00:00:56 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3204-g16a4524 (32) 00:03:02 just (quickly) checked, that looks about right 00:03:55 is that what the range should be? added to a normal attack... 00:04:16 I don't have as much feel for how hard things *should* be ;) 00:04:24 given how fast stuff dies when you're playing a naga, my suspicion is that it's adding up over time is less of a factor than just the initial damage being gigantic 00:05:13 crawl doesn't give you damage numbers when playing though, and playing with fulldebug isn't exactly possible, so I go by how things "feel" in a normal game 00:08:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3204-g16a4524 00:10:36 so to answer that, I really don't know what they should be. The proposed formulas look reasonable, though. 00:33:34 evilmike: I'm not necessarily opposed to the failure rate display change, but was there any discussion of it? (I've been gone the last several days) 00:34:33 my first reaction to seeing it in a game is that it makes it a lot harder to process quickly which spells are "safe" to use, either on the spell list or the memorization list 00:35:45 elliptic: was first brought up in this channel, then dtsund wrote a patch for it, then was discussed about on mantis with a little talk here but not a whole lot. Never heard anyone oppose it. Most of the original talk was about fractions (which is what I tried originally) 00:35:48 (this is just because the "Failure" column now contains a lot more distinct things) 00:35:55 the fractions version is an awful mix of adjectives and large numbers though 00:36:22 and yeah, there's more information now... my thought is that colouring the numbers could be a good thing 00:37:23 giving this much precision seems rather alien to crawl 00:37:50 I wouldn't mind rounding to the nearest 5 or something 00:37:53 colors might help, yes 00:39:31 there was also an idea I had in the past, of actually trying to assess the miscast severity 00:39:49 and using color or asterisks or something to warn people for "dangerous" spells 00:40:45 like, using a L7 spell at 10% failure is pretty risky, whereas using a L3 spell at 10% is quite safe 00:42:25 evilmike: have you played angband, by the way? 00:42:50 displaying percentage failure rates for spells reminds me a lot of angband 00:43:01 Several years ago I played zangband a bit, I can't remember which version except that it was before they changed the overworld 00:43:08 nethack uses failure percentages too 00:43:58 right, I forget how that worked because I had little patience for nethack spellcasting and mainly played noncasters 00:44:55 but in angband it works decently because most of your spells will have the same failure rate, since failure rate is capped based on your intelligence... so most of your spells will have 3% failure rate, say 00:47:32 that's a good point. similar argument applies to nethack (also, much fewer spells) 00:47:59 if the screen in crawl is too dense right now, I'd round to the nearest 5% (or up to 1% if it's below 1%, which is quite likely) 00:49:04 this is the most it's been discussed since the patch went in. It's worth noting, the original version discussed here (using fractions) was much more precise, going up to 1/1000 00:51:30 in the last spell failure rate display discussion of any length I was present for (a couple of months ago), people were mainly talking about tweaking the intervals for the adjectives 00:52:30 I think both dpeg and MarvinPA liked the idea of having a cutoff point at 97% or 98% in addition to 95% 00:53:26 personally I'm not sure I've ever cared about the exact failure rate for a spell at excellent, though 00:53:32 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:54:14 rounding to the nearest 5% could be reasonable, though I worry about it being a bit misleading 00:54:29 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:59:20 I think I remember that discussion about adjectives. The recent one (which I think was just before logging came back up) started with a proposal for success rate percentages. I remember it turning to failure rates instead (I was in support of showing failure), and someone else (maybe dpeg) brought up fractions. He struck me as cautiously supportive of the idea, at least enough for dtsund to be encouraged to submit a patch 00:59:42 which he based off of the system used in crawl light (although apparently it guarantees success if you're above 98%) 01:00:07 I don't much like fractions either, fwiw 01:00:57 And then the patch just kind of sat on mantis for a while, and I decided to play with it since no one was really talking about it or doing anything. Better than just letting it rot. The one in trunk right now is the 5th one I tried 01:01:13 dpeg probably would've given feedback but he left, unfortunately 01:01:20 yes :( 01:01:37 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:49 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:07:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:03 anyway if the screen is too dense, going by 5% increments is what I'd try, with an exception made for 1% (rounded though, not merely using integer division). I suspect that would help, but still be better than adjectives 01:09:50 maybe it's worth putting this as a question to c-r-d or something. My impression right now is that the dev reaction is a collective shrug. Players seem universally positive on this though 01:14:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:43 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:53:09 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:15:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:54:02 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:37 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:03:34 -!- rawrmage_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:10 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:31 -!- iasov__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:42 -!- iasov_ has quit [*.net *.split] 04:07:42 -!- rawrmage has quit [*.net *.split] 04:07:43 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 04:07:43 -!- CIA-56 has quit [*.net *.split] 04:07:44 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 04:07:57 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:21 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:35 -!- CIA-135 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:42 elliptic: great to seek you back on (but are you sleeping at the moment?). If not, could you take a glance at the proposed constriction formulas? 05:16:01 (same to MarvinPA and the rest of you, obviously) 05:16:21 it's high time to finally branch 0.10 05:23:24 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:38 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:34 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 06:23:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 06:23:24 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:51 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:21 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:25:00 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 06:50:07 New serial vaults with ice theme (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5229) by dk 07:00:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:42 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:16 I want a SEIRAL KILLER vault. 07:06:29 serial killer bee? 07:06:35 yes, that too 07:08:54 bee castle! 07:11:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:20 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:48 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 08:06:06 kilobyte: was asleep, can take a look at constriction formulas sometime soonish if you can point me in the direction of a discussion or something (I can't find anything) 08:13:11 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:50 06:52 <+evilmike> two formulas I've seen proposed so far. galehar's is ((27+2*XL)/81)*(2d(str/2)/2 + 1d(duration +1)). Eronarn suggested ((27+2*XL)/81)*(2d(str/5) + duration)) 08:37:30 mostly IRC scrollback, there was a bit of discussion on the tavern as well 08:39:56 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40:10 oh, I saw that but was hoping that there was something more complete somewhere... what is str for monsters? are people happy with the success formula now and just working on the damage formula? (the original success formula was bad, but it might already have been changed...) 08:41:46 monsters don't have str 08:42:57 anaconda would be xl11 str15 [...] 08:43:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:33 I'm somewhat reluctant to put in an untested formula, it might be better to take so lame option like a fixed fraction of the current one 08:47:10 current formula looks like (str - 1d3)/3 + 1d(duration + 1) ? 08:48:00 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:28 damage by time seems to be: (level+1)/2 + d(dur_has_constricted/10+1) - d(AC/2+1), scaled by time 08:51:38 Croases (L15 TrWn) ASSERT(mons->damage_friendly <= 2 * mons->damage_total) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 755 failed. (D:16) 08:52:25 for placers, replace (level+1)/2 by (str-d3)/3 08:52:52 yeah 08:53:29 i experience a minor display bug with an 80x24 terminal, related to word-wrapping long lines in item-listing. the bug is triggered by the robe of Misfortune, it is displayed like this in any item-list: 08:53:32 u - the cursed -5 robe of Misfortune (worn) {-CAST MUT+ *TELE EV-4 Str-2 Dex-2 08:53:34 h - a +1 robeCurse} 08:53:48 the "Curse}" part belongs to "u" 08:54:39 grabbing does the same damage as if you had been constricting during that turn (so quick weapons are worse) 08:55:08 kilobyte: I don't much like the XL dependence in the suggested formulas, it is inconsistent with how other auxes work 08:58:39 I'd say just adjust the existing formula, maybe by subtracting a constant 08:59:08 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:21 I'm also not sure whether it makes sense to boost nagas at all... they used to be good in the late game even before constriction 09:13:35 if constriction doesn't scale with XL, I think it won't be a very large boost late game... which is good 09:13:53 octopodes don't need a late game boost either, after all... 09:14:31 most strong nagas I've seen late game haven't been doing much melee 09:16:31 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:37 I played a heavy-armour NaDK a few days ago. It felt like a cheat mode. 27 str though, pure non-caster. Then got a shuffle and splatted in Pan (pure stupidity on my part, though). 09:25:48 and if a player as bad as me gets the feeling that something is a cheat mode, it pretty surely is :p 09:26:09 constriction on nagas does worry me a little too, yeah 09:26:13 constriction or yred or? 09:26:15 at 27 strength, constriction damage is 8 + 1d(dur+1)... which does sound good 09:26:23 they're one of the strongest late races, and if constriction makes their early game really easy... 09:26:26 but we are talking about reducing that 09:26:59 kilobyte, MarvinPA: do you know whether the success rate formula for constriction has changed at all? 09:27:21 my initial reaction to constriction was that it succeeded far, far too often 09:27:29 but that was a few weeks ago 09:27:49 i don't think that's changed 09:27:52 not certain, i'll have a look 09:28:25 especially early game, when so much is small 09:28:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:11 about damage, I'd just reduce the current damage by 2 or something like that 09:29:32 for 0.10? 09:29:39 i think the changes since implemenetation so far have just been lots of bug/crash fixes, making it scale with time taken, and the tloc stuff 09:29:43 but it isn't good if constriction is nearly autohit, and that's what I remember... 09:29:49 then we have half a year to fine tune any fancy formulas 09:30:04 Napkin: yeah, lots of bug fixes, no balancing 09:30:12 er, MarvinPA 09:31:23 Napkin: in case you got beeped: would you like to switch CDO to 0.10 like we usually do? 09:31:33 when it gets branched 09:32:23 I just started a NaGl (str 17), and the first 10 constriction attempts were all successful 09:32:28 this is bad 09:33:39 attackdice = roll_dice(3, you.strength() * (asize + 1)); 09:33:39 defenddice = roll_dice(1, 3 * m_ev * (dsize + 1)); 09:33:44 looks like that's the to-hit comparison 09:34:08 m_ev is evasion 09:34:13 at the very least we could change attackdice to use only one die 09:36:19 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:00 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:14 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:11 03elliptic * r03354743c2f3 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Fix minor errors in the spell failure rate calculation. 09:43:42 elliptic / MarvinPA: we should change it to use an actual attack roll 09:43:59 the current formula ignores haloes, acc items, etc. 09:44:09 eronarn: that would be good, yes 09:44:27 once we do that, it'll immediately make constriction a lot less good against early game stuff (since hitting tends to be a problem) 09:44:55 this is a rough sketch of the direction i was looking to go in, btw: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3551 09:45:02 oh wait wrong link 09:45:08 once you hit once, you're set though 09:45:48 http://pastebin.com/Hg9uVNp2 i meant this 09:46:01 kilobyte: it should have a success check too, but only after a hit check 09:46:22 (also, it'd mean shields are actually useful against constriction, which imo is good) 09:46:33 you disregard the monster you're already constricting, as it will be dead in two rounds anyway; with regular weapons that'd take far longer 09:47:08 yeah the damage is too high right now for sure 09:47:17 for octopodes in practice this means constantly 'x'ing to monsters to check if they're tagged already 09:47:21 kilobyte: I think we should both lower damage (I suggest a simple -2, but other possibilities are fine too) and reduce the chance of constriction to something reasonable 09:47:57 I'd start with /2 and look lower 09:48:25 I like -2 better than /2 because it keeps strength more important 09:49:33 I mean, to the whole formula 09:50:14 an additive nerf on the top of that is fine too :p 09:50:24 for accuracy, ideally I think it would be best to use calc_your_to_hit_unarmed() and player_aux_test_hit() and just figure out how to insert size/strength in there somewhere 09:51:30 kilobyte: I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but I think that reducing the chance of beginning constriction from 99% to something more reasonable will help a lot too :P 09:52:46 elliptic: i say make it two different checks. for example, this also means we can have constriction not be just an additional attack, but could have something like tentacled monstrosities getting multiple normal tentacle attacks, which get constriction attempts 09:53:59 eronarn: too complicated for 0.10 09:54:34 D&D has this rule: all(?) grabbing/constricting monsters have two attacks, you start constriction if you hit with both 09:55:32 (IIRC, I may be wrong, I'm not a D&D player) 09:56:08 kilobyte: no, that's something very different 09:56:41 i mean, some monsters do that, but not all. and some just get an extra attack,not a grapple 09:56:56 others grapple automatically on any successful hit 09:57:22 not that the D&D grapple rules are something to be emulated 09:59:35 3 formulas (to constrict, damage, escape) do all 3 need to change? 10:01:15 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:10 I just learned that vehumet's MP cost reduction makes miscast effects less powerful 10:04:39 any objections to changing this? it seems like vehumet should like miscast explosions, not make them weaker :P 10:05:52 Xom approves 10:08:00 he shouldn't reduce them, for sure 10:08:06 blueDave: yes, but for different reasons each 10:08:12 (also vehumet already has one ability that directly helps with miscasts) 10:09:14 kilobyte: arg 10:09:18 btw, whatever formula used, i feel like escape attempts should be handled as if you were gaining strength. so still making normal checks 10:09:22 beep me again tomorrow? about to head home :D 10:09:43 Napkin: sure, didn't mean to beep you at all 10:09:53 also, no branching yet 10:10:01 ah, ok 10:10:03 there don't need to be two formulas that use different variables 10:12:17 03elliptic * ra77a15b234c9 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc: Stop Vehumet's MP cost reduction from weakening miscasts. 10:12:40 elliptic: wanna make naga spit respect breath status while you're at it? :) 10:13:13 you mean monster nagas? 10:13:36 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:15:14 yeah 10:15:38 also, with the way the breath status currently works, it expires at the start of their turn, which means they can breathe even if the last time you lookd at them they were catching their breath 10:16:10 that sounds fine to me 10:16:36 if monster nagas aren't using breath status then they probably should (and maybe strengthen their spit), but I'm not doing it right now 10:16:37 i feel like they should have at least one turn where you can respond to them getting their breath back 10:17:02 sigh, i guess i can go file it :( 10:17:06 didn't feel like opening a mantis tab 10:17:35 I'm busy carefully reading miscast formulas, sorry :P 10:17:36 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:38 can nagas spit and constrict at the same time? 10:24:42 also, *should* they? 10:28:44 you can do just anything when constricting 10:28:49 yeah, seems wrong 10:29:17 also, being constricted means you can't move and take damage, but there are no other effects 10:30:58 I guess it might be good to strongly hamper other actions when you're intimate with someone, both as the hugger or huggee. Minus acc, half damage, -cast chance, -2 spell enhancement, etc. 10:32:10 kilobyte: constriction shouldn't be negative as the hugger though 10:32:14 because players can't control it 10:33:05 hmm, perhaps, yeah 10:33:09 or at least the negatives should be clearly less important than the positives... but stuff like spell penalties seem bad 10:33:21 right 10:33:35 Well, maybe make spitting stop constriction 10:34:36 I'm thinking about a lame damage reduction and something about grab chance in 0.10, and other goodies in trunk 10:35:06 also, what with non-breathing enemies? It looks strange that constriction can damage them at all. 10:35:44 (Wikipedia says that contrary to a popular misconception, no RL constrictor has enough strength for any chance to break bones) 10:36:18 arguably a tentacled monstrosity is not a RL constrictor ;) 10:36:19 constriction 1. blocks lung action, 2. rapidly increases blood pressure 10:36:38 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:40 yeah, this one can be argued this way 10:37:33 I'm thinking about having rConstr: +1 for having no lungs, +1 for no blood, automatic 3 for jellies/ghostlies 10:38:58 also current formulas have EV resist the to-attack, and AC resist the damage 10:39:07 kilobyte: this has been talked about before, having a 'physiology' resist for stuff like needles 10:39:23 * SamB_ wishes for the TeX sources of the C++11 draft 10:39:46 we may want to decide action penalties for being constricted, too... If it halves melee damage/etc, it'd be fine for constricting zombies to do nothing other than immobilizing them. 10:40:53 kilobyte: it was talked to have two kinds or levels of constriction 10:41:08 * SamB_ has an itch to play with the indexes and outlines a bit ... 10:41:19 i think we could do something like: first level as current, second level as a net (maybe tweak what you can/can't do inside a net, but it makes sense to have similar effects) 10:41:23 SamB_: about gcc-4.6-doc in Debian: you really gave me hope but then I noticed it's only a RFP not ITP :p 10:41:26 and then be very judicious with what can do the second level 10:41:35 SamB_: still, mighty thanks for reminding people about this 10:42:00 say: tentacled monstrosities and octos have a chance to hit the second level 10:42:05 kilobyte: you're quite welcome 10:42:07 nagas never do 10:42:10 you think I should try packaging it? 10:44:53 since it's docs only, it's possible it's not that hard... no idea, though 10:45:13 really got to go, though 10:53:21 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:00:19 -!- rawrmage_ is now known as rawrmage 11:00:25 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 11:00:25 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:18 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 11:03:26 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:05 napkin: bam: http://83.81.138.23/limesurvey/index.php?sid=99834&newtest=Y&lang=en 11:12:35 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:11 * SamB_ wonders why gcc tarballs are not offered in .tar.xz form yet, only .tar.gz and .tar.bz2 11:26:44 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:04 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:32:36 -!- iasov__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:37:06 well, they have to be repacked to cut out everything but the documentation anyway 11:37:24 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:13 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:38 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:45:06 -!- iasov__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:13 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:33 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:20:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:31 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:22 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:31:45 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:54 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:11 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:56:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:10:11 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:22 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:17 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:16 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:40 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:17 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:02 -!- alefury has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:02 -!- greensna1k has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:04 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:08 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:09 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:35 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:52 hm, git(orious) doesn't seem to like me right now 14:06:24 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:54 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:05 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:38 is it doing that thing where it rejects your ssh key? 14:29:52 I get that sometimes, I find if I reupload the exact same key it magically starts working again. 14:37:24 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:46 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:48:38 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:27 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:09 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:20 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 15:24:28 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:14 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:18 Do saves get butchered by changing version s 15:35:27 sometimes they do 15:35:54 and when they do, it is at that critical moment you decide to never transfer your save again 15:38:15 How long have gnoll castles existed 15:39:23 that vault was added years ago 15:39:23 I know it's old. But just how old? Is it from before 0.6.0? 15:39:23 like 3-4 if i had to estimate 15:39:29 yes 15:39:44 Did original crawl have vaults 15:39:48 no 15:39:56 Did it have something LIKE vaults? 15:40:05 like what? =P 15:40:15 Special things that spawn together 15:40:25 well it had branch ends and so forth 15:40:33 What is the most notable thing that's been around since the original 15:40:33 those are technically vaults 15:40:43 killer klowns 15:40:44 Red_Bucket: some of the weird monsters 15:40:46 pizza slices 15:40:49 curse toes I think 15:40:52 death cobs 15:40:55 that is so subjective 15:41:02 yeah 15:41:14 weren't the skills in ancientcrawl very different or something 15:41:16 I forget 15:41:25 mostly they were the same as skills in 0.8 15:41:30 there were some minor differences 15:41:43 oh 15:41:53 transmutations used to be tmut, there used to be a ranged combat skill, etc. 15:41:56 Do we need another type of dwarf to replace MD 15:41:58 throwing was darts 15:42:11 I don't get how blowguns are throwing 15:42:14 nobody does 15:42:14 uh i mean transmutations used to be transmigrations 15:42:18 i am losing my mind 15:42:19 it makes no sense that blowguns are throwing, but slings aren't 15:42:21 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:27 "transmigrations" is such a bullshit name for that school 15:42:29 it's because throwing used to be darts and blowguns shoot darts 15:42:34 oh 15:42:40 and no one thought of this when they changed the name =P 15:42:41 Wasn't throwing the fighting/spellcasting equivelent of range combat? 15:43:00 for a while it did some weird things for all of the ranged weapons 15:43:06 but of course no one knew what that was 15:45:26 as if you'd now know which things to weird things for ranged weapons, really :P 15:45:51 Ranged weapons aren't bad, they're just bad to start with 15:46:21 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:46:27 chrisoelmueller, luckily, elliptic posted a ridiculously complicated formula for us in learndb 15:46:41 haha yes i actually think this made it worse :) 15:47:04 i liked all of the variables 15:47:10 now everybody is afraid to learn it because "OMG seen this formula!!" 15:47:11 there was like an L, and a Q, maybe a W 15:47:27 many parentheses... this is what i remember of it 15:47:45 Does the game have a way of taking a number, then generating a randart worth that much 15:48:15 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:24 where are those formulas in the learndb 15:48:39 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:48:42 here as well 15:48:44 ??launcher damage 15:48:44 launcher damage[1/2]: Average damage = (B/2 + L/8 + A/16 + min((str - 10)*(2B+A)*C, (L+1)/4))*(1+skill/D)*(brand multiplier) + slaying/4 + A/2 + {L/2 if using xbow}. Here A is the ammo enchantment, L is the launcher enchantment, and B, C, and D are constants depending on what type of launcher you are using (see [2]). 15:49:16 excellent 15:51:56 Don't you mean 80%? 15:52:20 OR whatever percent excellent was before it just got replaced with percent 15:52:46 excellent was 95% 15:56:00 what was replaced with percent? 15:56:05 spell success? 15:56:54 Everything success 15:56:59 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 15:57:55 oh 15:58:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:13 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:07 is gitorious rejecting other people's keys also? 16:53:04 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:56 just pulled successfully. I've had that problem before though. Reuploading my key fixes it somehow (don't need to generate a new one) 16:57:26 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:16 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:09 gitorious has moments like that 17:05:56 evilmike: thanks, that worked 17:08:26 03elliptic * rbcbd6ec1f116 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-book.cc spl-cast.cc spl-cast.h): Colour failure rates based on how likely the spell is to cause a dangerous miscast effect. 17:08:38 nice 17:12:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:01 I like Eronarn's proposal for constriction damage. Similar to my proposal but simpler. 17:22:47 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:25 I'm pretty sure I just had a wasted ds mutation. I remember getting 4 hoof mutations. Possibly due to already having a natural hoof mutation when I got one of them. I'll be able to tell for sure once i hit xl27. 17:26:18 03galehar * r1e4010dd04e1 10/crawl-ref/source/exclude.cc: When placing an exclusion on a unique, don't duplicate the annotation. 17:26:19 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:53 -!- Xiberia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:50 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:33 is it possible to add an unofficial server to NetTiles? 17:33:20 you mean webtiles? 17:33:23 nettiles is kind of old 17:33:26 no I mean nettiles 17:33:35 yeah Iknow 17:34:14 no idea if anyone even knows how that works 17:34:15 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:50 -nod- any idea who wrote it? 17:35:15 nope :( i only just started playing crawl then 17:35:25 ok thank you 17:35:54 google should know who wrote it, though 17:36:02 I don't even understand what nettiles server means 17:36:27 are you *positive* you don't mean webtiles server? 17:36:27 wiki says "It was created by Luca Barbieri." 17:36:38 nettiles is like.. around 0.7. It took output from console and tried to interpret it into tiles 17:36:46 it sort of worked but not really 17:37:26 evilmike: yes, and what would a nettiles server mean? as I understand it just connected to cdo or cao as normal 17:37:39 pretty meaningless, yeah 17:38:58 yes correct, but the client only supported CDO and CAO I was just curious if there was a file that could be altered to change that, course I didn't have any luck finding the settings to increase my width to 80 from 78 so it might be pointless anyway, but I'm curious 17:40:00 What technical problems would arise from having a mode where there is more than one player character that you control simultaneously. 17:40:25 -!- Red_Bucket has left ##crawl-dev 17:40:32 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:37 Shit, accidentally closed it 17:41:14 no one answered, but the big one that I'd see is there would need to be a completely different method of controlling things, because if you played one character, the other would loose a turn 17:41:18 lose too 17:42:35 Just queue actions to be done simultaneously. 17:44:58 just about all of crawl is coded to work with exactly one player character 17:45:05 yeah but well like I said totally different mechanics 17:45:12 there is simply no infrastructure for another 17:45:33 one could play RNG 17:45:55 http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/2000/300/2318/2318.strip.gif 17:46:09 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:48 you could run two processes of crawl at once 17:47:54 multirobin 17:47:59 with multiple crawl games 17:48:02 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:00 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:08 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:50:08 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 17:55:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:10:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:14:06 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:05 Is there a xom altar variant that spawns with an amulet of inaccuracy, or was that just a big coincidence. 18:23:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:16 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:42 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:59 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:07 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:52:17 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:55 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 18:52:57 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:07 Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit) 18:53:07 You feel weaker. 18:53:07 You feel your mana capacity increase. 18:53:07 h - a staff of power (weapon) 18:53:07 _You stop training Shields. 18:53:07 (Is this a bug or a feature?) 18:53:39 Definitely a bug, since I can wield the Staff of P and my condensation shield stays up. 18:54:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:54:37 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 18:55:11 submit a bug report if it hasn't been reported 18:55:46 you should be allowed to train shields if you have condensation shield, since it has an effect (even if its not that good) 18:57:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:05 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:05:21 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:43 it feels weird to stop training shields if you take one off 19:11:46 since that doesn't happen with weapons at all 19:12:04 very easy to just wield something else for a while and train 19:14:28 unless it's cursed of course 19:20:07 I think training restrictions should be simplified/relaxed in 0.11, but I've been convinced to let people try them as they are in 0.10 19:22:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:26 I'm with elliptic but this is clearly a bug (the thing where wielding a staff of power stops me from using my condensation shield rod to train shields.) 19:27:28 ??bug 19:27:28 bug[1/3]: To report bugs, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 19:30:02 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:30:25 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:31:02 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:07 Wielding a staff of power prevents training shields via a rod of warding (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5230) by DrPraetor 19:34:22 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:49 daeva should probably be able to move through blessed fire 19:39:41 it makes sense if they would ignore it, although the idea behind the ring of holy fire is so those enemies can hit you with ranged stuff 19:41:10 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:40 jeanjacques: by the way, you can stop phoenixes from coming back if you dispose of the corpse :P 19:42:51 too much effort 19:42:53 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:59 make them more dangerous than a bat 19:43:07 holy bat 19:43:22 I'm surprised they don't have any flaminess 19:43:41 they actually are capable of modest damage, but that tends to be on the low end in pan 19:43:52 they'd be more of a threat in D or Vault or some other branch like that 19:44:17 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:27 more holy vaults 19:44:28 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:44:31 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 19:44:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:37 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:44:51 evilmike, a look at some of my vaults? 19:45:29 I'll give feedback by looking at the file but won't test them in game yet, there are ones on mantis I want to get to 19:45:58 http://pastebin.com/mGhM7kUg 19:46:18 (no the third vault's name is not something I'm keeping) 19:46:46 how many wisps are in that first map? 19:46:50 it looks like a lot 19:47:31 12, the same as two wisp packs 19:48:31 that seems like too many, I suspect their main effect would just be to block other stuff and act as a nuisance (I've never liked wisps though) 19:48:52 could just use some plants for the encaging 19:48:59 what does conqueror worm refer to? Just curious 19:49:30 poe poem, the one already currently quoted for worms 19:50:09 on the second map, I'm not absolutely sure on this but I think the @ needs to be on the edge of the map. That's what the documentation says anyway. I haven't looked at the code for this 19:50:20 'k 19:50:55 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:57 third map with the super long name: does it have an entrance? 19:51:04 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:51:05 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 19:51:07 ...whoops 19:51:10 as in, a floor, door, or @ on the outside edge 19:51:29 putting in @s for the outside gap edge 19:53:10 fourth: same thing with @'s not being quite on the edge. I'm actually interested if this works now though, and I could be wrong. I'll have a look later/ask someone who knows more about this than I do 19:53:47 it didn't seem to run into too many problems when throwing it up in wizmode 19:56:20 &L isn't the same... pretty much everything works when you use that 19:56:51 was using chance:10000 19:58:34 the octopode one: I don't think it will count one of the W or w squares as an entrance, so mini_float won't do much 19:58:55 unless the documentation is wrong, mini_float works for floor on the edge of the level, not water 19:59:00 not very understanding of shoal vault placement oh 19:59:10 mischan: Incidentally, if you are constricting an invisible enemy, the game should not insult your intelligence by pretending you don't know where they are. 19:59:10 I just copied it from one of the other shoal vaults 19:59:25 actually, it could work with shallow water yeah 19:59:46 never mind then 20:00:21 well, that's all I can say from a quick look, I'm going to get something to eat now 20:00:26 thanks 20:00:36 will probably upload them to mantis in two days 20:00:42 if 0.10 hasn't branched by then 20:00:44 one last thing: as a convencience, could you sort them by category when you submit them? If they aren't already 20:01:18 I was just throwing them into the pastebin from a giant messy worksheet, they're be organized when I submit 20:01:21 like I just mean "these ones are for swamp.des, these are for mini-monsters.des" etc. I think you know this stuff well enough, and it makes things easier 20:01:33 got it 20:06:28 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:11 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:34 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:42 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 20:34:28 -!- ixtli has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:45 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:34 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:00 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:43:29 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43:53 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:30 -!- [1]capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:00:52 -!- [1]capablanca is now known as mikee_ 21:05:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:12 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:52 subtractor snake (10S) | Speed: 18 | HD: 18 | Health: 77-123 | AC/EV: 6/16 | Damage: 2514(subtractor) | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(72) | XP: 3037. 21:19:52 %??subtractor snake 21:24:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:43 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:50 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:39:01 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 21:42:09 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:56 hmm, autofight has a bit of trouble with glass ... 21:44:43 glass + reaching/ranged? 21:44:54 yes, reaching in this case 21:45:13 yeah, it would be good to fix that 21:45:43 fixing reaching is easy enough... I just haven't done it because it would be good to fix ranged also, and that's more work 21:46:25 I'm guessing we need more line-of-sight-related bindings? 21:46:37 basically it would be good if lua had access to whatever part of the code computes line of fire 21:46:55 or, yeah, line of fire 21:54:58 http://bogleech.com/bio-epomis.htm 22:21:16 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:57 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:28:14 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:13 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:50:24 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:57:38 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:19:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev