00:00:28 Stable (0.12) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-b1-64-g6654d37 00:02:31 i definitely think that algorithm has a lot of potential, and is very flexible in what it can be used for. e.g. simply using it for how monsters follow sounds 00:03:25 algorithmically: every time there is a noise, create a marker on the grid, which fades slowly over time 00:03:38 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-207-ge113bd6 (34) 00:04:33 monsters will investigate that spot unless subsequent noises supercede it (each additional noise could reduce other marker values by a given %) 00:04:53 -!- substitute has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:53 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-207-ge113bd6 (34) 00:05:53 something else you could do is make narrow corridors dampen the grid by more than open ones, so monsters will prefer more open corridors if a route is available 00:06:01 which would avoid some of the corridor jamming issues 00:08:22 Maurice could corner hide. 00:18:00 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:18:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:14 mumra: for a proof of concept, I'll just make everything in the dungeon hunt the player. 00:18:57 03bh 07[diffusion] * 0.13-a0-199-gd9d68c2: Cleanup diffusion header 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 30+ 27-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9d68c2148aa 00:20:26 bh: this includes the stairways? 00:21:14 SamB: no, I'm going to leave that alone 00:21:30 so the stairways aren't in the dungeon then? 00:21:35 ;-P 00:21:47 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-207-ge113bd6 00:23:38 !abyss SamB 00:23:38 bh casts a spell. SamB is devoured by a tear in reality! 00:24:03 * SamB suspects this tear in reality is also known as his bed 00:26:58 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:28:30 -!- dcssrubot284 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:05 ??bad ideas 00:29:05 bad ideas[1/1]: See http://crawl.akrasiac.org/bad_ideas.txt or http://sites.google.com/site/cherrypickedbadideas/ for ortoslon's selection of ~100 favorites. 00:29:08 ??untrue 00:29:08 I don't have a page labeled untrue in my learndb. 00:29:13 ??learndb 00:29:14 learndb[1/12]: A html page of learndb entries is at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html . You can also access the learndb at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots . 00:29:22 ??learndb[2] 00:29:23 learndb[2/12]: The main commands for the learndb are add, query, edit, swap, and delete. See [3] for add and insert, [4] and [5] for edit, [6] for query, [7] for swap and move. You can read entries in private queries to Henzell. You cannot change it in private, however. 00:29:28 ??learndb[3] 00:29:29 learndb[3/12]: "!learn add article_name article text" adds an article to the learndb. !learn insert article_name[index] text adds an entry with a specific index. 00:29:44 !learn add untrue All problems relating to crawl development can be solved by adding more source files. 00:29:44 untrue[1/1]: All problems relating to crawl development can be solved by adding more source files. 00:30:13 heh 00:31:03 bh: simplest option definitely sounds best for testing 00:31:25 -!- the_glow_m has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:33:52 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 00:34:27 hmm, shouldn't i be allowed to eat poisonous chunks if i really want to> 00:35:45 we could make that just kill you 00:36:55 i'm wearing an unidentified ring 00:37:14 or if you're starving and have !curing 00:37:15 which i'm now 100% certain is rPois, since mephitic clouds aren't affecting me 00:37:32 although the ring doesn't self-identify which seems like another bug 00:38:27 mumra: what else are you wearing? 00:38:29 I feel guilty writing object oriented code for crawl and I can't tell if this is a good or bad impulse. 00:38:38 lol 00:38:41 SamB: ! o_0 take it to private chat 00:38:48 -!- tophat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:38:57 I meant, anything un-IDed? 00:39:13 haha 00:39:36 no, nothing else that could be rPois 00:39:40 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:21 yes, but the auto-ID code counts un-IDed gear 00:40:58 i have a vampiric scythe that isn't fully id'd, but it's not an artifact so it couldn't have any other properties 00:41:33 but i don't want to unwield it since that would defeat the purpose of trying to save permafood :) 00:41:38 okay, so it could just be a failure to call the auto-ID code in the cloud case? 00:42:39 anyway, do a backup, report a bug, and tag it ID 00:42:58 I'll try to take a look at it later ... 00:43:45 existing issue: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5295 00:45:35 that doesn't look like the "doesn't auto-ID" bug I meant 00:45:39 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:46:03 though it's also a bug ... 00:46:06 well no, but it seems closely related 00:47:44 so report another and mark it related, but don't forget the ID tag ... 00:48:10 hmm, I guess this one can get the ID tag too though 00:48:42 * SamB goes to bed 00:52:22 -!- Isabel has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:17 -!- nimiz has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:55:28 -!- Wolfram has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:56:00 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:40 i had a look at the code, seems fairly difficult to modify to get "does player *know* they're immune" in there 00:57:02 auto-id shouldn't be so hard though 01:00:16 usually there's a thing you pass to the "is player immune/resistant" check 01:00:34 (which defaults to false) 01:01:08 * SamB realized he was pretty hungry so grabbed a snack before bed 01:02:35 here there's a bool for "accept temp resistances" but not "consider player knowledge" 01:02:59 -!- ISAIAH_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:03:21 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:43 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:04:23 if you look at the implementation it calls through to player_res_poison which has a calc_unid 01:04:29 was it all this talk of tasty poisonous chunks that made you hungry? ;) 01:04:31 and evidently I got the sense reversed 01:05:18 no, I stood up and noticed my hunger level 01:05:20 ohh right yes i did get there, it's just a lot of steps through to there from the "are you sure you want to walk into that cloud" messages 01:05:36 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:05:48 where's that? 01:06:02 it's the cloud danger check that only considers temp resists not player knowledge 01:06:19 player.cc line 152 01:06:32 is where the message is anyway 01:07:40 oh, I see 01:08:10 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:32 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-208-gab36ef9: Don't require equipment juggling to autoidentify evokable jewellery 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 23-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab36ef975590 01:09:46 I guess is_damaging_cloud needs a new parameter 01:12:16 the codepath is a huge mess; there are numerous functions that need a new parameter 01:12:27 int player::res_poison(bool temp) const 01:12:35 guardian spirit is evokable now? 01:12:39 return player_res_poison(true, temp); 01:12:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:02 i think sorting out the rPois thing involves sorting out loads of other cloud and resistance code to fix other resistances and idents 01:14:11 well, yes 01:14:19 which is probably why nobody did it yt :) 01:14:19 it seems they're all broken 01:14:48 but I think it's probably not hard 01:15:16 anyway, opening a bug with your findings would be a good idea ... 01:15:33 yep 01:15:40 or, wait, we have a bug for THIS 01:15:55 namely https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5295 01:16:06 just needs a more general title 01:16:29 yeah, the auto-id thing is different 01:18:23 What crawl could really use is a Maybe type. I'm sick of using magic values. 01:18:52 Just might be painful 01:19:39 03SamB 07* 0.13-a0-209-ge9144b0: Check that -Wmissing-declarations doesn't fail before using it 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e9144b097a98 01:19:41 It's better than Nothing 01:20:08 I meant to push that hours ago but I got distracted after "git pull --rebase" ... 01:20:28 bh: does that make the warnings go away? 01:21:17 SamB: no idea. I'm not really inclined to run a clean build at the moment 01:21:38 SamB: auto-id was easy, BEAM_MEPHITIC was just missing from the poison case in maybe_id_resist 01:21:47 unless i'm missing any reason why it shouldn't be ther 01:21:51 mumra: oh, that's a beam? 01:22:00 mumra: Got it working! I goofed it up though and made all the monsters run away 01:22:09 even better 01:22:22 SamB: cloud flavours are converted to beam flavours when they do damage 01:22:34 mumra: I'm pretty sure it would have been somewhere else if there was a GOOD reason 01:22:42 I mean, if the good reason was WHY 01:23:05 and would have IDed rPois in any case 01:23:08 someone should have left a comment if it was intentionally omitted 01:23:20 I'm sure that's not it 01:23:41 if it was something like that, it *would be there with a comment and a break 01:24:03 okay, to bed for realz this time 01:24:40 bh: great! maybe it can be used for running away behaviour anyway when appropriate ... 01:24:49 SamB: night 01:26:28 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:31:59 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 01:32:05 ok so ... poisonous clouds don't already identify rpois and i can't figure out why 01:36:38 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 01:47:08 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:35 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 01:58:34 -!- dcssrubot795 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:44 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:09:57 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:11:43 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:18 03bh 07[diffusion] * 0.13-a0-200-gd7e90f5: Basic Player Seeking 10(6 minutes ago, 5 files, 93+ 24-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7e90f5bc2cc 02:24:45 -!- gluup_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:28:22 -!- squimmy_ is now known as squimmy 02:45:36 Ring of poison resistance not identified when standing in mephitic / poisonous clouds by mumra 02:52:50 -!- Isasaur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:55:30 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:33 Hello, I have a query! 02:57:33 shoot! (not many around right now though) 02:59:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:08 Well, it's slightly complicated. 03:01:20 Previously there were resources available for the rate that monsters regenerated health. 03:01:39 The information I have on it is practical - I know the division rate for health regeneration and the general way it is factored. 03:01:52 However, I cannot find the specific formula in code. 03:02:07 I am wondering where it is! 03:02:10 interesting ... 03:02:22 i am wondering what this information is particularly useful for though? 03:02:40 Knowing how quickly monsters regenerate lets you know if you can run away to a net gain or not. 03:03:38 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:55 -!