00:01:07 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-70-g45b42a8: Note suppression and sentinel's mark in the logfile 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=45b42a8afe51 00:02:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-70-g45b42a8 (34) 00:02:50 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13-a0-70-g45b42a8 (34) 00:05:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:50 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:55 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 00:07:03 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:08:45 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:08:47 -!- blysik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:14:39 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:10 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:18:43 ok i'm thinking the world might not explode too badly now if i went ahead and pushed loads of layouts into .13 00:18:56 I expect it won't explode at all 00:19:41 I myself think I am going to wait on some of the stuff I'm working on until post-tournament, though, when it can get the most playtesting feedback 00:19:50 (It's not like it's coded yet anyway) 00:20:53 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-70-g45b42a8 00:22:09 -!- Sabaki_|2 is now known as Sabaki 00:29:27 -!- faz_ has quit [] 00:31:28 When a TSO worshipper spits poison at a hostile creature, they do not receive a warning by magicpoints 00:36:09 mumra: maybe wait until after the first is over? 00:37:01 heh, i was just about to push the button :) 00:38:04 well it can wait but i've disabled any layouts i'm not happy with, and the ones that are enabled are looking great 00:38:39 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:40 the weights are also pretty low, standard layouts still come up the majority of the time 00:49:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:54 -!- home has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:00 fine, fine 00:56:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:00:04 -!- smeea has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:01:27 -!- danharaj has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 01:01:48 -!- dcssrubot239 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:06 yeah, it's not as radical as i made it sound 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-71-g8feae0c: Fix a problem with namespace collision 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8feae0c647fb 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-72-g88c3a0b: Omnigrid subdivider 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 131+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88c3a0bcf27d 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-73-gababcc8: Layered grid layout 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 54+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ababcc8f508b 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-74-ged46d1d: Properly fix namespace clash 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ed46d1d8b27a 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-75-ga6a4ffd: Cave town layout (incomplete but looking nice) 10(5 days ago, 3 files, 72+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6a4ffda5e8c 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-76-gb2b80b1: Tweaked cave city 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 13+ 13-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b2b80b1c12da 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-77-g6b1b2be: Fix radial procedural 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b1b2beef34a 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-78-g196c67a: Cocytus ice berg layout 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 42+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=196c67a718c5 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-79-gca8a1ac: Add a box procedural 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 33+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca8a1ac2278b 01:06:51 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-80-gdf65b05: Another cave layout variant 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 57+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=df65b0559b91 01:06:51 ... and 14 more commits 01:06:53 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:02 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:13 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:20 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 01:08:39 -!- mumra_ is now known as mumra 01:10:46 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 01:11:48 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:16:42 -!- Thalfon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:25 it's done 01:17:45 nobody is likely to see these til tomorrow anyway unless someone triggers an update 01:19:12 -!- Ellick has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:21:48 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:01 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-95-g6a74898: Slightly increase placement iterations in Vaults 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a74898d5891 01:23:02 mumra: Were the 'junction rooms' the cross-shaped empty ones? 01:27:40 yes 01:27:59 were you a fan? 01:28:06 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:32:35 -!- eeviac has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 01:38:19 I never thought they looked especially odd, anyway 01:39:30 i partly felt they might be making things unneccesarily harder for the generator 01:40:08 Oh, well if that is actually true then I suppose it's no big loss 01:40:23 I do feel like the increase in iterations ought to be cherry-picked for 0.12, though :P 01:40:45 yes, that was my intention 01:41:24 Yay 01:43:07 one i've finished making the new hyper version work, i need to revisit V and slightly restructure the way the levels are built, things could be done better (and stuff like the junctions could work much more as intended) 01:43:40 i've also been thinking about how to go about porting the important parts to c++ 01:44:34 It would be nice to see some actual profiling data here 01:44:42 Since often the parts you assume are the slowest aren't 01:44:54 yes 01:45:30 for you == mumra, or just the generic you? 01:45:41 or both ;-)? 01:45:47 the royal you i think ;) 01:46:07 Yes, the general you 01:46:30 it is just generally true 01:46:34 It is a well-known generalization that programmers are surprisingly poor at guessing their bottlenecks 01:46:47 I certainly do not exclude myself here :P 01:47:06 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:47:34 Fortunately this is what profilers are for! 01:47:40 (If only I knew how to get one to work here >.>) 01:48:06 to be fair, i've often been surprisingly good at guessing at things like that, like often the first place i start looking is where i find the problems ... but there's no substitute for hard data! 01:48:58 but sometimes you get the fractions wrong ;-P 01:50:39 -!- gluop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:20 well that's why i generally try to avoid committing to numbers ;) 01:51:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:52:47 Well, I don't mean that your intuition is always bad 01:53:02 But people's tend to be wrong often enough here that you can't assume you're not :P 01:53:10 -!- maarek has quit [Quit: maarek] 01:54:14 oh yeah i know 01:55:11 i'm just saying my first guess has often been right, but there are enough occasions it's been drastically wrong to teach me it's better to analyse first 01:55:25 Yeah 01:55:33 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:44 Besides, charts of numbers are fun! :P 01:56:33 hah 01:56:47 most of my new layouts _are_ charts of numbers 01:56:58 just very creatively presented 01:57:27 !tell |amethyst Character place and location doesn't seem to be displaying properly for 0.12 games in the game list (either the console or web one) 01:57:28 DracoOmega: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 01:58:13 (todo: make a layout using profiling data as the noise source ...) 01:59:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: oh, I need to restart something 01:59:24 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:59:43 murma: Haha 02:00:13 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: okay, fixed 02:00:20 -!- syraine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:29 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:30 julia fractals might be cool ... 02:00:38 Sorry to bother everyone again 02:00:40 Hehe 02:00:48 Another issue in D to do with monsters 02:01:07 You cannot give commands to attack enemies you can see that are blocked by a translucent wall 02:01:52 Ah yes, that's kind of annoying 02:01:56 * SamB wonders why you should need to be able to see the enemy in the first place 02:01:59 SamB: i was thinking about implementing some fractal layouts even before grunt made the mandelzot vault 02:02:07 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:31 i've written a mandelbrot generator before 02:02:32 I mean, even if summons cannot attack out of LoS, commanding them to do that is often sensible, since you may be about to follow after them 02:02:39 mandelzot ? 02:03:04 Some sort of tendrilled vault~ 02:03:05 what's the bot command to search git? 02:03:17 !git stupid 02:03:34 * SamB doesn't know how to work the thing 02:03:36 %git ~mandelzot 02:03:36 Could not find commit ~mandelzot (git returned 128) 02:03:44 %git :/mandelzot 02:03:47 Could not find commit :/mandelzot (git returned 128) 02:04:31 %git :/mandel 02:04:32 Could not find commit :/mandel (git returned 128) 02:05:15 <|amethyst> it's :/ 02:05:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:05:34 <|amethyst> I see no commit with Mandel in the name 02:05:41 %git :/[M|m]andel 02:05:42 Could not find commit :/[M|m]andel (git returned 128) 02:05:43 <|amethyst> s/name/commit message/ 02:05:59 Hm 02:06:13 !vault mandelzot 02:06:14 Couldn't find mandelzot in the Crawl source tree 02:06:16 I was attempting to locate it 02:06:16 %git 5b20f5883ebf3ae4e14224d9418c00432af05fc2 02:06:17 03Grunt * 0.12-a0-3122-g5b20f58: Even more vaults! 10(5 days ago, 3 files, 242+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b20f5883ebf 02:06:20 Yay 02:06:50 did anyone ever play llamatron? 02:07:00 it had an awesome mandelbrot monster 02:07:27 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:08:20 anyway, I think julia escape-time fractals are cool and stuff ;-P 02:08:23 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:10:17 what i like is how surprisingly simple the formulae are 02:11:14 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:19:08 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:40 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:53 -!- dcssrubot828 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:03 something worth considering optimisation-wise: 02:37:17 both the lua and luajit submodules are a bit out of date 02:37:25 lua 5.1 -> 5.2.2 02:37:46 luajit 2.0.0-beta4 -> 2.0.1 02:38:16 -!- afd__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:32 Debian hasn't got lua 5.2 yet, though 02:44:28 hmm, shame 02:44:35 it's in testing but not stable apparently 02:45:06 wait, it is? 02:46:46 oh, there's a stand-alone interpreter but no shared lib 02:46:51 http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/lua5.2 02:47:13 not exactly helpful for crawl :-( 02:47:56 03|amethyst 07* 0.13-a0-96-gf28b45c: Fix unknown-jewellery identification blocking (#6850) 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f28b45c4aec4 02:47:58 it's not just a stand-alone interpreter, it has the libs as well 02:48:24 <|amethyst> SamB: this one wasn't your bug, just an old one exposed by your recent changes 02:48:47 <|amethyst> SamB: if you cherry-pick the ID stuff to 0.12, remember to get that commit too 02:50:12 do you know the relationship between lua and luajit? like, are they both being used at runtime or just one of them? 02:51:20 <|amethyst> mumra: AIUI they are alternative implmentations 02:51:24 <|amethyst> you'd use one or the other 02:51:34 <|amethyst> (with the same ABI and API) 02:51:37 why does crawl have both? 02:52:12 <|amethyst> so you can pick, I guess 02:53:08 <|amethyst> the Makefile never uses both at the same time 02:53:26 |amethyst: instead of remembering, I've cherry-picked that into the branch ;-) 02:53:37 I suck at remembering 02:53:38 Is the non-jit one default, then? 02:54:02 If so, it would be interesting to see if there are Vaults performance improvements with using the other 02:54:04 <|amethyst> yes, you need make USE_LUAJIT=y to use luajit 02:54:34 -!- st_ has quit [] 02:55:05 according to their benchmarks at least, luajit is many times faster in a lot of tests: http://luajit.org/performance_x86.html 02:55:24 I would assume so 02:55:32 I mean, that's the point of jit in the first place 02:56:01 so maybe !tell kilobyte can we please enable luajit by default when it's available? 02:56:17 Well, I don't know if there are possibly any other compatibility problems with it 02:56:28 But it might be worth running mapstats with it just to see how it works out there 02:56:51 i was just going to try mapstat but i'm getting a make error 02:57:05 I thought maybe kilobyte would say "no, because [...]" 