00:00:44 Pre-release branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-b1-88-g2d9507b (33) 00:02:58 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-88-g2d9507b 00:03:37 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 00:05:17 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08:04 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-279-g5cea4af (34) 00:10:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:55 -!- Guest42069 has quit [] 00:13:39 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:48 -!- Nerem has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:43 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:20 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:49 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:07 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-279-g5cea4af 00:22:28 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:35:34 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Quit: bonghitz_] 00:37:18 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:02 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:56 -!- xnavy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:22 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:40 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:33 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:56:15 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:27 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:44 -!- Friendlybee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:17:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:26:59 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:28:59 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 01:30:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:31:09 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:01 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: Counted eleven steps when his brain said ten.] 01:35:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:25 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:15 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 01:53:47 -!- elliott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:07 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:21 -!- Isabel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:01:26 <|amethyst> for those who proposed me as the "tiles dev": 02:01:26 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:01:36 <|amethyst> !lg . tiles s=ktyp 02:01:37 22 games for |amethyst (tiles): 19x quitting, 3x mon 02:01:55 That doesn't mean anything! You could do a lot of local play! 02:02:20 I think about half my offline tiles games are quits, and the other half are broken savefiles 02:02:22 <|amethyst> !tell elliott does indeed 02:02:22 |amethyst: OK, I'll let elliott know. 02:03:13 <|amethyst> !tell HangedMan could you take a look at #6147 ? the_teleporter teleports monsters out of the way intentionally; was that intended for wizlab_golubria? 02:03:14 |amethyst: OK, I'll let HangedMan know. 02:07:47 -!- xnavy is now known as Guest54999 02:07:48 -!- Guest54999 has quit [Killed (sendak.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 02:07:48 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 02:18:08 03|amethyst * r624eb6a42fe7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/title_pooryurik_knight.png: Optimise title_pooryurik_knight.png 02:19:02 <|amethyst> !tell dpeg I pushed PoorYurik's title screen to 0.11 (after optimising/recompressing) 02:19:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 02:19:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20:26 03dpeg 07stone_soup-0.11 * r62f9e7ca1afb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/title_pooryurik_knight.png: New [optimised] title screen (poor_yurik). 02:20:54 I think it is possible that when you commit something, you can't call yourself an ex-developer anymore. 02:22:17 a couple days ago greensnark commited something... 02:22:17 <|amethyst> dtsund: you could move him on https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:admin:devteam and see how long it takes him (or anyone) to notice :) 02:23:10 "Current projects: Updating the title screen." 02:23:54 <|amethyst> I assume it's up to the dev in question whether "indefinite hiatus" means they go into "former developers" on that page 02:25:30 <|amethyst> btw, for those who didn't see it earlier, http://s-z.org/crawl-stats/ 02:25:49 it's funny how dead august is 02:25:51 <|amethyst> What's up with Augusts? Start of school? French vacations? 02:25:58 tournaments, I think 02:26:05 <|amethyst> ahh 02:26:29 <|amethyst> that explains why this jan/feb were so dead, and why this august was not 02:27:00 -!- fungee has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:27:20 <|amethyst> also I am confused by 2011-07 522 0 0 02:27:57 hmm. that has to be wrong 02:28:02 <|amethyst> possibly something wrong with my metadata 02:28:18 <|amethyst> I know it uses the reflog for some things, and that was about when I first checked out my repo 02:28:30 It looks like something broke in early june 02:28:49 <|amethyst> that'd be right... I started in early june 2011 02:28:54 <|amethyst> started playing 02:29:01 <|amethyst> not 100% certain when I checked out this copy 02:29:34 <|amethyst> or it could be a bug in gitstats; wouldn't be the first 02:31:22 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:50 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:04 ??Static_discharge 02:38:05 static discharge[1/1]: Hits between 1 and 8 adjacent enemies, based on power; if an enemy is rElec or flying, skip them. For each target hit, if power remains, recursively arc out to another adjacent target (includes you, but for low damage), reducing power to 1/2 or 1/3. Halved damage to you if flying, and checks rElec. 02:38:18 Hrm, was hoping for damage statistics. 02:39:45 The damage for that one is a little complicated to sum up briefly, I think 02:40:05 Given that the number of arcs is itself random 02:40:08 Aye 02:44:52 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:46:32 <|amethyst> surely there's a mathematician about 02:47:05 Oh, I'm sure I could figure it out if I really wanted to. 02:50:04 03evilmike * rb843e10e1b75 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Fix an error if the lich is blocked from spawning in wizlab_zonguldrok. 02:50:05 03evilmike 07stone_soup-0.11 * r561a5b36473d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Fix an error if the lich is blocked from spawning in wizlab_zonguldrok. 02:50:40 ??mystic_blast 02:50:40 mystic blast[1/2]: In 0.11, does a maximum of 2d22 damage but explodes with a 3/(2 + 2*distance) chance; also has range 7 instead of 5. 02:50:46 ??mystic_blast[2] 02:50:46 mystic blast[2/2]: "The following name [Iskenderun's Mystic Blast] was found in the hack.exe file of an early version of PCHACK - credit goes to its creator (whoever that may be):" 02:51:50 <|amethyst> Not sure, but I think that might have been referring to just "Iskenderun" 02:52:24 Probably. 02:52:33 Iskenderun is a possible shopkeeper name in NetHack. 02:56:57 zomg plagarism 03:00:38 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:40 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:02:32 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:10:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:41 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:42 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 03:35:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:44:58 -!- Fear has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:31 -!- Sacred has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:36 -!- bracc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:18 -!- bracc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:01:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:11:42 -!- Syrio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:17:49 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 04:18:03 |amethyst: actually, optimizing title screens is worth it for any not completely negligible gains 04:19:18 source tiles for walls/floors/items/monsters are present only in git and source tarballs (binary packages contain them only combined into one big texture), title screens get passes as-is to every single download 04:21:10 <|amethyst> the question is whether 18 KiB is "completely negligible" 04:26:48 it's more than a half of the file in question 04:26:56 <|amethyst> true 04:36:10 -!- inde has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:54:28 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:00:03 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-281-gb843e10 05:26:55 -!- domi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:03 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:33:57 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:36:12 03evilmike * r2f889ab69f80 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des util/gather_mons): Remove "team" waves from arena sprint. 05:36:12 03evilmike * r51d274933dbf 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des: Adjust scroll shops in arena sprint. 05:36:13 03evilmike * r5c54080a4c52 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des: Balance changes to arena sprint. 05:36:13 03evilmike * rd0165e7e50c3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des: Print more information to the character log in arena sprint. 05:36:13 03evilmike * r406627d08889 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/twisted.des: Two entry vaults. (nagdon) 05:36:14 03evilmike * r4777e55ae806 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/lab.des: Many labyrinth vaults, including a minotaur vault. (nicolae) 05:36:14 03evilmike * r72eb8ffbabe5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/large.des: A farm-themed entry vault. (Lightli, HangedMan) 05:36:15 03evilmike * rd04589294b96 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des: Adjust arena sprint shops. 05:36:15 03evilmike * rc6a51a73b8fa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/small.des: Four entry vaults. (Lightli) 05:36:16 03evilmike * r4be0e2e3630b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Insane Zot:1-4 vault. (Lightli) 05:36:16 03evilmike * r1fc73f045992 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Minivault with a rod of summoning... (Lightli) 05:36:17 03evilmike * rd9474c1c21b0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: "Cornered adventurer" minivault. (Lasty) 05:36:17 03evilmike * ree09158fc8f8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Three minivaults. (Guppyfry) 05:36:23 (sorry about that) 05:38:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:58 is that zot:1-4 vault really necessary :P 05:40:36 it does give ample warning 05:41:03 yeah, but can't we do more interesting things in zot than fill up a substantial region with lava? 05:41:32 I suppose... did you see that the lava is smokeless? 05:42:07 also, maybe I should edit it so it is a corridor of lava instead of half a lake? 05:42:38 smokeless is good, yeah... a corridor might be better though 05:47:50 elliptic: are you suggesting gimmick vaults are unecessary?? 05:58:06 03evilmike * r7d14ff188579 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Get rid of Zot:5 subvaults. 06:02:05 03evilmike * r42a8e535008d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Change lightli_zot_lavaisle into a lavacorridor. 06:03:34 re: gimmicks, it's probably worth noting there's a ton of former subvaults sitting around. I'm going to work on making these zot minivaults (sans orb guardians), and they'll be fairly standard ones 06:04:01 so, zot is going to be getting a lot more minivaults, and they'll be normal ones 06:05:40 will they work as minivaults? thanks for cleaning up my mess, anyhow 06:06:02 you started it, other people added to it. I'm not innocent either :P 06:06:55 I think they will work as minivaults. Zot encourages diving, but these vaults conveniently have entrances on two sides... if made transparent, they would be well suited for a "diving" branch 06:07:10 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:07:28 for the weirder ones that placed the orb at a dead end, a stair could go there 06:10:07 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:16:24 -!- OddMeat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:16:58 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:33 -!- evilmike has quit [] 06:25:50 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:26:54 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:31:18 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:32:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:42 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:35:33 wow, nice commits while i was sleeping :) 06:43:05 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:48 |amethyst: since the wizlab_golubria code was originally just copy-pasted repeatedly from the_teleporter and an abyss-themed messy wizlab teleporting monsters on the teleport arrival spot is thematic I don't see any issues with wizlab_golubria's teleports 06:53:50 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:58:20 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:12:38 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:16:12 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 07:25:58 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:36:59 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:23 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:06 -!- voker57_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:58 -!- inde2 has quit [] 08:36:58 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:51:05 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:58 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:53:22 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:58:18 so I just got tgw_xom in zot, while wizmode testing (0.11-a0-3198-g6e5327) 08:58:42 i just encountered some wrong tiles in the crystal cavern vault/layout 08:58:45 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:58:55 Wrong tiles in crystal cavern (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6150) by Galefury 08:59:01 wall tiles were used for floor and water in a vault 09:01:43 you can get the two depth: * vaults (the other one is nemelex_altar_shiori) in almost anywhere, including abyss, dis:7, slime, pan 09:05:00 shouldn't they just be in D like all the others or something 09:06:18 i guess xom_obstacle_run is also an offender? 09:07:02 -!- PollyEsther has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:18 -!- PollyEsther has left ##crawl-dev 09:07:20 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:23 well, the overflow vaults are done with non-branched absdepth and Orc/Elf/V placement depending on what's suiting for the vault 09:08:56 would personally make it just D for the two xom vaults and D, Elf for the nemelex vault 09:11:16 by the way, some of the floor and water tile in that vault were correct 09:11:23 should i attach a save? 09:11:42 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:11:50 oh, edlothiol already asked for it 09:15:38 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:09 edlothiol: save attached 09:29:16 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:39:58 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:50 i didnt get a zot entry vault, is that intended? 09:42:13 yes 09:42:52 zot_entry_traditional purposefully makes there be a chance there's just the old bunch of gates 09:43:20 ah well 09:43:41 at least i got huge and nice veh altar vault and a trove i cant enter 09:45:06 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46:18 -!- MPR has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:46:29 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:45 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:08 -!- punpun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:00:05 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:00 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:08 -!- freefall has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:06:23 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:35 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 10:10:11 03MarvinPA * r58747ea2c907 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/lab.des: Remove a testing weight 10:10:12 03MarvinPA * rd8030988adb9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Restrict some overflow altars to more appropriate places 10:10:12 03MarvinPA * r4264f88b4cb8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ (bailey.des bazaar.des lab.des trove.des ziggurat.des): Fix trowel portals not being placed in existing vaults 10:10:13 03MarvinPA * r3c4be815e293 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/portals/bazaar.des decks.cc): Cap the number of Bazaars generated by Trowel cards 10:15:10 Bazaar in unconnected bubble (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6151) by absolutego 10:16:39 -!- Sacred has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:52 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:33 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 10:29:27 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:29:39 -!- hart has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:28 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 10:37:25 still a little annoyed place:Lair/Swamp/Shoals/Elf produces so much firewood, but for once I'll go for a bit of integration and simplicity instead of precise complexity 10:40:33 Two abyss minivaults, a zot minivault. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6152) by Claws 10:45:00 -!- Lawman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:53 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:55:07 -!- Fhqwhgads_ is now known as Fhqwhgads 10:59:31 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:46 -!- Fhqwhgads_ is now known as Fhqwhgads 11:00:01 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:04 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:50 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:08:31 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:14 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:27:59 -!- ZedZed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:31:17 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:03 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:25 <_dd> hey... 11:40:27 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:43 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:45 <_dd> there was some talk on mantis about how it's weird that sabres are short blades 11:41:30 <_dd> so: how about replacing scimitar with sabre (making it a long blade), and replacing sabre with cutlass? 11:41:55 <_dd> i realize there's an artifact cutlass but that could also be reflavored... 11:46:31 Okawaru gifting affected by Heroism (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6153) by oiseaux 11:49:06 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:49 -!- daftfad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:05 -!- blabber has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:02:17 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:29 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:07:06 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:23 MarvinPA: decks of Dungeons just became mostly useless 12:10:14 03kilobyte * rc3e74d7c0980 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bazaar.des: Slash relative weights of bazaar maps by 10. 12:10:16 03kilobyte * raec47cac1a97 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bazaar.des: Increase the weight of the generated bazaar map. 12:10:17 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:32 well i wouldn't say 5 free portal vaults is useless by any means 12:10:51 but if infinite bazaars is all they had going for them i wouldn't be against removing the whole deck, really 12:11:00 _dd: for me the appropriate distinction between long and short blades is usefulness for sneak attacks 12:11:17 not sure how cutlasses fare in that regard 12:11:56 also, falchions should probably stay falchions, renaming a weapon to a name from a different weapon class would really confuse people 12:13:12 I wouldn't mind removing dungeons altogether either... or if someone has ideas for actually useful cards to go in it then that could be cool, but that seems hard 12:13:34 yeah, i've tried to come up with ideas in the past and failed 12:13:40 make shaft? 12:13:58 overlaps with escape, but it is a dungeon modification 12:13:58 escape decks have that already 12:14:01 oh 12:14:01 bolt that creates walls 12:14:15 basically most dungeon alteration is too strong 12:14:32 if it does anything at all 12:15:11 what about that old idea of removing deck weighting? 12:15:17 remove decks 12:15:28 then you get problems with wonders all over 12:15:47 ChrisOelmueller: there could still be weighting, it would just be static 12:15:48 well, you make wonders rarer than the other types 12:15:49 why? wonders can just be rarer than all the others 12:15:50 yeah 12:16:03 alright :) 12:16:17 and yeah, would also be a good change i think 12:16:18 is wonders any better than dungeons? 12:16:34 is wonders actually interesting? 12:16:38 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:50 st_: slightly, since it is dangerous to use and has more than one useful card 12:16:51 hi dev -- what features are we deleting today? :) 12:16:58 more so than dungeons, for sure 12:17:00 bh: maybe decks of dungeons 12:17:04 dungeons is just so bad 12:17:07 ??dungeons 12:17:08 I don't have a page labeled dungeons in my learndb. 12:17:12 ??deck of dungeons 12:17:12 deck of dungeons[1/2]: Cards include: Map, Dowsing, Spade, Trowel, Minefield, Vitrification, Water. Sacrifice jewellery, books, and miscellaneous items (crystal balls etc, not other decks obviously!). Note that this does NOT include enhancer staves and rods, which go towards destruction decks. 12:17:13 ??deck of dungeons 12:17:13 deck of dungeons[1/2]: Cards include: Map, Dowsing, Spade, Trowel, Minefield, Vitrification, Water. Sacrifice jewellery, books, and miscellaneous items (crystal balls etc, not other decks obviously!). Note that this does NOT include enhancer staves and rods, which go towards destruction decks. 12:17:38 oh right, water card is abusable also 12:17:48 ??water (card) 12:17:49 water card[1/4]: Places a lot of water around you. At card power 0, radius is 4 and is always shallow. At card power 1 or 2, radius is 6 or LOS respectively, and makes deep water 50% of the time. Won't affect trapped squares unless card power is 2. 12:18:00 yeesh 12:18:04 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:12 that entry is out of date also 12:18:15 ??deck of wonders 12:18:15 deck of wonders[1/2]: Cards include: Potion, Focus, Shuffle, Experience, Wild Magic, Helix, Sage, Alchemist. To get Nemelex to gift wonders, sacrifice potions, scrolls, wands and permafood. 12:18:21 -!- daftfad has quit [Changing host] 12:18:39 spade is dead already, and map/dowsing were merged (i think maybe that one's sort of worth keeping if it'd fit in another deck somewhere?) 12:19:05 dowsing did what -- magic mapped gold? 12:19:07 I think wonders isn't horrible as a rare deck gift 12:19:34 bh: some random combination of detect monsters/items/traps 12:19:37 MarvinPA: yeah, dungeons cards can of course be recycled in other decks if we think they are fine 12:20:09 -!- MPR has quit [] 12:20:39 I've never wanted to play a Nemelex worshipper. The sacrifice Foo to receive Bar mechanic was too meh for me 12:22:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:28 just to throw numbers out there, the fixed deck weightings could be something like destruction 40%, summoning 30%, escape 20%, wonders 10% 12:23:36 or wonders could be even lower 12:24:55 definitely 12:29:15 HangedMan: that's a nasty zot vault you've got there 12:29:28 not by much for zot 12:29:36 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 12:30:45 the abyss vaults are really cool looking! 12:31:45 I think abyss vaults could do lots with selective shifting (though the greatest thing would be being able to randomize said shifting in the layout) 12:33:25 HangedMan: it's a long weekend! I could get hacking 12:34:20 could some wonderfully crazy randomization with empty space being more workable in map definition, if you can I'd love to see it 12:36:44 -!- syllogism has quit [] 12:36:48 HangedMan: did you take a look at the layout I checked in? 12:37:03 which one's that? 12:37:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:21 it takes an underlying dungeon making function and then warps it 12:40:58 ah, a start of that idea to make the abyss be more "melting dungeon"? 12:41:05 makes stuff like this -- https://gist.github.com/3602095 12:41:23 mmm 12:41:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:34 I don't think layout is the only problem with the abyss, but the homogeneity certainly contributes to it being boring. 12:41:52 speaking of boring -- would a D:1 entry vault with a Boring Beetle be too mean? 12:42:00 @?? boring beetle 12:42:00 boring beetle (07B) | Spd: 6 | HD: 8 | HP: 32-57 | AC/EV: 13/4 | Dam: 35 | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 110 | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 12:42:14 player naga are Spd: 8, right? 12:42:21 there already is one 12:42:28 MarvinPA: hooray :) 12:42:31 that still isn't fixed? 12:42:33 wow 12:42:36 the current boring beetle entry vault is just to spam the noise, not try and kill the player 12:42:37 unless you mean one that can get out, in which case it'd be bad because people can kite it and kill it 12:42:57 for a million free xp 12:43:06 ah okay i've obviously been thinking about something that was fixed, then 12:43:27 I dislike the idea of lethal entry vaults, even when being malnevolent you have to give players a chance 12:44:57 ??neutral 12:44:57 I don't have a page labeled neutral in my learndb. 12:46:04 bh: player nagas are approximately speed 7 12:46:10 03dolorous * rc32969eddd6e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bazaar.des: Typo fix. 12:46:29 an entry vault that spams a noise seems stupid also 12:46:39 what's the point? it's just annoying 12:46:52 funny you think it's just one 12:47:10 that was more in generic terms :) 12:47:15 neutrals attack players and monsters and neutral (friendly) attacks just monsters? Is there a `true neutral` that doesn't hit anyone and doesn't give XP? 12:47:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:56 a neutral that just lets everything kill it? 12:47:56 bh: what would be the point of that? 12:48:06 03kilobyte 07glasnost * rb496f0529242 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Make trying to spawn a secret door fatal. 12:48:07 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r6eb0595184c8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Despoil/runify a lot of vault doors. 12:48:08 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r226f152bdc15 10/crawl-ref/source/util/edit_vault: A script to open a given vault in an editor. 12:48:09 alefury: still thinking about a maurading boring beetle ripping apart D:1 12:48:15 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r317050d26f56 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Don't talk about warnings in the runed doors' desc. 12:48:30 bh: stuff like that shouldn't happen on D:1 anyway 12:49:04 we care about D:1 balance, or at least I do... it shouldn't have weird gimmicky things even if they don't *directly* kill the player 12:49:16 like that kraken vault, mmh 12:49:24 kilobyte: i thought runed doors were explicitly meant to be warnings of danger, not just pointing out important things? 12:49:26 ChrisOelmueller: o_0 !? 12:49:30 i'm sure you could make it summoned or something to not give xp but yeah 12:49:40 I mean, harmless gimmicks are fine, but boring beetles digging out the level is far from harmless 12:49:53 if nothing else it would make autoexplore a pain 12:50:06 bh: #4851 12:50:12 orb of fires do permanent damage so not many people will scum them, but a lot of jailed monsters can be converted into mucho exp / Okawaru piety if you have some strong means of disposing of them (Trog/Makhleb, etc). 12:50:34 elliott: there's no agreement what runed doors should do 12:50:36 kilobyte: what's preventing merging mon-pick branch? 12:51:08 Thanks, by the way, to whoever fixed the OSX build. Was that neunon? 12:52:05 HangedMan: it actually doing something; the coding is simple, but I still don't know what the minimal rarity should be. The best idea so far has 0 on the level just outside the range, then rising linearly to the peak. 12:52:15 <|amethyst> bh: grunt possibly 12:52:20 <|amethyst> %git :/Xcode 12:53:08 Grunt * 0.11-a0-3175-gdba5ced: On OS X 10.8, use the correct path for Xcode SDKs. (3 weeks ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/dba5ced81420 12:53:12 ohhhh 12:53:12 which means 16.6% if the range has radius 5, 50% if it has radius 1. 12:53:52 are secret doors gone 12:54:01 only in a branch 12:54:04 whoa... I didn't even realize I've been running a crawl server. 12:54:29 bh: i didnt realize it had become *that* easy to do so :) 12:54:49 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:53 alefury: it's actually way insecure. it's just a user crawl with crawl set as the shell 12:55:04 simmarine: not yet merged into trunk 12:55:27 <_dd> why doesn't the I page show spell noise 12:55:37 why is reverse_minivault_9 made of runed doors instead of regular doors? 12:55:39 |amethyst: how challenging was getting cszo alive? Is the install trivially reproducible? 12:55:53 <|amethyst> nontrivial :) 12:55:59 HangedMan: so autoexplore doesn't go through them 12:56:13 <|amethyst> I've been working on putting together docs and publishing my changes, but I've been busy with non-crawl stuff 12:56:15 HangedMan: as I said, there's no agreement what runed doors should do 12:56:30 it'll be easy to grep for runed_door and alter that later 12:56:44 autoexplore doesn't go through them in a vault that's an isolated bubble where you start off immeadiately surrounded by doors 12:57:04 if somebody autoexplores when they see that vault they deserve it 12:57:31 -!- MPR has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:58:30 s/deserve it/are unspoiled/ 12:59:02 we can't assume people are paranoid? 12:59:28 "some silly doors -- a bug of what?" "BOOM, 5 storm dragons, titans, shadow dragons and yak captains" 12:59:35 s/of/or/ 12:59:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: wouldn't the same thing happen if they manually explore? 13:01:07 |amethyst: yeah, but at least they have a sense of danger 13:01:17 <|amethyst> true 13:01:31 it depends on the UI, though 13:02:03 I like galehar's (?) idea to have no prompt, but merely autoexplore never going there 13:02:14 -!- buki has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:38 They should stop autoexplore at least, though, so players are aware of the door 13:03:32 would you, like, put a runed door onto bee vaults and the like? 13:04:05 ChrisOelmueller: nah, I'd use a hexagonal, waxy door. 13:04:15 bee vaults are meant to be ambushes aren't they 13:04:38 right, but e.g. in lair and with manual exploration you can avoid them pretty well 13:05:33 ChrisOelmueller: well lair doesn't care whether you make the door fancy since it has a tendency to blow the walls open 13:05:37 or was that "fixed" 13:05:39 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:07 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:07:23 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:08:17 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:48 * kilobyte wonders if putting in Wolfenstein's level 1 (AKA, mostly, Doom 2 map 31) verbatim would be acceptable 13:08:49 use in minmay_expanding_circles and lemuel_ice_spiral_2 ? 13:09:13 isn't it still copyrighted 13:09:35 not sure if that's copyrightable 13:10:03 http://www.cheatcc.com/pc/pics/level1.gif it looks like a fairly elaborate/original design, though I'm no expert 13:10:17 I'm not a lawyer: http://boingboing.net/2011/06/23/why-fair-use-doesnt.html 13:11:07 <|amethyst> bh: by that argument you should never create any kind of content, even original, because you might be sued 13:12:05 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:06 |amethyst: that's how it works with patents :( 13:12:08 |amethyst: I'm not making that argument. I'm just pleading ignorance 13:12:09 -!- namad7 has quit [] 13:13:02 kilobyte: I don't read patents because 1) I can't understand them, 2) I'm not interested in willful infringement 13:13:03 |amethyst: well, you're more likely to get sued if you admittedly base your work on something else 13:13:11 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:15 Would anyone experience sadness if I, say, ripped up the tracks on the current abyss and tried to make it no longer shit? 13:14:58 <|amethyst> kilobyte: actualy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Star_v._FormGen_Inc. 13:15:09 |amethyst: deadlink 13:15:16 add the . 13:15:25 <|amethyst> the . is part of it, year 13:15:28 <|amethyst> s/year/yeah/ 13:15:38 <|amethyst> this is not quite the same thing 13:15:49 <|amethyst> this was about maps being derivative works of the games they are in 13:16:13 <|amethyst> and centred around "audiovisual display", which would be vastly different for Crawl using a Wolfenstein map 13:16:54 We could always just ask permission. The folks at id don't strike me as a band of wankers. 13:17:35 probably not worth the hassle 13:17:49 we can rob Kornel Kisielewicz, though 13:17:51 -!- Yen has quit [] 13:18:36 <|amethyst> wonder if Id got permission from Namco for the pac-man ghosts 13:18:56 <|amethyst> apogee I guess, not id 13:19:07 quick, panic about the tetris block entry vault 13:19:43 MarvinPA: those are tetromino. That vault has *nothing* to do with Tetris. 13:20:30 the vault name implies otherwise! :P 13:20:41 |amethyst: it looks like Apogee was a band of wankers in that case. 13:21:02 <|amethyst> if they started falling to the south of the screen, and cleared when an entire row was full, then it would be a problem, given how litigious The Tetris Company is 13:21:46 <|amethyst> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-06/20/tetris-clone-ruling 13:22:11 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:23:13 * kilobyte feels bad about a Boulder Dash portal vault. 13:23:45 (could be themed as a sloped level, explaining why boulders roll to one side but you don't fall) 13:23:49 kilobyte: that sounds dangerously like sokoban. Confirm or deny? 13:25:38 you can't move boulders much, especially not diagonally. They move on their own, too. 13:26:51 bh: what is your new vision for the abyss 13:27:37 dungeon that's warped and melts? 13:27:56 Wensley: warping 'regular' dungeon layouts. multiple layers of the abyss with internal banishment 13:28:25 that sounds fun 13:29:01 in my forays to the abyss I've always found it to be either "OHSHITIMAGONNADIE" or "Oh, have you met my friend 'killing your face'?" 13:31:52 bh: warping regular dungeon layouts sounds workable 13:32:00 like how Lair does it if Lair was constantly messing things up? 13:32:33 I could also have it examine the floors that the player has seen and twist those layouts. 13:32:42 <|amethyst> multiple levels? 13:32:48 <|amethyst> can we have an abyssal stair? :) 13:34:08 |amethyst: sounds good to me, but I'm a sadist. 13:34:22 <|amethyst> %git a9662255 13:34:26 galehar * 0.12-a0-250-ga966225: Prevent friendly summons from attacking out of LOS. (4 days ago, 7 files, 45+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a966225517d6 13:34:26 <|amethyst> doh 13:35:35 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:51 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 13:35:53 -!- Ryak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:31 bh: how many hydrataurs 13:36:49 In terms of Abyss 'boredom', one thing I've often thought might be good is to have at least some degree of monster set scaling with player level. It should still be easier at higher levels than lower, but enough to make endgame Abyss not ENTIRELY trivial, and perhaps earlygame Abyss not QUITE so much a cointoss. 13:36:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:37:03 elliott: that's an idea for the abyss: Take two monsters and merge 'em 13:37:14 -!- Deathmic has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:37:40 would be happy with just lowered weights for 54xXzZ 13:38:11 bh: (abyssal stair is an existing thing, fwiw :P) 13:38:13 Even that mightn't accomplish as much in that regard. Late game, it's basically just busywork to find the exit again 13:38:23 elliott: as a tile? 13:38:29 ??abyssal stair 13:38:30 hydrataur[1/1]: One of four possible unique guardians at lvl 3 of the abyssal stair. Each of his nine necks ends in a javelin throwing humanoid torso, and he also buffs, heals and sprays hellfire. Carries the madness rune. 13:38:32 It might be nice to have the time spent in there be shorter, but more dangerous 13:38:47 ??abyssal stair 13:38:47 hydrataur[1/1]: One of four possible unique guardians at lvl 3 of the abyssal stair. Each of his nine necks ends in a javelin throwing humanoid torso, and he also buffs, heals and sprays hellfire. Carries the madness rune. 13:38:56 wtf...? 13:39:10 by existing I don't mean in DCSS :P 13:39:14 ??implemented bad ideas 13:39:14 implemented bad ideas[1/13]: When you hit an ogre with a long blade, instead of opening it like a pillowcase, you dice the ogre like an onion!!! 13:39:32 ??implemented bad ideas[2] 13:39:32 implemented bad ideas[2/13]: A cat race that gets nine lives! 13:39:36 ??implemented bad ideas[3] 13:39:36 implemented bad ideas[3/13]: A graphical tile interface, so players don't need to read to play Crawl! 13:39:56 -!- omnirizon has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:39:57 -!- omnirizon_ is now known as omnirizon 13:40:13 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r3929fecdbac0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 4 dirs): ontoclasm's tiles for runed doors. 13:41:34 I'm not sure why "scroll of silence" was in bad_ideas. 13:42:05 occasionally a decent idea slips through i guess 13:42:08 presumably for how it interrupts read-iding a bunch of scrolls 13:42:27 I would assume it was the "making noise to produce silence" thing 13:42:37 ##crawl tries its best but it has to happen occasionally! 13:43:29 <|amethyst> I want to say something very similar to Deal Four was in bad_ideas 13:43:36 What if the abyss gets harder over time and 'remembers' how hard it is. Then when you reenter it more quickly ramps back up to the last max difficulty level 13:44:02 <|amethyst> though I didn't see know that when implementing it (it's a pretty obvious idea) 13:44:29 <|amethyst> and if orb spiders and maintain_range weren't in bad_ideas they should have been :) 13:44:29 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:58 I don't think scaling difficulty over time spent makes as much sense 13:45:15 Since that still implies time spent in the more boring portion, until things get 'serious' 13:45:24 scaling over time makes more sense than scaling based on XL IMO 13:45:24 Or, at lower levels, that getting unlucky with exits is even WORSE 13:45:31 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:44 DracoOmega: it could start at a higher scale if you enter from a portal rather than getting banished or something 13:45:56 or if you get banished deeper 13:45:59 Well, high level characters still end up there through banishment more often than portals 13:46:26 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:30 I got banished on Elf:$ then killed everything and got the Abyssal rune, then snagged the Elf rune. 13:46:31 Basing it on dungeon depth might make some sense, I suppose... 13:46:59 <|amethyst> bad idea: make it so you can choose: move east for easier, west for harder but more exits and runes 13:47:03 Though I still don't like that as much 13:47:25 bh: and then the mossy and orcish runes]? 13:47:30 s/\]// 13:47:41 I like the general concept, but it has the problem of making the boring mode still the more optimal one (less risk, etc.) 13:48:00 elliott: by elf rune, I mean 'I killed all the elves and took their loot" 13:48:04 If Abyss trips at high level were relatively brief but contained genuine danger, I think that alone would fix a lot of Abyss issues 13:48:24 <|amethyst> the elven rune is made of spellbooks, decks, and gold 13:48:33 I don't think scaling abyss at all makes much sense 13:48:42 What about creating abyssal versions of the creatures that were arround you when you got abyssed? 13:48:43 we don't do that anywhere else 13:48:59 bh: would be cool probably 13:49:06 elliptic: sure we do. Dungeon gets harder as you go deeper 13:49:06 Well, the Abyss does a lot of twisted things that don't happen elsewhere. Also, it's the only place you're maliciously cast into 13:49:06 <|amethyst> elliptic: there's nowhere else you can go to from both D:5 and Z:5 13:49:34 |amethyst: you can die... 13:49:46 lair:8 and d:27 13:49:58 |amethyst: it's still the same place, and I don't think that it is ever good to penalize the player for being higher XL 13:50:07 <|amethyst> XL isn't good 13:50:09 <|amethyst> how about 13:50:11 then penalize them for being deeper 13:50:34 <|amethyst> the depth (and thus difficulty, reward?, etc) of the abyss you go to depends on caster spellpower 13:50:41 The Abyss DOES react to the player's presence in several ways, though. Runes already become more common the longer you're in there 13:50:42 I don't like deeper because absdepth is not openly revealed to the player and some stuff is deeper then it seems 13:50:45 |amethyst: and self-abyssing? 13:50:46 being deeper isn't good either, kite a banisher up to d:1 or something dumb 13:50:47 -!- omnirizon has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:51:03 self-abyssing depends on your own spell power!!! (or just give abyss portals a fixed depth) 13:51:11 <|amethyst> elliptic: would have to be worked out based on how you do it 13:51:13 having it become more dangerous over time spend in the abyss might be okay, I don't like these other ideas at all though 13:51:14 One could easily assume some part of its warping is based on you 13:51:39 DracoOmega: there's a sacred crawl rule that the dungeon is not based on XL. 13:52:10 Well, I guess the thing is that I think midgame Abyss can be fairly interesting, when you're strong enough to not just be at the mercy of the rng, but then gets boring later on when you can be forced to spend lots of time there without almost any legit threats 13:52:28 I don't know the BEST way to fix that, but it would be nice to fix that 13:53:16 DracoOmega: doing Snake:5 at XL 27 isn't as exciting as doing it at XL 15, too 13:53:24 It's the only part of the game you can be FORCED to spend time in, and even this length of time is out of your hands (you can get very unlucky with stairs, etc.) 13:53:27 i feel like if the abyssal rune is to exist, powerful characters should be able to get it really quickly 13:53:37 If you do Snake:5 at XL 27, you can do it quickly and then leave 13:53:38 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I'm pretty sure you're forced to spend time in early D :) 13:53:45 Haha, fair enough 13:53:48 DracoOmega: well, it's partly under your control whether you get abyssed 13:53:48 <|amethyst> and Zot 13:53:51 Maybe I should have said 'branch' 13:53:59 Only partially 13:54:06 wear MR, break line of fire, kill things quickly, etc 13:54:11 it's pretty easy to get 14 runes without ever visiting the abyss 13:54:13 Yes, you can mitigate it, I know 13:54:16 Oh no! You have blundered into a Zot trap! 13:54:27 I'd be fine with banishment being DANGEROUS. I think it's less good for banishment to be BORING 13:54:34 it is dangerous 13:54:47 Well, not very often by endgame 13:55:11 I don't know about you but I get abyssed far less often in endgame than in midgame 13:55:40 -!- daftfad has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:41 I think I've probably gotten abyssed overall more often in lategame than earlier. Wish I had a way to check 13:55:50 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:51 Then again, I actually find midgame banishment fun, so... 13:55:58 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:59 I've only been abyssed voluntarily or when I get really sloppy 13:57:01 also, even to an XL 27 character, the abyss can still be bad... mutations, item destruction, summoner liches 13:57:41 Yeah, I'm not claiming it's a huge problem. I guess I just thought it might be a little more fun if it was somewhat more dangerous and/or shorter in lategame/extended 13:58:21 In extended, the Abyss is almost certainly safer than wherever you just got banished from 13:59:34 <|amethyst> that was my idea behind the "head west" suggestion; if you find it boring and feel you are diesel, choose to go through tougher stuff to find a rune vault and exit more quickly 13:59:51 <|amethyst> it has problems of course 13:59:56 |amethyst: it's a cool idea IMO, though a bit weird 14:00:43 main issue I see is lettting the player know about this 14:00:48 I think I'd prefer north/south 14:00:54 (clearly the most important thing) 14:01:13 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, not sure how to do that other than a stupid text blurb 14:01:15 Maybe there could be actual 'portals' in the Abyss that you could step through (without actual map breaks) 14:01:24 Like, infinite mirror worlds or something 14:01:28 randomize direction but have a given direction be more... weird? filled with opposition? 14:01:54 having portals deeper into the abyss or something might be a way of doing it, yeah 14:01:59 portals you could enter to increase danger + chance of rune/exit? maybe, yeah 14:02:05 I do like that idea 14:02:13 deeper abyss sounds cool 14:02:17 +1 14:02:26 I'll start writing code... 14:02:30 dive the abyss to get out faster 14:02:33 probably you should set it up so that the deeper abyss doesn't give you a better chance of exit unless you have the rune already 14:02:35 <|amethyst> would you always start on Abyss:1 14:02:36 <|amethyst> ? 14:02:49 <|amethyst> elliptic: sometimes people just want out, though 14:02:49 |amethyst: Abyss:Banishment_Level? 14:03:07 maybe should just increase the chance of the rune, and then implement the light thing where having the rune lets you leave at-will (or however it works?) 14:03:09 |amethyst: well, the point is that you should force people to fight a rune vault 14:03:15 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:03:16 if they are going to do this 14:03:18 <|amethyst> ah, true 14:03:30 if they aren't up to doing that, they shouldn't be going deeper into the abyss anyway 14:03:40 <|amethyst> though you could just make the environs more dangerous 14:03:50 <|amethyst> but yeah 14:04:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 14:04:06 should lucy do or care much about deeper abyss? 14:04:07 |amethyst: initial depth shouldn't depend on anything IMO, though it could be randomized a little 14:04:21 <|amethyst> elliptic: not even method of banishment 14:04:22 <|amethyst> ? 14:04:25 |amethyst: yes 14:04:33 MarvinPA: leave at will would kind of suck. You can apport the rune, right? 14:04:49 MarvinPA: it doesn't work like that 14:04:59 MarvinPA: when you pick up the rune, an exit spawns (underneath you, IIRC, but that's not really important), that's it 14:05:15 people seem to think it gives you exit the abyss or something but it actually just gives you a single-time exit 14:05:15 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: rawrmage: it's danei, it neither needs nor admits explanation] 14:05:35 the point being that once you have the rune, you should be able to exit easily somehow 14:05:42 I see the appeal -- maybe the abyssal rune's power should infallably protect you from abyssing? 14:05:50 the last time rune-and-exit relations was brought up the running idea was just make abyss exits substantially more common when you have the rune 14:05:51 that way you wouldn't even have to bother exiting it once you get banished and no UI would be required 14:05:52 you could have Abyss:1-5 and you start on Abyss:1-2 and the rune is only found on 4 and 5, or something 14:06:06 having the rune just increasing chances of exits (a lot) would also be fine 14:06:13 (assuming that banishing people after they've already proved they can handle the abyss enough to get the rune is considered annoying) 14:06:57 it would be nice if the rune was always in a vault that contained an exit or something? there's like a 9/10 chance for the abyssal rune not to be in a vault now isn' tthere 14:07:16 there's always a chance of enough baddies spawning that you die 14:07:32 although the new abyss dramatically reduced the chances of being trapped 14:07:58 going through the abyss for a while, getting the rune, and then just dying to spam later after getting banished again seems a bit lame 14:08:09 how about the 'abyssal monsters' upon banishment? It makes distort unwielding to escape less attractive 14:08:14 before, you kept walking into a corner you had to backtrack from over and over, which used to be deadly when there are unfriendlies around 14:09:56 !tell due could you help me remove secret doors from due_tower_of_silence? I'm not sure which ones should be normals, which runed (it appears to me that all), which should be removed. 14:09:57 kilobyte: OK, I'll let due know. 14:10:44 <|amethyst> the rune could turn off banishment 14:12:11 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 14:12:59 |amethyst: yeah, that was my suggestion 14:13:09 "The power of the abyssal rune protects you!" 14:14:58 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:06 taking the rune from the abyss cuts it off from the world the dungeon is in 14:15:39