00:00:27 monqy: glorx has invis?????? 00:00:36 last i checked....maybe it was removed 00:00:40 Gloorx Vloq (15&) | Spd: 20 | HD: 16 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(298), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: poison arrow (3d23), miasma (3d13), torment symbol, b.draining (3d20), dispel undead (3d25), invisibility | Sz: Large | Int: high. 00:00:40 %??gloorx vloq 00:00:46 still there! 00:00:51 golly 00:00:57 this is like learning that cacodemons have slow 00:01:27 or aizul can't open doors 00:03:43 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:32 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:06:27 iirc tormentors used to have torment in their escape slot, and this meant that they basically never used it 00:06:33 yeah 00:07:22 Why is escape broken? 00:08:28 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:09:22 -!- ophanim has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:31 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-661-gac138ba (34) 00:11:52 bh: it isn't broken, it's just that it only gets used when monsters are fleeing 00:12:26 are monsters ever considered fleeing for escape slot purposes now that they don't actually flee 00:12:45 <|amethyst> it can be used when they're on their last 1/3 HP, but then the escape slot is only somewhat favoured (the spell is the important thing, see _ms_low_hitpoint_cast()) 00:14:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:36 Out of curiousity, is it just a sanity check when the code checks that the monster pointed to be the tentacle segment number is itself the right kind of tentacle? Or is there some normal circumstance under which this should ever occur? 00:16:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:16:44 monqy: some monsters flee 00:16:57 right but 00:17:22 are those the monsters that have escape spells that aren't ever used 00:19:39 probably no 00:20:20 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it could be dead I suppose 00:20:32 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: maybe polymorph? 00:21:36 Well, this is in the code that passes damage from segments to the tentacle, I think 00:22:04 <|amethyst> hm 00:22:18 I would assume (barring bugs) that anything that would invalidate the tentacle itself should propogate to the segments somewhere else 00:22:30 Basically, I'm just thinking about how to unify some mostly-duplicated code here 00:24:25 But I get the impression that the chances of breaking something by accident when attempting to refactor tentacle code are... fairly considerable 00:24:40 <|amethyst> you're talking about react_to_damage here? 00:24:47 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:50 In this case, yes 00:25:06 <|amethyst> keep in mind that the krakent, tentacle, and segment call all take damage (in arbitrary order) from a single effect 00:25:20 Yes 00:25:37 I understand this is the main source of crash problems with them yes? 00:26:03 <|amethyst> well, recently it's been things like cleaving and constriction 00:26:11 <|amethyst> but yes 00:26:27 <|amethyst> (those aren't quite a single action the way, say, fireball is) 00:26:47 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:14 <|amethyst> melee especially is weird because it postpones monster death... but that doesn't postpone the death of the head (and therefore the tentacle) when you hurt the tentacle 00:28:44 <|amethyst> I think handling that properly would fix most of the recent bugs 00:29:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29:34 Oh, are there still outstanding bugs related to this? 00:29:48 <|amethyst> probably 00:30:00 Well, KNOWN ones, anyway. At least some were fixed recently, yes? 00:31:08 <|amethyst> I fixed one in 00:31:19 <|amethyst> %git c3456a1f 00:31:19 |amethyst * 0.12-a0-429-gc3456a1: Bleed as a final effect. (3 weeks ago, 3 files, 16+ 6-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/c3456a1f7d88 00:31:31 <|amethyst> I doubt that was all of them 00:32:05 <|amethyst> in particular, that's pre-cleave 00:32:19 Well, maybe some wider good will come out of starspawn, then? 00:32:26 <|amethyst> :) 00:32:26 (I'll be happy enough just not to break anything further >.>) 00:32:33 <|amethyst> I think the checks should stay 00:33:02 Probably, yes. Besides, they can be refactored in another way 00:33:28 Something like _is_matching_parent(mon1, mon2) that works with each type of tentacle and segment 00:33:43 <|amethyst> you can do something like tentacle_base_type(mtype), tentacle_type(mtype) instead of MONS_KRAKEN, MONS_KRAKEN_TENTACLE 00:33:48 <|amethyst> yeah 00:34:25 <|amethyst> one problem is that eldritch tentacles are wierd 00:34:33 They do seem to be somewhat different 00:34:56 <|amethyst> because they don't have a base (or, the tentacle itself is the base) 00:35:52 <|amethyst> also note that the connections are somewhat illogical: it goes segment -> tentacle -> body despite their spatial orientation 00:36:39 Well, that does make a certain kind of sense, given that tentacles can exist WITHOUT segments 00:36:44 If they're adjacent to the body 00:36:55 And segments don't DO anything 00:37:25 <|amethyst> yeah 00:38:29 kilobyte: i started on rebasing lava orcs; i'm up to march of this year 00:38:40 that is, lava orc commits from march of this year 00:38:56 however there is some icky stuff that i need to manually redo 00:39:06 like i think the way xp apts work changed 00:40:12 also the vampire (/lava orc) A! menu 00:40:25 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:34 yes, xp apts are on the normal scale now 00:40:35 !apt xp 00:40:36 Could not understand "xp" 00:40:37 !apt exp 00:40:38 Exp: Ce: -1, DD: -1, DE: -1, Dg: -2*, Dr: -1, Dr[black]: -1, Dr[green]: -1, Dr[grey]: -1, Dr[mottled]: -1, Dr[pale]: -1, Dr[purple]: -1, Dr[red]: -1, Dr[white]: -1, Dr[yellow]: -1, Ds: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: 0, Ha: 1!, HE: -1, HO: 0, Hu: 1!, Ko: 1!, Mf: 0, Mi: -1, Mu: -1, Na: 0, Og: 0, Op: 0, SE: 0, Sp: -1, Te: 0, Tr: -1, Vp: -1 00:40:55 If I manage to make it through this in one piece, some of the other abyssal monsters ought to be a breeze by comparison :P 00:41:20 elliott: well, yes, but the problem is more that the function it's in changed 00:41:23 and i don't know where it is now 00:41:41 ??lava orc todo 00:41:41 I don't have a page labeled lava_orc_todo in my learndb. 00:41:44 ??lorc todo 00:41:45 lorc todo[1/7]: Orcish weapons/armor/beogh stuff 00:42:03 i'm cherry picking rather than rebasing, so i'm just skipping some stuff and noting that 00:42:30 This is not the most encouraging comment in the tentacle code 00:42:53 .// Why do I have to do this move? I don't get it. 00:44:21 -!- elliott has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:34 -!- ophanim1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:28 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 01:22:35 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:01 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:24 -!- Rewans has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:26:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:29:44 -!- Achlys has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:46:32 -!- F-Glex has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:22 -!- piss has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:23 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:22 -!- whig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:43 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:29 -!- MrDamm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:26 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:24:27 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:54 -!- yahhmm has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:33:57 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:58 -!- indspenceable has left ##crawl-dev 02:34:00 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:06 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:26 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 02:37:03 -!- Keratin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:40 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:54 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:42 -!- eb has quit [] 02:51:04 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 02:53:53 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:59:10 -!- Jacobe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:59:56 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:07:07 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:21 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:34 Wasn't there this new Ctrl-F prefix? 03:08:35 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:19 what? 03:14:10 @search term 03:14:20 if I recall correctly... also good morning 03:14:29 hi :) 03:15:59 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:00 I think this prefix restricts search to the current level 03:17:27 oh right, elliptic added something like that 03:18:29 I thought I'd seen a help screen update in the commit, but now I couldn't find it 03:18:59 sorry, my bad... obsolete version 03:19:39 %git 4fbd7af9 03:19:39 elliptic * 0.12-a0-611-g4fbd7af: Provide a shortcut for restricting stash searches to the current level. (6 days ago, 3 files, 15+ 15-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/4fbd7af92c7d 03:19:57 0.12-a0-611-g4fbd7af 03:20:14 @(pattern) lists everything matching (pattern) on your current level. 03:20:24 in Ctrl-F ? -- sorry for confusion! 03:28:05 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:33 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:10 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:49 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:48 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:51:15 -!- Choko5 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:52:05 -!- Choko5_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:18 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:27 -!- ZombieChicken has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:55:47 oh, Choko5 is here 04:02:46 I have a feeling that wpnnoise.txt would read much better with a few changes. 04:07:05 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 04:10:19 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:10:40 galehar * 0.12-a0-663-gf1a675d: Change cleave parameters to use attacker actor instead of pos. (8 minutes ago, 5 files, 13+ 11-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/f1a675d44fd5 04:10:40 galehar * 0.12-a0-662-gd1b7b62: Fix cleaving being able to attack rock worm (#6268). (16 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/d1b7b627a9c6 04:14:38 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:14:43 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:27 -!- DracoOmega_ has quit [] 04:18:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:25:09 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:59 -!- Grildrak has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:14 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 04:37:13 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:40:08 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:48:52 -!- CaptainPickles has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:55:36 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-661-gac138ba 05:15:43 -!- domi_ has quit [Quit: さようなら] 05:18:53 building Crawl for the first time in ages 05:20:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:13 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 05:26:58 -!- Choko5 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:27 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:56 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:07 Singing Sword does not work very well atm. 05:45:50 -!- eurtek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:47:12 dpeg * 0.12-a0-664-g7473279: Singing Sword speech lines (forum) (4 minutes ago, 1 file, 181+ 7-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/74732796e66a 05:56:11 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:56:41 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:30 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:05 -!- kwel01 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:09:13 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 06:09:52 haha, torchlight 2 06:10:02 unique item: the broken ring 06:10:08 the ring that is strictly better than all other rings 06:10:23 someone sure was having fun with that description :) 06:15:06 alefury: is Torchlight 2 good? 06:19:43 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:10 -!- DainHome has quit [Changing host] 06:23:43 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:45 dpeg: I'd say it's fun. 06:35:11 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:05 its okay, yeah 06:40:21 some really stupid design details, but fun 06:41:20 ah, thx for reply 06:41:46 -!- Ilirion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:41:49 I saw how Torchlight dealt with the problem of full inventories and thought that was fun. 06:42:46 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:48 yeah, thats one of the best parts 06:44:11 the dumb parts are things like buffs that last 12 seconds and have 12 seconds cooldown, and negligible mana cost 06:44:29 i mean seriously, its worse than buffs in crawl 06:45:47 what is bad about 12 seconds cooldown? 06:46:11 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:12 plase press this button every 12 seconds to enjoy benefits 06:46:14 12 cooldown + 12 active = can keep it running all the time but have to keep pressing a button 06:46:17 its fucking stupid 06:46:25 tome has this same problem 06:46:35 well, crawl has it too :) 06:46:53 ah, I assumed there would have to be 12 seconds of pause between uses :) 06:48:39 still pretty annoying, theres a bunch of those skills too 06:49:04 mainly the interaction with the rest of stuff is the problem 06:49:12 killing a whole bunch of dudes takes maybe 5 seconds 06:49:28 on difficulty 3 of 4 06:49:47 Buffs are mundane, nitty-gritty design. Back to randomised gods. 06:50:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:38 * dpeg is preparing a miniature kit for random gods. 06:50:54 torchlight 2 has portal vaults btw :) 06:51:17 alefury: How does it work? Is there randomisation? 06:52:13 you enter the portal (no timeout, but disappears when you leave), then theres some kind of randomized mini challenge thingy depending on what part of the game you are in 06:52:33 nice 06:52:54 usually its some kind of arena type thing 06:53:08 that reminds me of the missing Zig arena :( 06:54:14 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:18 dolorous * 0.12-a0-665-g9211612: Add spelling fixes. (in the future, 3 files, 5+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/921161296685 06:59:44 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:26 in the future? 07:00:52 future dolorous is sending spelling fix commits back in time 07:02:35 he just keeps getting better :) 07:22:20 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:45 dolorous * 0.12-a0-666-g839d1cc: Add wording and punctuation fixes to new Singing Sword lines. (77 seconds ago, 1 file, 10+ 9-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/839d1ccbdb6e 07:41:23 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:11 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:52:38 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:08 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:49 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:44 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:26:08 ??dolorous 08:26:09 dolorous[1/1]: despite never being on IRC, has an uncanny tendancy to react to things people say in ##crawl-dev 08:26:37 !learn add dolorous dolorous * 0.12-a0-665-g9211612: Add spelling fixes. (in the future, 3 files, 5+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/921161296685 08:26:37 dolorous[2/2]: dolorous * 0.12-a0-665-g9211612: Add spelling fixes. (in the future, 3 files, 5+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/921161296685 08:51:04 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:41 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:59 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:30 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:24:19 -!- frogbotherer has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:20 -!- dagonfive1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:56 -!- minqmay is now known as the_glow 09:26:05 -!- the_glow is now known as minqmay 09:28:55 -!- phrzn is now known as piss 09:31:58 -!- znarf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:35:27 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:54 -!- naalis has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 09:37:58 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:38:03 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 09:46:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:07 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:07:19 -!- frogbotherer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:30 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:50 has anyone else taken a look at the lurking horror patch? 10:11:01 seems like maybe it's too easy to just shake them off in the abyss from my brief testing 10:11:28 but i like the idea, could just add them and if necessary speed them up or make them more likely to chase later on 10:17:12 -!- st_ has quit [] 10:26:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:33:39 -!- F-Glex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:47 -!- us17 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:40:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:01 did you test with currentabyss or newnewabyss? 10:44:11 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 10:44:26 currentnewabyss 10:44:58 inception is a pretty nice name for newnewabyss imo 10:45:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:34 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 10:45:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51:19 isn't it ready to be merged btw? I think bh said it was stable and playable 10:53:47 -!- pointsofdata has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 10:53:59 last time I playtested it the depth scaling needed work 10:54:09 the monster generation didn't scale at all between depths 10:54:12 or at least didn't seem to 11:01:04 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:13 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05:25 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:20 -!- Alucard__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:40 elliott: that's not a reason not to merge it 11:10:51 seems like it would already be an improvement 11:11:50 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:00 would anyone object to Nellie turning up in the Abyss? 11:13:07 i think nellie is fine as just a sprint thing 11:13:22 Nellie (13Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Dam: 4507(trample), 20, 15 | 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(133), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4813 | Sp: fire breath (3d40), blink | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 11:13:22 %??nellie 11:13:49 Even Abyss:27? 11:14:50 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:53 galehar: well the rune/exit frequency *does* increase 11:15:03 regular hellephants are plenty awesome anyway 11:15:28 sure, but delerium tremens has a special place in my heart 11:15:37 nellie is just a regular hellephant with more hp, anyway 11:15:37 HangedMan: You have 8 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:15:43 sigh 11:15:47 elliott: if it's in trunk, this will give motivation to tweak monster spawning 11:16:00 more unique in the abyss sounds good 11:17:46 galehar: being that there are no uniques apart from the ones you send there 11:17:59 the thing is that hellephants are almost unique to the abyss anyway and nellie isn't unique from said hellephants 11:18:21 unknown monster: "killer clown" 11:18:21 %??killer clown 11:18:21 abyss should get a modified transdimensional hellspider instead if it needs uniques 11:18:23 klown 11:18:27 Killer Klown (05@) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 126-178 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(160) | XP: 6868 | Sp: blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:18:27 %??killer klown 11:18:52 Is a klown actually more dangerous than a hellephant? 11:18:57 but nellie's tile is hilarious :) 11:19:04 ^ that :) 11:19:09 klowns do less damage 11:19:19 but are faster and also have klown brand 11:19:33 there is already a circus vault for zot 11:19:44 klowns can be berserked and are surrounded by various other incredibly scary things etc 11:20:43 i think just trimming the dumb stuff out of the current abyss list and gradually adding new monsters is probably a good approach 11:21:13 MarvinPA: mostly completely agree. I'll scrub the list on my branch 11:21:46 -!- radiolit has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:43 i'd like to see less deep dwarf and drac packs mainly (why on earth do deep dwarves only live in the abyss) 11:22:58 MarvinPA: zig!!!!! 11:23:00 And I have a hatred for undead. 11:23:03 tengu also 11:23:10 bh: what, all undead 11:23:29 elliott: no. I just don't think the abyss should have zombies, skeletons, and skeletal warriors 11:24:11 the occasional orc/elf/drac/dwarf/whatever pack seems fine but the way it is currently with just a very limited group of player species packs arbitrarily showing up in the abyss is... weird 11:24:26 ynoxinul (113) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 12 | 05demonic, 10doors, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 198 | Sp: iron shot (3d16), ufetubus | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 11:24:26 %??ynoxinul 11:24:44 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:50 in the case of tengu/octopode/dwarf i think it's just because the monsters were added and don't spawn anywhere else (except zig or whatever) which seems like not a very good reason 11:26:45 Angels are more common than Tentacled Monstrosities. 11:28:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:36 bh: good idea (trimming abyss monsters on your branch) 11:30:41 feel free to add nellie ;) 11:30:52 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 11:32:27 and why are Naga so darn common? 11:34:01 iron devil (104) | Spd: 8 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-58 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Dam: 14, 14 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 324 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:34:01 %??iron devil 11:37:44 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:44 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-668-g1c984df: Remove bumblebees (48 minutes ago, 21 files, 21+ 61-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/1c984df8f4b3 11:39:44 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-667-g6d82263: Increase Tukima's Dance to level 5, scale the weapons up to max power faster (9 minutes ago, 5 files, 15+ 33-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/6d822633cb7f 11:46:19 galehar: rather than trying to shuffle monsters around, I'm going to rip everything out and build it back from scratch. Why do Sixfirhy's have the same weighting as Bone Dragons? 11:46:55 given how the current monster list is some kind of random garbage, that sounds like a good plan 11:47:46 I could also add a depth curve for each monster/grouping of monsters 11:48:17 5's on Abyss:5 are like rats on D:20 11:48:53 you get 5's on abyss 5, and 6's on abyss 6, and trees on abyss 7 11:49:08 on abyss 10 are executioners and hundreds of orbs of zot 11:49:16 Wensley: orb mimics. 11:49:34 we have em, might as well use em 11:50:40 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:42 sounds like a Zot:5 vault 11:50:49 btw, can you remove Abyss >5? Seems weird that it exists but is uterly irrelevant 11:51:06 nobody would go there 11:51:13 unless they made a mistake 11:51:16 galehar: yes. The rationale offered by the proponents was that diving to A:27 would be good banner fodder 11:51:52 hmm, why not 11:51:53 <|amethyst> it seems like it would be kind of hard to make monster frequency scaling work all the way from Abyss:1 to Abyss:2 11:51:57 fun though it would be, that on its own isn't a very good rationale :P 11:51:59 <|amethyst> to Abyss:27 11:52:17 i think 5ish is plenty, yeah 11:52:20 <|amethyst> i.e. if the hardest monsters only appear below Abyss:20 no one will realistically see them 11:52:34 |amethyst: just make a continuous distribution for everything, of course! 11:52:35 <|amethyst> but if they appear much earlier, how is Abyss:20 any different 11:52:48 |amethyst: denser monsters, less "popcorn" 11:52:53 i would prefer 6 to 5 11:52:59 only three levels with a rune chance is a little low imo 11:53:03 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:09 <|amethyst> bh: but then Abyss:4 and Abyss:1 are likely not to be very different 11:54:11 either that or 7... 6 and 7 seem to be the traditional length for diving branches :p 11:54:14 <|amethyst> I guess you could use a non-linear curve 11:54:28 |amethyst: yeah. Quick ramp up, slow decay 11:54:50 <|amethyst> but if Abyss:20 and Abyss:21 are so similar, I'm not sure there's much point 11:55:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:15 ha. That's a bug. I took stairs down and ended up in a vault. 11:56:21 surrounded by storm dragons. 11:56:55 that doesn't sound like a bug 11:57:18 assuming this is about the abyss 11:57:22 seems consistent with the rest of the game 11:57:54 elliott: murdering the player is impolite. As a teacher once told me "When a student fails a test, he should feel like it's his fault." 11:58:40 that's not really murder 11:58:55 just homicide 11:58:55 vaults aren't kept away from upstairs anywhere else in the game, and that's a feature 11:59:07 heck, there is a specific vault designed to surround you with monsters when you go downstairs (evilmike_ambush) 11:59:25 elliott: this is a runed door murder vault. 11:59:45 It's silent and filled with Giants, Storm Dragons or Hellephants 11:59:50 <|amethyst> bh: just respect no_rtele_into when choosing where the player comes out 11:59:55 <|amethyst> and add that to that vault 12:00:05 <|amethyst> or to the part behind the runed door anyway 12:00:29 <|amethyst> same thing used for shafts in the rest of the dungeon 12:00:42 elliott: stairs don't enter the middle of vaults anywhere else unless it is specifically intended (ambushes) 12:00:56 |amethyst: most vaults don't have that though... shafting into vaults is highly acceptable 12:01:04 just not taking regular stairs into them 12:01:05 elliptic: yeah, but you can still have dangerous vaults really close to stairs 12:01:08 how are rarity and level functions used? 12:01:08 <|amethyst> aren't abyssal stairs more like shafts? 12:01:10 and also abyssal stairs are more like hatches or shafts 12:01:16 <|amethyst> s/shafts/hatches/ 12:01:18 because there is no way back up... they are inherently a dangerous leap 12:01:31 that said, runed door vaults should probably have no_rtele_into or something 12:01:42 why? 12:02:12 well, if the purpose of runed doors is to stop people entering a dangerous area without being warned about it, which is what people seem to treat them as 12:02:20 (for certain values of dangerous at least) 12:02:26 -!- ark_____ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:52 elliott: they are supposed to stop people from autoexploring in, that's all 12:02:53 <|amethyst> there is a difference between the two cases, though 12:02:59 <|amethyst> what elliptic said 12:03:04 teleport being dangerous is fine, hatches and shafts being dangerous is fine 12:03:14 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:25 no_rtele shouldn't be overused... it is mainly to stop people from getting trapped, if a vault has disconnected pieces 12:04:14 well, the current use of runed doors seems to be inconsistent enough that I'm not really sure exactly what they are meant to be used for :p 12:04:16 the situation in abyss is a bit different, of course... I'd say that the abyssal stairs should behave more like stairs than like shafts/hatches and never land you inside vaults 12:04:23 since you have no alternative to them 12:04:25 stopping autoexploring in is a reasonable such use though of course 12:04:33 <|amethyst> hm 12:04:42 <|amethyst> banishment doesn't put you in a vault, right? 12:04:48 not landing you in vaults sounds OK but it should be able to put you very near a vault 12:05:10 <|amethyst> treat abyssal stairs like banishment then 12:05:16 |amethyst: I think that's right, not sure though 12:05:18 I don't like special-casing wherever yo uend up after using a staircase to be safe... brogue does this (you never see any monsters when you go downstairs) and I think ti makes the game less interesting 12:05:19 <|amethyst> which I guess was the intent, hence "bug" 12:05:42 elliott: nobody is talking about being safe 12:05:43 |amethyst: how's this for a depth function: min level, peak level, absolute frequency, half-life. Do some interpolation on frequency between min and peak, then decay according to half-life 12:05:46 <|amethyst> it's not just a matter of safe 12:05:59 |amethyst: abyssal stairs use the same code as banishment. I'm not sure why I got a miss in this case 12:06:09 <|amethyst> you could land right on top of the rune for example 12:06:23 elliptic: well, bh said it was bad because it murdered the player, which sounded like a safety concern to me 12:06:34 <|amethyst> though I guess you could get lucky with Branch:4 escape hatch too 12:06:43 elliott: I have no complaint with murdering the player. I have a problem with doing it capriciously 12:06:46 elliott: yes, being safe and not being murdered are different :P 12:06:56 <|amethyst> bh: this is a function from what to what? 12:07:07 elliott: there are plenty of dangerous situations you can be in without being surrounded by a vault 12:07:13 |amethyst: abyss depth -> monster frequency 12:07:37 <|amethyst> bh: independent of the monster? 12:07:45 elliott: as I see it, the point is that we don't want to discourage going down these abyssal stairs that much 12:07:51 |amethyst: no, each mob would be parameterized separately 12:07:54 <|amethyst> oh 12:08:13 <|amethyst> seems like a lot of parameters 12:08:15 since we don't want people to just stay in abyss:1 forever because they are scared of going down a stair into the middle of a vault 12:08:17 bh: maybe check the mon-pick branch 12:08:23 5's could get: Min level 1, peak level: 2, half-life 3, frequency 50. 12:08:25 galehar: k 12:08:45 min level probably shouldn't be a thing that exists 12:08:50 <|amethyst> not that that's necessarily bad, but if you're going to parameterise it so heavily it should be suitable for use in mon-pick everywhere 12:09:22 all the dangerous stuff should be able to show up from 1 onwards 12:09:49 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: so greater nagas should show up on Snake:1 ? 12:09:53 in abyss 12:10:52 <|amethyst> I mean, why should it be different for Abyss 12:11:11 <|amethyst> given that you won't be able to get the rune by hanging out on Abyss:1 12:11:12 yeah, we don't want a situation where people are spoiled and are carefully staying on abyss:3 because something they can't handle starts on abyss:4 12:11:19 the min level should be the earliest level the rune can spawn at least, then 12:11:32 maybe have some things that start where the rune starts, yes... I don't like any other breakpoints 12:11:34 <|amethyst> yeah, that's reasonable 12:11:41 galehar: it looks like kilo is doing something similar, he's just using different distributinos 12:11:53 as long as this is making abyss:3 harder rather than abyss:1 easier monsters that start with the rune sounds good 12:12:45 for now, I'll just scrub the list and once mon-pick gets merged I'll rewrite it 12:13:37 <|amethyst> I haven't looked at the mon-pick rewrite... is stuff getting put into tables instead of code? 12:13:49 <|amethyst> because I was thinking that would be a good idea where possible 12:13:58 |amethyst: not really, I think it's a struct 12:14:07 it's much more readable though 12:14:35 galehar: should be easy to build those structs from data 12:15:31 structs are tables imo :p 12:15:57 anything that doesn't force a recompile is nicer than anything that does 12:16:27 <|amethyst> I was including structs when I said "tables", yes 12:18:14 |amethyst: can you sanity check this: rarity - pow(2, abs(peak - you.depth) / half) 12:18:55 oh. half is backward 12:20:14 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:17 <|amethyst> what is the size of rarity? 12:20:29 <|amethyst> your number is going to go negative eventually 12:20:52 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:28 <|amethyst> if "half" is short for "half-life", shouldn't it work like a half-life? 12:22:10 <|amethyst> rarity * (1 - pow(2, -abs(peak - you.depth) / half)) 12:22:23 <|amethyst> err 12:22:26 <|amethyst> that's wrong too 12:22:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:46 <|amethyst> rarity * pow(2, -abs(peak - you.depth) / half) 12:23:03 <|amethyst> so it's == rarity at peak, and goes to zero as you get further 12:23:29 <|amethyst> float(half) 12:23:49 <|amethyst> since I suspect we'd rather have it scale smoothly than use integer division there 12:24:57 <|amethyst> (then again, you might want to check on the performance implications of doing floating-point pow() that frequently 12:25:31 <|amethyst> since this would presumably happen for every possible monster type every time an abyssal monster is picked) 12:28:12 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:28:21 -!- Alleycat86 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 12:32:03 -!- darkpawbear_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:34:05 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:23 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 12:35:39 |amethyst: I seriously doubt a few hundred floating point operations are going to take any appreciable time, even on the low-powered Android devices Crawl supports 12:41:48 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:41:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:42:22 clearly dcss needs to be rewritten in assembly for performance 12:43:29 <|amethyst> yeah, you're probably right 12:43:34 -!- Jacobe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:43:38 <|amethyst> it's not something that happens many times a turn 12:44:33 <|amethyst> BlastHardcheese: offload monster AI to the GPU 12:45:13 <|amethyst> The shade clips your far plane! You have died. 12:49:59 -!- Grildrak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:51:24 -!- Alucard__ has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:33 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:55:36 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:50 |amethyst: Your projection matrix is wrong! Save versus death. 12:56:47 |amethyst: I'll do hermite polynomail interpolation for frequencies below peak. It should give nicer results 12:58:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:59:14 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 13:10:28 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:13 <|amethyst> "You put on the polynomail. You feel rooted in complexity." 13:12:39 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:23 |amethyst: A square root appear. The square root hits you for an irrational amount of damage. 13:13:34 -!- ark_____ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:14:00 do we have a random rounding function lying around? 13:14:20 <|amethyst> div_rand_round 13:20:16 <|amethyst> (:tag div_round_rand finds the version for random_vars first for me; you want the one in random.cc instead) 13:20:54 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:02 unknown monster: "midge" 13:21:02 %??midge 13:21:08 what's a midge 13:21:10 unknown monster: "midge" 13:21:10 <|amethyst> %?midge 13:21:21 elliott: evil wiki 13:21:33 <|amethyst> %git a6aae9 13:22:10 MarvinPA * 0.11-a0-2470-ga6aae95: Remove midges (3 months ago, 14 files, 17+ 53-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a6aae95c131f 13:22:10 what's a wiki :P 13:22:10 elliott: a place for bad_ideas 13:22:39 midge (095) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 806(blink self) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(8), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 13:22:39 <|amethyst> %0.10?midge 13:22:50 <|amethyst> oh, I forgot I upgraded %? to 0.11 13:22:52 crimson imp (055) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-18 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Dam: 4 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fly, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(36), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 48 | Sp: blink | Sz: little | Int: normal. 13:22:52 %??crimson imp 13:25:00 -!- Ilirion has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:05 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:46 |amethyst: https://gist.github.com/0ae2b790bbd7f65b29bc I think this is a step in the right direction 13:32:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:48 ??insubstantial wisp 13:36:49 insubstantial wisp[1/1]: Insubstantial wisps are like a screaming monkey on your windshield, It's unlikely to kill you directly But all you can see is the monkey 13:36:57 insubstantial wisp (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 6-18 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 1206(blink self) | 11non-living, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 80 | Sp: blink | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 13:36:57 %??insubstantial wisp 13:39:30 hell hound (11h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Dam: 13 | 05demonic, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 147 | Sp: flame blast (3d10) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 13:39:30 %??hell hound 13:39:34 hell hog (04h) | Spd: 14 | HD: 11 | HP: 42-78 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 20 | 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(44), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 984 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d5) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 13:39:34 %??hell hog 13:42:39 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:02 -!- Ilirion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:47:38 unknown monster: "pit fiend" 13:47:38 %??pit fiend 13:47:38 -!- Benhimself has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:21 Pit Fiend (071) | Spd: 8 | HD: 19 | HP: 98-145 | AC/EV: 17/5 | Dam: 28, 21, 21 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(304), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4492 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), melee, torment symbol | Sz: Large | Int: high. 13:49:21 <|amethyst> %0.10? pit fiend 13:49:37 no such thing as a pit fiend in 0.11+ 13:49:40 ??hell sentinel 13:49:41 hell sentinel[1/3]: Replacement for pit fiends. Lots of AC, omniresistant, speed 10 to pit fiend's speed 8, spiny, casts hellfire and iron shot (but not torment). 13:49:50 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:51:13 -!- hangedman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:50 -!- sacredchao has quit [Changing host] 13:51:53 -!- domi is now known as domi__ 13:51:54 -!- shmup has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:51:54 -!- shmuppy has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:53:25 I suppose _after_ somebody working on abyss notices the general that I should note there are 3 tvs where people are banished right into a vault and die there 13:54:26 the first tv even had the player inside a wall 13:54:47 hangedman: yeah. That's bad. 13:55:41 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:56:53 bug with banishment itself more then an issue of extra danger with abyssal stairs (and diving itself is already dangerous) 13:57:03 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:13 abyssal stairs use identical mechanics to banishment. Fix one, fix the other. 14:01:00 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:04 glowing shapeshifter (03J) | Spd: 5-18 | HD: 11 | HP: 23-95 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 22 | 10doors, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(88), 12drown | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 470 | Sp: (random) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 14:01:04 %??glowing shapeshifter 14:01:13 shapeshifter (07d) | Spd: 5-30 | HD: 10 | HP: 3-109 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 15 | 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 373 | Sp: (random) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:01:13 %??shapeshifter 14:01:15 -!- hangedman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:11 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:52 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:55 -!- borisboris has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:49 -!- colluphid has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:40:44 -!- namad8 has quit [] 14:45:00 -!- Neoxx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:19 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:16 Abyss:27 is a scary place. I've boosted the spawn rate and everything that pops out seems to be an ancient lich, demon, or dragon 14:52:47 sounds like fun 14:54:35 -!- Pang_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:55:50 sounds like there should still only be 5 floors :P 14:59:05 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:01:06 -!- wasd22 has quit [Quit: You slip out of the net!] 15:01:58 -!- ark____ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:01 -!- ark_____ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:46 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:06:14 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:27 |amethyst: I've pushed abyss scaling and the new monster list to my branch, could you pull it upstream? 15:07:09 -!- jvj24601 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:50 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 15:11:38 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:47 -!- Isabel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:13:26 golden eyes should probably stay on the list, those are pretty good at killing people 15:13:36 and forcing consumable usage 15:13:46 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:05 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:14:43 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:44 no ufetubi at all? 15:16:09 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:17 well, there's ynoxinul 15:16:36 but ufetubi are quite good at swarming and causing movement problems when other stuff is around imo 15:17:04 also abyss:1 definitely shouldn't spawn less stuff than it does now, if i'm understanding it right it does in this patch? 15:17:24 also orcs in the abyss is just silyl :P 15:17:30 especially plain orcs and orc wizards 15:17:32 *silly 15:17:44 this mostly looks goo dthough 15:18:06 MarvinPA: int num_monsters = 15 + div_rand_round(you.depth, 3); 15:18:10 and previously it called it with 15 15:18:15 oh nevermind i had the spawn thing the wrong way round 15:18:23 i was looking at rate further down 15:18:58 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:36 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 15:21:15 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:20 bh: btw, you should probably merge master into your branch 15:26:26 since |amethyst changed the abom colour 15:27:58 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:56 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 15:33:11 -!- sacredchao is now known as stenno 15:43:38 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:47:55 -!- kwel01 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:02 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:44 does anyone here understand crawl's identify status code well enough to know why l_item_do_identified is dlua-only? 15:52:06 it feels to me like the player usually knows whether an item is identified, but I'm not sure exactly what is going on in that function 15:52:09 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:36 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:00:46 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:03 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:04:47 -!- Codrus has quit [Quit: o/] 16:07:14 -!- znarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:26 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:08:33 -!- Fhqwhgads_ is now known as Fhqwhgads 16:08:53 "pair of boots" in item spec randomly substituting bardings transfers egos (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6272) by Claws 16:09:40 -!- znarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:43 -!- us17 has quit [Changing host] 16:11:29 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:46 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:36 -!- Robot2600 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:18:53 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:53 -!- naalis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:08 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:48 bh: maybe instead of replacing the abyss nagas with abyss orcs, replace them with wizards and deep elf mages so that some people can rarely see the abyssal shafting from banishment? 16:53:17 -!- hayenne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:11 -!- znarf has quit [Quit: znarf] 16:58:41 bh: also boo I liked abyss death drakes 17:00:12 oh i didn't notice those were gone, those should definitely be a thing, yeah 17:05:09 also lost abyss rakshasas and efreeti and those were also not bad but not going to miss them too much 17:05:41 rakshasas are sort of fitting for abyss 17:05:45 but also sort of annoying 17:05:52 bh removed abyss death drakes????? 17:05:56 put those back in immediately 17:05:59 why would you remove them 17:06:01 im upset 17:06:13 golden eyeballs too???? they're annoying but 17:07:56 clearly rakshasas in general should be given random weapons so they can actually be any threat 17:08:06 rakshasas get guaranteed rod 17:09:27 doesn't really work with the loss of rod of smiting aside from getting to make even more summon spam, wand of draining's better 17:09:38 but lightning rod rakshasas 17:09:49 btw i really really like how elf:$ tends to have elves using lightning rods 17:09:52 (my plans for a rakshasa pan vault dissolved into another abyss vault) 17:09:53 it is super great 17:10:14 hooray, I get to see what if feels like to directly ruin something 17:11:26 ruiner 17:11:48 HangedManPA 17:12:00 HangedMan: what did you ruin 17:12:03 MarvinPA: whoa no need to be so vengeful about it 17:12:24 %git c3f69547bb 17:14:01 HangedMan * 0.12-a0-608-gc3f6954: Gives the no_pickup item property to the loot in Tomb/Elf:$ (7 days ago, 2 files, 8+ 15-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/c3f69547bbf2 17:14:01 MarvinPA: no need to devolve into personal attacks 17:14:01 we can all be civil here 17:14:01 i can't 17:14:01 !cheers elliott 17:14:01 * Wenzell slides a cask of brandy across the bar to elliott, on the house. 17:14:01 it's fiiiine, nobody minds if we stir up vendettas against hangedman 17:14:17 oh 17:14:21 HangedMan ruined that...............! 17:14:22 HangedMan: die 17:14:22 what!! 17:14:25 HangedMan: die 17:14:34 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:36 i mean i am ok with neatly laid out loot 17:14:43 but you should give some elves lightning rods if you do that :P 17:14:56 I really liked elves with +Lev gear levitating across the moat 17:15:31 couldn't find any objections compared to agreements from a while back, and there is something to some of elf doing that I guess 17:15:32 and also other stupid gear doing other stupid gear things &c &c 17:15:37 HangedMan: you're basically a dev now, congratulations! 17:15:39 also die 17:15:54 let the record state that i objected 17:15:56 at some point or other 17:15:59 haha 17:16:11 i don't really mind if the loot stays looty 17:16:15 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:22 but ideally some loot-generator items would be given to elves......... 17:16:25 lightning rod elves are awesome 17:16:30 elliott: clear solution is to apply this problem to the other problem of not being able to put vapours in wisp bands since they regularly burn down swamp and then make vapours cast thunderbolt 17:16:42 mainly because i was too lazy to add no_pickup there myself but also elves carrying elf loot is at least a tiny bit relevant compared to in zigs 17:17:14 has anyone here ever played smart kobold 17:17:21 imo elf should be like that 17:17:31 smart elf 17:17:32 baby elves 17:17:53 sweet, the most recent three commits start with "Remove" 17:17:56 today has been a good day 17:18:01 Not a monster spell: 'thunderbolt' 17:18:05 MarvinPA: how about "Remove the no_pickup property from the Elf:$ loot" 17:18:10 you can "streak" removals 17:18:53 just put tiny chances for great equipment for the top tier elves and then reduce th 17:19:03 wow I fond myself slowing down as I typed that 17:19:06 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 17:20:16 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-670-g7daacb1: Remove some more references to TSO permanent allies (9 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 13-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/7daacb1331c7 17:20:16 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-669-g175e105: Remove TSO's (mostly unused) holy weapon and rN+ armour blessings (11 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 122-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/175e105c54d1 17:24:42 -!- Pedjt has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30:35 -!- DainHome has quit [Quit: Dain's default quit message] 17:30:41 mostly unused...? 17:31:13 i.e. after hearing about a tukima's buff somebody started trying to think of other ways to abuse tso with it 17:31:42 ah, blessing _allies_ not you 17:32:08 oh heh yeah, should've made that clearer in the commit message :P 17:32:24 had allies on the mind 17:33:15 !tell DracoOmega Wretched Stars polymorphing monsters seems totally broken, let's have them do mutations only (and finally do that mutation-vs-polymorph fix some day...) 17:33:16 kilobyte: OK, I'll let DracoOmega know. 17:33:22 fr remove tso's mostly unused holy weapon blessing 17:34:05 what's broken about mass polymorph aside from potential not-enabled demon stuff 17:35:03 MarvinPA: as for tengu and octopodes spawning in the Abyss, I added them because all other player monsters spawn there even if they don't anywhere else (like humans -- vault-only), which kind of makes sense because of banishment 17:35:42 HangedMan: polymorph being a strong effect? Them being mutators not polymorphers? 17:36:31 oh yeah, it does seem reasonable to have them spawn there but i always thought there were only a few player species that spawned (orcs and elves never used to at least?) 