00:00:16 It seems possible, given a few tweaks :) 00:00:23 * Grunt disappears in a puff of smoke! 00:00:33 Swamp could completely just be stagnant I bet 00:00:35 i would love ETC_FIRE walls in tiles 00:01:03 swamp water only changes when a creature walks or swims through it :Y 00:01:51 makes sense 00:02:06 There's nowhere near as much trouble in there as in shoals 00:02:24 like if Shoals could run as smoothly as Swamp that would be pretty great 00:03:01 oh hai 00:03:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:03:28 <|amethyst> SwissStopwatch: swamp was intentionally (re)designed to have limited LOS 00:03:39 Grunt: um, you're still right there ... 00:03:41 <|amethyst> SwissStopwatch: not explicitly for this problem, but it definitely helps :) 00:03:54 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:04 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1108-gaf454e1 (34) 00:05:35 That's kind of funny because even though it's definitely true to an extent I've definitely never thought of Swamp as "that limited LOS branch" 00:07:14 SwissStopwatch: me too. Dungeon has limited LOS, with all those twisty hallways 00:07:37 some layouts more than others 00:08:04 really there aren't that many places with super-open LoS though 00:08:09 -!- voker57_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:18 like I think Shoals is one of the few that will regularly have it 00:08:31 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:31 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 00:08:31 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:41 and Lair 00:09:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:16 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 00:12:23 can I add a new submodule on a branch without faffing up anything on master? 00:13:30 bh: yeah 00:13:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:33 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1108-gaf454e1 (34) 00:17:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:19:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:08 hm. I'm ambivalent about adding protobuf as a dep. Building it takes longer than building crawl 00:26:08 herp 00:26:26 is that protobuf or capnproto? 00:26:36 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:51 capnproto? never heard of that. I was building the proto compiler 00:27:00 Zannick: crawl needs protobufs, right? 00:27:11 capnproto is the new open source proto, by kenton after he left google 00:27:13 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:27:15 That way my calling in life can be copying one protobuf to another protobuf 00:27:34 you mean that way you can do the same thing on crawl as at google 00:28:22 exactly. 00:28:23 crawl does not NEED protobufs 00:29:34 -!- ahahahah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:29:47 sure. It also doesn't *need* orcs, or humans, or gods. I believe that our save file format is deficient. I had previously suggested json but acknowledge that this would lead to epic file size bloat 00:30:03 lol json 00:30:21 it sure is deficient. we don't have enough developers messing with it 00:31:37 crawl ships its own run-length encoder and all sorts of wacky vector packing code. These are solved problems 00:33:35 -!- Yll has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:34:30 as fun as it would be to, say, store levels in hilbert curve order and then roll some prediction by partial mapping code, these would be very bad ideas 00:34:53 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:44 Zannick: basically, I hate our save files 00:37:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:15 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:42:24 That's kind of funny because even though it's definitely true to an extent I've definitely never thought of Swamp as "that limited LOS branch" <- you weren't around before 0.11, were you? 00:45:08 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:23 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1108-gaf454e1 00:45:29 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:40 I played .10 00:48:56 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:49:03 So I did play swamp before and after the redesign 00:49:07 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:51 Ah, okay 00:50:00 Just wondering 00:50:13 Since it WAS pretty much the polar opposite before that 00:51:06 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/newwater.png 00:51:13 -!- Nikolaos has quit [] 00:51:15 Mostly I think of it as the branch where I need to worry about meph breath and being careful about hydras in water 00:51:20 very very vague mockup of how the waves could look 00:52:18 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:20 That might be too vague for me to really say much about 00:53:43 well, the idea was sort of... could this be coded 00:54:03 ah, you mean code-wise and not "how does this look" 00:54:11 Meph breath is way too ineffective against players, in my opinion. I mean ones at a decent xl 00:54:17 A lot weaker than people seem to think it is 00:54:32 yeah, i just drew some zigzaggy lines xD 00:54:34 (I discovered this when my first plague shambler draft failed to work very well - it had a passive ring of meph) 00:54:44 Well I only really worry about it because I don't want to spend the curing potions 00:54:48 And mostly this didn't do anything at all to a Crypt-level player 00:54:56 Well, meph against players lasts 1-2 turns 00:55:00 not because I think it'll kill me 00:55:03 Unlike monsters, where it lasts waay waay more 00:55:19 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:55:26 yeah even when I'm doing swamp without clarity/rPois I usually just . through it 00:55:32 i have a reflexive aversion to meph because of old early stalkers 00:55:36 ontoclasm: That looks kind of... quite odd to me. 00:55:43 Like railroad tracks underwater 00:55:44 sometimes you might need to not be confused on a specific turn of course 00:56:42 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U9DGwMdBeVw/UMb8hLtdffI/AAAAAAAAZzQ/fTwj7u5omC4/s1600/spirited_away_train_tracks.gif 00:57:00 Haha 00:57:04 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:14 I like that you had an example of that in mind apparently 00:57:18 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 00:57:19 or are just quick at google 00:57:47 He has multiple papers on the art of Turboogling. 00:58:04 :J 00:58:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:02 :4 01:00:25 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 01:02:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 01:03:56 -!- ahahahah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:05:29 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:06:02 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:16:25 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:21 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:43 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:00 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:21 oh man, I forgot I did scorpion teleport... man, _I_ thought it was a good idea :p 01:21:57 hmm, would anyone have interest in a tree frog enemy that leaps into melee from distance? 01:22:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:59 Well, there's already something like that implemented now 01:24:29 which monster? 01:25:33 anyone well-versed on the beam drawing mechanics, what you see drawn in e.g. spell targeting? 01:25:54 I have a weird problem that only shows up in web tiles, but not tiles with some code I'm working on 01:27:00 I added a new "ray" background tile and added an AF_ type for it so it gets shown when direction_chooser does a beam redraw 01:27:31 it works in tiles fine, but in web tiles the newly added background tile doesn't show 01:27:47 nrook: Well, blue devils have a swoop attack now 01:28:04 That moves them to the other side of you from possibly several spaces away and performs a melee attack 01:29:04 DracoOmega: ah, ok, that is similar 01:29:58 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:31:22 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: night] 01:32:55 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:00 sounds like pokemon :> 01:35:17 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:37:11 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 01:42:05 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:43:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:28 -!- Melum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:45 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:30 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:07 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:08 -!- WesterAlt is now known as Wester 01:54:59 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:21 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:57:29 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:17 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:04:44 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:08:53 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:37 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:10:02 -!- tswett has quit [Changing host] 02:11:37 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:22 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:14:40 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:18:27 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:16 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: I, Garland, will knock you all down!] 02:26:03 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:06 -!- Twinge has quit [] 02:30:12 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:29 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:35:44 !tell bh while protobufs look potentially useful for webtiles, I can't really think of a single reason to use them for saves. Most of the logic is required for upgrades (no help from protobufs), they don't handle _value_ enums (which could be useful), reader/writer code would be more complex, and ordering of fields is not a real burden. 02:35:45 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 02:36:23 !tell bh while protobufs look potentially useful for webtiles, I can't really think of a single reason to use them for saves. 02:36:24 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:37:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:37:10 !tell bh Most of the logic is required for upgrades (no help from protobufs), they don't handle _value_ enums (which could be useful), reader/writer code would be more complex, and ordering of fields is not a real burden. 02:37:11 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:39:32 !tell bh only thing they would help with are optional fields, at the cost of nearly doubling saves 02:39:33 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 02:44:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47:19 -!- _D_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:55:51 -!- ruwin has quit [] 03:02:13 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:04:39 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:18 kilobyte: no good for webtiles -- no js implementation 03:08:27 typical half-assed google basically 03:10:22 well, not that half-assed, it just doesn't fit our use cases well 03:12:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:12:06 there's just one pro: makes adding new fields easier 03:12:29 -!- evilmike has quit [] 03:12:39 at the cost of complicating code elsewhere 03:14:53 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:22 well i meant the lack of a js implementation was half-assed 03:16:53 what's the point of a format intended for communication that isn't consumable by web clients 03:18:15 i had a similar issue trying to integrate with google's ad servers which seem to have not even heard of the concept of javascript 03:20:23 gammafunk: with your beam problem, you might need to make changes in cell_renderer.js for webtiles 03:20:31 -!- korzok has quit [Client Quit] 03:20:49 interesting mumra, thanks 03:21:09 gammafunk: how did you actually implement it for tiles? certain tiles changes need mirroring on the webtiles side 03:21:12 like enum.js 03:21:24 I followed the ray background tile 03:21:28 as an example 03:21:36 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:38 (i had to do this for the recent spiderwebs changes, and for the cloud overlays edlothiol had to do some stuff because it was slightly more complicated) 03:21:42 added a background flag for it 03:21:53 yeah i think the flag needs supporting in enum.js 03:21:57 ic 03:21:57 and in cell_renderer.js 03:22:30 was going crazy looking for some #ifdef related to TILES_LOCAL or something 03:22:39 hehe 03:22:53 unfortunately there's a certain amount of code duplication in javascript 03:23:27 i think enum.js could *probably* be autogenerated but it's not something that needs to change all *that* often 03:23:44 but the cell_renderer logic would be much harder to unify 03:24:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:28:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:16 !tell grunt i played through the most recent forest again, this time with a mibe http://madreisz.com/grunt_forest_mibe.ttyrec.tar.gz is the recording if you are interested 03:30:17 lainiw: OK, I'll let grunt know. 03:30:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1109-gfcbe965: Don't let is_valid_species() accept placeholders. 10(31 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcbe9658595c 03:32:13 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1110-g9cf96c4: Fix advanced zombies producing skeletons instead. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9cf96c430c4c 03:34:24 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:36:31 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:08 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:43:19 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:47:14 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:26 -!- fungee has quit [] 03:51:17 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:54:05 -!- h4rt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:32 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 03:56:26 -!- ketsa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 20.1/20130518142809]] 03:58:45 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:59:09 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:29 !tell grunt I think I made the necessary mods to enum.js and cell_renderer.js (based on example of RAY), but my new tile still doesn't show; will keep fooling with it 04:02:30 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 04:03:18 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:44 gammafunk: if you upload the changes somewhere, I can probably tell you the problem 04:08:04 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:08:04 -!- floatboth_ is now known as floatboth 04:09:23 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:23 edlothiol: Here's a diff of my web tiles changes with trunk: http://pastebin.com/45NatawT 04:14:32 I have the tiles changes already working properly; I add a new bg tile and flag and a new cursor 04:17:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:28 !tell edlothiol Here's a diff of my web tiles changes with trunk: http://pastebin.com/45NatawT 04:20:29 gammafunk: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 04:21:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:41 !tell tenofswords ok finally got round to some backlog. to be honest i think the complaints are unfounded. in the first few D levels there are *only* corridory layouts. I've removed some very open layouts from a number of branches. and as evilmike points out, layout_loops is very common with a high weight, and my new layout_gridlike is weight 50 with plenty of corridors. 04:21:42 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 04:21:52 !tell tenofswords ok finally got round to some backlog. to be honest i think the complaints are unfounded. in the first few D levels there are *only* corridory layouts. 04:21:53 mumra: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 04:22:07 !tell tenofswords ...I've removed some very open layouts from a number of branches. and as evilmike points out, layout_loops is very common with a high weight, and my new layout_gridlike is weight 50 with plenty of corridors. 04:22:08 mumra: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 04:24:30 -!- AndroUser2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:25:05 !tell tenofswords Although if people have specific complaints I'd recommend you direct them to me or at least quote them exactly, hearing something vague and second hand isn't useful for me to go on 04:25:06 mumra: OK, I'll let tenofswords know. 04:25:40 Hey mumra, can you look at my diff for num.'s and cell_renderer.js? 04:26:00 It's http://pastebin.com/45NatawT 04:26:49 would help if I actually knew javascript, but it seems correct going by example 04:27:20 gammafunk: that actually looks ok, the cursor changes will need some additional code but I don't see any problem with the other stuff 04:27:21 edlothiol: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:27:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:28:40 edlothiol: thanks, well I must be doing something a little off. The new tile is in the generated png, and the defs are in the tile .js files that are auto generated as well 04:29:26 are there javascript errors? 04:31:32 well some errors about unknown property 'box-sizing' 04:31:50 and some connection interrupted socket hearers for client.js 04:31:56 which browser? 04:32:10 nothing specific to my addition 04:32:29 you can of course step through the js with whatever debug tooling your browser has and see what's going on 04:32:43 i.e. step through the cell_renderer code and see if the bits are correctly getting through to the bg variable 04:32:43 this is firefox on linux 04:32:51 install firebug if you don't have it 04:32:55 yeah, sigh, it might come to that I guess 04:32:56 it has a great debugger 04:33:06 it's usually my first step 04:33:11 not a last resort 04:33:31 debugging tells you lots of things that you can't see just by staring at code 04:33:33 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:33:57 yeah, I use gdb of course, but that's no help with javascript 04:34:02 no so use firebug 04:34:11 I'll check some things out and give the js debugger a try 04:34:13 honestly it's an awesome debugger 04:34:23 you can hover over variables and it tells you their value 04:34:35 who wouldn't want that? 04:35:46 the first things i want to know looking at your code are: 04:35:49 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:49 1) is execution reaching if (bg.LANDING) 04:35:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:56 2) what is the value of bg.LANDING 04:36:18 now those are both things you can find out in 10 seconds by setting a breakpoint using firebug 04:37:03 ok, I'll quit gripping about having to think about javascript and do that 04:37:22 hehe 04:38:01 once you get more used to javascript it's actually awesome mainly because how good the browser tooling / debuggers are 04:38:24 and also because of CoffeeScript 04:38:33 as long as I'm not forced to like perl, I'll cope 04:38:38 unfortunately the webtiles isn't written in CoffeeScript :( 04:38:41 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:38:51 the webtiles server is in python 04:39:07 the only perl stuff is some precompilation / code generation tasks 04:39:13 yes, haven't need ed to hack on it, but I'm glad of that 04:40:38 i just wish i could run webtiles on windows, would probably be hacking it a lot more if i could easily test locally 04:40:42 mumra: using coffeescript would mean depending on node.js for compilation, wouldn't it... 04:40:53 edlothiol: no 04:41:06 node.js can help in toolchains but it's not necessary 04:41:13 yeah, I tried to compile web tiles on my os x laptop, but compilation failed 04:41:29 mumra: doesn't the coffeescript compiler run on node.js? 04:41:37 it's just javascript 04:41:43 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:41:43 it supports node imports/exports 04:41:50 but it doesn't need them 04:42:01 but you need SOMETHING as a Javascript VM 04:42:06 and node is quite an easy way to do that 04:42:44 you probably need node.js *if you want to compile the coffeescript compiler itself* 04:43:46 and actually i ended up using node.js locally when i wanted to customise the coffeescript build scripts to do some packaging of multiple .coffee sources into a single minified javascript 04:47:44 edlothiol: in fact, we wouldn't need to precompile the .coffee files at all. can just send coffeescript over the wire, the client browser can use coffeescript.js to interpret the script ;) 04:48:30 ok, but that doesn't really seem like a good idea, does it 04:48:40 no not really 04:50:45 anyway, using node.js on the server wouldn't be a bad idea -- it'd allow the client/server codebase to be unified 04:52:37 (i realise this whole thing is unneccesary when we have a working system already...) 04:53:22 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:03:31 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:03:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:39 yeah, firebug shows it's reaching the check in cell_renderers.js, but bg.LANDING and bg.LANDING_ALT are never true 05:06:15 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 05:09:03 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 05:09:42 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12:12 !tell gammafunk it might be a conflict with the exclusive_flags thing that immediately follows since that uses 0x00080000 fir CURSOR2 05:12:13 mumra: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 05:14:22 !tell gammafunk also on a second look i'm not why you've added exports.CURSOR_LANDING since you don't use it anywhere or did you just not get around to that yet? 05:14:23 mumra: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 05:16:13 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:13 oh, right, I just assumed his flag value was ok because it worked in tiles, but that obviously overlaps (so it worked in tiles mostly by accident) 05:17:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17:41 yeah looks like it 05:20:12 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:52 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:20 not quite sure how to handle this sort of collision without reshuffling everything in that enum 05:21:35 i can see this becoming a bigger problem in the long run 05:22:21 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:28:20 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:31:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:31:43 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:09 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:37 -!- Sealero has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:33:34 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:13 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:41:30 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:52 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:49:51 -!- coffeemonster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:51:30 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:52:20 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52:20 -!- WesterAlt is now known as Wester 05:53:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02:56 is there a reason eyes drop chunks of meat? That's pretty contrary to chunks' description. 06:03:17 I mean, chunkable corpses 06:06:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:49 I'd remove their corpses, okay? 06:09:31 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:43 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 06:11:45 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:13:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:14:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:16:07 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:16:08 -!- WesterAlt is now known as Wester 06:16:49 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:20:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:24:18 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:31 it it a feature that I'm absolutely helpless while eating? 06:24:48 but not while drinking blood from a corpse? 06:25:04 -!- h4rt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:26:35 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:59 -!- Jevouse has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:10 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:46 kilobyte: aw but i love eyeball chunks 06:39:28 maybe they're very muscley eyeballs 06:40:14 myrmidette: i think it's mainly an implementation difficulty of having partially-eaten chunks in your inventory 06:40:21 it's definitely been discussed before 06:40:52 I would rather discard the uneaten part 06:41:07 than die while eating a meat ration because a centaur killed me in two turns 06:41:34 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:41:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:47:26 hmm, it does seem reasonable that you could get nutrition for the eaten part and chuck the rest 06:47:34 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:31 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:14 I'd hate losing food because a green rat wanders by 06:51:52 give a y/n option to stop eating 06:52:35 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 06:53:03 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130528030942]] 06:53:11 myrmidette: of course, fruits and other quick-to-eat foods do exist for a reason, don't eat a whole ration if you're not somewhere safe 06:53:38 it does seem a bit weird that you'd just sit there munching away on your dinner for ages whilst getting pulverised though 06:53:55 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:55:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:57:44 eat your dinner and get stabbed by one of those new shadows! 06:59:56 a monster that infests a piece of permafood you're carrying but you don't know which one 07:00:06 at some point when you eat it the monster springs into action 07:00:13 1learn add terrible_ideas 07:00:48 FR: food worm 07:01:01 why stop at food 07:01:19 potions, books, and scrolls 07:01:50 potions are quite transparent, you don't ingest books and scrolls 07:01:58 book worm, though... 07:02:26 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:02:56 blood worm in your potion of blood 07:03:08 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:03:17 tequila worm 07:03:29 potion of alcohol 07:04:20 makes you shout uncontrollably and lies about your stats 07:04:48 i did have a not-so-terrible idea for a "gremlin" monster that tampers with wands and other devices you're carrying 07:04:58 either drains charges or rigs them to explode in your face when you next use them 07:05:08 only after wands and rods are fixed 07:05:19 what needs fixing? 07:06:02 well, rods were not appearing until quite recently 07:06:05 -!