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00:06:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
00:06:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious!
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00:06:35 <dtsund> Spearthrower statue is probably defined in a .des file somewhere.
00:06:35 <dtsund> Vaults can customize monsters.
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00:06:35 <AriaB> I can't find it using: grep -ir spearthrower *
00:06:35 <elliptic> are you sure this monster exists? I can't find it either
00:06:55 <ChrisOelmueller> maybe it was removed in the batch of V stuff
00:07:10 <AriaB> I've only been able to see it by using a save provided by the bug submitter.
00:07:10 <ChrisOelmueller> because it sure sounds like that
00:07:16 <elliptic> yeah, I guess it was removed
00:07:21 <ChrisOelmueller> oh wait, there was this wizlab on mantis
00:07:27 <ChrisOelmueller> by infiniplex
00:07:47 <ChrisOelmueller> i think i've seen spearthrower statues there
00:08:00 <ChrisOelmueller> together with other not-so-well working monsters and features
00:08:49 <ChrisOelmueller> yeah, it's in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6330
00:09:23 <elliptic> it was in dat/des/serial/vaults_crystal.des
00:09:25 <elliptic> but was removed
00:10:23 <AriaB> well that explains it
00:14:46 <elliptic> %git 423a8067
00:14:53 <Cheibriados> 03st_ * 0.12-a0-1346-g423a806: Fix and remove some vaults. 10(2 months ago, 5 files, 26+ 1455-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=423a80670d66
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00:14:53 <AriaB> Here's the mantis bug if someone wants to mark it as resolved: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6370
00:14:53 <elliptic> thanks, resolved
00:14:53 <AriaB> You're welcome :)
00:15:06 <elliptic> that was fittingly slow, Chei
00:17:28 <AriaB> Also, what is the verdict on this bug? (should nets do damage) https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6578#bugnotes
00:18:06 <SamB> I think it was "yes, that's funny" ?
00:18:35 <SamB> and someone said something about it happening because monster throw damage is mostly based on HD
00:19:10 <elliptic> IMO it is a bug, nets should never do damage
00:19:15 <elliptic> but others may disagree
00:22:57 <ChrisOelmueller> sounds good
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00:25:31 <kilobyte> monster missile code in general needs to be nuked and rewritten.  In this order.
00:25:56 <Zannick> but first they need to fire the nuke
00:26:02 <kilobyte> player too, for that matter
00:26:35 <kilobyte> I'd count a nuke as a spell
00:26:57 <ChrisOelmueller> or a zap??
00:27:04 <ChrisOelmueller> :o
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00:31:09 <|amethyst> Chei was so slow there because gitorious is wigging out
00:31:09 <kilobyte> DEATH TO ZAPS!!!1!!!elebentyone!!e^iπ
00:31:09 <kilobyte> zaps are merely duplicated code, though, missiles are an X unto Xom
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00:51:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious!
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01:04:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
01:04:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO has telnet again. Let rax know if there are problems. | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ?cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious!
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01:08:31 <|amethyst> okay, switched chei over to git.develz.org again
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03:07:12 <Naruni> hi guys, im looking at the source file spl-cast.cc and on line 1746 is what i believe the switch for spell noise. reading through that switch i am led to believe that since portal projectile is not listed as a case, that spell has a noise of 0 or silent?
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03:32:54 <alefury> Naruni: im not sure, i think casting noise comes purely from spell level, and whats listed there is the noise of the *effect* of the spell
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03:33:28 <alefury> Naruni: so portal projectile should be pretty low noise, but not completely silent
03:34:40 <Naruni> alefury: i tested it in wiz mode and it had a value of quiet (2)... thanks
03:34:41 <alefury> you can just check its ingame description, it lists the maximum of effect and casting noise afaik
03:38:16 <Naruni> im also trying to read a bit more about ranged combat, but i cant find any source file. ive found fight and melee_attack but no ranged_attack
03:39:14 <Naruni> maybe its in beam
03:40:12 <ChrisOelmueller> without actually checking it should be in throw
03:45:42 <Naruni> it is
03:46:42 <alefury> dont read that
03:46:55 <alefury> its not good reading
03:47:11 <ChrisOelmueller> that holds for pretty much all of crawl code
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04:03:16 <Naruni> strbonus = std::min(lnchDamBonus + 1, strbonus); does this mean if you have a +0,+0 bow you will only get a +1 str damage bonus regardless of how strong you are?
