00:01:14 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:15 xFleury: there's mummy obviously ... 00:03:28 "In earlier versions of the game, this made absurd levels of scumming possible" 00:03:32 What changed? 00:04:35 http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Mummy 00:05:23 oh, I'm an idiot, it explains why in the very next paragraph 00:05:38 hehehe 00:05:43 happens 00:06:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-737-g8ebeecd (34) 00:08:28 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:27 So if I tested a build out that did not have monster spawning, the issue I'm likely to run into is that Mummies, or bloodless vampires, with a pair of Ring of Regeneration have a huge advantage? 00:12:33 -!- DKykm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:37 * SamB wonders if elliptic has any comments 00:13:08 xFleury: no 00:13:16 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:13:17 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:13:24 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:31 xFleury: the issue you are likely to run into is that there will be far less XP in the game and that all monsters will start asleep 00:13:34 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-737-g8ebeecd (34) 00:14:44 *far* less? You mean a large portion of the monsters you fight are spawned rather than just generated with the level? 00:16:00 a substantial proportion at least 00:17:53 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:18:53 Maybe what I'll try first (rather than deleting the spawning) is rigging is so that it spawns a random number of roaming monsters on the floor once the level is created. 00:19:31 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:20:46 I'm presuming that roaming monsters actually roam rather than heat-seeking the player. 00:22:24 -!- Blade-- is now known as Blade- 00:22:33 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:29:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:30:01 xFleury: what are you trying to accomplish? 00:31:16 considering making a spinoff of the game to my liking 00:33:30 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:45 -!- datgum has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:41:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: BRB, DEAD] 00:45:51 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-737-g8ebeecd 00:45:55 -!- oddsox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:49:26 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 00:51:01 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:51:08 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:47 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:06 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:42 -!- kawatan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:36 -!- dupo has quit [] 01:04:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05:06 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:37 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: OUCH!!!] 01:17:09 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:11 -!- Shaft_ed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:21:35 I had an idea for a sprint map, where most of the enemies are either elemental-like congealed spells or strong spellcasters with special use of a single spell, and spells that you kill and 'pick-up' you can memorize Vehumet style. Does a some sprint map already have a similar mechanic or should I throw together a wiki page? 01:22:40 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:22:44 -!- Exister_ is now known as Exister 01:23:03 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:10 Nivim: I've never heard of such a thing, so I guess you should wiki away 01:24:22 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 01:25:10 Nivim: that sounds like it'd require a lot of new C++ code as well as the maps/Lua, quite a big project 01:36:35 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:43:54 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:42 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:14 -!- ZebTM has quit [] 01:51:11 -!- xFleury has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:41 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:34 * xFleury hates his unreliable internet connection. 01:57:35 -!- TastyLemonDrops has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 02:07:00 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:12 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:15:48 -!- Helmschank has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:51 -!- Howded has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:21:02 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:22:40 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 02:23:59 So are certain ghosts not supposed to leave morgues or is that a cszo server hiccup 02:24:58 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 02:26:47 example? 02:27:01 deaths should always leave morgue files 02:27:05 oh hm, it's there now 02:27:15 it wasn't there 2 minutes ago, but maybe that's tourney speed 02:27:28 what do you mean by "wasn't there"? 02:27:33 was 1. mumra, XL15 DrWz, T:45317: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/mumra/morgue-mumra-20130517-071438.txt 02:27:45 I mean when I followed the link I got a "not found" page 02:27:57 I'll just write it off as "these things take time to process" though 02:28:04 link works for me 02:28:28 that sounds strange 02:28:32 yes, the point is it does now but it didn't 2 minutes ago (so probably just takes time) 02:28:42 not sure why it would take time 02:28:42 oh, i know why 02:28:49 also you know what that ghost has anyway, cheater :| 02:28:55 you don't need a log! 02:29:03 haha 02:29:06 you got my ghost? 02:29:09 yes 02:30:21 it registered the death when i hadn't finished going through all the death messages 02:30:29 mm. 02:30:30 ohh 02:30:33 the morgue file must only be generated once you actually get to the scores screen 02:30:40 yeah that sounds plausible 02:31:46 that was a really stupid death. i should've had a long break after orc. 02:33:25 Well we all have them, I killed a streak in lab due to pressing the wrong ability key and then getting a hostile executioner because of that 02:33:35 Which is possibly an entirely different sort of stupid death... 02:34:03 hehe 02:34:04 -!- eEyBv has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:39 but it's more annoying than usual when i actually had a chance of getting a highscore win in the tournament 02:35:06 -!- Nomi has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 02:35:24 well, getting any win at all would be good for bad-dev team :) 02:35:28 ehe 02:36:03 Losing that char was annoying because it sets me back on tournament streak points and I don't play very fast 02:36:48 anyway I'm pretty sure all of you have more points than our captain >_> <_< 02:37:04 haha 02:37:43 all of them have at least three times as many points as your captain 02:37:50 yes 02:38:08 he's clearly collaborating with that other team 02:38:23 no other explanation, except of course for the blatantly obvious one 02:39:39 -!- GzkXv has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:40:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47:14 -!- Staplegun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:32 -!- kongtomorrow has quit [Quit: kongtomorrow] 02:50:19 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:52:51 -!- Guest is now known as lightquake 02:58:43 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:01:49 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:12:16 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:42 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:21:41 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:21:42 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:21:48 -!- kongtomorrow has quit [Quit: kongtomorrow] 03:22:54 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:51 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:22 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:58 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:52 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:06 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:58:13 -!- xFleury has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:03:21 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:11:29 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:58 Apparently WebRTC is happening. 04:25:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:42 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:26:08 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop_ has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:33 -!- Wolfram_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:30:38 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:31 For some reason I feel like mentioning https://github.com/gameclosure/gcif 04:33:35 Not sure why though. 04:34:32 Seemingly quite unfinished as of now though. 04:35:42 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:36:06 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:05 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 04:47:28 mumra: Now that I'm thinking about that sprint idea and writting it out, I'm pretty sure the reason it sounds like so much work is because it's essentially composed of good or "get to it eventually" ideas I've seen mentioned on this channel in the past 3-4 weeks. Such as abusing "swarm" creatures, experimenting with control of cloud damage timing, confusing on-death effects, making multi-level Sprints, 04:47:30 the advantages and disadvantages of open layouts, changes to Vehumet... 04:48:12 ...I'll get back to the place these long messages are supposed to go. 04:49:53 -!- Helmschank has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:41 Nivim: perhaps, but even if/when those behaviours exist, the ability to customise them from Lua doesn't necessarily exist without additional implementation of an API 04:53:52 some obvious examples would be the rolling beetle behaviour, or kraken tentacles: just because they're in the code, doesn't mean you can just give that effect to another monster the same way you can create custom spellsets for vault monsters 04:54:56 and the spell gifting thing seems to me like a case of that: Vehumet spell gifting is all tied into the religion code, making that functionality arbitrarily available to Lua isn't necessarily an easy task 04:55:13 and swarms are likely to be a similar sort of case 04:55:33 -!- kait_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:36 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:01 not sure what you mean by "confusing on-death effects" but certainly Lua triggers can be attached to monsters to run in the event of their death so maybe that's possible (but again it depends exactly what effects you wanted0 04:56:52 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:14 the cloud timing thing was controlling when clouds appear so they can run in sequence (well there was a separate conversation about at what point the damage should be applied, but this would be one way or the other, you couldn't choose which way) 04:59:27 something i've learned over the years: if it initially sounds like a big task, assume it's going to be a _huge_ task; if some things turn out to be easy then that's a bonus but it doesn't happen very often ... 05:09:14 -!- sym` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:41 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:21:44 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:22:14 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:50:46 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:50 -!- tibi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:30 -!- TheOverlord has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:57:38 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:05:04 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 06:05:16 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:08:53 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:29:04 -!- sildraith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:31:12 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:15 -!- ldf has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- Implojin has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- flun has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- oddsox has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- Automaton has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- ddubois_ has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- syraine has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- Datul has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:15 -!- Coffeemonster has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:24 -!- notid has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:24 -!- ddubois has quit [*.net *.split] 06:31:30 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:34:39 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:25 -!- oddsox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:42:34 -!- quibert has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:54:06 -!- AndChat-172500 is now known as hjklyubn 06:57:48 -!- phyphor is now known as culcube 07:00:45 -!- culcube is now known as phyphor 07:22:47 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:23:14 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 07:23:51 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:37 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 07:36:06 -!- Vizerr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:39:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:24 -!- flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:45:06 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:16 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:52:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:45 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:01:24 -!- hart__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:03 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 08:11:02 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:27:00 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 08:31:15 -!- serq has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:24 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:34:26 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130514031031]] 08:35:35 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:50 -!- Automaton has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:46:08 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:42 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 08:54:44 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:57 -!- blami_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:01:27 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:40 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:11:39 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:41 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:19 -!- twaifu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:22:57 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:24:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:30:15 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:31:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:16 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:29 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:33:59 unseen horror (06x) | Spd: 30 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 12 | see invisible | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 747 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 09:33:59 %??unseen horror 09:34:15 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:15 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 09:34:15 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:37:57 -!- voker57_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:24 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:45:25 -!- voker57__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:47 -!- voker57_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:23 Bwijn the Prestidigitator (L8 SpAr) (Temple) 09:47:17 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:29 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:19 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:52 -!- geekosaur has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:52:18 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:52:29 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:09 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:22 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:31 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:59:24 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:06 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:03:42 -!- Felyza has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:34 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:13 DrKe (L20 MiBe) (Vaults:1) 10:09:17 elliptic (L11 FeFi) (Lair:6) 10:11:07 hm, my cszo game might have frozen? 10:11:48 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:20 Wensley_, server down. 10:12:33 aha 10:12:48 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:12:59 -!- Krag has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:30 -!- Senshi has quit [Client Quit] 10:13:46 Beamed (L4 OgHu) (D:2) 10:16:27 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:27 -!- serq has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:14 -!- myp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:10 PTOANNNG (L5 TrWr) (D:3) 10:25:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:26:08 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:23 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:13 !lm * type=crash -log 10:32:14 4786. PTOANNNG, XL5 TrWr, T:2388 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/PTOANNNG/crash-PTOANNNG-20130517-152509.txt 10:32:59 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:07 naphistim (L11 MiBe) (D:10) 10:39:10 so, I straced the webtiles server and it was blocking while sending to naphistim's game 10:39:38 !lm naphistim crash -log 10:39:38 1. naphistim, XL11 MiBe, T:10982 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/naphistim/crash-naphistim-20130517-153806.txt 10:41:15 (and killing it fixed the problem) 10:47:24 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-738-gc464a65: Don't reduce penance when Elyvilon blocks melee attacks 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c464a65d6835 10:47:26 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:50 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:33 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:52 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:00:26 -!- rigs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:00:39 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:19 -!- thighhigh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:49 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:06:15 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 11:08:02 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:37 -!- SaintWacko_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:18 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:14:22 -!- ChongLi has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:14:48 -!- MirrMurr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:07 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:01 -!- kunwon1 is now known as GhostInZSH 11:21:23 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:09 um 11:22:12 " 11:22:12 *****You are protected from deadly wounds, you are left with 1hp. Dismissed damage is drained from attributes at exchange of 2dmg per attribute." 11:22:28 so let's say you got hit by hellfire for 40 damage 11:22:37 And you had some 14 left. 11:22:45 That would be some small 13 stats. 11:23:15 I'm not sure I like this suggestion or something. 11:24:27 -!- Strat has quit [Client Quit] 11:25:03 what suggestion is that? 11:25:16 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8034 11:25:24 Also, great punishments. 11:26:00 Dropped items are discarded, a monster always chases you and popcorn might appear after using stairs. 11:27:11 oh, a tavern god thread, 11:27:31 abandon all hope ye who enters 11:27:40 i mean, i guess i don't have a lot of room at all to gripe about tavern god threads, but, nonetheless 11:29:25 This is probably the best bit. 11:29:27 "the late powers cater more for stealth based characters that, strangely enough won't kill so much by stabbing but with minions and spells." 11:30:15 How are you going to make stabbing with minions preferrable to doing huge damage once and then making do with spells and minions afterwards? 11:30:33 picking out misc stuff in tavern threads that aren't anywhere near actually being developed usually goes in ##crawl 11:30:41 or in the tavern thread itself even! 11:31:02 Probably. 11:31:19 I found this one of particular interest because it is an interesting suggestion. 11:31:39 all the more reason to post in the thread then 11:42:26 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:31 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:19 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:40 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 11:47:14 There is one bug with webtiles, if you idle in lobby for long enough, you can see multiple games from the same people, as well as games you can't click to spec either because they died or quit/saved. games just doesn't seem to get removed on that kind of events all the time 11:48:07 -!- Implojin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:51:30 -!- rast_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:32 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:55:50 Mattias: This also happens if you have spectated someone for a long period of time. 11:55:59 And is only fixed through a refresh of the page. 11:56:45 -!- ddubois_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:23 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin 12:00:12 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:02:22 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:16 dck (L18 VpMo) (D:22) 12:06:35 Mmh. 12:07:33 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:13 Probably offtopic too, as per usual - but it would seem like stat-zeroing effects (like "brainless") are missing as points of reference on the "stat drain" entry on the knowledge bots. 12:08:30 -!- Exister has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:07 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-738-gc464a65 (34) 12:19:10 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:09 ?? stat drain 12:22:10 stat drain[1/2]: If a stat reaches 0 you are immediately paralysed for 2-4 turns, your speed is halved, and other unpleasant negative effects depending on the stat. After 40 turns of stat zero, random fainting starts, and after 90 turns you die. 12:22:14 ?? stat drain[2] 12:22:15 stat drain[2/2]: Maximum drain from one source: 7 (necromancy miscasts, including {mummy} death curses, Zot traps, and Hell effects), 6 (divination miscasts, including {OCS} and {Sif Muna wrath}), 6 (cursed rings and randarts), 4 (degeneration) 12:22:29 ??brainless 12:22:30 well if you get one of those effects presumably you query for it 12:22:31 brainless[1/1]: Caused by hitting zero intelligence. Can't memorise or cast spells (or read manuals or tomes of Destruction!), 80% chance of failure when reading scrolls. Effects persist for a while after reaching positive int again. Also the usual stat zero effects (halved speed, increasing chances of fainting, death after 90 turns). 12:23:36 what do you call having 0 dex or str? 12:23:45 clumsy, collapse 12:24:42 oh that does remind me, for actual -dev-relevant stuff 12:24:57 how about just removing stat death, but keeping all the other stat zero effects 12:25:02 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:25:12 since they are pretty incredibly bad 12:26:04 !learn add stat_drain With 0 int, you are {brainless}. With 0 dex, you are {clumsy}. With 0 str, you {collapse}. 12:26:04 stat death itself is sort of weird, i'm really not a fan of how it works with 90-turn timer 12:26:05 stat drain[3/3]: With 0 int, you are {brainless}. With 0 dex, you are {clumsy}. With 0 str, you {collapse}. 12:26:37 the 90-turn timer* 12:26:58 the 90-turn timer is much better than the 0-turn timer it used to be 12:27:41 that seems pretty irrelevant 12:27:59 stat death is still kind of awful 12:28:11 i'd be for it, though i tend to be a fan of getting rid of ways for me to die 12:28:18 maybe no timer would be better than a 90-turn timer! and my problem with the 90-turn timer is that it is 90 turns, not that it is a timer 12:28:47 well, instadeath is kind of spoily 12:29:41 -!- Enthash has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:30:22 no more or less spoily than 90-turn delayed death 12:30:29 or rather, i guess, monsters that attack stats are kind of spoily 12:30:42 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:43 the first time i died to OCS, i was like "wait, what?" 12:32:35 what would be better than a 90-turn timer? 12:32:48 [18:24:56] <+MarvinPA> how about just removing stat death, but keeping all the other stat zero effects 12:32:48 [18:25:12] <+MarvinPA> since they are pretty incredibly bad 12:33:24 no objections from me :) 12:33:54 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:53 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:46:45 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 12:48:42 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 12:48:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:50:25 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:54:27 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 12:56:11 -!- Locke is now known as Guest30393 12:56:15 -!- kongtomorrow has quit [Quit: kongtomorrow] 12:56:21 -!- Guest30393 is now known as Locke37 13:01:26 would it be considered cheating in the tournament to share an account between three players? 13:01:34 each playing on one designated server 13:02:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:05:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:08:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:40 rast_: if you are doing so in order to try to get very high on the individual rankings, then yes 13:11:04 what if you're just doing it to cram more than 6 players into your clan? 13:11:05 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:52 clans should definitely have only 6 people playing on them 13:12:05 we clearly can't enforce either of these things, though 13:12:20 I wish clans could have more than 6 players 13:12:35 well, make two clans :P 13:12:40 It would be somewhat possible to balance out. 13:12:48 adjust the scoring a little to make it work 13:12:51 there are lots of groups of players who are much larger than 6 players 13:12:55 and they just make multiple teams 13:12:56 The problem is just that it would be tricky to not encourage going lone-best-wolf. 13:12:57 like certain individual points shouldnt count as clan points 13:13:12 see reddit... they organized about 6 teams 13:13:17 like the point reward for first ascension 13:13:17 !tme 13:13:20 !time 13:13:21 shit 13:13:21 Time: May 17, 2013, 06:13:21 PM, UTC. The 2013 0.12 tournament ends in 9 days, 5 hours, 46 minutes and 38 seconds. 13:13:36 elliptic: that doesnt work so well when you have about 8-9 players 13:13:49 rast_: well, clans don't have to have 6 players 13:14:00 they do if you want the most points 13:14:08 unless you are being very competitive about it, there's no reason to have 6 players 13:14:13 since a ton of the points are individual whatever 13:14:31 and if you are being competitive, you should accept that only 6 people are supposed to be on a team and not try to cram more for an unfair advantage over other teams 13:14:38 i suppose you could have less than 6 actual players, but you definitely want 6 accounts 13:15:54 Why would there be any benefits to cramming in dummy accounts into a clan despite there not being enough players to fill them? 13:16:20 WINS 13:16:22 100 points for a player's first win. (Since winning is kind of the goal.) 13:16:23 50 points for a player winning two characters of different races and classes at some point during the tourney. 13:16:48 if you're capabale of winning several times, you want to make sure that every account has at least one win, preferrably two 13:17:04 See: Cheating 13:17:07 SPECIAL WINS 13:17:09 5,000,000/turncount points for each player's fastest win (by turncount). 13:17:10 1,250,000/duration points for each player's fastest win (by realtime, measured in seconds). 13:17:20 Bloax: no, there's nothing illegal about having 6 accounts for 4 players or whatever 13:17:33 it's still worse than having 6 accounts for 6 players 13:17:46 right, because you just have less players doing work 13:17:59 if it were up to me, overall clan scorign wouldnt have those categories i just listed 13:18:04 6 accounts for 8 players is just giving yourself an unfair advantage though 13:18:18 elliptic: fine, and we won't do that 13:18:31 our clan started discussing it because one player hasnt won yet 13:18:44 one player on my team hasn't won either (or barely played) 13:18:52 and we left one potential player out, and were kickign around the idea of having him work on that guy's account 13:18:53 this happens to most teams... people don't know how much they want to play 13:19:02 This is happening to me. 13:19:07 Because I feel like complete shit. 13:19:13 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:13 you can also change your team listing, you know 13:19:16 you can still swap clan members i think 13:19:18 yes 13:19:19 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:28 yeah but kicking a player out for not winning is mean 13:19:30 And playing heavy strategy while completely out of condition to do so is far from optimal. 13:20:04 It would be nice if the scorignn made more emphasis on the total clan accomplishments rather than summing individual accomplishments 13:20:19 rast_: it does for a lot of things 13:20:22 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:20:23 -!- frobop has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:20:30 elliptic: I agree 13:21:14 I think if a few of the individual scoring metrics were removed from the clan scoring 13:21:23 rast_: I've gradually been moving more things to be based on clan achievement over the years, and will probably move more 13:21:24 we cuold have larger clans without having as much of an advantage 13:21:46 you'd still have a large advantage with more players 13:21:52 for instance, currently even if my clan overall has ten Okawaru wins over the tournament 13:22:04 we're still at the same level as a clan that has one good Oka win 13:22:28 which is good 13:22:35 obviously if you have 12 players then it is much easier to win every race/class than if you have 6 players 13:22:39 nothing is going to change this 13:22:44 right, and thats fine with me 13:23:16 and this is why we won't be allowing clans of unlimited size anytime soon 13:23:25 maybe increase the size a little? 13:23:35 why? most people seem quite happy with 6 13:23:51 i dont think most people have a huge preference 13:23:54 sure, having 8-9 people who want to form one team is bad currently, but there will always be some range that is bad 13:24:04 if the max size is 8, then having 10-11 people is bad, etc 13:24:07 if you allowed, say, 10 13:24:17 well, OK 13:24:23 then you are just penalizing the people who have trouble finding that many people 13:24:32 fair enough 13:24:47 I still think that the individual scoring categories I mentioned should be removed 13:25:11 so a clan of four isn't automatically at a huge disadvantage compared to a clan of six 13:25:17 they still would be 13:25:28 I have no idea how you think they would ever not be at a huge disadvantage 13:25:32 not as big a one 13:25:38 okay but still huge 13:25:44 if you have 4 players who play 30 games each right now 13:25:58 they're still at a huge dis advantage compare to a team of 6 that plays 20 each 13:26:06 yes 13:26:09 assuming theres one win per account 13:26:13 fortunately they can recruit more people to their team! 13:26:27 that's a strange assumption 13:26:43 if their recruits can get at lest the first win, theres not much point 13:27:09 basuically a huge chunk of clan points fall into the "first win per account" category 13:27:21 I think thats bad 13:27:26 rast_: look, I sort of agree with you that some of that stuff shouldn't be part of clan scoring, but this argument makes no sense 13:27:40 I'm ok with the fact that more players inherently means more games 13:28:47 -!- Guest72537 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 13:28:53 the current scoring has the advantage that it is easier for players to contribute to their clan score 13:28:54 do you think clan score should be based on a LUB of the members' performance? 13:30:55 LUB? 13:31:07 least upper bound 13:31:12 rast_: think of it from the perspective of those players who barely manage to contribute one win to their team, because they don't have much time, keep splatting, or whatever 13:31:16 as in weakest link? 13:31:29 elliptic: you can contribute by having high scores in individual race/class combos 13:31:34 as it is currently, they can feel like they made a noticeable contribution to their team 13:31:44 regardless of anything about the win 13:31:55 this is *good* IMO 13:31:57 meaning you take the best performance at each scorable thing, more or less 13:32:10 the downside of that is that the first win becomes expected 13:32:20 and if you can't do that you've missed a huge chunk 13:32:42 did anyone in Miranda get a win yet? 13:32:47 rast_: most people don't worry as much about team score as you seem to 13:32:55 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 13:33:18 "worry" is the wrong word 13:33:24 I think it can be improved 13:34:11 * SamB wonders if you can get "stabbing" bonuses for ranged 13:35:11 i dont think this is TES sorry 13:36:07 SamB: empirically it doesn't look like you can, but there may be an accuracy bonus? 13:37:03 sleeping things get no ev 13:37:11 or sh 13:37:15 -!- s951 has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:22 if that is what you mean 13:37:27 rast_: anyway, my advice is to think about the points that people *have* gotten rather than the points they have not 13:38:35 LexAckson: yeah, that's probably it 13:39:08 the point of all this is to have fun and play crawl, not to minmax the tourney scoring system 13:40:00 the toughest decision the tournament scoring gives me is whether to go for wins I can more easily do or work on greaterplayers 13:41:20 speaking of tourney scoring 13:41:32 what about adding bonus points for a couple of the banners that don't already give points 13:41:36 like speed demon 13:41:47 or nature's ally III 13:42:12 or ruthless efficiency 13:44:24 LexAckson: the banner is supposed to be the reward... currently only the banners that warp your entire game give points, because they require much more investment 13:44:54 speed demon is intended as a fun thing to do when you want to suicidally dive D for a while, and it gives a shiny banner 13:44:57 -!- WildSam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:45:21 the banners are rewards - if I notice I'm nearly at one, I push for it. (like the 27 hour win, or killing all the hellpan lords) 13:45:32 yeah 13:45:36 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:41 but some banners are also worth tourney points 13:45:44 maybe lorekeeper III should give points 13:45:51 inherently 13:46:29 LexAckson: oh, like Descent into Madness, or Pious, etc 13:46:37 yeah 13:47:32 there's also some vague idea that individual points are supposed to be based on "real" metrics of being a good player, and that weird/scummy stuff should be clan points if anything 13:48:24 maybe we could add some more little clan point things... like, 50-20-10 clan points for the quickest D:27 entrance 13:48:29 yeah 13:48:33 that would be cool 13:49:17 -!- keksz has left ##crawl-dev 13:49:37 I added the AC+EV thing this tourney because it just became trackable and I thought of it, but there's certainly a lot more that can be added 13:52:11 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:04 -!- voker57__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:06 * xFleury presumes that ##crawl is only so spammed with milestones because of the tournament. 13:56:10 well, there's something like double normal activity during a tournament 13:56:16 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/per-day.html 13:56:59 Wow, those are some cool graphs. 13:57:03 still a lot of milestones at other times, but you get pretty used to it 13:58:24 -!- Sticking has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:52 the AC+EV thing is fun 13:58:53 !lg * !boring year(end)>=2012 s=day(end) -graph 13:58:56 773898 games for * (!boring year(end)>=2012): http://shalott.org/graphs/dc8dbc28b796cc34abb13f9d44e47a34f8c40c27.html 13:59:02 just because something is a little scummy doesnt mean its bad 14:00:35 * xFleury feels clever after rotating the graph: http://i.imgur.com/OqsgSTZ.png 14:01:33 hm, apparently random pan lords show up when you lg killer=uniq 14:02:15 Zannick: yeah... you can do killer=uniq ckiller!=pandemonium_lord I think 14:02:19 yeah 14:02:23 i'm just amused 14:02:34 because now i can find all the names of the pan lords that killed people 14:02:48 256 of them 14:03:04 ??slings 14:03:05 sling[1/1]: Damage rating: 0 Accuracy rating: +2 Base attack delay: 11. Better than throwing rocks at a jelly, but only until you wield a cursed one. Can launch {stones} and {sling bullets}. The only one-handed ranged weapon - useful with shields. 14:03:22 none of them have the same name, of course 14:03:44 !lg * ckiller=pandemonium_lord s=killer 14:03:45 256 games for * (ckiller=pandemonium_lord): Joet, Psunoag, Bemneme, Froag, Teuxeqor, Clisajih the pandemonium lord, Giejisma, Faps the pandemonium lord, Coxkyf Noco, Phihulasm, Xedoivvy, Hegor, Toz Skir the pandemonium lord, Ohoir the pandemonium lord, Hehah the pandemonium lord, Vufesu, Buejupot, Falo, Dexash the pandemonium lord, Buajeig the pandemonium lord, Reqiowan, Sicruish, Evusm the pandem... 14:04:10 sadly some of the best panlord names were victims instead of killers 14:04:12 !lg . ckiller=pandemonium_lord s=killer 14:04:12 3 games for elliptic (ckiller=pandemonium_lord): Ghomiyst, Smud, Zaenic 14:04:47 sadly killed panlords don't become easily searchable milestones 14:04:58 Faps the pandemonium lord 14:05:07 !lg * ckiller=pandemonium_lord s=name 14:05:07 256 games for * (ckiller=pandemonium_lord): 7x 78291, 3x polystyrus, 3x DrPraetor, 3x Lawman0, 3x johnnyzero, 3x Elynae, 3x Grimm, 3x splat, 3x Jordan7hm, 3x Surr, 3x Tenaya, 3x Nexos, 2x caleba, 2x WalkerBoh, 2x Sky, 2x nago, 2x MrDingleBerry, 2x Leibowitz, 2x Atomjack, 2x hayenne, 2x moq, 2x bmfx, 2x magistern, 2x buffalo66, 2x m1nced, 2x jeanjacques, 2x Cyrus, 2x Turgon, 2x Rubinko, 2x DChimera... 14:05:10 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:38 I guess random pan lords giving milestones when killed wouldn't be the worst thing 14:05:49 not announced on ##crawl, of course 14:06:16 probably better just to count the number killed and add that as a field if we want that info though 14:06:53 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:11 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:10:17 ??ranged 14:10:18 ranged combat[1/4]: Nobody understands ranged combat. 