00:00:55 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1010-g242b157 (32) 00:01:52 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1010-g242b157 00:15:57 -!- tholmes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:21 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:26 03|amethyst * r44b8611a0411 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Do not display Tengu flight as suppressed in '%'. 01:32:08 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:44:29 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:00:08 <|amethyst> so, are melded rings supposed to still work? 02:04:55 <|amethyst> looks like the addition of octopodes made melded rings still have an effect, by having player_equip pass include_melded=true to slot_item 02:05:59 <|amethyst> oh, I see 02:06:01 <|amethyst> 4598 02:25:32 search-examining shops shows icons of (unknown) items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5541) by bein 02:30:18 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 02:42:27 <|amethyst> and I'm not clear on what the problem in 5541 is... is it not supposed to show icons for unIDed items? 02:42:50 <|amethyst> I guess maybe it's talking about randarts 02:45:27 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:43 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:30 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:10 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:31:34 Text msg for using Control Teleport spell on a -cTele level (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5542) by petzl 03:42:39 !tell MarvinPA hunger costs in ZotDef were not completely irrelevant: vampires may want them to control blood level; not sure how to let them do that otherwise. But then, perhaps I care too much. 03:42:39 kilobyte: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 03:48:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:27 <|amethyst> trying to figure out why friendlies won't fire IOODs 03:54:01 <|amethyst> I see that beam.foe_info.count is zero... not sure why 04:00:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:15 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:28 <|amethyst> oh... the tracer is zero damage 04:07:53 fishi (L10 TrTm) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1388 failed. (Abyss) 04:08:21 <|amethyst> yep, that fixes it 04:22:15 03|amethyst * r8ee69c136a63 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Allow monster-on-monster IOOD action. 04:38:22 elliptic: back in the Victory Dance days, exercising armour needed a body armour with a weight > 100. Which meant only robe and animal skins prevented it. 04:39:08 we could go back to this restriction which would allow training armour with steam dragon armour 04:44:13 -!- tholmes has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:46:26 -!- _tholmes has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:49:59 galehar: I don't see any reason to keep any restriction. It just means that people who want to train armour wear leather or troll leather or mottled dragon armour instead of a robe... -1 EVP is completely insignificant penalty to everyone 04:50:28 also, armour skill *does* something in a robe. 04:54:04 if we want to keep a restriction, I'd say make the restriction be -2 EVP... the cutoff for "heavy" vs "light" armour used by ozocubu's armour 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1011-g44b8611 05:20:46 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:21:41 -!- hangedman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:40 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:59 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:01 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Changing host] 05:33:01 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:13 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:37 -!- qqryq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:49:13 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:49 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:00:08 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:17 03elliptic * re312df1e4261 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Make using Enchant Weapon III scrolls on missiles less inefficient. 06:24:11 training armour naked or in robe/skin is a bit weird. How about base AC > 0? (which has the same result weight > 100 but makes more sense in case new armour types are added later) 06:24:49 robe has base AC > 0... 06:25:11 and armour skill does something even if you don't have body armour if you have a cloak or something 06:25:33 I don't see any problem with having it be trainable on any race with apt > -99 06:25:40 right 06:25:58 felids? 06:26:08 felid has apt = -99 06:26:10 ahh 06:26:25 (apt = -99 means that it isn't trainable ever) 06:27:01 the -2 EVP restriction would be bad. Not being able to train armour in mottled dragon armour with base ac 6 :( 06:27:51 not that much different from training armour in a robe 06:28:42 a naga with a barding gets more benefit from training armour skill in a robe than a troll does from training armour skill in mottled dragon armour 06:29:34 so if you really care about being able to train armour skill in MDA, you should also care about training it in a robe... 06:30:44 so, the only restriction that would make sense would be totally naked. Better to just remove it. 06:44:28 looks like orc warlords are never in bands :( 06:45:45 band_size = 5 + random2(5); // warlords have large bands 06:45:52 they get bands when they generate 06:46:22 they are pretty rare though outside of orc 06:47:27 (the band they get is BAND_ORC_KNIGHT) 06:47:46 hmm right. I'll need to have closer look at this code. 06:48:14 03galehar * rfd0a1caa87b0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (delay.cc exercise.cc player-equip.cc skills.cc): Remove restrictions on armour training. 06:48:27 03galehar * rd15a5cc561cc 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Slightly increase the rarity of elf blademasters and master archers. 06:50:00 probably making a BAND_ORC_WARLORD and replacing some orc knight generation with orc warlord generation would be good 06:51:34 yes, that sounds good 07:03:41 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:37 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 08:16:25 Using Ice Form as octopode gives incorrect text for ring slots (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5543) by petzl 08:29:51 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rf9078c86f36d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc place.cc place.h stairs.cc wiz-dgn.cc): Use the level stack to save return target for portal vaults/Abyss/Pan/Zigs/Lab. 08:29:51 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r6cbf94bf9a93 10/crawl-ref/source/dbg-util.cc: Show absdepth0 on &^E. 08:29:51 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * re4ce5015b48f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc l_feat.cc terrain.cc terrain.h): Simplify closing portals during the Orb run; handle portals in Pan. 08:29:52 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r56e1a973ec22 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Unyellowify a dprf(). 08:29:52 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * ra7f549ffe55f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/branches/pan.des dungeon.cc): Fix pandemonium transits not being created; place exits via a vault instead. 08:29:53 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rebde12f0693e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Make exits through Abyss a feature on their own. 08:29:53 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r86f4668bfeed 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des: Spawn less unguarded direct exits from Pan, spawn far more ones via the Abyss. 08:29:53 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rf5098f3e346b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch-data.h branch.h travel.cc): Purge remnants of Hell instant upstairs code. 08:29:54 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r6b22b519f2c1 10/crawl-ref/source/branch.cc: Fix oplace for entering portals. 08:29:55 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r0763ab119ad8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc place.cc place.h): Assert out if you try to enter a level that's already on the stack. 08:29:55 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r56119a8290e4 10/crawl-ref/source/l_you.cc: Expose is_level_on_stack to lua. 08:29:56 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r9246b4387591 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix a number of vaults that could never spawn. 08:29:56 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r47926bca1c8f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fix Trowel cards mysteriously not working in disconnected branches. 08:31:18 -!- HousePet has quit [Quit: Divide by cucumber error] 08:32:20 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r4b7f175c4199 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: Fix exiting any portal crashing... 08:40:21 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:37 kilobyte: awesome! are you still far from merging? 08:49:55 still got the whole level_info brouchacha to fix (when to delete a level, etc) 08:50:24 also, about every single portal vault has some minor breakage with exits, due to dgn.set_lt_callback() not working 08:50:34 I DIDN'T DO IT 08:50:39 oh wait due != me ;) 08:51:06 like, Bazaar exits show as escape hatches (makes sense, they're defined as "<") -- but they work :p 08:51:26 bazaar shafts 08:51:29 bazaar:2 08:51:37 You have to pay to get out. 08:51:40 Sucks to be you! 08:51:46 most bugs are due to due ;) 08:51:57 so true :( 08:52:04 * due goes to self-flaggelate... or at least sleep :D 08:52:53 Eronarn: hmm, Bazaar:2 seems like an idea how to handle recursion. Could be simpler to just tell you the portal is one-way (even if that'd be inconsistent), not sure about that. 08:53:24 at least, Bazaar trowels not working in Bazaars is a tad better than not working in Pan and Zigs as well 08:54:45 trowel working in zig seems kind of bad 08:55:06 due: also, should I leave enums and basic support for Tower of Madness? 08:55:10 no worse than old tomb i guess, but still kind of bad 08:55:30 due: it's so tempting to add support for multi-level portal vaults as we're here 08:56:10 alefury: ah, as an escape option, you're right 08:56:42 alefury: probably Trowel should never be a way out of trouble, yeah 08:57:48 kilobyte: definitely add multi-level portal support 08:58:03 still, in the old state it was a way out of trouble in most places, and you had to be spoiled to know where it's not 08:58:57 i dont think trowel being a way out of trouble is really a problem 08:59:25 Eronarn: Ziggurat is not really one, even if current faking of levels is removed -- levels are not persistent (or semi-persistent, ie, until return from the portal as a whole) 08:59:36 its just that most of the usual ways out of trouble dont work in zig now (tomb, distortion unwield) or have never worked really well (teleport, blink) 09:00:10 well, tomb works, but is no longer super duper abusable 09:00:30 so does distortion unwield 09:00:51 no banish --> tentacle in zig? 09:01:03 that's hell 09:01:18 ah, i thought it was changed in zig too 09:01:27 also, i think zig --> abyss is currently disabled? 09:01:35 because crash on return, fixed in portal_branches? 09:01:42 alefury: exactly 09:04:15 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:44 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: Stay sane inside insanity!] 09:32:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1015-gd15a5cc (32) 09:43:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:59:34 03dolorous * r17cdde5e3c7e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc status.cc): Fix wording of some Sage-related messages. 