00:25:48 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:14 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:26 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:03:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-695-g65dd86f (32) 01:17:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:16 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-695-g65dd86f 01:38:13 Two entry maps (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5478) by kofrad 01:41:48 <|amethyst> 'monster' is segfaulting on wiglaf 01:41:54 Error calling monster-trunk: 01:41:54 <|amethyst> %??wiglaf 01:41:57 <|amethyst> @??wiglaf 01:42:55 <|amethyst> in SQL_DBM::init_query() while it's trying to make a random artefact name 01:43:18 Maxwell's Patent Armour not showing up in the starting area of Sprint V (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5479) by pivotal 01:45:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:06 -!- ketsa has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:09:17 03evilmike * r0c6cb346eae5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Remove demonic crawler from demons_altar. 02:09:27 03evilmike * r6e8b518ab4eb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint_v.des: Zig sprint tweak. 02:22:07 03nick.cardullo * r6d26b9cdaffc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/simple.des: Added new entry map "ncdulo_lavacross" 02:22:13 03nick.cardullo * r279a116f802c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/simple.des: Added new entry map "ncdulo_wetmaze" 02:22:23 03evilmike * r6c7fc185d637 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/simple.des: Some edits to ncdulo's entry vaults. 02:24:01 <|amethyst> looking for suggestions on how to fix monster. If _place_monster_aux() and give_monster_item() give the monster a randart, there will be a crash trying to name it because the db is not initialized 02:24:12 <|amethyst> but I'd rather not have to initialize the DB on every call to monster 02:26:47 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte a new version of monster-trunk is at http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git/ . It adds AF_ENSNARE and fixes a compilation problem caused by the monster_type changes 02:26:47 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:27:27 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte it (and earlier versions) crashes on wiglaf or any other monster to whom it tries to give a randart 02:27:28 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 02:44:05 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:22 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:33 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:37 |amethyst: What are you doing with monsters? 03:30:59 Yes, yes, yes, yes. 03:30:59 Pingas: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:31:07 !messages 03:31:07 (1/1) Napkin said (8h 57m 57s ago): done :) 03:31:29 Thanks, Napkin. I was able to resume the game, even with the bug present. 03:31:31 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:36 great 03:31:37 Napkin: You have 11 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:31:41 what did you need to do? 03:31:44 Just had to press "esc". 03:31:48 arg! 03:31:54 Apparently there was an invisible "more". 03:31:57 was there a info box or something? 03:32:01 ahhh 03:32:02 Nothing visible. 03:32:06 So it was still a bug. 03:32:08 well, great it works :) 03:32:10 Yeah. :D 03:32:11 03evilmike * rad6a0126a8e3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/ (spider.des vaults.des): More vaults. (HangedMan) 03:32:11 03evilmike * r7a0fba068c94 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Some vaults featuring an orcish mining accident. (nicolae) 03:32:11 03evilmike * r0e8c877f7ea8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Change a 0 to an O. 03:32:12 So thanks. 03:32:14 and good to know :) 03:32:30 you're welcome, np 03:33:43 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:05:47 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:43 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:12:29 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:18 !tell Wensley the readable equivalent of !(!a && b) is a || !b 04:23:19 galehar: OK, I'll let Wensley know. 04:46:23 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:45 Jiyva is highly abusable in zigsprint due to the loot room. Nemelex a bit too. 04:46:57 kilobyte: you around? 04:47:00 How about moving the altars to a second rooms? 04:47:29 destroy the loot when leaving the first room 04:48:57 absolutego: meow? 04:48:57 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:49:20 i just got a d:3 MDA off a vanilla orc. could have something to do with your commit from yesterday? 04:49:21 galehar: or better, nuke the entire level every time you move forward, and place the new vault 04:49:49 absolutego: you can get a GDA on d:1, too 04:50:02 best chances if you're an octopode, felid or draconian 04:50:18 ??gold dragon armour[2] 04:50:19 gold dragon armour[2/2]: The chance of any particular randomly generated armour on D:1 being GDA is about 0.00873%. 04:50:33 i know, i know, it just seemed highly coincidental :) 04:52:38 bugs happen, and I in particular have a special talent in creating new ones, but looks like all the uniques who can get a MDA have a proper break before and after 04:53:28 alright, it was the first time it happened, so i figured i'd drop you a line 04:58:45 only artefacts have a hard cut-off 05:21:35 @??jumping spider 05:21:35 jumping spider (12s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-58 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Damage: 2016(ensnare), 504(medium poison) | Flags: sense invisible, web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 327 | Sp: blink close, blink away. 05:21:49 |amethyst: looks like it works! 05:41:36 can ensnare maybe not be white? 05:42:04 im pretty sure im not the only one using it as background color 05:42:50 eh, so your IRC client fails to show that? 05:45:26 yes 05:45:46 chatzilla managed to become non-horrible, but its far from good 05:46:11 and its whats installed here (also its what i use at home due to failing to find something i like more so far. should really look at kvirc) 05:47:30 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:04 why is it 20 ensnare, 5 medium poison? that doesn't really make sense 06:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-703-g0e8c877 06:17:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:38 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:27:32 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:36:21 03kilobyte * rb915d6e6934a 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Forbid monsters with arcane spells from picking up -CAST armour. 06:36:31 03kilobyte * r2debecaf7e4e 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Put references to removed cards in #ifdefs. 06:46:26 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:14 03galehar * r90f55f567fb8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Only fill the zombifiable vector the first time in pick_random_zombie(). 07:00:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:25 -!- wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:33 boop 07:06:34 wensley: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:06:41 -!- wensley is now known as Wensley 07:09:06 |amethyst: in retrospect I like the idea of adding a new parameter to those functions, the problem is that at the start I had no idea what functions were important and even right now I have no idea how many more functions I would need to add it to 07:13:49 !tell galehar !(!a && b) === a || !b but my mindset was that !a && b was an "applicability clause" that you could then negate if you want the opposite 07:13:49 Wensley: OK, I'll let galehar know. 07:25:35 |amethyst: still not sure whether I want to suppress evokable blink etc. entirely or give a big penalty to evocation success. also, unrands will all need to be special-cased probably 07:30:48 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:54 I do still sort of feel like the check for suppression should happen at the sites where effects are calculated rather than in the functions for which items are equipped based on a passed-in parameter 07:31:46 mostly just for clarity of expressing what is happening 07:32:08 and also because I still don't know how many functions I'd have to modify in this way 07:33:10 |amethyst: I think a compromise that might satisfy both of us would be to refactor the code to get rid of all instances of "apply an effect iff this amulet is equipped" in favor of "apply an effect if the player has this effect" 07:34:08 this does happen in most places, there's just a few ones that nobody ever bothered to move into explicit "check if this effect is applicable" functions 07:34:35 constrast how you check for clarity with player_mental_clarity and how you check for stasis with wearing_amulet(AMULET_STASIS) 07:35:29 in the former case, the check for you.suppressed happens inside the function 07:35:53 I'll probably make a bunch of functions to make the remainder of the wearing_amulet cases work similarly 07:36:10 should reduce a lot of code duplication and make things a lot clearer 07:37:20 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:42:29 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:14 wearing_amulet() really shouldn't do anything except what its name implies 07:59:31 true 07:59:31 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:59:47 Wensley: seems like a good occasion to refactor and clarify some code 07:59:50 !messages 07:59:51 (1/1) Wensley said (46m 4s ago): !(!a && b) === a || !b but my mindset was that !a && b was an "applicability clause" that you could then negate if you want the opposite 08:02:05 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:29 kilobyte: right, my intent is to replace all occurrences of wearing_amulet(AMULET_STASIS) with something like player_stasis(), where both the check for suppression and the check for wearing the amulet happen inside that function 08:08:01 this way we could also have a single place you'd need to modify if you wanted a new source of stasis 08:08:49 exactly what I had in mind, yeah 08:08:59 just like player_mental_clarity() and so on 08:09:40 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:43 Wensley: good idea 08:16:22 the same thing could be done for other amulets. rCorr comes to mind. 08:16:47 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:07 yes, there are quite a few places that conflate "wearing an amulet" with "you have this effect" 08:17:27 Wensley: regarding increasing the number of spiders, it turns out it would need to be balanced by an HD reduction. Spider is already high XP wise compared to other Lair branches 08:17:44 ah I forgot about xp from hd 08:18:03 I realize that my insistence that spider be a swarm branch is controversial 08:18:32 really the only important aspects are "lots of things with low hp that actually pose a threat to you in large numbers" 08:19:39 and aside from that food vault and perhaps sprint 1 I really don't think many vaults use spiders, so it shouldn't be a big problem to tweak them a lot 08:20:24 Swamp and Spiders are 8.5k / level 08:20:30 Snake is 5.7k 08:20:37 Shoals 7.5k 08:20:51 this is the average of branch:1 and branch:4 08:25:27 constricting snakes and nagas could use an XP bump, adjusting for their increased difficulty 08:25:32 I think evilmike's the one who's been overseeing the changes to spider stats 08:25:44 (with a global reduction if we want to compensate) 08:27:43 obviously I don't have any authority here, but since people are concerned that doubling the number of spiders would make the branch more tedious, I'd like to point out that if spiders take half as many turns to kill then it can only be, at worst, exactly as tedious as it currently is, while also being more dangerous 08:28:38 i don't think tediousness is an exact science like that :P 08:28:44 it is! 08:28:50 tediology 08:29:53 all I propose is that we leave spider damage as it currently is and halve their hp, and then double their spawn rate and see how people react 08:30:04 *everyone* has said that spider is a cakewalk so far 08:30:21 last I checked the only killers were nikola and a ghost moth 08:30:59 even with the changes I propose I highly doubt the branch would be as hard as either shoals or snake 08:33:45 !lg * place=Spider s=killer 08:33:45 688 games for * (place=Spider): 172x an emperor scorpion, 158x a wolf spider, 94x a redback, 71x a trapdoor spider, 64x a ghost moth, 21x a jumping spider, 18x , 17x a demonic crawler, 16x a tarantella, 9x a scorpion, 5x a giant centipede, 4x a spider, 3x you, 2x a giant scorpion, 2x an ogre, 2x Izverg's ghost, 343's ghost, Skan's ghost, DashNine's ghost, Surr's ghost, zigrobin's ghost, tsouns' gh... 08:34:07 !lg * place=~Spider:* s=killer 08:34:08 6 games for * (place=~Spider:*): 2x a ghost moth, 2x an orb spider, , Wiglaf 08:34:21 s/nikola/wiglaf 08:34:34 !lg * ikiller=Arachne 08:34:34 No games for * (ikiller=Arachne). 08:34:35 :( 08:34:42 !lm * uniq=Arachne 08:34:42 5. [2012-03-22] mroovka the Sorcerer (L24 DrFE) killed Arachne on turn 65892. (Spider:3) 08:35:08 i was considering letting her get me as her first kill but my abominations killed her too quickly :P 08:35:17 ha 08:35:20 rats 08:36:13 need to give her shatter, firestorm, tornado, icestorm, and something for the 5th slot 08:36:20 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:22 heh :D 08:36:24 emergency-slot banishment 08:36:27 haste I guess, to make her cast more of the first four :p 08:36:34 Wensley: :) 08:37:56 !lm * uniq=Arachne s=xl 08:37:56 5 milestones for * (uniq=Arachne): 22, 21, 25, 14, 24 08:38:07 you were the only one below XL21 there, though 08:38:21 !lm * uniq=Ilsuiw s=xl 08:38:30 5474 milestones for * (uniq=Ilsuiw): 630x 18, 585x 19, 577x 20, 561x 21, 515x 22, 488x 23, 486x 17, 379x 24, 316x 27, 300x 16, 283x 25, 171x 26, 125x 15, 42x 14, 11x 13, 4x 12, 11 08:38:35 ugh, look at those xls 08:38:38 we need rune lock 08:39:01 Shoals teached people to approach new branches cautiously 08:39:10 how about alternative rune lock: can't gain any experience past xl 14 until you have a rune :P 08:39:16 i went straight there after lair:8 with my abominations 08:39:20 but i didn't do spider:5 yet 08:39:55 so yeah, somewhat cautious :P 08:40:22 i had to run away from arachne, poison arrow was a bit too much 08:40:58 level 3 monster resists always translate to immunity, right? at least the ones that are displayed in their descriptions 08:41:31 hmm... elec, poison, fire, cold, steam, acid, rot 08:41:47 so yeah, probably "immune" is better than "extremely resistant"? 08:42:28 rF+++ is 10% damage IIRC 08:43:01 kilobyte: having constriction could boost the XP value of the monster 08:44:17 better to do it right in exper_value rather than special casing a few monsters 08:44:44 looks like it is always immunity, yeah 08:45:13 according to resist_adjust_damage 08:46:55 Wensley: the feedback from the people who had the valour banner was that rune lock makes branch ends exciting but the "after-lock" even more boring 08:47:36 I'm looking into cutting levels from branches, give XP for runes and put loot into rune vaults 08:49:19 galehar: new plan: dungeon is 14 levels long. rune lock is just the portal to zot 08:50:01 I don't really feel like cutting levels from swamp/snake/shoals/spider will help 08:50:05 5 seems like a sweet spot 08:50:09 for the record, i did vow of courage 3 and that was exactly my experience, yes 08:50:17 or instead of axing V, we could axe D 08:50:47 or both! 08:51:09 kilobyte: so instead of D all players start in the abyss and find portals to different branches? :) 08:51:38 hmm no, would make V:8 even more encouraged (if you need to do V:1-7) 08:52:57 kilobyte: three MDA, five troll leather armours, two steam dragon armours by XL14 in my current game 08:53:19 maybe it's ok, but i'm still a bit surprised 08:53:50 new proposal: reduce dungeon to 14 levels and double the monster spawn rate in D 08:53:52 -!- ketsa has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:54:09 absolutego: er, wut? 08:54:47 ... 08:54:59 DOH! 08:55:08 mmm? 08:55:24 03MarvinPA * rdb7514be202f 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Clarify sizes a little better in monster descriptions 08:55:24 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:30 03MarvinPA * raef7714b6fdc 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Change "extremely resistant" to "immune" in monster descriptions 08:57:19 kilobyte: did you change all armor spawns to dragon/troll armor 08:58:58 Ahh, so there were "rune lock test" banners in the tournament? That's genius :D 09:00:14 Wensley: the plan is actually more like V:5, E:4, C:4 and lair branches -> 3 09:01:21 vaults to 5 would be most welcome 09:02:49 WHat about Lair itself? 09:03:36 galehar: I think lair branches should be as long as vaults 09:03:38 Feels longish to me. 09:03:41 which is to say 5 09:03:46 (not 7) 09:03:50 (or 8) 09:04:27 if the reason for making them shorter is "they're not fun", then the solution is to make them fun, rather than making them slightly less tedious 09:04:38 once again we veer into the realm of tediology 09:05:13 they are separate issues 09:05:16 Yeah 09:05:18 but yes, vaults to 5 would be great, as would elf to 4 09:05:24 not sure what "C" is 09:05:28 Crypt? 09:05:38 there are parts of the game that are not very fun, and parts that take too long 09:05:38 Was my guess. 09:05:38 ah okay 09:05:41 in the case of vaults and late D, they overlap 09:05:55 I think crypt to 4 would be good 09:05:58 lair and its branches are all fine, as far as i'm concerned 09:06:05 so that all non-rune branches are four levels 09:06:08 nice and consistent 09:06:18 03kilobyte * r44143447dc85 10/crawl-ref/source/ (files.cc files.h maps.cc tag-version.h): Embed the timestamp into des cache files instead of relying on the filesystem. 09:06:20 03kilobyte * rdb69758b3ff2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Don't give all elves, Ijyb, orc priests dragon armours... 09:06:21 crypt could be 1 floor, if you want to be dramatic about it 09:06:38 there are some good ideas for crypt 09:06:45 i don't think the lair branches need to go down to 3, yeah 09:06:57 it too just needs to be made better rather than just less tedious 09:08:43 i think that in general terms the game could stand to be shorter 09:08:51 there's a psychological aspect with branch length, below a certain length they lose a lot of gravitas 09:08:57 i pulled my fastest win yesterday, which took a bit more than 5 hours 09:09:03 absolutego: yes, I do agree, but mostly that's late d/vaults/endgame 09:09:06 i usually play very slow 09:09:50 hey, I know what you mean. I challenge anyone hear to play slower than I do :P 09:09:52 and i don't think what would be lost with less D and V, leaving other issues aside for a minute 09:10:03 !lg . won x=avg(dur) 09:10:04 3 games for Wensley (won): avg(dur)=137125 09:10:42 are those turns? 09:11:22 <|amethyst> seconds 09:12:21 uhm, i thought so, but it felt a bit too excessive ;) 09:12:26 you have me beat on that department 09:12:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:54 actually it's sort of weird 09:13:57 !lg . won x=dur 09:13:57 3. [dur=30:26:01 [109561]] Wensley the Archmage (L27 DEVM), worshipper of Vehumet, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-11-26, with 11703901 points after 139049 turns and 30:26:01. 09:15:03 wait no, I'm just terrible at math 09:15:06 30h. wow 09:15:20 !lg * won max=dur 09:15:21 7136. Cuckatoo the Farming Talismancer (L27 MuFi), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 61 runes on 2007-08-01, with 2200969 points after 3190190 turns and 224:36:31. 09:15:27 !lg . won max=dur 09:15:28 17. jle the Anemomancer (L27 NaWz), worshipper of Cheibriados, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-05-29, with 8956495 points after 194306 turns and 35:28:37. 09:15:29 hahahaha 09:15:41 !lg . won max=dur 09:15:41 26. absolutego the Farming Slayer (L27 CeSk), worshipper of Okawaru, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-07-07, with 6593496 points after 278862 turns and 32:44:33. 09:15:53 oh yes, my first 15-runer took very long 09:15:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:15:58 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:16:49 anyway, I'd feel a lot less motivated to work on this moth if I knew that it would only exist for a measly 1.5 levels per game :P 09:17:19 well, these orb spiders are certainly fun 09:17:20 that extra level makes all the difference 09:17:24 are those full-powered OODs? 09:17:34 orb spider (06s) | Speed: 12 (spell: 200%) | HD: 5 | Health: 22-43 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 236 | Sp: destruction orb (8d7), cantrip. 09:17:34 %??orb spider 09:17:35 that's long? 09:17:36 Boris (05L) | Speed: 10 | HD: 22 | Health: 154 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 25, 1513(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(322), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 8380 | Sp: iron shot (3d37), b.cold (3d32), invisibility, animate dead, destruction orb (8d17). 09:17:36 %??boris 09:17:37 !lg . won max=dur 09:17:37 18. KiloByte the Farming Archmage (L27 SpAE), worshipper of Lugonu, escaped with the Orb and 18 runes on 2008-11-08, with 5118394 points after 262053 turns and 54:18:47. 09:17:47 Wensley: thanks 09:18:07 no farming of any kind, too 09:19:49 kilobyte: it says farming right there! 09:19:56 how can you deny it :) 09:19:59 !lg * won turns<200000 x=avg(dur) 09:19:59 6411 games for * (won turns<200000): avg(dur)=46386.61 09:22:22 -!- clouded has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:58 -!- st__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:07 !lg * xl<14 x=avg(dur) 09:23:26 1496782 games for * (xl<14): avg(dur)=881.95 09:23:32 a median might be more useful 09:24:22 note that for the vast majority of games, crawl is *not* too long. just 14 minutes on average! 09:24:33 it's all about the endgame 09:25:43 I think that if people are reliably hitting level 27 before they get the orb, the game is too long 09:26:12 xl27 should be some lofty far-off goal for experienced players to aspire to rather than just another milestone through the endless extended endgame slog 09:26:47 <|amethyst> s/aspire to/grind for/ 09:27:38 grinding will be punishable by being forced to play nethack 09:28:14 <|amethyst> "We notice you've been in Pan for a while after getting all five runes. Here's some Sokoban." 09:29:54 hmm... so from #2649, it looks like there's normally a 1/100 chance of going berserk when you attack with a *rage artefact (of any kind) equipped, but then in melee_attack there's a 50% chance of berserking when you attack (with a *rage weapon) 09:30:08 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:17 Sokoban stays quite high on my list of "Nethack's worst ideas" 09:30:33 not sure what the best way of fixing that is... leave the check for non-weapon artefacts with *rage seperate, and fix the broken check in melee_attack? 09:30:57 MarvinPA: isn't 50% chance supposed to happen only for Wrath of Trog? 09:31:15 yeah, that's handled in yet another seperate place, art-func.h :P 09:31:30 let's just axe the 50% one then 09:32:02 currently lots of comments claim that artefacts are more likely to send you berserk depending on the value of ANGRY they have, and randarts get 1+random2(8) 09:32:57 could standardise it in melee_attack, give wrath of trog ANGRY: 50 and the other fixedarts some appropriate lower value? since it works for monsters too i think, that way 09:33:58 hardly any artefact properties work for monsters 09:34:59 like, say, -CAST (and some bozo forgot to check artefact weapons instead of just armour) 09:35:03 ??bloodbane 09:35:03 bloodbane[1/2]: Unrandart +7,+8 vorpal demon blade that lets you berserk, makes you angry, and makes you less stealthy. 09:35:04 ??bloodbane[2] 09:35:05 bloodbane[2/2]: < MarvinPA> The centaur goes berserk! < MarvinPA> The centaur hits you with an uncursed blackened katana! < MarvinPA> what < MarvinPA> no < MarvinPA> argh < Gretell> MarvinPA the Arsonist (L11 OgFE), worshipper of Vehumet, slain by a centaur (the +7,+8 katana "Bloodbane") on D:11, with 6649 points after 18712 turns and 0:41:07. 09:35:11 berserk does currently :P 09:36:07 super hilarious 09:36:12 would be good to make more properties work for monsters i think 09:36:34 at least for ones where it's reasonable and fairly simple 09:36:34 this sounds like it is going to be tangled in with my moth of suppression stuff 09:36:43 I sense hundreds of impending merge errors 09:37:05 my first commit was like +500 -300 lines 09:37:56 maybe someone should merge my wip branch into trunk so I don't have to worry about it *wink wink nudge nudge* 09:41:07 03kilobyte * ra036d846cb3a 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Arcane spellcasters don't want -CAST weapons, either. 09:41:24 also I'm not sure how I'm going to handle str/int/dex from equipment 09:41:46 because I get the feeling that right now the stats are calculated at the point of equip/unequip rather than at each step 09:47:49 Wensley: yeah, they do 09:47:56 mostly at least 09:57:46 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:50 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Changing host] 09:57:50 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:48 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:57 did someone tinker with the special armour drop rates 10:26:27 or am i just ridiculously lucky 10:26:28 Ragdoll: already fixed 10:26:42 �fixed� what do you mean 10:28:23 Ragdoll: 15:06:20 < CIA-62> kilobyte * rdb69758b3ff2 /crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Don't give all elves, Ijyb, orc priests dragon armours... 10:29:55 it was a nice change of pace 10:32:02 how did this happen? 10:33:45 so, here is the new shortening plan: V: -3 (47k XP), C: -1 (17.5k XP), E: -1 (6.5k XP) 10:33:53 total 71k XP 10:34:17 we give some back with 10k XP per rune 10:34:24 Ragdoll: something like all spellcasters except for common ones were given a rare chance to spawn with dragon armor, but the list of common spellcasters was woefully incomplete 10:35:26 galehar: +1 for branch lengths 10:35:51 wensley: haha, i see 10:36:51 galehar: didnt someone expirement once with decreasing the size of the levels? that was quite interesting too 10:36:55 Wensley: no, it's -1. We're shortening. 10:36:55 galehar: how does 10k for runes compare to potions of experience 10:36:56 ;) 10:37:02 :P 10:37:57 I do sort of like the idea that runeget xp wouldn't scale with your xl, which would encourage earlyruneget 10:38:18 Ragdoll: I was thinking that dungeon levels could be smaller, if we still want 27 of them. 10:38:29 i liked the use in swamp the most 10:39:06 I think Swamp could be smaller , it'd be less boring if it was 10:39:21 hm, it does sound like a good encouragement to get runes early but maybe the midgame will be even easier if you can start it with a big xp bump 10:39:23 right now it's like "Slogslogslog HYDRAS slogslogslog" 10:39:52 a big xp bump early probably has more impact than losing the xp later due to shorter branches 10:39:53 !xp gives one level, and 750*XL worth of XP to train skills. 10:40:19 The latter doesn't work very well at high XL I think 10:40:31 perhaps we should increase general difficulty/density? 10:40:42 I agree that the midgame is entirely too easy 10:40:52 MarvinPA: on the other hand, those 10x XP are much harder to gain than the 71k XP which are being cut from other branches 10:41:12 hmm, i don't think it's *much* harder 10:41:19 I know that monsters already tend to group on 10:41:33 Except for dragons, perhaps 10:41:33 I think it might be pretty cool if dungeon levels were smaller, but the number of monsters was the same 10:41:38 ^ 10:41:40 might break some layouts and vaults though 10:41:46 well, the idea is to get players to get Lair runes before doing V, C and E 10:41:48 but yeah, maybe worth trying and just seeing the results 10:42:00 would it even be hard 10:42:05 then if it turns out to make the later game too easy we can buff everything and nerf everything :P 10:42:29 Elf is harder than lair branches so people should be encouraged to do that 10:42:31 or tweak other things as necessary 10:42:48 and it doesn't have awful item requirements 10:43:00 -!- clouded is now known as st_ 10:43:10 hm, that's true as well, yeah 10:43:18 st_ MR is usually nice because of banishment 10:43:29 yeah, I never go in elf without MR 10:43:31 * FaMott thinks that the Abyss bogs things down too and is genuinely boring 10:43:34 sinv, MR. conservation would be nice 10:43:43 also, what about either 1. rebalancing O, or 2. moving the entrance deeper? 10:43:48 the loot is sort of an encouragement but it's easy to skip or put off until later 10:43:58 What if it was in vaults rather than in orc? 10:44:00 the last time this was raised, people said it's "to keep the entry vaults where they are" 10:44:01 kilobyte: do you plan on finishing the portal branch and merging it? 10:44:08 could there be a different mechanic for removing the -ctele in elf halls 10:44:08 it's worth going for some equipment/shops 10:44:26 kilobyte: the orc range could just be made equivalent to the lair range 10:44:31 doesn't need to be strictly lower 10:44:31 it always feels like elf1-4 is just a bigger orc 10:44:41 like, "Orcs with spells, all of them" 10:44:58 yeah elf needs work but I think it has promise 10:45:02 galehar: yeah, but not sure what's the pressure. There are translations and spider which should probably be done first, unless you want to do drastic changes to branch lengths. 10:45:06 there were some cool ideas for elf on the devwiki 10:45:22 galehar: and I somehow start to get the feeling that you do :p 10:45:29 i think elf has the same problem as crypt, lack of variety 10:46:03 but would the changes to the branch lengths even be that hard? aside from adjusting monster depth is it any more onerous than just changing a few numerical constants 10:46:12 would it be possible to merge crypt and tomb? 10:46:27 supertomb 10:46:32 kilobyte: well, we can also just do the branch cut now and break save compat. And merge the portal branch later when it's ready 10:46:34 Wensley: the issue is save compatability i think 10:46:38 ah I see 10:46:45 d:51 10:46:57 breaking save compat is not a big deal 10:47:07 what are these portal branches? 10:47:11 we have backward compatibity going back to 0.8 10:47:16 which hasn't been broken in ages, i've wondered why not too :P 10:47:32 yeah, seems like it'd even be a good thing to clean up a lot of removed stuff 10:47:43 galehar: since there's a bunch of niceties related to branch lengths there, I can just reprioritize 10:47:48 the whole skill changes never break compat (although don't look the skill section in tags.cc ) 10:48:07 galehar: it's mostly about a massive level stack commit that's in a rebase/fix hell for months 10:48:17 I wonder if anyone has a 0.8 save they've been gradually upgrading for the past two years 10:48:39 Wensley: someone tried loading a 0.8 save in 0.10 and it failed badly 10:48:56 wait how did "remove hive" not break save compat :P 10:49:09 well, the branch length change is little code lot of balance. I like to have that kind of changes early in the release cycle 10:49:28 breaking save compat is bad for reproducing old bugs (can't load a save from Mantis), but good because no one ever tests compat over multiple releases 10:50:50 Wensley: portal->branch is ok, branch->portal is not. Adding or _disabling_ a branch is ok. Changing a branch's depth is not (fixed). 10:51:17 you can still load all the saves as long as you use git tags to mark the last commit before a breaking change 10:51:27 kilobyte: translation is just starting, better not postpone the portal clean up after it. 10:51:42 galehar: ok, I'll pause translations then 10:51:48 needs a bunch of thinking anyway 10:51:51 okay so question, how many huge projects are going on right now 10:52:04 because we're all going to start stepping on each others' toes at some point 10:52:10 kilobyte: thanks 10:52:20 Wensley: a lot ! 10:52:31 (I mean, translating descriptions already works, translating db entries almost -- it just needs to query everything in the language before falling back to English) 10:52:53 ok, have to go 10:52:58 'later people 10:53:27 like, "Edmund confused" needs to query "Edmund", "humanoid confused", "humanoid" in the language, and only then "Edmund confused" and the rest in English 10:53:39 * kilobyte follows galehar. 10:58:26 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:19 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 12:16:41 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:22:58 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:07 Zin description wording (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5480) by mumra 13:05:28 03edlothiol * r6493dee8cd45 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/server.py: Webtiles: Write the PID to the logfile. 13:05:32 03edlothiol * raa86304cfd31 10/crawl-ref/source/ (60 files in 3 dirs): roctavian's racial weapon tiles (#5420). 13:05:33 03edlothiol * r3d4fb127c380 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/server.py: Webtiles: Don't allow new connections while shutting down. 13:17:07 edlothiol: ah, while you're doing tiles stuff, can you add the green suppression aura tile from this issue: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5385 13:17:52 (also everything else in that issue is awesome as well) 13:21:11 Wensley: ok, I'll look into it 13:23:27 thanks :) 13:26:00 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:33 Wensley: it's the one at row 2, column 4 in transparent1.png, right? 13:46:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:31 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:42 if i have a character stream, say x, and i want to print something, i can do mprf("That thing you wanted is %s", x);. is there a way to save the character stream directly, without printing it? 13:59:15 as in save the character stream "That thing you wanted is " 14:05:58 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 14:06:48 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:49 nfogravity: you may be looking for make_stringf? 14:07:10 edlothiol: that's the tile, yes 14:07:12 sorry all 14:07:39 that looks exactly like it! thanks 14:10:09 Wensley: it's in, but it looks kind of intense, maybe too distracting -- have a look 14:10:21 though most of the aura tiles have that problem 14:10:29 03edlothiol * r42d8ed7d8c48 10/crawl-ref/source/tileview.cc: Use map_knowledge in tile_apply_properties instead of directly accessing the game data. 14:10:29 03edlothiol * r654b8b308ac6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Add a tile for the suppression aura. 14:10:44 edlothiol: will have a look once I am on a non-headless computer 14:10:52 ok 14:11:10