14:10:20 ??ranged[2] 14:10:21 launcher damage[1/3]: Average damage = (B/2 + L/8 + A/16 + min((str - 10)*(2B+A)*C, (L+1)/4))*(1+skill/D)*(brand multiplier) + slaying/4 + A/2 + (L/2 if using xbow). Here A is the ammo enchantment, L is the launcher enchantment, and B, C, and D are constants depending on what type of launcher you are using (see [2]). 14:10:38 ??launcher damage[2] 14:10:38 launcher damage[2/3]: B = 4 for sling+stone, 6 for sling+bullet, 6.5 for bow+arrow, 9.5 for longbow+arrow or xbow+bolt. C = 1/72 for slings, 1/32 for bows, and 0 for xbows. D = 28 for slings, 34 for bows, and 44 for xbows. 14:10:44 ??launcher damage[3] 14:10:45 launcher damage[3/3]: that's quite complicated 14:10:56 -!- oddsox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:11:41 -!- StrixVaria_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:12:01 ??ammo enchantment 14:12:02 I don't have a page labeled ammo_enchantment in my learndb. 14:12:21 ammo enchantment is min(3, skill/3) 14:12:48 -!- gowby has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:14:56 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:54 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:00 -!- GhostInZSH is now known as BuddyChrist 14:17:01 -!- Porost_ is now known as Porost 14:18:23 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:18:26 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:42 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:17 * xFleury wishes there were a way to preserve some of http://i.imgur.com/MLwjYFK.png for Zot:5. 14:25:00 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:26:17 -!- kongtomorrow has quit [Quit: kongtomorrow] 14:27:48 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 14:31:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:34:19 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35:51 lol wtf ranged combat 14:37:05 I'm playing a HaHu, so sue me 14:37:14 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:06 why is the formula so complicated? 14:38:19 nothing against playing the charaters 14:40:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:41:31 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 24.0a1/20130516031004]] 14:43:54 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:45:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:33 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:46:46 -!- sacje has quit [Quit: sacje] 14:48:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:52:17 -!- kongtomorrow has quit [Client Quit] 14:52:19 so like 14:53:38 (L+1)/4 is almost always less than (str-10)*(2B+A)*C 14:53:41 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:28 probably not when str <= 10 though ;-) 14:54:45 if a de uses krishna 14:54:50 yeah 14:55:19 -!- TheKraken has quit [Quit: TheKraken] 14:55:23 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 14:56:05 my point is 14:56:21 that str will almost never count 14:56:25 unless it's really low 14:56:53 -!- Enthash2 has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 14:57:02 true 14:57:58 Strength won't count if it's high either. 14:58:14 Because picking Cheibriados over Okawaru for ranged seems pretty stupid. 14:58:31 Considering finesse is practically doubled average damage. 14:58:40 i was saying that str won't count 14:58:43 so yeah 14:59:14 * SamB grows tired of dying as HaHu 14:59:17 -!- sepik121 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:24 but theres no longer and ammo enchantment? 14:59:24 heh 14:59:27 *any 14:59:31 right 15:00:23 yeah, we should probably add that thing elliptic said as ??ammo_enchantment or something 15:00:25 and launcher enchantment hardly seems to mkatetr for non-xbow 15:00:39 *matter 15:00:46 i feel like L+1/4 is intended to be a cap on how much str can add to dmg 15:00:52 any suggestions for what to try next, or should I just try HOPr again? 15:00:56 but it's a pretty severe restriction 15:01:07 TrHu 15:02:31 even if it was (L+1) 15:02:31 ugh i need syntax higlight just to sort out those parentheses 15:03:07 it would be limiting to some characters 15:03:10 -!- Locke37 has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 15:03:23 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:00 * SamB remembers when TrHu came with a stack of +1 rocks 15:04:10 man 15:04:14 those were the days 15:04:24 0.10 hehe 15:04:39 min((str - 10)*(2B+A)*C, (L+1)/4) 15:05:07 so basically (L+1)/4 or possibly less 15:05:21 yeah 15:05:27 and are strength and dex not in the formula at all? anywhere? 15:05:27 And what's (L+1)/4? 15:05:32 str 15:05:33 i know they are in the launcher speed formula 15:05:50 LexAckson: yeah but the mix part basically mans str doesnt matter as long as its at least 11 15:05:53 *min 15:05:58 not 11 15:05:59 yea 15:06:03 you need higher than that 15:06:04 that's what i was saying above 15:06:04 the plus on the launcher, plus 1 15:06:33 what file is this in? 15:06:39 2B*A is going to be a big number most likely 15:07:02 first it is 2B+A, second C is small 15:07:02 2B+A 15:07:11 oh, right 15:07:14 IMO you shouldn't even try to understand this formula though 15:07:24 haha 15:07:26 since the plan is to completely rewrite everything from scratch 15:07:29 detete and start over 15:07:30 yeah 15:07:34 LexAckson: this stuff is in throw.cc if you really want to look 15:07:38 so even if A is 0, 2b is going to be about 19 for longbow/xbow 15:07:50 are we just going to delete throw.cc and write another one 15:07:52 Ranged weapons currently are strange and yet overpowered, 15:07:56 Or is my information outdated. 15:08:02 (like everything else) 15:08:12 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:08:24 who is working on the rewrite of this? 15:08:31 nobody currently afaik 15:08:45 is there a wiki page? 15:08:49 kilobyte or cryp71c might have done some work towards it in the past, not sure 15:08:57 okay, cool 15:08:58