02:57:23 there could well be a reason 02:57:39 but, it does seem to me that the lua engine is extremely slow right now 02:58:04 03|amethyst 07[randart-jewellery-id] * 0.12-a0-3193-g0d480aa: Fix unknown-jewellery identification blocking (#6850) 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d480aada19b 02:58:06 or maybe he would say "sure!" and do it 02:59:30 if luajit is going to be several times faster then there isn't even a performance problem to solve anymore 02:59:54 Would be nice if it were that simple 03:00:25 wouldn't it? ;) 03:00:40 Those are some very impressive benchmark ratios, now that I look 03:00:51 But so variable that it's hard to generalize 03:00:55 yeah, on certain tests especially 03:01:30 Possibly there will be much less here if the code is calling C++ methods all the time (which I think several parts of the map analysis do?) 03:01:43 -!- gluup_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:05 obviously JIT will not be able to help much with our C++ code, yeah 03:02:24 or optimizing the calling conventions thereof 03:02:41 this is something else, i don't know what the overhead is when passing between lua and c++ (but one would assume they've designed things to be very optimal for that because it's pretty much the point of lua) 03:03:03 Well, it's still slow in relative terms, compared to native calls 03:03:16 Certainly not a giant overhead layer like some scripting languages though 03:03:20 yep 03:03:30 Or JNI 03:04:10 maybe it would be faster if i build a table of all the grid updates and pass that in one go, rather than calling mapgrid[x][y] = foo for each cell 03:04:50 I suspect it would 03:04:56 i'm not sure 03:05:16 Really, if you are just painting a vault down from its vault map definition, couldn't that just be done in pure C++ easily enough? 03:05:17 it depends how slow the lua table.insert operation is 03:05:32 DracoOmega: for vault maps that's how it's done 03:05:46 Oh, so the Vaults rooms already do this? 03:06:05 but e.g. for some of the new procedural noise layouts (like gehenna) i have to iterate over every grid cell to decide what feature is going there 03:06:24 i set mapgrid[x][y] = blah, then finally c++ actually writes that to the grid 03:06:25 Oh, sure. I was thinking more about V, since this is the stuff that I have seen more of here, and I believe many of those other layouts were much faster anyway 03:06:32 Right? 03:07:31 in V i'm writing to dgn.grid instead, the vault maps are drawn use dgn.reuse_map which is a c++ call - but some other stuff is done in lua, e.g. the code rooms like floor vault and junction vault, and also the walls and doors, and also the initial floor plan - none of which are vault maps 03:08:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:08:23 yeah the new layouts were pretty fast, but the zone analysis thing i did to fill in disconnected regions makes them slow. it only multiplies the time they take by 2 or 3 times, which starts getting noticable 03:08:42 do you really think that writing to dgn.grid is a bottleneck? 03:08:46 no 03:08:58 so quit worrying about it? 03:09:00 because in these layouts that's only happening once at the end 03:09:11 i'm not worrying about it ;) 03:09:22 well what are you worrying about then ;-P 03:09:39 i'm worrying about the fact that simply iterating over a 69x79 rectangle seems to be much slower than it should be 03:09:58 mumra: Well, I assume zone analysis uses floodfill? And that can be relatively slow no matter what, I think 03:10:06 SamB: no, I don't know anything about luajit 03:10:07 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:10:55 DracoOmega: yeah it's a floodfill, but it still only seems to take about twice as long as simply looping over the grid 03:11:01 * SamB needs to get some sleep ... 03:11:14 (these are very rough impressions i got from seeing the mapstat times with and without the floodfill) 03:11:31 see yas! 03:11:34 See ya 03:11:39 night! 03:12:01 Could querying the map grip be an unexpectedly slow operation from lua, maybe? Like, I don't know the overhead if it is checking out-of-lua variables 03:12:07 map grid* 03:12:14 DracoOmega: the results i was seeing were like 100ms to render the layout. 300ms to render the layout, perform the flood fill, and fill in the disconnected regions. 03:12:53 -!- gluup_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:05 DracoOmega: it packages it up as light userdata which i don't really understand but i get the impression it's _supposed_ to be fast at least ;) 03:13:41 Well, I'm sure it is FAIRLY fast. But when you are iterating a whole map, a large number of relatively-fast accesses could end up a little slower than you expect by the end 03:13:42 Maybe 03:14:14 MarvinPA: your change to autoexplore on sacrificables makes it silently ignore them one you, even accidentally, stepped on them 03:15:54 DracoOmega: what are you going to do to the result of the flood? Just changing some regions to a value is a prime candidate for a C function 03:16:44 kilobyte: What? 03:16:57 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 03:17:48 kilobyte: it's me doing this 03:18:17 03elliptic 07* 0.13-a0-97-g132801a: Revert "Reduce everyone's Stealth and Short Blades aptitudes by 1." 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 64+ 64-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=132801a1cb4b 03:18:19 sorry, still the crack of dawn 03:18:50 loud family 03:19:48 heh :) 03:19:58 kilobyte: did you see the benchmarks of lua vs luajit? 03:19:59 * kilobyte ponders the point of gathering people in one place, making them sit at a table for hours, then waking them up in wee hours of twilight. 03:20:05 mumra: no 03:20:08 http://luajit.org/performance_x86.html 03:21:17 of course moving lua to c++ where appropriate is still a good idea, but if we can get a significant performance boost from changing lua engine too ... 03:21:23 i'm also thinking about start-up times 03:22:19 since literally every single vault gets executed for validation every time crawl starts 03:23:01 does this page has performance_arm, performance_s390x, performance_mipsel, and the like? 03:23:25 on the left-hand menu there's an ARM page 03:23:32 http://luajit.org/performance_arm.html 03:23:41 http://luajit.org/performance_mips.html 03:24:00 ah sorry, mistouched 03:24:53 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:00 * kilobyte will try to think in the morning. 03:25:09 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:08 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:26:31 kilobyte: Not that I'm expecting you to have any bright thoughts now, but did you look at that tornado bug map that I sent? 03:28:30 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:39 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 03:42:05 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:31 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:58:13 -!- animegrampa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:57 -!- dcssrubot85 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:02 -!- syraine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:07:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:39 -!- neunon has quit [Excess Flood] 04:08:22 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:35 -!- bmfx_ is now known as bmfx 04:14:14 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 04:25:34 -!- Villadelfia_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:31 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:35 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:29:09 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:33:29 -!- animegrampa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:14 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:42:50 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:55:42 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:02:08 geez 05:02:48 you guys forgot to tell me that you branched crawl 05:02:56 again 05:03:00 Well, it only happened earlier today 05:04:18 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04:59 so now cdo is on 0.13 05:12:29 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:19:50 at least a day ahead i need to be told to disable the auto-build 05:20:37 Hmmm... I don't know who might have known that (I didn't handle any of the branching) 05:21:09 Like, the date had been mentioned a number of times up to now, but that doesn't mean it reached your notice, of course 05:21:21 now i need to kill all 0.13 games, make dgl unaccessible, install 0.12 and manually move the save-games there 05:21:36 Eww 05:21:45 Well, also jester is only playable on 0.13, I think 05:22:10 handle the versions.db 05:22:15 oh 05:23:15 so, it would not be cool to do it now 05:23:25 Probably not, no 05:23:35 did you raise the savegame tag? 05:23:42 I am not sure exactly how long it was intended to be installed 05:23:44 And also I have no idea 05:24:11 Grunt did the branching/tagging, I think? 05:25:19 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-97-g132801a (34) 05:25:46 well, easter walk then.. will deal with crawl later 05:25:57 jester should be in today 05:26:34 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Was eaten by a grue.] 05:28:43 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 05:30:56 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:06 -!- dcssrubot203 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:47 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:17 -!- Dalvant has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 05:53:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:58 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:56:07 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:08 -!- halv has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:11 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:21 -!- InuRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:44 -!- antlions has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:41 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:25:28 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:28 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:29:17 -!- flowsnake_ is now known as flowsnake 06:33:33 -!- InuInuRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38:53 -!- DejikoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:18 -!- rkd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:31 LRD auto-targeting doesn't consider walls at the edge of the map by Medar 06:46:08 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 06:55:36 03edlothiol 07* 0.13-a0-98-g89af019: Remove a debugging message in Webtiles (|amethyst). 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89af01996aa3 06:56:14 -!- Adder_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:02:12 -!- dcssrubot284 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:43 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:30 -!- Zermako has quit [] 07:12:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:49 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:19:08 -!- herself has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:26:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:29:09 -!- InuRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:43 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:19 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53:47 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:46 -!- dcssrubot605 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:46 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:36 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:42 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:21 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:49 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:17 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59:35 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:01:56 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-99-g8adcafa: Allow LRD targetting to default to map edge (#6852). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8adcafa11953 09:01:57 03galehar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-2-g12fc88d: Allow LRD targetting to default to map edge (#6852). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=12fc88de8eea 09:07:38 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:28 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:33 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:31:05 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 09:31:33 so, any feedback on removing str armour requirement and making using (k*EVP^2)/str as base EVP? 09:31:58 -!- dcssrubot330 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:12 see https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:mutation:stats#str 09:36:08 you mentioned that telling the player about needing more strength would be harder with this formula 09:39:02 suggestion: if aevp >= 2*evp, tell the player they really shouldnt use that, if ev <= aevp < 2*evp, tell them more strength would be nice, if aevp < evp, tell them their high strength lets them use the armour easily 09:39:51 also, the aevp >= 2*evp message should be warning colored 09:40:58 ??aevp 09:40:59 aevp[1/2]: Adjusted body armour evasion penalty. Affects spell success, melee accuracy. Its value is [base_penalty + max(0, 3*base_penalty - str)] * [45 - armour_skill]/45. 09:41:07 ??evp 09:41:07 evp[1/1]: Body armour evasion penalty. Usually (but not always) modified by your armour skill to become {aevp}. 