- Lasse- has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:06:14 and their rate of occurrence is rather low 07:06:39 that's nothing wrong with wands or rods themselves though is it? 07:06:45 i wouldn't call a low spawn rate "broken" 07:06:48 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:56 not broken per se, just underpowered 07:07:34 so if you put more annoyances that tamper with your evocables nobody will want to use them even further 07:08:01 the main reason i suggest this is because evokable items have been recently overhauled 07:08:11 and increasing spawn rates a little was actually something i suggested 07:08:20 but you haven't said what is wrong with wands? 07:09:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09:31 (actually spawn rates for evokable items are probably fine, rods are certainly very rare, but then they're very powerful items) 07:10:18 (i also posted a proposal on the wiki in the last couple of days for giving artificers a weak starting rod) 07:10:28 well, not wands itself but really artificer i guess...could start with more identified 07:10:43 and they used to start with rod of magic dart or something didn't they? 07:10:43 i don't think wand identification is a big problem 07:10:49 yes, see my wiki proposal 07:11:04 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:artificer 07:11:28 replace the wand of random effects that can kill you when you need it to save you i reckon 07:12:03 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:33 random effects is the best wand 07:12:48 i mean in the starting kit, not in general 07:13:20 or how about improving its behaviour so you can sort of predict what it's gonna shoot next 07:13:47 that makes it much less fun 07:14:16 those changes to artificer sound fun 07:14:45 the thing is if you had a rod to blast stuff fairly reliably, random effects would be more of a desperation measure, which can be exciting 07:14:50 true 07:15:11 but it's more something you should use *first* if you face a tough group 07:15:28 when they're not standing next to you, and you still have time to run away if you accidentally haste something nasty 07:15:44 rod of striking doesn't cut it against groups 07:16:04 if you gave artificer enough different toys maybe felids could be artificers too 07:16:06 only thing is to pray that the random wand can deliver that fireball or bolt 07:16:52 yeah, use a couple of blasts of that first to weaken them, finish them off with your other tools and melee 07:16:59 i think it'd be more fun if you could predict the wand's effect as your evocations skill goes up 07:17:01 or run away if it's going wrong 07:17:08 so you still take the chance 07:17:15 once your evocations skill goes up you have more reliable wands anyway 07:17:18 but now you actually know what you're getting into 07:17:25 how so? you have to find them 07:17:39 yes, by the time your evocations skill is significantly improved, you will have found wands 07:17:42 they're not exactly rare 07:17:51 the question is 07:17:55 whether they're the wands you need 07:18:05 or just wands of ping 07:18:08 and this is the fun thing about crawl, using the tools you find effectively 07:18:43 resourcefulness has its limits when you only find crappy tools 07:19:01 we don't want to give starting kit items that are useful right through the game 07:19:05 wonder if nemelex could stand wand alteration 07:19:12 of course not 07:19:19 nemelex can stand most kinds of nerfs 07:19:40 no like, instead of god of decks, god of evocables 07:19:47 and let him alter wand types 07:19:56 or evocable types 07:20:04 i certainly don't think nemelex needs a buff 07:20:24 i don't know why you think there's any problem with wands 07:20:49 they're useful to all characters 07:21:02 (which is why i think the artificer shouldn't start with 3 of them) 07:21:28 or link it to artificer specifically that he can tinker with them 07:21:39 so as to differentiate the background 07:21:42 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:44 giving backgrounds special abilities is a no-no 07:22:15 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:38 there's a proposal somewhere about making traps out of wands which could be a god skill 07:23:10 hmm, what if the starting rod cast a random low level cj instead of just magic dart 07:23:13 but nemelex's theme is entirely based around decks, i don't think you can gain any ground there, but a nemelex worshipper will have high evo skill and therefore wands are already extremely useful to them, moreso than other races.... 07:23:23 it wouldn't necessarily be a buff to nemelex just to retweak his concept from just god of cards to god of evocables 07:23:24 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:31 "random" being from some predefined list 07:23:59 well the new evocables do have the random theme 07:24:46 there's not much difference between knowing what card you're gonna pull next and knowing the next effect of the evocable 07:25:54 lainiw: this was something i was thinking, magic dart is a bit boring; but a slightly better spell with a low number of rod charges, or giving the rod a higher failure chance, could be interesting 07:26:15 random list sounds good 07:26:21 lainiw: Sting, throw frost,throw flame, magic dart, force lance, sandblast, shock? 07:26:25 maybe then i'd retract random effects as being the starting wand 07:27:07 Jevouse: the thing about cards is it can be disastrous to get the wrong card, so there is a very strong reason to want to know what's coming next 07:27:22 Jevouse: but with the wand it's really not disastrous if you manage it right 07:27:25 yeah, a list like that encompases all the different elemental damage/whatever 07:27:30 +that 07:27:44 it's not disastrous to invis/haste/berserk your enemy? 07:27:47 rod of randomness 07:27:56 Jevouse: not disastrous if you handle it right, no 07:28:04 i.e. don't use it when you're stood right next to something 07:28:13 well, if you haste or berserk him 07:28:19 and u have no teleport 07:28:25 and you are not spriggan or centaur 07:28:31 you're dead i would think 07:28:43 even if you are right on edge of LoS 07:28:54 that's not true 07:28:56 at all 07:29:09 since you can keep firing that wand 07:29:29 and the chances of getting haste/berserk/heal the 2nd or 3rd time are extremely low 07:29:40 yes, but then you're just rolling the dice again and again 07:29:42 anyway wands don't berserk things 07:29:44 it's what, 30% every time 07:29:52 no it's much lower 07:29:52 or 25% 07:29:59 ??random effects 07:29:59 wand of random effects[1/2]: An unreliable wand which acts like a random wand. You might cook Sigmund, or haste him. Doesn't include heal wounds. Does include draining -- the good gods won't like it if that happens. 07:30:06 ??random effects[2] 07:30:06 wand of random effects[2/2]: !lg SGrunt 547 -tv 07:30:13 hmm 07:30:18 wiki said something like that 07:30:19 maybe i should check on this before making wild assertions 07:30:21 22.8% or something 07:30:35 u can get it twice no sweat 07:30:36 you mean badwiki? 07:30:38 ??badwiki 07:30:38 badwiki[1/27]: An old wiki (with lots of out of date and incorrect info; enter at your own risk): http://chaosforge.org/crawl/ There is an interesting essay about the relevance of the Chaosforge wiki located here: http://eronarn.info/misc/wiki.html 07:30:40 it's updated 07:31:27 new version reference ftw 07:32:02 somebody actually did a lot of work on it 07:34:14 that means nothing 07:34:26 as far as I can see from the code there's an equal chance for all wand effects 07:34:31 although i could be missing something 07:34:43 (healing is special cased to not happen 07:34:44 ) 07:35:16 so how many bad effects to good effects are there in that case 07:35:18 which implies a 1/18 chance of hasting 07:35:27 polymorph is potentially bad 07:35:32 polymorph/invis/haste 07:35:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 07:36:05 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:24 1/6 or so 07:36:39 not impossibl 07:36:39 e 07:36:59 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:05 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:27 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:37:53 if things are desperate you can always use it on yourself 07:38:11 when was healing taken out? 07:38:55 or is it just heal other 07:39:20 it doesn't care about the target 07:39:33 so healing was taken out recently? 07:40:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:41:02 %git c671ecd65468ad4c3a5d8901d86cc33eb49cd805 07:41:17 03elliptic * 0.12-a0-1334-gc671ecd: Give wands of random effects disintegration instead of heal wounds (elliott). 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 9+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c671ecd65468 07:41:40 hi 07:41:43 oh 07:41:53 so you'd need to be even more desperate to use it on yourself now 07:43:04 1/9 for guaranteed good effect 07:44:06 |amethyst: could you colour commits requested with %git a different way than new ones? 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1111-gb524b12: Don't warn about dummy monster corpses. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b524b121d48b 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1112-ge539ce2: Makes ghost moths of suppression zombifiable. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e539ce2d168d 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1113-gc42bccf: Allow spectral plague shamblers, like other ghoulies. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c42bccfc4b20 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1114-g2038a66: M_NO_GEN_DERIVED to suppress generation of certain boring zombies. 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 9+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2038a66d2af5 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1115-g3294f18: Decorpsify eyes and jellyfish. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3294f18ea4ed 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1116-gcfd05e3: Let spectral shapeshifter simulacra do their thing. 10(15 minutes ago, 3 files, 28+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cfd05e3b2732 07:45:27 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-1117-g8948773: Pinky, are undead laboratory rats what I'm pondering? 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8948773a55e0 07:45:31 bring back fulsome distillation and evaporate as evocable? 07:46:22 kilobyte: +1 to the colourisation 07:47:24 Jevouse: invis/haste/tele are all good effects and even poly could actually be beneficial now if you're that desperate 07:47:29 midtier evocable dealing with clouds requiring corpses/chunks as resource 07:47:35 of course this is only a "I'm going to die, I might as well try this" card 07:47:44 heh 07:48:20 tele is sketchy though...i support the idea that tele will have a min dis 07:49:22 or more strongly weighted against small distances 07:50:00 well that helps on mostly-cleared levels but is just as likely to drop you into worse danger on uncleared floors 07:50:05 it already is weighted against small distances 07:50:12 because there are more far distances than small distances 07:50:55 bring back fulsome distillation and evaporate as evocable? 07:51:01 ^ bh was actually working on a wand like this 07:51:19 wouldn't make it a wand though 07:51:28 corpses/chunk is already a limited resource 07:52:20 well it was a wand of random clouds 07:52:37 so it dispenses with the "fulsome distillation" part 07:53:07 we had no new wands since two ages and three forevers 07:53:14 but then nobody would use potions of decay/degen/poison/strong poison etc. 07:54:04 i would think it would fit the theme of artificer to turn potentially harmful potions to his own ends 07:54:26 like, making homunculi? 07:55:23 seems like more of an alchemist thing 07:55:24 !tell due THIS IS A STICKUP! Gimme your design for homunculi, or I'll mutter in your general direction! 07:55:25 kilobyte: OK, I'll let due know. 07:55:49 artificer would use something like a "potion launcher" evokable 07:55:57 well, that could work as well 07:56:11 launch potion, make cloud 07:56:14 elliott: speaking about designs... you know, traps 07:56:15 third newar item: cloud machine that uses potions for a evaporate like effect 07:56:24 oh everyone else had the idea first 07:56:48 elliott: coding changes is not a big problem (especially removals), but thinking is hard, so I'd offshore this part :p 07:56:50 this is veering a little close to "throwing potions" which is a won't do of course 07:58:03 cloud machine launcher 07:58:37 kilobyte: yeah, sorry about the delays -- I started working on crawl code again a few days ago (zin recite), when I am done with that (only a few days, hopefully) I will finish the traps patch (which was mostly designed by elliptic, really) 07:58:39 You throw a potion at the orc. It breaks, dirtying the already dirty orc. The orc peers at you quizzically, then hits you with an axe. You die... 07:58:51 kilobyte: the homunculi proposal is/was fairly complete on the wiki (needs some updating i think) 08:00:25 mumra, i like the idea of not having to wield decks to draw them, is it interesting to have to wield rods to evoke their spells? 08:00:30 ^still 08:00:40 u can beat people over the head with rods 08:00:52 well it makes more sense that you have to point a rod to use it 08:01:21 also since rods give you an additional menu, the keypress savings are more significant 08:01:39 the only thing with decks is if you want to keep drawing from the same deck it IS convenient to wield it 08:02:02 MP-wise especially 08:02:33 kilobyte: well i was proposing to remove/replace nemelex's first ability 08:02:41 and allow all chars to draw from the inventory 08:05:04 saving a half turn on each wield/unwield is really good 08:05:15 have you read my proposal? 08:05:40 i did suggest the 1* ability could be drawing a card quicker 08:06:19 and perhaps make drawing cards slower when it's from the inventory normally 08:06:22 but then, i don't think it's bad because if you're not nemelexite you won't know the top card after one draw unless you want to recite in battle 08:07:01 yes 08:07:16 although, some decks aren't so worrying to draw blind 08:08:11 -!- mrdali has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:08:17 but i'm imagining e.g. an artificer of ash who found a good rod and wants to keep it cursed, with some id'd decks to use as rare consumables alongside other evokables 08:08:41 and since we allow so many other things when the hands are cursed it seems weird to disallow decks 08:08:57 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 08:09:53 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:10:00 destruction especially 08:10:06 yep 08:11:08 are there any two handed rods? 08:11:27 no they're all the same 08:11:35 but you might have a shield cursed on the other hand 08:11:49 this doesn't stop the player using other evokable items or even changing their clothes however 08:11:55 FR: rod of spanking 08:11:56 i know, i was just thinking about having heavy two handed rods 08:12:02 kilobyte: <3 08:12:09 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:43 boomstick and thwapstick 08:12:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:13:58 i don't see what is gained by making rod melee more complicated 08:15:06 alright you primitive screwheads, listen up: this is my boomstick, and it's rotting on a branch unfinished 08:15:08 it allows for more scaling 08:15:28 if you're really investing in M&F then you probably want a proper weapon to swap to anyway 08:15:29 with revenants and lost souls, we need more Doom weapons more and more :p 08:15:38 haha 08:15:42 double-barrelled rod 08:15:50 <3 08:16:37 and of course the Big Fucking Rod 08:17:16 lets you invest into evocations primarily and have a decent melee weapon without having to train M&F by having an effect trigger on hit 08:18:07 of course the damage is not comparable to investing in M&F but you get decent ranged and melee damage 08:18:39 so it would be viable to focus evo then branch later and then the starting evo skill of artificer wouldn't be so naff. 08:19:26 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:47 umm 08:20:17 someone who understands melee better than me can probably enlighten us further but i don't think you want to use a two-hander mace without investing in M&F 08:20:57 umm 08:20:58 well 08:21:08 i should say, without having to focus M&F 08:21:50 so you get decent damage if you want to focus evocation to get more mileage out of your various other evocables 08:22:13 -!- Krag has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:23:21 like, say, if you were an artificer, you wouldn't need to act like a fighter for the first few levels 08:24:10 err 08:24:12 train like a fighter 08:25:46 so the rod of striking would actually let you cast magic dart on hit as an additional effect, for example... 08:26:05 and the damage would scale based on your evo 08:26:45 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:26:52 ie, extra damage as long as the rod is charged? 08:28:24 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:46 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:17 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:40:21 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:47:09 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:13 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:46 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:54:14 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:58:53 !tell ontoclasm noooo! watery stairs are gone? 08:58:59 mumra: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 09:00:06 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:01:30 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:52 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:08 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:28 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:45 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:09:31 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:10:53 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:02 Kilobyte: yes 09:16:03 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:16:23 wouldn't watery stairs lead to flooding on other levels? 09:17:53 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:11 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:41 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:35 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 09:25:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 09:25:41 <|amethyst> %gi 09:25:43 <|amethyst> %git 09:25:55 07kilobyte * 0.13-a0-1117-g8948773: Pinky, are undead laboratory rats what I'm pondering? 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8948773a55e0 09:26:32 <|amethyst> kilobyte: now the author brown for queries and green for announcements 09:26:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte: think I should change the URL too? 09:29:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:30 does anyone know if the rod of striking used to have an AoE? 09:30:42 there's a check in there to stop monsters using it at close range, just like fireball 09:31:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:08 mumra: you gonna put it back in and stick the hit effect on? 09:32:29 no i mean, it stopped them *firing* it at close range 09:32:40 -!- thebananafish has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:24 i'm not convinced about the hit effect, certainly needs more discussion about how that would work 09:33:29 rods are already very powerful 09:33:32 i would think it was to encourage them to go to melee? 09:33:41 well, who uses rods in melee? 09:33:56 I was directed here, because I was inquiring about source for a dungeon crawl server? 09:34:12 <|amethyst> thebananafish: to play with friends? for a public server? an official one? 09:34:16 so many people starting up servers these days... 09:34:35 <|amethyst> mumra: it may have been just to keep them from spamming it in melee when their melee attack would do more damage 09:34:36 |amethyst: a public one mostly for friends 09:34:51 we are a small community 09:35:02 and have a spare box we would like to run one on 09:35:10 <|amethyst> thebananafish: console, wetiles, or both? 09:35:12 <|amethyst> web 09:35:12 |amethyst: hmm, perhaps, but all the other rods with a distance check have a reason for it (fireball, poisonous cloud, etc.) 09:35:18 both preferably 09:35:47 <|amethyst> thebananafish: webtiles is easy; both is somewhat difficult 09:36:05 -!- tureba_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:36:11 webtiles would be fine for start, I doubt most of my friends would use console anyway 09:36:13 <|amethyst> thebananafish: I have the beginnings of a guide at http://dobrazupa.org/setting-up-dgamelaunch-and-webtiles 09:36:21 excellent thank you very much 09:36:27 <|amethyst> thebananafish: for webtiles it's much simpler; just read webserver/README 09:36:50 |amethyst: well i'll leave it how it is anyway since this is relevant about 0.001% of the time, but i guess if it's for melee purposes there might be a better way... 09:37:28 sorry where was webserver/README 09:37:32 is that in the main git? 09:37:53 <|amethyst> thebananafish: yes 09:38:05 <|amethyst> crawl-ref/source/webserver/README 09:38:10 <|amethyst> !source webserver/README 09:38:11 Couldn't understand /README 09:38:19 <|amethyst> aww 09:38:38 <|amethyst> mumra: hmm... looks like that was added by kilobyte and/or blue_anna 09:38:43 <|amethyst> %git 8d12bfa 09:38:43 07kilobyte * 0.8.0-a0-1346-g8d12bfa: Merge blue_anna's Dwarf Hall. MANY ISSUES ARE STILL UNFIXED. 10(2 years, 8 months ago, 20 files, 2765+ 61-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8d12bfac5f20 09:39:01 |amethyst: yeah i traced it back already - it arrived along with monsters being able to use rods 09:39:12 What are we looking at? 09:39:24 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:38 Im grabbing the git now 09:39:46 and the first link you sent me would be for console + web ? 09:39:46 Grunt: monsters won't use a rod of striking if the foe distance is < 2 09:39:51 o_O 09:39:58 That sounds pretty obscure. 09:40:01 the same logic as for fireballs 09:40:33 <|amethyst> mumra: the fireball case doesn't necessarily make sense either, if the monster has rF+++ or rHellfire 09:40:44 |amethyst: also good point 09:40:48 "MANY ISSUES ARE STILL UNFIXED" :P 09:41:02 <|amethyst> thebananafish: yeah... you do need a Linux or other Unix server 09:41:16 of course, just wanted to clarify 09:41:27 thank you buy the way, this is a good start 09:41:31 *by 09:42:17 |amethyst: also, comparable checks should be in place for normal monster spellcasting and probably wands to stop them hitting themselves with stuff ... 09:42:21 -!- thebananafish has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:42:44 <|amethyst> mumra: tracers don't do that already? 09:43:00 i'm sure i've heard of monsters killing themselves with AoE spells 09:43:13 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:20 it would be nice to somehow unify a whole load of spellcasting/targetting code to handle these kind of things without special casing 09:43:47 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:49 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:44:22 who was the guy who got killed by his allied centaur draining him 09:45:30 xuaxua, yes 09:45:36 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:49 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:12 mumra gazes into the beam code. mumra looks rather confused. 09:47:26 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:47:31 when u stare into the beam, the beam stares back into you 09:48:57 just don't cross the beams 09:50:02 -!- sbanwart has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:21 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:44 |amethyst: did you read the comment i posted on the issue? 09:50:45 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:44 <|amethyst> Jevouse: the charmed wand of draining one? 09:51:49 <|amethyst> Jevouse: what's your username on mantis? 09:52:04 |amethyst: it's jevouse 09:52:18 |amethyst: no, the PRes one 09:52:46 <|amethyst> hrm 09:53:10 -!- hart_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:54:33 -!- hart_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:12 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1115-g2b5add3: Minor adjustments to a couple of forest monsters. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b5add3121b9 09:56:12 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1155-gc359422: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(3 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3594225c2f3 09:57:05 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:57:08 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 09:58:23 <|amethyst> Jevouse: Yeah, I think my comment may have been wrong... I thought there was something that explicitly checked your rP with and without known equipment, but apparently it only does the usual poison checks? 09:58:41 |amethyst: certainly seems that way. 09:59:28 |amethyst: else it doesn't cover all possible iterations 10:01:07 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:01:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:01:56 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:44 does anyone know an easy command line way to search git logs for when a particular function was removed? (assuming the function name isn't in the commit message) 10:03:58 <|amethyst> mumra: git log -S func but it can be slow 10:04:15 <|amethyst> "Look for differences that introduce or remove an instance of " 10:04:31 thanks 10:06:49 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:01 -!- pantaril has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:07:18 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:07:26 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:03 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:03 -!- Wehk has quit [Client Quit] 10:11:03 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:13 %git f52a1207e2d2 10:11:13 07dolorous * 0.13-a0-1103-gf52a120: Put a Xom message in the proper channel. 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f52a1207e2d2 10:11:14 bh: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:11:17 !messages 10:11:18 (1/3) kilobyte said (7h 34m 54s ago): while protobufs look potentially useful for webtiles, I can't really think of a single reason to use them for saves. 10:11:24 !messages 10:11:24 (1/2) kilobyte said (7h 34m 12s ago): Most of the logic is required for upgrades (no help from protobufs), they don't handle _value_ enums (which could be useful), reader/writer code would be more complex, and ordering of fields is not a real burden. 10:11:30 !messages 10:11:31 (1/1) kilobyte said (7h 31m 58s ago): only thing they would help with are optional fields, at the cost of nearly doubling saves 10:12:10 While dol's change put's the xom message in the right place, I'm not sure it was originally supposed to be restricted to Xom worshippers 10:12:48 <|amethyst> I think Xom was the only way you could get it 10:13:08 !tell kilobyte By `doubling saves` you mean the overhead of storing tags? I don't think this would be the case because protobuf more efficiently stores integers 10:13:09 bh: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 10:13:13 |amethyst: ah 10:13:26 |amethyst: can't you get it from xom penance? 