00:00:24 oh, so there is a player fear effect already? 00:00:37 Eidolons and Giant Orange Brains use it, and have for ages 00:00:39 Yes. 00:00:49 ah, i must never have encountered it 00:00:59 or just don't remember 00:01:00 (Though the brains very rarely seem to actually cast it) 00:01:01 Eidolons and giant orange brains are rather rare enemies, so. 00:01:13 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-96-g68d2098 (33) 00:01:16 And eidolons are primarily vault monsters, yes 00:01:24 The (apprentice) enchanters in grunt_magic_academy have cause fear as a spell. 00:01:52 Actually, I think only the non-apprentice enchanter does; it's the arcane marksmen that all have it. 00:02:19 I remember playing Yred back in the narrow window of 0.8 trunk where he gifted eidolons 00:02:26 So much black screen flashing.... 00:02:45 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Quit: bye] 00:07:17 -!- jeremie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:07:27 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-96-g68d2098 00:10:03 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:38 Wait, why do trishulas and sacred scourges not have their delay dropped by 1 like eudemon blades compared to their demonic counterparts? 00:14:48 because they aren't long blades 00:14:59 for some reason TSO likes long blades best 00:15:35 TSO has a long blade fetish? 00:15:45 brb getting brain bleech 00:15:56 *bleach 00:16:17 tso accepts followers from all slices of life 00:16:38 Except undead. 00:16:47 i said life 00:16:52 And people who cast necromancy spells 00:17:07 (And god help you if you cast Necromutation) 00:17:12 (Another god help you, to be percise) 00:18:20 It makes no sense when you look at the high-end stuff. Most of the ultra high-level nencromancy spells don't actually focus on killing people, they focus on keeping the user alive 00:18:57 Necromancy is the magic of life and death. 00:19:04 Sure, you can make a case that Vampiric Draining is wrong, and Necromutation is out by principle, but regeneration? Revification? Death's Door? 00:19:35 people bring this up sometimes 00:19:41 Borg's is powered by vile energy. :b 00:19:50 this is just how crawl necromancy works. it is how the game is designed 00:19:54 Just ask the monsters that will be casting it in the future. 00:19:55 <|amethyst> TSO doesn't care if you hack a human to bits with a sword, but use bug spray on a spider? 00:20:04 -!- andrewhl has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:13 Conclusion: The good gods aren't all that good. 00:20:23 so long as the human knows he's being hacked to bits 00:20:34 you are the very first person to figure this out, excellent job 00:20:51 Ely praises peace and yet lets her followers go on waton killing sprees. 00:21:27 Zin hates mutations and yet will let even the most misshapen abomination enter his worship. 00:21:41 we know, Lightli, ok 00:21:49 ...You get the point. 00:22:04 good and evil are just labels, really 00:22:14 Outside of Beogh. 00:22:15 we could switch them if it weren't so much work 00:22:26 (and if they weren't entrenched in people's minds) 00:22:37 ((which may fall into the "too much work" i mentioned) 00:22:38 ) 00:22:48 The holy trinity of Makhleb, Yred, and Kiku? 00:23:30 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Client Quit] 00:23:36 There would also be the unholy trinity of TSO, Ely, and Zin, and the chaos trinity of Makhleb (again), Lugonu, and Xom. 00:23:41 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:49 ...rhis is still a stupid idea 00:31:41 ...why is Vaults going to be cut to 5 floors? 00:32:28 -!- evilmike has quit [] 00:32:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 00:34:36 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:34:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:41:18 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:15 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:36 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:57:32 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:59 -!- Tenaya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:01:15 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:21 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:40 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:07:39 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:38 Fixed centaur's legs. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6084) by white_noise 01:11:33 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:11:43 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:18 Anyone here have what's planned for .12? 01:19:27 -!- aleksil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:52 new features, balance adjustments, bugfixes, code cleanup, race and/or class removal 01:21:00 the usual stuff 01:21:04 ;) 01:21:24 I mean a more broad list 01:21:32 oh 01:21:33 commits 01:21:43 commits are planned for .12 01:21:47 maybe some merges 01:22:01 Uh, this is what I get for saying the wrong thing 01:22:08 More specific list then 01:22:11 no, this is me being a smartass ;) 01:22:16 oh 01:25:08 -!- Nexos is now known as fdel 01:25:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:57 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:32 -!- KaminaSquirtle has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:46 -!- Lightli has quit [] 01:53:08 -!- fdel has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:55:02 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:33 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:45 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 02:15:50 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:44 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 02:43:37 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:37 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:06 -!