00:01:16 Can use wizard mode as a form of time travel without any consequences (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4931) by evilmike 00:02:16 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:15 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:03:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2263-gfa90262 (32) 00:11:11 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:15 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:18:59 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2263-gfa90262 00:34:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:39 -!- Guest33522 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:56 -!- Guest33522 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:41 -!- varsovie has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:01 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:45 -!- chukamok has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:16 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:07 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:28 -!- Vandal has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:19:40 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:37 -!- chukamok has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 01:37:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:24 <|amethyst> !tell Cryp71c Also, for the same reason I think: ASSERT(!(YOU_KILL(killer) && crawl_state.game_is_arena())) in 'mon-stuff.cc' at line 1472 failed. 01:42:25 |amethyst: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 01:42:45 <|amethyst> !tell Cryp71c (in arena, that is) 01:42:46 |amethyst: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 02:00:53 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:41:49 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:46:00 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.24/20111103063747]] 03:03:30 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:23 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:17:30 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:53 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 03:29:51 |amethyst: it wouldn't have to be full AI -- it can be short-circuited like it's the case with IOOD 03:29:52 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:46:43 hey guys just so you know i think i broke fight club somehow :( 03:47:32 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:37 h 03:50:17 !tell Cryp71c http://crawl.develz.org/ttyrecs/KiloByte/2011-11-22.13:40:17.ttyrec.bz2 3rd monster after converting to Nemelex: "You hit the jackal, but do no damage. Your kick misses the jackal. You peck the jackal. Your squeeze misses the jackal. The jackal is moderately wounded." 03:50:18 kilobyte: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 03:52:04 Wop: hey, the prompt is pretty clear: just press any key :p 03:52:21 i did but nothing happened 03:52:28 had to kill telnet 03:56:49 'q' will work, as a termcast command 03:57:09 of course, you can't send anything to the actual session 03:59:26 yeah figured i couldn't send keys, that why i was letting you guys know its stuck or whatever 04:00:12 oh do i just have to set up another fight 04:00:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:53 !fight butterfly hp:9999 v test spawner 04:01:10 !fight -cancel 04:01:42 yeah sorry about that 04:02:09 I kind of think we had a rare greensnark sighting yesterday 04:02:27 but still, looks like it's up to poor Napkin to repair stuff 04:03:05 what's up? 04:03:43 the fight club is stuck at "Hit any key to exit..." 04:04:06 it runs on CDO, right? 04:05:25 i don't think so 04:05:51 damn my bad 04:06:01 i must have misspelled ballistomycete or something 04:10:54 there's no such monster internally -- it's a state of ordinary ballistos 04:11:07 somehow, hyperactive ones are a separate monster 04:11:10 don't ask me why 04:17:40 !tell Cryp71c WTF... looks like it was 0.10-a0-2068-g0a7db92 -- before CDO updated to the ucc merge :p So it's likely you actually repaired stuff. Sorry for noise :p 04:17:40 kilobyte: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 04:27:44 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:50 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:42:33 any idea how to fix my "runtocorpse-and-eat-it"-macro? "\{6}corpse\{13}.cey" the \{13} never gets executed -- so it just writes "goto what?: corpse\{13}.cey" :( 04:43:25 what would you want a Ctrl-M for? 04:44:18 ctrl-m? 04:44:22 {13} is enter 04:44:23 \{13} 04:44:25 i thought 04:44:31 you want \{10} 04:44:49 ok let me try that :) 04:44:54 \{13} works for spell macros tho 04:45:29 hmm no 04:45:31 doesn't work either 04:46:12 is it even possible to use a macro for the search-for-feature? 04:46:17 no idea what you can put in macros really 04:46:19 so it actually hits enter 04:46:20 ok 04:46:21 perhaps... 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2263-gfa90262 05:03:06 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:46 -!- FatBoy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:40 Is it right place for Error reporting? 05:49:37 ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 960: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor 05:50:28 0.10-a0-2263 05:54:02 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:49 game crashed 05:55:11 -!- Administrator has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:22 -!- Administrator is now known as Pacra 05:56:00 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:23 FatBoy: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/ 05:57:58 (most of us are at work or sleeping... and bug reports just said on the IRC tend to be forgotten) 05:59:08 most of me is too lazy for registering 06:04:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:31 FatBoy: its easy, and you get a free registration for the tavern, too! 06:09:51 ok 06:10:01 almost done it 06:12:42 done, good bye 06:12:44 -!- FatBoy has left ##crawl-dev 06:16:26 ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 960: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4932) by FatBoy 06:18:13 -!- rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:06 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:43 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:50 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:01 -!- rejuxst has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:46:18 -!- syllogism- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:20 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:00 03MarvinPA * r9227e9dbbf4a 10/crawl-ref/source/food.cc: Don't prompt Vampires to bottle poisonous corpses when attempting butchery 06:56:54 MarvinPA: why do we prevent botting poisonous corpses? That's a damn annoying limitation. 06:57:05 i don't know really, yeah 06:57:06 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:57:41 there is a cost -- two additional potion types, but IMO gameplay benefits outweight that 06:58:43 yeah, i've not played vampires in a while but i remember it seeming like an odd restriction 07:06:11 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:00 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:27 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:18:10 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:46 Morning 07:21:46 Cryp71c: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:26:01 * Textmode huggles Cryp71c :3 07:26:34 :D 07:29:21 how are things going? 07:30:12 Alright, busy :P Trying to get ucc in a respectible state. 07:30:32 ucc? 07:31:53 the combat rewrite 07:32:12 Its already in master, have to get some stuff cleaned up 07:32:31 theres a crash report on mantis 07:33:24 thanks ale, I'll do that first 07:47:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:26 @??ice statue 07:47:26 ice statue (128) | Speed: 16 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Flags: 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 685 | Sp: b.cold (3d16), throw icicle (3d16), freezing cloud (2d17), ice beast. 