00:03:19 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:37 -!- eeviac_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 00:18:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:40:16 * Grunt completes some more Lua black magic. 00:40:21 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=66912#p66912 00:49:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:13 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:20:42 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:43 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:19 -!- ussdefiant__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:46 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:21:59 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:21 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:19 isn't it weird that octopodes can constrict with the tentacles they used for wielding weapons and shields? 02:41:56 maybe we could restrict number of constricted monsters to 4,6,8 depending on what's wielded 02:42:18 or 5 if wielding 1.5 handed with no shield 02:48:32 http://www.indiegogo.com/resurrect-adom-development 02:48:41 "UI improvements to bring ADOM up-to-date with the progress the roguelike genre has made, to be decided upon based on recommendations of players in the forums (e.g. colored message, some kind of auto-exploration and others)" 02:50:09 Can't the developers just come here and help us instead? :F 02:59:31 galehar: this makes sense in terms of realism but it's also too complicated imo. if you want to restrict it like that, just make it always 5, or something like that 03:00:33 wouldn't 4 make more sense then? 03:01:59 I guess, yeah. Haven't really thought about what the number should be - I just think it's better to have it fixed at something easy to remember 03:02:15 otherwise it means players will need to remember all the rules for how many tentacles are "in use" 03:03:59 maybe. So, do you think limiting Oc to 4 constrictions would be more interesting than the current 8? 03:05:07 I'm fine with the current 8 (even constricting 8 monsters when you are using your tentacles for weapons, etc) 03:05:19 you'd have to be kind of crazy to be constricting that many enemies at once :P 03:10:10 The nice thing about 8 is it simply means you can constrict as many enemies as you want 03:17:52 evilmike: doing that sounds widly dangerous 03:17:58 unless you're fighting rats or mats... 03:18:02 *bats... 03:18:12 well, they'd die pretty quickly. So you'd want 8 high HP monsters 03:18:24 and immunity for yourself... 03:19:39 what about the tentacle mutation? Have we considered giving it constriction at level 2 or 3? 03:21:56 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:20 would need to make beastly appendage not give tentacles (if this hasn't been done yet) 03:32:04 Keskitalo: this whole adom1 resurrection is so similar to a remake. instead of just bugfixes (that could have been done years ago) people will get an enhanced director's cut. this can be good or bad. the scary part is that notch has been supporting that in a recent tweet. so it might happen it after all. even though it's a ludicrous amount of money for what will be delivered 03:32:19 Since there are people talking here 03:32:23 and even people with op... 03:32:30 do we need more species? 03:32:36 I want to make a new playable one 03:32:50 with new mechanics. 03:33:16 even though i'm quite certain that biskup and his team are worth that money and that it WILL take as least as long as he has estimated. but it's C and from his own assement a horribly mess 03:37:23 TZer0: sure, why not. Though making a species which is interesting and differentiated from eixsting one is hard 03:38:14 TZer0: you'd better write the design and post it on the dev wiki and discuss it here before 03:38:22 before coding it 03:39:12 on the subject of crawl, I've been thinking lately that trees would be better if they were opaque. The half-opaque ones we have now make it harder to navagate levels imo (both normally and with autoexplore). I'm sure someone will disagree with me strongly here 03:39:53 oh, about the glowing/runed changes, I'm thinking +3 or +4 items should get it too, and cursed ones only a coinflip chance 03:39:56 The reason I'm saying this is today I was experimenting with the swamp layout, trying to make levels more varied/less annoying to explore. Opaque trees seem to help with this 03:41:57 evilmike: I don't have an opinion on trees in general, but we can make swamp ones different. They already have a different tile, we can also give them different name/description/glyph/opacity 03:43:06 Making just swamp trees opaque could be an option, yeah 03:43:22 (as a side note, if you want to autoexplore swamp, opaque trees cuts about 300 turns from it) 03:43:58 currently, non-glowing stuff is guaranteed to be uncursed, and if a monster's glowing weapon hasn't been id'ed during fight, it's likely to be cursed (or vorpal) 03:45:40 I wouldn't want to add a different tree type if it's not necessary, but if anyone voices strongly against opaque trees, special ones for swamp is a solution 03:45:46 those all sound like good ideas to me 03:45:59 galehar: swamp already uses a special type of tree 03:46:26 yeah, but it's hidden 03:46:47 well, they get water underneath them. That's about the only difference I think 03:46:48 it's just so that they turn to water when burnt, right? 