00:01:44 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:56 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-728-g7daf38e (32) 01:12:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:22 -!- Ganrao| has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:19:46 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:57 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-728-g7daf38e 01:28:34 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:41:45 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:53 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 3.6.27/20120216013254]] 02:02:25 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:03:57 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:13 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:19:10 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:13 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:26 -!- blueDave has left ##crawl-dev 02:50:23 XP value of lair branch ends are all over the place 02:50:25 Swamp:5 24k, Shoals:5 30k, Spider:5 38k, Snake:5 42k 02:51:08 one of the snake endings can go above 50k 02:52:42 It's the lava one - that one is the highest xp of any lair branch end, that I know of. Snake endings tend to be high in general 02:53:06 although levels 1-4 tend to be lower than swamp, and I think shoals 02:54:16 (my way of finding this info is crude though, so whatever you have is a lot more reliable) 02:56:06 crawl -script place-population.lua Snake:5 02:56:48 hmm got an assert. I guess that doesn't work in tiles builds 03:27:23 looks like it yeah 03:32:56 another idea to encourage early runes: Wizlabs have a small locked room with 1-3 acquirement-level items. 03:33:04 need a rune of zot to enter it of course 03:36:40 I think loot works better as a motivator than runes. Although, wizlabs are already really hard (I do maybe half that I find... or even less) 03:36:54 err sorry, I meant to say "better than xp" 03:38:39 well, all those ideas are complementary, not exclusive 03:39:04 I was thinking of giving XP for runes, adding some loot to lair branch ends and a locker in wizlabs 03:39:33 the latter is the least important, but I find it thematic 03:41:29 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:06 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:54:22 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 03:56:16 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:39 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:53 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:53 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:59 -!- Pingas has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:05 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:01 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:01 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:58 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:19 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:50 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:17 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:00:09 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-703-g0e8c877 06:08:19 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-728-g7daf38e 06:26:21 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:06:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:05 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:43:32 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:02 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 08:51:52 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:41 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 09:31:09 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:21 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:40 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:21 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:46 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:33 * SamB wonders why autoexplore doesn't seem to try to see as much as possible through trees 10:35:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:06 it does, but it tries to see unreachable cells only after having explored all reachable ones 10:40:23 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:01 oh 10:42:37 maybe I shouldn't have said "doesn't try" 10:43:02 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:02 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:26 and I find the "unreachable last" thing fairly annoying in Temple, also 10:43:51 though I grant that it at least allows explore to finish in smoke-surrounded Temple vaults 10:44:12 (I mean "finish" in the sense that it finds everything actually interesting) 10:44:51 If you think you can improve it, go ahead! :) 10:45:21 03kilobyte * rcba5b16c7568 10/crawl-ref/source/ (errors.cc errors.h files.cc package.cc): Offer to delete corrupted saves. 