07:47:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:26 alefury, ever see Fat on IRC< or did you just see the BR by chance? 07:54:44 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:45 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 07:56:32 fatboy was on irc a while back, reporting the bug 07:56:47 he left after reporting it on mantis 07:57:04 i have never seen him on irc before 07:57:37 !seen fatboy 07:57:38 I last saw FatBoy at Wed Nov 23 12:12:44 2011 UTC (1h 44m 53s ago) parting ##crawl-dev with message chanpart. 07:57:42 hrm 07:58:53 |amethyst, still here? Under what conditions do you still get the funny messages? 07:59:01 with "your" instead of something else 07:59:42 nvm 07:59:43 got it 08:11:27 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:15 sigh, debugging in windows is a pain and a half..I'm about to go back to linux :P 08:21:45 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:25:59 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:28:12 !tell |amethyst the crashes you reported to me should be corrected now. 08:28:12 I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 08:28:20 !tell \|amethyst the crashes you reported to me should be corrected now. 08:28:22 03Cryp71c * r5cda5ec76b6c 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix allied-monster kill messages 08:28:23 03Cryp71c * r757e3c69a545 10/crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h): Remove deprecated function left over from ucc rewrite 08:28:23 I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 08:28:39 |amethyst, I can't tell you a message, so I hope you read scrollback... 08:31:13 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:02 -!- cosh has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 08:33:45 cryp71c: try \amethyst 08:34:08 that's what whois gives... 08:34:50 That's because that is who he's registered under with nickserv, he had to change from \amethyst to |amethyst because of issues here in channel with the bots (presumably !lg and whatnot) 08:35:05 but it looks like henzell doesn't handle it very well in tell 08:36:10 -!- blueDave2 is now known as blueDave 08:36:27 what about just "amethyst"? 08:36:53 some people are attached to the first letter of their nick 08:39:29 kilobyte, it would work, but he wouldn't ever get it, henzell looks for exact matches. 08:39:35 here it's not a letter, though 08:39:47 !tell Cryp71c rar rar rar 08:39:47 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 08:39:50 -!- Cryp71c is now known as |Cryp71c 08:39:52 <|Cryp71c> rar 08:39:52 |Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:39:54 <|Cryp71c> ... 08:40:00 <|Cryp71c> kilobyte, good call. 08:40:02 <|Cryp71c> !messages 08:40:03 (1/1) Cryp71c said (15s ago): rar rar rar 08:40:04 -!- |Cryp71c is now known as Cryp71c 08:40:35 !tell amethyst The crashes you reported should be fixed, thanks. 08:40:35 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let amethyst know. 08:42:39 well, he could name himself "𝔞𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖞𝖘𝖙" 08:42:55 (pretty likely you don't have a font and/or client to view that :p) 08:44:40 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:26 kilobyte, the real question is whether - when you typed that up - if you truely used some characters I was highly unlikely to have, or if you pasted "𝖘" over and over :P 08:46:47 Ah, it would seem the former 08:46:50 <3 logs 08:47:11 -!- Guest33522 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:47:13 !seen elliptic 08:47:14 I last saw elliptic at Wed Nov 23 09:16:08 2011 UTC (5h 31m 5s ago) saying er, rupert farming[1] on ##crawl. 08:50:15 kilobyte, I'm pretty sure of this, but I can't recall...one of the changes I made to player-to-hit was that (instead of a flat malus) to attacking invisible creatures, to_hit gets * 3/4 Do you recall that being discussed months ago? 08:50:22 I thought I made that change after speaking in here, but I can't recall. 08:50:47 (it actually goes both ways, for players and monsters) 08:50:56 But that's a big change, so I wanted to make sure. 08:51:40 can't recall that, sorry 08:53:15 hrm, well...monsters fighting invisible defenders have tohit *65/100 and players fighting invisible monsters get -6 08:53:55 Guess I'll put it back to that...that seems a rather significant change, we can revisit it later. 08:55:24 goes quite against the idea of unifying things 08:55:59 kilobyte, what, putting it back the way it was? Yeah... -_- 08:57:14 But in all fairness, most stuff still lacks symmetry because of the massive balance implications..all of that will have to be addressed either in another branch or somewhere down the (near) road. So while I'd like to leave it as is, I can see the argument to have ucc function as near to pre-merge as possible. 09:05:41 !tell elliptic to-hit is fixed. Most of it was the same except for some transformation stuff that was left out and changes to how invisibility affected to-hit. I can't recall if it was discussed a few months ago, but to be safe I've put it back to pre-ucc functionality. 09:05:42 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 09:06:16 03Cryp71c * r6026d83e815a 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Address player to hit to match pre-ucc merge 09:09:11 kilobyte, on a side note, I rather enjoy being able to use dprf instead of all the ugly #ifdef ... stuff...however for variable declarations which are only used in a dprf, those variables throw unused_variable warnings when you build non-debug...I don't suppose you know of a clever way to keep this from happening? 09:10:24 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:11:15 there is a way but it would lead to considerable costs in non-debug builds 09:11:37 ie, a real function rather than a #define 09:12:15 any strings used would be malloced, monster names would be build (creating the whole monster_info object), etc 09:13:57 these costs could probably be reduced by __attribute(("pure")) or __attribute(("const")) but that's 1. non-portable, 2. unsightly, 3. incomplete 09:14:24 (going away for now, see you later!) 09:17:45 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: that fixes the arena crash, but I got another... debugging it now 09:17:46 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:18:09 <|amethyst> !messages 09:18:10 (1/1) Cryp71c said (37m 34s ago): The crashes you reported should be fixed, thanks. 09:18:29 kilobyte, k, thanks. not going to worry about it then. #ifdef will have to grow on me. 09:18:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:30 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: looks like the check you removed on line 868 of melee_attack.cc (defender->atype() == ACT_PLAYER) is necessary 09:20:20 What results in the crash so I can test locally? 09:20:34 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: I got a crash from an acid blob attacking me in melee 09:20:51 ah, k. 09:21:10 <|amethyst> any monster hitting me 09:23:27 k, pushing it back up 09:23:51 So that should catch me up on the crashes. 09:24:10 03Cryp71c * r96e448e8651b 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix crash resulting on melee_attack.cc:868 09:25:03 <|amethyst> it's not possible for a melee attack to have the player as both attacker and defender, right? 09:25:47 right now, i believe that's true 09:26:09 |amethyst, you could be confused and hit yourself in your own confusion. 09:26:18 <|amethyst> hm 09:26:36 thats so pokemon 09:26:38 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:50 Cryp71c: player confusion doesn't currently do that 09:27:01 <|amethyst> there are some code paths that look like they should crash if that happened 09:27:10 Eronarn, oh, ok...was that changed? I thought you used to be able to hurt yourself. 