10:10:49 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:20 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:14:00 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 10:16:03 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:42:44 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:05 <|amethyst> hm, so it looks like 5541 is right, though the title is misleading... ctrl-f in tiles mode leaks information about (unknown) potions in shops 10:54:24 <|amethyst> because the tile is the same as for the unidentified potion 10:54:52 <|amethyst> (also wands etc) 10:55:57 <|amethyst> it doesn't tell you for certain because many appearances share tiles, but you can narrow down, for example, that this blue potion must be either berserk rage or resistance 10:56:22 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:47 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:01 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:39 oh right, I misunderstood the report 11:08:49 I thought it was about antique shops 11:09:00 <|amethyst> I did too 11:10:08 <|amethyst> not sure how to plug the leak 11:10:30 then I guess if it's unknown, it should give the unknown tile of the base type, but it might be tricky to implement seeing the mess of menus 11:10:30 <|amethyst> changing item appearances when they are identified is... strange 11:10:33 <|amethyst> hm 11:10:40 <|amethyst> yeah, that could work 11:11:17 <|amethyst> are there other situations where one can have an identified flavoured item whose class isn't identified? 11:11:49 I don't think so 11:12:55 regarding mageykun's comment, there has been some changes to fixedarts. I believe they now either have randomised appearance/tile or are identified right away 11:13:08 maybe some have been missed 11:14:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:24 all the non-bad fixedarts are automatically identified 11:14:34 only stuff like robe of misfortune is not 11:14:42 (they have randomized appearance) 11:14:56 and tile hopefully? 11:14:59 (at least, they have randomized description; I don't know about the tile) 11:15:24 <|amethyst> elliptic: does the unided flag determine that? 11:15:44 <|amethyst> because faerie dragon armour and ring of the octopus king are also unided (for the props) 11:15:45 this actually makes me sad because some of the fixed appearances were quite good (for instance, "thick gauntlets" was an ADOM reference) 11:16:36 |amethyst: I got a ring of the octopus king recently... the name "ring of the octopus king" was already there, but I needed to identify it to find out which one it was 11:16:43 <|amethyst> ah 11:16:52 I don't actually know how the code works :) 11:17:52 the un'id tile for robe of misfortune is TODO :( 11:18:07 <|amethyst> ah, it's the randapp flag 11:18:10 I vaguely remember people saying that you could tell robe of misfortune from the tile at some point in the past, so probably worth checking whether that is working right... 11:20:24 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: On my way to the RaumZeitLabor] 11:25:14 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:17 Pacra> Tha petrified plant be 'ngulfed in calcifyin' dust. 11:25:17 _Tha petrified plant turns ta stone! 11:25:44 <|amethyst> looks like tileidx_item does at least try to give RANDAPP artefacts different tiles 11:25:44 this makes no sense 11:25:55 something that's already stone can't turn to stone!! 11:31:32 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:49 <|amethyst> galehar: are you working on a fix? 11:32:59 <|amethyst> galehar: I guess I should have mentioned that I was 11:36:07 no I'm not 11:36:13 I guessed you were :) 11:36:14 <|amethyst> oh good 11:36:28 I'm working on nfogravity's fsim 11:40:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:35 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:36 <|amethyst> @??profane servitor 11:44:36 profane servitor (05A) | Speed: 15 | HD: 18 | Health: 132-175 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Damage: 2505(vampiric), 1013(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(192), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy, 13torm | XP: 5612. 11:44:37 <|amethyst> doh 11:45:19 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:32 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:57:47 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:58 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:02 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:22 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:04:17 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:34 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:21:37 Assertion failure in libutil.cc:942 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5544) by pipping 12:24:02 -!- SamB_XP_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:21 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:57 FR: enable fedhas in zotdef 12:26:16 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:16 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:27:23 03|amethyst * r404ee94f8e58 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Use unseen background tile for (unknown) items. 12:37:41 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte Switching branches from trunk to 0.10 then building without make clean, I just got "No rule to make target `lang-fake.h', needed by `tilereg-cmd.o'." Removing the .d file fixed it. 12:37:42 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 12:40:20 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * r042011ff0774 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Use unseen background tile for (unknown) items. 12:42:42 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:44:14 03MarvinPA * r0b14ed1badee 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc: Add a message for casting Control Teleport on -cTele floors 12:44:24 03MarvinPA * r7be2950d9f41 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Remove a Terence speech line 12:47:51 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: on a related note, "Stay back! It could be a strategy!" sounds a little funny 12:47:59 haha, yeah 12:48:03 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: perhaps _ploy_ should have "strategy" removed :) 12:48:30 <|amethyst> or maybe replaced with "trap" 12:48:48 that'd work, yeah 12:52:49 how do you people feel about adding fedhas back to zotdef? 12:54:14 03MarvinPA * r799007604d5d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Replace "strategy" with "trap" in imp speech 12:58:15 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r2b4aa820d5bb 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc: Add a message for casting Control Teleport on -cTele floors 13:07:52 I think items with a randomized UnIDed appearance should retain that appearance somewhere in their description after being IDed 13:08:10 <|amethyst> DaneiTWO: why? 13:08:23 <|amethyst> is the information useful at all? 13:08:28 Roleplaying. If I'm wearing a twitching marble ring, I'd like to remember that it's a twitching marble ring, even when I know what it does. 13:08:34 I want to be able to envision my character 13:08:49 <|amethyst> hm 13:08:56 It's not useful in a gameplay sense 13:09:08 but it would increase enjoyment of the game for me (and probably some other people too) without making anything worse 13:11:40 <|amethyst> makes sense... though it would add an extra line to the description of flavoured items and artefacts 13:12:39 <|amethyst> not a major concern, but if that pushes something else off the screen that would be a small problem 13:12:44 <|amethyst> I guess it could go at the end :) 13:14:33 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:46 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:39 <|amethyst> that would require another flag to item_def::name and item_def::name_aux 13:18:27 <|amethyst> there's currently no way in the code to get the unid name of an IDed item 13:20:30 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:57 I think at one point there were plans for having a regular description screen and then a flavor description screen, which would contain the flavor quote. It could also contain the unIDed description 13:22:02 if I remember correctly, the misfortune/folly tile bug is that the unknown appearance is a plain robe even though it has an artefact descriptor 13:22:02 HangedMan: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:22:25 <|amethyst> HangedMan: aah 13:22:34 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:00 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:48 I also remember fun tiles information problems like mislead not giving the little demon tier pentacle to things presented as demons while giving it always to things that actually are demons 13:34:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:05 Ragdoll: Fedhas would be completely broken in Zotdef. It has been removed for a reason. 13:36:16 not that zotdef isn't already fragile in so many ways 13:37:19 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:29 I meant broken gameplay, not stability. But perhaps you mean it has a fragile gameplay balance :) 13:37:37 galehar: true, but on the other hand zotdef balance is already nonexistant 13:37:46 so why make it worse? 13:37:48 <|amethyst> the relevant comment, btw: 13:38:06 <|amethyst> Don't allow Fedhas in ZotDef, as his invocations are duplicated, and passives thoroughly overpowered. Protection for plants, speed-up of oklobs, etc... Basically, ZotDef is Fedhas. 13:38:31 also rain... 13:38:55 because fedhas is an optional choice, plus it would add more fun/replayability 13:39:10 the replication isn't just better but drastically earlier 13:39:13 ... 13:39:54 Ragdoll: if you really want to play Fedhas in zotdef, just hack it and play locally, because it just won't happen. 13:40:16 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:16 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:41:03 fair enough 13:48:02 has anyone actually won zotdef without exploiting bugs yet? 13:50:13 it's not very hard on the first map if you use the hungerlessness to pretend to be a musu with de or te apts, then use plants to box in summons near the stairs 13:59:29 fr fedhasdef 13:59:53 defend your oklobs from waves of attacking orbs 14:01:44 speaking of zotdef, can the stat restoration timer be upped while in it and sprint so that it doesn't take forever and ever 14:14:03 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:15 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:56 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:30 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:51 Jaha, en albatross och 2 HIOs p� US Masters, f�rsta p� 77 �r. 14:48:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:51:54 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:53 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 15:25:19 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:17 03edlothiol * re03792648380 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/item/weapon/ (4 files): Center the new elven dagger and short sword tiles (#5512). 15:39:18 03edlothiol * rc62fb68775a5 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/config.py: Webtiles: Set dgl_mode back to on by default. 15:39:18 03edlothiol * r28b5c84ae8b2 10/crawl-ref/source/tileweb.cc: Webtiles: Fix a more at game load not being shown, looking instead like the game's just hanging (#5473). 15:40:38 edlothiol, any chance of adding ontoclasm's tiles for stuff while commiting tiles things? 15:40:59 which tiles exactly? 15:41:46 #5385 I guess 15:42:02 clouds, hell sentinel, gas trap 15:42:05 there's disturbance, transparent rocks 15:42:35 not sure about differentiating transparent rock and transparent stone in tiles since it'd be an advantage over console 15:42:54 you can x it in console though, can't you? 15:43:01 yes you can 15:43:12 so it's not an advantage 15:43:44 hell sentinel? 15:43:50 on-sight advantage? 15:43:58 btw, edlothiol, have you thought about my idea of drawing transparent clouds on top of monsters/features? 15:44:00 the pit fiend replacement 15:44:07 <|amethyst> the same is true for scrolls/potions/etc of known type 15:44:09 HangedMan: like a million other things 15:44:17 <|amethyst> you can tell what they are at a glance in tiles, but not in console 15:44:19 heh 15:44:22 there's no probem with tiles being more convenient 15:44:22 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * r83c1e2f5e59d 10/crawl-ref/source/tileweb.cc: Webtiles: Fix a more at game load not being shown, looking instead like the game's just hanging (#5473). 15:44:23 fair enough 15:44:48 the most important is probably wielded weapons 15:45:08 <|amethyst> the player can use different glyphs for stone vs rock, right? 15:45:40 galehar: haven't had much time for that in the last weeks, sadly 15:47:20 I have to ask the same question as Eronarn, what are hell sentinels? 15:47:30 edlothiol: right, but I mean do you like the idea? Do you think you could implement it? Or should I try to fit it in my schedule? 15:47:47 ?? hell sentinel 15:47:47 hell sentinel[1/1]: Replacement for pit fiends. Lots of AC, omniresistant, speed 10 to pit fiend's speed 8, spiny, casts hellfire and iron shot (but not torment). 15:47:51 <|amethyst> A towering monolith constructed and possessed by demonic forces. A thousand eyes leer through slits in its jagged, spiked armour. 15:47:54 new 1s to kill you in horrible ways 15:49:30 oh, ok 15:50:03 galehar: I think it would be good to have, but I have other priorities 15:51:08 yes, so do I :) 15:51:53 I'll let you know if I get around to do it so we don't code it both at the same time 15:52:55 ok 15:54:40 edlothiol: btw, what are your plans for 0.11? New features planned? 15:55:33 webtiles trunk? 15:56:05 performance improvements (webtiles processes take so much more cpu on cdo than normal ones), and mouse support (maybe even touch support if I have the time) :) 15:56:52 webtiles trunk depends mostly on Nap kin, though there are still a few things I can do to make it easier ;) 15:57:10 oh right 15:57:20 i forgot about that awful change 15:57:26 (why would you do that, whoever did that) 15:57:43 because nobody ever follows your linesw of thought, ever 15:58:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:43 also what is your opposition to hell sentinel anyway, and give them to the guy who just appeared 15:59:17 edlothiol: good. Performance improvements and mouse support are indeed high priorities :) 15:59:52 yeah, I keep poking at Napkin for webtiles trunk 15:59:56 now I know why I didn't find anything about hell sentinels in the source, I was still in the 0.10 branch :) 16:00:22 forgot to do it this weekend, but I haven't seen him in a while 16:00:25 !seen napkin 16:00:26 I last saw Napkin at Tue Apr 3 18:14:17 2012 UTC (5d 2h 46m 9s ago) saying please dont forget to re-enable the ones you would like, neunon on ##crawl-dev. 16:01:19 an update to webtiles 0.10 would also be good, it's missing quite a lot of bugfixes 16:01:33 HangedMan: not having 4 fiends 16:01:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 16:01:47 hah 16:01:47 i don't mind if hell sentinels exist, but not at the cost of a fiend 16:01:52 why would anyone care about the number of fiends? 16:02:11 alefury: because we have four hells, and the fiends map to them 16:02:18 they dont 16:02:29 four being death and the fiends symmetry across the hells is neat but who cares pit fiend was boring 16:02:33 not really, anyway 16:02:51 come up with iron fiend, then 16:02:54 alefury: pit fiends were iron fiends, pretty much 16:03:00 they even didn't have fly, originally 16:03:14 granted, they sucked, and i'm fine with changing them, but i want them to actually have a replacement rather than just being cut 16:03:23 defining features of iron fiend: hellfire 16:04:08 death fiend 16:04:10 lcs and torment! 16:04:18 (earth spells are very limited for monsters so unless something like one-turn-damaging-tomb-other was made iron fiend would have almost nothing anyway besides even more metal splinters use) 16:04:21 it definitely needs spikes 16:04:22 shrapnel breath! 16:04:24 i'm sure about that 16:04:30 "hell sentinel with torment" 16:04:37 what about a razor fiend 16:04:40 it is made of razors 16:04:52 the royal dancing weapon fiend 16:05:02 HangedMan: look up blade horror on the wiki 16:05:02 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:29 like I said 16:06:25 HangedMan: i actually like the damaging tomb idea 16:06:36 actually I had an idea for an earth spell that would be good in monster hands and contrast nicely with lrd since there's no monster lrd 16:06:37 what if it were a cage instead though? like grates 16:06:49 iron maiden 16:06:50 barbed wire 16:07:04 sure 16:07:17 oh man 16:07:23 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:25 barbed wire, ranged constriction + damage every time you try to get out? 16:07:28 that would rule 16:08:03 or maybe net instead of constriction, i guess 16:08:20 03edlothiol * r6f81262fd88a 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/demons/hell_sentinel.png: ontoclasm's new hell sentinel tile (#5385). 16:08:57 that + torment + ... ? 16:09:29 being slow isn't done by any 1s anymore 16:10:14 stone fiend with catoblepas breath 16:10:14 ice fiend has nothing besides bolt of cold, torment, and ridiculous af_cold, don't need to be too fancy 16:10:45 greaterdemonstabbing 16:12:03 maybe have it be relatively low HP, but great resists and EV 16:12:14 like a thin skeleton made out of barbed wire 16:13:08 great resists is already hell sentinel but having actual ev would be unique amongst greater demons 16:13:16 Executioner (151) | Speed: 20 | HD: 12 | Health: 50-86 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 30, 10, 10 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(144), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2377 | Sp: pain (d14), haste. 16:13:16 %?? executioner 16:13:23 well, dis stuff has great resists 16:13:32 if it's the dis fiend, it should resemble the branch 16:14:18 so it'll have ice and fire attacks?? 16:15:30 monster with tentacles of barbed wire 16:15:55 I can't tell what dis has besides boxiness (said tomb other) and irresistable things thrown around (still said tomb other) - st_dis has cacodemons, and all endings have two brimstone and two ice fiends 16:16:26 though metal splinters wouldn't be too bad at that rate, or bolt of magma 16:28:34 03edlothiol * rcba9ef4445e1 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Don't show the "detected monster" tile on top of shallow water disturbances. 16:30:27 edlothiol: have you seen the report on the tavern about terrible win7 performance? Any idea what might be causing it? 16:32:01 yeah, I suspect it's got something to do with the browser, I think canvas performance is very varied between browser versions and drivers 16:32:33 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:07 although he says he's tried all browsers, which is a problem with my theory... 16:35:42 <|amethyst> hm... I've got a Windows 7 laptop here; haven't tried webtiles with it 16:36:09 <|amethyst> then again, I haven't played webtiles at all so I guess I need to do that from this machine first so I have a baseline 16:37:44 he says he have something like a 1 second lag, so it's clearly not comparable to a slow machine or a slow network 16:38:06 <|amethyst> what was the bug number again? 16:38:40 there's no bug, just a forum thread 16:38:41 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4136 16:38:43 <|amethyst> ah 16:38:57 <|amethyst> btw, I sometimes get bursts of lag (a second or more) on CDO console 16:39:19 <|amethyst> but this sounds different from that 16:39:29 <|amethyst> it's certainly not every single action 16:42:06 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42:42 <|amethyst> I was about to say that my escape_hatch_up tile looks corrupted... but apparently it's supposed to be that way 16:46:25 <|amethyst> I can definitely reproduce it Chrome on W7 16:48:41 ok, and you're sure it's not normal lag? 16:49:06 what chrome version are you using, and what does about:gpu say? 16:49:18 <|amethyst> it feels a lot worse than on my Linux machine (chromium there) 16:49:37 ok 16:49:52 <|amethyst> says it's all accelerated... 3.2 graphics 16:50:12 <|amethyst> 18.0.1025.142 m 16:51:32 could you try it out in firefox, too? 16:51:55 <|amethyst> not right now, no FF installed there 16:52:02 <|amethyst> I could try IE... does it work in IE? 16:52:19 I don't think IE supports websockets 16:53:13 <|amethyst> I am getting a lot of "uncaught ReferenceError: sort is not defined" 16:53:52 <|amethyst> from /static/scripts/client.js:609 16:53:54 that shouldn't be a problem (though I should fix it) 16:54:08 <|amethyst> yeah, see those on Linux too 16:54:42 hmm, could you try a canvas benchmark like http://www.kevs3d.co.uk/dev/asteroidsbench/ ? 16:56:43 <|amethyst> 638 (14fps) as opposed to 884 (19fps) on the desktop 16:56:48 <|amethyst> it felt a lot worse though 16:57:12 <|amethyst> the first test was fine, but the wireframes and subsequent tests were painfully slow 16:58:01 that sounds like it's really a canvas performance problem :( 16:58:18 I get 2715, without hardware-accelerated canvas 16:58:47 <|amethyst> my desktop machine is kind of old, but it didn't feel terribly slow 16:59:17 <|amethyst> and on the desktop, canvas is software rendered 16:59:32 <|amethyst> in fact, everything is software rendered 17:00:26 <|amethyst> is there a way to disable acceleration in chrome? 17:01:06 run it with --disable-accelerated-2d-canvas 17:02:23 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:47 chrome 18.0.1025.151, everything HW accelerated, score 1920 (on a decent desktop computer) 17:03:02 <|amethyst> galehar: Windows 7? 17:03:03 webtiles perf are ok 17:03:10 yes , win7 64 bits 17:04:46 there's a noticeable lag between key press and display refresh. Maybe around 300ms. However, autoexplore is fast. 17:04:52 <|amethyst> with accel disabled, the asteroids benchmark is much faster (925, 20fps) 17:05:10 <|amethyst> but webtiles still feels slow compared to the desktop 17:05:43 <|amethyst> galehar: with explore_delay = 0 ? 17:05:46 <|amethyst> let me try that 17:06:07 explore_delay = 1 17:06:10 let me try 0 17:06:17 <|amethyst> I had -1 17:06:46 firefox 11.0, bench result 880 :/ 17:08:28 I'll add some code to measure the rendering time, and I'll look into doing less drawing (although I already try to only draw what's necessary) 17:08:38 <|amethyst> yeah, I don't think it's rendering 17:09:02 1 or 0 feels the same. It's funny, because when I hit o, there's a little pause then it starts and go fast. So (at least for me), it doesn't sound like a rendering problem at all. 17:09:03 <|amethyst> autoexplore is plenty fast 17:09:49 galehar: that sounds more like normal lag 17:10:08 although then it would be weird if it's different between OSs 17:11:01 -!- DaneiTWO has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:12:11 edlothiol: it doesn't feel like network lag though. And console is more responsive. 17:12:15 <|amethyst> In my case I wouldn't call it an order of magnitude worse, but at least twice as much delay after keypress 17:12:41 <|amethyst> on Windows as compared to Linux, that is 17:14:44 <|amethyst> still could be network related 17:15:00 <|amethyst> even if it's not network lag per se 17:15:19 <|amethyst> e.g. if websockets on windows did not do O_NDELAY while they did on Linux 17:16:27 <|amethyst> or does it use UDP? 17:16:45 no, it's tcp (it starts like a normal HTTP connection) 17:17:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:30 03edlothiol * r6532cf6f2b19 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/display.js: Webtiles: Time rendering. 17:18:41 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * rd6b8d035922c 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/display.js: Webtiles: Time rendering. 17:18:57 <|amethyst> hm... chrome is supposed to use TCP_NODELAY everwhere 17:20:17 03edlothiol * r6482c95da9a6 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/display.js: Fix a stupid mistake in the last commit. 17:20:17 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * r853a81af385a 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/display.js: Fix a stupid mistake in the last commit. 17:20:29 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:20:29 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:20:53 I tried chromium in a linux virtual box running on windows. Feels just like native chrome. 17:21:31 now it's just getting weirder 17:21:45 though I guess that points to a network problem 17:23:38 isn't there a whole back and forth communication between client and server at each step when autoexploring? 17:23:47 no 17:24:02 unless there's something going on I don't know about 17:25:01 no, I can't imagine how there would be 17:25:47 well, it really feels like there's a little lag for processing input. It's definitely slower than console. Maybe it's the webserver? 17:28:12 <|amethyst> hrm 17:28:33 it's very responsive for me, if it was the webserver I'd expect it to affect everyone 17:29:47 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:13 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:32:42 <|amethyst> hm 17:32:51 <|amethyst> so this improved the Windows performance somewhat: 17:32:56 <|amethyst> http://b.snapfizzle.com/2009/09/windows-7-nagles-algorithm-and-gaming/ 17:33:16 <|amethyst> just the TcpAckFrequency = 1 bit (Chrome already disables Nagle's algorithm) 17:33:58 <|amethyst> seems on par with the Windows performance now 17:34:00 <|amethyst> err 17:34:04 <|amethyst> with the Linux performance 17:35:39 <|amethyst> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/328890 has info on the meaning of that key 17:36:14 <|amethyst> setting it to 1 means every packet is acknowledged immediately 17:36:54 <|amethyst> the default (2) means it waits 200ms or until there is a second packet to acknowledge 17:37:04 * galehar tries it 17:37:26 <|amethyst> (remeber to reboot, though it's Windows so I guess that goes without saying) 17:37:33 interesting 17:40:14 <|amethyst> it's also interesting to hear that WoW uses TCP 17:42:18 yeah 17:43:21 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 17:46:56 hey it works! 17:47:03 very noticeable improvement 17:47:10 thanks |amethyst! 17:47:21 <|amethyst> well 17:47:25 <|amethyst> it's not great 17:47:39 <|amethyst> because this means you're doubling your upstream bandwidth usage for many things 17:48:02 no pb. 17:48:20 Orb mimics (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5545) by Zannick 17:48:20 my p2p is running on another computer and I don't do streaming :) 17:48:20 <|amethyst> :) 17:48:31 yay orb mimics! 17:48:39 no, I really have to scale their stats :) 17:48:48 <|amethyst> it's no good to tell our users to do this, though... it's kind of complicated to do, and we can't expect most people to be able to analyze the trade-offs 17:48:53 galehar: :) 17:49:47 |amethyst: well, I wouldn't put it in the official documentation, but I'm giving the tip to the guy on the tavern 17:50:00 I'll warn about the double upstream though 17:50:59 <|amethyst> ohh 17:51:02 <|amethyst> I see 17:51:10 <|amethyst> Linux uses 10ms for its delayed acks 17:51:13 <|amethyst> Windows uses 200ms 17:52:44 <|amethyst> hm, something else is saying 40ms in Linux 17:52:51 <|amethyst> it's definitely 200 in Windows though 17:53:41 200 ms is what the delay felt like yeah 17:55:14 <|amethyst> oh, apparently you can turn it down to 100 in windows 17:55:21 <|amethyst> TcpDelAckTicks = 0 17:55:25 <|amethyst> err 17:55:26 <|amethyst> = 1 17:56:04 <|amethyst> zero disables it altogether, so probably the same as setting the TcpAckFrequency to 1 18:01:22 -!- lord-naughty has left ##crawl-dev 18:14:25 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:10 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25:15 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:31 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:35:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:20 the branch has an internal name of "Vault" -- what about changing that to "Vaults"? 18:41:20 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:41:46 only if you go make that work with every single vault that uses it 18:42:01 sed 18:43:00 only if that doesn't miss anything 18:43:57 that's rather easy to spot, the .des file won't even load 18:44:39 and if something checks "Vault" as a string, '"Vault' is an obvious search 18:45:43 unlike the common thing, it's always capitalized 18:46:00 * HangedMan shrugs 18:46:21 on Crawl's side, it's a trivial change -- why I'm asking is Sequell's queries. 18:46:34 oh, eurgh 18:46:55 actually sequell seems to be fine with both 18:50:46 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:52:25 !lg * place=shoals s=place 18:52:27 1576 games for * (place=shoals): 680x Shoals:5, 240x Shoals:1, 239x Shoals:4, 209x Shoals:3, 208x Shoals:2 18:52:30 !lg * place=shoal s=place 18:52:31 1658 games for * (place=shoal): 680x Shoals:5, 240x Shoals:1, 239x Shoals:4, 209x Shoals:3, 208x Shoals:2, 27x Shoal:1, 23x Shoal:5, 12x Shoal:4, 11x Shoal:2, 9x Shoal:3 18:52:40 kilobyte: ^^ 18:53:05 elliptic: cool! 18:53:31 kilobyte: well, I don't call that s=place distinguishing between the two of them cool... 18:53:52 presumably sequell can be hacked to handle it reasonably though 18:55:10 !lg * place=shoals:3 s=place 18:55:11 209 games for * (place=shoals:3): 209x Shoals:3 18:55:14 !lg * place=shoal:3 s=place 18:55:14 218 games for * (place=shoal:3): 209x Shoals:3, 9x Shoal:3 18:55:42 Sequell's handling of shoals isn't the best but partly that's because nobody cares, since it was changed from shoal to shoals very early 18:56:05 !lg * place=Vault 18:56:05 4656. garbagetei the Eclecticist (L21 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, demolished by a two-headed ogre (a +0,+0 giant spiked club) (led by an ogre mage) on Vault:5 on 2012-04-08, with 286916 points after 88566 turns and 6:31:26. 18:56:07 !lg * place=Vaults 18:56:07 4656. garbagetei the Eclecticist (L21 DEFE), worshipper of Sif Muna, demolished by a two-headed ogre (a +0,+0 giant spiked club) (led by an ogre mage) on Vault:5 on 2012-04-08, with 286916 points after 88566 turns and 6:31:26. 18:57:11 it's really only the s=place queries that are a possible issue 18:58:34 giant areas of lava are kind of silly in cocytus, would it be any possible to make the layouts not place random chunks of liquids in inappropriate places 18:59:12 HangedMan: eh, what vault is that? 18:59:23 (possibly a layout one) 18:59:34 not sure 19:00:35 layout_misc or layout_basic at a glance and guess 19:01:05 is this a live game? 19:01:16 or wizmode? 19:01:31 live, do you want me to go back up to coc:1 to look around the floor some more 19:01:39 on CDO? 19:01:45 yes 19:02:00 I can nab your save, no need to even exit Crawl 19:04:39 "river" 19:23:13 kilobyte: I strongly support multilevel portal vaults 19:33:13 <|amethyst> any comments on Zannick's orb mimics patch? 19:33:41 wouldn't an orb mimic be just like any other sort of item mimic? 19:34:36 <|amethyst> more or less... the patch renames them to "orb mimic" rather than "Orb of Zot mimic", makes them shriek like the orb when discovered, and allows orb_two_ways to actually place one (1/10 chance) 19:34:58 talked about summons cap if people are interested https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:schools:feedback#summon_cap 19:35:39 03kilobyte * r7982998ec4f8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch-data.h mon-pick.cc mon-pick.h): A stub function for the monster set in Vaults. 19:35:39 03kilobyte * ra12973f92d43 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Use name rather than (int)enum for rivers/lakes on &^E 19:35:40 03kilobyte * rb939702a216f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Update some Donald speech. 19:35:49 03kilobyte * r19172b76fd99 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Don't let octa_room produce lava "floor" in Cocytus. 19:36:05 1/80 chance for an orb mimic, sounds good 19:36:54 you could make all the variants potentially have an orb mimic 19:37:05 by placing the real orb and fake orb near each other, symmetrically 19:37:10 probably would be a bad idea, though, would be too obvious 19:37:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:18 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:42:23 03kilobyte * r6e122962987e 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Use name not (int)enum for other layout extras as well. 19:48:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:43 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:34 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 19:51:52 High chances = bad, imho. 19:52:23 1/800 instead of 1/80? 19:52:55 of course there's a chance a person who gets two_ways doesn't even see the mimic 19:52:56 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:45 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:54:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:40 once in 80 games sounds good 20:01:27 it's not like a typical person has 80 wins and Orb run deaths 20:02:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:11:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:24:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:27:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:29:17 -!- HousePet has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:35 Is it just me or does Warding feel like it could use a buff? I mean the amulet gives rN+, but I mean the actual effect of warding 20:32:20 30 mr is a pretty low check 20:32:36 its seemed okay to me, but i haven't really got very far... 20:32:40 It's not really just that though, It doesn't seem to work against anything ranged 20:33:01 Is that by design? 20:33:34 Because I did have an idea to buff it in a way, but I wanted to see if it was neccesary at all 20:34:23 the actual effect of warding should be buffed, yes... currently it has a pretty bad MR check 20:34:42 it could do with improving somehow, definitely 20:35:05 I don't think it needs to work against ranged stuff, it just needs to work against better summons than spammals and imps 20:35:11 ah 20:35:35 30 mr works on hell beasts! 20:35:50 I was thinking that it could force all summoned creatures to pass a percentile check or else they would do a cantrip instead of whatever action they were going to do, wasting a turn on their part 20:36:14 probably better to make it just one pip again too, and make the amulet not stack with the staff 20:36:30 because that doesn't really ever change anything 20:36:47 probably just changing it to 45 or something like that instead of 30 would be fine... or don't use MR 20:36:52 MarvinPA: yeah 20:37:12 mottie: only affecting actual attacks makes much more sense 20:37:53 it isn't an amulet of slowing down all summons who are in sight 20:38:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:32 Summons in general could use a nerfing, then it'd all be nonissue 20:38:41 apparently OP 20:38:50 there aren't that many ranged summons anyway really aside from greater demons, who shouldn't be affected that much by warding anyway 20:39:23 mottie: many enemy summons were nerfed in 0.10 20:39:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:42 ah, how so? 20:39:50 fewer of them 20:40:14 liches used to summon multiple greater demons at a time, for instance 20:40:15 does it have a chance of working on summons with more than 30 mr? 20:40:17 right , most of the time I only have a problem with them in elf 20:41:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:18 henzell won't give me a formula 20:41:35 I assume it's a power 30 'enchantment' against MR 20:41:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:15 HousePet: it succeeds when random2(100)+random2(101) >= 100 + MR - power 20:43:23 or maybe > 20:43:47