00:00:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:32 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:14 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:05:14 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 00:05:56 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:26 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:43 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:42 -!- qqryq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:02:55 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:13 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:16 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:42 -!- dpeg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:24:58 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:25:09 -!- gnsh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:56 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:26 dpeg, morning 02:21:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:48 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:53 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:06 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:38:40 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:08 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:18 03evilmike * rbc01596d6705 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/twisted.des: Don't use a real hatch in nicolae_entry_your_instructions. 02:51:35 I don't know what xuaxua is taking, but it seems to be pretty strong... 03:06:10 03evilmike * ra7c36af600b6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/evilmike_ambush.des: Tweak evilmike_ambush. 03:13:53 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:38 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:27:10 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:46 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:01 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 03:59:39 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:52 Nice, learned something new. If git am fails to apply a patch, you can do git am --3way to get the proper merge conflict stuff. 04:02:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:02:37 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 04:14:24 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:19 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:32 mornings 04:35:39 hi! 04:41:38 waahoo hii deepleg! 04:52:16 I am mostly not here... until folks start discussing the state of NH or so .) 04:52:35 we're mostly doing that on rgrn 04:53:00 ais523: yes, I noted 04:53:49 we're discussing it? 04:54:44 i thought it's a necessary condition for becoming a crawl dev to have some sort of nethack syndrome? 04:56:14 I don't have one of those :( 05:04:13 I thought the idea was to insist upon being different from NetHack even when that means avoiding an obviously correct idea :) 05:05:40 luckily, there aren't many of those in nethack 05:15:18 Crawl has actually taken Nethack ideas -- grudgingly, I'll grant you that. For example how missile enchantments work. 05:18:08 bhaak: for extra fun, there are probably some ideas in NetHack that are correct for Crawl but not for NetHack :) 05:20:59 :) 05:22:27 perhaps knightly jumping 05:22:36 although it'd need a less silly flavour justification in Crawl 05:44:29 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:41 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:01:55 -!- Pingas has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:09:49 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:27 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:52 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:57 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:20:57 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:22:22 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:22 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:07:01 -!- dpeg has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:13:24 -!- Pacra has left ##crawl-dev 07:17:33 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:13 I'm halfway through examining & commenting KiSS tutorial changes, I hope I can push to a branch tomorrow. 07:30:17 We should use some of those, but not all IMO. 07:30:39 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:03 Then there's evaluation & test findings report, I'll add them to the wiki hopefully soonish. 07:32:52 I just watched Surr use immolation against a ghost moth, dpeg you would've liked that :) 07:34:17 immolation? 07:34:22 scrolls 07:34:25 ohh 07:35:07 probably would have to use a few of those to kill a ghost moth 07:35:13 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 49-90 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 1805(drain dexterity), 1805(drain strength), 1208(nasty poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 2288. 07:35:13 %??ghost moth 07:35:15 ??immolation 07:35:16 immolation[1/3]: Scroll which creates a 3d10 fireball centered on you and extending two spaces. Not generated shallower than D:5. Does not destroy scrolls in 0.5 and later. 07:35:53 hm, 16 damage average, so 3-6 scrolls for a ghost moth 07:36:05 hmm, not sure I've ever intentionally used a ?oFire in NetHack, which does much the same thing 07:36:07 minus AC 07:36:23 immolation is decent against bees 07:36:36 also orc bands i guess 07:37:15 mostly bees though, and mostly just if you have rF 07:39:17 -!- HousePet has quit [Quit: Divide by cucumber error] 07:48:49 I always bring some ?immolation when I leave home. 07:58:22 dpeg: do you read them? 08:03:34 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:22 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:47 dpeg: don't read them in the bus 08:09:05 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * ra824ed8a2eb7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Apply more reasonable rules as to where OOD spawns shouldn't happen. 08:09:05 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r1154e19a82e4 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Note a bit fewer popcorn monsters in ZotDef. 08:09:06 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r64d4ef277c55 10/crawl-ref/ (378 files in 32 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into portal_branches 08:09:07 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r48a10faac71f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Get rid of DEPTH_ABYSS/DEPTH_PAN, use relative depths for monster selection. 08:09:07 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r5a6e62a6d21b 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Fix a crash when a monster is moved off the stairs you entered from. 08:09:07 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r77a5f9bff59c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/icecave.des: Don't use a branch callback in Ice Caves. 08:09:17 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rfa43c7e37c89 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/icecave.des: Properly check the Ice Cave difficulty in functions inside. 08:41:06 -!- qqryq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:45:47 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:45 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:40 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 09:48:25 03galehar * rf3dadc0d4c0f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-info.cc mon-util.cc): Scale mimic stats with depth. 09:48:26 03galehar * r1f127eee599e 10/crawl-ref/ (settings/init.txt source/exclude.cc): Set auto exclusion for detected mimics. 09:48:26 03galehar * rebfdce114306 10/crawl-ref/source/ (defines.h dungeon.cc): Remove depth restrictions for mimics. 09:49:10 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1109-ga7c36af (32) 10:07:04 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:23 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:05 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:22 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:59 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:32 is it possible that the existence of a crawlrc file could mess up the colour-coding/autopickup defaults (even when it sets no options related to those things) 12:05:56 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 12:09:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:39 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:30 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:50 headzone: sure, if you removed lines in the default rcfile that are related to those things... 12:35:54 in particular it looks like there are lots of uncommented lines in init.txt relating to colours 12:38:45 oh, there's a default rc that's read if and only if you don't have a ~/.crawlrc? 12:39:06 didn't expect that 12:39:26 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:48 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:21 hm, where are crawl rc's kept on cao these days? 12:41:35 I can't seem to find my trunk rc in /rcconfig. 12:41:48 er, /rcfiles, rather 12:44:35 !rc Pacra 12:44:35 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.10/Pac.rc 12:44:57 I completely forget that henzell had that query. thanks, Zannick. 12:45:06 that's not trunk but you can probably guess your trunk rcfile location 12:45:09 crawl-git is trunk 12:45:11 ?? rc[2] 12:45:12 rc[2/2]: Accessible via www: CAO: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-{0.7|0.8|0.9|0.10|git|lorcs}/$name.rc CDO: http://crawl.develz.org/configs/{ancient|0.6|0.7|0.8|0.9|0.10|trunk}/$name.rc 12:45:13 I'm guessing I can substitute crawl-git for 12:45:21 great! :] 13:02:40 there 13:02:45 oops 13:04:23 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:48 didnt the runes have a description? 13:05:01 it would be nice being able to read it now 13:08:21 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:28 Zannick: when portal_branches is merged, abyssal rune mimics will no longer be tougher than orb mimics ;) 13:12:41 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:15 galehar: yay? 13:13:23 (when will portal_branches be merged? :P) 13:14:45 when lorcs are, for volcano action 13:22:15 or maybe a little bit earlier 13:24:12 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:30 03MarvinPA * r8e60e9e12218 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 2 dirs): A new card: the Mercenary, pay gold for allies 13:48:35 hmm, deep elf blademaster pet :) 13:50:11 yeah, that might be a little too much for the high end :P 13:50:33 ?? deep elf blademaster 13:50:33 deep elf blademaster[1/2]: A deep elf with 27 Short Blades, and (most likely) the ability to outrun you. Has been known to dualwield quickblades. Like all elves, doesn't like curare. Unlike most elves, it has the EV to make curare application difficult. 13:50:37 @?? deep elf blademaster 13:50:37 deep elf blademaster (11e) | Speed: 15 | HD: 16 | Health: 91-120 | AC/EV: 0/25 | Damage: 25, 25 | Res: 06magic(128) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 3625. 13:50:42 but then again it's 3-4k gold 13:50:54 yeah, good luck affording that 13:52:13 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:44 well, interesting card := 13:55:03 i think dpeg suggested something along those lines a long time ago, and then a tavern topic reminded me of the idea and it turned out to be pretty quick and fun to implement :P 13:55:32 MarvinPA: oh, nice 13:56:26 MarvinPA: it might be necessary for the mercenaries to ask for a new payroll from time to time but we'll see 13:56:55 perhaps, yeah 14:11:09 MarvinPA: oh, and one more thing: the original idea for a mercenary card was Haran's, and with the following reason: the summoning decks are the only one without a problematic card -- the Mercenary would be at least double-edged. 14:18:32 summoning decks have hostile summons 14:19:32 sure but beyond that 14:19:35 well i think it'd be a lot harder to balance in a deck that nemelex gifts, especially if the allies are permanent 14:19:50 nobody said that the allies should be permanent 14:20:45 true, it could certainly work in summonings as a temporary thing with lower costs 14:27:06 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:15 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:19 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:54 Is there a reason demons are appearing in V? Some commit I missed? 14:51:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:52 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:53:45 (I would appreciate it if someone would pm me the answer, as I have to leave) 14:53:53 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:05:46 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:52 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:07 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:48 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:35 -!- qqryq_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:26 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:22:26 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r3a3a16797d48 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/lab.des: Get rid of code duplication in Lab portals. 15:22:37 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r51abd7643f05 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/icecave.des: Don't use nasty hacks with map_by_tag() in ice caves, veto unfitting maps. 15:24:17 03kilobyte * r0a25ad2110d8 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Add an assertion to ensure no invalid mercenaries are produced. 15:24:27 03kilobyte * r4e29ed5fcdcc 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Fix invalid monster depths for Vaults. 15:34:24 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: b Training armour doesn't require armour anymore? :S 15:40:55 no it doesnt 15:41:00 cool 15:43:36 Entry vaults that force you to go down to D:2 are ok? 15:43:42 no 15:43:46 *stupid question time* 15:43:57 probably there is a secret door 15:43:58 did you search? 15:44:12 I'm on an island with loads of deep water 15:44:29 no square of shallow? 15:44:33 sometimes that one does force you to d:2 iirc 15:44:51 There are shallows but none reachable 15:45:04 I do vaguely remember that there were a couple of vaults with a very low chance of forcing you to d:2, yeah... someone who understands vault syntax should fix that 15:45:14 hmmk 15:45:25 Can I check the vault name in game somehow? 15:46:01 only once the game ends, and only then if you changed your rcfile to record vault names in the morgue or if you actually died in the vault 15:49:30 dpeg_entry_castle claims it's "intended" 15:49:58 ok dpeg. 15:49:59 thanks. 15:50:08 doesn't seem right to put a D:2 ogre or centaur as the first enemy the player meets 15:51:00 yeah but... dpeg! 15:51:01 ;) 15:51:16 not sure if pool_fixup comes before or after the validate{{}} chunk, it could be used with glyphs_connected() 15:52:01 also, you're not forced to go down to D:2. You still can go back up :P 15:54:49 against the ogre you can at least have a chance, against #quit, none 16:01:09 "i started on this really big d:1 but then there wasn't anything more and i was forced down to d:2" 16:03:15 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1115-g4e29ed5 16:04:09 unknown monster: "orb of zot mimic" 16:04:09 %?? orb of zot mimic 16:05:20 unknown monster: "orb mimic" 16:05:20 %??orb mimic 16:05:28 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:29 ASSERT(m->inv[MSLOT_MISCELLANY] != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-info.cc' at line 495 failed. 16:05:29 %??item mimic 16:05:37 feature mimic (16X) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-58 | AC/EV: 5/1 | Damage: 1208(poison), 12, 12 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 467. 16:05:37 %??feature mimic 16:06:08 this is the old stats 16:06:27 haha 16:06:37 and the new scaling is hard coded when the item/feature mimic is turned into a monster 16:07:22 are they actually threatening now? 16:07:39 I think so 16:08:24 the orb of zot mimic has HD:23, Dam:27, 3 attacks (one normal, one poisonous and one constriction) 16:09:02 constriction :( 16:09:59 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:05 they start getting it around D:15 16:10:06 I'm trying to figure out how an orb would constrict 16:10:14 with tentacles 16:10:38 how did you figured they attack? 16:10:50 body slams 16:11:03 ? 16:11:03 :P 16:11:15 I just wrote a c-r-d mail about this 16:11:24 about every single part of that commit is wrong :( 16:11:34 oooh, i should subscribe to that 16:11:37 keep forgetting 16:12:06 -!- qqryq_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:46 kilobyte: feature mimics have always been speed 10. I didn't change it. 16:12:56 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:13:16 ok, so less blame against you personally then, at least 16:13:36 so, you liked it better when mimics were harmless? Why didn't you said so before? I've talked about scaling their stats several times 16:13:38 well speed < 10 would make them worthless 16:13:43 so i don't see a problem there 16:13:57 but i agree that it'd be good to change their names to respect the scaled stats 16:13:59 I posted a table with stats yesterday 16:14:01 -!- Blade is now known as Blade- 16:14:02 reflect* 16:16:49 they can already have a pretty long name "a shimmering scale mail mimic" 16:17:12 adding an adjective to it like wimpy or tough is going to make them very verbose 16:18:04 what about having three tiers? 16:18:11 instead of magical scaling to depth 16:18:29 or perhaps even two, at specific native depths 16:19:30 could steal mimic names from adom :P 16:19:45 a blade trap doesn't change name, yet it deals a different amount of damage depending on where it is in the dungeon. 16:19:59 ("mimic hivemind") 16:21:11 galehar: which is something I raised some time ago, and fixing what is on my todo list 16:21:33 kilobyte: what's wrong with the blade trap behavior? how would you fix it? 16:21:39 i liked the scaling, i just think constriction is overkill :P 16:21:42 "remove blade traps"? :P 16:21:46 other than "remove mechanical traps" :P 16:22:05 there are enough mechanical traps which differ by nothing but damage they deal (and a few items you can sac to Nemelex, at most) 16:22:48 Zannick: I wouldn't mind removing constriction. But I feel it feets their theme of melee only threat 16:22:54 *fits 16:23:00 the mimic thing is also kind of different from the blade trap thing because it adds a new capability 16:23:04 sure 16:23:08 or in this case, RMsl making most traps but blade nearly harmless (was strictly harmless in 0.9) 16:23:10 rather than just upping numbers 16:23:24 i guess nethack has mimics with pseudoconstriction 16:23:33 or whatever it is that makes you unable to move away 16:23:38 blade trap damage scaling with dlvl is reasonable because it lets them be useful across a wider range but isn't that noticeable to players (because their defenses and HP scale too) 16:23:58 also, mimics having constriction is a D&Dism, in case anyone didn't know 16:24:05 Eronarn: yeah, and it doesn't scale that much 16:24:05 they secrete a gluey substance 16:24:07 for what it's worth, I never noticed blade trap damage scaling 16:24:40 kilobyte: my suggestions for the tier names - as pointed out by galehar new monsters might be a problem, but we can probably just change the names - are something like 'mimic', 'drooling mimic', 'ravenous mimic' 16:25:09 blade trap damage scaling would be better if branch absdepth0 was more sensible, though 16:25:42 elliptic: we'll fix it soon :) 16:26:04 blade traps can spawn on D:12 the earliest, and do 2*depth+28 damage 16:26:07 so what else interesting happened while i was apartment hunting :P 16:26:12 all i see is mimics 16:26:17 I'd be fine with removing blade traps or making them fixed damage, so long as that fixed damage isn't one-shotting more players than it does now 16:27:02 i think the best solution would be to make all damage traps work like blade traps, be fixed damage, and be placed according to depth 16:27:05 ie, 52 on D:12, 82 on D:27, not a drastic difference 16:27:19 so you don't have weaker or stronger blade traps, but instead spear traps (that work like current blade traps) earlier 16:27:20 kilobyte: well, 82 on D:12 would be really bad :) 16:27:26 because it definitely is... yes, that 16:28:18 "do a large percentage of maxHP of players at that depth" traps, i guess 16:28:45 about mimics, it sounds like people agree that changing their name is good, and that the only other point of contention really is the constriction 16:29:43 there are better effects than current constriction 16:30:22 personally I find it easy to imagine mimics creating tentacles or something and attacking you with them... how else are they attacking you? 16:30:36 so constriction doesn't bother me, but certainly there are other possibilities 16:30:44 kilobyte: care to suggest one? 16:31:29 maybe confusion melee? 16:31:46 constriction is good because it lets them be interesting in later vaults 16:31:47 also, constriction is only for deep mimics. They start getting it between D:16 and D:21 16:31:50 or that might be rough on mummies, hm 16:31:51 by keeping you in place 16:32:07 confusion just is annoying 16:32:09 (had to get rid of the cat) yeah, confusion melee would be better 16:32:35 keeping you in place == mesmerize actually? 16:32:37 even some other kind of immobilization 16:32:53 I see mimics as being mainly interesting when you are running away from other monsters or apport them to you with other monsters around, so effects that work well with other monsters are good 16:33:09 like webs rather than naga/monstrosity constriction 16:33:25 webs could be fun 16:33:40 let mimics web spit 16:33:45 yes, immobilizations without actual constricting sounds better 16:33:46 which is why I thought constriction was okay, but there are other options even if they might be a bit more complicated to implement, yes 16:33:58 heck, with poison, maybe our mimics are arachnids :) 16:34:13 are we talking jumping spider-style webbing? 16:35:17 Eronarn: for traps, my thought was to push blade traps deeper, having most types do damage stretched out through the range so different traps stand apart more 16:35:18 also this might get me lynched but... what about para 16:35:32 eronarn: yes it might, be careful 16:36:20 it would keep up thr piis thenme 16:36:25 paralytic venom 16:36:28 elliptic: spider-style webbing is currently problematic because it doesn't work right on non-floor 16:36:36 ah 16:36:44 and webs are pretty weak 16:37:32 not really... if you don't have blink they can take several turns to escape if you get unlucky 16:38:09 can you no have blink by D:16? 16:38:13 another option is to give mimics some sort of ranged attack, by the way... confusion would be themed 16:38:14 *not 16:38:27 (still interesting, my FeCK ultimately died because of underestimating a jumping spider and losing a life, the final death was more of the kind lives are meant for instead of "but... how? this weak monster got me?") 16:38:31 galehar: uh, many characters don't cast spells or don't find blink by then 16:39:05 not that blink is necessary, just that it helps a lot to have a 1-turn escape possible 16:39:28 galehar: blink with constriction is another problem -- teleport in general at least has a delay, and is likely to land you in trouble 16:39:47 well, I'm sure it's possible to have not found any source of blinking, but I guess it should be quite common to have it by D:16 16:40:00 ranged webbing>? 16:40:02 galehar: well, you'll likely have scrolls, but those are very valuable 16:41:30 I removed the no-blink restriction as it was outright broken and it was already after scheduled "last deadline" for 0.10 forking, but it indeed makes constriction easy if you have unlimited blink 16:42:16 thif is a problem wiyh blink 16:42:19 if the chances to escape just from pulling away were somewhat reasonable, maybe it'd be okay to have constrictors blink along with you again (but not prevent you from blinking entirely) 16:42:37 or blink could count as an escape attempt, maybe that's simpler 16:43:47 yeah, teleport being unhampered. You can't blink through statues or walls already. 16:44:25 i feel like making that something like sizediff/1+sizediff would be good 16:44:27 this would make rebalancing tentacled monstrosities way more pressing, but it's not like there's a shortage of reasons to change them 16:44:35 MarvinPA: you think the chances of escape are unreasonably low? 16:44:50 for blink fail chance, i mean 16:44:57 tele would not have such a failure chance 16:44:58 unless i'm behind and the new proposed formulae got added 16:45:04 MarvinPA: escape rates are better now 16:45:09 aha! cool 16:45:16 or at least I think galehar committed that? 16:45:23 I did 16:45:47 I even pushed a lua simulator if one wants to adjust the numbers even more... 16:46:23 ok, i'll have to catch up and try the new numbers out then 16:47:08 hey, can Henzell tell mimics kills? I kinda remember the variable name made it hard to get results 16:47:36 don't we have a "true name" field somewhere? 16:47:41 with strings like "pan lord" 16:47:49 we have ckiller 16:48:04 the monster types are "item mimic" and "feature mimic" 16:48:06 !lg * ckiller=~mimic s=ckiller,cv 16:48:27 569 games for * (ckiller=~mimic): 127x a door mimic (44x 0.8, 28x 0.10, 21x 0.10-a, 15x 0.9-a, 12x 0.8-a, 7x 0.11-a), 91x a weapon mimic (36x 0.9, 34x 0.8, 12x 0.9-a, 7x 0.8-a, 2x 0.10-a), 57x a staircase mimic (25x 0.10, 24x 0.10-a, 8x 0.11-a), 55x a mimic (21x 0.7, 14x 0.6, 6x 0.2, 4x 0.7-a, 4x 0.6-a, 3x 0.1, 3x 0.8-a), 39x a scroll mimic (11x 0.10-a, 10x 0.9, 6x 0.10, 6x 0.8, 3x 0.9-a, 2x 0.8-a... 16:48:40 looks like currently ckiller isn't combining them though 16:48:45 there's no ckiller in the logfile, must be something on Henzell's side 16:48:50 yes 16:48:52 !lg * ckiller=~mimic s=ckiller 16:48:53 569 games for * (ckiller=~mimic): 127x a door mimic, 91x a weapon mimic, 57x a staircase mimic, 55x a mimic, 39x a scroll mimic, 38x a potion mimic, 35x an armour mimic, 19x a pile of gold mimic, 17x a stair mimic, 16x a fountain mimic, 14x a shop mimic, 12x a portal mimic, 5x a leather armour mimic, 5x an escape hatch mimic, 3x a quarterstaff mimic, 2x a flail mimic, 2x a book mimic, 2x a trident... 16:49:12 yeah, the pan lord stuff is all Henzell-side as i recall 16:49:18 giving them all ckiller=mimic would probably not be a difficult change for sequell 16:49:23 let's add this to what Crawl writes down? 16:49:53 would fix unknown capitalized stuff being miscategorized 16:50:39 would be good probably, yes... poor sequell shouldn't have to do all that work :P 16:50:52 (don't call the new field ckiller of course) 16:51:19 why, would it cause a problem? 16:51:52 seems likely, and it would be inconsistent with all the other c- fields 16:52:01 (can use 'a'+random2('z'-'a'+1) + "killer" of course :p) 16:52:05 since they are all sequell constructs, not something written by crowds 16:52:24 er, by crawl 16:52:58 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:54:08 (ckaux, crace, ckiller, maybe something else I'm forgetting) 16:54:50 good to know 16:59:29 so what could be done to mimics? Which option already mentioned sounds the best? 16:59:57 looks like we all roughly agree that escaping should be hampered somehow 17:00:13 about constriction? 17:00:22 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:38 yeah... even if they can magically sprout tentacles somehow, it doesn't seem like they should suddenly have full strength of dedicated constrictors (like anacondas or lower half of a naga) 17:01:41 how about a hold status? Using the same mechanisms as constriction but not dealing damage. Less formulae to balance. 17:02:29 I prefer nets or (slightly less) confusion, but holding could be good too 17:09:13 speaking of variants of constrictions, here's a monster idea: chupacabra or leeches, cling without hampering movement 17:09:13 I sort of like the hold idea 17:09:13 implementing hold would also be the occasion of properly abstracting and cleaning up the constriction code :) 17:09:13 what's the difference of "hold" vs. mesmerize (as i asked earlier)? usually, if not for ash or antennae, mimics are detected at melee range 17:09:13 03dolorous * rb3bb43f2a5af 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Update mons_is_native_in_branch() for the Spider Nest and the Forest. 17:09:13 and mesmerize would actually help balance them a bit, if that is intended 17:09:13 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:13 ChrisOelmueller: the escape mechanism is different 17:09:13 and the theme too 17:09:13 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:09:13 galehar: which part of constriction code do you mean? 17:09:13 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 17:09:13 and it depends on size and str and not on MR 17:09:13 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:13 galehar: at least storing the list of constrictors/constrictees needs to be nuked from the orbit and rewritten from scratch 17:09:13 that's low-level stuff though 17:09:13 kilobyte: honestly, I haven't looked to close at it 17:09:13 how would you rewrite it? 17:09:13 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:10:30 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 17:13:27 problems: 1. wastes quite a bunch of memory, 2. uses mindex which causes breakages when something dies and is replaced the same turn, dies in a weird way, is moved off-level, or _you_ move off level, 3. loops with ugly static limits 17:13:27 how about we reuse the gapple rules from D&D 3.5? 17:13:27 * galehar ducks 17:13:27 what, where everybody else gets mountain dew and pizza while you rethink your decision to grapple? 17:13:27 I'd make it a pointer to a vector; in the non-constricted case (ie, 99.9% of turns), it'd short-circuit all of processing 17:13:27 ;) 17:13:27 and use mid, which lets you know the monster is not the same as what just died 17:13:27 kilobyte: sounds good. Could use a map even to store the duration 17:13:27 there's too many way to free a menv[] slot, not all of which go through monster_die() as they're not real deaths 17:13:27 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:43 the several monster id has always confused the heck out of me 17:14:02 yeah, I'm on a crusade against mindex 17:14:21 partially fueled by getting more and more kraken crashes, etc 17:14:53 put -1 as a duration to mean hold (without damage, you don't care since how long you're held) 17:15:03 the last unresolved one for example includes krakens in Abyssal vaults getting removed by abyss shifts -- which leads to tentacles thinking something else is their head 17:15:38 the mindex they hold point to a monster in the newly generated part of the Abyss 17:16:36 is it hard to replace mindex by mid to fix those bugs? 17:17:44 that's what I'm doing :) 17:18:08 just too slowly, due to lack of time 17:18:34 I mean is it tricky or the problem is just that there are too many of them? 17:19:14 both; most cases are quite easy 17:19:54 the kraken one though is hampered by 4968347673 places assuming the head never, ever goes away without notifying the tentacles 17:20:28 maybe we should document it somehow. mid was added well before constriction. But the person who coded it wasn't aware and just copied what was already existing 17:20:31 (enforcing which is a viable alternate fix there) 17:25:03 -!- kilobyte has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:26:21 03MarvinPA * r6cc63c75d1fb 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Display mercenary fees when you can't afford them, too 17:36:48 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:16 -!- headzone has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:28 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:15 -!- tholmes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:33 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:12 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:12 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:11:09 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:46 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:01 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:25 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:28 03kilobyte * rfa18312409ad 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Remove depth/rarity settings for monsters that can't possibly spawn. 18:46:38 03kilobyte * rd401c4775310 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Make iron dragons spawn a notch more often in Dis. 18:52:18 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rb25a66cc1c10 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Don't use 0 as the native depth of ineligible monsters. 18:59:43 !learn add xom_reasons !lg * ckiller=butterfly -tv 18:59:43 xom reasons[6/6]: !lg * ckiller=butterfly -tv 19:00:05 wrong channel? 19:00:19 also what happens if somebody gets another butterfly death!!! 19:01:25 !learn edit xom_reasons[6] s/$/ 1/ 19:01:26 xom reasons[6/6]: !lg * ckiller=butterfly -tv 1 19:02:34 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:58 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:02 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:28:41 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:14 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:42 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 20:10:51 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:21 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:26 -!- Blade is now known as Blade- 20:14:39 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: medgno] 20:17:52 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 20:19:13 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 20:29:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 20:35:21 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:43 -!- HousePet has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:49 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:01 Equipping a shield when wielding a 2 handed weapon as an octopod. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5558) by Saul 21:20:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:25 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:42:42 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:02 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:43:08 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 22:02:36 03evilmike * r17df5836cdd0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des: Update wizlab_golubria. 22:15:45 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:28:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 22:30:08 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:18 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 23:12:21 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 23:28:03 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]