03:46:56 the tile also shows water underneath it 03:47:43 if thet get a more significant gameplay differentiation by being opaque, they need to have a different name 03:48:12 there's a comment suggesting they could be renamed to mangroves 03:57:48 galehar: my idea was a species which relies on a temporary blink ability along with stealth 03:58:15 TZer0: what's a temporary blink ability? 03:58:29 that is, you have an ability (which develops at a certain level) which blinks you to a location and after a set number of turns blinks you out regardless of being silenced etc. 03:58:56 this will be at the expense of MP and being a fragile species 03:59:13 you automatically blink back to your original pos? 03:59:37 Yeah 04:00:02 or, it could be like: low level: blinks you in, then performs a random blink 04:00:15 medium: blinks you in, then out to where you were 04:00:26 and high: blinks you in, then out to where you want 04:00:31 are you talking about a controlled blink? 04:01:01 All starting blinks are controlled 04:01:17 but blinking out isn't at first 04:01:23 i see people were talking about branch layouts today. the only thing i want to add for now: hells are *horribly* *boring*. go use the spider generator for tar and *something* for the others but don't keep them as they are now :( 04:02:04 So, allow me to correct it 04:02:12 Low: controlled blink, random blink after N turns 04:02:26 Medium: controlled blink, blink back to previous location after N turns 04:02:36 High: controlled blink, controlled blink after N turns 04:02:39 so you control blink, stab and it automatically blinks out? Seems powerful. Maybe boring too. Any drawback or do you keep doing that all game long? 04:02:47 not at once 04:03:03 You get to stay there for a few turns 04:03:28 statue race that can only move by blinking 04:03:37 Hmmm... 04:03:43 blasthardcheese: death mold in tome2 04:03:44 that may be amusing 04:04:07 bhaak: It's indeed very interesting to follow, compared to OS model 04:04:12 But what I was thinking was that the species would be rather fragile 04:04:23 TZer0: controlled blink are extremely powerful. I'm sceptical about making it a species shtick 04:04:24 BlastHardcheese: statue race that can only move when no monster is looking at them 04:04:38 bhaak: And kills them by sending them back in time. 04:04:40 galehar: I see. 04:04:47 "kills" 04:05:04 galehar: even if it means that the race starts off with less than half of the standard HP? 04:05:35 oh god no more felids 04:05:48 How about halving damage while in the blink-state 04:05:50 that is damage dealth 04:05:52 not received 04:05:52 ghallberg: it might be a bit difficult to code so that you always get a consistent timelime :) 04:05:56 or doubling damage received 04:06:10 FR: Tardis branch 04:06:23 *dealt 04:06:27 not dealth 04:06:28 fragile stabber with quick movement seems like it overlaps a lot with spriggan 04:06:33 mhm 04:07:18 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:42 bhaak: i thought that's what chei is for 04:07:45 Keskitalo: i think biskup suffers a bit from "can't let go". he still sees a lot of potential in adom1 and it hurts if you can't treat something you love the way you think it should be treated. 04:08:09 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:30 i think they suffer a lot from "money is important to me and only i can do this" 04:09:29 i think "my time is THIS valuable" and "i don't want to make it OSS so only the few of us can do it". completely reasonable arguments, even though the consequences are not that favorable for the players 04:10:01 right, but i don't get why players (those who are asked to back them) agree with it 04:10:08 it's even a bit worse than the nethack situation, where we a silent devteam that does nothing. here we have a devteam that constantly talks about something they are doing but so far haven't been delivering anything 04:10:43 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:58 BlastHardcheese: Statue Berserker..... 04:11:08 i mean, those are the peope that failed to release bugfixes for a bloody decade, why should i trust their assessment that only they can do "it" 04:11:10 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 04:11:37 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:38 ChrisOelmueller: my guess is that many adom players are not from the OSS community or programmers or even the general roguelike community. but he's actually delivering now stuff with adomII. so they can, if they do :) 04:11:57 heh yeah, i figured that much :-) 04:12:14 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:39 and from the comments on the blog, people are actually excited about what they've seen so far from AdomII 04:12:56 i don't know if this is only fanboyism 04:13:05 03galehar * raa282566ac48 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Remove randomly generated secret doors. 04:13:30 whoo. 04:13:49 galehar: but if I wish to contribute content to crawl, any suggestions to what I might do? 04:15:14 my vote, interesting layout generators for hells. 0:-) 04:15:31 Hmm. 04:15:35 galehar: <3 for the door secret change 04:15:47 <3 for mimic work, too 04:15:56 galehar: +1 04:16:30 also, a hint: never, ever, talk about wanting tiles in a public-accessible place 04:16:46 another d&dism killed 04:17:20 all 8 pieces of spam I got overnight that passed spamassassins are from Chinese tile-making factories. Seems like they're three different ones, too. 04:17:24 still alive for vaults but i hope people are working on that 04:17:37 s/(spamassassin)s/\1/ 04:18:12 bhaak: yeah, one thing I'm trying to read from the proposal is how is Biskup going to devote time to the project -- I've understood he's a very busy guy. But I guess it's about hiring a team to work on the game. 04:18:19 galehar: yay 04:18:40 kilobyte: Haha, yeah, some of the spam on the blog has been pretty funny 04:20:24 speaking of tiles: I'll finish that Unicode in local tiles thingy once I get my home in a working state, but I realized something nastier: that resize thing is not optional 04:20:39 on the topic of blog stuff, someone needs to make a post about 0.10.3 :P 04:20:59 kilobyte: Do you mean the window resizing on the fly? 04:21:05 if I recall correctly, on Windows 8 local tiles keep getting covered by Windows' taskbar, get placed out of screen, etc 04:21:14 yeah 04:21:39 alternatively, we could somehow fix the behaviour on Windows 8, but that's kind of whack a mole 04:22:16 well, it would be nice to do that anyway, but the resizing would be quite good to have indeed 04:22:31 also, dual monitor setups, and also some odd window managers 04:22:34 aye 04:22:55 I wonder if I've forgotten everything about the patch and related codebase since then 04:23:18 but I'll have to do the tutorial stuff first, and it's a bit slow going.. ironing out the second lesson, nearly finished testing 04:23:25 sadly, have to work too :P 04:23:44 I haven't seen frogbotherer since half a week ago, so let me recap my ideas 04:23:50 Keskitalo: yeah, that too 04:23:55 Keskitalo: he already has a team. one guy he knows for a long time for coding and two that will do graphics and sound. those will be able to invest more time as then the work for adom1 is more like contract work. for biskup himself, i'm not sure. as a CEO he might be able to get more free time by paying somebody else to do some work for him? 04:25:13 1. texture size can be trivially halved by setting the whole texture's size to a power of two, not the size of individual glyphs. Even when using the max size, it is 20x18: so we need 512x512 with individual alignment but 512x256 without 04:25:55 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:12 2. freetype is pretty fast (at least, most programs display oodles of text without caching glyphs), so there's no need of keeping a copy of the full texture in memory so it can be edited; we can recreate it from scratch 04:26:39 and most interesting for the rest of us, 3. why exactly do we disallow subpixel antialiasing? 04:27:12 there's an option to choose between "light" and regular antialiasing 04:27:36 but, does any of you know how to ask the system what antialiasing is globally configured? 04:28:51 kilobyte: frogbotherer has logged on the tavern yesterday, so he's around 04:30:49 kilobyte: I'm clueless, so can't comment.. except that tiles with glyphs is <3 05:00:02 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2574-g7fd43ee 05:09:14 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:07 -!- aleksil has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:32 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:04 Soo, uhh, how do I contribute to crawl? 05:25:56 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:28:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:31:30 TZer0: This might be helpful to read through, though it's been a moment since it was updated: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:process 05:33:16 Your question is pretty general though, what would you like to do? :) 05:34:40 there's some stuff on the contributions sub-forum in the tavern 05:34:45 whether you want to code or not 05:34:58 Oh yes, I just realized I have a help wanted thread there too :D 05:35:43 oh yeah i have to replay the tutorial, but i keep forgetting 05:35:48 TZer0: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4967 05:36:15 why do you need feedback when you have xuaxua 05:39:20 absolutego: much apprecuiated! 05:40:22 TZer0: you can also check the mantis implementables 05:51:45 New branch created: swamp (8 commits) 05:52:16 I put that in a branch because some of what I did there might be controversial or just bad, I don't know. If anyone wants to take a look, go ahead 05:54:00 Keskitalo: tutorial #1 crashed at the end :p 05:54:35 does "Abort trap" say anything to you? 06:00:12 evilmike: those swamp changes look pretty good 06:04:11 uhm, bolt of cold in swamp will create a bunch of freezing clouds 06:04:51 yes 06:08:41 they last for like one turn, it makes them a bit more dangerous if you're over water. The point is to turn bog mummies into something more dangerous, rather than something that only exists to annoy 06:08:58 if that doesn't work, something else can be done instead 06:11:38 Keskitalo: thanks! will check out 06:11:46 galehar: thanks! 06:11:52 (sorry for late replies...) 06:12:01 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:13:51 absolutego: and yes, I'd like to contribute code. 06:15:43 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:07 TZer0: depends on what kind of code you're good with 06:17:13 there's a number of parts that are woefully undermaintained, but then, folks tend to prefer adding new stuff over fixing/overhauling stuff 06:17:57 fixing bugs is certainly a good way to familiarize oneself with the code base while contributing 06:19:10 galehar, kilobyte true, true. 06:22:00 I'll check out the bug tracker when I get home. 06:22:16 and see if there's some stuff I can do :) 06:22:30 one particular big problem is the "resize" branch which causes crashes, screen not being redrawn, etc 06:23:20 Hm. 06:24:04 it is needed to fix problems with dual-monitor setups, Windows 8, and certain rare window managers 06:24:17 Also, quick suggestion to make Crawl a bit more available to the masses online 06:24:40 What if one could connect using a crawl-tiles client to a server 06:24:42 to play there. 06:25:29 (not that I plan to touch anything like that at first..) 06:26:05 03evilmike 07swamp * rea2f81ae6359 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (branches/swamp.des variable/mini_monsters.des): Place mangroves instead of trees in Swamp vaults. 06:26:37 -!- Adeon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:49 that'd be a load of work, and mostly redundant with webtiles 06:27:57 Mh, true 06:31:00 it would be a load of work, but not wasted if we merge the android port 06:31:25 a native client could have a much slicker interface than webtiles on android 06:31:25 mangroves <3 06:32:10 kilobyte: it was my understanding that dual monitor problems were caused by SDL 1.2 not handling them 06:32:20 beh, can't we use proper willows like in a reasonable climate zone? :p 06:32:22 evilmike: might make them more annoying, though, specially if you can't fly. the layout changes are probably welcome and i'll have a look when i have a minute 06:32:40 * kilobyte has the words "swamp" and "weeping willows" hardwired together. 06:32:45 the tile was already named mangrove! 06:34:07 hrm, looks like in English the word "weeping willow" is some ornamental toy tree 06:35:58 we could have different-climate swamps across games :) 06:38:33 don't forget plate tectonics 06:44:22 I think that no one would really notice inconsistencies like this -- in a game that has multi-level seas with stairs 06:46:43 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:47:01 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:54 evilmike: you can have some regular trees in swamp besides mangroves, BTW 06:52:13 -!- Claws has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:57 -!- Claws is now known as HangedMan 06:53:45 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:58:32 -!- Claws has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:50 -!- Claws has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:12 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:27 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:33 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:27 03kilobyte * raf665a663a75 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/ (5 files): Mark internal db keys for random artefacts as such. 07:26:28 03kilobyte * rce4b5a446e92 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_arm.txt: A few extra words for randart names. 07:26:28 03kilobyte * r2a3596440679 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (pl/tutorial.txt tutorial.txt): tutorial 5: suggest walking around the glass when searching. 07:26:28 03kilobyte * ra87e3424a468 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Clean away _hide_doors(). 07:26:28 03kilobyte * r2c626ade9d3f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/randname.txt: Mark @jewellery_appearance@ as local. 07:26:32 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:49 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:22 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:52:10 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:16 Morning 07:54:37 heya Cryp71c 07:58:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:35 what does the = 0 means in the declaration of a virtual function? (forgot it and linker failed) 08:05:41 <|amethyst> galehar: pure virtual (doesn't exist in the base class) 08:06:27 ah ok 08:06:31 thanks 08:10:06 a git question now. Let's say I have a branch checked out. I want to update master and rebase. Is there a quicker way than checkout master; pull; checkout branch; rebase? 08:10:40 <|amethyst> git fetch origin master:master will update your master without switching to it 08:12:11 thanks. I knew fetch could do that, but I tried stuff like origin/master instead. 08:19:35 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:20:58 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:06 rebase takes two arguments, so doesnt require switching i think 08:34:42 no it doesn't. My question was about how to update master without having to switch to it 08:42:08 after any fetch (including pull), you can "git rebase gs/master", where "gs" is whatever you named gitorious as 08:43:12 in fact, "git rebase -i gs/master" is what I keep doing all the time to edit/rearrange/squash/fixup/etc commits 08:47:10 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:27 oh, I misread, the usable tentacle code. Seems like it does check wielded weapon and deduce it to the free tentactles 08:47:54 except it does it wrong (1 hand = 1 tentacle instead of 2) and ignore shield 08:48:34 kilobyte: any thoughts on my patch? or is that something you cant do on your phone? 