00:02:45 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-77-g2576796 00:03:47 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:38 -!- morduin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:55 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-258-g9ff5bb3 (34) 00:10:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:30 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 00:12:44 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 00:14:10 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:17:29 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:39 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:40 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:28:41 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:49 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:41 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:37:05 -!- eurtek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:39:10 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 00:39:29 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:01 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:33 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:48:06 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:49:15 -!- sbluen has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:52:50 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:42 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:58:43 -!- buki has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:55 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:23 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:01 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:30 -!- Staplefun has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:15:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:55 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:53 -!- elliott has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:36:21 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:43 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:54 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:48 -!- tensorpudding_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:27 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:28 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:37 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:21 -!- Sacred has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:53 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:30:41 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:30:44 -!- Sacred has quit [Changing host] 02:33:33 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:25 -!- Exister has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:57 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:38:30 -!- Sacred has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:56:30 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:58:01 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:00:10 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:46 -!- nelq has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:31 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 03:05:31 -!- remyroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 03:18:06 -!- blueDave has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:22:20 -!- beepboop has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:24:24 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:37 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:33:31 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:50:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:08 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:34 -!- white_noise has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:02:22 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 04:04:40 -!- kwel01 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:06:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:53 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:53 -!- squimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:53 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:54 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:05 -!- AlphaQ2 is now known as AlphaQ 04:13:53 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:30:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:32:00 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:32:24 -!- Jude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:37:09 I never had the intention of doing the monster counterpart to the summon's change 04:37:19 players are too good at breaking LOS 04:37:28 and the AI would be terrible at adapting 04:37:50 and monsters don't do LOS abuse tricks, so it's not really needed anyway 04:38:38 We probably still need to add some summoning cap 04:38:49 -!- Dattu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:10 I was about to go to bed, but I'll just say: I agree, what you added is a good start though. Also I am fine with there being an asymmetry here, for reasons others have already said 04:40:55 my only thought at the moment, is maybe it's ok for player summons to still attack if they're obscured by smoke or some other temporary effect like that 04:40:56 yeah, this change will need some testing, then we'll discuss what kind of cap we want 04:42:16 (the thing with smoke is, I'm kind of curious how summons play around lava... my guess is not well) 04:42:22 maybe. But it's simpler this way, and you can just adapt your strategy to avoid creating a lot of smoke which would impair your summons 04:42:42 does smoke from lava block LOS? 04:43:01 enough of it does, yeah. 04:43:06 hmm 04:43:38 a single pool only has a small effect, but a river or lake produces a ton of smoke 04:43:42 well, summons are anywhere against anything. If some tactical situation make them less effective, maybe it's just more interesting. 04:43:51 s/are/are good/ 04:44:20 Yeah, I think that smoke harming summoners is interesting. 04:44:49 fair enough. I'm not too worried, just thought it was worth pointing out 04:44:58 Well, some situations already do. For what it's worth, I'm not sure 'near lava' is an interesting one on its own, but who knows? 04:45:32 this will mainly affect summons across lava, or in rarer cases, summons *over* lava 04:45:35 I also think I won't mind asymmetry, but will need to play a little and see if the difference sticks out. Not sure when I'll be able to play though, but like I said before, I'm really looking forward to it. 04:46:23 Yes, it's probably not a big deal or anything 04:46:47 Hmmm... summoner fire elementals will be terrible near water, though 04:46:48 this also solves the little-used exploit with summons and dispersal 04:46:52 As much of an edge case that is 04:47:01 summoned* 04:49:20 good thing smoke demons don't leave smoke cloud trails... 04:49:32 Wait... 04:49:40 You need to see both the summoned creature AND its target, yes? 04:50:00 Stuff like smoke demons can repeatedly obscure the latter 04:50:22 yeah, their steam ball might be a problem 04:50:39 easy fix: friendly smoke demons don't cast it 04:50:51 I don't really like that 04:51:26 it's a crappy spell, and there are plenty of problematic spells that allies don't cast 04:52:12 Well, that is true, but this one strikes me as somewhat different. Maybe not, but... 04:53:28 I honestly may like your original bit about steam and such not blocking LoS for summon control. I'm not sure how easily this could be exploited, but I am also very tired. 04:54:42 its not terribly exploitable. you can do it with conj spells too (they're capped at LOS radius, but not LOS itself), and its a neat tactic that doesnt really feel like an abuse 04:54:59 That's more or less my own immediate feel on it 04:55:08 -!- RollieTG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:44 It's not like you can have an infinite supply of portal fog on hand in most situations 04:56:50 portable* 04:57:14 pale dracs do, but thats what they're for :P 04:57:15 Yeah 05:00:45 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:04 -!- naalis has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:03:45 -!- evilmike has quit [] 05:15:42 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 05:22:44 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:29:40 -!- wjchen has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:35 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:41:12 -!- naalis has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:38 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:06 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:01:54 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:10:46 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:13:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:24 -!- Kitarity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:16:27 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:04 dpeg: commented on powers 06:24:22 -!- dsgjhsd has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:17 alefury: thank you! 06:29:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:31:01 I am interested in comments on my proposal in https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5509 06:31:09 1) No more sacrificing corpses under Trog. 06:31:10 2) Corpses from kills while berserk can be 'c'hopped when still enraged. This works with any weapon (or hands), gives piety, creates a lot of blood, has chunks spraying around (like disintegration) and increases rage duration like a kill would. Perhaps it should also be shorter than actual chopping. 06:31:15 3) Fresh corpses (created during the current rage) are highlighted: e.g. always on top of piles and in a different colour. 06:31:27 [See end of page 1 for my post, where I also motivate this a bit.] Back later. 06:31:34 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:26 Yermak (L27 SpWr) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1403 failed. (Coc:7) 06:40:04 -!- ZRN has quit [] 06:40:33 i think there should definitely be some tactical effect 06:40:49 berserk extension sounds fine, but not like something that would come up often 06:41:31 maybe 2-3 times per game at most 06:41:41 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 06:42:55 -!