09:41:30 i meant aevp without the armour skill part 09:41:32 -!- Wehk_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:11 * SamB just doesn't know what all that stuff is 09:42:25 wearing armor makes fighting and casting harder 09:42:33 I do know that 09:42:36 if your strenght is low, its more harder 09:42:44 and that 09:42:46 this is what this is about 09:43:02 just read the wiki link, and possibly the tavern link on the wiki if you feel masochistic 09:43:08 its a good thread though 09:43:12 yes, I just don't know much about how the numbers work 09:43:20 look at the pretty pictures then :) 09:43:24 -!- Wehk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:32 -!- floatboth has quit [Quit: floatboth] 09:43:44 * SamB doesn't see links 09:43:50 on the wiki 09:45:31 the relevant part starts at "Personally, I'd like to see" i think 09:49:32 oh, now I see galehar's link 09:54:19 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:57 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:03:34 -!- eith has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:04:22 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:56 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:28 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:10:21 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:33 -!- Egglet|2 is now known as Egglet 10:21:50 SamB: strength requirement introduce a hardbreakpoint which are considered bad 10:22:17 alefury: thanks for the warning suggestions, something like that could work 10:22:41 but I'd like feedback of the balance experts about the formula before worrying about messages and stuff 10:22:51 Speaking of hard breakpoints, this would be a good time to continue investigation into weapon delay. 10:26:26 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:26:53 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:23 galehar: the formula with 3.5x looks more or less reasonable to me 10:30:14 one thing to keep in mind that isn't visible on the charts is that it is a pretty large buff to ring mail spellcasting 10:30:40 because at 14 strength, you have the same penalty that leather armour does currently (i.e. almost nothing) 10:30:48 I think this is probably okay though 10:31:44 the other thing is that weird things will happen to players who have their strength drained to very low values 10:32:04 -!- aleksiL has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:32 like, a player in leather armour will find their spell success rates drop a lot if strength gets drained to 1 10:32:52 possibly should cap strength at 2 10:32:58 Attempting to throw items with no enemies on screen causes crash by BlackSheep 10:33:06 <|amethyst> I think the ring mail thing is fine---didn't we want to increase the usefulness of Str for spellcasters? 10:33:15 I kind of fail what's the point in such drastic effects 10:34:20 |amethyst: right 10:34:37 elliptic: ok, thanks for the feedback 10:35:10 Grunt: yes, will try to update the branch with more balanced formula and better weapon differenciation 10:35:31 kilobyte: what drastic effect? 10:36:33 galehar: diving by raw strength, rather than by str+C where C is a constant, like everywhere else in Crawl 10:36:55 I guess dividing by str+C would probably be a bit better than capping strength at 2 or 3, yeah 10:36:57 that would avoid wild outliers upon draining 10:38:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:38:50 good idea 10:42:23 -!- Mrmini231 has quit [Client Quit] 10:43:51 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44:58 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:51:41 (4*EVP^2)/(str+3) seems to work 10:51:43 http://tinyurl.com/caaqvty 10:51:50 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 10:52:23 most other uses have C of 11 or 27. There's one with 72, too. 10:52:39 possibly, GDA could be buffed to EVP 8 (does it need buff? I've heard so) 10:53:03 it's useless unless you prepare your character for one from the very start 10:53:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:19 and even if you put every single stat increase into STR, you need to be of one of strongest races or wear additional +STR gear 10:54:51 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:17 you don't actually need str 27 to use GDA 10:56:40 however I do think GDA is a little on the weak side 10:57:03 constant higher than 3 don't work well. Anything higher than 4 makes the curve too flat. 11 is way too high 10:58:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-100-gf0c19ad: Don't mark amulets of faith as useless for worshipful demigods. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0c19ade884a 10:58:19 -!- Egglet|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:58:40 galehar: I'll note that (4*EVP^2)/(str+3) is a strict buff to -3 EVP dragon armour 10:58:46 I see you insist on giving more weight to stats, rather than less 10:58:48 which is already a very popular armour to use 11:00:02 unlike skills, stats pigeonhole characters into particular roles. 11:00:53 elliott: good point 11:01:21 kilobyte: are you saying we shouldn't try to buff the effect of str? 11:01:33 s/elliot/elliptic/ 11:01:41 galehar: yes 11:01:56 worshipful... demigods? i leave for a few months, and... 11:01:56 Eronarn: You have 65 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:01:57 galehar: I would even look into removing stats outright 11:02:04 -!- dcssrubot589 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:20 Eronarn: a bug introduced by bh, already fixed 11:02:27 Eronarn: s/fixed/ruined/ :p 11:02:35 kilobyte: not sure what the problem is with an 8 strength character and an 18 strength character playing differently 11:02:38 = GOD_XOM 11:02:52 Eronarn: a bunch of people stashed some; too bad mine died to Grinder chain-paralysis 11:02:53 removing stats just makes it even harder to distinguish between different species 11:03:27 how about a deal though - we remove stats but add squarelos :P 11:03:36 sounds good to me 11:03:37 ... 11:03:51 stats are merely a pain in the ass, squarelos would ruin the game outright 11:04:05 (it was worth a try) 11:04:07 squarelos seemed pretty popular when it was running on the server 11:04:59 elliptic: my concern is: if you get an early GDA as a spriggan, you could have fun before. With the stat requirement, you have no hope of ever using it to any decent degree. 11:05:36 kilobyte: you can actually still have fun 11:05:42 it's just a lot weaker :P 11:06:16 also chei, jiyva, even nemelex shuffle give more or less reliable ways of improving strength for such things 11:06:38 but really, wandering around with EV -10 or whatever is fun IMO 11:06:41 at least until you die 11:06:49 which doesn't last long 11:07:03 you also get inaccuracy from hell 11:07:18 kilobyte: you can get around the inaccuracy penalty by picking up a sling! 11:08:58 well, both Cryptic and me plan to nuke the current ranged code, except ENOTIME 11:10:36 -!- antlions has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:47 afternoon 11:18:03 i've been trying out the USE_LUAJIT=y compile option 11:18:30 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:22 but on windows there's an error in make. on debian it compiles but mapstat fails to run ! 11:19:35 -!- shmup_ is now known as shmup 11:19:38 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:54 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 11:20:18 in fact i think there's a just a problem with make on debian as well 11:21:21 it gets to LINK crawl, it doesn't report an error, but then "crawl: command not found" 11:21:43 does it work if you take non-lobotomized makefile? 11:22:00 where is it? 11:22:17 we can haz non-lobotomized makefiles? 11:22:49 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:32 03galehar 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-3-g00d5558: Don't crash when firing close to the map edge (#6853). 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=00d5558a83c1 11:28:39 * kilobyte tries building with system luajit. 11:29:04 mumra: there's something in the contrib dir on alternate git branches, but I'm not sure if that's enough 11:29:20 Must use luaL_newstate() for 64 bit target 11:29:20 Unable to create Lua state. 11:30:15 a wee bit of a problem here: I don't have the slightest clua about lua 11:30:17 er, clue 11:30:26 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 11:30:28 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:30:31 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:30:32 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:30:41 !lm ldf type=crash -log 11:30:43 3. ldf, XL17 KoPr, T:51074 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ldf/crash-ldf-20130323-102055.txt 11:30:49 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:16 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:31:18 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:31:40 ldf is on an ancient version of trunk 11:32:10 heh, for the value of "ancient" of March 23 :p 11:32:33 still 327 commits ago 11:33:41 mon-pick happened since or around then right? 11:33:58 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:34:06 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:34:15 kilobyte: why do you not like stats? 11:34:32 isnt different characters playing differently a good thing? 11:34:59 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:35:35 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:35:42 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:35:49 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:35:59 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:36:38 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:37:24 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-100-gf0c19ad (34) 11:38:14 ldf (L18 SEHu) (Vaults:2) 11:40:29 btw, ontoclasm suggested fusing rMut, rCorr and Cons into a single amulet, but give it a swapping penalty (like faith, guardian spirit) or delayed effect (like gourmand). opinions? 11:41:06 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 11:42:13 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:46:29 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:32 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:46:36 !lm ldf type=crash -log 11:46:37 16. ldf, XL18 SEHu, T:54360 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ldf/crash-ldf-20130401-163816.txt 11:47:52 you could give clarity a swapping penalty; and ignoring artifact amulets that would do the same thing because there would be noting to swap rmut/rcorr/cons with 11:47:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:04 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:16 alefury: why buff the best amulet (conservation)? 11:48:51 (i'm not really suggesting that, just stating a possibility) 11:50:39 amulet swapping is annoying, and the effect of conservation could be toned down a bit if its too powerful 11:51:11 also, not being able to protect yourself from some effects instantly on demand by carrying around 3 amulets might make these threats more interesting 11:52:41 can anyone rebuild cdo? 11:53:53 03galehar 07* 0.13-a0-101-g14c441c: Don't crash when firing close to the map edge (#6853). 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=14c441c6f1ea 11:54:07 mumra: yes 11:54:28 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-101-g14c441c (34) 11:55:15 galehar: apparently it happens automatically, i didn't realise 11:57:24 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58:59 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-102-gb483c1e: Fix Lua namespace 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b483c1e4dcb8 12:00:16 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-102-gb483c1e (34) 12:03:48 -!- meowfelid has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:04:42 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11.2-11-g28dacbe 12:07:24 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:36 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:09:08 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:07 I can't play trunk - http://pastebin.com/GQDwmGNe 12:14:12 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-103-ge69f445: Remove local from function def 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e69f4453e187 12:14:16 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:32 broken trunk? niiice 8| 12:15:33 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:23 Eronarn: shh, nobody will notice ;) 12:17:33 for some reason it's only broken for 1 person 12:17:50 ok 2 people 12:18:09 gnsh: were you on cdo? 12:18:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-102-gb483c1e (34) 12:19:18 Creatures and myself aren't what they are supposed to be by TheDoctor 12:19:31 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:34 good bug title 12:21:39 good report too 12:21:41 Could be related to: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6297 12:21:47 Or not, don't really know what he's saying 12:21:57 just some image caching thing in webtiles I think? 12:22:09 Yeah 12:22:56 the only real way to fix stuff like that is name the image something different every time it rebuilds 12:25:05 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:26:08 image.png?timestamp_of_last_rebuild 12:26:17 -!- SexyAcids has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:17 -!- Lucas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:23 It already does that for a lot of things 12:26:38 Not sure what the problem jumping between versions is exactly 12:27:05 seriously though who wants to fix cdo :( 12:27:07 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:38 cdo should be fixed but it seems like it hasn't update 12:29:59 it does that already, the problem is javascript not getting reloaded when you restart the game without reloading the page, I think 12:30:43 oh right 12:30:48 cdo DIDN'T update 12:30:51 just cao 12:31:10 galehar: can you prod cdo with a stick or anything? 12:31:14 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:31 -!- QQQ is now known as gluop 12:31:59 -!- Elkan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:32:10 -!- dcssrubot410 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:14 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 12:36:43 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:44 cdo is at b483c1e. what's wrong? 12:37:00 just as announced 12:37:08 it needs ge69f445 12:37:11 which came after 12:37:23 cao also hasn't actually updted since b483 12:37:26 well, it has no time machine 12:37:50 19:00 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-102-gb483c1e (34) 12:37:52 ge69f445 was pushed 20 minutes ago 12:37:57 19:14 < Cheibriados> mumra * 0.13-a0-103-ge69f445: Remove local from function def (8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 12:38:14 yeah, it hasn't updated since then 12:38:31 cao updated but to the old commit 12:39:05 it says there's a rebuild in progress, which might indeed be the case 12:39:15 hmm 12:41:40 there's update.sh but no compilers running 12:42:18 Napkin: did you start a rebuild without arguments? If so, it's stuck at a prompt. 12:42:30 -!- elliptic has left ##crawl-dev 12:42:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:48 sorry mumra: yeah on CDO 12:43:14 gnsh: the problem should be fixed but cdo / cao aren't updating for some reason 12:43:23 alright thank you 12:43:33 but the blame lies entirely with me :( 12:43:40 dont worry <3 12:43:51 i rushed out a fix for another problem and created an even bigger one 12:46:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:41 no, i didn't, kilobyte 12:50:45 but i killed the update.sh 12:51:08 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.13-a0-103-ge69f445 (34) 12:51:26 yay 12:51:36 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:43 cool, thanks! 12:52:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:56:44 Now, why would i be getting: 12:56:45 Cannot find file "autopickup_exceptions.txt". (~/.crawlrc:103) 12:56:56 and a bunch of similar messages when i start a cdo game? 12:57:19 did someone screw up the -D flags or something? 12:57:41 because I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be reading ~/.crawlrc 12:57:48 something isn't right 12:58:05 I'm actually kind of surprised that there *is* a ~/.crawlrc 12:58:15 there are lua errors as well (nothing to do with me this time) 12:58:51 Lua error: Can't find "lua/stash.lua"; Lua error: Can't find "lua/wield.lua" 12:58:51 etc. etc. 12:59:19 I'm thinking it built without DGAMELAUNCH support 12:59:53 * SamB tries starting one 13:00:12 hmm, I guess that's not quite it 13:00:13 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:18 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:14 hmm, why does it say "For a list of changes, see changelog.txt in the docs/ directory." -- that doesn't work too well online ... 13:01:18 something is massively wrong with V level generation on CDO as well 13:01:48 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:02:31 -!- SexyAcids_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:02:53 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:03:05 SamB: until recently it did show the changelog 13:03:17 SamB: I mean, the file rather than a pointer to it 13:03:28 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:32 I know it used to, yeah 13:04:37 -!- Cerepol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:00 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:28 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:39 maybe it has something to do with the version change? 13:09:56 oh, could be ... 13:18:19 -!- InuRex is now known as NekoRex 13:19:58 kilobyte: sorry, I started a build and forgot there's another prompt at the end 13:22:40 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:27 cdo is listing 11.2, trunk 13:23:31 but no .12 13:24:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.13-a0-103-ge69f445 (34) 13:25:06 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-104-gf0b331f: Reduce loot in a bailey 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0b331f1eaa4 13:28:25 -!- netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:29:01 -!- NeremWorld has quit [] 13:29:39 can someone help me out with this problem i have? ive just started, going pretty good, but i dont know what the best way to identify all this stuff 13:29:41 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:30:00 should i put the rings on first or read some scrolls? 13:30:07 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:20 Naruni: I think you wanted to ask in ##crawl, not here 13:30:21 try ##crawl 13:30:22 that's more a question for ##crawl, not ##craw-dev, no? 13:30:27 whoops sorry 13:32:06 -!- pythonsnake is now known as incognito 13:33:32 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:33:32 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:36:42 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:37:38 -!- incognito is now known as pythonsnake 13:42:35 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 13:46:53 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:02 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:38 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:14 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:02:19 -!- dcssrubot657 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:36 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:32 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:20 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:17:30 -!- Ero has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:21 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:23 -!- Eronarn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:43 -!- Ero is now known as Eronarn 14:36:16 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:07 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:57 -!- ZipZipskins has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:47 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:14 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 14:45:13 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:46:28 -!- xnavy has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 14:46:28 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 14:47:38 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:03 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:35 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:23 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:29 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:01:00 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:48 -!- clinew has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:03:48 -!- Nareusm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:52 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:17 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:20 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:10 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:13:16 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:14:40 -!- scummos^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:53 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:40 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:17:46 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:18:08 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:22:49 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:24:34 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:21 What is the official status of 0.12? 15:29:45 * SamB wonders why the game doesn't bother to tell you directly when you've killed, say, Sigmund, but does log it in ?: ... 15:30:15 SamB: you mean off-screen kill or invis kill? 15:30:24 -!- Elkan has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:30:26 well, invis in this case 15:30:34 That's just an artefact of how the gears work... nothing deeper, I'd say. 15:30:46 -!- johnthebear has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:50 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:25 -!- dcssrubot595 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:28 dpeg: 0.12 is in beta (pre-release) 15:34:26 the version numbers don't make this clear? 15:34:35 thanks 15:35:06 Is there an expected release date? (Sorry for out-of-loopness.) 15:36:04 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 15:36:48 -!- SexyAcids has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:04 -!- aleksiL has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:12 What the heck, I'll just go ahead. 15:39:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:57 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:17 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41:28 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:43:44 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:45:18 dpeg: go ahead and what? 15:45:26 SamB: check your mailbox! 15:46:01 * SamB frowns about how that eats all his RAM :-( 15:46:23 no pictures, promised! 15:46:54 Ensorcelled Hibernation targeter thinks Crimson Imp is an invalid target by BlackSheep 15:47:57 dpeg: I have a patch that implements your proposal (which is the same as elliptic's was) there, fwiw (and have for months) 15:48:00 people have gone overboard with web 2.0 ... 15:49:42 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:52:44 SamB: :) 15:52:49 elliott: which proposal? 15:52:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:02 dpeg: what, removing cTele?!? Are you crazy? 15:53:08 dpeg: the ctele one 15:53:11 -!- dpeg is now known as crazypeg 15:53:26 by which I mean, "I don't think gmail used to need this much RAM" 15:53:45 SamB: try connecting to gmail with lynx 15:53:57 elliott: is the patch on mantis? 15:54:24 elliott: thanks for patch, but this needs thorough devteam discussion first, I think 15:54:51 no, it's not updated for current trunk... MarvinPA had tested it a bit though IIRC, and I could probably have it updated for trunk in a day or two if it's wanted whenever 15:54:55 crazypeg: yeah, just letting you know 15:54:59 you should put it on mantis so that it can be implemented easily once we all agree it's a good idea though! 15:55:02 -!- cocofalco has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:27 wait, you guys agree on things? 15:56:38 you think we decide what to ruin next all by our selves, every time? 15:57:23 elliott: yes, what MarvinPA says... you could also reply to c-r-d 15:58:47 elliott: I'm not saying we'll have unanimity, but I think the proposal is going to meet a strong support 15:59:02 i like ctele :( 15:59:33 alefury: Ewiggestriger! 15:59:37 alefury: why? for scBlink or for controlled teleport? 15:59:42 both 15:59:54 but you like it as a player or as a game designer? 15:59:58 alefury: like as player or like as design? 16:00:01 as a player :) 16:00:07 dismissed 16:00:25 it feels good to find and use 16:00:26 oh yeah, we're aware players like it. It's damn good. That's why we're removing it of course :) 16:00:49 alefury: have you ever tried passage of golubria? 16:01:00 no, i havent played much in a while 16:02:41 passage of golubria is really fun IMO 16:02:49 I wish I used it more 16:03:03 well, design wise i like how ctele acts as an upgrade to existing stuff (which is plentiful or cheap enough for the upgrade to matter) 16:04:11 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 16:04:30 there are some good reasons for removing it, but id prefer a nerf 16:05:13 alefury: youc an still reply on c-r-d 16:05:25 -!- crazypeg is now known as dpeg 16:05:26 one thing that was suggested was to make it one-shot, ctele would only let you control a single teleport or blink, combined with making controlled teleports more fuzzy 16:06:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:22 alefury: does not address the inelegant complaints, though, and may at worst make the spell harder to use by harmful interface 16:06:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:19 usually when I use cTele it is one-shot already... 16:09:13 elliptic: it'd might make scBlink more cumbersome 16:09:28 scblink isn't the problem though 16:10:09 at least as I see things 16:10:33 the problem is that if cTele is active when that teleport finally goes off, that's it 16:10:54 dpeg: it's too late to nerf cTele in 0.12 16:11:13 -!- dcssrubot658 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:23 or whatever 16:11:48 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:03 i assumed the mail meant it'd be something to aim for in 0.13 16:14:45 by "0.12 around the corner" I definitely mean that this is a 0.13 target 16:16:44 * SamB really doesn't think crawl is too easy ... 