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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:19 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 01:25:08 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:01 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:01 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 01:37:09 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:14 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:54 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:32 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:31 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:08 -!- Jude__ has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:26 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 01:50:26 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:50:26 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:50:39 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as 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has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:24 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:44 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:36 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:39 -!- monqy_ has quit [Quit: hello] 03:12:42 -!- kilobyte_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:19:34 -!- Jude__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:36 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:21:36 -!- due has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:21:36 -!- Gretell has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:04 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:44 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:33 -!- casmith790 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:38:33 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:34 -!- Jude__ is now known as due 03:38:34 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 03:38:34 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:53 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:25 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:46 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:29 can someone set 4898 from closed to resolved? I accidentally ticked "close immediately" 04:08:58 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:25:27 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:56 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-135-g4a26730 05:32:42 03elliptic * rf20edffdd0c1 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix comment. 05:43:02 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:43 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:58:35 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:01:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:01:06 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:01:32 I wonder about the uninterruptible huge delay for changing heavy armour 06:02:22 it seems that the only real reason to make it uninterruptible is to kill players randomly when they change armour with an unknown monster around the corner... 06:03:55 elliptic: could be technical reasons; NetHack has two different armour routines that handle interruption in different ways, and they're /both/ wrong 06:05:57 well, butchering gets interrupted fairly well 06:08:10 in vanilla NetHack, "T" is uninterruptible, "A" can be interrupted but causes you to not be wearing the armour afterwards, and the rest of the time it would take to take it off is instead added onto the next time you use the A command 06:08:28 both seem reasonably suboptimal 06:09:55 well, I'd say that if you are interrupted while trying to take off an armour, then you should still be wearing the armour, and if you are interrupted while trying to put on an armour, then you should not be wearing it 06:10:34 the main question is what should constitute an interruption 06:10:58 The same things that interfere with memorization? 06:12:57 maybe, though that would mean that you basically can't change heavy armour while poisoned... 06:13:25 possibly poison shouldn't stop memorization either though 06:13:44 it possibly should if it's about to kill you 06:14:59 unless you're trying to learn Cure Poison 06:15:45 some things should stop you optionally 06:15:53 like being teleported 06:16:16 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:17:31 jarpiain: now, /that's/ a NetHack-style exception (in NetHack, detect food is the only spell that can be cast while weak from hunger) 06:17:33 I do wonder how the delay for, e.g. taking off chain was considered 06:17:50 (it takes less time than removing leather armour, in my experience) 06:21:38 -!- rawrmage_ is now known as rawrmage 06:21:46 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 06:21:46 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:53 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:00 currently it simply takes 1 + base AC turns to equip or unequip an armour 06:31:47 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:12 maybe give Encumbered status for half-donned armour 06:40:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:20 elliptic: i think theres a recently edited wiki article for this 06:42:48 its added by xuaxua, but it seems fairly reasonable 06:43:14 at least the armor part 06:44:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:29 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:gameplay:interrupted_activities 06:58:59 elliptic: it's like in RL: try doing something with a half-worn sweater 06:59:38 except that a plate is 7658976893476 worse 07:00:10 kilobyte: sure, but does it need to paralyze you for 11 turns? 07:02:19 Bearing in mind the satedness from a bread ration I can't see how it only takes 3 turns to finish it 07:02:22 comapred to 11 turns to put on plate 07:02:30 not sure what actions would be allowable with half-worn armour 07:02:50 what can you do when you're in a net? 07:02:55 your ev drops to 0 07:02:58 perhaps walking at ~1/4 speed... No casting, no reading, no potions, no about anything. 07:02:59 you can't move 07:03:46 even decreasing the delay would be a vast improvement, if we want to keep it uninterruptible 07:03:51 Maybe all the penalties of being armoured (so casting is impaired), and all the penalties of not being armoured (so no ac) 07:04:07 seems like a case where being realistic doesn't really add much at all, gameplay-wise 07:04:29 but reduce the time it takes? 07:04:51 phyphor: uhm... 3 turns for eating vs 11 for wearing a plate is not "only 3" 07:06:43 skilled medieval people needed 5-10 minutes for a full plate with someone to help, more for "gothic"/Maximilian armour 07:06:57 and it was for practical purposes impossible to do by yourself 07:07:05 the point is to stop you from changing armour in combat, so making it either like spell memorisation or just the same but with a much shorter delay both seem reasonable 07:07:39 kilobyte: and they could completely stuff themselves eating bread in half that time? 07:08:09 and yeah, realism seems basically already totally out of the window here :P 07:09:06 you don't need a servant to eat a meal... it's comparing doing a team task by yourself to something you can do easily 07:09:27 elliptic: that's what I was asking, yes 07:09:58 kilobyte: it also depends what we mean by "full plate" 07:10:12 bearing in mind in Crawl it's body armour, and possibly body + upper legs 07:10:33 whereas the 5-10 minutes with an assistant is more for the all-encompassing stuff 07:10:34 kilobyte: if we are seriously worrying about people needing assistance to put on plate, let's go ahead and make it impossible to put on or take off plate armour without a friendly humanoid adjacent to you 07:10:40 it would be a beogh buff :P 07:10:43 also, plate can't be that unwieldy or you couldn't run with it on 07:10:52 "full plate" doesn't refer to legs, it means "with a back" 07:11:09 (jousting armour tended to skip back protection) 07:11:18 kilobyte: yes, and putting on body armour plate only is not that difficult, at all 07:11:36 medieval armour is pretty non-unwieldy when worn properly 07:11:40 if you think about it, it would have to be 07:11:42 drop it to the ground and crawl into it? :p 07:12:21 again, when we say "Plate armour" are we meaing "armour made from plates" or "solid pate"? 07:12:58 basically breast + back plate 07:13:18 that was the reason for the "plate MAIL" change 07:13:21 yeah 07:13:25 I was here for that 07:13:27 I was talking about that earlier 07:13:36 I was curious why "plate mail" was changed but the other "mail"s weren't 07:13:47 since the others are also incorrect usage of the term 07:13:52 the inconsistency confused me a bit 07:13:57 and, also, whether it's two pieces that connect, which is incredibly easy to put on 07:14:00 heck, easier than chain 07:14:08 which can be easier than full leather 07:14:30 there are only two meanings of "mail" that I know of: The original and currently accepted meaning synonymous with "chainmail", and the neologistic casual one used in video games a lot that just means "metallic armor" 07:15:00 I assumed "plate mail" was changed for accuracy of nomenclature, which made me wonder why none of the others were changed along with it 07:15:57 hangedmans catlobe abyss vault seems to be broken 07:16:11 it shifts walls in places it should not 07:16:17 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:53 basically, if semantic accuracy is the goal then all the metal armours except chain should be renamed to " armour" instead of " mail" ("chain mail" is redundant but more recognizable than "chain armour" or "mail armour") 07:22:41 kilobyte: also, if we are going to have a realism debate, crawl characters are clearly superhumanly strong... a strength 18 human can carry 8 plate armours without being encumbered at all 07:23:05 doesn't seem unreasonable that this sort of thing would make putting plate armour on much easier as well :P 07:24:24 crawl characters also get significantly hungry in the time it takes to fight and kill a bunch of dudes 07:24:33 (also they can't swim) 07:24:55 well, no wonder they can't swim given how much weight they usually carry :P 07:25:20 (crawl also has a multi-level swamp and ocean of some sort) 07:26:06 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:10 multilevel swamps and oceans.. under the ground! 07:26:11 I agree with elliptic and marvinPA. Realism hurts gameplay too much here (and we're not even realistic anyway). 07:26:14 yeah, multi-level ocean is especially wrong 07:26:36 I don't see much wrong with an underground sea, though 07:26:42 I'd say making it interruptible is better than reducing duration 07:26:44 partially flooded carverns 07:26:57 although plants there are outright bad 07:27:40 underground sea is fine, yeah 07:27:50 I'd say plants are bad, but obviously there's some kind of light since you and the monsters can see 07:27:54 solution: make shoals one level long 07:28:01 elliptic: and swamp please 07:28:10 underground _open_ sea is odd, though 07:28:25 the caverns could be above sea level 07:28:54 it could be done like Diablo 1 vs Diablo 2: instead of small Nethack-like levels, the map can be big and scroll horizontally 07:29:21 or perhaps even "stairs" at the edge 07:29:21 kilobyte: could just simulate that by having all the "stairs" be at the edge of the map 07:29:23 yeah 07:32:11 if we ever get spider working as a branch and make it so that you always get one of swamp/shoals and one of spider/snake (I forget whether this was the plan), changing swamp/shoals layout like this could be good 07:32:35 it would be interesting to have a "wet" environment and a "poison" environment 07:32:36 is a spider branch necessary? Snake and Swamp are already pretty poison-heavy 07:32:45 seems a little redundant maybe 07:32:55 wait you just addressed that sorta 07:32:56 maybe make swamp less poison-y and more wet? 07:32:56 ignore me 07:33:00 swamp doesn't really have much poison unless you get one of the swamp dragon ends 07:33:09 elliptic: swamp dragons and swamp dragons or whatever 07:33:10 swamp isn't very poisony, and spider has the hellspider as its gimmick in theory 07:33:32 wait, I'm implicitly validating the existence of swamp 07:34:40 not sure how to continue there... Spider as-is is Keskitalian, Spider with hellspider is dpegian. Whom to listen to for guidance and design? :p 07:35:09 bring in b0rsuk for crawl dev leader 07:35:24 G-Flex: about the only annoyance in current swamp is monsters fleeing from you 07:35:59 swamp itself is an annoyance to me; it's featureless and a pain to navigate, especially with submerging enemies 07:36:08 just not much fun about it 07:36:33 phyphor: there's an idea to generate one wet and one poisonous branch per game 07:36:53 (Swamp has some poison, Spider some water, but not much) 07:37:09 too few hydras IMO 07:37:33 swamp is basically five levels of exactly the same layout except for the ending vault and occasionally one of those big circular pond things 07:37:36 kilobyte: I'm agreeing with this 07:38:31 i think evilmike was working on some serial vaults for swamp but wasn't very happy with how they worked out, would be cool if someone could get something like that working 07:38:45 to break up the layout occasionally 07:39:18 I actually think "spider" should be "insects/bugs" and include cockroaches, ants and beeeeees 07:39:21 but that's me 07:39:26 if swamp were more interesting/had some good vaults, it would certainly help, although it's still a bit of pain to get around in 07:39:41 lots of vaults in Swamp would be great, yeah 07:40:01 and big ones rather than small gimmicks 07:40:53 would it be interesting to make swamp more "jungle-y"? 07:41:14 phyphor: a little less watery then, and more land animal sort of monsters? 07:41:21 yeah 07:41:34 phyphor: an idea: we could have different parts of the swamp have different feels 07:41:36 still wet, just not as outright wet 07:41:51 then you could have "an elephant graveyard" type vault, for example 07:42:10 Do we have an elephant unique? (some kind of mammoth)? 07:42:17 Nellie 07:42:39 meh, I'm no dev, I just throw ideas in to play and let you guys shoot them down or filter out the gold from the shit :) 07:42:44 would be badly out of depth there, though 07:42:56 well, nvm then 07:42:58 @??Nellie 07:42:59 Nellie (13Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 20 | Health: 240 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Damage: 45, 20, 15 | Flags: 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(133), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4813 | Sp: fire breath (3d40), blink. 07:43:06 nellie's more a unique hellephant 07:43:09 yeah 07:43:18 demonic = hellephant 07:43:26 some more unintelligent uniques wouldn't necessarily be bad 07:43:31 vindicated! 07:43:32 Mu made an elephant graveyard vault 07:43:48 Mollusc Lord? 07:44:54 (a pan lord Linley Henzell made in truly ancient versions of Crawl but never enabled. Ridiculously easy, around a death yak.) 07:45:00 and nellie is sprint only 07:45:11 Do we have hippos? if not, why not 07:45:27 we don't, afaik 07:45:40 hippos and rhinos (oh my!) 07:45:44 might be too similar to elephants/yaks/death yaks though 07:45:48 yeah 07:45:50 (and dire elephants) 07:45:50 we have hippogriffs :P 07:46:04 "death yaks" :/ 07:46:12 FR: hippos can swallow you whole, leading to a sort of mini-trove where every floor tile is acidic 07:46:17 admittedly not as bad as "death cob" or "killer klown" 07:46:46 I give zot a pass on having incredibly bizarre garbage 07:47:05 kilobyte: having a few special animal uniques would make lair more cool I think, perhaps a unique drake as a reference to 4.1a too 07:47:22 death yaks could feasibly be replaced with another "big animal" monster if necessary 07:47:29 good reason to get rid of guys like jozef and harold 07:47:34 st_: hey, as long as there's a chance of getting dpeg back, no corsairs :p 07:48:08 yeah, Jozef and Harold suck 07:48:18 st_: a swamp octopus? 07:48:19 G-Flex: I'd suggest Rhinocerous, but I can't justify them being poisonous 07:48:30 kilobyte: swamptopus! 07:48:37 rhinos would probably also charge you 07:49:00 oh, hippos would also be amphibious 07:49:01 +1 for lair-specific uniques... lair doesn't have many uniques as is compared with the rest of the game 07:49:06 G-Flex: indeed 07:49:34 blue "Y" named "Babe" 07:49:40 elliptic: I seem to get Louise and Donald there like every single time 07:49:50 which is not a good place, I think 07:50:02 kilobyte: I mean lair 07:50:07 not lair branches 07:50:13 ah right 07:50:14 they already have tons of uniques 07:51:09 another thought - if we're guaranteeing one "wet" and one "poison" branch it might be nice to have a mini-vault or similar that gives you the flavour of the non-generated one 07:51:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:51:30 that's not a terrible idea, as long as the flavors don't clash too much 07:51:36 or just a vault elsewhere in Lair 07:51:45 Erica, Gastronok, Maud... although I can't remember ever seeing Maud in the Lair 07:51:55 so you might find a snake nest, if you have spider(insect!), or a spider nest if you get snake 07:52:13 on the edge of a level or something 07:52:20 03MarvinPA * raa52e7af1abe 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Make wearing/removing armour interruptible, without keeping progress 07:52:34 maud, harold, rupert 07:55:55 I like the idea of exclusive vaults having sort of similar gameplay ramifications (like getting one of two poisonous vaults, one of two watery vaults, etc.) 07:56:13 wtf: 07:56:15 !lm * type=uniq br=Lair s=uniq cv=0.10-a 07:56:15 3329 milestones for * (type=uniq br=Lair cv=0.10-a): 629x Erica, 583x Harold, 572x Jozef, 504x Gastronok, 353x Rupert, 336x Maud, 175x Joseph, 126x Prince Ribbit, 7x Kirke, 5x Polyphemus, 5x Grum, 4x Menkaure, 3x Saint Roka, 3x Wiglaf, 2x Sonja, 2x Edmund, 2x Murray, 2x Josephine, 2x Aizul, 2x Mara, 2x Nikola, Urug, Snorg, Donald, the helpless Jozef, Azrael, Frances, Eustachio, Nessos, Nergalle, D... 07:56:28 (... Dispater) 07:56:57 Lair:8 hell portal fun I'd assume 07:57:42 or Menkaure, it'd be strange to lead him that far 07:58:18 !lm * type=uniq br=Lair uniq=Menkaure s=place cv=0.10-a 07:58:18 4 milestones for * (type=uniq br=Lair uniq=Menkaure cv=0.10-a): 4x Volcano 07:58:24 beh, the level_type bug 08:07:20 any idea how to get a bot to go past "Really levitate into that cloud of steam?"? 08:08:27 there appears to be no setting or a lua call to avoid the warning in the first place, so if there's something, it answers the question somehow 08:11:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:11 oh heh, this newest commit makes my Abyss testing bot unable to gear itself :p 08:40:53 worse: it makes it impossible to change gear with anything around 08:41:08 pretty bad for, say, cloaks of poison resistance or boots of lev 08:43:44 MarvinPA: what about not aborting if there's no more than a couple of actions left? 08:44:30 what about asking whether to abort? 08:46:13 kilobyte's solution also sounds very reasonable, still allows swapping aux armor, but not body armor 08:50:56 hrm, tried adding a question, seems to be really annoying since it keeps repeating itself 09:04:23 Ornate decks of cards no longer look Ornate (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5302) by XuaXua 09:10:56 just asking once could work 09:11:18 continue putting on your armor (takes x turns) 09:11:35 but your solution seems cleaner 09:12:59 it wouldn't be possible to wear armour, though 09:14:38 Summoned Shadow Creature "Jelly" does not consume floor items (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5303) by XuaXua 09:17:09 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:32 uh oh, valgrind doesn't say nice things 09:17:35 ==3518== More than 10000000 total errors detected. I'm not reporting any more. 09:17:38 ==3518== Final error counts will be inaccurate. Go fix your program! 09:17:41 ==3518== Rerun with --error-limit=no to disable this cutoff. Note 09:17:43 ==3518== that errors may occur in your program without prior warning from 09:17:46 ==3518== Valgrind, because errors are no longer being displayed. 09:17:47 that's after ~300 turns of the Abyss bot 09:17:53 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:18:43 that does not sound good 09:18:44 some memory leaks, too 09:23:41 that's after just 300 turns? Ouch 09:32:23 errors = non-deterministic behaviour? or worse stuff? 09:33:04 mostly uninitialized; there's an invalid read that somehow doesn't cause a segfault 09:35:01 we've seen those Abyss crashes 09:35:35 got to go though, pushing the bot if anyone wants to take a look (I don't know Abyss code either) 09:38:27 03kilobyte * r9ac7a515adf2 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Make it possible to change armour with any distractions. 09:38:28 03kilobyte * rc1f59d299b48 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Make an especially spammy message #ifdef DEBUG_ABYSS 09:38:28 03kilobyte * r97b9654031f9 10/crawl-ref/source/test/stress/abyss.rc: A bot to stress-test Abyss code and player-vs-monsters attacks. 09:38:29 03kilobyte * r4c56d274400f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/bazaar.des: Make bazaar_jpeg_triangle_bulge a regular map again. 09:39:09 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:13 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:48 -!- metasyntactic is now known as kunwon1 10:14:45 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:45 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:18 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:29:19 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:12 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:41 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 11:48:32 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:38 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:10 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:23 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:47 -!- SamB_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:05 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:00 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:40 !tell MarvinPA looks like there's finally a patch for the vehumet gifting revamp (check mantis) 12:46:41 evilmike_: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 12:46:51 ooh 12:47:16 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:47:23 it's just a start, but it looks promising 12:47:33 yeah 13:00:33 did someone actually look at the constriction escape formula? 13:00:41 because it really does seem pretty silly 13:03:15 hm, on the other hand, i was a spriggan with 10 str 13:03:35 and really should have known better 13:04:06 some constriction formulas got changed a while back but I think the one for escape was untouched. It's not good, but after it was made possible to escape via blinkign it became a less extreme problem 13:04:27 I still think it should be better, but I'm not good at coming up with formulas for stuff 13:06:16 galehar: around? i remember you brainstorming about this on the tavern? 13:06:35 I recall eronarn coming up with something, but I cant find the pastebin thing (seems to have expired) 13:06:43 hm 13:07:30 something like x_chance_in_y(n*x(str),y(size1, size2)), with n being the number of attempts would probably be good 13:09:04 actually, make that x_chance_in_y(a+n*(b+x(str)),c+y(size1, size2)), with x and y linear functions 13:12:04 what are the size values? 13:12:15 ??size 13:12:17 size factor[1/1]: For evasion purposes: spider form and bat form are tiny (factor 6), spriggans are little (factor 4), halflings and kobolds are small (factor 2), trolls ogres centaurs and nagas are large (factor -2), and dragonform is huge (factor -8). 13:12:47 hm, those arent the numbers i need -.- 13:14:16 at this point it's probably a 0.11 thing anyway, unless someone feels this is very urgent 13:14:36 its kind of silly that you can never escape on the first try 13:14:36 anyway I think there's a table of numbers somewhere on the dev wiki, I'd help you look but I have to go now for a few hours. good luck 13:14:44 yeah I dont like that aspect either 13:19:17 mhh, forgot about HD, that should probably be included 13:20:50 @??naga 13:20:51 naga (03N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 17 | Flags: see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 108 | Sp: poison splash (d10). 13:20:55 @??greater naga 13:20:55 greater naga (13N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 61-102 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1678 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, teleport self. 13:20:59 @??tentacled monstrosity 13:20:59 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Speed: 9 | HD: 25 | Health: 111-164 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 22, 17, 13 | Flags: 05demonic, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(166), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2126. 13:24:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:27 @??ball python 13:28:28 unknown monster: "ball python" 13:28:28 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:28:33 ball python (03S) | Speed: 12 (swim: 60%) | HD: 1 | Health: 2-5 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 2, 303(constrict)(crush) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(1), 12drown | XP: 1. 13:28:33 %??ball python 13:37:17 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:27 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:55 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:12 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:03 added an escape formula suggestion to the constriction page 14:34:50 also, imo constriction should act as 50% chance of silence for proper spells (invocations and scrolls unaffected), to diss casters 14:35:26 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:03 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:42 a 50% chance of silence seems like it would be really hard to do right 15:18:50 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:06 it's bad to cast and have nothing happen without a prompt because you didn't notice, but also a prompt every time is irritating 15:20:46 alefury: the formula is a bit hard to grasp, but the numbers from the spreadsheet seems ok. 15:21:48 tentacled monstrosity are really deadly to mage and spriggans, but since they can keep their distance easily, it's probably ok 15:22:59 mhh, also blink lets you currently escape, 100% 15:23:13 -!- bhaak is now known as BronyPot 15:23:17 so at that point mages are pretty much immune to constriction anyway :( 15:23:33 alefury: antimagic aura 15:23:35 blocktopus 15:23:39 cancels out all the magic in an area 15:23:54 isnt that basically silence? 15:23:56 alefury: also, thanks for looking into it 15:24:02 -!- BronyPot is now known as bhaak 15:24:45 alefury: depends on the effect 15:25:03 i like the idea of something that doesn't have the drastic effects of silence but is still antimagic 15:25:16 like we've talked for a long while about having a -tele monster 15:25:58 what about: 'astral chainer', which is -tele if it's on screen, constrict, phase shift? 15:26:01 something like that 15:31:07 anaconda (15S) | Speed: 18 | HD: 11 | Health: 43-76 | AC/EV: 4/16 | Damage: 3003(constrict)(crush), 20 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(44), 12drown | XP: 1452. 15:31:07 %??anaconda 15:32:26 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 15:32:29 how about making tentacled monstrosities speed 11 but reducing HD to 20? 15:32:44 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Speed: 9 | HD: 25 | Health: 109-164 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 22, 17, 13, 3003(constrict)(crush) | Flags: 05demonic, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(166), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2138. 15:32:44 %??tentacled monstrosity 15:32:51 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:04 alefury: move 8, attack 10, paralysis gaze :D 15:34:49 i should just go ahead and do my random monstrosity thing 15:36:55 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:39 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:39 -!- neunon has quit [Changing host] 15:56:39 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:33 03galehar * rc564c5b35f52 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Prompt only once for changed armour interruption. 16:19:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:07 btw, that question mark bug should probably be fixed for 0.10 16:40:30 i tried a scroll (probably rc), and now all my potions have little ? on their tiles 16:43:51 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:01:36 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:57 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:11:09 alefury: yeah that seems like something that should be fixed 17:11:42 this is something that cropped up sometime during 0.10, so figuring out when that happened would be useful 17:17:32 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:20:13 there are two bug reports about it 17:22:21 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:29 !seen edlothiol 17:26:29 I last saw edlothiol at Fri Feb 10 10:08:57 2012 UTC (13h 17m 32s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 245 seconds. 17:36:45 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:36 -!- evilmike_ is now known as evilmike 17:54:23 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: greatzebu] 18:05:28 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:09:33 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:34 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:24:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:43 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:45:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:43 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:31 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:29:50 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:37 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 19:42:59 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:02 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:10 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:12:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:30 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/abyss.cc#line994 20:28:53 ...I can't designate a space of abyss vault to be said "dungeon_feature_type _abyss_grid", can I 20:40:22 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51:11 that's... not how that works :P 20:51:18 boo 20:51:36 at any rate I am desperately scrabbling together some vault edits 20:52:29 since the abyss shifting in shifts broke hangedman_abyss_rune_flesh_and_stone horribly and having just played swamp_vile it desperately needs more shallow water pathways for the monsters in it 20:52:38 if you want a list of dungeon features, it's in terrain.cc starting at line 1688 20:53:35 was hoping I could somehow use specific abyss shifting designations to help with the attempt to have it be a potential blockade for that vault's locking-in sort of deal 20:54:23 what's wrong with the way it works now 20:54:51 jeanjacques had it, five tiles of empty abyss space with current abyss shifting made him wait for a long while before he decided to teleport 20:56:04 is that a bug? 20:56:23 not really a bug, more like an awkward result of the way the vault's using what it has 20:56:28 I only barely understand what you're talking about btw 20:56:32 "abyss shifting in shifts" 20:56:47 it's the new new abyss behaviour 20:57:19 where the abyss shifts a 1/5 of what it used to do for 100 to 300 turns and then for a third of that period shifts like 3 times as much as it used to 20:57:24 ah 20:59:58 at any rate, from a bit of experimentation, just replacing the "14 +" (actual spaces) with "14.... +" probably would help a lot with waiting 21:00:27 although avoiding the waiting entirely while still keeping said feature would have to rely on some weird teleport trap placement 21:00:42 ...so, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you go make that minor edit? 21:01:47 in what 21:01:56 hangedman_abyss_rune_flesh_and_stone 21:02:09 oh, it's sideways 21:02:24 it was the fastest way to explain it 21:02:37 or at least a way where I wouldn't have to trip over my words as much 21:03:25 is the intent to require the player to wait a bit, or just to make the corridor more abyss-y 21:04:31 both, alongside the small chance of having the abyss shift lock a player in the corridor with the monsters 21:04:38 I see 21:09:23 03evilmike * rc2aba92c94e0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des: Tweak hangedman_abyss_rune_flesh_and_stone. 21:10:29 danke 21:15:04 I've also got a version of swamp_vile with shallow water connecting most of the vault together, which deals with abuse and annoyance with flightlessness for monsters and players, I could pastebin it 21:21:21 health bar moves ahead of character (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5304) by simon1tan 21:26:30 wait, shallow water doesn't already connect all the parts? It looks to me like it guarantees a path between all the areas with monsters, although it's slightly hard to read 21:26:36 but if you feel like improving it go ahead 21:33:05 well the problem is that the pathfinding is weak enough that in a cursory play throwing fireballs at monsters across deep water is enough to deal with everything land-bound 21:48:50 http://pastebin.com/MrJDpXgY 21:52:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:23 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 22:00:50 03evilmike * r706c43747695 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/swamp.des: Less deep water in swamp_vile. (HangedMan) 22:27:34 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:25 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:59 what specific bit of syntax do I need to define in a vault a rod of destruction [ice]? 23:05:48 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:31 it looks like you can't 23:12:36 pah 23:13:25 my poor ice cave loot 23:24:25 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:19 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:33:51 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev