00:00:19 <|amethyst> non-damaging constriction would need to be implemented first 00:01:22 <|amethyst> well, not necessarily, but it kind of silly if you can't resist being pulled, but then can move normally when it's your turn 00:01:41 <|amethyst> s/it /it would be / 00:01:50 then again it's also kind of silly for a single turn of being drowned to really damage you, isn't it 00:01:58 going without air for a few seconds probably shouldn't cause grievous bodily harm 00:02:14 you get all that water in your lungs, maybe bonk your head against the bottom a little 00:02:24 nicolae-: btw, I think a monster that splits when you kill it could be fun. Either like a reverse slime creature or maybe something more like a hydra 00:02:29 <|amethyst> it's waterboarding without the cloth 00:02:46 exponential hydra. doubles the heads when you cut one off. 00:03:29 evilmike: why not giant amoebas, they don't do anything else 00:03:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:03:33 nicolae-: one thing I think is that it shouldn't punish melee users though. What if there was a monster that absorbs magic and clones itself with that? It would still take damage from spells 00:03:47 giant amoebas leave corpses 00:04:11 just a random idea for now. I just don't like how every new monster ability can be defeated by "stand back and cast spells at it" 00:04:32 a magic-immune monster that reflects your beam spells back at you 00:04:51 something like that was proposed for crystal golems 00:05:17 did it get shot down for reasons or is it just another idea that nobody bothered to code 00:05:24 the problem is, that's really just punishing a lack of spoiler knowledge 00:05:42 "always reflects spells" is the same as "is immune to spells" but with added punishment 00:06:09 couldn't you just say "this being has a chance to reflect beams cast at it" in the description 00:06:13 so, if a monster had that, it would be best if it (a) wasn't that resistant to things, and (b) only reflected a certain % of attacks 00:06:25 monsters with shields of reflection work well 00:07:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:27 -!- Heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:34 good point 00:10:01 hm. a monster that learns every spell it sees you cast. 00:11:15 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:11:21 -!- Heteroy_ is now known as Heteroy 00:11:22 It's called "Mara" 00:11:32 oh, right, damn. 00:11:44 (Not really, but close enough.) 00:12:46 thinking up monsters is harder than it seems. 00:14:01 mwahahahamara 00:14:35 what's the best monster. 00:14:40 I could use some ideas for really evil endgame monsters, though. 00:14:50 what branch? 00:14:53 Zot. 00:14:57 nicolae-: mara is my favourite monster in the game... but uniques can get away with a lot crazier stuff than normal monsters 00:15:13 Specifically, for Zot in the upcoming hard-mode in Light. 00:15:29 i think a good idea is to look for boring monsters and thinking of ways to improve them. someone mentioned giant ameobas a few minutes ago 00:15:46 yeah but that guy was an asshole 00:15:55 also i recently wrote down some ideas for deep trolls (pretty simple stuff, aside from needing a new "mass healing" spell) 00:16:05 dtsund: hm, how evil are we talking here. item destruction? 00:16:24 evilmike: :DDDD 00:16:28 One of my ideas is "ancient lich, but moreso" 00:16:36 dtsund: could give it level 8/9 spells :P 00:16:39 give amoebas chaos attacks 00:16:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(genus) 00:16:44 Primordial Lich 00:16:53 evilmike: Oh, it's going to have Storm and Summon Greater and Haste, at least. 00:16:59 Er. Foo Storm. 00:17:09 dtsund: how about adding old haste as a new "greater haste" spell 00:17:13 or even "mass haste" 00:17:24 evilmike: Haste in CL is 75% boost anyway. 00:17:37 ChrisOelmueller: sounds too similar to chaos spawn 00:17:38 I feel justified keeping it there, because it's much harder to spam it than in SS. 00:17:39 @??chaos spawn 00:17:39 chaos spawn (113) | Spd: 11 | Int: animal | HD: 6 | HP: 22-44 | AC/EV: 7/12 | Dam: 2109(chaos) | Fl: 05demonic, see invisible | Res: 06magic(56), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 198. 00:18:12 dtsund: well, mass haste is still an option 00:18:19 Mass Haste is an interesting one. 00:18:21 soul (L23 SpEn) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: deep dwarf) (Abyss) 00:18:24 it would be extremely nasty... the lich would get hasted along with whatever else it summons, or is nearby 00:18:35 if you code something like that, i think DCSS should steal it 00:18:40 (The new Light glow mechanics have made me actually regret casting Haste on several occasions.) 00:20:32 But anyway, the idea is that once a player decides to enter hardmode at roughly the halfway mark, it should be extended-endgame-nasty. I need Zot and Hell to still be especially... exciting... after that. 00:20:47 I have ideas for Hell, but need some Zot monsters. 00:21:05 <|amethyst> "void" 00:21:19 <|amethyst> eats everything, burrows through walls, always knows where you are 00:21:26 blank frog 00:21:26 dtsund: why not just change how monsters spawn in zot? Like, draconian bands could be made up entirely of classed draconians 00:21:33 <|amethyst> like the Serpent of Chaos in ZAngband 00:21:36 even in extended, that kind of draconian pack would be horrible 00:21:42 moth with an aura that reduces your skills 00:21:58 evilmike: I'll be doing that sort of thing too, yeah. 00:22:08 you could also change the layout of zot:5 by increasing the number of monsters, and makign the vault full-level 00:22:18 Well, Zot:3. 00:22:24 if you want to get really nasty, make it so the stairs becomed sealed until you pick up the orb 00:22:40 damn. 00:23:05 |amethyst: I think cacodemons used to be like that in ancient Crawl. 00:24:20 a spell like banishment that sends you to hell or pandemonium 00:25:09 <|amethyst> @?? orb spider name:greater n_adj hd:27 00:25:09 greater orb spider (06s) | Spd: 12 (spell: 200%) | Int: insect | HD: 27 | HP: 151-203 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 504(medium poison) | Fl: web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(216) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 11161 | Sp: destruction orb (8d20), cantrip. 00:25:18 if you want it to be hard, just make it so every monster is guaranteed to be something that's dangerous 00:25:24 so no death cobs or flayed ghosts or whatever 00:25:30 if you want a "greater orb" enemy, give it that legendary orb card spell 00:25:35 <|amethyst> haha 00:25:39 it could be a unique or something 00:25:45 or maybe boris could get it 00:25:49 What, OODs in all eight directions? 00:25:51 <|amethyst> not sure that's so useful against the player 00:26:03 It would be if they're all homing 00:26:12 won't a bunch of them bonk together and explode though 00:26:23 <|amethyst> yeah, possibly close to the caster 00:26:27 True, but it's still an amusing picture 00:26:58 oh, definitely. a kamikaze monster that puts down 8 orbs and then becomes an orb itself and you've got a big cloud of orbs coming for you 00:27:07 self-replicating iood 00:27:16 anyway, once moths of mundanity are in game, vaults/zot will be much more dangerous 00:27:22 as, without warning, any shifter can become a moth of mundanity 00:27:23 :) 00:27:34 @??moth of mundanity 00:27:35 unknown monster: "moth of mundanity" 00:27:38 ??moth of mundanity 00:27:38 I don't have a page labeled moth_of_mundanity in my learndb. 00:27:40 ??suppression 00:27:40 suppression[1/5]: While under this effect, all magical item properties that require the item to be equipped are nullified. Evocables that must be equipped in order to evoke them are rendered inoperable. Effects that occur when items are equipped/unequipped (vampirism, distortion, etc.) happen as usual. 00:27:41 <|amethyst> @??moth of suppression 00:27:41 moth of suppression (09y) | 04UNFINISHED | Spd: 12 | Int: insect | HD: 9 | HP: 34-66 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 25 | Fl: fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 504. 00:28:34 Maybe allow orbs of fire with silent specter backup 00:28:40 not as good as a shifter being able to become a silent spectre, but good enough 00:28:44 Patashu: they're not supposed to spawn in Vault or Zot 00:28:46 yes, zot needs silent spectres obviously 00:28:50 orbs of fire that have silence auras 00:28:56 evilmike: but can't shifters turn into anything living 00:28:57 although, the effect might be given to a monster in the form of a spell 00:29:03 Patashu: FWIW, Light's silent specters work differently 00:29:03 no shapeshifters in Zot 00:29:12 Orb of Mennas 00:29:18 So it wouldn't be a death sentence or anything to get caught near one with an orb of fire 00:29:21 spells: polymorph other, silence, minor healing 00:29:40 how do they work in crawl light? 00:29:52 A bit more fragile, move like bats, cast Silence instead of permanent aura 00:30:04 Also can spawn in skelewarrior bands 00:30:06 orb of vacuum. with a vacuum aura. silence, destroys clouds, negates flight, and causes asphyxiation damage 00:30:07 ah, I like that 00:30:18 They tend to detatch themselves from the pack, glom onto you, and prevent you from casting 00:30:21 dtsund: if you want to make zot nastier, add orbs of other elements 00:30:28 Oh, and I nerfed their physical attack for obvious reasons 00:30:30 with similar spells. You'd need an "iceball" spell 00:30:53 panlord standing on the orb, so you can't ninja it 00:30:58 orb of elec 00:31:00 evilmike: Oh, indeed, that was one of my other ideas. 00:31:06 Except they wouldn't need Iceball. 00:31:10 the point being, you need high resists for everything. Orbs of fire are pretty easy with rf+++, and you dont need other resists much for zot 00:31:11 They can just use Ice Storm. 00:31:25 Well, rElec. 00:31:38 you can get away with 2 or 3 potions of resistance 00:31:41 quasielemental orbs. magma orb. blizzard orb. mud orb. smoke orb. 00:32:55 what if there were a bunch of hard zot uniques, and one of them was guaranteed to appear in the zot:5 vault 00:33:05 could make tiamat more common 00:33:06 Ignacio 00:33:16 (this could be done for DCSS as well. I have something like 60 wins and I've seen tiamat like twice) 00:33:31 Tiamat isn't exactly hard, though 00:33:49 @??tiamat 00:33:50 Tiamat (16d) | Spd: 10 | Int: high (items) | HD: 22 | HP: 380 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Dam: 60, 45 | Fl: cold-blooded, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(146), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 13593 | Sp: b.lightning (3d25) / b.quicksilver (3d20) / cold breath (3d28) / fire breath (3d28) / poisonous cloud (3d13). 00:33:51 @??orb of fire 00:33:51 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | Int: normal | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Fl: 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), polymorph other, fireball (3d43). 00:33:56 she gets an absurdly large draconian band and has one of the strongest melee attacks in the game 00:34:08 Oh, okay. 00:34:14 Never fought Tiamat in melee. 00:34:23 how about if tiamat cheated and knew what breath type would damage you the most 00:34:26 60,45 + whatever weapon she has 00:34:31 (and used quicksilver if you had buffs up) 00:35:21 Wait, since when did Tiamat see invisible? 00:35:48 I could've sworn my last Tiamat kill was me going invisible and shanking her. 00:36:21 <|amethyst> @? tiamat 00:36:21 Tiamat (16d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 22 | Health: 380 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Damage: 60, 45 | Flags: cold-blooded, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(146), 02cold, 03poison | XP: 13593 | Sp: b.lightning (3d25) / b.quicksilver (3d20) / cold breath (3d28) / fire breath (3d28) / poisonous cloud (3d13). 00:36:31 yeah, that's interesting. I bet she's had that forever 00:36:44 Maybe I just lucked out. 00:36:45 that's not bad though, it makes her a lot more dangerous 00:42:31 Hm. Could probably add an enemy that inflicts glow at a distance. 00:44:32 glow in the dark moth 00:47:18 Moth of Mass Haste would be a fun one 01:07:45 <|amethyst> damnation does not occur in plain emergency, 1/5 as common as the other cards in ornate emergency, and 2/5 as common as the other cards in legendary emergency 01:07:48 <|amethyst> doh 01:18:50 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:26 -!- jle_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:33 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:56 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:08 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:23 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:46 Fun bug: dtsund the Chopper (L2 MDBe) became the Champion of Trog on turn 361. (D:1) 02:05:01 how does that work 02:05:19 Implemented LOS-sacrificing 02:05:29 Last-minute refactor made corpses not actually vanish 02:05:46 so you just sacrificed everything in LOS a zillion times 02:06:01 Fixed, but active on the server still 02:06:33 is LOS saccing automatic or do you still have to pray, just not while standing on a guy 02:06:39 The latter. 02:08:18 neat 02:09:08 auto-corpse-magic is the gold god thing 02:09:35 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:09:45 right, they all turn into gold 02:12:08 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:00 dtsund:bwahaha 02:28:36 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:18 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:58 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:29 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 02:40:01 -!- roctavian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:21 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:26:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:22 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:12 Happy New Year! 03:46:18 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:13:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:18:28 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 04:25:19 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:10 !learn add alefury player tile overlays 04:34:11 alefury[2/2]: player tile overlays 04:48:40 kilobyte * 318f122189fd (1 changed): Let the Abyss stress bot have vaults. 04:48:40 kilobyte * ec5614216bcd (1 changed): Remove an obsolete special case. 04:48:40 kilobyte * d760d44f3154 (3 changed): Drop an useless property. 04:48:40 kilobyte * ba1552d045de (1 changed): Increase the absdepth of Elf. 04:50:03 rath the Conqueror (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: draconian caller) (Abyss) 04:55:36 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:44 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:40 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1688-gd5bb0a1 05:14:28 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:07 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:00:16 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:54 HP miscount is back, with possibly new triggers (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5639) by Kyrris 06:22:51 does anyone here know how to configure ccache in msysgit? its included, i just dont know how to make it actually be used. :( 06:25:48 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:43:53 -!- jle has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:56 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:45 rath the Farming Conqueror (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: shining eye) (Abyss) 07:10:15 rath the Farming Conqueror (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: large simulacrum) (Abyss) 07:11:32 rath the Farming Conqueror (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: neqoxec) (Abyss) 07:13:06 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:13:37 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:14:03 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:14:27 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:15:10 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:16:35 Teron (L27 MiFi) ASSERT(levels_seen <= (unsigned long) branches[branch].depth) in 'place-info.cc' at line 55 failed. (Slime:6) 07:39:42 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:33 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:59 -!- headz0ne has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:51 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:55:22 can regular mummies please be removed from zig mummy floors? 07:55:49 they do have some tactical implications (such as making distortion unwield harder to use, and also preventing other swapping), but they are just incredibly annoying 07:56:18 or at least provide some guaranteed ?RC 07:57:06 also, DDoor + disto unwield is pretty crazy in zigs 07:57:48 at least you return to the same spot when you leave the abyss 07:59:20 dealing with curses is a good part of zig 07:59:29 "good". really? 07:59:33 yep 07:59:51 it can be a big part of zig, but i dont think its a good part. 08:00:02 i think its fucking horrible 08:00:13 mummy curses are a big deal when they hit your distortion weapon or some other useful swap 08:00:29 i will concede that it is very, very annoying to uncurse all your stuff though, especially jewellery 08:00:54 maybe reading ?rC when none of your equipped stuff could uncurse some of your unequipped items? 08:01:03 same reason why I think curses are good in hell 08:01:25 they actually can make an interesting tactical situation 08:01:27 how about mummies only cursing equipped items? 08:01:39 still prevents swapping, and can be removed with a single ?RC 08:01:45 cursing unequipped stuff is important because it makes swapping difficult 08:01:59 less difficult than cursing equipped stuff... 08:02:01 it's not about swapping from stuff, but swapping to it 08:02:10 if you cant swap from it, you cant swap to it 08:02:10 the biggest effect is distortion weapons 08:02:14 nokkonen (L2 OgHu) (D:1) 08:03:30 realistically both your disto weapon and your wielded weapon will be cursed on a late mummy floor, so cursing only equipped stuff would reduce cost by one turn and one ?RC/EW 08:03:41 that one turn is huge 08:03:51 with ddoor? not really... 08:04:09 although i suppose thats a different problem 08:04:12 well, not counting players with ddoor. it's extremely powerful, but not all that common 08:04:24 ddoor in zig is not that common? 08:05:17 well, i like it a lot. i dont see people use it much when i spectate them though 08:05:33 usually people tend to just die instead 08:05:51 ddoor disto unwield saved my ass on that mummy floor btw :) 08:06:01 yeah, its a good combo 08:06:35 never used ddoor before actually, i was surprised about how incredibly long it lasts 08:06:50 i could honestly see ddoor being a level 9 spell, i dont think thats necessary though 08:07:19 its more fun at 8... easier to use on a hybrid 08:07:54 alefury: i guess you never used ddoor when it was possible to chain cast it, huh? :P 08:08:12 no, it sounds pretty broken without exhaustion 08:08:20 yeah 08:08:34 someone (ebarrett I think) used to abuse it a lot 08:34:52 !seen galehar 08:34:53 I last saw galehar at Fri May 4 16:38:37 2012 UTC (20h 56m 16s ago) joining the channel. 08:47:27 Item buggily placed in feature again, now with a more informative error message. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5640) by Kyrris 08:54:09 make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.6.3/../../../../include/c++/4.6.3/cassert', needed by `tool/tile_colour.o'. Stop. 08:54:38 What's up with this? 08:57:22 <|amethyst> ghallberg: your compiler changed recently? 08:57:31 <|amethyst> ghallberg: try rm rltiles/tool/tile_colour.d 08:57:38 <|amethyst> or just a make clean 08:59:48 <|amethyst> I guess probably rltools/Makefile should use -MMD instead of -MD 09:00:07 <|amethyst> so that system headers aren't mentioned in the .d files 09:06:23 why are travel stoppers so messed up? 09:06:32 travel doesnt stop on confirming a more prompt for example 09:06:54 and i cant seem to get runrest stoppers to work properly 09:07:18 <|amethyst> one issue with the message stoppers is capitalization 09:07:46 it is correct 09:07:57 adding a more prompt to the same message works perfectly 09:08:02 <|amethyst> hm 09:08:59 <|amethyst> did it stop working recently? 09:09:16 i only added it 5 minutes ago, it never worked for me 09:09:31 well, 20 minutes ago, the rest i was trying to get it to work 09:10:12 <|amethyst> recompiling for something else now, but what's the exact line you're using? 09:10:16 thats the line btw: stop = Your transformation is almost over 09:10:16 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 09:10:46 n78 said it might matter where i put it 09:11:08 <|amethyst> starting with "stop =" ? 09:11:26 yes, after stop := runrest_stop_message 09:12:25 it doesnt work if i directly use runrest_stop_message either 09:12:51 _you_vault_list overflows (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5641) by KiloByte 09:13:59 !tell SamB do you remember what's the reason PCH=y is not the default? It shortens compiles a good bit, but no one ever remembers about it... 09:13:59 kilobyte: OK, I'll let SamB know. 09:17:11 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:37 ah, i put the line in the wrong place, i cant put it in the file with additional options i load via command line... 09:17:45 guess ill have to overwrite init.txt after all 09:18:00 kilobyte * 616a9814811c (1 changed): Don't let 8/9 glyphs request OODs on a level without OOD data. 09:20:24 <|amethyst> ah, "This only works if runrest.lua has already been sourced" 09:20:42 <|amethyst> maybe the order isn't what you wanted? 09:21:01 |amethyst: so the question is: should we source runrest.lua automatically or source runrest.lua automatically? 09:21:22 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'd go with the latter, but there are strong arguments for the former as well 09:21:54 I only wonder whether to move it from dat/lua/ so people don't try to include it the old way or not 09:22:12 |amethyst: the problem was i had put it after including runrest_messages.txt, which doesnt work for some reason 09:22:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what happens if you try including something that's missing? 09:22:41 a non-fatal error message 09:22:58 <|amethyst> hm 09:23:01 like the one with pickup.lua for folks who didn't update their config file 09:23:19 it could be good to remove ALL non-commented out options at once, though 09:24:35 on the other hand, leaving these files in dat/lua/ would make existing configs redundantly include the files twice, which should be harmless 09:24:51 <|amethyst> I was thinking replace them with empt files in dat/lua 09:25:10 almost harmless: setting an option before it is initialized would probably make them overwritten 09:25:11 <|amethyst> in case something isn't idempotent 09:25:18 oh, good idea 09:25:30 make clean seemed to help thanks |amethyst 09:25:51 <|amethyst> ghallberg: I'll be committing a fix in a moment 09:26:02 <|amethyst> ghallberg: to keep that from happening in the future 09:27:41 building building... 09:28:10 |amethyst * 1cf8799cbbbe (1 changed): Do not include system headers in rltiles .d files. 09:28:10 |amethyst * 78274e4f878f (1 changed): Make a debugging message more verbose. 09:31:33 <|amethyst> Is there any way for a clua script to submit a command for processing rather than a key? 09:31:49 <|amethyst> I'm wondering if anything can be done about 5634 (Autofight with tab doesn't work properly if vi keys are disabled.) 09:36:17 make targeting and movement directly accessible via lua so theyre not needed 09:36:31 -!- bhaak is now known as nobody` 09:36:36 -!- nobody` is now known as bhaak 09:36:37 would speed up reaching autofight too 09:36:44 -!- bhaak is now known as registered 09:36:48 -!- registered is now known as bhaak 10:05:54 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:49 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 10:27:29 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1695-g1cf8799 (33) 10:33:05 <|amethyst> N78291 says of guppyfry_spider_rune: seems like you only need to clear a small part of it to get the rune 10:56:16 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:35 its randomly placed, and the water aspect of it doesnt work great 11:03:52 when moths of mundanity go in the endings will need to be overhauled or just rebuilt from scratch, anyway 11:06:37 ??suppression[5] 11:06:38 suppression[5/5]: TODO: suppress evocable abilities; suppress\/defer equip messages; handle fixedarts; needs to affect monsters too 11:06:48 evilmike: let me know what the minimal amount of features are to put these things in the game 11:07:02 like, I don't think that we need to affect monsters to start making vaults with it 11:07:12 because arachne is the only thing in the branch that uses items 11:07:23 uniques too 11:07:43 right, but are there any nest vaults with !arachne uniques 11:07:54 but yes, starting with just the player is alright for initial testing 11:08:05 also, support for fixedarts can probably trickle in over time 11:08:47 even the message suppression isn't vital, as long as it makes it in before the full release 11:08:57 so really I think I just need to suppress evocable abilities 11:09:04 <|amethyst> Wensley_: grep -B1 Spider dat/des/builder/uniques.de | grep NAME 11:09:11 <|amethyst> uniques.des 11:09:38 uniques.de is the german translation of uniques.des 11:09:58 Sigmund -> Zeigmund 11:09:59 <|amethyst> it just swaps "Jozef" and "Joseph" 11:10:46 <|amethyst> maybe something inappropriate like changing "Frances" to "Vichy" 11:11:03 need a tranlation for the Royal Jelly 11:11:14 but! it needs to preserve the TRJ abbreviation 11:11:16 go 11:18:37 MarvinPA: you use windows, right? do you know how to use ccache with msysgit? 11:23:24 alefury: use msysgit's ssh to connect to a linux server 11:23:35 very funny 11:23:42 I'll be here all night 11:24:17 ccache is included, i just dont know how to set it up 11:25:50 <|amethyst> is there a directory like /usr/lib/ccache with 'gcc' symlinks? 11:26:13 <|amethyst> not sure how it's packaged for msysgit 11:26:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:17 <|amethyst> the usualy method is putting a directory with symlinks 'gcc' 'g++' 'cc' etc to ccache in your PATH, ahead of wherever the real gcc is 11:28:29 <|amethyst> s/ly/l/ 11:30:16 <|amethyst> (use make V=1 to find out the exact name being used to call the compiler; here it's i486-linux-gnu-g++ . You need that symlink in particular) 11:32:45 <|amethyst> alternatively you could edit the makefile and change GCC := $(LMACH)$(GCC_VER_.... to GCC := ccache $(LMACH)$(GCC_VER_.... 11:37:15 -!- ais523 has quit [] 11:38:57 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:48 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:56 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:42:53 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:50:34 my main problem is that i have no idea what a symlink is 11:50:38 and how to make one :/ 11:51:12 alefury: a symlink is basically a pointer in the filesystem, whenever something tries to refer to the symlink, and it isn't specifically designed to handle symlinks specially, it refers to the file the symlink is pointing to 11:51:23 and the pointer is just an absolute path, or a path relative to the symlink itself 11:51:42 hm, that sounds useful 11:52:03 the usual way to create one is with the ln command; you write ln -s, then the path that goes in the symlink (an absolute path, or a path relative to the symlink itself, rather than the current directory), then where to put it 11:53:16 okay, so now i just have to find out whether that actually works with msysgit, or windows xp, and how to edit PATH 11:53:18 thanks 11:53:35 cygwin, at least, has some ingenious way of faking them 11:53:58 and I think (but am not 100% sure) that NTFS supports symlinks nowadays; Windows tools generally don't, though, so they might look a bit odd in a directory listing 11:54:29 they support hardlinks, or whatever they're called 11:54:42 i can't remember how they are actually different 11:55:12 <|amethyst> symlinks point to the name of the other file 11:55:18 <|amethyst> hardlinks point to the file itself 11:55:20 Eronarn: symlinks are pointers, there's an original file and the symlink is a pointer to its location on the filesystem 11:55:30 if you move or delete the original, then the symlink will break and no longer point to anything 11:55:39 hardlinks are symmetrical, you have one file with two names 11:55:42 <|amethyst> there is no difference between a hardlink and the original file 11:55:44 <|amethyst> yeah 11:55:44 move or delete either name, the other one remains unchanged 11:56:04 ccache faq specifically says not to use hardlinks 11:56:17 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:56:53 alefury: hardlinks are famous for confusing programs that aren't expecting them; symlinks mostly just work, hardlinks don't 11:57:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:27 also, there are some moderately arbitrary-seeming restrictions on them, and pretty much every Linux filesystem bans hardlinking directories because it's so confusing (Windows/NTFS permits it, though) 11:59:33 ais523: the reason for hardlinking directories is different: if a loop is created, all hell will break loose 12:01:03 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:19 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:52 <|amethyst> on linux and many other unices you can do something similar to directory hardlinks with "bind mounts" 12:02:32 <|amethyst> that's in the VFS not the filesystem, though 12:03:04 <|amethyst> I don't remember the term Solaris uses for them 12:04:28 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:04 kilobyte: agreed 12:05:22 Eronarn: windows has symlinks too, I use those to link game mods on my giant hdd to my steam folder on my main ssd 12:05:35 |amethyst: at least bind mounts don't have the problem where someone can hardlink a directory to inside itself, then delete the outer copy 12:06:21 I once played with an idea for a filesystem with a directory-level CoW (as opposed to file-based in vhashify or whole-fs block based in ZFS/btrfs) -- really, just a fuse wrapper that stores files on a real fs and handles only directories; got into big problems with how VFS handles unlinking 12:07:15 ie, there's no way to rmdir()/unlink() a non-empty directory, which kills the notion of O(1) purge of a directory subtree 12:10:10 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:39 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:47 -!- Wensley has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:33:59 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 12:41:21 kilobyte * 9dea99200bd7 (1 changed): Don't DYWIPI the Abyss stress bot. 12:42:14 ??dywipi 12:42:14 I don't have a page labeled dywipi in my learndb. 12:42:54 dump your weapon if purgy interrupts 12:43:32 -!- __duncan has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:43:58 -!- __duncan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:23 Wensley: Do You Want Your Possessions Identified? (NetHack) 12:45:43 ah 12:59:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:03 kilobyte * dbf2079db34c (1 changed): Fix the banishment area being misshapen if it's cut off by the map edge. 13:40:50 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:17 i havent found a single panlord level in 23 pan levels. is that supposed to happen? holypan spawned, so at least something seems to still be working. 13:41:34 s/panlord level/unique panlord level 13:42:44 yesterday we had somebody with 20 levels of nothingness and then all 4 uniques after that 13:43:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:25 the chances didn't change anytime recently 13:47:16 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:43 <|amethyst> when did evilmike change them? 13:49:05 <|amethyst> %git 23e6b44ac61ab1969bd76ba3cbabdd80c5fb42cf 13:49:06 Michael Gagno * r23e6b44ac61a: Tweak generation of unique Pandemonium lord levels. (4 months ago, 1 file, 17+ 11-) 13:49:10 maybe january or so 13:49:18 oh, look how smart that bot is 13:49:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:50:08 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 13:50:11 it takes the same number of levels (on average) to get all 4 pan lords 13:50:13 <|amethyst> I need to add the ability to do --grep and --author instead of just :/ 13:51:40 i just use changes.txt for that 13:52:20 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:24 alt tab, chang down enter, start typing what i want to search for :) 13:52:34 kilobyte * 756315f6c5eb (1 changed): Displace items when banishment copies some wall onto them. 13:52:34 kilobyte * ed23ca7b92d9 (5 changed): Fix truncation of character codes in some cases. 13:52:38 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:52 <|amethyst> git log --grep word is the same thing but skips the other ones 13:54:15 <|amethyst> and you can do e.g. git log --author Gagno --grep pandemonium -i which returns that commit as the first result 13:54:20 <|amethyst> (first = most recent) 13:54:34 nice 13:54:37 <|amethyst> that's how I got the commit name to ask chei for 13:54:37 alefury: should be about a 20% of each level having a unique, where you are right now. if you continue to get absurd luck it will gradually approach 50% 13:54:49 <|amethyst> s/name/hash/ 13:55:11 im not sure the new chances are better than the old ones 13:55:20 if not for the two zigs this would have been absurdly boring 13:55:55 welcome to pan!! 13:56:18 well, the holy level spiced things up a bit too, but was pretty much trivial after two zigs 13:58:15 the old way had it somewhat possible that it would take 50-60 levels to get all the uniques (you'd need to be very unlucky). extreme lengths like that are a lot less likely, although your overall visit might be around that long if you take a while to find the exit 14:06:18 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:21 well, next level and poof, cerebov. so looks like everything is working as it should 14:20:30 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:12 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:26 evilmike: an old idea of mine is to mark Pan transits with the name of whoever rules that place 14:35:10 if you get told the portal leads to the realm of Fuk Da Sac, there is not much info 14:35:18 kilobyte: Would all the pan transits on the level lead to the same realm? 14:35:25 but if it says "to the realm of Cerebov", ... 14:35:44 no, every transit has a different destination 14:36:02 hmm, that could encourage people to explore every level instead of diving, which would get boring 14:36:06 but multiple cerebov portals can generate unless you enter it? 14:36:32 evilmike: exploring every level takes just as long as diving 14:36:39 ChrisOelmueller: yeah 14:37:00 kilobyte: Not if you're just looking for the Panlords 14:37:50 yeah, diving is quicker if you want to find all 4 unique runes as fast as possible 14:38:01 and once you have a demonic rune, that's all you really want to do 14:38:42 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:12 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:35 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 14:46:56 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:06 having different named portals might work if the chances of getting a unique level was around 3x higher, maybe 14:49:16 I like how pan throws you into unique levels though, whether you're prepared for it or not. Being allowed to put them off for as long as you want sounds like it would be making pan too easy 14:49:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:40 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:21 evilmike: that'd make the Pan trip 9 times faster... 14:53:53 evilmike: I'm thinking more about encouraging mid-level characters to brave Pan 14:54:18 well, that's an interesting idea. They'd need a way out, though 14:54:46 <|amethyst> replace the hell portal in the evil forest with a pan portal 14:54:53 exits are overabundant these days, I'd say 14:55:02 I just made up the 3x figure by the way, I don't know how it should be adjusted. My thinking is just right now you can dive through 27 levels and usually get all four unique runes 14:55:17 if you had to explore levels for unique portals, trips would go slower 14:55:22 <|amethyst> maybe put a pan lord defending it to show they're not necessarily that tough 14:55:29 <|amethyst> (random) 14:55:50 as for exits, a while ago I thought it should start at 0 chance of a random exit, and increase as you get runes 14:56:03 with 5 runes exits could be made really common 14:57:25 the idea being, you've cleared pan, and looking for a way out can be pretty boring if you've already made it past some of the hardest bosses in crawl 14:57:58 random lords can be far stronger than Cerebov 14:58:14 they can get nastier spells, but they die way faster 14:58:24 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:39 Cherry-picked 3 commits into stone_soup-0.10 14:59:51 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:22 Cerebov: hd 21 speed 10. Random lords: hd 30 speed 18 (was nerfed), can get both Firestorm and Haste on the same lord 15:00:45 add Summon Eyes, still to the same lord, for extra fun 15:00:53 oh, forgot Torment 15:02:08 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:02:08 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 15:02:11 there sure is or will be a way to restrict those stats 15:02:16 they have less than 1/3 the hp though, and most of them don't get those spells 15:02:29 also, if you do get a really hard one, you can just skip the level with no penalty 15:02:36 yeah, they're random 15:03:04 on my last character to go through pan, what I did was check each one for rElec, and then kill them with chain lightning 15:03:21 I think even the ones that had rElec, I just killed with tornado instead 15:04:00 not a healthy thing to do on harder ones 15:04:18 -!- Voxxik has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:21 pretty rare to have multiple big spells on a single lord, though 15:04:29 and you can always run 15:04:35 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:42 well, the character had cleared a zig, so a single pan lord was a joke at that point 15:05:20 * kilobyte mutters something about 40 pan lords on Zig:27 15:05:31 I only bring up that game because it was pretty boring escaping pan. 5 pan runes + a zig, but the hardest part was overcoming boredom trying to escape pan :P 15:05:55 evilmike: right now it's ridiculously easy 15:06:08 not necessarily fun though 15:06:39 since there really is not much of a threat, and you can still get unlucky after fighting the important "bosses" 15:06:43 even after I greatly toned down the chance, it's still a common thing to get two on the same map 15:08:24 it was a bit high overall, yeah. I'd still prefer a system that let you out after getting all the runes, though. 15:08:56 if it gets too rare, I'll probably do pan a lot less often. Maybe just for tournaments 15:08:56 heh, Pan lords often get Dig 15:09:00 what for? 15:09:05 I already skip the abyss on most characters nowadays 15:09:13 boredom. I don't play parts of crawl that I don't like 15:09:22 I usually skip labyrinths unless I have a good source of digging 15:10:23 uhm, Labs are a matter of 2-3 minutes, that's like three yaktaur packs 15:10:51 Usually yeah. I've gotten the occasional bad one though 15:10:53 i don't care how long something will bore me, i can still make that a nice 0 minutes instead 15:11:42 <|amethyst> "no exploration algorithm will help you here" is a lie 15:11:53 <|amethyst> I mean, sure you can't just wall-follow 15:12:11 <|amethyst> but you could write a bot that could find the exit much quicker than a human 15:12:49 I also just find the non-labyrinth parts of crawl more fun then the labyrinth parts, and by the time labs show up my character is usually winnable... 15:13:12 so the way I think of it, if I know I can solve it in less than a minute it's good. Otherwise it's a waste of time 15:16:43 Plasmo (L10 HEWz) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed. (D:9) 15:17:12 In one word, I think I'd describe all of these things as "grindy". Applies to the abyss on high level characters, sometimes the demonic rune, sometimes pan exits, sometimes labyrinths. I'm also aware that I'm annoyed by these things more than some people are. 15:18:12 it's no Sokoban, at least 15:19:06 replace labs with sudoku 15:21:49 haha, actually, towards the end of my nethack playing, I would skip sokoban every game 15:21:56 not the best choice strategically, but oh well 15:22:52 what about a Boulder Dash portal vault? 15:23:12 chased by boulder beetles? 15:23:18 explained by the map being on a slope, so boulders go down 15:23:56 Boulder Dash has inanimate boulders that follow set rules 15:24:11 It's that game with all the digging, and boulders would fall on you, right? 15:24:15 That's an awful description 15:24:30 actually, monsters there follow set rules too: always following left/right 15:25:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1699-g756315f (33) 15:25:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:06 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:29:25 -!- stabwound has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:31:48 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:42 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:36 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:35 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 15:58:28 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:51