00:15:52 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:28 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:19:05 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 00:23:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:45 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:29 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:26 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-490-g7a28b9d (32) 01:06:49 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:01 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-490-g7a28b9d 01:55:19 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:56:29 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:57:01 -!- GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:14 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:12 -!- xnavy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:06 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:30 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:27:13 Danakh (L22 DsWr) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed. (D:25) 02:49:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:53:39 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37:17 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:50 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:58:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:04 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:19:10 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:11 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:24 -!- vadatajs has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:41:04 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:19 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:04 -!- vadatajs has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:58:25 Cannot tell summoned monsters to attack monsters behind a tree (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5422) by moritzmh 06:00:21 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:21 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:14 !tell evilmike I think most of the spiders need an HD boost. 06:59:15 elliptic: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 07:03:39 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:38 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:29 so spider is actually really enabled? 07:07:51 elliptic: such balancing is probably way premature 07:08:35 kilobyte: well, I don't see any reason not to start thinking about the monster set... presumably even with hellspider we want the rest of the levels to be interesting 07:09:13 "rest of the levels"? 07:09:22 as in, the non-hellspider part of each level 07:10:00 ah, probably 07:10:14 cranking up the numbers instead may be another option 07:10:41 so you get the feel of being swarmed by waves after waves of spiders 07:11:09 kilobyte: have you played ADOM ever? 07:11:51 being swarmed by waves after waves of spiders is one of the most hated parts of ADOM by most people :P 07:12:55 ADOM's interface is a tad worse than Crawl's 07:13:30 other fun swarm branches: hive. 07:13:44 can there please be something that is not killed by ignite poison in there? 07:13:47 yes, no autofight... still, I tend to think that having fewer, more meaningful monsters is better than trying to make do with lots of chaff 07:13:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:09 a single-spell solution to a whole branch (minus tdhs) seems... bad 07:14:16 st_: all monsters of the same, low difficulty 07:14:39 alefury: good point 07:14:47 spiders arent that weak ime 07:15:06 redbacks and trapdoor spiders can be nasty 07:15:06 I remember seeing a weird bit while complaining about forms and ev 07:15:16 spider form has huge ev but most spiders have 10-14 ev 07:15:17 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:25 that could help 07:15:30 HangedMan: player EV and monster EV work on a different scale 07:15:37 pah 07:15:47 still, 10 EV is pretty standard. 14 is somewhat high. 07:15:57 @??orc 07:15:57 orc (04o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 5 | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 3. 07:16:38 but not very high 07:16:44 @??unseen horror 07:16:44 unseen horror (06x) | Speed: 30 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 12 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 745. 07:16:54 @??mennas 07:16:54 Mennas (15A) | Speed: 15 | HD: 19 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 15/28 | Damage: 30, 20 | Flags: 08holy, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(202), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 6578 | Sp: confuse, silence, minor healing. 07:17:05 @??jumping spider 07:17:05 jumping spider (12s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Damage: 1604(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 146 | Sp: blink close, blink away. 07:17:14 @??redback 07:17:14 redback (05s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-45 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 1804(strong poison) | Res: 06magic(24) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 301. 07:17:20 @??spriggan 07:17:20 spriggan (15i) | Speed: 16 | HD: 7 | Health: 15-27 | AC/EV: 1/20 | Damage: 10 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(65) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 305. 07:17:33 @??trapdoor spider 07:17:34 trapdoor spider (11s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-59 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 456. 07:17:44 are there bigger spiders? 07:18:00 @??emperor scorpion 07:18:00 emperor scorpion (15s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 41-80 | AC/EV: 5/8 | Damage: 3004(medium poison), 11, 11 | Res: 06magic(44) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 898. 07:18:16 @??anaconda 07:18:16 anaconda (15S) | Speed: 18 | HD: 11 | Health: 41-80 | AC/EV: 4/16 | Damage: 30(crush) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(44), 12drown | XP: 1137. 07:18:38 there seems to be a distinct lack of real opposition, especially for rP chars... 07:19:08 tarantella spam 07:19:15 while stuck in a web 07:19:16 pffff 07:19:20 @??tarantella 07:19:20 tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 813(confuse) | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 90. 07:19:23 what about putting in something with a ranged attack 07:19:33 currently everything is melee-only, which is part of the issue 07:19:35 web-spitters 07:19:43 -!- ZorbaBeta has left ##crawl-dev 07:20:14 serious sam uses cyborg scorpions with guns for scissors to great effect 07:20:16 :) 07:21:08 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:38 not every branch needs ranged monsters (swamp doesnt have anything i think) 07:22:12 something that makes cloud-like web fields might be fun 07:23:14 swamp has swamp dragons and swamp drakes 07:23:23 also three endings with other dragons 07:23:50 oh, true. note that bone dragons arent ranged. :P 07:24:18 the bone dragon ending has a death drake or oklob 07:24:35 an oklob? what? 07:24:48 !vault swamp_pestilence 07:24:50 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/186751 07:24:52 that makes no sense at all 07:24:55 lemuelllllllllll 07:25:48 a bit hard to explain how web spitters would work, without magic 07:26:00 nothing wrong with magic spiders 07:26:09 could make a semi-human unique with such a spell 07:26:25 although a half-spider half-human is so cliche 07:26:55 ceniders: spiders with a horse's lower body :) 07:27:16 those japanese spider temptresses 07:27:22 4 horse legs, 4 spider legs, and a spider's head 07:27:25 :) 07:27:35 this sounds worse then slepnir 07:27:37 HangedMan: arent those basically driders? 07:27:48 it sounds incredibly horrifying :) 07:29:05 alefury: driders are not a D&D invention, this thingy is medieval or ancient 07:29:24 pah, tsuchigumo is already on the spider's nest devwiki page 07:29:27 makes sense, driders are a very disturbing concept 07:30:05 now all I've got is myrmcelions or whatever 07:30:36 a +4,+5 vampiric lajatang 7355 gold 07:31:00 can't we do something to prices already? This is a decent item but nowhere near über. 07:31:20 oooooo, there's also ubu 07:32:02 http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100527171056/megamitensei/images/b/b7/Ubu.jpg 07:32:15 what about a stepdown with step of 1000 gold? 07:32:33 *really* loud screamers 07:34:36 omg. what kind of person comes up with that? 07:35:13 "A spider-monster that appears on Sado Island of the Niigata prefecture. It appears while making noises like a baby's cry. Dead or abandoned babies sometimes transform into an Ubu. They grab onto passerby and kill them." 07:35:39 shin megami tensei is the best series for using any myth ever 07:35:55 i only played some DS spinoff :/ 07:36:07 strange journey had them! 07:36:12 or maybe you played devil survivor 07:36:41 yeah 07:36:48 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:00 but only halfway through or so 07:37:15 are flying skulls actually very loud? 07:37:31 mobile alarm traps sounds like a nice niche 07:37:33 btw, do you know what flying skulls are? 07:37:37 a ripoff of doomrl 07:38:02 fr make flying skulls have inner flame, make greater flying skulls spit out flying skulls 07:38:07 imo: a ripoff of planescape: torment :) 07:38:15 and they should leave flying skulls when they die 07:38:33 a good vault will have a wide open level with rooms with greater flying skulls inside 07:38:36 pillar of skulls 07:38:40 and when you get to the center, some lua magic makes all the rooms open 07:38:48 pillar of *anything* would be a good monster 07:38:55 no 07:39:01 counterexample: pillar of penises 07:39:13 s|anything|any monster| 07:39:26 although now I am compelled to bring up mara 07:39:28 pillar of yaktaurs? 07:40:06 titanic yaktaur creature 07:40:12 btw, can we have invincible stationary monsters? 07:40:26 @??diamond golem 07:40:27 unknown monster: "diamond golem" 07:40:32 @??diamond statue 07:40:32 unknown monster: "diamond statue" 07:41:04 obelisk 07:41:13 @??diamond obelisk 07:41:13 diamond obelisk (168) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 10000 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 11non-living, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind | XP: 15000. 07:41:29 That, yes. Practically invincible. 07:41:39 i think many of the current stationary monsters would make more sense if they were invincible 07:42:20 -!- vadatajs has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:42:21 invincible jellyfish 07:42:27 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:26 where are the cocytus hellyfish packs with paralyze and strong poison attacks 07:43:30 where, I ask 07:43:43 In that vault you haven't written yet. 07:43:53 hellyfish 07:43:57 hellyfish would be a good abyss or zot monster. not really for hells imo. 07:44:11 i think stationary monsters are kind of bad in general 07:44:21 can't define monster brands with mons spec 07:44:25 also slow monsters but in a different way 07:44:32 I still don't understand this idea of zot having wierd pun monsters. 07:44:45 mikee_: they can be fun as environmental hazards imo. hence invincible. 07:44:48 zot is supposed to be the most insane branch 07:45:31 can we already have hellephants in zot? some company for the klowns. 07:45:31 they're not a serious threat, though. just something that keeps you from exploring a radius 8 area unless you use XYZ 07:46:12 and don't tell me a mobile ocs wouldn't be cool 07:46:14 I like using them in very specific circumstances 07:46:22 mikee_: invincible stationary things + patrolling monsters + loot = fun vault 07:46:32 ugh 07:46:39 those are the lamest vaults imo 07:46:49 vincible stationary things + non-patrolling monsters + loot = horrible vault 07:46:57 and 100% of my vaults involve a monster that can't move so i am part of the problem 07:47:08 like as overly large as statue_hallways is it's nice to not have any idea what the center one is without having killed one of the two others 07:47:28 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:28 unless its in abyss or a portal, then its fine because you cant lure 07:47:39 a patrolling lich or something would be better than an ocs in most of the ocs vaults 07:47:54 and I built a vault where the scream from disintegrating a silver statue alerts a demon room 07:48:18 does it actually work? 07:48:27 as far as I could tell, yes 07:48:45 because as you may know, sound-based vaults tend to not work very well 07:49:03 not sure if the recent change helped 07:49:24 the vault's something like "1+222222" 07:49:43 heh 07:49:46 doors are supposed to be rather thin, no? 07:50:41 doors are probably okay, dont know about secret doors 07:51:09 also sound goes through walls a little now, so maybe everything just magically works perfectly now 07:52:43 ... 07:54:04 how in the world did the disint spell produce enough noise to make this vault work but not disint wands 07:54:08 ffffffffffffuck 07:55:30 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:27 the anthill vaults could probably be made to spawn in spider 08:08:35 why are there again ghost moths in spider? 08:08:45 having zot-appropriate monsters in a lair branch is not cool 08:09:03 tentacled monstrosities appear in swamp 08:09:12 ive never seen one 08:09:13 yes, it doesn't seem that unreasonable 08:09:32 greater nagas are more dangerous than most draconians, too 08:09:45 "degraded boss" is something somewhat interesting at times 08:10:36 ghost moth weight doesnt seem tiny from the monster list 08:11:22 alefury: because ghost moths, uhm, came from Spider, and got included in Zot only later? 08:11:47 but then they got buffed through the roof so they were no longer appropriate in spider, then nerfed again, then, afaik buffed again? 08:11:50 @??ghost moth 08:11:50 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 55-94 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 1805(drain dexterity), 1805(drain strength), 1204(strong poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 3460. 08:12:04 gretell's behind 08:12:07 @??adder 08:12:07 unknown monster: "adder" 08:12:09 @?adder 08:12:10 unknown monster: "adder" 08:12:18 mhh, and %?? is down :( 08:12:24 but as far as I can remember ghost moths haven't been touched in a while 08:12:37 the tourney's passed, somebody kick gretell into functionality again 08:12:37 kilobyte: h - the +9 armour of the Dragon King {rPois rF+ rC+ MR} 20127 gold 08:13:04 "no, youre not getting this" 08:14:13 Error calling monster-trunk: 08:14:13 <|amethyst> %?? adder 08:14:15 <|amethyst> hm 08:14:19 kilobyte: a stepdown with first step at 1000 sounds reasonable to me, though this is the sort of situation where a smooth stepdown would make more sense 08:14:23 its been broken for a while 08:16:54 that ordinary +4,+5 vamp lajatang gets down to 3044, Dragon King to 4320 with current stepdown 08:17:09 "current" as in "current function" 08:17:39 smooth could work, although in this case you can't either see or manipulate the base value so it doesn't matter really 08:17:45 (but still could be nice) 08:18:38 alefury: they were merely restored to below their initial state 08:19:00 alefury: they were designed as a counterpart to greater nagas, since both branches go in Lair 08:19:16 they are nothing like greater nagas, though 08:19:48 3000 for vamp lajatang and 4000 for dragon king doesn't sound that bad to me 08:20:03 imo they would be fine without the invisibility 08:20:24 make them flicker like sky beasts 08:20:43 wait, greatell doesnt even mention invis? 08:20:47 @??unseen horror 08:20:47 unseen horror (06x) | Speed: 30 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 12 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 745. 08:20:48 except the other way around 08:20:56 ah, it just doesnt mention invisiblity, okay 08:21:01 invis isn't set in mon-data or whatever 08:22:27 uhm, is the current source for monster available somewhere? 08:22:32 CDO has something ancient 08:22:33 invis ghost moths basically say "you cant do this branch end" to any conjuration or summoning based background without sinv 08:22:34 monster what 08:22:45 <|amethyst> chei's version or gretell's? 08:22:48 sure you can, just use refridge 08:23:08 or summon demon 08:23:09 HangedMan: maybe that works with a force more on the mana drain message 08:23:27 oh right, there's something that's frustrating about zot ghost moths 08:23:36 |amethyst: either, since Gretell seems to work 08:23:40 You feel like you are being watched by something doesn't interrupt runrest 08:23:53 which is really bad 08:24:14 <|amethyst> Chei's version is at http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git/ 08:24:19 <|amethyst> gretell's at git://git.develz.org/monster.git 08:25:23 <|amethyst> (http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git for the browser) 08:25:57 CDO's doesn't even build, not updated to Crawl's changes since november 08:26:08 <|amethyst> yeah 08:26:29 <|amethyst> I fixed some of those in Chei's version but apparently something else broke 08:27:04 it has been broken for more than a month i think 08:27:12 dont know when exactly 08:27:22 <|amethyst> it was broken for some monsters (uniques?) before 08:27:39 <|amethyst> then I recompiled against latest trunk, and it apparently broke for everything 08:28:02 <|amethyst> that was about a month agao 08:28:06 <|amethyst> s/gao/go/ 08:29:11 <|amethyst> let me try compiling against latest trunk 08:32:01 hrm, it compiles INSANELY slowly 08:32:16 yeah, "make -C" instead of "+${MAKE} -C" 08:32:25 <|amethyst> oh 08:32:28 <|amethyst> didn't think about that 08:32:54 -!- vadatajs has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:34:25 NAME: serial_shops CHANCE: 20% (Spider) 08:34:30 uhhhhhhhh 08:39:02 <|amethyst> still crashes 08:40:33 if swamp doesn't have shops, spider shouldn't, right? 08:41:37 |amethyst: works for me 08:41:50 |amethyst: also, it shouldn't output IRC colours when ran locally 08:41:56 <|amethyst> I understand the reasoning for making snake/spider the choice in branch roulette... but it seems that swamp/spider and shoals/snake make more sense 08:42:00 (already fixed, lemme test on CDO then push) 08:42:43 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I had a version that used ANSI colours (for command-line use), but I never merged it into the main version 08:42:56 <|amethyst> You can't push 08:43:09 <|amethyst> unless I'm misunderstanding 08:43:26 <|amethyst> (also, I fixed the make issue) 08:43:43 push to CDO, of course 08:43:49 <|amethyst> oh 08:44:09 <|amethyst> wonder why it's not working for me 08:44:34 in 35896734896348976 geological eras it may finish, then we can compare 08:44:54 <|amethyst> (I get a crash from rebind_mspec because a string contains a null pointer) 08:45:11 on a particular monster or on everything? 08:46:20 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:55 <|amethyst> everything 08:47:57 @??ghost moth 08:47:57 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 49-90 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 1805(drain dexterity), 1805(drain strength), 1204(strong poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 3472. 08:48:04 <|amethyst> cang works :) 08:48:22 @??terpsichore 08:48:22 unknown monster: "terpsichore" 08:48:30 @??subtractor snake 08:48:30 unknown monster: "subtractor snake" 08:48:32 @??cang 08:48:32 cang (04Î©) | Speed: c | HD: I | Health: 666 | AC/EV: e/Ï€ | Damage: 999 | Res: sanity | XP: âˆž 08:48:49 "I"? 08:49:03 <|amethyst> that should be lowercase i probably 08:50:12 <|amethyst> pushed 08:50:21 hrm, CDO has no editors, only vi 08:50:44 <|amethyst> oh noes 08:50:48 <|amethyst> It only has the best editor 08:50:57 <|amethyst> oh, plain vi? 08:51:28 <|amethyst> I pushed a commit to change I to i 08:51:50 <|amethyst> oh, and it works now 08:51:54 yay, both of your commits are bit-to-bit identical to mine, I like such rebases 08:51:57 <|amethyst> I guess it was the makefile issue 08:52:20 <|amethyst> so this version should also work for 0.10 08:52:33 except for BUILD_SQLITE=y 08:52:34 <|amethyst> since the last update was January 08:52:38 what is it there for? 08:52:41 <|amethyst> oh 08:52:45 <|amethyst> didn't mean to commit that 08:52:56 <|amethyst> the host I'm on needs that 08:53:23 <|amethyst> I don't remember why... old sqlite, or compiled without threading or something 08:54:28 Error calling monster-trunk: 08:54:28 <|amethyst> %??terpsichore 08:54:46 adder (09S) | Speed: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Damage: 508(poison) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13. 08:54:46 <|amethyst> %??adder 08:54:48 <|amethyst> hm 08:55:04 improvement 08:55:15 <|amethyst> and the error is just from how I'm calling it 08:56:17 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:17 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:56:21 unknown monster: "terpsichore" 08:56:21 <|amethyst> %??terpsichore 08:56:25 <|amethyst> there we go 08:57:05 hooray, improvements 08:57:13 now where's gretell's fix 08:57:32 <|amethyst> @??cang 08:57:32 cang (04Î©) | Speed: c | HD: i | Health: 666 | AC/EV: e/Ï€ | Damage: 999 | Res: sanity | XP: âˆž 08:57:37 <|amethyst> looks fixed to me 08:57:43 pushed your improvements, and my fixes to colours, to CDO's public repository 08:57:46 <|amethyst> @? adder 08:57:46 unknown monster: "adder" 08:57:59 <|amethyst> thanks 08:58:06 -!- MakMorn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:26 hrm, the makefile claims to install tile info, yet https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots shows old tiles 09:04:13 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:04:21 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:10 -!- MakMorn has quit [Client Quit] 09:05:18 <|amethyst> kilobyte: wait, were you logged in as napkin? 09:05:26 <|amethyst> oh, his name is probably in .git/config 09:05:36 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I didn't mess with any of the tile stuff, so I may have broken it... or possibly it's using the 0.9 tiles? 09:07:48 the orb guardian tile used is *ancient* 09:07:56 <|amethyst> oh 09:07:57 <|amethyst> I see 09:08:07 <|amethyst> jelly baby indeed 09:17:47 <|amethyst> kilobyte: do you want to try compiling the bleeding-edge-crawl branch of monster against 0.10? Then we could have a working @? 09:18:18 not sure where it's installed on CDO 09:18:28 <|amethyst> aha 09:18:30 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:15 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:45 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:45 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 09:32:50 unknown monster: "??" 09:32:50 <|amethyst> %??adder 09:32:53 <|amethyst> bah 09:32:57 <|amethyst> oh right 09:33:00 unknown monster: "?" 09:33:00 <|amethyst> %?terpsichore 09:33:51 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 09:33:56 unknown monster: "terpsichore" 09:33:56 <|amethyst> %??terpsichore 09:33:56 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33:58 Terpsichore (13p) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 7/25 | Damage: 30 | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 06magic(144), 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2407 | Sp: ball, swiftness, corona, blink, cantrip. 09:33:58 <|amethyst> %?terpsichore 09:34:03 <|amethyst> there we go 09:37:21 <|amethyst> I should look into a %reload command 09:39:24 can monsters be made to accept chunks so I can make a vault with necromancers starting with chunks 09:42:59 HangedMan: chunks will rot away before you find them 09:43:13 even in a portal vault? 09:43:23 where they start right in front of you blah blah blah 09:43:41 then no, but you can place the simulacra outright 09:44:14 but the effecttttttttt 09:44:16 (fine) 09:45:16 necromancer summons a xyz simulacrum 09:45:25 how is that a super special effect? 09:45:41 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:47 <|amethyst> hm 09:46:03 <|amethyst> it's not clear to me why it doesn't work 09:46:15 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-490-g7a28b9d (32) 09:46:20 <|amethyst> monsters with SPELL_SIMULACRUM should want to pickup chunks 09:46:27 <|amethyst> so they should get them 09:46:44 <|amethyst> unless they're being given itemspec equipment before being assigned their spell list 09:51:18 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:39 would "if you.uniques("Wiglaf") then" work in regular lua 10:04:22 <|amethyst> no, uniques is only in you_dlib 10:04:23 <|amethyst> so only dlua 10:04:34 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:56 plah 10:05:10 <|amethyst> what's the use case? 10:05:20 <|amethyst> s/case/case you had in mind/ 10:05:46 late version of ecumenial temple with monsters inside, don't bother with oka room if no wiglaf available 10:06:04 <|amethyst> oh, that's dlua 10:06:28 <|amethyst> I thought you meant client lua, macros etc 10:07:08 oh, good 10:22:14 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:04 temple with wiglaf? how would that work? i hope you mean a second temple? 10:37:19 second temple, yeah 10:45:47 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:59 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:15 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:50 it's kind of weird that the swamp entrance is Lair:2-5 and the rest are Lair:3-6 11:51:03 str_weight field in struct weapon_def in itemprop.cc is almost entirely unused (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5423) by reid 12:01:26 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:09 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 12:07:56 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:16 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:22 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:00 hangedman: yes, I'm not sure there is much reason for that 12:21:15 I forget how things were before lair was shortened 12:30:21 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:36:47 amulet of warding can cause monsters to travel backwards in time (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5424) by reid 12:40:24 fr chei will gift a brand of warding that causes monsters it hits to travel backwards in time 12:40:40 to when they're hurt less??? 12:42:14 yes and to where they were positioned earlier 12:42:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:45 so it's even harder to keep up melee damage 12:42:49 sounds suiting for chei 12:43:00 harder? You mean impossible 12:43:20 not impossible, just have to wait for it to not proc 12:50:34 I would submit six vaults of mine if four of them didn't rely on three different bugs to be fixed 12:50:37 sigh 13:09:00 8s placing d:14 ancient liches is fine, right? 13:11:06 ... 13:11:40 it's been like this for a *long* while 13:13:28 03elliptic * r17a8c5ec310b 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Make warded-off attacks take full energy. 13:20:05 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:42 from the silence I am guessing the answer is "yes" 13:25:35 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:27:03 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:13 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:05 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:51:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:55:57 ??8[2] 13:56:11 8[2/2]: Is also a marker for vaults to place extremely out of depth monsters; one of the oldest pieces of vault code, so said to be both traditional and valued by most devs. Good results: d:4 unseen horrors, d:5 centaur warriors, d:6 fire crabs, d:9 sphinxes, d:10 fire giants, d:11 lichs, d:14 ancient lichs. 13:58:14 8's are similar in angband vaults; I guess it probably isn't a coincidence but I don't actually know 13:59:25 can they be placed as early as d:4 in crawl? 13:59:45 also doesn't angband support just farming herbs or something at the very beginning with minimal risk 14:00:16 no 14:00:21 03elliptic * r729b628c2076 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Tentacled monstrosities: speed 9 -> 10, HD 25 -> 23. 14:00:47 ...to which? 14:01:31 angband dungeon is 100 levels deep; iirc you rarely got vaults with 8s at about depth 20, and this meant depth 60 monsters 14:01:41 the no was to the farming herbs 14:02:00 how does the depth scale out 14:03:29 well many depth 60 monsters can one-shot most depth 20 players 14:04:05 I should also say that angband 8's differ in that they come with a great item too 14:06:11 could actually put loot in minmay_three_doors so that it isn't a vault where somebody dies to an unseen horror on d:4 14:06:13 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:19 isn't *just* a vault, rather 14:06:23 you have to dig to get into those angband vaults though 14:06:31 at least most of them 14:06:38 this is true 14:06:49 also you have much better monster detection options 14:07:18 I mainly just brought angband up because I realized that they both use 8 for really out of depth monsters 14:07:21 adom is the game with herb farming, although to get to the best spot for it you have to do a little travelling 14:10:45 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:14 I quite like an idea here: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=52020#p52020 - Remove V:1-7. 14:19:41 herp 14:20:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:45 <|amethyst> HangedMan: you mentioned three bugs; what are they? 14:20:48 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:32 the mentioned a day or two ago bug where vault bands will place wallmonsters, 14:21:43 is it known that empty traps popup as mapped tiles even if you haven't been around that area? 14:22:35 if a vault in slime has walls on the border, staircases can spawn next to walls, 14:26:04 ...actually it's just those two, pah 14:26:22 wonder what the third thing I thought was blocking submittal 14:26:55 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 14:27:21 <|amethyst> HangedMan: btw, you mentioned not being able to give chunks; I can with if I specify the simulacrum spell list with necromancer spells:bolt_of_cold;bolt_of_draining;;animate_dead;simulacrum ; chunk 14:27:29 <|amethyst> but it crashes when it tries to cast simulacrum 14:27:41 wonderful 14:29:41 <|amethyst> and it doesn't give the right chunk type 14:29:50 also wonderful 14:35:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:28 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:39 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:26 <|amethyst> hm, mg.base_type is (unsigned)-1 14:42:25 <|amethyst> and the same thing happens if I try using simulacrum on the chunk 14:42:37 <|amethyst> but if I create the chunk with &% rather than as part of a monspec, it works fine 14:43:33 <|amethyst> oh 14:43:47 <|amethyst> sim_type = static_cast(item.orig_monnum - 1); 14:53:23 <|amethyst> oh, completely separate codepaths 14:53:39 so the answer is "it's a mess" 14:56:04 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:17 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:37 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:52 <|amethyst> hm... I think I can fix the crash, but I don't see an easy way to make the type non-random 15:11:03 * HangedMan shrugs 15:11:17 <|amethyst> _dgn_give_mon_spec_items() calls items() which doesn't even take the full itemspec 15:11:18 not my highest priority but one of several vault-impeding bugs will do 15:19:33 Elynae (L7 NaAr) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed. (Abyss) 15:20:18 on the other hand, while things like d:4 unseen horrors without scumming are *terrible* monstrosities, changing the 8 formula would potentially screw up vaults:8 15:21:06 <|amethyst> have a stepdown on the low end (exponential rather than logarithmic) 15:21:49 but where to place the chokepoint 15:22:00 are d:9 sphinxes too much or is it d:11 liches 15:22:37 erm s|too much|not too much| 15:23:58 <|amethyst> okay, I think I have it working 15:26:00 <|amethyst> well, kind of 15:26:17 <|amethyst> the necromancer gets the chunk half the time 15:26:28 <|amethyst> presumably the half when its original spell-list has simulacrum 15:26:41 <|amethyst> ignoring the specified spells 15:26:55 mmmmm 15:27:31 <|amethyst> that should be easy to fix, testing 15:28:03 Zorgdub the Earth Mage (L13 SEEE) ERROR in 'traps.cc' at line 1697: placeholder trap type 100 used (Lair:2) 15:29:03 <|amethyst> okay 15:42:22 03|amethyst * re7bdd53b62ba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc makeitem.cc): Make chunks in monspec item lists work better. 15:42:35 <|amethyst> HangedMan: should work now, including specific chunk types 15:42:49 <|amethyst> you can test with orc wizard spells:simulacrum ; kobold chunk 15:44:01 danke 15:44:17 any luck with the other two bugs? 15:45:09 <|amethyst> haven't looked yet 15:52:35 <|amethyst> hm.. the slime vault thing is not straightforward to fix. Currently _slime_connectivity_fixup considers anything adjacent to a vault to be disconnected (since it can't fix up the vault) 15:54:31 <|amethyst> normally it clears out a path by removing walls adjacent to the path it finds, but since the stairs aren't part of any of the components, it won't even try 15:54:49 <|amethyst> and if it did try, it would mess up the vault 15:55:06 <|amethyst> it doesn't actually try re-placing stairs 15:55:42 hmph 15:57:15 Zorgdub the Earth Mage (L13 SEEE) ERROR in 'traps.cc' at line 1697: placeholder trap type 100 used (Lair:2) 16:03:24 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:24:59 <|amethyst> hm 16:27:45 <|amethyst> my fixup prevents regular stairs from being placed adjacent to a vault 16:27:49 <|amethyst> but not the branch exits 16:28:09 <|amethyst> otoh, it appears branch exits can also be generated adjacent to natural non-vault walls 16:28:25 ...huh. 16:30:55 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:51 somebody's already died in spider's nest 16:32:04 unfortunately it was just to wiglaf 16:32:27 fr unique spider 16:40:47 Zappman123 (L25 OpTm) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed. (Crypt:1) 16:42:13 fr unique transmuter 16:42:15 :] 16:42:55 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:33 it would probably be a lot like a shapeshifter 16:43:41 maybe I'm not thinking creatively enough 16:44:56 but with less turning into harmless things if it gets unlucky? 16:45:47 eh, if you want it to avoid being harmless, just constantly shapeshift between quicksilver dragon and death drake 16:46:03 could be interesting if it has a relatively small fixed set of shapes 16:46:49 One way would be to give it forms based on player spells, but I dont know how. Like, tuning into an ice beast doesn't sound too tough 16:47:17 statue/dragon/lich 16:47:28 except lich to anything else would be cheating 16:49:21 can we change that please 16:51:47 elliptic: if that was changed, I think casting a different tmut spell should at least have a delay... 16:52:20 otherwise you could cast beastly appendage to cancel necromutation in 1 turn, and then cast borg or drink potions or something 16:52:54 isn't the ability to cancel a mutation already one turn 16:52:55 evilmike: I mean that you shouldn't be able to go directly from any form to any other form 16:52:56 is that recent change? I don't remember lichform working like that 16:53:10 st_: It did last time I tried 16:53:11 this is also relevant for ice form, if a dragon comes around the corner 16:53:14 elliptic: ah, that's also reasonable 16:53:21 I've used beastly appendage to cancel statue form a few times 16:53:44 it's really cheesy, but currently a good idea (only costs one spell level) 16:59:03 <|amethyst> I understand the reasoning for making snake/spider the choice in branch roulette... but it seems that swamp/spider and shoals/snake make more sense 16:59:07 |amethyst: what makes you think that? 16:59:23 beasts and hybrids seperation? 16:59:38 My own thinking is it's better not to have both "poison" branches in the same game 16:59:46 some people think you need rPois for swamp, but this is really not true at all 17:00:23 to not preserve the agony of not having flight and still trying to auto-ish explore 17:02:07 I think the water/nonwater grouping makes more sense but it is true that snake and shoals actually have a lot of armour/weapons 17:02:28 so from an item generation point of view, it would be more balanced the other way 17:02:39 ah, that's a good point 17:02:50 presumably both spider and swamp would have no shops, too? 17:02:53 spider does currently allow shops 17:02:54 shops currently spawn in spider 17:02:58 well, it shouldn't :P 17:03:00 need is a strong word 17:03:01 obviously 17:03:40 if you happen to be fully exploring swamp, you'd really want rpois 17:03:41 i don't know if that's necessarily a problem if the xp is tuned reasonably, anyway 17:03:49 not like there's any shortage of shops 17:04:04 no chances for bazaars either 17:04:22 almost no portal vaults besides bazaars are in any of the lair branches, right 17:04:46 can get labyrinths in any of them, as far as I know 17:06:29 kilobyte: your portal_vault branch will break compat, right? We might consider using the opportunity to shorten V 17:08:02 if Vaults is shortened I suggest making it a bit deeper as well 17:08:36 mostly to preserve the difficulty of Vault:8 17:08:47 good point 17:09:03 merge vaults and zot 17:09:07 can 8s be tweaked just a little so that there are no d:4 unseen horrors 17:09:14 or d:4 trapdoor spiders 17:09:32 or people could just stop making vaults with 8s and 9s on d:4 17:09:36 are there- 17:09:38 yeah, that 17:09:48