04:04:54 <alefury> apparently, yes
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04:05:46 <Naruni> in the whole case of bows i see nothing else that disproves the statement
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04:05:53 <Naruni> thanks alefury
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04:16:41 <st_> MPgauge looks like he's going for apocalypse on cszo
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05:17:01 <absolutego> st_: mudo should apocalypse
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07:16:05 <Gretell> ldf (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (Zot:3)
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07:26:44 <Gretell> partyhat (L23 DEMo) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:25)
07:26:55 <absolutego> what did i do
07:27:09 <absolutego> !log partyhat -crash
07:27:09 <Sequell> Malformed argument: -crash
07:27:21 <absolutego> what was the command again?
07:30:49 <MarvinPA> !lm partyhat -log
07:30:49 <Henzell> MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
07:30:50 <Sequell> 2140. partyhat, XL23 DEMo, T:91670 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/partyhat/crash-partyhat-20130226-132643.txt
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07:33:31 <absolutego> oh yep, thanks
07:35:14 <absolutego> should i just report this with the crash log, i have no idea what's it about
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07:36:08 <edlothiol> absolutego: it's already been fixed
07:36:34 <absolutego> how efficient
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09:59:59 <Gretell> juffowup (L3 SETm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:2)
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10:03:51 <Gretell> juffowup (L3 SETm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:2)
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10:09:17 <Gretell> juffowup (L5 SETm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:5)
10:09:42 <Gretell> juffowup (L5 SETm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:5)
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10:29:23 <Gretell> juffowup (L2 SETm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:2)
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10:55:25 <Cheibriados> Games in webtiles are left open sometimes when use disconnects (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6702) by Voker57
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11:35:11 <Cryp71c> Morning
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12:16:39 <Cheibriados> 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2419-gc511d4a: Fix spelling. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c511d4a2556d
12:16:39 <Cheibriados> 03dolorous 07* 0.12-a0-2420-g705d638: Add formatting fixes. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=705d6381d069
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12:55:14 <Gretell> Kellhus (L6 HOTm) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:4)
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15:38:55 <SamB> say, I noticed that zotvault (zotdef map 1) is has assymmetrical treasure placement ... I don't expect that was intentional?
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16:47:47 <Gretell> jeanjacques (L2 CeAr) ASSERT(is_weapon(wpn)) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1635 failed. (D:2)
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16:48:29 <SamB> kilobyte: I thought you fixed that one ...
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17:15:21 <Cheibriados> 03elliptic 07* 0.12-a0-2421-g4da8ae9: Reduce battlesphere damage slightly. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4da8ae99144b
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17:30:31 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-2422-g55d710a: Don't spawn random monsters in xom_gifts_altar 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=55d710a0e805
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17:35:36 <Cheibriados> New decorative serial vault, misc vaults. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6703) by Claws
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17:51:55 <kilobyte> !lm jeanjacques type=crash -log
17:51:55 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
17:51:57 <Sequell> 14. jeanjacques, XL2 CeAr, T:196 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/jeanjacques/crash-jeanjacques-20130226-224745.txt
17:52:50 <kilobyte> SamB: his crash is from 0.12-a0-2413-g03c53c6, my fix is 0.12-a0-2415-g541eb91
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17:53:25 <SamB> oh, he was still on the old version?
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19:36:58 <DracoOmega> New theory on the mysterious gnoll shaman heal other targeting bug
19:37:07 <DracoOmega> It's in the self-enchant slot (which bypasses tracer checks)
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19:41:54 <Cheibriados> 03SamB 07* 0.12-a0-2423-gddcdc49: Fix an asymmetry in zotvault (Zot Defence Scenario I: Hall of Zot). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ddcdc4933cba
19:44:05 <DracoOmega> Of course, all their spell slots are full, but this is almost certainly what's causing the issue
19:44:32 <DracoOmega> (Possibly they could just lose that copy of it? They already have it in another slot, too)
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19:45:22 <Cheibriados> gnoll shaman (16g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-27 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 40 | Sp: corona, petrify, heal other, haste other, minor healing | Sz: Medium | Int: normal.

19:45:22 <ChrisOelmueller> %??gnoll shaman
19:45:22 <Henzell> ChrisOelmueller: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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19:45:37 <ChrisOelmueller> who likes petrify on those
19:46:06 <DracoOmega> I am fine with it
19:46:36 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  if that "ignore tracer checks" thing remains, then I think no one should have a targetted spell in that slot
19:46:38 <ChrisOelmueller> you mentioned that they're full which led me notice that i don't even remember all the things they can do
19:46:55 <DracoOmega> |amethyst: As general policy, yes. I think almost nothing does, though.
19:47:06 <ChrisOelmueller> and i'm not a big fan of "can do everything so actually doesn't do much" monsters
19:47:20 <DracoOmega> Possibly spell slot behavior should be changed anyway, but this is probably more complicated
19:48:37 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  can you point me at the relevant line of code for not doing the tracer checks?
19:48:49 <DracoOmega> Hmmm... cacodemons have confuse in that slot
19:48:57 <DracoOmega> That might explain why people have gotten confused by ally cacodemons
19:49:33 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  I remember looking at in in mon-cast a few dags ago but forgot exactly where
19:49:52 <DracoOmega> 2093
19:49:59 <DracoOmega> Wait, no
19:50:17 <DracoOmega> Oh, nevermind, yes
19:50:25 <DracoOmega> I misread the if statement below it for a moment
19:51:41 <|amethyst> so does that ignore the waste of time checks too?
19:51:52 <DracoOmega> I... think it might?
19:51:54 <|amethyst> oh, no
19:52:05 <|amethyst> the waste-of-time check sets hspell_pass[i] to SPELL_NO_SPELL
19:52:25 <DracoOmega> Wait, it does?
19:52:45 <|amethyst> 1893
19:53:29 <DracoOmega> Oh, huh
19:55:14 <|amethyst> I guess the real question is, what checks *should* the fallback thing skip
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19:55:35 <DracoOmega> Well, if it's actually a fallback, it makes sense for it to be things that don't need checks
19:55:48 <DracoOmega> But this also means that the slot shouldn't contain things that do need checks
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19:56:08 <|amethyst> it's not obvious to someone putting a spell in that slot what that means
19:56:12 <DracoOmega> Indeed
19:56:31 <DracoOmega> And it's labelled 'self-enchant', but used for many things besides that (for which it also happens to work fine)
19:56:59 <DracoOmega> I am not sure that it is important to have an auto-fallback slot, anyway? I mean, wouldn't it still stumble upon that spell if none of the others had valid targets?
19:57:33 <DracoOmega> But I haven't looked closely enough to be sure of this
19:57:42 <DracoOmega> (And it wouldn't surprise me if it's more complicated than that somehow)
19:59:47 <|amethyst> it has four tries to pick a good spell
20:00:00 <|amethyst> each one a random choice
20:00:08 <|amethyst> among all the slots, even the empty ones
20:00:43 <|amethyst> I personally think the fallback should be a fallback choice, but should still do checks
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20:01:01 <|amethyst> so if after four tries it doesn't pick a spell, it tries the fallback slot on the fifth try
20:01:10 <|amethyst> if that *still* doesn't work, oh well, it doesn't cast
20:01:37 <DracoOmega> That probably makes sense
20:02:06 <DracoOmega> Mightn't even be too hard to implement, even
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20:02:09 <|amethyst> Then, if someone uses a spell that doesn't need checks, then there's no change
20:02:10 <DracoOmega> Yeah
20:02:20 <DracoOmega> And it still stops this odd behavior cropping up
20:02:23 <|amethyst> if it does need a check, then I'd say not casting anything is better than casting a bad spell
20:02:27 <DracoOmega> Yes
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20:03:10 <DracoOmega> I don't think anyone will complain that their cacodemons choose not to cast instead of confusing them
20:03:12 <|amethyst> I'm referring to the "int loopy" loop
20:03:27 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  well, the confusing thing shouldn't happen
20:03:45 <|amethyst> oh
20:04:03 <DracoOmega> Well, I mean it happens currently since that is in the self-enchant slot
20:04:11 <DracoOmega> So they will cast it without noticing or caring that the player is in the way
20:04:17 <|amethyst> right, I was thinking the mons->wont_attack() etc stuff
20:04:18 <|amethyst> yeah
20:04:32 <|amethyst> it does make sure they don't *target* the player with it, but they can miss
20:04:36 <DracoOmega> Yeah
20:04:56 <DracoOmega> Well, not just miss, here. But they are probably aiming at something behind the player and don't notice the player in the way
20:05:06 <|amethyst> the problem is, testing such a change would be a real pain
20:05:23 <|amethyst> you'd want to add instrumentation to count monster casts of different spells in arena
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20:05:47 <SamB> |amethyst: go forth and instrument crawl!
20:05:48 <|amethyst> and make sure that the change doesn't affect frequency of casting check-free spells in those slots
20:05:49 <DracoOmega> If it only vetos things with invalid tracers and such, why does it need such rigorous testing?
20:06:32 <DracoOmega> Just something like if (spell_needs_tracer && !mon_should_cast) then do-nothing
20:06:38 <DracoOmega> And otherwise the same as now
20:06:41 <SamB> to make sure it has the intended effect, I suppose?
20:06:54 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  that's by no means the only check
20:07:43 <DracoOmega> Can you give me an example of something important this would miss?
20:07:58 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  other checks that are skipped by that slot: no bros if berserk, no ledas over water, no tormenting allies, ...
20:08:01 <SamB> that's what testing is for
20:08:19 <|amethyst> there's also a check for _set_allied_target for the haste/heal/might other spells
20:08:42 <DracoOmega> Well, wouldn't those be caught by the tracer check?
20:09:06 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  my thought was to add one more iteration to the "int loopy" loop, and in the last iteration use hspell_pass[2] instead of [random2(5)]
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20:09:23 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  Leda's doesn't have a tracer, for example
20:09:25 <DracoOmega> Oh, that might be even simpler
20:10:03 <|amethyst> then the if (!spellOK) fallback if could just die
20:10:09 <DracoOmega> Yeah
20:10:23 <DracoOmega> That probably makes a lot more sense
20:10:40 <|amethyst> my worry is that there's some weird monster that relies on skipping some of those checks to be dangerous
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20:11:52 <en> better to have something working but not very effective than weird bugs, no?
20:12:22 <SamB> en: better to catch the de-fang at the time, no?
20:12:24 <|amethyst> ture... not everything checked for is a bug, but lots are
20:12:28 <|amethyst> s/true/
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20:12:42 <|amethyst> one example: maybe someone has a vault with a berskerker monster with BiA in slot 2
20:13:19 <|amethyst> normally monsters won't cast BiA unless they've already berserked, but if BiA is in slot 2 they can
20:14:10 <|amethyst> I guess it would be good to have a list of every slot 2 spell
20:14:18 <DracoOmega> Well, I have looked over all the normal monster spell sets now, and there are only a couple cases of spells that seem to need checks on them being in that slot
20:14:37 <DracoOmega> Of course, I don't know all the checks off the top of my head, so this may not be right
20:14:51 <DracoOmega> But stuff that comes to mind as potentially suspect:
20:15:17 <DracoOmega> Cacodemon confusion, gnoll shaman heal other, deep elf death mage vampiric draining, khufu smiting, cloud mage poison cloud, Roxanne blink other close
20:15:59 <nicolae-> what's special about slot 2
20:16:20 <DracoOmega> Well, Gloorx also has torment in slot 2, but I don't think this matters unless he somehow becomes your ally?
20:16:33 <|amethyst> nicolae-:  it can skip some of the checks normally done for spells
20:16:44 <|amethyst> nicolae-:  including all the tracer stuff
20:16:55 <DracoOmega> In which case I suppose an enslaved gloorx can still sometimes torment you. Somehow I think I am fine with that :P
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20:17:18 <nicolae-> oh. is that intended or a bug?
20:17:18 <mumra> |amethyst: why in particular is that BiA behaviour there? which monsters does it actually apply to?
20:17:47 <mumra> (i ask because it explains a problem i was having with custom monsters apparently never casting BiA)
20:17:55 <|amethyst> nicolae-:  it's intended to be a fallback, but there is a bug in the combination of the spell not doing tracer checks and tracer-using spells being in that slot
20:18:24 <DracoOmega> mumra: Well, it's to make spriggan and deep dwarf berserkers bezerk first before summoning
20:18:37 <|amethyst> mumra:  no monster can cast BiA (except from the third slot as a fallback) if it doesn't have the "went_berserk" property
20:18:41 <DracoOmega> (I am not certain this is really needed, mind you, but that's the stated intent)
20:18:47 <mumra> yeah i understand the how
20:18:53 <mumra> i'm just not sure about the why...
20:19:03 <|amethyst> // Monsters shouldn't cast BiA before going berserk.
20:19:03 <|amethyst> // Thematically, they are berserkers, they rush into
20:19:03 <|amethyst> // battle without thinking. Stopping before berserk to
20:19:03 <|amethyst> // ask your god for a few friends seems like too
20:19:03 <|amethyst> // complicated a thought.
20:19:08 <DracoOmega> In fact, I don't believe I have ever seen those monsters use it ever
20:19:13 <DracoOmega> Since usually they are dead before this
20:19:17 <DracoOmega> (Or you are)
20:19:34 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  there are plenty of vault monsters with offensive targetted spells in that slot
20:19:50 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  master elementalist has sticky flame range there
20:20:13 <DracoOmega> Well, presumably this would only stop them from casting it on things that it wouldn't want to anyway, no?
20:20:29 <SamB> DracoOmega: who knows?
20:20:30 <|amethyst> DracoOmega:  yeah, this fix would be good for those monsters
20:20:34 <DracoOmega> Since if this is reusing all the normal checks, this are already applying to all other spells
20:20:49 <DracoOmega> And they seem to be working fine >.>
20:20:59 <|amethyst> the tengu aerator has chain lightning in that slot
20:21:15 <|amethyst> I guess removing ally-damage checks does make that spell more interesting
20:21:17 <|amethyst> :)
20:21:38 <|amethyst> master blaster has ice storm there
20:21:56 <DracoOmega> Does monster chain lightning even currently check for allies?
20:22:15 <|amethyst> I have no clue, I guessed it uses a tracer of some sort but I haven't looked
20:22:21 <DracoOmega> I'm pretty sure it doesn't
20:22:31 <DracoOmega> (I just had another quick check then)
20:22:49 <|amethyst> chilling statue has refrig in that slot
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20:24:16 <DracoOmega> I think that only has an ally-check if it's on the player's side (and then, only for the player)
20:24:41 <|amethyst> maybe currently
20:24:44 <DracoOmega> Yes
20:25:12 <|amethyst> I believe there are standing dev complaints about monster OTR and Refrig not doing those checks
20:25:19 <|amethyst> do I don't expect it to stay that way
20:25:34 <DracoOmega> Yes
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20:28:19 <SamB> how about blaster master? what does that have?
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22:03:08 <|amethyst> SamB:  (sorry, went AFK right then) Master Blaster has Ice Storm in its monster_spells[2]
22:03:12 <Cheibriados> Master Blaster (13L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 1500 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(560), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d23), ice storm (10d19), miasma (3d20), teleport self | Sz: Medium | Int: high.

22:03:12 <|amethyst> %??master blaster
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22:03:41 * SamB was making a lame joke about the name of an NES game ...
22:03:48 <|amethyst> oh, sorry
22:03:57 <|amethyst> It has a frog
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22:04:09 <SamB> it certainly seems that it does
22:04:22 * SamB does not recall if he has ever gotten far enough to actually face this foe
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22:04:57 <|amethyst> Not having actually seen Mad Max, the NES game was my first thought when I saw that commit
22:05:59 <DracoOmega> I thought it was related to that, too, actually
22:06:05 <DracoOmega> Until now, apparently?
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