17:37:02 having all player species have a small chance of showing up seems good, anyway 17:37:12 orcs would be below popcorn level in the Abyss I guess 17:38:17 when stone_soup got in I mostly just heard complaints about looking up essentially-human demigods/halflings/demonspawn/whatever 17:38:19 even the big orcs? and smite always hurts if you have enough of it 17:38:26 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:40:02 fr polymorphitis 17:42:31 can a monster player symmetry fanatic please implement selfpoly please and thank you 17:43:26 wow two pleases monqy 17:43:33 that's some solid pleasing 17:44:09 if you'd like i could throw in another thank you 17:44:10 thank you 17:44:16 thanks in advance too 17:44:56 monqy: there's that bad_forms idea 17:46:47 MarvinPA: + // Leaving Elyvilon for a non-good god neutral holies + // (originally from TSO) abandon you. 17:46:48 ChrisOelmueller: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:47:14 mass polymorph being a strong effect for a monster that otherwise only attacks with debiliating stuff if it's desired to make them be more offensive sounds fine (and if they need bands to kill they could just get unlivings/uglies) 17:47:49 -!- MattyDub has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:48:50 what 17:49:01 there's a tad bit of difference between a monster whose main shtick is temp-mutation and ones who mass-polymorphs all opposition 17:49:02 oh right 17:49:03 memories of magenta death from devwiki 17:49:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:50:22 sigh, I'm not really attached to making them have direct ways to kill anyway, I just dislike non-hostile wretched stars not doing anything and a screen-filling flash of "light" focusing solely on the player 17:51:12 who says monsters can't have mutations? 17:51:24 sanity? 17:51:27 there are few effects that would be prominent enough, but we have those 17:51:41 what's insane there? 17:51:49 (and sanity is overrated anyway) 17:52:50 a typical level 1 mutation wouldn't be noticeable on a monster, a typical level 3 one would be 17:53:40 fr monsters with wild magic 3 17:53:57 I, too, want monsters with berserkitis, teleportitis, ignite blood 17:54:57 monsters with slow heal 3 17:55:02 can't mutate ignite blood 17:55:50 demonspawn (14@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 130 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 17:55:50 %??demonspawn 17:56:16 fr demonspawn pan knights 17:57:27 existing enchs that could be turned into bad mutations without a line of code: no regen, daze, blind, mute, slow, -MR 17:57:57 there's more positive ones 17:58:18 s/turned/reused for/ 18:00:41 -!- whig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:43 -!- whig_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:45 -!- whig_ is now known as whig 18:05:21 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:24 monqy, HangedMan: I didn't remove anything from the abyss because I thought I should remove it. I removed things because I removed *everything* and haven't gotten around to putting everything back 18:08:07 alright 18:08:41 ahh 18:08:49 alright 18:09:01 so the questions are: 1) is my current spawn list sane? 2) is it straight forward enough to augment? 18:10:24 plain orcs/orc wizards in the abyss is just silly imo 18:10:40 having all player species in the abyss is ok but there are better representatives than two monsters that will be really weak by then 18:10:52 kobold power! 18:11:26 elliott: k. High priests, warlords and sorcerers only? 18:11:49 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:54 priests still have the whole smitey thing which would work if they come in packs 18:12:09 kilobyte: kobold demonologist sounds good for abyss 18:12:23 -!- anastasios_ is now known as Pedjt 18:12:26 there's probably no need to force them in just for completeness. Octopodes stand out, people would recognize an orc warlord as a monster rather than a player race. 18:13:07 merfolk would work but _someone_ just axed water from the Abyss :p 18:13:08 halflings/demonspawn/demigods/felids aren't really monsters, either 18:13:17 there are giant abyssal rivers! 18:13:23 if not doing every species for completeness then i'd just remove orcs altogether 18:13:30 one layout, yeah 18:13:42 but i don't think there's inherently a problem with having all the species in the abyss if rare enough... the monster list needs to be less repetitive anyway 18:13:43 I would rather have branch reps over species reps 18:14:03 I can think of a final solution of the halfling question. 18:14:34 halfling hailstormers as the arcane marksman monster, yes, I agree 18:15:10 kilobyte: I didn't *axe* water. The current generator just doesn't have it in yet 18:15:13 demonspawn and demigods would have to be coded first, current placeholders work well enough for show_player_species and for a silly entry vault exhibit, but nothing more 18:15:59 please don't re-add water 18:16:04 at least not to the main chaotic layout 18:16:47 elliott: to make water even less relevant outside of Shoals? 18:16:54 elliott: I'd like to include the current abyss as a layout 18:16:56 even Swamp is mostly dry these days 18:17:24 for values of "mostly dry" equivalent to "water everywhere on the lowest levels and still significant amounts on :1"... 18:18:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:18:17 -!- Kalir_ is now known as Kalir 18:18:38 what is bad about water in the abyss, out of curiosity 18:18:49 whig: it annoys people who can't fly. 18:18:59 water has been phasing out because big pools that block getting around to the monster entirely just trigger the whole "it is annoying that autoexplore stops and you can see something you might not be able to do anything about" that trees and glass get hated for 18:19:01 it annoys people who can fly too 18:19:07 zf zf zf zf zf zf 18:19:13 also you can autoexplore well with it 18:19:52 it is not like people go wading through shallow water for long periods of time in the abyss without flight and get to experience the joys of fumbling 18:20:02 smaller pools that work as an actually tactical thing are a lot better then nothing but water everywhere and it is a nice vault thing I've been using 18:20:03 you just avoid it as much as possible and mash 5 if you get hemmed in by deep water 18:20:14 so it is basically just an annoyance 18:20:33 it works in shoals because it's not just random chaos... there's the whole hut design, the tide, etc. 18:20:51 it works in swamp (well, if it does work in swamp) because the levels are fixed 18:21:01 so you don't really get a choice as to whether you cross some water 18:21:30 clear solution is to make any water that appears in abyss just tiny pools always bordered by land and not have morphing create any water 18:21:48 ew...? 18:21:53 yaktaurs behind small pools of water, best new feature 18:22:03 i'd rather have that entire subvault flooded :P 18:22:03 although that's not very chaotic 18:22:26 anyway current abyss as a layout sound sreally bad unless it's very rare 18:22:28 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:33 since current abyss really isn't any fun at all to navigate, sorry 18:24:51 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:59 elliott: write a new layout :) 18:25:51 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: auf wiedersehen] 18:27:28 I mean seriously. Not trollingly. If you have some ideas, either implement them, or tell me about them so I can 18:27:36 current abyss being a horrible melange to deal with was the impetus for some of this abyss stuff in the first place, if it's imported into inception it should be quite a ways controlled and specific 18:28:08 * elliott doesn't really have any concrete suggestions re: terrain gen... I like cellular automata-y stuff but that's a bit vague 18:28:32 big, warped, wavering rings of constantly morphing abyss surrounding mostly open calm areas, or something 18:28:54 (and by constantly I mean current constantly) 18:29:52 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:34 -!- ark_____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:07 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:38:39 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:19 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:53 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:23 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:50:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:51:23 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:53:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:55:00 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:35 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:51 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!] 19:02:26 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:43 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 19:24:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:17 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:35 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 19:25:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:13 kilobyte: I admit that I was personally dubious about mass polymorph as well, for a couple reasons 19:27:14 DracoOmega: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:27:28 Time paradox! Answering a message before you recieve it 19:28:30 At least some of it from a flavor standpoint (though the normal poly spell suffers from similar problems, of course) 19:29:10 I've got to wonder if there's something neutral/allied wretched stars could do without having to implement monster mutations to go with it 19:29:20 I do think that the vast majority of bad mutations would be unnoticable on monsters, though 19:29:31 Even slow healing 3 (which is terrible for players) would rarely be noticed 19:29:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:29:58 berserkitis and teleportitis could be beneficial for the monster 19:30:12 Berserkitis is probably MORE likely to be useful than harmful to a monster 19:30:59 Slow movement could be moderately relevant, but even so 19:32:47 Like, any reasonably comprehensive implementation of monster mutations is going to be a lot of stuff going on under the hood for limited visible effect, I think. So some solution that has similar flavor-wise functionality but simpler and more impactful surface realization is probably better 19:33:23 Oh no! The deep elf blademaster got -1 dex and lost 1 EV! 19:34:15 would probably have to involve at minimum changing the flavour of the wretched star radiating to focus on the player 19:34:23 DracoOmega: I rewrote the abyss pick monster 19:34:50 bh: I haven't even really looked at the old one, to be honest 19:34:54 -!- Achlys has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:07 It has a fixed monster list that's largely full of random crap. 19:35:16 -!- whig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:19 This list stops spawning imps after a certain depth 19:35:32 HangedMan: Honestly, I think it might be okay to just give non-native monsters some sort of stronger non-mutation debuff that could still be attributed to 'corruptive energies' 19:35:35 -!- whig_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:37 -!- whig_ is now known as whig 19:35:48 mmm 19:36:01 Who's to say it corrupts everything in exactly the same way, after all? 19:36:03 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:36:52 It might probably be best if these are debuffs that the player can't get normally, though. Or you might need to explain why you don't 19:38:14 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:39:00 Remember also that this probably isn't going to be something that even happens in a relevant way all that often, given that it only affects non-natives of the Abyss 19:39:50 Though the mass polymorph one might have been fun to abuse with vaults and grates :P 19:41:25 well, I was thinking of corruption and potential xom and lucy stuff 19:42:25 Yeah 19:49:36 HangedMan: the god's name is "lugonu" 19:49:38 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 19:49:39 do you even play this game? 19:51:13 wensley: did you have to secretly look it up so you didn't misspell it 19:53:00 nah, I remember lugonu because she's the third wheel of xin and general tso 19:53:09 xin 19:53:51 Wensley: Lucy is married to Rickie. 19:54:17 makhleb is ralph and kiku is ethel 19:54:47 Well, I think I am now going to start to take a stab at the great tentacle refactoring 19:55:15 hopefully in stopping all old crash sources it doesn't produce new ones! 19:55:51 Well, I have to admit that I'm somewhat less interested in stopping all old crashes as making tentacled starspawn work out right, but it would be nice if there was a positive side effect! 19:57:55 -!- Pang_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:58:20 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:10 -!- BurningLed has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:00 -!- JackRogers has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:14 !apt hu 20:22:15 Hu: Air: 0, Armour: 0, Axes: 0, Bows: 0, Charms: 0, Conj: 0, Xbows: 0, Dodge: 0, Earth: 0, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, Fighting: 0, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, HP: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 1, Long: 0, Maces: 0, MP: 0, Nec: 0, Poison: 0, Polearms: 0, Shields: 0, Short: 0, Slings: 0, Splcast: -1, Stab: 0, Staves: 0, Stealth: 1, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Traps: 0, UC: 0 20:22:16 -!- MPR has quit [] 20:22:22 When the heck did that happen? 20:23:01 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 20:23:06 when the secret costs behind those non-zero apts were removed 20:23:31 and when xp was given a rough scale on the same lines as the rest of the apts 20:25:59 ??skill penalties 20:26:00 skill penalties[1/1]: Before 0.12, it cost more XP to raise the Spellcasting skill than a normal skill of the same aptitude, and less to raise Stealth, Evocations and Invocations. In 0.12, these hidden penalties were removed, and aptitudes were adjusted correspondingly. (This is a minor buff to Spellcasting and a minor nerf to the other skills.) 20:26:19 yay for consistency 20:26:21 -!- antrees has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:18 -!- ajikeshi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:37:43 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:43 -!- antrees has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:44 -!- antrees_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:44 -!- antrees_ has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:44 -!- jbenedetto has quit [*.net *.split] 20:38:06 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:28 -!- radiolit has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:48:54 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:13 Found a dazzling trident. / The +5,+8 glaive of the Guard {elec, +Rage AC+5 SInv}. 20:49:16 Is that a bug? 20:49:49 It was identified to me and I never picked it up 20:50:18 no, not a bug 20:50:29 it is a fixedart, and fixedarts come pre-identified nowadays 20:50:36 0.10-ish since all unrands had the same unknown appearance for flavour to remove such soft identifcation and spoilers they all auto-id in sight aside from octopus rings 20:50:53 oh! I found *two* art polearms at the same time. 20:50:55 Operator error 20:50:58 and misfortune and folly and faerie dragon armour 20:51:17 wait, the glaive of the guard is a trident? 20:51:20 ah 20:51:32 apparently not 20:51:40 -!- Ragedeath has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:51 not a bad item for a low level FE 20:51:57 trident of the guard 20:52:04 it is quite good 20:52:20 And some of the code looks cleaner already! 20:52:26 (About 5% of it >.>) 20:52:36 there is something about how if you itemspec or vault define randarts for weapons you can get unrands around the same delay and damage of the same weapon class 20:52:55 -!- jbenedetto has quit [*.net *.split] 20:52:58 not like it'll matter much when an impaler starts with wyrmbane or something 20:54:50 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:57:29 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:08 I am wondering now if there is a good reason that the code for killing one tentacle and the code for killing all tentacles are seperate from each other 20:58:38 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 21:00:02 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:01 -!- mineral has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:35 DracoOmega: what's the name of your Wretched Star branch and is it done? 21:05:27 Well, it's only local at the moment. And it isn't necessarily done, per se. Though if we were willing to accept it doing nothing to monsters that are not you (the light should probably do SOMETHING), it could be nearly so 21:05:33 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:06:35 go implement monster mutations 21:07:06 DracoOmega: just polymorph enemies into stronger things and allies into weaker things. Done. 21:08:10 The iron troll divides in two! 21:08:13 Eronarn: Pretty sure that's too much stuff under the hood for too little visible effect, even putting aside the work involved 21:08:36 DracoOmega: we need monster mutations for DS anyways 21:08:41 DracoOmega: *Brogue* does it 21:09:22 as part of a very large player-side system 21:10:07 A lot of Crawl mutations are only relevant due to long-term effects. There's only a handful that would be relevant for monsters in any more than a tiny minute way 21:10:31 DracoOmega: you aren't tracking the number of teeth each ogre has?! 21:10:33 Unless you're also going to start simulating them getting crushed under their own weight if you give them too many -str mutations 21:12:12 Monsters don't live long enough for slow healing to be relevant. Blurry vision is irrelevant when virtually no scroll reading happens anyway. Monsters don't eat. They don't have helmet or boot slots for body mutations to restrict. No one will notice a chance of a couple points of AC/EV. 21:12:22 And on and on 21:13:07 clearly it needs to all be exaggerated to extremes so that an orc can have rF+++ 21:13:17 also add more mutations 21:13:22 Well, in the case of the wretched stars, they just give BAD mutations 21:13:24 followed by it just being punched 21:13:37 wretched star sounds pretty unfun 21:13:46 Why? 21:13:56 crawl used to have them 21:13:59 they were called neqoxecs 21:14:11 These are temporary, you know 21:14:21 They go away on their own after a little while 21:14:44 does crawl not have neqoxecs any more 21:15:02 I don't see short-term bad mutations being annoying in the way that long-term ones can be 21:15:20 But they can still be a relevant problem in the shorter term if there's enough of them 21:15:43 Eronarn: does erocrawl not have neqoxecs 21:15:45 elliott: they used to be worse 21:15:49 oh, oh 21:15:51 smite 21:15:55 as in smite polymorph 21:15:59 yep 21:16:13 that was 'fun' 21:16:25 this still is not the same thing as clumps of temporary bad mutations in a single branch 21:16:42 DracoOmega: imo make them work like jiyva, so there is stat shuffling too 21:16:53 Ewww 21:17:07 that would be much more noticeable short-term than most mutations 21:17:34 And when was normal poly smite-targeted, anyway? 21:17:52 when giant orange brains had it 21:18:02 Well, I have no idea how long ago this was 21:18:15 it does not seem very relatable in context anyway 21:18:18 DracoOmega: if you make your branch public, I'll merge it into inception 21:21:17 I probably need to give it a tidying pass or two first, but sure 21:23:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:13 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:47 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:54 maybe i will have time to do lava orcs tomorrow :( 21:25:00 want to get those merged so badly 21:26:25 There's still all kinds of strangeness going on with these tentacles that I only partially understand 21:27:27 And I'm not sure if two more or less identical operations are coded slightly differently in different places for a bad reason or an obscurely necessary one 21:31:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:52 -!- TGWi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:48 DracoOmega: if nothing else at least we will get more kraken crashes out of your changes :) 21:39:59 I hope not! 21:40:33 :) 21:40:34 good night 21:40:36 -!- alefury has quit [] 21:43:37 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:40 -!- whig_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:18 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:22 -!- whig_ is now known as whig 21:47:19 DracoOmega: I'll make the Thrashing Horror/Montrosity. It'll run at you with quite bad aim, and do an immense amount of damage if it ever connects. 21:47:40 Quite bad aim? 21:47:46 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:47 Tentacled Montrosity + Boulder Beetle + ??? 21:48:18 Give it cleaving :P 21:48:30 Since it's thrashing all over the place 21:49:18 (Not necessarily serious) 21:49:28 That's not a bad idea. But how would I make it attack every turn? 21:50:10 How about a slime/hydra type concept: If you hit it, it breaks into pieces 21:50:38 If any of these is going to do splitting, I'm more inclined to make it the starcursed mass 21:50:51 that sounds like a good gimmick 21:51:37 royal jelly 21:52:21 bh: isn't that exactly what trj i- what HangedMan said 21:52:35 but do those pieces break into pieces 21:53:21 when you hit it orbs of destruction fly out 21:53:36 ontoclasm: we can call it the Hell Orb Spider 21:54:04 still going to advocate ballistomycete-esque colonies of that buggy constantly-replicating slime creature tv 21:54:29 yes please 21:54:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:42 does anything release clouds when you hit it? 21:56:36 not that I can immeadiately think of 21:56:54 "never melee" monsters already have a lot of representatives 21:57:37 HangedMan: not if the clouds appeared in a big radius 21:58:03 cloud-mirror 21:58:08 we should have a creature that's unsafe to firestorm 21:58:10 which isn't to suggest that I think this is a good idea 21:58:18 HangedMan: if you hit it, it drops a cloud on where you are? 21:58:39 although I guess that has overlap with ophans 21:58:46 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:50 ??ophan 21:58:51 ophan[1/2]: Casts bolt of fire and creates holy flame clouds around you (but not under you). 21:59:27 a few of the holies lost in the abyss would be nice, they're at a weird really high level of danger that's also annoying at the same time 21:59:29 in their other uses 22:00:22 -!- domi__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:22 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:47 btw, i wanted to mention: my thesis is due on the 16th 22:00:56 so i'll be pretty ghostly until then 22:00:56 hooray? 22:01:08 but after that i'll have time to do things 22:01:34 what are you writing on? 22:02:21 -!- domi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:25 it's a graph theory problem 22:02:33 go on 22:02:37 called "power domination" 22:03:08 "normal" domination is trying to find a subset of a graph such that every node is either in the set or adjacent to a node in it 22:03:27 i.e. every node is distance at most 1 from the dominating set 22:03:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:09 -!- st_ is now known as clouded_ 22:04:13 power domination lets nodes dominate nodes at long distances via kirchhoff's law 22:04:13 the tiles guy studies NP-Complete problems ;) 22:04:26 i'm more than just a pretty face 22:04:32 -!- domi is now known as domi_ 22:04:33 not -much- more but still 22:04:39 I only know about planar graphs 22:05:04 mm 22:05:19 my thesis director did some work on power domination of planar graphs 22:05:49 mine's on permutation graphs, though, and those are sadly only planar in trivial caes 22:05:51 cases* 22:06:26 Some nice comments buried here 22:06:36 .// Nothing to do here. 22:06:36 .// Except fix the tentacle end's pointer, idiot. 22:06:41 DracoOmega: hum hum? hehe 22:09:06 Best comment I've ever found was something along the lines of "If you change this, I will murder everyone you care about." 22:09:51 Haha 22:10:14 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that] 22:12:38 -!- Benhimself has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:19 -!- daftfad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:58 I may very well be misreading this, but I think there may currently by the possibility of kraken code one-shotting very unfortunate manticores or sixfirthy when the tentacles move 22:17:29 -!- TheUnlifeAquatic has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:39 If, say, the manticore has exactly the same number of shots left as the tentacle's mindex 22:21:44 Oh, wait, I think it's actually doing something wierd and different than I thought 22:21:58 Like using function pointer or something 22:22:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 22:23:11 -!- Rewans has quit [] 22:23:20 At least I THINK that might be what's going on? The syntax of the second argument here confuses me greatly 22:23:25 static void _purge_connectors(int tentacle_idx, bool (*valid_mons)(monster*)) 22:24:49 the second argument is a function pointer yes 22:25:00 monster* -> bool 22:25:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25:32 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 22:26:12 It's been a very long time since I used one of those in C++ 22:26:31 theortician ;) 22:26:45 Well, more like it's been a long time since I've used C++ period 22:26:45 (and the function pointer is bound to the name valid_mons so presumably it's used as a predicate to check whether a monster pointer is valid) 22:27:15 Yeah, I do understand what it's doing now 22:27:23 Though I am honestly tempted to make it do it differently 22:27:39 oh? 22:27:44 Rather than make a seperate function for every type of tentacle 22:28:42 so is your idea to unify their behavior or to introduce a switch in _purge_connectors or what 22:29:00 (i don't know how the tentacle code works!!! I've never seen it) 22:29:07 All the two functions that get passed to it do are properly pair kraken tentacles and segments together, and a different function for eldritch ones 22:29:20 god am I a spoiled player. I see a bunch of orange demons on D:10 and I start grepping the vaults 22:29:38 Well, more specifically, this is the sum total of what one of the functions that gets passed it does 22:29:41 return (mons->type == MONS_KRAKEN_TENTACLE_SEGMENT); 22:29:44 Tada! 22:30:47 oh 22:30:47 It would probably be less misleading to simply pass _purge_connectors a monster_type, rather than hiding that inside a function pointer that doesn't currently appear to have anything more complicated you'd ever want it to do 22:30:51 yeah 22:31:08 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:21 I've been having a hard time figuring out how tentacles propogate their damage to tentacle segments, but I'm beginning to get the impression that they just kill and recreate them from scratch each turn 22:34:33 Is Labs gauaranteed to be connected? 22:40:06 elliptic * 0.12-a0-671-ga88fed2: Player Lua: you.conservation(), you.res_corr(). (6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a88fed2d5e04 22:41:23 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:23 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 22:41:23 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, front page updated with news, try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 22:41:45 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:25 dolorous * 0.12-a0-672-g42cfbbb: Comment fixes. (2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/42cfbbb85a95 22:47:35 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:48:25 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 4.0b12pre/20110203165105]] 22:52:56 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57:19 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:04:08 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:08:17 -!- Pepe[netbook] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:15:35 I rebased inception, can someone pull it? 23:16:06 -!- greatorbofeyes has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:00 -!- elliptic is now known as the_glow27 23:18:27 -!- the_glow1 is now known as elliptic 23:18:43 -!- the_glow27 is now known as hyperbolic 23:21:08 -!- elliptic has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:21:24 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic 23:22:55 -!- Chakan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:23:16 -!- MrDamm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:31:58 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:34:18 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:23 -!- Sapphire has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:03 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:33 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 23:39:58 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 23:45:33 -!- domi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:49:08 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:21 elliptic: how would you de-wussify a bear with chaos claws? He can kill things up to around Louise 23:50:04 -!- Twinge has quit [] 23:50:20 I'm a poor person to ask because I don't like chaos brand melee on anything stronger than chaos spawn 23:50:29 since it can just instakill people with paralysis 23:50:46 and it sounds like you want something stronger than chaos spawn 23:50:58 How about making an alternate chaos-esque melee that doesn't do that bit? 23:51:11 yeah, something closer to klown melee maybe 23:51:29 or chaos melee could just lose paralysis, I don't know 23:51:31 It's supposed to be Xom-flavored, so even doing some odder stuff is probably fine, given that it's a unique 23:51:37 yiuf nerf 23:51:40 Killer Klown (05@) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 126-178 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(160) | XP: 6868 | Sp: blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:51:40 %??killer klown 23:52:11 Well, chaos melee paralyzing is one of the reasons I actually like it from a player perspective (say, on malign gateway) 23:52:24 But I agree that it would be kind of scary on something that can hit reasonably hard and that you can't just stay away from 23:52:43 fast melee panlords! 23:52:54 (chaos fists/fist-analogues) 23:53:02 Okay, I suppose they can get it too. I forgot about that 23:53:31 spriggan defender with a weapon blessed by xom because you worship xom and xom blesses monsters' weapons? 23:53:41 If you worship Xom, it's your own fault 23:53:59 At that point, randomly dying due to the whim of the RNG is just something you accept :P 23:54:23 monqy: fsvo blesses 23:54:34 brb 23:54:36 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed]