00:00:42 <Sizzell> Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11.0-38-g95810b5
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00:05:56 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1001-gd2f4c47 (34)
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01:14:37 <Cheibriados> 03HangedMan 07* 0.12-a0-1002-g4aed62e: Edits for HangedMan's vaults. 10(5 hours ago, 9 files, 421+ 458-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4aed62e7d6fd
01:14:37 <Cheibriados> 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-1003-g05ebfbe: Levitation -> flight in wizlab_golubria. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=05ebfbeb391f
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04:54:54 <edlothiol> this is just great
04:55:26 <edlothiol> #6340 only occurs when crawl is compiled with optimizations
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04:57:46 <edlothiol> looks like stack corruption or something like that, but valgrind reports nothing apart from the invalid read that makes it crash
04:58:31 <edlothiol> well, that's probably to be expected
05:00:04 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-1003-g05ebfbe
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05:20:02 <dpegone> nice commits!
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06:17:55 <kilobyte> I think "boots of flying" would sound better than "boots of flight".
06:18:14 <kilobyte> consistent with "running"
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06:24:01 <kilobyte> also, I think the evocation of these boots should be reversed: you'd go up the moment you wear/unmeld them, landing only when around titans
06:24:37 <kilobyte> heck, it could be automated: if the flight is disabled and you try to walk into lava, you automatically go up, then land back on the other side
06:34:05 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1004-gf264353: Manual updates from the wiki. 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 33+ 50-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f264353210f1
06:34:05 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1005-g152db79: Convert a number of stray references to levitation. 10(6 minutes ago, 12 files, 21+ 23-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=152db799b72d
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06:35:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
06:35:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is back, in time for tournament play! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious!
06:40:00 <elliptic> kilobyte: agreed about flying > flight. About the other stuff, what do you think of just making all sources of permaflight uncancellable and always-on?
06:41:25 <kilobyte> I was about to propose going the other way: getting rid of uncancellable flight, as theme-wise you can just keep touching the ground
06:41:55 <kilobyte> if the idea above of being able to temporarily land goes in, these two become identical
06:42:43 <elliptic> if airstrike is the only concern, we can just remove the extra damage from airstrike against "flying" players over solid ground
06:43:28 <kilobyte> hmm, right
06:43:57 <kilobyte> the only other difference is mechanical traps
06:44:52 <elliptic> it sounds like you are suggesting only making the "Fly" status show up if the player is actually over lava/water? this sounds good except that flight has other benefits (traps, tiny stealth bonus, tengu boosts)
06:45:17 <kilobyte> a Beoghite wanting to preserve his orcs by blundering into traps himself to detect them and take damage from own hp is pretty obscure
06:45:36 <elliptic> I'd say so, yes :P
06:46:09 <kilobyte> elliptic: what I suggested was a toggleable flag, whether to walk or fly when you have a choice, but your idea seems simpler
06:46:49 <kilobyte> the stealth bonus is negligible, actually worse than elven boots or boots of stealth
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06:47:50 <dpeg> simplification here sounds good
06:48:12 <dpeg> elliptic, kilobyte: so "flight" would mean "take whatever is better out of flying and not flying"?
06:49:01 <kilobyte> dpeg: there is exactly one reason to not fly: airstrike
06:50:03 <kilobyte> so it's a no-brainer except for the tengu EV/speed boost next to titans
06:50:21 <kilobyte> (and mechanical traps, but you know how much love there is for them :p)
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07:11:17 <dpeg> kilobyte: there are more airstrikers, for example that slug unique
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07:12:18 <kilobyte> !lm * uniq=gastronok race=tengu s=xl
07:12:26 <Sequell> 290 milestones for * (uniq=gastronok race=tengu s=xl): 66x 12, 55x 10, 47x 11, 39x 14, 32x 13, 27x 9, 12x 15, 4x 18, 2x 20, 2x 23, 2x 8, 16, 22
07:12:43 <kilobyte> !lm * uniq=gastronok race=tengu xl>=15 s=xl
07:12:43 <Sequell> 22 milestones for * (uniq=gastronok race=tengu xl>=15 s=xl): 12x 15, 4x 18, 2x 23, 2x 20, 22, 16
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07:44:45 <kilobyte> not sure what to do then... if there's no solution, I'd at least implement auto-fly over lava
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07:51:42 <dpeg> kilobyte: always take the better effect: fly over water/lava no matter what; don't fly with airstrikers around
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07:52:35 <kilobyte> but what if you want to run from an airstriker?
08:02:02 <st_> what's wrong with just having airstrikes be bad for tengus?
08:02:18 <st_> people can take off their flying boots for V:8 otherwise
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08:23:07 <Eronarn> can we actually get rid of beogh water walking
08:23:15 <Eronarn> no real reason for it
08:23:29 <Eronarn> and now that lev doesn't exist, even less reason
08:24:44 <kilobyte> what's wrong with it?
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08:25:28 <dpeg> Eronarn: I think that water walking is good, for several reasons.
08:25:33 <dpeg> Occasionally, it is even useful.
08:25:49 <elliptic> also it causes hilarious deaths
08:26:35 <kilobyte> elliptic: that's the best reason :)
08:29:16 <Eronarn> kilobyte: there is nothing wrong with it but it is a weird random shoutout to jesus even though it doesn't make any thematic sense
08:29:17 <dpeg> kilobyte: to me, the biblical joke is the best reason... but there's no shortage of reasons :)
08:30:05 <Eronarn> it's a nethackism, just like knights being able to jump
08:30:09 <dpeg> Eronarn: back when we did Beogh, there was a lot of discussion how to explain "you're now the orc saviour". Ideas were a crown, and whatnot. But jpeg would have none of this. The water walking says everything without needing any words.
08:30:49 <dpeg> Eronarn: no, it is a mechanic that makes sense in-game and is an obvious reference for almost all players. Not to mention that almost everyone found it hilarious.
08:31:42 <Eronarn> it doesn't really make sense though beogh doesn't give any abilities anything like that
08:33:39 <faze> the 12 disciples couldn't walk on water either, and neither can 'orc priest #453'
08:33:58 <dpeg> faze: is that an argument pro or con?
08:34:13 <faze> i think water walking works well as is for the player character
08:34:46 <faze> it's a symbolic ability that adds a minor strategic advantage
08:35:09 <dpeg> faze: that is a good way to phrase it
08:35:22 <faze> i guess it has some tactical value too, but like elliptic said, hilarious deaths happen because of it, so it's worth keeping
08:35:51 <dpeg> Hint: the god of the Bible is schizophrenic and has, in a rare sane moment, been split into a number of Crawl gods. Traces of the biblical found can be found in Zin, TSO, Elyvilon and Beogh.
08:36:20 <faze> i like getting 'judas the orc priest'
08:36:26 <faze> i always watch that one closely
08:36:27 <kilobyte> ... and Okawaru, and Xom
08:36:33 <dpeg> kilobyte: Xom <3
08:36:59 <dpeg> faze: should have a Golgotha vault, eh?
08:37:00 <kilobyte> like when he ordered a census to be made, then sent a punishment for doing that very census
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08:37:27 <dpeg> kilobyte: that's right, proper Xommy behaviour right there... never saw that.
08:37:35 <dpeg> Also the story of Abraham.
08:37:45 <faze> dpeg: that might be a bit too literal :P
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08:38:09 <dpeg> faze: oh a vault where three poor souls are on their crosses, and you can spare two?
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08:38:14 <dpeg> oh = or
08:38:16 <faze> dpeg: i was just going to say, xom saying "hey, sacrifice your first-born child to me. LOL jk dude"
08:38:32 <faze> would be quite fitting
08:39:16 <dpeg> Even the Christians I asked found water walking funny, but I never got to know any of the hardcore evangelist types.
08:39:32 <dpeg> Not so many around in Europe...
08:40:58 <kilobyte> really, there is only one consistent rule the Old Testament god follows: if someone has been anointed, hurting him in any way, even in self defense, even if that person turned a traitor against own people, and even if that person started worshipping other gods, causes dire punishment
08:42:12 <dpeg> kilobyte: isn't there this webpage strenuously listing all the self-contradictions of the Holy Word?
08:42:31 <kryft> ##crawl-dev-exegesis
08:42:52 <dpeg> kryft: could use some Asian contributors
08:44:02 <kilobyte> dpeg: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ -- although quite a few of these are debatable
08:44:39 <kilobyte> and that's just contradictions, rather than funny moments, like that David's census in book of Samuel thingy
08:45:13 <dpeg> thanks
08:46:32 <kilobyte> reading the bible is quite tiresome, I'd really recommend reading The Brick Testament.  The guy who does it tends to highlight silliness.
08:47:03 <greensnark> The Last Testament is pretty good
08:47:13 <greensnark> Written by David Javerbaum and God
08:47:17 <kilobyte> the story is kept, yet you don't need to slog through weird language constructs
08:48:09 <dpeg> awesome references
08:48:18 <dpeg> greensnark: need more input from you on Indian stuff!
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08:48:32 <dpeg> read my Zelazny, as ordered =)
08:49:04 <greensnark> Nice :)
08:49:50 <kryft> Lord of Light?
08:49:55 <greensnark> Mahabharata is pretty good if you like that kind of thing
08:50:16 <greensnark> Just be aware that when the Mahabharata references the demonic asuras, they're referring to dark-skinned people :P
08:51:11 <dpeg> greensnark: just want to get a feeling for non-Christian religion. The scholarly texts focus on structure (names and duties of the deities and so on), but that does not give you a picture how the people live with it. For Christianity, I know from living here :)
08:51:35 <Eronarn> 'i can give lots of feedback about atheism'
08:51:57 <ghallberg> Eronarn: EVERYTHING IS WRONG
08:52:37 <dpeg> anyhow, work now -- thanks for book recommendations!
08:54:31 <Eronarn> we should make demigods nietzschean
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08:59:26 <greensnark> Demigods should be able to fight and destroy one of the existing gods and ascend to godhood
08:59:34 <greensnark> Full godhood, anyway
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09:03:41 <Eronarn> greensnark: this would work well with random gods
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09:17:49 <bhaak> dpeg: you lived in a heathen country, what do you know about christianity?!?
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09:45:59 <kek> might i convince a kind developer to commit this simple lua feature? :) https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6366
09:54:00 <phyphor> kilobyte: talking of anonitment, it basically shows murdering your brither as a blood sacrifice gets you annointed
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09:57:24 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1006-ga4c4993: Remove major healing from wizlab_tukima's strange machines 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4c4993394fb
09:57:24 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1007-g42ad6a4: De-rune some portal vault doors 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 10-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=42ad6a4366a5
09:57:24 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA 07* 0.12-a0-1008-g8b60bdd: Fix door colouring in some volcano subvaults 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8b60bdd72997
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10:38:08 <Gretell> TrombeMk4 (L13 DrEE) ASSERT(in_bounds(src_pos) || src_pos.origin()) in 'mon-behv.cc' at line 889 failed. (D:12)
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10:42:19 <elliott> kilobyte: thanks for fixing those remaining references to levitation... I tried to fix all the references in my patch but apparently my grepping wasn't thorough enough :)
10:42:19 <Wenzell> elliott: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
10:42:20 <Henzell> elliott: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
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11:19:17 <dpeg> bhaak: I lived in a heathen country, and I still do, but the heritage is all over the place. We didn't turn all our churches into repositories, factory outlets or dance halls!
11:19:41 <ghallberg> I wish we did...
11:19:49 <ghallberg> They're just standinga round looking cool.
11:19:57 <dpeg> greensnark: I have plans along these lines.
11:20:01 <dpeg> ghallberg: Where are you from?
11:20:05 <ghallberg> Sould be awesome to have clubs or consert halls in them.
11:20:07 <ghallberg> Sweden
11:20:12 <ghallberg> We don't have that many churches though.
11:20:28 <dpeg> It's in Norway where they have a tendency to burn, eh
11:20:30 <ghallberg> I was in Paris this weekend end there was a church on every street -_-
11:20:36 <ghallberg> mm yeah
11:20:45 <ghallberg> they built theirs from wood so...
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11:24:48 <dpeg> ghallberg: but it is a sad sight if you had churches on every corner (like in old parts of East Berlin) but they're just monuments... no active communities.
11:24:51 <dpeg> back later
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11:40:08 <bhaak> dpeg: it's different if you experience tales presented as museums and fairy tales or if you've been told that it's the truth :-)
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11:51:26 <dpeg> bhaak: thank god for that difference :)
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14:16:24 <Cheibriados> 03edlothiol 07* 0.12-a0-1009-g786430b: Fix a crash with draconians with shields in tiles (#6340, #6345). 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=786430b5b6a4
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20:02:28 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1010-g68196dc: Rename boots of flight to boots of flying. 10(13 hours ago, 19 files, 22+ 22-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=68196dc92f1c
20:02:28 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1011-gf383c04: Slightly flatten the carrying capacity formula. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f383c0479505
20:02:28 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1012-gdfb28a0: Fix an use-after-free crash. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dfb28a043234
20:02:28 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte 07* 0.12-a0-1013-gf04e3d2: Use Xom-specific messages instead of level 0 miscasts more often. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f04e3d2ad631
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20:02:48 <elliott> "plate armour of flying" is going to look really weird in that one sprint
20:03:18 <evilmike> elliott: well, its already a silly sprint-only thing, i'd say it's no big deal
20:05:05 <HangedMan> plate armour of levitation is already kind of silly
20:05:27 <kilobyte> apparently, it's not even used currently
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20:06:42 <kilobyte> %git 7300066
20:06:42 <Cheibriados> 03kilobyte * 0.10-a0-319-g7300066: Plate mails of levitation, for Mu's nefarious purposes. 10(1 year, 3 months ago, 5 files, 22+ 6-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=730006648f61
20:07:19 <HangedMan> a shame mu hasn't shown what those nerfarious purposes are fifteen months later
20:09:51 <Zannick> "nerfarious purposes"
20:09:52 <Zannick> nice typo
20:10:18 <kilobyte> heh yeah
20:10:19 <evilmike> his intent was to give it to monsters so they could levitate over stuff
20:10:22 <HangedMan> because they'll use airstrike against wiglaf
20:10:38 <evilmike> (at the time, monsters couldn't use rings, and they still can't use boots)
20:10:39 <MarvinPA> they can do that with rings now i guess
20:10:45 <MarvinPA> yeah
20:12:35 <elliott> huh, I never realised monsters can't use boots
20:12:54 <HangedMan> nikola uses gloves a shield, doesn't he
20:12:57 <HangedMan> as a
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20:13:28 <elliott> kilobyte: thank you for buffing low str
20:14:23 <Eronarn> winged helmet of flying
20:14:28 <Eronarn> someone do it
20:14:58 <kilobyte> Eronarn: :p
20:15:35 <elliott> btw -- should I have used a minor tags version thing for http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blobdiff;f=crawl-ref/source/tags.cc;h=394bbef176052ea92e3df7dbb6424032398d238c;hp=7cd840a6e669e22c196d624887168014a8fd985c;hb=4d198fdca39795ba784ef4a72ae78b1dc9643f14;hpb=c270398da9427573da54500ead6498ceb014de0b?
20:15:46 <elliott> not really sure when they should be used but it seems like it might have simplified stuff here maybe?
20:16:43 <elliott> (need to remove the ? there for that link to work...)
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20:18:36 <kilobyte> the code would be actually longer
20:19:02 <elliott> any less ugly? :P
20:19:17 <kilobyte> since you'd need to handle both sides of the #ifdef like currently, and then check the minor tag too
20:19:41 <elliott> ah
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20:21:19 <elliott> btw... all the translations for potions of levitation are of course not carried over to flight (since the description to translate is different)
20:21:24 <elliott> I guess they will just be re-translated over time?
20:21:56 <kilobyte> not sure how Transifex handles dirty translations
20:22:08 <kilobyte> or if it handles them at all...
20:22:28 <kilobyte> galehar is in bed, though
20:22:37 <elliott> I just removed the descriptions from the translated items.txt files in the patch... that may have been the wrong thing to do
20:22:45 <elliott> I don't really know how the Transifex stuff works at all :P
20:23:05 <kilobyte> (and so should be I...)
20:23:17 <kilobyte> yeah, let's ask him
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22:45:03 <Cheibriados> 03evilmike 07* 0.12-a0-1014-g82bdfc1: Miscellaneous vaults. (Lightli) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 149+ 0-) 13http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82bdfc15e69d
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23:19:28 <Henzell> ebarrett the Invulnerable (L27 HOAr)  (Zot:2)
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