00:00:55 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 00:07:11 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-54-gfad550f 00:07:55 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:12:20 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-232-gdf669bc (34) 00:13:01 -!- Ruski has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:16 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:59 -!- araganzar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:22:32 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:07 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:09 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:56 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:43:17 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:30 -!- naalis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:09 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 00:56:41 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 00:59:06 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:00:10 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:26 -!- Helmschank has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:03 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:07:30 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:19 -!- Cheibrodos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:15:16 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 01:28:10 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:29 -!- ibanix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:24 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:02 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 01:34:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:52 -!- Tenaya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:36:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:23 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:37:11 -!- magistern has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:42:51 -!- afd__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:02 -!- kincht has quit [] 01:43:04 -!- bmfx_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:45:49 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:43 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:30 -!- evilmike has quit [] 02:15:39 -!- freefall has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:10 -!- freefall has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:54 Vertical large gate tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6105) by ontoclasm 02:34:27 -!- KKCryptic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:35:58 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:53 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:40 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:50:15 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:13:43 -!- ibanix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:43 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:43 -!- hart has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:01 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:20:46 -!- Mumcon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:22:34 -!- link_108 has quit [] 03:29:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:29:30 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:30:12 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:31:24 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:12 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:22 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:25 -!- FunnyMan3595 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:29 -!- sbluen has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:56:33 -!- ldierk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:50 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:03:19 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 04:10:47 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:16:15 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:37 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 04:20:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 04:23:59 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:24:50 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:28:49 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 04:28:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:25 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:41 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:23 -!- ldierk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:32:47 -!- ldierk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:02 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:15 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46:10 are #5140 and #6046 still bugged? I can't seem to be able to reproduce them. 04:49:23 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 04:53:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:28 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:53:28 galehar: I can't seem to pull from gitorious right now, so I don't know whether it was fixed very recently, but the bugs are easy to reproduce in 241a7c8 04:53:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:01 galehar: just create an efreet in a corridor, wake it up somehow, and then teleport away to some place connected to the corridor in the map by only one side 04:55:13 then check X every turn until you see cyan 04:55:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 04:56:32 none of the commits since then look very likely to fix it to me, but I could be missing something 05:05:09 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:47 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:35 -!- NeremWorld has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:55 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:18:25 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:33 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 05:22:47 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:15 -!- VengefulCarrot has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:26:15 -!- Grildrak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:45 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 05:41:57 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:47 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 05:58:04 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:39 -!- Gastrox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:07:50 -!- wire has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:11:30 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:30 ADOM fans raised 48k for a remaking of their game. 06:22:21 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:27 dpeg: worse, the 48k are for a bugfix release. 06:25:36 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:02 whats bad about that? people make money making games, nothing wrong with that 06:27:22 im glad there are people who do it for free, though! :) 06:28:00 actually, the bugfix release would have happened anyway, just not so fast 06:28:58 i don't have a problem with people spending their money the way they like but _i_ wouldn't have taken the money to do a bugfix release i already promised 10 years ago (i know it's more complicated than that) 06:29:59 well, some people care about money more than others, and some people are jerks 06:30:17 if those are the ones making a game you like, too bad 06:30:20 sucks to be an adom fan i guess 06:31:02 i still think its nice that people care enough to raise that amount of money 06:33:01 i just hope they get what they paid for and are happy with it. i have some doubts about biskup's design skills (after all, he's no dpeg!) and i'd say the chances that a heavily changed adom is better than the one that's been used for years are about 50/50 06:33:07 -!- ldierk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:36 -!- ldierk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:26 -!- nelq has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:16 alefury: my main beef is this: would we have been able to remove MD (also goes for many other, less contentious nerfs and removals) if players paid us? 06:42:41 bhaak: *blush* 06:42:41 -!- bhaak_mob has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:48 Probably hust Swiss humour, though :) 06:43:24 Swiss have humor? 06:45:08 just because you get money that doesn't mean you should feel to be under any obligation to do anything :-) 06:45:21 yes, they have - a French influence 06:45:34 bhaak: of course, but will it work like this? I don't think so. 06:45:43 Yeah, just do it like toady. "Give me money, and I'll keep doing the shit I've been doing." 06:45:49 Just imagine the MD shitstorm *with* money involved. 06:45:52 i was born almost as far away from french influence as possible. also, French have humor? 06:46:17 bhaak: Absolutely. Every other century, they start a revolution for shits and giggles. 06:46:23 "give me my dwarf back or i never ever will give you any money anymore!!!!!111" <- where's the problem? 06:46:44 Anyway, I totally despise the ADOM business model, so I hope they fall flat :) 06:47:06 (Whereas with Nethack, I just hope that a decent fork will be referenced in the future, not the mess that's vanilla.) 06:47:40 well, it was either "we will give you a bugfix release in an undetermined future" or "we will give it to you NOW and some shit and put it on steam and maybe make adom development sustainable" 06:48:26 although from several comments he made, i considered it "give me money so i or others can endure the pain of working through my just-starting-learning-c code" 06:48:45 -!- yogidabear has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:14 haha 06:49:52 I saw him boasting that new ADOM will feature the most brilliant tileset in roguedom. Let's just hope that our tile artists will show 'em. 06:52:51 it might /look/ good but i would be surprised if it would be much better than nethack's tiles mode. there's only so much you can scrape from the screen and even nethack's integrated tiles feels tacked on in places 06:57:09 i like crawl's tiles 06:57:53 i just wish there werent three different versions (normal, mobile, webtiles), each with their own improvements over the other two 06:58:04 -!- tJener has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:05 i wish i could have all the good stuff :( 06:58:37 Make everything webtiles! (don't, I already got shot down on this issue) 06:59:56 im pretty sure webtiles is still the worst version of tiles (the "web" part is great of course) 07:00:38 the webtiles menus are so much better than the ones for local tiles, though 07:01:16 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:44 alefury: Yeah it's probably the worst atm (I don't play tiles at all) but having only one version would allow devs to focus on one architecture. 07:02:02 but there are 3 architectures... 07:03:13 Yeah but webtiles could potentially run on any of them, if you let someone else provide a server. 07:03:21 Not really feasible... 07:03:26 unifying mobile and the other versions is technically pretty much impossible, and makes no sense at all because it actually needs a different interface 07:03:42 ok 07:04:03 of course you can play webtiles in a browser on a phone, but webtiles doesnt have mouse support... 07:04:18 doesn't HAVE, will probably get in the future? 07:04:32 also, if you actually want to play without internet access, lots of overhead (having to run both the server and the client), which would not be good for a phone 07:04:55 I said it's not feasible, but there would be advantages. 07:04:55 afaik there are a few things with higher priority on edlothiol's todo list 07:04:56 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:04:57 Nevermind 07:05:13 there would be advantages, but i think the disadvantages would be bigger 07:05:49 i do so wish webtiles had mouse support, though 07:06:03 mouse movement makes all the places where autoexplore doesnt work so much more tolerable 07:07:49 at least you can scroll the map via mouse, and you can do so independently as a spectator, which is super awesome 07:08:11 independent access to inventory, m and % would be great, too 07:08:39 edlothiol: ^^ 07:11:47 oh yes -- is that in reach? 07:22:06 kind of 07:24:33 I'll have a working inventory tab (like in local tiles) soon, so spectators could look at that 07:25:47 -!- Kenran has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:16 I don't know if I will make the actual inventory menu accessible to spectators, since that is still mostly rendered on the server side, which would lead to all kinds of contortions and/or code duplication if spectators should be able to see it independently 07:29:36 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:14 alefury: mobile version isn't very different from local tiles. It's just a port, the code is the same. 07:32:20 And it will be merged soon 07:34:28 edlothiol: wonderful. Being able to do % and Ctrl-O while spectating would be so cool :) 07:34:53 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:35:53 dpeg: I think he just said that such feature are unlikely to be implemented in webtiles 07:36:23 would need true client/server to pull that kind of tricks 07:36:52 I live in a console. 07:37:01 Does that make it easier or worse? 07:37:08 same 07:37:21 pity that 07:37:54 maybe I should kickstart a project to implement it and work full time on it :) 07:38:11 I would donate 500$ to you! =) 07:38:17 I do hope to implement something like that, and getting the data to the client is easy, but I also want to avoid duplicating too much code :/ 07:39:12 edlothiol: I have no clue, but wouldn't it be possible to have partial dumps (to files, one for inventory, one for Ctrl-O etc.) which are done when requested by a spectator, and then sent to the spectator? 07:39:20 since it increases the burden everytime someone wants to add/change the interface 07:39:25 But that's probably way too crude. 07:39:28 yes 07:40:44 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:46:46 also, there's questions like which keymappings (the player's, the spectator's or none) should be in effect 07:47:19 (ideally the spectator's, but that would require somehow reading the spectator's rc file) 07:48:26 So what do the devs plan on removing next? They've already removed FOUR spells in .12 so far. 07:48:47 players 07:49:55 MD! 07:50:02 oh no, we already did 07:50:13 let's see, something popular... 07:50:15 let's readd MD so we can remove them again 07:50:17 Trog! 07:51:05 Lightli: more seriously, secret doors are probably going to be removed 07:51:15 3 levels of Vaults and 2 of Crypt 07:51:27 Lightli: the current devs have learned their lesson from the mistakes of the past, so they do all the nerfing and removal upfront in the development cycle, so that players will be happy when there's only "add this, buff that" in the second half, up to release. 07:51:38 Oh. 07:52:17 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:19 I knew Vaults was getting an overhaul, and I'll live with it so long as the last floor is still called Vaults 8. But Crypt's getting cut down too? 07:52:20 Perhaps kilobyte will finally conjure up enough momentum to remove those annoying halflings. 07:52:30 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:52:30 Lightli: sure, not an overly exciting branch. 07:52:37 No, not the hobbits! 07:52:47 Why remove halflings? Too similar to kobolds? 07:53:00 * dpeg declares official support to hobbit removal. 07:53:13 Lightli: why the last level of V would be called V:8 if it's the 5th? It doesn't make any sense 07:53:19 Lightli: I'm not a good person to judge, I never played one seriously. 07:53:40 at this point i think HE are less relevant 07:53:58 dpeg: actually, I don't think kb really cares about them. I think it's a bit of a joke 07:54:10 galehar: I like all the branch cutting, and I'm really glad you keep doing it. Do you think dungeon shrinkage could come up at some point, too? 07:54:13 ^Simple: explain it as V5 - V7 having collapsed under their own weight 07:54:15 galehar: sure, so do I 07:54:43 Oh god, if you guys keep cutting floors, I'll never be able to cast Fire Storm by the end of Lair ever again 07:54:59 Lightli: preemptive whining. 07:54:59 Lightli: seriously, not gonna happen. 07:55:05 is that a bad thing 07:55:16 I was joking 07:55:19 In my opinion, the cross levels are really cool (almost always a challenge), because they're so small. So shrinking D would get us that effect, but in a randomised and 'convergent' manner. 07:55:27 Lightli: you do V and C before Lair? 07:55:41 absolutego: I don't think it achieves what the preemptive whiner wants to achieve. 07:55:50 dpeg: but... 27! 07:55:52 ^No, I play DEFE. I've pulled it off ONCE to begin with. 07:55:58 -!- atrodo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:56:07 galehar: yes, I know -- the 27 is sacrosanct. Hence smaller dungeon levels, the deeper you go. 07:56:18 And even then, I didn't get it castable until the very end of Lair 8. 07:56:35 ^How small would the last floor be compared to the first one? 07:57:01 We start with 80x72. I think ending with around (randomisation!) 60x40 would already make a huge effect. 07:57:29 there's more and more late D stuff these days, i'm enjoying that part of the game quite a bit. cutting down levels and making them smaller is a good idea, but i'd start with Vaults, by far 07:57:31 hope we can still fit the big vaults in them 07:57:32 (This has come up before: large vaults can of course be added to later D levels, and encompassing is always okay.) 07:57:43 galehar: it 07:58:00 s just the base map the builder starts with, can attach arbitrary vaults to it 07:58:54 (and loot/monsters should be unchanged, unless we modify those for other reasons) 07:59:37 <|amethyst> !tell buppy looks like you got your game working again? 07:59:37 |amethyst: OK, I'll let buppy know. 08:00:03 late D should already have been noticably made more variable since primary vaults can place in other layouts now and late D was weighted towards vaults 08:00:28 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:30 <|amethyst> !lg pubby crash -log 08:00:30 Unknown selector: verb 08:00:35 <|amethyst> !lm pubby crash -log 08:00:36 1. pubby, XL27 DDEE, T:115810 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20120822-025407.txt 08:01:04 HangedMan: it is very noticeable in my experience 08:01:07 (surprisingly) 08:01:42 well, it's certainly pretty obvious when you get something like a cross level with a corner suddenly containing a vault 08:11:02 or when you get one of the smaller layout_basic generations and the level outside the vault is pretty small 08:11:02 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:11:02 the layout depths are pretty arbitrarily placed and could be modified for different deep feels (why are so many layouts set to stop at d:22?) 08:11:02 by the way, was the part of zot:5 outside the lungs cut down significantly? 08:11:02 zot also got more layouts and some of those can tend toward the small side 08:11:02 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:11:02 i've had two really tiny ones 08:11:02 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15:26 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:15:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: CAO is down for major renovations, back by early September, but try CSZO instead! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious! 08:17:37 Napkin: so, is CDO still on fire? 08:18:00 Probably 08:18:05 -!- tJener has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:55 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24:47 -!- ldierk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:15 -!- ldierk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:27 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:36:55 well... 08:36:56 Napkin: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:37:06 there is noooooo problem with heat, of course 08:37:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:32 but since the weather cooled down the disks have a lower temperature as well 08:37:54 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:40:04 i can't tell if this is sarcasm 08:40:13 weather's worse if anything :p 08:40:23 Napkin: hetzner's reactions to the problems reminds me a lot of my youth in the German Democratic Republic :) 08:40:31 we had 33-35°C in the last days, absolutego ;) 08:41:09 i'm really surprised 08:41:19 they did such a good job so far 08:41:47 Napkin: perhaps you should tell them. Before we moved away from SauceForge, I also left some comments. 08:42:54 i created a ticket, showing them that the disks are at ~60°C.. wondering if they knew of any heat problems. they said they need to reboot the server to open it and check the fans, since "there is no heat problem". 08:43:33 arguing "doch" wouldn't have helped ;) 08:43:43 <|amethyst> this is right after there was a heat problem, too 08:44:02 other DCs of theirs admitted heat problems 08:44:11 <|amethyst> oh, a different DC 08:44:30 No no, that's not what I mean. You can (in a non-offensive way) tell them about the issue -- which is not about the hardware (cannot do much against the weather) but about their reaction. 08:46:17 don't feel like non-offensive yet ;) 08:56:16 galehar: arent there significant interface differences in the mobile version? 08:57:37 it would be quite nice if mobile could be merged, because then desktop local tiles could benefit from the increased interest in interface improvements due to the mobile version 08:59:05 more interface options (with different defaults for mobile and desktop) would be quite nice 09:01:14 Main Dungeon extra tiles. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6106) by white_noise 09:03:35 those are pretty cool :) 09:05:24 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:53 -!- daftfad has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:04 -!- aaaaaa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:10:09 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:44 -!- Lasse- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:23 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:39 alefury: there are a few differences, but for now they are #ifdef 09:20:05 some are just improvements so the #ifdef will just be removed 09:20:23 others will stay #ifdef'd for now, maybe turned into options 09:20:41 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:21:17 #ifdef is fine for anything that has no use in the other version of course 09:21:20 -!- bmfx has quit [Client Quit] 09:22:45 -!- ldierk_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:22:49 but stuff like scaling various parts of the interface, or pruning the stats section a little, are things desktop players could also benefit from 09:23:14 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:27 btw, re displaying mana cost in the abilities tab: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4794 09:26:13 yes, the merging of the android port will be a good occasion to resume dev on local tiles 09:26:18 starting by myself :) 09:30:29 you should do permabuffs :P 09:30:43 yeah, that too :) 09:31:14 some kind of automated recasting would be pretty sweet also because it would show which buffs are badly overpowered 09:33:43 -!- Impy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:39:10 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:21 Anyone has some experience running webtiles locally? The server process outputs "Webtiles server started", but in the browser I get "The WebSocket connection failed". 09:40:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:37 <|amethyst> anything in the log? does your browser work with other webtiles servers? 09:42:17 no (and I set it to DEBUG), yes 09:43:02 what buffles me, is that "netstat -a | grep 8080" doesn't output anything 09:43:19 <|amethyst> ldierk: try -an 09:43:32 <|amethyst> '8080' might be named 'http-alt' on your system 09:43:57 that shows LISTEN 09:44:58 -!- einhander has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:46:03 <|amethyst> which makes sense, since you wouldn't have an open connection to the server if it failed 09:47:26 Just tried, yes 8080 is called http-alt. And yes, LISTEN does make sense 09:49:45 I'm running it in a VM, as it is more or less only for "educational purposes". Maybe that creates some trouble... 09:50:01 <|amethyst> not even "Socket opened" in the server log? 09:50:45 Nope, just the single line "Webtiles server started!" 09:55:03 <|amethyst> hm... edlothiol might know more, when he's around 09:55:32 thanks for your time though! 10:00:50 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:12 -!- wejkrlkd has quit [] 10:03:20 -!- ldierk has quit [Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.] 10:03:36 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 10:05:00 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:10:10 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:07 -!- User82 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:31 -!- User82 has quit [Client Quit] 10:23:00 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:49 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:28:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:01 galehar * 0.12-a0-169-g0a92fda: Fix spell panel ignoring Vehumet MP discount (#4794). (36 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/0a92fda7af30 10:38:01 Translators * 0.12-a0-168-gca6d786: Transifex formatting fix. (6 hours ago, 5 files, 43+ 38-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/ca6d786a1ed4 10:38:01 galehar * 0.12-a0-167-gca514b1: Fix free localisation of invisible monsters with confirmation prompt (#6047). (7 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 12-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/ca514b129fd2 10:38:13 galehar [stone_soup-0.11] * 0.11-b1-56-g40e2c9e: Fix spell panel ignoring Vehumet MP discount (#4794). (37 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/40e2c9e75d74 10:38:13 galehar [stone_soup-0.11] * 0.11-b1-55-gd87a5ee: Fix free localisation of invisible monsters with confirmation prompt (#6047). (7 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 12-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/d87a5ee9e5fc 10:38:18 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:41:34 -!- tsn has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:43:12 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:43:21 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-173-g92a397e: Give Shatter independent checks to destroy each potion instead of destroying entire stacks (46 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/92a397e1be3c 10:43:21 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-172-g14dce8f: Give every item in a floor stack an independent chance of being destroyed (49 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/14dce8fb2bb2 10:43:21 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-171-ged2d7a1: Remove the (miniscule) chance for fire/ice beams to destroy scrolls/potions that they pass over (56 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 5-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/ed2d7a143b46 10:43:21 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-170-ge995af0: Make Fannar's staff of cold a signature weapon (3 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/e995af0f123b 10:51:09 -!- psychoDad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53:43 -!- DraconianTransmu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53:53 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:55:20 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:04:23 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:19 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:35 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:06 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:07 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:44 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:18:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:05 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:48 Grunt * 0.12-a0-177-g4a6a397: Veto disconnected D:1s. (16 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/4a6a3975c1bb 11:19:48 Grunt * 0.12-a0-176-gafec2a9: Disable layout_roguey for D:1 and for primary vault levels. (32 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/afec2a94c379 11:19:48 Grunt * 0.12-a0-175-gb7765a6: Disable random wall types for layouts for absdepth < 4. (33 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/b7765a641e65 11:19:48 Grunt * 0.12-a0-174-gd83b274: Remove depth restrictions on a few layouts. (34 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/d83b2740267e 11:20:14 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:15 -!- Neoxx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:44 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:05 -!- vogonpoet has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:05 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:05 -!- wjchen has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:43 -!- pelotr0n is now known as pelotron 11:22:55 -!- Lawman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:55 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:55 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:20 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:45 -!- bhaak_mob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:26:56 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:26 -!- sbluen has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31:52 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:03 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:00 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:40:29 -!- erisdiscordia_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:06 !tell galehar just to confirm, I can reproduce the cloud bugs in latest trunk also 11:48:06 elliptic: OK, I'll let galehar know. 11:49:37 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 11:52:25 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 11:56:36 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:59:36 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:01:59 -!- neuwiz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:04:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:38 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:47 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:37 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:21 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:24 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:20:53 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:34 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:27:31 -!- Turgor has quit [Quit: going home] 12:31:03 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:39 ??test 12:33:44 wtf 12:35:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:41 !help 12:35:42 !help: Displays help on a command. 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timeout: 246 seconds] 13:28:49 -!- wasd22 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:31:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:03 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:16 . 13:35:53 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:53 MarvinPA * 0.12-a0-178-g3e300d3: Fix beams not correctly placing clouds (6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/3e300d3e6a60 13:41:05 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:01 -!- Orionstein has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:45 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:45:16 -!- Yig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:47:05 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:21 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:52:13 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:35 <|amethyst> brilliance is a wizardry bonus (equal to two rings), *and* a further reduction in fail rate, *and* a bonus to spell power (equivalent to three levels in the relevant schools) 13:54:38 <|amethyst> doh 13:54:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:02 fr artefact ring of brilliance 13:56:27 |amethyst: yes, it's really strong. I realised this when I wizmode-checked what's needed for a plain HuFi to cast Spider Form. Turns out one !brilliance will do. 13:57:04 |amethyst: you think it's too strong? I think that as a consumable, the potion can get away with this. 13:57:14 please do not nerf consumables! 13:57:19 :) 13:57:38 * dpeg this really annoying nerf itch. 13:57:40 +has 13:57:40 getting people to consume consumables is perhaps the hardest problem in any game with consumables 13:57:40 <|amethyst> no, someone in ##crawl asked after someone else suggested that it give increased MP regen 13:58:18 h4x mode 13:58:21 Wensley: in my experience, the problem lies always with the permanent stuff (items and spells). The consumables are okay. 13:59:39 <|amethyst> when I say "doh" it usually means "I just sent that to the wrong channel" :) 13:59:44 haha 14:00:02 -!- Nerem has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:04 <|amethyst> it is a very frequent occurrence :) 14:00:22 are you homer simpson? :P 14:00:27 I see, complaints about removals, haha 14:00:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00:32 <|amethyst> then it would be *annoyed grunt* 14:03:19 -!- fernandotakai has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:42 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:55 * Grunt is not annoyed :b 14:05:05 he, i didn't know that the "adom tileset provider" is not adom-specific but generic: http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye-img/crawl-fpp.png http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye-img/crawl-tiles.png 14:05:17 noteye is cool 14:06:32 -!- NeremWorld has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:44 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:09:56 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:26 Grunt * 0.12-a0-180-g2c1d311: Reinstate the Rogue's Gallery serial vault, with a couple of tweaks. (36 minutes ago, 2 files, 955+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/2c1d31179c33 14:12:26 Grunt * 0.12-a0-179-g8ef483a: Clean up monster Stoneskin. (6 days ago, 4 files, 14+ 1-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/8ef483a37a38 14:14:04 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:28 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:26 Grunt: ogre berserkers in plate mail? 14:17:05 ...how did I not think of that >:| 14:18:08 :P 14:20:04 -!- Wark- has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:18 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:47 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:41 Grunt * 0.12-a0-182-g5d95493: Don't give the Rogue's Gallery OgBe armour it shouldn't be able to wear. (3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/5d95493851c4 14:27:41 Grunt * 0.12-a0-181-g997e41b: Handle cloud spells in checking for monsters being in range. (4 minutes ago, 1 file, 32+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/997e41bd3e74 14:28:46 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 14:29:05 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:32:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:37 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 14:38:25 ... I just entered a ziggurat in Pan and just got taken to another pan level 14:38:28 (in wizmode) 14:40:34 -!- Dixbert is now known as Dixie 14:41:10 -!- Snowclon1 is now known as Snowclone 14:41:16 I just entered a ziggurat in Pan, and went to a ziggurat. 14:41:18 (in wizmode) 14:41:25 How did you get the zig portal? 14:41:31 Naturally generated? 14:41:34 yes 14:43:47 Likewise. 14:43:48 Huh. 14:49:18 -!- anubiscrapfoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:58 you can't explain that 14:55:00 well, it isn't happening again for me 14:55:05 but still very strange 15:02:46 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:01 <|amethyst> edlothiol: any way we can force people to reload their images across the update? this is a problem for 0.11 (reconnecting fixes it I believe) 15:04:22 <|amethyst> edlothiol: 0.11 because it's always the same directory 15:04:28 <|amethyst> edlothiol: likewise 0.10 15:04:29 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:44 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:11 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:40 ??probablility 15:11:40 I don't have a page labeled probablility in my learndb. 15:11:48 ??probability 15:11:49 probability[1/2]: The chances of something with 0.01% probability occuring are certain given how much Crawl you play. 15:12:07 !learn add probability see {gamblers fallacy[1]} 15:12:07 probability[3/3]: see {gamblers fallacy[1]} 15:12:20 ??gamblers fallacy 15:12:20 gamblers fallacy[1/1]: Given a long string of independent events, having lots of positive events in a row does not increase the chance that the next event(s) will be negative, and vice versa. 15:12:27 ??gh guide 15:12:28 gh guide[1/1]: Don't wield a weapon. 15:12:34 what is this 15:12:38 a gh guide 15:13:00 ... 15:13:05 farghle, wrong channel 15:13:29 so I have a commit sitting here to make a milestone for the first time each branch is exited 15:13:59 elliptic: <3 15:14:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:10 but I guess I shouldn't actually push it until I can get greensnark to add a couple lines in Sequell to handle it properly 15:14:20 elliptic: ok! 15:15:32 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:04 -!- white_noise has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:16:05 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:16:42 elliptic: nice timing 15:17:37 * kilobyte guesses Teh Snark's appearance isn't a coincidence 15:17:44 greensnark: meow! 15:17:50 Wensley dpeg : i played this dota-like warcraft 3 map a lot, and consumables were super awesone in that one 15:17:54 Hallo 15:18:06 so awesome that people used them a lot more than permanent items, actually 15:18:10 good 15:18:15 I have to jump out for a meeting but I should be back in 15ish 15:18:15 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:18:19 remove all permanent items 15:18:27 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-184-g1edff79: Remove fruit_found_mask. (21 hours ago, 4 files, 2+ 10-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/1edff79cf6d2 15:18:27 kilobyte * 0.12-a0-183-gafd08e2: Purge a couple of especially bad old tiles. (21 hours ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/afd08e20fc37 15:18:34 Wensley: were they rare? 15:18:35 22:14 <+elliptic> but I guess I shouldn't actually push it until I can get greensnark to add a couple lines in Sequell to handle it properly 15:18:38 the thing is, not getting killed is very important in that kind of game 15:18:42 seems to be a good job. short meetings. 15:18:42 22:13 <+elliptic> so I have a commit sitting here to make a milestone for the first time each branch is exited 15:18:44 dpeg: I think you mean alefury! 15:18:48 (not as important as in crawl, but really important) 15:18:50 erm, sorry 15:19:12 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 15:19:16 dpeg: do you know dota? or any game like it? a common term for the genre is moba 15:19:45 I don't play games, apart from Go and Crawl these days :) 15:19:50 its a team multiplayer game where each player controls a hero and uses it to support an ai-controlled army 15:20:03 you generally can just buy items for gold which you get for killing dudes 15:20:03 aha 15:20:14 so it is good on decisions? 15:20:22 depends on the game :) 15:20:28 its mostly about tactics really 15:20:57 reading your enemy, being proactive, etc. 15:21:44 alefury: I am interesting in hearing good ideas for consumables, spells, other items from games. Not in playing them :) 15:21:47 the thing is, consumables are hardly relevant in most of the games of that type, because the designers choose to emphasize the slippery slope that comes with powerful permanent items for some reason 15:22:11 but in that one i liked, everyone good player bought the consumables 15:22:22 well, they were pretty basic really 15:22:30 * kilobyte ponders what would happen if Crawl removed boots of running. 15:22:45 kilobyte: not a bad idea, imo 15:22:53 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:58 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:06 healing potion, mana potion, a potion that gives immunity to most spells, and a wand that lets you remove enchantments (for example magic immunity) 15:23:25 those were the basic ones, and the ones that everyone pretty much had to buy 15:23:38 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:43 or at least, changed it to -1 movement delay 15:23:46 alefury: not good enough for us -- but sure, other designers will have understood the meaning of "consumable", too 15:23:48 just for the added tactical flexibility, and the possibility to prevent death, or to catch and kill an enemy hero after all 15:24:05 i was mostly responding to what wensley said, that it is very hard to get players to consume consumables 15:24:08 kilobyte: better to remove than to nerf, imo 15:24:15 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:29 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:37 alefury: permadeath makes you a lot better at using them. 15:24:39 i guess in that game the difference is that consumables werent limited, but just cost money. and if you used them efficiently, you always got your money's worth. 15:25:31 i think having very strong consumables makes for a much more interesting game than having very strong permanent items 15:25:41 pretty much always... 15:25:45 alefury: yeah, it definitely makes a difference when consumables must be explicitly acquired rather than just dumped in the player's lap 15:26:30 the former urges you to make a plan and stick to it, and the latter urges you to react and adapt to a situation 15:26:36 but normally games just give you too many consumables 15:26:39 so there's no tension 15:27:01 also i think it helped that it was a competitive multiplayer game. if some bastard gets away because he has a healing potion, youre going to buy one too. if you just play alone, you might just not get that idea. 15:27:43 optimal strategies spread much faster in multiplayer games, especially competitive ones 15:28:18 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:28:43 true 15:28:51 I think part of the reason consumables aren't used as much as maybe they should be is because they aren't initially ID'd 15:29:04 Light does that. 15:29:16 kilobyte: What would happen if you removed boots of running? People would bitch, then move on, as always. It's not like they are needed to win or something. But why do you want to remove them? 15:29:42 I believe the problem is that everyone is intuitively stingy. This also goes for piety. Consider that Fedhas was ignored because you have to part with fruits. 15:30:06 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:21 i think the reason consumables arent used as much as they should is that you have to use many of them proactively. Teleport and blinking get used a lot i'm sure, might, agility and brilliance, not so much 15:30:37 alefury: the problem with these boots is that they so much outshine everything else you can get for the boots slot, including any but greatest randarts 15:30:57 i dont think this is a bad thing, it just means some consumables are only useful to good players. 15:31:06 kilobyte: could have fixedart boots of running (with interesting bags of properties) 15:31:16 alefury: yes, no problem there 15:31:35 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:19 kilobyte: i think the effect is interesting, but yeah, might be better suited for a fixedart (like the lightning scales) 15:32:37 the reason no one needs to use might/agil/etc is because they have gods which solve any encounters they would need to use them for 15:32:50 some other decent boots ego should be added if running is removed, though 15:32:56 except zot:5 where everyone blows all of them 15:32:59 fixearts have an issue of being found once in 8937367 games, though 15:33:05 what are the current possible boot egos? i dont think there are a lot. 15:33:22 Running, levitation, and ... stealth...? 15:33:31 There's a third which escapes me off the top of my head. 15:33:38 I use might a fair amount on melee characters. Sometimes I save it for zot but I quaff it when fighting certain uniques 15:33:48 could add EV to the boots egos at least 15:33:53 evilmike: youre a good player :) 15:33:57 I use brilliance too, on characters that can use a temporary wizardry boost 15:34:00 i often dont use might when i should 15:34:03 because i suck 15:34:09 Yes, stealth. 15:34:17 evilmike: is Agility worth it? 15:34:19 Ok, so what are the new milestones? 15:34:21 well, I'm just saying, these items have some very good uses, so the problem is with the players :P 15:34:23 I never drink potions… 15:34:28 (mummy) 15:34:31 :P 15:34:33 dpeg: aglity is good yeah. I use it for the EV boost mainly 15:34:37 elliptic: around? 15:34:39 granted, it's not a huge boost, but it's something 15:34:50 might kicks ass in the early game... even a conjurer may be better off popping in might and using a weapon than casting 15:34:51 i have seen people claim agility is nearly as useful as might 15:34:52 greensnark: it's one for *leaving* branchs 15:34:59 greensnark: hi, I'll actually have a pull request for you in just a minute 15:35:03 greensnark: so was have banners like "did Snake in one attempt" 15:35:05 Oh neat 15:35:07 I've noticed in my sprint map, a good strategy is to buy potions of might early 15:35:15 (mostly because of 0.0000001 maxmp, compared to hordes of monsters) 15:35:17 s/was/we can/ 15:35:54 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:46 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:38:40 greensnark: pull request sent :) 15:38:43 kilobyte: imo turn boots of running into a fixedart, and add EV (fixed amount) and maybe even one more ego to the boots ego list so the slot isnt completely useless and boring without running 15:39:31 Ooh, sounds good 15:40:01 maybe relec 15:40:02 greensnark: I was originally dubious about making this milestone because it seemed like it could be pretty common, but since portal vaults and Temple won't cause it, I think it is okay 15:40:07 rubber soles, or something 15:40:11 "boots of grounding" 15:40:22 or, perhaps boots of running could be made evokable 15:40:28 evilmike: compensation for Insulation removal? :) 15:40:39 kilobyte: wouldn't that be annoying? 15:40:40 boots of evocable sprinting could be cool 15:40:41 nah. i'm all for adding more interesting egos though 15:41:03 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:06 would need a cooldown (exhaustion), but sounds neat 15:41:08 dpeg: with some penalty, like exhaustion and slowdown, afterwards 15:41:14 kilobyte: ok 15:41:25 i dont think a slowdown is necessary 15:41:42 its not berserk after all... 15:42:02 -!- BlastHardcheese is now known as Guest78395 15:42:02 makes you tired and you need to use a medpack to be able to run again 15:42:11 (rElec is simple, but it's good enough. When I think of uninteresting egos, I'm thinking of stuff like cloaks of darkness) 15:42:39 I believe we should steal some armour egos from Brogue. 15:42:44 is that an artifact, or you mean +invis? 15:42:51 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:00 <|amethyst> how about make CoD evocable for Darkness? 15:43:08 -!- andrewhl_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:23 i never used darkness, how useful is it? 15:43:34 i always meant to abuse it in a zig with firestorm, but didnt get around to it 15:43:42 <|amethyst> or is that even less interesting (but doesn't conflict with a ring, and unlike the lantern would be usable with good gods) 15:43:43 |amethyst: yes. Also need a solution for DS nightstalker. 15:43:58 should just always give it if it gives it 15:44:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: make nightstalker 3 grant perm-invis :) 15:44:19 st_: then it would suck a bit, because it hinders exploration so much 15:44:19 <|amethyst> (and remove the LOS reduction) 15:44:23 and I think it should give it, seemed like something everyone agrees with whenever it's brought up 15:44:34 alefury: but you choose to wear it 15:44:53 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:54 so you have to swap your cloak when you want darkness -.- 15:45:07 only -1 or -2 isn't going to affect exploration that much 15:45:25 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:30 you know that the area of a circle grows with r^2, right? 15:45:48 would be a pity to remove DS NS but it is cumbersome at 3 15:45:56 on an open level, -2 makes exploration much slower 15:46:15 -!- StekarDraken has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:15 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:40 -!- zoomsmebe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:44 <|amethyst> -2 means something like 44% reduction in your LOS, assuming base LOS of 8 15:46:45 nightstalker could work decently with a toggle i think 15:47:04 alefury: it's the cross-section not area what matters 15:47:05 -!- Yig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:19 it should maybe be more than a -2 to your move delay in that case 15:47:21 oh, true 15:47:25 alefury: yes, probably 15:47:29 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:49 -!- Guest78395 has quit [Changing host] 15:47:50 -!- Guest78395 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:59 -!- Guest78395 is now known as BlastHardcheese 15:48:14 I don't know why it matters that exploration is "slow" anyway 15:48:16 a toggle would kind of go against the Ds philosophy of forcing people to adapt to their mutations :/ 15:48:38 Mm, Sequell seems to be netsplit 15:48:42 Happy times on freenode it appears 15:48:43 st_: good point; only few people care about speedruns 15:48:51 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:12 slow exploration = annoying exploration in areas where you cant autoexplore 15:49:48 in areas where you dont want to autoexplore whether the reduced los is useful to your tactics is much more important than the lost time, so that doesnt matter 15:50:25 lategame abyss and labyrinths must really suck with nightstalker, though 15:51:09 right, abyss sucks with reduced LOS 15:51:48 I don't think it's so bad if people will take off a cloak to explore there though, it's not a frequent occurance 15:51:51 speedrunners often manually explore anyway, I don't think that is an issue at all... abyss is indeed a pain, but it is already 15:52:31 !lg . 15:52:32 fe_sendauth: no password supplied 15:52:38 I don't think its too much effort to switch cloaks just for abyss and labyrinth 15:52:50 greensnark: ^^ (hopefully not my pull request's fault?) 15:52:53 note that currently the item that gives darkness while equipped strongly reduces spellpower and takes your hand slot 15:53:00 <|amethyst> elliptic: http://dobrazupa.org/gretell-Use-oplace-in-the-milestone-message-when-it-is-avail.patch 15:53:04 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:14 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:38 is cloak of darkness a fixedart? if so, giving it permadarkness with no cost might be fine. as a normal ego it would definitely not be. 15:53:42 it's an ego 15:53:56 it's a ring of invisibility in cloak form, basically 15:54:16 since the cloak is competing against is preservation... 15:54:50 not strictly a *bad* item, since evokable invisiblity is useful on a lot of characters. but it doesn't really compete with resists, since you can just use a ring of invisiblity, or a randart with +invis 15:55:18 <|amethyst> elliptic: \o/ 15:55:23 <|amethyst> 16:53:11 < Sizzell> Lawman0 (L8 MfWr) entered an ossuary. (D:7) 15:55:26 st_: i think i would wear preservation if i have it, and situationally switch to darkness for difficult vaults or diving (zot, especially zot:5, slime, ...) 15:55:35 <|amethyst> or was it only on branches that it had the bug 15:55:39 |amethyst: yay! 15:56:20 evilmike: i havent found evocable invis useful on a lot of chars 15:56:34 |amethyst: no, portal vaults too 15:56:44 -!- Nerem has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:45 |amethyst: ooh, I was just thinking about how that was annoying earlier 15:56:51 thanks for fixing it! 15:56:54 i suck though, so maybe its my fault :) 15:57:05 <|amethyst> elliott: ah, then great... now we just need to make sure nothing gets oplace when it shouldn't :) 15:57:09 <|amethyst> oop 15:57:12 <|amethyst> elliptic: ^^ 15:57:33 alefury: it's very useful on stabbers who aren't using enchantments. It's also good against certain nasty enemies which can't see invisible (I'm thinking draconians, here) 15:57:51 sorry, by enchantments I mean hexes 15:58:07 i never played a stabber without the invis spell i think 15:58:13 <|amethyst> evilmike show his age :) 15:58:28 that split wasnt so long ago... 15:58:40 and its still causing trouble 15:58:42 <|amethyst> yeah, I'm fresh meat. Started in 0.8 15:59:00 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:34 My SpEn Zot clearing became much easier when I realised draconians could not see invisible. :b 15:59:53 I've never gotten that far as SpEn, they're just too fragile 15:59:54 try fly+invis in shoals, almost as much fun 16:00:31 !lg MuSu 16:00:31 there are maybe 2 monsters or so in shoals that see invis 16:00:31 fe_sendauth: no password supplied 16:00:33 its ridiculous 16:00:35 anway, invis is one of the strongest powers in the game. Even on non-stabbers I've gotten use out of it (something I didn't start trying until somewhat lately) 16:00:38 !lg * MuSu 16:00:38 fe_sendauth: no password supplied 16:00:40 <|amethyst> hm 16:00:59 <|amethyst> greensnark: doing something? 16:01:22 huh 16:01:24 evilmike: i think something that is not obvious at all and a bit problematic is the to hit penalty if you are invis but cant see invis 16:01:39 that's a pretty dumb penalty 16:01:44 evilmike: Brent Ross kept saying that invisibility is very strong and players always underestimate it. 16:01:46 removing that would make it useful to a much broader range of builds 16:02:03 I don't think the penalty has a huge effect, it's just unintuitive 16:02:20 |amethyst: it looks like he switched IRC hostnames and that messed something up: https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/commit/822608837f0e9c464d71c2f38f25aa6ddb5948ea 16:02:22 well, it basically prevents using potion of invis as a potion of agility 16:02:47 |amethyst: didn't elliptic revert a commit of mine doing that? You two may want to discuss it. 16:02:53 Anyways, still tossing the siege crossbow idea in my head, but I feel that it shouldn't be brought back up until the ranged combat overhaul 16:03:12 ba39a949 16:03:16 Do we get to add the Piecemaker in as an unrandart? 16:03:19 -!- Kheldar has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:21 Sure. 16:03:28 kilobyte: your commit did that but messed up lots of other stuff, so I reverted it in favour of fixing gretell to handle it correctly (henzell already did) 16:03:37 Grunt: clockworkdemon 16:03:54 :D 16:03:55 I just didn't remember to actually figure out how fix gretell to handle it until now (it was a 1-line change) 16:04:09 Grunt: has a mechanical hand ballista instead of one arm, always shoots three turns in a row 16:04:36 Oh god I even get the reference 16:04:38 that sounds like it might make an interesting unique 16:04:45 i dont get the reference, sadly 16:04:49 Doom. 16:05:06 i didnt read every book by pratchett :( 16:05:16 alefury: wouldn't help here :) 16:05:21 aww 16:05:36 Only fires exploding ammunition, of course. 16:06:10 * Lightli starts playing DOOM music 16:06:22 oh, that doom? 16:06:26 haha 16:07:08 clockwork demon's aren't from doom. shooting three times in a row is something the mancubus does, but it shoots fireballs 16:07:18 Actually, close 16:07:22 Clockwork in lieu of something else. 16:07:24 Think carefully. 16:07:49 <|amethyst> like the monster from ZAngband? 16:07:59 Yup-wait what 16:08:29 all of you should play planescape: torment instead and then make references to that :/ 16:08:35 we would all be so much better off that way 16:08:45 if we want to copy doom we should add archviles with a delayed hellfire attack. it starts casting and you have 3 turns to break LOS before it explodes you 16:08:45 * Grunt talks alefury out of existence. 16:08:48 :) 16:08:53 <|amethyst> I've played Planescape, does that count? 16:08:56 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:57 ^We already have imps and cacodemons 16:09:04 And hell knights! 16:09:08 <|amethyst> And Pandemonium :) 16:09:15 |amethyst: maybe? if it was super weird and really fun i guess it counts. 16:09:24 and while we're at it, add "Hisssssss" as part of the cacodemon's speech 16:09:29 Yes. 16:09:30 <|amethyst> alefury: it's the D&D setting that the game was based on 16:09:33 i know that 16:09:40 * kilobyte moves shotgun targetting a bit forward on the TODO list :p 16:09:48 evilmike: we also need them to throw lightning balls :b 16:10:10 |amethyst: the game is seriously really really good, but only if you like reading 16:10:14 Can we get crimson imps to throw puffs of flame? :D 16:10:27 probably worth checking out even now 16:10:28 ^That would be one hell of a buff to them to be honest. 16:10:38 Grunt: that would probably require changing them a bit 16:10:47 (I'm not seriously proposing this, for the record.) 16:10:49 either moving them later in the dungeon, or seriously cutting their defenses 16:10:53 <|amethyst> that would buff the spell 16:11:02 i think imps are fine where they are 16:11:37 good old imp with a bow, so much fun :) 16:11:40 -!- Yig_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:11:54 Can they at least get arrows of flame? :b 16:11:56 DoomRL-like plasma gun would make a cool rod and/or spell... 16:12:24 kilobyte: just make sure it's obscene loud... 16:12:30 obscenely 16:12:41 ^I can't wait to kill Cerebov with it! 16:12:42 and obscures most of your vision 16:14:17 fr: replace the rod of striking with this hypothetical spell 16:14:39 FR: rename exec axe to BFA 16:14:44 lol 16:14:57 ^Because I already don't use any other weapon types :P 16:15:47 More seriously, why not make the Rod of Striking scale with Evocations skill? 16:16:05 Lightli: already done 16:16:12 Oh. 16:16:18 How powerful is it at max power? 16:16:21 after it has already been removed from artificers, though 16:16:24 (er, 27 evocations) 16:16:35 I know it's 1d8 normally 16:17:32 unknown monster: "git 46f04b1e" 16:17:32 %??git 46f04b1e 16:17:52 wat 16:17:58 <|amethyst> %git 46f04b1e 16:18:33 |amethyst * 0.11-a0-801-g46f04b1: Make morningstars etc primarily crushing, not piercing. (5 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/46f04b1e5259 16:18:33 fr gnus 16:18:33 |amethyst: thanks 16:18:33 Don't we already have a Linux version of Crawl? 16:18:51 %git 64e714e5 16:18:52 kilobyte * 0.11-a0-806-g64e714e: Increase rod of striking damage with power, up to 1d18 at power 50. (5 months ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/64e714e54be2 16:19:19 1d8 at zero power 16:19:24 1d18 at max? 16:19:36 That...still sucks 16:19:37 still not earth-shattering 16:19:58 if someone comes up with a good idea for a new rod, it should just replace rods of striking 16:20:25 <|amethyst> it would be nice if artificers started with a rod of some kind 16:20:39 current artificers are pretty good though 16:20:49 <|amethyst> could start it at 1 MP so they're on a quest for recharging scrolls 16:20:51 starting with several wands is interesting 16:20:57 <|amethyst> true 16:21:28 I'm also thinking back to old artificers, where the rod option was the worst one... so my opinion is tainted by that 16:21:39 they're mostly weak-ass warriors who happened to pick up two wands in the first room, though 16:22:03 <|amethyst> I was thinking something with multiple spells, but starting with enough MMP to do only one of them 16:22:07 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:13 <|amethyst> that way there's some room for growth 16:22:34 the wands last you a few fights but are nothing to build a character around 16:22:38 <|amethyst> OTOH it scales character progression with random loot so probably not 16:22:40 Why don't we have rods with spells greater than level 5? 16:22:48 I mean 6 16:23:13 Lightli: bigger spells are problematic because you can use them right from D:1 16:23:16 6 already verges on being too powerful. high level spells are out of the question 16:24:17 -!- atrodo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2-rdmsoft [XULRunner 12.0/20120420145725]] 16:24:45 True. I think we could get away with one of the weaker level 7 spells like IOOD or something. 16:25:42 I'd give rods a fail chance 16:25:44 new rods should be single-spell and have unique spells, imo 16:26:00 rod of invoke xom 16:26:21 to not change things too much, we could make it easy to get the evoke chance to 100% 16:26:47 Rod of Fire Storm, if only to get the obvious one out of the way 16:27:09 kilobyte: thats a good idea I think. Especially for certain spells which don't scale for power much 16:27:13 evilmike: I kind of fail to see why single-spell rods would be better. Unique spells, of course. 16:27:24 you'll actually encourage players to train evoc to cast freezing cloud or dmsl from a rod 16:28:08 yes 16:28:11 kilobyte: oh, it's just an ease of use thing. Simpy cast 'v' to evoke the spell, rather than 'v' and the spell's letter. Also, several rods tend to have a "best" spell 16:28:22 so the other spells are just dead weight and don't do much besides add keystrokes 16:28:22 -!- Lawman_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:28:27 <|amethyst> but the tension on rod mp is good 16:28:32 if the idea of giving Vehumet special spells fails, there's quite a few ideas on the wiki page 16:28:36 evilmike: yes, that's a good point 16:28:51 <|amethyst> if there were actually choice to be had, true 16:28:59 <|amethyst> s/choice/choices/ 16:29:01 wasnt someone working on veh spell gifting again? 16:29:08 at some point? 16:29:13 I think that fell off the face of the Earth 16:29:16 whats left to do? 16:29:24 <|amethyst> MarvinPA set up a branch 16:29:32 alefury: Thasero said he *had* a patch but I don't think we got it. 16:29:40 nono, not thasero 16:29:40 evilmike: not really, I tend to pick spells that add up to the rod's capacity, or ones that fit the current situation the best 16:29:42 someone else picked it up 16:29:45 (ie, fireball/bolt) 16:29:58 alefury: ah 16:30:44 since a+0 rod with low Evoc is unlikely to regen enough mp until you need to switch back to a weapon 16:30:44 Wait, Fire Storm costs 9 MP 16:31:11 Max capacity for rods is 17 16:32:05 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:32:06 Only 2 shots per full charge, with hefty time delay between the two 16:32:40 still lets you start (or finish) any battle with a firestorm 16:32:52 True. 16:33:05 Lightli: it's a terrible idea and if you don't understand why, I don't know what to say. Don't bother suggesting this, it's not going to happen 16:33:27 ^To be honest, yeah I can see why it's a horrible idea. 16:33:42 Letting Trog-worshippers effectively cast Level 9 spells is probably OP 16:33:57 Lightli: nothing to do with Trog 16:34:20 well, the hunger cost of a level 9 spell on a rod might be high enough to actually matter 16:34:27 still a horrible idea, though 16:34:46 it's a spell that requires 3 skills at near-max, or high int, and often wizardry. except you just need some evoc skill 16:35:00 Yeah, that too. 16:35:01 nuff said 16:35:15 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:31 I've gotten it castable ONCE by the end of Lair, and that required a staff of wizardry and pushing nothing but Fire Magic and Conjurations 16:35:33 -!- NeremWorld has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:27 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 16:37:50 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:39:26 Wait, how powerful is the rod of lightning at max power? 16:40:36 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 16:42:53 MarvinPA should know :) 16:45:45 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:45:46 -!- Pthing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:12 a character with über randarts on every slot and all skills maxed isn't too telling a test 16:47:40 -!- CannibalFerox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:48:48 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: yes] 16:49:23 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:51:55 -!- Eji has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:25 -!- aleksil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:52 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:09 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:10:19 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:17:05 -!- miszobi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:26 -!- dingir has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:19:04 Oh, Sequell 17:19:15 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:08 -!- yxhvuud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:22 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:30 !lg * 17:21:38 1764893. Aether the Chopper (L5 MiBe), worshipper of Trog, slain by a gnoll (a +0,+0 whip) in D:3 on 2012-08-22, with 227 points after 1594 turns and 0:03:14. 17:22:26 huzzah 17:22:41 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:24:38 \o/ 17:26:09 greensnark: you left us deeply troubled. 17:26:14 But now the sun is shining again. 17:26:31 :P 17:27:53 greensnark: would you believe that I (together with nicolae) came up with a spider god concept but it was considered inappropriate -- definitely not politically correct. jpeg said I am doing this on purpose: one controversy each year, for advertisement reasons. 17:28:07 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:11 Politically correct? 17:28:20 don't you say so? 17:28:23 greensnark: thanks! 17:28:39 It involved mating. 17:29:21 Oh 17:29:32 NSFC ? 17:29:42 politically incorrect? Then it looks like I must have missed it somehow... 17:29:55 not safe for crawl :P 17:30:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 17:30:09 hehe 17:30:18 elliptic: I just fixed something I broke :) 17:30:37 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:37 What better way to gain popularity than a sound XXX rating? 17:31:31 kilobyte: there was a claim the god supports rape ... but it's a quite farfetched proposition, in my opinion. Reactions went both ways, so it wasn't clearcut. 17:32:44 if there's just a far fetched interpretation, I don't think that's out of question 17:32:54 -!- Yen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:37 (I don't remember anything of this kind in what I've read, and I read all changes from Mantis and the Wiki...) 17:34:42 kilobyte: it is a proposal on the forum (the contentious part is this: at ****** piety you can mate with your god; after that, you can mate with spiders; furthermore, humanoids may be arachnophobic and run away etc.; occasionally, the god will turn an arachnophobic god into a spider). 17:34:58 So you could be mating Boris the spider. 17:35:34 And of course Boris does not get asked. Still, it is spider on spider. (Of course, the other partner is consumed after the act -- we used every spider cliche available :) 17:37:37 I personally don't see anything wrong there, but considering how a good part of the society sees anything even remotely related to sex, it might be indeed risky 17:37:43 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:49 what would be the results of such mating? 17:37:53 perhaps we should just make the spider god not available in the US 17:37:55 -!- nago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:58 :p 17:38:00 hp regain? 17:38:15 if you eat your partner that is 17:38:27 kilobyte: (a) the other spider dies, (b) you are exhausted, (c) you carry spiderlets, to be used for a god power (spider swarm) 17:39:07 also, it'd be a nice way to allow the extended endgame as all humanoids (this includes demons) can be arachnophobic 17:39:23 this isn't really an american thing, or anything related to sex. people just dont want a god ability that reminds them of rape 17:39:46 then perhaps we could castrate the theme of this proposal, and talk about seeding the corpse only 17:39:46 I had this idea about humanoids --> spider as "the nightmare after the nightmare" (of course, the mating after it tops is once more) 17:39:50 and I totally agree with that. That's a line we shouldn't cross, or even get close to 17:40:16 ie, as a kind of a cocoon 17:40:26 evilmike: I think there is a difference. French are notably more relaxed about sexuality, for example. 17:40:51 dpeg: the problem here is rape, not sexuality. If you don't know what the difference is, I'm sorry (and pretty offended) 17:41:16 (you could see this in the Strauss-Kahn case very well) 17:41:36 ^ 17:42:02 I think you can still have the spider god idea without the negative aspects of it. For instance, you can lay eggs and then after x number of turns, you can have the spider swarm ability 17:42:12 jpeg suggested to just exclude uniques from the transformation, that'd probably solve the issues. 17:42:31 link_108: but then you lose the ability to feed in the foodless branches 17:43:44 dpeg: what exactly do you mean? feed ability? 17:44:13 link_108: spiders don't eat permafood (they have very interesting digestional behaviour), so they need corpses -- or spiders to mate with. 17:44:25 what if the ability was "Inject Eggs", and you merely struggle with the victim, with no relations to sex (so Americans are happy) 17:44:46 kilobyte: sure, but so sad to throw the black widow reference. 17:45:12 -!- Steampun1Duck is now known as SteampunkDuck 17:45:21 It is a spider archetype, along with tarantella poison, the arachnophobia and little spider swarming a place. 17:45:33 +out 17:47:35 It's just a niche god proposal, so nothing really serious, but I'd like to have an Implementable with the strongest possible flavour. Personally, I'd rather lose the frightened humanoid --> spider transformation (rather than the mating among spiders), even if means impossible endgame. 17:48:07 demonic spiders? 17:48:13 or that :) 17:48:16 harder to do something with undead, though 17:48:29 But not sure one should add monsters for a miniscule god. 17:48:42 Arachne 17:48:45 Anyway, this god will probably never come (although some comments were actually enthusiastic on the forum). 17:48:59 kilobyte: Arachne is a problem, as nicolae pointed out: spider or humanoid? 17:49:28 both :p 17:49:53 She should get arachnophobia resistence at least :) 17:51:57 elliptic * 0.12-a0-185-g49588e8: Add a milestone for the first time each branch is exited. (3 hours ago, 13 files, 49+ 11-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/49588e8b9b1c 17:51:59 elliptic [stone_soup-0.11] * 0.11-b1-57-g348d7df: Add a milestone for the first time each branch is exited. (3 hours ago, 13 files, 49+ 11-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/348d7df6120a 17:52:02 where is the spider god discussion? can't find it under the brainstorm:god:brainstorm namespace 17:52:02 btw, the bit about burying eggs in corpses is also interesting, but befits wasps better (needless to say, there's a wasp god proposal on the wiki) 17:52:02 link_108: forum 17:52:02 thanks 17:52:23 cannot link in here, on second page 17:52:34 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:52:45 found it, thanks! 17:53:53 I'm really interested in comments, not just (but also) the problematic bits. 17:54:10 -!- link_108 has left ##crawl-dev 17:54:19 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:29 elliptic: so is this good to use for 0.11 tournament? 17:54:44 I'll take a closer look at it and leave some feedback later (at work right now) 17:54:54 dpeg: hopefully it is good since I just pushed it to 0.11 :) 17:55:31 link_108: thx! 17:55:42 elliptic: thank you so much! Is it clear what banner to replace it with? 17:55:50 -!- sanka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:43 my plan is to replace the sif banner... the flavour isn't perfect but I think something like "The Prepared" should work 17:57:01 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:57:31 what is Sif currently asking for? 17:58:11 get 1000 gold without spending any / spendingless win / spendingless atheist win 17:58:25 ah, the new ones's much better, yes 17:58:26 that's a weird challenge 17:58:51 Certainly a conduct, but not a fun one, imo. 17:59:07 Better to have challenges that can actually kill you. 18:01:53 spendingless atheist win sounds cool 18:02:12 someone institute blindness so we can have zen conduct please 18:02:14 8] 18:02:24 Pacra++ 18:02:32 you could edit your options to make everything black 18:02:39 I made an account on one of the servers like that 18:02:45 oh weh 18:02:46 no, then you still know what's attacking you, etc. 18:02:55 it's just not the same! 18:03:00 well, blindness is different to non-mapping 18:03:02 ah. so mute all the messages then 18:03:09 don't mute them 18:03:14 you can still feel things happening 18:03:22 i'm talking nethack style zen conduct 18:03:27 and hear 18:03:34 is that the one where you have to startscum for a blindfold? 18:03:37 yes 18:03:43 and keep it on all game except to read book of the dead 18:03:45 as a samurai or something 18:03:46 I hope Crawl has better challenges to offer than that. 18:04:18 like winning 18:04:20 you have no sense of humor :[ 18:04:21 ;) 18:04:46 i actually think blindness is pretty cool, but 18:05:17 I can't see why 18:05:24 (/rimshot) 18:05:25 groan 18:06:24 * dpeg gives Zannick a medal for superior punning. 18:06:46 \o/ 18:09:58 nemelex saccing in zigsptint gives WAY less gifts now 18:10:00 what changed? 18:12:36 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:23 -!- Chozo has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 4.0b12pre/20110203165105]] 18:13:49 -!- blackcus1ard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:19 -!- blackcus2ard is now known as blackcustard 18:16:29 -!- blackcustard has quit [Changing host] 18:19:42 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:21:31 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:52 -!- erisdiscordia has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:24:13 -!- RollieTG has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:25:25 -!- nago_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:42 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:42 -!- LoremIpsum_ is now known as LoremIpsum 18:28:53 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 18:29:45 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:15 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:42 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:31 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:49 -!- Kyrris has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:06 -!- Gastrox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:42:31 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:25 HYPERIMGAY (L27 DgCj) ASSERT(you.can_pass_through_feat(grd(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 433 failed. (Abyss) 18:52:09 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:07 <|amethyst> something to do with abyss player pushing? 18:57:48 -!- Adeon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:57 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: link_108] 19:01:21 -!- morduin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:58 'hyperimgay' 19:03:31 yes, welcome to the internet 19:03:31 i am still offended by the player with account name 'niggergoku420' 19:04:00 -!- PollyEsther has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:29 me too 19:04:41 Is it a special reference to something? 19:05:18 A bit surprising that something with nick HYPERIMGAY can get a Dg to L27. 19:09:58 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:01 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:22 -!- BlackSheep has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:41 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:20:52 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:21:23 -!- RollieTG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:59 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:52 -!- lorenz371 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:32:53 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:33:32 Anti-magic effect continues after pain-branding, save-and-quit-and-restart fixes it (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6107) by tensorpudding 19:41:16 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:23 dpeg: well, at least its hyper. people use that to mark accounts that only play random chars. 19:50:32 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 19:53:01 alefury: ah, I didn't know that. 19:53:21 But nobody took offence on the "hyper" anyway :) 19:53:50 -!- BlackSheep has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:52 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:08 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:06 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:05:35 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:30 HYPERIMGAY (L27 DgCj) ASSERT(you.can_pass_through_feat(grd(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 433 failed. (Abyss) 20:12:45 I think I just found a bug of my own... 20:12:48 * Grunt goes to investigate. 20:13:01 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:13:24 -!- fooobaar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:27 * Grunt fails to reproduce it. 20:15:20 -!- myp has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:31 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:18:06 -!- PollyEsther_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:08 !abyss grunt 20:20:09 Wensley casts a spell. grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:20:39 this is how lugonu rewards failure 20:20:45 also, success 20:21:34 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:48 at least you know where you are with lugonu 20:21:50 (it's in the abyss) 20:22:43 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:37 I'm going to rewire wenzell to automatically abyss anyone who pushes to the crawl repo 20:24:53 you are a dangerous man, Wensley 20:25:01 I live dangerously 20:28:39 heh, I think napkin put up a static snapshot of http://crawl.develz.org/cgi-bin/web-status/index.html 20:28:57 so my player status page still seems to think there are webtiles games on cdo ongoing 20:30:35 SGrunt (L19 CeHu) ERROR in 'tags.cc' at line 2438: Invalid item: (quantity: 0) chunk of sheep flesh (D:20) 20:30:41 o_O 20:30:54 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:31:13 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:18 !lm . crash 20:32:19 3. [2012-08-23] SGrunt the Crack Shot (L19 CeHu) ERROR in 'tags.cc' at line 2438: Invalid item: (quantity: 0) chunk of sheep flesh (D:20) 20:32:21 !lm . crash -log 20:32:22 3. SGrunt, XL19 CeHu, T:51784 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/SGrunt/crash-SGrunt-20120823-012858.txt 20:32:44 OH 20:33:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:36 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 20:37:25 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:04 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:38:20 -!- domi is now known as domi_ 20:39:04 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:14 -!- domi_ has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:31 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:44:53 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 20:46:04 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:48:07 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:51 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:55:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:02 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:00:06 -!- Fhqwhgads_ is now known as Fhqwhgads 21:01:17 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:01:27 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:01 Grunt * 0.12-a0-186-g39adf9e: Fix invalid item state after monster casts Simulacrum. (4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/39adf9e98f76 21:05:13 Grunt: well done 21:05:35 !abyss grunt 21:05:36 Wensley casts a spell. grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:06:59 Wenzell: so the abyss is both stick and carrot? I like! 21:08:22 -!- pelotron has quit [Quit: ~Internet()] 21:08:47 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:01 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:04 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:15 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:34 elliptic: a sure-fire rule would be: streaks are assumed to take place on the same server, unless you announce (after a win, before starting another game) that you'll take server Foo now. 21:24:02 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:24:09 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:24 announcement would be on top of the init file, as with teams 21:24:55 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:26:02 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:00 was there a problem with the old rule? (which I think was, the game start time has to be after the previous one ended) 21:27:00 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:27:38 evilmike: the main issue is detecting games that were started and then saved at XL 1 or something 21:27:40 before any milestone 21:28:11 there are some other minor issues too, actually, but that's the simplest hole in current rules 21:31:30 elliptic: Turn 1 milestone seems simple enough to me. But only necessary when scumming comes up, perhaps. 21:32:42 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:56 turn 10 milestone would be better to deal with accidentally started games, but I'm still not really sold on the idea 21:33:23 just relying on some honor code for streaks seems fine in practice 21:36:11 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:03 -!- clinew_ is now known as clinew 21:43:44 -!- fooobaar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:53 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: bonghitz] 21:47:34 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:47 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:00 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 21:55:47 -!- Stelpa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:57 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 21:56:20 <|amethyst> what about CDO console vs CDO tiles? 21:56:58 <|amethyst> nm, hadn't scrolled down enough 21:58:29 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 22:00:32 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:23 -!- Crayth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:39 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:02:08 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: SurpriseTRex] 22:09:11 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:29 so what's with the apts being colored white now in the skill screen? 22:09:58 <|amethyst> %git e60bed8 22:09:58 argonaut * 0.12-a0-158-ge60bed8: New skill menu colors (#4399). (1 year ago, 2 files, 13+ 12-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/e60bed848498 22:10:04 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:10 <|amethyst> the commit message gives reasons 22:12:29 ah, not in 0.11, good... I'd vote for lightgrey as opposed to white 22:13:50 the white makes the apts really stand out and be the most prominent things on the screen, whereas they are actually one of the least important things there 22:13:53 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:11 also, "magenta is worse than red" isn't exactly true... most things in crawl use lightred and red. magenta often means "dangerous" but not strictly bad 22:14:11 evilmike: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:16:48 yes, magenta is better than red for items 22:22:39 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 22:24:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:35:14 joke fr: give Cerebov HD:25 22:36:18 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:39 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:50 -!- rzimodnar has quit [Quit: I'm sure someone can find a way] 22:46:50 Ok, got some ideas going 22:47:36 Zot vault that has orbs of fire in grate cages. 22:51:47 Hell stair vault that has Hell Sentinels patrolling outside 22:52:23 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:07 -!- CampinSam has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:41 -!- Sabaki has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:56:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:25 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:30 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:38 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:16 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:39 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:43 -!- Turgor has quit [] 23:16:44 -!- Rewans has quit [] 23:17:25 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 23:19:44 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye] 23:24:08 -!- ebarrett has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:15 <|amethyst> !tell dpeg re the spider thing, rather than making uniques unspiderifiable, what about simply not preserving their names? Without "You mate with Sigmund" etc I don't think the controversy would be there 23:31:15 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 23:31:37 aaahahahaha 23:31:45 Wenzell: you will not deliver that message 23:32:01 we must all devour sigmund 23:32:21 <|amethyst> devouring is fine 23:32:29 that's all that mating is! 23:32:43 |amethyst: I get the feeling that you have never mated before :I 23:33:20 <|amethyst> Not with a spider, no 23:33:46 let me tell you: you're missing out 23:34:28 just pop them right in your mouth 23:34:41 days later, spiders sprout from your mouth and ears 23:34:59 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:59 the glorious miracle of creation 23:35:37 except they don't so much sprout as they erupt 23:35:39 violently 23:36:25 propelling a stream of infinitesimal spiders up to fifteen feet through the air 23:38:14 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:22 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:48 -!- elliott has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:39:53 |amethyst: what I am saying is, it is a magical experience and I highly recommend it 23:40:18 <|amethyst> I'll bring it up with my wife 23:41:11 this could be a really awesome alternative to those erectile dysfunction ads 23:42:01 "looking for something to rejuvenate your love life? why not try ingesting spiders" 23:42:38 <|amethyst> Chinese traditional medicine? 23:44:13 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44:21 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:26 this one's a Wensley Original 23:45:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:00 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 23:46:38 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:23 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Doomseeker End Of Line] 23:50:56 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:46 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: Bye]