10:13:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:14:06 <|amethyst> bh: I thought Xom doesn't try to avoid killing from penance and wrath? 10:14:48 Oh that Xom :) 10:15:02 <|amethyst> this is in avoid_lethal 10:16:13 who suggested adding chaos brand to xom btw 10:16:19 i mean 10:16:22 CK 10:17:28 Jevouse: someone around the time we were playing with Jesters 10:17:47 %git HEAD^{/night.*rand} 10:18:19 07jpeg * rb330585db366: In my previous commit I also moved equipment slots around, so the spears of Berserkers start at 'c'. Now I did the same for Merfolk Hunters (javelins). 10(6 years ago, 1 file, 17+ 24-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b330585db366 10:18:19 i wanna give him a hug 10:18:19 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:19 %git HEAD^{/rand.*night} 10:18:20 07DracoOmega * 0.12-a0-2468-gc903ba8: Give ironbrand preservers a random band 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 31+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c903ba895e7f 10:18:20 i proposed it but i stole it from an old suggestion of monqy's 10:18:25 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:25 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:26 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:29 and then i wrote the two-line patch and dracoomega changed it and pushed it 10:18:29 ...neither of those is what I'm looking for :b 10:18:38 %git HEAD^{\+0.*chaos} 10:18:38 Could not find commit HEAD^{\+0.*chaos} (git returned 128) 10:18:51 %git e904e0d0 10:18:51 07DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-116-ge904e0d: Make Chaos Knights start with +0 chaos weapons instead of +2 normal ones 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e904e0d0ebbe 10:19:55 so grouphug 10:19:56 got it 10:20:38 maybe we should bring back Jesters, minus the silliness ;) 10:20:48 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:26 (there'd be nothing left) 10:22:15 background that starts with nothing 10:22:22 eh 10:22:26 I'd like jesters. 10:22:32 Just for the silliness. 10:22:48 I mean currently you kind of have to depend on luck to get some silly stuff happening. 10:22:58 Or do some potentially boring stuff like roll a MuCK. 10:23:18 And let the Xom show figure something out. 10:23:44 Bloax: we already have wanderers 10:24:04 lol MuCK 10:24:08 pubby pubby 10:24:31 !lg * won race=mu god=jiyva 10:24:32 4. coolrobin the Intangible (L27 MuSk), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-04-20 04:54:36, with 17996302 points after 84815 turns and 7:37:48. 10:24:40 !lg * won race=vp god=jiyva 10:24:41 4. crate the Imperceptible (L24 VpAE), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-02-20 01:39:04, with 1509905 points after 74153 turns and 5:39:53. 10:24:43 jiyva mummy 10:24:45 eww 10:24:45 !lg * won race=gh god=jiyva 10:24:46 5. mamga the Grand Master (L27 GhGl), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-05-10 02:53:58, with 1603851 points after 71774 turns and 4:16:46. 10:25:01 how do I check those for max piety? 10:25:20 You could try looking at the dumps 10:25:31 !lg * won race=mu god=Xom 10:25:32 16. BOUMMMMG the Farming Demonologist (L27 MuCK), worshipper of Xom, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-05-18 22:56:20, with 1147299 points after 840255 turns and 12:41:38. 10:25:38 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 10:25:52 Farming Demonologist?! 10:26:07 sounds like Xom makes your title silly 10:26:24 840k turns is farming for a 3 runer 10:26:25 lol 10:26:26 !lg * won race=vp god=jiyva s=piety 10:26:27 4 games for * (won race=vp god=jiyva): 199, 198, 177, 196 10:26:27 I thought farming is if you spend too long 10:26:30 ??farming 10:26:33 farming[1/1]: "Farming" is added to the titles of games lasting longer than 200,000 turns by the IRC bots. 10:26:34 oh 10:26:41 nice. 10:26:51 -!- bh has quit [Quit: out] 10:27:23 200k tur ns 10:27:37 !lg * max=turns 10:27:39 2334425. apocalypserobin the Farming Insei (L3 VpMo), quit the game in the Temple (circular_temple_6) on 2011-10-25 16:08:51, with 67 points after 199999999 turns and 1d+12:40:50. 10:29:00 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:29:22 lol he tested the autoquit 10:29:30 the rule is >= 200k turns 10:29:38 !lg . win 10:29:39 21. KiloByte the Farming Ignorant (L27 HEAs), worshipper of Sif Muna, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-11-12 20:58:58, with 8849427 points after 203528 turns and 1d+2:08:06. 10:30:28 too bad it handles adjectives only sometimes 10:30:34 !lg . win -19 10:30:35 3/21. KiloByte the Invulnerable Farmer (L27 MuFi), worshipper of Okawaru, escaped with the Orb and 16 runes on 2008-12-03 23:23:52, with 2213368 points after 8213459 turns and 1d+8:23:58. 10:30:45 kilobyte: so the rod hitting for extra evo-scaled damage in melee sounds ok to you? 10:30:49 * kilobyte wanted an ignorant farmer :p 10:31:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:40 Jevouse: one downside is that it would reward resting early, but then, spells already do that 10:32:03 kilobyte: it wouldn't give more damage than firing the rod 10:32:18 kilobyte: well maybe it would early 10:32:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:03 so either a medium constant damage buff in melee range or trade the melee damage for range 10:35:27 http://sprunge.us/eKWb -- a crash due to a dead starcursed ass splitting (or at least splitting off a 0-hp part) 10:35:48 "starcursed ass" 10:39:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:41 Jevouse: perhaps even it could lose the ranged attack, being used for literally "striking" 10:41:10 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:42:28 kilobyte: well losing the ability to kite stuff like worms/ooze/jelly reliably doesn't sound fun 10:43:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:44:04 Grunt: More accurate name. 10:44:37 they're not exactly a widely loved monster 10:45:02 !lg * start>=20130101 cv>=0.12 abyss s=ckiller 10:45:03 2326 games for * (start>=20130101 cv>=0.12 abyss): 198x a small abomination, 167x a smoke demon, 164x a starcursed mass, 159x a large abomination, 125x a thrashing horror, 118x a wretched star, 91x a tentacled starspawn, 76x quitting, 69x an ufetubus, 67x a ynoxinul, 57x a sixfirhy, 56x a hellwing, 51x an ancient zyme, 47x a bone dragon, 42x a spatial maelstrom, 41x an orange demon, 41x a white im... 10:45:26 !lg * start>=20130101 cv>=0.12 abyss s=ckiller xl>=12 10:45:26 499 games for * (start>=20130101 cv>=0.12 abyss xl>=12): 65x a starcursed mass, 32x a large abomination, 32x a smoke demon, 30x a tentacled starspawn, 26x an Executioner, 20x a bone dragon, 16x a spatial maelstrom, 15x a Balrug, 14x a wretched star, 13x a small abomination, 12x a thrashing horror, 11x a lich, 10x a Hell Sentinel, 9x a hellion, 8x a sun demon, 7x stupidity, 7x quitting, 7x an ancie... 10:45:27 i could see the range of the dart being shorter than LoS though 10:45:32 there 10:46:45 !lg * t place=Abyss s=killer xl=27 10:46:45 13 games for * (t place=Abyss xl=27): 6x a starcursed mass, 3x, a tentacled starspawn, a spatial maelstrom, a hellion, a dire elephant 10:47:12 !lg * t abyss s=ckiller 10:47:14 794 games for * (t abyss): 67x a small abomination, 56x a starcursed mass, 51x a smoke demon, 49x a large abomination, 47x a thrashing horror, 35x a wretched star, 33x a tentacled starspawn, 24x a bone dragon, 22x a sixfirhy, 18x an Executioner, 18x a hellwing, 18x a ynoxinul, 17x a spatial maelstrom, 16x quitting, 15x an ufetubus, 14x a white imp, 13x an ancient zyme, 13x a Balrug, 13x burning, 1... 10:47:46 !lg * killer=small abomination s=xl 10:47:46 No keyword 'abomination' 10:47:52 !lg * killer=small_abomination s=xl 10:47:52 oops 10:47:53 2899 games for * (killer=small_abomination): 1663x 1, 177x 8, 162x 9, 137x 2, 137x 7, 120x 10, 110x 6, 86x 3, 65x 5, 62x 4, 58x 11, 26x 12, 26x 14, 17x 15, 14x 16, 14x 13, 8x 18, 6x 17, 4x 27, 2x 21, 20, 19, 22, 25, 23 10:48:02 !lg * t !boring place=Abyss s=killer xl=27 10:48:03 13 games for * (t !boring place=Abyss xl=27): 6x a starcursed mass, 3x, a tentacled starspawn, a spatial maelstrom, a hellion, a dire elephant 10:48:07 !lg * place=abyss killer=small_abomination s=xl 10:48:08 2313 games for * (place=abyss killer=small_abomination): 1619x 1, 132x 2, 73x 3, 66x 10, 60x 9, 49x 8, 48x 4, 42x 5, 42x 7, 40x 11, 37x 6, 23x 14, 21x 12, 17x 15, 14x 16, 8x 13, 7x 18, 6x 17, 2x 21, 2x 27, 25, 22, 19, 23, 20 10:48:34 god damn it 10:48:36 lainiw: hmm, testing some stuff; the random conjurations rod seems ludicrously powerful for a starting item, even with only enough charges to fire once 10:48:40 !lg * t place=abyss killer=small_abomination s=xl 10:48:40 67 games for * (t place=abyss killer=small_abomination): 51x 1, 3x 4, 3x 14, 2x 9, 2x 3, 2x 10, 2, 12, 8, 5 10:48:43 there 10:48:45 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:49 51x xl1 10:48:59 mumra: what's this about a random conjurations rod? 10:49:16 Grunt: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:background:artificer 10:49:17 Rod of Xomly Might 10:49:59 kilobyte: 1d700 damage for 1d50% hp 10:50:13 lainiw suggested a new rod could fire random low-level conjurations rather than just magic dart 10:50:40 Ah. 10:50:44 And here I thought something had come up wrt randart rods <_< 10:51:14 double spawn rate! 10:52:10 quadruple spawn rate 10:52:22 especially rod of inaccuracy 10:52:24 (QUAD DAMAGE) 10:52:25 and gong randomly every 1d5 turns for 30 turns 10:53:00 next up: DCSS achievements. 10:53:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:40 Achievement Unlocked: Defeated Cerebov with -5 Dagger 10:53:52 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:38 Achievement Unlocked: did 15 runer with initial chaos branded weapon as CK. 10:55:04 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:39 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:44 Achievement Unloacked: Defeated Antaeus without magic or weapons with 0 Unarmed skill. 10:57:23 lol, there's a suggestion about it in the wiki 11:00:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:05 too bad they didn't get around to implementing it yet 11:02:19 Implementing what? 11:02:28 we already have tournament banners what more do you want 11:02:46 the achievements 11:03:06 ... 11:03:11 banners are like achievements that actually mean something 11:04:41 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:30 doesn't work offline th 11:05:30 o 11:06:48 they _cna_ do 11:06:56 _can_ i mean 11:07:06 if you set up your own local server and install the tournament scripts 11:07:49 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:14:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:15:06 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:16:51 hmm, maybe not as overpowered as i thought 11:16:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:51 it's definitely pretty fun 11:18:07 multizap! 11:23:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:44 -!- djanatyn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:52 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:11 uh ... well shock is only one of the effects so trying to set up multizaps is mostly futile 11:28:43 i think have UnxUtils in my path is making it too easy to not learn powershell ... 11:30:42 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31:24 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:33:46 well, u don't have to specifically set up positioning for it 11:33:57 just aim it to do so when u can! 11:34:23 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 11:36:29 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:54 -!- xxx is now known as Guest5059 11:42:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:42 ok this is actually pretty fun and i'd say no more overpowered to begin with than e.g. Wz 11:43:16 and survivability drops off quite sharply 11:43:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:51 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:04 -!- thebananafish has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:49 ok Im back, got a basic webtiles server up, but when I try to play a trunk I get - /home/crawl/crawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/shops.des:182: Requested corpse 'jellyfish' is invalid 11:48:01 and it kills the crawl 11:48:59 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:05 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:50 <|amethyst> thebananafish: I think that's a bug in crawl; recompiling to test 11:52:03 kilobyte just made jellyfish corpseless 11:52:13 oh ok, Im not much of any kind of programmer 11:52:16 sounds like a vault tries to create one 11:52:16 so I have no idea 11:52:43 <|amethyst> mumra: it does; I'm changing it to (a chance of) an electric eel corpse instead 11:52:48 if a vault is placing jellyfish corpse ..... what the fuck 11:52:58 it's in a shop i think 11:52:59 <|amethyst> st_: guppyfry_shop_fishing 11:53:15 <|amethyst> st_: it's bait, I guess 11:53:20 -!- whog has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:53:28 <|amethyst> maybe I should just remove that one 11:53:45 it doesn't sound like good bait 11:53:52 <|amethyst> maybe it's food? 11:53:57 <|amethyst> w:999 big fish corpse | w:10 giant goldfish corpse | w:10 shark corpse | w:10 snapping turtle corpse 11:54:06 <|amethyst> (not very good food either, unless you have rP) 11:54:22 should be w:999 "this" big fish corpse 11:54:53 <|amethyst> yeah, that's it 11:55:02 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte didn't notice because of the des cache 11:55:21 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:10 <|amethyst> actually 11:56:24 <|amethyst> I think rather than "electric eel corpse" I will replace it with "worm corpse" 11:56:27 <|amethyst> because bait 11:56:41 or maybe there shouldn't a be a shop selling corpses 11:57:06 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:12 do I have to edit the file or will it be updated on git 11:58:26 <|amethyst> thebananafish: I'm about to push it to git 11:58:32 it doesn't appear to actually ever generate with corpses in it anyway 11:58:32 ok thank you 11:58:51 even despite weight:999 11:59:19 <|amethyst> thebananafish: it's pushed now 11:59:40 great! thanks 12:00:11 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: the potential demon trident on D:4 is kind of weird too (though quite rare) 12:00:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:01:00 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: I kind of like the flavour, but perhaps that can be done differently 12:01:13 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:15 excellent yeah fixed up my issues 12:02:15 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:02:34 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1118-g078590d: Replace a jellyfish corpse with bait. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=078590db2e8a 12:03:18 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:33 if anyone wants to test this artificer, i can push to a branch. it definitely needs some more thought and balancing though 12:04:15 <|amethyst> so kilobyte merged lava orcs and djinn into one branch 12:04:29 * elliott finds basically all the existing shop vaults highly questionable 12:04:56 <|amethyst> could add newAr, grotesk, and forest onto the same branch and put it up on cszo later today 12:05:10 <|amethyst> If someone else feels like doing the merging work :P 12:05:28 -!- thebananafish has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:05:33 <|amethyst> could even rename the branch to trunk :P 12:05:41 <|amethyst> s/trunk/master/ 12:05:41 haha 12:05:47 hyper 12:06:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:44 also newSk 12:08:51 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:09:43 MoogleDan (L18 CeSk) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 403 failed. (D:16) 12:09:56 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:11:24 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:29 <|amethyst> noise_grid::apply_noise_effects -> monster_at 12:12:41 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1119-g9484b7c: Remove a non-functional shop vault 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 30-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9484b7ca84ff 12:12:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:58 <|amethyst> meaning a position is in-bounds and its mgrd is not NON_MONSTER, but is also > MAX_MONSTERS 12:14:00 <|amethyst> mumra: that crash looks like it involved Kirke http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/MoogleDan/crash-MoogleDan-20130529-170942.txt 12:14:07 damn 12:14:14 this crash happened yesterday 12:14:32 i shuffled some things around but i suspected that might have fixed it 12:14:43 uh, i mean "might not" 12:14:44 <|amethyst> mumra: in 0.12? 12:15:00 no i mean, 3 days ago or so i changed something to do with kirke 12:15:05 then there was a crash 12:15:36 <|amethyst> mumra: I mean, was any of that cherry-picked? 12:15:44 oh 12:15:44 <|amethyst> mumra: because this is 0.12.1-44-gf8d718b 12:15:44 no 12:15:46 hmm 12:15:56 that proves my recent changes to kirke are nothing to do with the crash 12:16:11 <|amethyst> mumra: but might indicate that they should be backported :) 12:16:50 i don't think the problem is fixed though :) 12:16:51 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1118-g078590d (34) 12:17:28 i'm just surprised it never came up before; it's certainly not easy to reproduce 12:17:40 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:16 <|amethyst> !tell thebananafish btw, thanks for catching that jellyfish corpse crash... 30 minutes later and CAO trunk would have been broken :) 12:18:18 |amethyst: OK, I'll let thebananafish know. 12:18:27 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:50 |amethyst: yesterday when it happened the player had been reverted from hogform so i thought it might be that, but this seems to be nothing to do with that 12:19:00 and in this case in fact there don't even seem to be *any* hogs getting reverted 12:20:24 the assert is happening later when the view gets updated, i've no idea how an mindex has become invalid at that point 12:21:01 actually sorry no, the stack is different this time 12:24:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:30:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:44 back to good ol' formless abyss 12:32:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1120-gffee786: Increase depth range of layout_cave_town 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ffee786e4a3b 12:32:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1121-g4157414: Disable problematic Abyss layouts 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4157414ca91b 12:32:57 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-1122-gafb9db8: Remove filled boxes from Pan variant of layout_gridlike 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=afb9db8365eb 12:33:37 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:01 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:35 * Grunt churns out some more badtiles... 12:45:05 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:48:08 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1156-gc0efcae: Tiles for fauns, satyrs, and Pan from your favorite badtile author. 10(10 minutes ago, 7 files, 18+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c0efcae2bcd7 12:48:08 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1162-g22685b6: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into forest_redux 10(8 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=22685b62b9f4 12:52:28 trap_monsters_doors_1 should be removed 12:52:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:53:23 it's a poorly thought out autoexplore trap that punishes the player for normally reasonable actions 12:54:24 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 12:54:48 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:13 YAY! i'm working with a project called mingw32dbghelp that probably won't be useful to crawl but does claim to do be able to do stack traces for mingw compiled programs on windows. i had to switch to STABS debugging (-gstabs) instead of (-g) symbols, but i just more or less got their provided test code to work correctly 12:55:52 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:20 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:37 they are using (an old version of) WINE's version of the dbghelp and imagehelp libraries, since apparently they understand DWARF symbols instead of the windows native pdb that the real libraries use 12:58:15 03Grunt 07[forest_redux] * 0.13-a0-1163-g8ce78c0: A description for the Forest entrance feature. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ce78c07bc86 12:58:19 -!- Guest5059 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:58:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:16 hehehehe. "why does crawl .13 include WINE ... and why does it only include it for windows builds" 12:59:18 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:54 :p 13:06:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:29 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:08:31 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:35 it prepares us for the appledays 13:10:27 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:12:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:49 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130528030942]] 13:15:37 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:21 i can't remember if this has been brought up before, if i'm in fungiform should an invisible enemy still stop me moving? 13:19:18 presumably not 13:19:22 maybe disturbances should though??? 13:19:28 incl the ones invis makes 13:20:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 262 seconds] 13:20:47 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:31 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22:19 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:06 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:08 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:15 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:32 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:32:55 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:39:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:44:55 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:46:44 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:49:16 |amethyst: so you say the experimental branch should be named "trunk" (ok, "master")? 13:51:11 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:52 Killing vault warden with delayed fireball unseals doors but doesn't update display by epdtry 13:55:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:58:07 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:19 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:52 hey DracoOmega 14:00:01 i was wondering, you haven't been doing anything with Box of Beasts have you? 14:00:18 I haven't yet, though I had been pondering about it a little yesterday 14:00:45 Had you been giving it some thought yourself or something? 14:01:05 well there's an old proposal on https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:magical:misc&s[]=box&s[]=beasts#box_of_beasts 14:01:28 i was thinking of making some of those tweaks, but i didn't want to overlap if you were thinking of doing something 14:01:51 i had a go at reworking the Artificer starting kit with a new rod 14:01:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02:24 and right now a deck of escape and a box of beasts as well as keeping the wand of random effects 14:02:38 four items is probably overkill, but it's pretty fun to play 14:02:48 Yeah, I suppose that's not that different than what I was thinking, regarding the box: make the stuff always friendly, but scale what you can get out of it very strongly with evocations and make the higher level stuff better than it currently is so that there's some point to using it later, if you have high evocations 14:03:05 since the deck and the box are of somewhat tenuous usefulness and run out fairly quickly usually 14:03:36 yeah it seems like the most obvious fix 14:04:18 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:36 I don't think I really like a starting deck of escape, personally. It feels both a bit 'complicated' and also unreliable in a sort of unpleasant way for the starting kit 14:05:04 I could probably see a starting box of beasts if it was suitably tuned, though 14:05:22 I hope it's not a randomised deck 14:05:51 yeah; at the moment i was just playing with ideas 14:06:15 although on a few test games the deck was pretty useful on a number of occasions 14:06:37 Oh, I'm sure it could be useful from time to time, but I don't really think that's the main problem as such 14:07:00 Also a starting item that can randomly banish you from time to time? =/ 14:07:01 and it feels quite good having several very different types of gadget to play with, which is what i think Ar should be really 14:07:13 haha 14:07:13 I can agree with that general sentiment, sure 14:07:18 i didn't actually realise it could do that 14:07:25 ??damnation_card 14:07:26 damnation[1/2]: The Damnation card throws multiple creatures into the Abyss, the number of creatures increasing with power. You are a creature. However, that's not to say you will be thrown into the abyss, just that you might be (and your chance doesn't increase with power). Unless you're the only visible creature, in which case you will be. 14:07:28 but i haven't ever really played much with decks 14:07:44 It's pretty rare, but it exists 14:07:45 hmm, I wonder if this consolidation of 15 vaults into 5 using CLEAR will crash crawl or not 14:07:46 tenofswords: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:07:49 erp 14:08:05 tenofswords: when have i ever coded something that crashed crawl 14:08:27 the rotating cloud generator readily does so in terms of last things you did with vaults....... 14:08:43 when have i ever FINISHED coding something thta crashed crawl :P 14:09:01 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1123-g98354d5: Remove a trap vault 10(25 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 102-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98354d5b99be 14:09:01 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1124-gfeb35aa: Don't let okawaru_arena be an overflow, move it deeper 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=feb35aa9d539 14:09:14 My Crawl dev morgue directory has 570 crash dumps in it presently :P 14:09:20 (Not all of them were MY fault, of course....) 14:09:22 okay that I'd have to actively remember 14:12:09 DracoOmega: anyway if the box of beasts was a bit more reliable and less inclined to run out after like 2 uses, it's probably fine without the deck 14:12:48 or there could be some potential new item that nobody's thought of yet 14:12:55 Does the box have a number of charges it is made with, or does it just randomly poof on each attempt? 