00:00:26 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-155-g4b4baf2 00:00:40 bh: snapdragons need to be on list of plant monsters for forest branch :) 00:01:29 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-546-g04ec835 (34) 00:03:37 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11.2-14-g2e91b11 (33) 00:04:03 mumra: melee plant with reach? 00:05:37 yeah ... we still have to get around the problem of slow-moving / stationary monsters being boring 00:05:54 easy? they shoot out tendrils to establish a new body and the main body dies? 00:06:06 now you're reading my mind ;) 00:06:26 more likely we've both encountered plants 00:06:33 hehe true 00:07:31 maybe they could have some crazy 3-tile reach as well 00:07:39 alligator snapping dragons 00:08:13 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-b1-155-g4b4baf2 (34) 00:08:13 ouch. What if they could hit you, dealing minimal damage at 3, and then drag you in if you just stood around? 00:08:53 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:04 i was thinking about a venus fly trap type monster than could maybe drag you in (or something where it swallows you and starts digesting you but that could be nasty) 00:09:30 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:09:37 would that be like nethack engulfing 00:09:48 but yeah generally plants need to move around by growth rather than normal movement, of course we don't want this to mean they all basically act like ballistos 00:10:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:00 st_: yeah, i wasn't familiar with engulfing ... i'm not sure how well it'd work anyway 00:13:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-546-g04ec835 (34) 00:16:09 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:27 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:40 mumra: how about a grass monster. You always displace it if you hit it. It moves by 'growing' at you and you take damage based on how many are around you (like every other monster...) 00:28:22 <|amethyst> bh: could put it in Blade 00:28:35 |amethyst: *groan* 00:28:48 |amethyst: did you take a look at my vault? I hope you like it 00:30:30 <|amethyst> indeed 00:30:45 did I depth it properly? 00:30:58 <|amethyst> no clue about that 00:31:12 <|amethyst> I'd consider lowering the weight because of the guaranteed fixed spellbook 00:31:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:23 <|amethyst> but I guess that might not be so big of a deal 00:32:09 <|amethyst> it doesn't seem very circular 00:32:38 drawing circles is hard. Feel free to change the layout 00:32:42 ??book of dreams 00:32:42 book of dreams[1/1]: Ensorcelled Hibernation, Alistair's Intoxication, Flight, Phase Shift, Shadow Creatures 00:32:45 <|amethyst> :) 00:32:49 isn't that book kind of shitty? 00:33:00 it has some good spells 00:33:04 they are just sort of random 00:33:28 ??alistair's intoxication 00:33:28 alistairs intoxication[1/1]: L4 Transmutation-Poison spell. Has a (40 + power/3)% (max 73%) chance of confusing each natural, non-poison resistant monster in line of sight with greater than animal intelligence. Has a (60 - power/3)% chance of affecting you, even with rPois, if you do not have a source of clarity. Also drains 1-3 points of intelligence 5% of the time. 00:33:38 I have never once cast that spell 00:33:44 <|amethyst> one of two books with Phase Shift and one of two books with Shadow Creatures 00:34:07 <|amethyst> I haven't used AI since it was nerfed, but that's not necessarily because of the nerf 00:34:13 |amethyst: it has implied concentric rings 00:35:52 <|amethyst> bh: I guess three? it seems like the SW/NE ring if completed would overlap with the NW/SE one 00:36:58 AI is okay, maybe a bit underpowered just because it has awkward schools 00:37:56 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:29 <|amethyst> bh: maybe concentric full circles with the "ruin" tag, but the level of ruin isn't really tunable (other than thicker walls) 00:39:26 I didn't realize there was such a tag. 00:40:05 <|amethyst> bh: the only reason I do was because I dug around in the Lair ruination code some time ago 00:40:23 I think it might even be documented? 00:40:52 it'd be pretty easy to add an lua call for that if there isn't one already 00:40:58 then the parameters can be controlled 00:41:16 yeah, it's documented 00:41:56 I plead ignorance when it comes to lua. 00:42:03 mumra: is the documentation on layout_foo up-to-date? 00:42:19 hmm 00:42:25 depends which layout_foo you're talking about 00:42:35 the TAGS 00:42:45 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:42:53 oh right, they're not normally layout_foo 00:43:16 layout_foo is usually the name of a specific layout 00:43:52 yeah, but is the list of values for "foo" up to date ? 00:44:33 -!- letmeon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:44:34 mostly but i think there are two sets of documentation that may or may not be out of sync; depending whether you're looking at devwiki or the docs folder 00:44:42 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:49 but most of the tags are listed correctly 00:44:53 I'm looking at syntax.txt 00:44:57 with djinn incoming, could we use a djinn unique? 00:44:59 I always look there 00:45:25 <|amethyst> mumra: syntax.txt says: "Current values for "foo" are: rooms, city, open, caves, cross, abyss, basic, delve, misc, shoals, swamp, labyrinth (though currently random vaults aren't placed in the last three)" 00:45:42 <|amethyst> mumra: I thought there were a lot more than that now 00:45:45 oh riight sorry, those layout_foos 00:46:06 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-546-g04ec835 00:46:16 a lot of the new ones actually fitted into one of those categories fairly well so i haven't added many new ones 00:46:45 mumra: I suspected that might be happening, whether consciously or not 00:47:15 these are the values of the layout_type setting so it made sense to treat them as broad categories rather than each layout having a separate tag 00:47:35 although layouts can specify more than one layout type so we could have more specific ones if there are issues with certain vaults 00:47:48 since on the layouts I saw you seemed to set the string to something generic *followed* by something more specific 00:48:04 yeah, i haven't always included the more specific version though 00:48:20 since that seems to defeat the purpose really 00:48:35 and as far as i'm aware, not many vaults are actually using these tags 00:48:41 well I wasn't sure anything but the first word mattered for these 00:48:50 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:54 yeah, I suspected so 00:49:06 (about not many using the tags) 00:49:17 for some reason I like docs to be accurate anyway ;-) 00:49:27 that's a fair point :) 00:50:59 wizard (06@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 26-54 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(53) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 690 | Sp: b.venom (3d15), mystic blast (3d15), invisibility, confuse, slow, teleport self / magic dart (3d5), paralyse, haste, b.lightning (3d17), confuse, teleport self / paralyse, throw flame (3d8), invisibility, teleport other, fireball (3d19) / petrify, crystal spear (3d28), blink, b.fire (3d18), b.cold (3d18), minor healing / stone arrow (3d17), sting (d10), blink, b.lightning (3d17), banishment, minor healing | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 00:50:59 %??wizard 00:51:01 as some point i'm meaning to review those tags and which vaults are using them and check it all makes sense 00:51:16 |amethyst: guess what I'm making for a vault... 00:51:32 does it have vault renamed monsters! 00:51:38 no. 00:51:55 <|amethyst> A pink corner? With a man on it? 00:52:08 a hexagonal room with a shaft in the centre 00:52:09 that's a lotta spell sets! 00:53:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:18 bh: i think the grass idea is good btw; what will be interesting is having a few mechanics like this that work well together (and possibly in collaboration with spriggans and other fauna...) 00:54:51 1. you *always* move through it, 2. it slows your movement 00:54:58 would it be weird to hit *and* displace something? 00:57:01 it might be better to have it so it's as though you're actually standing on it 00:57:13 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:24 this has been discussed with regards to swarms 00:57:32 yes, that's what i was thinking 00:59:17 <|amethyst> bh: pampas grass for the gauchos? 00:59:25 ? 00:59:41 <|amethyst> since you're on a Borges kick 00:59:49 I'll get there. 01:01:23 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortaderia_selloana 01:01:36 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 01:04:10 |amethyst: https://gist.github.com/bhickey/5493970 01:04:48 <|amethyst> haha 01:05:01 <|amethyst> I like the title 01:05:35 :) 01:06:05 it might be really dangerous at lower levels 01:08:47 though the shafts provide a reliable out 01:08:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:00 bh: single-use, though, innit? 01:09:15 SamB: hum-hum? 01:09:25 ??shaft 01:09:26 shaft[1/6]: A trap that drops you one, two, or three levels. A cool escape route if you're desperate. Try not to fall down one and land directly in a jelly pit. Disappears when used. 01:09:41 ah 01:09:58 probably reliable enough ... 01:10:13 If you can't handle a wizard on D:14, you're probably doomed 01:11:02 wizards are pretti bad 01:12:16 ??git 01:12:16 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 01:12:30 -!- rphillips has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:13:58 Cryp71c: what did you do that you needed to check ??git ??? 01:15:10 -!- rphillips has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:53 SamB, setup a new VM and was too lazy to get onto gitorious for the clone url. 01:16:58 I never have memorized it. 01:17:23 kids these days with their VMs 01:18:40 * SamB heads to bed, manages not to mispell it as bead this time 01:19:12 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-547-g2c9a494: Library of Babel vault 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c9a494c8f1d 01:20:03 -!- rphillips has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:07 -!- rphillips has quit [Client Quit] 01:28:04 ??compile crawl 01:28:04 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:04 compile crawl[1/2]: [Linux] You'll need git, build-essential, zlib1g-dev, libncurses5-dev, libncursesw5-dev, then "git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git; cd DCSS; git submodule update --init; cd crawl-ref/sources/; make [options]" 01:38:17 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:28 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:58:04 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:59 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:59 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:04:11 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:15:16 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:57 -!- Sabaki has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:18:03 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:03 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:49 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:25:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:33 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:33:36 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:02 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:44:14 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 02:46:23 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:33 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:06 -!- magicallyrical is now known as syraine 02:57:21 -!- syraine has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:31 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:37 -!- tcjc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04:58 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 03:09:06 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:10:14 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:11:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:26 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:30:05 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:51:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:02 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:13:49 -!- Zauren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:24:11 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:24:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:03 -!- theglow2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:38:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:24 -!- hurdos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:26 -!- eb has quit [] 04:55:47 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:53 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:20 galehar: silly talk about AI. Players != designers. 05:32:57 ~ 05:33:00 oops 05:33:35 Is it true that the tournament starts today? 05:35:59 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 05:41:50 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:42:32 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:44:05 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:16:56 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:21:11 no, although we're supposed to release 0.12 06:21:11 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:22:36 !tell bh I think subraces are a bad idea; also, I see no single reason to not simply tweak djinn Chrm/Hex aptitudes. I simply never put any thought there. 06:22:36 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 06:23:18 kilobyte: http://sprunge.us/TSaA might be of interest; a quick hack to give djinn a contam bar (which should be quite useful with the glow mechanics) rather than the (imo weird) second essence bar. could use cleaner implementation and I'm not sure the scale on the bar is perfect, though 06:23:49 also, madreisz has been testing/termcasting them (with that contam bar patch, for some portion of the game), he got a djfe to the end of lair 06:24:30 !tell bh as for efreet, they're a djinn variant. According to some sources, merely evil ones, according to others, a separate creature, basically a helldjinn. Ie, spewing fire, living in hell, etc. 06:24:30 kilobyte: OK, I'll let bh know. 06:25:38 elliott: could work, yeah 06:26:55 elliott: shouldn't be biased by 1/2 of a glyph, though -- that was something to double the resolution of the EP bar, by rounding the upper one 0.5 glyph higher 06:28:19 oh, right; just an oversight 06:28:27 a minor one, too 06:31:54 -!- Porost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:32:30 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:33:25 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:04 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:38:49 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:40:28 no nausea is nice btw 06:41:42 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42:19 so having djinn be foodless is not needed anymore? 06:42:55 hehe 06:43:25 i think having a second foodless race should be fun 06:44:10 they're less than foodless, actually 06:44:44 with eating races, you can butcher a yak or two and go wild with level 9 spells or channeling 06:52:12 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:33 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:16 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:33 a weird thing: with current state, you can have a good pure melee djinni of Sif -- just waste enough xp for magic skills to keep piety at * (**?) 07:06:47 her channeling doesn't depend on piety 07:07:24 success rate does, but with effectiveness strongly depending on Invoc, you'll have more than enough anyway 07:07:27 it seems to me like djinn should just be unable to use channeling/regeneration/self-sublim ffects 07:07:27 kilobyte: that's more a problem of how Sif gives piety though 07:07:42 i don't think it makes sense for them to be able to 07:09:48 elliott: self-sublim obviously, but channeling seems ok to me (a magic race), just needs balancing. And it's easy to nerf or overnerf if we want to. 07:09:49 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:10:43 actually, you have a point about the Regen spell 07:10:51 at least unless it has some cost 07:11:33 lose 6 EP and a turn, gain quite a bit more -- a no brainer 07:11:43 rings of regen and/or troll leather, too 07:12:00 MUT_FAST_HEALING 07:12:26 or MUT_SLOW_HEALING for that matter, especially level 3 07:12:45 well, level 3 is bad for all :P 07:13:12 yeah but a conjurer/summoner of other races can handle it 07:16:41 I wouldn't do anything regarding all sources of HP/MP regeneration for now. Then let everyone play Dj for a while, and we'll see which knobs to twiddle. 07:18:27 * dpeg wonders if we should list species on the starting screen according to "mundane" (no perks, i.e. only aptitudes), "single perk" (e.g. only size, armour restrictions), "more perks". 07:18:31 later! 07:19:06 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:19 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 07:21:11 Well, I think passive sources of regen like rings and such are fine to them. I actually think it's interesting that they could also benefit your mp regen here. As for the regeneration SPELL, perhaps it could just come with some additional glow penalty to discourage constant use as an mp regen source while still making it useful in that role on a more sparing basis? 07:21:12 DracoOmega: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:23:02 Incidentally, I do like the idea of them getting temp mutations from glow as opposed to normal ones 07:23:28 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:40 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:47 Since that would seem to allow more play with going into overdrive during scary times for a penalty afterward instead of this being something you just avoid at all costs 07:24:13 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:18 also, glowsplosions. 07:24:32 Heh 07:24:50 i am serious. glowsplosion-based tactics are important to support 07:25:30 It would be amusing if djinn somehow made that a not-always-completely-terrible plan, somehow :P 07:26:37 would need keeping different thresholds for mutations and glowsplosions, though 07:26:59 Yes, possibly. But I think temp mutations would allow the system to be more 'fluid' 07:27:11 self-damage from glowsplosions is pretty high, though 07:27:15 Since conventional bad ones as a potential cost for hunger things sounds like it could encourage fairly cautious play in that regard 07:27:20 especially if you're undead (lich form) 07:27:45 Yes, I'm not seriously expecting glowsplosion-as-offense to be a good idea :P 07:29:24 Incidentally, does anyone think haunt sickening you if you're not with Kiku is actually interesting? 07:30:11 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:30:16 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:22 you're in a combat situation then, so it's not without merit 07:30:27 unlike food sickness 07:30:35 Though you're also in a combat situation where you're least likely to get engaged yourself 07:31:04 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:47 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:52 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:55 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:49:08 Also, are we going to be on track to release today? :) 07:53:20 I'm testing Windows installs as we speak 07:53:30 Yay 07:54:15 you test in-tree builds daily, but players use C:\Program Files\Crawl\ 07:54:55 also, the changelog 07:55:16 Do the windows versions for later OSs stash save files in a userdata directory or something, incidentally? 07:55:20 I'm not sure if newnewvaults are even a highlight: a good deal of branches got new layouts 07:55:21 Or still inside the Crawl folder? 07:55:28 Newnewvaults are definitely a hilight 07:55:46 The layout is extremely noticable there compared to many of those other branches, as far as I am concerned 07:55:53 vaults got new monsters too, and the layouts are v. noticeable 07:57:57 -!- antlions has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- antlions1 has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:11 I start to wonder why I'm adjusting wording if native speakers can do this better. 08:01:45 just pushed my changelog edits to stone_soup-0.12 08:04:00 re regen: the "problem" seems to be that hp and mp are shared. thats the main feature of the species. best not to take that away without a very good reason. 08:04:50 alefury: rings of regen being better is probably not a problem, yeah 08:05:10 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:05:13 it's just the spell that has no costs 08:05:48 The hilight about Vaults ought to mention the monsters, too, I think. (And this may sound a little biased, but I think Beogh improvements and such also merit a point, given how many players seem to care about this end of things) 08:06:02 kilobyte: i dont think the regen spell is a problem 08:06:20 not a major one anyway 08:07:06 certainly not if the increased hunger from having regen status counts as magical hunger 08:07:18 I released the commit lock anyway, please go wild on the changelog 08:07:37 DracoOmega: wanna write a release post? 08:07:46 I need to step away for a bit now, but I'll have a look when I get back 08:08:03 alefury: I suppose I could unless someone else gets there first :) 08:08:20 last time i had to do it, and im one of the least qualified persons for that job... 08:08:47 (mpa made it nice to read afterwards) 08:10:13 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-156-gca1b8af: Changelong: list the highlights. 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca1b8af0db66 08:10:13 03kilobyte 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-157-gc6c88bd: Changelog: don't use imperative form. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c6c88bd9acdc 08:20:17 so release is today for sure? 08:22:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:25:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:05 are mark alarm traps in 0.12? 08:27:31 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:59 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:43 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:34:51 yes 08:35:26 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:35:52 (editing the changelog a bit) 08:36:42 how verbose do we want to be? 08:37:02 e.g. "* Dragon form can use wands again." 08:38:11 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 08:38:19 some of the lines are badly over-verbose, yeah 08:41:18 that "changelong" above wasn't intentional, but it's true 08:42:00 IMO remove "Zin's vitalisation protects against paralysing attacks." 08:42:23 <|amethyst> I thought that was removed? 08:42:30 As it's only wasps basically. And people might think it protects against more. 08:42:36 <|amethyst> oh, I guess not 08:42:36 -!- ophanim has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:47 <|amethyst> I agree 08:44:11 <|amethyst> (yes, it was me who added it; my only excuse was that it was 5 in the morning 08:44:15 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:44:15 <|amethyst> ) 08:45:42 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:33 is the summon nerf a highlight? 08:46:56 <|amethyst> hm... perhaps 08:47:03 its pretty important, and people might not notice 08:47:06 <|amethyst> yeah 08:47:57 <|amethyst> alefury: If you're picking highlights... I'm sure you're putting the Cj book there but Napkin pointed out it's easy to miss that this effectively makes Cj a different background 08:48:42 <|amethyst> alefury: When trying 0.12-a for the first time he was sad that there were no new races/backgrounds until I pointed out the Cj thing 08:48:55 good point 08:49:16 when im done, should i make a patch or just put stuff on some pastebin thingy? 08:49:37 <|amethyst> patch is easiest, git format-patch especially 08:52:19 actually, the summon nerf is so unobvious it needs to be put into highlights for this reason 09:00:54 Combine WebTiles messages and send them together by Medar 09:01:22 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:01:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:09 monster tmut miscasts from plutonium sword are extra damage and polymorph, right? 09:05:11 alefury: has anyone mentioned the yred/beogh improvements? 09:05:20 i didnt get there yet 09:05:25 im at items 09:05:33 updating highlights later 09:10:57 <|amethyst> alefury: from the code it looks like ENCH_WRETCHED, petrify, and confusion are also possible 09:11:12 <|amethyst> but I haven't tried 09:14:57 meh, i just shortened the fixedart section instead of explaining what tmut miscasts mean for monsters 09:15:12 also, daaaaamn i want to find plutonium sword 09:15:30 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:39 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:02 is someone on XP here? A strange thing while testing: it claims a zip file is damaged; I can access it with anything else. 09:18:37 i have a vm 09:19:02 me too, that's where it fails 09:19:41 http://angband.pl/tmp/stone_soup-0.12-b1-157-gc6c88bd-tiles-win32.zip 09:20:15 waaait.... got it, the user whom I'm testing as has greek and cyrillic characters in the user name, it breaks Windows' zip 09:20:57 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:28 I guess this would be nice for 0.12: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6990 09:23:30 were there a lot of changes to the default options? 09:23:48 -!- minced has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:49 i know action counts is default now, anything else? 09:23:50 And this is a nasty bug: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6837 09:23:58 But the patch isn't trivial, I guess 09:24:27 in most non-standard dialects of Polish, "vista" is plural imperative of "hang". Judging from what happens when doing basic tasks like opening a SMB mount, Microsoft chose this name on purpose. 09:25:36 Hi. I've been playing Trunk and would like to give some feedback on the new Vehumet and on Jorgrun. Where's the best place to do so? 09:25:38 Medar: you know 0.12 isn't final, right? the online builds get updated with bugfixes, and point releases are also done occasionally for local players 09:25:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:54 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:25:56 doesnt mean bugs should stay, but there's no rush to get bugfixes in at the last second 09:26:08 especially for webtiles 09:26:09 If all the online servers rebuild 0.12, then yeah 09:26:27 <|amethyst> all the ones that have webtiles do daily rebuilds of stable 09:26:33 <|amethyst> CDO did not 09:26:49 minced: here 09:26:53 <|amethyst> (rather, CDO did not for webtiles) 09:27:01 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:27:09 Ok, it's cool then 09:28:21 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:28:37 enough testing of Windows packaging, I think 09:28:59 Ah. Regarding Vehumet, I appreciate that he needed a nerf, but I found the new version very difficult to play, as getting 5-6 mostly irrelevant spells (bolt of draining etc.) with no guaranteed IMB made him outright inferior to Sif Muna. If he gave a choice of two spells to learn at each piety tick, or the spells were somewhat more relevant to the caster's learned schools, I think he'd still be playable. 09:29:47 everything works everywhere, save for tiles being corrupted but that's a known graphics driver problem (why do we use GL for 2D, again?), and Windows behaving as Windows does 09:30:35 veh change was more of a buff 09:30:38 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:30:45 since you get spells much much earlier now 09:30:52 minced: spells from the opposites of your trained elemental schools are rarely offered 09:31:03 ie, complaints when opening a zip file that "this page contains an unknown security error", complaining that the installer "comes from an unknown publisher and can damage your computer", etc 09:31:25 elliott: i found that to be pretty irrelevant, wizards are probably the only ones who get a lot of use out of that 09:31:26 It's not like you need to have spell gifts to play a succesful caster 09:31:51 galehar: do you have the Android toolchain in working order? 09:32:19 where are the default options again in the source? 09:32:19 <|amethyst> alefury: non-casting backgrounds too 09:32:29 right, because those use veh all the time 09:32:50 alefury: initfile.cc 09:32:53 thanks 09:33:11 <|amethyst> reset_options() in particular 09:33:20 <|amethyst> also dat/defaults/* 09:34:22 <|amethyst> (well, specifically the ones that are listed in config_defaults, which is also in initfile.cc, but not in reset_options) 09:34:37 Medar: True, but Vehumet's "niche" is dedicated destructive casters, and their spells go obsolete quickly, so Vehumet really does need to give gifts. Because he doesn't give that MANY gifts before you reach ***** piety, and gifts are extremely infrequent from that point onward, it's important that the early gifts are relevant. 09:35:36 vehumet still gives superwizardry for destructive spells early 09:35:58 which is useful for those characters fortunate enough to start with them! 09:36:34 I do think that the first few gifts could use a little buffing, will probably do that in 0.13 09:36:59 Elliptic: Yeah. I still found Vehumet playable because of superwizardry, but it's not as much FUN to play when that's the only way he was helpful. 09:37:08 <|amethyst> I like the idea of giving you a choice for the first two gifts 09:37:14 most backgrounds start with good enough destructive spells to get you through a looong way 09:37:19 <|amethyst> but making that clear in the interface seems problematic 09:37:24 |amethyst: that's not the problem anyway 09:37:26 <|amethyst> s/two/few/ 09:37:28 well, all elementalists and conjurers 09:37:38 ive found veh more fun now 09:37:43 |amethyst: the problem is that the first few gifts are low-level, which works well for chars who don't start with destructive spells 09:37:47 but less so for those who do 09:37:59 Medar: i really want to apply your webtiles packet combining patch patch already and see if it actually makes it playable! unfortunately should probably wait for edlothiol ... 09:38:22 giving players a choice of sandblast and shock on their FE won't make the first gift better 09:38:49 <|amethyst> hm 09:38:50 mumra: Yeah, I'm curious myself :p Testing with emulated lag on wizard mode just isn't the same 09:38:57 Medar: i also do wonder about inflate.js which is causing the opera problems. packet compression might save bandwidth but it doesn't always actually improve performance - e.g. if you're on fast internet but a slow client ... 09:39:07 But yeah, I'm not sure what the policy with client.js changes is 09:39:50 I could do some benchmarking on the deflate/compress times, but I would assume they are worth it 09:39:58 <|amethyst> mumra: are there clients fast enough to run webtiles but slow enough that inflate and gzip can't be done at faster-than-wire speed? 09:40:33 Medar: are literally all packets getting compressed and then inflated? presumably a lot of them are tiny and get barely any benefit from compression. on the other hand cycles are still spent at both ends attempting that compression anyway ... 09:40:33 <|amethyst> s/wire/internet/ 09:41:07 |amethyst: i'm not sure, but if a packet is say 10 bytes then what's the point of spending cycles compressing it? 09:41:07 Yep, everything is compressed AFAIK 09:41:19 <|amethyst> I thought the whole stream was compressed 09:41:26 Although, maybe the actual compress method skips small ones, haven't checked 09:41:26 <|amethyst> not each packet individually 09:41:37 elliptic: what's the idea, weight initial gifts bi alreadi-memorised spells? 09:41:47 i think vehumet should get to the high level spells sooner 09:41:56 takes forever to get level 9's 09:42:14 Nope, each message is compressed individually. Although maybe some WebSocket implementations have compress-extension that's used instead, not sure. 09:42:18 |amethyst: it was my understanding it was per-packet, since the stream is transmitted as packets. it would be way better if there were compression built into websockets of course 09:42:21 <|amethyst> oh 09:42:22 ah right 09:42:26 mumra: just think how many cycles it takes to compress a 10 byte packet 09:42:34 <|amethyst> yeah, that could be an issue then 09:42:50 kilobyte: it's more the client-side decompression which is done in javascript that i'm worried about ... 09:43:00 is every packet compressed individually, or with stored common state? 09:43:09 <|amethyst> and I was forgetting that we do javascript deflate when clients don't support it natively 09:43:18 LexAckson: people complained a *lot* originally that they were getting level 9's too early... you still get them at like XL 16ish normally, which seems plenty early 09:43:18 Oh, btw, I think one way to improve the network performance for WebTiles, is to use two (or more) WebSocket connections :P 09:43:29 sure it won't take long, but if we're saving 2 bytes of transmission then it has to be very fast to save any real time ... 09:43:48 Medar: that is quite interesting 09:43:59 <|amethyst> mumra: two bytes probably doesn't save anything because of framing 09:44:06 exactly 09:44:08 <|amethyst> mumra: err, padding in frames 09:44:24 elliott: maybe, yes... I'm not sure of the best way of doing it that isn't a bit spoily (like, we don't want veh worshippers to memorize spells just to improve the first couple of gifts) 09:44:53 the gifts could also just improve in level a little faster at the start for everyone 09:45:04 i don't know how big the packets typically are but the only _big_ packets are sure on level change (and they're really really slow anyway) 09:45:27 <|amethyst> elliptic: if you only count destructive spells, then it's not necessarily that spoily 09:45:28 s/sure/surely 09:45:29 elliptic: i see. i was just comparing with old vehumet, where you would get them in the book at ******. what about making the spells avalible for a larger window? i remember missing a bunch. 09:46:30 anyway, optimisation is a funny game; i'm just wondering if the packet compression was added as a result of performance tests or was possibly premature optimisation in the most part ... 09:47:21 mumra: actual server->client updates can be compressed a lot 09:48:03 <|amethyst> "more than 90% in many situations" but that's not necessarily "testing" per se 09:48:14 <|amethyst> 90% bandwidth savings 09:48:54 even if somehow lag itself is not decreased, bandwidth costs per byte not per packet :) 09:48:58 <|amethyst> It would be nice to do a study on packet latency 09:49:40 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:49 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not an issue for CSZO, but CSZO has really cheap bandwidth 09:50:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm at something like 5% of my cap 09:51:09 that's with 90% savings, see what would happen without them if you ran nothing but Crawl 09:51:26 ok, ok, there's still actual tile files, etc 09:51:49 <|amethyst> yeah, no idea how much of that is webtiles 09:52:26 could be interesting to run a stand-alone client and see how big updates are 09:53:50 I wonder how much of that bandwidth usage is sending the .js+.png and how much is actual game messages 09:54:27 Medar: easy: do it once actual tiles have already been sent 09:54:39 * kilobyte goes to set up a temp webtiles server 09:55:05 I'm more wondering about real world usage 09:55:05 js png and html should definitely be compressed (but that's usually handled by the webserver and browser anyway) 09:55:23 on a 100% idle machine, the only idle one I have is arm, so it'll take a while 09:55:35 (doing a LTO build too, for further testing, and further wait) 09:55:43 As if you are playing the same version, the files only have to be sent once, and will remain in browser cache 09:55:58 Currently though, any version update and all the images etc. will be downloaded again 09:56:04 <|amethyst> Medar: if you do instrumentation I'll install a version that tracks that stuff on CSZO 09:56:06 -!- Egglet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:41 <|amethyst> I guess maybe I could do something with Squid in the middle, but that introduces a confounding variable 09:56:57 <|amethyst> (and a potentially quit significant one) 09:57:01 <|amethyst> s/quit/quite/ 09:58:02 I don't think I care enough atm. 09:58:50 |amethyst: that's overkill, to isolate stuff it's enough to set it up on an idle machine and manually check stats 09:59:22 <|amethyst> check what stats? 09:59:40 look at interface stats, login. Check stats. Let the game start, check stats. Make a move, stat. Wait a turn, stat. Climb stairs, stat. 09:59:48 just RX/TX 10:00:16 <|amethyst> oh, since at that point everything is messages 10:00:16 Regarding Jorgrun, he is very tactically interesting because he can kill you when you're out of LOS, but I think shatter is too much for a unique that can spawn on Snake:2. It presents a damned if you do/ damned if you don't scenario where teleporting away leaves you vulnerable to petrify/LRD, and running away gets you killed by shatter. 10:00:18 we're interesting in how many packets/bytes a single update has 10:01:48 Well that stuff you can do easily by adding couple of debug prints or whatever too. Or with wireshark. 10:02:07 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:16 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:19 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:03:51 -!- Wensley is now known as ellyott 10:03:58 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:06:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:09:06 -!- ellyott is now known as Wensley 10:10:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:57 -!- rphillips has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 10:17:12 im done with my changelog changes 10:17:20 who wants a patch, and how? 10:19:50 actually: http://pastebin.ca/2370857 10:20:20 i can push that in a bit, just doing some tutorial fixes too 10:27:16 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:27:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:29:09 Looks like for single moves on Firefox the deflate times are 0-6ms, mostly 1-2ms. 10:29:34 Using stairs between two fully mapped levels, it's 10-30ms, mostly around 15ms. 10:33:12 Its been a long time since I got a weapon of elec so early..this is crazy. 10:35:15 Same results on Chrome. 10:35:46 On a side note, it's much harder to get rid of cached .js on Chrome than FF 10:36:39 Yes it is. Exporting a new function in client.js causes problems. 10:36:50 FF always sends If-Modified-Since it seems 10:36:56 Medar, click and drag down on the refresh button, there is a "empty cache and reload" 10:37:05 Cryp71c: Oh, thanks 10:38:22 Medar: what actual size are the packets? (i'm interested in single moves rather than interlevel) 10:38:55 (although moving between levels does take noticably ages, especially with a fullscreen browser on 1080p...) 10:39:02 I haven't tested it, but I think the problem with the caching is that client.html is using require.js. There's a thread about the caching issue here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8315088/prevent-requirejs-from-caching-required-scripts 10:40:40 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:41:17 CKyle: i'm not sure if that's the problem -- and the comments in that stackoverflow question indicate that it's not a normal problem but something to do with the setup of that person's server anyway ... 10:42:19 packets are compressed using a shared state, so there's a lot of savings even for small packets (and the framing is two bytes for small packets) 10:42:19 edlothiol: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:42:23 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 10:42:56 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:43:15 Yeah, the savings seem quite significant for sure 10:44:10 Cryp71c: any chance you could remove 'mana' from mana shield and its other mutations? it's the first mention of the term in crawl afaik and it makes it sounds more like modern mmos. (I know the term predates them, but if it hasn't been in crawl before...) 10:44:17 does the client perform any decompression on _outgoing_ packets? 10:44:36 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:57 rchandra: it's used in a few places 10:45:06 mumra: Depends a lot where you are, but the map message was 600-2000 bytes uncompressed in a quick test. Compressed around 50-170 bytes. 10:45:26 mpr("You feel your mana capacity is already quite full."); 10:45:27 etc 10:45:34 it is? my apologies then. 10:45:43 mumra: you mean, compression? no 10:45:58 There are also 2 input_mode packets and one player packet for each normal move. Those are 30-50 bytes uncompressed each, and 5-15 bytes compressed 10:45:59 it mainly seems to be used in relation to +MP items 10:48:07 Medar: according to my calculations, on my internet connection, i can receive 2k (i.e. the max packet size) in 1ms. But apparently this takes 6ms to decompress. Unless I'm missing something 10:48:32 oh wait 10:48:41 the 2k packet was the interlevel message? 10:48:49 if we only had 7ms lag total, we wouldn't have any problem 10:48:59 Nope, just moving around 10:49:11 right. 10:50:02 i'm on a 20mbit connection, which means i can see around 2mb/sec in optimal conditions. i'm just saying the decompression time is longer than it takes to just transmit the uncompressed data... 10:50:04 elliptic: we use "mana" a lot internally, but hardly at all in what the player can see 10:50:09 Keep in mind, those were some quick benchmarks with console.time. Might be off. 10:50:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:30 kilobyte: it looks like maybe just for the messages about +MP items, yes 10:50:46 (though there are quite a few of such messages) 10:52:14 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:20 03edlothiol 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-158-g82374f7: Enable gzip encoding for Webtiles (Medar). 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82374f79438e 10:52:20 03Kyle Fox 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-159-gef414e7: Enabled aptitudes and species info hotkeys to work when selecting character. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 24+ 16-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef414e71a167 10:52:20 03edlothiol 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-160-g15dd3a7: Simplify and rename a function. 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 5+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=15dd3a7e8288 10:52:20 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-161-g24600b4: Fix WebTiles handling of keys made with AltGr 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=24600b4c7543 10:54:07 edlothiol: thanks for the info anyway, i just find this interesting. it's generally been my understand that compression gives increasingly diminishing returns (purely in performance metrics) the smaller the data that's being compressed, when transmitted across a network 10:55:33 edlothiol: a common example for this is minified javascript files on a website - i was told or read somewhere at some point, that if the files are below a certain size then minification will often result in the page taking longer to load, from the user's perspective ... 10:56:05 elliptic, kilobyte, so, Yay or Nay to rchandra's suggested changes? 10:56:37 well has an alternative been suggested? 10:56:51 you can't just remove mana without any replacement ;P 10:57:40 mystic, magic, spell ? 10:57:43 (of course according to medar's stats the information could theoretically be transmitted faster than the decompression time - and this isn't taking into account the compression time at the server, however small that is...) 10:57:50 everywhere else we use "magic" 10:57:58 "not enough magic at the moment", etc 10:58:32 mumra: yeah, but you can't really count single messages here, since they use a common compression state (so if one message gets repeated very often, it can be compressed a lot even if it's small) 10:58:48 edlothiol: but that compression still takes non-zero time 10:59:15 on a fast connection, is the transmission time saved greater than the compression time? for small packets ... 10:59:23 that's another matter, but as long as it's only a few ms, I think it's worth the saved bandwidth 10:59:38 as |amethyst, bandwidth isn't a problem on s-z 10:59:45 as |amethyst said, i mean 10:59:53 "magic shield" and "magic link" sound really generic to me 11:00:10 mumra: it can be a problem for players 11:00:11 "spirit shield" would make more sense really 11:00:15 well the internal names don't need to be changed anyway surely 11:00:17 given that we already use that 11:00:39 MarvinPA: yes, the question is what to call them in the list of mutations in % 11:00:45 oh yeah 11:00:46 mumra: especially those using a phone company's wifi 11:01:37 kilobyte: true, i am only talking about fast connections 11:02:46 well, %'s names are alreadi "technical" 11:02:51 you are right in theory for sure, but it isn't really worth worrying about atm, since the performace is ass anyway, few ms won't help much :P 11:03:11 what would you say about "just" 6 cents per MB? That's what I got in a sales pitch to "lower my costs" recently. 11:03:18 and the bandwidth savings are quite massive I think, like /5 or /10 or something. Could test I guess. 11:04:39 kilobyte: the idea of costs per mb terrifies me and i try not to think about it! 11:04:55 mumra: It would make people think about what they are downloading. 11:04:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:05:27 (yes i have to think about this for work purposes of course, luckily my home internet is "uncapped*" whatever virgin media's interpretation of that asterisk is today...) 11:05:30 mumra: they quoted it per 100KB, to make the absolute number sound low 11:05:46 hehe, salespeople 11:12:05 Played a few levels, compressed down to 11% 11:12:33 Medar: i was going to say that hopefully if your opera patch is applied i can find out for my own peace of mind whether things are faster or not here without compression. but then i wondered if this library with opera support might work instead: https://github.com/augustl/js-inflate/blob/master/js-inflate.js 11:13:11 167kB vs. 1464kB 11:13:33 something tells me it's pointless to further benchmark it 11:14:11 yes, that is significant. i wonder if we can do anything to reduce packet size in the first place? 11:14:24 mumra: Interesting. You could try Chrome v19 or Safari :P 11:14:39 the inter-level delay is really noticable - like for me it takes as long as generating a level from scratch usually 11:15:11 Doubt most of that is decompression 11:17:41 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-548-g188f9dc: Combine WebTiles messages and send them together 10(3 hours ago, 7 files, 71+ 17-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=188f9dc64222 11:17:41 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-549-g374aa91: Remove debug print statements. 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=374aa914992f 11:17:41 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-550-g5442759: Disable WebSocket compression on Opera 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5442759fd145 11:17:55 no. i could only have seen decompression being a problem for the smallest packets in any instance. 11:18:15 Oh, I left in a debug print. Shame on me. 11:18:23 this wrapping in tutorial.txt is really annoying 11:18:28 it breaks spacing in loads of places :/ 11:18:37 todo: let Medar fix these issues directly in trunk <_< 11:18:48 MarvinPA: argh. 11:18:55 Grunt: But then it's my fault is everything breaks 11:18:59 (or possibly Aaaarggghhhhh!) 11:19:04 Hey, trunk has broken things lots of times. 11:19:07 ??trunk[-3] 11:19:08 I don't have a page labeled trunk[-3] in my learndb. 11:19:16 ...oh right, someone removed those entries. 11:19:45 Well, with WebTiles you can break stable too :p 11:20:03 Medar: that's the fun of commit rights! luckily i haven't broken trunk in a few days, the last two instances i fixed were both kilobyte ;) 11:20:06 So make sure they work in trunk first, and then backport them :) 11:20:34 mumra: hey, without me you'd be bored! :p 11:20:39 hehe 11:20:44 i'm playing through all the tutorials in console and fixing spacing for 0.12 anyway, i can't guarantee that they will all work in tiles/webtiles though 11:20:51 probably it would be better to unwrap these 11:20:55 Grunt: WebTiles has a single server that handles both trunk and stable games. 11:21:49 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:23:14 |amethyst: could you restart either CSZO or CAO webtiles to test Medar's message combining patch? 11:23:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:23:52 ??rebuild 11:23:52 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 11:24:08 edlothiol: s-z rebuilding now 11:24:23 Guess I need to start a character. 11:24:32 that won't restart the webtiles server, which is necessary for the server changes to apply 11:24:35 Hmm, tutorial :) 11:24:38 ohh 11:29:11 * Grunt waves mumra. 11:29:21 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-550-g5442759 (34) 11:29:53 lo Grunt :) 11:34:09 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:13 hmm, well i can play in opera now 11:36:21 Compression free 11:39:00 -!- madSimon has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:39:24 does this mean that packets are also being combined now without a server restart ? 11:40:23 no 11:41:06 performance feels really good in opera 11:41:29 i don't know if this is indicative of my theories about compression, or just that opera has much better performance than ff/chrome ;) 11:43:04 what i mean is: it's really responsive and playable in opera, whereas ff/chrome regularly glitch and are unresponsive causing me e.g. think a key hasn't been responded to then i make mistakes because keys have queued up 11:43:06 my experience is opera performs better in those things it supports, but its support is often annoyingly lacking (and occasionally strange) 11:43:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:53 There are certainly differences in browsers, haven't tested Opera yet though. 11:44:59 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:34 But occasional glitches can be caused by so many different things. 11:46:54 Based on total unmeasured feeling IE10 seemed a bit better than Chrome and FF much worse 11:49:07 i found IE10 quite bad, but yeah completely subjective feeling 11:50:04 opera right now is great. you really notice on stairs that the compression isn't there, it seems to take twice as long to go up to a previously explored level 11:50:33 but other than that it's always responsive (this is how i remember webtiles being when i first played it, not like now in ff/chrome) 11:51:34 <|amethyst> edlothiol: sure, moment 11:52:20 <|amethyst> I guess I'll restart CAO webtiles since it has fewer players 11:52:39 Webtiles server stopped. 11:52:59 <|amethyst> hm 11:53:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-551-g43e9da9: Mention the manual and the FAQ in release docs. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43e9da97a943 11:53:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-552-g6bdf477: Don't speak about "mana" to the player (rchandra) 10(9 minutes ago, 7 files, 20+ 20-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6bdf47715ff7 11:53:29 <|amethyst> webtiles never seems to actually stop with kill -HUP or -TERM 11:53:39 thanks, kilobyte et al! 11:53:48 Webtiles server started. 11:54:01 <|amethyst> wait 11:54:06 <|amethyst> did someone do an update? 11:54:14 kilobyte: ugh "magic shield", what about calling it "spirit shield" for consistency with items that provide it? 11:54:39 I think ##crawl suggested 'mystic' at one point? 11:54:39 |amethyst: i updated s-z 11:54:42 <|amethyst> I guess not 11:54:44 Which seems better than 'magic', anyway 11:54:59 Webtiles server stopped. 11:55:17 isn't mana used elsewhere 11:55:23 elliott: not any more! 11:55:43 +1 for spirit shield fwiw 11:55:45 DracoOmega: but why not use the same thing as the item? 11:56:08 Well, I suppose. It's just that it also does more (or was this just for THAT aspect of the facet?) 11:56:15 just for that mutation 11:56:17 Oh, okay 11:56:23 In sure, spirit shield makes sense 11:56:25 Then* 11:56:33 <|amethyst> rebuilding cao now 11:56:39 I just thought that was the name including the mana regen changes 11:56:42 I also don't really like "magic link" 11:56:55 DracoOmega: no, currently it is "magic shield, magic regeneration, magic link" 11:57:05 Ah 11:57:41 hmm, so the idea with removing compression on Opera is to make webtiles more responsive? 11:57:43 the ability is called "spirit shield" everywhere else 11:58:17 Can't play a tutorial game when normal one is saved by Medar 11:58:19 SwissStopwatch: no, it's to make webtiles work on opera 11:58:29 <|amethyst> oh, hm 11:58:33 <|amethyst> it doesn't seem to be using ccache 11:58:40 <|amethyst> no wonder CAO rebuilds are so slow 11:59:07 SwissStopwatch: there is an additional patch that should make webtiles more responsive on all browsers 11:59:18 well, we're pretty likely to disturb includes during a day's span, so I don't see why ccache should be important 11:59:19 SwissStopwatch: but we're waiting for the restart 11:59:25 |amethyst: just restart s-z! ;) 11:59:28 ahh, yes. 12:01:02 SwissStopwatch: i had a crazy theory that disabling decompression *might* improve responsiveness on fast connections. i am still standing by this theory ;) (or it could just be that opera has great performance in javascript/websockets/canvas) 12:01:36 I guess I can instinctively understand why said crazy theory makes sense 12:02:03 i should be specific: disabling decompression on small packets (e.g. less than 2k) 12:02:22 like not having to unpack a billion things seems good 12:02:24 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:48 hmm I guess my connection probably counts as "fast" now, can never be sure with these powerline adapters 12:02:49 SwissStopwatch: unpacking a few bytes takes very little time 12:02:55 unpacking a billion things probably isn't a problem, doing it in js might be :p 12:03:08 well, js is quite fast in 2013 12:03:14 of course it had to be compressed at the other end as well, but because of the shared state that should be fast, although yeah there are a lot of these operations going on at once 12:03:14 that's true too 12:03:27 now much worse than unpacking a big block of all these small chunks combined 12:03:41 quite fast != very fast ;) 12:03:51 well, decompression is also quite simple :P 12:04:02 yes, the combined packets should improve any problem there might have been hugely 12:04:45 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:22 elliott: according to medar's tests it took up to 6ms to unpack a 2k chunk, in optimal conditions i can receive an uncompressed 2k chunk in 1ms... 12:06:11 well, that 6ms might be because the browser decided to do something else in between 12:06:35 or the OS, or whatever 12:09:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-552-g6bdf477 (34) 12:09:50 -!- zid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:14 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:11:26 mumra: Chei seems particularly slow at the moment, but I just pushed a commit that lets you disable compression on the client side (with a cookie), so feel free to test it with chrome or FF 12:11:40 -!- mamga has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:49 edlothiol: oh, awesome 12:12:21 I'd rather not risk straining other parts of the system just because you can get a negligible boost in some cases 12:12:39 especially as bandwidth can be costly 12:13:27 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-553-g7bfe5dc: Add a way to disable Webtiles compression on the client side. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7bfe5dc7fc0a 12:13:27 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-554-g5f66549: Tutorial fixes 10(37 minutes ago, 4 files, 35+ 28-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5f6654997f70 12:13:27 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-555-gead7fdf: Fix some hints mode messages 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 14-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ead7fdf0c433 12:13:27 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.12 12:13:27 03MarvinPA 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-163-g79cb655: Fix a nausea hint 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=79cb655448a3 12:13:30 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:14:57 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:15:05 kilobyte: cpu is also costly ... 12:15:43 i mean, server cpu anyway 12:16:34 it's unlikely the compression costs a lot of server cpu, though 12:17:59 kiloybte: right now the difference between opera and firefox/chrome doesn't seem negligible to me; opera plays much like the desktop version. firefox/chrome is like crawling through treacle... 12:18:26 but there are a ton of factors that could be in play here of course 12:18:32 03Christoph Schmitt 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-165-g5a01fa2: Changes to the changelog. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 49+ 87-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5a01fa20208e 12:20:34 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-555-gead7fdf (34) 12:22:36 -!- Spindizzy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:24:16 ok, so is the changelog good enough? 12:24:45 I spotted a couple of typos. 12:24:45 also, what's with the code name? 12:24:48 One moment. 12:25:32 what have we came up with yesterday? 12:25:40 * kilobyte likes Exposed Cleavage :p 12:25:45 Grunt: "demonspawn mutations" -> "Demonspawn mutations", if you didn't catch that one already 12:25:53 (jk, sadly) 12:26:43 OK, pushed. 12:27:30 I guess the fixedarts entry capitalisation could be a bit more consistent... 12:27:53 |amethyst: any problems with restarting CAO webtiles? 12:28:06 kilobyte: "High Vaultage" 12:28:29 Ahahahaha. 12:28:43 (not my idea, I just remembered it) 12:29:15 that somehow manages to be decent -and- groanworthy at the same time, impressive 12:29:40 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:41 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 12:31:35 ok my findings on the no-compression front: both firefox and chrome are noticably improve on my 20mb connection if i disable no-compression 12:31:43 the improvement is most noticable with autoexplore 12:31:57 with no-compression you really nip around the level, almost as fast as the desktop version 12:32:05 with compression ... it's sluggish 12:32:05 is that with autotravel shown or not shown 12:32:10 with default rc 12:32:17 mm, so shown 12:32:35 i like to perform objective comparisons based on default settings ;) 12:32:44 yes it makes sense 12:32:57 well, the desktop version often has ~1 FPS, so webtiles falling to that level is not something we'd like :p 12:33:26 kilobyte: really?? not for me... the desktop version is really really fast :P 12:33:45 03Grunt 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-166-ga9ee58f: Fix typos in changelog. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9ee58fbd0a2 12:33:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:33:47 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:33:48 Yes, even on older systems I've never seen anything remoately that slow 12:34:04 there's a small number of graphics card / driver combination that are fast, everywhere else it's terribly slow 12:34:25 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:33 hmm, that surprises me. every system i've run tiles on has been great. 12:34:34 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:49 well, those cards and drivers are rather popular 12:35:08 btw, is anyone interested in writing the release post (for wordpress)? I can contribute a couple of sentences mentioning the upcoming tournament, but I don't really have time today to write the whole thing 12:35:16 I for one care more for portability rather than what average Joe uses, though 12:35:48 anyway my point was: no-compression makes webtiles noticably faster for autoexplore (like really noticably, it's very nearly as fast as console now), and key responses also feel better. 12:36:02 the only place where you notice things taking longer is moving from one level to another 12:36:32 hopefully once the servers are updated and restarted the compressed performance will be much better anyway with medar's other patch 12:37:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:37:16 it might not do that much for autoexplore case, we'll see 12:38:15 but yeah, autoexplore performance and responsivines when moving normally are quite different cases 12:38:22 both important of course 12:39:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:02 Webtiles server started. 12:40:19 <|amethyst> edlothiol: sorry about the delay, had some students come to my office 12:40:31 <|amethyst> edlothiol: CAO should be running newest webtiles now 12:43:51 in any instance ... opera does seems generally better than ff/chrome with or without compression ... 12:45:01 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:28 mumra: Does autoexplore also include things like going from V:$ to Snake:^ ? 12:45:51 Havvy: well i haven't got much farther than D:3 because i've been playing too quickly ;) 12:46:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:46:38 Havvy: but it includes the time spent moving across each level, however moving to a new floor is definitely slower without decompression because the packet is huge (this is slow even with compression; I think it could be optimised in a different way but that's an excercise for another day perhaps) 12:47:54 mumra: Well, let me just say that on Firefox Nightly, I can see IRC telling me I entered snake...sometimes minutes ahead of where I am. 12:48:17 Also, being able to cancel autoexplore is not really possible. :( 12:48:26 really *minutes*? what speed connection are you on? 12:48:27 minutes? :E 12:48:50 Havvy: well, travel_delay=-1 should be mandatory 12:48:58 Cherry-picked 2 commits into master 12:48:58 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-558-g5e247bb: Update changelog through 0.13-a0-557-gcd82a8c. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5e247bbe5a13 12:49:16 Havvy: it massively increases load on the servers, and greatly slows down play, for no reason 12:49:17 mumra: websockets, 40Mbps 12:49:37 Havvy: where are you physically? do you really mean minutes? 12:50:29 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:36 There's a difference of about 5 seconds per floor. I'm in Vancouver WA (near Portland Or), using CAO. 12:50:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:11 So if I'm going between 12 floors, it is ~2 minutes off for the message. 12:51:28 -!- elly_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:06 * kilobyte enjoys sub-second travel times between any pair of levels. 12:52:40 -!- pythonsnake has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- elly has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- marcmagus has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- nCrazed has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- lukano has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- y2s82_ has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- scrubnub_ has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:40 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 12:52:47 Haven't tried *_delay != -1 in ages, maybe I should test that at some point too 12:52:51 -!- freefall has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:57 As that does sound pretty sick... 12:52:59 I haven't defined any custom userscripts. 12:53:00 kilobyte: should we make that the default option on servers? 12:53:12 mumra: would be a good idea probably 12:53:22 CDO has it AFAIK 12:53:57 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:30 would decrease RL time edge we console players have over tiles folk, though 12:56:15 Start increasing travel_delay and explore_delay by like 1ms per day 12:56:34 haha 12:57:27 well ... cao seems to be working fine after the restart, but i can't vouch for any performance improvement there since i don't usually play on it. the performance is ok but certainly worse than s-z. 12:58:11 Yeah, I have 200ms to CAO so won't even bother to test :p 12:58:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:43 i've got a feeling it's better, i mean it's actually playable which is probably good 13:00:19 I would like a rest_delay=-1 option btw. Mainly so I can see the change in HP/MP bars. 13:00:35 Being a bit less laggy would be a nice side benefit, potentially. 13:01:27 yeah rest can be one of the more noticably laggy things 13:01:33 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:01:36 i always end up pressing 5 too many time 13:01:49 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:57 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:08 |amethyst: cao appears to be working fine ... any chance you could restart s-z also and see if this has made webtiles awesome ? ;) 13:06:22 edlothiol: i mean "even more awesome" of course ;) 13:09:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [*.net *.split] 13:09:30 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 13:13:55 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:32 -!- Sealer has quit [] 13:20:27 Webtiles server stopped. 13:20:44 Webtiles server started. 13:21:01 <|amethyst> mumra: done 13:22:03 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:18 -!- elly_ is now known as elly 13:24:28 Yey 13:25:40 You can test the difference by comparing 0.12 and trunk atm. 13:31:22 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:41:28 -!- Chousuke has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:36 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:24 -!- pythonsnake1 is now known as pythonsnake 13:45:04 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:37 Medar: it's definitely overall better. i'm now favouring IE10 i think, it seems really fast exploring/moving around 13:48:00 i'm having a hard time deciding whether i favour with compression or not. some things are faster with compression, whereas some things are smoother without 13:48:27 ... this makes me wonder if there's something funky going on in the compression algorithm causing it to be inconsistent ... 13:48:36 compression/decompression that is 13:49:25 it's the jerkiness and stops/starts that are disconcerting, losing the compression seems to smooth tihngs out, although there doesn't seem to be an overall speed gain anymore 13:53:55 <|amethyst> you are getting browser-supported compression, not the js inflate implementation, right? 13:54:15 |amethyst: i've been trying lots of different browsers 13:54:38 i don't know which ones support inherent inflation (and i haven't comfirmed if that's definitely working properly of course...) 13:55:05 <|amethyst> all I can think of is to set a breakpoint on the js code 13:55:15 Medar: something that seems bizarrely better without compression is resting .... 13:55:23 |amethyst: just about to try that 13:55:34 Hmm, interesting 13:55:48 exploring/traveling etc. could probably be made smoother by sacrificing a bit of responsiviness for them 13:56:58 it depends how much responsiveness .. that's definitely more important than smoothness 13:56:59 I'd rather have responsiveness for exploring/travling... 13:57:16 Yep 13:57:44 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:59:31 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:51 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:21 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:44 -!- Zifmia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:03:43 well, IE is using the javascript decompression, on the other hand it seems to be extremely fast 14:06:46 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:19:28 -!- Guest30839 has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:22:25 at this point there are two conclusions: either i'm imagining things (entirely possible), or the zlib compression on the server isn't performing as well as expected ... 14:32:42 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:34:00 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:34:20 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:27 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:39 I'm inclined to think autoexplore problems on webtiles are not -specifically- too important because you can do a lot to mitigate that in the rc 14:37:31 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:37:56 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:32 it's not just autoexplore, it's any action in the game 14:38:45 basically things stop/start and play doesn't flow smoothly 14:39:03 any action you perform takes a random amount of time 14:39:27 i just spent quite a while playing both with and without compression; without compression the flow is basically much smoother 14:39:44 I should really start a game so I can test whatever the differences are 14:40:23 you have to set a cookie using the js console in whatever browser you're in, it's not a very easy option to toggle on and off ;) 14:40:51 I -likely- can figure out how to do that 14:40:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:41:30 edlothiol's commit has the js command to run. to re-enable compression you use 'null' instead of 'true' 14:41:56 (false doesn't actually work; the cookie simply has to exist whatever the value to disable compression...) 14:41:57 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:42:09 of course I could also just use Opera and see how different that feels since from what I've seen here and elsewhere firefox+variants are basically the absolute worst 14:42:20 -!- scummos has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:22 for webtiles at any rate 14:42:49 yeah, that works too; although then minor browser differences can come into play. i'm mostly just trying IE10 now because it seems generally faster than any of the others 14:42:52 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:43:03 -!- scummos has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:58 it is really weird; at this time i'm wondering if some thread/file/memory locking type scenario is going on in the zlib compression object which is used server-side... 14:45:12 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73650. (Abyss:1) 14:45:24 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73645. (Abyss:1) 14:45:34 there's no threading in the server, so I doubt that 14:45:34 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73669. (Abyss:1) 14:45:49 autoexplore keeps crashing abyss; idk why 14:46:12 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73649. (Abyss:1) 14:46:24 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73706. (Abyss:1) 14:46:24 because autoexplore should be disabled in abyss i think .... 14:46:46 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73668. (Abyss:1) 14:46:48 um 14:46:51 that was without autoexporing 14:47:42 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73760. (Abyss:1) 14:47:44 the spirit shield ds mutation is totally sweet btw 14:47:48 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73689. (Abyss:1) 14:48:05 ok this is unplayable 14:49:07 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73731. (Abyss:1) 14:49:13 wasn't that assert messed with recently? 14:49:57 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73649. (Abyss:1) 14:50:18 %git 031e97a33edef1fd3b1 14:50:18 03DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-465-g031e97a: Fix a possible crash with using interlevel recall during the orb run 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=031e97a33ede 14:50:55 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73646. (Abyss:1) 14:51:17 I've been trying a few different things here 14:51:36 this crash happens when I autoexplore, when I manually explore, and when I hit 5, in addition to happening in multiple regions of the abyss 14:53:04 oh god 14:53:06 Blade-: congrats you delayed 0.12 release :P 14:53:57 wooooo (do I get a prize) 14:54:25 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:54:36 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:54:50 itym "congrats, you prevented this from happening to dozens of unfortunate victims during the tourney" 14:55:18 dozens of orb-run-abyss-hoprs 14:55:20 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:55:40 should be a tourney banner 14:55:42 heh 14:55:46 Lugonu 3 14:57:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:55 -!- Porost_ is now known as Porost 14:58:22 whoa, an abyss bug???? 14:58:31 -!- scummos has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:33 its a new feature 14:59:02 it crashes the game so you are forced to ^qyes like a sane person i guess 14:59:15 excellent feature 14:59:39 something something monster/player symmetry 15:00:00 yes, all the monsters in the abyss should ^qyes as well 15:00:13 hehe 15:00:34 -!- scummos has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:53 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:01:49 -!- Blade-_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:22 -!- kickascii has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:48 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:13 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:37 -!- Spindizzy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:38 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:28 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:38 -!- Blade-_ is now known as Blade- 15:08:06 -!- jday_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:44 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:09:27 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73748. (Abyss:1) 15:09:39 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73694. (Abyss:1) 15:09:47 apparently mara just cloned my battlesphere? 15:09:48 MarvinPA: this happens with anyone, not just HOPrs. 15:10:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:10:46 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73882. (Abyss:1) 15:11:45 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb_pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73978. (Abyss:1) 15:14:17 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:29 I think I see the problem. 15:18:13 -!- Vidiny has quit [Quit: [19:23] don't they have refill machines in ikea [19:24] bet those muricans took their vases to those straight away after paying] 15:21:02 Got it! 15:21:51 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-559-g1ba3245 (34) 15:25:57 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:04 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-559-g1ba3245: Ensure abyss shifts with the Orb don't crash the game. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ba324506715 15:26:04 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 15:26:22 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:22 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 15:26:22 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:23 gj 15:27:05 you saved 0.12 15:27:13 oh, cool. :) 15:27:22 CAO is rebuilding, Blade-. 15:27:25 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:28 So you should be able to win soon :) 15:27:33 sounds good. 15:34:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-559-g1ba3245 (34) 15:34:31 Blade-: gogogogogogogogo 15:34:33 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:36:03 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:41:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:53 mumra: since all good code name proposals listed yesterday came from you, you need to pick one 15:41:58 -!- geekosaur has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:42:32 -!- nCrazed_ is now known as nCrazed 15:42:33 * kilobyte has a thing for Exposed Cleavage, but you should get out of the gutter as you're crowding me. 15:42:38 maybe we combine them in to "High Vaultage Cleavage" ? :P 15:43:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:47 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:43:56 "Exposed Cleavage" "The Case of the Mysterious Evaporating Stalker" "Whose Cleavage Is It Anyway?" "12 Screaming Yaks" "High Vaultage" "Did I Meat You Somewhere Before?" 15:44:20 s/get out/get your mind out/ 15:44:30 12 Screaming Yaks wasn't mine! 15:44:57 12 Screaming Yaks, heh. 15:45:15 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:45:21 "Nobody's Vault But Our Own" 15:45:28 lol 15:45:38 * kilobyte fails to get the joke in 12 Screaming Yaks, I admit. 15:45:42 demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) (Abyss:1) 15:45:45 ??starcursed mass[2 15:45:46 starcursed mass[2/2]: literally twelve yaks glued together 12 screaming yaks 15:45:59 <|amethyst> !lm demonblade crash 15:46:00 31. [2013-05-01 20:11:44] demonblade the Invulnerable (L27 HOPr) ASSERT(env.orb pos == you.pos()) in 'areas.cc' at line 176 failed on turn 73978. (Abyss:1) 15:46:04 !lm demonblade crash -log 15:46:04 32. demonblade, XL27 HOPr, T:76644 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/demonblade/crash-demonblade-20130501-204541.txt 15:46:14 Wow, a segfault. 15:46:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:17 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:46:27 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:34 CAO, I don't get cores from there 15:49:37 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:54 i really don't know which to pick; maybe everybody should just vote. i think "High Vaultage" is possibly the best. "The Curious Case of the Evaporating Stalker" would be pretty funny but it seems bad to make a reference to a feature that doesn't exist anymore... 15:51:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: no cores, but objdump says the relevant address has: 15:51:27 <|amethyst> 9f3bf8: ff 50 30 callq *0x30(%rax) 15:51:40 <|amethyst> which I guess is a virtual method call 15:51:57 "you called?" 15:53:57 <|amethyst> I think it's you.flash_where->is_affected() 15:55:44 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:41 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:05 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:36 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:59:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:56 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:16 <|amethyst> oh 16:00:26 |amethyst: why hello 16:00:29 <|amethyst> looks like it can happen if you are running when the wretched star flash happens 16:01:03 <|amethyst> wretched star calls flash_view_delay with the address of an auto 16:01:34 <|amethyst> normally that's fine because flash_view calls viewwindow, and viewwindow sets your.flash_where back to NULL 16:02:28 <|amethyst> but if viewwindow exits early for whatever reason, you.flash_where isn't reset to null, and becomes a dangling pointer when mon_special_ability returns 16:02:51 -!- scorchgeek has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:08 <|amethyst> I haven't verified this 16:04:07 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:04:54 -!- nonethousand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:11 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:21 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:26 -!- HDA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:05:44 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:08:20 <|amethyst> cast_ignite_poison specifically calls flash_view(0) after the delay... cast_refrigeration and cast_toxic_radiance do not, so they might cause the same error 16:10:09 <|amethyst> one fix would be to have viewwindow set you.flash_where to 0 before any early returns 16:12:43 -!- keksz has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 16:12:48 <|amethyst> that would mean that the flash would never be displayed if it happens when you have redraws blocked (running with -1 delay, step from time, asleep, or in the middle of level-gen which I guess shouldn't happen) 16:15:30 Wensley: what do you think the 0.12 release should be called? nobody seems able to commit to a name ... 16:16:12 mumra: can I see some release notes? 16:16:59 ??changelog 16:16:59 changelog[1/3]: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - probably incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 16:17:32 -!- johnthebear has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:17:44 mumra: wait, I forget. is 0.13 the upcoming one? 16:18:16 Wensley: 0.12 is the new one that's about to be released basically as soon as a name is decided i think ;) 16:18:39 then why does the first thing under 0.12 say that cleaving has been added, I thought that's been in for ages 16:18:46 Incidentally, I don't really like that the bit on monster changes was condensed so that it doesn't actually say how any of them changed 16:19:03 it has been 16:19:15 0.12 is old! 16:19:20 so old 16:19:21 <|amethyst> %git d66b1ae 16:19:21 03galehar * 0.12-a0-520-gd66b1ae: Cleave effect for Axes. 10(8 months ago, 8 files, 129+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d66b1aea3f26 16:19:32 Wensley: cleaving is one of the main new features of .12, yeah 16:19:43 i guess that was added after .11 was branched but way before the .11 release 16:19:53 0.11 release took a while 16:19:53 DracoOmega: if you feel strongly, it hasn't been tagged yet... 16:20:42 they're not particularly huge changes 16:20:46 Well, probably I dislike MOST of the changes that convey less information, to be honest 16:20:51 But that doesn't seem to be that widely shared >.> 16:21:01 stalker is removed ;_; 16:21:10 Wensley: newvaults is also really old tbh, although what ended up in .12 is like newnewnewnewvautls or something ... 16:21:15 !lg . won 1 16:21:16 1/3. Wensley the Thanatomancer (L27 DsSt), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2010-08-16 23:56:49, with 1539179 points after 195602 turns and 1d+18:23:06. 16:21:41 not that the 0.11 stalker at all resembled the 0.7 stalker... 16:21:45 Like, if someone doesn't want as many details, that's what the hilights are for :P 16:22:19 hill orc leveling nerf ;_; 16:22:28 But axes buff! 16:22:35 !apt ho 16:22:35 HO: Fighting: 2, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 3!, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Stab: 2, Shields: 1, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: -2, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 3!, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: 0 16:22:45 I guess that's ok 16:23:12 haha blessed toes 16:23:27 wtf is this stupid moth of suppression monster 16:23:44 I bet it's like the dumbest thing 16:24:19 new abyssal monsters are the best thing 16:24:24 Wensley: I dunno, but I hate the guy who added it! 16:24:41 to be true to its name it should be not in the changelog 16:24:50 Grunt: you and me both 16:24:55 fr moth of redaction 16:25:27 moth of redaction cannot be mentioned in the release notes, and also automatically removes itself from any game logs and termcasts 16:25:43 !learn add todo_moths redaction 16:25:44 todo moths[2/2]: redaction 16:26:01 it should also eat holes in your morgue file 16:26:04 like Deletionism and Retconjuration magic schools in Erfworld? 16:26:13 <3 retconjuration 16:27:14 though I am getting the feeling that being erfworld's artist is the equivalent of being offered the position of defense against the dark arts at hogwarts 16:28:16 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:28:21 I want 0.12 to be named via globbing together all the new abyss monster names 16:29:13 -!- Havvy has quit [] 16:29:45 ancientlurkingspatialtentaclewretched starcursedspawnzymasstrompocalypse 16:30:26 @??jorgrun 16:30:27 Jorgrun (13q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 120 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1705 | Sp: rapid deconstruction, petrify, shatter, b.dig | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:30:36 Wensley: Support 12 Screaming Yaks :P 16:31:03 It's an abyssal monster name! 16:31:24 @??lamia 16:31:25 Lamia (06N) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 18 | HP: 200 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 40, 1203(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, 04eats corpses, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 3976 | Sp: destruction orb (8d16), mesmerise, haste, poison arrow (3d25), teleport self | Sz: Large | Int: high. 16:31:35 time's running out; while the official time zone is GMT, there's a need for builds, final tests, then SourceForge's upload interface is a bitch 16:31:44 we need some lamia/arachne slash fiction 16:32:05 Except the two of them can never generate in the same game! 16:32:10 exactly 16:32:15 almost like... 16:32:18  !rng "Exposed_Cleavage" "The_Case_of_the_Mysterious_Evaporating_Stalker" "Whose_Cleavage_Is_It_Anyway?" "12_Screaming Yaks" "High_Vaultage" "Did_I_Meat_You_Somewhere_Before?" 16:32:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:32:21 celestial star-crossed lovers eternal 16:32:24 i also approve of 12 screaming yaks if i didn't say so already 16:32:39 worst of the bunch IMO 16:32:56 I want something abyssal 16:33:02 It is! 16:33:07 ??starcursed_mass[$ 16:33:07 starcursed mass[2/2]: literally twelve yaks glued together 12 screaming yaks 16:33:35 "Rotting corpses no longer spawn toadstools for non-Fedhasites." :((((( 16:35:12 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:29 Crawl 0.12: Help, Help, I'm Being Suppressed!! 16:35:48 <3 16:36:32 Crawl 0.12: Icosapocalypse Crab 16:36:45 wait is that the wrong solid 16:37:18 Crawl 0.12: Dodecapocalyse Crab 16:39:10 ^ that's my vote 16:39:40 why don't we just use several titles like: 16:40:03 -!- Datul_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:03 -!- chairbender_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:40:37 Crawl 0.12: High Vaultage --aka-- The Curious Case of the Evaporating Stalker --aka-- Did We Meat Somewhere Before? 16:41:04 no meatsprint title thanks 16:41:22 --aka-- Cleaving Me Softly 16:41:38 I also support Cleaving Me Softly 16:42:15 did something happen with meat in this release 16:42:24 don't quite get the reference 16:42:27 Wensley: you missed meat !! 16:42:29 well 16:42:33 I know of meatsprint 16:42:36 is that it? 16:43:52 i think you underestimate the importance of meatsprint :P 16:47:00 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:19 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:34 -!- opus has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:52:08 and meatsprint bugs 16:52:44 with "comes into view" messages being as wrong as they are, and with no tiles at all, I wonder if it should be disabled for 0.12 17:00:24 did people agree on a title yet 17:00:34 my vote is still for High Vaultage if I get a vote 17:00:44 no, and it's midnight in my time zone 17:01:12 which includes CDO, ie, its wordpress 17:01:19 -!- Spindizzy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:01:59 i'm fine with high vaultage too 17:02:00 a ridiculous blocker -- it starts to get as hard as naming a new server 17:03:09 Yeah, I think am I too 17:03:18 mumra? 17:03:29 |amethyst? 17:03:42 yes i can go with high vaultage 17:03:42 others? 17:03:51 <|amethyst> high vaultage is good for me 17:05:37 <|amethyst> (anything that doesn't make a "cleavage" pun is fine with me) 17:05:46 :( :p 17:06:27 tagged, doing last tests before pushing 17:06:36 in case _something_ depends on release type 17:12:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:19:25 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:31 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:23:01 "Your spear of the Median inquires about your family." 17:25:49 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:27:16 <|amethyst> CAO and CSZO have been updated to not refer to 0.12 as "beta" 17:27:26 <|amethyst> well, I still need to update the webtiles banners 17:30:04 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:50 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:35 <|amethyst> banners updated as well (to mention that the tournament is coming soon) 17:32:18 <|amethyst> I haven't restarted webtiles, so it still says "beta" there 17:37:44 !lg . kiku s=xl 17:37:45 12 games for Grunt (kiku): 4x 10, 19, 27, 12, 20, 8, 13, 9, 14 17:38:06 doh 17:38:31 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 17:38:41 someone has to write a release post... 17:40:06 i have some of a post written 17:42:40 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:43:01 be sure to mention how awesome all the new things are :) 17:43:28 beh, SourceForge's interface is buggy, and their uploads extremely slow 17:43:31 btw, not release post related, but the spirit shield ds mutation is awesome 17:43:32 finally done 17:43:52 definitely on the powerful side imo, at least for my conjurer 17:44:01 and really noticeable 17:44:43 alefury: yeah, I expect it will have to be nerfed 17:44:44 ring of regen + regen spell ==> regen rate of about 1 mp per turn, and can go much higher 17:45:04 alefury: beh, just a poor copy of djinn :p 17:45:14 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 17:45:46 not sure its *that* strong, but certainly powerful. i also got augmentation, which i guess goes well with it. 17:46:35 -!- Jason5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:47:41 its far less double-edged than i expected though 17:47:59 When a transformation ends, armour is still melded when falling off a wall by rebthor 17:49:23 the CDO download page has been updated 17:51:17 http://pastebin.com/qJ07K2Y5 any improvements/stuff i missed? 17:51:49 btw, am i reading the augmentation learndb entry right? does it really give almost a whole enhancer per mutlevel at full hp? 17:52:09 ??augmentation 17:52:09 augmentation[1/2]: (0.12 entry) Demonspawn mutation: gives scaling spell power and slaying bonuses with HP total: bonuses are equal to max(0, ceiling(mutlevel*(2*hp - maxhp)/maxhp))*(0.4*spell power + 4 slaying). 17:52:20 alefury: well, enhancers are multiplicative 17:52:30 ah 17:52:42 so at mutlevel 3 it is a tiny amount weaker than 2 enhancers (at full HP) 17:52:43 so only roughly the equivalent of two enhancers at level 3 17:52:59 which is certainly still very strong, and quite possibly it should go down a bit 17:53:14 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 17:53:19 (though tier 3 facets are supposed to be strong) 17:53:41 oh, right, its tier 3 17:54:02 still, it seems very powerful, and also feels rather strong ingame 17:54:38 incidentally, battlesphere might be affected by high spellpower a bit too much 17:55:08 it sometimes gets like 10+ shots 17:55:12 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 17:55:22 its a bit ridiculous for a level 4 spell 17:55:30 BATTLESPHERE 17:55:31 how does it get so fast 17:55:37 MarvinPA: for tourney stuff, say something like: There will be a tournament from May 11-27 to celebrate the release. All 0.12 games played on CAO, CDO, or CSZO will count towards the tournament. Check out the tournament website for the rules and start forming clans! 17:56:01 MarvinPA: where "tournament website" should link to http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.12/ 17:56:10 yeah, i just started writing pretty much that :P 17:57:18 (I'll also make a tourney-specific post on wordpress sometime next week to remind people about it) 18:00:58 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:01:53 -!- opus has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:01:56 "Stalkers have evaporated." <3 18:02:31 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:04:04 ??changelog 18:04:04 changelog[1/3]: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - probably incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 18:04:30 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:38 MarvinPA: maybe mention the death of levitation somewhere 18:06:15 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:13 MarvinPA: also maybe mention that venom bolt, bolt of magma, and teleport other were improved at the end of the spells section 18:07:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:08:01 aside from those things it looks good to me 18:11:27 cool, added those 18:11:58 will post it in a sec 18:14:06 who does the mac builds nowadays? 18:14:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:15:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:16:15 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:17:58 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:24 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-12-high-vaultage 18:21:29 nice job on the pun 18:21:50 -!- Mixolyde has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:26 mumra gets the credit 18:24:38 what's wrong with this option: 18:24:41 : if you.race() == "Djinni" then 18:24:42 mon_glyph = player : darkred R 18:24:44 : end 18:24:48 it is not working 18:24:59 Do you have show_player_race set? 18:25:10 Er 18:25:13 show_player_species 18:25:18 I do, but this is placed after 18:25:25 so I figured it would override? 18:25:32 show_player_species overrides mon_glyph, not vice-versa. 18:25:40 I thought order mattered 18:25:42 hrrrrm 18:26:15 so if I want to have my Djinni special-cased, I have to have every race special-cased? 18:26:24 Do this: 18:26:31 put show_player_species = false in the :if 18:26:34 :) 18:26:36 |amethyst: do you know how to change the servers to have v=0.12.0 instead of v=0.12.0-b1? I always forget exactly who has to do what for that 18:26:55 !lg qwqw x=v 18:26:56 455. [v=0.12.0-b1] qwqw the Shield-Bearer (L1 HuFi), got out of the dungeon alive on 2013-05-01 23:25:35, with 20 points after 1 turn and 0:00:03. 18:27:07 it worked 18:27:18 also darkred is not a color 18:28:40 has anyone else been playtesting these dudes? double hp cost for mp is brutal 18:29:05 can we try 1.5x, rounded down, so I don't kill myself trying to magic dart things 18:29:59 you know you only have like 3 mp at level 1, right? 18:30:04 usually i mean 18:30:22 madreisz was termcasting one earlier and had made it to slime 18:30:36 what did he start as? 18:30:40 no clue what his early game was like though 18:30:45 dunno 18:30:49 DjFE 18:30:50 fe or cj i think 18:32:04 current essense formula is human hp + mp, so basically you additionally have to pay one HP for every MP you spend. it does sound kind of harsh like that... 18:33:09 there's the glow on top of theat 18:33:11 that* 18:34:00 on the other hand, stack some sources of regeneration and makhleb and things get silly 18:34:08 For the record, the termcast is still termcasting, but idle. 18:34:28 I really like the concept though 18:34:33 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 18:35:36 Do they count as demons for purposes of holy wrath weapons or good gods, by the way? 18:35:44 congrats for the release to everyone btw! and good night! 18:35:53 DracoOmega: no 18:36:01 Hi DracoOmega. 18:36:06 Hi! 18:36:09 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:36:14 I feel as though I had a Crypt monster set idea, but now I can't remember what it was. 18:36:18 they are not evil, they're considered angelic/demonic 18:36:37 also, best new race since whatever was added before vp 18:37:13 Grunt: That's not especially helpful! :P 18:37:29 Grunt: holy crypt 18:37:31 I figured if I said so, it would jog my memory, but I'm still coming up blank. :( 18:37:35 guardian spirits!! 18:37:40 -!- fufumann has quit [Quit: bye] 18:40:55 skeletal versions of vault monsters! 18:41:37 unique skeletal warrior pack! each spawns with rF plate and a disto polearm! 18:41:42 fr: crypt can have a chance to have a lab, but it has crypt floors+walls, and the minotaur is skeletal 18:42:28 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:43 -!- FR3D_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:44:59 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:48:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:48 Huh... Shoals once had non-hut endings. 18:50:55 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/23c3aa27ef47afdb67e978aa8e6145662908417b/crawl-ref/source/dat/lair.des#line217 18:51:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:13 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:26 devs: 0.12 is fantastic; thanks for all your work. 18:51:46 -!- scrubnub has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:54:48 heeeey why does termcast djinn have contam but my build does not 18:55:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:55:32 contam meter* 18:55:56 probably madreisz applied elliott's patch for that 18:57:45 -!- opus has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:00:57 it just now occurs to me that possibly the AF_*** bugfix should have been mentioned somewhere 19:01:21 so that we aren't showered by bug reports about "ice beasts doing absurd damage" or whatever 19:01:27 but maybe it will be fine 19:01:33 was the oka gift crash fixed 19:01:42 I got that 3-4 times in the last month or two 19:03:34 -!- fufuMANN has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:48 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:50 eeviac: take a guess as to what the last race added before vampires were added was. 19:07:59 (I had to dig really, really deep into Crawl history to figure this out.) 19:08:15 ghouls? 19:08:18 md 19:08:21 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:08:37 or gnome 19:08:44 halflings? 19:08:50 (I should know this but I forget) 19:09:50 To my surprise, 19:09:52 Merfolk. 19:10:33 heh 19:11:59 and were vp added last before felids? 19:11:59 which version was that? 19:12:12 Pre-DCSS 3.40. 19:12:21 doesn't seem to be mentioned in versions.txt 19:13:07 old old old 19:14:43 maybe giant count 19:14:49 is 4.1 'canon' 19:15:05 I don't think it directly qualifies. 19:15:10 as opposed to fan fiction 19:15:13 Anything ported from 4.1 into DCSS probably qualifies. 19:15:21 Since giants weren't, well... 19:16:17 soooo why point out that djinni have no legs yet let them equip boots? 19:16:17 -!- Mixolyde has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:32 I don't think djinni are supposed to be able to equip boots. 19:16:33 I don't mind that they can equip boots, it just seems odd 19:17:08 they form feet just for the boots 19:17:11 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:17:22 Hmm, enum.h seems to have preserved the order of addition of species in its species list. 19:22:40 "Summoned allies now only attack while both the summon and the target are in line-of-sight." <-- I understand and agree with forcing the enemy to be in LOS, but why the summon itself? 19:23:15 Grunt: naturally 19:23:32 Grunt: to do otherwise would require work for no gain 19:23:34 SamB: I didn't expect that to survive all the code cleanup over the years, that's all. :) 19:25:55 Wensley: i'm not sure how a situation would work where the enemy was in los but your summon wasn't ... but the theory is that it's not very interesting when stuff happens out of los 19:26:14 in this case you'd be able to see an enemy but not who or what was attacking it 19:26:32 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 19:28:29 -!- wanpisu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:29:30 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:30 -!- WesterAlt is now known as Wester 19:30:39 -!- fufumann has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:07 -!- those is now known as ghfgfhggf 19:32:08 what, you don't ID unless you manage to get your main nick? 19:32:40 not everyone groups their alt, apparently 19:32:53 it seems you don't have to do that to ID 19:32:59 true 19:33:54 you just pass " " instead of "" 19:34:37 -!- JamezQ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:30 hmm, i just never thought about that. the only time my main nick isn't available is when my internet has reconnected for some reason and i'm waiting for the other one to time out. 19:40:01 <|amethyst> mumra: if you're identified you can even do /msg nickserv ghost to kick the old one 19:40:08 <|amethyst> mumra: so no waiting :) 19:40:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:39 that command is going to save me so much grief 19:40:56 <|amethyst> oh, I guess you can also give the password in the ghost command instead of identifying first 19:41:46 |amethyst: ah, awesome. although i'm not sure if i've ever even had to wait really, except that one time i didn't realise i had two copies of my irc program open :P 19:45:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:49:18 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:05 -!- CampinSam has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 19:53:36 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:47 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:55:54 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:58:46 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:06:03 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 20:06:03 <|amethyst> %?? orc ; choko unrand:snakebite 20:06:16 <|amethyst> doh 20:07:51 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:08:36 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:21 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 20:13:57 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:14:30 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:44 why a choko? 20:15:53 -!- fufuMANN has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:19 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:35 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:46 <|amethyst> SamB: it was the first non-weapon item that came to mind 20:20:43 Hey, the downloads page still links to a 0.11.2 Mac build. 20:24:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:24:20 * Grunt notices that 0.11.2 never turned up in the changelog in trunk / 0.12. 20:24:26 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:01 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.12 20:25:17 (of course, I notice this *after* the release) 20:25:19 <|amethyst> CKyle: yeah, no one's done the mac build yet 20:25:32 hai 20:25:32 bh: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:25:37 uhoh! 20:25:38 !messages 20:25:39 (1/3) kilobyte said (14h 3m 3s ago): I think subraces are a bad idea; also, I see no single reason to not simply tweak djinn Chrm/Hex aptitudes. I simply never put any thought there. 20:25:45 !messages 20:25:46 (1/2) kilobyte said (14h 1m 15s ago): as for efreet, they're a djinn variant. According to some sources, merely evil ones, according to others, a separate creature, basically a helldjinn. Ie, spewing fire, living in hell, etc. 20:25:51 <|amethyst> apparently it is quite difficult to build for PPC on a modern mac 20:25:52 !messages 20:25:52 (1/1) Wensley said (11h 41m 8s ago): I am! been super busy with work and other projects 20:26:05 kilobyte: you don't like draconians then ??? 20:26:22 SamB: that's their shtick 20:26:38 yes but he said he didn't like it 20:27:03 !apt ice 20:27:03 Ice: Dr[white]: 2!, Mf: 1, SE: 1, DE: 1, Gh: 1, Vp: 0, HE: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, HO: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, Te: -1, DD: -1, Ce: -1, Mu: -2, Sp: -2, Dr[red]: -2, Fe: -2, Mi: -3*, Tr: -3*, Og: -3* 20:27:59 hm. Is -3 ice bad enough for djinn? 20:28:02 hmm, !apt only calls out sub-draconians that differ from baseline in a given apt? 20:28:18 Correct. 20:30:06 Cherry-picked 1 commit into master 20:30:54 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:10 SamB: I'm not going to adjust charms for Djinn. I think it might make them even more too strong. 20:32:13 +1 spellcasting and +0 charms is very good 20:32:13 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:17 * SamB doesn't remember mentioning charms 20:32:54 djinni don't even have to beware of the hunger cost ! ! 20:33:07 Instead they have to consider the glow cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:33:20 djinn of zin. 20:33:32 will cause a lot of whining 20:33:35 did you hear the idea to put a glow meter instead of MP meter? 20:33:38 ...that sounds hilariously terrible. 20:33:50 elliott has already made a patch for glow meter 20:33:56 what's wrong with a glow meter? 20:34:10 I meant "djinn of zin", not the glow meter :b 20:34:13 grunt was prob talking abotu djinn^zin 20:34:32 hm. Do you think there will be any difference in gameplay between Djinn with Ice-3 and Ice-4? 20:34:45 Make them Ice-5 <_< 20:34:46 what about fire+4 then 20:34:46 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 20:34:57 Grunt: why not just stop them from casting ice spells? 20:35:07 well ozo armor doesn't make any sense 20:35:13 It would make Djnn Ice Elementalist hilarious. 20:35:16 Because we want someone to win a DjIE sometime. :D 20:35:17 but then again neither does stoneskin 20:35:54 -3 is bad enough 20:36:17 yeah they're firedudes but they're also magicdudes 20:36:27 eeviac: it's bad, but it's sort of immaterial. You'd have to be either a bad_player or challenging yourself to even try to use ice 20:36:34 !lg * teee won 20:36:34 !apt troll 20:36:35 Tr: Fighting: -2*, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -4*, Bows: -4*, Xbows: -4*, Throw: -1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -4*, Stab: -2, Shields: -2, Traps: -4*, UC: 0, Splcast: -5*, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -4*, Charms: -4*, Summ: -3*, Nec: -2, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -4*, Earth: -1, Poison: -3*, Inv: -1*, Evo: -2*, Exp: -1, HP: 3!, MP: ... 20:36:35 4. coolrobin the Impregnable (L27 TeEE), worshipper of Ashenzari, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-05-02 00:22:23, with 1406762 points after 105011 turns and 7:45:11. 20:36:41 !apt te 20:36:42 Te: Fighting: 0, Short: 1, Long: 1, Axes: 1, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: 1, Slings: 0, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 1, Stab: 1, Shields: 0, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: 3!, Hexes: -3, Charms: -2, Summ: 2!, Nec: 1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -2, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: 3!, Earth: -3*, Poison: 0, Inv: -1*, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: -2, MP: 1 20:36:55 !lg * trfe won 20:36:56 4. Pac the Portalist (L27 TrFE), worshipper of Jiyva, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-01-07 20:10:01, with 12792967 points after 125277 turns and 10:39:11. 20:36:56 !lg * teee won sk=earth_magic 20:36:57 1. VolteccerJack the Petrodigitator (L27 TeEE), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-03-24 16:21:01, with 8659950 points after 199435 turns and 18:59:45. 20:36:58 there's a djinn termcasting now 20:37:05 it has the glow bar patch 20:37:09 mumra: what server? 20:37:13 termcast.org 20:37:40 and which game? :) 20:37:47 lain 20:37:56 the one that isn't nethack 20:38:35 gold dragon (fleeing) -- hehe! 20:38:36 WalkerBoh the Slayer (L27 DrWr) ASSERT(_valid()) in 'ray.cc' at line 194 failed on turn 95696. (Zig:7) 20:38:51 !ḷm WalkerBoh crash -log 20:39:18 I can't say I really grok the djinn martial apts 20:39:35 Grunt: `ḷ`? 20:39:38 ... 20:39:42 How do I keep doing that >:( 20:39:44 !lm WalkerBoh crash -log 20:39:45 35. WalkerBoh, XL27 DrWr, T:95696 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/WalkerBoh/crash-WalkerBoh-20130502-013835.txt 20:39:55 do you have a weird language keyboard£? 20:40:01 No. 20:40:17 £ isn't part of a weird language anyway :b 20:40:38 you can't spell aust€rity without €! 20:40:44 €!? 20:41:03 (I made a terrible mistake and got my laptop in England) 20:41:26 I guess you really know how to pound the keys, then. 20:41:57 # keys? 20:42:10 £ keys :b 20:42:14 Grunt: i take it euronly joking? 20:42:31 lol 20:42:41 mumra: francly I have no idea what you mean :b 20:42:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:41 Grunt: mark my words, there's a special place in hell for punsters :) 20:43:57 Grunt: mark my words, you will yen for -- oh damn 20:44:01 <|amethyst> you're all such a bunch of drachma queens 20:44:03 haha 20:44:14 Don't make me yuan. 20:44:30 |amethyst: Shouldn't you be eating dinar? 20:45:05 it just got a bit silly rand here 20:45:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:45:41 What sort of racial stealth mod should Djnni have? Your some kind of big magical fire beast, but you also float 20:45:51 you're. gah. 20:46:17 i can't imagine them being particularly stealthy 20:46:23 flight isn't stealthy normally anyway right? 20:46:40 bonfires are plenty loud 20:46:42 ok. I'm going to bin them with Ogres, Trolls, and Centaurs 20:46:51 ehhh 20:46:57 they don't actually burn though 20:46:59 no fire trails :( 20:47:07 we should add that at high levels :) 20:47:12 please 20:47:16 yeah but they probably glow a bit all the time 20:47:19 it wouldn't be imbalanced or anything 20:47:22 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:28 well at xl14 20:47:29 !apt stealth 20:47:29 Stealth: Vp: 5!, Sp: 5!, Na: 5!, Ha: 4, Op: 4, Ko: 4, Fe: 4, DE: 3, DD: 3, HE: 2, Mf: 2, SE: 2, Gh: 2, Te: 1, Hu: 1, Dg: 0, Ds: 0, Dr: 0, HO: -1, Mu: -1, Mi: -1, Og: -1, Ce: -3, Tr: -4* 20:47:43 fire trails would be annoying if you're summoning stuff 20:47:56 ??summon ice beast 20:47:56 summon ice beast[1/3]: L4 summon/ice spell, summons a single {ice beast} with quite high duration. 20:48:06 fr ring of fire racial ability 20:48:12 haha 20:48:12 er ring of flames 20:48:34 what about this: if someone hits you hard enough, flames come out 20:48:44 liiike burnign blood? 20:48:46 nah 20:48:53 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:49:56 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:50:07 so, when it comes to tournaments, is there usually a devteam clan? (i have actually never been around for a tourny to my recollection) 20:50:49 mumra: I don't think so. There was a Crawglers team that was the intersection of devteam (plus Zannick) and Google 20:51:53 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:52:47 will Zin hate Djinn? 20:53:37 <|amethyst> I wouldn't think so 20:54:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:54:50 in some older tourneys there were some pretty dev-heavy teams 20:55:09 dpeg (captain), Keskitalo, Tityrus, haranp, tsnark 20:55:47 oh, there was an all-dev team in the 0.7 tourney I guess 20:55:47 dpeg (captain), Keskitalo, bookofjude, greensnark, itsmu, rob 20:56:09 got 6th place, too! 20:56:26 haranp doesn't play much. I think he played two games for our team 20:56:26 what does the captain do? 20:56:33 SamB: invites the other players 20:57:08 SamB: nothing special other than being marked as captain, has to pick a team name and keep a list of all the players on the team 20:57:28 -!- Xenobreeder|2 is now known as Xenobreeder 20:57:32 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:11 can glowbar get pushed to djinn? 21:00:31 03bh 07[djinn] * 0.13-a0-546-g4648ca3: Tweak Djinn apts 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4648ca3b148b 21:08:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:11:33 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:22 -!- kickascii has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:41 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12.0-1-gf187478 21:21:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:47 -!- zaearth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:27:42 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:42 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 21:28:18 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:30:16 bh: iirc one of the important distinctions between angels and djinn in islam is that djinn have free will and can choose to be good or evil. so yeah, shouldn't be any god restrictions imo 21:30:41 Wensley: I was thinking more the "you inflict glow on yourself willy nilly" aspect 21:30:58 I still don't really know how that mechanic works... 21:31:00 ??djinn 21:31:01 djinn[1/1]: Don't exist. Wiki page: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:djinn Git branch: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/djinn 21:31:33 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12.0-1-gf187478 21:31:42 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:31 bh: does zin get mad at your for getting glow via miscasts? 21:44:22 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:50 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:13 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:15 Wensley: nope 21:46:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:46:23 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 21:47:08 mumra: for the record, people don't want new Tomb layouts (except for the very slim possibility of subvaulting something). 21:48:31 Tomb: The Fixed Branch 21:49:24 ooh, ruin it 21:49:26 with ruin 21:51:59 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:04 well, I think people are okay in principle with the idea of having an alternate layout if it is similar in structure? 21:53:12 like, still sphinx pack -> tomb:2 -> tomb:1 -> tomb:2 -> tomb:3 -> tons of mummies -> rune 21:53:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:54:12 -!- rwbarton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:48 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:55:27 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 21:55:39 ??two-headed ogre 21:55:39 two headed ogre[1/2]: not dangerous by the time you meet them 21:55:44 ??two-headed ogre[2] 21:55:44 two headed ogre[2/2]: http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2012/comedy_goldmine/strangest_fanart_part3/Mywhatacleanturtle_01.jpg 21:55:58 I like tomb but I wouldn't be opposed to a different layout or subvaults in the current layout, provided they are good (which is hard, I think everyone has tried) 21:56:19 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:26 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:54 I would prefer subvaults, though 21:58:10 which would make it much easier to keep things balanced 21:59:09 and keep the same feeling 21:59:17 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:58 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:01:09 mainly what I think is important is essentially keeping the same encounters 22:02:19 what IS that picture ... 22:02:36 I mean obviously at least half of that thing is link ... 22:03:44 the idea i liked for tomb was like an indiana jones-style thing with tons of pressure plates, boulder traps and the like. but probably players would hate that :) 22:03:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:59 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:07 I've thought about that too 22:04:18 thematically you couldn't get much more "tomb" than "tomb raider" ;) 22:04:56 That sounds kindasortavery interesting 22:05:14 * SamB still needs to get that game for PSX ... 22:05:58 that would make it even more predictable and "set" that now 22:06:00 although I wonder how much of a puzzle game you can really turn crawl into, since that's basically what it would be 22:06:54 sprint is where these ideas should go, in my opinion 22:07:01 it's the perfect format 22:07:34 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-560-gbf264c3 22:08:54 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:55 st_: except, i don't think it's impossible to procedurally generate this stuff, based on some of the work i've been doing recently ;) (although even then, a sprint could be a better target for it) 22:09:51 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:04 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 22:10:17 mumra: procedural generation for life 22:10:21 it's how the universe works! 22:10:57 bh: procedurally generated life :P 22:11:19 crawl's static formats, procedurally generated by evolution 22:16:20 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:17:09 -!- sbanwart__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:19:28 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 22:26:15 -!- drage has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 22:30:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:11 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:40:47 |amethyst: could you spin up djinn on cszo for testing? 22:42:37 <|amethyst> maybe this weekend 22:43:24 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:43:35 it takes that long to add a build? 22:43:50 /branch 22:43:55 <|amethyst> it doesn't take *that* long, but there are several files to be edited etc 22:44:15 <|amethyst> and I have end-of-semester stuff to do 22:44:31 oh, students to torture 22:44:32 got it 22:44:56 <|amethyst> oh, the torturing has been going on all semester 22:45:14 <|amethyst> but I have to file reports about the torture 22:45:14 yes but normally at exams time it is said to be somewhat intensified 22:45:17 oh 22:45:28 <|amethyst> (exam is tomorrow morning) 22:46:08 |amethyst: what's the class? I love torturing students 22:46:34 <|amethyst> "Introduction to Program Design, Abstraction, and Problem Solving" 22:46:35 <|amethyst> CS 2 22:46:44 concentrator course or non-conc? 22:47:15 <|amethyst> the former, assuming that means approximately the same thing as "major" 22:47:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:04 yep. torture 'em! :) 22:48:06 <|amethyst> we do have plenty of EEs as well, despite it not being required (they have a matlab-based programming class they can take instead) 22:51:38 anyone have the nerve to *enjoy* the torture? 22:52:01 > enjoy code poetry 22:52:33 *shudder* 22:52:41 * SamB does not remember matlab programming fondly 22:52:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:53:00 I remember intro CS. I got a comment on an assignment (in OCaml) -- "Thank you for demonstrating that you can write clear code in at least one language" 22:53:24 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:53:38 that sounds a little backhanded? 22:53:56 bh: I think waiting until after tourney for testing major things online is better 22:54:10 and also it isn't great to do this right after a release 22:54:13 <|amethyst> SamB: I don't know about "enjoy", but some of them have developed a high pain threshold at least 22:54:13 elliptic: oh. When is the tourney? (I don't pay attention) 22:54:14 we want people to play 0.12 22:54:24 I'm a trunk player 22:54:24 ??tourney 22:54:25 tournament[1/3]: The 0.12 tournament will be May 11-27. Rules: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.12/ 22:54:26 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:54:28 ??tourney[3] 22:54:28 tournament[3/3]: Tourney scoring scripts: http://github.com/elliptic/dcss_tourney . 22:54:34 wait, it was there already 22:54:37 * SamB is silly 22:54:50 bh: see? 22:54:57 bh: there will be more testers for trunk after tourney and after 0.12 has been released for a while 22:55:23 -!- nonethousand_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:16 ??vehumet 22:57:17 vehumet[1/3]: The god of destructive magic. Offers you the opportunity to memorize up to 15 different destructive spells over the course of the game, beginning with a L1 spell at * piety and loosely weighted by elemental skills. Provides mana on kills at * piety, {wizardry} bonus for destructive spells at *** piety, and extra range at **** piety. 22:57:31 whoa. djinn turn vehumet into makhleb 22:58:29 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:59:13 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:54 but with different spells, amirite? 23:01:19 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:22 better spells. 23:02:47 certainly more djinn-like 23:03:09 Let it end in hellfire! 23:06:49 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:16 -!- nonethousand_ is now known as nonethousand 23:20:58 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 23:23:12 ??steam 23:23:12 steam[1/1]: Does 3-16 damage and (more importantly) obscures LOS. Used by smoke demons, steam dragons and pale draconians, and can be created by evaporating water. Damage is completely negated by rF+, steam dragon armours, or being a pale draconian. 23:24:17 !learn edit steam s/, and can be created by evaporating water/, and caused by fire attacks passing over water/ 23:24:17 steam[1/1]: Does 3-16 damage and (more importantly) obscures LOS. Used by smoke demons, steam dragons and pale draconians, and caused by fire attacks passing over water. Damage is completely negated by rF+, steam dragon armours, or being a pale draconian. 23:27:10 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:29:59 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:33 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 23:41:54 -!- eeviac_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:18 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:01 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:06 -!- eeviac has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:08 -!- eeviac_ is now known as eeviac 23:55:26 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]]