00:05:45 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-b1-126-g5f1cdff (34) 00:08:46 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:06 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:27 -!- QQQ is now known as gloop 00:13:05 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-463-gd58ed0a (34) 00:13:35 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:14:50 -!- gluup_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:22:12 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:01 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:10 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 00:26:49 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:01 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 00:31:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:58 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37:04 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:40:12 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:43:01 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:32 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:20 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:46:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:00:34 trunk compile error for mingw binaries today: 01:00:35 CXX tilepick.o 01:00:35 tilepick.cc: In function 'tileidx_t _tileidx_armour_base(const item_def&)': 01:00:35 tilepick.cc:3249: error: 'ARM_SPLINT_MAIL' was not declared in this scope 01:00:36 tilepick.cc:3250: error: 'TILE_ARM_SPLINT_MAIL' was not declared in this scope 01:00:37 -!- jday_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:00:39 --- 01:01:17 -!- lambskin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:26 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:45 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:12 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:19:24 -!- johnny0_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:23:09 Hmmm... so the splint mail removal broke tiles builds too, then? 01:33:13 How odd. It seems that tiles gives armour tiles to ghosts based on their AC, yet scale is listed as higher AC than chain mail? 01:33:31 Not that this matters much 01:37:56 -!- Mandevil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:28 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:29 So I triggered a rebuild on CSZO, since it looks like the night update didn't happen because of this? 01:39:41 But someone else will have to do it for CAO, since I can't 01:39:50 (I probably should get that fixed at some point) 01:40:01 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-464-gf1925c4 (34) 01:40:49 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-464-gf1925c4: Unbreak tiles compilation 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1925c40129c 01:40:51 -!- Nickajeglin has quit [] 02:00:04 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:54 -!- clinew has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:17:26 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:03 -!- gloop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:11 Hmmmm... maybe the trigger for the interlevel recall was more complex than I thought? I just went to fix it then, except I can't actually get it to trigger 02:26:45 Probably there was something more specific that was triggering _update_agrid() during the middle of a recall 02:28:03 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:28 Okay, now I'm reluctant to change that assert-handling after all, since it looks like something a lot more odd may have been happening, which might indicate some actual bug 02:33:59 Even recalling in things with auras, which WOULD affect the agrid, doesn't seem to do anything 02:42:17 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42:30 Hmmm... maybe it could trigger if you, say, recalled in a profane servitor who had 'died' to stick flame in the meantime? 02:45:04 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:26 This seems really annoying to try and set up 02:59:36 -!- Kaput has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:00:32 Oh, actually, it looks like it might be from haste wearing off 03:00:47 Which triggers a speed recalculation, which checks for liquified ground, which updates the agrid 03:02:19 Okay, mystery solved 03:05:54 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:24 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:09:37 -!- gowby has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:09 Grunt: sorry, I forgot vaults. I did test it and it worked locally 03:11:37 elliptic, grunt, DracoOmega : thanks for fixing all the things I've messed up :) 03:11:54 No problem :) 03:12:03 A team effort! 03:15:45 I have to question the code organization if making sealed doors properly disintegratible still produces 'Nothing appears to happen.' unless code ELSEWHERE is also changed. 03:15:56 Despite the beam actually removing them 03:16:17 Not that it is a brave statement to say 'beam code could be improved' :) 03:16:20 elliptic: I've been thinking of tweaking the shield penalty formula too to remove breakpoint 03:16:47 elliptic: maybe we can rescale it too for better consistency with armour 03:17:04 do we want str to factor in? 03:17:14 Hmmm... I am wary about removing the ability to eliminate the penalty from shields 03:17:22 anyway, I'm leaving for the weekend soon, won't be able to chat much 03:17:32 DracoOmega: why? 03:17:49 shields are commonly considered (and actually are) bad enough with the ability to remove penalty, likely 03:18:10 could work like armour, decrease linearly until it reach 1/x of base penalty 03:18:21 Well, for one thing it is already seen as a pretty noticable exp investment to remove the penalty, so it doesn't seem great to have the same exp produce an even lesser effect 03:18:59 SwissStopwatch: maybe they could be buffed in some other way. evilmike suggested to remove the melee penalty 03:19:12 If a high strength gave a bonus for shields, say lowering the level you you need to get to for removing the melee penalty, that'd be nice. 03:19:13 The melee penalty is much less significant than the spellcasting one in the first place, I think 03:19:22 hmm 03:19:36 removing the melee penalty would have at least one good side-effect 03:20:51 I still think "raise shield skill to x to cancel penalty" is bad design. Balance is another concern, we have other levers to tweak 03:21:13 that being that people would get to stop telling the Fi background to drop the starting shield (although it's far from clear that doing so is correct) 03:21:23 You think it is bad design... why? 03:22:15 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 03:22:43 'Raise skill to X to make Y useable' is pretty much the core of spellcasting at the moment, no? 03:22:59 well, with spells what X is doesn't just depend on what Y is 03:23:22 What? 03:24:11 it's good if X isn't a hard value. Raise it a bit more and it keeps improving... 03:24:21 sometimes you might need 12 Charms to cast haste, sometimes 14, sometimes 18, maybe sometimes 10 03:24:31 depending on what your character looks like in other ways 03:24:37 Well, your shields do keep improving above the skill level that eliminates penalties, for what it's worth 03:24:44 but for a shield you are always training it to 11 or 15 (disregarding size) 03:25:04 hard breakpoints are bad! 03:25:04 Even if the benefit is smaller 03:25:19 Spriggans only train to 9. ;) 03:25:22 Is that really a truism? 03:25:51 There's one hard breakpoint with skills already: 27 03:25:52 of course, the worst offender is weapon min delay, but also the harder to fix, so I keep it for later :) 03:25:54 yes, I said disregarding size (and also I mean a normal shield, which is maybe a problem for Sp...) 03:26:05 Anyway yeah if mindelay breakpoints and str breakpoints are/were bad then arguing against shield penalty breakpoints is at least consistent with that 03:26:14 In any case, even if spell skills don't have hard breakpoints, they still allow you to eliminate VIRTUALLY all of the penalties and miscast rate with most spells. Sure it may be possible to turn that 3% into 1%, but that basically doesn't matter 03:26:47 SwissStopwatch: Well, for what it matters, I don't personally feel that mindelay breakpoints are inherantly problematic 03:27:12 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:27:30 And it provides a fairly straightforward way of having weapon progression, and having a split between weapons that are moderately good but need less investment, and weapons that are stronger but need more investment, which I think is a good thing here 03:27:33 But that's a whole other debate 03:27:48 What if some other benefit started happening for training past mindelay? 03:27:51 right (my only problem with them is that it can be unclear that they even exist, for the record) 03:28:14 Yes, certainly explaining it more explicitly in some fashion seems fine to me 03:28:24 Havvy: There is already a noticable benefit to training past mindelay, by the way 03:28:34 The damage boost is actually more noticable than a lot of people seem to give it credit 03:28:43 DracoOmega: Yes, I've noticed that. 03:28:46 Since I'm perfectly okay with training weaponskill past mindelay point on some chars anyway - the existence of a breakpoint there doesn't entirely mean there's one correct skill to train to 03:28:55 Indeed 03:29:08 You may want at LEAST mindelay, but often you want more, depending on what else you have to do 03:29:26 So sometimes a bunch more levels in your weapon skill make sense, even if you have spells too 03:29:49 and sometimes it can work the other way - just because a good weapon exists in game doesn't mean you want to or can afford the training for it 03:30:00 Yeah 03:33:32 maybe the greatest disincentive to train weaponskill past mindelay is actually the existence and function of Fighting 03:33:45 That's actually an interesting point 03:34:05 But fighting gives health. 03:34:11 yes that's exactly it 03:34:25 Actually, you could probably rename Fighting to Constitution 03:34:26 Well, yes. But the point is that if you have spare xp to spend on melee-esque things, fighting is often more desireable than weaponskill 03:34:35 Well, fighting has a noticable effect on your damage output, too 03:34:49 Which is why it may overshadow extra weapon skill levels 03:34:58 Since both will increase your damage some, but fighting will give you hp on top of that 03:35:20 (Probably it increases your damage by LESS, but is still often more attractive) 03:35:58 yeah the weaponskill factor is slightly higher 03:36:12 Having two skills that increase your damage and something else is kind of odd. 03:36:40 well Fighting also ends up serving the function of perhaps making it more palatable to change weapon types at times 03:36:45 Yes 03:36:59 Which I think is actually valuable 03:37:24 You're not losing your entire investment into melee murder if you have a trident but decide that the lajatang in the corner looks fetching 03:37:42 (possibly with bonus crosstrain action, too) 03:37:57 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:38:43 -!- dupo has quit [] 03:44:01 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-465-g031e97a: Fix a possible crash with using interlevel recall during the orb run 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=031e97a33ede 03:44:01 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-466-g7b8d2cc: Let disintegration and orbs of destruction properly destroy sealed doors 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b8d2cc1c9ab 03:44:01 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.12 03:47:07 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:46 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:57 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:07:19 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 04:15:12 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:17:32 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:53 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:38 -!- ahpla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:20:44 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:21 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 04:30:08 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:33:47 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:53 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:48 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:42 SwissStopwatch: the problem with crosstraining is that it helps only training, not use 05:25:28 ie, if you're a master of polearms, you can't handle that lajatang unless you train it up 05:27:29 -!- melchizedek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:44:52 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:47:26 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:03:12 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:10:36 sounds like it could make sense to give a slight skill boost in addition to a training bonus for similar weapon categories. relative to the skill difference of course. 06:15:20 DracoOmega: Fighting has less than half the benefit compared to weapon skills (save from extra hp), but I think it's mostly about skill costs rising in a strongly over-linear fashion. So you're best off training both. 06:15:49 Yes, I did think it was a fair bit less 06:16:37 IIRC the formula differs piecewise, being exponential in the middle and quadratic in parts. If it was only quadratic, for half the benefit you'd still want to train the worse skill to 1/sqrt(2) of the better one 06:17:24 except that 14 vs 10 falls right in the exponential range, so the optimum is far closer to having both roughly equal 06:18:31 -!- OCTOTROG_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:36 It seems fine that one is best-off training both in many circumstances\ 06:19:53 As I said earlier, I think weaponskill over mindelay is a bit undervalued in some circles 06:24:19 of three benefits: +acc, +dam, -delay, it loses just one 06:25:45 Yes. And admittedly it is appreciably LESS effective after mindelay, but the way some people talk about it, you'd think it completely fell off the cliff into uselessness 06:27:07 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:39:13 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 06:41:00 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46:59 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 06:48:42 -!- inpho has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:06:52 -!- santiago_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:03 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:30 You know, why does getting poisoned produce a red message, yet getting slowed or even paralyzed is normal color? Despite getting slowed often being even worse for your health? 07:12:02 (I realize that paralysis doesn't really matter here since you can't DO anything about it once it happens, but slow seems like a valid question) 07:18:47 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 07:20:17 -!- DaneiTHREE has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:22:17 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 07:22:36 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:23:29 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:24:41 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:00 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:59 Morning 07:40:12 -!- moziz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:16 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:44 Grunt: I'm afraid 27b33f27 causes frequent infinite loops 07:59:22 Grunt: to reproduce, ./crawl -arena 'cerebov v test spawner delay:0 t:99' -- it will get stuck once per 2-3 tries 08:03:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:08:49 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:10:36 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:51 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:34:29 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:41:23 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:13 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:44:06 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:45:21 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 08:45:58 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:45:58 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 08:46:02 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:12 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:54:28 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:57 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:14 -!- scummos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:58 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:11:47 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 09:13:12 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 09:13:36 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:01 -!- santiago_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:33 -!- santiago_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:33 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:14 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-467-g1ca388f: Allow using - key in WebTiles stash search menu 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ca388fdcecd 09:23:14 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-468-gc124394: Really fix WebTiles HP/MP bar overflow 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c124394bf5ba 09:23:14 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-469-g43caef8: In WebTiles show read message key as F12 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43caef82989b 09:24:04 -!- _D_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:28 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:23 03edlothiol 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-129-gfcf9150: Remove a debugging message in Webtiles (|amethyst). 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcf9150ba434 09:33:23 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-130-ge4394fa: Allow using - key in WebTiles stash search menu 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4394fab83b3 09:33:23 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-131-g46c5b8e: Really fix WebTiles HP/MP bar overflow 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46c5b8e409bb 09:33:23 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-132-g4ba8c15: In WebTiles show read message key as F12 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ba8c15da549 09:33:23 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-133-gf2319b7: Copy needs_autopickup prop in get_item_info 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2319b7c5f64 09:43:31 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-470-g0930f43: Copy needs_autopickup prop in get_item_info 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0930f439ebd0 09:43:31 03Medar 07* 0.13-a0-471-g82c4deb: Show wielded unidentified decks right in WebTiles 10(2 weeks ago, 3 files, 11+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82c4deb8a4df 09:43:31 03Medar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-134-g976aae5: Show wielded unidentified decks right in WebTiles 10(2 weeks ago, 3 files, 11+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=976aae5be5f7 09:44:07 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:42 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:20 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 09:58:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:01 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:07:28 -!- Luxivar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:59 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:08:52 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:37 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-472-gbcafd50: Revert "Don't allow player bypassing menu restrictions with clua" 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bcafd50d28ce 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-473-g3d87c34: Revert "Prevent selecting inventory items that cannot be used, including melded items for scrolls" 10(2 weeks ago, 6 files, 10+ 29-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d87c34f773a 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-474-g4cf483e: Purge the code for recharging weapons. 10(2 weeks ago, 4 files, 4+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4cf483e8a257 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-475-gaefa5b4: Fix a misbuild with clang-3.3. 10(2 days ago, 4 files, 12+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aefa5b469d9c 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-476-g4d69c10: Drop a couple of useless comparisons. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d69c10402cc 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-477-g5f493bf: Fix a monster_type misbuild with clang-3.3. 10(2 days ago, 11 files, 15+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5f493bf43620 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-478-g36e1f6c: Fix invalid message colour and job names being accepted. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=36e1f6c9ed5e 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-479-gebf4e2f: Fix a name conflict with std::ignore. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ebf4e2fde760 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-480-g95c02b9: Ignore warnings about type limits, but only inside ASSERT(). 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 20+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95c02b930ccd 10:13:54 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-481-g26712a4: Fix hungry vampires getting rod food costs halved twice. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26712a4bbb1c 10:13:54 ... and 9 more commits 10:17:30 -!- gloop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:45 I found a bug, do I report it here? 10:26:24 ??mantis 10:26:24 bug[1/3]: To report bugs, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 10:26:47 (though reporting it here will often work too) 10:34:55 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:48 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:11 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-491-gb114486: Properly use default values in a few places. 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b1144867e8f0 10:39:11 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-492-g7e4cf13: Add spacing fix. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e4cf13bbca4 10:39:11 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-493-g2552ddc: Fix warning caused by apparently missing #ifdef. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2552ddc642ee 10:41:12 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:41:15 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 10:44:16 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-494-g5c79c9b: Fix a few "no previouc declaration" warnings in tiles. 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5c79c9b89532 10:55:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:06:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:16:04 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:18 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 11:22:32 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 11:23:30 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:26:35 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:36 -!- Yen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29:46 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-495-g1c3b1a5: Typo fix. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1c3b1a5885b3 11:33:07 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:34:41 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 11:35:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:39 -!- Sealer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:14 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:15 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 11:50:40 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 11:55:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:59:21 -!- Sealero has quit [] 12:00:06 Jellies eat doors in Ziggurat by Sandman25 12:00:55 -!- Vazyla is now known as Carapuce 12:03:42 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06:18 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.12-b1-134-g976aae5 12:10:30 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:31 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 12:10:48 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:28 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:12:57 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:23 -!- Naphistim has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:07 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-495-g1c3b1a5 (34) 12:26:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:31 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:29:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:36 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:42:24 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:33 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:46:45 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:01 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:49:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:47 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:56:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:17 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:02:07 -!- copy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:36 -!- geekosaur has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:06:11 -!- shachaf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:07:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:09:24 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:58 -!- shachaf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:14:58 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 13:17:31 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:25 -!- shachaf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:58 Character icon doesn't show up sometimes, nor does target reticule by morik 13:28:49 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:46 -!- Yen_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:47 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:06 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:37:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:33 -!- shachaf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:51 -!- drage_lanyon has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 13:40:58 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:42:02 -!- copy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:44:56 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:46:23 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:50 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:17 Weird icon showing up for a potion by morik 13:54:45 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:27 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:12:22 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:33 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:10 In celebration of all portal vaults now being timed, I have made new entry vaults for the 6 that got changed to be like labyrinths and bazaars. 14:19:12 http://pastebin.com/i8xAKiYF 14:19:17 One each. 14:19:22 (are they good?) 14:20:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:34 Please leave messages for me, I'm going to nap now. 14:20:37 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: napping] 14:21:40 -!- Weeksy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:23:39 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:58 -!- cjo_dcss has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:50 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:16 Tiles is super messed up 14:32:30 display-wise 14:35:59 have you pressed ctrl-F5 14:38:46 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:15 * SamB_XP is not happy: his other, less underpowered XP system, which he usually uses for browsing and as an X terminal, won't even begin to boot: the screen doesn't even turn on! 14:43:05 mumra: its a bunch of js errors 14:43:20 see https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6966 14:43:32 like, water won't display sometimes 14:43:35 stairs, doors, traps 14:43:47 actors on top of such things 14:45:22 trunk? 14:46:15 oh, yes it is 14:46:15 yeah 14:46:27 oh, CAO 14:47:54 ok, I get the same error there, trying to spectate 14:49:47 morik: try pressing ctrl-F5 14:50:22 I'm on a mac 14:50:27 I assume its different 14:50:29 you want me to refresh? 14:50:31 ok, mac key + f5 14:50:38 This, is a different issue 14:50:40 what command does that run? 14:50:43 There is a JS error 14:50:52 it means "refresh everything" 14:50:52 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:56 including stuff that might be cached 14:50:56 k 14:51:09 won't affect other tabs, right? 14:51:12 no 14:51:16 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:39 umm that turned on "voiceover" 14:51:48 I'll find it without shortcut 14:52:22 hmm 14:52:44 are you sure you presed the right key? not fn, the special mac key (which generally replaces ctrl in everything) 14:52:47 what browser are you on? 14:53:16 (cao is fine for me btw) 14:53:49 there have just been a bunch of updates to webtiles so it's quite likely you have some cached javascript 14:53:50 I used command 14:54:06 I will restart chrome in a bit 14:54:07 you can clear your browser's cache in the menu but i don't know which browser you're on so i can't tell you which menu 14:54:08 can't right yet 14:54:12 chrome 26 14:54:37 and I know how to clear the cache :) 14:54:44 I'll do that when the meeting I'm in is over 14:54:49 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:57 in chrome go to History and "Clear browsing data" 14:55:04 it is not a caching problem 14:55:11 Medar: why is it fine for me? 14:55:17 on CAO? 14:55:30 yep 14:55:39 Anyway, I get the JS errors in console on CAO by just speccing the first guy 14:56:04 Medar: oh wait, i see what you mean 14:56:26 Shift-Command-R is not enough to clear Chrome's cache of client.js if that's what you're trying. 14:56:44 medar is right, not a caching issue 14:56:45 Get them on my local server too now 14:56:51 Let's see 14:57:15 the only reason other servers are ok is because only cao updated 14:57:22 after all your webtiles patches got pushed ;) 14:57:48 if you find a fix i can push it for you asap 14:59:17 I'll try. Has to do with autogenered tileinfo files, and I have no idea how that stuff works yet. 14:59:27 So could take a while :) 15:01:52 Medar: it's not that they're out of date as built, I hope? 15:02:16 no, some ASSERT lines end up in autogenned .js files 15:02:30 but ASSERT is not defined in JS, so it fails 15:03:03 !Cryp71c I'd like to ask your opinion of a mutation I'm interested in working on, is there a time that's good to find you on IRC? Or can I send you a message on the tavern? 15:03:16 Medar: do you know which commit introduced this? 15:03:34 cjo_dcss: you have to do !tell Cryp71c [message] 15:03:52 %git mumra: its a bunch of js errors 15:03:52 Could not find commit mumra: its a bunch of js errors (git returned 128) 15:03:52 oh 15:03:54 asdfa 15:04:08 %git 95663a 15:04:08 03kilobyte * 0.13-a0-483-g95663aa: Use ASSERT() rather than assert() in tiles code. 10(29 hours ago, 2 files, 20+ 27-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95663aa495f2 15:04:14 ooh 15:04:16 Maybe that one, didn't test yet 15:04:28 cjo_dcss: also you could leave a comment on the devwiki if you want to write up some detailed information for him to see later 15:04:33 that sounds promising? 15:04:36 Medar: it sounds like it 15:04:38 yeah, typo, sorry 15:05:53 -!- nubcakes has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:53 -!- ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:15 Medar: it looks like kilobyte did a search/replace but got some bits he didn't mean to 15:06:21 -!- mnoqy has quit [Quit: hello] 15:06:43 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:07:08 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:07:33 -!- silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:07:33 Yeah, looks that way. 15:08:09 cjo_dcss, shoot, I have 20 minutes or so. 15:08:27 Hi Cryp71c, here goes 15:09:05 original suggestion from the tavern was for no natural mp regeneration, but can absorb magic items for mana 15:09:12 and this is why we need to actually look at the diffs at some point 15:09:12 I thought that was too extreme 15:09:17 before pushing 15:09:26 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:28 But I thought that a raised/lowered cap could be neat 15:09:52 increased total allowable mana, but natural regen stops short of the total 15:10:16 so, for example, suppose your non-mutated char had 15 mana 15:10:35 Medar: i *think* only the first one is wrong - line 849 in tile_list_processor.cc 15:10:38 at rank 1, you could have (for example) 20 total mana, but mana regen stops at 12 15:10:40 would you agree? 15:10:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:11:10 "absorb magic items for mana" sounds pretty bad to me, if this means that characters will go around collecting junk wands and such and carrying them around to restore MP 15:11:13 to get the other 8, you would absorb items, destroying them in the process 15:12:12 mumra: I think that one is used both by .js and .cc 15:12:27 So it needs an argument or something 15:12:59 cjo_dcss, elliptic makes a good point, plus we have a policy to strongly avoid mutations which require active ability use..which this seems like it would fall into..you coul do passive magic-item gobbling, but then you'll have complaints about consuming items that weren't meant to be consumed. 15:13:48 ah... I don't see a way around making it an activated ability, so maybe it's a no go. 15:14:21 The issue with junk items could maybe be addressed by linking to item value, but I don't think it would work as a passive ability 15:14:33 better would be something like no natural MP regeneration, but get MP back for killing monsters... though I'm still not sure it is a great idea 15:14:47 cjo_dcss, between elliptics point and mine, there are two good plicies to keep in mind for mutations: nothing which encourages tedious behaviors (like scumming for wands and carrying them around all the time), and nothing which requires active ability use. 15:14:51 elliptic: magic deep dwarf... deep deep elf 15:14:58 deep deep elf of vehumet 15:15:09 elliptic, we have one like that..kind of, with the powered by pain (just strongly boosts mp regen, doesn't it?) 15:15:22 Cryp71c: huh? 15:15:35 powered by pain is not really anything like what I just said 15:15:37 ??pbp 15:15:38 powered by pain[1/2]: Taking damage sometimes restores MP (50%), or gives agility (25%) or might (25%). Tier 2 DS mutation. 15:15:58 yeah I realized after I typed it up..its the psuedo-opposite of what you were talking about (giving damage vs taking damage) 15:16:03 well, killing monsters, rather. 15:16:53 cjo_dcss, I'm hoping to aim quite high (in quality / interest / balance etc.) for the trade_off mutations, just to keep you aprised. 15:17:29 sure, I understand 15:18:23 mumra: If you want to push a fast fix, just comment out the 849 line (ASSERT(idx < %s);\n") 15:18:47 i've written a proper patch 15:18:51 Nice 15:18:53 can i just check, lower case assert is fine in js? 15:19:04 I'll double check 15:19:09 I assume it used to be a lower case one though 15:19:22 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:19:44 cjo_dcss, feel free to brainstorm for a cloak-losing facet series that ISN'T wings. 15:20:00 Medar: http://sprunge.us/bfKG 15:20:03 If I hear shoulder-spikes again as a serious suggestion 0_o 15:20:16 Medar: can you check if that patch fixes it? i don't have the webserver set up locally 15:20:18 will do 15:20:39 Cryp71c: rocket propulsion, clearly 15:20:58 Cryptic, I don't want to take up a lot of your time since you said you didn't have long, thanks for chatting :) 15:21:02 mumra, I'm sure no one would be up in arms about that 15:21:10 cjo_dcss, np, leaving work in about 9 minutes. 15:21:14 Cryp71c: exactly, 100% non-controversial 15:21:16 So, I'm more or less free until then. 15:21:29 mumra, coming soon: Tauren and Goblins. 15:21:41 we have goblins! 15:21:46 The goblins craft these rocket propulsion devices... 15:21:48 hmm, 9 min :) Did you think that some version of a noisy mutation has promise, or too similar to Singing Sword? 15:21:51 mumra: presumably if the js *used* to use a lower-case assert, and it wasn't giving problems before, and there isn't also a definition that got upper-cased ... 15:21:52 hehe 15:22:07 SamB_XP: that's what i'm assuming 15:22:18 cjo_dcss, noise is interesting, but not terribly transparent...I could see some interest to it, but that would merely be one aspect (the middle one?) of the facet. 15:22:30 so my patch should work, but i haven't even tested if it compiles 15:22:38 s/would merely/would merely have to/ 15:22:49 it doesn't compile 15:23:20 and c&p from my virtual machine is broken :( 15:23:21 I was thinking the drawback would be random shouting, and the positive part sonic damage to adjacent enemies, supressed when near allies. Not sure how to make it 3-ranks though. 15:24:09 mumra: you put the is_js ? ... in wrong fprintf :) 15:24:10 Medar: ah crap, what's the compile error? 15:24:17 really? 15:24:29 cjo_dcss: well, usually 3 ranks just means you scale up the damage or how often it triggers 15:24:51 oh lawd, what am i doing lol 15:24:54 mumra: yep, after fixing that it works though 15:24:55 how about a singing growth on the back of your neck? Makes noise, but raises your ev a bit? ("Duck left!" "No, your other left!") (not sure if I'm serious…) 15:25:02 you see this is why i didn't just push it straight away ;) 15:25:33 hehe, always have to compile :p 15:25:41 -!- Silurio_ is now known as Silurio 15:25:44 cjo_dcss: noisy mutation definitely sounds like it has potential to me at least... I'd try to distinguish it from Singing Sword by making it not depend on tension, probably 15:26:04 ??rebuild 15:26:04 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:26:07 perma-mark mutation!!! 15:26:14 mumra: I thought you were just changing five letters back to lower case, how did you make that not compile? 15:26:25 The lowercase assert doesn't cause problems indeed, but I'm not sure if it's actually part of JS definition 15:26:26 SamB_XP: i know, crazy right :P 15:26:31 elliptic: how about triggered by dealing damage, with odds dependent on mutation rank? 15:26:38 SamB_XP: except, i left it as uppercase for the C generated files 15:26:40 * SamB_XP can't really use a browser right now because this computer be crazy old 15:26:45 mumra: oh 15:26:52 SamB_XP: but the same function is also used to generate js files where it needs to be lowercase 15:26:57 so i had to add a new parameter and everything 15:27:07 rebuilding CAO ... fingers X'd 15:27:13 mumra: oh 15:27:22 cjo_dcss: hm... triggering by dealing damage might be tricky unless you just mean melee damage, and I'd rather not make it melee-specific 15:27:24 X'd looks like a very strange smiley 15:28:22 cjo_dcss: I was just thinking of a chance of triggering any time you are adjacent to hostile(s), with odds/damage depending both on mutation rank and on number of adjacent hostiles 15:28:35 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:41 ellipitic: that sounds fun 15:28:45 cjo_dcss: but something else might work better in practice, that's just a thought... experiment with it and see what feels good :) 15:29:46 Heading out 15:30:13 I don't suppose anyone knows the best pick of already-coded functions to find adjacent monsters? I got a little lost the last time I looked through the functions to find stuff. Will look again though. 