14:13:14 Because certainly it should have more than 2 or 3 uses for its general rarity level 14:13:15 ??box of beasts 14:13:15 box of beasts[1/1]: Your own mobile petting zoo! Evoke to release a beast. If the evocation was unsuccessful, there is a 1 in 6 chance that the box will turn into a simple empty ebony casket. Succeeds (60 + evo)/100. Hostile: 1/(evo+5). Bat, hound, jackal, rat, ice beast, snake, yak, butterfly, water moccasin, crocodile, or hell hound (if not worshipping a good god). 14:13:32 the box of beasts should also summon things that aren't useless probably 14:13:37 Well, of course 14:13:39 hell beasts 14:13:40 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:13:50 Well, there's all kinds of interesting beasts to pick from, really 14:13:55 !learn edit box_of_beasts s/turn into a simple empty ebony casket/go poof/ 14:13:55 box of beasts[1/1]: Your own mobile petting zoo! Evoke to release a beast. If the evocation was unsuccessful, there is a 1 in 6 chance that the box will go poof. Succeeds (60 + evo)/100. Hostile: 1/(evo+5). Bat, hound, jackal, rat, ice beast, snake, yak, butterfly, water moccasin, crocodile, or hell hound (if not worshipping a good god). 14:14:09 box of beasts would need to be reworked to be at all suitable for Ar start 14:14:32 But yes, in addition to summoning help that scales with evo and contains a lot stronger things for a real investment, it should have actual charges (not that the player needs to SEE them; just to gaurentee that you get at least a certain amount of things) 14:14:38 Well, yes 14:14:40 That is the idea 14:15:02 clearly should balance it like crawlt summon dragon 14:15:07 am i right in thinking that "TAGS: unique_something_something" does nothing at all and is probably a typo for "uniq_whatever_thingy" ? 14:15:08 box of dragons and newts 14:15:17 Get creatures based on your evo, instead of its current list 14:15:29 DracoOmega: I also don't believe in giving people it if it ever creates anything hostile 14:15:32 So no D:1 hell hounds, but also no evo 27 butterflies 14:15:40 Yes, I see no reason to make it give hostile things 14:15:50 If instead what it gives is just scaled to your skill 14:15:57 So no early hell hounds or whatever, friendly or otherwise 14:15:57 MarvinPA: that's correct yes 14:16:14 marvinpa: isn't there only one vault that uses a tag with unique_foo_foo and that vault itself doesn't share that tag with anything else, making it a moot point 14:16:26 or is there a submission somewhere I... missed 14:16:27 and in general I'd be more interested in trying to make box of beasts reasonable later on than Ar start, though of course those aren't mutually exclusive 14:16:30 So basically artificer could start with a reasonable small number of charges of 'summon random scaled ally', more or less 14:16:41 there were two and that was true for both of them, yes 14:16:45 And yes, I'd want it to be reasonable both as a starter item and a late one 14:16:46 Based on evo 14:16:49 (one was the oka one i just edited) 14:17:01 (the other is hungry kobold vault) 14:17:24 oh 14:19:08 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-1125-g37d3fac: Remove a do-nothing tag 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=37d3fac45fac 14:19:32 DracoOmega: stone of tremors is awesome btw, i think it's my favourite of the new items 14:19:55 Oh, really? I actually found that one the most underwhelming, myself, but I tried so many different effects for it and all of them worked out worse 14:20:04 okay, crawl isn't even giving me a syntax error message on start-up 14:20:46 it just feels really cool to use, maybe i found it so interesting because it's such a different effect to anything else in the game 14:20:47 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:21:12 the damage on it seemed pretty low when i could find places for it to work 14:21:38 compared to lamp of fire at least 14:21:40 It does a bunch more damage than lamp of fire does, but of course also lacks the clouds 14:21:41 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:21:47 -!- RZX_ is now known as RZX 14:21:48 So maybe that means it does less in practice 14:22:04 mumra since this effort to actually doing something is your fault will you look through my edits for syntax errors because I don't know if I'm just missing something 14:22:09 Given that it is more awkward to use in other ways (requires being next to a wall), perhaps it should be stronger 14:22:09 could be, also i didn't actually try many times 14:22:50 -!- Jevouse has quit [] 14:22:55 maybe affected squares could carry on dropping rubble randomly for a few subsequent turns 14:23:09 it could also raise dust clouds and have a LOS control aspect 14:23:28 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:28 I did try making it drop actual obscuring rubble for a while 14:23:36 It was amazingly difficult to make that actually matter unless it dropped a ton of it 14:23:46 Particularly due to how it removes some walls in the process 14:23:59 tenofswords: i'll have a look. is anything actually failing#? 14:24:17 DracoOmega: hmm, good point about wall removal 14:24:35 well crawl stalls on start-up on these 14:24:52 doesn't it give an error? 14:24:57 not even 14:25:29 maybe this is just me working with gaf454e1 because I'm a dirty rss user but 14:25:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:32 http://sprunge.us/ABfC 14:26:00 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:16 tenofswords: i don't see any syntax problems but it's possible that the parser is getting confused by quotes because of how i specified the arguments 14:28:32 does this replace a particular file? 14:28:42 it's varied random vaults in lair.des 14:28:58 can you sprunge the whole lair.des with the changes 14:29:58 jelly form: should it be purged already? 14:30:31 or would someone want to improve its design? 14:30:53 it sounds good in theory 14:30:54 "You make a slurping noise!" 14:30:56 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:14 for your crash-dumping pleasure: http://sprunge.us/gFRb 14:31:21 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:22 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:34 mumra: hard to come up with ways to give it a fighting chance, especially as it's a slow form 14:31:49 tenofswords: if you start crawl from the command line you should see an error 14:32:07 d:/Projects/Crawl/CrawlTrunk/crawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des:464: malformed declaration - must use = or : in '^~' 14:32:14 the line is: 14:32:15 KFEAT: ^~ 14:32:20 whoooooops 14:32:53 crawl/crawl/crawl/crawl/ 14:33:21 cd cccc as i like to call it 14:33:29 local console has been good about not needing command line work except why does the error have to only show-up on there anyway 14:33:59 yeah it'd be nice if a dialog popped up or something 14:34:12 it used to do it fine 14:34:23 it does it for ASSERT errors 14:34:32 but not for stuff like this that goes to stderr 14:34:49 (the complaint I have is that tiles doesn't get either if it's on start-up and tiles is better for vaulttesting shut up) 14:34:53 what about stuff like putting the wrong egos on items 14:34:59 that isn't an assert surely 14:35:25 tenofswords: i mean, running the tiles version, but from the command line 14:36:07 i usually have the command line open anyway for git and make 14:36:16 so i'm in the habit of always starting it from there 14:36:26 anyway I was doing tests and had errors show in one version and not in another so 14:37:07 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:49 at least aside from not actually showing errors anymore this was just me being rusty with syntax rather than CLEAR: being to blame 14:37:57 it's probably something SamB changed :P 14:38:30 do I get to lynch him 14:38:33 tenofswords: i'm always glad when it wasn't me that broke things 14:39:00 for now 14:39:38 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:17 mmmm, first test of this combined minmay_oklob_chamber I get a layout_long_grid with a orient: east vault that doesn't actually connect to anything 14:40:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:40:45 surely not every vault is supposed to always have @s or transparency tags 14:41:39 @s are rarely necessary 14:42:29 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:42:32 maybe it has to do with tiny orient:foo vaults lining up with a level edge rather than the level and the lack of @/transparency making the game not purposefully connect to an isolated island 14:43:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:46:10 -!- Zauren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:17 mumra: what did I probably do now? 14:47:02 something to do with lua compilation errors appearing or not appearing ;) 14:47:24 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:44 st_ thinks they used to appear in a dialog box 14:47:52 this is what I get for dabbling in black magic 14:48:24 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:38 mumra: I kind of doubt it, and I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything to make things WORSE 14:48:47 ...also, I think CLEAR doesn't work the way I think it should 14:48:52 at one point I was thinking of trying to make them better though 14:49:13 but sorta got confused ... 14:50:09 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:51:44 tenofswords: how so 14:52:09 -!- Helmschank_ is now known as Helmschank 14:52:10 SamB: it's ok i was just making wild unfounded accusations 14:52:13 yeah I thought so 14:52:13 after you said what I was accused of 14:52:21 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:30 hmm, i wonder if mon-pick can be abused to make the box of beasts spawns more sensible 14:52:30 http://sprunge.us/KJLc 14:52:42 neither of these uses of CLEAR are actually letting the smaller versions of the vault appear 14:54:54 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:55 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:56 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:57 -!- caracal has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:58 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:01 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:04 -!- Guest81510 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57:04 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:57:26 tenofswords: they might be vetoing because clearing the middle area creates three disconnected bubbles 14:57:26 tenofswords: i just placed one with &L and it seemed to work 14:57:32 bah, I've been using &P 14:58:12 vault's been tagged with transparent though 14:58:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 14:58:38 that means it gets checked for connectivity 14:58:41 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:47 ...bah 14:59:37 but in this case you could still cause a veto even if it's opaque i think 15:00:11 because it's three separate opaque areas as far as the connectivity checker is concerned 15:00:18 so I will blame lemuel's vault being weird instead of my work 15:00:20 but at this point i'm a bit confused as to what will happen 15:00:31 because we're in uncharted grounds here 15:00:52 making our own maps 15:00:53 if it was on an open level it would definitely be fine 15:01:02 "here be dragons" 15:01:59 V would definitely have a problem with vaults like that 15:03:02 if it's just the three seperate blobs why can't I get the smaller circle version to &P spawn either after changing the lua odds 15:03:04 ... although eventually i'll have a system that forcibly connects up anything that isn't connected, banishing vetos forever ... 15:04:13 tenofswords: again, it works for me; how are you placing it? 15:04:36 &P over and over 15:04:43 well that won't work 15:04:47 since it's not an orient vault 15:04:49 &L 15:04:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:56 yes it is 15:05:07 not in the version you gave me anyway 15:05:17 ...oh 15:05:39 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:45 well in http://sprunge.us/BTIA 15:06:12 tenofswords: if i add ORIENT then it places the small version 15:08:22 tenofswords: it's kind of hard to see where it places due to no recognisable features 15:08:27 but it seems to be working fine for me 15:09:21 oh right 15:09:27 you know what's happening, don't you 15:09:33 move the TILE declarations to the end 15:11:00 in fact, surely that first SUBST should be at the end too 15:11:27 since you're SUBSTing glyphs away to other values before you have a chance to CLEAR them 15:11:40 ....oh 15:12:00 see this is what I get for trying to resemble lemuel's original syntax for the vault in a new scenario 15:12:06 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:38 also that first KFEAT does nothing because those glyphs don't exist yet 15:12:45 What are you trying to accomplish now, anyway? 15:12:55 its okay, iirc I found a similar mistake in some of Grunt's work ... 15:12:56 i'm just helping tenofswords with his vault syntax ;) 15:13:08 see new things are hard to get 15:13:58 remember CLEAR is just like SUBST: foo = 15:14:23 so it has to fit in the order of things just like everything else 15:15:01 okay, if I just want to leave things at this 15 vaults to 5 vaults then I'll have a patch ready soon 15:15:08 ... which lead to monsters teleporting into some grunt_ashenzari_visionary subvaults ... 15:15:38 (in particular he put some of his KPROPs in the wrong places) 15:15:57 tenofswords: but i know you don't want to stop until you've reduced literally all vaults to just 1! 15:15:57 How exactly are you compressing these vaults? Like, are they that similar in the first place that the differences could be handled by randomization? 15:16:17 it's a bunch of vaults where the only difference is size 15:16:29 Oh, I see 15:16:52 mumra: nah, I'd run into character limits for KFOO at some point 15:16:53 that reminds me of the one where the plants would turn ot oklobs for some reason 15:17:01 That is gone, I believe 15:17:05 I know 15:17:25 but I think it had a lot of concentric circles, yes? 15:17:34 that was my badvault :P 15:17:50 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:18:11 I'm thinking about how such things could be used to make various sizes of circle vault somehow 15:18:38 you, uh, do not want to know what I plan to do with CLEAR in the long run 15:18:45 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:18:53 We don't? 15:18:54 it will summon dead gods and light skies on fire 15:19:10 not to self: stop giving tenofswords new toys 15:19:12 and I will have to make clones of myself to be able to check for mistakes 15:19:16 s/not/note/ 15:19:18 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:32 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:20:44 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:25:43 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:50 should I leave comments in the .des about what vaults I've absorbed together or should the commit comment just be enough 15:26:41 A brief comment in the .des mightn't hurt, but I'd say save any long explanation for the commit 15:27:47 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 15:30:55 -!- Blade-- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:17 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:33 -!- Blade-- is now known as Blade- 15:32:50 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38:44 Vizer (L15 DrEn) ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 404 failed. (D:16) 15:40:10 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:21 mumra: I'm still dealing with this web tiles javascript tile issue. I can see that the check for my bg.LANDING flag is being reached, but it seems that the flag is never true in cell_renderer.js 15:40:21 gammafunk: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:40:24 -!- Blade- has quit [] 15:40:25 !messages 15:40:26 (1/3) mumra said (10h 28m 13s ago): it might be a conflict with the exclusive_flags thing that immediately follows since that uses 0x00080000 fir CURSOR2 15:40:27 -!- Blade-_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:31 -!- Blade-_ is now known as Blade- 15:40:36 comments in the .des should mostly be about why things are how they are 15:40:41 !messages 15:40:42 (1/2) mumra said (10h 26m 19s ago): also on a second look i'm not why you've added exports.CURSOR_LANDING since you don't use it anywhere or did you just not get around to that yet? 15:40:55 !messages 15:40:56 (1/1) Grunt said (6h 4m 33s ago): I'm not sure what I have to do with webtiles; it's all very arcane to me <_< 15:40:56 I guess that sometimes includes stuff about how they were before 15:41:14 -!- TZer0 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:41:29 but for the most part, describing the changes does indeed belong to the commit message 15:42:03 gammafunk: yesterday you left before i had chance to answer ;) 15:42:17 mumra: yeah, I saw your messages, thanks 15:43:12 I guess it could be the cursor2 thing, but the other flag (LANDING_ALT) has no bitwise overlap and it also doesn't show 15:43:57 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:18 ...okay, I just pulled from master, why did eight other files change when I edited one 15:44:20 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:24 -!- ibanix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:39 "pulled from master". does that not explain the other 7? 15:47:17 something about source/contrib 15:47:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:30 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:47:34 the submodules? i saw this the other day 15:48:00 yes that 15:48:03 git update submodules 15:48:05 I think 15:48:27 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:30 or git submodule update? 15:48:50 one or the other. should make git happy 15:48:52 the latter seems to work, thanks 15:49:53 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:50:37 clearly the devs are testing our git abilities. next week they will rebase a bunch of stuff and then force push to see what we do 15:51:30 !tell edlothiol I can see using js debugger that checks for my flag are being reached in web tiles, but the flag is never set (true). Does this suggest anywhere there might be a problem (e.g. crawl binary side versus JS side) 15:51:31 gammafunk: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 15:51:33 blackcustard: we don't do that to master 15:51:55 I only amended, like, ONCE 15:52:04 and I'd misspelled someone's name 15:52:12 wait so you actually DO do that to branches? 15:52:24 and it was only a little after pushing 15:52:36 i guess that makes since, the branches are basically all just one dev's private but publically visible repo 15:53:20 -!- Helmschank has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:25 I frown on doing it to branches that others are probably looking at 15:54:06 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:20 and possibly committing on -- especially if there have been commits by others already ... 15:54:50 what is --? the branch origin point? 15:56:02 mumra: I am seeing a 'Tile not found: undefined' error message in console now that I look at it 15:56:37 -!- nooodl__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:43 gammafunk: re-read my messages i already explained why the flag isn't getting set 15:56:47 you are colliding with enum values 15:56:48 -!- nooodl__ is now known as nooodl 15:56:48 -- is an ASCII stand-in for a longer kind of dash 15:56:52 !messages 15:56:53 No messages for gammafunk. 15:56:53 it's only by chance that it works at all in tiles 15:57:03 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:57:05 the messages that you already saw 15:57:20 I should haver said '"--" is an [...]' ... 15:58:03 okay, phew 15:58:04 although i'm not sure where that tile not found error came from, the js should get rebuilt when rltiles builds, if you've correctly added the tile... 15:58:05 http://sprunge.us/ZEZC 15:58:16 (hey somebody please push this) 15:58:31 mumra: the exclusive flags thing? that's specific to JS 15:58:45 they're also in crawl's enums 15:58:51 they're just not in a separate array there 15:58:57 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:59:01 they're immediately after your enums in crawl code 15:59:18 ok, so I need to make better flags? 15:59:29 you need to use values that aren't used by anything else 15:59:45 otherwise there's no way for the code to know which one you meant to use 15:59:52 amulets of gourmand should now be marked useless for kobolds 16:00:03 now I just have to figure out how to shuffle around deaths_head 16:00:27 I recall that there wasn't a lot of free bits available, but I'll fix that, thanks 16:00:29 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:36 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:41 gammafunk: maybe you can boost all the enums afterwards by another 0, hopefully it won't blow up the universe ding that :P 16:02:03 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:10 mumra: might I need to modify the mask at the end as well? 16:02:15 blackcustard: the submodules were all to make MSVC compilation work 16:02:24 gammafunk: shouldn't have to , the mask is only for the lower bits 16:02:32 (i think) 16:02:34 mumra: ok, will give it a shot 16:03:43 hopefully this time when I remove extraneous kfeat lines for monsters I don't accidentally mark down item quality 16:04:31 mumra: oh, I bet the flags have to match enum.h in enums.js 16:04:43 they don't in my code currently 16:04:44 gammafunk: that's right 16:04:48 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:04:52 that's my problem then 16:05:18 the packed cell gets sent to the js client, and it matches up the enum values to the right variable name in the data you end up analysing to draw to the webtiles canvas 16:05:36 it's a shame we don't autogenerate enums.js 16:06:59 !tell nicolae- I am going to make you eat your own liver for forgetting to extra tag all of your new decorative vaults 16:07:00 tenofswords: OK, I'll let nicolae- know. 16:07:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:02 !tell nicolae- I'll have the leftovers 16:08:03 elliott: OK, I'll let nicolae- know. 16:08:32 ?? hangedman wrath 16:08:32 I don't have a page labeled hangedman_wrath in my learndb. 16:08:47 DracoOmega: cool, a little reuse of mon-pick code, i now have a pop_entry array to define weights for box of beasts spawns at different evo levels 16:09:20 you get attacked by elemental giants using opposite-elemental weapons, rakshasas with wands, tormentors, and shadows 16:09:34 <|amethyst> mumra: was looking through the scrollback 16:09:35 <|amethyst> mumra: <+mumra> also that first KFEAT does nothing because those glyphs don't exist yet 16:09:38 mumra: Oh, that sounds a nice reuse 16:09:59 <|amethyst> mumra: KFEAT, KMASK, KITEM, and KMONS apply after all substitutions 16:10:17 I hope that involved adding a box of beasts branch I can visit in wizmode 16:10:19 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:24 <|amethyst> mumra: (KPROP does not but I made an implementable about fixing that) 16:10:29 box of beasts portal 16:10:30 elliott: Hahahaha 16:10:48 elliott: it nearly did lol 16:10:52 fr evoking a box of beasts transports you into that branch 16:10:53 i avoided that in the end tho 16:10:57 and you enslave the dudes you want 16:10:59 and walk out with them 16:11:06 Ha 16:11:14 free wand of enslavement? 16:11:16 1/50 chance you get sucked into the box and have to fight your way out 16:11:26 fr jumanji item 16:11:30 is hangedman a notorious tormentor and shadow user? 16:11:48 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:11:49 well you see in my upcoming vaults 16:12:06 btw how about removing demonic rune and adding a rune to crypt and then to forest?? 16:12:09 (also vaults are just like torment) 16:12:27 elliott: I had actually legitimately pondered that idea 16:12:44 |amethyst: yeah i actually knew this but got mixed up, i even started coding that KPROP/KMASK conflation, but it all got a bit headachey. more than half finished tho 16:12:55 But then no one would be tempted to try raiding hellion island anymore! 16:13:05 |amethyst: i actually followed the suggestion on the ticket to make them both work like KPROP tho, it seems more useful 16:13:10 DracoOmega: just make the loot better! 16:13:13 put a zig entrance there instead 16:13:15 yess 16:13:18 i approve 16:13:18 and having things only apply at the end is weird when SUBST and everything else apply in order 16:13:34 I'm not sure the people who die to hellion island even know there is a rune there 16:13:39 you mean, you don't try to raid it just for principle whenever you can? 16:13:48 I most certainly do not 16:14:02 there's no reason to do that for the rune, at least -- there will be easier vaults 16:14:03 In fact, I frequently skip it even when I don't yet HAVE the demonic rune and wish to get one 16:14:03 anyway the important problem is that no rune branches have a subbranch with a rune (tomb is a subbranch of a branch without a rune shut up) 16:14:06 <|amethyst> kilobyte: naming experimental "master" was only half serious; but if the new races could be easily removed without screwing stuff up, I don't think putting them in trunk is too unreasonable 16:14:21 tenofswords: That doesn't seem an important problem to me 16:14:28 but patternsssssssssss 16:14:31 tenofswords: need some more crazy pan vaults imo 16:14:49 tenofswords: IMO add a rune to D 16:14:54 <|amethyst> the dungeon is actually a very bad red-black tree 16:15:04 or make the subbranch relation cyclic 16:15:14 <|amethyst> where red nodes are the ones with runes 16:15:36 |amethyst: is it? 16:15:42 <|amethyst> (it omits the balancing property, though) 16:15:52 |amethyst: I looked into removing TRAN_JELLY, and while removing the proper code is rather easy, you end up with 6767596295875 warnings about TRAN_JELLY being unhandled in switch statements. I moved the enum to the end but bh added TRAN_FUNGUS since then. 16:16:02 * SamB forgot the red-black rules 16:16:18 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:16:23 so did i 16:16:28 and i just took a class covering them 16:16:34 * SamB guesses he could look it up -- that's in volume 3 right? 16:16:37 so removal is not always trivial even if you prepared for it 16:16:40 st_: I _do_ have plans but the problem is the one of just skipping psychotic ones as mentioned before 16:16:42 (or maybe okasaki?) 16:16:42 kilobyte: Can't you cover that with some kind of default case that throws errors or something? Not that this might be small to code I suppose, depending on how many there are 16:16:55 <|amethyst> SamB: 1. the root is black; 2. no red node has a red child; 3. for any node, every path from that node to a leaf has the same number of black nodes 16:17:19 DracoOmega: in such cases, we want warnings about genuinely missing transformations 16:17:31 ...that is a very good point 16:17:33 <|amethyst> kilobyte: so we just to come up with one more transformation, right? 16:17:45 <|amethyst> s/just to/just need to/ 16:17:54 * Grunt recalls talk of zombie form. 16:18:03 Zombie form sounds really boring 16:18:06 hey grunt help me with something here because you're a jerk 16:18:07 |amethyst: or adjust it when loading you.form 16:18:11 hm i was half kiddinga bout the demonic rune thing 16:18:13 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:14 (not really here, just checking in) 16:18:16 but now it seems like a good idea to me 16:18:24 nooooooo 16:18:29 elliott: what thing 16:18:42 also maybe we should try a bad idea instead 16:18:50 |amethyst: of course, making jellies viable is another option, I just don't know how to 16:18:56 !vault deaths_head 16:18:57 Couldn't find deaths_head in the Crawl source tree 16:19:05 SamB: btw how about removing demonic rune and adding a rune to crypt and then to forest?? 16:19:10 I'm on a phone and have about 4-5 minutes of down time right now <_< 16:19:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: yeah, it seems difficult 16:19:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you could have an acid blob non-bad form 16:20:01 J form whose abilities scale with HD. 16:20:22 grunt: well you see I am being a jerk and adding new monsters / rebalancing monsters in crypt end vaults but the thing is I want to randomize your always place a greater mummy with an ancient lich and revenants but I want something besides _more_ skeletal warriors to replace the guardian mummies 16:20:22 Spit acid at XL15 or so. 16:20:55 split acid blobs and azure jellies at XL27 16:21:09 overlap with Jiyva, though 16:21:19 (fr: oklob form; breath timeorut scales with XL) 16:22:18 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:50 Acid spit in general has not been a very strong player ability :P 16:23:12 or perhaps it could be a Jiyva invokable ability 16:23:17 give it to all felids 16:23:34 SamB: it's dogs who are scum! :p 16:23:36 <|amethyst> Choo Choo Bear? 16:24:00 or am I thinking of poison spit or something 16:24:48 DracoOmega: depends on the amount of acid 16:24:54 ugh, one change to enum.h aaaaand you're recompiling every object in the tree 16:25:27 kilobyte: I am not saying an acid-based attack could not be good, but if that was using the acid spit ability that already exists, I don't think it would be much worth using in most cases 16:27:10 does anyone like the idea of an 'animated' branch with a rune as an alternative to tomb, with animated, hostile potions, scrolls, wands (and of course weapons)? 16:27:55 it could be tricky to nail down, but the idea is certainly fun 16:28:15 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:28:33 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:51 DracoOmega: what do you think is a good formula to pick #charges of the box 16:28:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:11 I suppose that depends on how good the box actually IS at various levels, and I don't know that 16:29:24 gammafunk: i think that would work better as an alternative to Blade tbh, people tend to hate animated stuff as-is 16:29:34 But I'd say at least 5, anyway 16:29:36 gammafunk: or maybe a wizlab, i've had this idea for ages to do animated spellbooks 16:29:41 "wizard's library" 16:30:00 ASSERT(wpn) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4693 failed. 16:30:00 %??dancing weapon; potion of poison 16:30:04 mumra: haha, yeah. It's hard to resist, but I could see not liking animated stuff. 16:30:19 <|amethyst> wha?? 16:30:19 <|amethyst> oh 16:30:20 <|amethyst> that was Chei not Sizzell, sorry 16:30:21 DracoOmega: at the moment it scales up to hydrae and anacondas at max evo, of course you still only get 1 creature per usage 16:30:23 gammafunk: it needs work 16:30:58 dancing weapon (08() | Spd: 17 | HD: 15 | HP: 26 | AC/EV: 13/19 | Dam: 10 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1114 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:30:58 %??dancing weapon; rod of striking 16:31:01 Hmmm... I wonder how good that is for taking the time to get 27 evocations, if you only get a couple of them in total 16:31:08 SamB: do you think worth writing a proposal on the dev wiki? 16:31:15 seems that counts as a weapon 16:31:16 dancing weapon (07() | Spd: 19 | HD: 15 | HP: 5 | AC/EV: 2/20 | Dam: 1 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 697 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:31:16 %??dancing weapon ; sling 16:31:17 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:22 <3 16:31:54 gammafunk: I was just pointing out that "dancing weapon; potion of poison" crashes right now ;-) 16:31:58 mumra: Also, I sort of think it would be fun if it could produce monsters that were useful but which you could get from no other source 16:32:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:09 dancing weapon (07() | Spd: 18 | HD: 15 | HP: 26 | AC/EV: 13/19 | Dam: 10 | 11non-living, fighter, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1150 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:32:09 <|amethyst> %??dancing weapon; staff of death 16:32:15 I mean, hydras and anacondas ought to still be on the list, though 16:32:21 ASSERT(wpn) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4693 failed. 16:32:21 <|amethyst> %??dancing weapon; stone 16:32:26 ASSERT(wpn) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4693 failed. 16:32:26 %??dancing weapon; wand of hasting 16:32:27 SamB: oh :). Wouldn't dancing potions f mutations be lots of fun? 16:32:31 animated spellbooks with a single spell would be plausible 16:32:39 ASSERT(wpn) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 4693 failed. 16:32:39 <|amethyst> %??dancing weapon spells:simulacrum ; orc chunk 16:32:41 don't care for much else 16:32:42 <|amethyst> aww 16:32:44 DracoOmega: what other monsters are you thinking of? (of course it's super easy to tweak the list now anyway) 16:32:45 The animated spellbooks ought to have all the spells IN the spellbook :P 16:32:49 "dancing weapon ; lightning rod" just follows me around and bashes :( 16:33:05 thunderbolt isn't even a monster spell mister byte 16:33:10 kilobyte: aww :-( 16:33:17 tenofswords: it is 16:33:29 only if you use said rod 16:33:33 mumra: I am not sure. Like, I wonder if sphinxes would count as too smart to be in the box in the first place? :P 16:33:36 You yowl for attention! The orc shouts! 16:33:36 The orc zaps a rod. The lightning misses you. 16:33:39 monsters can use rods, dancing rods should use themselves 16:33:45 kilobyte: Maybe they're not smart enough to use it? 16:33:46 indeed 16:33:47 mumra: please add hell beasts 16:33:47 Not a monster spell: 'thunderbolt' 16:33:47 %??rat spells:thunderbolt 16:33:49 it's too perfect not to 16:33:58 Dancing scrolls of torment, silence, immolations that read themselves. The fun could be endless 16:34:08 Also I was planning to buff/revamp manticores, and they could make an interesting one then 16:34:12 b.lightning? 16:34:23 that is a completely seperate spell 16:34:55 elliott: but the extremely secret great tech of using enslavement with geryon's horn would be muted 16:35:33 Maybe you could kill the scrolls/potions before they activate, and then you'd get to keep them. 16:36:30 a scroll you whack with a sword is not really fit for using afterwards 16:36:56 Or throw a fireball at :P 16:37:46 -!- simmarine_ is now known as simmarine 16:37:52 -!- gammafunk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:03 unknown monster: "rat spell:lightning_bolt" 16:39:03 %??rat spell:lightning_bolt 16:39:11 >:Z 16:39:17 Z:< 16:40:00 @??rat spells:lightning_bolt 16:40:01 rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1 | Sp: b.lightning (3d10) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 16:40:14 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:50 -!- TZer0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:41 !tell mumra It works! I added a 0 to my flags in enum.h (and matched them in num.'s). Only my added cursor doesn't work in web tiles, but edlothiol said that would take some JS modifications for webtiles 16:41:42 gammafunk: OK, I'll let mumra know. 16:42:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:42:57 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:57 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:49 gammafunk: search for cursor in tileweb.cc and in cell_renderer.js 16:47:53 edlothiol: I see, ok thanks 16:48:09 gammafunk: actually, you probably don't need to change tileweb.cc at first 16:48:20 mainly you need to add the cursor in render_cursors 16:49:05 TilesFramework::initialize might need a new line for the cursor init? 16:49:45 elliott: hell beasts are in there 16:49:46 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:49:50 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:11 gammafunk: yes, and send_everything should send the cursor so that newly joining spectators also get it 16:50:12 i'm pushing all this to a branch, so people can let me know how crazy overpowered the starting rod is 16:50:17 edlothiol: also ... 16:50:28 yeah 16:50:41 New branch created: evoker-playstyle (8 commits) 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1118-g74ff824: Don't prevent monsters using rod of striking at close range 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74ff824b7f70 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1119-g0a463bf: New rod: Rod of Blasting 10(5 hours ago, 14 files, 63+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a463bfcf883 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1120-gefc1996: Change Artificer starting kit 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efc1996967d7 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1123-g46a2f6e: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:crawl/crawl into evoker-playstyle 10(5 hours ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46a2f6e30412 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1124-gedca55c: Allow mon-pick to be used with arbitrary pop_entry lists 10(30 minutes ago, 2 files, 29+ 23-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edca55c2ea45 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1125-gb5929a2: Improvements to Box of Beasts 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 53+ 30-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b5929a2bf186 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1126-g1bd9024: Remove Artificer's deck but set the Box of Beasts charges 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bd902402fd8 16:50:41 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1133-gbc49044: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:crawl/crawl into evoker-playstyle 10(2 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc4904433032 16:50:59 mumra: with a random cj rod, this might be a good place to implement elliptic's (IIRC) proposed fcloud rod nerf to "rod of clouds" giving a random cloud each time 16:51:13 I think I was planning to do that (but my patches are notorious for delays) 16:51:29 <|amethyst> kilobyte: is lava_djinn ready to put on a server? 16:51:34 elliott: that's quite nice, it's a bit similar to the wand bh was working on tho 16:51:36 mumra: also I hope you replaced striking with blasting 16:51:39 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:51:50 <|amethyst> kilobyte: in an experimental not-tracked-by-sequell branch that is 16:51:52 mumra: yes I think bh was inspired by it (the discussion happened before that), but I don't think it's suited to be a wand at all personally 16:52:02 elliott: although it could be the secondary spell of the blasting rod (which you won't be able to afford til you've recharged the rod a bit) 16:52:21 hmm 16:52:33 well i wanted to make another couple of rods anyway, i'll think about that one 16:52:51 well, random clouds is still very good, even if it's intended as a nerf of the existing rod cloud 16:52:55 s 16:52:57 need to work on the acid rod first tho :) 16:52:59 just having one spell is nicer interface also 16:53:02 yeah 16:53:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and if I wanted to combine several branches, would it be better to do sequential rebase/merges or an octopus merge? I have no experience with the latter 16:53:16 I think all of them should be one spell, and elliptic made steps towards that 16:53:36 I hear something about it being easier to replace rods than removing them so it seems like a good time to get rid of striking and the remaining multi-spell destruction rods and stuff :P 16:53:43 elliott: rod of striking is still there btw 16:54:04 elliott: this rod works exactly like that, it's just one spell, it fires a different random conj every time 16:54:11 |amethyst: you can't do an octopus if there are conflicts AFAIK 16:54:22 <|amethyst> kilobyte: oh 16:54:38 elliott: i'm not very good at removing things, maybe this will be good practice ;) 16:54:49 mumra: well, there's my fr, move the enum to where striking is :P 16:54:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I see... "This resolves cases with more than two heads, but refuses to do a complex merge that needs manual resolution." 16:55:14 elliott: yes but now i've added it, that would just be removing striking basically, and i heard removing rods is difficult 16:55:30 in Linux, conflicts are very rare; in Crawl they're pretty much a rule 16:55:30 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:55:31 mumra: well i think the problem is save compatibility or something 16:55:40 I don't know the details 16:55:40 at least for branches that each add a race 16:56:39 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:04 |amethyst: sequential merge 16:57:22 |amethyst: so what should we go with, trunk or that experimental branch? 16:58:13 -!- C7ty1 has quit [] 16:58:58 I guess this depends on how close Forest is to being ready for trunk 16:59:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: would any of the stuff require breaking compatibility to remove? 16:59:15 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:39 nothing that can't be fixed by making the djinn effectively humans on removal 16:59:55 <|amethyst> kilobyte: and removing a branch while people are in it? 17:00:34 <|amethyst> kilobyte: or, rather, marking it as unfinished while people are in it? 17:00:34 I don't see a complete removal, at most axing some design parts 17:00:36 branches are completely harmless: the entry is already generated 17:01:02 <|amethyst> I guess the biggest problem with races is random char? 17:01:11 I am pretty sure fauns are going to make nobody really play forest 17:01:17 ie, if entrance to Crypt is at -1 but entrance to Forest at V:3, then it will be placed, even if no entry vault exists 17:01:40 <|amethyst> and the fact that the bots need updates and have to keep the abbrevs around forever? 17:01:59 I'm not saying there's a need to merge it today, just asking whether it's better to test it in experimental or wait until they're trunk-worthy 17:02:28 For what it's worth, even if Forest eventually alternates with Crypt, I don't think it should to start with, since Crypt has so many changes that need testing, too 17:02:31 !lg * char=lopr 17:02:32 62. nogglebeak the Proselytiser (L1 LOPr), worshipper of Beogh, slain by a kobold (a +0,+0 elven short sword) on D:1 on 2011-07-02 00:30:38, with 35 points after 618 turns and 0:01:18. 17:02:43 So it seems sort of bad to only be able to test one of them at random per game 17:02:53 DracoOmega: Shoals were in trunk but not enabled for several releases 17:03:04 (Also, the entrance to Forest being IN Vaults feels a bit off to me anyway) 17:03:48 <|amethyst> I agree, but I worry about unforeseen implication of having alternating branches with two different parents 17:03:50 DracoOmega: that's not a problem at all: parent branch comes from a different source than being enabled or not 17:04:08 I didn't mean it was a technical problem, but I thought that was how it was currently implemented 17:04:46 a branch can be entered the normal way if it's entry depth is not -1 17:04:57 doesn't matter where that entry is 17:05:00 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:22 lemme check it, just to be sure 17:05:23 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:05:43 I mean, it's true that I have not looked at Forest closely yet, but when there was talk of it alternating with Crypt, I assumed that meant placing in the same place, too 17:06:30 yes, works 17:06:53 heck, other than initialise_branch_depths(), there's no connection between such pairs at all 17:07:07 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: that's what it does currently; I think kilobyte is saying that it could be easily changed 17:07:36 i like the idea of picking two out of Elf/Crypt/Forest 17:07:50 so Elf is entered from Orc, Forest could even be Lair:8 17:07:54 and Crypt from V 17:08:44 I kind of dislike current branch parents 17:08:46 and tomb from forest 17:08:59 While Lair makes thematic sense, I feel there's enough branches there already 17:09:02 Forest could just be late D 17:09:03 FWIW, i like alternating with crypt and i don't see why it should be tied to elf 17:09:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: aren't they mostly ancient? 17:09:17 Shoals or Spider don't fit the difficulty of Lair:3 at all 17:09:24 So? 17:09:27 alternation also makes sense if they get a rune :P 17:09:28 actually, all the lair subbranches have to start with S 17:09:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: when was the last topology change, ignoring new leaf nodes? 17:09:33 there is far too much stuff hanging off Lair 17:09:34 Sforest 17:09:44 Vaults from D fits well, so does Blade or Crypt 17:10:04 forest from elf? 17:10:05 I don't see that entry depth has to be directly tied to desired branch order or difficulty 17:10:10 |amethyst: never, I guess 17:10:14 elf from forest 17:10:18 orc on d:6 17:10:23 Yes, that is one case 17:10:31 ... we could randomise the parents a little bit each game ... 17:10:32 Or, say, you never want to enter Hell when you first reach the 20s 17:10:38 |amethyst: trimmed leaf nodes (hive) 17:10:39 DracoOmega: unless you're spoiled, you don't know entering that stair when you see it is suicide 17:10:40 mumra: I think that might be a bit confusing 17:10:42 elf from orc is kinda weird, anyway 17:10:55 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1134-gf152753: Migrate existing Boxes of Beasts with some charges 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1527532da13 17:10:55 03mumra 07[evoker-playstyle] * 0.13-a0-1135-gbd646e6: Give Box of Beasts a fixed 2/3 chance of success 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd646e69b5e2 17:10:57 DracoOmega: well the dungeon overview will help 17:11:09 the first few monsters in a lair branch should be enough warning 17:11:23 the first few deaths in a branch should be enough warning 17:11:29 elf has entry vaults explicitly designed around that also 17:11:30 Zannick: :p 17:11:32 mumra: So a branch could show with different parents, but you'd be told at the start of the game what its parents WERE? I don't really think I like that much. 17:11:34 since a merfolk or sea snake or whatever is tougher than your average lair monster (but not going to kill a character unless it is very bad) 17:11:37 =D 17:11:37 <|amethyst> Zannick: ah, right 17:12:00 DracoOmega: no it'd tell you the possible locations, until you've found the entrance 17:12:01 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:14 Really, I am not quite certain what problem we are trying to solve here 17:12:23 :) good point 17:12:23 Since, to me, it doesn't seem there currently is one 17:12:40 DracoOmega: killing n00bs for no reason 17:12:42 If it's 'new players don't know how dangerous X is', that goes for a lot of things they run into 17:12:52 Various ood spawns all over the place, say 17:13:05 And most definitely stepping into Shoals or something when you first see them is unlikely to end with instant death or anything 17:13:07 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:10 They're not THAT hard compared to their surroundings 17:13:14 oods are shown in red text on the monster pane 17:13:44 Not all red things are made equal. And if that's your argument, wouldn't the stuff in those branches show up similarly, and people would quickly get the impression that maybe they should leave? 17:13:46 presumably that will also apply to the monsters in a branch you are underleveled for 17:13:56 people are meant to die when learning the game unspoiled 17:14:00 that's sort of the point 17:14:05 and the philosophy docs explicitly say yes pretty much that 17:14:11 as long as you can actually learn from it 17:14:15 And really, the odds of dying for a brief dip into a Lair branch are actually not large 17:14:28 also newbies tend to like going into some new area and dying quickly from what i hear, it is exciting and stuff 17:14:33 can lamia spawn on snake 1? :P 17:14:34 Since the early levels of it are generally not full of horribly lethal things 17:14:39 evilmike: I think not 17:14:47 it's kind of funny how deadly she is 17:14:52 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:15:08 She seems to punish bad tactics a great deal more than many uniques do, for whatever reason 17:15:19 she is the third most lethal unique by killratio 17:15:20 punishes not being immortal 17:15:22 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:15:27 she's stuck to snake:2- though 17:15:36 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:15:37 bad tactics such as fighting her 17:15:41 !tell edlothiol thanks, those changes were all it took to get the cursor to work. hooray! 17:15:42 gammafunk: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 17:15:44 Well, I just mean in terms of her 'all players' vs. 'greatplayers' kill ratio, as compared to other uniques 17:16:00 that is probably because greatplayers know to never fight her :P 17:16:11 hmm, that would be good further stats to make some time 17:16:12 i think she just punishes you because she's pretty much dangerous in every single aspect, except base speed (but she can take care of that too) 17:16:59 elliott: I don't think it's as simple as that 17:17:08 regarding the reason this conversation happened: i would vote for "experimental" branch, it sets a good precedent, we can have completely unstable and unbalanced things in experimental to get playtesting and feedback, and trunk stays fairly stable just with features that are definitely going to be in the next release 17:17:13 Though I don't have a good answer for what it IS, either 17:17:13 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:17:44 mumra: "Definitely going to be" sets a fairly high bar 17:17:46 -!- Blade- has quit [Excess Flood] 17:17:53 I wouldn't want to encourage too much splitting of commits between them, probably 17:17:59 But I think the idea has merit in general 17:18:22 DracoOmega: ok "most likely are" rather than "definitely" 17:18:27 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:42 just dont get too focused on it if an experimental branch is made 17:18:57 i'd worry that players will switch to it instead of trunk, which would be really bad 17:19:01 Yes 17:19:16 basically, it's fine if you make a temporary experimental branch, but dump it as soon as it's no longer needed 17:19:19 That's part of what I mean. And also that devs will feel they need to push stuff to experimental instead of trunk, when previously trunk would have worked fine for it 17:19:19 evilmike: if that happens it means the experimental stuff is great and should just be merged anyway 17:19:30 "worry" or "sure"? 17:19:33 <|amethyst> mumra: or hideously overpowered :) 17:20:00 it's fine to experiment on trunk anyway 17:20:25 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:25 the fact that half the players on s-z are still playing 0.12 tells me that we wouldn't get everyone switching to "experimental" 17:20:36 it's the trunk players who might switch, not the 0.12 ones 17:20:41 Yeah 17:21:03 I'd probably rather an experimental branch, if there is to be one, have a fairly tightly defined experimental goal in mind 17:21:07 Rather than 'toss whatever in, whenever' 17:21:22 right, as soon as the goal is met, the branch is retired 17:21:25 we 17:21:30 ve sort of done this in the past 17:21:37 Yeah, I've seen it once or twice 17:21:44 the problem is that adding branches on the servers is nontrivial 17:21:48 <|amethyst> yeah 17:21:56 Is it? 17:22:06 <|amethyst> it at least requires a webtiles restart 17:22:43 That bit doesn't sound too bad? 17:22:51 Since it's not like adding them would be a common occurance 17:23:00 when lava orcs were tried last, they were linked to Sequell, so at least this part doesn't seem that bad 17:23:52 <|amethyst> it's not too bad for me... I'd just cherry-pick and edit the inception commits 17:24:11 <|amethyst> (to dgamelaunch-config) 17:24:13 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:41 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 17:25:04 Really, maybe trunk is still best in most cases, if we have a reversion plan for things we think have a decent chance of not landing 17:25:12 And only use an experimental branch if undoing it would be really hard? 17:27:16 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 17:28:08 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:31 <|amethyst> I would vote for putting these things in trunk, but for Forest that's up to Grunt 17:29:59 Hi (on another short break now). 17:30:01 eh, better to start testing a new branch earlier than later 17:30:07 I still say I'd rather not alternate just yet with another branch that is still in need of testing 17:30:17 <|amethyst> yeah 17:30:17 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:30:17 So that each gets half as much testing 17:30:35 it's bound to be broken and unbalanced at first, getting player feedback will speed things along 17:30:35 <|amethyst> I agree with DracoOmega re the branches 17:30:37 Forest is pretty much good to go now that everything has tiles. 17:30:42 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 17:30:45 is forest branch going to have a rune 17:30:46 nicolae-: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:30:46 <|amethyst> what about have both in trunk, with the understanding that they will alternate when the release comes? 17:30:49 DracoOmega is right about testing crypt as well. but we can use an alternate solution in the mean time 17:30:49 !messages 17:30:51 (1/2) tenofswords said (1h 23m 49s ago): I am going to make you eat your own liver for forgetting to extra tag all of your new decorative vaults 17:30:53 what amethyst said 17:30:57 Badtiles, but tiles nevertheless. 17:31:08 joke's on him, i ate my own liver years ago 17:31:08 !message 17:31:10 <|amethyst> this would imply no rune, but current forest doesn't have one so that's not a problem 17:31:10 !messages 17:31:11 (1/1) elliott said (1h 23m 9s ago): I'll have the leftovers 17:31:36 offer still stands 17:31:38 Incidentally, what do other people think about that idea of removing the demonic rune and giving Crypt/Forest one instead? 17:31:43 it kind of depends. For example, djinn might lose stuff such as hovering, or get EP rules completely upheaved, but I doubt they'd get removed completely. Lava orcs are quite likely to get renamed, but a complete removal is also unlikely. Branches are hard to remove without killing save compat but trivial to disable. 17:31:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:00 DracoOmega: that's a great idea! so great I could have thought of it myself! 17:32:04 Haha 17:32:10 I did before you did, anyway! :P 17:32:12 DracoOmega: i'd want crypt ends to be much harder, but a lot of them are kind of unfun anyway (including mine...) and need reworking with the new monsters 17:32:19 and having inoperative Shoals, Forest or Dwarf wasn't quite harmful in the past 17:32:22 the demonic rune sucks though, i wont be sad if it goes away 17:32:24 evilmike: I think we have someone willing to do that... 17:32:35 evilmike: And I feel the current monster set can definitely make a strong rune-worth branch 17:32:41 I'm not sure I'd call it "willing" 17:32:42 cool 17:32:52 Well, wasn't he ALREADY working on that? 17:32:52 how about "bound by fate" 17:33:13 evilmike: Also, I actually like the forest quite a lot, though many people dislike the trees 17:33:21 Possibly this would be fine if autoexplore was smarter about ignoring tjhem 17:33:24 the new crypt stuff does look very cool, and (relevantly) highly difficulty-increasing 17:33:29 down with Durkon! He's a vampire anyway now. 17:33:32 trees become like 10x less annoying when they are opaque.... 17:33:39 Yeah 17:33:46 Which is really a travel/autoexplore problem 17:33:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what happens if parent branches change while saves exist with chars in the children? 17:33:49 In my midn 17:33:50 DracoOmega: disliking the trees for the forest? <_< 17:34:00 does forest have the weird abyss-style shifting that was talked about for it? 17:34:03 rename it to the spriggan caves 17:34:13 elliott: No. 17:34:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:31 |amethyst: hmm right: the link won't get updated, so you'll land in a different place than you enter 17:34:41 I wonder how long it'll take 17:34:53 for people to condemn satyrs and fauns 17:34:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: could marshall that info 17:35:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: since we marshall depths already 17:35:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:35:20 or save every stairs destination inside 17:35:27 like portal vaults currently do 17:35:42 what do satyrs and fauns do 17:36:02 They hex you, and shoot you. 17:36:16 (And do not mesmerise you.) 17:36:54 I'm not sure if the current crypt ends are appropriate for rune vaults 17:37:12 actually, I have one objection to rotating forest with crypt: fewer vampire knight kills 17:37:19 * Grunt goes poof again. 17:37:29 * kilobyte sends Jory after elliott. 17:37:39 also i've kind of thought of tomb as the (triple size) crypt rune vault 17:37:46 elliott: make vampire knight vaults for Forest IMO. 17:37:53 Jory sucks so much that perhaps he could get staked? 17:38:10 anyway another choice would be, make forest alternate with elf, and use the elven rune of zot 17:38:15 Jory just needs to appear more somehow. 17:38:16 <|amethyst> Grunt: I think you poofed incorrectly :) 17:38:17 but i think elf would need a redesign in that case 17:38:23 well part of his problem is probably never generating and also only generating in a vault that makes him useless 17:38:23 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:33 elliott: Even 1/2 of Crypt will give more than oldcrypt, surely? :P 17:38:41 * Grunt really goes poof. 17:38:42 elliott: With the more vampire knights and phantasmal warriors to help them out 17:38:42 i was surprised to see that the elven rune of zot existed 17:38:59 Why DOESN'T Jory spawn normally, anyway? 17:39:05 It doesn't seem like there's a problem with him doing so 17:39:14 @??jory 17:39:15 Jory (04V) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 180 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 40, 1505(vampiric) | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(168), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5681 | Sp: crystal spear (3d37), mesmerise, blink close, vampiric draining | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:39:15 Like 'only works properly in this map' 17:39:20 In fact, kind of the opposite is true 17:39:24 in fact 17:39:24 yes 17:39:25 that! 17:39:35 jory is a strong unique but the problem is he is silenced 17:39:42 well, moderately strong 17:39:43 Reading his description would imply to me that it's a "flavour" reason 17:39:47 it is true that every branch needs three special uniques for it 17:39:49 It is bad flavor 17:39:52 yes it is 17:39:56 his melee could probably use a boost for where he places 17:39:56 we've established that 17:40:16 (maybe) 17:40:17 maybe just put some other powerful silence-proof monster in the tower of silence and then let jory roam free 17:40:19 I don't really see anything special to him, too 17:40:19 when did that get established? 17:40:19 40,15 isn't really weak 17:40:20 <|amethyst> st_: three special uniques? 17:40:20 I think maybe every branch breaks that rule :P 17:40:24 well he was more special before lamia stole his gimmick 17:40:32 He's still different enough 17:40:34 evilmike: forest establishes it!! 17:40:42 I like the mesm+blink close combination 17:40:45 you know there's a like 1/18 chance for jory to not get a silence vault at crypt's end 17:40:54 That's realatively new 17:40:55 -!- HDA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:41:02 elliott: what do you have against the strong silenced type? 17:41:05 And I didn't think it was even that high? 17:41:06 it's been around at least two versions 17:41:10 Oh, really? 17:41:18 I have never seen it, nor heard of anyone actually getting it, I think :P 17:41:20 I saw him unsilenced in Crypt once yes 17:41:27 He's.... still not impressive really 17:41:37 Well, he got buffed more recently 17:41:38 but like you do have to at least notice he's there 17:41:43 By not having so little hp, and more damage 17:41:50 Well, 'recently' as in like 4 or 5 months ago, I think 17:41:53 i buffed him by removing brain feed 17:42:00 that was the true buff 17:42:21 1/5, 4/15, 1/2 17:42:48 2.6% okay nevermind that barely exists 17:43:19 1/18 would've implied someone else seeing him at some point, I guess 17:43:35 I don't think it was buffed Jory either, so perhaps I can't really comment on effective 17:43:43 !killratio jory 17:43:45 jory wins 0.147% of battles. 17:43:49 Sad, isn't it? 17:44:02 make him appear earlier. 17:44:04 d:3 17:44:10 Well, just make him appear would be a start 17:44:14 sad? Very weak uniques get ten times that. 17:44:20 well 17:44:22 That is why it is sad 17:44:25 !killratio maud 17:44:27 maud wins 1.569% of battles. 17:44:37 really unique killratio depends on how early they generate 17:44:38 by the way want to hear my stupid idea for making the stone of tremors more powerful? 17:44:39 He gets no kills because he is a powerful spellcaster who starts off silenced 17:44:43 LRD everything in sight. 17:44:44 !killratio me 17:44:44 all of it 17:44:46 No battles for me. 17:44:47 Hahaha 17:44:50 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:53 !killratio xom 17:44:55 Interesting 17:44:55 xom wins 99.99% of battles. 17:45:01 lol 17:45:08 so like even if Jory did appear unsilenced he might not do better than Maud since he presumably would also appear fairly deep 17:45:10 what happens the other 0.01% 17:45:18 Xom got bored and left 17:45:19 !lm * uniq=xom 17:45:24 No milestones for * (uniq=xom). 17:45:25 did xomscumming with against xom 17:45:26 swiss: lernaean hydra and cerebov are in top 15 killratios 17:45:27 shouldn't it say sqrt(-1) or "banana"? 17:45:29 win* 17:45:39 (also lamia) 17:45:39 kilobyte: totally lenses 17:45:42 is there a list of killratios 17:45:55 yes, but those are all uniques with very little incentive to fight them (another way killratio is screwy) 17:45:55 +1 to Xom wins sprt(-1)% of battles :P 17:46:10 !killratio beogh 17:46:12 No battles for beogh. 17:46:24 !killratio sigmund 17:46:27 sigmund wins 28.47% of battles. 17:46:34 now that's menacing 17:46:35 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:46:41 you can just steal Cerebov's rune, dodge Lamia (and you should because she's way the hell out of line compared to almost every other unique I can think of) 17:46:50 !killratio Lamia 17:46:50 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:52 Lamia wins 15.94% of battles. 17:47:11 and you can really just not fight the hydra either 17:47:18 oh right I was told it'd be a good idea to make learnaean appear rarely in the other standard swamp ends 17:47:26 Yes, that sounds reasonable to me 17:47:27 !killratio lernean hydra 17:47:28 No battles for lernean and hydra. 17:47:32 !killratio murray 17:47:34 murray wins 0.253% of battles. 17:47:36 As opposed to just the one specific vault 17:47:36 !killratio lernean_hydra 17:47:37 maybe I should go do that right now except nobody is pushing my last patch 17:47:38 No battles for lernean_hydra. 17:47:46 !killratio Lernaean_hydra 17:47:46 <|amethyst> !killration lernaean_hydra 17:47:49 Lernaean_hydra wins 0.0% of battles. 17:47:56 killration 17:47:58 o__O 17:48:01 !cmd killration 17:48:02 No command killration 17:48:03 might need the number of heads 17:48:09 oh i thought that was a response 17:48:11 murray doesnt really kill you on his own. but he torments you when you're being swarmed by demons 17:48:12 I seem to recall this being a sticking point 17:48:14 !killratio 27-headed_Lernaean_hydra 17:48:16 No battles for 27-headed_Lernaean_hydra. 17:48:28 what unique has the highest kill ratio 17:48:28 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:38 !lg * ckiller=~lernaean_hydra 17:48:39 145. heteroy the Shatterer (L19 OgBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on Swamp:5 (swamp_old_school) on 2013-05-27 05:03:31, with 189880 points after 45075 turns and 3:06:38. 17:48:47 !lm * uniq=~lernaean_hydra 17:48:47 1709. [2013-05-29 22:13:37] Sobieck00 the Merry Centaur (L20 CeHu) killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on turn 56226. (Swamp:5) 17:48:49 st_: Incidentally, I feel a bit like the curse skulls that you replaced the spooky statues with in the Crypt forest end are a lot strong/more annoying than the statues were, and make that corner of it a bit awkward in comparison 17:49:09 woh, the hydra has almost 10% wins 17:49:16 can I replace them with revenants 17:49:31 that is probably true, as far as I'm concerned there no reason to go there either way 17:50:03 Well, revenants would play rather differently, but I think most things would probably play better than two curse skulls right there in hard to reach places 17:50:52 that part could just be removed 17:50:57 I didn't actually mind it with the haunt statues 17:51:20 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:28 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:18 I find myself wondering what would happen if we made curse skulls a lot less insanely durable, and gave them haunt instead of summon undead? (And maybe slowed them a little, I don't know) 17:52:28 DracoOmega: have you seen oldcrawl curse skulls 17:52:38 they are excellent and as far as i am concerned dcss should copy them wholesale 17:52:38 No. What did they do? 17:52:44 well they effectively head haunt 17:52:48 their summon undead summoned dudes around you 17:52:51 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:52:54 haunt would probably be better just because its targeted 17:52:55 and also they could move 17:52:55 Oh, hmmm 17:52:58 silver statues work the same way 17:53:22 Well, summon undead around the player is probably harder to dig yourself out of than haunt 17:53:23 were ghouls removed from summon undead 17:53:26 Yes 17:53:28 basically they swarmed you, I have no idea how they got made useless over the years 17:53:31 it was great 17:53:34 -!- Blazinghand_ is now known as Blazinghand 17:53:42 elliott: Well, they also used to be silencable 17:53:42 maybe some of it was crawl-alternative's doing 17:53:43 the "fun" part about that is that haunt would probably still do what summon undead does for them right now (make it hard to actually get at them), but also actually attack the player while doing so 17:53:46 with the new clear directive and the new monsters i'm thinking about some crypt vaults 17:53:56 elliott: they also summoned liches 17:54:12 oh btw if anyone wants to make jory different from lamia, maybe he could be the unique with mesmerize and malign gateway...... 17:54:22 SwissStopwatch: Well, I'd like to make them less durable in the process, since killing them often takes a lot of running and retreating as they spam stuff at you and that's kind of anoying 17:54:28 st_: mmm 17:54:30 I forgot about that 17:54:32 add that too plz 17:54:34 And it would be nice to incentivize actually killing them 17:54:37 summon revenants???? 17:54:53 it's annoying enough that I like to just not deal with them by either letting them guard whatever they're guarding, or just run by them 17:55:11 Well, the thing is if they are still stationary, I think they should also be less annoying to kill in the way that they are 17:55:23 DracoOmega: btw, I like how jiangshi build upon the new vampire theme of sort of swiftly getting at you 17:55:25 Since it's really desireable to just ignore them 17:55:25 This mostly just changes that by making them more capable of actually killing people 17:55:30 which might be good 17:55:42 "have curse skulls guard the stairs down" 17:56:02 At least that's my suspicion of what would happen 17:56:03 Well, if you changed nothing else BUT give them haunt instead of summon undead, all that will do is make autoexploring into them sometimes more scary, and otherwise leave things the same 17:56:08 Which I am not convinced is a great change on its own 17:56:11 I think all else being equal they should move unless they have a reason not to, since immobile monsters are generally problematic 17:56:11 pretty much 17:56:20 but admittedly if they summon things around you then they're at least not made pathetic by not moving 17:56:25 By itself it doesn't sound too impactful except for maybe being a bit more lethal 17:56:31 Well, I like immobile monsters in general as guards, but I actually find these ones more annoying than most 17:56:46 Possibly because they can't currently really KILL you, but can still force you to run away over and over again 17:56:51 Since they have no direct damage 17:57:01 Yet are hard to kill and make lots of meat shields 17:57:07 curse toe already exists as the (slowly) moving version of curse skulls, at least 17:57:16 Well, it tends to be less dangerous 17:57:19 Due to mushrooms 17:57:20 I find 17:57:22 lower curse skull ac 17:57:26 Yes, their AC is insane 17:57:31 40? 17:57:38 curse skull (11z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 66 | AC/EV: 40/3 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1810 | Sp: summon undead, torment symbol | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 17:57:38 %??curse_skull 17:57:41 almost as durable as a bush 17:57:44 while also letting them move as such 17:57:49 have more curse body parts. skulls, toes, rib cages, arms, fingers, spleens. 17:57:55 Maybe I should give them lost soul ally-seeking behavior? :P 17:57:56 curse toe is maybe a little dangerous if you try to kill it on a character that shouldn't necessarily bother 17:58:01 curse appendix 17:58:07 curse hearts 17:58:18 permableed 17:58:24 if anything their health should be lowered 17:58:28 since it's also faster and more durable, so you can at least maybe get the freak double torment occasionally 17:59:29 curse skulls should have haunt and be invisible. 17:59:46 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:54 Like, maybe they should just get some slow movement, such that it could be easy enough to get away from them for the moment, but unless you actually KILL them they'll just keep stalking you 17:59:56 you should be able to stub curse toes for extra damage 18:00:09 a stationary enemy with permainvis sounds like a combination of novel and annoying 18:00:22 wandering mushroom for curse skulls 18:00:30 Zannick: except, stubbing skill got removed 18:00:30 give them permainvis *and* blink 18:00:36 mushroom AI rather 18:00:43 tenofswords: i actually kind of like that 18:00:48 how about do that + make them fast (like flying skulls) 18:00:55 SwissStopwatch: Angband has the monopoly on stationary invisible blinking teleporting summoners 18:01:07 sounds like angband 18:01:15 tenofswords: I think I like that too, yes 18:01:19 Always stalking you 18:01:20 "Angband" tells me that it's annoying 18:01:23 As if you were... cursed 18:01:30 ahem, ahem 18:01:35 If you do that with curse skulls it seems weird for curse toes to also exist separately 18:01:47 (Should "Angband" not be telling me that) 18:01:48 I think it was kind of weird for them to exist anyway, to be honest >.> 18:01:59 it's possible that that was already true, sure 18:02:06 Of course, where does this leave Murray? 18:02:08 The old tile for curse toes was the best. 18:02:18 Since his gimmick was 'curse skull that moved' 18:02:24 unique is unique, although..... yeah, that 18:02:35 He would need SOME kind of change if he was to stay 18:02:44 deep elf death mage (16e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 52-82 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1570 | Sp: b.draining (3d19), vampiric draining, call lost soul, twisted resurrection | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:02:44 %??deep elf death mage 18:02:53 give him call lost soul how annoying could that get 18:03:02 completely useless in vestibule 18:03:11 all those living things in vestibule 18:03:14 no to revive _him_ 18:03:17 ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 600: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) 18:03:17 %??Lost soul 18:03:19 hahaha 18:03:21 bogus 18:03:25 That could be really annoying :P 18:03:28 DracoOmega: he could have another summon 18:03:29 (but there are actually other things in vestibule too) 18:03:36 Yeah, another summon seems simplest 18:03:39 like say, summon alich. 18:03:40 Greater demon? :P 18:03:42 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:48 summon curse skulls 18:03:49 Like Weakryon 18:03:54 he shouldnt upstage geryon 18:03:54 shadow creatures 18:03:57 btw late D should have lich packs. let it be known. 18:03:59 summon geryon 18:04:02 ^ 18:04:05 evilmike: Well, he's so rarely there anyway 18:04:07 clearly make Murray able toinvoke hell effects 18:04:08 convoker's recall 18:04:15 1.1 makes it clear that late D is supposed to be entirely L 18:04:23 rwbarton can verify 18:04:34 i have no idea what you just said :P 18:04:49 D:33 is entirely liches 18:04:53 who was that guy who met a pack of liches led by an alich on D:6 ? 18:04:58 you mean crawl 1.1, from like, 1998? 18:05:02 yeah 18:05:05 what was the spellset for those, st_ 18:05:09 yes, me and rwbarton ported it to linux 18:05:12 it's pretty great 18:05:33 So would these mobile curse skulls still have haunt instead of summon undead? 18:05:47 (curse fingers, which I can pretend are like the bottom center right of http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unix-system-administration-handbook-evi-nemeth/1101637111?ean=9780130206015) 18:05:48 the dungeon has entrances to hell which take you to dis, and then dis has an entrance to hell, and then in hell there's a Fiend (glyph "F") guarding the orb 18:05:50 tenofswords: I think the bolt of cold one, it impossible to try and look in the code for it though 18:06:22 the nicest thing about it is that it has some of the worst code I've ever seen, so we had no spoilers to go by whatsoever 18:06:59 Haha 18:07:01 s|curse fingers|fickle finger of f8| 18:07:03 elliott: haha yeah, I love the magic numbers 18:07:19 only if it's flying :p 18:07:59 evilmike: i like how in the readme linley mentions wanting to find out what enums and structs are 18:08:14 well of course it flies how else do these curse things move 18:08:51 when there's no adventurers around they get one of the other monsters to pick them up and carry them around 18:08:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:09:01 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:02 -!- jday_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:23 don't you mean their summons 18:09:26 enums, structs, and pointers 18:09:38 curse toe (08z) | Spd: 12 (move: 200%) | HD: 14 | HP: 77 | AC/EV: 50/1 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 7890 | Sp: summon undead, mushrooms, torment symbol | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 18:09:38 %??curse toe 18:09:39 summons, sure 18:09:50 tenofswords: seems to say here that they, uh, levitate? 18:10:34 almost the same thiong 18:10:56 should introduce monster directional LOS for curse skulls and have them slowly rotate around 18:10:58 I didn't know it was still allowed 18:11:10 FR: tanks 18:12:00 <|amethyst> SamB: FL_LEVITATE still exists, but it's referred to as such in game 18:12:20 <|amethyst> SamB: I guess I could have monster say "wings" and "fly" instead 18:12:42 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:44 <|amethyst> s/it's refer/it's not refer/ 18:12:55 -!- lordfrikk_ is now known as lordfrikk 18:13:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:21 st_: animate that rotation by making them change from Z to N and back 18:18:08 whoops, this hidden chamber in quadcrypt has four flayed ghosts and two phantasmals now 18:18:21 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:18:30 st_: you mean, like in Gruesome? 18:20:34 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:22 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:21:51 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:23:41 I've played some games with player directional los, it's pretty bad 18:24:09 odd, church_of_pain doesn't place much in all of these level generations 18:24:13 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 18:25:25 -!- caleba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:28 st_: you don't like FPSes? 18:26:14 to look at something is to shoot it 18:27:33 <|amethyst> tenofswords: is that an upgrade to Google Glass? 18:27:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:06 |amethyst: you don't want Google wired up to that 18:29:22 pew pew 18:29:30 yay megaman 18:29:31 google war (beta) 18:29:37 The Glassilisk gazes at you! You resist. 18:29:44 no that's just every fps's philosophy 18:30:17 they release it and it's great, half the world's militaries adopt it. Then out of nowhere, they decide to drop the service and millions of people die 18:30:34 <|amethyst> evilmike: wouldn't that mean millions of people live instead? 18:30:47 |amethyst: that's if EVERYONE adopts it 18:30:52 <|amethyst> hehe 18:30:55 and has no manual weapons 18:31:28 of course, rumour has it that Google is no longer serious about their "don't be evil" motto 18:31:53 so I wouldn't really recommend trusting them with that sort of firepower in the first place ... 18:31:57 <|amethyst> wasn't there an SMBC about something similar? 18:32:20 you don't need to trust them when their software is so convenient... 18:32:22 <|amethyst> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2193 18:32:53 so any thoughts on what I quickly cobbled together in http://sprunge.us/KFdI 18:32:56 it was more convenient before it got so bloated 18:33:00 I mean, sure, putting all our military resources in their hands would be a global security risk. but they just make it so easy 18:33:23 lol 18:33:46 imagine google street view from all the world's tanks; google docs for your top secert files; google earth for pointing targets for bombing runs ... 18:33:59 ...although I missed adding ancient champions to elkab's ever so wonderful skeletal warrior spam I am getting very tired of skeletal warriors in vault definition 18:34:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:39 -!- g4spr0m has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:40:19 -!- lion_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:41:30 -!- Helmschank has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:10 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:29 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:48:51 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:52:40 * tenofswords coughs 18:54:23 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 18:54:54 are you choking 18:55:00 *casts Heimlich on tenofswords* 18:55:47 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:45 I was hoping I could just get in patches quickly by linking them here but I _guess_ it's more formal to actually mantis things 18:57:07 you can get patches in faster by owning some developer's permissions 18:57:10 >.> 18:57:30 I think I have discouraged that 18:57:32 just slightly 18:58:03 tenofswords: just pushed 18:58:11 i am trusting that it doesn't break everything 18:58:37 zomg so much trust 18:58:44 mumra, i've been messing with the new artificer thing and it is pretty fun 18:58:51 wait what 18:58:53 cool 18:58:58 I was waiting for feedback 18:59:08 what artificer thing 18:59:08 tenofswords: i mean i pushed the earlier one 18:59:11 oh 18:59:25 lainiw: i think it was slightly more fun when it still had the deck of escape but still :) 18:59:48 the vaults do highlight a certain concern but it'll take forever to address so whatever 19:01:07 tenofswords: what sort of vaults is there a need for, currently 19:01:27 "fix up all of the current vaults there are too many problems with everything" 19:01:30 err 19:01:35 ah 19:01:49 since I can't possibly trust you with that... 19:01:54 you know, a few weeks ago i was scrolling through some of the existing vaults and noticed a few places where there were pretty clearly typos 19:01:55 :( 19:02:01 03HangedMan 07* 0.13-a0-1126-gfad6448: CLEAR practice: consolidate several Lair vaults 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 135+ 288-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fad644818c9b 19:02:27 nicolae-: i made a reworked artificer starting kit with a new rod, and an overhauled box of beasts, instead of two of the wands 19:02:30 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:44 mumra, what do you think of making the rod start with a +1 enchantment so if the player finds a scroll of recharging and uses it on the rod, they are guaranteed to be able to now get two uses out of it 19:02:46 cool, what's the rod 19:02:46 while I'd love to hear about said typos I guess the biggest thing I think of that would be nice is another vestibule 19:02:50 consecutively 19:03:13 oh wait not +1 ench but rather give it 5 starting mp 19:03:22 yeah i was thinking of making a list of the typos and proposing corrections BUT i got sidetracked, presumably by something shiny in my peripheral vision 19:03:27 vestibule, huh 19:03:28 althogh the rod is pretty good it seems 19:03:43 pretty minimal randomization with the everything 19:04:07 wide open spaces and specific theme sets, surely this easily makes up for making an encompass vault 19:04:17 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:32 hmmm, i'll give it a shot, sure 19:04:55 lainiw: that's a possibility, sure. i was also thinking of lowering the mp cost to 2 and removing fireball from the list, since it's a bit too good really 19:05:04 not really a lot of variety in the existing two layouts, it seems 19:05:12 altho the good thing about meph/fireball is they make a lot of noise 19:05:36 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 19:06:00 could apply a reduction on the effective spell power as well to make it a bit weaker but with two blasts 19:06:56 nicolae-: it's a rod of blasting, at the moment it starts with other enough max power to get one shot out of it, but it fires a random low-level conjuration 19:07:06 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:07:06 stuff like throw flame / throw frost 19:07:13 cool 19:07:14 so it's like a random effects wand but a bit more reliable 19:07:18 what's changed about the box of beasts 19:07:31 the beasts scale up with you evo skill 19:07:45 so at low evo you get rats/bats, at 27 evo you get sphinxes and hell beasts 19:07:51 noice 19:07:59 and they're always friendly 19:08:14 and it has a fixed number of charges instead of sometimes disappearing after 2 goes 19:08:40 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 19:08:49 what, no death yaks 19:09:01 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:09:08 there are yaks but i missed death yaks 19:09:13 the list isn't finalised anyway 19:09:46 tenofswords: would it be acceptable to also make some variants of the subvaults for the mu vestibule 19:10:16 sure 19:10:22 what are subvaults for 19:10:38 -!- Nikolaos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:49 this is the box of beasts list: http://sprunge.us/NGHQ 19:11:02 if anyone wants to fill in the gaps or suggest tweaks go for it 19:11:13 the first two numbers are the evo range between which you can get the monster 19:11:28 ??herd card 19:11:29 herd card[1/1]: Temporarily summons between 2 and 8 animals (sometimes varied, sometimes all the same), the number and chance of hostility based on power. Animals are: bumblebee, war dog, sheep, yak, hog, soldier ant, wolf, grizzly bear, polar bear, black bear, giant snail, boring beetle, gila monster, komodo dragon, spiny frog, hound. 19:11:47 wow this might be a bit old 19:11:51 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:12:00 blink frogs should go in somewhere, i think 19:12:18 i'm not sure if i'd call them "beasts" 19:12:44 i kind of want to make another item called Bag of Bugs 19:12:48 which would be more insect-themed 19:12:59 should include bats 19:13:01 <|amethyst> we already have rod of swarm 19:13:08 yeah true 19:13:34 raven, wvyern, basilisk, hippogriff, griffon, rare catoblepas at the top, 19:13:36 a special item that evokes wild, fantastic monsters that aren't generated any other way 19:13:43 "chimera" 19:13:58 <|amethyst> sphinx sounds kind of wrong because of its intelligence 19:14:04 put a tiny chance for a dragon at only 27 evocations 19:15:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:13 alligator? 19:15:39 sphinx was DracoOmega's suggestion, he thought it'd be good to have some unusual things you couldn't get any other way 19:15:43 bears 19:15:46 but yeah maybe that could be a different item 19:16:01 box of giants 19:16:23 box of holies 19:16:26 <|amethyst> mumra: hellephant :) 19:16:32 haha yes 19:16:39 summon hellspider 19:16:41 -!- johlstei__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:47 <|amethyst> or apis depending on your god 19:16:53 yeah 19:16:57 it already has a check for that 19:16:58 would drakes work 19:17:03 <|amethyst> hell beast needs an alternative, too 19:17:14 so i can just stick them both in and it'll pick whichever ones fit 19:17:18 maybe holy swine? 19:17:20 buff phoenix and stuff it in 19:17:29 put in regular hogs too 19:17:32 (why are phoenix weaker than harpies in damage) 19:17:39 basically just copy and paste http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Category:Animal_intelligence imo 19:17:42 <|amethyst> probably neutral would be better 19:17:52 sky beasts 19:17:54 <|amethyst> err, natural 19:18:04 ewwwww, you haven't been ctrl-f I_ANIMAL in mon-data.h? 19:18:13 pft 19:18:52 summon krakens if you're near water 19:18:53 the holy version of hell hog: holy cow 19:19:04 >:| 19:19:12 there's already holy swine 19:19:27 helltuna and holy mackerel 19:19:35 <|amethyst> there are already holy cows too 19:19:38 apis (16Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 100-140 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 4008(holy) | 08holy | Res: 06magic(106), 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1769 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 19:19:38 <|amethyst> %??apis 19:19:52 so boringggggg 19:20:18 needs vampiric melee that heals all other holies in los instead 19:20:25 unknown monster: "json" 19:20:25 %??json 19:20:39 unknown monster: "xmpp" 19:20:39 %?? xmpp 19:20:42 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 19:23:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:03 vestibule design: should it be completely open except near the entrances or are a few pillars here and there okay 19:24:14 latter would be a welcome change 19:24:20 noted 19:24:44 put a disco ball by the pillars 19:24:57 festibule 19:25:07 for pillar dancing 19:27:01 -!- Flun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:11 one of the few good moments in shiren 3 and one of the most striking level themes I've seen in a roguelike was in a big demonic festival 19:28:20 wish I could successfully evoke that stuff 19:28:40 try &S 19:28:45 -!- pubby has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:29:46 hurr hurr 19:30:29 -!- lion has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:30:33 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:41 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 19:31:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:38:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:06 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:03 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:53 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:17 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:46:00 -!- HOprNewb has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:46:18 !messages 19:46:19 No messages for gammafunk. 19:47:05 when are we doing that beogh thing 19:47:44 where you get to worship him pretty well guarenteed and stuff 19:51:04 -!- Adder_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:02 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:06 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:59 mumra: sack of spiders > bag of bugs 20:01:51 -!- namad8 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:04:32 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:53 bag of bugs sounds like something crawl would substitute for an unknown misc object 20:06:01 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:32 probably crash if you were holding it, too 20:06:45 or even if it found one in the dungeon 20:07:18 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:37 <|amethyst> you'd need "buggi" or "buggy" to get an error message 20:08:43 <|amethyst> %git :/Skybugg 20:08:44 07|amethyst * 0.11-a0-2947-g3588bfa: Don't treat "Skybugg" and "Foobola" as buggy. 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3588bfac9baa 20:08:57 <|amethyst> (the former actually occurred in a game) 20:08:58 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:10:08 lol 20:10:15 |amethyst: and we're careful not to ever generate that with our random name generation 20:10:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 20:10:18 thats not quite an epic_bug but it's still excellent 20:12:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:13 -!- BonSequitur has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:17:21 I really like this cave city (or whatever it is) new layout 20:17:32 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17:38 whoever made that did good :) 20:18:26 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:19:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:50 mumra: you probably did good 20:23:38 everyone else also done good, I never used to play trunk, but I'm really enjoying it now 20:23:47 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:02 -!- SamB has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:24:06 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 20:26:32 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:39 -!- Liimbo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:30:32 -!- kickascii has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:31:31 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31:40 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 20:33:24 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:29 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:45 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:53 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 20:40:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:47:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:25 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49:35 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 20:49:56 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:44 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:21 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:06 lava djinn? :o 20:56:47 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:22 should have been molten gargoyles 20:58:13 i hope it works out well, i wish i had time to play... 21:01:54 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:21 <|amethyst> hm 21:04:02 <|amethyst> looks like kilobyte left the MONS_LAVA_ORC enum in the middle? 21:04:59 !tell kilobyte i did start a rebase of lorcs to improve code quality at https://github.com/Eronarn/Crawling-Chaos/tree/lorc_rebase_bh_wip you might have better luck using that in lava djinn branch (though it doesn't compile currently) 21:05:00 Eronarn: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 21:05:07 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 21:07:55 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:52 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:38 -!- Silurio1 is now known as Silurio 21:10:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:38 -!- hart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:14 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:22:51 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:54 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:03 -!- dupo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:38 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:28 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:59 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:18 <|amethyst> so 21:30:37 <|amethyst> if we're going to have both forest and crypt temporarily 21:30:38 <|amethyst> where should Tomb be? 21:30:51 -!- Alexor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:54 What's wrong with where it's always been? 21:31:02 in crypt and forest, presumably 21:31:11 elliott: what, BOTH? 21:31:21 oh 21:31:26 "both" as in two entrances 21:31:33 I meant for rotation 21:31:49 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: will anyone have a reason to do forest? 21:31:59 xp and loot? 21:32:00 <|amethyst> loot I guess 21:32:03 <|amethyst> yeah 21:32:05 Well, probably the fact that it is new will cause people to do it, but having it on rotation also makes sense, I guess 21:32:41 Will make all-rune speedrunning harder for the duration, though! :P 21:32:47 * Grunt appears! 21:32:49 I think rotation makes the most sense long-term (especially with rune talk) but two entries as a temporary thing seems workable too 21:33:04 <|amethyst> elliott: two entries isn't easy to do implementation-wise 21:33:10 though I don't think there's any worry of the crypt stuff not being tested enough with rotation 21:33:15 Mm? 21:33:24 It would be extremely easy to place both a Forest and a Crypt entrance. 21:33:32 since people do crypt regularly as a routine thing and are more likely to do it with fancy new stuff 21:33:37 <|amethyst> Grunt: right, I'm doing that 21:33:46 that is what i meant by two entries 21:33:47 <|amethyst> Grunt: the question is, where should the Tomb entrance be in that case 21:33:52 Crypt! 21:33:52 crypt... 21:33:57 am I missing something? :P 21:34:18 Obviously Tomb should be in Sewer 21:34:19 and then if crypt and forest get put into rotation later then it just needs tomb entry vaults for forest 21:34:37 <|amethyst> I thought there might be some desire to test such entry vaults before they go into rotation 21:34:47 one thing about having both of them is that it increases the amount of XP around vaults even more 21:34:51 Some of the Tomb entry vaults for Crypt don't look *too* out of place; it gives it kind of a temple feeling. 21:34:55 Entry vaults usually don't need a lot of testing 21:34:56 But I agree that Forest could use Tomb entries if we do that. 21:34:57 which is a point in favour of rotation from the start 21:35:03 Since they tend to be small and not-highly-dangerous 21:35:27 so what would the runes be called, anyway? :P 21:35:32 there's already the mossy rune in zotdef right? 21:35:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:40 having both seems weird if they are planned to rotate 21:35:47 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:35:57 how about an evergreen rune 21:36:13 mosy rune and cobwebbed rune?? 21:36:13 since it would make balance testing on either branch a lot less useful 21:36:18 *mossy 21:36:18 <|amethyst> hm 21:36:29 if one is done with all of the xp from the other 21:36:30 everyone loves a good bikeshed painting session 21:36:48 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: the argument in favour is that we want newcrypt to get testing, and removing it from half of games could hinder that 21:37:01 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:01 <|amethyst> but that's a good point 21:37:02 well you want forest to get tested too right 21:37:07 sure but testing it with a full branch's extra xp sounds unhelpful 21:37:12 they're both roughly equally new after all 21:37:24 and it's not like there's a shortage of trunk games or whatever, and 0.13 is early in its release cycle 21:37:26 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: thoughts on MarvinPA's objection? 21:37:29 obviously we skip releasing 0.13 and switch to 0.14 when we go alternating 21:37:44 Well, it does make sense, I guess 21:37:46 oh, oh: clearly the crypt rune should be the cryptic rune 21:37:59 cryptic71 isn't it 21:38:13 Though people do Crypt at really variable times now anyway, I think 21:38:23 Like, I've seen people in there at xl 16-ish and 27, just in the past two days 21:38:24 You see here a cryp71c rune of Zot. 21:38:33 -!- nickajeglin has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:38:56 So probably in either case you will see people doing it with vastly differing amounts of xp 21:38:57 DracoOmega: that's the way with most branches after orc 21:38:57 we don't even have to aim forest for 0.13 necessarily, it could go into rotation and then taken out again if it seems like crypt needs more attention 21:39:06 xl 27 crypts are probably people going to tomb 21:39:13 Nah, not from what I saw 21:39:18 ok then, crazy people 21:39:25 Maybe! But these people are still playing Crawl :P 21:39:27 <|amethyst> elliott: people who just switched to TSO 21:39:29 <|amethyst> maybe 21:39:34 Yes, at least one case was that 21:39:34 MarvinPA: I just meant for the balance-testing portion we could use a new version number or something 21:39:36 |amethyst: those people should be going to do tomb :P 21:39:51 I guess dates would work though anyway 21:40:25 <|amethyst> I could tag -a1 :) 21:40:38 does that show up in sequel 21:40:41 Sequell: 21:40:45 whatever you spell it 21:40:51 <|amethyst> !lg * x=v,cv 21:40:52 2335966. [v=0.13.0-a0;cv=0.13-a] braversleet the Insei (L4 DrMo), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, blasted by an orc wizard (magic dart) on D:3 on 2013-05-30 02:40:35, with 123 points after 2052 turns and 0:10:46. 21:41:26 okay, so -a1 would work fine then 21:41:27 Like, I do see the issues with having an extra branch's worth of xp for the game itself, though I am not sure how much that will affect either Crypt or Forest testing directly, since they are done at all kinds of different times anyway 21:41:38 and be a lot less work to explain in he changelog 21:41:56 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:18 DracoOmega: also I think people might be more likely to do forest if it rotates with crypt (although they'll probably do it because it's new anyway) 21:42:27 because otherwise they'll be missing out on xp/items they'd get from crypt normally 21:42:44 <|amethyst> encounter fauns.... "There's no rune here? Screw this." 21:43:00 sounds like fauns should be fixed :P 21:43:07 alternatively, could implement the rune thing at the same time!! 21:43:18 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:32 -!- ackack has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:42 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1126-gfad6448 21:43:45 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:48 Monster 'rat' can't use items. 21:43:48 %?? rat; mossy rune of zot 21:43:53 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:43:53 %?? orc; mossy rune of zot 21:43:54 <|amethyst> hm 21:44:14 i've completed the forest twice, as a mibe and fefe, the items in the final vault should be enough encouragement to play it.. all the spriggans seemed to get very good weapons 21:44:27 "all" = most i guess 21:46:15 I think there are many reasons people will do it anyway, yes. But honestly I wouldn't be adverse to trying to enable that rune thing early, too 21:46:31 <|amethyst> what would the rune alternate with? 21:46:41 Well, Forest/Crypt was the idea 21:46:47 <|amethyst> so 16 runes? 21:46:58 <|amethyst> score inflation 21:47:01 Well, the original idea involved removing the demonic rune 21:47:05 <|amethyst> aah 21:47:13 Since it is probably the least well-liked? 21:47:32 Question: would we still only require 3 runes for the Zot entrance if this now meant that 4 of them are pre-extended? :P 21:47:33 <|amethyst> I think Abyssal is the least well-liked, but :) 21:48:01 Well, Abyssal at least has the distinction of being the only rune in its branch, whereas Pan already has 4 others 21:48:16 <|amethyst> yeah 21:48:36 <|amethyst> anyway, I've got a pile of commits sitting here and I need to decide whether to add one more 21:48:48 <|amethyst> before someone pushes something else and I have to do another merge :) 21:49:16 -!- sym has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:41 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:57 Is this specifically about the rune, or some other facet here? 21:52:54 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: whether to temporarily disable alternation and generate both 21:52:57 yes I was thinking about saying abyssal rune but I felt like I would probably be kicked :P 21:53:12 Haha. Well, certainly I would less receptive to the idea :P 21:53:21 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:35 removing demonic rune also helps with shortening pan / possibly making it finite which has come up before and I like 21:53:37 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I mean the branches, not the runes 21:53:39 I am still in favor of generating both, at least for a brief time, though I do see the validity of the alternate viewpoint 21:53:52 Which I guess isn't a lot of help 21:53:55 <|amethyst> :) 21:54:20 elliott: Well, if the random Pan lord vaults were less 'valuable', I think we could easily make the levels smaller 21:54:25 Which is good on several fronts 21:54:38 !kick elliott 21:54:44 !banish elliott 21:54:52 !abyss elliott 21:54:53 SamB casts a spell. elliott is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:54:57 |amethyst: Well, how difficult if it to change this either way, once live? 21:55:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:10 elliott: that's about the worst we can do 21:55:27 !coffee elliott 21:55:28 * Henzell hands elliott a barrel of latte macchiato, brewed by Ijyb. 21:55:30 suffer! 21:56:10 lol 21:56:25 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I think there might be one point of strangeness 21:56:40 <|amethyst> in parent_branch() Grunt currently has 21:56:49 <|amethyst> if (branch == BRANCH_TOMB && startdepth[BRANCH_CRYPT] == -1) return BRANCH_FOREST; 21:56:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:04 <|amethyst> oh 21:57:07 <|amethyst> actually, that's fine 21:57:23 That just means Tomb's parent is Forest if Crypt isn't in the game, yes? 21:57:24 <|amethyst> startdepth I think won't change once the game's begun 21:57:31 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:57:41 <|amethyst> right, I was worried about Crypt being added to a game that was missing it 21:57:49 <|amethyst> but I guess that doesn't happen 21:58:01 All that's determined from the start of the game, isn't it? 21:58:20 DracoOmega: still like the idea of putting a zig entry in hellion island 21:58:22 Or that visionary vault wouldn't work 21:58:32 <|amethyst> yeah 21:58:33 elliott: It is amusing 21:58:38 <|amethyst> so it's not a problem 21:58:46 <|amethyst> well 21:58:47 elliott: So I can approve, I think 21:58:56 you can, but do you?? 21:58:59 <|amethyst> s/well// 21:59:04 Haha 21:59:05 elliott: should make some double and triple zig entry vaults 21:59:22 <|amethyst> hm 21:59:25 tick tick tick 21:59:26 Maybe we can just make a chance of a Zig in Pan lord vaults instead of a rune? :P 21:59:27 |amethyst, DracoOmega: that's exactly what the idea was - place Tomb in Forest if Crypt doesn't exist. 21:59:32 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:21 <|amethyst> hm 22:00:32 <|amethyst> who wants to write the email to c-r-d ? 22:00:41 DracoOmega: sounds good to me 22:00:50 everyone loves zigs 22:01:19 Well, it would make Zigscumming quicker! 22:01:37 -!- Chakan has quit [] 22:01:49 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:57 But with demonic out, if you wanted to make Pan finite, I can see determining a random number of floors at game start, and then just making the 4th Pan lord floor the 'last' 22:02:04 In that you get tossed out once you leave it, one way or the other 22:02:24 And the 4 big floors are randomly shuffled among the total number 22:02:28 yes 22:02:43 it would be very nice in terms of the experience of getting the pan runes I think -- which is such a drag now 22:02:50 (RIP zigscumming though :( ) 22:02:53 Well, it is annoying when it goes on really long 22:03:03 Which if doesn't do as often these days, but still sometimes 22:03:18 I thought we were just gonna put a guarenteed zig in D:-26 22:03:24 Well, that's a seperate thing 22:03:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:03:30 Zigscumming is usually for people that want to do lots of zigs 22:04:02 put a zig entrance at the end of every zig 22:04:04 I would be sad to see zigscumming removed entirely though, to be honest 22:04:07 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:16 Since it's kind of fun for the people that do it, and balance is not really a concern 22:04:21 I've never actually tried a zig so don't mind me 22:04:30 DracoOmega: well, there is the possibility of putting an item on zig:27 that gives you more zigs 22:04:30 Since if you can do 1 or 2 zigs, you were already strong enough to defeat anything else anyway 22:04:38 this ties in with the guaranteed zig in D that was discussed 22:04:41 Orb of Zigs, or whatever you called it? :P 22:04:44 yes 22:04:50 What's the appeal of finite pan? 22:04:59 I don't want it to be part of a discussion on pan or whatever because it is controversial and can be added later :P 22:05:01 Less time getting lost in it, for one thing 22:05:16 nrook: easier to go to Fire branch 22:05:19 nrook: it's more that there is no appeal of infinite pan 22:05:26 especially since there's already an infinite branch 22:05:28 if you can find edge of Frying Pan branch 22:05:39 as long as pan is non persistant 22:06:01 Yes, I wouldn't mean to change that here, since that's pretty fundamental to how it plays 22:06:26 SamB: that's fair, I haven't played with new abyss yet. I always got the impression unending pan was around for a specific subset of players who wanted to goof off infinitely though, not for most people 22:06:37 Really, the only thing that bothers me really about removing the demonic rune is that it feels like it makes the Pan lord vaults 'pointless'. Since why wouldn't you just ignore them? 22:06:43 nrook: I'm being silly ;-) 22:06:51 I uh 22:07:00 I may have meant to send that to elliott 22:07:04 irc is hard 22:07:05 90% of gates could be generated in them 22:07:07 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I'm going to push with the alternation still there; I'm sending an email to crd about it 22:07:13 usually it's elliptic people mistab me as 22:07:20 st_: Like, to further floors 22:07:25 yes 22:07:25 st_: well, pan can just close off after you go through all the floors 22:07:39 oh 22:07:40 On the one hand, I do like that. On the other hand, this could be a LOT nastier 22:07:41 I missed DracoOmega's line 22:07:42 this is a new linux install, and my highlight color is unreadable, so I couldn't actually tell who was messaging me :( 22:07:45 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: It should be simple enough to change: just remove crypt and forest from is_random_subbranch, and alter the descriptions 22:07:48 DracoOmega: they have loot 22:07:51 the panlord vaults 22:07:59 I don't think many people raid them for loot 22:08:10 Since the loot isn't especially good and there is plenty outside of it 22:08:11 people *do* do pan for loot :P 22:08:12 DracoOmega: well then, make the loot better... that was easy :p 22:08:13 it does make speedruns/branchless/etc harder but we've never designed around that 22:08:17 And the vaults are way harder than Pan on average 22:08:26 well, pan could be reworked slightly 22:08:31 the non-unique levels are already a bit boring 22:08:43 -!- Demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:08:48 the focus could be on multiple vaults on many levels instead 22:08:56 or bigger vaults that take up more of the level and are more spread out with the danger or whatever 22:09:13 I think part of the boredom is actually that you can and SHOULD skip most of them 22:09:14 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:15 but also I don't think it's so bad if it's harder to do pan 22:09:20 Which wouldn't be true if most of the portals were in vaults themselves 22:09:23 I also think that if pan is finite, there should only be a gate out of it on the last floor 22:09:27 <|amethyst> here goes nothing 22:09:30 since extended comes after a ton of xp and items and most characters can do it if they really want to as it stands 22:09:33 because it is far too easy to leave now 22:10:28 (and I think one of extended's problems is that it's too easy for people who know how to play extended on the kind of characters you'd want to do extended on) 22:10:29 |amethyst, you are an ambitious one :) 22:10:50 |amethyst: I already pushed that 22:11:15 !lg * playable x=cdist(crace) 22:11:23 2012535 games for * (playable): cdist(crace)=24 22:11:33 we only need one more 22:11:35 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:40 We *have* one more. 22:11:44 Just get bh to finish up his work :b 22:11:50 one idea for pan is that each floor can potentially have a rule to it 22:12:10 <|amethyst> SamB: huh? 22:12:15 st_: like "no shouting"? 22:12:21 <|amethyst> SamB: oh, "nothing"? 22:12:27 |amethyst: yes that 22:12:34 <|amethyst> SamB: you had me worried for a minute 22:12:43 SamB: if you want to be thought of a fool 22:12:44 lol 22:13:00 <|amethyst> "it didn't warn me about a forced update... what have I done?" 22:13:43 !tell Eronarn You might want to have a look at trunk now... 22:13:43 Grunt: OK, I'll let eronarn know. 22:13:50 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1445-g981d31e: Initial implementation of lava orcs. 10(9 months ago, 17 files, 115+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=981d31ef5a04 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1446-g6e67f44: Lava orc Beoghishness 10(9 months ago, 5 files, 8+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e67f443d338 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1447-g4dec0a9: Lava orc temperature tracking and temperature effects 10(9 months ago, 12 files, 479+ 19-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4dec0a926376 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1448-g83058c8: Passive heat, based on existing passive freeze, and restricted to lava orcs for now. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 2 files, 36+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83058c8b4f0a 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1449-g09b2f21: Prevent lava orcs from using scrolls or books when they are too hot. 10(9 months ago, 4 files, 26+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=09b2f21588c9 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1450-g61389cf: Lava orcs have innate Stoneskin (and cannot cast it otherwise). 10(5 months ago, 7 files, 120+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61389cfacadf 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1451-gedbafac: Heavily rework the lava orc temperature mechanic. 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 3 files, 88+ 62-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edbafac67ba2 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1452-g7f40cb1: Lava orcs can swim in lava unless it is flagged as dangerous to them. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 6 files, 46+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f40cb1dbc08 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1453-g8e5b3ad: Lava orcs have slow movement when cold and fast movement when hot. 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8e5b3ad9df55 22:14:11 03Eronarn 07* 0.12-a0-1454-gfc37d1d: Give lava orcs a heat halo that causes fire damage to nearby enemies. 10(5 months ago, 10 files, 124+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc37d1d73062 22:14:11 ... and 112 more commits 22:14:13 (not that Eronarn ever reads his !messages) 22:14:15 are the servers being updated 22:14:20 nice "0.12" 22:14:31 Way to not just report the merge, Chei. 22:14:34 *merges 22:15:01 <|amethyst> Grunt: it's because I merged into trunk instead of backwards I guess 22:15:14 <|amethyst> elliott: CAO and CSZO are rebuilding 22:15:28 |amethyst: F5 F5 F5 F5 22:15:47 elliott: what is this, Turbo Pascal 22:16:00 no, linley used turbo c++ 22:16:14 |amethyst: I bet you missed the last commit I made (on master) <_< 22:16:16 %git HEAD 22:16:16 07Grunt * 0.13-a0-1248-g4b0f138: Change up the monster sets in grunt_crypt_end_deaths_head. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 46+ 25-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b0f138ef5fc 22:16:26 * SamB played with that when he was trying to reconstruct ZZT from the binary 22:16:30 SamB: ZZT!!! 22:16:34 <|amethyst> Grunt: where? 22:16:43 |amethyst: when you triggered the rebuild? :b 22:16:51 <|amethyst> Grunt: nope 22:16:57 |amethyst: good! 22:19:02 <|amethyst> !tell bh now you have the problem of figuring out what character to use to select the 27th race 22:19:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 22:19:38 what a slow rebuild 22:19:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:00 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1248-g4b0f138 (34) 22:20:02 Make humans @ 22:20:21 -!- petern is now known as Guest25810 22:20:33 <|amethyst> elliott: has to recompile pretty much everything from scratch, and I don't use -j on the servers 22:20:55 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:21:05 <|amethyst> !lg * place=forest 22:21:06 No games for * (place=forest). 22:22:03 maybe use -j + nice? 22:25:29 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 266 seconds] 22:25:51 you guys are so impatiant 22:26:27 <|amethyst> I guess sequell needs some updating, or can the abbrevs all be done with user commands now? 22:28:04 !kw ho 22:28:05 Built-in: ho => crace=ho 22:28:12 you can do it but i think it should probably get updated anyway 22:28:18 <|amethyst> How long does it usually take CRD mails to get through? 22:28:43 !kw lo 22:28:43 Built-in: lo => crace=lo 22:28:46 <|amethyst> I guess maybe it's stuck in moderation 22:29:02 !kw forest 22:29:03 No keyword 'forest' 22:29:06 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1248-g4b0f138 (34) 22:29:08 !kw orc 22:29:09 Built-in: orc => place=orc 22:29:18 hmm 22:29:21 what's with that 22:29:32 !kw crypt 22:29:32 Built-in: crypt => place=crypt 22:29:59 !kw forest place=forest 22:30:00 Defined keyword: forest => place=forest 22:30:10 |amethyst: got it just now. 22:30:19 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:32 hai 22:31:32 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:31:35 !messages 22:31:36 (1/1) |amethyst said (12m 33s ago): now you have the problem of figuring out what character to use to select the 27th race 22:31:55 |amethyst: can't we just remove one? 22:31:58 elliott: can you guess I'm trying to run rwbarton's haskell bot :p 22:32:25 nrook: haha, I didn't realise it was the same nick until now :) 22:32:55 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:10 grunt: do you have a sec to test out the jump ability patch I made? I have a test server online 22:33:31 Mm? 22:33:38 grunt: http://gammafunk.no-ip.org:8080/ 22:33:52 you can register and start a game as boot wearable species 22:33:55 then go into wiz mode 22:34:01 I can spectate 22:34:09 gammafunk: how is it different from blink? :) 22:34:26 bh: does blink damage? 22:34:29 well, it has jump attack with multi hitting and it has limited range 22:34:42 -!- tatterdemalion has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:42 huh 22:35:50 -!- nrook_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:53 my concerns are making interface not-bad since we don't like combat to involve much keystrokes, and to balance so it's no overpowered, but the first concerns me the most 22:35:58 -!- nrook has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:36:00 -!- nrook_ is now known as nrook 22:36:19 gammafunk: does it just jump over one target? 22:36:53 currently up to 3 spaces away, over two max 22:37:11 primary target gets like 300% damage, secondary get cleave like damage at 75% 22:37:52 i'm guessing choosing the primary target and source squares isn't enough to fully determine the path? 22:38:11 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:38:13 there's a default path chosen, and you cycle landing sites with 'c' key 22:38:18 -!- Guest25810 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:38:19 blackcustard: you don't exactly choose the source square I assume ... 22:38:22 chooses closest landing site 22:38:28 by default 22:38:29 SamB: you do. by moving 22:38:39 that's why I said "exactly" 22:38:56 well my point was that's all the information the targetter would have 22:39:04 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:30 blackcustard: yeah, targeted chooses closest landing by default, but user can cycle through and there are 'ray' indicates for possible landings 22:40:12 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:25 gammafunk: what's this about? I'm curious 22:41:37 how do i jump? i rolled a human 22:41:46 and i wizmoded some boots, dunno if i need them 22:41:53 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 22:42:12 nrook: I'm spectating you now 22:42:17 gammafunk: what kind of boots do you need to wizmode 22:42:23 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:28 SamB: ego jumping 22:42:33 and you need 15 evoc 22:42:36 to get full range 22:43:09 oh hey, it's scorpion teleport :D 22:44:13 nrook: people mentioned that before :) 22:44:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:40 well, naturally I still think it's a good idea, so I approve 22:44:58 oh, are you the person who did scorpion teleport? I knew the name sounded familiar 22:45:00 I'm all for making boots more interesting. It sounds overpowered taken on the face of it 22:45:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:45:14 so, webtiles seems to not handle djinn at all 22:45:16 possibly lo too? 22:45:39 well console doesn't handle lo either 22:45:43 in terms of hud 22:45:50 which i assume is what you were talking about 22:46:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:46:17 oh nice it has "Place:" and then the time count haha 22:46:19 XL: 1 Next: 0% Place:3.4 (1.2) 22:46:20 yes 22:46:23 but I meant there's not like a proper essence bar or whatever 22:46:34 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:47:19 can someone recommend an xp mod for grotesks? I have very little idea of how powerful they are. I'm fairly certain that they're wildly op right now 22:47:20 elliott: yep 22:48:54 sometimes you can hit 3 targets 22:48:58 bh: What about them would be wildly OP? 22:48:59 but it's a hard angle 22:49:06 reminds me of multizapping 22:49:11 bh: (I admit I have not looked at the branch myself yet) 22:49:13 DracoOmega: well, petrify. 22:49:16 that might not be a good thing 22:49:33 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:36 if this doesn't get tedious it could be fun 22:49:45 You start slowly petrifying. When you thaw out you take some stat damage based on the hardest hit you took while petrifying/petrified 22:49:56 blackcustard: yeah, the interface needs to be smoother I think; probably better landing position logic 22:50:04 you could even TAB with it I suppose, but that's scary 22:50:23 !tell rwbarton is the version of your crawl bot on github up to date? 22:50:24 nrook: OK, I'll let rwbarton know. 22:50:25 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:40 pulping three pieces of popcorn and getting into a good position with one move 22:50:54 balance will become an issue maybe :p 22:50:55 bh: What ADVANTAGE do you have while petrifying? 22:51:07 DracoOmega: you get damage reduction 22:51:18 Does it inhibit other things? 22:51:33 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:40 once you become petrified you can't do anything for a few turns 22:52:32 I think he meant other BAD things 22:53:10 at the moment you can't berserk. 22:54:01 Okay, so you get short-term damage reduction in exchange for stat damage and being paralyzed for a few turns 22:54:07 How short-term are we talking? 22:54:16 Because at the moment it sounds less op and more not even very good :P 22:54:37 who's the dude who summons spammals? 22:54:43 f something 22:54:53 feustachio 22:54:58 heh. right. ty 22:55:16 :p glad I actually remembered, and I believe there's not really an f 22:55:26 DracoOmega: depends on level. I believe it varies from 3-5 times the standard petrification duration. I don't recall off the top of my head. 22:55:27 -!- lion has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:55:35 I'm a lousy player, so I'm the wrong person to sort out balance 22:55:37 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 22:56:32 probably if i target a particular square, it should at least defualt to a path that hits the most enemies 22:56:45 maybe not the best enemies, but not just 1 when it could get a free hit on a second 22:57:15 bh: I would need to test, but at the moment that doesn't sound obviously broken in a too-strong way, at least 22:57:48 blackcustard: that's a good idea 22:57:55 I use the closes square to player currently 22:58:59 this path i have on screen right now is kind of weird 22:59:17 it seems to make sense 22:59:39 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-1249-g70f8c6c: Fix zot point and turn display for LO in console. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=70f8c6ce77d3 23:00:00 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:02 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:00:26 DracoOmega: it also gets claws 2, talons 2, fangs 1, which is probably a bit much. 23:00:50 Well, balance is a holistic thing 23:01:01 So it really depends on the sum of the parts, and how they work together 23:01:20 Probably I should actually look more closely at it before saying more :P 23:01:28 mhmm 23:03:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:13 -!- caracal_ is now known as caracal 23:04:30 -!- caracal has quit [Changing host] 23:05:21 -!- Automaton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:05:21 would it be weird to put the intrinsic physical mutations on a growup plan? Randomly grow claws, fangs or talons every few levels (to a set limit)? 23:05:32 I don't want to encroach on DS territory 23:07:26 -!- bh has left ##crawl-dev 23:07:32 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08:16 That seems unnecessary unless there's some kind of variety there 23:08:59 ??fangs 23:09:00 sharp teeth[1/2]: Grants an auxiliary unarmed biting attack, increasing in damage with the level of the mutation. If you have 3 levels of sharp teeth (and aren't a vampire), you can butcher with your mouth. Vampires start with 3 levels of sharp teeth. 23:09:02 ??claws 23:09:03 claws[1/1]: +2 base unarmed damage per level and increases {punch} damage. Level 3 chops off hydra heads. The effects of claws are eliminated if you're wearing gloves, but at claws 3 you can't use the slot anyways. Counts as a butchering tool, even if you are wielding a weapon you can not or do not want to unwield. 23:09:04 ??talons 23:09:05 talons[1/1]: Sort of like claws, but for your feet. Levels 1 and 2 don't prevent wearing boots, but wearing boots prevents the kick attack. Level 3 prevents wearing boots. 23:12:58 ??djinn 23:12:58 djinn[1/3]: Player species with weird rC-, High fire aptitude, and a single pool (essence) from which they draw both mana and health from. Currently in trunk. 23:13:27 what's the best way to merge grotesks into trunk? rebase? 23:14:19 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:50 bh: get |amethyst to do it for you, clearly 23:15:04 !seen |amethyst 23:15:05 I last saw |amethyst at Thu May 30 03:33:48 2013 UTC (41m 17s ago) saying 'elliott: maybe not in webtiles :)' on ##crawl. 23:15:24 notice how he used plain old merge? 23:15:59 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:16:06 no, I actually hadn't looked at the commits 23:16:17 <|amethyst> I'd say a merge is less error-prone 23:16:24 <|amethyst> be careful about enum orderng 23:16:30 <|amethyst> ordering 23:16:48 <|amethyst> I found a bug in kilobyte's lava_djinn merge that I fixed when merging it back into master 23:16:51 gammafunk: maybe you could make it hit all enemies adjacent to the path for some smaller amount of damage. that would reduce the incentives for fiddiling and make it easier to find the optimum 23:16:55 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 23:17:00 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:19 i could see rapid fire blink-attacks being a fun way to fight a swarm 23:17:25 blackcustard: that's an interesting idea 23:17:30 <|amethyst> (actually it was a problem in the lorc branch, but kilobyte didn't notice when merging) 23:18:06 heart of the swarm gave kerrigan a similar attack; i haven't played SCII, but i watch day9 pulp tons of weak units with it in one particular champaign mission. it was very fun to watch 23:18:29 -!- tigertrap has quit [Quit: tigertrap] 23:18:37 it was basically a big line based splash attack that happened to also be blink 23:18:42 -!- Vbitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:50 |amethyst: want to merge it? :) 23:18:54 maybe crowd-control like that would be a good fit for it 23:18:55 bh: you can tell from how the first few start with 0.12-a0 23:19:03 campaign* 23:19:22 it also reminds me of the sword proposal for autohits 23:19:52 Djinn and lava orcs missing webtiles support by neil 23:20:08 sword jumper with haste for speed running sprints XD 23:20:38 blackcustard: going to add a class to start with it called Dragoon 23:20:39 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:20:45 stolen from final fantasy I guess 23:20:46 gammafunk: with a heavily enchanted polearm to start? 23:20:51 <_< 23:21:00 grunt: I thought that'd be fun too, but obviously not balanced :) 23:21:09 all this just to reach the top shelf >_> 23:21:15 <|amethyst> Rydia never recovered after they applied the LOS nerf to her whole family 23:21:17 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:21:49 apparently dragoons actually rode horses IRL 23:21:58 |amethyst: Hahahaha 23:22:00 not sure where the idea of them as jumping knights came from 23:22:07 probably from FF 23:22:07 -!- Vbitz has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:22:16 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:18 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:25 yeah, I think it's literally just from FF4 23:22:27 gammafunk: Probably can blame something in the Japanese->English translation or something 23:22:34 SamB: yeah, I mean were squaresoft got it from 23:22:38 *where 23:22:41 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:53 well, dragoon is a cool name for a knight, and I bet real dragoons used lances? 23:23:25 Probably at some point 23:23:40 that's probably the long and the short of it 23:23:53 Historically, a lot of them used guns though I think 23:24:24 "The name possibly derives from an early weapon, a short wheellock called a dragon because the first dragoons raised in France had their carbine's muzzle decorated with a dragon's head." 23:24:38 <|amethyst> bh: what's the relation between ABIL_FLY_II and ABIL_WISP_BLINK ? 23:24:55 <|amethyst> oh 23:24:57 |amethyst: no idea. 23:25:03 git blame someone else 23:25:05 <|amethyst> I see, ABIL_FLY_II was the old name 23:25:25 <|amethyst> enum was replaced 23:25:30 ah, so probably no lance dragoons then 23:25:53 nrook: obviously some sort of bayonet 23:26:30 -!- ahahahah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:26:35 Like, I wonder if Kain was actually called a dragoon in the Japanese version, or if that was a localization choice from something else? 23:26:42 gammafunk: consider skipping to 4:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pydDxrPaY&list=PLgmCLtUkEutJccBpdRls6TrfbqSlvpudO 23:26:48 -!- Mutt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:27:05 Yeah, it's an English neologism for it 23:27:11 In Japanese, it was just 'Dragon Knight' 23:27:12 the boss has the attack too actually. i had forgotten that. doesn't matter because it's just fighting kerrigan 23:27:24 DracoOmega: typical 23:28:35 oh man, so it's literally it sounds like dragon 23:28:49 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:54 Well, it doesn't sound like the english word in Japanese, either :P 23:28:58 It's ryuukishi 23:29:13 blackcustard: yeah, I like the crowd control thing 23:29:19 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:21 But whoever translated decided to make them Dragoons instead of Dragon Knights 23:29:27 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:29:44 I remember that the dragoon was named kain and he had a massive inner-guilt thing 23:29:45 nobody actually knows what dragoons are anyway 23:30:43 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:46 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:30:57 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:54 aren't dragoons some sort of cavalry? shock troops maybe? 23:32:07 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:35 no, no, shock troops clearly have electric pitchforks 23:32:48 zing. crawl would be much improved if we added mounts and pets. 23:33:00 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:33:05 maybe an alignment system. And NPCs who get mad if you kill shopkeepers. 23:34:01 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:49 bh: And polypiling? and Pudding farming? 23:35:17 in all seriousness I really wish we had nymphs as enemies 23:35:22 they were so much fun in nethack 23:35:24 you can never have enough food 23:35:27 we have sirens. 23:35:36 <|amethyst> We have maurice 23:35:40 no, it's the steal your stuff and teleport away thing 23:35:44 and one maurice is enough 23:35:46 yeah, but he's just one unique 23:35:49 we should add polypiling. Polymorphing objects should turn them into stones or hostile jellies that give no XP 23:35:57 I know it's not a majority opinion by any stretch 23:36:21 Well, nymphs could make sense as a Forest monster, but they shouldn't actually do what they do in Nethack :P 23:36:39 |amethyst: Octopode moves to 'A' 23:36:40 us nethack players have been to known to find uses for stones ... 23:37:00 and gelatinous cubes, which do the whole item eating thing 23:37:14 <|amethyst> bh: I'm seeing that 23:37:25 <|amethyst> bh: do you have tiles? 23:37:27 |amethyst: I merged if you want me to push. 23:37:28 nope. 23:37:53 <|amethyst> bh: I would say at least get tiles before pushing 23:37:55 DracoOmega: dryads too; but without the possible confusion 23:38:45 DracoOmega: is there a lot of water in Forest? 23:38:48 tiles, smiles. 23:39:03 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:28 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:45 I was looking a the djinn log to update the learndb I noticed commit cb455034e8 (Stop Death's Door for djinn) I just want to mention that if you have death's door on and try to use a Makhleb evocation (costs hp) you can pay the cost unless its more than your current HP ("you don't have the vitality at the moment") 23:40:13 *invocation 23:40:43 SamB: there is a little bit of water in Forest; why? 23:40:44 hehe! 23:40:55 -!- johlstei has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:09 Grunt: he mentioned putting nymphs there 23:41:16 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:41:17 reaver: Is the hp cost not actually deducted from you? 23:41:23 Grunt: indeed, why is there a little bit of water in forest 23:41:27 why is there a little bit of water anywhere?! 23:41:31 SamB: That's not exactly what I said 23:41:33 It is deducted 23:41:42 elliott: because mumra put it there in the layout :b 23:42:46 reaver: Then that doesn't seem a problem 23:42:55 reaver: If you can only pay costs you can actually afford, and the cost is still chargeds 23:44:42 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:10 <|amethyst> bh: I'd post an implementable requesting tiles 23:45:17 will do 23:45:22 is there one for lorcs and djinn? 23:45:33 |amethyst: I thought they were called tile requests 23:46:14 <|amethyst> SamB: I don't see that as a category name; am I missing something? 23:46:40 maybe I'm just forgetful 23:47:39 <|amethyst> SamB: ah, they're usually implementables with "Tile request:" in the title 23:47:48 <|amethyst> s/usually/sometimes/ ? 23:49:57 -!- Vbitz has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:50:54 ok. I don't think this will destroy the universe 23:53:16 <|amethyst> bh: should I rebuild? 23:53:33 |amethyst: please 23:53:43 back in 20 (if I did destroy the world) 23:54:48 bh's world is devoured by a tear in reality. 23:55:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-635-g167c651: Grotesk 10(3 weeks ago, 6 files, 69+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=167c651946e1 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-636-g78df991: Grotesk Self-Petrification 10(3 weeks ago, 10 files, 50+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=78df991bbd0c 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-637-gd9195e9: Grotesk Stat Damage and add-on effects 10(3 weeks ago, 8 files, 52+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9195e97f915 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-638-gd755003: Grotesk Aptitude / Mutation tweaks 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 11+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7550033e45b 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-639-g03bc5ad: Prohibit berserking while self-petrifying. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03bc5ad6694f 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-640-gad82a94: Allow Petr Resistance to occur randomly. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad82a94a1961 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1256-gf01b7cc: Merge branch 'master' into gargoyle_merge 10(25 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f01b7cc7abd9 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1257-g5ec46be: Grotesk description 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ec46be25b03 23:55:15 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-1258-g261b828: Increase Grotesk class restrictions 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=261b828804b1 23:55:17 Tile Request: Grotesk by brendan 23:56:23 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:56:37 bh: if this new species of yours turns out to be bad and it has to be reverted and everyone regrets it, you could say that it was an... Akzidenz-Grotesk 23:57:00 <|amethyst> elliott: you'll go to hellvetica for that one 23:57:10 so MarvinPA has to remove three species now 23:57:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:57:38 <|amethyst> DE, HE, SE 23:58:01 four, counting bringing back MD 23:58:01 this is basically how development works; everyone digs a hole and then marvinpa fills it back in again 23:58:04 ??race list 23:58:05 race list[1/1]: 0.12 races: Ce DD DE Dg Dr Ds Fe Gh Ha HE HO Hu Ko Mf Mi Mu Na Og Op SE Sp Te Tr Vp 23:58:15 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:58:30 how about SE, Ha, Te 23:58:40 <|amethyst> we need an Umbra Elementalist 23:58:46 dude Te is great, don't touch Te 23:58:53 well HE can go too it's kind of crap 23:58:54 ok HE, SE, Ha 23:59:03 yeah HE will be unmourned 23:59:07 um felid 23:59:10 I will mourn it 23:59:13 mikee_: my list would be Fe, Fe, Fe 23:59:18 but something tells me felids are never getting removed ever 23:59:18 how about SE, Ko, Te 23:59:19 people mourned md, guys 23:59:33 fr: whenever a felid is played, henzell posts a cat picture 23:59:33 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:47 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-1258-g261b828 (34) 23:59:50 look my projections [POINTS TO CHART] show that if races continue to be added at the current pace, we will have 1734 races by 0.15 23:59:53 remove minotaur 23:59:55 i dare you 23:59:58 we have to act now to cull them