09:27:12 <|amethyst> or if a third actor type is created 09:28:06 monsters can hurt themselves; players can't 09:28:16 unless something has been changed 09:30:28 |amethyst, lots of stuff would break if there were a 3rd atype(), so that's not too much of a concern. 09:41:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:22 -!- Pingas has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:42:33 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:09 <|amethyst> seems to be fine now, but a lot of calls to as_monster() will need to be checked if there ever is a way for a player to self-melee 09:43:15 !messages 09:43:16 (1/2) dpeg said (3d 19h 5m 26s ago): Thank you! You can extract it, if you want. (Keith from 100Rogues and AURO also told me that it's good.) I won't do it myself, looks too much like hubris. 09:43:27 Who is AURO? 09:43:29 !messages 09:43:29 (1/1) kilobyte said (3d 19h 4m 12s ago): would you care to checkout wip-snake-floor, pound on &^R for a while and decide which of the floor[s] to keep and which to skip? 09:44:15 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: it's another game by the author of 100rogues 09:44:35 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinofarmgames/auro-the-golden-prince 09:44:36 Ahhh, I see. 09:44:40 Thanks! 09:46:41 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:47:35 nice rewards on the kickstarter 09:49:48 iphone games cost a lot to develop, huh? 09:50:00 seems like a pretty big goal 09:50:11 MarvinPA: art assets, sounds, etc. 09:50:31 and kickstarter takes a cut too 09:53:29 Interesting, Ido is on board with that 09:53:41 I recognize that name from various discussions 09:53:44 i guess if they're not developing the assets themselves, maybe 09:54:00 Also recognize Keith, but I'm not a real fan of him mostly because he's ... well, very polarized in his approach :) 09:54:26 I would hope they're going to use the $15k to offload the assets to pros 09:55:52 that would do best -- let the three of them focus on the mechanics, content, story, etc. and let a professional artist do the art/sounds... i see a lot of droid games where clearly the programmer or his friend was the guy who did the art work, and while it's not _bad_ exactly it also isn't _good_. 09:56:00 * lorimer shuts up as this is very non-crawl :D 09:56:13 <|amethyst> one of the three devs is a professional artist 09:56:25 yeah, the kickstarter doesn't seem to go into exactly what the funding is for though 09:56:28 unless it's in the video 09:56:29 is he? hm. i guess it's a "pay for his own time" thing 09:56:37 i shall watch it and see 09:56:46 <|amethyst> Blake Reynolds - Lead Artist/Composer. Lead artist on "100 Rogues" and many other projects. Has a Masters in Studio Composition. 09:56:47 so he can set aside time from RealContractingJobs™ to do Auro assets more easily 09:57:11 <|amethyst> so actually a professional musician I guess 09:57:59 <|amethyst> though 100 rogues is for-profit, so I guess that makes him a professional artist too :) 09:59:44 <|amethyst> $1000 to get your own class, $175 to get your own song :) 10:00:31 hm, that might be something i'd consider if i ever tried a project through kickstarter 10:00:54 for any donation over $100, you get limited access to the day-to-day financials that the funding is used for 10:01:17 (ie. "$2000 - paid to artist to create character art and animations", that kind of thing) 10:01:46 because that's the first question I ask anytime I see one of these. "How is this money going to be used -- what's the business plan here?" 10:01:52 there was a good gamasutra article about how to make a good kickstarter page recently, featured a project that i'm helping with :) 10:02:01 http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6529/building_a_better_kickstarter_.php 10:02:05 i mean, if you ask for $15k, you should be able to say "I need $2k for this, $4k for this, ..." etc. 10:02:26 and yeah, explaining what the money is going towards seems like a pretty big one 10:03:13 lorimer, if you watch he video, there are two guys, one is the developer, the other is the artist..essentially, looks like they're doing all their own graphics, animations, and musical compositions. 10:04:01 So it doesn't look like much in the way of assets will be contracted out. 10:04:12 Cryp71c: Well, they clearly at least have one pro on-staff, so I figure the $15k is to keep the poor guy from working-for-free 10:04:32 i mean, if i throw $5k at a third-party artist, or if i buy $5k of my in-house artist's contracting time, that works out the same 10:05:10 'cos all my people gots to eat, and if they can pay for eating by working on ($MYPROJECT) so much the better 10:05:20 Well, yeah, I meant more that the 15k looks to go to the two of them for their time likely as professionals in their fields, rather than paying for a non project-affiliated pro to do the assets. 10:05:31 <|amethyst> "$1000: pay my rent. $1000: pay bob's rent. $500: feed self. $500: feed Bob." etc 10:05:34 Yup. That would make sense. 10:05:46 Bob can go on a diet. $250. 10:06:05 (" 10:06:28 ("We took a vote on 'Screw Bob?' and it passed, 2 to 1.") 10:06:36 <|amethyst> DEAR SIR BOBS MEALS ARE NON-NEGOTIABLE 10:07:05 <|amethyst> HE IS VERY HUNGRY AND SOMETIMES HE BEATS ME 10:08:35 ("We took a vote on 'Screw |amethyst, too?', and it also passed 2 to 1.") 10:09:10 Star Command (from the gamasutra page) looks nice. 10:09:14 <|amethyst> railroaded! 10:09:24 |amethyst: Damn straight. :D 10:09:55 * lorimer learned how from work, where people who fail to show up for design and planning meetings routinely get railroaded 10:10:15 "Who wants to work on the installer?" "____'s not here, looks like it's him" 10:10:52 Oh nice, UCC got merged. 10:12:19 MarvinPA: 100$ for the yearly iOS-access-fee and a newish Mac computer. So for around 1000$ you're in. 10:13:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:27 oh, and of course an iOS device. the simulator for dev on the computer isn't a good replica of the real thing 10:14:45 < lorimer> because that's the first question I ask anytime I see one of these. "How is this money going to be used -- what's the business plan here?" 10:15:15 i donated $1000 to ido's last project, so i got to hear some of the internals 10:15:42 basically, it had to be enough money for him to be able to live off it for long enough to finish the game 10:21:14 yeah, enough money so you can live off it and don't have to work in a boring day-to-day job where are the creative energy gets sucked out of you so you have nothing left for your game. 10:21:30 just look at lorimer and how he had to neglect sporkhack because of that! 10:23:58 kilobyte: Do the Snake floors still need looking at? 10:29:15 theyre not in yet, so probably 10:29:46 see 4913 10:54:05 bhaak: The funny part is, that's almost totally true -- when my day job switched over to C#/.NET instead of C++/Win32, I ran out of headspace 10:54:52 Eronarn: Yeah, and I think that's important to include in the kickstarter writeup -- "if you cough up a good chunk, we'll keep you in the loop on where your money's going" 10:56:20 bhaak: anyway, it just ended up taking too much energy to both work with very-modern stuff and pre-ANSI89 C. With C++ it was very similar code I was writing so I didn't suffer from that -- but once it split off, it was two effectively-different worlds and... well, Zog gotta eat :D 10:57:17 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:15 in a burst of mild irony, if I ever get some free time I'm more likely to look into an Android project myself.. since that runs on Java/XML layouts, which is relatively comparable to C#/WPF stuff and so isn't as much of a headspace mangle :) 11:00:52 lorimer: for me, it's a bit different. i can write in any language, then go back to C and thinking: "oh wouldn't it be nice if this didn't have to be C ...". OTOH i can write C in any language, but this is not something I put in my resume. :) 11:01:03 :D 11:01:40 Yeah, I still find code from 2009-2010 at work that has that problem. "Huh. I appear to have written this in C, when there were ____, ___, and _____ that could've done it much more efficiently." 11:03:25 Have there been any concerns raised over the depth and difficulty of all the bee vaults now that bees berserk? 11:03:35 -!- hayenne has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:38 Hi all 11:03:52 there was some mention of possibly not spawning them on d:8 11:03:55 Their raw damage is really high, and with a single vault containing 20+ bees, it feels like its now a "oh...tp away, you certainly won't escape them on foot" issue. 11:03:56 past that they seem fine 11:04:02 oh and reducing the max size, yeah 11:04:17 I see some weird game behaviour in Lair - an apparently invisible monster is attacking me, and I don't see it despite I have SInv 11:04:36 it also deals no damage to me though I only have 3 AC 11:04:43 looks like a bug 11:05:06 I am playing on CDO now, can anyone take a look? 11:05:09 MarvinPA, I think "they're fine by d:8" isn't very accurate. Even with clouds of flame the berserk bees just stand in them and melee you to death...making them far more dangerous than even orc warriors and the like. 11:06:01 So...vault of 20 fast orc warriors? yeah...no. 11:06:22 you can teleport away :P 11:06:56 or kill the queen 11:06:58 couldn't we spawn them sans queens earlier? 11:07:51 mmm, could do but then they're back to being really boring again 11:08:38 the old bees were a good hard challenge when met at their earliest spawn point in my opinion 11:09:01 could spawn the queen only a bit later than that. not sure about the exact depths though :/ 11:12:35 MarvinPA, a vault that's impossible to tackle at a given depth without teleporting away and resorting to cheaper tactics (like isolating individual monsters, kililng, and resting) is going to result in a really high death rate for players that 1) don't recognize the threat 2) don't have TP 3) have TP but get a bad teleport destination 4) Have a floor layout without corridors or easily sectioned off areas 11:12:43 Just seems really unreasonable 11:12:59 (imo) 11:13:04 there are loads of monsters that the best solution is to escape rather than stand and fight 11:13:17 maybe it will teach new players not to stand and fight when it's likely to kill them :P 11:13:38 Yes but many of these monsters aren't speed 20 and liable to get zerked. 11:13:40 A lot of the "you should run away" monsters are either specific counters to that player's race and job or are uniques. 11:13:54 Also, yeah. 11:15:00 I would be fine with delaying queen presence until deeper version of the same vault, reducing the bee size, or both. 11:15:03 well there was a fairly thorough discussion on bee vaults a few days ago, anyway 11:15:42 from which a fairly reasonable conclusion seemed to be something along the lines of "don't spawn them before lair depth (ie d:8), reduce max sizes" 11:16:03 oh also "don't keep spawning them all the way down to d:27" 11:16:08 because that is silly 11:16:59 they already don't spawn before absdepth 8 11:17:05 get built* 11:18:13 right, i think the suggestion was to start them on d:9 instead of d:8 11:18:51 An invisible bug attacking player (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4933) by hayenne 11:19:34 MarvinPA, idk, I guess we can take this up on a wiki or mantis issue, but I don't think moving such a deadly vault 1 depth deeper is a realistic fix. 11:19:48 i don't think they're really very deadly at all :P 11:19:59 agentchuck the Pacifier (L18 DDHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 549 failed on turn 47741. (Vault:8) 11:20:39 at the moment the maximum dimension of a special room is determined by 5 + crawl.random2avg(6, 2) 11:21:01 that includes the border, so the 3 + random2avg(6, 2) of monster space 11:21:17 s/the 3/3/ 11:22:58 I remember trying to retain that from the original implementation 11:23:33 if somebody can come up with a better formula, well, please go ahead 11:24:03 is that just for all special rooms regardless of depth? 11:24:10 yep 11:24:19 ah okay 11:25:07 well, those that get built into layout_roguey use different dimensions, of course, and they can get ridiculous 11:26:20 hmm, I might know how to fix that, even. 11:26:56 if it's too large, it could be built in an inner room (like those that are sometimes filled with treasure) 11:34:03 hm, 4933 sounds very much like the old bug with summons not killing monsters properly or whatever that was 11:34:15 anyone know what was up with that? kilobyte, maybe? 11:36:31 have we considered making bees only able to get one 'solid' sting on you, and then dying? 11:37:39 this would make them way, way less annoying to fight while still being reasonably lethal in the part of the game where they should be 11:37:42 eronarn: could be interesting, but really I don't see anything particularly wrong with bees at the moment aside from some bee rooms being ridiculously large (and thus boring) 11:38:39 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:50 elliptic, the vaults with queens seem to set the player up for either tp or die. 11:38:52 is my qualm 11:39:37 elliptic: we should really drop bee/orc/etc. rooms :P 11:39:38 other options: go around a corner, use wands to kill the queen, use certain powerful god abilities 11:40:09 eronarn: they wouldn't bother me if they were less common (or at least more different varieties) and smaller 11:41:26 Turgor (L25 DsSu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster giant goldfish failed to pathfind to (39,17) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 11:41:45 elliptic: are they still not-actually-vaults, but coded elsewhere? 11:41:57 no, they're just vaults 11:42:05 they are in rooms.des or something like that I think? 11:42:54 builder/rooms.des has the subvaults, variable/mini_monsters.des has the special_room vault used in layout_basic levels, and layout_roguey sometimes builds a special room as well 11:43:32 the latter are a primary source of omg-huge special rooms, but that can be helped without removing them 11:44:39 alefury: Oh and thanks 11:45:46 i would prefer t osee the boxy rooms replaced with stuff like caverns, at mnimum 11:46:00 they're rather boring in layout, not just size 11:49:35 Whoever triggered the server update on CDO, can you update it again please? 11:49:40 I have no idea who has the capability to do that. 11:52:51 don't trigger it quite yet 11:52:57 wait for this commit I'm about to push 11:54:21 eronarn: well, "room full of monsters" isn't really used much in crawl aside from these rooms... I agree it would be nice to have some variety in layout, though 11:55:04 03elliptic * r9d08f109e0a5 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix some to-hit code. 11:55:11 like, some rooms with a single door like current, some more natural-shaped rooms, maybe some rooms with a multiple-square doorway 11:55:45 door vault :D 11:56:05 does that one still exist 11:56:34 kilobyte, napkin, due... mind updating CDO? there are some pretty important fixes 11:57:03 on it 11:57:11 !coffee Napkin 11:57:12 * Henzell hands Napkin a cup of caf au lait, brewed by Ijyb. 11:57:18 Napkin: thanks :) 11:57:29 thanks :) 11:58:55 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2269-g9d08f10 (32) 11:59:33 oh, nice speed :) 11:59:38 did compilation speed up? 12:01:05 03dolorous * r8ff3278e9ee4 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Move the routine to possibly drop a monster hide into its own function. 12:01:05 03dolorous * re1d67acc78f0 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: In _create_monster_hide(), drop a hide at the corpse's position. 12:01:06 03dolorous * r04898a6911c7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc misc.h mon-act.cc): Make hide drops work for the fake butchery of corpse-eating monsters. 12:01:09 03dolorous * ra9bac9052ce6 10/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc: Add hide drops to vampire-drained corpses. 12:02:36 What is everyones opinions on the new capitalization paterns for messages? There seems to be mixed feelings, but they're small changes that just happens to be different from the way it was before. 12:08:45 the thing I mentioned the other day with multiple items on a stack: "A +0 animal skin; A rat corpse" 12:08:48 still bothers me a lot 12:09:05 "a lot" O_o 12:09:31 Napkin: incorrect use of semicolon! 12:10:25 it is simply incorrect, yes 12:10:57 '; a' or '. A' 12:11:05 i think the former is better 12:11:10 and capital letters like that in the middle of the line draw attention, but those letters are the least important in the line 12:11:54 It doesn't bother me much, but it would seem that I may be the minority in that regard 12:12:04 s/much/at all 12:16:16 well, to me this "laksda; A lkaj sld" looks like a bug, true 12:17:20 Napkin, well, the change was more or less a side-effect of the removal of CAP/NOCAP (and thus, autocapitalization), so whether or not we keep it like it is or change it would seem largely like personal preference. 12:17:41 Though kilo would have to comment on the technical feasibility of whether such a change is possible...I would think it was. 12:25:07 Cryp71c: my target would have capitalization encoded in the message itself 12:25:14 as one of grammatical symbols 12:25:43 kilobyte, that's how you implemented it, or that's the change you would make to facilitate this change? 12:26:31 for English, these are "apostrophize", "pluralize noun", "3rd-personize verb", "add an indef. article" (which adds definite when needed), "add a definite article" 12:26:55 no, how I want to implement that when the translation framework is done 12:27:00 ah ok 12:27:15 but, in the short term, there's mprf_nocap() which doesn't capitalize 12:27:17 (strictly speaking, in English, it'd be -ise not -ize) 12:27:47 phyphor: that's en_GB, we can have both that and en_US :p 12:27:53 (not worth the effort probably) 12:28:22 aye, armour..armor... 12:28:23 -_- 12:28:55 my current plan is $something -- like, $apos(%s) 12:28:56 "it waz a zcroll of curze armor" 12:29:44 with a few special symbols: $$ for literal $, $. for "capitalize next letter" and $, for "don't capitalize" 12:30:04 sounds cool 12:30:14 which are set in the translations database so those silly Germans can capitalize every noun 12:30:28 kilobyte, wait, you have separate explicit symbols for capitalize next and don't capitalize next ? 12:30:29 \o/ 12:30:36 oh, ok... 12:30:37 nvm 12:30:59 btw, kilobyte... :-P 12:31:05 hardly ever needed in English... pretty much just two combined sentences 12:35:55 -!- hayenne has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 12:35:57 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:07 dpeg! :) 12:36:11 Napking! 12:36:56 I'm intentionally not making a stub yet since I'm still now sure about the syntax. There are issues like recursion: "foo skeleton" needs to recurse "foo", and the result can have a gender depending on either "skeleton" or "foo", depending on the language. 12:37:04 * kilobyte meows at dpeg. 12:37:26 changing mprf_nocap() is a matter of a quick grep 12:38:57 dpeg, CDO has updated trunk, so...BR inc! :P 12:42:01 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:31 * dpeg bellows at kilobyte. 12:46:57 03dolorous * r5f385e9d81f3 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Constify. 12:47:18 kilobyte: changing it to what ? 12:47:36 anyway, whatever you do, don't screw up those item letters again! 12:47:56 (And if you find any places where they're still screwed up, fix, please!) 12:48:25 03elliptic * r21e3fb06b703 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix capitalization for lists of items on the ground. 12:48:37 hey 12:49:00 walking around.. suddenly: Found a cursed glowing mace. 12:49:12 Napkin: it happens 12:49:18 how do i know it's cursed? :-O 12:49:26 is there an Ash vault nearby? 12:49:47 ah, an ash altar directly below 12:50:05 see, it's flavour 12:50:09 hihi, nice spell book :D 12:51:05 I see that Napkin is back home :) 12:51:15 !wtf sk 12:51:16 Skald 12:51:23 good lord, all of the Skald starting powers have huge power scaling 12:52:09 dpeg :) 12:52:21 @whereis dpeg 12:52:22 dpeg the Peltast (L16 MiFi), a worshipper of Zin, saved on D:16 on 2011-11-23 after 48825 turns. 12:52:24 playing one game an evening at the moment 12:52:37 Cryp71c: not really? 12:52:44 elliptic, I meant max power 12:52:47 but still.. really having trouble getting used to the new skill micromanagement :-O 12:52:56 power just affects duration for most of those spells, so not a big deal 12:53:00 Not that they were powerful, but compared to most starting spells, they don't cap at a low power. 12:53:04 yeah 12:53:18 a lot of spells should probably have a lower power cap, yeah... there are some that go up to 200 for no apparent reason 12:54:38 Napkin: there should be less or even no micromanagement :O 12:55:03 200 power is pretty infeasible to reach anyway 12:55:10 ??spell power 12:55:11 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT divided by 10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 12:55:14 ??spell power[5] 12:55:15 spell power[5/5]: A ruby script for calculating spellpower: http://pastebin.com/f114699d1 Another for calculating enchantment success vs monster MR: http://pastebin.com/f70a79d8e 12:55:23 G-Flex: with 3 enhancers it is doable 12:55:27 i end up focussing almost all skills.. and then they rise very slowly :-$ 12:55:30 does the last # represent full 200 power, or less 12:55:33 wild magic mutation also helps 12:55:36 because it seems like getting that is hard 12:55:39 less, it represents 150 power 12:55:41 oh 12:55:47 so even 150 power is a little difficult, it seems 12:55:58 also 3 enhancers is, like, a lot 12:56:05 elliptic, the z? chart caps at 150 stll? 12:56:15 how do you even get 3 enhancers 12:56:20 Cryp71c: what do you mean 12:56:30 ########## means 150-200 power 12:56:31 my DEFE had a ring of fire and staff of fire, but even that's not 3 12:56:37 G-Flex: two rings of fire 12:56:40 yeah 12:56:41 or staff of archmagi 12:56:45 elliptic, thought that was changed at some point so that full # represented near-200 power 12:56:45 ??staff of archmagi 12:56:46 I don't have a page labeled staff_of_archmagi in my learndb. 12:56:54 er, robe of archmagi 12:56:57 Cryp71c: no 12:56:57 oh 12:56:58 that 12:57:07 ??200 power 12:57:08 200 power[1/1]: With all skills at 27, you need 3 enhancers and 34 INT, or 2 enhancers and 50 INT. Impossible with just 1. Four enhancers don't give an effect better than three. 12:57:33 doesn't wizardry help a miniscule amount 12:57:38 not any more 12:58:05 oh 12:58:06 ??Wizardry 12:58:08 wizardry[1/5]: Makes spellcasting less likely to fail. Comes in staff and ring form. Worshiping Vehumet grants a similar but unrelated bonus to {destructive spells}. Stacks, but not very efficiently (see {wizardry[3]). From equipment, provides a small spell power boost equivalent to (ring: 1.5, staff: 2) spell school levels. 12:58:15 that last sentence in particular is what I mean 12:58:50 hm, I thought that was removed but I can check 13:00:22 yeah, it doesn't seem to be there any more 13:01:06 brilliance does increase spell power by 3 spell school levels currently, though 13:01:26 and wild magic stacks with 3 enhancers, essentially as a 4th enhancer 13:01:42 do enhancers stack well 13:01:44 or is it like wizardry 13:01:51 wait why am I asking you, the learndb probably knows! 13:01:58 ??spell power 13:01:59 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT divided by 10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 13:02:03 oh wow 13:02:14 they stack well, though power itself still has stepdowns that are applied at the end 13:02:34 right 13:02:38 enhancer stacking looks pretty good 13:04:07 Napkin: I played my last win exclusively in auto-mode, with some focusing. Worked well. You know that fractional skills work now? 13:05:09 what do you mean with "fractional skills"? 13:05:24 Armour 6.5 ==> the 0.5 is not wasted! 13:05:40 ah, nice 13:06:13 that's why it's displayed like that, yeah 13:06:38 i'm a bit confused about the non-automatic mode 13:06:57 when i gain first level in a skill, that skill is automatically "turned off", right? 13:07:20 napkin: that's how it works in 0.9, yes 13:07:29 different in git? 13:07:30 in 0.10, there is nothing special about the first level in a skill 13:07:37 pardon? 13:07:58 elliptic: what about spellcasting 13:07:59 you mean it's not "turned off" in 0.10? 13:08:51 napkin: in 0.10, you can turn skills on or off at 0, and the default is off in manual mode... so if you don't turn a skill on, it will never raise at all 13:09:05 ah 13:09:12 G-Flex: recently spellcasting was changed so that you don't need a level in it to learn spells 13:10:03 because at the moment 0.9 it's a little bit unfortunate, that the huge bunch of xp i just got gave me first level of spellcasting, and everything else went into other skills 13:10:16 elliptic are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure you can't learn magic or join sif until you have 1 spellcasting. Unless that happened in the last couple of days 13:10:24 Wop: it was fairly recent 13:10:39 you can't join sif until you have a spell memorized 13:11:22 ah ok. so no more "you're starting to get the hang of this magic thing" i guess? 13:11:42 yeah, that should be gone 13:18:04 Zin imprisons Kirke with walls of pure silver! 13:18:53 hmm, you can spellcast with 0 levels in spellcasting now? are you sure ? 13:19:32 last time I tried, it didn't seem possible 13:20:26 SamB: just tested 13:20:37 it is a recent change, as I said 13:21:08 do the formulas make it sensible to do this? 13:21:27 I mean, is there any point in casting with <1 spellcasting skill? 13:21:28 no less sensible than meleeing with a big axe at 0 skill, I think 13:21:45 you should obviously still raise spellcasting skill 13:22:08 hmm, but it does let you start training schools sooner, so yeah, I guess that's a point 13:26:13 Cryp71c: The giant spore completely misses you. x2 13:26:22 ...lol 13:26:26 let me take a look 13:26:41 presumably you are only checking for exploding after checking EV and such 13:26:44 or something like that 13:27:33 I like blowing up my ball lightnings by whacking them with a staff 13:28:47 k 1 sec, think I've got it fixed 13:38:14 03dolorous * r373149cce0d7 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Simplify. 13:40:10 alrighty, fixed. rebasing and pushing, moved spore explosions all the way up until JUST after attempt, in case somehow the explosion could be stopped by something in there. 13:40:31 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:15 03Cryp71c * r468563df19fc 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix spore exploding 13:52:53 A helpful soul watching me on CDO just enlightened me about Divine Stamina :O 13:53:14 ??divine stamina 13:53:15 I don't have a page labeled divine_stamina in my learndb. 13:53:59 invokable rPois/rRot 13:54:16 100% effective, unlike regular rPois 13:54:23 which god? 13:54:27 ??vitalisation[2] 13:54:28 vitalisation[2/2]: In 0.10, protects you from sickness, nausea, rot, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain while active, and boosts your stats (up to +9 each, depending on Invoc skill). 13:54:29 Zin 13:54:49 "divine stamina" is an odd name for that effect imo 13:54:52 oh oops, rot's in there twice 13:54:52 do you still ahve to stack uses of it to get to +9 13:55:02 !learn edit vitalisation[2] s/rot, // 13:55:03 vitalisation[2/2]: In 0.10, protects you from sickness, nausea, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain while active, and boosts your stats (up to +9 each, depending on Invoc skill). 13:55:08 no 13:55:12 Eronarn: they don't stack, the bonus is rerolled 13:56:27 rerolled? that sounds bad 13:56:39 * dpeg realises that Divine Stamina might suffice to kill an orange statue. 13:56:55 also potentially bad: nausea protection (it encourages using your godly protection to eat unclean food, which is absolutely anti-flavorful for zin) 13:56:58 !learn edit vitalisation[2] s|$| Has a small negative food cost, but won't go past Full.| 13:56:58 vitalisation[2/2]: In 0.10, protects you from sickness, nausea, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain while active, and boosts your stats (up to +9 each, depending on Invoc skill). Has a small negative food cost, but won't go past Full. 13:58:13 Eronarn: Recite is already more random than weapons of chaos :p 13:58:18 03dolorous * rbd06cf2cf5f8 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Use monster pronouns properly in Zin's Imprison messages. 13:58:42 kilobyte: hyperbole :P 13:59:50 as in: chaos does good damage most of the time, with bad effects typically undoing a single round of combat -- and only quite rarely berserking the enemy or shafting you 14:00:47 if you're afraid of berserk you can use Chaos on demons, undead and mindless livings, which leaves "only" shafts 14:01:02 kilobyte: there aren't any outright negative effects of recite now - just the time cost 14:01:05 1/1000 chance ends up shafting you once per ~3 dungeon levels 14:01:25 paralysation is pretty damn negative to me 14:01:38 gets your EV to 0 14:01:43 funny... SearchBot from 109.207.13.50 caused a load of 10, because he started indexing all morgues 14:02:12 kilobyte: hm, it wasn't intentional that it paralyzed - it seems wrong to have all delays automatically do that, if that's what's going on 14:03:06 cryp71c: messages involving "helpless monsters" are a bit weird-looking 14:03:09 alternately, recite could be made a multi-turn status effect, and you are silenced for the duration of it 14:03:12 but can still fight 14:03:14 The helpless Erolcha fails to defend herself. 14:03:15 You puncture the helpless Erolcha. The helpless Erolcha is poisoned. 14:03:15 The helpless Erolcha shouts! 14:03:15 _The helpless Erolcha is lightly wounded. 14:03:15 that might be better 14:03:25 like, surely she isn't still helpless for all of that :P 14:03:49 it is also causing trouble with the unique auto-annotations 14:03:59 Annotations 14:03:59 D:8 helpless Erolcha 14:04:10 Eronarn: another thing: blindness doesn't seem to be doing anything at all 14:04:18 except for a small stab chance 14:04:28 kilobyte: well, right now it's just based on invis - i doubt most zin characters have high stealth 14:04:53 stealth is pretty worthless if the monster is already awake 14:05:39 i believe it still affects noise, which they use to figure out where you are if you're invis 14:05:46 could be wrong about that though 14:05:47 elliptic, yeah that's the helpless prop at work, I may remove it and manually put in "helpless" in just the stab message and see how that works out. 14:05:52 Not sure if helpless prop is used elsewhere. 14:05:58 yeah, the relevant factor would be stab skill really 14:06:17 it should still be a hefty miss chance though 14:06:22 if THAT'S not working, there is a bug 14:06:26 Cryp71c: that sounds likely to cause fewer problems, or you could see if you could remove it at some good intermediate point in the attack processing 14:07:40 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 14:15:21 There is Some shallow water here. 14:15:39 i assume that's a ucc thing too? 14:21:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:23:09 I don't think so, only mprf() and mpr() have auto-capitalization. 14:26:59 the capitalization in _base_feature_desc() could be causing it, I guess? 14:27:47 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Holy shit, this is going to be awesome.] 14:39:54 -!- Ragdoll_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:50 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:03 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:44 -!- Ragdoll_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:48 -!- hayenne has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:55 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 15:21:14 -!- |Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 15:33:07 -!- |Blade has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:37:08 -!- |Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:15 hey, i'm playing trunk for a change 15:37:34 what does it mean, that monster names in the monster list are now colored differently? 15:37:49 an idea of its difficulty 15:38:33 ah 15:38:44 depending on xl, huh? 15:39:13 Napkin: mhm 15:39:43 i was wondering why that one orc was white, the next was dark-grey 15:39:45 Napkin, grey, normal, yellow, orange/reddish 15:39:50 maybe i levelled up, true 15:40:07 ic, ic 15:40:41 it's not perfect but probably good for new players already now 15:40:53 definitely 15:41:04 <|amethyst> (monster XP) / (1 + (XP for your current level/30)) 15:41:08 it's not bad either 15:41:26 <|amethyst> 0 is trivial, 1-5 is easy, 6-32 is tough, higher is nasty 15:41:27 maybe the equipment should be taken into consideration though 15:41:45 Napkin: it's hard getting it right :) 15:41:45 *monster equipment 15:42:07 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:12 i trust you guys will :) 15:42:13 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:39 I read that ToME now also has autoexplore (Brogue did it a bit earlier) :) 15:43:58 yeah, with b35 15:44:15 tiger_eye implemented it, not based on any other implementation 15:44:31 Napkin: good! 15:44:32 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:45:26 my dad has been playing tome excessively for a while now 15:45:40 brogue & tome & crawl, but mostly tome at the moment 15:45:47 Napkin: what does he think? And you? 15:46:00 morning all 15:46:06 moin due :) 15:46:12 Hi due! 15:46:27 my power is going out soon so I won't be doing any crawl dev today, however I should tomorrow! 15:46:28 he likes brogue very much - even though it's his first ascii-only game :) 15:46:38 I've never played brogue 15:46:42 plays it as a coffee-break game in between sessions 15:47:18 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:21 how come, due? literal power Ah?! 15:47:59 tome he switched to ascii-mode voluntarily, because darkgod doesn't care that the healthbars are blocked by the 2.5D walls/trees/objects :D 15:48:41 i think he likes the skill combinations you can do and the adventure of figuring out where to go next, what to do, etc 15:49:14 but also, he already complained about the fact, that there is only one story and many levels are like chores to repeat them over and over 15:49:23 the ADOM syndrome 15:49:35 agreed (as far as i heard of it) 15:49:39 * dpeg believes that roguelikes are not good at *this* kind of storytelling 15:49:51 but it is very good that different roguelikes have very different scopes, of course 15:50:01 i think dungeon crawl is on a good way, making branches show up by chance (shoals, swamp, snake pit) 15:50:19 Let's hope there'll be Spider in 0.10 :) 15:50:23 * dpeg prays to the spider god. 15:50:27 more of those would be cool, i think - to make it even more random 15:50:30 hehe 15:51:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:37 so, auto-explore in tome will make it easier for him, i think 15:54:38 dpeg: i mentioned a few strategy or tower defense games, but it seems i can't interest him at the moment.. i think he went full scale into the roguelike trap ;D 15:55:33 <3 15:55:47 Do you know really good tower defense games? 15:56:08 I am quite familiar with strategy games already. (Give Spaceward Ho! a try, if you can. It rocks.) 15:56:31 <|Blade> (Spaceward Ho! is one of my favorite gaming memories) 15:56:50 !tell kilobyte I like floor_snake_a the best, monsters and items show up nice against it, and it's good colour combination with the walls. C and D are fine too. 15:56:51 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 15:57:23 |Blade: it is still good. Had no shiny graphics to begin with, so who cares. I learned a lot about design from that game (in the positive direction)... the standards like Warlords, Empire etc. teached me more in the what-to-avoid direction. 15:58:37 HoMM is proof that a baroque game can also be very good. The complicated always suffer from imbecile AI, though. 15:58:50 <|Blade> I think I'll go download Spaceward Ho again; it's a good sign when merely mentioning it makes me want to play it 15:59:05 |Blade: Mac users get a better version than the rest. 15:59:57 <|Blade> Yeah, I played it on an ancient Mac originally; unfortunately, I no longer have access to one 16:00:13 * dpeg shuns the rotten Apple. 16:01:18 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 16:01:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:47 -!- neunon has quit [Changing host] 16:01:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:52 well, i know some that I liked to play a lot, dpeg 16:02:59 tell me 16:03:26 have to remember :D 16:03:28 btw, I am also interested in browser games suitable for a bright 8-year old. It's a mess to search for them youreslf. 16:04:07 the one i played last, that was Kingdom Rush, it wasn't bad, quite challenging sometimes: http://armorgames.com/play/12141/kingdom-rush 16:04:24 names suffice, I'll find them -- thanks! 16:05:21 dpeg: Protector III was also quite nice - with elemental damage/protection 16:05:31 oh, i see there is IV and IV.V out now :D 16:05:37 something to do at work tomorrow ;) 16:05:50 :) 16:05:56 you don't happen to have an iOS device, dpeg? 16:06:41 is that the evil i? 16:06:45 of course I don't! 16:06:46 yes 16:08:23 pity, because "Defender Chronicles" is one of my favorites - not sure it's out for other OSses though 16:08:33 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:03 pity, ios only 16:09:44 yes, just searched for it 16:09:58 fantasy style, very difficult 16:10:05 I have been using a friend's i machine to play 100 Rogues :) 16:10:14 ah 16:10:27 oh, apropos - have you decided about roguelike radio yet? 16:11:01 yes, I said I'll do it 16:11:21 recording session should be early January -- gives me some time to buy a decent microphone 16:11:47 sennheiser ist dein freund :) 16:12:09 hey, I have quite good sennheiser Kopfhrer 16:12:52 agreed, me too :) 16:13:10 but nowadays i prefer one-sided headsets 16:13:30 so i have one ear free to hear what's going on in the house ;) 16:13:53 if you need someone for testing, let me know 16:13:55 I almost always use in-ear phones. 16:14:13 Except when I was working this summer. 16:14:14 been using voip for ages now, when there was no skype yet, only h323 ;) 16:14:36 dpeg on rl radio :D 16:14:45 \o/ 16:15:26 Died with Cursed Weapon; TAB for new unarmed character, weapon skill is available to train (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4934) by XuaXua 16:16:30 wow, spaceward ho is 30$? 16:16:45 that would be the most expensive game i bought for quite a while 16:17:22 Napkin: I listen to music with my headphones ... onesided won't do, I want to not hear what's going on elsewhere :) 16:17:37 hehe, i understand :) 16:17:37 Napkin: you can find it somewhere for ... less 16:17:53 varsovie: I won't ever listen to it myself, promised 16:27:50 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:47 -!- neunon has quit [Changing host] 16:31:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:26 ?? Nausea 16:32:26 nausea[1/2]: New status effect in 0.10, replaces sickness from contaminated chunks (but not sickness from other sources). While it is active, you can't eat unless you are starving (and you only get half nutrition then). 16:32:40 ??nausea[2] 16:32:42 nausea[2/2]: iirc, sartre suggested it was a feeling that something is and isn't there at the same time but it turns out this was a symptom of existential angst, the need to define a meaning for one's own life 16:33:00 Napkin: you can cure it with !curing 16:33:12 healing, you mean? 16:33:31 didn't we rename the potion? 16:33:42 not sure 16:33:48 first trunk game in years 16:34:11 so nausea doesn't time out, you mean? 16:34:11 Napkin: ?/i "cur" 16:34:16 Napkin: oh, sure it does 16:35:08 Napkin: usually, you can rest up health and proceed with what you're doing 16:35:49 nice replacement for sickness 16:36:02 it doesn't lower stats, right? 16:36:22 Napkin: Nope, just stops you from eating. 16:36:31 Sickness is still in, just not from eating. 16:36:32 halleluja :) 16:40:57 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 16:45:21 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 16:59:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:40 Segmentation Fault in monster::friendly() (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4935) by CommanderC 17:10:24 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 17:10:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:38 -!- varsovie has left ##crawl-dev 17:29:07 -!- |Blade has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:29:29 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:18 -!- varsovie has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:22 -!- |Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:12 -!- |Blade has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:41:18 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:35 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:29 -!- |Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:17 <|Blade> So, kitty just froze (happens to me frequently). Usually I can just reopen and start from exactly the same place. This time, though... 18:02:18 <|Blade> "Couldn't terminate one of your stale Crawl Stone Soup 0.9.0 processes gracefully. Force its termination? y/n 18:02:22 <|Blade> What should I do? 18:02:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:02 <|Blade> (asked on ##crawl; they told me to come here) 18:07:10 -!- hayenne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:28 Elrohim the Ninja (L26 SpEn) (D:18) 18:15:46 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:10 linux? 18:19:34 <|Blade> windows. It resolved itself. 18:20:37 KK, you must shutdown the last process (y) 18:30:21 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:49 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:00 Yo 18:35:28 03Cryp71c * r75c1e25f52ee 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix "helpless" property labeling 18:41:08 -!- |Blade has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:47 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:19 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:45 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:18 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-2011111804 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 19:22:37 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:05 -!- Fyren has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:15 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:56 I'm eternally disappointed Wiglaf doesn't drop his hat. 19:54:16 It should be first priority of development. 19:56:23 only the tile has a hat. this is sort of similar to how norris used to have a surfboard 19:57:18 His description mentions the hat. 19:57:38 oh, ok 19:57:54 maybe he glued it to his head 19:57:54 His description pretty much is the hat, actually. 20:00:07 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:01:13 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:24 Whoever removed "Can see invisible" from ghost descriptions...please add it back, that is all. 20:01:46 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:55 as a side note, ghosts will always have "somewhat resistant" regardless of their actual mr 20:02:53 s/somewhat/slightly 20:05:53 i think it's a ghost_demon thing 20:06:04 lack of see invis display is, at least# 20:06:14 -# 20:06:48 well the ghost that killed cryp71c didn't have see invis actually 20:06:51 given that the ghost was yellow i dont think it actually could see him 20:06:57 so do we know that that is bugged 20:07:18 I know spriggan ghosts don't say they can see invis in their description. 20:07:33 while we are listing bugs with player ghosts, though, I think it is still true that spriggan and centaur and boots of running ghosts get higher action speed instead of just higher movement speed? 20:08:09 well, so do monster spriggans and centaurs :P 20:08:46 naga ghosts get lower action speed though, I think? 20:09:05 ponderous ghosts and illusions are never slowed, also 20:09:11 (and monster nagas do not) 20:09:16 monsters are ponderousproof, yeah 20:11:05 By reading up on the developing guides in the docs\develop, learning syntax and all that, would that cover how to ultimately create a hat and submit it as a patch? 20:12:21 a hat? 20:12:26 the only enemy that can even wear hats is gastronok 20:12:42 HangedMan: A hat. 20:12:42 Equippable item. 20:13:00 i don't think wiglaf would be able to wear a hat 20:13:10 I guess you can make wiglaf drop a hat, but making him actually wear it would take more work 20:13:11 without a bunch of reworking stuff 20:13:13 Does that make him unable to have a chance of dropping it? 20:13:19 isn't the stuff for nikola and maurice and the draconians and gastronok and etc etc etc all hackery stuff 20:13:19 since he already has armour and a shield 20:13:27 yes, nikola wears gloves as a shield 20:13:39 and his cloak as armour 20:13:43 Sooo, they actually have to wear it to be able to drop it? 20:13:44 actually making monsters have armour slots would be a mess, wouldn't it 20:14:04 @??wiglaf ; cap 20:14:04 Wiglaf (08q) | Speed: 10 | HD: 17 | Health: 140 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(113) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2270 | Sp: might, haste. 20:14:10 try that and see if he drops a cap 20:14:29 except give him all his other equipment too 20:20:47 Every time I get a new life goal they seem to be crushed within 5 minutes of research. 20:21:20 Gave up on Wighat already? 20:24:15 If it gives actual developers trouble, I don't see the possibility of me implementing it even within the relative distant future. 20:26:04 making armour slots not hack-ish sounds like an understandable eventual goal, though 20:26:17 unorthodox armour slots not hack-ish, I mean 20:32:02 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:06 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:01 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:56 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:44 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:45:36 -!- the_glow1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:47 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:50 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:39 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:57 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:12:59 A goblin comes into view. it is wielding a runed dagger. 22:12:59 _A goblin comes up the stairs. 22:15:54 ... that's just one goblin 22:16:14 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:28 _There is Some deep water here. 22:34:36 SamB: stair arrival is fucked 22:41:19 due, result of ucc or was occurring before? 22:42:04 Cryp71c: no, I think it always was before 22:42:16 Cryp71c: the whole concept of seen contexts/just seen etc is rubbish 22:42:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:23 Gah this is such an awesome song!! 22:43:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:22 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:02 -!- Pingas has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:30 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev