00:01:26 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1426-g7f04164 (34) 00:03:43 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:05:52 -!- noppa354 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:32 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:12:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:26:04 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 00:31:31 -!- zz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:39:51 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 00:48:54 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:54:24 -!- archl is now known as jiero 00:58:49 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:08:10 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:34 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:09 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 01:17:45 I don't suppose there's any obvious reason why calling monster::move_to_pos would consistently crash with ASSERT(mindex <= MAX_MONSTERS) in monster_at? 01:18:02 I must be doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what 01:31:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:31:36 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 01:34:44 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:35:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:59 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 01:46:36 -!- Guest97754 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:40 -!- Guest97754 is now known as _dd 01:51:08 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:58:27 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:58:27 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 02:07:46 -!- Malik_Gynax has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:08:01 -!- rakelyvonrakenwu is now known as Malik_Gynax 02:09:16 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:38 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:12:39 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 02:13:34 -!- ddd is now known as Guest38496 02:17:07 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:07 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 02:21:12 -!- aleksil has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:55 -!- squid_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:22 -!- Guest38496 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:35:04 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:37:10 -!- Lasse- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:37:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:41:43 I'm still baffled as to why this is happening 02:42:28 DracoOmega: what is mindex, the monsters index in the table of monsters on the level you are on? 02:42:41 I think so, yes 02:42:58 I'm still not even sure where this monster_at is being called from, though 02:43:02 No stack trace -.- 02:43:20 But I can't see why moving a monster would create invalid values anyway 02:43:43 what is the value of MAX_MONSTERS 02:43:48 700 02:43:54 hmm 02:44:00 At the time, the monster being moved is like... 1 or 2 02:44:04 odd 02:44:08 Yeah 02:44:12 is it underflowing somehow? 02:44:20 I suppose that's possible, but I don't see how 02:44:42 is the tag 'monster_at' for the method in question? 02:45:16 so monster_at returns a pointer to a monster object? 02:46:22 Yes, it looks like triggering that assert requires that SOMEHOW an invalid value has gotten written into the monster grid for the location in question 02:46:29 hmm 02:46:33 But simply moving a monster doesn't seem like it could possibly do that 02:47:17 right 02:47:48 did you look at monster::moveto 02:48:19 i can't find a call to monster_at anywhere either 02:48:30 Yeah, it completes the whole routine that this spell does 02:48:38 And then crashes sometime before I get another turn 02:48:46 you are developing a new spell? 02:48:48 Yes 02:49:09 But it is that one line that is triggering the crash, though 02:49:13 weird 02:49:26 and you don't know where the call is coming from? 02:49:26 Especially since I'm pretty sure it's a valid location that it's being moved to 02:49:39 No, it completes all the code I wrote for the ability 02:49:41 what kind of spell is it? 02:49:42 ah 02:49:42 Then crashes sometime later 02:49:45 weird 02:49:52 but before the end of the turn 02:49:55 Yes 02:49:58 i should really learn how to use gsb 02:50:02 err gdb 02:51:01 DracoOmega: could you get your patch to me somehow? 02:51:05 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:15 i like trying to debug stuff because i look at parts of the code i haven't seen before 02:51:46 something that i could wget would be appreciated :) 02:51:52 wget? 02:52:17 oh, could you make a patch of your code you are having trouble with so i can apply it to my repo? 02:53:05 i don't have a web browser on my development machine so a link to a 'raw' file saves me an scp 02:53:08 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:54:05 Well, it's kind of in a not-really-functional state yet. But if this next thing I am trying doesn't shed any light on it, I can try to do so 02:54:43 ok sounds good 02:55:24 Like most bugs like this, I have probably done something silly that I am just overlooking 03:00:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:01:27 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:04:23 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:04:23 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 03:09:21 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:10:13 Debugging through repeated deliberate crashing. Gotta love it 03:17:13 -!- eyhung has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:21:10 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:22:02 Okay, so clearly it is something wrong with the creature that is BEING moved. Since it seems to think its own index is -1431691704 somehow 03:23:22 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:56 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:24:59 And I'm not sure why, because that ISN'T what its index is for other purposes 03:25:31 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:40 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:51 -!- chavez has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:26:26 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:28:40 I mean, the wizmode examine command and other places give the correct index 03:28:48 But mon::mindex() gives a garbage answer 03:29:22 monster::mindex(), rather 03:29:48 Though I admit that I'm not even quite sure how to parse how "return (this - menv.buffer());" provides that answer 03:30:10 What does it mean to subtract a buffer from a monster? 03:30:46 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 03:31:25 operator overloading? 03:31:37 looks like some evil style there 03:31:48 Yes, there has to be some sort of overloading going on, but it's semantically opaque to me 03:33:08 i should look into operator overloading in c++ 03:33:32 that looks like it would be opaque to anyone 03:33:34 even in context 03:33:53 Actually, wait... I think that's actually pointer math 03:33:53 i like python's method, just add a __mul__(self, other) if want to overload * 03:34:09 __eq__(self, other) for == 03:34:11 and so on 03:34:20 menv.buffer() is a pointer to the start of the array, and this is a pointer to something IN the array 03:35:00 is the menv.buffer() pointer just for resetting an iterator? 03:35:15 or starting iteration 03:35:37 Well, that line of code "return (this - menv.buffer());" is the sole contents of monster::mindex() 03:35:40 this == a monster class instance? 03:35:41 ok 03:35:58 So it's probably supposed to subtract the monster from the start of the array and thus get an offset into the array 03:36:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:05 i am still sort of unfamiliar with the finer points of c++ classes 03:36:05 oh 03:36:08 But getting a negative implies that it is somehow BEFORE the array that it is in? 03:36:12 so it's like backwards or something 03:36:17 Which seems impossible, since I just referenced it via the array 03:36:20 maybe menv.buffer() - this 03:36:29 No, it works for everything else 03:36:34 Just not this one creature that I have conjurerd 03:36:48 It must somehow be being created invalidly 03:36:54 'this' is a pointer inside the buffer? 03:37:04 to the instance of the class in question 03:37:15 Well, it would be a pointer to the instance of monster itself, wouldn't it? 03:37:20 And all of them should be in the monster list 03:37:20 yes 03:37:23 right 03:37:26 Because where else would they be? 03:39:56 DracoOmega: have you tried running it in valgrind? 03:40:38 I honestly have no idea how to do this. My C++ dev setup is... kind of rudimentary 03:41:40 -!- bleak` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:09 do you develop on a system with coreutils and an acceptable command line? 03:42:16 basically, are you developing on windows :P 03:42:59 i use ctags and grep for navigating the code, and i should learn how to use gdb and valgrind 03:43:11 On windows. But worse, I don't even have any integration with my IDE, presently 03:43:37 It's basically a glorified text editor and I don't even know if there's a debugger installed somewhere or not 03:44:05 ah 03:44:17 well, my ide IS a text editor 03:44:35 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:37 oh ok, I don't think valgrind works on windows 03:44:50 DracoOmega: are you familar with linux? 03:44:57 you could make a linux VM 03:45:22 that would be my suggestion 03:45:27 I am familiar in that I am aware of its existence! But I extremely limited (and mostly frustrating) experience using it 03:45:32 ah 03:45:35 Many years back 03:45:56 was it the interface itself or trouble with installing/configuration 03:46:26 the crawl docs probably have some info about testing with gdb and valgrind 03:46:26 Interface, I think. I honestly don't remember it well. It's just that some of the computers in a shared computer room in my old dorm at the start of my undergrad were linux 03:46:29 (i hope?) 03:46:33 ah 03:46:45 well, you could do most stuff through the gui still 03:46:46 git 03:46:53 there are decent gui text editors 03:47:01 Well, I'm not even using a gui for git here :P 03:47:06 i'm unsure if valgrind has a gui frontend 03:47:19 well, if you're using git cli, you can handle linux :P 03:47:28 Yes, command-line stuff is not itself an issue 03:47:42 Mostly I haven't gotten a better setup for C++ dev here due to intertia and mostly not having needed it 03:47:44 well, download virtualbox, grab a debian iso, and install it 03:47:58 I'm not actually on my own computer at the moment, though (out of town for the holidays) 03:48:02 alright 03:48:19 well, i can walk you through a basic linux vm setup with the packages you'll need 03:48:35 mostly build-essential and ctags-exuberant, and an editor that can use them 03:48:47 Valgrind is a profiler, right? 03:48:48 just let me know when you're home 03:48:53 i believe so 03:49:07 Surely there has to be a decent one for windows. It seems a fairly narrow reason to adjust to a whole new environment 03:49:11 i'm in a hotel room atm, i would guess lots of us aren't home right now 03:49:12 ...though getting stack traces WOULD be nice 03:49:24 Why DO crash dumps on Windows not give stack traces? 03:49:26 well, i would guess visual studio express would have something 03:49:58 i really have no idea about windows dev, since i learned and switched to linux/os x a couple weeks after i started programming 03:50:13 possibly someone else could help you out here 03:51:01 you could even run the VM in the background and just ssh into it 03:51:14 It just seems sort of strange that they do not. I mean, it doesn't seem like it's a platform limitation that windows can never give a stack trace 03:51:29 possibly cygwin would allow you to compile valgrind on windows yourself 03:51:35 This sort of feels like a question kilobyte might know the answer to, though 03:51:45 are you compiling with the cygwin gcc? 03:52:19 Whatever came with mysysgit 03:52:23 ah 03:52:27 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:37 is there a flag to enable stack traces? 03:52:54 well, i guess you are just typing 'make' 03:52:56 never mind 03:52:57 Yes 03:53:04 The Crawl makefile is scary 03:53:18 i bet 03:53:59 It is one of those things I am glad that I do not have to understand 03:54:08 I mean, understanding things is great, but sometimes.... >.> 03:57:37 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:38 -!- wasd22_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:47 abandon hope all ye who enter here 03:59:15 was scrawled on the side of the Chemical Bank 04:00:23 (the first sentence of american psycho, along with being in dante's inferno) 04:03:55 -!- enigmoo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:05:11 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:14:26 -!- gloop_ is now known as gloop 04:15:15 -!- aleksil has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:18:10 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:15 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:14 Aw, dammit 04:32:18 I found the problem and it is stupid 04:32:35 I blame Java 04:33:25 Because I failed to notice that I was copying an object into local space, rather than just keeping a reference to it >.> 04:34:09 And since Crawl determines its ID via pointer math, of course it would cause it to create a garbage answer 04:49:05 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:16 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1426-g7f04164 05:03:11 -!- keszocze has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:05:02 whoever the 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peer] 08:17:47 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:07 -!- ketsa has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:19:19 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:52 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:23:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:31 -!- Galefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:25:35 -!- animegra1pa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:31:08 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:24 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:33:47 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:34:28 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:20 -!- Galefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:35:54 -!- aleksil has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:27 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:00 -!- dfg__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:54:34 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:16 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:00:42 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:00:59 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:45 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:07:52 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:08:52 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:11:39 starcursed masses should probably be a brighter colour, they are somewhat hard to see on blue 09:12:08 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:29 it's kind of important you notice them I'd say 09:12:38 That is a fair point. I just picked blue because the tile is blue 09:13:00 A less important consideration than threat visibility 09:15:20 anything on lightblue X? 09:16:34 Aren't starspawn? 09:16:39 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:04 they've got lightcyan 09:17:09 Oh, okay 09:17:14 (Not sure what the difference is) 09:17:40 well, if you're using some form of console irc client: 09:17:54 ufetubus (115) | Spd: 15 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 5, 5 | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4), 02cold, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 8 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 09:17:54 %??ufetubus 09:18:02 sixfirhy (124) | Spd: 40 (move: 60%) | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 2/20 | Dam: 1511(elec:7-9) | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(56), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 506 | Sz: little | Int: normal. 09:18:02 %??sixfirhy 09:18:13 starcursed mass (02x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 127-174 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Dam: 16 | 11non-living, see invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(96), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1751 | Sz: Huge | Int: animal. 09:18:13 %??starcursed mass 09:18:36 -!- jiero has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:39 can make out the 4 a lot easier then the x 09:18:42 That sixfirhy and starcursed mass look pretty similar here 09:18:49 But that doesn't mean much 09:19:20 I am not a console player, so I'm quite willing to go along with whatever one thinks is best when it comes to color and glyphs 09:21:56 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 09:22:58 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:23:04 oh, i suppose those silly large aboms take up a lot of the X colors 09:23:23 large aboms and kraken colours were restricted for this sort of thing 09:23:26 remove cyan/light blue from the large abom possible color table and make starcursed mass X 09:23:32 oh 09:23:34 like large aboms are only lightred? 09:23:40 not sure about kraken though 09:23:41 i was just guessing that they had lots of colors 09:23:58 darkblue is the worst monster color 09:24:08 if you want to upset people, make it a darkblue X :P 09:24:09 ah, kraken is lightgreen, lightblue, red, lightmagenta 09:24:23 krakens don't need 4 colors, steal one of those 09:24:26 ...bah, that's taking up lightblue 09:25:20 well, we could give krakens cyan in exchange for lightblue as a potential colour so people mentally assoicated them starspawn and krakens 09:25:36 arent cyan and lightblue the same thing 09:25:41 i assume crawl uses 16 colors 09:26:15 vault guard (10@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 52-95 | AC/EV: 1/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(52) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1377 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 09:26:15 %??vault guard 09:26:42 what is there really no lightblue @ for direct comparsion bah 09:27:22 whatever color [\1;34\]this is [\1;34\] 09:27:27 i guess that didn't work 09:27:41 aha 09:27:45 pale draconian (10d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 82-114 | AC/EV: 9/14 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), steam | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1601 | Sp: steam ball (3d18) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 09:27:45 %??pale draconian 09:27:48 <|amethyst> faze: red, green, brown, blue, magenta, cyan, lightgrey, and light versions of each 09:27:49 yellow draconian annihilator (12d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 71-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(85), 08acid | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1989 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5); b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 09:27:49 %??draconian annihilator 09:27:53 right 09:27:58 10cyan 09:28:02 there, those are not the same colour d 09:28:03 11light cyan? 09:28:18 i have solarized in this terminal session 09:28:23 |amethyst: darkgray! 09:28:26 so i have no idea what these colors really are 09:28:42 magic(37) and magic(85) are magenta for me 09:28:52 6maybe this color? 09:28:53 yes 09:29:10 i guess they are defined magenta in the bot output 09:29:24 <|amethyst> yeah, I omitted black because we don't give that to monsters (and darkgrey only rarely) 09:29:29 right 09:29:42 12 light blue 09:29:43 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 09:30:08 murmur murmur elemental colours murmur murmur 09:30:09 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 09:30:18 <|amethyst> @??demonspawn 09:30:18 demonspawn (14@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 130 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 09:30:25 vampire bat (14b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 3 | HP: 6-15 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 305(vampiric) | 07undead, evil, sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(4), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 56 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 09:30:25 %??vampire bat 09:30:29 felid (14h) | Spd: 11 | HD: 5 | HP: 10-25 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 10 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 113 | Sz: little | Int: high. 09:30:29 %??felid 09:30:30 12+ blinking light blue 09:30:33 hmm, maybe not :P 09:31:24 11,12maybe this 09:31:28 never mind 09:31:43 2hi 09:31:59 I like how mutagenic is the same colour as warp, unholy is the same as blood, and decay is right beside earth bar weights 09:33:00 <|amethyst> unholy and bloood have different weights too 09:43:40 whoops, misread bloooooood 09:44:03 are the different weights noticable in practice 09:44:43 well 1 : 1 v 2 : 1 09:44:52 still bad since darkgray elemental colour 09:45:13 did test spawners always appear on ?/M 09:46:42 at least darkgrey is kinda distinctive...what's bad is when an elemental-coloured monster is the same as some other monster e.g. the dis serpent of hell looking like an iron dragon or a bone dragon(which doesn't even have a ranged attack...i've died to this!!!) 09:47:31 well monster list 09:47:44 tiles_reasons too 09:47:53 also messages 09:48:03 (elemental colours are still bleh anyway) 09:48:32 what if monster list was full! 09:49:17 hugeterm_r 09:49:26 okay I can't say that in good conscious 10:01:06 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:10 -!- Galefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:08:23 jelly (04J) | Spd: 9 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-30 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 808(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 22 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 10:08:23 <|amethyst> %0.11?jelly 10:08:32 jelly (04J) | Spd: 9 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-30 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 808(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 22 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 10:08:32 <|amethyst> %0.10?jelly 10:08:56 when are they becoming speed 8 or becoming speed 10 but with lower hp and damage 10:09:43 <|amethyst> hm.. should I apply a22bb095 (Make monster rAcid into immunity) to 0.11? 10:16:14 <|amethyst> I think I will 10:19:09 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.11 10:20:43 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:43 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Pacra] 10:27:57 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:48 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:56 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:08 -!- tsohg_ is now known as tsohg 10:42:31 -!- squid_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:32 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 10:44:10 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:44 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:47 -!- tsohg_ is now known as tsohg 10:56:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:57:59 -!- Zilean is now known as willster22 10:58:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:55 -!- willster22 is now known as Zilean 11:05:02 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:01 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:49 -!- Zilean has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:01 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:09:40 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:13:24 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 11:17:59 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:18:08 -!- tsohg_ is now known as tsohg 11:21:51 -!- Stelpa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:56 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:52 Separate spell bar (at the bottom maybe) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6469) by ZiMMy 11:33:59 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:41:46 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:57 -!- tsohg_ is now known as tsohg 11:43:10 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:52:55 -!- thatguy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:53:12 -!- aleksil has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:57:31 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:57:47 -!- TEMPTROG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59:19 -!- haqe17 has quit [Quit: NNnNNnnNnN] 12:04:27 -!- _D_ has quit [Client Quit] 12:14:01 -!- swarmer has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:16:15 DracoOmega, faze: there is no fundamental reason for stack traces to not work on Windows -- this can be done, just someone would need to investigate that 12:17:50 on the other hand, there's no valgrind for Windows. Looking around, I see folks say that you can valgrind Windows programs by running them under wine on Linux, but that's not what you want (although it's an interesting thing to know) 12:18:43 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:54 faze: dark blue tends to be really hard to see, especially on old CRT monitors. LCDs are a lot better, but it's still the hardest colour. 12:19:22 merry christmas and happy days off 12:19:23 -!- casmith790 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:20:21 lexackson: and happy new b'ak'tun! :p 12:20:33 haha 12:21:07 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:22:02 faze: it's mostly because of physics: human eye can see blue helluva worse than other colours at the same level of light energy, so especially dark blue would need to be really bright to be easy to see. Lemme find the graph... 12:30:22 looks like only 2% of cone cells are sensitive to blue; some version of the sensitivity graph: http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/light/u12l2b2.gif 12:31:10 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 12:31:59 -!- tkappleton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:02 and as for vampire bats and felids being dark gray: neither were supposed to ever spawn in the game (baring at most the "species jail" entry vault). Also, I wanted to preserve status quo for Vp using their bat form ability, which was shown in dark grey. 12:32:27 but once a monster exists, people start using it in vaults 12:33:29 octopodes are safe so far... 12:34:51 @??octopode 12:34:51 octopode (11x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 28-56 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 20, 403(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 227 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:34:56 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:57 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:35:24 X and x started to get pretty stuffed recently 12:39:57 I've used octopodes like three or four times, they're pretty passable as is as enemies 12:40:15 helps to actually preset non-garbage nonoverpowered stats 12:43:13 also reminded of evilmike's double-evil pairing of death drakes and execs 12:46:36 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:47:42 no one statted them 12:49:00 -!