00:01:51 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2274-g755d51e (33)
00:08:08 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r804e081d39ec 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Reduce the number of webs placed in Spider.
00:08:09 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * reb0b8fc51f78 10/crawl-ref/source/effects.cc: New formula for placing webs over time in Spider.
00:08:09 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r36999645c595 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make emperor scorpions SIZE_GIANT, allowing them to tear through webs.
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00:27:00 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2277-g3699964
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00:38:09 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r1cd23a727872 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Don't let casters pick up -Cast jewellery.
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00:48:05 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r0e5356b2fff7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint_v.des: Don't enchant zigsprint starting ammo.
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05:00:06 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2279-g0e5356b
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07:48:45 <Cheibriados> custom keybindings mislabeled in help screen (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5779) by ortoslon
07:53:09 <mrmist> Global Notice] - Our services upgrade is scheduled for 2PM UTC on Saturday.  We expect services to be unavailable for up to an hour, so please plan your channel management accordingly. Thanks for flying freenode!
07:53:25 <ChrisOelmueller> heh, nice
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08:35:16 <moxian> Just found an Ice cave entry(?) vault in lair - a patch of frozen ground with polar bears, ice dragons and such. But when I got closer to the Ice cave portal, it turned out to be a mimic! Is that intended (i.e. mimicked portals)?
08:36:14 <elliptic> yes, intended behavior :)
08:36:22 <moxian> okay, thanks
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10:34:15 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2279-g0e5356b (33)
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11:42:44 <Cheibriados> Fannar (12e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high | HD: 10 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 8 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1261 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), armour, ice beast, refrigeration, blink.

11:42:44 <Grunt> %??Fannar
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12:17:39 <kilobyte> what's exactly the point of slowmeta having three levels, with 1 and 2 being identical?
12:20:54 <elliptic> I have wondered that too... what about making slowmeta 2 be 1.5 / turn?
12:21:50 <kilobyte> perhaps; I already started changing it to a two-level mutation, but your idea could work
12:22:12 <elliptic> either way sounds fine to me
12:23:20 <kilobyte> so we need a third person to break the tie :p
12:24:57 <Grunt> How difficult would a 1.5/turn be to implement?
12:25:21 <Grunt> I think doing that would be needlessly complicated, personally.
12:25:39 <elliptic> not complicated at all
12:25:46 <elliptic> 50% chance of 1 and 50% chance of 2
12:25:48 <kilobyte> Grunt: in a stochastic or steady way?
12:26:50 <elliptic> you don't care about the hunger cost for a single turn, you care about the hunger cost for 100 turns or 1000 turns... so no reason not to randomize
12:27:03 <Grunt> I guess it would be very easy to do in that fashion...
12:27:17 <Grunt> Currently hunger rate is rather predictable and deterministic, though.
12:27:19 <elliptic> however the two-level thing is probably more natural for people who already know that base hunger is 3/turn
12:27:42 <kilobyte> for hunger, yeah.  Glow being random is problematic, though.
12:27:42 <elliptic> (spoiled people)
12:28:47 <elliptic> glow needs a different scale
12:29:07 <elliptic> instead of 6 glow giving you mutations, it should be 20 or 50 or something
12:29:45 <elliptic> impossible to come up with a decent system for it with it discretized to the extent it currently is
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13:31:50 <kilobyte> MarvinPA_: slowmeta: should we: a) make it a two-level mutation (my idea, ok-ed by elliptic), or b) make slowmeta2 set base hunger to 1.5 (elliptic's idea, ok-ed by me)?
13:32:31 <kilobyte> it makes zero sense for the mutation to have three levels but do nothing on 2nd, just to satisfy the old requirement of all mutations having exactly three levels
13:32:48 <MarvinPA_> hmm
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13:32:56 <MarvinPA> either sounds fine to me too :P
13:33:01 <MarvinPA> i guess i'd go with 2 levels maybe
13:33:39 <kilobyte> ok
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14:59:44 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * rcebdf43632be 10/crawl-ref/source/util/db_lint: db_lint: warn on blank descriptions.
14:59:44 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r19ea89271398 10/crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc: Fix acquirement never creating rods.
14:59:45 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * rd5a188581d94 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: A bunch of descs for vault renames.
14:59:46 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r3ac1c05234fc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h ng-setup.cc player.cc tags.cc): Make slowmeta a two-level mutation (old level 2 of 3 did nothing).
14:59:46 <CIA-50> 03kilobyte * r4a4cf7e5459c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/dummy.des: Reduce dummy vault balancers.
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15:30:11 <Grunt> !tell evilmike Just played through the tweaked version of guppyfry_spider_rune in my game in progress; it seems to work considerably better.
15:30:13 <Henzell> Grunt: OK, I'll let evilmike know.
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15:39:07 <HangedMan> tiny note: mon-util.cc line 440 lists kraken tentacle segments but not eldritch tentacle segments
15:41:32 <|amethyst> let's see what git blame says
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15:43:07 <|amethyst> oh
15:43:18 <|amethyst> eldreitch tentacles (not segments though) do give XP
15:43:22 <|amethyst> s/eit/it/
15:43:41 <HangedMan> thus why I specified tentacle segments
15:44:52 <|amethyst> should they?
15:45:27 <|amethyst> hm, or they always counted as summoned
15:45:55 <|amethyst> and killing the segments works?
15:46:16 <HangedMan> killing segments kills the whole tentacle, yeah
15:48:29 <|amethyst> ...
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15:48:50 <|amethyst> why oh why is all the eldritch vs kraken code duplicated for each case?
15:49:36 <HangedMan> because tentacles are worse then clinging and constriction combined?
15:49:47 <evilmike> HangedMan: are you trying to place tentacle segments in a vault again?
15:49:47 <Henzell> evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
15:49:54 <ChrisOelmueller> hah
15:50:03 <HangedMan> no, I just remembered a mantis bug of mine with spatial vortexes
15:50:18 <evilmike> I've said before that you shouldn't use those. It's the segment of a tentacle, by itself it should die. If you really want tentacles sticking out of the ground, a new monster would make more sense
15:50:25 <evilmike> some kind of bizarre form of abyss fauna
15:51:01 <HangedMan> while that would be wonderful I was just annoyed that a passable roulette strategy was digging open the grates, letting silver statues summon some demons, then hope wandering demons attack the tentacle segments
15:51:34 <HangedMan> instead of actually fighting said horrible combo or running away from tons of demons
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15:55:57 <|amethyst> for example, is there a reason that mons_relocated kills the base first for eldritch tentacles but last (with a check) for kraken tentacles?
15:56:12 <|amethyst> they were written by the same author 9 days apart
15:56:26 <|amethyst> well
15:57:12 <|amethyst> actually, I the kraken code was rewritten, then the eldritch code written differently 9 days later
15:57:33 <|amethyst> However, I am terrified of touching the things
15:57:48 <Zannick> it might constrict you
15:58:52 <HangedMan> or blink you!
15:58:55 <alefury> no, fortunately it is too big to do that. Wait, did I say fortunately?
15:59:15 <|amethyst> too big to constrict you
15:59:33 <ChrisOelmueller> i'd rather expect an unhealthy amount of paralysis
15:59:35 <alefury> thats from the kraken description. or maybe tentacle description :)
15:59:36 <|amethyst> has nobody seen fantasy seagoing movies?
16:00:14 <|amethyst> sure, they'll wreck a ship, but they'll always grab a few extras first for dramatic effect
16:00:31 <Zannick> redshirts, etc.
16:00:39 <|amethyst> or maybe some poor drunkard you were starting to feel sorry for
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17:02:07 <Cheibriados> Crash when trying to go up stairs (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5780) by smock
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18:41:37 <nfogravity> hey, i got another angel with a sacred scourge of holy wrath on d:9
18:41:39 <nfogravity> that seems wrong
18:42:20 <evilmike> was it in a zig entry vault?
18:42:40 <nfogravity> yes
18:42:44 <nfogravity> no wait
18:42:46 <nfogravity> zin altar
18:43:21 <nfogravity> cao, i'm there right now
18:43:49 <Grunt> It's trapped in there, nfogravity.
18:43:51 <evilmike> i suppose it could be generated with no item, if it's a problem
18:43:58 <nfogravity> no shit, grunt
18:44:16 <nfogravity> it's a problem because it's a post-endgame capable weapon that can generate on d:9, or earlier
18:44:20 <Grunt> ...and here I thought you were complaining about it chasing you around or something.
18:44:38 <nfogravity> i know this is a problem because i've heard other people complain about it repeatedly as a balance issue
18:44:41 <evilmike> well, it's a extended endgame weapon, but before that point it's probably not as good as other brands
18:44:52 <nfogravity> it's still a d:9 ss
18:45:27 <evilmike> fyi, the vault you are inside now can also contain top-tier weapons
18:45:45 <evilmike> a bit weaker, I think it has a chance of an eveningstar though
18:45:50 <nfogravity> i saw one
18:47:00 <evilmike> just seems like a case of good luck to me. gda on d:1 and all that. I can understand the argument agains that, though
18:47:36 <nfogravity> i have no opinion on it, i just know that someone was actively trying to remove them before
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18:49:41 <evilmike> I'm not a fan of just handing out top-tier items (unless it's extremely rare). It doesn't bother me if it's guarded by a high level enemy, though
18:51:21 <nfogravity> doesn't matter now, extraordinarily bad luck on d:10
18:51:24 <nfogravity> oh well
18:52:11 <nfogravity> yeah, i think the argument is that it's a high-level enemy that you can engage on very favorable terms
18:53:20 <nfogravity> (come down the stairs, instantly paralyzed and stung by bees, teleport into three electric eels)
18:53:29 <evilmike> nice
18:53:35 <evilmike> at least you can't smite it to death any more :P
18:53:41 <nfogravity> haha that's true
18:53:59 <evilmike> how'd you get paralyzed instantly?
18:54:03 <nfogravity> eyeball
18:54:46 <nfogravity> not sure what i could have done better, but oh well
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18:56:20 <evilmike> for that to have happened, the level must have been awake already... which means you either did something like stair-danced, or went down one stair, back up, and down another
18:57:16 <nfogravity> i did
18:57:27 <nfogravity> the previous downstairs had three orc priests
18:57:32 <HangedMan> alternatively, shaft shapeshifters
19:03:03 <nfogravity> also, d:2 giant frog, what
19:03:16 <nfogravity> i refuse to believe that the ood code is what it used to be
19:03:25 <evilmike> d:2 giant frog isn't too extraordinary
19:03:41 <evilmike> trust me, those have been possible for a long time. And yeah, they're nasty
19:03:48 <evilmike> still doesn't beat the infamous d:2 centaur
19:03:51 <Grunt> evilmike won't be happy until we can get D:1 aliches or something.
19:03:58 <Grunt> <____<
19:04:47 <evilmike> a while ago someone got a d:8 tentacled montrosity somehow (was not mummy scumming, either)
19:04:59 <evilmike> I don't know how that happened and I'd be happy if that was fixed
19:05:19 <nfogravity> there is an old ttyrec of someone dying to a d:1 orc priest right outside the entrance
19:05:29 <Grunt> That was danharaj, IIRC.  I was watching the game when it came up.
19:05:41 <Grunt> (The tentmons, that is.)
19:08:14 <nfogravity> also new challenge: enter the temple when you first see it, then systematically worship and abandon every god in there except one
19:08:22 <evilmike> there used to be an entry vault w/ orc priests
19:08:25 <evilmike> was fixed a while ago
19:08:32 <HangedMan> cave to civilization?
19:08:33 <nfogravity> yeah hopefully that was removed
19:08:44 <evilmike> the vault still exists, it's just not insane any more
19:09:12 <HangedMan> ??challenge[24]
19:09:13 <Henzell> challenge[24/28]: Win a game in which all temple gods (including those in overflow altars) are abandoned before XL 10. You must play a version without wrath dilution (i.e. 0.11-a).
19:09:19 <evilmike> Grunt: do you have any idea where it came from? the map file didn't reveal any vault that I could se
19:09:20 <evilmike> e
19:09:21 <HangedMan> starting to lean into ##crawl discussion
19:09:26 <nfogravity> yeah sorry sorry
19:09:30 <Grunt> I have no idea.
19:12:37 <jtrucks> Global Notice] - A reminder that at 2PM UTC on Saturday we have our long awaited services upgrade and database prune.  All nicks unused for 150 days or more will be dropped from the database.  Please make sure you have identified to your accounts and used your grouped nicks before the upgrade begins. Thank you!
19:13:05 <jtrucks> Global Notice] - Our services upgrade is scheduled for 2PM UTC on Saturday.  We expect services to be unavailable for up to an hour, so please plan your channel management accordingly. Thank you!
19:19:10 <Cheibriados> Saving the game with 128+ MP leads to negative MP on load (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5781) by crate
19:19:27 <Henzell> OrangeXP the Executioner (L20 MiBe) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed on turn 67435. (Shoals:5)
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21:31:57 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r35c9e6028cc5 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Don't crash when loading a level with detected items.
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21:51:16 <evilmike> Grunt: I'm getting crashes in your fire pits vaults. Place one of the vaults on a level, walk up to it so things start burning, then go to a different level (using &> works)
21:51:27 <evilmike> Grunt: crawl just exits. no crash message or anything like that, frustratingly
21:51:33 * Grunt grumbles.
21:51:52 <evilmike> I've got no clue why it's happening, sorry. I'd like to hear if you can reproduce it though
21:52:35 <Grunt> lua_marker::write error: [...]/dat/dlua/luamark.lua:115: Cannot marshall userdata
21:53:02 <evilmike> hmm, strange that I wasn't seeing that
21:53:57 <Grunt> If that's the case, I know what's causing the problem:
21:54:11 <evilmike> oh, good
21:54:28 <Grunt> Part of the code for the flaming corpse effect depends on tracking the monster (so that it knows where it's supposed to generate the corpse).
21:54:40 <Grunt> ...and the code for saving the level can't handle a monster being part of the local data.
21:54:48 <Grunt> *local Lua data
21:55:21 <evilmike> I'm getting this even without flaming corpses (eg place the vault on d:2)
21:55:32 <Grunt> That crash was generated on D:2.
21:55:56 <Grunt> It's all handled the same basic way (it only actually generates the corpse if the player's in Gehenna).
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22:12:50 <evilmike> Well, other than that the vaults are good. The only concern I have is grunt_gehenna_stairs_fire_pit has a lot of monsters (which means a lot of messages), and the burn victims sometimes get lost in all of that
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22:19:11 <Grunt> I think I have an alternate solution just about working.
22:22:41 <Grunt> evilmike, there's a v3 attached to the Mantis entry now.
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22:36:02 <Patashu> we've decided there should be a xom enchantment that makes you breath bees on attacking
22:36:04 <Patashu> or bleed bees when hit
22:36:05 <Patashu> or something
22:36:25 <Grunt> Perhaps bees -> butterflies.
22:36:31 <Grunt> That sounds like something Xom would do <_<
22:36:57 <Grunt> Which reminds me; I've been meaning to do up a Xom altar with a cloud of seething chaos, in the spirit of the Vehument flame cloud altar.
22:37:01 <Grunt> >_>
22:37:05 <Grunt> *Vehumet
22:37:13 <Patashu> haha
22:37:16 <Patashu> xom: needs more altars
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22:40:01 <moxian> Why can halfings/spriggans throw spears, but cannot throw javelins? It seems to me that spears are bigger and are generally harder to throw, aren't they?
22:50:18 <moxian> ... or should I probably refrain from such questions in ##crawl-dev?
22:51:25 <Grunt> You'd probably be better off poking someone by name, or starting a discussion on Tavern, or filing an issue on Mantis.
22:51:33 <Grunt> (Unless there's activity here, which there isn't at the moment.)
22:53:02 <moxian> hmm.. Okay, thanks.
22:57:58 <evilmike> xom definitely has a lot of altars, but its easy to fix that: just give them a uniq_foo tag so you can only get one per game
22:58:18 <evilmike> all the overflow ones already do that
22:59:20 <evilmike> moxian: i guess there are two answers to your question. (1) javelins are actually bigger than spears, and spriggans are just too small to throw them. (2) it's a weird inconsistency
22:59:39 <evilmike> i cant tell you which one it is. if it's (2), then maybe they should be allowed to throw javelins, but with massive penalties
23:03:04 <moxian> quick google says that (in real world) javelins are no longer than even the shortest spears. So I suppose it either (2), or we claim crawl to be set in an entirely different world
23:04:15 <moxian> On a different note, can we forbid them using polearms alltogether?
23:05:01 <evilmike> no. spriggans are allowed to use small to medium sized weapons. some polearms fall under that category
23:05:22 <evilmike> some of them are used as 2-handed when wielded by spriggans
23:05:52 <Eronarn> it makes way more sense for spriggans to throw javelins than it does for spriggans to wield bows or staves
23:05:55 <Eronarn> so just go for it
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23:07:46 <Cheibriados> New map layout(s) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5782) by infiniplex
23:08:37 <evilmike> cool, map layouts are rare
23:08:44 <evilmike> infiniplex rules
23:10:21 * Grunt goes to have a look.
23:10:25 <Gretell> Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2285-g35c9e60
23:15:00 <Patashu> wow, it looks really complicated
23:15:17 <Grunt> The results are kind of interesting.
23:15:20 <Grunt> Certainly different.
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