09:01:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:03:25 -!- ddee has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:00 -!- ddee is now known as _dd 09:04:47 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 09:09:15 -!- Adeon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:24 03Keskitalo * rc509054ef507 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Tutorial lesson 2: incorporate changes from KiSS team, edit further, put messages into database. 09:12:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:31 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:33:55 -!- Patashu is now known as Patashu[Zzz] 09:34:36 -!- aleksil has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:16 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:03 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2581-gc509054 (33) 10:21:33 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:28 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:56 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:39 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:06 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:54:17 03galehar 07constriction * ra5ae6f453c6b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc actor.h monster.cc monster.h player-act.cc player.h): Move the constriction_damage method from monster to actor. 10:54:28 03galehar 07constriction * r31cbbf39ff33 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Remove an obsolete comment. 10:54:28 03galehar 07constriction * r0ac724015e6d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc mon-data.h mon-info.cc player.cc status.cc): Implement damageless constriction (hold) and give it to mimics. 10:54:29 03galehar 07constriction * ra5dd2a161d6e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.cc actor.h melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h): Treat constriction as a normal attack type. 10:57:48 I think it's only missing the change to blink (double escape attempt instead of guaranteed escape) 10:58:21 and maybe some tuning of the damage formula 10:58:33 which can be done per monster and without touching HD now 10:59:36 I'll try to finish it tomorrow, but if someone wants to test if for bugs and balance, that would be appreciated 11:00:05 or we can debug it in trunk as usual ;) 11:01:17 'later 11:03:34 JFunk (L18 TrDK) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,21) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 11:15:54 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 11:20:22 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:07 03edlothiol * rc9ab46904d4b 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Improve the webtiles stale process termination dialog. 11:28:46 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:05 03edlothiol * r6f9582649a1f 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix resizing the webtiles page in the lobby after having loaded a game. 11:41:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:26 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:43 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:52 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:09 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:02 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53:38 Base Tiles for Scrolls (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5862) by ontoclasm 13:17:07 -!- absolutego has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:13 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:02 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:46 Jessica spawned in an unreachable area (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5863) by moxian 14:23:21 hilarious looking vault 14:26:31 it's aquarium.des and there's something about how the unique vaults ignore proper exclusions 14:27:15 so she is rather unfortunately stuck because the way those vaults work with each other is as silly as how one can have ruined columns in slaughterboxes 14:57:16 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:32 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:04 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:54 !seen evilmike 15:17:54 I last saw evilmike at Tue Jul 3 11:53:45 2012 UTC (8h 24m 9s ago) quitting with message Quit: sleep. 15:20:52 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:27 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:26 -!- HangedMan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:45 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:45 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes is now known as HangedMan 16:23:54 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 16:26:27 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:00 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:39 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:03 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:23 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:25 dpeg: hello 17:04:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:29 HangedMan: unique vaults have can_overwrite, which allows them to get placed in weird spots (and ignore no_monster_gen). I assume it's supposed to be this way, but it leads to weirdness sometimes 17:05:08 weirdness such as said mantis issue 17:05:23 <|amethyst> evilmike: I made a suggestion on that mantis entry to either have can_overwrite respect no_monster_gen, or (probably better) to have a new mask for that 17:05:35 <|amethyst> I guess no_rtele_into might be another option 17:05:36 a new mask would be better, imo 17:06:02 I think it's good that uniques can spawn in no_monster_gen levels (some encompass maps use this tag to prevent the level from being overpopulated) 17:06:53 <|amethyst> it would be nice to have a .des syntax to say "mark this as enclosed" that sets no_rtele_into, no_monster_gen, the new mask, etc. 17:09:05 that does sound convenient 17:09:58 <|amethyst> unfortunately no_monster_gen is a mask and no_rtele_into is a property 17:10:32 <|amethyst> and those interact with shuffle/subst in completely different ways :( 17:11:17 <|amethyst> so for consistency you'd have to make sure that stuff comes after all substs/shuffles 17:11:17 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:21 -!- Wensley has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:10 <|amethyst> fixing the difference between properties and masks would be nice 17:12:42 <|amethyst> but that will require that every vault that uses KPROP: be checked and perhaps fixed :( 17:12:49 that's not a big deal 17:13:04 New tiles for Shoals (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5864) by roctavian 17:13:23 grepping for KPROP is easy. the hard part is when you're looking for secret doors or something (can't really search for "=") 17:13:51 <|amethyst> From the point of view of a vault designer, there's no reason masks and props should be different things at all 17:14:07 ...wow, mantis is a real hive of activity right now :) 17:14:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:14:22 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:25 <|amethyst> it's an implementation detail whether something is one or the other 17:14:25 |amethyst: yeah 17:14:38 <|amethyst> well 17:14:40 well, you can do funky parsing with a python commandline or maybe even sed 17:14:49 to only search for = between MAP and ENDMAP 17:14:54 <|amethyst> the thing is, I think the way KPROP is parsed is more powerful 17:15:05 <|amethyst> but it's inconsistent with everything else 17:15:20 <|amethyst> s/I think // 17:16:16 or grep for "^[^A-Z].*=" or something that will exclude lines that start with KPROP etc. 17:16:24 <|amethyst> (the difference being that KPROP applies to things that *currently* have the specified glyph, with subsequent shuffles/substs ignored; while KMASK KITEM etc apply to the final glyph) 17:17:10 <|amethyst> I guess splitting glyphs into two would be a general solution, as long as you don't run out of glyphs 17:17:16 come to think of it, I think changing KPROP to work like those others would make it more awkward to use 17:17:28 even though it's a bit confusing the way it is now 17:17:36 <|amethyst> KMASK users always have to do that, though 17:17:49 <|amethyst> either way they should be consistent 17:17:58 Hmm, I could swear I've used Ksomething (other than KPROP) to apply to the current glyph rather than the final glyph at some point. 17:18:38 i think I'd rather have KMASK use the KPROP style. It makes the map simpler to edit 17:19:00 <|amethyst> evilmike: but KITEM KMONS keep their current semantics? 17:19:11 yeah 17:20:06 <|amethyst> sounds good... the only needed fix to the .des would be to move KMASK to the end 17:20:25 <|amethyst> implementation might be a pain 17:20:46 not a whole lot of vaults use KMASK 17:21:26 <|amethyst> I could 96 occurrences of KMASK, and 147 of KPROP 17:28:22 just from looking at some of them, I think most of them wouldn't even need editing 17:28:31 It appears so. 17:29:07 <|amethyst> evilmike: could you write up an implementable? It would be probably necessary to remove the mask from keyed_mapspec and implement it more like map_lines::overlay_fprops(), which is nontrivial 17:32:12 <|amethyst> I guess it could be merged with or at least linked to 5786 17:34:02 you actually know how this stuff works better than I do. I'm familliar with how to use them when making a vault, but not a whole lot more than that. 17:34:28 so if I wrote an implementable, I'd probably miss something important or make a mistake 17:46:18 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:36 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:45 Unify KMASK and KPROP (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5865) by neil 17:58:49 <|amethyst> evilmike: done; Chei should announce it soon 17:58:57 <|amethyst> there it goes :) 18:05:43 -!- Patashu[Zzz] is now known as Patashu 18:06:44 hmm, I seem to have broken something when messing with the swamp layout. Just got this (the '<' is the exit to lair, and '?' are trees) 18:06:45 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gWUy1R9e 18:07:10 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:23 I thought there was a check that prevented that sort of thing 18:07:57 evilmike: you've vastly improved the swamp branch by making it wholly inaccessible 18:07:59 accolades! 18:08:20 it usually won't put you inside a small room with no exits. but the fact that it can is troublesome :P 18:09:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:37 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 18:16:18 evilmike: just back 18:17:29 evilmike: sorry I flaked on the swamp email... but you're having a good grip on future Swamp anyway, it seems :) 18:17:46 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:47 indeed 18:17:50 hey dpeg! 18:17:58 yeah, this connectivity thing is bugging me though 18:18:18 Hi Raphael! 18:19:03 btw, another bit I wanted to ask (and IRC is better than c-r-d for this): Would anyone mind if I remove Holocaust as a randart name and add some of my own instead? 18:19:13 sure 18:20:12 dpeg: I'm (finally) implementing constriction blocks blink :) 18:20:35 * dpeg showers galehar with constricted trouts. 18:20:59 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:37 There have been pretty basic and constructive proposals for Lair on the forum. Is there need to support them or are you aware of that anyway? (Stuff like making certain monsters eligible more early etc.) 18:27:08 I brought it up a while ago, but there wasn't consensus 18:27:46 <|amethyst> evilmike: guess what 18:27:49 What's the antihalo radius around servitors? 18:27:54 |amethyst: uh oh.. 18:28:04 |amethyst: when people say that, it's never a good thing 18:28:05 <|amethyst> evilmike: in _add_connecting_escape_hatches(), the very first check is 18:28:08 I brought koboldlord's dragon's proposal, but it wasn't well received, can't remmber why 18:28:10 <|amethyst> if (branches[you.where_are_you].branch_flags & BFLAG_ISLANDED) 18:28:10 <|amethyst> return (true); 18:28:27 <|amethyst> Guess what flag swamp has 18:28:43 <|amethyst> meaning those escape hatches will never be added 18:28:55 ahhh 18:29:45 regarding lair enemies: part of the problem is that it's hard to make levels a lot different from each other, in a short branch 18:30:00 that comes up a lot 18:30:09 (Sorry to ask a rather silly question, but I'm merging servitors into Light right now. Any code regarding radius is slightly suspect because of squarelos.) 18:30:26 lol squarelos 18:30:50 I think it's really cool that light as squarelos 18:30:58 yes 18:31:08 I'm not one of those squarelos diehards, but I slightly prefer it over the DCSS style 18:31:31 I'd be cool with squarelos as long as it didn't break all the vaults in the world 18:31:34 evilmike: simply making Lair more interesting by way of monsters would already be an improvement... if that's easier than layout, why wait? 18:31:47 Do servitors really have an umbra that extends over about half the level? 18:31:59 it should be about 8 tile radius circle 18:32:10 dpeg: I don't find lair uninteresting, myself 18:32:11 dtsund: should be less than LOS 18:32:14 pretty sure it's the same size as an angel 18:32:33 unless levels in crawl lite are LOS*2 in diameter 18:32:49 evilmike: I think I agree with the fact that Lair is often too easy 18:33:00 Wensley: Code for the radius returns 40 18:33:00 hmm, it can be. Late lair at least 18:33:08 crawl light pandiving tech: lantern of shadows 18:33:14 dtsund: silent spectres have radius 150 18:33:21 or something like that 18:33:30 -!- eeviac has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:40 maybe a tile is 10 aul 18:33:41 idea for reducing crawl's length: smaller levels. Maybe the level size could have some random variations. 18:33:48 I should probably root that then 18:33:55 and density too 18:34:20 i think tiles are 5 aul 18:34:46 yeah, the 40 there definitely doesn't mean 40 squares 18:34:53 galehar: well, level size is already pretty random... sometimes you get tiny levels (I know that's not quite what you meant) 18:34:55 i think that has to do with how circlelos works 18:35:07 like, as you gain piety with tso 18:35:17 galehar: yes. As I said somewhere else, the big size has meaning early on (you can use it as a weak replacement for tools) but later on, we'd be fine with smaller levels. This is why I keep suggesting decreasing D sizes :) 18:36:10 yeah, but that doesn't need to be enforced. Maybe they could have a chance to be smaller. That way, we get to keep late D big vaults. 18:36:19 you start with a halo on yourself + the four orthogonal tiles, then the next increase is to the corners, then the next increase is orthogonally 2 away, etc 18:36:37 I think late D is a lot less boring than it used to be, also 18:37:01 I still maintain, the most boring part of crawl is post-Lair/orc, down to mid-vaults or so 18:37:10 galehar: I'm always misinterpreted there: I never spoke up against large or encompassing vaults. Just about the basic size when the builder starts. It can attach vaults of any size, of course. 18:37:11 once you hit the really deep levels, the game becomes more fun again 18:37:21 ...yeah, a direct merge would result in a hilariously big umbra. 18:40:21 Well, you'd expect the moon to have a pretty big shadow. 18:40:26 ...wait, that's not the umbra you mean, is it? 18:40:27 <_< 18:41:03 umbra just refers to shadows in general, not the moon 18:41:15 I don't get having really big levels full of goblins and kobolds and then small ones full of all the late game monsters that have ranged attacks and stuff 18:41:16 (Shh!) 18:41:18 and the moon portal vault is only a level large anyway 18:41:25 <|amethyst> Zannick, dtsund: yeah, 150 means that radius^2 = 150 18:42:11 <|amethyst> because then you can check dx^2 + dy^2 <=> radius without having to take a sqrt (and with finer control over the circle) 18:42:22 ...hmm, portal vaults with unique scrollling... 18:42:34 <|amethyst> which is of course irrelevant under squarelos 18:42:35 or rather wrap-around 18:42:44 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:48 <|amethyst> oldabyss portal vault 18:42:49 i dont think "make the old abyss a portal vault" is a good idea 18:42:53 <|amethyst> haha 18:43:09 a portal vault accessible only from new abyss 18:43:15 (Spectres don't work that way anymore in Light anyway) 18:43:18 <|amethyst> Zannick: via abyssal stairs 18:43:29 Abyss:1 18:43:32 I liked that time ragdoll actually found an abyssal stair 18:43:38 and it took him to lair:13 or something insane like that 18:43:43 hahahaha 18:43:51 sounds like something xom should do 18:44:02 they were appearing in sprint abyss for some reason 18:44:26 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros.#The_Minus_World 18:44:56 bogus lair depths are actually really cool (at least when I tried it a few versions ago). No monsters, but about half the level is fungi 18:45:44 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 18:53:19 -!- aleksil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:12 So the lair used to go that deep, but when it was cut off it just got overgrown? 19:00:07 it used to go to 10 19:00:36 at one point it was possible (not in lair afaik, but it was in Crypt) to get vaults that placed a down stair on the branch ending 19:01:38 How deep is Lair now? Someday some wiki page will feature a diagram "How Crawl shrunk" :) 19:02:10 8 19:02:11 -!- moxian has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:28 in 0.11, elf is the branch that gets to have levels cut 19:02:52 and 0.12 vaults? 19:02:58 hopefully 19:03:09 I think that's waiting on changes to monster generation 19:03:12 and crypt too? 19:03:14 evilmike: wonderful... taking it slow seems good to me. No need to rush it, as long as levels get cut. 19:03:18 aaaand... *rolls dice* 19:03:31 then swamp, snake, shoals 19:03:35 0.16 zot 19:03:42 ;) 19:03:46 0.17 d ;) 19:03:52 I think lair sub branches are good at 5 levels, especially if they can be given a better difficulty progression 19:04:08 I'm not someone who thinks crawl needs to be shorter. I just think parts of it are monotonous 19:04:44 Great deal of unlinked items upon banishment (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5866) by moxian 19:05:37 difficulty progression in snake: more greater nagas and guardian serpents? 19:05:43 evilmike: I always thought it's too easy in parts. You can combine "make shorter" with "make harder", which sounded good at the time. 19:05:53 HangedMan: more constriction 19:05:56 there is some very low monster variety in places 19:05:56 =p 19:06:26 a sane way to define monster progression would be cool, but I postponed that for 0.12 19:06:40 HangedMan: snake has a small monster set, but there's enough in to give a decent progression, imo 19:07:02 yeah 19:07:12 * HangedMan shrugs 19:07:59 I wonder, perhaps we could sneak in the removal of secret doors anyway? 19:08:12 time to sleep, see you later 19:08:15 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:05 I've mentioned, it would be much easier if we get a "runed door" with some anti-autoexplore properties, when secret doors are removed 19:09:17 it would be for vaults that use secret doors as a "stop. this room is dangerous." type of warning 19:09:32 (but without the extreme annoyance of putting a Y/N prompt on it) 19:10:28 Oh, you'll catch up to my gutting yet 19:10:28 a door that places an exclusion on itself when it comes into view 19:10:28 evilmike: I totally support the idea. Most vault could switch to runed doors, but I think a few ones use secret doors in interesting ways. Maybe it can stay. 19:10:48 Zannick: no exclusion and no prompt. Only different tile/glyph and stop autoexplore 19:10:49 st_ also mentioned that these runed doors could be made restricted (monsters don't open it until the player does) 19:11:03 I think this is a good idea. Those types of doors appear the same as regular ones right now, which is a bit bad 19:11:10 although they are very useful in designing vaults 19:11:29 or perhaps, no auto-opening 19:11:31 03galehar 07constriction * rc61c9f248c7c 10/crawl-ref/source/actor.cc: Randomize rounding in constriction damage formula. 19:11:32 03galehar 07constriction * r6bccda80ee03 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc player.h): Fix octopode usable tentacle calculation. 19:11:53 galehar: so, if the player hits o a second time they open the door? 19:12:15 i'm not sure what kind of glyph you could make that... 19:12:35 Zannick: yes. unless they put an exclusion first 19:12:38 if not + 19:12:51 galehar: that sounds pretty tedious 19:12:53 Zannick: + is completely unused save for regular and bloody doors 19:13:11 kilobyte: if you have ideas or comments on the new constriction implementation, now would be the time 19:13:25 I mean, not right now, because I'm off to bed 19:13:44 but I'll probably merge this before the end of the week 19:13:54 still on the phone, a bit hard to do decent code reviews :( 19:14:12 it would be nice to do a feature freeze then 19:14:24 still? what phone call lasts 24 hours? 19:14:26 ;) 19:14:51 kilobyte: yep, agree. Merge the constriction change and freeze 19:15:06 yeah just make the special door a yellow + 19:15:10 anyway 19:15:12 no, I mean, a for inch screen, and a keyboard barely better than one of a laptop 19:15:13 * galehar sleeps 19:15:20 s/for/four/ 19:15:28 ah ok, got it :) 19:15:46