- Elynae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:08 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:01:26 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:16:18 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: g'night!] 03:19:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:22:37 -!- ac13_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:15 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:54 -!- newbie|2 has quit [Client Quit] 03:34:42 -!- mivue has quit [Quit: mivue] 03:39:22 -!- rzimodnar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:02 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:36 -!- mthomson is now known as Elynae 03:51:53 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:45 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:25 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:01:34 -!- casmith790 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:40 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05:21 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:05:34 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:47 -!- sbluen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 04:18:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:19:22 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:34:45 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:00 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:05 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:51 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:12 -!- CedorDark has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:04 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.12-a0-96-g68d2098 05:08:36 -!- CaptainPickles has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:10:12 -!- DracoOmega has quit [] 05:10:43 -!- casmith790 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:12 -!- casmith790 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:02 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: nipaa~] 05:19:40 -!- Domiano has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:17 -!- Silurio has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:34:27 -!- Serfuzz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:28 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:07 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:59:00 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:36 -!- white_noise has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:05:11 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:14:57 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:49 -!- domi_ has quit [Quit: さようなら] 06:32:16 -!- fernandotakai has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:31 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:42:22 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 06:42:48 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: ThrashIRC v2.6 sic populo comunicated] 06:58:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:58:45 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:59:22 Stable (0.11) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.11-b1-16-g757ec1d 06:59:43 03edlothiol * r898aea88d0d0 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/cell_renderer.js: Fix rendering of inept/ravenous mimics in webtiles. 06:59:45 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.11 * r757ec1dccfee 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/cell_renderer.js: Fix rendering of inept/ravenous mimics in webtiles. 06:59:54 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-97-g898aea8 (33) 07:00:55 huh... co updates faster than the commit appears 07:01:57 <|amethyst> I use ccache 07:02:13 <|amethyst> so nothing actually needed recompiled 07:03:15 <|amethyst> also, you timed it perfectly 07:04:25 <|amethyst> still, it's a little surprising to see the 0.11 branch take only 13 seconds, since that includes building the tilesheets and linking 07:13:25 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:03 |amethyst: looks like there's new ghost games :( 07:19:20 as always, can I take a look at the logs? 07:30:42 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:30 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:36:53 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:37:47 <|amethyst> edlothiol: holy crap 07:38:06 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/meta/tmp.log 07:38:11 <|amethyst> it's full of stuff :( 07:38:30 <|amethyst> starting with too many open files 07:38:53 you can increase the maximum number of open files with some /proc file I think 07:39:11 |amethyst: what does lsof say? 07:39:26 <|amethyst> I don't remember, does "Too many open files" mean EMFILE or ENFILE ? 07:40:25 <|amethyst> 951 open files in /tmp (all deleted) 07:40:58 EMFILE 07:41:04 hmm 07:41:20 <|amethyst> 947 of which belong to python server.py 07:41:26 <|amethyst> so, yeah, EMFILE 07:42:36 I assume their names are starting with crawl? 07:43:52 ugh, server sockets are not getting closed for games started from DGL 07:44:34 <|amethyst> ah, yeah, they are sockets 07:44:55 Webtiles server stopped. 07:45:50 testing fix 07:46:04 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:04 -!- HellTiger has quit [Client Quit] 07:49:05 |amethyst: pushed 07:49:57 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:12 03edlothiol * r12aa9f805d8d 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/process_handler.py: Webtiles: Fix the server socket not getting closed for games found via watch_socket_dirs. 07:51:08 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-98-g12aa9f8 (33) 07:51:47 Webtiles server stopped. 07:53:33 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:05 Webtiles server started. 07:56:08 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:56:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape) 07:58:10 <|amethyst> edlothiol: thanks... I'm out for a while 07:58:20 <|amethyst> edlothiol: remind me and I'll give you an account :) 07:58:59 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:04 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:08 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:00 Cosmetic flags appearing on non-cursed/branded weapons. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6085) by MaXimillion 08:20:33 -!- RollieTG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:01 -!- Fear has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:51 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 08:36:48 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:31 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:54 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 09:00:25 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:29 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 09:31:50 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:34:49 -!- johnny0_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:38:34 -!- frogbotherer has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:36 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:36 -!- Sab0t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:40 -!- VengefulCarrot has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:43:43 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:05 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:34 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:29 -!- Yen has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:05 -!- dg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:56 -!- dg_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:09 -!- VideoGames has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:03:08 -!- MPR has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:06 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:07 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:07:56 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:39 -!- casmith790 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:12:08 -!- Sorbius has quit [Client Quit] 10:12:58 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:15:28 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:56 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:53 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:08 -!- smeea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:07 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:32 -!- mthomson is now known as Elynae 10:45:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:34 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:34 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 10:57:22 -!- nooodl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:49 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:02 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:08 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:09 -!- Fhqwhgads has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:45 layout_bigger_room cuts off parts of primary vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6086) by Claws 11:16:24 actually, I just had layout_chaotic_city also cut out walls 11:20:08 -!- dingir has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:20:28 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:10 -!- absolute1o is now known as absolutego_ 11:22:57 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:59 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:24:13 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:28 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:26:05 http://pastebin.com/RC7wnyU4 and http://pastebin.com/3qM2eYDj look like wonderful snake:5 layouts 11:29:37 HangedMan: that second one is awesome 11:30:37 quite 11:36:21 HangedMan: attach those to the bug report 11:36:59 then I can add it to epic_bugs 11:37:34 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:43 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:58 no way is that an epic_bug 11:50:42 does it need somebody dying to one of these broken vaults to count 11:50:54 Seems like we need to think about what layouts are appropriate where. :b 11:51:00 03Grunt * re5e6dc246739 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Don't let layout_bigger_room overwrite vaults. 11:51:08 nah. this just isn't *that* interesting. I mean, compare it to uber octopodes 11:51:29 fair enough 11:51:37 Or forced Xom worship, or reaching for everything. 11:51:43 Grunt: well, Snake could lose open layouts like bigger room and city levels 11:52:00 but city levels probably make a bit of sense 11:52:11 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:52:18 I dunno, I just imagine a snake pit as having more tunnels 11:52:25 octagon and cross levels look really, really weird with most branch ends 11:52:26 layout_delve! 11:53:01 a variant of layout_delve might be appropriate. I'd keep layout_delve itself unique to Spider, though 11:54:20 (an example of a variant of it would be the twisted cavern layout) 11:55:05 also i agree about octagon levels, etc. Maybe those styles of levels should be excluded from having primary vaults 11:56:33 they're all "open" type I think 11:57:24 I can't really check for layout types until after the layout is starting to be generated. 11:57:34 hooray, I've duplicated the "never-visit-lair:8-again" "frog pond replacing the center of forbidden_donut" 11:58:35 There are a handful of cases where endings might work really well with open-type layouts. 11:58:53 I think due_jungle_book looks great with bigger_room, but that might just be me <_< 11:59:47 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-99-ge5e6dc2 (33) 12:01:44 putting vaults in the middle of forbidden donut is also neat when it works 12:01:52 could just tag given branch ends with appropiate layouts but I think there's a serial vault that shows that such tags are weird 12:02:06 I don't think that will work 12:02:21 http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/serial/column_ruins.des;#l91 12:02:25 I've considered that, but you run into the problem of "can't check for layout types until after the layout is generated". 12:02:41 oh, right 12:03:06 I could veto the map if the layout it generates isn't compatible with the primary vault, but that's ridiculous. 12:06:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:27 what if you add a no_primary_vault tag and give it to certain layouts? If a primary vault is chosen, that tag would make it so the layout is never picked for that level 12:06:37 That was exactly what I was thinking. 12:20:10 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:24 Anyone have a list of what's planned for .12? 12:21:25 -!- frogbotherer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:56 no 12:22:43 Welp. 12:23:51 people are working things, if they have time to finish it then it gets in 0.12 12:24:23 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:10 <|amethyst> "We do not `release' software. We uncage our software, letting it leave a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake." 12:26:38 03Grunt * r33ebc3d485e7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/layout.des dungeon.cc): Disallow primary vaults from being used with open layouts. 12:26:39 it would be nice to at least have a development planning page again, though. 12:27:10 even if half of it gets pushed back to 0.13 and beyond 12:27:13 I guess that message should have been written "[...]open layouts[...]primary vaults" and not vice versa. 12:27:23 Yeah. 12:27:40 I'm thinking Stalkers have their days numbered at this point 12:27:52 its possible 12:27:58 And maybe High Elves 12:28:02 does anybody else feel like a search for "recharge" should match scrolls of recharging? seen this several times now 12:28:17 ^Seconded 12:28:18 todo: win a HESt <_< 12:28:23 people have talked about removing high elves before, i've given several reasons why that is unnecessary 12:28:26 <|amethyst> I always leave off endings when I search, but I can see the issue 12:28:34 i don't think so many people are in favour of getting rid of HE 12:28:39 if we really must get rid of an elf, reflavour high elves, maybe give them a special ability, and rename them 12:28:49 give them glamour 12:28:58 but i just started on stalkers/fulsome/evap locally today 12:29:23 since i'm pretty sure they won't be missed 12:29:49 <|amethyst> evilmike: I think the biggest reason, and it's not really a good one, is that it makes some of the justifications for removing MD seem insincere 12:30:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:31:03 MY reason for wanting High Elves gone is simple; that way more people will play Deep Elves instead! 12:31:18 thats a terrible reason 12:31:21 Egotistical, stupid, and horrible all at the same tiime! 12:31:28 *time 12:31:42 also, i think the massive popularity of minotaurs right now is evidence that we really could use another melee focused race 12:32:23 if weapon styles go in, it might be enough to make one actually feel different from the others 12:32:57 We have another melee-focused race. It's called HO. 12:33:01 <_< 12:33:11 I meant a third 12:33:13 We also have Trolls and Ogres 12:34:31 merging at least just the cleave for axes from the patch on mantis would be nice, yeah 12:35:36 my thought is if the weapons feel really different from each other, we could have one race focused on axes/maces, one on other weapons, and keep hill orcs as a hybrid-y race 12:35:37 just adding cleaving without weapon moves for other weapon types would be an incredible buff to axes, wouldn't it? 12:35:57 can reduce their damage at the same time, as with polearms + reaching 12:36:09 for a large fraction of players a new melee race is probably more flavorful / immersive than a new god they'll probably never experience 12:36:22 especially with some weapon styles (not all from the patch) 12:36:52 they just need to play differently from each other, that's the important thing 12:37:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:19 regarding cleaving, my experience (playing brogue) is it's not as strong as you might think, when other weapons have higher base damage 12:39:34 this is because even if you can attack multiple enemies, fighting in a corridor is still a better option 12:40:13 so, if axes had slightly lower damage than (say) maces on the same "tier", it would probably work out 12:41:56 oh btw, when I was talking about a new melee race, I wasn't specifically thinking of mountain dwarves. if anyone fixes up lava orcs, they could work for that 12:42:09 There might be a chance to get a new god into 0.12. No promises, but Raphael made some indications he could be up to it. <3 <3 <3 12:42:15 cleaving in brogue kind of gets a boost anyway from being the only melee to attack diagonally with a corner in the way 12:42:28 crawl doesn't have that aspect 12:42:34 yeah 12:42:42 evilmike: yes, not half base damage or so for axes, just a little lower. It'd be really to try it out. 12:43:15 are there any spells that'd fit into the book of alchemy with fulsome+evap removed? 12:43:27 half base damage would be nuts. I really think it only needs to be *slightly* lower. Just because in most cases, a corridor is still better than fighting 3 guys at once 12:43:34 Reverse Alchemy, MarvinPA 12:43:40 evilmike: yes yes :) 12:44:02 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:44:14 ??book of alchemy 12:44:14 book of alchemy[1/1]: Fulsome Distillation, Lethal Infusion, Sublimation of Blood, Evaporate, Condensation Shield 12:44:21 MarvinPA: old proposal of mine, not sure if it is liked. Gotta go, so here's quick: takes gold and magic and turns it into energy (damage). 12:44:36 heh yeah, that did come to mind actually, i remember you mentioning it before 12:44:43 gold would be more fun to use as a reagent, because there is no menu crap to deal with 12:45:01 evilmike: for example. And there shouldn't be prompts for amount :) 12:45:03 anyway, later 12:45:08 <|amethyst> Zeninage 12:45:49 <|amethyst> petrify is arguably alchemical, though working on creatures rather than objects is a bit off 12:45:54 -!- tensorpudding_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:46:15 MarvinPA: give it alistair's intoxication? 12:46:36 i like the idea of alchemists getting drunk 12:47:30 <|amethyst> corpse rot is arguably alchemical 12:47:42 i'd suggest ignite poison but i prefer keeping that spell rare 12:47:50 ignite poison fits too i guess 12:48:14 "phase shift" sorta fits with the chemestry theme but it should probably stick to tmut 12:48:44 only needs a couple of replacements, anyway 12:48:59 <|amethyst> removing Fulsome does make Sublimation sound a bit out of place 12:49:21 <|amethyst> s/sound/seem/ 12:50:08 <|amethyst> well, I guess there's also Lethal Infusion 12:50:13 Should still keep sublimation in there, I think 12:51:00 <|amethyst> I guess necro/tmut works 12:51:13 -!- Adeon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:25 I'm not a fan of chunk-sublimation (I think it's too weak to be worth the effort), but self-sublimation is a fun game mechanic. So the spell shouldn't be made rarer, imo 12:52:00 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:36 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:58 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:51 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-100-g33ebc3d (33) 13:19:56 <|amethyst> speaking of alchemy, is there a way to make a foo-to-gold spell (or item) that is neither grindable nor worthless? 13:21:18 as an item: give it limited uses I guess. As a spell: there'd be issues, I think 13:21:34 I don't like the idea of either though. It seems too similar to selling items 13:21:38 <|amethyst> yeah 13:22:08 <|amethyst> (cursed) gloves of midas that turn (everything? corpses? food?) into gold 13:22:26 <|amethyst> I guess curses are too easy to remove for that 13:22:27 I think people would use those on purpose 13:24:00 how about something that only turns enemies into gold after killing them? 13:24:15 <|amethyst> that's what I meant by "corpses?" 13:24:34 hm oh wait, enemies respawn... 13:24:57 Yeah, but not forever 13:25:01 still dumb 13:25:10 Outside of the Vestible or Pan or the Hells... 13:26:17 how about a really heavy item (some kind of magical ball of gold) that increases the amount of gold you find when carried? 13:26:23 gold-to-foo seems more interesting generally anyway 13:26:57 it could even magically adjust its weight to always make you burdened (some minimum weight too) 13:27:57 inventory weight is an unfun game mechanic, i wouldn't want to emphasize it 13:28:22 burdened is just noisy, ponderous, hunger 13:28:33 i think 13:28:34 "just" 13:28:37 :) 13:28:39 if it does something like make you always burdened, i guarantee players will do stupid things with it, like portal projectile it everywhere 13:29:01 well, but then you have to explore terriotory without carrying it 13:29:08 did you use to get extra chei piety while burdened 13:29:10 which means no extra gold from the stacks you find :) 13:29:26 still not a good idea i guess 13:29:42 would just be a newbie trap i think 13:29:45 you could just carry it into vaults 13:29:50 especially ones where you know the loot is gold 13:30:00 ah, right, that too 13:36:14 03evilmike * rbbf0d93a76ef 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/arena_sprint.des: More balance changes to Sprint VI. 13:36:50 ^What are the balance changes? 13:37:02 read the commit message 13:37:06 Sure 13:38:17 -!- scwizard has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:38:21 Thank god for the Agnes change; now I can actually pacify her! 13:45:24 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: dicks] 13:55:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:59:46 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-101-gbbf0d93 (33) 14:05:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:25 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:49 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:07:14 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:28 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:36 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:04 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:00 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:37 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:11 -!- rkd2 has quit [] 14:32:46 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:23 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:35 -!- absolutego_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:59 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:02 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:02 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:17 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:37 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 14:40:48 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:44 -!- Chozo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:42:53 -!- Chozo_ is now known as Chozo 14:47:07 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:14 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:44 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:44 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:58 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:05:35 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:08 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:31 Fannar Doesn't Get Refrigeration (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6087) by cruelio 15:09:54 -!- naalis has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 15:10:51 not sure that would be a great thing to do 15:11:17 That's a horribly misleading title. 15:11:33 also that, yes 15:12:22 "doesn't get" as in doesn't understand how the spell works, maybe :P 15:16:24 -!- wasd22 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:29 03Grunt * r4ebae717acf3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: bmh's Zot space-filling curve vaults (#6043). 15:19:41 03Grunt * r3e1a2a66028f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: 33 floating vaults by minmay (#6082). 15:20:02 oh, I was goign to comment on those... there are a couple of small ones which ought to be minivaults 15:20:12 minmay's? 15:20:15 yeah 15:20:25 the first two especially. No reason to give them an orient line, imo 15:20:37 I can easily move those. <_< 15:22:02 those are the only two small ones, I guess 15:24:07 03Grunt * rceb56b27612e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (float.des mini_monsters.des): Turn two of the just-added minmay vaults into minivaults. 15:24:51 What do you think should be done with the orc priest cage in #6043? 15:25:22 It's not a particularly original idea, and it doesn't make sense to place it where it's specified to place. 15:25:26 I think it should just be avoided. 15:25:29 me too 15:25:40 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:13 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 15:47:07 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:21 Most of the residual vault layout uploads are either controversial or unfinished, it looks like. 15:54:51 the vaults layout infiniplex uploaded works, but he says he doesn't want anyone to commit it until get gets serial vaults to work 15:55:01 Thus, "unfinished". 15:55:02 :b 15:55:33 well, i'm worried it's gotten sidetracked 15:56:01 it would be a nice feature, but its a pretty small one, but very complicated by the looks of it 15:56:44 -!- Chozo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:03 could get somebody to start a patch for giving appropiate tags to minivaults that'd work in the layout 15:57:32 though I suppose that's further distraction from testing out the original upload stuff 15:57:56 yes 15:58:14 we could be testing it now if it wasn't for your serial vaults idea :P 15:58:26 :( 15:59:20 Something tells me that that would constitute a 'major change', evilmike. 15:59:20 :D 15:59:35 well, it's looking like cdo is probably going to stick to trunk, so whatever 15:59:48 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-104-gceb56b2 (33) 15:59:53 when I made that comment I was thinking 0.11-b would be hosted on all the servers 16:00:08 CDO has historically only been interested in trunk and final releases. 16:00:24 I haven't been able to get an answer as to whether 0.11-b is going to turn up on there before it becomes 0.11.0. 16:00:41 there are lots of people playing 0.11-b on czso anyway 16:01:05 Yes, it's playable online at the moment. 16:01:21 It's also available as a download, though that's not as obvious as it should be. 16:02:10 I was actually just thinking of sticking infiniplex's stuff in a branch first, without adding it to trunk 16:02:24 That would be sensible. 16:02:49 I think the layout and the reduction in length should hit trunk at the same time, and tweaking that in a branch first would be a good idea. 16:03:10 I have a local branch that does both of those already 16:03:26 reducing the length is easy, I don't think we need to worry about saves any more either (not 100% sure on that though) 16:05:02 As in, "things won't break if we load a save game from before the depth reduction in a version after"? 16:05:26 The branch depths are stored in save games. 16:05:48 yeah, but the branch ending vaults are all "Branch:$" now instead of specific numbers 16:06:05 There are some other vaults that specify, say, "Vaults:1-7", though. 16:06:26 I think instances of that (or for other branches) should become "Vaults, !Vaults:$". 16:06:55 Vaults:$ is an encompass vault, though 16:07:17 Well, Vaults is a bad example of that. 16:07:41 I'm thinking of vaults such as, oh, evilmike_ambush. :b 16:07:56 ...where implicit assumptions are made about branch depths. 16:08:02 oh, yeah 16:08:08 there are four vaults that ask for v:6 as max depth because of staircase shenanigans, too 16:08:29 I went through all the vaults that did that and changed them. But still, I don't think that causes problems with saves 16:09:47 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:49 doing it like "Vaults, !Vaults:$" sounds good though... much better than having to change the numbers every time a branch length is altered 16:10:10 * Grunt struggles to remember what he was working on when he came up with that idea. 16:10:22 ...oh yeah, it was a downstair ambush vault which didn't work very well. 16:10:24 -!- adamorjames has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:11:24 -!- ho has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:44 also the uniques have very specific depths sometimes I guess 16:12:47 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:32 -!- chewymouse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:36 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:04 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:19:51 -!- Namey has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:05 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:48 -!- adamorjames has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:28 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:13 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:31 -!- ho has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:14 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:31 Discussing the Vaults overhaul? 16:29:43 I'm guessing that'll be a big feature for .12 16:30:29 I'd mess with the monster set first, current maps are not that bad. 16:31:00 Vaults has monsters that the Dungeon doesn't? 16:31:12 exactly 16:32:40 elliptic: what's the point of 7b42df61? I don't see what would be the benefit of claiming that "held" is not a form of constriction. 16:33:14 and most important, there's no way for lua code to check for holding after that commit 16:33:19 kilobyte: it was broken and didn't work at all previously 16:33:20 the monster set could use work, but the new layouts uploaded look like a lot of fun. The biggest problem I see right now is that one of the styles can place too many traps and too much gold 16:33:26 I had to decide in what way to fix it 16:33:35 and holding and constricting are rather different 16:34:01 I think they should be checked separately 16:34:18 I just really want to get these layouts in a branch, because testing them right now requires adding several files and changing quite a few others, so I doubt many people will bother testing it 16:34:42 Portal vault it 16:34:45 There, problem solved 16:35:01 this wouldn't work as a portal vault, at all 16:35:26 and making it work as one would add a bunch of unnecessary extra work 16:35:43 I'd say the difference is rather minor; getting rid of a holder is less important than that of a constrictor, but it's still quite a priority 16:35:55 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:40 as in: simple code would benefit from having both holding and constriction considered to be the same (less things to check for, some tests would become really complex, the behaviour you want is usually same); and only then possibly querying the severity of constriction 16:39:26 held by a vanilla mimic > constricted by a small snake 16:40:09 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:40:25 not really 16:40:37 I've been rather unimpressed with hold as a mechanic 16:41:39 anyway if you want to change it I won't complain... as I said, I had to make a decision one way or the other and my inclination was that separate checks would be better, but I don't feel that strongly about it 16:42:46 -!- __jpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:04 how do bots check for "you can't move"? 16:45:26 what bots? 16:45:57 presumably he means xw, autorobin, and their ilk 16:46:33 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:06 autorobin didn't check 16:49:05 -!- Torsha has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:15 -!- __jpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:58 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:34 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:58:26 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:58:54 -!- RollieTG has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:56 -!- __jpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:02:47 -!- __jpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:02 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:47 ??dodging 17:09:47 dodging[1/3]: First, halve the part of your dex over 24, and then halve the part over 34. Then your base EV is 10 + size_factor + (7 + dodging * new_dex) / (20 - size_factor). Then subtract your {aevp} and {asp}, then halve the part over 30, and then halve the part over 50. Then apply randarts, rings, and merfolk/tengu bonuses. Go stepdowns! 17:09:52 ??dodging [2] 17:09:52 dodging[2/3]: Your dodging bonus is reduced by 30*(EVP - 1)/strength, where EVP is the base penalty of your body armour (does not depend on Armour skill). 17:09:59 ??dodging [3] 17:09:59 dodging[3/3]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auabi_BjyRlPdHBSMW5xYmJzMy0zYXRIZ1NUc2pka2c#gid=2 17:11:35 -!- __jpmorgan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:00 !won 17:12:27 Lightli has won 16 times in 974 games (1.64%): 5xHOHe 4xDEFE 1xHOBe 1xHOPr 1xKoBe 1xMfBe 1xMiBe 1xMiFi 1xMuSu 17:13:11 hi 17:13:48 why are you using ##crawl-dev as ##crawl, lightli 17:13:50 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:58 Accident 17:14:09 (Also, Sequell appears to have a massive delay today) 17:14:57 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:57 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:27 -!- artnam is now known as Jaxy 17:29:24 -!- __jpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:02 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:42 -!- __jpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:42:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:55 -!- __jpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:00 -!- CedorDark has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:48:47 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 17:48:50 -!- fooobaar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:27 -!- LoremIpsum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:23 -!- Raycaster has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:23 -!- [1]Raycaster is now known as Raycaster 17:55:07 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:02:58 -!- __jpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:20 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 18:09:12 -!- __jpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:05 -!- Deathmic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:12 -!- frogbotherer has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:52 Mutations suppressed for no reason (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6088) by Tiber 18:13:59 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:36 -!- quackv4 has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:18:18 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 18:21:25 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:29:56 -!- CIA-61 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:56 -!- CIA-84 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:34 -!- fooobaar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:37:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:37:48 -!- dingir has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:58 -!- Arthur` has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:39:32 -!- erisdiscordia has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:42:35 -!- Pthing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:11 -!- elliott has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:45:28 -!- elliott has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:21 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:00:26 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:42 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:05:56 -!- domi is now known as domi_ 19:08:30 -!- ssss has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:12:59 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 19:14:31 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:24:02 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:03 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:30 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:28:58 fsim on toadstool,fungus,plant,bush causes crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6089) by minmay 19:32:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:35 -!- Kliff has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:58 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:22 -!- unknownuser has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:57:45 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:43 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:04:47 -!- frogbotherer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:25 -!- RollieTG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:57 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:56 -!- Mithel has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:35:09 -!- ebarrett has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:20 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 20:42:28 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:50 -!- Honk has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:47 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:43 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:21 -!- ajikeshi__ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:54:32 -!- Chozo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:15 -!- Alexor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:00:07 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-107-gbeaabae (33) 21:01:02 -!- alefury has quit [] 21:11:09 -!- Oddtwang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:40 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:01 -!- MPR has quit [Changing host] 21:17:56 -!- MPR| has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:21:04 -!- dptr1988 has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:07 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:38:03 -!- ZRN_ has quit [] 21:44:48 -!- fooobaar has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:52:09 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:04 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:38 -!- stickyhippo has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:06 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:19:59 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:27 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:48 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 22:24:08 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:30:24 -!- One-Eyed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:35:31 -!- casmith790 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:03 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:40:27 -!- fooobaar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:30 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:47 -!- fungee^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:50 -!- DiazepaN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:08 -!- scwizard has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:59:51 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.12-a0-108-gc5ec0f4 (33) 23:05:07 -!- casmith790 is now known as casmith789 23:28:23 -!- Rewans has quit [] 23:36:45 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:29 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:36 -!- MrScorpius has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:47:03 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:51:17 -!- eb_ is now known as ebarrett 23:57:39 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:59:09 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: bye]