00:00:06 He's on the list at the side, I thought that meant he was on 00:00:44 people on irc like to have clients idling in the channel for hours and hours without actually being present 00:00:47 it is traditional 00:00:47 he'll read the backlog, I assume, but most of the people in the user list are idle 00:02:00 Any guesses at when I should ask? 00:04:16 you should just idle here until you get a reply 00:04:26 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:04:41 or if you don't like that, sending an email to the c-r-d mailing list is always an option 00:04:58 <|amethyst> he seems to most often be on around ~19:00 to 24:00 UTC 00:05:14 <|amethyst> sometimes at other times 00:06:42 |amethyst: I'd like to see a ##crawl-dev timesheet along with local timezomes :) 00:08:34 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:57 Timezome. If Fedhas and Chei had a child. 00:10:55 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:admin:devteam lists locations 00:12:17 <|amethyst> you can parse the logs for the rest :P 00:12:22 -!- Mumcon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:12:56 I'll pass. 00:13:00 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 00:13:03 <|amethyst> Chei's timezone is US Central, but there are some logs from other timezones 00:13:24 |amethyst: I've gotten the abyss morph-after-save error rate down. A few more kinks and it should behave as expected. 00:16:32 Oh, if only Crawl crash logs would give stack traces on windows 00:17:01 I was rethinking Abyss Shifting. On Abyss shift I could make the abyss decay into a new abyss rather than just jumping somewhere els 00:18:30 -!- moohaud has quit [Client Quit] 00:19:48 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:09 abyss shift gets you out of trapped spots - don't lose that 00:20:24 -!- randumb has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:20:50 infiniplex: trapped in a corner? or overwhelmed by monsters? or both? 00:22:10 I had been thinking trapped by walls... 00:22:29 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:51 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 00:30:21 Is there a way to get the logs from IRC? 00:30:31 check the topic 00:31:24 thanks 00:31:27 -!- infiniplex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:41:18 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:52 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 00:44:15 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:12 -!- codrus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:48:41 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:46 -!- spaceships has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:06:05 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 01:14:23 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:23 |amethyst: I'm going to try to make initial banishment even cooler. Banish the whole dungeon with the player and melt it away 01:20:44 cool 01:21:16 monqy: think I should provide additional visual stimulus? 01:21:31 I don't think anyone is going to overlook getting banished, but then again 01:22:45 maybe start the melting or add some tloc clouds and discoloration? idk. a forced -more- on banishment would prevent the overlooking so it just matters what looks good and plays well 01:23:12 playing well taking precedence but this seems like a purely aesthetic matter so unless it's absolutely ridiculous it shouldn't be an issue 01:23:28 I'll see what I can do 01:23:32 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:25:06 I'm not sure how I did it, but I managed to make it so that killing an eldritch tentacle merely turns in into another tentacle portal. So you're left with a dormant tentacle coming out of one portal and leaving through another 01:26:02 what does that mean in gameplay terms 01:26:28 This wasn't deliberate, mind you! It's not supposed to do that 01:26:36 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 01:27:06 (Also, if you kill this erroneous dormant tentacle, the game may crash) 01:40:36 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 01:44:33 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:41 -!- eb has quit [] 01:48:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 01:48:52 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:41 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:11 -!- Elynae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:32 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05:37 -!- codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:10:11 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:33 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:27 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:20:55 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:53 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:30 -!- whog has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:31 -!- magistern has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:01 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:00 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:04 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:03:49 -!- Elynae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:10 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:13:15 -!- Keratin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:14 -!- dagonfive has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:52 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:39 -!- Elynae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:45 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:31 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:54 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:52 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:40:20 -!- ToBeFree_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:26 hi, 03:40:31 -!- notthepope has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:40:40 I forgot my crawl.develz.org ssh password :-/ 03:40:49 could you send me a new one to my email address? 03:43:39 -!- tensorpudding_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:16 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:13 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 03:50:04 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:10 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:45 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:34 !tell infiniplex I'm not telling you to drop everything and rewrite all the code; heck, this one is just hard to read, we have plenty of places that are that _and_ don't work in any sane manner. My concern was about picking techniques that produce code that can be read. 04:12:34 kilobyte: OK, I'll let infiniplex know. 04:12:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:13:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:57 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:29:00 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 04:33:32 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:55 -!- SevenDeadlySins has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:40 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:09 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:27 -!- Sapher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:58:06 -!- notthepope has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-754-ge10bc5c 05:04:11 -!- Ashenden has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:21 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:13:51 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:10 -!- antrees has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:30 -!- evilmike has quit [] 05:32:04 -!- seriosu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:42:52 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 05:43:34 -!- DarkPawBear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:44:19 -!- Naar is now known as Guest38235 05:46:01 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:27 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:52:54 -!- Linksi_ is now known as Linksi 05:54:43 -!- seriosu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:58:12 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:57 -!- hangedman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:11 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:09 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:35 -!