- CannibalFerox has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:54:49 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:02 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:38 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:14 dpeg: AWE SOME! 07:08:29 Now that is trog-flavour :D 07:09:34 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:07 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:14 yeah, the flavor is very nice :) 07:14:59 piety for berserk might already be a strong enough tactical effect on its own 07:15:42 because it means you get something for berserking, even if you dont need it to win the fight 07:15:53 im not sure i like that 07:16:50 actually im sure i dont like that. the piety it gives shouldnt be enough to make you berserk when you shouldnt 07:17:02 it would get so annoying 07:17:26 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:01 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:15 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:48 you should be able to rip up corpses to keep berserk going - it means you can slaughter your enemies, and keep on raging whilst waiting for others to get close to you 07:32:27 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:49 Yeah, it doesn't need to give piety, longer zerk shoudl be enough. 07:36:09 i dont think longer zerk is relevant that often 07:36:27 special rooms pretty much 07:36:46 in most situations where you have to fight a lot of enemies at once you don't want to berserk 07:37:13 This might give an incetive(?) 07:37:21 i also mentioned my concerns on the tavern btw :) 07:37:54 i think having access to scroll of teleport for example will still be more important 07:38:12 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:38:21 -!- SSW is now known as Guest62734 07:38:43 very good players with extensive knowledge about branch ends and other vaults might be able to use it to their advantage, but i think for most players it would rarely be relevant 07:40:43 It was my take on "corspe sacrifices are unfun". I think this one is fun. 07:40:43 I also think it's unlikely that the proposal would make players go berserk when they don't need it -- too many drawbacks. 07:40:43 as long as the piety gain is minor, yes 07:40:43 note that how much piety something gives is not transparent at all 07:41:00 The point is that "Trog likes that" should correspond to some piety gain, if little. 07:42:05 yes 07:42:16 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:28 one scenario where this might make people uselessly berserk is a green rat band in lair for example 07:42:44 harmless, and lots of bodies to mutilate for piety 07:42:57 even with fairly small piety gain 07:43:02 heck, even if you could get an opportunity to berserk quicker for sacrificing a corpse post zerk would be cool 07:43:06 That is a problem with green rats, though. 07:43:07 as long as it doesnt happen often its okay i guess 07:43:21 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:39 actually, I think that's something I'd really like - sacrificng corpses gets rid of post-zerk cooldown quicker 07:44:07 Could make it more watertight with a rule 4) Rage extension when chopping up fresh corpse only if enemies in sight. 07:44:08 the reduced need to rest means you don't lose piety which is better than gaining more piety 07:44:24 means you dont' get forced to continue a berserk to death 07:44:39 and means you get reqarded for slaying your enemies without having to be a lame duck 07:44:47 interesting 07:45:09 so, rather than looking for ways to boost piety, as snow says the biggest impact on piety is rest ... this helps reduce rest 07:45:25 without being a massive boost either way (for occasions where there are no corpses) 07:45:34 (by which time you should have other methods of dealign with cool down) 07:47:35 it does make it slightly newbie friendlier, but that's not a bad thing, right? 07:47:35 how about this: rage extension with enemies in sight, shorter post-rage cooldown with no enemies in sight? 07:47:35 well, if you're raging and you sac then you get berserk extension 07:47:35 if you're not raging and you sac then you get zerk-cooldown reduced 07:47:35 ah, that also works i guess 07:47:35 and if you try and sac when neitherzerking or cool-down trog is all "lol, no" 07:47:35 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:35 then you can still keep the minor piety gain, as well 07:47:35 or reduce it 07:47:35 I dunno 07:47:35 or maybe piety gain if nether zerking or cool-down 07:47:54 depends whether you thikn Trog is about the killing, or about the zerking 07:47:55 "I killd this without your help!" is that a good thing or a snub? 07:48:30 the premise was "piety gain from sacrifices is dumb" 07:48:33 yeah 07:48:43 but it's been shown that early on piety gain is nice 07:49:05 its nice, of course, but giving piety for sacrifices is still dumb 07:49:05 so I was allowing an option if it's decided that piety gain is worthwhile 07:49:29 trog is super powerful early on already 07:49:31 then, yes, maybe make Trog more berserk focussed 07:50:31 then, yes, for Trog, saccing should don one of three thigns 1) whilst berserking etend it, 2) if on cool-down reduce the cool down somehow, 3) if neither berserking or recently berserked Trog isn't focussing on you so won't work 07:50:41 Berserkign is all "Hey, Trog, look at me!" 07:51:03 phyphor: --> forum with that 07:51:24 I'm at work 07:51:28 IRC I can hide :) 07:51:44 feel free to post it as "from IRC" .. or I'll try to add it later 07:51:48 i can put it on tavern 07:54:37 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:55:32 should sacrificing while berserk with no enemies in sight end berserk without exhaustion? 07:55:40 should any of these sacrifices still give piety? 07:55:53 alefury: that's a nice idea 07:56:02 and I think the decision was "no piety on sacrifices" 07:56:19 you swap "gaining piety" for "losing less piety because you don't need to rest so much" 07:56:41 (well, berserk entension not so much, but then you are actively choosing to extend it rahter than wait to finish the fight) 07:57:02 and I'm not sure "no exhasution" - reduced exhaustion 07:57:14 no exhaustion is better 07:57:34 well, I'm thinking if you're not berserk, but on cooldown, and sacrifice it's not no exhasustion 07:57:38 and they should be similar 07:57:47 theres no point in exhaustion with no enemies around 07:58:07 if each corpse is an amount of exhustion reduced 07:58:07 well, then, get rid of exhasution on sac? 07:58:11 that seems very, very good, though 07:58:13 yes, imo 07:58:22 how do you measure enemies being around 07:58:29 Wasn't exhasution rbought in to stop berserk being so good 07:58:33 but then I guess hunger cost kicks in 07:58:37 if you're saccing you're not eating 07:58:46 if you can autoexplore, there are no enemies around 07:58:49 but of course you could sac one and eat the second 07:58:59 i dont think abusing this with a wand of invis would work very well 07:59:03 also because disturbances 08:00:29 it would let you reberserk quickly after stepping around a corner to break los i guess, but only if there is a fresh corpse there 08:01:09 it might be best to drop the post-zerk sacrifice and only have it work while berserk 08:01:29 extension with enemies around, end with no exhaustion without enemies around 08:01:50 that'd be annoying if you step off a corpse, kill something, step back to corpse and zerk expires as you're about to sac 08:02:05 berserk ends quickly if youre just moving around, so this would be very hard to abuse 08:02:59 dpeg: any ideas? 08:05:22 1) No piety for sacrifices. 08:05:23 2) Corpses from kills while berserk can be 'c'hopped when still enraged ('p'raying also works and does the same). This works with any weapon (or hands), creates a lot of blood, has chunks spraying around (like disintegration) and increases rage duration if enemies are in sight. It should also be shorter than actual chopping. 08:05:25 3) Sacrificing a fresh corpse while berserk with no enemies in sight ends berserk without exhaustion and slow. 08:05:26 4) Fresh corpses (created during the current rage) are highlighted: e.g. always on top of piles and in a different colour. 08:05:31 thats what i have currently written up 08:05:57 do you care about corpses that aren't on the aquare you're on 08:06:00 oh, also 5) No sacrifices when not berserk 08:06:05 as you can't exactly go off to them as zerk ends so quickly 08:06:10 no, after all you have to mutilate them 08:06:36 maybe moving towards freshly created corpses could be like moving towards enemies? 08:06:50 if you can do that, that's cool 08:07:04 sorry, back 08:07:05 I didnt' think berserk cared if you moved towards or away, it was the "moving and not fighting" that counted? 08:07:35 There is a huge point in exhaustion. 08:08:19 Getting rid of change for paralysis would be a huge boost already. 08:08:55 well, it only works with no enemies in sight, which means you could most likely wait it out anyway 08:09:11 alefury: no no 08:09:37 Stopping all bad effects of berserk with just one prayer is way too strong. 08:09:38 also, you would lose the piety from sacrifices, which would definitely be a major nerf, no matter what snow says 08:10:15 hm, okay 08:10:18 No paralysis is really good, trust me. :) 08:10:35 Where is evilmike when you need him? 08:10:51 so drop the bit about enemies being in sight, and have sacrifices when exhausted reduce slow and exhaustion duration? 08:12:05 i still think the effect would be pretty minor 08:12:14 what do i care about paralysis if there is nothing around to take advantage of it? 08:12:32 I'd do it like this: chop with enemies in sight extends rage; chop without enemies in sight (but still berserk) guarantees no paralysis. Piety in either case. 08:12:53 no change to exhaustion and slow? its really annoying to have to wait it out. 08:12:55 The lich around the corner? 08:13:13 Exh and Slow are crucial in putting rage into its place. 08:13:29 they are crucial with monsters around 08:13:37 corner trickery would be a problem i guess :/ 08:14:17 could be fixed with also considering recently seen but not killed enemies as "around", though 08:15:08 nah, that gets too complicated 08:15:10 so if you step around a corner and sacrifice, you would be more berserk and kill that lich :) 08:15:46 doesnt trog prevent paralysis anyway? 08:16:14 only like 70% prevention or something at normal piety levels i guess 08:16:46 still can happen, I discussed it yesterday with evilmike 08:18:12 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:18:39 hm, maybe you should write something on the tavern, your opinion on this seems too different from mine for me to write the proposal 08:18:54 hm 08:20:01 i usually just wait out everything after each berserk, possibly while retreating into explored territory, and would appreciate some way to get around that, because its annoying 08:20:27 also i tend to be very careful about berserking in dangerous areas, maybe too careful 08:24:12 Yes, this is good because berserk should be double-edged. If you remove Exh+Slow as soon as there's a corpse, it becomes broken. 08:24:38 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:06 alefury: yes, it seems wrong that the best use of berserk isn't "wade in and kill things" it's "draw one big thing away, berserk and kill it, rest" 08:25:19 dpeg: my thought was reducing cooldown 08:25:23 a little for each corpse sacced 08:25:35 so you switch piety gain from saccing to reduced piety loss for having to rest 08:26:35 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:27:19 -!- pantaril has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:27:23 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:42 I need to think about this. Perhaps Trog berserk should have a piety cost, after all. 08:29:09 As well as big hunger cost? 08:29:44 don't know 08:30:04 would be a multi-aspect nerf of Trog :) 08:35:11 i dont think trog is hugely overpowered, just very strong 08:35:31 he can take a nerf, but doesnt really need one. just shouldnt be buffed :) 08:36:36 yes 08:37:18 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:40:08 Well, converting sacs from "piety gain" to "reduced piety loss from having to rest" makes the game more fun (less resting) and makes sense thematically 08:40:29 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 08:40:36 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:04 would reducing cooldown have any effect at all 08:45:08 if you're in a bad spot you run away 08:45:23 you don't move from pile to pile saccing corpses 08:45:30 and if you're not who cares 08:45:35 [DCSS] Does someone know why Fulsome Destillation and Evaporate are no longer in the Book of Changes and where can I complain? 08:45:45 <3 08:45:57 answer: they dont exist. 08:46:22 <|amethyst> alefury: note that they were removed from that book in 0.10 :) 08:46:25 absolutego: preventing paralysis would have an effect 08:46:35 oh, haha 08:46:40 sweet 08:46:51 by paralysis you mean passing out from rage? 08:47:11 yes 08:47:46 dpeg: where did you find that? 08:47:51 reddit 08:47:57 The answers are very reasonable. 08:48:01 i'd like to comment on that but i never notice it. if you play trog right, you don't really berserk much after the early game 08:48:10 which seems crazy 08:48:28 no, it's perfectly fine 08:48:31 the downsides (being a lame duck when it ends) are so costly 08:48:36 because berserk is, you know, dangerous 08:48:40 a berserker that doesn't berserk ... 08:49:08 {spbe} 08:49:11 there should be a difference between zerkitis and "controlled zerk" 08:50:10 there is a difference, controlled berserk is very good and zerkitis is very bad 08:50:10 It just seems odd that a class defined by an ability doesn't use that ability 08:50:10 * dpeg points out that old Trog had Might at ***. 08:50:10 i see how you'd want lugonu to do corruption and stuff, but i really don't get why you should berserk all the time with trog 08:50:19 also, trog's thing is killing casters 08:50:25 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:34 and he's very well defined at that (antimagic, trog's hand) 08:50:44 (and... not casting) 08:50:45 book burning! 08:50:49 yes! 08:50:54 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:51:02 * dpeg throws some books into the fire, for good measure. 08:51:15 also i like book-grenades (i think you disagree) 08:51:29 yes, but it's okay :) 08:51:52 I am not a good player, so I do use berserk. Would be interesting to hear from good players. 08:51:54 absolutego: I'm not just talking about Trogites, but Berserkers who don't berserk ... seems like an odd thing 08:52:00 it's be like wizards who don't ... whizz 08:52:16 absolutego: I love book-grenades, or even book-traps in corridoors 08:52:28 Also, I am a terribad player 08:52:29 phyphor: the question, imo, is: should a berserker berserk very often, or just for special fights? Status quo (a good one, I think) is the latter. 08:52:33 I think I'm the worst player with a win 08:52:48 berserking in most fights kills you, so you should change berserk 08:52:53 and berserk is fine, i think 08:52:58 I agree 08:53:13 dpeg: I think a berserker should be able to choose to berserk more frequently, even if they choose not to 08:53:49 and that changing from "gain piety from saccing, that's then used by waiting for cooldown to go" to "reduce cooldown from saccing" is interesting 08:53:58 as is "increase berserk timer if saccing whilst berserk" 08:54:54 i think that'd matter only for the turncount, which... i don't really care much about 08:55:49 I don't care about turn count, I care about the playing 08:55:49 and it's a somewhat obscure-ish mechanic 08:55:49 well, what i'm saying is that it wouldn't affect play much :p 08:56:04 it'd just take less to rest to des-exhaust yourself 08:57:11 What about this: rage-chopping a fresh corpse without enemies in sight stops berserk at once, guarantees no passing out, and possibly (not sure here) reduces Exhaustion randomly ("You calm down" -- as opposed to "Your rage grows!" when killing in rage, or chopping in rage.) 08:57:53 did i say obscure :p 08:58:33 i guess the question is: why is it better? i don't see much in the way of flavour 08:58:34 dpeg: on my proposal? The point is that end rage. 08:58:45 *you 09:00:30 oh my god.... ^ was to absolutego, of course 09:02:58 to end rage you generally just wait a couple of turns, or move past a corner. if you win something by chopping up a corpse (esp. something like guaranteeing you won't pass out) it becomes optimal to do so, right? 09:02:58 optimal as is saccing corpses now, yes 09:02:58 but that's a matter of strategy (piety gain), not tactics, and so it is much less relevant 09:03:30 hm, probably best to restrict to chopping with enemies in sight then 09:03:56 -!- Orionstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:07 that is a joke right :D 09:04:13 no 09:04:43 We could also drop the whole thing altogether (and remove corpse sacrifices, or not) but I think there's at least flavour to be gained. 09:04:43 maybe i don't understand the proposal fully, but with enemies in sight and rage active i'd rather try to kill them 09:05:23 i like corpse saccing as is (i'd prefer if all of it was fedhas-like, but it seems many don't agree) 09:06:18 absolutego: you'd gain rage extensions from it, too. Won't come up very often, but may be best at times. 09:09:54 Basic premises: 1) Corpse sacrifices is tedious (more than killing). 2) Not strictly necessary (but positive) for gods with piety for killing. 09:09:54 I am looking for a proposal that severely restricts corpse sacrifices under Trog (only when berserk). 09:11:27 if that's the problem i'd just remove corpse sacrifice. giving the player advantages for saccing (or chopping up) corses while berserk (1) is the kind of thing only spoiled players would most likely know about, and (2) it'd make berserk a bit better, which isn't necessary 09:11:41 all this with a bit of salt etc 09:11:56 not like i'm a very good or knowledgeable player 09:12:53 (1) is rubbish: we explain the piety mechanics for all gods in ^ 09:13:31 I hear "only spoiled players" so often these days, it is getting on my nerves. 09:13:46 when i say it i mean it 09:14:31 <|amethyst> only spoiled players know that you gain piety by standing over a corpse and pressing p 09:14:45 this is a bit more complicated than that 09:15:20 -!- Lulero has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:15:20 This can be explained in a single sentence. 09:15:58 yes 09:16:16 <|amethyst> dpeg: two words even 09:16:23 semi-clause 09:16:29 <|amethyst> but I do see the point that people often don't read ^! 09:16:41 -!- Vandal has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:41 <|amethyst> ??nemelex secret tech 09:16:42 nemelex secret tech[1/1]: < rwbarton> Soyweiser: press ^! and then look at the screen very carefully 09:16:48 <3 09:16:57 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:01 |amethyst: that is their loss -- it's bullshit to say "spoiled" for things like these 09:17:07 if players don't read ^ they should 09:18:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: What if we add "and can be toggled on this screen" and highlight the shortcut letters? 09:18:32 <|amethyst> err, not exactly that clause 09:19:41 that would definitely be good :) 09:20:57 |amethyst: sorry? The bottom line of ^ you mean? 09:20:57 Highlight shortcut letters is always good. 09:21:06 <|amethyst> dpeg: I was thinking of adding something to the paragraph, since there's nowhere else to fit it on 80x24 :) 09:24:10 Inscribe fresh 09:24:11 corpses with !p, !* or =p to avoid sacrificing them accidentally. 09:24:19 ^ This line isn't really needed. 09:24:38 And what is wrong with this: Press '!' to toggle between the overview and the more detailed description. 09:24:59 <|amethyst> dpeg: I was talking about the Nemelex screen in particular 09:25:08 "Really, this is what I always appreciate about DCSS development. You can check out the developer wiki. They are ready serious about what to be added and removed from the game, with very clear goals in mind." 09:25:09 hahaha 09:25:13 ah. just looking at Trog's 09:25:15 reddit is pretty funny 09:27:03 On Trog's ^! all keys are highlighted (a for book burning, p for sacrifice). 