- syraine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:00 Lagged out, hehe. 03:04:24 look at effects.cc line 2600 03:04:33 / This is the monster healing code, moved here from tag.cc: 03:04:45 I read that, hm 03:04:51 Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough 03:04:59 that's off-level healing 03:05:13 maybe it's the same though 03:05:58 std::max(mons_natural_regen_rate(*mi) * 2, 5); < What is mons_natural_regen_rate 03:06:10 it's a factor based on their hd 03:06:14 I know that =P 03:06:18 I do not know the factor 03:06:35 Like, the other code in the list of miscellaneous functions just shows the same variables 03:06:41 And then it divides them 03:06:48 grep mons_natural_regen_rate 03:06:49 you could grep it 03:07:08 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:16 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:08:29 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 03:10:48 syraine_: at least in my actual in-game experience, there has never been an occasion where resting would result in any significant net gain over the monster's regen 03:11:13 suddenly getting a lot of gcc warning: no previous declaration for 03:11:19 and to be honest if it was common that this could be done, we should buff monster regen to rule out tedious gameplay lik this 03:11:33 on cdo, for both, mingw and dgl 03:11:35 Napkin: that's probably SamB's flag change, did you update to his last commit? 03:11:46 or did the servers update i mean? 03:11:59 doesn't look like it 03:12:17 Mumra, monster undead and golems regenerate exceedingly slowly 03:12:20 update to latest git commit, you mean? 03:12:37 yeah, there was a commit about 2 hours ago and i can't see any update messages from bots since then 03:13:15 both builds were 3 hours ago - close call ;) 03:14:16 To be precise, monster holiness being undead gives a quartered regeneration rate, with the exception of Enslaved Souls. Meanwhile, monster holiness being unliving reduces it to a fifth of its original value. 03:14:52 that's right 03:15:01 Not only that, the divisor function reduces monster regeneration inversely proportionate to the monster's hit dice, with a cap of 1/3. 03:15:10 If I understand it. 03:15:26 i actually thought most undead didn't regenerate at all but of course it's hard to tell 03:15:26 So there are many examples of situations where it is better to run away and heal than to fight. 03:15:49 -!- dcssrubot855 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:15:56 Anyway, I don't have the code, so I can't Ctrl+F through it 03:16:15 I did go through the repository 03:16:20 ah well, you should probably get the code if you need to do this kind of digging ;) 03:16:28 I cannot as yet. :< Soon though! 03:16:30 I wish. 03:16:38 why not? 03:17:00 -!- Wester has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:15 you don't actually even need git to download a source bundle ... 03:17:57 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:18:16 That's true. I am working on a networking thing and it is hard to download files right now. It's pretty boring, but by tomorrow I will be able to download whatever. 03:18:41 'Nyway, I will keep looking. 03:21:52 well, mons_natural_regen_rate is in mon-stuff.cc anyway 03:31:02 i'm actually slightly shocked that gitorious doesn't have a code search feature 03:31:05 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:33:38 Hm 03:33:45 Well, it's definitely something between those 03:34:00 Mons_natural_regen_rate is just all that holiness stuff 03:34:04 Holiness and HD 03:34:26 syraine_: apparently with high HD monsters it is definitely possible to heal significantly enough faster than they do 03:34:35 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:47 Yeah, I was saying that it's very, very easy to heal faster than a low HD monster 03:35:07 Particularly, like, a worm 03:35:48 i think it's particularly if they have high HP relative to their HD 03:36:04 Yes, that is true 03:36:15 std::max(mons_natural_regen_rate(*mi) * 2, 5); mi->heal(div_rand_round(turns * regen_rate, 50)) < This is supposedly how it works 03:36:31 but, i don't tend to try and fight stuff if they're killing me faster than i'm killing them: it seems a dangerous strategy at least until you have ddoor 03:36:41 However, I believed that monster HP regeneration was capped at 1 03:36:55 It's a thing to do if you have Swiftness 03:37:02 Hit an orc warrior, run away, heal, hit an orc warrior 03:37:13 Particularly with large, inaccurate weapons 03:39:08 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:27 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:29 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 03:46:17 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:36 -!- fbafelipe has quit [Quit: Saindo] 03:57:35 -!- nago__ has quit [Client Quit] 03:58:21 -!- eb has quit [] 04:02:33 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:26:53 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:28:34 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:29:29 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33:09 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:33:22 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 04:49:39 -!- JamezQ has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:02:03 -!- dcssrubot538 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:11 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: absolutego] 05:02:38 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:47 -!- ISAIAH_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:05:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:16:14 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:32:22 Gain foo potions still show up in the \- list of unidentified potions by Galefury 05:37:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:57 -!- greensnark has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43:05 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:57 -!- Sysice has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:25 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:32 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:22 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:23 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:06:39 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 06:31:10 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32:07 -!- dcssrubot649 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:44:32 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 06:55:14 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:01 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:00:54 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 07:12:21 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:13:21 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:43 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:22:18 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:23:15 SamB: what would you say about building with --std=c++11 on new enough compilers? 07:25:42 SamB: by itself, that would give us better static_assert messages, and make unique_ptr and unordered_map more efficient (they get #defined to auto_ptr / map on c++ < 11) 07:26:42 but more importantly, we could drop nasty hacks needed to do static_assert on gcc-4.8 07:28:44 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-210-gfa483a7: Unbreak saving/loading with TAG_MAJOR_VERSION > 34. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa483a7f2c32 07:32:45 -!- Aryth has quit [Client Quit] 07:32:47 -!- Aryth12 has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:33 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:41 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:15 -!- Duralumin has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:48 -!- Duralumin has quit [Client Quit] 08:02:12 -!- dcssrubot269 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-211-g9152304: Don't list potions of gain foo among unindentified. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=915230454acc 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-212-g22612f7: Auto-id rings of rPois upon quaffing a potion of poison. 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=22612f7865ba 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-213-g1568660: Make yyerror() static. 10(42 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=15686604a032 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-214-gf9539ca: Shuffle some function prototypes to correct places. 10(32 minutes ago, 7 files, 5+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9539ca3bb36 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-215-g37816e6: Inline a trivial function. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 7-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=37816e6b376e 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-216-g46a7735: Staticify. 10(20 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=46a77350b35d 08:04:10 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-217-g560c41a: Drop unused marshall-to-vector. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 17-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=560c41a0c096 08:13:23 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 08:19:00 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:40 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:44 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:36:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:19 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:19 -!- blackcustard has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:43:22 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 08:44:12 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:44:42 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-218-g2ae2d42: Fix a crash and a corner case wrong behaviour. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ae2d42d190b 09:05:30 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:24 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:02 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:15 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:42 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:37 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:43 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:29:31 -!- Duralumin has quit [Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)] 09:32:17 -!- dcssrubot992 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:54 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:03 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:37:36 enter_volcano_4 can trap the player 09:38:10 if there's no path through the lava and the player use !flight to reach the portal 09:38:24 should we add an hatch? 09:38:43 aren't there lots of vaults that can trap the player if they use !flight? 09:39:51 oh maybe 09:39:57 what's the policy then? 09:40:38 prevent players from trapping themselves with a random teleport, but let them assume anything with !flight? 09:41:40 not sure... certainly we should prevent players from trapping themselves with a random teleport, either with no_rtele or with a hatch 09:42:03 this one has no_rtele 09:43:00 !tell bh diffusion may be used to improve how monster search the player when his fleeing (out of LOS). The current behaviour is quite awful. 09:43:00 galehar: OK, I'll let bh know. 09:44:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:21 <|amethyst> hrm 09:44:35 <|amethyst> Restarted scoresd.py and it seemed to work this time, but no updates 09:45:28 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:32 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 09:51:12 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:51:29 <|amethyst> the log stops after the "seeking" messages, and the daemon's running but not using any CPU 09:52:02 <|amethyst> and I don't know the scoring stuff well enough to know what's going on 09:52:24 <|amethyst> I guess the database and files are out of sync because it crashed previously? 09:52:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:09 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:25 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:01:35 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 10:02:43 <|amethyst> ah there we go 10:02:46 <|amethyst> it's processing now 10:02:59 <|amethyst> I just wasn't patient enough 10:03:11 <|amethyst> forgot that several days of games can take tens of minutes 10:03:11 * Grunt hands |amethyst a wand of speed process. 10:05:34 <|amethyst> iotop installed, and now I can see that things are happening, because mysql is near the top 10:05:39 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:16 -!- dcssrubot311 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:41 -!- treefrog has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21:43 mumra: the new zot layouts are pretty cool, but much harder imo 10:22:29 alefury: yeah; i think i need to add more detail (pillars and other internal structures) to break things up a bit 10:22:51 mostly the lack of omnipresent corridors is what makes it harder, pillars arent going to change that 10:22:56 are these layouts in 0.12? 10:22:57 anyway, im not sure it even needs changing 10:23:01 0.13 only 10:23:57 then it's a nice test opportunity. It's not like making the game's almost final part harder is a bad thing. 10:24:09 yeah it was fine 10:24:13 my dude was pretty strong though 10:24:16 kilobyte: that's what i thought, which is why i waited til after the freeze 10:24:40 obviously, in moderation, but that's exactly what playtesting is for :) 10:25:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-219-g9071e1b: Fix a --test (only) assertion failure. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9071e1be6da8 10:25:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-220-gaa6dc37: Fix a --test -DDEBUG_FATAL crash. 10(80 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa6dc37addec 10:25:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-221-gac0c84f: Don't print the line number in -DDEBUG_FATAL messages. 10(50 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ac0c84fcdde1 10:25:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-222-g1d504a9: Fix a --test regression wrt repeatedly placing fixed uniques. 10(39 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d504a9b0f5a 10:25:50 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-223-g211afdb: An ugly hack: exempt tentacles from arena faction calculations. 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 8-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=211afdb1629c 10:26:23 the contrast between the hall of zot and the realm of zot was much smaller 10:26:32 dont know if thats good or bad 10:27:24 mhm, i'm not sure either; less contrast is good but i don't want every level feeling like Zot:5 10:27:48 much weaker monsters in 1-4 10:27:53 Zot should be distinctive, but Zot:5 needs to be especially distinctive. 10:28:12 Grunt: orbs of fire & co will take care of that :D 10:28:28 Rather, orbs of fire en masse tend to do that. 10:29:01 You see maybe one at a time on 1-4 and before entering the Hall proper, when you can still generally see them one at a time, but in rapid succession!!! 10:29:14 Also, aliches in the Hall. 10:30:15 in other news, newnewabyss is a fucking hellhole 10:30:24 You *just* realised this? 10:30:38 i havent been playing much... 10:31:02 i went to check it out and get the rune, A:5 was really intense, but also quite annoying 10:31:17 Hint: don't go below A:3 next time :b 10:31:23 i had fought a kraken, so i was pretty sure the rune was nearby, but i just didnt get the time to go get it until quite a bit later 10:31:23 new abyssal monsters are not exactly balanced 10:31:44 i still think the fatality of newabyss is vastly overrated given the fatality statistics dracoomega came up with 10:32:04 i didnt have a lot of problems until A:5 10:32:21 We're going to have a better sense of how lethal inceptionabyss is once players in general get their hands on it. 10:32:22 ill just not go there again 10:32:33 well you don't have to go below A:3 to get the rune; it's a good thing if you find yourself pressure if you go to an optional level to get the rune quicker 10:32:45 if no characters where overwhelmed by A:4-5 they'd have no reason to exist 10:33:55 the new vaults monsters were really fun btw 10:34:01 just the preservers didnt do anything 10:34:02 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:19 -!- Kintak has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:25 also, convokers are brutal 10:35:07 fun though 10:35:09 there are complaints especially about starcursed asses vs early banishment, what about removing them from A:1 at least for 0.12? 10:35:40 they were easy by the time i went to abyss, early they might be very deadly 10:35:52 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:16 i don't think the abyss should give away all it's tricks on A:1 anyway 10:36:43 tentacled starspawn is another candidate that could be banned from A:1 imo 10:36:58 i think starcursed masses are interesting 10:37:09 people seem to die to them mainly because they run away from them like everything else in abyss 10:37:26 i lost a guy because i couldn't kill a starcursed mass fast enough 10:37:35 that they force you to play differently doesn't seem like a problem to me, though probably the numbers need tweaking 10:37:38 they have quite a bit of hp 10:38:08 I think very early banishment is rare enough that it's not a major balance concern, at least, and I personally dislike the idea of monsters being restricted to e.g. A:2- because it reduces the number of reasons to dive down 10:38:18 (A:3- might be reasonable for some monsters, though, since that's already a breakpoint) 10:39:22 is there currently a reason to dive down? 10:39:27 other than getting the rune? 10:39:52 fewer enemies means you can cover much more ground in the same time 10:40:26 so i doubt finding exits would be much easier on A:2 10:40:46 i agree in general though, if theres a breakpoint there should be only one 10:41:13 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:40 ideally now that mon-pick is done the distribution of the monsters can change instead of there just being more monsters, yeah 10:41:52 that was the original plan, iirc 10:41:55 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:42:41 there were a lot of monsters on A:5 10:42:46 arguably too many 10:43:19 it was interesting though, very intense 10:43:34 i just dont know why anyone would go there, knowing what to expect 10:44:55 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:45:41 -!- Luxivar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:21 grinding abyss 10:46:30 the most common crawl strat 10:49:58 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:51:44 yani: when carrying the orb, the chance of a random monster being a pan lord should be proportional to (number of runes)/(current floor) 10:52:51 on d:1 each monster is replaced by 15 panlords 10:53:42 rast: pan lords in nethack? 10:54:12 you probably meant yaci :p 10:54:59 ontoclasm: the oklob fort would need to be pretty big, but farming this might be doable :p 10:56:02 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:47 -!- simmarine has quit [Client Quit] 10:56:54 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:05 -!- Hirasi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:59:09 isn't yani = yet another new idea? 10:59:23 ontoclasm: about shields: wouldn't it be better if worn versions matched inv ones? 10:59:30 yaci, yet another crap idea 10:59:49 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:59 ontoclasm: like, shield_middle_unicorn (currently in doll_only) with shield1_elven 11:01:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-224-gded2514: Fix a crash during startup. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ded251442c5f 11:01:50 -!- Zermako has quit [] 11:04:39 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:46 -!- bh has quit [Changing host] 11:04:46 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:49 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 11:04:50 -!- KafkasDad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:56 !seen mumra 11:04:57 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:04:57 I last saw mumra at Sun Apr 7 15:36:16 2013 UTC (28m 40s ago) saying 'i don't think the abyss should give away all it's tricks on A:1 anyway' on ##crawl-dev. 11:05:04 !messages 11:05:04 (1/1) galehar said (1h 22m 4s ago): diffusion may be used to improve how monster search the player when his fleeing (out of LOS). The current behaviour is quite awful. 11:05:05 hi 11:05:17 * kilobyte meows at bh. 11:05:37 re: bands: What if band leaders were smarter than the followers and the presence of a leader conferred its intelligence to the members? 11:06:45 bh: there are complaints about starcursed masses being too harsh on early abyssings (a monster you can't either kill or run from) 11:07:04 bh: that's basically what i was suggesting, the band members have more advanced behaviour until you take out the leader 11:07:45 not sure if just following the leader isn't enough 11:08:17 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:26 kilobyte: check out the branch `diffusion` 11:08:50 !lg * place=Abyss killer=drowning 11:08:51 37. Iskender the Severer (L16 HuWn), worshipper of Fedhas, drowned in the Abyss on 2013-03-18 18:37:13, with 92742 points after 38083 turns and 11:23:53. 11:09:20 ??lg 11:09:20 listgame[1/7]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 11:09:34 !lg * place=Abyss killer=drowning 36 11:09:35 36/37. Serfuzz the Merry Centaur (L18 CeHu), worshipper of Okawaru, drowned on Abyss:2 on 2013-03-10 13:14:34, with 183642 points after 52933 turns and 4:39:21. 11:09:46 !lg * place=Abyss killer=drowning 35 11:09:47 35/37. Kellhus the Swordmaster (L27 MiGl), worshipper of Trog, drowned in the Abyss on 2012-12-01 03:09:59, with 670212 points after 107755 turns and 4:50:14. 11:21:46 kilobyte: oh, yeah, i suppose 11:21:52 i'll mave that one over 11:21:56 didn't see it 11:22:22 ontoclasm: not all have matches, though 11:22:30 yeah 11:22:35 i could make some i guess 11:23:38 i don't think it's terribly bad if the item tile doesn't match the doll tile 11:23:43 that's already the case for robes 11:24:04 my math skills kind of fail me: if --mapstat 1 takes 0m46.663s, why does --mapstat [100] finish in 11:24:08 17m12.086s ? 11:27:53 ontoclasm: I guess the look of elven shields/bucklers should take shield-carrying elf monsters into account 11:31:37 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-225-ge35754e: Typo fix. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e35754ec9ce1 11:32:52 mumra: one issue with hill climbing and fleeing monsters is that they could get stuck in local maxima 11:33:44 kilobyte: how many maps does --mapstat 1 generate? 11:33:52 oh! there's a solution for that. Don't have them run away from the player, make them run toward some point far away from the player 11:34:11 mumra: 1 11:34:32 how does it take 46secs to generate one map? 11:35:02 one map for every possible level in the dungeon, that is 11:35:25 in an unoptimized build, too 11:36:09 my guess (and from what i've seen using mapstat on individual levels) is that there's a very high variance which evens out when you're doing it 100 times 11:36:51 or possibly on the first runthrough it's skewed by loading various includes which it doesn't need to do on subsequent runs? 11:37:11 i think the main thing that causes high variance is vault placement 11:37:21 loading them should take a tiny fraction of a second 11:37:34 (the des cache was built) 11:38:05 when i'm testing a single layout that i know should take about the same amount of time every generation, i'll see repeated anomalous results that could only be caused by vault placement screwing with the time 11:41:13 it's been making things really hard to optmise, since level generation times were varying wildly no matter what i did 11:41:27 which is why i wrote that profiling lib so i could see just what was going on within my layout code 11:41:46 --seed 1 11:41:54 ahh handy 11:42:23 obviously, optimizations that take a different number of RNG calls will break it 11:43:24 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:46 vault placement can definitely sometimes take an inordinate amount of time. it's worst when there's nowhere for the vaults to actually go, like with an encompass layout 11:46:06 why does it even try then? 11:46:23 because there's nothing telling it not to 11:46:38 an encompass vault implies it's pointless to place minis 11:46:52 Cherry-picked 2 commits into stone_soup-0.11 11:46:55 yup (i commented this on the mantis issue you raised about D:27) 11:46:59 unless it somehow clears MMT_VAULT, but I don't think anything does 11:47:19 D:27 doesn't have encompass ones 11:47:26 it definitely does 11:47:38 if I understand this right, this is about vaults being opaque? 11:47:42 no 11:47:57 that might not be helping, but it's not the main problem 11:48:33 the first thing to do is stop random vaults placing when there's an encompass vault. and perhaps with large orient vaults it should try to place less random vaults also. 11:49:05 but, from the place where the functions are called for vault placement, i couldn't find a way to find out if a non-layout encompass vault had been placed 11:50:20 maybe the simplest way is to count how many grid squares have the MMT_VAULT mask 11:50:20 -!- dcssrubot968 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:57 the encompass vault problem is also what's causing a lot of branch ends to take longer 11:51:30 but it's worse on D:27 due to a combination of factors. sometimes you have an ORIENT vault that's taking up half the map, _plus_ a large zot entry gets placed 11:51:50 and then if e.g. a serial vault also places it'll take forever trying to find space to fit all of its vaults 11:52:14 * SamB chuckles at "starcursed asses" 11:52:23 and because it's cramming them all into any available space, it's extremely likely to cause disconnects -- with or without transparent tags! 11:52:56 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 11:53:29 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:50 maybe in branch ends (including D:27) we shouldn't be placing any random vaults at all 11:54:10 radical 11:54:21 what branch end is causing problems? 11:54:27 all of them! 11:54:38 bad branch end! 11:54:47 on kilobyte's mapstat output you can see that all branch ends are taking way longer on average to generate 11:55:23 a good part of the time because of one being encompass 11:55:38 when in fact it should really be the opposite since with an encompass vault you shouldn't even need to render the layout ... 11:55:42 so the problem are not encompassing vaults? 11:55:56 the problem is that vaults are still trying to place, even when there's an encompass vault 11:56:08 but since there's no room for them it tries 5000 times then gives up 11:56:18 (i think 5000 tries was the limit i saw in a loop somewhere) 11:56:22 couldn't we switch: first, roll whether you want an encompassing vault (always for D:$); if so, drop out; if not, roll for other vaults? 11:56:54 always compass vault on D:$ might get a little repetitive, I think only two can place there right now 11:57:04 dpeg: that would be ideal, but the code path is slightly bizarre so it's a little difficult to refactor that way 11:57:06 dpeg: the generator already knows whether it placed an encompass one 11:57:21 kilobyte: can't it bail out immediately after? 11:57:30 kilobyte: i wasn't able to find a way to detect an encompass vault. 11:57:33 elliott: true! 11:57:44 kilobyte: specifically, you have to check whether the encompass vault was a layout or not 11:57:48 since all layouts are encompass vaults 11:57:53 We could treat encompassing vaults completely differently from the rest. 11:57:58 beh, _pan_level already does that properly 11:58:01 ah, I see 11:58:04 only the normal generator doesn't 11:58:10 so simply a check for whether an encompass vault has been placed will return true always 11:58:20 ok, i haven't seen _pan_level 11:58:25 mumra: a layout vault is always encompass... 11:58:33 kilobyte: yes that's what i'm saying 11:58:56 an encompass vault is always placed 11:59:14 but when that encompass vault is a layout, it's ok to place random vaults 11:59:22 Do I understand correctly that non-layout encompassing vaults are the bottleneck? 11:59:29 but when the encompass vault is a non-layout, i.e. a branch-end map, we shouldn't place random vaults 11:59:31 found a bug 11:59:41 mumra: yes, exactly 11:59:42 when casting MR-checking spells 11:59:49 the tragetter won't target hell hounds 11:59:52 dpeg: they're not a bottleneck in themselves; but the subsequent behaviour of vault routines are 11:59:54 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:54 targetter* 12:00:00 but they're perfectly susceptible 12:00:03 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:04 because the whole map is MMT_VAULT so nothing can place (but it tries 5000 times anyway) 12:00:11 <|amethyst> mumra: maybe encompass vaults should have a tag or such saying whether to place subsequent vaults? 12:00:17 smarmy (L16 HOPr) ASSERT(feat > DNGN_UNSEEN) in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 583 failed. (Abyss:1) 12:00:18 mumra: shouldn't the encompass vault be able to choose whether or not random vaults should be placed? 12:00:19 maybe that has something to do with eh not targetting crimson imps or whatever (but didn't that get fixed?) 12:00:27 it did get fixed 12:00:28 <|amethyst> what SamB said 12:00:34 i targetted imps my last game just fine 12:00:40 like, with a single flag rather than marking every square 12:00:45 maybe 0.12 vs 0.13 thing 12:01:06 |amethyst / SamB: yes; i just couldn't work out how to get that information to the right place to use it 12:01:12 to skip the random vault placement calls 12:01:33 all you'd really have to do is check for a layout tag on the primary vault 12:01:37 well, so we need a way to check (say) the tags on the ENCOMPASS vault, if any 12:01:47 oh yeah, i guess this version is a little old 12:01:58 or as i suggested earlier, count the number of MMT_VAULT squares and if it's above a certain number then skip vault placement 12:02:17 SamB: there might even be a way to check the tags but i couldn't find it 12:02:25 lair generates a lot of vaults connected with long straight corridors 12:02:51 mumra: isn't there a variable with a list of the vaults? 12:03:00 beh, actually, _pan_level is broken 12:03:56 I'm beginning to suspect that doing taxes is slightly more interesting than Labs. 12:04:02 it checks whether it should skip secondary vaults, but that check is moot as there are no eligible ones anyway. And then there's a regular placement attempt later, which fails for the same reason. 12:04:31 kilobyte: so, isn't there a danger that we'll accidentally use some C++11 features we don't want to use if we build in C++11 mode? 12:04:51 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-13-g9771293 12:04:58 bh: there are people for whom doing taxes has an erotic component! 12:05:18 jeanjacques: ?? i'm not sure what that's got to do with it? 12:05:19 \o_0/ 12:05:20 SamB: you mean, it working for me or you, then failing in some other environment? 12:05:26 SamB: good point then :( 12:05:44 SamB: any ideas how to handle that? 12:06:03 nothing. i just randomly mentioned it here because it happened quite a few times recently 12:07:42 jeanjacques: are you saying it's good or bad or just something that happened? 12:07:57 we're mostly dragged down by OS X, which ships ANCIENT gcc, and in versions that have usable clang they already dropped support for any not-newest releases of OS X 12:07:59 -!- namad7 has quit [] 12:08:23 its a bad level gen flaw or vault placement check flaw 12:08:26 well, I guess we could deal with it as it comes to our attention ... 12:08:31 jeanjacques: why? 12:08:53 I don't suppose there are any flags to pick just the features we want? 12:09:00 it looks jarring and not connected at all 12:09:13 I guess that would be hard on headers though ... 12:09:21 jeanjacques: could you give an example with a screenshot, i'm not sure how this is different from vault placement anywhere else? 12:09:28 and is very non obvious if you try to find branches 12:10:10 vault placement could certainly be improved in general, quite often it creates very weird-looking layouts 12:10:18 mumra: you can look at my cdo game right now 12:10:20 * SamB wonders what the point of nullptr is 12:10:27 i am loooking at the map 12:10:30 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:39 -!- johnny0_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:10:39 speaking of null pointers, would anyone object to me adding a Maybe type? :) 12:10:44 mumra: the only difficulty is passing "I did place an encompass vault" from _builder_normal to the outside 12:10:49 nice corridor 12:10:52 jeanjacques: ok i'm looking 12:11:14 kilobyte: yes i think that's about where i got to, wasn't sure the best way to do it 12:11:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:11:21 the slime entrance is the more extreme case there 12:11:21 bh: well, it sounds like a worthwhile experiment, but maybe on a branch to start with? 12:11:22 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 12:11:44 jeanjacques: hmm ok, maybe it should be using the spotty vault connector like shoals (this is something i think hangedman suggested at some point) 12:11:51 SamB: I can jam it into diffusion branch, since that's where I want to use it 12:11:59 jeanjacques: there are other branches that have those kind of problems as well 12:12:13 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:15 mumra: &placed_encompass_vault, env.level_state |= HAS_ENCOMPASS_VAULT, etc 12:12:24 oh, well, if you just want to use it in some experimental new code than sure 12:12:29 SamB: Boost provides optional, but I'm not sure if we want to pull in Boost. http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_49_0/libs/optional/doc/html/index.html 12:12:31 *then 12:12:34 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:35 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:35 -!- sacje has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:48 %s/not sure if we want/pretty sure that we don't want/ 12:12:54 yeah 12:13:38 kilobyte: ok, that makes sense 12:14:08 * bh poisons crawl with object orientation 12:15:26 -!- clemux has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:42 mumra: there's a place that calls: _place_chance_vaults(); _place_minivaults(); _place_branch_entrances(); _place_extra_vaults(); -- it's about skipping that 12:15:51 kilobyte: exactly 12:15:52 well, branch entrances 12:16:02 kilobyte: except you don't want to skip branch entrances or uniques 12:16:17 yeah, the rest of the function is good of course 12:16:28 like, monsters or stuff 12:17:30 is there a way to simply access the primary vault that was placed, so i could check tags on it? this could solve some other problems (like picking the right vault connectors for the type of layout like that problem jeanjaques mentions) 12:18:30 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-225-ge35754e (34) 12:18:41 since the check isn't just whether it was an encompass vault; it has to be an encompass vault that didn't have layout tags 12:19:12 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:22:32 mumra: that's why you don't look at the orientation 12:22:48 mumra: what does he look at then? 12:22:53 mumra: _builder_normal already does the right thing, just look inside at the code path for encompass vaults 12:23:53 it's not about the orientation of any map placed, it's about the orientation of the primary one only 12:24:04 kilobyte: oh, you mean just returning after placing the primary vault? 12:26:05 why can dungeon have non-orient primary vaults, anyway? 12:26:19 er, non-compass 12:26:23 gah 12:26:29 er, non-ENcompass 12:26:35 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:07 * SamB got confused because the less important word is capitalized in this comment 12:29:24 -!- browncustard has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:47 so ... what code is placing these ORIENT: encompass vaults and then proceeding to try to place additional vaults? 12:31:35 kilobyte: but layout vaults are encompass vaults too ... 12:31:55 hang on 12:32:01 mumra: those are placed in a different code path 12:32:23 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-226-g937ef52: Fix a warning by adding a missing prototype (and related includes). 10(14 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=937ef5271fc9 12:32:25 though wait 12:33:00 kilobyte: I don't really see _build_normal doing anything to cause minivaults to be placed or not ... 12:33:19 er 12:33:22 _builder_normal 12:33:22 SamB: no, that's in the function that calls builder_normal, et... 12:33:48 -!- KafkasDad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:02 in fact _build_dungeon_level() calls _builder_by_type() which calls _builder_normal() 12:34:13 and it's in _build_dungeon_level that i need to know whether it was a layout or not 12:34:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:04 crawl_state.game_standard_levelgen() is what it checks, huh 12:35:19 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:45 SamB: what checks that? 12:35:45 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:35:49 !messages 12:35:50 (1/1) HangedMan said (20s ago): 90-angle corridor connectors with @s/float orientation are the worst like everywhere and I want them all dead dead dead dead dead 12:36:03 _build_dungeon_level 12:36:31 -!- bitsailor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37:01 hmm, that doesn't check anything about the map though, just the gametype 12:37:04 SamB: ok yeah, that just means "not zotdef or sprint or whatever" 12:37:33 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:37:42 SamB: and in any case, some things inside that if clause need to happen regardless - like placing uniques and branch end 12:37:42 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:37:46 !messages 12:37:46 (1/2) HangedMan said (26s ago): the main blocker for encompass vaults not stopping other vaults from placing are branch entrances in the D ones, somebody would need to use some NSUBST and portal markers and a enter_vaults kfeat in an appropiate mix or else encompasses would veto a lot 12:37:51 !messages 12:37:52 (1/1) HangedMan said (6s ago): (yes a patch of this sort was on my todo list, too bad) 12:38:24 hangedman is like the ghost in the machine 12:38:49 Um, strange method of communication you have there, HangedMan 12:38:58 could you teach it to dolorous? 12:39:07 (he just commits stuff) 12:39:16 !tell hangedman we really just shouldn't try to place other vaults when an encompass vault is there 12:39:16 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:39:17 mumra: OK, I'll let hangedman know. 12:39:20 !messages 12:39:21 (1/1) HangedMan said (27s ago): I prefer unseen horror thank you very much 12:39:25 haha 12:40:08 <|amethyst> mumra: so that would mean no encompass vaults if the level has a branch entrance 12:40:29 |amethyst: no, branch entrances are allowed to overwrite encompass vaults 12:40:37 as are uniques 12:40:59 (what i mean is, _place_branch_entrances will place a single grid branch entrance feature if it can't place an entrance vault) 12:40:59 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:41:02 !messages 12:41:03 (1/1) HangedMan said (10s ago): well yes I agree with that premise it's just that you have to make sure somebody does said branch entrance nonsense too when that's done 12:41:30 * SamB doesn't get what kilobyte was trying to say about _builder_normal already working correctly ... 12:41:34 <|amethyst> mumra: right, but you don't want the zot entry vault to be just a single randomly-placed feature, do you? 12:42:07 |amethyst: no but the D:27 encompass maps have zot entrances built into them anyway, so _place_branch_entrances will in fact not do anything anyway 12:42:10 <|amethyst> aha 12:42:32 and the other case is ORIENT vaults, but with them there's normal layout space for a branch entrance to place 12:43:03 but what hangedman is talking about is if a D:27 encompass map _doesn't_ have a branch entrance built in then a single feature one will get randomly get placed 12:43:06 -!- Palyth has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:43:17 -!- Palyth_ is now known as Palyth 12:43:25 so those encompass vaults need fixing (but it's not a blocker if they're not fixed imo) 12:43:26 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:43:28 !messages 12:43:29 (1/1) HangedMan said (4s ago): actually I was thinking more of V 12:43:39 hi hangedman 12:43:40 ??? V doesn't have encompass vaults ... 12:43:40 I don't have a page labeled _v_doesnt_have_encompass_vaults_ in my learndb. 12:43:57 oh he means D entrances to V 12:44:24 hanedman: it'd be a lot less silly if you just joined 12:44:38 hangedman: it's not like you're "gone" or anything 12:45:03 |amethyst: also, sometimes you don't get a primary vault on D:27 at all, in which case there are no problems 12:45:03 mumra: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:45:06 !messages 12:45:06 (1/1) HangedMan said (1m ago): yes this is quite awkward but I stand steadfast to the beliefs of what made me leave three weeks ago 12:45:38 just join ##crawl-dev and stay out of ##crawl ;) 12:46:16 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:30 you know I also insulted a lot of the dev process also in that suicide note 12:46:48 and still hate trying to do almost anything 12:47:04 -!- bitsailor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:00 i woud probably not worry about it, you have contributed a lot of work on vaults you know 12:49:24 and in fact it was largely your encouragement and ideas that led to me doing so much layout work and getting far more involved myself 12:49:59 yes and yet there are still 18 patches for me to finish up with overviews on a lot of over-used pointlessly-used features or bad excess or nonfuctional aspects of most vaults and I am the only person picky enough to actually bother to clean up said areas without just throwing them out 12:50:29 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:08 tenofswords: how frequently did you refresh the logs? 20s? 10s? 5s? 12:51:52 today, minutes 12:52:06 usually, three times a day 12:52:07 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:29 it is not very supportive of me either to be unable to get away from this black hole 12:55:44 tenofswords: i probably have more unfinished patches / projects than that at this point i reckon, but you just have to make sure you're mostly working on things you enjoy working on 12:56:42 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 12:56:43 the only thing enjoyable at this current moment is correcting other people on their patches/projects 12:57:04 I think during the last three weeks I yelled at grunt a dozen times for stupid-easy vault fixes 12:58:51 -!- johnstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:00:49 well it's not like anyone is under a contract or anything, people do this because they like it; and people need mistakes pointing out sometimes 13:05:57 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:53 bh: after generate_abyss(), should normal vaults still be placed? 13:15:24 mumra: yes. 13:18:56 ok, because there are these specialised code paths for different branches, i'm just returning a bool to say whether additional vaults should be placed 13:19:37 <|amethyst> bh: any objections to making Worley::Worley static? 13:19:49 <|amethyst> bh: err, worley::Worley 13:20:06 |amethyst: isn't it parameterized? 13:20:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:19 if it isn't, go for it 13:20:23 <|amethyst> void Worley(double at[3], int32_t max_order, double *F, double (*delta)[3], uint32_t *ID) 13:20:25 -!- dcssrubot894 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:30 <|amethyst> cool 13:23:46 -!- ark__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:46 -!- ark__ has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:23 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:48 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:13 -!- PootAndStank has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:13 -!- BasedOnOprah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:38 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:38 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:38 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:06 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32:16 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 13:34:59 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:31 -!- zyne has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:37 hm. for gradient climbing monster escape, we could define a gradient from the player and one from each stair/hatch and have monsters flee toward a stair that is away from the player, or just away from the player if no such path exists 13:40:14 I think we should be able to get smart monsters to flee *toward* you and then escape through doorways 13:42:30 you mean rather than just hiding in the nearest corner if they happen to run that way? 13:43:51 right 13:44:42 I picked stairs because they're a stable feature and we wouldn't need to worry about persisting the data across saves 13:46:53 screw you, people using cause fear, if you have one of the best hexes to a very selective specific group you should be annoyed by better fleeing 13:47:29 tenofswords: go back to the tavern. 13:47:50 crap, I've become what I hate 13:48:28 It's not you I hate, Cardassian. 13:50:16 maybe fleeing monsters should sometimes take downstairs/downhatches/shafts 13:50:33 obviously going up would be annoying because you've probably already explored 13:51:54 does anyone know if at_branch_bottom doesn't return true on D:27 for some reason? 13:52:05 mumra: there's still zot? ;) 13:52:29 bh: yeah but zot is technically a different branch :) 13:53:13 I remember when asking about a check for such a thing I was told to just use something like "if you.depth() == dgn.br_depth(you.branch())" 13:53:39 yeah that's what i've used in lua 13:53:48 wonderfully awkward 13:53:53 and that's basically the check that at_branch_bottom is using 13:53:58 * SamB hits compiler errors ... 13:54:08 but it hasn't actually improved the D:27 case 13:54:16 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 13:54:34 basically i found that stopping vaults placing on encompass maps improved the speed a lot but the branch ends still weren't as good as other levels, 13:54:38 and D:27 still had big problems 13:54:46 so i'm trying to restrict all vault placement on branch ends 13:54:59 it's massively improved Crypt:5 but D:27 is _still_ horrible 13:55:30 did you use gprof or callgrind or anything? 13:55:32 mumra: instead of working around the problem, perhaps we could attack it directly? 13:55:46 most of vetoed D:27 maps don't seem to be disconnected 13:56:33 it oughta be possible to profile bool-returning things for return value 13:56:36 kind of disappointing to lose placing vaults on d:27 as such 13:56:54 kilobyte: i'm not convinced that vetoing is the problem. looking at mapstat output for D;27, most of them are really quick and then some just take ages 13:57:01 anyway, if we have bogus vetos it would certainly be a good idea to fix that 13:57:12 the number of vetos are enough to warrant a level taking about 10x longer or more to generate 13:57:20 ^aren't 13:57:37 what's the number? 13:58:02 idea: we could do some specific profiling, by measuring the time spent for a specific try 13:58:04 on average there is 1 veto per layout 13:58:26 kilobyte: we might need valgrind.h for that? 13:58:49 I mean, outputting the map, whether it was vetoed and accepted, all the maps, and the time spent working on it. 13:58:58 kilobyte: well you can see as mapstat churns through, there will be lots of very quick levels, and then it just hangs forever on one but it has only vetoed say 3 times 13:59:08 SamB: why? Just note the time before and after, then subtract. 13:59:08 it clearly took way longer than 3 times the normal levelgen time 13:59:08 oh, you don't want to profile all calls 13:59:10 -!- jday_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:21 * SamB sometimes finds call counts instructive 13:59:41 kilobyte: but yeah it would be pretty useful if mapstat told us the time for each try including the vetoed ones 14:00:29 is there a negation for the -k flag to make? 14:01:00 mumra: that's what I have in mind 14:01:15 mumra: measuring the time for a try, not for the whole process 14:01:51 ah, -S 14:02:01 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:07 kilobyte: ok i've disabled all random vault generation and there are still these *hugely* anomalous times. seeing the exact times would confirm it. but it's such a huge difference i can see it with my eyes. 14:02:23 the times still wouldn't tell me *why* it's happening ... 14:02:24 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:31 -!- rchandra has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:03:03 something is definitely very screwy, and it's not related to vetos, because some levels generate with vetos but are still quick. 14:03:09 so, we could instrument mapstat to make callgrind split its results by attempt ... 14:03:20 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:03:25 a different optimization: replacing "const coord_def&" with "const coord_def" seems to give a slight speed-up, especially if you also make coordinates shorts, except for the Abyss canned test, where it slows down 14:03:29 d:27 clearly is just delaying itself to be dramatic 14:03:43 and even more weird thing, with shorts it slows down far more 14:04:01 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:36 we need code profiling on the anomolous goes, it seems about 1/10 of levels are just jamming up somewhere 14:04:37 okay, no wonder compiling is failing; I have no AppHdr.h.d 14:06:40 with --seed 1, it's particularly noticable on attempts: 9/100, 10/100, 32/100,35/100, 51/100, 53/100, 54/100, 64/100, 68/100, 69/100, and several more after that 14:07:21 mumra: have you dumped the vaults used and/or maps? 14:08:01 i'm not sure how to get any debug output in mapstat 14:08:26 debuglog() is an easy way 14:08:49 I mean, the function exists precisely for cases like this 14:11:40 well, i didn't know it existed until then :P 14:12:02 if i do this: debuglog("VAULT: %s",vault->name); 14:12:08 then i get a compile error: 14:12:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:12:39 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:12:39 dungeon.cc:3024: warning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type 'const struct std::string' through '...'; call will abort at runtime 14:12:39 dungeon.cc:3024: warning: format '%s' expects type 'char*', but argument 2 has type 'int' 14:13:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:13:12 vault->name.c_str() 14:13:28 * geekosaur wuvs c++... (not) 14:14:01 so if a monster kills my enslaved mummy, *I* get hit with the death curse? :( 14:14:26 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:26 their insistence to keep string a strange template with quirks like char_traits instead of a first-class type seems strange, indeed 14:16:07 <|amethyst> kilobyte: first-class types all have fixed sizes currently 14:16:08 yeesh. who decided to introduce `or` as a keyword in C++ 14:16:23 kilobyte: Sure, I can use -x with cherry-pick. I was not actually aware of that option. But for the record, the commit in 0.12 you reverted that prompted this wasn't actually pushed by me 14:17:33 -!- rchandra1 is now known as rchandra 14:17:56 * SamB thinks string is a first class type, only it's got a really awkward canoncical name ... 14:19:49 Is there an alternative to being stuck with only declaring pointers and references to pure abstract classes? 14:21:26 I could replace my pure abstract class with a concrete base class, but that seems 'eh 14:21:29 <|amethyst> bh: no 14:21:29 bh: you can't allocate storage for a type whose size you don't know 14:21:33 <|amethyst> bh: because then you slice 14:21:40 <|amethyst> and there's no point in using inheritance at all 14:21:57 st_: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o0qWOD4Jdzv3mqIsz6fm-zffJjmNpTgdK9qNkYpz3v0/edit?usp=sharing 14:21:59 |amethyst: oh right. ack. 14:27:59 time to remove jesters? 14:29:54 bh: the fun times are over! 14:30:22 dpeg: I added Jesters so that players could be sad when I removed them. 14:30:24 * bh cackles. 14:30:34 oh, in true Xom spirit! 14:30:59 * dpeg should start a Jester, and not touch it for a year 14:37:32 -!- scrubnub has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:53 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-227-g93115fb: Remove a duplicate prototype. 10(84 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=93115fbd83c5 14:38:53 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-228-g23bacbd: Avoid a few trival wrapper functions, and declare some more. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 32+ 49-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=23bacbde8c78 14:38:53 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-229-g1b7deb9: Add a few #includes to avoid missing-declaration warnings. 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b7deb92a38c 14:38:53 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-230-gb433739: Make some functions static. 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 17+ 17-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b43373922bae 14:38:56 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:40:05 SamB: I'm still getting a warning 14:40:18 "-Wmissing-declarations" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++ 14:40:27 bh: hmm 14:40:45 <|amethyst> bh: what compiler and version? 14:41:04 I guess the test compile needs to specify C++ then 14:41:04 i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-g++-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc. build 5658) (LLVM build 2336.11.00) 14:41:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:42:23 or, well, it might help if we didn't use gcc -E for that ... 14:43:01 so finally a result: the only thing of any use i have discovered so far is that stopping the Zot entry vaults from placing solves the whole D:27 problem 14:43:20 kilobyte: can you figure out how to check for that warning flag working on C++? 14:43:32 but i can't see any correlation between any specific entry vaults and the problem happening 14:44:08 so skip zot, problem sovled 14:44:41 <|amethyst> SamB: would -x c++ do it? 14:44:55 SamB: just place the orb on D:27? awesome idea! 14:45:34 |amethyst: I don't know if that works when you do g++ -E ? 14:49:01 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-231-g3569abb: Fix a rare crash with door seals expiring 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3569abb297ad 14:50:31 -!- dcssrubot602 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:21 place it on geh:7 14:53:35 <|amethyst> SamB: oh, yeah 14:53:36 (was it geh:7? or 5, i forget) 14:53:48 * SamB wishes it were easier to cancel the "run away" command ... 14:53:55 the orb is in another dungeon 14:54:50 what, you mean you go on to another, harder dungeon from which there is no returning? 14:55:29 <|amethyst> SamB: I guess you could do $(GCC) -S -o - -x c++ - -Werror $$w 14:55:54 <|amethyst> SamB: I would have said -c instead of -S but that doesn't work with g++ on my system ("can't open a bfd on stdout -") 14:56:30 why CC and not XX? 14:56:41 <|amethyst> err, I meant GXX, sorry 14:57:56 <|amethyst> oh, derp 14:57:59 <|amethyst> -o /dev/null 14:58:30 that works with -c ? 14:59:01 <|amethyst> seems to 14:59:34 <|amethyst> okay, seems to work for me 15:00:02 <|amethyst> with gcc 4.7 (where it succeeds), 4.1 (where it fails), and clang (where it succeeds) 15:00:30 well I guess go ahead and commit it then 15:01:56 do we actually support building without CLUA anymore? 15:03:01 <|amethyst> actually 15:03:04 <|amethyst> -E does seem to work 15:03:06 <|amethyst> even better 15:03:29 <|amethyst> I had been testing with clang, not old gcc, because I misread what bh said 15:04:04 <|amethyst> -E -x c++ that is 15:04:12 03bh 07* 0.13-a0-232-g8784da8: Remove Jesters. 10(9 minutes ago, 5 files, 6+ 72-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8784da81ba4f 15:05:00 hm, s-z seems to have some games showing up on webtiles but not console 15:05:10 or at least i don't see floatRand in the console list 15:05:16 yes i was wondering about that 15:05:18 not sure if there are others 15:05:52 although this one won't last much longer anyway :P 15:06:02 oh wow or maybe it will 15:06:16 <|amethyst> hrm 15:06:22 <|amethyst> 0.12 games? 15:06:27 <|amethyst> maybe I screwed something up there 15:06:33 <|amethyst> no time to check now : 15:06:34 <|amethyst> ( 15:06:43 nope, floatRand is dcss-git 15:06:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:49 <|amethyst> oh, hrm 15:06:59 <|amethyst> no clue then... 15:07:41 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst check 0.12 game linkage, e.g. floatRang 15:07:42 |amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 15:07:45 <|amethyst> later 15:07:45 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:07:58 -!- a9qd0wf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:11 -!- Thalfon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:20 <|amethyst> fail 15:08:25 heh :P 15:08:28 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst check 0.12 game linkage, e.g. floatRang 15:08:28 |amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 15:08:37 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst check 0.12 game linkage, e.g. floatRand 15:08:38 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:08:38 |amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 15:09:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:10 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 15:09:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:10:12 -!- substitute has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:20 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-233-gd092828: Specify C++ when testing for warning flags. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d0928289126e 15:15:25 -!- Elkan has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:19:07 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:59 why do I get asked if I want to switch back to my main weapon when coming back from spiderform? 15:20:11 why doesn't it just happen in no time? 15:21:56 Possibly related to how you get vampiric on-wield effects when shifting out? 15:22:16 Probably goes through normal wield code, instead of just putting it back on you directly 15:22:51 -!- home has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:05 bh: about diffusion, I meant use it when the player is fleeing from the monsters, not the other way around 15:28:19 galehar: to handle auto-flee? 15:28:35 when you leave a monster's LOS, how it goes after you is pretty bad 15:28:41 sure 15:28:46 doesn't do any pathfinding, so they are easy to lose 15:29:36 Cherry-picked 13 commits into stone_soup-0.12 15:29:38 and there's a periodical stealth check on top of it 15:30:38 I think it'd be better if the monster could pathfind (or use diffusion) to your "supposed" position 15:30:46 which is randomized based on stealth 15:31:16 you give each monster a belief about where targets are and path find based on that 15:31:24 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:35 yes 15:31:40 doing some kind of fancy Bayesian search would probably make the AI too strong. 15:32:05 although I'm not sure if diffusion brings anything better than standard pathfinding for that. 15:32:05 Brogue monsters use perfect AI in that sense 15:32:25 the advantage of diffusion is cooperation right? 15:32:38 with a single monster, it's just like pathfinding 15:32:39 yes 15:33:25 so maybe use diffusion for some monster bands 15:34:22 som bands could use some improved ranged AI too (too avoid teamates and shoot you from a distance) 15:34:34 If a sufficiently smart monster wants to eat your face but there's a pack of monsters jamming up the path to you, why not take a longer path? 15:34:41 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:39:13 https://gist.github.com/bhickey/5332400 -- this is the situation I don't like 15:40:00 sure, it could also be given to individual monsters 15:41:12 maybe even all the I_HIGH ones 15:42:08 22:27:37 !messages 15:42:09 22:27:38 (1/1) HangedMan said (23m 22s ago): bands that could use flanking without necessarily getting annoyingly additionally difficult or common (mostly for distinguishing bands themselves being weak): josephine (possibly necromancers), roka, orc warlords, vault wardens, polyphemus, shedu 15:42:34 don't like it extending any further then those 15:43:05 tenofswords: running around clouds and leaving your LOS to find and kill you are different animals 15:43:29 The idea is to provide the tools necessary for getting complex behavior and then tune them for the results that we want. 15:43:33 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:51 fair enough 15:44:53 diffusion can be used to make monsters go around clouds? 15:45:14 whoa -- nasty idea: we could make some monsters fan out and patrol the map, such that they can't see each other. That way they'd be more likely to find you and start yelling 15:45:46 galehar: sure. Take a look at PlayerGrid is diffusion.cc. At the moment it has monsters pathfind around walls and other monsters. It would be trivial to make another grid that examines clouds 15:45:53 away for real 16:06:52 -!- faz_ has quit [] 16:07:16 -!- keksz has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:08:55 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:09:35 -!- dtsund is now known as dtsundere 16:12:24 -!- Sacre is now known as sacje 16:20:00 -!- NekoRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 16:20:36 -!- dcssrubot328 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:14 -!- pc__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:03 so did we decide that there's no point in using diffusion for the cyberdemon, then? 16:30:02 bwha? 16:30:22 * SamB doesn't remember any levels with only one monster in Crawl 16:31:58 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:32:02 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 16:32:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:33:32 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:36 !time 16:33:37 Time: Apr 07, 2013, 09:33:36 PM, UTC. 16:34:02 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:10 * SamB thinks somebody was a leetle trigger happy with the "remove jesters" commit 16:34:33 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:47 SamB: no one has rebuilt 16:38:31 ophanim (L25 OgJr) (Blade) 16:41:32 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:58 uhmmm... 16:46:00 A salamander comes into view. It is wielding a great sword of flaming. 16:46:52 !? 16:46:59 Napkin: sounds like someone is going to spoil your day 16:48:59 those things have thumbs? 16:49:10 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 16:49:20 -!- frobop has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:50:44 -!- madreisz_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:52:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:27 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:53:58 SamB: I had proposed renaming Lava Orcs to Salamanders for purposes of reducing silliness. 16:55:22 bh: that's the best idea I have heard on that topic! 16:55:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Salamander_%28Paracelsus%29.jpg 16:55:44 fr: make salamanders wear hats 16:56:01 Medar: that looks like a sphinx 16:56:37 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:40 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:18 well crawl already has salamanders, so that wouldn't make much sense surely 16:57:37 MarvinPA: just tweak the flavor on them. 16:57:40 ??salamander 16:57:40 salamander[1/2]: Strong fire creature. Can be rarely found in lava lakes anywhere. Generated with a flaming weapon or bow. Hits for 50 or so damage in melee. Very dangerous for people without ranged attacks. Due to its fire attack property and flaming weapon, you get burned twice. 16:57:46 (not that we need another species) 16:57:53 well they can't leave lava 16:58:12 is nemelex *meant* to be such a big fan of summoning? 16:59:06 SamB: stop sacrificing corpses? 16:59:09 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 16:59:51 I guess he's just not tuned will for the vicinity of D:1 then? 17:00:16 -!- Soundlust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:45 decks aren't exactly balanced for d:1, no 17:00:45 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:00:57 you can also summon hostile stuff that you'd have no chance of dealing with, so yeah 17:01:01 the low level card effects kind of assume you're getting them a little bit later 17:01:32 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:08 -!- Yllodra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:46 removing monster salamanders sounds good 17:09:55 they are awful, see also all other lava/water monsters 17:10:33 electric eels :( 17:11:41 replace all electric eels with lightning spires, there will be almost no gameplay different 17:11:44 nce 17:13:22 MarvinPA: salamanders are far from crucial Crawl monsters, so it'd be easy to reflavour them, making them fit with whatever the playable species is like 17:15:06 -!- st_ has quit [] 17:15:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:53 -!- Egglet has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:19:45 -!- Nakat0my has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:25 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:23 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:24:14 -!- kxtells has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:26:08 salamanders? 17:32:51 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:13 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:35:13 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 17:37:38 -!- Insomniak` has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:51 hi 17:38:26 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:18 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 17:41:23 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:31 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:33 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:30 automatic skill training switches skill trainings around while you're playing, based on what you're doing, right? 17:44:41 yes 17:44:50 rast: and it does a reasonable job at it, imo 17:44:56 >_> 17:45:10 I cannot interpret this symbol. 17:45:43 does crawl use any cyrillic characters in text mode? 17:45:46 it tends to scatter skills around 17:45:49 a LOT 17:45:55 in an unfun way 17:46:32 i'm wondering if I should enable KOI8-R 17:46:56 <|amethyst> Insomniak`: enable where? 17:46:56 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:47:53 wscons 17:48:11 <|amethyst> I wouldn't think so, no 17:48:16 <|amethyst> crawl does UTF-8 output 17:48:16 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:48:27 <|amethyst> I don't believe that is configurable 17:48:27 hmm 17:48:46 it's using code page 437 right now for font 17:48:58 and I'm getting errors in game 17:49:12 <|amethyst> errors? 17:49:33 i'll give you an example 17:50:03 trees are showing up as "?" 17:50:06 <|amethyst> oh 17:50:07 <|amethyst> yes 17:50:11 <|amethyst> you will have to use ASCII only 17:50:21 <|amethyst> wscons claims not to support UTF-8 17:50:28 -!- floatRand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:41 -!- dcssrubot953 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:42 :S 17:50:51 how do I set that? 17:51:05 <|amethyst> char_set = ascii 17:52:28 <|amethyst> (and then don't give anything above 127 to "cset", "mon_glyph", etc) 17:52:55 -!- home has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:55 -!- substitute has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:58:42 dpeg: I'm pretty sure there's a voluntary challenge based on leaving the skills on automatic the entire game and never adjusting the weights 17:59:02 I image its pretty tough for anything more complex than a TrBe 17:59:11 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:59:56 alternatively, extremely tedious because you fake-victory-dance 18:06:32 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:43 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:08:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:10:33 http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Configuring_Character_Sets 18:13:21 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:14:49 okey so how do I edit this for playing online? 18:14:50 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:15:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:15:50 you should probly be asking these questions in ##crawl rather than the dev channel 18:17:01 ##crawl moves too fast, I never get an answer 18:17:31 rast: the point is not to never use the m screen 18:17:35 ok, ill pm you 18:21:42 rast: it would be interesting to know how much performance you lose when you don't lead single skills -- it's certainly noticeable, but I believe that veterans overstress the point. A new player loses more performance is much more naive ways, I believe 18:21:53 -!- eith has left ##crawl-dev 18:23:30 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 18:24:51 -!- Duralumin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:26:48 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:30:19 -!- Ur-Quan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:49 ??rc 18:30:50 rc[1/1]: Resist cold (see {resistance}), scroll of {remove curse}, or crawl.rc (see {rcfile}), the configuration file. 18:30:56 ??rcfile 18:30:56 rcfile[1/5]: Accessible via www: CAO: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-{0.7|0.8|0.9|0.10|git|lorcs}/$name.rc CDO: http://crawl.develz.org/configs/{ancient|0.6|0.7|0.8|0.9|0.10|trunk}/$name.rc CSZO: http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-{0.10|0.11|git}/$name.rc 18:31:07 ??rcfile[2] 18:31:08 rcfile[2/5]: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt; 18:31:15 ??rcfile[3] 18:31:15 rcfile[3/5]: As of August 2012, 86.92% of cao trunk players use an unmodified rcfile 18:31:29 ??rcfile[4] 18:31:29 rcfile[4/5]: Examples: http://crawl.develz.org/configs/trunk/MarvinPA.rc / http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/elliptic.rc 18:31:36 ??rcfile[5] 18:31:39 rcfile[5/5]: CAO: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/name.rc, CDO http://crawl.develz.org/configs/trunk/name.rc, CSZO: http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/name.rc 18:34:38 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:33 dpeg: i cant really answer that. ask crate or someone good like him 18:38:26 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:11 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 18:41:36 rast: I don't frequent ##crawl anymore, but I'll try to remember to ask elliptic about it at some point 18:42:35 sleep now 18:42:37 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:42:59 -!- browncus1ard has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:40 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:29 SamB: that statistic was generated by looking at every rcfile on cszo 18:48:54 er, cao i guess :P 18:53:43 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte new patch to fix compilation in monster-trunk.git 18:53:43 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 18:54:13 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:00 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte also a branch for 0.12, currently differing only in the makefile 18:55:00 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 19:00:14 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:01:39 -!- MAR has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:17 -!- Wahaha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:19 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:01 <|amethyst> the species docs say: 19:13:02 <|amethyst> Due to their fey natures, all Elves are good at using magic in general and 19:13:03 <|amethyst> air elemental magic in particular 19:13:04 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]] 19:13:15 -!- browncus1ard is now known as blackcustard 19:13:45 -!- blackcustard is now known as Guest71621 19:13:50 <|amethyst> SE is no better at air than any other element, and DE is now worse 19:13:55 <|amethyst> (but still average) 19:14:02 -!- Guest71621 has quit [Changing host] 19:14:02 -!- Guest71621 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:29 -!- Guest71621 is now known as blackcustard 19:15:33 -!- Weeksy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:20:46 -!- dcssrubot427 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:11 -!- rebthor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:47 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-233-gd092828 (34) 19:26:38 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:49 -!- bh has quit [Changing host] 19:26:49 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:42 ??rebuild 19:31:42 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 19:34:23 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:35:54 * SamB thought we were keeping pies 19:36:31 SamB: eek? Were we? 19:36:40 <|amethyst> please no 19:36:58 okay, there was mention of the possibility 19:37:43 <|amethyst> they're way too nethacky imo (which I thought was the joke) 19:37:47 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:38:33 Next up: unicorns and unicorn horns? 19:38:47 <|amethyst> I wouldn't mind seeing (non-nethack) unicords 19:38:52 <|amethyst> s/cord/corn/ 19:38:58 <|amethyst> or maybe ki-rin 19:39:07 tricorns 19:39:10 Ki-rin, the latest addition to holypan. 19:39:16 <|amethyst> Candycorn 19:39:18 I approve of Eronarn's idea. :b 19:39:34 Hemicorns 19:39:35 <|amethyst> btw, someone go merge lorcs already 19:39:37 <|amethyst> well 19:39:40 <|amethyst> maybe not already 19:39:50 <|amethyst> but once 0.12 is released 19:40:03 !seen dpeg 19:40:03 I last saw dpeg at Sun Apr 7 23:42:37 2013 UTC (57m 26s ago) quitting with message 'Quit: leaving'. 19:40:16 too late. no one will ever play lava orc jester 19:42:12 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:43:20 that doesn't spell anything, anyways 19:43:41 i wish i could help in merging lorcs but between job and social life i have almost 0 coding time :( 19:44:13 SamB: I had proposed renaming Lava Orcs to Salamanders for purposes of reducing silliness. bh: that's the best idea I have heard on that topic! 19:44:30 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-233-gd092828 (34) 19:44:48 the whole point of lava orcs is silliness 19:44:56 there's no reason to add them if not being silly about it 19:45:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:53 Eronarn: um. That's a very bad argument 19:46:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:53 bh: a bad argument for what? 19:48:11 q: is there any reason to not use the name 'lava orc' a: no 19:48:23 SamB: the whole point of lava orcs is silliness / there's no reason to add them if not being silly about it 19:48:56 yes, but I can't tell if that's an argument for keeping then name "lava orc" or for not having them ;-P 19:48:57 Eronarn: a: They're unlikely to get merged with that name, in part because you've said the only reason you want them called that is for gimmicky combo names? 19:49:22 bh: also historical reasons, also because salamanders have no legs so they'd be another weirdslot race 19:49:57 http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/salamander-regrow-body-parts-1.jpg 19:49:59 totally has legs. 19:50:13 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:17 If we can turn Agnes into a slug, we can give a Salamander some legs. 19:50:35 ...Agnes is a slug? 19:50:40 ??agnes 19:50:41 agnes[1/3]: A unique anaconda that somehow learned to use weapons and armour. As you can see, she coiled herself up into an i shape. 19:50:46 anaconda. 19:50:49 not a spriggan 19:51:02 salamanders are a D&Dism http://s204.photobucket.com/user/prodigyduck/media/SalamanderNoble.jpg.html 19:53:00 bh: that's not what it says in mon-data.h 19:53:29 SamB: anaconda stats 19:58:25 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:37 -!- scrubnub has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:18 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:06:46 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:17 -!- SchwaWarrior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:10:19 i prefer lava orcs over salamanders because i want to be normal sized and wear boots etc 20:11:01 bh: tileschat is learning of the jester removal just now. 20:11:06 They're not happy :b 20:11:19 tileswhat? 20:11:28 the middle ages salamander monster is basically just "a newt that's on fire" too 20:11:33 -!- scummos has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:11:46 There is a group of tiles players we collectively refer to as tileschat, because they join random tiles games en masse and just chat. 20:11:54 whoa... 20:11:56 evilmike: yeah, I was surprised that salamanders could wield 20:11:57 s/join/spectate/ 20:12:00 what game are they in? 20:12:05 TheProvocateur, atm. 20:12:21 Just look for whatever tiles game has the most spectators, as a rule :b 20:12:29 (on cszo, for the record) 20:13:02 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:57 <|amethyst> bh: you removed pies? 20:14:02 <|amethyst> bh: they're still in \ 20:14:55 |amethyst: I made them not spawn 20:15:16 I didn't want to break anyone 20:15:39 <|amethyst> hm 20:15:39 (or add a tag) 20:15:54 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:49 we should make a vault with a pie mimic 20:18:24 Clearly add pies to, what was it, lightli_orcish_oven? 20:18:26 <_< 20:19:24 tileschat is a bizzare phenomenon oO 20:19:31 FR: Crawl should embed an Inform7 interpreter 20:19:50 *** You have died *** 20:19:54 eith: I'm mostly curious to know how many people actually play crawl 20:20:09 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:18 Inform7 has two layers of compiler 20:20:21 at least 20:21:18 one of which is Inform6 20:21:37 fr crawl embeds a twine interpreter 20:21:40 -!- CreepingCrawled has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:22:28 I would actually be cool with crawl embedding guile. 20:23:33 Though I don't think anyone else wants that. 20:23:35 * SamB mutters something about mixing scripting languages 20:23:53 (well, more to the point, runtimes) 20:25:02 we could just get a lua engine that runs in scheme 20:25:40 someone did a mixed perl/python/tcl at one point.. 20:25:59 why would anyone want to use tcl? 20:26:21 tcl was the glue 20:26:40 so they decided to expose it as long as they were using it anyway 20:27:27 so like perltk + tkinter? 20:29:04 perl/tk, at least, does not use tcl 20:29:46 oh 20:29:56 well, iirc Tkinter does 20:30:09 I think tkinter does, because perl/tk's build system is very fragile 20:30:59 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 20:31:06 evil stuff to automatically "compile" the native tk stuff that expects to interface with Tcl, into stuff that interfaces via XS 20:31:21 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:28 the Tkinter docs specifically cite it as why they went via Tcl 20:31:32 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:31:34 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 20:49:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:52 -!- dcssrubot125 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:07 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:38 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:02 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 21:03:48 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:05 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:15:44 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:39 -!- tenofswords has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:29:11 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 21:29:38 -!- a9qd0wf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 21:35:17 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:24 next year we should remove everything for April 1st 21:35:28 one race, one class 21:35:36 and every monster is sigmund. 21:36:26 -!- zero_one has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:43 you play *as* sigmund 21:37:27 mind. blown. 21:37:48 When you meet 'Sigmund' his name could be *your* name. 21:39:00 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:39:02 imo add chokowaru 21:39:23 Only if we can add Evilyvon, Vehamut, etc. 21:40:10 Grunt: don't you mean Vehamuna? 21:40:24 chokowaru tastes like chocalate, right? 21:40:24 evilmike: he's like Okawaru, but he only gifts chokos? 21:40:27 No no, Vehamut tha demon. 21:41:00 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:41:30 you start the game naked and wielding a choko. and you get bonuses based on how many chokos you have in your inventory 21:41:39 also he gifts chokos, and only chokos 21:41:46 You are being crushed by all of your chokos. 21:42:33 -!- Isasaur has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:42 "You wield the +37,+28 choko of chaos. You hit the Orb Guardian. The Orb Guardian berserks!" 21:42:59 You slice the Orb Guardian like a ripe choko!!! 21:51:28 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:58:15 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [] 21:59:48 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0a2/20130401042013]] 22:00:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:51 should a hellhound really "look easy" to an XL:14 character? 22:01:48 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:47 well how many hits did you need to kill it? 22:03:02 somehow i think that is not the point 22:03:24 @??hellhound 22:03:25 unknown monster: "hellhound" 22:03:30 hell hound (11h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Dam: 13 | 05demonic, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 147 | Sp: flame blast (3d10) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 22:03:30 %??hell hound 22:03:54 oh i read it as hellion but those are probably pretty dangerous if you're xl14 too 22:04:07 fire drake (05l) | Spd: 12 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 8 | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(24), 05fire | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 183 | Sp: flame blast (3d12) | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 22:04:07 %??fire drake 22:04:27 hellion (052) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:04:27 %??hellion 22:05:06 hmm, i thought hell hounds were quite a bit more scary han HD:5 for some reason 22:05:29 (i didn't actually kill it yet, was running around looking for a lab entrance) 22:05:59 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-233-gd092828 22:09:43 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:18:34 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:21 where are the 0.13 trunk builds ...? 22:20:08 http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ leaves them out 22:20:17 Napkin: hmm? 22:20:30 also http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/archive.html 22:20:56 they're left out on purpose since we want people to test 0.12 22:20:58 -!- dcssrubot768 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:59 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:21:23 that's not very courteous to people who want to play more jesters offline 22:21:30 whats a jester 22:21:58 <|amethyst> shouldn't they test -b and not -a ? 22:22:38 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:23:09 I don't think 0.12 counts as "trunk" anymore ... 22:26:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:14 * SamB manages to construct the URL http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/crawl_setup-0.13-a0-207-ge113bd6.exe anyway :-P 22:28:25 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:28:39 (My sister wanted to be able to try Jester at some point ...) 22:30:33 MarvinPA: it would be good if a .12 mac build could be done (kilobyte indicated that greatzebu could do occasional builds, just not the nightlies) 22:30:43 people on OSX can only test a .12 version from January 22:32:22 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:49 MarvinPA: I think those pages should list both 0.12 and 0.13, but list 0.12 first 22:38:34 nobody will suspect! 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The only relevant vaults for that purpose do place Zot entries. 23:57:19 Grunt: ok, yeah they do 23:57:45 (I think there is at least one more vault that can place a Zot entry that came into being after that patch was written.) 23:59:12 I just had a largely unrelated but still relevant thought. 23:59:52 There has been talk of squishing Crypt down to 3 levels with Tomb entrance on Crypt:$; if that happens, non-encompass Crypt endings might place a separate Tomb entry vault on the level too.