16:17:51 one potential nerf that also somewhat adresses the bad interface of controlled teleports: use scblink targeting (direction only) for controlled teleports 16:18:22 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:32 only a slight improvement i guess, and being unable to view the level map while targeting might be even worse than having to view the level map to target 16:18:45 SamB: that is not so much my concern... if a mechanic is too dominant, it should be addressed. I always compare this with the old Tomb reports. Back in the day, for any caster, a game had two phases: before Tomb and after Tomb. Not good! 16:21:14 also you have to keep in mind that many chars never find cTele... especially if you aren't/can't cast spells, since the ring is pretty rare 16:21:39 so the game already should be balanced so that not having cTele is fine 16:21:54 good point 16:21:56 thats a fallacious argument 16:22:19 although I found that my casters generally seem to end up with the spell 16:22:28 dpeg: right, it is a reasonably common spell 16:22:56 but for non-casters, it is a rare item that suddenly makes your teleports all super-lucky and boring 16:23:02 yes 16:23:14 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:19 so, nerf it a bit? 16:23:27 there are lots of things many chars never find, but everyone finds some things, and the sum of that stuff should usually be enough to win. 16:23:41 SamB: has been discussed, and is supported by some. I believe that removal is cleaner and better. 16:23:51 so that not everyone finds certain powerful items does not mean that they should not be considered 16:23:53 alefury: most things have lots of substitutes, there's nothing else like cTele 16:24:01 I mean make it more "interesting" 16:24:06 alefury: the "dominating" bit 16:24:09 unless there is an RNG manipulation item I don't know about 16:24:35 SamB: come up with something! I didn't see something that caught my eye 16:24:38 it isn't really a matter of dominating, it's just that teleporting is a fundamental part of the game, and not knowing where it will take you is also a fundamental thing 16:24:41 its a very powerful escape tool, and theres a bunch of those 16:24:46 we even let teleports take you back to the square you start on 16:25:58 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:26:02 btw, I think that this is one of the cases where the harm comes from th permanence: a one-off use item giving cTele wouldn't be a problem at all, but currently, all sources of cTele are like a rule change 16:26:12 (and no, I don't suggest such an item right now) 16:26:32 ?controlled teleport 16:26:48 -!- NekoRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:05 anyway, if you end up removing ctele you should take care to handle the pr part a bit better than with the md removal 16:27:23 probably there will be a little less incessant whining, but im sure there will be a lot 16:27:29 well half of tavern and ##crawl seem to think it's already been removed already 16:27:37 there's whining over a lot of stuff 16:27:39 the power of rumours 16:27:51 i don't think anyone here really cares about people whining, yes 16:27:57 if we worried about good PR, we'd never get anything done 16:28:17 im not saying you should care 16:28:19 what if I get one of my sisters to do it, they can be pretty annoying 16:28:19 precognitive whining 16:28:35 alefury: that's what "you should take care" sounded like 16:28:36 to me 16:28:44 alefury: I see the MD event as a catarthic experience that improved our player base along the way! 16:29:16 i said you should take care about the PR part 16:29:30 alefury: that is simply done: I won't announce it! 16:29:31 like, maybe put 5 minutes of thought into it 16:29:52 i don't really see why ctele removal needs to be announced at all, any more than stalker removal was (i.e. in the changelog) 16:29:52 "Listen up your suckers, you screwheads: cTele is no more!" 16:29:54 maybe explain the reasons in the changelog and the release post 16:29:55 pretty sure dpeg put more than 5 minutes of thought into that MD post 16:30:03 alefury: dcss devs are not known for trying to be popular. they are trying are no to be but they still are! players are crazy ;-) 16:30:38 elliptic: i'm not sure alefury had "how can I make it sound even more sadistic" in mind 16:30:48 commit messages tend to contain reasons for commits, yes 16:30:52 Somethingawful has funny whining recently (it got much, much better over the years) 16:31:22 i certainly wouldn't expect anyone to waste time on anything more than a commit message explanation though 16:31:24 -!- Killerpretzel has quit [] 16:31:47 how about copying and pasting the explanation into a more visible place? 16:32:00 bhaak: apart from the title, I didn't have any sadistic intentions (and the title was an attempt at humour, which completely backfired -- inevitably so, given where I come from... you must understand this!) 16:32:47 MarvinPA: agreed 16:33:49 MarvinPA, elliptic: you seem to have opinions on the cTele matter. I'd certainly appreciate a quick reply on c-r-d. Still unsure what's the best medium to address something like this, but ##crawl-dev does not feel right. 16:35:00 sure 16:35:43 I think c-r-d is the only channel where we can be sure to reach all developers. 16:36:05 some people feel very strongly about the games they play, and when features they love are removed they feel betrayed and hurt. the point of games is to let people have fun, so making them feel betrayed and hurt is a bit counterproductive. good changes should be done of course, no matter what players think, but putting reasonable effort into mitigating the blow to player's feelings would be nice 16:36:08 just saying 16:36:48 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:37:13 -!- remyroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:40 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Changing host] 16:38:47 ctele is probably not as important to people as MDs were, but a lot of people really like it 16:39:07 * SamB just wants a chance to really use it ... 16:39:20 play something that casts spells 16:40:25 alefury: every time we remove a spell/background/species/etc., that will be someone's most dear feature, and they will be upset. Being a fan means both loyalty and conservatism (generally speaking) but should that stop us from improving the game? Certainly not! For one thing, we have many players who really like our approach to design, and they'd be sad if we dropped the ball without a good reason. The cTele issue is even more pressing than MD: the former i 16:40:39 "mitigating the blow to player's feelings" is pretty low on my list of priorities compared the billion other actually productive things i could be doing with my free time that would actually improve the game 16:40:50 dpeg: cut off after "the former is" 16:41:16 (Tene: thx.) The cTele issue is even more pressing than MD: the former is about balance, the latter was about (lack of) diversity. 16:41:32 dpeg: you should consider adding the splitlong.pl irssi script to avoid that: http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/splitlong.pl 16:41:51 will check! 16:41:54 dpeg: I think announcing major feature changes on c-r-d is great. A lot of discussion will happen on the channel anyway, but it's good to announce important stuff on c-r-d 16:42:59 MarvinPA: absolutely. Especially since I believe that many (perhaps most?) players actually understand where we are coming from. On the forum, it's not a rare sight to see someone (non-dev) explain to someone else the virtue of some nerf/etc., based on design principles. 16:43:19 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:45:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:12 -!- DainDwarf has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 16:53:03 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:42 what do people think about making ?tele very rare and it gives a single controlled teleport 16:55:51 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:54 rare guaranteed escapes sound a lot less interesting than more common but unreliable escapes to me 16:57:17 it would also completely wreck early game balance 16:57:18 would definitely be a much bigger change than just removing ctele 16:57:21 right 16:59:22 yeah, bad idea 17:00:26 while we're killing ideas... here's one I had recently (not the first one, to be sure): would you guys accept a really rare potion of good mutation? That's clearly a coolness gimmick, but players would like it, and I think usage is not completely obvious. 17:01:32 I think that sort of thing steps on jiyva's toes a little 17:01:48 -!- ark__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:51 jiyva *has* toes? 17:01:55 okay good point 17:02:29 but I don't particularly like having sources of guaranteed-good mutations 17:02:34 minmay suggested that on the tavern a while ago. Replacing potions of gain foo with potion of beneficial mutation 17:03:00 this gets suggested a lot, yes 17:03:15 the point was that mutations are somewhat rare because players are super careful to avoid being mutated 17:03:30 so with such a potion we could play with fun mutations a bit more 17:03:34 it's true that the potions of gain foo are quite boring 17:03:48 galehar: I don't think players are that careful... 17:03:50 so is it stupid of me to be like "ooh, purple!" and eat? 17:04:03 people go around eating purple chunks for fun or drinking mutation potions all the time, yes 17:04:15 I even think it is a good strategy sometimes 17:04:17 players seem to complain about how unavoidable mutations are more than they carefully avoid them to me :P 17:04:24 (either that or getting as many of them as they can) 17:05:04 anyway I'm not necessarily opposed to replacing the gain stat potions with something like this; I do think we shouldn't have both things in though 17:05:08 well, another way of making gain foo a little bit less boring is to give +2 17:05:15 i wouldn't be against replacing the three gain foos with potions of good mutation 17:05:20 galehar: or rescaling str/int/dex as has been suggested 17:05:32 by halving all values basically 17:05:40 or that 17:06:04 if you're serious about it, now (or soon) might be a good time 17:06:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:14 galehar: one bad thing about current gain stat potions is that it is actually sometimes a mistake to drink them, because they will make it less likely that you will be able to cure a bad mutation you get 17:06:18 0.12 is forked, it's open season for testing whacky ideas in trunk! 17:06:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:06:43 elliptic: yes, that is one reason I had in mind 17:06:53 ooh, I have a wacky idea! imagine if the field of view was a square... 17:07:00 e.g. drinking gain intelligence as a trogite is usually a bad idea 17:07:00 i think that's a good property of gain stat potions in theory, except for the fact that +1 stat on its own is just so underwhelming :P 17:07:13 also, new potion of beneficial mutation will make players completely forget about cTele removal: "Oh, what a shiny new toy!" 17:07:31 "why can't i get the ctele mutation from this???" 17:07:36 :P 17:07:48 -!- s951 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:20 gain ctele mutation potion. Except it's insanely rare. 17:08:28 and doesn't work 17:09:08 galehar: btw, xom is also a good source of good mutations that players use 17:09:17 gain ctele potion, gives you the ability to control teleports by transporting you to zotdef 17:09:25 or maybe by entering wizmode 17:09:32 arguably better than jiyva, which is a little strange 17:10:14 elliptic: so, you're not opposed to potion of beneficial mutation if they replace gain foo? 17:10:44 also, note that "beneficial" is used loosely and includes double edge mutations like horns or wild magic 17:10:54 right 17:10:59 everyone <3 wild magic 17:11:30 yeah, I mainly just don't want a situation where you have a lot of players who go and drink 3 gain stat potions and 2 of these potions 17:12:05 ok, well there won't be. The proposal is to replace gain foo 17:12:08 imo the main obstacle is that it's hard to come up with a good name for that potion 17:12:28 right, "beneficial mutation" is quite ugly 17:12:46 potion of transcendence 17:12:53 potion of become betterer 17:12:55 enhancement 17:13:04 oh, "enhancement" is quite good 17:13:08 potion of mutagenic doping 17:13:09 potion of steroids 17:13:13 I don't really like enhancement 17:13:20 what are you enhancing really 17:13:30 enlargment? 17:13:31 :) 17:13:31 elliptic: your powergaming 17:13:32 most mutations give you new stuff rather than enhancing existing properties 17:13:43 yourself 17:13:49 potion of augmentation? 17:13:56 augmentation already means something 17:14:03 potion of augmentation would confuse angband players 17:14:04 similarly for evolution (though in that case the meaning is related) 17:14:05 but that is okay 17:14:24 oh it would also be confusing because of the Ds mutation I guess 17:14:58 that was what I meant, yeah 17:15:27 evolution and augmentation both seem sort-of okay to me, i don't think the overlap would be that confusing 17:15:36 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 17:15:37 mutagenic goodness? 17:16:03 I have an issue on trunk offline tiles. Just pulled the latest commits and recompiled today, and I'm finding that all explored tiles out of LOS have a ? overlaid over them 17:16:06 potion of sanguine|promising mutation? 17:16:23 I'd like to have "mutation" in there, for compatibility with !mut and !cure mut 17:16:26 s951: try make clean 17:16:37 but I am fine with whatever you decide 17:16:57 galehar: Okay, will do. 17:17:23 potion of greater mutation 17:18:08 potion of two-headed mutation 17:19:06 -!- ryansee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:20:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:58 what the heck, coder decides :) 17:21:05 !seen kilobyte 17:21:06 I last saw kilobyte at Mon Apr 1 18:03:17 2013 UTC (4h 17m 49s ago) saying 'SamB: I mean, the file rather than a pointer to it' on ##crawl-dev. 17:21:11 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:33 greater mutation doesn't make much sense given this would give fewer mutations than a regular potion of mutation 17:21:34 potion of elliott was here 17:22:45 elliptic: i dont know what augmentation does, but scrolls of amnesia are very bad (annoying) news in nethack 17:25:32 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 17:26:11 OT: fun forum posting about pies 17:26:53 -!- netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:12 simmarine: Nethack's scroll of amnesia is a complete desaster (bhaak: do you still have that crutch in your fork) but Crawl's amnesia is much better. 17:28:21 that wasnt really my point, i know amnesia is dumb. but it shares a scroll name, i dont see why augmentation shouldve been invalidated for that reason (though the ds mutation name makes a good counter) 17:29:08 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:24 -!- nooodl__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:03 dpeg: of course not. not even the mmf cause it anymore. only the big bad end boss. 17:31:24 bhaak: progress! :) 17:31:31 -!- nooodl__ is now known as nooodl 17:31:33 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:17 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:34:20 * kilobyte wonders when bhaak will finally put Elbereth into its place. 17:36:26 I hate, hate, hate ';' blocking an useful function ("look here") with something with different modes 17:37:07 when vanilla dies and I no longer have to compete with an outdated legend 17:37:18 kilobyte: this is supposedly confidential but Patric promised me that Elbereth will be gone by 2032. 17:37:43 bhaak: it's not going to ever get more deader 17:37:57 oh, or do you mean Elbereth on the status lines? that's already in :-) 17:38:56 getting more dead _is_ possible: if the devteam would suddenly come up and announce vanilla to be EOLed, but that's something which never happens 17:39:05 * SamB wonders if bhaak said anything since "when vanilla dies ...", because he accidentally put him on ignore for a bit ... 17:39:54 that SamB guy is just awful, I bet he's ignoring me right now 17:40:05 lol 17:40:32 MarvinPA: what did you do on the tavern? Taking words out of minmay's mouth? :) 17:41:07 i'm genuinely not sure if the post is a joke or if he didn't notice the date, i have to check :P 17:41:17 -!- dcssrubot600 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:18 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 17:43:04 -!- scummos_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:08 what would you guys say for making ';' "look here" like it used to be, and making ',' pick up a partial stack if there's just one item type? 17:45:48 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:50 sounds like it'd be annoying for stacks of ammo/gold 17:46:04 (I do dislike ;'s behaviour with stacks, though) 17:46:13 there's 'g' already 17:46:19 i thought it was deliberate that , and g were left identical last time this was changed 17:46:40 I use , and g interchangeably (same with s and .); I suspect others do too (or only use one, according to preference and e.g. what roguelikes they played previously) 17:46:46 keys are at premium, especially unshifted ones. It makes little sense to have a command use two. 17:47:24 the level of annoyance depends on your god, it's pretty high with Nemelex 17:48:40 x does "look here" anyway but i guess that requires cancelling too 17:50:21 Galehar: Thanks, fixed the problem. 17:50:37 kilobyte: I wouldn't mind splitting the synonyms, but I'd expect a lot of resistance. 17:50:50 kilobyte: you're fine with cTele-- and a potion of good mutations? 17:51:01 (potion as replacement for !gainFoo 17:51:12 i agree that it's pretty weird for ; to do so many different things depending on what you're standing on 17:52:07 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:52:11 cTele-- would suck in general, although cTele probably should be taken down a peg 17:52:19 a potion of good mutations sounds good 17:52:36 yes, that's rather the point 17:52:45 kilobyte: then I'd ask you to reply to the c-r-d mail, please 17:52:55 also the rules for stacking +int/-int mutations are quite silly 17:52:57 only I thought it was just good mutation 17:55:01 MarvinPA: ok that pies post is hilarious, but i think he's being serious 17:55:32 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:55:37 also, what's so anachronistic with pies? 17:57:40 Nethack, I guess 17:57:53 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:29 If you take a feature from Nethack, that means you're borrowing from the Cromagnon, which is sort of anachronistic in and of itself. 17:58:35 seems to go back to old english, is that old enough? 17:59:11 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:27 mumra: excellent reply! 17:59:34 hehe 18:03:04 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:05:24 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:53 -!- AriaB has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:53 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-105-g1bdec8a: Allow USE_LUAJIT to work with system lua (libluajit-5.1-dev on Debian). 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 11-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1bdec8a61473 18:09:08 How do I print to the non-ingame tiles console? Do I just have to run the non-tiles version? 18:09:15 -!- Sovek has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:42 huh? 18:10:55 like, 18:11:06 -!- danharaj has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:28 I'm trying to use cprintf to print to the console I am running the crawl executable from but it is printing to the ingame console 18:12:00 -!- Linksi_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:07 if anything would work for that, it would be printf 18:13:50 I'm not seeing any output at all with printf 18:13:57 03dolorous 07* 0.13-a0-106-gdeabf03: Fix inconsistencies and duplicate code regarding hibernating monsters. 10(61 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=deabf03d7b6a 18:14:04 -!- Zaba_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:10 -!- johnstein_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:29 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:35 wait nevermind 18:14:37 there it goes 18:14:39 thanks 18:15:17 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:39 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:41 -!- Linksi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:42 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:42 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:42 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:15:46 -!- Sabaki has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:16:14 -!- ColdPie_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:28 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:16:32 -!- kilobyte_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:34 -!- Mottikins__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:46 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:50 -!- kilobyte_ is now known as kilobyte 18:16:56 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 18:17:06 -!- Sabaki_|2 is now known as Sabaki 18:17:30 I'm fine with moving partial pickup to , 18:17:39 it would still behave like g most of the time 18:17:50 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:55 it's better than on ; 18:18:11 I am not sure I have ever used ; ever, and am not even sure what it does 18:18:33 kilobyte: oh great - have you run any speed comparisons? about to do so myself 18:19:09 DracoOmega: it lists items on the place you're on, _except_ that if there's a stack with multiple items there, you'll get stuck in a prompt asking you how many to pickup 18:19:25 mumra: it's merely the build system, it doesn't actually work 18:19:42 ah ok 18:19:48 <|amethyst> but only if it's a single stack 18:19:50 So, this luajit option just plain doesn't work? 18:20:03 on i386: dat/des/portals/volcano.des:172: invalid escape sequence near '"%s*' 18:20:03 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:06 <|amethyst> 19 arrows: it asks; 19 arrows and a scroll: it doesn't, just shows 18:20:26 on amd64: Must use luaL_newstate() for 64 bit target\nUnable to create Lua state. 18:20:39 That sounds fairly broken 18:21:17 not sure if \/ means something in lua or not 18:21:24 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- gluop has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- remyroy1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- Soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:24 -!- Staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:25 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- Melum has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- johnstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- ColdPie has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:40 i'm investigating that escape sequence 18:21:48 luaL_newstate i'm not so sure about 18:21:50 ; also picks up any auto-pickuppable items from the stack you're standing on 18:22:22 unless you're in combat, that is 18:22:27 yeah 18:22:37 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:45 that's a third distinct usage of the key, but it's probably acceptable 18:23:11 <|amethyst> What are you suggesting making ; do? Just look? 18:23:17 since you'll often come to a place, kill a monster, then wonder what a pile you're standing on 18:23:19 <|amethyst> or look + autopickup 18:23:21 * SamB usese that third usage, and the "look here" usage 18:23:26 -!- InuInuRex has quit [Quit: "All the vain and ignorant will look up and shout 'Save us!', and I'll look down and whisper... 'Nyo.'"] 18:23:39 * SamB finds the other one confusing 18:23:52 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:23:53 yeah, i only ever use the look and autopickup bits (rarely) 18:23:56 <|amethyst> yeah... it's so rare that it happens, that when it does I am surprised 18:24:15 but partial pickup i think didn't exist at all in console for a while (but did in tiles), so it needed to be added somewhere 18:24:21 <|amethyst> which means, as galehar said, if you make that the difference between , and g most people won't notice 18:25:21 how about both , and g have the partial pickup behaviour, but it respects the pickup_mode thing 18:25:33 so you get a single-item menu if you have it set to multi? 18:25:55 eh? 18:26:07 <|amethyst> elliott: it would be annoying if I got a menu every time I tried to pick up a stack of arrows 18:26:21 <|amethyst> but I still want multi 18:26:29 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:39 yeah, much as i love the consistency of multi it would be sort of a pain to get a menu for single items 18:26:46 i guess i am a hypocrite after all :P 18:27:14 well the partial pickup behaviour could just be removed from tiles 18:27:18 -!- doome has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:27:25 since it's really marginal and causes these interface problems 18:27:31 <|amethyst> huh? 18:27:43 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:47 I understand ; grew its additional functionality to maintain control parity with tiles? 18:27:53 <|amethyst> well 18:27:54 well you can pick up partial stacks with the regular g menu if there's more than one type of item 18:28:03 <|amethyst> what MarvinPA said 18:28:10 it would be strange if you could only do that for stacks with multiple types of item 18:28:13 -!- dcssrubot541 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:27 and annoying if you have to pick up a full stack and then drop part of it in other cases 18:28:55 well my point is that this was impossible in console until ; got its additional functionality and probably this never bothered anyone except for the tiles inconsistency 18:28:58 -!- santiago__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:29:00 <|amethyst> unless you're suggesting turning off numerical pickup altogether, in which case this stack of large rocks would like to have a word with you 18:29:28 I wish I found big stacks of large rocks :P 18:29:32 -!- keksz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:29:44 <|amethyst> elliott: then you just have the inconsistency that you can do the partial pickup if you drop a dart on top 18:29:49 <|amethyst> elliott: it's not an improvement IMO 18:30:02 yes, I'm not claiming it's not inconsistent... ;'s behaviour right now is inconsistent too though :P 18:30:05 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:06 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:30:41 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:30:41 -!- s951 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:31:03 -!- s951 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:14 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:31:17 <|amethyst> elliott: right, that needs to be removed from ; no question 18:31:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:32:34 the solution of , and g introduces a different inconsistency too, of course 18:32:47 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:00 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:08 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:04 <|amethyst> Well, it needs to be something controllable in-game (not editing the rcfile) 18:34:04 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:34:12 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:35:19 <|amethyst> because you *usually* want to pick up the whole stack, and only in a few situations (weight, getting a scroll from your single-tile stash, etc) would you want the number 18:35:38 <|amethyst> I mean, I guess you could make 09, do that but that's even more inconsistent 18:36:24 -1 for making , and g very slightly different like that 18:36:34 this has been discussed several times before, I don't see how anything has changed... 18:36:40 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 18:36:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:36:45 <|amethyst> So take a new key for it then 18:37:03 where do I get this new key? 18:37:11 does, um, ~ do anything? 18:37:15 macros 18:37:18 <|amethyst> SamB: maybe remove some duplicate commands :/ 18:37:19 how do I get my terminal emulator to know about it? 18:37:58 <|amethyst> elliptic: what about making one of g and , always give the menu then 18:38:30 <|amethyst> elliptic: then the difference is not subtle at all, and if someone wants the old behaviour they can remap 18:38:39 |amethyst: I'd prefer something like that, definitely 18:38:54 make s give the pickup menu 18:39:12 -!- keksz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:39:14 03kilobyte 07* 0.13-a0-107-gfa98110: Don't put jester pies on 'e'. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa9811022a31 18:39:16 * elliott has *no* special interest here whatsoever 18:39:38 <|amethyst> I thought s was slated for "sex up mah spiders" 18:39:52 but pies are yummy! I thought eating was what they were for :P 18:42:00 -!- s951 has quit [*.net *.split] 18:42:00 -!- nooodl has quit [*.net *.split] 18:42:00 -!- hurdos has quit [*.net *.split] 18:42:00 -!- home has quit [*.net *.split] 18:42:08 Do you folks think we need a c-r-d mail for potions of marvellous mutationeering? 18:42:41 -!- keksz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:49 no 18:43:05 <|amethyst> unless it's something that would be hard to revert, I don't see the need 18:43:19 ok, so I'll just holler around a bit in this place until the potion materialises 18:43:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: didn't someone implement something a year or so back 18:43:40 <|amethyst> dpeg: potion of evolution 18:43:43 |amethyst: cTele might be easy to revert, too, but it's just controversial 18:43:58 |amethyst: either name is fine -- especially if you code it, you coin it 18:44:11 <|amethyst> let me check mantis 18:44:29 it was a potion that gave the evolution mutation, yeah 18:44:29 MarvinPA: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:44:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: alefury https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5082 18:45:06 <|amethyst> ah, yeah 18:45:12 I don't think potion of evolution is a good idea (or a good name for this good mutation potion) 18:45:27 -!- gluup_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:35 yes, the two things are not the same 18:45:45 <|amethyst> I think evolution would be a good name for the potion if it wasn't already the name of the mutation 18:45:54 <|amethyst> but the mutation deserves it more 18:46:50 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:17 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:47 kilobyte: i can't seem to get USE_LUAJIT to build on debian (on my s-z login) 18:47:52 <|amethyst> No, Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, "acoustic phonetics" is not a synonym for "mutation" 18:48:05 is that because of the 64bit issue? 18:48:12 <|amethyst> mumra: luajit isn't installed on s-z (it's not in Debian stable) 18:48:19 ahh 18:48:23 <|amethyst> mumra: so you will have to use the contrib 18:48:48 there's no error, it just gets to "LINK crawl" and then just doesn't create a file 18:49:02 it should build the contrib in that case 18:49:21 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-108-g66f2c7c: Fix tracers considering cold-vulnerable monsters as immune to hibernation 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=66f2c7cb7a5e 18:49:21 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-109-gafdc835: Don't raise tomb walls on top of monsters 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=afdc83597df3 18:49:21 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-110-g50952ca: Make walls created by Corruption displace monsters and items 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=50952cabbffb 18:49:23 -!- s951 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:23 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:49:33 I mean, I did not test that case, but it was copypasta from regular lua 18:49:37 <|amethyst> mumra: did you get the contribs? 18:49:40 what version of luajit were you building against kilobyte? 18:49:42 |amethyst: yes 18:49:53 the contrib version is an ancient beta 18:50:08 libluajit-5.1-dev:amd64 2.0.0+dfsg-1 18:50:21 dfsg-1? 18:50:27 well, someone put it there, so I guess it worked at least at one time 18:50:29 (contrib version is 2.0.0-beta4) 18:50:42 IIRC it was even the default for Windows 18:50:44 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:08 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:54:06 <|amethyst> mumra: wait, you said it didn't create any file, but "crawl" is right there 18:54:20 <|amethyst> mumra: and according to objdump it contains lj_err.c 18:54:25 03mumra 07* 0.13-a0-111-ga15a607: Finish sorting Lua namespaces, perform some housekeeping 10(10 minutes ago, 7 files, 26+ 63-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a15a607b8691 18:54:42 |amethyst: ok it was just saying "command not found" 18:54:51 <|amethyst> mumra: you need ./crawl 18:54:58 ohh of course lol 18:55:17 <|amethyst> mumra: Unix doesn't put the current directory in the PATH by default for security reasons (someone might have left something nasty in /tmp for example) 18:55:46 -!- keksz has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 18:55:49 heh, i remember this now :) 18:56:50 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:38 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:42 -!- incongruouserudi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:57:46 -!- inspector071 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:03 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:46 kilobyte: i'm getting "bailey.des:169: Unknown error compiling chunk" 18:58:58 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:58:59 something i've been noticing is that .des files are loaded in an indeterminate order 18:59:29 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-112-ga3236f9: Update changelog 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3236f96acca 18:59:36 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 18:59:39 (which is why i didn't catch that first cdo bug earlier, a couple of functions had the same name but one was obsolete; so it wasn't reproducing here) 19:00:08 different loading order and the obsolete version overwrote the good version 19:01:26 MarvinPA: Weren't some of those layouts you mention in the changelog 0.13 stuff, while the other points are 0.12 stuff? 19:01:43 oh hmm 19:01:53 i thought i just mentioned the 0.12 ones 19:01:57 I could be wrong 19:02:11 But did Snake and Coc get some new ones for 0.12? 19:02:32 aha, yeah 19:02:36 %git 2dbfbda57ab14926 19:02:47 03mumra * 0.12-a0-3007-g2dbfbda: More new layouts for Gehenna (and Snake and D) by infiniplex 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 1023+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2dbfbda57ab1 19:02:47 hmm, so, any more ID bugs crop up? 19:02:49 and the coc one is earlier, that was already in the changelog 19:02:56 %git c8b211aa6e503 19:02:56 03evilmike * 0.12-a0-968-gc8b211a: Delve-based layout for Cocytus. (infiniplex) 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 131+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8b211aa6e50 19:03:04 Bugfest in 0.12? 19:03:06 mhh, potion of good mutation is a bit harder to do that potion of evolution 19:03:08 What've I been missing? 19:03:12 potions are surprisingly annoying to add though 19:03:19 a bit easier since evap got removed though 19:03:26 there's another new coc one since .12, i think a couple of others i added went in Snake in .12 too 19:03:29 MarvinPA: Ha, that Coc one was so old I thought it was 0.11 >.> 19:03:30 still like 10 things to do or so 19:05:51 MarvinPA: could mention something like "Countless other vaults have been tweaked, improved, and balanced" 19:07:39 three new sprint maps in one version is pretty good 19:08:20 Clearly we should aspire for at least four in 0.13. 19:08:28 ...meaning get to work, st_ :b 19:08:38 i will contribute eelsprint 19:08:45 Hi eeliott. 19:08:57 there's hangedman's gauntlet 19:09:02 and boulder dash 19:09:04 Grunt: multilevel sprints and restricted races/classes and modified XP gain and we have a deal 19:09:31 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 19:09:39 we already have tutorial; multilevel sprints should be no problem, right? 19:10:00 This isn't the first time that's been brought up; I'd need to remind myself of the particulars. 19:10:21 mumra: The gauntlet was intended as a portal vault concept, though 19:10:30 ohh true 19:10:46 i've seen lots of comments to the effect of "it's easy to do this now so let's make zigsprint multilevel" but i have no idea what changes that actually requires, yeah 19:11:01 i assume someone out there knows how to do it :P 19:11:05 whats the gauntlet? arena sprint or just regular sprint1 seem very gauntletty to me 19:11:22 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:24 MarvinPA: i think kilobyte is saying these things 19:11:30 that's the one where you run through rooms ahead of the fire right? 19:11:33 I'll probably look into it at some point. 19:11:46 ?? gauntlet 19:11:47 gauntlet[1/2]: An work-in-progress, thankless, timer-based portal vault of HangedMan.s, probably 0.13 material. If you can make good vaults in very limited structures and are interested in contributing subvaults, contact said maker. If you want to test a version of it, see the next entry. 19:11:51 zigsprint could easily fake multilevel by destroying and rebuilding everything on the map (don't zigs already do that and in fact couldn't we just use zig code directly?) 19:12:06 zigs are a "proper branch" 19:12:28 maybe they used to fake it at least, i saw a comment to that effect 19:12:42 zigs used to be really fucking weird 19:13:13 Why is the word "thankless" in that entry :| 19:13:26 Because HangedMan? 19:13:33 basically 19:13:48 flounce-boy? 19:14:01 you should force him to be a dev, so his complaints have a basis :P 19:14:08 why is "A" spelled with an 'n'. 19:14:45 !learn edit gauntlet[1] s/An /A / 19:14:46 gauntlet[1/2]: A work-in-progress, thankless, timer-based portal vault of HangedMan.s, probably 0.13 material. If you can make good vaults in very limited structures and are interested in contributing subvaults, contact said maker. If you want to test a version of it, see the next entry. 19:15:19 also HangedMan.s 19:15:28 HangedMan is p.terrible imo 19:15:45 st for vault dev? :P 19:16:55 ++ 19:18:16 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:19:33 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 19:21:33 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleeep] 19:24:48 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:56 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:27 -!- rkd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:54 -!- s951 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:12 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:53 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:06 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44:37 -!- Thalfon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:44 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:23 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:49:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:49:44 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:53:24 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:56:42 -!- dcssrubot387 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:48 -!- yogaFLAME has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:05 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:00:54 -!- Marceluiz has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:01:27 -!- newq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:07:01 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:11:30 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:19:06 -!- Svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 20:34:40 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:20 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 20:37:39 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:34 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-113-gb555094: Fix scrolls of summoning being colored harmful to good god worshippers 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b555094941c7 20:40:52 -!- ZipZipskins has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:52 does anyone know what igrd is and where it's defined? it's an array of some kind, but grep isn't leading me to it's definition 20:42:00 sorry :( 20:42:09 It's the item grid 20:42:31 See env.h 20:43:27 ah i see it now 20:43:28 thank you 20:43:55 now i know where to look when i find other mysterious grids too 20:44:01 Yup 20:45:27 welcome to crawl code 20:45:38 03MarvinPA 07* 0.13-a0-114-gd36bcad: Adjust an entry vault 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 9-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d36bcada3307 20:45:43 Only somewhat better than NetHack code. 20:45:54 A hell of a lot better from the last time I looked at NetHack code 20:46:01 "where is [thing]? it's not in [thing.cc]" "it's in [completelyunrelatedthing.cc], nobody knows why" 20:46:13 ontoclasm: Well, env.h is where all the environment stuff is 20:46:16 So that much makes sense 20:46:30 You stare into the NetHack codebase. You are confused. 20:46:46 s/stare/gaze/ 20:47:24 <|amethyst> Grunt: I don't remember the nethack codebase being nearly as incomprehensible as crawl's, but obviously you've done a lot more with it so I'll take your word on it :) 20:47:28 ontoclasm: Oh, in case you missed it, I think something is slightly off about one or two of the starspawn tentacle corner tiles. I actually 'fixed' one of them myself, since how to do it was more obvious 20:47:57 DracoOmega: pics or it didn't happen ;-P 20:48:24 Well, when I realized I was trying to fix one of the others, it occured to me that I don't know what I'm doing 20:48:33 So I stopped 20:48:44 Hey, there are some tiles around from people that didn't know what they're doing. 20:49:01 Well, fixing the other corner was just a matter of shifting a pixel up and changing the color 20:49:05 'art' 20:49:14 Since it wasn't aligned exactly right 20:51:00 is there an original with all the tiles on? 20:52:23 You mean the original unedited corner tile? 20:52:37 It's not in the repo anywhere, if that's what you mean 20:52:55 nethack's codebase is worse than crawl's by quite a way i think 20:53:03 DracoOmega: i'll look into it 20:53:16 ontoclasm: Yeah, it's just a tiny thing 20:53:17 the corners gave me a headache since i had to draw them with no context 20:53:23 Yeah, I figured context would help 20:53:29 Now that you can actually see them easily 20:53:43 The one that was off was obviously a pixel too short compared to what it was supposed to connect to :P 20:54:02 The others are less obvious, but one or two still feel slightly not quite right (harder to put my finger on why though) 20:54:05 I notice that some people draw several tiles in one image 20:55:09 yeah, i do that sometimes 20:55:20 but the tentacle tiles have to fit together in weird ways 20:55:54 i think i drew one long tentacle, cut it up, then ad libbed the rest 20:57:10 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:53 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 20:58:15 -!- blackcustard has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:58:20 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 21:01:34 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 21:09:30 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 21:09:43 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:09:45 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 21:10:34 DracoOmega: okay, done 21:10:58 suggestion though, might it be possible to draw a tentacle segment -underneath- the starspawn itself? 21:11:11 probably not but it'd be neat 21:11:30 humm ... cdo seems to be not updating again 21:11:31 Hmmm... trying to think of some sane way to do this with current tile code 21:11:43 Really, the way that the corners are done at the moment really bugs me, too 21:11:53 It's like a whole collection of tile flags, like are used for status icons 21:12:07 There's one for every corner variant 21:12:12 (So currently 12) 21:12:53 -!- PsyMar has quit [Client Quit] 21:13:36 I think what you say would require some more general rewritting, actually, since I don't think there is any way to paste two tiles from this same layer in the same spot 21:14:07 But it certainly would help the tiles look connected to the starspawn 21:14:20 !seen Napkin 21:14:21 I last saw Napkin at Mon Apr 1 17:50:45 2013 UTC (8h 23m 36s ago) saying 'but i killed the update.sh' on ##crawl-dev. 21:14:26 (Somehow I think the new tiles look even more disconnected than the old ones did. Maybe it's just me?) 21:15:57 03ontoclasm 07* 0.13-a0-115-gf85877e: Fix up some starspawn tentacle tiles 10(6 minutes ago, 6 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f85877e101e0 21:16:18 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:17:35 -!- sbanwart_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:17:56 DracoOmega: hm? i thought i fixed all the bits that looked wrong 21:18:28 if you see something that sticks out and screenshot it i'll fix it 21:18:30 No, no, I just mean from the body 21:18:33 Since there is a gab 21:18:35 gap* 21:18:36 oh 21:18:46 i think it's mainly because they're brighter 21:18:48 And somehow the gap was less noticable with the eldritch tiles (even though it obviously still existed) 21:18:52 Yeah, I was just about to say that 21:19:04 Or because they're bigger, maybe 21:20:12 perhaps 21:21:16 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:32 -!- gnsh has quit [] 21:22:57 -!- dcssrubot350 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:27 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:50 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:57 -!- madreisz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:27 03dolorous 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-4-ge2a8130: Fix inconsistencies and duplicate code regarding hibernating monsters. 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 15+ 12-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e2a813050f28 22:01:27 03DracoOmega 07[stone_soup-0.12] * 0.12-b1-5-gf392f9c: Fix tracers considering cold-vulnerable monsters as immune to hibernation 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f392f9cdcba8 22:03:23 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:29 -!- bh has quit [Changing host] 22:03:29 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:38 hai 22:08:10 #dump 22:08:18 %dump 22:08:18 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/eeviac/eeviac.txt 22:09:21 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7492&p=100709 22:09:24 some people are very serious. 22:10:27 bh: how much Tavern experience do you have? :b 22:10:47 Grunt: generally my posts have been well received 22:10:55 there's a lot of garbage 22:11:23 I saw a post by some guy who says he's in a business class and wants to survey the devs. His question about "Have you ever had any serious legal problems?" makes me suspicious. 22:11:35 I remember that post. 22:13:38 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:18:41 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 22:19:53 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:24:31 I think the most exciting legal event we had was relicensing crawl 22:26:50 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 22:26:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 22:28:45 bh: the funny thing about that thread is how he completely imagined this whole thing about killer klowns throwing pies and blinding the player 22:29:01 That sounds remarkably appropriate. 22:29:07 Except for the whole player blindness part. 22:29:09 mumra: if you get hit by a pie you get confused 22:29:24 Nethack didn't have killer klowns, did it? 22:29:34 the way he's worded it makes it sound like he thinks killer klowns were only just added, along with the pies 22:29:34 I only recall the cops 22:29:55 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:32 basically every single part of every sentence is wrong, irrespective of how he totally missed the point in the first place 22:31:38 you couldn't make this up! 22:32:41 -!- CampinSam has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:33:09 -!- soundlst is now known as soundlust 22:33:16 How many more days should we give Jesters? 22:33:17 FridaY? 22:35:11 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:35:55 bh: btw just watching 78291 in Zot:5 with his dgjr of nem 22:36:12 ooo 22:36:16 he's like got the orb just now 22:37:10 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:37:12 zot <3's magic mapping 22:37:29 bh: pretty much everyone on ##crawl seems to want seems to want jr to stay permanently ;) 22:37:56 pretty sure that's not actually true ;) 22:38:07 I'd say give it a week 22:38:10 ok, pretty much all the loudest people then 22:38:14 mumra: I'd want to remove the xom perma-wrath, pies, nerf the quarterstaff 22:38:21 and nemelex 22:38:23 -!- InternetKraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:44 a background starting with a chaos weapon and xom wrath is sort of interesting I guess 22:38:55 probably should also remove the party tricks 22:39:02 <|amethyst> nemelex is just too start-scummable as long as plain decks of wonders contain the cards they do 22:39:20 <|amethyst> if it weren't for that I'd like the idea of a card knight 22:39:28 |amethyst: nemelex isn't a good starting god 22:39:40 not just for scummy reasons 22:39:56 shall we remove priests? 22:40:05 i don't seriously think it'd be good to keep permanently, but they are a lot of fun 22:40:15 mumra: Jester Sprint! :) 22:41:06 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:56 IMO CK should start with a chaos weapon 22:42:59 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:43:06 why not just immediately abandon xom? 22:43:09 instead of the weapon having a ridiculous enchantment for no reason 22:43:26 bh: you can already start CK and abandon xom on turn 0 and get a +2 weapon in return for xom wrath 22:43:33 and a +2 weapon is really good early on 22:43:39 yeah 22:43:49 chaos doesn't really seem much worse than that 22:43:58 it has drawbacks, for a start 22:44:31 The ogre goes berserk! 22:44:57 giving CK a +0 chaos weapon instead of the +2 weapon might be okay 22:45:03 Yes, I think I like this idea 22:45:05 More chaosy 22:45:13 * Grunt read "More cheesy" 22:45:22 chaos is really strong but buffing CK certainly shouldn't be a concern 22:45:47 And it's in-theme in a fun way 22:45:50 btw I stole this idea from monqy 22:45:53 from some ancient tavern thread 22:45:58 but it's okay because it's a good idea 22:46:03 Plus you get the benefit of shafting yourself against the first thing you fight! :P 22:46:09 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:20 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:17 CK, good for speedruns 22:48:51 It improves your speed to horrible unavoidable death 22:49:05 So in that sense, yes :P 22:50:14 unfortunately this +2 -> brand strategy works less well for AK 22:50:35 Yes, well that would be less fun anyway 22:51:48 -!- AriaB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:25 if i dump a char in-game online, shouldn't it say where i can get it? 22:57:56 why? it doesn't say that if you dump a char offline either 22:58:18 and there are links to such things on the server websites 22:58:20 FR: A unique in Hells named Guido who's only hostile if you worship a good god 22:58:26 o_O? 22:58:30 <|amethyst> crawl doesn't really have a good way to get that information 22:59:40 Grunt: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_I_da_Montefeltro 23:00:32 elliptic: if i dump a char offline it at least says "char dumped to 'morgue/Blah.txt'" 23:01:10 -!- Wehk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:13 people still have trouble finding that 23:01:27 well yeah :) 23:01:52 it'd be pretty easy to display a url tho, in webtiles it can even be clickable 23:02:13 How would Crawl know what the URL is? 23:02:18 default options 23:02:40 -!- santiago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:02:40 <|amethyst> could use a compile-time option and/or an environment variable 23:02:42 -!- Parak_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:15 yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to get one piece of string data into the game :) 23:04:04 it's not exactly a priority, but a nice usability feature 23:05:42 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:08:11 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:41 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:18:35 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:29:00 !lg . quitting 23:29:01 55. pivotal the Chopper (L6 HOJr), worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh, quit the game on D:4 on 2013-04-01 20:42:58, with 530 points after 4313 turns and 0:15:08. 23:32:45 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Quit: I've killed the senator.] 23:34:31 -!- Ellick has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:38:43 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:24 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:48:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:49:11 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:51:02 -!- Egglet has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:57:51 03DracoOmega 07* 0.13-a0-116-ge904e0d: Make Chaos Knights start with +0 chaos weapons instead of +2 normal ones 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e904e0d0ebbe 23:58:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:59 -!- gluup_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]