11:20:26 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:35 another idea for grates. Let's define them as semi-solid. Ranged attacks and reaching can go through them but they have a chance (coinflip?) of being blocked. 11:25:51 smiting and clouds go through no problem 11:26:01 apportation is blocked 11:26:12 maybe lightning could be grounded 11:26:52 * galehar leaves now 11:26:54 'later 11:32:54 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:57 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:49 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:44 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:40 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:32 -!- chrisoelmueller is now known as ChrisOelmueller 12:46:49 how would I go about defining a randart ring with all randart properties that can be on a ring 12:47:00 for testing moth of suppression more easily 12:47:11 is it just like a bitmask of 0b11111111111111111111111111111111111 12:47:47 no 12:47:50 this is crawl code 12:48:37 your best bet is probably an unrand with all the possible properties there 12:53:58 <|amethyst> do the UC ranks for gladiators still make sense? 12:54:49 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:55:33 i don't think they ever made sense really 12:56:34 doesn't seem like a particularly worthwhile/relevant thing to start with 12:57:11 although if you mean just in terms of how aux attacks work now, you do still need uc if you don't have horns or whatever i think 12:58:31 <|amethyst> oh, right... still affects the chance, just not the damage etc 13:12:36 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 13:34:19 Awarewolf (L13 CeBe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1388 failed. (Lair:8) 13:52:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:12 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:01 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:40 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:00 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:17 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:31:01 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:43 about my earlier grate suggestion, a chance to block ranged attacks might get complicated with several grates in a row. 14:34:05 but a chance to block reaching makes sense, just like when reaching through a hostile monster 14:52:56 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:59:19 question: I'm going through the code getting rid of all these explicit "check if you're wearing this amulet" checks when it really should be "check if you have some effect that as of this moment only this amulet confers" 14:59:47 but some amulets have several effects 14:59:54 by which I mean amulet of rage 15:00:17 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:21 do we want to make this "rage extension" thing into an effect or just leave it as a unique property of the amulet 15:09:49 <|amethyst> is it different from trog rage extension? 15:11:37 <|amethyst> ah, I see, the numbers differ 15:12:44 galehar: did you hear the suggestion i had for it? make everything that blocks LOE/LOS use a unified blocking chance. like: 0-6 where 0 is nothing, 3 is loe blocked but los not, and 6 is los and loe totally blocked (1 tree = +3) 15:13:53 so if you fire: @#..P..7.. with grate = 2, bush = 2, tree = 3. you'd have a (total, not multiplicative) 2/6 chance to hit the grate, 2/6 chance to hit the plant, 2/6 chance to hit the tree, and you couldn't see beyond the tree 15:14:04 because 2+2+3 >= 6 15:15:04 the display would be something like: (nothing), slightly obscured, obscured, heavily obscured, almost totally blocked, totally blocked 15:18:49 <|amethyst> you could write that multiplicatively as 2/6 to hit the grate, 2/4 to hit the plant, and 2/2 to hit the tree 15:19:19 <|amethyst> where 4 and 2 are what's left over after subtracting the opacity so far 15:19:32 <|amethyst> what about creatures? 15:20:06 |amethyst: i think it should only be used for tree, wall, etc. creatures 15:20:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:26 if you fire at a plant, you should have a normal hit chance, then a (blockage)/6 chance that it intercepts your miss anyways, and then it continues after that 15:20:50 <|amethyst> does being intercepted do full damage to the plant? 15:21:09 <|amethyst> s/being intercepted/intercepting a shot/ 15:21:12 undecided... it'd make sense that it just gets stuck in the branches 15:21:26 and firing directly at it is just shooting at the trunk 15:21:33 <|amethyst> but for a puff of flame, maybe not 15:21:36 then again there's stuff like... yeah 15:21:56 <|amethyst> could be checked by the beam 15:22:18 <|amethyst> s/checked by/specified by/ 15:23:26 one potential problem with this would be how it interacts with clouds, but i haven't thought about that too much 15:24:10 <|amethyst> if a cloud "intercepts" the shot, it keeps going but becomes a guaranteed miss 15:25:27 <|amethyst> or maybe they don't intercept at all 15:27:26 |amethyst: i'd be fine with them intercepting shots via auto-miss, but it would be a change in behavior 15:27:31 arguably a good one, but 15:28:30 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:38 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:40 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 15:28:50 <|amethyst> if you keep their current opacity (2 block LOS), it'd be 3, which might be a bit too much for interception purposes 15:30:05 <|amethyst> you could make it so they don't intercept themselves, but do decrease the denominator, so shooting through a cloud then a grate has a 1/3 chance to work, and two clouds and a grate no chance 15:30:30 <|amethyst> or they could just be ignored entirely by beams, which I guess is the current behaviour 15:33:01 <|amethyst> 1/5 chance of 1d3 int drain 15:33:02 <|amethyst> doh 15:35:12 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:20 |amethyst: well, a 50% miss chance for stuff through (some) clouds doesn't sound too horrible 15:35:25 since a second cloud would block los totally 15:36:15 it'd also make it possible to have clouds that are only 1, rather than 3 - so they don't normally block LOS, but do provide cover 15:36:24 <|amethyst> but a 100% miss chance through two clouds seems a bit much (e.g. fog in a corridor then aim a wand in the enemy's direction) 15:37:30 |amethyst: corridors are pretty wide, they fit dragons through them :) 15:37:44 <|amethyst> but 100%? 15:38:25 maybe have 'off target' attacks - ones that ended up being unaimed - just do an attack with very low accuracy 15:39:35 i'm not sure that it's a bad thing to be unable to hit stuff through LOS-blocking clouds though 15:39:36 Eronarn: a single dragon, but not two bees 15:39:36 <|amethyst> that could work... out-of-sight lightning bolt should probably be treated the same way 15:39:54 <|amethyst> and 99 dragon corpses 15:40:07 +1 to LOS-blocking clouds blocking missiles 15:40:52 how about confusing clouds redirect missiles 15:41:04 <|amethyst> err 15:41:19 Dixbert: no 15:41:21 <|amethyst> why would an arrow suddenly swerve when it goes through noxious fumes? 15:41:29 <|amethyst> seething chaos, I could understand 15:41:36 kilobyte: one issue would be stuff like fireballs 15:41:48 which would just explode the first thing they hit 15:41:49 speaking of LOS blocking clouds... is there a reason why holy flames block LOS? 15:42:02 <|amethyst> too bright to see through? 15:42:04 Not many cloud types do this. seems strange pearl dragon breath is one of them 15:42:06 evilmike: to spare you from being in sight of more holy things, I guess 15:42:10 |amethyst: we should totally make seething chaos rarely polymorph missiles/spells that pass through it 15:42:17 ask due about that 15:42:23 I guess "too bright to see through" could be the reason 15:42:49 i think that should go, they should work like non-holy flames 15:43:06 <|amethyst> fire is also too bright to see through :) 15:43:10 and i don't think normal flames should be los blocking (unless we implement lower opacity clouds) 15:43:20 I think forest fire clouds can block vision but normal fire doesn't 15:43:22 <|amethyst> s/is also/should also be/ 15:44:45 <|amethyst> I'd think flames should be at least as los-blocking as smoke, since you can't actually have smoke in the same square 15:45:07 I figure that's how forest fires work 15:45:11 <|amethyst> hm 15:45:17 <|amethyst> that makes sense 15:45:18 I don't know about other flame clouds though, they could be smokeless 15:45:43 (they don't block vision, I just assume that's because they have no smoke) 15:45:56 -!- [1]capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:21 <|amethyst> but if I'm in the middle of a firestorm, I wouldn't think I'd be able to see all that far 15:46:30 <|amethyst> what with being surrounded by fire 15:46:45 forest fires was a quick hack, they're meant to represent a partially burned tree 15:47:04 <|amethyst> oh, so they block vision like trees 15:47:09 should be unpassable, but I didn't put a lot of effort there 15:47:25 that's the intent, IIRC they don't 15:47:27 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:47:35 -!- [1]capablanca is now known as mikee_ 15:47:36 |amethyst: I just wouldn't want to block vision with regular fire... it would be too easy for the player to cheese that 15:47:47 eg cast fire storm to block vision, or poison cloud + ignite poison 15:47:49 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess that's true 15:48:04 g - the +9 armour of the Dragon King (rpois rF+ rC+ MR) 22752 gold 15:48:17 MarvinPA: the other day nfogravity found one for the same price :P 15:48:17 this reminded me that i think a while ago someone in here suggested stepping down absurd prices 15:48:27 MarvinPA: ok, looks like there's no point in waiting for that fluent stepdown thingy 15:48:30 yeah its been brought up several times. no one proposed a formula though 15:48:44 yeah, i just started messing around with it but don't have any good numbers 15:48:58 it's 3-5k to enter a zig, right? 15:48:59 months ago I remeber proposing something really simple 15:49:17 like, after 2000 gold, cut it in half 15:49:30 I think that's too crude though 15:49:45 i'd suggest putting a hard upper bound on prices 15:50:01 and then making prices for things above 2000 gold approach that bound asymptotically 15:50:02 i put in a stepdown from 1000 to 10000 (in steps of 1000) just to see what would happen 15:50:17 that's super-easy to implement 15:50:34 which made dragon king cost 8366, and sword of jihad 11073 (from 50000 previously!) 15:50:53 still unreasonable, right? 15:51:28 well you could at least feasibly get that much gold in a game, heh 15:51:33 but yeah, still a bit crazy 15:51:42 why the hell is it 50k in the first place? 15:51:44 lemme come up with a function, hang on 15:51:45 well, 8k is maybe okay 15:51:50 Is that from the base item, or the various properties it has, or what? 15:52:14 we discussed this before, remember? 15:53:10 probably missed it, or wasn't paying close enough attention. I'll just look it up myself 15:53:15 there was a consensus that stepdown with a step of 1000 is about right but a fluent function would be better 15:53:25 too late, pushed :p 15:53:27 it's a eudemon blade so high base cost, then holy brand is a multiplier, then massive pluses are multipliers 15:53:33 aha, excellent 15:53:35 03kilobyte * r5c0e7b628d2d 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Step down insane item prices. 15:53:37 thanks :) 15:53:45 (not exactly sober, please review and/or fix and/or revert :p) 15:54:14 i'm a mathematician, give me like two minutes :D 15:55:23 stepdown_value() is mostly a logarithm, but not exactly, as it is perfectly linear before the first step 15:56:12 the value of the orb and runes aren't important for anything anymore, right? 15:56:33 not anymore, yeah 15:56:59 not a single reference to item_value() in hiscores.cc 15:57:18 unless someone wants to do something crazy like sell them in a sprint item shop, in which case 10k is still plenty i imagine :P 15:57:42 there is one piece where carried stuff is relevant: you get points for collected but unspent gold 15:59:08 I thought that was completely removed after ragdoll figured out what you could do with that 16:00:06 yeah, there's one point of anti-Ragdoll protection: std::min(you.gold, 1000000) 16:01:10 the guy's amazing, and has a great talent at pointing what to fix :p 16:01:32 not sure if there's any point of giving any score for gold at all, though 16:08:52 what did ragdoll do with gold? 16:10:12 he found a way to clone tens of thousands of acquirement scrolls, acquired gold, and ended his gamed (died) with exactly 27 million points 16:10:44 cloning acquirement scrolls??? 16:10:52 he did it by getting maurice to steal scrolls, banishing him, and then leaving the abyss with maurice next to him 16:11:01 doing this left a copy in the abyss, and a copy in the dungeon 16:11:18 haha 16:11:23 he's crazy 16:11:31 he should play NH :) 16:35:21 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:59 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:50 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:21 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r52b057e379b3 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix "clumsily bash" messages not appearing 16:38:22 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r03d014d7ea4f 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.reST: Manual fixes from the wiki (parts relevant to 0.10). 16:38:22 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r2412c1513ee7 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix an incorrect glyph in monster_shover 16:38:22 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rfaf1c4487688 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix orc priests cheating with monster shoving to avoid constriction. 16:38:23 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.10 * rb06388e5c0ff 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Jellies don't eat item mimics. 16:38:23 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r1dc57fdeb814 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Since paladins don't cast spells, remove their spellcaster flag. 16:38:26 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * r98fdba8aa8d1 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/server.py: Webtiles: Don't allow new connections while shutting down. 16:38:26 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * r923a4fba4503 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/server.py: Webtiles: Write the PID to the logfile. 16:39:15 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:00 picked jellies but not Trog's ignite spellbooks because the former was trivial, the latter not -- and you have no way to exploit that anyway 16:44:33 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:21 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:21 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:04 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:11:11 so how long does it take you guys to make crawl, and how frequently do you do that (after every change or after many)? 17:12:24 st_: like half an hour or more on my netbook, like two minutes on my home computer 17:12:28 and that's with -j2 17:12:37 I've never timed it. I'd guess maybe 2-4 minutes for a full build, on this computer 17:13:11 where do you define new randarts 17:13:26 you mean unrands? 17:13:27 I need a randart with all randart effects to more easily test suppression 17:13:29 yes 17:13:36 clearly this would not be available to spawn in-game 17:15:20 edit art-data.txt 17:15:38 it has a big comment at the top 17:15:58 New sub-command in map-mode ('X') that allows to annotate any level. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5484) by CommanderC 17:15:59 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 17:16:32 that looks handy 17:16:46 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:21:03 flame clouds out of LoS detected by autotravel (I think) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5485) by Geodew 17:22:41 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 17:22:51 Wensley: what's -j2 do? 17:23:08 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:23:11 st_: if you do make -j2, make will use multiple processor cores 17:23:15 2, in that case 17:23:21 -j3 would use 3 17:23:38 but the higher the number the more likely you are to run into like deadlocks and stuff 17:23:48 at least this is how I understand it 17:23:50 ah I see 17:23:58 if you just do -j it will automatically use all cores available 17:24:12 kilobyte: Arachne kill! 17:24:46 oh man 17:24:47 !tv * killer=Arachne 17:24:47 1. hayenne, XL14 TeAE, T:37039 requested for FooTV. 17:25:18 !lg * killer=Arachne x=src 17:25:18 1. [src=cdo] hayenne the Eclecticist (L14 TeAE), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by Arachne (a staff of poison) on Spider:2 on 2012-03-24, with 61528 points after 37039 turns and 2:18:02. 17:26:32 !lg * killer=arachne x=dam 17:26:32 1. [dam=25] hayenne the Eclecticist (L14 TeAE), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by Arachne (a staff of poison) on Spider:2 on 2012-03-24, with 61528 points after 37039 turns and 2:18:02. 17:26:36 cao froze over 100 commits ago, what a shame 17:27:07 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:42 there's just been a lot of activity lately 17:32:38 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:02 evilmike: is it okay if I don't bother giving a tile to this wizmode-only unrand 17:34:38 the mighty question mark club 17:34:53 Wensley: so this is an unrand that's just for debugging is it? 17:35:00 evilmike: yes 17:35:27 if it can never show up in a game, a tile is pretty low priority. just make sure you cant get it in some weird way 17:35:39 well I see there's a "nogen" property 17:35:44 though I haven't fully read the docs yet 17:36:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:36:06 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:36:16 but it is a huge pain spawning hundreds of rings and managing them trying to test each of these effects 17:36:25 ah, that's understandable 17:36:51 so, this item has all the effects on it? 17:37:05 evilmike: well I'd probably have two so that I could test opposite effects 17:37:13 so like one would have *tele and str+3 17:37:20 and one would have -tele and str-3 17:37:24 I see 17:37:34 so one would be the best artifact ever, the other the worst 17:37:39 yes 17:37:45 we could spawn the worst one 17:37:54 then put it in zigsprint 17:38:14 I wonder if you could condense it to "-Everything" 17:38:40 actually never mind, that wouldn twork. i guess it would have *tele and *rage and such 17:38:43 I don't think all of the properties can stack like that 17:38:57 evilmike: remember how you were saying how it was awkward to have tests for you.suppressed() all through the codebase? I finished abstracting all those checks into player effects 17:38:59 wiz / fire / sustab 17:39:13 evilmike: the changes are on my gitorious branch if you want to check it out 17:39:42 evilmike: and you can even merge it into trunk if you feel like 17:39:57 <-- ultra paranoid about bitrot 17:40:00 Wensley: I think someone else said that 17:40:10 I will look at your branch though, after I'm done with this spider stuff 17:42:46 Wensley: i have a bunch of bitrotted branches, go fix them :D 17:43:00 only if they have spider clouds 17:43:42 I have no interest in forest wyrms at the moment 17:44:32 do you have interest in silly hats? 17:45:08 Wensley: spider clouds are up on my github, yes 17:45:11 swarms branch 17:45:29 st_: I think crawl already has silly hats 17:45:33 have you tried tiles mode 17:45:58 were you not around for the silly hat patch? 17:45:59 wow 17:45:59 those are silly helmets 17:46:04 completely different from silly hats 17:46:07 no but I have seen wiglaf's tile 17:53:32 Wensley: no, -j means -j infinity 17:54:08 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:09 which is ok for a lot of tasks, but certainly not C++ which takes ridiculous amounts of memory per-job 18:01:50 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:38 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:54 summoned creatures cannot pass by you (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5486) by simon1tan 18:12:06 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:24 kilobyte: well that would explain why it never worked for me :P 18:22:03 summoned creatures do not attack by default (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5487) by simon1tan 18:24:26 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:44 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26:50 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:52 Wensley: bare -j may be useful when coupled with -l, although load average doesn't have a good reputation 18:29:47 unlike C, compiling C++ is nearly completely CPU-bound, so -j`grep ^processor /proc/cpuinfo|wc -l` is basically always the right thing 18:30:02 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:01 is it possible to have an item with negative magic resistance 18:52:05 or rather would that work 18:52:15 without being buggy 18:54:00 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 18:54:49 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:34 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:03 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:18 magic vulnerability? It should work, but some buginess can happen since it's untested 19:11:16 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:23 that sounds like a good thing to add on some unrand 19:12:27 if nothing else 19:12:48 just wondering if I should put it on one of my uber unrands that are testing all randart properties 19:13:21 The -5 robe of Folly {Archmagi Int+6 MR- rF- rC- Curse} 19:13:51 then it's not a misfortune clone but less interesting! 19:15:37 HangedMan: actually, what about making it just be a huge -MR, but not rF/rC/neg ench 19:15:48 a robe that a wizard made that sucks in all kinds of ambient magic 19:16:09 sounds neat, but also of use in whatever places don't involve mr 19:16:22 of rather great use in 19:16:38 that's fine 19:16:48 it doesn't need to be a bad item, nobody uses bad items 19:17:19 people might use bad items if they have some vital property 19:17:32 like a terrible item that has rcorr and they have no alternative and want to do slime 19:17:35 i like that idea of -mr 19:18:41 the +0 mittens of Playfulness (permanent confusing touch, -100 MR) 19:18:59 you'd want +curse on that 19:19:34 Wensley: that's a nice idea but in practice most games you will get a normal version of the item 19:19:47 the set of games where you don't get the normal version but do get the unrand version is very, very small 19:19:48 right 19:20:02 it works better if it's adom-like unrands where generation is guaranteed 19:20:09 FR +curse as randart property, not only on scythe of curses 19:20:20 isn't it already 19:20:23 no 19:20:46 there are *so many things* that are just properties of a single item 19:20:52 rather than effects 19:20:59 and it's sad because it looks pretty trivial to do otherwise 19:21:12 Wensley: so start doing it :) 19:21:25 unify, unify 19:21:32 Eronarn: I am too busy unrotting your branches 19:21:36 you will have to do it 19:21:42 i'm too busy working on my RL 19:21:45 in the meantime, hangedman can unrot my branches 19:22:06 no lava orcs, but it has hexes 19:22:16 I don't even know what unrotting branches is 19:22:30 HangedMan: bitrot is when old code stops working because the code around it changes 19:22:36 oh 19:22:37 (or it's brought to a new architecture, etc.) 19:22:57 it can also happen in the mythical sense where old code stops working even if as far as you know everything else has stayed the same 19:23:14 considering I have lost access to some vault wips of mine I am not in the mood to be delving into code 19:23:32 wensley go delegate your work elsewhere 19:23:45 I might actually have to turn all item-checks into effect-checks anyway to make suppression work 19:23:51 HangedMan: delegate for me plz 19:23:58 <-- leadership 19:24:03 crawl code is so dumb 19:25:03 how old is the crawl codebase anyway? it's impressive the game works as well as it does given its age :P 19:25:13 Eronarn: that's true, but I also think that this is the natural tendency of a project that has had a whole lot of contributors in a very disorganized manner and of wildly variable experience levels 19:25:25 presumably there are still some bits of code from pre-stone-soup 19:25:47 fr: comprehensive refactoring 19:25:57 Dixbert: yes, we do that a lot 19:26:02 see nfogravity 19:26:07 Chousuke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linley%27s_Dungeon_Crawl 19:26:12 fr: a pony :P 19:26:15 and last year's fight rewrite 19:26:24 Chousuke: that'll have to wait for me to make kelpies 19:26:35 dcss is actually organized pretty well 19:26:38 from what i've seen 19:26:50 trampling's good, constriction's good, trampling constriction must be good 19:26:52 hahhano 19:26:52 it's not like maddening lovecraft code 19:26:55 i haven't had to hunt too long for the function i'm looking for 19:26:59 but it is suboptimal 19:27:05 yeah i'm aware 19:27:07 but once again this is only natural 19:27:12 stuff is spread over a million files and there are certain bits of code that are just maddeningly complicated for no real reason 19:27:14 I want to clean up like fifty vault codes 19:27:14 it could be way way worse though 19:27:16 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:22 like beams 19:27:24 holy shit, beams 19:27:26 oh god beams 19:27:39 beams does so many different things 19:27:48 any ranged effect ever 19:27:51 support pillars 19:28:01 yeah the beam/ranged/casting code can just go die 19:28:17 it's holding me back on alchemists because i don't have the willpower to figure out how to even replicate a simple existing effect 19:28:30 I suppose that's just what happens with code that accumulates features and loses them and then accumulates them again :P 19:28:39 i had trouble finding something in beams but i can't remember what now 19:28:49 but as long as you stick to generally only doing things that have precedents in the code, you can generally get along with enough effort 19:28:57 I mean we have no unit tests so go hog wild 19:28:57 clearly what crawl needs is to stop adding new things so it can fix up old things 19:29:08 Wensley: you should go look up how i did my swarm code :) 19:29:08 or you can pull a firefox 19:29:10 stuff that works doesn't get changed until it breaks 19:29:14 keep pressing forward no time to clean 19:29:17 isn't there something, uh 19:29:22 dungeon olms? 19:29:27 that's not unit testing 19:29:29 i'm p good at writing unit tests 19:29:30 that's UI testing 19:29:38 oh 19:29:40 so if you start on unit test compliance i can help 19:29:41 usability specifically, i think 19:30:07 Dixbert: talk to nfogravity, he's doing fight simulator stuff 19:30:14 nobody wants to write unit tests from zero for a codebase this huge 19:30:20 you gotta do that from the start 19:30:25 otherwise nobody can ever care 19:30:27 you have to start on one section at a time 19:30:33 it's really hard to get to decent coverage though 19:30:36 * Wensley can't care 19:30:42 and get contributors to write tests 19:30:42 the most useful test you could write at this point would be not a unit test, but a balance test 19:30:56 yeah the balance testing is interesting and exciting to me 19:31:38 i'm really liking programming in python because i can just stick the test/debug functions at the end of the relevant file and run it directly 19:31:52 i really need to improve my py skills 19:31:54 i usually just end up implementing new features in the file itself 19:33:47 Eronarn: have you seen doctest 19:34:07 you don't even need to put them at the end of the file, you can put them before every function! 19:37:10 Wensley: i don't want them before every function, that makes the file completely unreadable 19:37:16 i want them nearby, but isolated 19:38:04 Eronarn: the idea is to put one or two example tests that look like repl output in the docstring of each function 19:38:47 so if you use the repl to test your functions as you write them you can just copy and paste the repl output into the docstring and then run doctest for regression testing to ensure your documentation is up-to-date 19:40:31 and I sure do hope you're going to the trouble of using docstrings if you expect this to be a major project, it's quite nice for code exploration 19:41:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:45:53 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:53:25 Wensley: it's just a personal RL project, i comment stuff but i haven't done anything with docstrings yet 19:59:35 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:05 fun fact: randarts wits -MP do nothing 20:03:33 but for some reason this randart with MP+10 is giving me +20 20:03:59 no, wait, it does work 20:04:02 I'm just ultra stupid 20:04:25 that sounds like you had another +10 source somewhere 20:05:33 ChrisOelmueller: basically I went directly from my -10 artefact to my +10 artefact and then wondered aloud with the -10 was doing nothing and the +10 was giving me +20 20:08:58 nice 20:09:08 are there any -MP items currently? 20:09:17 don't think so 20:09:24 no 20:09:24 antimagic weapons, but they dont count 20:09:25 aside from antimagic things 20:09:39 there's but one -HP item, too 20:10:37 evilmike: did you get a chance to look at my branch 20:10:53 Wensley: not until tonight 20:11:02 basically there is still a big problem with suppression not causing your stats/hp/defenses to be recalculated 20:11:10 but that's okay because moths still don't spawn naturally 20:11:17 and other than that things are a lot cleaner 20:11:19 but also! 20:11:23 resist mutation is a crapshoot 20:11:33 we really need to go through and make it more consistent 20:11:38 zin / mutation / amulet 20:11:39 you mean how there's like 3 or 4 different kinds of it? 20:11:42 anything else? 20:11:46 halflings 20:11:54 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:58 a lot of places only check for the amulet, and a lot of places also check for the res mut mutations, and some places apply different weights to the resistances conferred by each mutation 20:12:03 have the first form of the mutation, right? 20:12:30 oh, I guess so 20:12:59 xom, zin, jiyva, polymorph other, potions, mutagenic fog, glow? 20:13:10 I'd really like to move *all* resist mutation checks into the player_res_mutation function 20:13:15 and polymorph brand 20:13:17 but as of this moment that would change a lot of numbers 20:18:48 go for it, bro 20:21:32 are any devs also urging me to go for it and potentially change the probabilities of a bunch of things 20:21:49 Eronarn; not necessarily a good influence 20:22:06 nrook: don't worry I am immune to bad influence 20:22:08 I'm already crazy 20:22:21 the reason I am not a dev is because my ideas are, if anything, too good 20:22:30 too radical, they said 20:22:37 oh wait you'd be actually changing probabilities 20:22:42 just merge the things 20:22:49 yes because right now there is no unified way of doing things 20:25:16 nrook: i'm a great influence what are you talking about B) 20:25:21 OCTOPODES AND SILLY HATS FOR ALL 20:25:36 more like lava orcs and forest wyrms forever 20:25:57 also I still don't know what silly hats were 20:26:17 HangedMan: i wrote a patch that added top hats, fedoras, moccasins, clogs, etc. to crawl 20:26:34 probably 30 variant items 20:26:42 the difference between this and golden / horned / visored / spiked / whatever helmet is 20:27:05 you don't get an unarmed attack bonus for wearing a spiked top hat! 20:27:09 wait, I think that's nethack 20:27:22 Eronarn: did you include monocles? 20:28:00 HangedMan: well it was these parts a) three-tiered slot protection/wearability values b) several cosmetic variants for all slots, in both uncommon and rare c) cosmetic changes appearing for randarts 20:28:08 a) went over really, really, really badly 20:28:11 oh 20:28:14