15:30:20 See ya Cryptic 15:32:22 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-496-gd170eac: Fixed Javascript errors introduced in webtiles by 95663a 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d170eacdc543 15:32:47 cjo_dcss: adjacent_iterator iterates all adjacent squares 15:33:05 mumra, thanks 15:33:41 cao rebuild is slowwwwww 15:33:56 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:20 the suspense is killing me 15:34:24 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:36 elliott: X'd is clearly the smiley for someone who just got punched and had their nose broken :P 15:35:19 mumra: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdEJ4WnFDQjZhcGgyS3puWk1zQU9saEE#gid=3 15:35:36 mumra: i interpreted it as crying and sticking out tongue 15:35:41 according to this spreadsheet you have clearly broken everything :P 15:35:43 mumra: yeah, compared to CSZO anyway 15:36:10 elliott: maybe trying to lick the tears off its face? 15:36:13 -!- morik__ is now known as morik 15:36:17 tenofswords: haha, what's new? 15:36:18 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:35 although today i've been fixing things for a change 15:36:42 -!- cjo_dcss has left ##crawl-dev 15:37:14 well I was thinking with the wide implications of changing D stuff I was thinking of taking this ridiculous mess of 29 D layouts holy shit and trying to see if distinguishing early/middle/late D with specific layout weights would be good or not 15:37:39 it' 15:37:53 it's going to be 30 layouts soon but yeah, i've been wanting to look at this 15:37:58 useful spreadsheet 15:38:07 although really because of all of those new layouts I have to go get tiles minimap screenshots so it means something to people besides you and me when I note all of these names 15:38:20 NAME: layout_carcassonne 15:38:23 what is the connection between a cave town and a layer cave and a hall of layers??? 15:38:23 WEIGHT: 200 15:38:27 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:48 no connection 15:39:01 they are completely different generators 15:39:01 but the names 15:39:26 most layouts that mention cave use worley (sometimes simplex) noise to make geometry with rugged edges 15:39:34 layout_carcassonne sounds exciting 15:39:45 elliptic: you know the game? 15:39:49 yes :) 15:39:52 that's basically how the layout works :) 15:40:10 maybe crawl should just have a way to dump tiles minimaps because it is kind of silly that the main way to show off a layout is through so much effort 15:40:16 will it have like 10 expansions? 15:40:36 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-496-gd170eac (34) 15:40:40 ten branch variations 15:40:45 Medar: very probably, yes ;) 15:41:05 tenofswords: I think it should support screenshotting the whole map knowledge, too 15:41:16 that'd also be good, sure 15:41:50 * SamB_XP wonders if it could even screenshot in hugetiles using some kind of curses magic ... 15:41:55 er. hugeterm 15:42:40 yeah, this would all be really useful 15:43:20 unknown monster: "git g848cc07" 15:43:20 %?git g848cc07 15:43:23 %git g848cc07 15:43:23 Could not find commit g848cc07 (git returned 128) 15:43:29 <|amethyst> remove the g 15:43:32 %git 848cc07 15:43:32 03Medar * 0.13-a0-434-g848cc07: Don't let blood potions rot in shops 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 7+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=848cc07e59d3 15:43:41 ugh 15:43:49 * SamB_XP still isn't quite sure why the g is there in the first place 15:44:08 stupid arbitrary days skipped with the rss trunk feed 15:44:45 ??logs 15:44:45 I don't have a page labeled logs in my learndb. 15:44:49 ??log 15:44:50 log[1/2]: A section of a tree trunk. Good for clubbing enemies with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iP4s-IOF3E 15:44:55 ??log[2] 15:44:55 log[2/2]: trunk commit log: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl-ref.git;a=log 15:44:58 <|amethyst> I think you can do 15:45:02 !learn del log[1] 15:45:03 <|amethyst> %git 0.13-a0-434-g848cc07 15:45:03 03Medar * 0.13-a0-434-g848cc07: Don't let blood potions rot in shops 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 7+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=848cc07e59d3 15:45:03 no, that's not the log I was looking for 15:45:03 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:45:03 Deleted log[1/2]: A section of a tree trunk. Good for clubbing enemies with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iP4s-IOF3E 15:45:12 oh, interesting 15:45:17 I was looking for IRC logs of ##crawl-dev 15:45:21 I guess I'll just stick to starting with screenshots of the old layouts just to accurately depict them 15:45:22 <|amethyst> probably it's there so git knows which part is the revision 15:45:26 the irc logs are in the topic 15:45:36 SamB_XP: /topic 15:46:01 I suppose that *is* easier than scrolling back to when I joined 15:46:16 tenofswords: looking at the two sheets, i'm quite surprised how *little* i've altered the chance for standard layouts 15:46:19 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:46:35 layout_basic is clearly too high of a weight 15:47:38 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:45 hmm, but I guess grepping in those logs wouldn't be particularly pleasant ... 15:50:03 yeah, layout_basic is very dominant; but i left it that way because not many of the new layouts ever produce much in the way of narrow corridors and i didn't want to massacre the terrain too much everywhere 15:50:33 however now i'm getting down to more corridory/doory layouts this can maybe change 15:51:00 clearly before criteria based on making layouts more open/structured/whatever with depth should wait until you make a magic lua function thing to scatter worming tunnels and pillar blocks in the middle of all those fancy patterns 15:51:11 s|before|| 15:51:15 oh, when did cao rebuild and not tell us? 15:51:28 -!- Taco_Princess has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:51:51 It did tell us 15:52:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:53:43 oh, when did cao rebuild and not tell us? 15:54:02 about half an hour ago 15:54:09 er 15:54:09 no 15:54:11 13 minutes ago 15:58:40 sorry 15:58:41 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:51 i typed something else 15:59:02 but i must have hit the up arrow or something and repeated previous statement :S 15:59:23 anyway yeah looks fixed in trunk now, although spectating some games is broken presumably because they haven't transferred their save 15:59:37 indeed 15:59:49 morik: try the game when you like 15:59:54 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 16:00:06 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20121208085021]] 16:01:13 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:41 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-497-gc511d3a: Remove a superfluous Javascript log 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c511d3ab6023 16:06:09 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:48 ah, that "input mode" log was bugging me since before i had rights 16:07:30 Haha, yeah. That's a good change. 16:07:42 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:49 hmm, maybe it'll fix the lag? :P 16:08:56 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:17 -!- LexAckson has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:26 I should get on with that fix. 16:09:37 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:46 (i am actually half serious, since that happened on every keypress, it could be causing like milliseconds of delay) 16:09:47 Pretty much requires client.js update, not sure how to deal with that 16:10:45 With the current lag problems, few milliseconds makes no difference :p 16:10:53 a lot of the client stuff scares me, even though i'm a web programmer and i do a ton of javascript, i'm not used to that way of handling exports 16:10:56 Probably not even on localhost, as the render times aren't great either 16:13:43 browsers are weird though; console.log could trigger a html update in the developer console so it could be a non-trivial delay, i have no idea really (but i've seen performances issues before that i solved by removing some logging i'd forgotten about) 16:13:58 Interesting 16:14:33 anyway, any possible decrease in delay between keypress and the message actually getting sent has gotta be good 16:16:13 tenofswords: back on layouts -- yeah, carving tunnels and adding pillars is something i want to do on the more open layouts. i have some ideas about this. and these new grid-based layouts it's much easier to engineer tunnels in the first place. 16:16:24 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:59 mmmm, bodes well 16:17:01 tenofswords: and i don't want to start any big adjustment of weights until a general scheme has been decided; like should things start off chaotic and gradually get more orderly/open? 16:17:08 -!- Boyo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:18 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:19 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:17:21 tenofswords: or should there be maybe a spike of orderlyness around mid-late D and get more chaotic again before zot? 16:17:22 -!- rchandra1 is now known as rchandra 16:17:27 so many options... 16:17:41 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:17:53 such a scheme is the main question, yeah 16:18:22 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:23 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:18:53 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:00 oh also -- some of those layouts can be combined, i should do this first as well i think. there are maybe three or four that can disappear and just become variants of other layouts 16:19:13 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:19:13 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:19:14 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:19:23 going to be so fun to update that spreadsheet again 16:19:50 hmm, it should be easy enough to generate it. somehow. 16:20:01 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:14 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:16 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:23 but i'll try to remember to keep a copy and update it when i change things 16:20:37 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:42 hooray for actually keeping notes when doing things 16:24:06 mumra, seems good so far 16:24:15 cool 16:24:42 will play a bit more then verify the issue 16:24:44 later tonight 16:25:05 do you think it also fixed https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6967 ? 16:25:22 for a while I was getting like butterfly icons for bats, weird potion icons where it was 2 half potions, etc 16:25:28 doesn't seem to be happening anymore 16:25:42 morik: no, normal refresh should fix that issue every time, although we should stop it happening in the first place 16:25:45 i have a vague idea why it happens 16:26:20 my most annoying issue right now is the [more] issue 16:26:33 but that is somewhat trivial, just a quality of life annoyance 16:26:33 :) 16:26:37 tenofswords: there are going to be more new layouts of course. every time i implement one idea i think of another two. this carcassonne thing as a new algorithm should lead other places and is itself a continuation of what i did with layout_stronghold ;) 16:27:17 -!- Boyo has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:19 going to need a flaming sword, then 16:28:36 morik: what's the [more] issue? 16:28:40 to actually have any hope of doing things before more come up 16:29:16 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6837 16:29:27 in webtiles at least it scrolls 1 line too far 16:29:31 Oh right, I meant to look at that 16:29:33 you ahve to open your log to see the line you missed 16:29:53 I took a very brief glance at messages.cc, but only had like 2 minutes so didn't get anywhere at all :) 16:30:03 (more like 15 seconds of glancing at it...) 16:33:06 -!- myrmidette has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:33 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:05 it's more likely a .js error 16:34:24 it's a bit unfortunate quite a bit of stuff seems to be replicated on the .js side 16:34:42 someone on the forum did make a comment and i was like "hmm, why not?" 16:35:04 along the lines of "why do we need a webtiles client, can't the desktop client connect to a server for online play?" 16:36:25 and ... yeah, that would be a really good thing. it can't be completely impossible (ludicrously hard probably but then webtiles doesn't exactly look like it was easy) 16:36:37 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 16:36:43 -!- IHPDA has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:46 well, I like playing at work when I take breaks, or on my work laptop if I have it handier than my desktop (i don't have a personal laptop) 16:36:54 and I'm not able to install the desktop client on either of those 16:36:56 that' 16:36:58 :-] 16:37:00 that's the advantage 16:37:09 and if I want to show someone new the game 16:37:13 they don't hvae to download anything 16:37:14 That kind of sounds like the obsolete NetTiles that I wasn't around to play with 16:37:32 ah right, yeah i heard that mentioned before but never saw it 16:38:05 Of course I don't really understand the upsides and downsides of doing it one way or the other 16:38:14 webtiles also has the advantage of getting game updates automatically; but then, it would be great if the desktop version had an option for self-update 16:38:19 (NetTiles upside: no spectator chatbox) 16:38:26 hehe 16:38:36 the other upside of desktop version: better performance 16:38:44 yeah I mean the desktop version would have to sync with tiles definitions frequently 16:39:06 it would work like currently, so there are multiple versions of the server 16:39:07 I'm imagining it's a better fit for for a stable version than a trunk version 16:39:29 currently the servers run multiple versions so i don't think it'd be hard supporting multiple desktop client versions the same way 16:40:10 Well I suppose it's not like most tiles get updated all that much 16:40:28 and I guess it has the fallback option of displaying a glyph instead anyway 16:40:45 it's not just about the tiles, there are lots of things why your client needs to be the same version as the server 16:40:58 yes, I'm just thinking of the one that's most obvious to a player 16:41:12 anyway, there was some discussion recently about forcing players to upgrade their saves which would disappear these issues straight away ... 16:42:14 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:22 At any rate I suppose a desktop client would -possibly- end up dodging a lot of the weirdness where certain browsers perform horribly at certain aspects of Crawl 16:42:50 like "don't go into Shoals with Firefox, you'll be praying for death quickly if you do" 16:43:11 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 16:47:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:59 The weird thing is, I don't really have a problem with that 16:49:12 Then again, I play in US and the lag is insane anyway :p 16:49:41 But my friend has that issue... with Chrome 16:55:59 really, the water issue? 16:56:15 on firefox it's a rendering thing 16:56:19 i'm pretty sure 16:57:20 I've heard people say it isn't one on Chrome 16:57:32 but I'm not getting another web browser just to play one part of a computer game :P 16:59:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:50 Guess I'll do some benchmarking at some point 17:02:34 I have a fix for that WebTiles more issue, changing var msg_height = 6; to 7 :P 17:02:45 i still kind of want to rewrite webtiles to use
sprites instead of canvas 17:02:47 Let me just make sure, that's the right fix 17:03:00 That's actually faster? 17:03:04 for a while i've been claiming that it would be much more optimal and nobody believed me but i just found some data: 17:03:05 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4842872/performance-of-moving-image-on-web-page-via-css-vs-html5-canvas 17:03:17 it's at least 2x faster using 17:03:21 in some situations a lot more 17:03:32 you see browsers are coded to use 3d accelleration to draw div layers 17:03:36 my issue is lag, not CPU time :) 17:03:47 but I assume that isn't globally true 17:03:56 it's a highly optimised render, they couldn't get it any faster; canvas is actually a more abstracted layer so it's harder to optimise 17:04:12 and canvas isn't so widely used so a lot of browser vendors aren't taking the trouble to optimise it 17:04:21 Yeah, interesting 17:04:28 especially with html5 generally now doing most things that you can do with images in canvas 17:04:46 But yeah, if you are playing online it's not the rendering speed that's a problem. At least according to my tests. 17:04:56 Maybe in specific cases 17:05:06 true enough, although rendering speed can still be adding ms to key response time 17:05:13 It does indeed. 17:05:43 and if you're getting 20-30ms response already then a few extra milliseconds isn't a negligible difference ;) 17:05:55 optimisation also lowers the bar for computer spec 17:06:13 If your ping is 20-30ms, then you get like ~100ms response or something like that 17:06:36 But yeah, even then the rendering speed might be noticable 17:08:49 i think the performance improvement might even be better than in that stackoverflow test, because we don't need to *move* any divs ... usually it's just flipping the background-position values to show a different sprite, on a static grid of divs 17:09:20 so the browser doesn't have to reflow even a single part of the layout 17:09:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:35 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:43 (this is wildly theoretical of course but i vaguely know what goes on inside browsers) 17:11:09 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 17:11:44 browser reflow is really noticeable, performance-wise 17:11:49 (hi, i work at a performance company now) 17:12:27 particularly when there are a lot of tiny divs 17:13:34 -!- Sealer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:59 Ok, added the 1 character patch for https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6837 17:14:36 -!- Ark is now known as Guest16144 17:15:01 Eah, maybe it's wrong. I can't count. 17:15:27 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:44 Eronarn: yeah but if all divs are absolute and only one div is moving, that *shouldn't* reflow all the other divs, at least in modern browsers right? 17:18:13 mumra: it won't actually do anything, but it does have to check whether it has to 17:18:19 yeah 17:19:01 just render one huge image on server side ;) 17:19:03 this does seem to confirm my suspicion anyway that those sprite tests would be even faster with background swapping rather than moving ... 17:19:22 Medar: sure, that would totally be really fast ;) 17:19:45 one image as big as the whole map, so spectators can pan and zoom around it too 17:19:53 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:20:42 mumra: each map as a z layer, so you can use the firefox 3d inspector to look at the dungeon 17:20:49 yesss 17:21:47 -!- Fear has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:52 * SamB_XP wonders what the rust-colored mounds on the ends of some caps next to the CPU on his not-working computer are ... 17:26:00 at least, I think it's still not working 17:27:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:27:10 maybe this mysterious arrangement of metal rings that I found next to the USB/firewire card was shorting something out -- there was a lot of kernel CPU being spent on USB-ish stuff before I turned it off ... 17:31:18 hmm, nope, doesn't seem to have changed anything 17:33:02 Grunt: You hear the slow falling of a rocks, a long way away. 17:33:35 You hear the slow falling of a distant rocks. 17:33:36 etc 17:39:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:04 -!- Porost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:44 Bah. I thought I caught all of those. >:/ 17:49:10 (just checking in really quickly; back more permanently in about ten minutes) 17:49:37 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:55:03 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:03 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:17 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:28 -!- Ryansee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:17 -!- omniguy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:54 -!- Arivia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:32 -!- tureba_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:01:58 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:36 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:52 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 18:17:10 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:14 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-498-g83d8fbe: Fix up the volcano portal messages again. 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83d8fbef16c5 18:24:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:24 -!- Guest16144 has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:27:17 !tell kilobyte I can't reproduce your post-27b33f27 hangups; were you testing with a build before ff77f02? 18:27:18 Grunt: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 18:31:42 -!- mnoqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:27 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 18:43:39 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:43:44 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:44:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:46:51 -!- inpho has quit [Quit: inpho] 18:47:40 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:47:55 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:54 !tell HangedMan what do you think about using simple serial vaults as a mechanism to do things like adding columns and other decor to the really open layouts ... can think about adding more control over vault placement itself to make this work 18:48:55 mumra: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 18:49:46 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:29 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:52:04 I'm contemplating #6936 again - would anything seriously break if we fired fineffs after individual melee attacks, instead of the entire group of them? 18:52:13 Well, not instead of. 18:55:19 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [] 18:58:38 mumra: what's the difference between a serial vault and a layout anyway ;-P 18:59:09 heh, true 18:59:36 well, sometimes serial vaults mess up a perfectly good layout ;) 19:03:40 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:06:09 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: rivs is afk (probably sleeping)] 19:14:20 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:15 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:34 -!- ubuntu is now known as Guest59036 19:15:48 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:15:50 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 19:15:59 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:06 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:26:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 19:33:53 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:08 -!- Luxivar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:41 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:48:56 -!- Ryansee_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:50:11 03Grunt 07* 0.13-a0-499-g2da1268: Print resist messages for relevant AF_ melee attacks (#6960). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 47+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2da126803135 19:56:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:42 * SamB_XP wonders if the AF_ things also auto-ID resists? 19:57:13 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:37 Oh right, that was the thing I was about to check. 19:59:11 Yes, it does! 19:59:19 I think it formerly didn't do that, no less! 20:04:10 -!- santiago__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:16 -!- santiago_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:07 -!- zamao has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:05 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:44 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:20:41 * SamB_XP is glad there was another, nearly identical system around to replace his recently deceased one 20:20:57 * SamB_XP waits for windows updates to install ... 20:22:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:56 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:47 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:05 -!- eb has quit [] 20:30:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:35:44 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 20:37:29 -!- Taynav has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:26 that skald buff was pretty huge, kinda makes fi/gl look bad 20:39:26 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:49 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:41:04 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:25 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:42:56 -!- Utis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:17 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:33 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:45:08 -!- ddubois has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:50:00 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: NO] 20:58:11 -!- Flun has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:10 -!- alefury has quit [] 21:06:55 -!- Guest59036 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:00 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:11:23 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:14:54 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949]] 21:21:00 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:39 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:22 -!- Unflexed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:19 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:24 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:46 -!- eb has quit [] 21:43:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:30 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48:21 * SamB_XP wonders why he doesn't remember his other system being blury before ... did it spontaneously switch to 1280x960 on his 1280x1024 display, or has his optic centre been compensating for it so he didn't notice before ... ? 21:48:30 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:55 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:12 * SamB gripes about how 1280x1024 displays never should have been manufactured -- at least not with 4:3 physical dimensions ... 21:54:03 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:55:11 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:13 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:18 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:55 -!- Wehk has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:57 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-499-g2da1268 22:09:06 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:20 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:35 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:10 -!- Insomniak` has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:52 -!- Zelda has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:15:45 -!- morik1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:46 auto-targeting issue with ensorcelled hibernation etc by battaile 22:16:46 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:20 hai 22:17:31 * Grunt waves bh. 22:17:43 !abyss Grunt 22:17:44 oops! 22:17:45 bh casts a spell. grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 22:17:51 * Grunt escapes from the Abyss! 22:19:45 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:20:00 -!- morik1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:08 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:20:09 -!- morik1 is now known as morik 22:21:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:43 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:27:33 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:46 -!- Sealer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:13 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:31 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:35 "Jellies ate a door and all eatable loot in Zig level" -- what's wrong with that? 22:41:30 That sucks, but the solution seems to be to prohibit Jellies in zig, rather than protecting the loot 22:48:44 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: auf wiedersehen] 22:55:17 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:51 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:56:39 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:02 hi bh 22:57:03 mumra: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:57:14 there was some discussion about this jelly/zig thing the other day i remember 22:57:27 it was (or used to be) possible to stop jellies eating doors with a flag 22:57:35 s/was/is/ 22:57:42 ah 22:58:00 what if we just stopped Jellies from eating doors unless they're pursuing something? 23:01:29 possibly good; i'm wondering if there are any vaults designed to allow jellies to escape but it sounds like a bad vault if there is 23:01:57 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 23:02:22 bh: some new layout pics by the way - http://pbrd.co/14UdxhY 23:03:07 way cool 23:04:15 this is an early and technically broken version of something i've been generally working towards for a while 23:04:27 but the brokenness looks kind of cool anyway 23:06:07 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:17 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:52 <3 grep -- `grep eat_door *.h` :) 23:07:10 The solution to the jelly zig thing seems pretty simple to me. Just give it a runed door. In fact, I believe it was the addition of runed doors that broke the old jelly protection on the zig loot room doors. 23:07:25 If I recall correctly 23:07:57 DracoOmega: that's another reasonable solution. Do you think it's desirable to have jellies able to bumble around the dungeon eating all the doors? 23:08:21 Well, it's a lot less consequential in general than them bumbling around eating loot 23:08:32 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:08:35 And sometimes it is interesting if they eat open some other vault, on the rare ocassions it happens 23:08:54 Like one of those animal zoos or what-not 23:09:22 bad_vault: jellies + doors + alarm traps 23:13:49 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 23:14:07 I think there may have been some complication with figuring out WHAT in the zig lua needed to be changed to give it a runed door, but I am not familiar with it and could be wrong there 23:16:11 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:43 -!- ckyle has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:37 yes, zig loot is specifically meant to be protected 23:18:37 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:18:49 but when i looked at it briefly i had no clue how to fix up the zig lua to make the doors runed 23:19:10 I think I may have found it? 23:19:12 Going to go test 23:19:21 I don't really understand it, but I found a + that I think is the door 23:19:26 So I made it a = :P 23:19:49 i think i tried that and it crashed or didn't work or something, but i don't really remember 23:20:07 Haha, maybe 23:20:07 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:20:11 Zig code is not the clearest 23:20:47 %s/Zig/crawl/ :) 23:21:01 replace all zig code with zigsprint code 23:21:13 Hmmm... well, that didn't work, I think 23:21:26 I think it put an item inside the normal door, though! 23:22:36 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:39 well, those chambers are in ziggurat.des, I'm not sure why the door isn't actually in the vault 23:23:55 DracoOmega: it's line 491 23:24:03 of ziggurat.lua 23:24:05 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24:11 Yes 23:24:15 I changed that, and it didn't work 23:24:16 what does this do: e.marker("@ = feat: permarock_wall") 23:24:28 that seems pretty weird 23:24:45 st_: I'm not either, but I suspect there may be some complex and unintuitive reason 23:24:47 yeah 23:25:04 @ is supposed to do something else, and doesn't permarock already have a char? 23:25:40 Besides, it's not permarock 23:25:41 Why is there no Ash temple in Fedhas Sprint? 23:25:43 That's where the door is 23:27:13 does Ash work properly in Sprint? 23:27:14 aha, can do marker door_restrict="veto" 23:28:26 I think a runed door would be better, frankly 23:28:37 So that it would be more obvious to the player that it is protected 23:28:49 As opposed to looking just like a normal door, but not actually functioning like one 23:30:54 Okay, clearly I understand this lua less than I thought. Since I deleted all the other monster sets so that only slime levels would show up... except that doesn't seem to have had any effect on the other monster sets showing up 23:30:57 ??apt 23:30:57 aptitude[1/4]: A number from -5 to 5 reflecting your character's ability with a specific skill; higher is better. An aptitude of n means the race takes 2^(-n/4) times as much exp to advance as a human. Press ?% in game to see the big table of races and aptitudes. An aptitude of -1 or better is good, -2 is manageable even as your main skill, -3 is quite bad. 23:31:18 !apt og 23:31:18 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -4*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: 3!, Polearms: 0, Staves: -1, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Stab: -2, Shields: -1, Traps: -2, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 23:31:38 ??ogre 23:31:38 ogre[1/7]: Ogres have low accuracy and health, but can deal a lot of damage when they hit. It is a good idea to pick them off from a distance, using poisoned projectiles. Are notable for their slow attacks with giant (spiked) clubs. If you step away after it swings, you might create a gap. 23:32:11 I do not understand 23:32:36 Is the lua being cached somewhere and not properly recompiled or something? 23:33:01 bh: I have no clue. I never see ash as a choice. 23:33:26 Havvy: I suspect Ash piety gain would work oddly with sprint 23:33:56 Due to the low amount of curse scrolls? 23:35:03 You get piety from exploration. There isn't much zig to explore. 23:35:03 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:35:09 er, %s/zig/sprint/ 23:35:39 DracoOmega: shouldn't be 23:35:50 Then make the piety gain higher per tile? 23:35:56 DracoOmega: you can add weight = 10000 next to jelly_protect however 23:36:05 that will make jelly floors extremely likely 23:36:13 mumra: Well, how does that explain deleting all the others not making them go away, though? 23:36:26 !apt hexes 23:36:27 Hexes: Vp: 4!, Fe: 4!, DE: 3, Sp: 2, Dr[purple]: 1, HO: 0, HE: 0, Mf: 0, Ds: 0, Op: 0, SE: 0, Hu: 0, Na: 0, Ko: 0, Mu: -1, Ha: -1, Dg: -1, Dr: -1, Ce: -1, DD: -2, Gh: -2, Te: -3, Og: -3, Mi: -4*, Tr: -4* 23:36:40 !apt vp 23:36:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:40 Vp: Fighting: -1, Short: 1, Long: 0, Axes: -1, Maces: -2, Polearms: -1, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: -2*, Armour: -2, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 5!, Stab: 1, Shields: -1, Traps: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 4!, Charms: 1, Summ: 0, Nec: 1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: 1, Fire: -2, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: -1*, Evo: 0, Exp: -1, HP: 0, MP: 0 23:36:41 Oh, wait... silly me 23:36:47 Not ALL of them are defined in that big statement 23:36:47 forget to save? 23:36:50 oh 23:36:52 There are several more below it 23:37:03 DracoOmega: yeah was just about to say did you delete those too ;)# 23:37:06 Oops! 23:37:12 Much less mysterious now 23:37:24 ??grey elf 23:37:25 grey elf[1/1]: A race of elves very like deep elves with very good air magic. Removed far back in the mists of time. 23:37:48 ??ogre mage 23:37:48 ogre mage[1/3]: Like Erolcha, but with more HD, haste other, random generation, a band, and a delicious magenta flavour. All the same warnings apply. 23:37:48 Still need to wait for a full clean compile to finish, though :P 23:37:51 ??ogre mage[2] 23:37:52 ogre mage[2/3]: Playable race in Crawl versions before 0.5 23:37:57 ??ogre mage[3] 23:37:57 ogre mage[3/3]: ogre magi are terrifying they're like wizards except they actually appear 23:38:18 DracoOmega: to be honest i've got this fixed now anyway 23:38:31 i know why items place in the runed door, i can fix that 23:39:15 Well, I suspect you may have just a LITTLE more familiarity with lua layout than me, so.... 23:39:23 layout code* 23:40:09 But sure, I'll leave you to it, then. Though, why did replacing the + with = not make it a runed door, incidentally? 23:43:52 DracoOmega: hmm, i am hitting something weird, runed doors just don't seem to work in zigs for an inexplicable reason 23:44:20 Hmmm.... wasn't there some issue with them not working in sprints for some inexplicable reason, too? 23:45:30 brainstorm: zombie species. You don't heal. You can't use stairs. ;) 23:46:35 yes, doors are odd in portals and sprints 23:46:43 can't use runed doors, can't recolour them 23:46:57 case DNGN_RUNED_DOOR: 23:46:57 grd[x][y] = DNGN_CLOSED_DOOR; 23:46:58 you used to be able to, portal_branches or whatever broke it 23:47:03 I wonder if that has something to do with it? 23:47:17 dbg-maps.cc, line 98 23:47:22 -!- Arivia has quit [Client Quit] 23:49:25 Oh, is that just for map stats or something? 23:49:37 Looked promising >.> 23:53:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:53:39 DracoOmega: if it's a runed door won't that warn the player when they try to enter it? 23:53:56 It doesn't warn people. It's just you won't autoexplore through it 23:54:20 tbh i think just applying the veto is actually fine; we don't need to explain to players why the jellies didn' 23:54:29 didn't go in there, they'll assume it's just coded to be safe 23:54:51 Well, I don't think it's a big deal. I think a runed door might be more intuitive, but especially if runed doors don't seem to work, a veto is quite fine if it does :P 23:55:01 But it would be nice to figure out why runed doors don't place 23:55:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:15 Since sprint, at the very least, could definitely benefit from being allowed to use them 23:55:21 it's just making the door runed does end up items sometimes buggily placed (although maybe this is connected to the problem) 23:55:45 i.e. it's made runed but appears as a normal door and suddenly the check for loot spaces thinks it's a floor ... pretty odd 23:55:51 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:56:23 Well, I'm not sure how much of that is zig code doing odd things with how it places the loot vault, and how much is a more general runed door portal bug 23:56:31 Possibly some combination of the two here 23:59:12 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]