- PiMastah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:49:34 exactly 12:50:01 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:17 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:10 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:58:15 octopodes also exist as shapeshifters 12:59:18 anyway basically any colour would be better for masses so whatever works 13:10:19 -!- keke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:12:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:54 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 13:26:43 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:41:28 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:21 -!- gloop has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:49 kilobyte: let's take Q for horrors 13:46:19 < helsbecter> new abyss monsters >:( 13:46:22 from goon crawl irc 13:46:27 someone's doing something right 13:47:57 well, lurking horrors and ancient zymes are essentially and purposefully annoyances as indirect killers 13:48:15 and starspawn/starcursed have giant piles of hp 13:48:47 -!- mamga has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:17 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:17 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Excess Flood] 13:51:07 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:31 anQcient zymes, starQursed 13:51:32 it works 13:52:40 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Changing host] 13:52:41 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:01 it will never get MarvinPA's support, with his Qriffons and HippoQreaves 13:53:40 we should add hippos to crawl 13:53:46 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:51 swamp? 13:54:07 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:07 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Excess Flood] 13:54:37 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:38 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Excess Flood] 13:57:48 yeas 14:00:16 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:07:28 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:08:51 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:19 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:56 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 14:16:52 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:55 This other BH guy is going to get sick of getting ghostes 14:18:04 -!- Villadelfia has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:30 -!- bh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:52 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:21 Hmm did I ghost myself? 14:24:40 no 14:26:50 -!- Villadelfia has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:27:03 We don't do holiday Easter eggs? 14:27:27 founder's day 14:30:24 A Z named "Jesus" might not go over 14:32:49 -!- Villadelfia_ is now known as Villadelfia 14:33:13 we did april fool's that's a holiday enough 14:35:29 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:36:05 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:42 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:22 it is going to be hard to top the unofficial accidental april fool's thing though 14:52:22 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:47 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:03:39 -!- ponies_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:12 -!- Dixbert_ is now known as Dixbert 15:07:48 -!- helsbecter has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:08:53 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:14:50 -!- helsbecter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:18:41 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:29:25 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 15:30:44 -!- ponies_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:08 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:53 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 15:36:56 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:08 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:38:17 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:42:11 -!- ponies_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:43:14 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:43 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:14 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:07:23 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13:14 -!- ponies_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:50 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:19:39 -!- NeremWorld has quit [] 16:22:57 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:49 -!- Crazylemon64 has quit [Quit: Crazylemon64] 16:24:47 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:38 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:25:50 -!- ponies_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:40:48 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:02 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:35 -!- Letchik has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:23 I installed latest version of crawl trunk and it crashes if I specify morgue_dir and save_dir in init.txt 16:45:26 What to do? 16:45:45 It worked in previous version 16:46:15 Now the game window opens, I see the logo picture and the game window closes 16:47:13 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:53 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:48:04 Actually it works with morgue_dir 16:48:10 but save_dir breaks crawl 16:48:24 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:01 Letchik: Could you file a bug on mantis? It's probably your best bet for getting a good response (particularly given that it's Christmas in most places) 16:49:04 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:49:16 -!- Galefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:49:23 bh: ok 16:49:39 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:44 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:03 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:58:27 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:46 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:31 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:11 The game window closes at the loading screen if save_dir is set to some folders (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6470) by Letchik 17:04:03 Letchik: thanks. Hopefully someone who understands the windows build will take a look 17:06:47 -!- ponies_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:57 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:02 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:08 -!- ponies has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:54 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:11:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:14:26 -!- Wehk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:19 -!- gomer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:22 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:58 -!- quazi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:20 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:31:03 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:43 -!- User__ is now known as Xenobreeder 17:33:11 -!- Galefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:34:25 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:34:48 -!- Vizer_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:57 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:38:02 Letchik: are you running the game as administrator? if not, does crawl have writing permissions for the folders you set (probably it doesnt)? 17:39:40 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:56 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:41 -!- Vizer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:56 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:32 -!- minced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:50:27 -!- ponies_ has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 17:59:01 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:03 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 18:04:12 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:10 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 18:19:39 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:05 -!- Isvaffl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:16 -!- Zilean has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36:58 -!- theclam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:40:26 alefury: No, i'm not running the game as administrator. I think crawl has permissions (I don't see why it shouldn't, it's a common folder) 18:40:56 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:41:17 programs in windows vista onwards dont have writing access to most folders when not running as administrator 18:41:32 they can just write in some shitty appdata folders and the like 18:41:42 not even in their own folder 18:42:28 try running crawl as administrator, if that works folder permissions are probably the problem 18:43:13 Previous version of crawl could write to that folder 18:43:17 alefury: 18:43:35 oh, thats weird 18:44:07 alefury: windows :( 18:44:18 I ran crawl with administrator rights 18:44:20 it still closed 18:44:47 still Permission denied 18:45:36 Actually for previous version it wasn't the same folder 18:45:53 folder for previous version was Dropbox/crawl/%previous-version%/saves 18:46:08 and for this version I created Dropbox/crawl/%this-version%/saves 18:46:41 maybe post that you tried running as administrator in the mantis issue 18:46:55 so you dont get the same response there that i just gave you :P 18:47:08 other than that i dont think i can help you, no idea whats going on :( 18:47:24 Did that 18:47:43 the only thing left i can thing of is that the folder is actually write-protected for some reason 18:48:13 like if its on a flashdrive with a write protection switch 18:48:35 No 18:48:38 just hard drive 18:49:00 <|amethyst> if you tell it to use %previous-version%/saves in the new version, does it work? 18:49:25 I already deleted previous version saves folder 18:49:46 -!- st_ has quit [] 18:49:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:03 <|amethyst> what if you point the old version at the new folder? 18:50:41 <|amethyst> that would tell for sure whether the problem is in the crawl version or in the location 18:50:55 <|amethyst> s/for sure // 18:51:01 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:57 no 18:52:00 doesn't work 18:52:14 <|amethyst> hm... I don't know anything about dropbox permissions 18:52:28 There shouldn't be any special permissions 18:52:56 <|amethyst> how did you make the directory? through the Dropbox/ mount point or via the web interface? 18:53:06 Through windows explorer 18:53:23 <|amethyst> If you make something under your profile directory and point it at that, does it work? 18:53:38 <|amethyst> or a flash drive etc 18:54:07 Doesn't work on drive L outside Dropbox directory too 18:54:38 <|amethyst> drive L being a flash drive 18:54:41 <|amethyst> ? 18:55:03 no 18:55:05 hard drive 18:55:33 <|amethyst> are you administrator when creating these directories? Who owns them? 18:55:42 I am not 18:55:46 Uhm 18:55:53 I am just under my profile when creating them 18:56:09 <|amethyst> and explorer verifies that they are owned by you? 18:56:47 How do I see that? 18:57:02 <|amethyst> can't remember, let me boot up my Windows machine 18:57:08 <|amethyst> you're using Windows 7? 18:57:11 Win 8 18:57:25 <|amethyst> hopefully it hasn't moved then 18:57:40 In rightclick - security 18:57:47 There are groups and users 18:58:12 <|amethyst> who's listed there? 18:58:31 That's hard to tell in english bec my OS is not in english 18:58:53 <|amethyst> here, it's SYSTEM, neil, Administrators 18:58:58 <|amethyst> where "neil" is my user name 18:59:20 but I guess they are: 18:59:20 Tested (or verified or checked) 18:59:20 SYSTEM 18:59:20 Administrators (my_username\Administrators) 18:59:20 Users (my_username\Users) 18:59:25 <|amethyst> well, neil (soros\neil) and Administrators (soros\Administrators) 19:00:00 <|amethyst> Letchik: if you click on Users, what do the permissions say? 19:00:12 Users (my_username\Users) has permissions for read and execute, list of files in dir, read 19:00:21 <|amethyst> and Administrators? 19:00:34 everything except special permissions 19:01:40 <|amethyst> Letchik: is there an "Advanced" button? if so, click on it and check the Owner tab 19:02:14 The owner's name consists of a letter and a lot of numbers and dashes between them 19:02:25 <|amethyst> oh, hm 19:03:14 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:15 <|amethyst> try giving Modify and Write to Users perhaps? 19:04:10 doesn't work 19:04:23 wait 19:04:51 no 19:04:52 doesn't work 19:05:00 <|amethyst> hrm 19:05:09 can't create data file cache permission denied 19:05:26 <|amethyst> unfortuately, that's the limit of my Windows access control knowledge 19:05:42 <|amethyst> I don't know how to see what credentials crawl is using to access the file 19:06:03 I wonder how is it so that other programs work fine with those files 19:06:06 and crawl doesn't 19:06:29 Also previously it worked fine 19:06:36 Idk, i'll go try reboot computer 19:06:41 <|amethyst> I'm guessing crawl is running with some funny privileges, but like I said I don't really know this stuff in Windows 19:07:00 -!- Letchik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:57 -!- phirt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:04 "Try turning it off and then on again." 19:08:31 -!- Letchik has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:43 Nope, reboot didn't help 19:09:41 <|amethyst> bh: "Jiggle the handle." 19:09:47 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:47 -!- bleak` is now known as bleak 19:13:12 <|amethyst> Letchik: I'll repeat the advice to file an "Issue" stating your problem and the steps you have tried on Mantis; there are devs who aren't here right now who know much more about Windows 8 than bh or I 19:13:28 |amethyst: he filed one on mantis :) 19:13:33 <|amethyst> oh good 19:13:36 <|amethyst> I missed it 19:13:45 |amethyst: what are we paying you for!? 19:14:28 <|amethyst> Letchik: maybe add a note with the permissions, and also what you changed and that it still didn't work 19:15:17 <|amethyst> bh: to run the bot, not listen to it :) 19:17:33 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:20:34 -!- alheris has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:44 -!- Rebthor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:10 -!- sbanwart has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:24:31 |amethyst: bad ideas: I'm going to try to implement perlin noise. 19:25:06 -!- jiero has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:00 -!- eb has quit [] 19:29:37 -!- Datul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:00 -!- alheris has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:11 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 19:32:00 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44:12 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:45:58 -!- Danei has quit [] 19:53:58 -!- rkd has quit [] 19:57:30 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:03:59 -!- gomer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:11:28 -!- Letchik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:11:47 -!- Dixbert_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:15 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:12 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:17:54 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:12 -!- Letchik has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:12 Warn on berserking with Rod equipped (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6471) by battaile 20:30:42 what's wrong with that? You can still bash someone's brains with a rod? 20:31:16 <|amethyst> Maybe it should warn you if you have an !a weapon wielded 20:31:35 I'll update the bug :) 20:31:48 bh: you can but it's a really bad weapon 20:31:51 so you probably don't want to 20:31:59 <|amethyst> so's a club 20:32:03 -!- Nexos_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:08 yes but you have no reason to swap to a club later on 20:32:12 you do have a reason to swap to rods 20:32:17 elliott: are rods auto-inscribed !a? 20:32:25 I don't think so 20:32:38 probably rods should just be clumsily bashing non-weapons? 20:32:51 and then just a warning when berserking with a non-weapon 20:33:04 <|amethyst> elliott: ashenzari nerf 20:36:33 |amethyst: plenty of people play ash without cursing their weapon 20:36:45 <|amethyst> true, especially if the weapon is a rod 20:36:47 if you are going berserk ever then cursing a rod sounds really bad because at best you are going to be bashing things with a +9 club :P 20:36:59 also most races can't butcher that way 20:37:13 so it might actually be sort of an ashenzari buff because people will be less tempted do this! 20:38:01 I think we agree that !a weapons should warn you on berserk. If rods shouldn't be !a, then why should they be special? 20:38:36 <|amethyst> I think rods should be !a, but I'm wary of adding auto-inscriptions 20:38:40 well idly tabbing an orc while walking around with your rod is different to going berserk with it 20:38:59 since you can probably swap at any time in the former case 20:39:03 guess we need a new inscription! :) 20:39:21 I guess it'd be bad to make rods non-weapons because you'd have to swap constantly for e.g. toadstools 20:39:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:43 elliott: can you toadstool bash with a deck? 20:40:07 no idea but I guess not 20:40:20 <|amethyst> elliott: I always forget and mark my rods !a when I discover I've been accidentally attacking with them 20:41:16 <|amethyst> as bh suggests, a new inscription that is implied by !a then... what else would be affected other than berserk? 20:41:59 just making rods non-weapons again still sounds simplest to mee 20:41:59 can anything else make your weapon unswappable by choice 20:42:00 me* 20:42:07 other than dumb things like reading curse weapon 20:42:09 or quaffing paralysis 20:42:19 <|amethyst> elliott: killing mummies? 20:42:36 change them from rods into orbs 20:42:38 crawl needs more orbs 20:42:49 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: doesn't solve the problem really... what about staff of channelling? 20:43:04 prompt to kill a mummy sounds kind of annoying :P 20:43:50 elliott: I think we'll need to rename curse weapon to 'curse thing in your hand' ;) 20:43:53 well at least the staff of channeling is just a bad weapon that doesn't pretend to not be a bad weapon 20:43:53 <|amethyst> elliott: and if it only asked on the killing blow, it would make it that much easier to farm the killing blows off to summons 20:44:16 rods are particularly awkward because you enchant them with recharging and somehow that makes them better melee weapons except that still doesn't matter because they're still terrible melee weapons... 20:45:29 give rods eveningstar stars 20:45:32 er, stats 20:45:32 <|amethyst> give Ijyb a guaranteed +9,+9 club 20:45:54 |amethyst: erm... I don't agree that making the interface better (under the assumption that this is an improvement) is a bad thing because bad mechanics exist 20:46:02 ??+12 whip 20:46:02 12 whip[1/1]: bh the Thaumaturge (L10 DEWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, mangled by a minotaur (the +12,+6 whip of Success {drain}) in Lab, with 6608 points 20:46:11 I hate bad weapons. 20:46:28 <|amethyst> elliott: well, "killing blow" leaks information, unless you use some sort of heuristic that's wrong sometimes 20:46:32 |amethyst: bad for the tedious practice of summoning against mummies to be made even more painful because you have to carefully check every turn 20:46:40 oh, sure, leaking information there would be bad 20:46:46 you can leak whether a hit *could* kill the mummy though 20:46:59 <|amethyst> ignoring unknown weapon plusses, rings, ... 20:47:05 which doesn't really leak any information. it'd be incredibly annoying of course but this prompt would be incredibly annoying anyway so it doesn't matter 20:47:17 let's just remove rods! 20:47:22 anyway I'm starting to agree with MarvinPA 20:47:24 yes, let's 20:47:25 also mummies 20:47:36 <|amethyst> I guess no one's going to scum identifies out of mummy kills 20:47:46 mummy curses are awesome apart from the 'glue stuff to you' part 20:47:54 |amethyst: sounds like a challenge 20:50:25 <|amethyst> so the suggestion is rods not be melee weapons, staves continue to be, and anything about inscriptions be dealt with separately? 20:50:53 making non-enhancer staves non-melee weapons seems reasonable though it's weidr 20:51:08 <|amethyst> elliott: I think not so reasonable to implement 20:51:17 yeah it sounds like a pain 20:51:35 clearly the non-berserking inscription should be {!killdudes} 20:51:49 <|amethyst> even some of the enhancer staves are lame in melee 20:51:53 <|amethyst> summoning 20:52:11 <|amethyst> FR: staff of transmutation 20:52:32 poly on hit 20:52:33 |amethyst: it would… meld? 20:52:47 Eronarn: stop being so polynormative! 20:52:51 <|amethyst> degeneration on melee 20:52:56 ugh 20:53:00 <|amethyst> everything I touch turns to flesh 20:53:07 <|amethyst> meat midas 20:53:08 fr midas weapon 20:53:14 that turns enemies into gold when they die 20:53:18 {contam} 20:53:23 elliott: hello zin 20:53:30 <|amethyst> I think my suggestion to that effect was shot down 20:53:35 {contam, recurse} 20:53:35 bh: zinergy. sounds good!! 20:53:41 <|amethyst> something midas-related anyway 20:53:41 saltify on hit 20:53:41 contam and recurse are kind of redundant :P 20:54:10 wouldn't Zin hate the shit out a {contam} weapon? 20:54:16 yes 20:54:25 right 20:54:29 so this balances how you get zin piety for gold 20:54:34 my design is perfect 20:54:42 you could gold your enemies, not pick up the gold and collect it later 20:55:04 -!- jiero has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:31 zin isn't too pleased about gold you found beforehand 20:56:39 unless you're proposing to stay with zin while using the contam weapon 20:57:41 fr goldify ability 20:58:05 elliott: 1. Kill stuff with the Midassword 2. Leave the gold on the floor. 3. Convert to Zin. 4. Collect gold 20:58:17 BlastHardcheese: 'aurora' 20:58:38 you don't get piety for gold that you had already seen before converting to zin 20:58:53 bh: doesn't work 20:59:02 0: blind self 20:59:26 <|amethyst> bh: "A story of redemption... and deposit" 20:59:55 works for me. 21:00:04 also "you can kill a bunch of enemies for a lot of zin piety sometime in the far future (n.b. doesn't work while worshipping zin) and also you have to get contaminated to do it" is like the least appealing secret tech ever 21:03:34 <|amethyst> elliott: bah, no concept of plot or character development 21:03:55 <|amethyst> FR: cutscenes 21:04:22 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:02 need more main characters for that 21:05:08 cutscene when you kill a panlord would be cool 21:05:16 zooms in on a big ascii art @ (or player species glyph) and & 21:05:22 <|amethyst> cutscene on reaching the temple 21:05:41 <|amethyst> anything that would give a milestone 21:05:50 kill sigmund and he reveals in a cutscene he was only trying to save people by scaring them away from the deadly dungeon 21:06:06 |amethyst: Crawl the Musical 21:06:40 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Kicked by KickServ] 21:25:45 Artefact missing in item search (Ctrl+F) and another one gets duplicated (shop items) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6472) by kurzedmetal 21:25:51 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 21:30:31 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:57 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: Sigmund reminds me of a Scooby-Doo villain for some reason 21:32:52 <|amethyst> It's really the janitor wearing a fake beard 21:34:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:48 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:34:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 21:38:02 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:38:08 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:39:16 -!- Krag has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:39:36 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:47:55 -!- mamga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:59 -!- mamga has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:44 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:57:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 21:57:29 -!- wasd22_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:58:46 |amethyst: I think Venture Bros does a Scooby-Doo parody where the team just shoots the monsters 22:02:06 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:18 -!- Stelpa_ has quit [Quit: Butts] 22:07:30 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 22:12:07 -!- y2s82 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:15:29 -!- ToastyP_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:33:54 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:02 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:12 -!- Zifmia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:40 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:40:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:16 -!- jiero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:07 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:24 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:55:28 -!- Zilean has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:01 -!- Zileas is now known as Zilean 23:04:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:27 <|amethyst> !tell ontoclasm /msg me when you're around 23:15:28 |amethyst: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 23:18:58 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:17 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:20:46 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:12 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:29 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:07 -!- Jayrays has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:07 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:02 -!- Zifmia_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:51 -!- Zifmia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:49 -!- Letchik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:10 -!- Zifmia__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:46 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:44 -!- geekosaur has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:37:12 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 23:38:48 -!- jiero has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:54:24 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 23:56:47 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:13 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection]