00:00:46 Venekor (L7 HESk) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:4) 00:00:46 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:26 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-313-g9b69d07 (32) 00:16:08 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 3.6.27/20120216013254]] 00:20:41 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-313-g9b69d07 00:40:38 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:01 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:09 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:51 -!- coshx has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:27 -!- cosh has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:02:10 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:31 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:10 anyone need a new dedicated server? https://robot.your-server.de/order/market 01:27:18 -!- bhaak_notswiss is now known as bhaak 01:34:03 -!- coshx has quit [] 01:36:47 Napkin: need, no, want, yes! :D 01:36:51 Napkin: I have my EC2 though :) 01:37:25 i'll wait a bit, maybe prices will fall more :D 01:38:03 i7-975 with 3.5tb disk and 12gb ram should be good replacement for current cdo 01:38:15 currently at 65 euro 01:38:23 *4.5tb 01:43:45 my EC2 is free :D 01:53:01 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:50 pah! 01:53:52 ;) 01:53:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:12 cloudy shit ;> 01:54:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:03 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:47 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:18:19 -!- Felyza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:20 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:27 -!- Felyza has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:14 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 02:46:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:38 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:00 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:18:52 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:32 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 03:27:37 -!- Engwar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:24 Hey anyone here with macosx that can help me with terminal settings so that crawl looks good on it? 03:31:36 One of the colours needs to be changed 03:32:08 I think black 03:36:22 In the actual terminal.app settings? 03:37:21 Or in crawl 03:37:23 !rc n78291 03:37:25 Can't find rc for n78291. 03:37:34 hm 03:38:09 I can't think of anyone who has it 03:38:13 but you can change the colour settings 03:38:41 Doesn't work in the terminal settings, changing black will also fade the text 03:38:52 maybe I can dig in the rc 03:38:52 darkgrey then? I can't remember which one it is 03:38:57 It's definitely in the rc though 03:40:02 is there any help for rc editing somewhere? 03:40:20 There should be comments in the default options file 03:46:57 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:30 Engwar: are there some colors "invisible"? 03:48:54 yes 03:49:15 there's a black background and I can't see the characters on top that are black as well 03:49:36 ah, then set "Use bright colors for bold text" in the terminal settings as here: http://www.twam.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/text.png 03:53:47 nope, not working still. Here's a screenshot http://d.pr/3ISu 03:55:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:06 I also tried setting colour.black = lightgray in the rc file, but without effect 03:58:22 background = white doesn't work either 03:58:52 darkgrey is the colour you can't see 03:58:54 the terminal settings look right. if your terminal is using the Basic theme it should be okay :/ 03:59:11 darkgrey? I'll give it a go 03:59:15 R18 (L24 DrTm) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed. (D:27) 04:01:33 i haven't set "colour.lightgray = black" in my rc and it's working with those terminal settings 04:01:50 colour.darkgrey = white fixed it 04:01:53 thanks 04:02:35 ah, darkgrey :) 04:05:15 hmm, after a quick glance at the source, darkgray _should_ be working as well. or i'm missing something and the synonym isn't working for that case 04:06:04 it's quite weird, because I think the terminal is not emulating enough colours 04:06:23 there is no destinction between white and lightgrey for example 04:06:30 *distinction 04:07:00 I think it's a known issue with Terminal for MacOSX? 04:12:53 bold black on black is a known "issue". 04:13:47 works in iTerm 04:14:11 text appears dark grey as it should 04:14:16 it's actually doing it correctly but most other terminals do show dark grey by default. but the osx terminal can show more than 16 colors, so it has a dark grey too 04:17:45 have you changed something in the terminal emulation settings? when I change to ansi the colors appear 04:18:53 Ok, declaring terminal as xterm-color fixes the colors and everything appears normal without editing the rc file 04:21:46 wow this is way faster than the tiles version... 04:22:07 ah, could to know that you also have to set xterm-color 04:27:45 -!- Engwar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:29:38 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:55:16 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-304-gd590066 05:00:32 hey marvin 05:13:44 -!- bhaak is now known as kerio` 05:13:51 -!- kerio` is now known as bhaak 05:24:44 -!- ctair has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 05:25:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:36:58 <3 the repaired roguey levels 05:45:38 Keskitalo, they also no longer have extreme special rooms (in master)! 05:46:09 That's nice as well! 05:47:21 repaired? 05:47:39 i thought just doors were added? 05:49:29 Zaba fixed it a couple of versions(?) ago, it used to always(?) build another layout type on top of it. 05:49:45 half of the time, not always 05:50:23 Ach. I just don't remember seeing unmangled ones before, though that's probably just my memory playing tricks then. 05:51:56 * due extremes 06:10:47 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:16:14 Engwar (L2 HEVM) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:1) 06:29:51 -!- cosh has quit [] 06:33:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:55 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:52 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 07:08:56 Synoecium (L1 OpSu) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:1) 07:40:31 Plate armor has no description. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5377) by zasvid 07:46:26 foomla (L4 HOPr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:3) 07:55:44 Randart body armour of Bugginess (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5378) by zasvid 08:09:36 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:37 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:09 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:17 due: ossuary_due_cavern says it should be looked at once noise/stealth is redone, and it should. so far no guardian mummies have woken up on their own 08:17:36 ouch 08:17:47 i actually thought there was something in some of the pillars so i opened two of them on purpose, then looked up the vault description 08:18:17 that vault hasn't worked properly ever afaik 08:18:35 noise just doesn't go through walls 08:19:18 could drop the secret doors and put the guardian mummies into out of sight corners 08:19:22 I think the correct fix is probably to make noise go through walls (with substantial loss of volume) 08:19:36 note that the flying skulls behind glass don't do anything either 08:19:41 heh 08:19:43 maybe.. generate_awake guardian mummies should be placed there with lua once the message cell is reached? :P 08:20:06 zaba: the idea is supposed to be that there is a stealth check when passing flying skulls behind glass 08:21:00 I'm actually not sure whether noise goes through secret doors... it might, but it doesn't matter unless the player shouts for no reason or something 08:21:12 you.skill("Stealth") exists 08:21:19 but yeah, that's probably a bad idea 08:27:25 who reworked the noise system? Wasn't it Darshan? 08:27:41 yeah 08:27:49 I think it was supposed to make noise go through wall and reduce it 08:27:59 did it ever work? 08:39:05 no 08:39:15 it used to ignore walls, now it stops at walls totally 08:39:43 noise stops at walls? 08:41:22 yes, though it floodfills around corners iirc 08:44:19 is options_guide.txt updated automatically or manually? 08:44:22 build with -DDEBUG_NOISE_PROPAGATION and you'll get nice HTML visualisation of noise propagation 08:44:27 perhaps walls could have a vastly increased weight, but not block sound completely? 08:44:30 nfogravity: manually :( 08:44:37 okay just checking 08:44:56 no real way to update documentation automatically 08:45:04 kilobyte: I guess so. And it seems pretty simple to implement. Just edit noise_attenuation_millis 08:45:25 i didn't think so, i just didn't want to add an option in the code without doing it right 08:45:54 statues has 2x attenuation. Tree x3. Doors x8. 08:47:19 i'm trying to implement this visualize hp button on console. evilmike gave a suggestion, which is that you should push it once to turn it on and then any other action would turn it off 08:47:34 are there currently any bools set like that in the code? 08:47:46 maybe we should reduce door attenuation to x6 and use x8 or x10 to walls. Will do some tests. 08:49:55 nfogravity: visualize HP? Monster HP? 08:50:15 yeah, https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5376 08:50:27 nfogravity: maybe crawl_state could hold such variable 08:50:50 the current implementation is really barebones 08:51:34 you hit the button, it switches a flag in _get_mons_colour and calls redraw_screen() 08:52:34 crawl_state is a very good idea 08:52:44 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:46 i put the bool in options.h for want of a better spot 08:59:20 is there a command that redraws just monsters on the screen? 09:05:25 viewwindow refresh only the viewport 09:08:00 oh brilliant 09:09:04 I you shout right next to a wall, you should be heard from the other side, right? 09:09:14 what kind of wall :D 09:11:49 I don't think we want different attenuation for different types of walls 09:12:36 _A glowing angel comes into view. It is wielding a runed quick blade. 09:12:37 wtf? 09:13:02 awesome 09:13:15 is that a bug? 09:13:40 galehar: if you shout next to a wall you should be able to be heard only at adjacent-to-wall tiles, imo 09:13:48 crawl walls are presumably pretty thick 09:14:30 <|amethyst> Eronarn: angel god:zin name:glowing n_adj ; any weapon level:20 ego:holy_wrath 09:14:54 <|amethyst> (1/4 chance) 09:14:58 <|amethyst> probably should have its ego identified 09:16:04 we definitely need an arthropod race now that poison vuln is in 09:16:09 attenuation x12 for walls seem to be working ok 09:21:29 03galehar * rc58e53b4f872 10/crawl-ref/source/ (noise.h shout.cc): Walls don't completely block noise. 09:29:57 galehar: nice! 09:30:07 pretty big balance change 09:30:12 it's been no-sound-through-walls for a while now 09:30:24 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: later] 09:31:02 is there a .11 planning page yet? 09:31:13 Eronarn: it's a bit attenuation. Only loud sounds go through and not by much. 09:31:58 there's still room for adjustment, always is. But high attenuation makes more sense than complet block, which is weird. 09:32:17 s/bit/big/ 09:32:53 does it play nice with the going around corners? 09:33:29 galehar: right, not saying it's bad... i think it should've been this way sooner, if anything 09:33:31 dpeg: over 2000 responses! 09:33:34 now loud spells will actually matter 09:33:37 because a change like that sounds like it could potentially make noise propagation take much longer to calculate 09:34:20 Ragdoll: can you give intermediary results again? 09:34:26 from what I recall of the sound code that might end up killing sound around corners because the path through the wall is shorter 09:35:04 the most basic results are here: https://crawl.develz.org/survey/statistics_user.php?sid=99834 09:35:29 what about the fancier results? 09:35:56 how fancy are we talking here? 09:36:20 that autogenerated pdf file 09:37:37 Jet (L5 HESt) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:3) 09:39:05 it is taking its time 09:41:36 i think this is fancy enough then: https://crawl.develz.org/survey/upload/surveys/99834/images/results.pdf 09:43:01 thx 09:44:03 wow, analyzing what people wrote will probably be a lot of work 09:44:24 lots of people seem to have actually answered those questions 09:46:17 yes, indeed. 09:46:56 the average age is surprisingly high 09:48:05 and it´s even being brought down by 2 year olds 09:50:46 poor ranged combat 09:54:44 20% prefer to move with mouseclick WHAT 09:59:46 its very useful 10:00:22 a lot of work that, after some filtering, tells you a lot about fields where crawl can improve 10:01:29 sure. im just surprised by the volume. some fields have 500+ answers 10:02:45 and a few even 1000+ 10:07:10 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:25:46 anyone feel like testing out my new button? 10:28:19 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28:47 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:49 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:08 i'd like to work on ranged combat next 10:35:26 howso 10:35:26 well, there's a lot of work there 10:35:34 what do you want to tackle? 10:36:14 i'm not sure, but it seems like there's a lot to do. i'm reading the brainstorm page 10:36:48 I think it would be best to start by going over the launcher/missile brands. Maybe remove some so there's no overlap. 10:37:14 i'd like to get +0 ammo totally removed from crawl in .11 10:37:19 other than for throwing 10:37:38 nfogravity: the ranged combat code is quite messy 10:37:41 the suggestion was to remove ammo enchantment completely 10:37:49 anyway, have to go 10:37:51 'later 10:37:58 nfogravity: yeah i think material works far better 10:38:00 a lot of code seems kind of messy 10:40:14 i'd like to see, when you pick up a bow: a) unlimited normal arrows b) you can pick up 'silver arrows', 'exploding arrows', 'barbed arrows', etc. as sort of a consumable powerup (counterpoint to e.g. being able to use Might to boost melee damage) c) launcher brands and enchantment work exactly like melee weaponry 10:40:58 this also works for crossbows 10:41:14 unlimited normal arrows would mean sticks to snakes would have to change 10:41:32 taco (L3 SETm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:1) 10:42:02 blowgun enchantment needs to matter, and no enchanting needles (also a good idea to fix the new needles still being weird) 10:42:12 slings can work like crossbows/bows 10:42:18 this leaves only throwing - which is a bit trickier 10:42:44 how are the new needles weird? 10:43:07 they weren't planned very well, maybe they've been patched since but they had very weird success rules 10:44:19 one way to handle throwing would be to just simply make it worse by not having a 'free' attack, since a) it shares a skill with slings b) no swapping to launcher needed 10:45:15 if that were done, you could have the throwing items have a limited base type... so there would still be stacks of stones and darts 10:46:07 what do you mean by a free attack 10:46:19 nfogravity: the unlimited basic attack of launchers 10:46:39 oh i see 10:47:55 throwing is the only reason i haven't made an actual proposal for this yet, i'm kind of stuck on it 10:48:00 what if 10:49:17 there was an item like "a pouch of stones," "a pouch of darts," "a quiver of arrows", that you could Quiver for use, wield for sticks to snakes, and that produced +0 ammo that never remains after firing 10:51:19 plus this would lead to the message "A small snake leaps out of your quiver!" 10:51:21 which is cool. 10:51:36 probably "slithers" but whatever 10:58:16 nfogravity: i don't think we need to worry about sticks to snakes. it works with clubs and stuff too 10:58:30 it's only a L2 spell, it's fine if it's not that good 10:58:56 haha, i don't want to nerf transmuters any more 10:59:20 if anything they need a serious buff 10:59:30 just give them some more unarmed skill, or add another spell to the book 11:00:31 tmut as a school really needs overhaul anyways 11:01:16 wrt the pouch idea... i could see that working in some game but no need to quiver it for the +0 ammo, no need to worry about s2s, and sandblast should probably stay limited use anyways 11:01:45 oh one other thing 11:02:00 make all non-large ammo mulch on hit 11:02:04 what do you mean by "working in some game" 11:02:29 nfogravity: some non-crawl game... it doesn't really fit with the way crawl handles inventory 11:02:38 that makes sense, i agree 11:05:27 i think we could also justify removing the throwability of all the non-consumables 11:05:46 nooooo 11:06:17 berserkers should be able to throw books forever 11:06:24 oh no i mean 11:06:33 the use of axes/spears/daggers as good throwing weapons 11:06:54 And set them on fire in midair 11:07:32 if it were up to me books would appear in the missiles menu if you worship trog 11:07:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:47 i don't feel being able to use them in that way adds much to the game... and if we make throwing more strict (only with consumables or via a sling launcher), we can add some new consumables to fill the niche between darts and javelins 11:08:26 (also, with the new skill training system, it'd be no problem to have throwing only raisable (without a sling) by consumables) 11:09:15 the current system certainly needs work, this CeHu is tedious on d:2 11:09:27 try out TOME4, that's what i'm basing my suggestions on 11:10:27 there: you equip launchers like in crawl, they're enchanted like in crawl, they have a default attack (like +0), all ammo you find on the ground (in stacks like in crawl) has further magical effects and quivering replaces the default arrows for all launcher attacks 11:10:33 it works *SO MUCH BETTER* 11:10:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:18 interesting 11:12:30 does all ammo mulch in TOME? 11:17:40 yes 11:19:39 of course, there's the other mammoth part of ranged combat: the formulas 11:19:46 yeah, there is that 11:20:00 what's the best way to test stuff like that 11:20:09 write a test, or use arena 11:21:22 i don't know how to do those! where can i find out? 11:35:25 i don't know anything about using arena... and crawl doesn't really have tests 11:36:19 but for a test you'd generally try to construct a scenario (say, start a new game + load a specific map) and monitor what happens each time it's played out 11:36:26 Eronarn: unlimited ammo would make my chars 3x stronger, huge rebalancing imho. also no reason to disarm traps anymore 11:36:58 kek: well, it would occur at the same time as nerfing ranged combat damage output heavily. and the second part is a *good* thing :P 11:37:14 what really? 11:38:11 what really what 11:38:43 the formulas need reworking, but i don't think a flat nerf is a good idea 11:38:50 rangers aren't fun to play now 11:39:12 nfogravity: you can get insane damage later game with the way the formulas work 11:39:22 kill orbs of fire in a few hits 11:39:27 well idk if good, maybe neutral at best? disarming traps is a classic dungeon crawl (d&d, etc) feature. as is limited ammo 11:39:42 i've never disarmed a trap ever 11:39:53 kek: those types of traps are already being discussed for cutting 11:39:59 perhaps even the entire skill 11:40:09 they're traditional in D&D, but they really don't work well in roguelikes 11:40:59 i think it s nice now, i disarm most for extra ammo if i have the launcher. the skill could be out tho imho 11:41:26 well, if launcher ammo weren't an issue, the trap would just fire a limited number of times before breaking 11:41:29 you could disarm them for branded ammo 11:41:31 and disarming wouldn't give you anything 11:41:46 traps should fire branded ammo, clearly 11:42:06 which will be at a premium 11:42:24 i dunno about that... especially if we're talking about redoing what kind of ammo brands are available 11:43:01 clear out the enchant levels and replace with a more flexible selection of brands, right? 11:43:08 also just because it works a certain way doesn't mean it has to continue. trap disarming is bad enough when used for normal purposes, but harvesting ammo is just even more irritating 11:43:25 i dunno, i think this is interesting 11:43:33 think about wands 11:43:42 doesn t enchanted traps break consistency principle? coming from d&d background would be weird zot having the time to enchant billions of projectiles lol 11:43:53 in the late game you never want to pick up a wand of flame because it sucks 11:44:12 nfogravity: i'd like to see the arrows feel a little more like 'special' arrows, perhaps even non-magic ones 11:44:19 agreed 11:44:26 like... barbed arrow (causes bleeding) 11:45:02 my suggestion would be that bows fire +0 arrows natively and damage scales up modestly with enchantment to the bow 11:45:12 but significantly with arrow enchantment 11:45:19 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:39 i don't think we should keep arrow enchantment at all... just have default arrows, then some special kinds, and maybe one or two special kinds give a damage boost 11:45:46 er sorry 11:45:49 arrow brand 11:46:21 that way archers would play like a long-term artificer 11:46:53 though, that's one question: should there be stronger/weaker arrow brands, like with wands? 11:47:08 perhaps the nonmagical ones are weaker and more common early 11:47:08 i'd say no, i think it should be more like spellcasting 11:47:21 but there are stronger and weaker spells :P 11:47:24 oh that is true 11:47:59 stuff like explosion is currently really powerful early game and really weak later 11:48:17 perhaps there could be some arrow brands which are really powerful later but don't even show up earlier 11:48:27 strong poison, for example 11:49:04 or chaos 11:49:06 this would completely change how you deal with centaur packs 11:49:10 perhaps even banishing 11:49:18 since they'd all probably carry a few powerful arrows 11:49:35 oh, you would definitely want to highly limit that 11:49:52 ranged enemies would be getting a huge boost by not being able to run out of basic ammo 11:50:09 not if we also nerf the damage output for unbranded ammo 11:50:17 better to make powerup ammo only show up in unique inventory, or on the floor 11:50:51 nfogravity: well, they might be weaker if you rush them, but they'd be much harder to kill if you couldn't do it without ammo milking previously 11:51:04 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:05 mm 11:51:23 also: this would be an excellent opportunity to add new buff spells for NPCs, which give powerup ammo to allies 11:52:32 spells that would stay out of player hands? 11:53:23 i think it would be really interesting if arcane marksmen could enchant their bow like how skalds do with their melee 11:53:46 (...do skald spells work on bows?) 11:55:09 that was what the old AM did, it was pretty boring though 11:55:32 this might make it more interesting 11:55:39 the new one feels really weird to me 11:56:54 if you had a spell that could enchant your bow for a single attack of a significantly stronger brand 12:03:03 i think we could balance damage output by having damage output from skill scale up the branded component of damage much more than the unbranded component, is my point 12:05:24 plus, something like Hellfire Arrow (L9 fire/tmut) sounds incredible 12:06:26 nfogravity: as was said, old AM did it... it would work much better with default +0 though 12:06:40 when was old am removed? 12:06:42 because then the spell would just add a new option to the 'powerup' slot for the duration 12:06:48 a long time ago 12:06:55 its spells permabranded ammo, it was terrible 12:06:58 ew 12:07:27 yeah i'm suggesting VERY short duration spells that do what you say 12:07:43 i guess depending on the specific spell, you might be able to get away with it working with all arrows, not just default ones... but very spell specific anyways 12:07:52 also depends on how powerup arrows are flavored 12:08:06 this sounds really fun to me, honestly 12:08:15 i'd like to play that class 12:08:42 it'd be fun. i think it would work better with tmut though 12:08:55 agreed 12:09:09 hex = it's weird if you can't 'enchant' your 'barbed arrow' 12:09:14 as AM is now, i don't understand it 12:09:15 tmut = it makes sense you'd always want to fire plain arrows 12:09:19 exactly 12:10:01 a thing i've wanted for a while now: sticks to snakes, except instead of wielding, you fire an arrow which turns into a snake in mid flight 12:10:03 and it would be balanced around having to brand your bow before you fire 12:10:23 or possibly right after it hits 12:10:52 actually hey wait they have it on youtube 12:11:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_DUMmFKNU 12:11:46 are there even "!!!" messages for bows right now? 12:11:53 don't think so 12:12:09 i'd like to see them, specialized to the damage type 12:12:37 ahahha YES 12:13:17 actually they don't show it later but it just turns back into a normal snake afterwards 12:13:21 and starts hissing 12:13:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:11 of course, there's the crossbow/arrow vs. sling thing to think of 12:15:24 feels wrong to have a spell that doesn't work with one launcher at all 12:15:29 agreed 12:15:44 i'm entirely okay with spells working for all of them, and all ammo branded 12:15:57 Was the ability to use Fire Brand etc on launchers removed with AM overhaul? 12:16:14 especially since there are some races for which slings are much more flavourful 12:16:37 Keskitalo: i think it still works 12:16:51 which is bad imo 12:18:14 one problem that was run into before is the way brands interact... if one is all 'substance' and one is all 'flavor' (e.g., steel vs. fire) it works out fine 12:18:27 Eronarn: I think the idea of unlimited basic ammo and special item ammo sounds good. 12:18:29 but keeping that distribution also limits stuff a lot 12:18:39 like not being able to have both poison launchers and poison ammo 12:18:44 i want arrows of flaming poison gdi 12:18:58 we should consider whether we want to sacrifice some flavor to be able to keep stuff consistent, or have a bunch of weird cases :/ 12:19:00 I won and enjoyed an old AM, I don't think it's unfun or so.. but that sounds like it could be better. 12:19:21 You can still keep the idea of "ammo is scarce" (or just finite) through the special ammo. 12:21:08 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:10 one idea would be to have special ammo specially named 12:21:20 and spells add brands via {} 12:21:36 yeah... also a lot more attachment to the ammo, because stuff like 'slimy arrows' is so much better than +0 arrows of slime 12:21:59 and then nessos could cast "ignite arrow" on his poisoned arrow 12:22:02 Dropping the ammo enchantment sounded good too. 12:22:07 to get poison arrow {on fire} 12:22:49 nfogravity: ignite arrow? pfft. magmarrow 12:23:07 that will be for the late-game nessos angel i implement later 12:24:17 what do we think the launcher brands should be anyways 12:24:37 right now it's... penetration, vorp, fire, cold, poison, reaping ?, elec 12:24:48 and speed 12:24:53 remove the elemental ones 12:25:09 i don't think penetration does what the name suggests 12:26:12 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:32 an honest-to-god penetration would make vorpal scrolls prized though 12:26:52 holy, sort of 12:26:55 you can affix it at least 12:27:15 so i guess 12:27:25 nfogravity: penetration weapon brand makes it go through multiple enemies. it's brutal 12:27:31 and i think it should be an arrow property insted 12:28:19 i feel like we could cut it down to vorp, speed, evasion (forgot that one) for the launchers themselves 12:28:40 we should add more base launcher types then 12:28:41 make unrand launchers be special because they make un-special ammo become special 12:28:46 er not base 12:29:10 more types of bows, crossbows, slings 12:29:17 so that you don't go enchanting up the bow you start with 12:29:21 we should bring back hand crossbows :( 12:29:39 i don't think adding lots of types of launcher would be an improvement 12:29:43 not lots 12:29:45 i'd like to see: shortbow->bow->longbow; handcrossbow->crossbow->arbalest 12:29:49 agreed 12:29:58 that's just 3 new ones, and crossbow only having 1 is bad anyways 12:30:00 that's what i mean 12:30:08 Aren't handcrossbows supposed to be usable with a shield thuogh= 12:30:08 ? 12:30:24 and short bows too 12:30:32 that would be interesting 12:30:36 yeah, people have used bows + bucklers irl before 12:31:08 ok cool 12:31:12 Sling niche 12:31:19 god yes 12:31:57 short/hand bows can be used with bucklers but only slings with shield/large shield? 12:32:03 yes 12:32:07 Is that nicke big enough though? 12:32:13 Keskitalo: yeah, i'd limit it to just smaller shields (i don't think you should be able to use bows/crossbows with a shield/large shield at all) 12:32:24 whereas slings can work with any 12:32:39 ghallberg -- it means that anyone who uses a one-handed weapon can have ammo on switch 12:33:04 also keep in mind that sling shares a skill with throwing 12:33:07 so it doesn't need to be as good 12:33:09 this is good because it gives heavy armour + shield fighters something else to train 12:33:19 it won't be as good 12:33:39 uh, slings use slings skill 12:34:03 A random tangent, giant spores are really trivial to handle by throwing anything at it. Even with no throw skill. Thoughts? 12:34:27 give them the jelly code without telling anyone 12:36:40 um, on that note, how about making throwing comparable by making evaporate do to potions what arrow spells would do to arrows >.> 12:40:28 ooh i thought of something 12:40:33 yeah? 12:40:58 Throwable potions <3 That's never been suggested before! 12:40:59 since slings are on throwing, but so are darts/javelins, you can make slings better not by boosting raw damage but by making them access a totally different set of powerups 12:41:16 piercing ones vs. bludgeoning ones 12:41:17 [18:33:34] <+MarvinPA> uh, slings use slings skill# 12:41:27 oh, i thought they got merged! 12:41:32