29 DracoOmega: pacification also teaches them how to find stairs, presumably :P 16:33:33 would explain why they're so bad at it 16:33:37 Yes, well pacification is odd in other ways 16:33:59 Not being able to pacify animals in general seems bad, but I am not sure that not being able to pacify any insect is 16:33:59 would be a great ely nerf to forbid animal pacification, 'sallI'msayin' 16:34:11 -!- iris has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:34:33 geekosaur: it's more that I see "pacification" as an act of diplomacy, given its flavour and effects 16:34:54 I'm pretty sure there's funky mind-affecting stuff going on, frankly :P 16:35:13 i think pacification of animals seems intuitive to most players 16:35:14 a bee keeper would say there's a different in that regard between bees and wasps :) (Of course, bees aren't tame, although there are huge difference in hostility between various types of bees) 16:35:15 <|amethyst> elliott: would it be feasible to get to *** like that? 16:35:17 You fill their minds and spirits with peace and joy or something 16:35:23 (And then they go on a murderous rampage) 16:35:41 killer wasps 16:35:44 ely is basically the god of brainwashing 16:35:45 dpeg: Hostility, sure. But I think that's itself more instinctive than trained 16:35:48 |amethyst: well, there are lots of goblins and orcs and stuff... (and weapon sacrifice [canned laughter]). maybe you'd have to tweak piety gains, though 16:35:52 elliott: a rat has a brain, an insect has a lump of ganglia. Heck, cut a cockroach's head and it will live for days. 16:36:00 dpeg: You're not really teaching the bees to be nice, as such, as I understand it ^^; 16:36:08 DracoOmega: no, you don't 16:36:20 It's just they're already less inclined to attack you 16:36:25 (my father in law is a bee keeper, so I have a little second hand experience) 16:36:29 But everything in Crawl already hates you, so.... 16:36:41 <|amethyst> FR: scroll of fog slows insects 16:36:49 I don't think what pacification does is cmparable to taming an animal, really... given that it behaves the same as when you presumably convince the hobgoblin to devote itself to a life of being nice 16:36:52 haha 16:37:01 DracoOmega: and this because bees have been bred over the years to be more productive and less hostile... it's artificial selection, if you want 16:37:22 * kilobyte has a @#$%^&* buzzing biting annoying insect in the room right now, so don't tell me the suckers have any qualities worth preserving :p 16:37:35 -!- Somepony is now known as Aponym 16:37:35 * dpeg hands kilobyte a fly swatter. 16:37:39 do people really breed bees? 16:37:42 Or do you need napalm? 16:37:48 I would assume beekeepers do! 16:37:49 LexAckson: yes 16:37:52 dpeg: napalm would be nice, yeah 16:37:53 * geekosaur is suddenly reminded of a passage in _Mirabile_ 16:38:08 i know they 'keep' bees but breeding sounds tricky 16:38:11 well, i learned a new word out of this 16:38:13 "ethology" 16:38:49 anyway, we can keep the arbitrary exemption of some insects to be un-pacifiable, or we could make all insects like that 16:38:54 <|amethyst> LexAckson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenter_kits 16:39:17 dpeg: I generally rather the latter, but I have to admit that I don't personally enjoy or play Ely much, so I feel it would be best if someone who did commented 16:39:27 hahah awesome 16:39:30 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:42 FR: larva grafting 16:40:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:05 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:40:07 fr beekeeping skill 16:40:17 <|amethyst> it's interesting for there to be things you can't pacify, and there aren't a lot of those now 16:40:21 Ely could handle a nerf of some kind, I am sure, and probably this is not too large aside from early killer bees and Spider? 16:40:23 <|amethyst> particularly fast ones 16:40:38 Also moths of wrath and ghost moths, I guess 16:40:44 |amethyst: as a pacifier, the first oddity you encounter is that worms are not pacifiable. The new rule would mean that bee hives are an actual new threat... given how single-minded a pure pacifist game can be, that's probably alright. 16:40:46 At least, this seems an intuitive class of creatures to be unaffected 16:40:50 still not sure that counts as selective breeding 16:40:52 moth of wrath (04y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 9 | HP: 33-64 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 2505(rage) | fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 504 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 16:40:52 <|amethyst> %??moth of wrath 16:41:00 And intuitive and consistent is good 16:41:08 Wasps being odd exceptions is actually kind of bad, I think 16:41:13 DracoOmega: I like to play He, and I would be fine with the change. 16:41:15 but i guess you would just take your best queen for the jenter kit 16:41:28 pretty neat 16:41:44 LexAckson: you can order queen bees by mail 16:43:07 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 49-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1805(drain dexterity), 1805(drain strength), 1208(nasty poison) | fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 2288 | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 16:43:07 <|amethyst> %??ghost moth 16:43:08 DracoOmega: so if you want to delegate the responsibility, you can amend the commit message by (dpeg). 16:43:11 * dpeg is used to get the flak :) 16:43:13 -!- Ragnor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:13 -!- dienosore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:14 Haha 16:43:31 lol 16:44:24 <|amethyst> so the question is whether to insert I_REPTILE between I_INSECT and I_ANIMAL, or to make it an alias for the latter 16:44:26 -!- dienosore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:33 I got a commit ready 16:44:43 with splitting 16:44:58 what would that do to reptiles (in terms of their behavior)? 16:45:07 -!- timpakay has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:10 like... they're already smart enough to avoid clouds 16:45:26 i guess they'd be better at e.g. figuring out where invisible players are? 16:45:52 haha, bees are sold by the pound 16:46:04 I don't see that I_REPTILE needs to be different than I_ANIMAL 16:46:05 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: it does affect cloud behaviour somewhat 16:46:16 It's too fine-grained a distinction with almost no real consequences here 16:46:35 either I_REPTILE should not exist, or it should be < I_ANIMAL 16:46:42 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:43 (I was just making I_REPTILE = I_ANIMAL on my end) 16:46:47 and only do the latter if we actually want to do something with it 16:46:50 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: an I_ANIMAL thing with a negative resist to the cloud will avoid the cloud regardless of HP 16:47:04 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 275 seconds] 16:47:15 |amethyst: Well, not only do I think no I_REPTILES have negative resists, it seems fine for them to also have this behavior 16:47:22 I do not think there is a meaningful distinction or a good reason for one 16:47:30 why should I_REPTILE be significantly different from I_INSECT, ie, status quo? 16:47:38 kilobyte: Well, for pacification purposes 16:47:43 If I_INSECT is made unpacifiable 16:47:48 Lizards should still be pacificable 16:47:50 let's leave it as-is, other than making pacification more consistent 16:48:30 so this is all that's left... https://gist.github.com/Eronarn/fbc11bfbb0a79654a09e 16:48:33 Anyway, what are you doing on your end now, since I fear we may be duplicating each others work at present, to a degree 16:49:06 yes, if the only distinction between REPTILE and INSECT is pacification, that's enough, imo 16:49:53 kilobyte: The above was intended for you, by the way :) 16:50:21 <|amethyst> yeah, it looks like there would be no behaviour changes from splitting it 16:50:39 <|amethyst> whereas there would be changes from merging with I_ANIMAL 16:50:52 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:05 <|amethyst> (assuming mons_tracking_range puts I_REPTILE with I_INSECT anyway) 16:53:21 hmm, Spider... 16:53:34 <|amethyst> spiders can get I_REPTILE :) 16:54:04 I_CREEPY_CRAWLIE 16:54:09 <|amethyst> they're usually thought of as smarter than insects anyway 16:54:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1460-gedba983: Deparenthesize return (simple_variable). 10(3 days ago, 6 files, 11+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edba98300cb4 16:54:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1461-g7134ea5: Don't let chaos weapons turn you into a tree if there's no one around. 10(33 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7134ea5dd903 16:54:19 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1462-g421489d: Split I_INSECT and I_REPTILE. 10(5 minutes ago, 7 files, 12+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=421489decb1c 16:54:21 pushed the split 16:54:39 kilobyte: What do you mean by 'Spider', anyway? Is there some other issue here? 16:55:03 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: an entire branch being unpacifiable would be.... maybe not bad, but worrisome 16:55:12 <|amethyst> particularly when it's on rotation with a pacifiable branch 16:55:15 I don't think it's necessarily bad, even if it is notable 16:55:28 Since some branches are a lot easier/harder with certain gods/builds anyway 16:55:53 I mean, it is the most major consequence of the pacification change, certainly 16:56:03 -!- krag2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:17 -!- C7ty1 has quit [Quit: Hard work pays off in the future, laziness pays off now] 16:56:59 And by the time you are going to do Spider, your character can certainly have other ways of dealing with it trained up 16:57:00 He can just do poison/silver/golden :) 16:57:01 pacification change? 16:57:17 * alefury reads the commit log 16:57:20 <|amethyst> alefury: DracoOmega is going to make it not affect I_INSECT 16:57:20 er, water 16:57:21 alefury: Discussing making insects in general unpacifiable, instead of just wasps being weird 16:57:25 <|amethyst> alefury: hasn't happened yet 16:57:41 there arent a lot of insects 16:57:54 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 16:57:55 killer bees are a key point 16:57:58 but i guess a slight ely nerf is fine, and insects really are kind of dumb 16:58:17 <|amethyst> alefury: spiders are all I_INSECT 16:58:19 Really, I think killer bees and Spider and zot moths are the main effects here 16:58:21 is this a change that will generate a lot of buzz? 16:58:31 But Ely can probably take it 16:58:32 no 16:58:33 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: early ants 16:58:40 what if we just nerfed Ely in the whole branch? 16:58:51 ely is only really popular among good players, and those dont complain so much 16:58:53 no one says you absolutely need to get these three runes 16:58:54 |amethyst: Hmmm... maybe, though they are less dangerous 16:59:01 because they know ely is op 16:59:13 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=worker_ant 16:59:14 14643. 4thArraOfDagon the Firebug (L3 DgFE), slain by a worker ant on D:4 on 2013-06-06 21:02:04, with 76 points after 570 turns and 0:02:50. 16:59:20 <|amethyst> !lg * killer=killer_bee 16:59:21 12289. Val the Skirmisher (L5 OpWn), slain by a killer bee (kmap: lemuel_insect_pit) on D:5 on 2013-06-06 19:30:30, with 438 points after 3748 turns and 0:16:21. 16:59:32 <|amethyst> wow, closer than I thought 16:59:35 Well, some of that is just that fewer characters live long enough to run into bees 16:59:36 Compared to ants 16:59:39 |amethyst: hive? 16:59:49 <|amethyst> !lg * recent killer=killer_bee 16:59:50 3364. Val the Skirmisher (L5 OpWn), slain by a killer bee (kmap: lemuel_insect_pit) on D:5 on 2013-06-06 19:30:30, with 438 points after 3748 turns and 0:16:21. 16:59:51 <|amethyst> !lg * recent killer=ant 16:59:52 No games for * (recent killer=ant). 16:59:56 So bees are comparatively more dangerous, I think 16:59:57 <|amethyst> !lg * recent killer=worker_ant 16:59:58 5865. 4thArraOfDagon the Firebug (L3 DgFE), slain by a worker ant on D:4 on 2013-06-06 21:02:04, with 76 points after 570 turns and 0:02:50. 17:00:13 I could be wrong I guess, but that's my feeling 17:00:19 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: yeah 17:00:25 worker ant (05a) | Spd: 12 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 808(poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | XP: 34 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 17:00:25 %??worker ant 17:00:32 In any case, Ely can most likely still save you from dying to an ant, anyway :P 17:00:36 Since you can heal yourself and poison and such 17:01:44 arent worker ants mostly pre-temple anyway? 17:01:49 i mean, dangerous 17:01:56 <|amethyst> right, I was thinking early He 17:02:05 !lg * recent ikiller=worker_ant s=place 17:02:06 5859 games for * (recent ikiller=worker_ant): 2583x D:4, 1098x D:3, 971x D:2, 593x D:5, 214x D:6, 198x D:1, 63x D:7, 59x D:8, 32x D:9, 21x Temple, 11x D:10, 4x Lair:2, 3x Lair:1, 2x Lair:3, 2x D:11, 2x D:12, Lair:6, D:13, Lair:4 17:02:25 <|amethyst> they're certainly high on my pacification priority when I start encountering them 17:02:26 -!- tcjc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:57 <|amethyst> not complaining, btw: Ely needs nerfs 17:03:58 -!- spacepreacher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:05:21 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:05:31 i think spider being mostly immune to pacification is fine 17:05:51 at least for testing it in trunk 17:06:12 alefury: agreed 17:06:26 ely allows fairly easy switching to other good gods anyway 17:06:27 "Ely needs nerfs" -- true devspeak :) 17:06:40 * dpeg hands out giant nerf hammers to everyone 17:06:52 buff troll fighting aptitudes 17:06:56 -!- krag has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:00 krag: Hi! 17:07:02 ~true non-devspeak 17:07:13 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:14 * alefury throws a large rock at Bloax 17:07:17 * dpeg hits Bloax with a miniature fly swatter. 17:07:33 'ere it goes 17:07:36 * Bloax slaps dpeg around with a large alefury 17:07:42 so, what with Spider? 17:07:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1463-gc40485d: Upgrade wasps to insects. 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c40485dcaefc 17:07:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1464-g95a992c: Upgrade spiders and craps to reptiles. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95a992c011ea 17:07:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1465-gb83cbb6: Don't let Ely pacify insects. 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b83cbb67c493 17:08:03 kilobyte: let it go (spiders as INSECT, at least for testing) 17:08:10 ok 17:08:16 crawl has craps now? 17:08:27 -!- Pepe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:28 fr casino branch 17:08:42 or maybe portal vault 17:08:57 woo dungeon keeper 17:09:00 clearly, we need I_ARTHROPOD 17:09:14 (2) 17:09:15 <|amethyst> I_MOLLUSC > I_HIGH 17:09:21 |amethyst: true! 17:09:30 I_PLAYER < I_PLANT 17:09:31 seriously? i always doubted that 17:09:36 "The kraken recites Shakespear. You die!" 17:09:39 the mollusc thing i mean 17:09:51 @??kraken 17:09:51 kraken (13X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 16 | HP: 180-232 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Dam: 50 | cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 3227 | Sp: spawn tentacles, ink cloud | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 17:09:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1466-gfbb8015: Revert "Upgrade spiders and craps to reptiles." 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fbb8015d47d8 17:10:02 kilobyte: thanks 17:10:02 <|amethyst> Bloax: MONS_PLAYER says: I_HIGH /*uh huh, sure sure*/ 17:10:18 go home MONS_PLAYER 17:10:21 you're high 17:10:53 -!- BlinkFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:11:28 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:11:45 kilobyte: as you're here now: what do you think of Giant Orange Brain form, now that Jelly form is dead? 17:13:11 not sure 17:13:21 where does in_bounds actually get defined? i see it in a lot of .h files and none of them seem to have the desired effect 17:13:26 no problem... just thought it might tickle your fancy 17:13:31 it was proposed to let the player become high-tier jellies, like an acid blob 17:13:33 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1467-g48f42c2: Avoid a constness warning. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=48f42c2f12c3 17:13:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:00 Is there a simple and quick way to just expunge a commit from my local history? As I have basically duplicated some of what kilobyte just pushed already, but have other commits ready to be pushed that are still good 17:14:13 <|amethyst> Eronarn: coord.h 17:14:18 giant orange brain form... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k&t=3s 17:14:18 DracoOmega: is it the last one? 17:14:24 git reset --hard HEAD^ 17:14:31 if not, git rebase -i gs/master 17:14:44 (where "gs" is whatever you named Gitorious as) 17:14:58 possibly "origin" if you don't use other remotes 17:15:02 It's the most recent commit, yes 17:15:13 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:15:23 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:15:36 |amethyst: well that works which is a little confusing because it's code copied from mon-stuff.cc and that doesn't include it... 17:16:44 <|amethyst> Eronarn: it does indirectly through misc.h 17:17:18 -!- krag has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:17:44 ok cool down to just temperature.cc:383: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘else’ 17:17:53 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:16 -!- mnoqy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:17 <|amethyst> Eronarn: what's the line just before that one? 17:18:38 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1468-g00ff1d1: Make flay damage ignore guardian spirit 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00ff1d1df3c9 17:18:38 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1469-g21467c0: Greatly increase ambient noise in Crypt 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21467c0cc5a2 17:18:38 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1470-g57a9355: Thin Crypt monsters a little 10(63 minutes ago, 3 files, 11+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57a9355b23a3 17:18:38 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1471-gd28d70e: Make non-mindless creatures turn hostile when damaged by ranged attacks 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d28d70e7ab6c 17:19:12 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:07 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.13-a0-1466-gfbb8015 17:20:07 <|amethyst> %??-version 17:20:21 giant newt (03l) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 1 | HP: 1-3 | AC/EV: 0/15 | Dam: 3 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(4), 12drown | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 17:20:21 <|amethyst> %??giant newt 17:20:30 spider (10s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 1004(medium poison) | web sense | Res: 06magic(8) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 43 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 17:20:30 <|amethyst> %??spider 17:20:40 <|amethyst> oh, duh 17:20:55 <|amethyst> too much copy-paste 17:20:59 spider (10s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 1004(medium poison) | web sense | Res: 06magic(8) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 43 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 17:20:59 <|amethyst> %??spider 17:21:02 hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 50-89 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 1214 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile. 17:21:02 %??hydra 17:21:02 hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 50-89 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 1214 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile. 17:21:02 <|amethyst> %??hydra 17:21:15 er, it should be "insect" :p 17:21:27 unless you're faster than me 17:21:50 <|amethyst> ? 17:22:01 <|amethyst> I just recompiled 17:22:12 |amethyst: I was fixing monster, but I see you finished sooner 17:22:15 <|amethyst> I have a few monster commits 17:22:22 <|amethyst> ah 17:22:23 -!- syncopath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:39 yay, now i'm getting actor.o:(.rodata._ZTV5actor[vtable for actor]+0x698): undefined reference to `actor::get_raw_current_temperature() const' again... 17:23:02 <|amethyst> and is that function defined? 17:23:34 nah, adding them now. cpp is just very frustrating compared to python 17:25:04 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:54 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:55 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:30:40 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:48 yay it compiles :D playing my first one now 17:31:30 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 17:31:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:35 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:09 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:13 <|amethyst> Grunt: 18:32:05 < Mu_> this spriggan air mage just burned his forest down wtf 17:33:16 okay nevermind i can't effectively play crawl with how broken my computer is 17:33:50 <|amethyst> Grunt: maybe lightning bolt isn't the best spell for defenders of the forest :) 17:34:05 if anyone else wants to check it out though https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/commit/7ae81a44037c76f9c3f6486f27dc6f0cc246b2f7 17:34:20 seems to have at least some of the desired effects 17:34:29 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:35:42 some of it is code quality (split out to temperature.cc), some of it is balance (exponential decay) 17:36:17 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:36:35 -!- tw_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:35 -!- cptwinky has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- cbus has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Sequell has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- galehar has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Virigoth has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- dazzle has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Nerem has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- wumpus has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- brainwrinkle-fre has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Laany has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- squimmy has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- Grunt has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- caracal_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- yxhuvud2 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:36:36 -!- BrightCloud has quit [*.net *.split] 17:37:50 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:54 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:57 i think maybe bump up slow move too though 17:38:20 kilobyte: how many commits do you want me to split this into? 17:38:57 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:29 it's easier to merge than to split 17:39:45 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:45 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:49 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:40:26 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 17:40:27 kilobyte: that's why i'm trying to avoid splitting ;) 17:40:58 you mean, it's a massive monolithic change? 17:41:01 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:01 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:23 -!- Ragnor has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:41:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:42:11 kilobyte: well, it was a total rewrite of the stuff from mon-stuff.cc 17:42:17 moving it into temperature.cc 17:42:35 i could split out some of it from that, but some of it not so much... 17:43:00 I mean, moving vs balancing 17:43:12 it's almost impossible to see what was changed this way 17:44:52 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:00 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:32 looking at intentional balance fixes, it was just the exponential decay one 17:45:39 <|amethyst> right 17:45:42 though some of the rewrite might have changed behavior 17:45:47 <|amethyst> hm 17:46:05 <|amethyst> definitely the intentional change should be a separate commit 17:46:22 <|amethyst> and it would be good to verify there aren't unintentional changes in the other commit 17:46:27 <|amethyst> (s0 17:47:05 which would require moving over the old mon-stuff.cc functionality into a new file first and getting it working there... 17:48:13 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:13 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:13 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:16 i guess for now if anyone wants to try it out that would be a good first step, i don't have time to write anything additional tonight 17:51:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:01:30 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:31 -!- tw_ has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- cptwinky has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- galehar has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- Virigoth has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- Nerem has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- wumpus has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- brainwrinkle-fre has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:31 -!- squimmy has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:32 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:32 -!- Grunt has quit [*.net *.split] 18:01:32 -!- caracal_ has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:32 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:05 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:04:49 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:49 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:49 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:18 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:06:22 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:23 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:39 so ... i really want to just close #7168 18:09:47 mainly because of the way the ticket is worded 18:10:24 mumra_: Pan? 18:10:42 I actually agree that the unique name feels awkward to me, for what it's worth 18:10:53 Like, it's not that it is likely to be awkward in-game, but when people TALK about it 18:10:53 with extra annoyance points for setting the serverity to "block" 18:10:59 kilobyte: indeed 18:11:04 "Pan is really annoying" for example 18:11:08 To what are they referring? 18:11:18 DracoOmega: but also part of the charm... for me anyway 18:11:21 <|amethyst> Rename the branch to "Pandemonium" then 18:11:21 either way they are correct 18:11:27 DracoOmega: yes, the actual point of this report is not that wrong 18:11:35 :I 18:11:43 I think it's a cute little Pun. 18:11:44 * kilobyte is afraid of cobol fingers. 18:11:55 |amethyst: Next you'll be suggesting we rename Kiku to Kikubaaqudah 18:11:58 <|amethyst> use "Pand" as the abbreviation :) 18:12:03 Or however that is spelled >.> 18:12:04 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: no, Kikubaaqudgah 18:12:12 dpeg: on the other hand we don't want to Pander to the masses 18:12:12 Kikubaaqudgha. 18:12:16 What are you guys smoking. 18:12:21 <|amethyst> er, yeah 18:12:46 mumra_: no, we don't want to be fried in a pan 18:13:15 are we talking about a master chef or a pandemonium lord ?? 18:13:25 you never know with those panlords 18:13:28 |amethyst has to write "I will never misspell Kikubaaqudgha again." one hundred times on a local blackboard. 18:13:33 well i'm not the kind of Pansy that worries about these things 18:13:45 mumra_: just close it, for obnoxiousness 18:13:52 what's up with these Panda moans? 18:14:12 * dpeg doesn't like how this pans out. 18:14:57 -!- madjake has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:14:58 mumra_: 18:14:59 Kikubaaqudgha rasps: "You have failed me! Welcome... death!" 18:15:04 yeah, i could agree that it's a point worth discussing but when someone starts with "For some reason, this bug was not yet spotted by the developer committing said unique" it's really not going to grab my attention sPan 18:15:23 okay, I close it then 18:15:49 maaaaan, a line like "That the best thing for a man is not to be born, and if already born, to die as soon as possible." describing the philosophy of a proposed alternative flavour/name for the unique is great 18:16:00 you see, there was a time when people bragged about being able to spell such names 18:16:13 (also the unique isn't even particularly great anyway) 18:16:22 tenofswords: You realize that is an inpenetrable statement without context, yes? 18:16:55 he points towards Silenus which is quite interesting but we could actually do with a Dionysus unique imo 18:16:57 kilobyte: Darshan liked to do that! 18:17:14 dracoomega: as opposed to my usual? :P 18:17:20 tenofswords: good line indeed 18:17:25 tenofswords: This may not be opposed, no, but somewhat worse than usual :P 18:18:05 tenofswords: the point is more that this isn't a bug, it's the sort of thing people should discuss here or in the forum 18:18:37 I would guess that chrisoelmueller is too disenfranchised with both of those 18:18:42 Yes 18:18:48 Not the first time he's made a bug report like this 18:18:52 filling mantis with petty complaints about a flavour issue in a feature that is still in like pre-alpha doesn't really help anything 18:18:52 ahem, ahem 18:19:21 mumra_: I think it is reasonable to expect that commited content like this is probably at more than pre-alpha standards, though 18:19:28 If that's what you're saying :) 18:19:34 personally if any discussion on pan were to take place I'd prefer it to make the unique more interesting than 18:19:37 Pan (13c) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 3/25 | Dam: 35 | 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(72) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 6455 | Sp: mass confusion, metabolic englaciation, sleep, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:19:38 %??pan 18:19:55 i find the name pan for a unique highly questionable also 18:20:51 Well, the unique's name and the unique itself being good are two seperate questions/issues 18:20:59 Definitely I think it should have some other name, regardless 18:21:08 Anyone into etymology? Where does the "pan" in "pandemonium" come from? 18:21:27 dpeg: i'm 100% sure it comes from Pan 18:21:35 Yes 18:21:44 Well, no 18:21:46 <|amethyst> "all" 18:21:51 as in, the god that is 18:21:53 Panic is from Pan, though :P 18:21:57 all-demon-place 18:22:00 <|amethyst> You'd have to ask Milton to be sure 18:22:01 FR: rename the branch to Petermonium. 18:22:08 -!- wumpus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:08 -!- caracal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:21 Well, the issue here is that pandemonium can also mean two basically distinct things in English 18:22:32 'Place full of demons' and 'complete chaos' 18:22:40 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:22:45 <|amethyst> "Coined in 1667 by Milton in _Paradise Lost_, from Greek _pan-_ all + Late Latin _daemonium_ evil spirit, from ..." 18:22:46 good thing the branch is both 18:22:48 DracoOmega: I'm pretty sure the ordinary citizen knows neither of them :) 18:22:50 The latter of which is a lot more like the Pan reference in panic 18:22:57 "The ancient Greeks also considered Pan to be the god of theatrical criticism." -- i'm wondering was chris trying to be clever by theatrically criticising the name? 18:23:02 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:27 the choice of alternative proposed also adequately reflected select things 18:23:50 <|amethyst> "1779, place of wild uproar, in Swinburne's _Travels Through Spain_; transferred use of New Latin _Pandemonium_, name of the palace built by Satan as the central part of hell" 18:24:08 Yes, Silenius does seem better than Pan, anyway, and is still associated with 'elder of satyrs' and such 18:24:13 Even if it is uncertain if he himself was one 18:24:23 (Also, most people probably do not know who Silenius is) 18:24:28 Make all manuals in the inventory be automatically studied by Medar 18:25:02 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 18:26:39 crawl is generally less direct with its references as well, except in cases where directness is wholly appropriate, such as Murray 18:26:50 so Silenius does seem interesting 18:27:03 mumra_: indeed! People still don't believe me that Sigmund is Freud. 18:27:29 I have to bring a letter signed by Linley before they will believe, I'm afraid. 18:27:44 s|murray|nikola| 18:27:51 siggie is freud, my mind is blown 18:27:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 18:28:34 Also, probably it is more thematic for Silenius to have Alistair's than mass confusion? :P 18:28:48 "You're getting drunk whether you like it or not" 18:29:04 well Alistair's was the kind of thing i was thinking for a Dionysus unique# 18:29:06 (I am not sure this is a good idea, mind, but I laugh anyway) 18:29:09 <|amethyst> that would require monster Alistair's 18:29:19 |amethyst: Yeah, I know, but I don't think that's so hard 18:29:47 will it cheat and ignore player rPois 18:30:00 <|amethyst> confusing other monsters might not be so great 18:30:08 <|amethyst> unless you give them all clarity or something 18:30:17 <|amethyst> his retinue I mean 18:30:21 Well, does mass confusion already affect the stuff with him? 18:30:33 I don't recall whether that hits allies or not 18:30:44 it's made to only hit hostiles 18:30:49 Ah 18:31:53 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:08 (this is why I think pan's gimmickry isn't particularly great) 18:34:31 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Power to Pan!] 18:35:45 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 18:40:59 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:42:23 -!- fdel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:09 ok, so what with the ambient noise then? 18:43:16 the only big value left is Tomb 18:43:40 second largest Blade, at -7 18:43:48 well, since tomb is tomb, it's inherently already into people's mindsets that tomb is loud and needs to be dealt with as such 18:44:13 I don't think it's inherantly bad that the Tomb:3 welcoming committee tends to swarm you 18:44:16 ie, stair danced? 18:45:16 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:28 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:50:25 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:53:23 -!- Morphy__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:28 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-1472-ge0bb6f7: Always study all manuals in the inventory 10(2 hours ago, 21 files, 137+ 117-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0bb6f7075ee 19:01:28 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1473-g8930f3c: Fix a 32-bit compilation warning. 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8930f3c1b728 19:01:28 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1474-gb3ed1aa: Prevent breakage on the next major bump. 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3ed1aa93aee 19:06:33 Segfault when hit by acid from oklob plant by dalisclock 19:07:13 -!- ragingrage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:07:53 -!- Guest41718 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:02 -!- dfjiowe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:15 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:13:24 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1475-g4b12b84: Don't crash on auxless damage while spirit shielded (#7170) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b12b84e8e81 19:13:44 * Grunt appears! 19:14:32 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:15:09 will you disappear soon after 19:15:18 |amethyst: Oops. I tested it against other types of damage just to be sure, but I guess they all had auxes or something 19:15:19 you're like a metal slime 19:15:20 * Grunt crumbles away. 19:16:06 i think tomb:3 would be less annoying if it weren't so damn quiet personally 19:16:14 That might be true 19:16:29 it would also be easier but i'm not sure it'd be by much 19:16:40 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:37 Well, it's true that basically HAVING to stair dance things can be a bit tedious, and that's virtually always the case there now 19:17:44 But I think it was the case a fair bit of the time even before noise changes 19:18:02 i think normal tomb noise would make tomb a tiny bit less spoiler reliant, which would be kind of nice 19:18:05 Since there's still a lot of dangerous monsters in a small space, in an open area 19:18:37 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:58 How would people feel about allowing experience potions and cards train restricted skills? 19:19:16 Seems kind of weird to have wear a shield before drinking the potion 19:19:39 seems kind of weird to train shields :P ;) 19:20:08 This would allow you to do a few things you can't currently do, but I'm not sure it would be bad 19:20:10 also, dont you just have to carry a shield? 19:20:15 Since the potion is obviously giving you knowledge magically anyway 19:20:21 alefury: Nope, have to have it on 19:20:25 this bleeds into the whole "skill restrictions are stupid" debate 19:20:25 Weapons you only have to carry 19:20:30 Well, this would mean you could learn necro skill for that pain weapon without having found a necro spell yet 19:20:37 But it's not like !exp are exactly a common concern.... 19:20:49 Yeah, you can get rid of restrictions with manuals already 19:21:01 also training a shield without crippling yourself (having not found a buckler) 19:21:05 galehar said hed be fine with someone turning skill restrictions into purely a display thing, but he wouldnt do it itself because it was way too much work to code 19:21:17 nudge nudge wink wink 19:21:38 I think it definitely should allow weapon, shield and evo skills. Not sure about magic and invocations though. 19:22:01 at least i remember him saying that 19:22:18 Well, I sort of oppose being able to NORMALLY train skills for things you don't have, but I don't mind !exp being able to do this 19:22:23 why? 19:23:01 -!- Nakalein has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:23:14 Hmmm... I'm having a little bit of a hard time pinning down a firm reason, to be honest. But I mean stuff like training poison magic in anticipation of getting poison arrow eventually gifted, though you have no poison spells anywhere in the game to learn 19:23:23 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:53 so you want to protect bad players from making stupid decisions? 19:24:05 No 19:24:35 There are cases where training a skill you don't yet have is even a good decision 19:24:43 poison skill does not affect veh gifts i think, but people trying to game god gifts and possibly acquirement is a somewhat valid concern 19:24:55 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1476-ge4a341d: Drain "drained of all life by an it" of all its. 10(80 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4a341d56097 19:25:10 I hadn't thought about trying to game stuff 19:25:13 DracoOmega: certainly not in the case of current spell gifts 19:25:21 Well, you could do it with weapon gifts 19:25:30 Train only long blades from the start or something, even though you don't have one 19:25:38 It feels slightly bad/awkward to me, I guess? 19:25:41 But you do have one, you always have one :p 19:25:42 that will probably kill you 19:25:50 necro for pain weapon is really where it would be most relevant 19:25:54 yeah 19:25:56 So instead you just carry around a shit one, since you won't have to actually use it 19:26:00 anyway you should be able to train shields just carrying one 19:26:01 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:04 now that weapons work that way consistently 19:26:09 -!- marcmagu1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:19 Well, the idea was that you can quickly swap to a weapon, but not to a shield 19:26:27 Though that may not be a good enough reason now 19:26:27 the idea is bad 19:26:41 So, !exp. :P Allow all? All but invo? All but invo + spell schools? 19:26:44 DracoOmega: that is irrelevant given that it now ignores curses etc 19:26:56 elliott: Yes, I think this was just the original reasoning 19:26:59 I'm going to start resurrecting rl.heh.fi, maybe with WebTiles, how much traffic do WebTiles games approximately generate? 19:27:08 Medar: the restrictions still are useful for preventing display clutter 19:27:09 Medar: I am fine with !exp allowing anything, personally 19:27:31 i would prefer a unified solution to the problem :) 19:27:52 i don't see why !exp should behave specially 19:27:54 alefury: That's true. But I'd say for this rare case it helps more than hurts 19:27:55 but manuals behave specially 19:27:59 so maybe it should behave like manuals 19:28:08 joosa: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7812 19:28:31 Medar: thanks, this is useful 19:28:43 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:28:51 joosa: Also, yes please :) 100ms ping decrease wouldn't hurt 19:29:09 Medar: theres also lantea 19:29:24 Yeah, I heard. Is it up already? 19:30:00 i only read the tavern thread, the guy mentioned setting it up properly (and wiping saves) on saturday 19:30:08 elliott: Manuals bypass restrictions. So should !exp. You don't actually train, you just magically get the experience... 19:31:04 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:31:35 Anyway, this is just a quick few line improvement until someone feels like delving into this stuff. 19:32:48 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-1477-g51795e4: Make the plague shambler death cloud message be warning colored 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=51795e44d975 19:32:57 good night 19:33:16 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:42:56 Allow potions/cards of experience train restricted skills by Medar 19:43:15 vertexvortex (L4 LOHe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1019: screen write out of bounds: (1,14) into (42,13) (Zot (ZotDef)) 19:43:29 Possibly controversial commit incoming. 19:44:09 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1478-gab2ad4d: De-mimicify Orc:$ shops. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab2ad4d442a7 19:44:23 You'll get no controversy from me over that one 19:46:04 oh, is vaults:5 loot also drastically affected by the recent changes, like slime:6 is? 19:46:25 I suspect not? At least I seem to recall finding consumables and junk there anyway. 19:46:28 my current vaults:5 was super underwhelming but maybe it was just luck 19:46:42 But I couldn't tell you for certain 19:46:49 it was alkmost all consumables and arrows and such 19:47:06 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:33 total of 4 jewellery, 3 books, etc 19:49:35 Grunt: weren't you going to fix that crash vertexvortex hit? 19:50:49 rchandra: At a cursory glance I am not sure. There is a decent number of other things, but possibly also more junk than I remember? I am not certain what was affected by that change and what wasn't, though 19:50:50 I had a very kludgy patch for it; I was hoping someone would come up with something better. 19:51:41 it looked only slightly kludgier than the existing code 19:52:17 -!- johnny0_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:52:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:45 -!- Sky_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:14 <|amethyst> also, ash reskill ignores restrictions 19:53:42 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1479-ge03bc23: Don't let Lava Orcs incinerate ZotDef (#7150). 10(67 seconds ago, 2 files, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e03bc23d4ede 19:57:11 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:25 -!- Mingan has quit [Quit: I'll give myself a bulldog out of winston churchill] 19:59:48 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1479-ge03bc23 (34) 20:05:16 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:36 <|amethyst> Grunt: err 20:06:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: I get a crash whenever I try to play 20:07:14 ... 20:08:04 <|amethyst> I've got it 20:09:16 I feel like I'm breaking things more often than I should as of late. >:( 20:10:20 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 20:10:40 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:10 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1480-g0f56f73: Don't crash on startup. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f56f737304c 20:11:53 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1480-g0f56f73 (34) 20:16:42 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-1481-g48b0c40: Allow potions/cards of exp train restricted skills 10(41 minutes ago, 3 files, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=48b0c405dfe4 20:21:47 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1464-gddcaf8c: Start wizmode Box of Beasts with 50 charges 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ddcaf8cdcb97 20:21:47 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1465-g57b809c: Set console colour for Gong item 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57b809cd46d5 20:21:47 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1466-gf2faa83: New item "Sack of Spiders" 10(24 seconds ago, 8 files, 105+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2faa83eb5c3 20:21:49 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:01 !tell mumra I think we can use this for generating terrain: http://www.iquilezles.org/www/articles/voronoilines/voronoilines.htm 20:22:02 bh: OK, I'll let mumra know. 20:22:07 !seen mumra 20:22:08 I last saw mumra at Thu Jun 6 23:06:22 2013 UTC (2h 15m 45s ago) quitting with message 'Ping timeout: 276 seconds'. 20:22:11 hello 20:22:59 -!- letmeon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:23:16 bh: yes that seems to solve the main issue i've been seeing with worle 20:23:18 worley 20:23:27 :D 20:25:11 mumra_: what is a wizmode box of beasts 20:25:18 One made in wizmode, I assume 20:25:26 &o}box 20:25:46 When I needed to test evoker effects, I cheated and changed the code so they worked while inert :P 20:26:02 * SamB almost always uses &% 20:26:08 SamB: you need those latest commits for it to work without just falling apart :) 20:26:12 (Okay, mostly I coded the effects before I added the intert mechanism to them, but when I needed to do stuff AFTER that) 20:26:18 <|amethyst> SamB: less typing sometimes with &o :) 20:26:27 <|amethyst> mumra_: wizmode commands really look like they should be some esolang 20:26:44 Also, why must people playing branches you want to observe refuse to use autoexplore, and then move tediously slowly on top of it? 20:26:50 I swear they make a habit of this 20:26:50 <|amethyst> &o}box is really APL for solving the halting problem 20:26:53 DracoOmega: you also special cased wizmode to create them not-inert tho :) 20:27:00 No way to select-only last few skills in a full skill menu by neil 20:27:00 <|amethyst> except it's an actual box 20:27:09 1learn add 20:27:13 mumra_: Well, they're made non-intert everywhere 20:27:29 mumra_: nice portable altar following you around :b 20:27:53 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it would help if it didn't have a reputation for "now being dangerous" :) 20:27:56 yes i like it 20:28:04 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: assuming you're talking about Crypt 20:28:14 |amethyst: Sometimes Crypt, sometimes Forest, actually 20:28:14 it's my altar to Splittus the god of freenode 20:28:18 Crypt? Dangerous? What blasphemy is this? 20:28:19 :b 20:28:35 |amethyst: But I think some of these people just play that way all the time 20:28:36 Somehow 20:28:52 <|amethyst> maybe if I played like that I would make it to crypt more :) 20:28:54 It's just that normally I would leave and spectate someone more interesting :P 20:29:01 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=crypt s=char,xl 20:29:03 21495 milestones for * (br.enter=crypt): 762x MiFi (136x 27, 77x 23, 71x 21, 67x 25, 67x 24, 65x 20, 60x 26, 56x 22, 55x 19, 50x 18, 33x 17, 16x 16, 7x 15, 2x 14), 635x SpEn (76x 18, 73x 21, 65x 19, 64x 17, 60x 20, 52x 22, 50x 23, 48x 16, 35x 24, 28x 27, 27x 25, 25x 15, 18x 26, 10x 14, 3x 13, 12), 599x MiBe (84x 20, 69x 21, 68x 19, 61x 18, 46x 27, 45x 25, 45x 17, 41x 23, 40x 22, 39x 24, 25x 26, 19... 20:29:06 <|amethyst> oop 20:29:08 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=crypt s=char,xl 20:29:09 2 milestones for |amethyst (br.enter=crypt): FeTm (20), MiBe (17) 20:29:11 Heh 20:29:12 SamB: are you looking at the chimera? i should note that they're probably far too strong atm 20:30:00 !lm * br.enter=crypt s=xl 20:30:01 mumra_: I do not know what that is 20:30:01 21495 milestones for * (br.enter=crypt): 2344x 20, 2331x 19, 2175x 18, 2097x 21, 1972x 27, 1898x 22, 1704x 17, 1662x 23, 1432x 24, 1170x 25, 1096x 16, 968x 26, 462x 15, 130x 14, 39x 13, 9x 12, 3x 11, 2x 10, 8 20:30:13 !lm * br.enter=crypt xl=8 20:30:15 1. [2013-03-01 19:46:01] 4thArraOfDagon the Reanimator (L8 FeNe) entered the Crypt on turn 5497. (Vaults:4) 20:30:21 huh. 20:30:29 SamB: it's my redesigned box of beasts 20:30:30 !lm * br.enter=tom min=xl 20:30:30 No milestones for * (br.enter=tom). 20:30:35 !lm * br.enter=tomb min=xl 20:30:36 7701. [2007-04-20 05:13:29] wasp the Bewitcher (L14 SpSt) entered the Tomb of the Ancients on turn 11274. (Tomb:1) 20:30:45 <|amethyst> !lm * rune=golden min=xl 20:30:46 4999. [2007-04-21 07:58:03] wasp the Bewitcher (L15 SpSt) found a golden rune on turn 12745. (Tomb:3) 20:30:46 SamB: it generates a three-headed chimera composed of the parts of three separate animals 20:30:50 mumra_: I as just thinking it would be bad if "&%box of beasts" did something strange 20:31:11 s/ as/ was/ 20:31:28 oh right 20:31:30 compared to KITEM or whatever 20:31:42 well my intention was to make box of beasts _do_ something strange :) 20:32:00 &o does slightly strange things 20:32:07 in that it loads wands up with maximum charges 20:32:07 3 random animals? 20:32:08 mumra_: Wait, how is that supposed to work? I didn't look at the commit yet, but I had assumed that chimeras were a SPECIFIC monster in the box 20:32:24 DracoOmega: no, it's a bit like zombies 20:32:26 mumra_: yes that's fine 20:32:29 convenience and all 20:32:30 it has 3 base types 20:32:39 and uses attacks from each of them 20:32:54 Randomly, or all of them each round? 20:33:12 does it take any care in choosing which attacks from each? 20:33:12 Always ally? Or chance to be hostile? 20:33:13 when you generate a monster it picks 3 monsters from a list to make that chiera 20:33:18 s/chiera/chimera 20:33:24 johnstein: always ally 20:33:40 -!- Sudo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:40 attacks 1,2,3 are the primary attacks of each animal 20:33:56 what happens with breath attacks 20:33:56 and attack 4 is the secondary attack of the first base animal 20:33:59 for now, at least 20:34:00 i haven' 20:34:10 i haven't dealth properly with breath attacks yet 20:34:18 Breath attack code is rather bad, if you ask me 20:34:21 Some of it, anyway 20:34:22 at the moment it should have the breath attack of the first base monster 20:34:34 DracoOmega: I think I know what you mean 20:34:38 Like, there is some really awkward special-casing split over many different places 20:34:43 i want to do other things with secondary animals abilities 20:34:52 it seems to be a giant switch(monster_type) 20:34:57 so e.g. if one of the monsters is a bat, the resulting chimera will be batty 20:35:06 DracoOmega: oh, worse than one switch? 20:35:12 but i haven't added all the special casing for that kind of thing yet 20:35:12 Yes 20:35:14 Much 20:35:29 The swift is fine 20:35:32 switch* 20:36:23 But like, the breath abilities are spells, except not triggered by spells, and several distinct effects are used by the SAME spell except using other unrelated parameters that are set based on type checks inside other type checks, and which rely on information being improperly copied. And some of the checks are in one file, and some are in the beam code, and some are in the spell code. 20:36:25 well, in my testing a pearly dragon used as the first base monster was successfully using its breath attack, 20:36:35 so i don't know what voodoo made that work but it certainly works :) 20:36:47 i didn't have to implement anything anywhere near breath attacks 20:37:01 mon->base_type seems to just have certain effects like that already 20:37:10 pearly? 20:37:12 i'm typing too fast 20:37:13 pearl dragon uses a spell IIRC 20:37:22 Pearl dragons do use spells. 20:37:24 So do most dragons. 20:37:34 I think the only exceptions are regular dragons and ice dragons. 20:37:36 ok yeah, the chimera should get all the spells of the first base monster too 20:37:44 There may be one more. 20:37:59 i need to give it spells and other stuff from the other two monsters still 20:38:09 but the melee attacks are really strong already 20:38:13 <|amethyst> Grunt: Bone :P 20:38:27 since it's basically getting 3 primary attacks instead of 1 primary and 2 auxiliary 20:38:31 |amethyst: I mean of the dragons that have breath attacks :b 20:39:16 While this sounds cool, my immediate reservation is that unless the list is fairly selective, a lot of beast combos will be fairly plain and/or similar to a single base monster that stands out (except with more melee damage or something) 20:39:19 mumra: will it be chimera or chimaera? 20:39:21 <|amethyst> Grunt: looks like Xtahua's the only one you left out, and he's a regular dragon so 20:39:32 unknown monster: "fire dragon" 20:39:32 %??fire dragon 20:39:36 dragon (03D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 74-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 20, 13, 1307(trample) | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1358 | Sp: flame blast (3d24) | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 20:39:36 %??dragon 20:39:38 rchandra: depends whether we have unicod or not 20:39:41 XTAHUA SNEERS AT YOUR CHARACTERISATION OF HIM. 20:39:49 since i would want to conflate the ae glyph 20:39:53 why is it called "dragon" and not "fire dragon" 20:39:56 Oh, this reminds me of a thought I had eaerlier. 20:39:57 *earlier 20:40:07 Xtahua CAN OPEN DOORS. 20:40:16 unknown monster: "blue draconian" 20:40:16 %??blue draconian 20:40:18 Xtahua (05D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 133 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 35, 17, 2007(trample) | 10doors, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(177), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 5449 | Sp: flame blast (3d38) | Sz: Huge | Int: normal. 20:40:18 %??xtahua 20:40:20 draconian (07d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 19-107 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(12) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 583 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 20:40:21 %??draconian 20:40:24 Zot, being the realm of dragons, should be in Xtahua's branch list. <_< 20:40:25 bh: yes 20:40:28 DracoOmega: well the idea was mainly to make box of beasts do something a bit different that you can't get anywhere else 20:40:30 bh: that's his THING 20:40:33 <|amethyst> mumra_: I'd say it should be chimaera even in ascii 20:40:39 ??xtahua 20:40:40 xtahua[1/1]: A POWERFUL UNIQUE DRAGON, USUALLY FOUND IN THE MIDGAME. BREATHES PAINFUL (3D38) FIRE, BUT VULNERABLE TO COLD. HIS MELEE DAMAGE POTENTIAL IS NOTHING TO SNEEZE AT, EITHER. AT SOME POINT DURING HIS YEARS AS AN ANCIENT AND MIGHTY DRAGON, HE LEARNED HOW TO OPEN DOORS. 20:40:41 i don't even intend for these to be monsters the player would ever fight 20:40:43 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:46 SamB: dang. I better become a high level unique. I can open doors. 20:40:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:41:08 and certainly a lot of the combinations will be similar to other things 20:41:17 although 3 strong primary attacks is still fairly unique 20:41:22 well, besides speaking in all caps I guess 20:41:35 hmm ... 20:41:44 mumra_: do you grok what that voronoi algorithm is doing? 20:41:46 but, i also want to 'vet' the monster list a bit 20:41:58 shouldn't he be shown as XTAHUA 20:42:07 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:33 bh: basically yes, well i understand the result, i haven't looked closely at the method 20:42:40 mumra_: Are the monsters generally chosen from a similar threat tier to each other? 20:42:57 mumra_: Or can you get dragon-deathyak-rat chimeras? :P 20:43:03 DracoOmega: yes at the moment 20:43:09 mumra_: I think I'll just run his code. 20:43:18 FR: chimera infighting 20:43:22 DracoOmega: although i was going to make the secondary monsters sometimes be from a lower tier 20:43:59 The two-headed ogre argues with itself. 20:44:07 because pearldragon-hellbeast-hellephant turns out to be a little bit strong for some reason 20:44:24 Haha 20:44:39 DracoOmega: i'd quite like stuff like deathyak-bat 20:44:47 so it's a tough monster but has batty flying 20:44:49 Would it actually be batty? Or fast? 20:44:51 death yak/yaktaur 20:44:59 So it does account for this? Or is it just that it WILL account for this eventually? 20:45:02 (death yaktaur) 20:45:04 i haven't done the winged/batty cases yet 20:45:10 but i was planning this 20:45:17 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1482-ge23eb96: Repaint the box of beasts blue. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e23eb9629fc3 20:45:17 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1483-g2153db9: No randomly coloured darkgrey items. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2153db9e3d37 20:45:19 Could be fun, anyway 20:45:28 at the moment all it gets is the melee attacks from the secondary monsters 20:45:36 Tiles will be a nightmare (ie: probably just a base chimera tile is all we'll try to get, I expect) 20:45:41 yeah 20:45:49 i need to mention this to ontoclasm 20:45:54 that was totally on my todo list :P 20:46:01 I don't see any reasonable way to do a better job of it 20:46:10 Since, unlike Pan lord assemblages, they're supposed to look like something specific 20:46:11 1tell ontoclasm this 20:46:16 Rather than just 'different from each other' 20:46:41 i actually think it is possible, with a certain amount of vetting of the monster list 20:46:52 (i am loving the word 'vetting' in this context btw) 20:47:18 but conceptually it's not hard to stick a jackal head onto a yak body 20:47:21 mumra_: sorta like those books which 3 sets of pages, which are cut up images of things that you can mix and match 20:47:25 <|amethyst> ??xtahua 20:47:25 XTAHUA[1/1]: A POWERFUL UNIQUE DRAGON, USUALLY FOUND IN THE MIDGAME. BREATHES PAINFUL (3D38) FIRE, BUT VULNERABLE TO COLD. HIS MELEE DAMAGE POTENTIAL IS NOTHING TO SNEEZE AT, EITHER. AT SOME POINT DURING HIS YEARS AS AN ANCIENT AND MIGHTY DRAGON, HE LEARNED HOW TO OPEN DOORS. 20:47:27 exactly! 20:47:29 <|amethyst> you were saying? 20:47:33 SamB gets the idea 20:47:33 mumra_: Except they all have different poses and dimensions and the number of combinations would be huge 20:47:48 how does it usually work for adding new features? is there a central team who approves the new stuff? or can anyone just submit new code and have 20:47:57 DracoOmega: obviously you'd need special art for this mix-and-match thing 20:47:58 it get added 20:48:05 DracoOmega: just like those books 20:48:16 or the electronic equivalent 20:48:42 DracoOmega: if we kept the list of beasts small enough we can have images of heads that can be repositioned to position 1,2 or 3 20:48:44 johnstein: what kind of feature 20:48:52 mumra_: Perhaps 20:49:04 mumra_: And just make the body generic? 20:49:07 or, a mostly draconic body with just different heads 20:49:08 johnstein: is it a UI tweak or a new branch or species 20:49:13 hmm. I guess I was asking generally. just trying to get a feel for the design flow 20:49:21 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:49:22 no the body can be from the first animal's base tile 20:49:35 whether it's worth going to so much effort for 1 effect from 1 item is another matter 20:49:49 mumra_: do you read YAFGC? 20:49:50 kilobyte: yes that could work too 20:49:51 mumra_: Well, plenty of bodies use different scales for their head 20:49:58 but in this case, a new class or species or spell. I bet there's a pretty high standard for new features to ensure they fit the crawl philosophy 20:50:10 mumra_: So one set of chimera heads would not match all present chimera bodies, certainly 20:50:11 <|amethyst> there is 20:50:17 johnstein: my impression is that anyone can fix things, you want at least a couple of devs who also like the idea for additions 20:50:18 kilobyte: no, haven't seen that before 20:50:22 <|amethyst> You can discuss it here, but 20:50:24 johnstein: species is harder than backgrounds 20:50:31 <|amethyst> don't do so if you have sensitive feelings 20:50:31 also harder than spells 20:50:49 not too sure about backgrounds vs spells 20:51:09 DracoOmega: it doesn't matter if things don't match up precisely, these monsters were stitched together by a depraved wizard 20:51:13 it says so in the description 20:51:21 amethyst, I pretty much expect that. I also know of the 'these features will never be added' page too 20:51:42 -!- Aponym has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:51 mumra_: a webcomic with a chimera as one of recurring background characters. 20:52:09 nice 20:52:16 * SamB wonders if any of the features from that list ever are/will be added 20:52:21 a great read, too 20:52:22 on the gaming site I read, several of us have been brainstorming ideas to play around with. one was a farmer-ish class who starts out worshipping Fed. so we've been iterating a bit to try to balance it out to see if it's a fun background 20:53:15 <|amethyst> johnstein: you might check Game Design Discussion archives in tavern, and also the wiki 20:53:36 <|amethyst> johnstein: the idea has come up before 20:53:48 and of course there's that one section of the manual ... 20:53:49 I don't think I knew about the Game Design discussion archive. ty 20:53:52 <|amethyst> one big objection is that mushrooms are somewhat too powerful for D:1 20:53:58 johnstein: backgrounds that start with a god are generally being removed rather than added; it removes player choice and is hard to balance 20:54:45 yea. I don't expect a high chance of successfully balancing it out 20:55:07 but it's pretty interesting so far. and helping me get familiar with the codebase. 20:55:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:55:50 amethyst: I think I heard the idea in here actually. and I lost several dudes trying to find a Fed altar in the last tourney 20:56:19 ty for the info 20:56:44 * SamB wonders why johnstein keeps leaving out the | 20:56:57 Clearly he's already grabbed the superb_item :) 20:57:09 -!- |amethyst is now known as \amethyst 20:57:09 |oops 20:57:21 |doh 20:57:22 <\amethyst> !tell \amethyst test 20:57:23 \amethyst: OK, I'll let \amethyst know. 20:57:27 <\amethyst> !tell |amethyst test2 20:57:28 \amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:57:28 \amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 20:57:33 <\amethyst> !lg . 20:57:34 No games for \amethyst. 20:57:51 <\amethyst> !nick \amethyst neil 20:57:52 Mapping amethyst => neil 20:57:54 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:57:57 <\amethyst> still broken :) 20:57:58 I reported that AGES ago 20:58:09 -!- \amethyst is now known as |amethyst 20:58:11 well, not the !nick thing 20:58:16 Oh right, this reminds me. 20:58:20 <|amethyst> !tell \amethyst test3 20:58:21 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:58:22 |amethyst: OK, I'll let \amethyst know. 20:58:28 !lg * ktyp=draining 20:58:29 3712. lakren the Practitioner (L1 DDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, drained of all life by a kobold on D:1 on 2013-06-06 22:42:37, with 100 points after 36 turns and 0:00:13. 20:58:32 !lg * ktyp=draining x=ckaux 20:58:33 3712. [ckaux=short sword of draining] lakren the Practitioner (L1 DDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, drained of all life by a kobold on D:1 on 2013-06-06 22:42:37, with 100 points after 36 turns and 0:00:13. 20:58:39 wb |amethyst 20:58:56 ...is the (c)kaux part of the message something done Sequell-side or game-side? 20:59:21 i.e. getting Sequell to show it as "drained of all life by a kobold (+x,+y short sword of draining)" 20:59:50 <|amethyst> Grunt: it's written to the logfile by the game 20:59:55 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:00:04 <|amethyst> well, kaux is 21:00:08 <|amethyst> ckaux is postprocessed 21:00:09 Grunt: enable the relevant flags in your build 21:00:16 <|amethyst> !lg * ktyp=draining x=kaux 21:00:17 3712. [kaux=+1,+2 dwarven short sword of draining] lakren the Practitioner (L1 DDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, drained of all life by a kobold on D:1 on 2013-06-06 22:42:37, with 100 points after 36 turns and 0:00:13. 21:00:29 It's logging the kaux fine; I want Sequell to show the kaux :) 21:00:55 <|amethyst> !lg * ktyp=draining x=tmsg 21:00:56 3712. [tmsg=drained of all life by a kobold] lakren the Practitioner (L1 DDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, drained of all life by a kobold on D:1 on 2013-06-06 22:42:37, with 100 points after 36 turns and 0:00:13. 21:01:07 part of my make commandline is: 21:01:10 <|amethyst> I think that's probably what sequell's using 21:01:11 EXTERNAL_DEFINES="\ 21:01:11 -DDGL_MILESTONES -DDGL_WHEREIS -DDGL_EXTENDED_LOGFILES \ 21:01:11 -DDEBUG_TESTS \ 21:01:11 -UDEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS" \ 21:01:14 <|amethyst> but I'm not 100% certain 21:01:22 !lg * ktyp=mon x=tmsg 21:01:23 1361863. [tmsg=slain by a gnoll shaman] mamga the Chiller (L7 KoIE), slain by a gnoll shaman (a +0,+0 club) on D:4 (lemuel_castle_with_subvaults) on 2013-06-07 01:57:39, with 756 points after 6327 turns and 0:13:46. 21:01:25 I guess the DGL stuff is the relevant bit 21:01:31 <|amethyst> oh, hm 21:01:32 !lg * ktyp=draining x=vmsg 21:01:33 3712. [vmsg=drained of all life by a kobold] lakren the Practitioner (L1 DDHe), worshipper of Elyvilon, drained of all life by a kobold on D:1 on 2013-06-06 22:42:37, with 100 points after 36 turns and 0:00:13. 21:01:36 !lg * ktyp=mon x=vmsg 21:01:38 1361863. [vmsg=slain by a gnoll shaman (a +0,+0 club)] mamga the Chiller (L7 KoIE), slain by a gnoll shaman (a +0,+0 club) on D:4 (lemuel_castle_with_subvaults) on 2013-06-07 01:57:39, with 756 points after 6327 turns and 0:13:46. 21:01:39 <|amethyst> vmsg, that's it 21:01:41 Grunt: or you could look in the online logs 21:01:51 <|amethyst> dobrazupa.org/meta/ 21:02:05 |amethyst: what's there 21:02:14 <|amethyst> logfiles and milestones :) 21:02:17 <|amethyst> for cszo 21:02:22 ah 21:03:51 !lg * ktyp=beam x=vmsg 21:03:53 339218. [vmsg=blasted by Sigmund (magic dart)] doome the Chiller (L4 GhIE), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) on D:4 on 2013-06-07 01:59:22, with 198 points after 4108 turns and 0:12:22. 21:04:49 hmm, how do I get elinks to fold lines in text/plain :-( 21:04:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 21:05:34 also perhaps I shouldn't load the trunk one 21:05:58 Okay, it's a game-side change. 21:07:35 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1484-g674cb7f: Report kaux for semiverbose draining/burning deaths. 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=674cb7f75e54 21:11:20 -!- codile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:13:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 21:16:18 -!- BlinkFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:20:41 -!- krag has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:02 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:26 -!- Wraiths has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:29:46 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:28 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:32:22 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:32:55 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:36:14 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:18 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 21:39:03 !seen Wensley 21:39:04 I last saw Wensley at Wed Jun 5 01:40:11 2013 UTC (2d 58m 53s ago) saying '!lg * killer=catoblepas s=name' on ##crawl. 21:42:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:06 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:44:12 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:54:31 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:31 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:02:38 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 22:07:43 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:13:55 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-1485-g98ecd97: Shapes for the forest monsters. 10(77 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98ecd9741006 22:15:58 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:32 -!- YorkeSC has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:17:53 -!- dupo has quit [] 22:27:12 haha 22:27:18 so 22:27:24 i quivered my armour by accident 22:27:30 and then i wore it 22:27:33 and it's still in my quiver 22:27:49 what happens if you try to throw it 22:28:20 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-1486-g0edb3d0: Avoid failed book acq w/ Trog and magic skills 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0edb3d0cfcad 22:29:39 SamB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XiN0Lwvi7CA#t=17s 22:30:19 what the heck 22:30:50 * SamB wonders why he's being suddenly linked to a youtube video 22:31:26 it's relevant 22:31:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:52 you can't state a scenario so bizarre that i don't have an example already in mind 22:32:01 * Grunt feels like he was going to bother ontoclasm about something, but can't remember what. 22:32:14 is this to punish me for being too curious 22:32:47 Grunt: you wanted tiles for your roof 22:32:55 o_O 22:33:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:51 whoa 22:35:17 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:57 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:35:59 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/tile-changes-in-0-7 22:38:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:40:53 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:43:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:02 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:27 -!- rkd has quit [] 22:50:17 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:03 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:02 that grinder tile :) 22:53:43 maybe that shield from gobling tile could be used? or is it already 22:59:23 -!- sym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:04:58 i like that shadows used to be -even harder- to see 23:05:28 and kobolds were apparently smug-looking rabbits 23:06:12 with sonja being a ballet rabbit 23:06:43 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 23:12:39 those are pretty terrifying 23:13:27 i wonder how many tiles i've changed since i joined 23:14:54 that's certainly a big number 23:15:21 how many tiles are in the game anyway? 23:16:58 5170 *.png in rltiles/ :) 23:17:58 that's... a lot 23:20:07 |amethyst, would you have any suggestions on how to format random gods in DGL output? Ideally one could request a !lg summary of gods that grouped rnggods together rather than listing each separately. 23:21:29 We could provide the god name as rng;olerach (for some delimiter that won't confuse anything, maybe even just underscore), but that would make s=god queries have to do something complicated in the SQL 23:23:01 !lg x=killer x=ckiller 23:23:02 1009. [ckiller=an adder;killer=an adder] SamB the Firebug (L4 LOFE), succumbed to an adder's poison on D:4 on 2013-06-02 19:45:14, with 308 points after 3814 turns and 0:16:42. 23:23:03 We could also output god=rng:rgod=olerach, but I'm not sure if that would work for milestone nouns 23:23:16 !lg * x=killer x=ckiller 23:23:17 2357722. [ckiller=a gnoll;killer=a gnoll] nudhul the Chopper (L6 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, mangled by a gnoll (a +0,+0 halberd) on D:4 on 2013-06-07 04:22:27, with 411 points after 3778 turns and 0:20:12. 23:23:37 !lg * x=killer x=ckiller ckiller~=player_ghost 23:23:38 Broken query near '~=player_ghost' 23:23:45 !lg * x=killer x=ckiller ckiller=~player_ghost 23:23:46 57097. [ckiller=a player ghost;killer=Tarezax's ghost] Tarezax the Grasshopper (L3 DsWr), succumbed to Tarezax's ghost's poison on D:3 on 2013-06-07 04:20:39, with 161 points after 1822 turns and 0:03:46. 23:24:00 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24:42 qoala: hmm, milestone nouns? 23:24:43 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:19 !lm * beogh 23:25:21 89406. [2013-06-07 03:53:56] ShizuneHakamichi the Invulnerable (L18 HOPr) killed Saint Roka on turn 47203. (Orc:4) 23:25:35 !lm * milestone=beogh 23:25:36 No milestones for * (milestone=beogh). 23:25:59 !lm * noun=beogh 23:26:00 1956. [2013-06-07 03:42:30] cjo the Severer (L12 HOPr) became the Champion of Beogh on turn 18247. (Lair:4) 23:26:59 yeah, milestones apparently have a type (such as god.abandon) and a noun (for god milestones, the god name) 23:28:16 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:23 !seen mumra_ 23:28:23 I last saw mumra_ at Fri Jun 7 01:53:58 2013 UTC (2h 34m 25s ago) saying 'johnstein: backgrounds that start with a god are generally being removed rather than added; it removes player choice and is hard to balance' on ##crawl-dev. 23:28:37 do we have a subsystem maintainer for milestones/logs/Sequell ? 23:29:10 man this kitty is kneady 23:29:43 yeah, I wasn't sure who actually knows that stuff best 23:30:47 SamB: ba-bum-cha! 23:31:20 -!- TheKraken has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:22 I guess greensnark is sorta the maintainer for Sequell 23:33:23 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:43 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Quit: Talk is cheap because the supply exceeds the demand.] 23:36:27 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:55 SamB: greensnark is the maintainer for Sequell, I (and others) know a fair amount about it though 23:39:58 -!- korzok has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:40:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:37 elliptic: what do you think of qoala's question? 23:43:03 qoala: doing some simple processing Sequell-side is fine, we already do that with a lot of fields 23:43:50 elliptic: well, how do you think stuff should be represented? 23:44:13 qoala: something like randgod:olerach would be fine, for instance 23:44:55 elliptic:okay, we'll probably do something like that then. 23:45:12 elliptic: so would that work nicely with !lm * god.abandon s=noun 23:45:54 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:18 Queries s=god (or milestone s=noun) will probably want to instead group on a derived column that has the same value for all rnggods, but not if we've also specified god=~rng 23:46:18 SamB: it would if sequell is told how we want it to handle this 23:47:16 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:44 because in general, one would probably want to consider the rnggods as a lump, but (since they'll be semi-persistent), I might want to know how much each of the server's rnggods are being played 23:48:19 semi-persistent, you say 23:48:23 SamB: there's already a lot of fields that are special-cased in sequell in one way or another... for example, maps 23:48:49 elliptic: yeah, I just wasn't sure how well that would work with the noun field 23:49:40 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 23:50:08 Well, the proposal has us saving the generated gods to something like the bones files. Multiple games can then load the same god. Gods will eventually fade after some criteria, such as being won sufficiently many times. 23:51:53 qoala: is there a risk that we'd end up with crappy, unwinnable randgods? 23:52:17 SamB: well, one thing that might be good to do regardless that would make this sort of thing easier (and other things) is to add a cnoun field in sequell's database 23:52:27 The disappearance criteria hasn't really been set yet. It will need some way of culling crappy gods, yes 23:52:34 elliptic: I was wondering about that 23:53:31 I sort of like the idea of a 'god of the day' 23:53:35 but that would just be on the sequell side of things 23:54:02 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:05 I don't think it makes sense to add a new field just to store the randgod name for these milestones, which is really the alternative 23:54:22 the server could promote a god to permanent on the server and set its weight. So a cron job could generate a new god and promote it to high weight, before deleting at the end of the day. 23:54:57 elliptic: I think I'd prefer that, so if you didn't want to distinguish random gods from eachother you could use cgod/cnoun and otherwise god/noun 23:55:54 elliptic: yeah, cnoun sounds like a good feature. cgod would likewise help (even if it's only different for randgods) 23:56:03 SamB: well the point regardless is that this sort of thing is all on the sequell side 23:56:10 (to merely special-casing s the way qoala mentioned depending on how you were matching ...) 23:56:30 no need to worry about it when making the milestone, as long as the information is there 23:56:34 -!- GuraKKa1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:20 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 23:57:36 so the "rnggod:" prefix is all qoala needs to do, then? 23:59:05 sure 23:59:24 At this point, I'm also uncertain what program will be responsible for maintaining the rnggod files (particularly clearing those that expire), since we need to support (1) single process without DGL, (2) multi process without DGL, (3) multi process with DGL