- Guest38235 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:10:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:07 -!- ldierk has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:21 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:15 -!- ToBeFree_ has quit [Quit: hope you send me that mail] 06:27:01 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:32:09 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:28 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:11 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:01 -!- elliott_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:43 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:22 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:41 -!- notthepope has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:48:05 -!- jiero has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120907231657]] 06:50:53 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:53:55 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:57:43 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:22 -!- Keratin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:01:22 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:57 -!- ev_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:03 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:35 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:37 -!- the_glow has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:25:40 -!- Jon-slashem has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:24 -!- IanKeith has quit [] 07:41:05 -!- AndChat|529689 has quit [Client Quit] 07:41:38 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:40 -!- AndChat529689 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:50 -!- AndChat|529689 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46:44 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:05 -!- ncampion has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:57:45 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:17 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:32 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:20:26 -!- Surr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:18 -!- Kalma has quit [Quit: *_*] 08:23:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:57 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:35 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:31:05 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:56 MarvinPA: tarantellas are still in (wrt your removal of one of Donald's lines) 08:53:30 oh yeah, that one was because of the "they" reference which i thought we were supposed to avoid 08:53:48 oh no, glamour was removed?? 08:53:58 (i actually like donald talking about removed stuff) 08:54:19 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:05 i support having donald constantly talk about "they" 08:55:07 maybe it could be worded differently instead, but donald talking about some invisible "they" naming monsters seems pretty weird :P 08:55:10 say, complaining about certain recent nerfs to axes 08:55:19 i'm sure MarvinPA gets what i'm thinking of here 08:55:20 ??they 08:55:20 devteam[1/4]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:admin:devteam 08:55:23 mmm 08:55:29 you are the expert in it 08:58:28 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:20 elliot: a strange definition of "nerf" you have... 09:02:25 -!- Achlys is now known as Keratin 09:06:31 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:03 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:05 -!- Sorbius_ has quit [Quit: When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty] 09:16:32 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:27:28 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 09:30:58 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:35:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:28 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37:37 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 09:38:48 -!- Rewans has quit [] 09:39:52 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:42:22 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:51:41 -!- User82 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:16 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:09 -!- VG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:26 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:02:45 -!- Poncheis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:27 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:16 -!- Garhauk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:47 -!- Garhauk_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:47 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:19 -!- Garhauk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:27 -!- Garhauk__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:49 -!- Garhauk__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:22 -!- Garhauk__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:40 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:49 -!- Garhauk__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:21 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:33 -!- User82 has quit [Quit: User82] 10:10:42 -!- Garhauk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:11 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:32 -!- Garhauk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:40 -!- Garhauk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:02 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:21 -!- Garhauk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:51 -!- Garhauk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:41 -!- Garhauk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:33 -!- Garhauk__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:30 -!- Garhauk___ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:17 -!- Garhauk__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:45 -!- t4nk700 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17:10 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:18:18 -!- Garhauk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:20:00 -!- Garhauk___ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:21:31 -!- Garhauk___ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:31 -!- Garhauk___ is now known as Garhauk 10:21:44 ... 10:22:17 !tell amethyst I got abyss 'melt shifts' working 10:22:18 bh: OK, I'll let amethyst know. 10:27:10 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:30:45 bh: technically, an abyss shift is when you hit the edge of the map and it scrolls (shifts) 10:31:05 abyss translation 10:31:06 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:31:11 it's confusing when you talk about abyss teleports as "shifts" 10:31:12 what HangedMan said 10:32:47 !tell amethyst %s/shift/teleport/g 10:32:47 bh: OK, I'll let amethyst know. 10:35:37 either way, the effect is pretty darn cool 10:36:03 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:20 -!- Adder has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:57 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:59 -!- Siddhartha has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:52 aww, just wanted to ask how it works 10:48:52 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:39 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:53:08 Just asked jpeg for help... I wonder if she'll do it :O 10:54:52 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:25 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:15 -!- DrCrypt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:48 -!- anastasios_ is now known as Pedjt 10:59:31 -!- Pedjt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:48 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:09 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:44 -!- User82 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:57 -!- _dd has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:10:52 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:07 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:50 galehar: i think the new fire giant description is way too long 11:18:40 oh, she replied... and she said yes =) 11:19:10 alefury: true, but probably not a concern, or is it? 11:19:38 alefury: five lines, most games have that as the minimum 11:19:41 i never read a lot of descriptions, usually i went straight to the learndb 11:20:11 sure, Crawl has a stress on crunch rather than fluff, but it's not too bad IMO 11:20:23 but i kind of like the shorter ones. as long as necessary to convey the main threats, and establish a flavor baseline. 11:20:34 alefury: a vast majority of players don't know about the learndb 11:20:43 i dont know 11:20:44 alefury: a valid sentiment 11:20:58 what does the survey say about that? i think there was a question about that in there? 11:21:08 i do want to finally see those results :) 11:21:10 a good part of best players hang around here, yeah. But those tend to be able to source dive themselves. 11:21:13 -!- User82 has quit [Quit: User82] 11:21:36 the learndb web interface is fairly accessible, and really good for looking up monsters 11:22:11 i think i used the learndb a while before ##crawl, too 11:23:02 * dpeg has never looked up a monster (except for vault making). 11:23:14 nice 11:23:36 i like to know the spells, mostly, and the damage 11:23:40 ...and it's not because I know the numbers by heart 11:23:49 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:23:57 -!- Pang_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:58 some stuff like orange rats are not very intuitive 11:24:07 yes 11:26:00 dpeg: asked jpeg for help with what btw? 11:26:02 randgods? 11:29:49 Atomjack (L27 OpFE) ASSERT(!invalid_monster_index(mg.foe) || mg.foe == MHITYOU || mg.foe == MHITNOT) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 1680 failed. (Slime:6) 11:31:50 * kilobyte ponders if some tile person could be persuaded to help with resizing local tiles. 11:32:09 fyi i have a couple hours of work done on randgods. not worth sharing yet, imo, but it's going well so far 11:33:01 with Win8 being unleashed on hapless people soon, our current forced window geometry code is pretty bad. Same for dual-screen setups, and so on. 11:33:58 ColdPie: sounds great; especially as a good part of the design looks like it'll need to be modified once actually tried in the game 11:34:11 so getting it early would be great 11:34:59 mostly need to get piety working and a little more infrastructure, then it should be good to share. i assume you want a patchset on mantis? 11:36:25 I guess it's going to be so complex there'd be plenty of conflicts, and for that having it pushed in git form somewhere tends to be better 11:36:41 i can push it up to gitorious, then 11:36:59 cool :) 11:44:54 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:49 -!- lexackson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:07 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:34 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 11:51:58 -!- Palyth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 11:51:58 -!- Lawman has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 11:51:58 -!- zizzlebop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:45 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:46 -!- Chakan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:57:25 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:55 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:59:33 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 12:01:00 -!- elliott has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:01:04 -!- SurpriseTRex_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:45 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:02 hello 12:07:22 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:15 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 12:09:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:09:54 lexackson: hi 12:10:19 ColdPie: are you still around? 12:10:22 dpeg: yeah 12:10:52 kilobyte: what parts of the design are you referring to? 12:11:05 ColdPie: I <3 random gods. What do you have, what are your plans? 12:11:21 Did you come from the stuff that's hinted at on the wiki, or completely independent? 12:11:29 yeah, i've mostly been following the wiki 12:11:41 ColdPie: did you see that I recently blued some stuff? 12:11:52 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:59 i have basically another god that's randomly generated (name, altar description, piety gain/loss) 12:12:21 neat 12:12:38 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:12:38 what i need left are better way to generate the gain/loss and abilities so they're sane, and to provide descriptions for those 12:12:46 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:12:52 i was going to do one example implementation, then pass it off so others can build on it 12:13:56 ColdPie: what piety gain ways are there atm? 12:14:16 i just stole DID_ symbols that already exist 12:14:51 this is the infrastructure left to do that i mentioned above 12:14:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:33 ColdPie: what would be *really* helpful is if all these (powers, gain/loss, conducts) can have a template in text format (I indicated one for a power). 12:16:43 i'll have to look at crawl's text parsing stuff, then. i was planning to just hard-code it, but the text format is much slicker 12:17:18 -!- Panfork has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:27 so to use this example, you're thinking if the rng selects Acid_Storm, then it will prefer (but not exclusively) other abilities with the "acid" tag? 12:18:32 ColdPie: hard coded is probably enough for testing whether the concept has any merits. Needless to say, I am so convinced of it that I think further :) 12:19:02 ColdPie: yes. It will be very helpful if parameters (costs, piety threshold, tags) can be set in such a human-readable file. 12:19:44 okay, i'll keep that in mind 12:20:14 hm, how would you hook that up to an ability in code? 12:20:21 btw, for a first step, it would be acceptable to just use Fire Storm (or any other level spell) as a "signature power". 12:21:02 the name field, i guess 12:21:16 ColdPie: yes, or another line with an explicit function to call 12:23:06 okay. i didn't know about the text format before, but that's a great way to solve the problem. thanks for pointing it out 12:23:46 I have to thank 12:24:27 If I had known coding support is around, I'd been quicker and more thorough with the design. Expected to work on it on and off over the years. 12:24:43 ColdPie: is there anything design-wise about randgods you want, or don't like from the proposal` 12:24:59 well, one thing i think it really important is to give each one character 12:25:20 i'm thinking the god description. it'd be cool if it could be very different, and self-consistent 12:25:26 are you thinking of the db? Please don't, it only seems tempting but then it's no end of pain to actually maintain the code. 12:25:30 explain why a god likes it when you kill kobolds, for example 12:25:37 it is good for, say, monster speech or descriptions 12:25:40 ColdPie: yes, that is currently missing from my design. 12:25:56 I believe that conducts, piety rules and trademark rules should be used (in that order). 12:27:47 i was thinking, for each conduct list maybe 5 or so different description options 12:27:54 yes 12:27:58 pick one for each rule, and that composes the description 12:28:38 can word them such that it's clear why the god in question is a minor one (not a temple god), too 12:28:49 At least, I can help with that :) 12:29:05 good chance for (accidental) humor when you have so many options to combine :) 12:29:32 yes 12:30:15 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:32 ColdPie: have you coded for Crawl before? (I.e.: how familiar are you with the source?) 12:33:47 no, i haven't. not at all, this is my first time diving into the source 12:33:51 dpeg: totally unrelated, but you've recently messed with the Singing Sword. Would you care to improve other "noisy" weapons as well? 12:33:56 i've found it surprisingly straightforward 12:34:07 it's not over engineered, which is a pleasant change of pace from other projects i've worked on 12:34:32 dpeg: perhaps even splitting them into several themes; it's weird to have clucking noises and actual speech on every such item 12:35:49 ColdPie: I guess you haven't seen the radius_iterator/los_def tangle then :p 12:35:49 kilobyte: of course I'd care. This means splitting up the section before the actual Singing Sword speech, right? 12:36:09 or, for less of overengineering and more pure mess, teleport/blink code 12:36:12 kilobyte: nah, just grepping around for god-related things :P 12:36:13 dpeg: yeah 12:36:36 kilobyte: leave him his lofty illusions about the Crawl code... ColdPie will experience banishment to the sourcical Abyss soon enough. 12:37:03 can't be any worse than the shit i do for work 12:37:13 kilobyte: yes, I can do that. Would then a noisy weapon (secretly) choose a theme? 12:37:49 dpeg: I think that'd be the easiest way to have it consistent 12:38:08 alternatively, we can scale them down, and eradicate unfitting messages 12:38:41 noisy weapons happen pretty rarely, so not putting too much work there would be a valid option too 12:39:11 kilobyte: I'll have a look into wpnnoise.txt tonight anyway (more TSS lines rolled in). 12:39:29 kilobyte: thanks for tweaking the numbers, btw. I didn't test it, but I trust your judgement. 12:39:33 I mean, choosing one (perhaps wide) theme and sticking with it 12:39:51 dpeg: the Singing Sword? I'm afraid it's quite a failure as-is: no one seems to be using it :( 12:40:25 well, it's a function of damage done, and chances to trigger, isn't it? 12:40:35 Would be trivial to turn into a no-brainer weapon 12:40:37 it needs a brand or a better base type or something 12:41:18 make it an unbranded eudemon blade 12:41:30 ontoclasm1: why? Its effect has enough sliders to allow doing it without a yet another boring base type upgrade, or using a stock brand. 12:41:47 Players love it no matter what. I will care about the speech, cannot really comment on base type etc. 12:42:02 -!- whog has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:21 well it's an unrand so it's not going to be used very much anyway 12:42:51 but zigsprint shows that it's pretty clearly worth having when tension is high, at least 12:42:51 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 12:43:02 although maybe tension doesn't get that high in regular games, dunno 12:44:43 MarvinPA: the user of TSS may go for higher tension then :) 12:46:42 kilobyte: i guess, it just seems like an unbranded long sword is going to be a drag any time you're not at high tension 12:47:01 maybe it needs to do something while in "singing" mode 12:47:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:37 like... increase your accuracy or regen or something bard-esque 12:47:46 seems most useful for wielding while you're killing things with spells or something, not like you're forced to hit things with it 12:47:51 i maintain that the singing sword is fine but tension is not 12:48:17 ChrisOelmueller: good point, might be good to look into tension first 12:48:26 Eronarn had several ideas on how to improve it i think 12:49:06 Eronarn: are you still that busy, or did you get any chances to mess with lava orcs? 12:49:19 maybe it's unthematic that you could use it at full effectiveness with no longblade skill at all, not sure 12:49:56 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:20 MarvinPA: hm, good thinking: Long Blades skill should have effect on singing/screaming damage. 12:51:23 dpeg: can you recall what was your reason to request for there to be no such effect? I found it puzzling then. 12:51:33 you said something but I forgot :( 12:52:03 Feels like bad flavor to me. 12:52:21 I like th idea of the sword screming of its own volition :D 12:52:44 :D 12:53:34 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:03 kilobyte: I forgot too 12:54:44 ghallber1: no idea what I said back then but now I like the idea of training Long Blades in order to maximise the shouting 12:55:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:03 kilobyte: and re: randgods: now is a good time to voice principal objections to the idea. I have high hopes for it, and am willing to put effort into it. (If all goes well, randgods can be as good as portal vaults). 13:02:53 dpeg: my objections are only to particular items, not to the concept as a whole 13:03:47 and nothing major too, merely "this is so overpowered it can't be reasonably balanced", "that is meh", "unplayable conduct", etc -- of that kind 13:04:35 and the powers listed will probably be mangled beyond recognition during implementation, so it's too early for a flamewar even on the individual items 13:04:48 -!- codrus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:04:49 ... of which there's a hundred or so 13:05:14 kilobyte: ah, alright. That's fine, of course. 13:05:30 -!- ghallber1 is now known as ghallberg 13:05:43 (Although I am curious just *what* is so overpowered that it couldn't be balanced :) Just teasing 13:06:55 djinn/moon troll hp casting: dumping 250 mp worth of firestorms turn by turn :p 13:07:21 (actually, I hope this one could be overcome _somehow_) 13:07:43 dpeg: I mean, randgods are not the only thing with problems like this 13:08:01 and killing a single power won't kill randgods, which is their strength 13:08:57 yes, also a little more resilient against abuse due to randomness (much harder with a species or spell which is reliable) 13:09:47 * kilobyte wouldn't want Sebi to keep running to the Randgod Temple. 13:12:37 haha 13:12:48 no randgod temple, promised 13:12:58 this is the biggest problem with randgods that I see 13:13:01 randtemple 13:13:18 and the only one that's not fixable by killing a single bad power 13:13:21 * Zannick imagines an ayn rand religion and shudders 13:14:15 kilobyte: what i had in mind was one randgod is either generated or loaded from disk at game init, and there is <1 randgod altar generated per game 13:15:03 ColdPie: yeah, but that doesn't affect scumming much 13:15:33 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:43 you mean restarting the game and running through D6 until you get what you want? 13:15:59 -!- thighhigh has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 13:16:14 How is this different from doing D:1-6 until you get a Sewer? Or a good randart off the floor? 13:17:00 ColdPie: did you see our (nicolae and I) ideas how randgod preservation on the wiki? (Keep them around for a bit, have them disappear after a while, with wins counting really high.) 13:17:08 yes 13:17:24 a single sewer is not game-changing, randarts good enough to be game-changing are too unlikely early on 13:17:43 dpeg: server-wide? 13:17:49 operator-tunable limit of, say, 5 randgods on the server. 1/25 chance of killing a god when player loses, 1/2 chance of killing the god when a player wins 13:17:53 they'd be quite boring locally 13:18:09 but on a shared server... sounds good 13:18:52 kilobyte: yes. So they'd be around for a bit, and people could discuss how broken/boring/whatever "Oxypoxy" is, before the god disappears again. I think that's fun. 13:19:07 that's actually the part i'm most excited about 13:19:10 For locals, we could heave a Hearse for randgods. 13:19:40 * kilobyte ponders savescummers and shudders. 13:19:48 ah, right 13:19:53 * dpeg shudders too 13:20:35 start scummers for how i've implemented it, fwiw 13:21:18 kilobyte: special bonus: server admins could declare one god to be a kind of mascot, and that one could appear very rarely from time to time 13:21:54 -!- hagb4rd has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:22:07 I kind of think I know where this is going to end 13:22:24 randgame 13:22:26 World downfall? 13:22:46 Yiuf used to be a random vault rename... 13:23:08 kilobyte: yes, yes. Have to make sure those guys *do* get removed after a while. 13:23:10 -!- whog has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:06 I mean, dev A likes randgod B, and makes it permanent. 13:25:38 but hey, we're not at 27 gods yet :p 13:26:04 randrace 13:26:29 ??27[9] 13:26:29 27[9/9]: Backgrounds as of 0.12. 13:26:44 3 races to go 13:26:47 we already have randbackground (wanderer) 13:27:02 lava orcs, djinn... then another free slot 13:27:05 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:17 or two if halflings get what they deserve 13:27:25 until we axe one or more elves 13:27:29 :P 13:27:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:27:59 kilobyte: don't worry, the random gods will not be nearly good enough to be permanentised :) 13:28:23 dpeg: hmm, aren't you supposed to plan to make them good? 13:28:27 of course 13:28:46 but they get away with stuff we wouldn't accept on normal gods 13:28:48 ("good" != "overpowered", of course, I mean fun and stuff, not win rate) 13:28:52 yes 13:29:13 Although I have some ideas which, if they work well on randgods, could be exported to proper deities. 13:29:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:29:35 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:29:50 like, you mean, would "no healing" or "no weapon/armour/wand use" be considered acceptable for a race before you try that? 13:30:18 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:34 kilobyte: not sure I fully understand, but I think we mean the same 13:30:47 * kilobyte meows at Mu_. 13:30:55 btw, nicolae has provided excellent Sword speech... 13:31:11 meow 13:38:13 -!- MrBushido has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:38:36 !tell elliptic we talked about eliminating rPois++ and making immunity still do rPois+ damage for Venom Bolt and stuff. You'd want to browse monster resists in a SQL form then: http://sprunge.us/hFAP -- easier to search for specific values. 13:38:37 kilobyte: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 13:38:43 "The neck bone's connected to the head bone... but not for long!" 13:39:18 dpeg: <3 13:39:26 hFAP 13:39:32 "Kill 'em all and let @player_god@ sort them out!" 13:40:01 <|amethyst> Every time I hear "Dem Bones" I can't help but think of the last episode of The Prisoner 13:40:23 oh yeah i briefly read that discussion, if nothing else i'm very much in favour of getting rid of rPois++ and rElec++, since almost nothing uses them 13:40:27 "let GOD_NO_GOD sort them out!" 13:40:49 but probably going further and simplifying it more than that is also a good idea 13:41:32 MarvinPA: actually, rElec++ is the most frequent value of rElec :p 13:41:55 huh really? i swear i changed a lot of rElec values a while ago 13:42:09 to move it to either 1 or 3 13:42:10 besides 0, of course 13:42:21 select elec,count(*) from mres group by elec; 13:42:55 i guess 2 is the default though, yeah, so maybe i didn't change enough of them 13:42:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I was thinking it would be nice to make 'monster' generate CSV, HTML, etc... SQL-DDL would be nice too 13:44:07 correction: rElec+ and rElec++ are tied at 28 monsters 13:44:27 rElec+++ 23, rElec++++ 1, rElec0 407 13:45:23 pois: -1:28, 0:253, 1:130, 2:6, 3:69, 4:1 13:45:25 but yeah, ++ is practically immunity anyway so getting rid of it and just changing all of those to +++ wouldn't even be much of a change 13:46:13 I wonder if it wouldn't be better to make it consistent with players and move immunity to ++++ everywhere 13:46:46 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:46 alefury: Hallo! I asked jpeg about help with speech lines (for Singing Sword), and she said yes :) 13:48:04 ah 13:48:10 arent there a lot of those already? 13:48:53 I need help with syntax enhancement... because there are so many. 13:49:03 heh, makes sense 13:50:43 -!- hagb4rd has quit [Quit: hagb4rd] 13:54:12 -!- Chozo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59:04 <|amethyst> !tell rax I'm able to play (at least char selection) locally by running /chroot/dgamelaunch, but still need to get webtiles and web access to morgues/rcfiles/milestones/etc working. 13:59:04 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 13:59:22 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 14:01:01 <|amethyst> !tell rax I also need to figure out how to handle old games (where the binaries don't do webtiles; I don't want to recompile every single one of those versions). I'm thinking modify the launcher script to do something "$BINARY_NAME" -version | grep USE_TILE_WEB and only including the -webtiles-socket option if true 14:01:01 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 14:01:06 <|amethyst> !tell rax I also need to figure out how to handle old games (where the binaries don't do webtiles; I don't want to recompile every single one of those versions). I'm thinking modify the launcher script to do something "$BINARY_NAME" -version | grep USE_TILE_WEB 14:01:06 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rax know. 14:01:30 sanity check: I want a way to redefine item glyphs/colours -- so you can for example have meaningful colours for corpses rather than having them masquerade as skeletons or food (monster colour means nothing, edibility does). 14:02:18 this would require including id status and tags like edibility or uselessness. These can change during play, unlike monster types. 14:03:09 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:23 <|amethyst> so match against the stash-tagged name? 14:03:38 one possible implementation: querying item.name() for every top item on the screen, every single turn; possible cache could at most avoid running the regexps (ie, item.name() -> glyph/colour) 14:03:55 <|amethyst> aha 14:04:40 another implementation: storing the glyph/colour in the item together with a version tag, and whenever your resistances/etc change, bump the tag 14:05:39 implementation 2 would risk failing to invalidate colours whenever we forget that some action can possibly change some stash-tag 14:05:56 (or identification status, etc) 14:06:27 <|amethyst> how about #2 and always recompute when you are in the same square? so if it is out-of-date, visiting the stash fixes it 14:07:17 <|amethyst> (in the same square, when it is in your inventory, when viewing a stash, ...) 14:07:36 ie, we'd possibly have stale glyphs/colours for items you're not standing on 14:07:49 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:51 glyphs never matter on your square or in the inventory 14:08:04 <|amethyst> hm 14:08:49 (the player's symbol always has precedence, it's not NetHack where being invisible without sInv lets an item get through) 14:09:32 <|amethyst> #1 might not be so bad 14:10:10 <|amethyst> I'd benchmark it somewhere like Slime:6 14:10:54 hmm, good idea, it wouldn't be much work to convert it to #2 (over doing just #2 outright, that is) 14:11:06 <|amethyst> especially with a cache 14:11:33 <|amethyst> looking up names of every stack-top object is probably trivial compared to some of the other stuff we do every turn 14:11:51 <|amethyst> matching each of those against a long list of regexps could be a lot of work, but that's not necessary with caching 14:12:55 for #2 can't you just keep a copy of every status that might affect it and check each turn if it has changed? 14:13:10 -!- barbs has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:15 much less likely to introduce a new status and forget to add it to the copy 14:13:18 <|amethyst> for each item? 14:14:13 no, for the player. if your rPois status changed between turns, regenerate all item colors 14:14:30 <|amethyst> as kilobyte said, it's easy to miss one 14:14:43 it is? 14:15:09 <|amethyst> because it's not just resists 14:15:21 isn't it just rPois, a couple mutations, and "gourmand or so? like, 5 things? 14:16:09 ColdPie: it's surprising how many different things can identify an item 14:16:22 <|amethyst> god, piety level with your god, form, hunger status, skill levels 14:17:09 i guess i was just thinking about corpse edibility. you're talking about more than that, aren't you? 14:17:22 <|amethyst> "useless" tag for example 14:17:34 <|amethyst> all the things I mentioned can affect whether an item is useless 14:18:36 <|amethyst> ColdPie: the idea is to support this for everything you can currently check for in menu_colours 14:19:27 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:19:53 <|amethyst> (see options_guide.txt; there's a pretty long list of tags) 14:21:06 uselessness happens to be one of tags people will be likely to look for 14:21:37 although we're kind of missing different tags for short-term and permanent uselessness 14:22:51 potions of experience cound as "useless" when you're in lich form... 14:22:55 s/cound/count/ 14:25:39 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 14:31:41 -!- Panfork has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:53 <|amethyst> we should also have a "sacrificeable" tag 14:36:41 -!- Pang_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:37:53 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:42:22 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:42:31 haha anchovies are delicious 14:43:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:11 * kilobyte prepares firewood and a stake. 14:56:07 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:12 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:12 -!- shadeofdante_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:14:37 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:20:43 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:07 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:08 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:23 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:27:24 -!- voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:40 -!- lexackson has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:03 -!- trapworth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:36:23 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Using leafChat 2] 15:37:08 -!- Sab0t has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:39:27 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:17 kilobyte: just having a look, the lines for noisy weapons are already separated nicely: chatter (all speech), weapon noises (howling, wailing etc.), instrumental noises. 15:46:56 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:47 -!- Pandar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:38 -!- Boredone has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:33 -!- MrBushid0 is now known as MrBushido 15:52:23 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:56:45 -!- Izicata has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:46 -!- crate_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:55 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:33 MarvinPA: good call 16:08:12 so weird to not have commit announcements 16:08:37 yes 16:08:41 where have they gone? 16:09:01 CIA is dead 16:09:19 and Cheibriados went insane 16:17:27 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 16:17:53 dpeg: The Screaming Sword shouts, "Kill 'em all and let atheism sort them out!" 16:18:00 doesn't sound that good to me 16:18:15 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:17 perhaps it should be special-cased in lua somehow? 16:18:37 Kill 'em all and let nothing sort them out!" 16:18:47 also @The_weapon@ moans, "By @player_god@, you are such a @_coward_@." 16:19:19 why not just "the gods" 16:19:40 being a member of no religion in crawl doesn't mean the gods don't exist 16:20:07 as opposed to the real world use of atheism to mean the belief that they don't 16:20:49 the third reference is: @The_weapon@ @_composes_or_sings_@ a hymn praising @player_god@. 16:21:19 (the only one where "atheism" may work) 16:22:04 kilobyte: yes, I just tested that, contemplated it, and thought I'd leave that alone. 16:22:13 how about @player_religion@ which uses "atheism" and @player_god@ which uses something else? 16:22:40 Zannick: more fun if it references the character's god 16:22:52 right, but in both cases it'll do that 16:23:02 but the no god case is handled differently 16:24:46 Would suffice to have an alternative to @player_god@ with a different no god alternative (is @player_god@ used anywhere outside of wpnnoise.txt? For example, "Zot" or "orb" 16:24:53 Zannick: yes 16:25:34 great minds, etc. :) 16:28:24 clearly godless guys should use "Feawn" 16:31:47 wow, the minotaur sat on a book with 8 spells, of levels 3,3,4,4,5,6,6,9. Do we want that? 16:32:44 randbook? I think it's fine for them to be exceptionally good, sometimes 16:33:08 books that big aren't exactly a common find 16:33:54 yes, that's why I was surprised -- okay, then 16:34:01 which lv 9 spell is it? 16:34:08 Shatter 16:34:12 neat 16:34:21 you can sometimes get randbooks with only 1 spell 16:34:21 only that I'm an OcAE :) 16:37:34 reskill to shatter 16:37:36 :D 16:38:10 good point :) 16:40:09 how do you managed to create an OcAE in trunk? 16:40:14 I guess we'll get lost lore next 16:40:45 i'd prefer MeAK if that happens 16:41:29 Me being...? 16:45:13 Merfolk 16:45:36 -!- johnthebear has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:45:59 were they even "Me"? 16:47:02 (the joke about Op being Oc at some point is very obscure) 16:54:30 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:17 kilobyte: i'm midway through rebasing lava orcs... i actually plan to get back to it tonight, as i now have my desktop set up 16:56:33 i have another 15 hours or so of work due a few days ago, though 16:58:27 -!- moip has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:03 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 16:59:04 you're running out of good words, though 17:00:11 -!- anon has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:51 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:14 -!- Ashenden has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:07 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:06 -!- jeanjacques has quit [*.net *.split] 17:09:01 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:08 about that free Slashdot shirt I mentioned earlier: any takers from the US? 17:09:08 (I won one, shipping is $51 to Poland or $0 to the US...) 17:09:23 kilobyte: what does it say? 17:10:11 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:10:50 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:37 dpeg: you're in .de, it'd be about as expensive for you too :( 17:11:41 https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f226/?cpg=sd152012 17:13:49 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:39 -!- Saint-Wacko has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:52 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:15:16 dpeg: would it be possible to reuse the database.cc code for the rng god stuff, or should it be a separate text parser? 17:17:17 ColdPie: I cannot answer that :| 17:17:36 okay 17:17:49 sorry 17:19:05 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:34 ColdPie: code reuse is always good 17:21:09 oh, galehar's a-lurking 17:21:32 -!- SlyShy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:22:16 galehar: I like your Oct 8 "Fighting changes" synopsis 17:23:17 kilobyte: that shirt, just send it to Neil or Chris 17:24:51 dpeg: yeah, the page was getting really outdated with all the discussions that happened 17:27:18 galehar: yes, good way to keep going 17:28:07 ColdPie: I can only really answer questions regarding randgod design. Would you mind swapping emails? (Asking because I didn't see you on the wiki.) 17:28:43 sure. coldpies@gmail.com. i guess i should register on the wiki 17:30:04 dpeg: or anyone else, I just need a shipping address and "I don't hate Slashdot" 17:30:17 :) 17:30:31 kilobyte: ask in six hours, you will get replies. 17:30:43 A shame we cannot offer that shirt as price for the tournament. 17:31:08 -!- rkd has quit [] 17:31:12 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:42 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:06 uhm, it's not appropriate for Crawl :/ 17:39:42 kilobyte: I'll ask my sister, she lives in NY 17:40:35 kilobyte: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/590/35281 17:44:17 -!- dumplings has quit [] 17:46:14 -!- SurpriseTRex_ has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:34 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:02 Eronarn: <3 17:54:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:29 <|amethyst> post a review that says just "Bring back mountain dwarves! 17:54:34 <|amethyst> " 17:58:02 that page 17:58:03 wtf 17:58:18 cant people just enjoy their beer? 17:58:21 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:43 i could never trust a review on that page 17:59:01 Appearance : golden color, with white foamy head. 17:59:04 its beer, sherlock 17:59:36 no longer brewed :( 18:00:31 |amethyst: there is a wordpress comment "No mountain dwarves :(" 18:00:33 ale fury 18:07:09 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:22 -!- Ragnor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:08 -!- Panfork has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:04 fr: hill dwarves 18:20:17 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 18:20:25 -!- Roarke has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:29 I have no lips, and I must scowl. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6292) by Izicata 18:22:45 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:23:58 -!- serious_jules has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:24:23 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:25:18 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:39 !tell ontoclasm It may be worth writing a line to Denzi (use his Mantis email) that you're collecting tiles, and that he doesn't have to react to every comment on Mantis. Poor Denzi. 18:26:40 dpeg: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 18:27:21 The silver star salutes you. 18:27:22 etc 18:27:55 The silver star nuzzles your face. 18:28:08 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...] 18:28:11 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 18:28:11 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:42 The silver star relaxes its fighting stance. 18:29:38 silver stars are really weird anyways 18:30:15 a swine saluted me yesterday 18:30:25 would you prefer figuring out the logicistics of an apis saluting 18:30:40 it raises its hoof? 18:30:46 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:59 I see some problems with ophans, though 18:31:19 galehar: i actually like sif btw, and think its fine that some gods are subtle 18:31:25 (re tavern) 18:31:46 (not that ixy would be) 18:32:32 but yeah, whatever 18:35:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:24 -!- browncustard is now known as blackcustard 18:45:33 -!- kwel01 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:29 -!- infiniplex has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:55 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:54:57 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:58:01 Slime creature ends up in teleport trap while stairdancing but does not teleport (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6293) by zkyp 19:03:43 -!- knaveightt has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:58 -!- infiniplex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:23:34 Sleepydude (L3 DrAE) ASSERT(sel.size() == 1) in 'spl-book.cc' at line 1041 failed. (D:2) 19:29:15 <|amethyst> zinscumming 19:29:17 <|amethyst> doh 19:30:12 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:53 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:41 -!- Beneather has quit [Quit: Beneather] 19:54:04 Minor graphical glitch with yellowdragonian tile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6294) by zkyp 20:04:13 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:06:22 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:28 -!- SurpriseTRex_ has quit [Quit: SurpriseTRex_] 20:30:28 -!- cidolfus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:16 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 20:32:21 -!- VG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:50 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:22 -!- serious_jules has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:50:54 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.] 20:54:25 sexyelmdreams (L7 FeCK) ASSERT(you.wizard && !you.did_escape_death()) in 'xom.cc' at line 3735 failed. (D (Sprint)) 20:54:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:01:02 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:15 xombugging 21:03:44 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:06:52 -!- Siddhartha has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:23 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:24 -!- codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:35 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25:46 -!- Sab0t_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:59 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:06 ??summon small mammals 21:29:06 summon small mammals[1/2]: Summons one (two at max power) rats, giant bats, quokkas or grey rats. Monsters that cast this spell can additionally summon green and orange rats. 21:29:21 ??summon small mammals[2] 21:29:22 summon small mammals[2/2]: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict 21:29:39 Is Spammals still in the game? 21:29:44 ...yes. 21:30:03 ok, momentary confusion. (too much caffeine) 21:30:29 fr replace it with summon greater quokka 21:30:38 the thing you may be thinking of that would have efforts made to replace is vampire summon 21:32:29 -!- ChrisOelmueller has quit [Quit: Out at the horizon, out near the burnished edge of the world, who are these visitors standing...] 21:33:18 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:20 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:33:35 -!- ChrisOelmueller is now known as Guest98953 21:34:44 HangedMan: I've rewritten abyss teleport-within-level to instead melt the abyss into a new abyss around the player. Do you think I should move the player within the newly generate abyss? It makes teleport strictly less useful for escape 21:37:25 what does that do to monsters? 21:38:46 They stick around for the party 21:39:20 I think teleport should still work as an escape method 21:39:28 teleport is already quite delayed in abyss 21:39:33 I could retain normal teleport-within-level and cobble the melty-mechanic onto it 21:39:54 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:39:58 if it drags monsters with you, it's going to be almost useless, that's the concern I have 21:40:10 -!- Kyrris has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:04 totally reasonable. I'll put it back 21:41:34 I don't actually understand the point of the teleport within level mechanic 21:42:14 wasn't descending down an abyssal stir made to mutate the previous abyss like banishment, you could use the melting for that 21:42:34 melting is cool, so it should definitely be used for something 21:43:01 teleporting (plus running like hell) is an important part of surviving the abyss though, so it should remain viable 21:43:20 -!- Pikkle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:48:59 -!- Guest98953 is now known as chris-oelmueller 21:52:23 HangedMan: I'll get to it. evilmike totally agree. What would you say to drastically increasing the abyss morph rate while you're waiting to teleport? It might be an interesting effect 21:53:07 might be interesting 22:00:26 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:00 evilmike: I disagree with how the abyss handles spawns. Currently it pops out monsters as you abyss shift. If you stand still and murder the existing monsters you become safer than if you run for it 22:03:06 -!- Pandar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:59 if you can kill everything in the current area, you might be able to hide in a corner for a while, sure 22:04:17 but if you do this, you're not going to find an exit. and if you can kill everything, you're probably pretty strong anyway 22:04:26 reasonable 22:06:36 Abyss:27 is a strange and upsetting place :( 22:10:42 much like this chat 22:11:28 ooo... 22:12:27 -!- browncustard is now known as Guest29760 22:13:35 -!- buki has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:15:43 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:17:15 -!- BrightCloud has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:20:58 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 22:24:39 -!- Guest29760 is now known as blackcustard 22:24:47 -!- blackcustard has quit [Changing host] 22:25:17 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:52 -!- jeek has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:37 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 22:34:04 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:34:10 -!- ontoclasm1 is now known as ontoclasm 22:35:50 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 22:50:09 -!- Stelpa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:48 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:53:28 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:54:43 DracoOmega, ontoclasm1 hiya :) 22:54:55 Hey 22:55:22 DracoOmega: is the wretched star lost and gone forever? 22:55:38 Nah. It's just sort of parked while I wrestle daily with tentacles 22:56:01 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:06 The code bears unfortunate parallels to the thing it's actualizing 22:56:19 glorious tentacles :) For some reason your tentacle monster reminds me of the Dream of the Fisherman's Wife 22:57:15 Oh dear 22:57:34 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:47 (I also plan to fix a few tentacle-related bugs while I'm at it, since I feel sort of responsible now that I've spent this much time with this part of the code) 23:02:37 DracoOmega: Can you point out omissions from the monster list? https://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl/blobs/inception/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc#line112 23:03:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:09 -!- myp has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:42 -!- Stelpa_ has quit [Quit: Butts] 23:04:31 I very much doubt I would notice anything in that long list missing, just at a glance 23:04:37 Abyss rarity has an absolute rarity component, a peak level, and a half-life. Before the peak level, rarity is interpolated with a polynomial. At the peak it's equal to the peak rarity, then it diminishes by half every half-life levels (unless half-life is -1 then it never decreases) 23:04:46 -!- MrBushido has quit [Quit: herpderp] 23:04:56 DracoOmega: fair point. evilmike: What did I miss? 23:05:11 lurking horrors! 23:05:48 Wait, where are the hellions? 23:05:51 shadow imp (065) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 6 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(8), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 11 | Sp: pain (d8), animate dead | Sz: little | Int: normal. 23:05:51 %??shadow imp 23:05:56 hellion (052) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-54 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:05:56 %??hellion 23:06:01 I forgot 'em? 23:06:23 Also, did fiends used to spawn there? 23:06:28 I don't think so 23:06:38 bh: not sure, I'm not good at finding missing stuff :P 23:06:48 -!- Rewans has quit [] 23:06:59 DracoOmega: I can place them deeper 23:07:17 Does that mean they won't show up in earlier levels at all? 23:07:21 no 23:07:27 I'm a touch dubious about their presence, to be honest 23:07:32 me too 23:07:50 k, I'll yank 'em 23:07:51 using too many of the demons might make it feel too much like pandemonium 23:08:12 I'd personally be inclined to keep monster distribution broadly similar to how it is now, except with fewer zombies and skeletal warriors and possibly popcorn. 23:08:27 And then perhaps adjust things again as more abyss-specific stuff gets in 23:08:54 I was mostly copying the existing list. I think I added in fiends in my excitement 23:08:55 you have 3 elementals there, but are missing water elementals 23:09:00 you might as well have all 4 23:09:25 and iron! 23:09:40 iron elemental (10E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 12 | HP: 88-131 | AC/EV: 20/2 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1087 | Sp: iron shot (3d24), slow, metal splinters (3d27) | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 23:09:40 %??iron elemental 23:09:47 huh. I don't know if I've seen one of those 23:09:54 they're a sprint thing 23:10:05 but they don't have to be! 23:10:10 I think brain worms are missing from your list 23:10:16 those are quite abyss-y monsters 23:10:17 realize them! 23:11:19 for fallen holy monsters, you could throw cherubs in there as well (another 'A' type) 23:11:55 Ophans? 23:12:10 yes ophans please 23:12:11 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 23:12:16 ophans are awesome 23:12:46 I worry a bit about their holy flames hurting abyss monsters 23:13:05 wouldn't that be thematic? 23:13:19 I guess so 23:13:48 someone else mentioned death drakes (should be rare though) 23:14:03 Wait, golden eyes aren't on the list either, are they? 23:14:03 oh yeah! 23:14:07 They also should be 23:14:47 maybe ugly things? they seem pretty chaotic 23:14:57 he has very ugly things on there 23:14:58 or are they a late-d/vaults exclusive 23:15:00 ontoclasm: I'll increase their frequency 23:15:00 afaik they spawn with ugly things 23:15:06 they do 23:16:56 I seem to have removed vampires. Do we want them? 23:17:06 oh, and rakshasas and efreets. I am fine with both of those being in the abyss 23:17:44 Leave the vampires out, I say 23:17:54 I doubt anyone will be saddened by their absense 23:18:29 the "non-natives" list seems oddly limited 23:18:47 I think it would make sense for that list to be rather long, and have representatives from the game's major branches 23:19:01 they'd be rarer than native abyss monsters, though 23:20:09 evilmike: k. I'll throw in merfolk, naga, elephants, yak, crocodiles, and so on. 23:20:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:20:45 The weight for all of those should be really tiny if there's a lot of them, though 23:20:57 DracoOmega: we can upweight everything else 23:21:06 Well, same difference. I just mean in proportion 23:21:21 the important thing is just that they exist. after all, you're not the only thing that's gotten banished 23:22:52 you could even dip into unimplemented branches (already done with dwarf). I'm thinking spriggan monsters 23:23:14 except for druids, since those are meant for forests 23:23:38 evilmike: I was probably you, or Marvin, who strongly cautioned against including any rubbish monsters (like weak orcs). I assume this guidance stands? 23:24:04 bh: yeah 23:24:38 note that your list will actually place regular orcs. but only as part of orc bands 23:24:40 Given that one of the greatest traditional complaints against the Abyss was boredom, ideally as few encounters in it as possible should be boring 23:25:17 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:26:18 redback (05s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 9 | HP: 19-34 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 1804(strong poison) | web sense | Res: 06magic(24) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 181 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 23:26:18 %??redback 23:26:21 $??jumping spider 23:26:28 jumping spider (12s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 8 | HP: 20-44 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Dam: 2016(ensnare), 504(medium poison) | sense invisible, web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(21) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 232 | Sp: blink close, blink away | Sz: Medium | Int: insect. 23:26:28 %??jumping spider 23:26:31 I wonder if there's some significance to the fact that the _destroy_tentacle and _destroy_tentacles each destroy them in different ways 23:27:00 DracoOmega: the only thing more perverse than crawl code is business code ;) 23:27:01 demonic crawlers would be fitting in the abyss 23:28:01 bh: Yeah, the code is not exactly nightmarish like some stuff I've seen, but it's still less pleasant than would be nice. Namely that it's spread out over tons of different places, and at no point that I can see is the overall logic of how parts of this work explained. I have pieced together most of it, but some is still fuzzy 23:28:55 (Also, the tentacle code has several comments indicating the the original author didn't fully understand it, either) 23:35:14 Made a bunch of additions to the monster list: https://gitorious.org/~bhickey/crawl/bhickeys-crawl/commit/41d89179c1b759868ad75e8e522ad09b8da263f2 23:35:31 Lair might be under-represented. And I haven't included any non-Naga serpent-things 23:36:38 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [] 23:37:54 -!- ganon- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:38:09 lair isn't so important. and i like the focus on sentient monsters 23:38:25 The rarity of a few things here feels slightly odd 23:39:05 Like, currently lichs are as common (or rare?) as necoxeqs? 23:39:51 Also, I don't really like hell sentinels on this list. Less than I liked fiends (I still tend to group them together) 23:40:26 DracoOmega: I considered Ancient Liches to be sort of Lich redundant, so I down-weighted regular liches a tad 23:41:46 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:42:49 I'm not entirely sure how to read all of this, but it looks like neqoxecs got a lot rarer, liches got a decent bit more common, and hellions got a lot more common 23:43:26 give it a whirl and see how it feels? 23:43:50 I'm in the middle of several other things at the moment, but it's a fair suggestion :P 23:45:15 -!- MrBushido has quit [Quit: herpderp] 23:50:51 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:35 -!- darkpawbear has quit [Quit: Page closed]