09:27:03 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess we'd want the !p mention for Nemelex and Ely only? 09:27:03 |amethyst: yes, I think so. Could you do that? 09:27:03 <|amethyst> yeah, on it now 09:27:23 <3 09:27:28 <|amethyst> I wonder if anyone has ever inscribed a fresh corpse with !p to avoid sacrifice... I guess maybe a necromancer of makhleb or something 09:27:32 <|amethyst> maybe 09:27:40 I wouldn't bet on it :) 09:29:00 <|amethyst> what about with beogh then :) 09:29:20 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:29:33 <|amethyst> "I'm going to save this corpse for (slightly later) so I can . . . mourn, I guess." 09:31:03 A fellow orc, after all. 09:34:40 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh, hm... doesn't work there 09:34:48 <|amethyst> > + decks of Escape -- armour 09:34:49 <|amethyst> ? + decks of Destruction -- weapons and ammunition 09:35:12 <|amethyst> oh duh 09:35:16 <|amethyst> it's a %c not a %s :) 09:38:51 |amethyst: try ? 09:38:51 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:01 <|amethyst> dpeg: I just put it in the wrong place is all 09:39:04 ah 09:39:06 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:44:59 <|amethyst> So for Nemelex here's what I'm thinking of adding. 1. On the ^ screen in the paragraph at the bottom ("You can pray..."), append "See the detailed description to sacrifice only some kinds of items."; 2. on the ^! page, make the letters a b c d e for item classes white; 3. on ^!, end the last ¶ with "Press a letter now to toggle a class:" 09:45:00 <|amethyst> and then, in a separate commit, remove the !p =p stuff from Beogh and blood gods 09:45:42 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 09:46:34 |amethyst: cool! 09:47:20 |amethyst: Do Nemelex's screen still read nicely? (empty lines between paragraphs) 09:48:25 <|amethyst> dpeg: yep, it fit on the same line in 80x24 and even 79x24 09:48:41 <|amethyst> and for the ^ screen, there was plenty of extra space 09:49:12 <|amethyst> also going to make "can pray" into "can pray" 09:49:48 Nice, many thanks. Gotta go now. Later! 09:50:13 <|amethyst> later 09:52:30 -!- Isasaur has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:52 -!- Orionstein1 is now known as Orionstein 09:54:57 <|amethyst> oh, hm, the latter doesn't work 10:00:06 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:03:29 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:03 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:23 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * r160ff7a67b95 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Spoil Nemelex's secret tech. 10:13:23 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * r0e47bbb380e3 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't mention !p !* =p for blood gods or Beogh. 10:13:24 03|amethyst * r488fe720f500 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Spoil Nemelex's secret tech. 10:13:26 03|amethyst * r9bf5a120dbde 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't mention !p !* =p for blood gods or Beogh. 10:14:56 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:05 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:17 <|amethyst> !learn add nemelex secret tech No longer quite so secret. 10:19:17 nemelex[8/8]: secret tech No longer quite so secret. 10:19:18 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:22 <|amethyst> doh 10:19:31 <|amethyst> !learn del nemelex[8] 10:19:32 Deleted nemelex[8/8]: secret tech No longer quite so secret. 10:19:38 <|amethyst> !learn add nemelex_secret_tech No longer quite so secret. 10:19:38 nemelex secret tech[2/2]: No longer quite so secret. 10:20:43 <|amethyst> !learn move nemelex_secret_tech[1] nemelex[8] 10:20:43 nemelex_secret_tech[1] -> nemelex[8/8]: < rwbarton> Soyweiser: press ^! and then look at the screen very carefully 10:20:55 <|amethyst> !learn add nemelex_secret_tech[1] see {nemelex[8]} 10:20:56 nemelex secret tech[1/2]: see {nemelex[8]} 10:21:03 <|amethyst> for the irony 10:22:02 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:37 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:54 ??nemelex secret tech 10:26:54 nemelex[8/8]: < rwbarton> Soyweiser: press ^! and then look at the screen very carefully 10:27:09 hmm 10:28:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:18 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:36:44 -!- AlphaQ has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:44 -!- Psyknux has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:44 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:45 -!- ChongLi has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:46 -!- ekix has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:46 -!- virigoth has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:47 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:47 -!- joosa has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:48 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 10:36:48 -!- Surr has quit [*.net *.split] 10:40:31 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:31 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:31 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:44 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 11:04:46 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:07:01 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:08:06 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:45 -!- Camicio1000 has quit [] 11:16:41 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:45 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:24:06 -!- CaptainPickles has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:28:37 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:42:15 -!- Orionstein has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:54 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:35 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:35 -!- wjchen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:27 Monster inventories not dropping when killed by divine miscast (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6136) by 78291 12:11:17 -!- Jude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:11:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:39 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:16 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:10 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:39 -!- dg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:04 good morning crawl-devers 12:37:54 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:16 -!- domi_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:32 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:58:18 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:01:33 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:55 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:00 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:28 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:11:07 03|amethyst * rb2bd5e426669 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Do death message and item drops for miscast kills (#6136). 13:11:07 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * rac2e63e1a15f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Do death message and item drops for miscast kills (#6136). 13:11:17 -!- CIA-133 has quit [] 13:12:47 <|amethyst> did I just kill the CIA bot? 13:13:03 -!- CIA-45 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:20 Yes, and you installed an imposter in his place 13:14:12 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 13:14:29 <|amethyst> /msg CIA-45 They're onto us. Activate plan "Monteverdi". 13:17:14 -!- Orionstein has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:45 -!- KGB-45 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:27 <|amethyst> /nick MI-45 13:19:51 MI6-45 13:26:07 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:28:08 03MarvinPA * r322f2df5c672 10/crawl-ref/source/potion.cc: Make potions of decay immediately rot some HP instead of applying rot status 13:28:09 03MarvinPA * ra8125e89b707 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Cap Xom's statloss at 1 unless bored 13:28:09 03MarvinPA * rdb3c33a53a77 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Slightly increase the durations of some Xom monster effects (confusion, inner flame) 13:36:45 -!- naalis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:19 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 13:40:52 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:41:43 -!- voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:31 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 13:52:12 -!- inde has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:53 -!- bracc has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:54 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56:51 -!- bracc has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:46 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:43 -!- urthmover has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:14:43 -!- Namey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:48 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:22:11 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:23:53 -!- erisdiscordia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:24:33 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:51 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:13 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25:26 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:50 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:51 -!- iasov has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:33 -!- Hosg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:18 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:25 -!- Adeon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:47 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 14:49:14 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:47 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 15:00:50 -!- rjrrt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:00:52 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 15:02:57 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:14:35 -!- ophanim_school has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:35 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:49 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:13 03MarvinPA * rb4e6954b9c80 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Don't let gods bless dancing weapons with permanent brands/enchantments 15:17:41 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:52 galehar: what's the purpose of the "It can be sacrificed." message spam? players generally already know what items can be sacrificed 15:23:43 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:48 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 15:30:02 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:50 !seen evilmike 15:30:50 I last saw evilmike at Thu Aug 30 10:03:45 2012 UTC (10h 27m 5s ago) quitting without a message. 15:31:01 He can't sleep foreva... 15:32:49 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:22 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:25 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:15 Wow, dolorous has been editing the random god wiki pages. 15:45:32 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:21 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:34 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Ukončuji] 15:48:56 -!- _Jordan__ is now known as _Jordan_ 15:50:56 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:51 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:03 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:44 -!- eb is now known as ebarrett 15:57:54 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:57 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:01:56 -!- dg_ has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:07:01 -!- ereinion has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:29 -!- Lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:13:10 -!- Aut0Exec has quit [Quit: Later Losers!] 16:16:28 -!- johnthebear has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:19 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:22 Is there a way to remove a door_open_prompt when an event has happened? 16:20:31 elliptic: the idea came up when I introduced the sacrifice prompt before exploring. evilmike suggested that we should give the information upon arriving at the cell 16:20:44 but you're right that it's uselessly spammy 16:20:57 I guess I'll move it to the prompt itself 16:22:09 it'd help already if there was a way to mute this particular message imho 16:27:21 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:28:33 !tell Grunt I just got snake_pit on a city level, and most of the walls were missing 16:28:33 elliptic: OK, I'll let Grunt know. 16:29:18 dgn.destroy_marker might work, I guess 16:31:32 >:( 16:31:32 Grunt: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:38:53 Grunt: more specifically, the x's in the vault description were missing and the c's were present (well, some of them) 16:57:09 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:08 do you know something about door prompts? If so, it'd be easier for me to leave runed doors without their special functionality for now and have someone else take a look. 16:59:39 -!- RollieTG has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 16:59:57 (I have no clue about autoexplore interactions. This can be learned, of course...) 17:06:08 03kilobyte * rb3eb8af3d3c3 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Use $GXX rather than $GCC for compile tests. 17:06:30 kilobyte: sounds like it might be easier for galehar 17:12:08 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r4a749203263b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Despoilerize many vaults. 17:12:09 03kilobyte 07glasnost * r57aec7d2a0ae 10/crawl-ref/source/ (27 files in 3 dirs): Runed doors. 17:14:05 03kilobyte * r35613e094ca5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: A desc for Arena Sprint spawn points. 17:14:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:42 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:16:16 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:16:16 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 17:17:16 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:17 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:19:48 kilobyte: did you actually add the runed door tiles? 17:23:37 -!- CaptainPickles has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:24:32 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:48 kilobyte: the tile code you updated in tileidx_feature is duplicated and removed in trunk 17:28:56 galehar: merging as we speak, there's a ton of conflicts, due to wax purge and std:: removal 17:30:11 and I can't test tiles (or even webtiles) beyond compilation right now, I'm in a different country than any of my machines capable of running tiles :p 17:30:43 (until Saturday) 17:30:56 kilobyte: i didnt see them being added when i looked at the commit via gitorious 17:31:03 thats why i asked 17:31:19 alefury: obviously, it needs to be drawn; for now I made it use the regular tile 17:31:46 oh, there are runed door tiles on mantis, and theyre nice too 17:31:49 ill see if i can find them 17:33:02 bundled into 6105 17:33:43 that's decoration that can be added later; for now I want to be able to proceed with converting vaults 17:34:00 should i reopen and rename the issue? 17:34:44 I mean, vaults which used secret doors for stopping exploration should get runed ones; if we did that in two steps there'd be a lot of forgotten ones 17:34:53 alefury: would be cool, yeah 17:36:17 done 17:38:48 about merging, yeah the std:: removal makes it painful. I've merged and clean up the android port locally 17:39:06 (still need some testing before I push) 17:39:42 -!- domi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:47 kilobyte: about runed doors, I remember evilmike said that they shouldn't prompt 17:39:52 only stop autoexplore 17:40:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you could add an ES_RUNED_DOOR bit; then add a case in explore_discoveries::found_feature(). Probably there's no need to make it optional, so I think that's about it 17:40:14 and I guess monsters shouldn't be able to open them before you do 17:40:36 <|amethyst> yeah, for stopping autoexplore, not necessarily prompting 17:40:42 <|amethyst> %git 079782c 17:40:56 |amethyst * 0.11-a0-601-g079782c: Add explore_stop = portals, branches (6 months ago, 7 files, 32+ 8-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/079782c0c992 17:40:56 should autoexplore stop when you discover the runed door or when it otherwise would try to open said door? 17:40:56 while adding stuff in explore_discoveries which stops autoexplore, adding auras would be nice too 17:41:27 ChrisOelmueller: I'd say on discovery. Also simpler to implement 17:41:46 would it give a message? 17:42:06 well, yes, just like any other discovered feature 17:42:27 |amethyst: that's what I thought, but there's the question of confirmation prompts on opening 17:42:32 maybe vaults could add some more specific or thematic warnings 17:42:51 which is a debatable issue I don't personally care about 17:43:03 galehar: could be added too, yeah 17:43:31 kilobyte: everybody hates prompts. I'd say we start without a prompt for opening, I don't think it would be necessary 17:43:48 stopping when autoexplore tries to open the door would be more useful than stopping on discovering 17:43:51 better a stronger warning message on discovery if the vault is really scary 17:44:23 does autoexplore after discovery open the door, or will discovering it put eg a travel exclusion on the door? 17:44:25 alefury: why? 17:44:25 a prompt would be bad, yes, and can be added for specific doors if necessary 17:44:42 -!- Syrio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:44:44 (which could go away when the door is opened) 17:44:47 alefury: that was what i thought too, yes 17:44:53 galehar: autoexplore might stop on discovering the door, then go somewhere else, then take you right into a dangerous vault during a later autoexplore 17:44:56 Zannick: will likely open the dooor if you don't exclude it 17:45:13 this would be especially bad with explore_delay=-1 17:45:25 <|amethyst> alefury has a good point 17:45:35 my suggestion would then be to have (or enable) the door to be autoexcluded 17:45:46 alefury: if you don't want to enter the vault, you need to exclude the door. It doesn't change anything when autoexplore stops 17:46:00 maybe not necessary for the minor doors, but the "really scary" ones perhaps 17:46:27 let's start with something simple. We'll add features if necessary 17:46:39 a-ok 17:46:52 galehar: im not saying stopping on discovery would be bad, just worse 17:46:53 stops autoexplore, vaults can define a specific discovery message 17:46:55 <|amethyst> maybe an option to autoexclude? 17:46:58 if its easier to implement its better to have than nothing 17:47:06 |amethyst: no prompts please 17:47:22 <|amethyst> no, I mean a flag that can be set by the vault but can be overridden by an option 17:47:37 ah. hm 17:47:58 i was considering option as in .crawlrc but obviously we don't want too many options 17:47:59 <|amethyst> exclude_runed_doors = always, prompt, dangerous, never 17:48:16 03kilobyte 07glasnost * ra9eeb4a370e8 10/ (1535 files in 105 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into glasnost 17:48:19 seems a bit overkill 17:48:20 <|amethyst> (where "dangerous" is default, and refers to a flag that can be set by vaults) 17:48:42 let's ask evilmike, it's his idea :) 17:48:45 i dunno, sounds convenient 17:48:46 <|amethyst> I figured this way we could see what people actually use, so we know what would be the best default 17:48:51 for me, bedtime 17:48:59 |amethyst: that could be considered an information leak unless the door being dangerous is also mentioned in some way when you discover it 17:49:01 * galehar sleeps 17:49:04 good night 17:49:11 galehar: bye! 17:49:17 <|amethyst> alefury: presumably all the ones that set that would set an appropriate description/warning 17:49:26 <|amethyst> galehar: night 17:49:49 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:49 the whole point of runed doors is to point out danger 17:50:05 yeah, i think a dangerous flag isnt needed 17:50:24 but an option to automatically autoexclude them might be nice 17:50:28 <|amethyst> so just yes (default), prompt, no ? 17:50:31 <|amethyst> or default to no 17:50:46 default to whatever does not open the door right after hitting o again 17:50:49 depends on how they are used whether the default should be yes or no 17:50:50 <|amethyst> because if it's dangerous, autoexploring into it the second time you press o is just as bad as doing it the first time 17:51:04 lots of people hit o several times in a row because of item pickup etc 17:51:17 well, after you discover the door you have a chance to switch to manual exploration 17:51:36 if you continue autoexploring it is because you want to, not because somebody forces you to 17:51:52 <|amethyst> or because you forgot about/missed the door because of combat or whatever 17:51:59 <|amethyst> s/door/announcement/ 17:52:10 manually excluding all those doors sounds like they will just work like regular doors with a warning on first sight 17:52:24 i would prefer if these doors were simply not opened by autoexplore, or even better: only opened if autoexplore starts next to the runed door 17:52:27 which is not what i'd imagine when telling players that what lies ahead may be dangerous 17:53:04 (to achieve that effect, just placing a statue would work too, no need to mess with doors at all) 17:53:30 ChrisOelmueller: im not sure how theyre going to be used. they might not necessarily always point out danger 17:53:35 <|amethyst> alefury: hm, that might be better, since it avoids cluttering the map with exclusions 17:53:42 documenting their intended use somewhere would be good 17:53:46 also for future vaultmakers 17:53:58 <|amethyst> presumably the door vault would use these along the outside, for example 17:54:11 |amethyst: exclusions also prompt you when stepping on them, and dont go away after you open the door 17:54:19 <|amethyst> alefury: right 17:54:50 rescuing door vault will be a tough task in any case 17:55:06 door vault is so good though 17:55:06 <|amethyst> door vault could use lua to work kind of like it does now :) 17:55:23 <|amethyst> would be tricky to allow the monsters to open it though :( 17:55:38 yes, it'd be a shame to lose it 17:55:47 it would also be sad to see the reverse gold behind secret door vault go, but that one probably really cant be salvaged :( 17:56:04 <|amethyst> maybe turn everything into door when you step next to it 17:56:05 -!- domi has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:20 <|amethyst> then the monsters can't escape until you know about it 17:56:40 <|amethyst> which might be more interesting... though avoidable I guess (never stand next to a box if you can help it) 17:57:06 <|amethyst> maybe a timer too 17:57:10 wasn't part of the original point of runed doors also supposed to be "these never get opened by monsters" 17:57:10 which would allow you to read ?noise two squares away from it without any effect on the vault? 17:57:36 or first opened 18:00:07 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:25 HangedMan: Lua has allowed that for a long time. 18:04:40 It's easy to flag a door as "don't let monsters open this first" 18:04:56 (Though if you try to tie a triggerer to the same door, Bad Things Happen.) 18:06:28 well yes (I've used it), I thought it was about making those uses explicit to players instead of weird vault-by-vault spoiler stuff 18:06:50 like, you open the door and the runes disperse to indicate monsters can use it now 18:10:20 03kilobyte 07nomes * r2ab481dd588b 10/ (5761 files in 202 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into nomes 18:11:01 noms 18:11:04 dtsund: that's currently the case: monsters can't open or eat runed doors, when you open them yourself the runes go away 18:11:11 so are nomes and lava orcs the next species to be added :) 18:11:46 not if something cooler comes along 18:12:01 (and gets added much faster, that is) 18:12:40 elliott: I'd go with lava orcs and djinn, nomes are on hold. I updated them only to reduce conflicts. 18:12:40 oh, and what about golems 18:12:40 =p 18:12:40 neither lava orcs nor djinn are cool, BTW 18:12:40 -!- no is now known as Guest85049 18:12:50 i realize 18:12:58 lava is hot, djinn are literally made of smokeless fire :p 18:13:01 ??pedantry 18:13:02 pedantry[1/1]: surely whipping flame clouds is the antithesis of "cool" 18:13:08 golems suck halfling balls 18:13:22 ?? sarcasm 18:13:23 I don't have a page labeled sarcasm in my learndb. 18:13:34 gracecamel (L4 MiFi) ASSERT(book_pos > 0 && max_levels >= 0) in 'spl-book.cc' at line 2046 failed. (D:3) 18:13:45 (at least, current proposals. I bet it's possible to create a good one, of course) 18:15:00 * kilobyte follows galehar. Bie! 18:24:21 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:53 -!- Guest85049 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:26:04 -!- Syrio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:26:13 erdraug (L23 HOEE) ASSERT(branch != NUM_BRANCHES && depth != -1) in 'travel.cc' at line 2983 failed. (D:10) 18:26:24 <|amethyst> hrm 18:26:33 <|amethyst> !lm erdraug crash -log 18:26:34 2. erdraug, XL27 TeAE, T:224995 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/erdraug/crash-erdraug-20120519-225321.txt 18:27:24 <|amethyst> oh right 18:27:31 <|amethyst> http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/erdraug/crash-erdraug-20120830-232610.txt 18:28:10 <|amethyst> project noise bug 18:28:13 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:53 <|amethyst> well, maybe not, but I'm not too motivated to look into a 0.10.2 bug 18:29:10 <|amethyst> !lm gracecamel crash -log 18:29:11 1. gracecamel, XL4 MiFi, T:2220 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gracecamel/crash-gracecamel-20120830-231112.txt 18:29:34 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:41 <|amethyst> this one has been showing up fairly frequently... 18:29:58 -!- moxian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:13 -!- Textmode has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:32:30 -!- Yevgeny_Nourish has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:25 <|amethyst> hm, that one has the trog book altar but I have no problem with that as a mifi 18:37:24 -!- _dd has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:37:43 -!- ZRN is now known as ZRN_ 18:38:04 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:04 is that the randart it's generating? 18:38:10 <|amethyst> I don't know 18:38:27 <|amethyst> no way to tell without catching it in the act (or getting a core dump) 18:38:55 -!- ZRN_ is now known as ZRN 18:39:05 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:39:11 can you generate randarts in wizmode? 18:39:21 "any randart" should work 18:39:30 <|amethyst> yes, and I tried most of the ones that can show up that early with no problem 18:39:35 <|amethyst> "randbook" works 18:39:53 <|amethyst> I also tried many of the specific ones from vaults 18:40:06 for something specific, you should be able to do stuff like "robe randart", "any armour randart", etc 18:40:14 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:40:29 I'm not sure if you can also specify that the randart is a *good* one, though. 18:41:37 almost no modifiers stack with "randart" from what little I've tested 18:41:51 they probably affect the base item 18:42:02 i want to guess that it's failing the book_pos > 0 check 18:42:12 <|amethyst> Zannick: which means it didn't pick any spells 18:42:39 -!- faze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:43 the other looks unlikely 18:42:50 * Zannick debugging by source crawling 18:43:58 -!- Utis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:08 ooh, it could be failing max_levels >= 0 18:44:17 can't discount that just yet 18:44:18 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:06 if spell_difficulty(spell) exceeds max_levels 18:45:59 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:13 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:46:31 when, eg. chosen_spells[book_pos] starts with a spell in it. 18:47:28 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:30 http://dobrazupa.org/saves/Lightli-crawl-git-9ff5bb36d5-120830-2344.tar.bz2 18:47:31 ToastyP (L24 CeHu) (Shoals:5) 18:47:37 <|amethyst> that would require both specifying max_levels and including fixed spells with more levels 18:48:38 <|amethyst> oh 18:49:06 it seems so, yes 18:49:29 -!- Morphy has quit [Client Quit] 18:50:06 ah, i missed the part about trog_book in the dump 18:50:27 Guys, can someone figure out what's going on with the save file? 18:50:47 not with such a vague bug report :P 18:50:50 if you have a broken save, feel free to submit a report on mantis 18:50:51 care to elucidate your issue? 18:50:57 on mantis, yes 18:51:20 DChan (L9 HEHu) (D:7) 18:51:32 !lm Dchan crash -log 18:51:32 Well, I can't play anymore because the game says I already have a save in progress 18:51:33 No milestones for Dchan (crash). 18:51:39 !lm DChan crash -log 18:51:39 No milestones for DChan (crash). 18:51:43 <|amethyst> hm 18:51:55 !lm DChan sprint crash -log 18:51:56 No milestones for DChan (crash). 18:52:00 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/DChan/crash-DChan-20120830-234856.txt 18:52:20 webtiles =p 18:52:26 -!- bracc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:36 <|amethyst> and SIGTERM 18:53:01 <|amethyst> which is usually the infinite loop killer 18:53:24 <|amethyst> or could be that TilesFramework::finish_message blocked 18:56:16 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 18:57:09 by the way, I missed a whole lot of discussion about "runed doors", but here's my thoughts on it. The reason for them is to tell the player "there is dangerous stuff behind this door". Stopping autoexplore on discovery is necessary because of this 18:57:13 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:29 but they're not meant to really obscrut the player in any way. It's just a warning, not some way to idiot-proof dangerous vaults 18:58:17 That was the original idea anyway. Beyond that, monsters probably shouldn't open those doors until the player does 18:58:30 Uh, can someone figure out what's going on? I can't play because it says "another game is already in progress with this save!" 18:59:05 <|amethyst> Lightli: hm 18:59:10 <|amethyst> CSZO right? 18:59:13 yup 18:59:14 you want to ask |amethyst efb 18:59:28 It's not just me, a lot of people are apparently having the same problem 18:59:56 <|amethyst> hrm 19:01:06 <|amethyst> and now I can't connect to webtiles 19:01:34 Webtiles server stopped. 19:03:23 ...and now it works 19:04:07 evilmike: i suggested runed statues as well 19:04:18 ontoclasm: we already have these, sort of 19:04:21 since numerous vaults have them implemented with lua 19:04:28 they're just regular statues with an explore stop thing tacked on 19:04:34 yeah 19:05:05 so yes i don't see the point in having runed doors if they just do that too 19:05:10 Webtiles server started. 19:05:19 ChrisOelmueller: the point is that most vaults can't have statues like that 19:05:38 doors are often right at the edge of the map. No room for statues. 19:05:48 hm. 19:05:49 well, my reason for making them a Thing instead of just a normal statue with lua is that a) one could put force_more = runed statue 19:06:14 and b) it would give players a hint as to why autoexplore stopped there, since autoexplore stops for lots of things you don't really need to care about 19:06:16 ChrisOelmueller: also, besides that, we currently have a type of door (hidden from the player) that monsters can't open until the player does. Runed doors would probably be nice for this 19:06:20 <|amethyst> aha, I've got it 19:06:28 <|amethyst> not the cszo thing, but the randbook thing 19:06:36 -!- MakMorn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:55 <|amethyst> randbook owner:Sif_Muna numspells:1 slevels:1 19:07:09 evilmike: i see why they'd be useful, but i still think something that would prevent automated opening might make sense too (not necessarily needs to be the same thing) 19:07:17 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:07:27 <|amethyst> what happens if it picks "charm randbook"? 19:07:30 -!- Yevgeny_Nourish has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:34 ChrisOelmueller: well, in that case, they can require manual opening. I'm fine with that. I don't think it would need a prompt though 19:07:35 <|amethyst> err, charms 19:07:48 right, no prompts please :) 19:08:52 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:18 <|amethyst> evilmike: since you committed led_sif_book : do you think changing the randbook to slevels:2 (still just one spell) would make it too good? 19:09:57 <|amethyst> evilmike: or would it be better to try to pick a different discipline if that fails? 19:10:20 |amethyst: this is one of those altar vaults which gives you a small bit of loot to "encourage" you, right? 19:10:48 <|amethyst> evilmike: yeah, something like that: randbook owner:Sif_Muna numspells:1 slevels:1 19:11:04 <|amethyst> behind some deep water, with some orcs 19:11:11 <|amethyst> orc wizards 19:11:14 right 19:11:19 I think slevels:2 would be fine 19:11:54 -!- bracc has quit [Quit: bracc] 19:12:00 <|amethyst> actuallyu 19:12:44 <|amethyst> I guess I should fix the problem rather than papering over the thing that triggers it 19:13:58 !seen elliott 19:13:58 I last saw elliott at Fri Aug 31 00:11:11 2012 UTC (2m 47s ago) saying HangedMan: this version has wax on ##crawl. 19:14:00 !seen elliptic 19:14:00 I last saw elliptic at Thu Aug 30 22:25:41 2012 UTC (1h 48m 19s ago) saying elliott: this doesnt sound like a serious FR really on ##crawl. 19:14:11 elliott: are you around? 19:14:33 FR: all non-devs have to have non-letters are initials for their nicks 19:14:42 dpeg_: hi 19:14:49 elliptic: are you around? 19:14:49 i am around, maybe elliptic isn't! 19:15:06 Just like random gods will be... second class gods :) 19:15:07 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:45 -!- dtsund is now known as _dtsund 19:15:55 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 19:16:17 Of course, the FR implies number of devs (in ##crawl-dev) < 27. 19:18:18 will support this if it means mister | can finally be detected with !seen :P 19:19:37 !seen amethyst 19:19:38 Sorry Zannick, I haven't seen amethyst. 19:19:41 !seen |amethyst 19:19:42 Sorry Zannick, I haven't seen amethyst. 19:19:49 !seen \|amethyst 19:19:49 Sorry Zannick, I haven't seen amethyst. 19:19:51 haha 19:19:56 the invisible man 19:20:01 HangedMan: yes, |amethyst would have to upgrade to a letter initial. 19:20:18 -!- Aut0Exec has quit [Quit: Woooot!!!!] 19:22:39 -!- ontoclasm is now known as ^ontoclasm 19:22:49 -!- ereinion has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:22:54 -!- HangedMan is now known as [HangedMan] 19:24:27 That's the spirit! 19:24:35 <|amethyst> okay, my fix is kind of ugly, but it does work 19:24:48 There should be enough unicode glyphs for everyone. 19:26:28 -!- Oddtwang_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:28 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:26 :D 19:30:42 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:01 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 19:31:03 give mu_ µ 19:31:35 Can I get something like ā˜ƒ? 19:32:12 Grunt: no, unfortunately not: you're a dev. If you hand in a receipt proving that you're schizophrenic, your other ego can get the snowman. 19:33:05 -!- Grunt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:11 ...where do I hand in my receipt? 19:33:13 :D 19:33:20 -!- Grunt_ has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:45 <^ontoclasm> Grunt and Grunt' 19:34:47 ^ontoclasm: I think the egos are often very different. 19:35:05 more like Grunt-Jekyll and Grunt-Hyde 19:35:28 Do I get one for, say, all of the combos I've won? :b 19:35:30 <^ontoclasm> negaGrunt 19:35:58 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:10 03|amethyst * rb9ee14c00e75 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Don't crash on slevels:1 theme randbooks. 19:36:16 <[HangedMan]> what do the server owners get? 19:36:17 <^ontoclasm> he's from an alternate reality where crawl is a violent military dictatorship 19:36:29 ^ontoclasm: alternate?? 19:36:38 <^ontoclasm> :Y 19:37:54 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:06 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.11 * r307a5c814fd7 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Don't crash on slevels:1 theme randbooks. 19:38:25 |amethyst: hooray! 19:38:36 I've long been wondering about what was causing the random book-related crashes. 19:40:06 03dolorous * r7e9275d67d45 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Fix wording. 19:43:51 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:52:33 -!- ChongLi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:18 -!- barbs has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:18 -!- notthepope has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:18 -!- elliott has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:18 -!- ttghbbgeww has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:19 -!- Tally has quit [*.net *.split] 19:53:19 -!- myp has quit [*.net *.split] 19:57:24 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:24 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:44 -!- elliott_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:55 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:00 elliott seems to have developed a netsplit personality. 19:58:03 -!- elliott_ is now known as elliott 19:58:10 i can report that marvinpa is still alive 19:58:24 -!- wjchen has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:26 * Grunt ponders if MarvinPA can confirm his liveliness. 19:58:26 however he has gone mad and is trying to take over the devteam from his alternate -dev 19:58:37 * MarvinPA cackles 19:58:53 oh no he came back 19:58:59 i'm done for 19:59:26 We want a written receipt, with signature and seal! 20:10:54 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:12:49 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:09 reddit: "...while DCSS is highly praised for the game balance, usability and so on, I've heard some complaints about the atmosphere being neglected, e.g. Mountain Dwarves being removed due to game mechanic reasons." 20:21:27 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:59 That's not the first time I've seen that comment. 20:22:02 In a few years, Chinese whispers will have transformed the MD removal into something Monstrous :) 20:22:05 Grunt: oh, sorry 20:22:10 Either you've brought it up here before, or-- 20:22:12 ...yes, you have. :b 20:22:18 no, I wasn't aware of 20:22:19 -!- eb has quit [] 20:22:30 * Grunt ponders the "or". 20:22:56 I read it right now for the first time, I doubt I pasted it here before :) 20:23:03 Maybe one of the later snippets of that discussion made it into badreddit courtesy of someone else? 20:23:14 badreddit? 20:23:23 I don't tend to trawl reddit, so presumably someone else has mentioned it here or in ##crawl recently. 20:23:26 ??badreddit 20:23:27 badreddit[1/16]: If someone were to ask me about badreddit, I would point to people down voting me for calling NaTm of Chei "awful" and all the personal messages I get about how I must suck as a person/player if I can't "tolerate" NaTm of Chei 20:23:32 ...sixteen, now? 20:23:35 Wow. 20:23:43 * dpeg_ reads them 20:23:47 * Grunt too. 20:23:49 most of it could probably be purged 20:23:53 -!- Edgeworthem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:24:22 ??badreddit[7] 20:24:23 badreddit[7/16]: Also Spellcasting being the highest skill is nigh-on impossible, as it takes more training to level up Spellcasting than any other skill. 20:24:24 my opinion about the "badfoo" learndb entries is they should be limited to stuff that's funny. bad advice is boring, but insane stuff (or funny out of context stuff) is good 20:24:49 -!- ^ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:03 It's really funny how actual changes (MD removal, ?MM chance) end up with the players. 20:25:18 I've seen a lot of people upset about insulation being removed 20:25:51 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:26:57 fr: package a staff of air with copies of the Book of the Sky so they stop complaining. :b 20:27:23 evilmike: I agree re:badreddit. It's okay if players develop wrong opinions about gameplay and communicate them. 20:27:43 Define "wrong opinions about gameplay". :) 20:28:00 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:17 well, about half the learndb is bad inside jokes, and the other half only exists so irc users can feel smug 20:28:19 Grunt: I just read all 16 badreddits, there is some hilariously bad advice in there. But it is plain to see how somebody got there, and it's okay. 20:28:20 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:47 need to add a querystring arg to the badwiki essay so it can support arbitrary bad 20:29:33 speaking of inside jokes: someone adopt lava orcs :( 20:29:59 Eronarn: I don't understand the gameplay appeal. 20:30:34 you heat up at high tension and get buffs from it 20:30:47 dpeg_: people like their gameplay a lot. having a meter you fill up is fun 20:30:51 aside from that, it's worth noting that we don't have any races that favour fire magic as a skill 20:31:04 we have a lot of races with +1 Fire, and red dracs get +2. That's it. 20:31:35 !apt HO 20:31:35 HO: Air: -2, Armour: 1, Axes: 2!, Bows: -1, Charms: -1, Conj: 0, Xbows: -1, Dodge: -2, Earth: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100!, Fighting: 2, Fire: 1, Hexes: 0, HP: 1, Ice: -1, Inv: 2!, Long: 1, Maces: 1, MP: 0, Nec: 0, Poison: -1, Polearms: 1, Shields: 1, Short: 0, Slings: -1, Splcast: -2, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -2, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 20:31:43 see, fire 1. perfect 20:31:47 fr: Fire Elves, so that we can displace DEFE from their lofty position in our collective consciousness. :b 20:32:05 actually i think i need to base lava orcs off HO again, pretty sure their apts changed 20:32:06 <|amethyst> what abbreviation? Fv? 20:32:49 Feh. They should just forcefully take over FE. :b 20:33:01 <|amethyst> Fe can become WC 20:33:15 <|amethyst> but not in the "toilet" sense 20:33:21 oh I assumed that was the joke 20:33:30 we need a Follicle race and an uh, Fumbler class 20:33:34 so you can streak FeFi FoFum 20:36:39 <|amethyst> other than the removal of stalkers, race/class changes have recently tended towards making new words available 20:36:55 <|amethyst> that's the real reason MD was removed 20:36:57 I tried to have a god using tension like that (thought it might be good for Okawaru) but it's hard to get it work correctly. Tension can be abused by players. 20:37:14 amethyst: Don't tell! 20:37:30 tensionscumming! 20:37:37 ...except that's not particularly a thing, is it. 20:37:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:04 <|amethyst> Grunt: I have no idea what these Xom degenerates have been up to 20:38:09 <[HangedMan]> I remember some disfavourable feedback about tension-based xom from the most famous xomscummer 20:38:22 Grunt: there is some experiece with DS guardians, I think. 20:38:22 Disfavourable in what sense? 20:38:41 The one time I got demonic guardian as a mutation, I died horribly. :b 20:38:51 Then again, most of my demonspawn have died horribly... 20:39:05 Grunt: I hopr that was your just punishment of having taking Okawaru :) 20:39:21 you beogh that was his punishment? 20:39:25 <[HangedMan]> I think ragdoll was saying xom overacts too much with high tension 20:39:47 Xom has ADHS. 20:39:52 isn't the consensus that tension is fairly scummable 20:39:55 if you really want to 20:40:12 elliott: no idea... Grunt seems to challenge the notion. 20:40:24 It seems to me that it *is* scummable; it's just considerably more tedious to do so. 20:40:27 -!- Twinge has quit [] 20:40:30 That's why I am not sure a species or god should be based on it (Xom aside. 20:40:33 well tedium has never stopped scummers :) 20:40:35 <[HangedMan]> watching someone (minmay?) use self-petrify, screaming sword, and jiyva in zigsprint was pretty amusing 20:40:36 Grunt: ^ 20:41:02 todo: release more LRD monsters so that self-petrify is less viable. 20:41:03 :D 20:41:20 monqy: speaking of tension -- some of your god plans involve something vaguely like tension right 20:41:35 maybe 20:41:48 * dpeg_ likes how elliott keeps pretending he and monqy were different persons. 20:41:51 <[HangedMan]> clearly give a golem lrd because golems are some of the worst enemies still in 20:42:10 <[HangedMan]> or at least having stone and iron and crystal is 20:42:27 [HangedMan]: They could be much, much better, I am sure. Only: thought! contemplation!! effort!!! 20:42:39 I was a little bit disappointed to find out that I wasn't the first person to think of statues turning into golems. :b 20:42:45 (In vaults. 20:42:46 ) 20:43:13 Speaking of which, I don't think I've yet to see anyone encounter any of my Hell stair vaults. 20:43:18 Er. 20:43:23 I think I used too many negatives there. :b 20:43:49 <[HangedMan]> I remember marvinpa finding the tartarus one and scoffing at further use of gloom 20:44:00 <|amethyst> !lm * map~~grunt.*stairs.* s=place 20:44:03 No milestones for * (map~~grunt.*stairs.*) 20:44:13 dpeg_: have to keep up the illusion 20:44:51 -!- Turgor has quit [] 20:46:03 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:15 Incidentally, 20:48:19 !lg * map=~grunt 20:48:24 30. sanka the Wrestler (L23 DrTm), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a red draconian (searing blast) in D:26 (grunt profane halls) on 2012-08-30, with 402932 points after 75000 turns and 6:30:54. 20:48:33 (Its first kill!) 20:48:49 <[HangedMan]> but is it as good as the first spin cycle death 20:48:58 It was actually rather plain. 20:49:10 !lg * map=hangedman_spin_cycle 1 -tv 20:49:11 1. coolrobin, XL19 DDMo, T:48107 requested for FooTV. 20:49:26 -!- _dtsund is now known as dtsund 20:49:47 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 20:50:36 does profane halls have a profane servitor 20:50:47 It does not 20:50:48 . 20:51:39 bug 20:51:39 <[HangedMan]> not sure how well a profane servitor would work with the minihells and deep elves/draconians but I guess it'd work for the minitar? 20:51:42 * dpeg_ wonders if Grunt alter ego has trouble with interpunction. 20:51:56 Almost never, dpeg. 20:52:13 HangedMan, were I to place them anywhere, it'd probably be in the central area. 20:52:18 I think it works fine as is, though. 20:52:23 <[HangedMan]> yeah 20:52:43 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:43 minotaur in minitar 20:53:54 <[HangedMan]> although a quick check does prompt me to note that giving the tile of traditionally rock walls to stone walls in grunt_zot_portal looks a little off 20:54:04 * Grunt flattens elliot like a pancake with a giant spiked club!!! 20:54:19 * Grunt ponders who the elliot he just flattened is. 20:55:37 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:58:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:40 -!- neoxx has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:48 Add me to the "paralyzed to death by Rupert" club 21:08:55 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:11 wrong channel 21:09:17 duh 21:10:08 -!- eurtek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13:20 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:08 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:22:05 -!- evilmike_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:53 * dpeg_ high-fives the channel. 21:25:49 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:47 -!- ryak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:20 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:15 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:20 -!- OoO has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:35:02 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:57 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:40:07 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:27 -!- ferretball has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:50 -!- Flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:43:22 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:51:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:25 -!- [HangedMan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:08 -!- vwzzz has quit [] 22:04:39 -!- Rewans has quit [] 22:13:21 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:11 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:15 -!- djoor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:24 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:26:05 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:17 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 22:34:21 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:38:43 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:42:59 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 22:45:14 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 22:48:03 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 23:01:22 -!- Exister has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:40 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:25 -!- Morokiane has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:37 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:13:58 What's next to go after T&D? 23:14:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:15:05 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 23:18:56 <|amethyst> walls 23:20:03 Followed by air 23:20:05 "You cannot breathe! You die..." 23:21:11 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:40 |amethyst: walls are already gone, haven't you seen those rune vaults with no walls? 23:31:04 -!- ryak has quit [Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night] 23:39:10 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: Counted eleven steps when his brain said ten.] 23:44:41 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 23:48:43 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:50 -!- evilmike_ is now known as evilmike 23:58:48 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev