00:01:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-474-g3a21b26 (32) 00:03:08 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-474-g3a21b26 (32) 00:14:23 -!- Guest76793 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:19 -!- Guest76793 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:44 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:59 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:25 it so confusing how tiles have names like "WALL_HALL_DARKGRAY" but colours have names like "darkgrey" 00:49:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:04:45 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:05:15 Logged in and lost 2 levels of stealth (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4495) by so 01:18:08 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:59 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:34:17 !tell dpeg to the contrary: I consider -cTele when you don't have the orb in your hands anymore to be a (questionable) bug. What exactly is stopping the control? You having had touched it some time before? I don't buy the argument about apportation, too. 01:34:17 kilobyte: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 01:36:57 !tell Eronarn shouldn't servitors be enabled for spawning in the Abyss? They'd fit well with all the rest of rare monsters (like daevas, hellephants, DDs, ...) 01:36:57 kilobyte: OK, I'll let Eronarn know. 01:42:28 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:52 moin 01:57:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:57:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:24 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Quit: GreatZebu] 02:02:16 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:58:47 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:08 oops 03:06:35 compilation of mingw binaries failed 03:07:33 and i really don't remember removing libz-dev... 03:08:12 makefile changes? 03:10:33 help! :) 03:11:01 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:23 hm 03:12:28 kilobyte? could you help me with the mingw build? it seems the contribs are no longer compiled before rltriles 03:12:51 due! :) 03:13:02 *rltiles 03:13:08 that's odd 03:13:46 or 03:13:53 since the build yesterday failed, too 03:14:05 rltiles is no longer using the contrib libpng 03:14:28 that /is/ weird 03:15:34 cc3e1d6d18422b946b? 03:15:53 No, perhaps not 03:16:22 Hm, it's trying to find sdl via pkg-config on my machine. 03:16:45 sorry, I don't know enough about the build system :( 03:16:47 ok, it's definitely the second case 03:17:49 yes, reverting cc3e1d6d18422b946bc121a912553cca4db2549c helped 03:18:43 :) 03:19:23 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:37 !tell greatzebu hey man, we need to fiddle with cc3e1d6d - it breaks mingw cross-compiles 03:19:37 Napkin: OK, I'll let greatzebu know. 03:29:34 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:59 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:00 Large wizard prison vault (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4496) by evilmike 03:32:47 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-474-g3a21b26 03:34:26 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:04 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:45 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:46:59 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:48:30 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:48:38 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:49:31 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:51:10 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 03:57:01 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 04:01:44 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 04:08:38 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-462-g36372f4 04:11:12 Game crashes when leaving a treasure trove (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4497) by AStranger 04:16:01 * cx1213 is testing the ppc mac verion 04:32:32 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:38:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:40:22 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:48:22 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:49 -!- Twinge has quit [] 04:55:35 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:26 Spawning oklobs in view (using LUA) causes message spam (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4498) by mumra 05:00:39 the ppc version is working 05:01:24 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:01:34 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:06:43 Controlled teleport interrupted by HUP signal, cancelling teleport. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4499) by mikee 05:11:06 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:25 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 05:13:28 03kilobyte * rbe71a1c576cf 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 3 dirs): ontoclasm's profane tile for servitors. 05:13:28 03kilobyte * r82338ad5cfd2 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/Makefile: Rename CXX in rltiles to HOSTCXX. Breaks Mac autobuilds :( 05:14:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:21:45 kilobyte: did you get a chance to fix letter_to_index? 05:22:51 it's a matter of not using that temp var 05:23:17 I wasn't sure what the intent was 05:24:55 I'm presuming just having returns instead of changing temp variables was the intended effect 05:36:33 it was supposed to detect invalid values 05:37:23 right 05:37:27 I just checked: every single use but one check isaalpha() before, so I'll guard that one use and make letter_to_index() assert 05:37:38 okay ): 05:37:45 *:) 05:37:50 man my typing is naff tonight 05:49:19 ?? petrify 05:49:21 petrify[1/2]: Level 4 transmutation/earth spell found in the book of hinderance and stalking. Useful for annoying monsters with low MR. Works nicely with LRD and stabbing. 05:52:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:47 kilobyte:? 05:54:49 HOSTCXX tool/tile_colour.o 05:54:49 HOSTCXX tool/tile.o 05:54:49 CXX util/levcomp.lex.o 05:54:49 HOSTCXX tool/tile_page.o 05:54:49 --- 05:54:50 that's correct, right? util/levcomp.lex.o to be compiled with CXX? 05:54:50 I think so 05:54:50 apart from that - the commit you did fixed the mingw builds 05:54:50 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:51 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:22:18 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:56:49 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:02:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:08:47 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:46 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 07:23:25 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 07:28:00 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 07:31:30 AStranger (L27 CeEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Elf:2) 07:33:42 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:36 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 07:38:01 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:04 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 07:39:30 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 07:39:36 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:58 -!- tester8372 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:09 hello 07:45:27 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:43 hello 07:45:47 sorry to bother 07:45:50 hi 07:45:53 non-door tile? 07:46:08 wut? 07:46:16 sorry i don't understand 07:46:22 14:37:51 < Gretell> tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 07:46:47 due: hi! 07:46:47 oh wow you are fast 07:46:47 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:46:54 !messages 07:46:55 (1/1) kilobyte said (6h 12m 37s ago): to the contrary: I consider -cTele when you don't have the orb in your hands anymore to be a (questionable) bug. What exactly is stopping the control? You having had touched it some time before? I don't buy the argument about apportation, too. 07:47:20 okay, so we should discuss this when most everyone is around 07:47:25 !messages 07:47:25 No messages for tester8372. 07:47:45 tester8372: yes, that is an interesting error message. 07:48:08 tester8372: it shouldn't occur outside of vaults 07:48:24 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:33 due, tester8372: it's already fixed, Webtiles just needs an upgrade 07:48:33 edlothiol: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:49:07 Napkin: yes, please update webtiles 07:49:54 ok thanks (i guess, i didn't understand exactly what happened XD ) 07:59:37 edlothiol: ah, cool 07:59:42 edlothiol: <3! 08:01:38 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:34 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:07 03mumra * r3a1f95c63df9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/fedhas_garden.des: Fedhas garden: reduced message spam, tweaked timings, fixed tree message, fixed fruit 08:14:14 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:38 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:21 kilobyte: servitors showing up in the abyss is fine by me, since holies do 08:20:21 Eronarn: You have 35 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:20:59 wow, that's a lot of messages 08:20:59 i just don't want them placed 'everywhere' 08:21:05 e.g., crypt 08:21:14 a crypt ending with one as the boss could be cool though 08:22:02 by that time, it's time for ancient liches to do the bossy stuff, I guess 08:23:20 there's already one with a bone dragon as boss, isn't there? 08:23:57 Swamp 08:28:46 so how does draining work with the new xp mechanic, anyways 08:30:14 interesting ... can anyone confirm that the _terse_cloud_names and _verbose_cloud_names arrays in clouds.cc have to match the order of the cloud_type enum in enum.h? 08:30:29 they do 08:30:41 yes 08:31:05 i think there's a problem with version bump; CLOUD_PETRIFY is at a different position in the enum (depending on #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 32) 08:31:23 but, in the _terse_cloud_names, there's no #if, "calcifying dust" is just at the end 08:31:28 heh, cute 08:31:43 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 08:32:07 03dpeg * r85d86abf5405 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large.des: Imprisoned wizards vaults (evilmike); #4496. 08:32:21 so my guess is, once TAG_MAJOR_VERSION > 32, all kinds of cloud-related problems would happen (particularly in vaults) 08:41:22 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 08:41:40 let's try to update webtiles then 08:45:55 actually, i have to do shopping first, sorry 08:48:05 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:20 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:48:21 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 09:15:16 hm, no replies on the implementables poll _:( 09:20:26 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:40:40 tester8372 (L9 DrVM) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:8) 09:46:34 dpeg: maybe sticky it? 09:47:11 mumra: you could reply :) I'm really curious what people think about the topics. Including patchers! 09:47:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:30 perhaps my rant was too long and nobody dares to answer anymore :| 09:49:22 dpeg: yeah i've been looking at the implementables on mantis working out what i like most. i wonder if there isn't actually enough on there for people to get their teeth into? 09:49:27 mumra: your garden patch is in, many thanks! There are still issues with the messages. It'd suffice to print only the very first exclusion message, but we'd need a specific (and new) switch for that. 09:49:49 cool, i saw :) also posted a bug about the exclusion messages 09:50:05 mumra: that is quite possible the case. We're trying to add them as ideas come up. If something seems missing, don't hesitate to inquire about it. 09:50:34 dpeg: there's no actual implementable about spider branch itself (only vaults), or hellspider 09:51:06 mumra: I like to have a mixture of interface/gameplay and easy/harder stuff. No idea what a really sexy topic would be, though (I hope that Wensley's post gives some clues about this). 09:51:31 mumra: I am not sure if the hellspider is implementable material. I'd like to see kilobyte or galehar address this one. 09:52:18 mumra: if you reply witha list of things that should be Implementable-ed, in your opinion, that'd help a lot 09:52:22 dpeg: i thought rolling boulder beetle was pretty sexy. but now it's 95% implemented anyway 09:52:27 ok 09:52:38 mumra: yeah, Keskitalo should get around to revising the patch. 09:53:09 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:33 dpeg: i've been working some more on it, and merged it up to latest trunk, will post on mantis after a couple more tweaks 09:54:27 dpeg: but yeah regarding the implementables thread, maybe those first two posts are a bit huge and scary :) 09:55:54 cool 09:56:10 mumra: yes, that'd why it'd be good if someone added desired content to the thread :) 09:58:36 so, does anyone know where the manual on setting up dgamelaunch resides? 10:07:50 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:28 in the repo, Wensley 10:11:41 but maybe you'd like to use greensnark's scripts? 10:11:48 which also contain my scripts? 10:12:01 Napkin: I'd like to use whichever version you patched to allow the server to push the dgl output to a file 10:12:19 well, you can patch the dgl later 10:12:30 but for all the scripts around dgl, you should probably use his repo 10:12:41 is that the github one? 10:12:44 https://github.com/greensnark/dgamelaunch-config 10:12:59 http://git.develz.org/?p=dgamelaunch.git;a=summary 10:18:20 Napkin: this man page says that I should be using adduser instead of useradd on debian, are there any other debian-specific tools I should be using? 10:18:36 adduser isn't really debian specific? 10:18:39 many ;) 10:19:43 ghallberg: :P just quoting the man page: "useradd is a low level utility for adding users. On Debian, administrators should usually use adduser(8) instead." 10:20:04 That probaly goes for most distros really. 10:20:05 adduser does additional things compared to plain useradd 10:20:18 And is more userfriendly. 10:20:25 Comes as default on arch I think. 10:20:53 dpeg: TDHS is more of a design issue 10:21:08 also, should I be enabling some sort of hardening like selinux or apparmor? 10:24:19 dpeg: the question "how big upgrades should be" can be modified later but it'd be good to have something for a start 10:25:20 dpeg: also, we'd need to know how much "transdimensional" it should be, as opposed to five ordinary spiders with a funky name 10:25:50 dpeg / Wensley: it's actually pretty hard coming up with a list; it's very easy to say "feature xyz would be cool", but asking "which feature would most make the game more enjoyable vs actual developer effect" is much much harder! 10:26:10 hopefully, other forumers are taking their time as well 10:28:04 dpeg: for example: going the transdimensional way would make it "shifts away to the Abyss in its death throes" or such, explaining that the one on Spider:2 is the same creature that just got better 10:28:14 but not sure how far you'd want to go there 10:28:45 mumra: no need to really spend much time weighing the cost in developer time of each feature; if a developer doesn't have enough time to implement a feature, he can simply continue on down the list. obviously a feature such as "a proper client/server model to enable users to watch games in either tiles or console" would be a tremendous effort, but knowing that the community might value such... 10:28:47 ...a feature could help jump-start it 10:28:55 another idea, always teleporting to stairs (any stairs) you approach if it wasn't already in LOS 10:36:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:34 Wensley: no, I get the point; I guess I just can't stop the project management part of my brain weighing up the costs :) 10:37:42 ha :) 10:38:05 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:45 !coffee GreatZebu 10:38:46 * Henzell hands GreatZebu a pot of irish coffee, brewed by Yredelemnul. 10:39:17 hi Wensley :-) 10:39:17 GreatZebu: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:39:21 !messages 10:39:21 (1/2) Napkin said (7h 19m 44s ago): hey man, we need to fiddle with cc3e1d6d - it breaks mingw cross-compiles 10:40:20 back 10:41:32 kilobyte: I agree. This is why it's not Implementable stuff. Will need fresh ideas all the time and going back and forth. 10:42:27 kilobyte: I am undecided on the TD part. We can completely leave it out, have just some cosmetic nod towards TD, or try to fully incorporate it. 10:42:58 kilobyte: I am convinced that the idea of a guaranteed, adapting opponent can be very interesting. 10:44:23 !messages 10:44:23 (1/1) Napkin said (4h 49m 50s ago): 82338ad5cfd2 fixed the mingw problem, but may have broken the osx builds - please verify 10:53:45 mumra: perhaps it's too complicated... maybe we should just list the three items coolest to us? 10:57:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:53 kilobyte: would you be interesting in doing a spell count for players in the tourney? I'm curious 11:00:07 interested* 11:17:27 dpeg: could be more straightforward, and achieve pretty much the same - people could always list more if they wanted 11:17:41 i've nearly finished posting anyway, just been on a trawl through the wiki and forums 11:22:12 03dolorous * r74ba56894442 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Tweak profane servitor description a bit; angels are (in this case, were) TSO's. 11:22:47 a suggested limit would be fine, but I'd rather not impose a hard limit on the number of items in the list 11:26:33 to me its not really the posts that are intimidating 11:26:45 its the amount of work involved in reading up on stuff on the wiki 11:30:52 this is meant to be a serious, productive topic. let them do a little legwork if they want to make valuable contributions. :) 11:31:25 separate the wheat from the chaff, and all that 11:31:54 yeah that took me a while 11:32:08 but maybe it'll get the ball rolling 11:32:19 uh ... boulder rolling? 11:33:34 mumra = wheat 11:33:53 lol 11:34:57 definitely you shouldn't enable any form of "hardening" 11:35:03 Wensley 11:35:14 oh really? 11:35:21 that'll just make it more difficult for you ;) 11:35:36 I see :) 11:39:51 Stable branch on tiles.crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.9.0-27-g8a39726 (32) 11:39:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:37 dpeg: could you make that tavern post into a sticky? 11:54:52 -!- gnsh has quit [] 11:56:16 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:32 Wensley: okay 11:56:43 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:57 Wensley: don't know how :O 11:58:08 ha :) maybe ask galehar? 11:58:36 once he's around 11:59:24 st__: I did grab the whole set of data from CAO, it took several days of wgetting. The same from CDO can be done in minutes. 11:59:47 st__: I did not get around to actually analyzing it, though 12:00:35 st__: previous times, I wrote ad-hoc scripts, so this time I planned to parse everything and feed it to SQL 12:00:58 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:19 like, every game has a list of spells, armour, skills, etc 12:01:39 Napkin: thanks! i'm not stucked anymore! :D 12:01:41 bye 12:01:42 johnnyzero the Charmwright (L1 DESk) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 52) (D:1) 12:02:16 glad, tester8372 12:02:20 -!- tester8372 has quit [] 12:03:39 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:42 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:03 !lg * killer=wiglaf x=ckiller 12:04:04 87. [ckiller=Wiglaf] nmf the Metallomancer (L23 DgEE), slain by Wiglaf (a +1,+4 dwarven broad axe of chopping) on Elf:3 on 2011-09-03, with 397214 points after 89844 turns and 6:22:10. 12:04:06 :D 12:04:12 which post, dpeg, Wensley? 12:04:28 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:44 Napkin: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2474 12:05:40 done 12:06:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:07:17 Napkin: cool 12:07:23 let's hope the thread will be good 12:07:33 wordpress post to link to it! ;) 12:09:33 -!- Elynae has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:23 Napkin: ah, will do 12:11:36 at the very bottom, you can convert a post to a link 12:14:17 -!- Guest76793 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:30 -!- Elynae has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:53 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:19 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest90088 12:19:43 !tell edlothiol sorting works, but last only until an update of the lobby table is forced by server.py 12:19:44 Napkin: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 12:20:28 o/ 12:20:29 -!- Napkin has left ##crawl-dev 12:20:48 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:58 oops, left wrong channel :D 12:25:33 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:29 it seems like the sorting resets every time there's an update 12:33:42 yeah, i !told edlothiol already 12:33:45 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:54 btw, shouldn't we reduce the spam on ##crawl? 12:34:12 how so? 12:34:25 I mean, most people who are bothered by the spam just mute the bots 12:34:51 although, yes, if webtiles gets more and more popular the spam will only grow 12:35:12 actually, I was thinking about this... perhaps there could be a dedicated bot for announcing webtiles games 12:35:35 I was going to call it "Wenzell" from webtiles + henzell (secretly it is just named after me) 12:35:59 hehe 12:36:13 :) 12:36:17 dedicated it not so good, if a server is down 12:36:24 also, if edlothiol wants to avoid duplicating work, he can repurpose my player-status code 12:36:31 or the connection between server and dedicated bot down 12:36:53 or I can just make a version of the player-status page that only references webtiles games that he could iframe, it would be a trivial change 12:36:57 he probably already did, Wensley 12:37:04 the problem is, that it's live status 12:37:13 not just updated every minute 12:37:20 my status updates every 36 seconds, thank you :P 12:37:24 lol 12:37:40 live = player moves from D1 to D2 -> update 12:37:46 ah, I see 12:37:48 that's cool 12:38:36 yeah, but that seems to cause the lose-sorting problem at the moment 12:38:49 he'll fix it when he's back 12:38:55 or you could, Wensley! 12:39:00 I really hope he's not basing his version of the page on my player-status code from before I refactored it 12:39:06 crawl-ref/source/webserver/* 12:39:17 oh ho 12:39:24 server.py is the webtiles daemon 12:39:57 in static & template there are the javascript/html files 12:40:28 CDO is running crawl from 0.9 and server.py&rest from master 12:41:11 {% for running_game in running_games %} <-- what language is this? 12:41:19 jquery, i believe 12:41:46 odd, never seen jquery syntax like that 12:42:03 or is it python? 12:42:09 definitely not python 12:42:19 it's just in the lobby.html file 12:42:57 no, there are more if constructs like that 12:43:07 in the other html files as well 12:43:27 I didn't mean to imply exclusion :P 12:43:47 oops :-P 12:44:03 hey 12:44:19 it could be, that it's some tornado-specific 12:44:30 yes, I was going to ask what framework you were using 12:44:34 that would make sense 12:44:46 sind in server.py there are lines like render(client.html, username=bla) 12:48:18 s/sind/ :-O 12:50:55 I think it's a little weird that he's having cdo host jquery rather than use microsoft's or google's public CDNs 12:51:21 it's not really a huge file though 12:52:15 Napkin: I have a fix for the mac build process that accounts for the cross-compilation changes from earlier 12:52:39 there shouldn't be any interruption of the mac nightlies; I'll post the makefile patch on mantis 13:00:54 so, how often was 0.9 downloaded? 13:03:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:10 Wensley: it's https - so you do not want to link to unencrypted sites or foreign sites 13:05:19 and it's more reliable to host it locally 13:05:27 I see 13:05:28 GreatZebu: awesome :) 13:05:57 but yeah, 200gb traffic just for webtiles last month 13:06:08 03kilobyte * r90e1f5819811 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc items.cc l_item.cc stuff.cc): Unrevert and fix index_to_letter() checks, make them stricter. 13:06:08 03kilobyte * r0dfd21055f75 10/crawl-ref/source/l_crawl.cc: Lua function crawl.dpr() to print messages in debug builds only. 13:06:08 03kilobyte * r46dafc84b7bc 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/layout.des: layout_delve: don't spam during regular games. 13:06:16 03kilobyte * re91e4ef86fef 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Ashenzari + octopodes: make 5/6 RC turn into Curse Jewels. 13:06:16 03kilobyte * ra8768fd11e36 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/des/builder/layout.des dungeon.cc): As a test, make a delve+webs level on D:13. 13:06:39 Curse Jewels?! 13:13:30 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:46 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:48 Fix rltiles build for mac nightlies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4500) by GreatZebu 13:15:32 Wensley: Curse Jewellery scrolls 13:16:31 oh, that's much less exciting :( 13:16:48 I thought that ashenzari was compacting your scrolls into an evocable jewel 13:18:59 -!- upsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:14 specially made for octopodes? 13:22:23 :) 13:31:22 I wasn't entirely certain :P 13:44:13 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:39 Hmmmm, why are there no werewolves in crawl? 13:49:06 Like, you're fighting a human wizard, and after taking some damage he turns into a warg 14:08:09 ghallberg: what would that add to the game? 14:08:31 An unknown element when fighting humans I guess. 14:08:50 it could be nice for a unique 14:08:53 Since you don't know that they are werewolves when you start the fight. 14:08:57 most humans you fight are uniques or vault guards, really 14:08:58 Galefury: Or a vult maybe. 14:08:59 it forces you to mix up your tactics in the middle of the fight 14:09:17 I'd like a werewolf infested town vault :D 14:09:26 werewolves in a vault is fine, if a little spoiler-y 14:09:30 !tell edlothiol currently init_user is not executed when a new player registers, as that doesn't go through login(). please fix :) 14:09:30 Napkin: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 14:09:45 or as a monster that can switch between an equipment-using form and a monstrous form 14:11:08 Yeah, mechanically I like the idea. 14:11:24 But it was mostly just a favorite monster I realied wasn't in the game :) 14:13:39 or as a monster that can switch between an equipment-using form and a monstrous form <-- NetHack werewolves work like that 14:13:48 they can also werewolvise players, but only in monstrous form 14:14:07 you can normally detect one at a distance by the repeated clanking of falling armour, if the howls don't give it away 14:14:25 Why We Don't Like Werewolves: D&D. Nethack. Lycantrophy is no fun, it is a serious disease -- consult a doctor. 14:14:45 at least NetHack has plenty of cures, some rarer than others 14:15:40 dpeg: mtg's new expansion is all gothic horror, and one of the things in it is werewolves... to accomodate them, they had to make cards that have rules on both sides! 14:16:04 wut 14:16:06 is that a joke 14:16:18 sounds like an unhinged card 14:16:22 Eronarn: what a sorry thing to hear... I guess that happens if you try to extend the boundaries of your universe for two decades (or is three?) 14:16:59 just going on 20 years 14:18:07 Pokemon suffers similarly... the basic game is good, but the CCG concept forces designers to invent new, shiny stuff perpetuously (sp?) all the time. Very often, this is just inelegant. (That's a different complaint than about the power spiral which those games also inevitably suffer from.) 14:19:34 I don't think MTG has totally jumped the shark yet, but this is kind of odd. 14:19:42 s/perpetuously/in perpetuity 14:20:02 I don't see why they couldn't use the splt vard concept again though. 14:20:30 Wensley: thanks 14:20:54 it's a fairly esoteric phrase, though :) 14:23:57 there's always the perpetuum mobile! 14:27:58 dpeg: i like your auto-annotation implementable 14:28:04 ghallberg: they wrote about why - there were some problems with it 14:28:16 if i get some extra time this weekend i'll try to code it up 14:28:47 GreatZebu: Thanks! The ghost part is easy, the uniques need a little care. But I find myself browsing though ?: from time to time, and that shouldn't be necessary. 14:29:00 dpeg: IIRC, most of the cards in Pokémon TCG are nonviable anyway 14:29:02 which helps a bit 14:29:05 yeah, exactly 14:29:44 i'm not sure how to handle uniques that fall through shafts yet, but i think the rest is relatively ok 14:29:45 ais523: higher frequency than in other CCGs? 14:29:55 I think so 14:30:09 I can't be certain, though 14:30:20 but the top decks tend to be remarkably similar 14:30:23 more so than in, say, M:tG 14:30:28 ais523: I'd be surprised. From time to time, my son buys a magazine about CCGs, and duds seem to be ubiquitious. 14:30:46 ais523: but I never investigated the matter properly 14:30:51 they are, but it's a difference between, say, 80% and 95% dud 14:30:56 GreatZebu: just remove the annotation when the unique is seen elsewhere? 14:33:27 dpeg: i was thinking of removing the annotation when they fall through and adding a new one when you see them again, but i could go either way on that one 14:33:46 GreatZebu: that's hidden information, cannot do it 14:34:41 as in, if they fall through offscreen? 14:35:06 yes 14:35:22 if you see them fall, remove the annotation, of course (same for banishment) 14:35:35 ok, i can get behind that 14:35:55 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:09 03kilobyte * r5602fed78dac 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cmd-keys.h cmd-name.h command.cc directn.cc directn.h enum.h): A new command: "pick item at cursor" (xg). 14:37:06 kilobyte: isn't this what ; does? 14:37:09 GreatZebu: cool! 14:37:15 jpeg will love you (it was her idea) 14:37:32 ; takes item at your position, xg goes elsewhere 14:37:38 ah 14:38:07 how to move to the next item in LOS when in x mode? 14:38:14 sorry, *move the cursor 14:38:15 x*g scratches my personal itch, there are other uses too 14:38:25 * 14:38:29 roger, cool 14:40:08 if there are monsters in view, it'll mark it for autopickup so you can retreat and not forget it later 14:40:19 kilobyte: just read the commit message. I'd try xg like any other autopickupable item. I.e. do nothing when autopick is off. 14:40:23 yes 14:41:02 dpeg: it currently marks it for autopickup and issues a "x." to that place 14:41:31 with autopickup off, it will go there and do nothing 14:41:37 not sure if that's what we want 14:41:50 kilobyte: sounds exactly right to me 14:41:55 ok 14:44:32 beh, a bug: if you "xg" your position, it will mark the item for pickup but do nothing until you move back and forth, press o or ; 14:45:04 and already rebuilding CDO (so I could play a pre-Nemelexite without gnashing teeth :p) 14:45:06 why not "x.;"? 14:45:17 hm, no 14:45:26 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-485-g5602fed (32) 14:46:14 yeah, i dunno. it's complicated 14:46:59 BTW, the optimal play for chars that want to go Nemelex is to gather all junk, dropping them in piles only upon getting burdened; this saves you hoovering twice 14:47:05 seems quite degenerated 14:47:08 kilobyte: yes 14:47:19 the same for wanna-be Elyvilonites 14:47:51 of course, the feature I just added has other uses -- you'll often want to take an item that autoexplore announced without having to navigate there by hand 14:49:01 dpeg: and TSO/Zinnites: you can get free 30 piety by going Ely, hoovering until the 45 piety mark then switching to your target god 14:49:57 I've thought about the matter, but I cannot see a way to prevent the early collecting. 14:50:02 kilobyte: I think it would be nice if there was a dedicated key for "pickup item that autoexplore has just announced", but not sure how you'd handle coming into sight of two items at once 14:50:13 kilobyte: that's another, valid issue 14:50:37 Wensley: that's a very old idea, but as you just see, hard to come up with specifics :) Hence no implementable. 14:51:32 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:50 Wensley: what I just added lets you bind x*g to get almost that: if there's another item closer, it will take that rather than what autoexplore said 14:51:51 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:41 kilobyte: what about the ability to mark items for autopickup from the ^X menu, so that you can just mark all the items in sight that you want, and then autoexplore once to pick them up? 14:53:00 Wensley: not sure it's really worth ut 14:53:19 yeah, are there really that many items you really want to pick up that aren't on autopickup anyway? :P 14:53:20 one of the many interface ideas, where there is improvement, but it's small and possibly not worth the trouble 14:53:44 Switching autopickup status in-game on the other hand.... :) 14:53:58 beh, in practice, doesn't work so good: there's often a corpse closer to the new item 14:54:16 if I just massacred all of orc:4 in a huge pile of items, then it would be handy to get all the glowing robes and weapons :) 14:55:04 bleh, well the problem there isn't with autopickup itself :P 14:55:10 true 14:55:19 Wensley: Ctrl-F ? 14:55:46 I do sort of wish that un-id'd ego items were distinct from un-id'd items that just have pluses 14:55:58 spoiled kids :P 14:56:26 actually i guess that lua extension on mantis sort of fulfils this 14:56:31 The question how to deal with dungeon trash is relevant, of course. (And soon enough, more blue stuff is rubbish.) 14:57:16 i wasn't sure whether to add it, some/lots of it is possibly unnecessary? seems to have some nice functionality though, i'm trying some of it in my config 14:57:46 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4014 that is 14:59:21 MarvinPA_: just reading it, looks good to me 14:59:41 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 14:59:44 The real question is if taking on a god should change options :) 15:00:01 i think he adjusted that in the revised version actually 15:00:55 i'm trying out the ammo autopickup at least, anyway, seems like it could be convenient for hunters 15:01:03 MarvinPA_: what I mean is that a Nemelexite could (by default, option for other behaviour available) automatically walk to items in his ^! list 15:01:20 hmm 15:02:09 haven't played a Nemelexite in ages, not sure how that'd work out 15:02:12 come to think of it, the only thing autoexplore currently doesn't do that i'd like it to would be to autoexplore to corpses when i'm worshipping a sacrifice god 15:02:21 and so that'd be an extension of the same thing for nemelex, yeah 15:02:24 MarvinPA_: that's another example, yes 15:03:00 MarvinPA_: care is needed for Elyvilon: I've said it often, the god should make it clear that a weapon does not give piety (and will not do so anymore) 15:03:22 we really don't want *** Elyvilonites bother with mundane daggers 15:03:43 yeah 15:03:47 dpeg: That seems odd 15:03:54 dtsund: what? 15:04:29 High piety Elyvilon followers could spam healing, then recover piety by returning to previous areas and saccing weapons that wouldn't have done any good before 15:05:43 of course not 15:05:53 as I always point out, we should use maxpiety, not piety 15:06:06 Ah. 15:06:44 I think level would be better; Elyvilon converts could still hoover through the dungeon 15:06:56 dtsund: please explain? 15:06:56 But either way, I think it's counterintuitive. 15:07:18 New Elyvilon convert in the late game, runs through everywhere he's cleared to sacrifice weapons for piety 15:07:34 But I guess that'd be a problem either way. 15:09:14 My goals are these: Unless we decide to scrap weapon sacrifices (which would be a pity, because it is thematic), you should care about cheap stuff (plain daggers, axes etc.) only until *. The god will tell you. On the other hand, evil weapons or very good weapons are accepted throughout. 15:10:42 You can still destroy them, if you want (sometimes this has tactical value). You just cannot expect piety for this (so no randomness in the formula). 15:11:13 That runs into a strange issue of delaying the destruction of an evil weapon resulting in more total piety for the worshipper. 15:12:27 not if evil daggers grant piety for being evil in addition to granting piety for being a dagger only if maxpiety < x 15:13:39 RichardHawk: why? 15:13:50 Wensley: yes 15:14:06 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:15:05 Wensley: That would solve the problem, yes. 15:15:13 Anyone interested in fleshing this out? 15:15:22 I'd help with the details and numbers. 15:15:28 What's wrong with just reducing the piety chance at high piety? 15:15:34 For cheap weapons, anyway 15:15:56 Tedium 15:16:11 If there is a chance, the player sacrifices all of them 15:16:13 I think because even a 1% chance of getting piety from cheap weapons means that people will still vacuum them up 15:16:15 dtsund: players will keep doing it 15:16:24 Wensley: yes, some players will 15:16:25 especially since ely piety doesn't decay 15:16:31 and we should protect them from themselves 15:16:48 btw, do the good gods use exploration instead of chronometric piety already? 15:17:19 dpeg: has artefact pricing been evaluated yet as part of the price overhaul? 15:17:31 Wensley: no, I am waiting for nrook to be back 15:17:55 dtsund: it sounds harsh, but doing it the random way is what I perceive as a design mistake and I expect that Nethack would've done it like that 15:20:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:22 dpeg: has nrook indicated when he'll be back? 15:21:55 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:47 Wensley: he said a month... which might be over by now. I don't worry. At worst, we'll pick up the prices on our own. Do you have ideas? 15:23:24 maybe 15:23:40 I was thinking about it in terms of ely sacrifices 15:23:54 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:27 Wensley: would you write an email to nrook and me? 15:24:30 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:30 but in hindsight basing the piety threshold on the ego/pluses of the item (which are probably unknown to the player) wouldn't really help 15:25:10 dpeg: got a lot of other crawl things on my plate right now, let's give nrook another month or so and pick up pricing then :) 15:25:19 working on setting up a crawl server at the moment 15:25:42 for hosting experimental/prototype builds 15:26:26 squarelos 24/7 15:26:41 then everyone will migrate onto it! 15:27:21 Wensley: cool. Let's remind each other in case we forget. 15:27:30 certainly 15:27:33 MarvinPA: not quite everyone 15:27:40 I would be happy to host a squarelos 24/7 branch 15:27:49 although the server is not particularly beefy :P 15:29:43 Wensley: will you server webtiles? 15:30:05 *serve 15:30:51 dpeg: I've spoken with napkin, and he doesn't seem to think the basic server configuration has the hardware necessary to gracefully handle the load of webtiles 15:31:06 Wensley: what a pity 15:31:11 I'd have to upgrade my server plan, but first I need to pay off these school loans :) 15:31:48 Wensley: several times, we've got questions about how to donate... could use that for server hardware, but I won't set up the financial infrastructure. :) 15:36:07 I guess due-land is currently hit by pings the most. 15:36:48 server needs or problems? 15:38:51 donations would be great, but on the other hand I'd be a little reticent to run a stable version of the game alongside all the unstable versions :P 15:39:53 one of the reasons for this server would be to provide a sandbox so that, say, an unstable version of erocrawl wouldn't take out CAO :P 15:40:35 GreatZebu: the latest build runs fine on ppc not bugs or so 15:40:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:02 cx1213: great, glad to hear it 15:41:24 dpeg: Trog's altar with the moth of wrath: what's the point of 5 worms 1 rat if worms can't berserk? 15:41:30 dpeg, if at any moment you ppl run into a lack of server power, send me an email, I've still got lots to spare for the time being 15:42:51 epyon: do you have a server running crawl? 15:43:02 Wensley: nope 15:43:17 the biggest request right now is a north american server to host webtiles 15:43:46 in that case I can't help, germany based servers here :/ 15:43:50 ha :) 15:44:59 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:21 kilobyte: very good question, I have no idea (it's not my vault). Will you fix? 15:48:18 epyon: Guten Abend! Thanks for the offer. Due to Napkin's CDO, Europe is well equipped (for now, this will change at some point). We really need a Nothern America based server :) 15:48:38 dpeg: I'm polish myself xP 15:48:44 sorry =) 15:48:51 dpeg: is CAO that badly loaded? 15:49:09 * epyon = Kornel Kisielewicz 15:49:36 ... 15:51:23 epyon: I knew at some point... and forgot again. 15:51:31 xD 15:51:39 * dpeg bows. Congrats to new release! 15:51:53 Perhaps we should learn from your approach to donations. It works well? 15:52:13 kilobyte: I've been told that there's no chance CAO can take tiles. 15:52:18 Currently it's around $500/mo 15:52:21 Which is all those Americans want, of course. 15:52:39 But you'd probably could buy a new box from ads alone 15:52:45 epyon: sounds good. Are you developing other games but DoomRL right now? 15:53:03 dpeg: I do, but none of them come close in terms of popularity 15:53:14 and others are yet to be announced 15:53:16 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:32 epyon: oh, I know your games... the implicit question was whether other games also draw donations. 15:53:35 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:55 Jeff Lait uses donations as well... iirc, his experiences match yours. 15:53:59 dpeg: no, not yet, there were only a few AliensRL-targeted donations 15:54:07 We, the fossil, have no idea what money actually is. 15:54:33 epyon: so you're the doomrl guy? some of the folks in ##crawl-offtopic were just adding tiles to doomrl today :P 15:54:39 epyon: ah, they donate and ask you to do something on that one. Do they sometimes donate for a certain feature? 15:55:08 * dpeg is mortally afraid that donations will inhibit our instincts to nerf and say no. 15:55:22 Wensley: tiles for drl are underway 15:55:54 dpeg: there is a bounty system, but its still complete freedom 15:56:17 usually people donate just for the sake of it -- I take hints only 15:56:26 sounds good 15:56:43 and around 50% of the donation amount monthly comes from regular donators 15:56:56 He, like a DoomRL subscription :) 15:57:03 somehow :) 15:57:45 TOP#1-3 are $2200, $1300 and $1100 donated in total 15:58:01 Those are pious individuals :) 15:58:09 which is quite a lot to pay for an ASCII game D: 15:58:21 "I never knew you can make so much money with moving letters." 15:58:29 xD 15:58:43 no ads, please! 15:58:54 most popular indie games end up with some massively-high-paying donations as some sort of publicity stunt 15:59:13 epyon: in case we ever get around to doing something similar, we may approach you. Also thanks for server offer. 15:59:14 But yeah, you definitively should try out donations for server upkeep 15:59:26 ais523: do DoomRL or Nethack count as "popular indie games"? I have no idea. 15:59:35 dpeg: I'm not sure 15:59:54 NetHack has no obvious method to give donations, even though it'd probably get lots if it provided one, even though the devteam aren't doing anything publicly useful 16:00:06 UnNetHack does have a method to give donations, but I think it's too small to attract many 16:00:19 epyon: Some of the changes in 0.9.9.4 were like you'd read my mind for what I'd like to see, so thanks! 16:00:54 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:12 dtsund: you're welcome :) 16:02:02 I don't miss the combat shotgun before Arena roulette. 16:08:51 Perhaps I should make an implementable for all the Elyvilon stuff? Don't think much will happen otherwise. 16:12:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:30 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:23 implementables category works well, dpeg? 16:19:09 dpeg: what's the point in Tome of Destruction costing 2.5k if most people don't pick it from the ground for free? 16:20:03 s/costing.*// 16:22:44 Napkin: depends... some items are patched as soon as they're up, others are not looked at by anyone, it seems. I guess that's the fate and peril of any salesman :) 16:22:56 hehe 16:23:14 be harsh! just assign it to someone who is active ;) 16:23:15 kilobyte: we never got around redoing miscies, and nrook and I didn't touch misc prices either (yet -- this will come, before release). 16:23:27 Napkin: I don't assign, they take it :) 16:24:35 I'd love to see the DG implementable tackled. Shouldn't even be so much work, perhaps it is just not as attractive as I think :) 16:24:37 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/osx-builds-back-on-track#comment-740 <- longest comment award! 16:27:18 Napkin: yeah. I see where he's coming from... we should communicate better. 16:28:30 well, release and tournament were at a time when there was little time and only few active people, as i understood 16:28:41 yes, it was pretty bad 16:28:43 Incidentally, if you're interested in borrowing any code from Light, I've rebuilt the repository, properly cloned this time: https://github.com/dtsund/crawl-light 16:28:47 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:29:23 dtsund: thank you! 16:29:26 I'll start coding work on 0.2 as soon as I can get git to behave. 16:29:45 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:18 Can someone dig up for me how piety gain for Ely weapon sacrifice is computed? 16:33:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 16:33:28 dpeg: godprayer.cc, _destroyed_valuable_weapon() 16:33:42 kilobyte: thanks 16:33:52 * dpeg feels illiterate. 16:34:34 if the weapon is evil, the chance for +1 piety becomes 100% but it's not cumulative with the regular one 16:35:11 kilobyte: sorry to bugger: if the weapon is not evil, the piety gain is either 0 or 1? 16:35:40 (and 1 is just the usual chance to increase piety, which goes down as piety goes up, iiuc) 16:36:23 if the weapon is evil, you won't get more than 1 (and no less) 16:36:49 So it's not possible to get flashy piety bursts, like with Nemelex? 16:37:58 above 100 piety everything is further reduced by 1/3, and again after 150 16:38:10 only for missiles 16:38:27 30 +1 or branded darts give mad piety 16:38:43 I need to check if a stack of missiles is treated in the same as if you'd sac them one by one. (With Nemelex, Haran and I were careful to do it like that.) 16:38:56 kilobyte: yes, I noted when playing. It's not good. 16:39:22 a weapon can give you 1 piety max, missiles have no such limit 16:39:38 Do I get free reign for Elyvilon changes and subsequent implementable? (I'll set up a wiki page for you first.) 16:39:51 I mean, a single dart is limited at +1, but they don't come alone 16:39:58 kilobyte: oh, and does any god apart from Ash already use piety-for-exploration? 16:40:02 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:05 kilobyte: yes, I understand :) 16:41:18 an idea: what if every gold piece of the value has an independent chance of giving +1 piety? 16:41:41 kilobyte: yes, something like that. 16:42:11 this way 1k worth of weapons gives as much piety as 1k missiles, and one great artefact is no longer worse than a pile of daggers 16:42:51 not sure about the "weapons give guaranteed +1 piety below *" part 16:43:33 kilobyte: I didn't mean that. My point is the other way around: from * onwards, weapons with a price below X will never give piety. 16:43:59 yeah 16:44:26 plus a message a la "Elyvilon does not expect you to bother with weapons like this." 16:44:41 so that players know there's no piety point in saccing those weapons 16:45:17 dpeg: I don't know if price alone is necessarily the best determinant of whether piety will be gained. if I see two daggers on the floor, and one is +1 and one is +9, I still have to sacrifice them both because I'm not going to bother id'ing them. we could, though, give elyvilon weapon id'ing like ash has 16:46:09 Print them with a different color if they're worthy 16:46:14 Without spoiling anything else 16:46:37 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:55 that could work 16:47:01 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:08 hm, interesting idea 16:56:20 a pacifist god not rewarding removal of daggers just because youve been with her for a while doesnt make much sense to me 16:56:50 gameplay > realism 16:57:02 i know, but it still seems weird 16:57:05 no 16:57:07 maybe someone can come up with something 16:57:29 Galefury: if you're a *** follower, Elyvilon expects bigger things from you then to pick up every lousy dagger. Pacify Vaults! 16:58:09 well, that makes some sense 16:58:50 If you're a super cop, you're not expected to dabble with parking tickets either, right? 16:58:53 of course youre the only person fighting in the whole damn dungeon, so ely doesnt make much sense at all, but once you accept that it makes sense 17:07:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:09 03GreatZebu * r330a53da2c4d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (makefile rltiles/Makefile): Fix mac rltiles build, accounting for cross-compilation 17:21:29 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:54 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:16 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:25 Divine Vigour undergoes the usual maxMP cap, I see. 17:39:57 kilobyte: still around? 17:42:17 meow? 17:45:09 Where is the special-cased piety gain for evil weapons? 17:46:28 or is it just always +1 for those? 17:47:14 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:47:31 always +1 17:47:35 thanks 17:48:50 !tell due need some lua help if you have time, gonna send you an email 17:48:50 Mu_: OK, I'll let due know. 17:49:01 hi :) 17:49:01 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:49:05 !messages 17:49:05 (1/1) Mu_ said (15s ago): need some lua help if you have time, gonna send you an email 17:49:10 o hi ;p 17:49:11 it is the weekend! 17:49:14 so i am here and have time :D 17:49:22 while you're here: there was some thinking about replacing weapon traps in the wild (i.e. outside vaults) with other types, for example summon traps -- what do you think? 17:50:16 Weapon/net traps are good for something, but randomly placed, they're useful only by accident. Shafts, Zot/alarm traps are always interesting. 17:50:24 sounds interesting 17:51:18 Of course, there are overboarding proposals for summon traps, but I won't go into this right now. Just a question if you folks think that's a good direction to go into. (Marvin and I do, don't know about the others.) 17:52:16 well, weapoin traps are boring. 17:52:31 they give you a hit of damage that can sometimes be avoided but can also potentially kill you. 17:52:49 due: not in the right circumstances: if you know ahead is a minefield (weapon traps), behind you are monsters... but you can only achieve that with maps. 17:53:00 summon traps effectively do damage as well, just not directly 17:53:08 kilobyte: exactly 17:53:14 dpeg: oh, /known/ traps are nice. 17:53:34 Yes, but my main point is that being killed while exploration is unfun. Of course, we can (and should, as always) blame the player, for having too low HP, or T&D given his maxHP. 17:53:44 yes :) 17:54:01 due: not known... if you know there _are_ traps somewhere. Some of my vaults use this. 17:54:02 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:06 Aloha! 17:54:09 03galehar 07mimics * r1fa9bf182d61 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc mon-util.cc mon-util.h): Reveal mimics when you step next to them. 17:54:15 dpeg: well, thhat does as well, too 17:54:19 But it is still unfun. A summon trap would let oyu react, kilobyte. 17:54:20 03galehar 07mimics * r945313838e07 10/crawl-ref/source/ (20 files): Item mimics use the new generation algorithm too. 17:54:20 03galehar 07mimics * reed416b05d2f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (25 files): Clean up all the old mimic code. 17:54:20 03galehar 07mimics * r5f9f78f4a360 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Fix apporting item mimics. 17:54:20 03galehar 07mimics * re249bf138142 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc mon-util.cc): Give enough energy to mimics so they can attack immediately when revealed. 17:54:27 hey 17:54:27 galehar: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:54:31 !messages 17:54:31 (1/2) dpeg said (1d 4h 13m 2s ago): I've been wondering about how to improve Fi, too. The appeal of !might is that they get one good shot of solving an actual problem. I like this, it contains choices. 17:54:40 !messages 17:54:41 (1/1) kilobyte said (1d 4h 8m 52s ago): testing in real games, the colouring of tough and nasty enemies on the side panel appears to be reversed (tough are light red while nasty only dark violet) 17:54:50 galehar (the other already saw this): there was some thinking about replacing weapon traps in the wild (i.e. outside vaults) with other types, for example summon traps -- what do you think? 17:55:12 dpeg: I'm not claiming summon traps are worse than instant damage ones -- they can be more interesting. Just that they're not a silver bullet. 17:55:25 mimics are a bit like traps, maybe t&d should let you spot them 17:55:29 hm 17:55:40 we can start by adding them. We'll see about removing mechanical traps later 17:55:42 kilobyte: absolutely. The precise proposal is to remove random weapon traps, and look for better trap ideas :) 17:55:52 cloud traps would be nice, too 17:55:58 galehar: that's the other direction, also fine with me. 17:56:01 kilobyte: how about yellow for dangerous and red for nasty? 17:56:04 and no-damage needle, random effect traps 17:56:25 due: galehar is doing the mimics :) 17:56:37 galehar: yes, <33 17:56:52 they are almost finished 17:56:54 due: Traps that incapacitate the player in any way but damage are good (reduced stats, rot etc.) 17:57:03 just have to handle the mapdef of new item mii 17:57:11 cloud traps sound abusable ;p 17:57:11 *mimics and fix a few vaults 17:57:26 I don't understand the idea of a cloud trap. 17:57:58 Okay, so I'll collect trap ideas somewhere. 17:58:20 it'd make a cool vault, walkin into some room and the door shuts and it fills up with poisonous gas 17:58:37 Mu_: perhaps they shold be one-off. Like teleporation traps, they should also have limited charges. 17:58:38 Mu_: that was my thought, yes. 17:58:41 t&d spotting mimics sounds good, but it needs to be one shot. You reconize it or not. Don't want players hanging around 100 turns in front of every door and stairs 17:58:45 dpeg: yes, exactly 17:58:57 galehar: yes, good idea 17:59:07 Would Ash know/tell about the mimic? 17:59:18 he already does 17:59:22 okay 17:59:29 detect creatures reveal mimics (antennae too) 17:59:37 galehar: lightyellow/lightred, right? 17:59:44 yep 18:00:34 altar mimics <3 18:00:41 <333 altar mimics <333 18:00:56 need an ET having only mimics 18:01:46 mimics spawn too late for good altar mimic fun :( 18:01:58 the problem with altar mimics is the depth. Feature mimics don't appear before D:10 18:02:08 03dolorous * r298eb132b5c0 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Simplify the check for attacking Jiyva slimes. 18:02:15 special-cased, now-power altar mimic vaults on early d-levels? 18:02:47 yeah, we can have softer version maybe :P 18:03:48 kilobyte: yes, too deadly. :( A temple of mimics tickles my cold, atheist heart, though. 18:04:23 but honestly 18:04:31 early altars are a god-send for agnostics 18:04:36 having one of them turn out ot be a mimic? /priceless/. 18:05:10 BTW, now that you broken that rule that oklob saplings should be ZotDef only, what about reducing the early Fedhas overflow to a sapling? 18:05:35 galehar: we shouldn't do this now, but perhaps mimics could come in tiers, regardless of their category. A D:26 mimic ought to be different opposition than a D:7 one. 18:05:39 currently its only function is free xp with reaching / rod of cloud/smiting 18:06:00 kilobyte: I only did it because I saw a sapling in a vault somewhere. Somebody else broke the rule! 18:06:08 :) 18:06:23 And when I saw their sapling, I wanted one, too. Naturally. 18:06:28 it came into being only because there were problems with glyph/colour, right? 18:06:38 don't recall anymore 18:07:29 kilobyte: I don't understand... do you think the sapling monster should be improved, or taht the oklob plant overflow altar (at least one of the mine) is too hard? 18:07:57 I mean the old early altar 18:08:00 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:24 but its oklob is entrenched and far away ... does it kill so many visitors? 18:08:28 tgw_fedhas 18:08:31 aha 18:08:32 hardly any 18:08:50 So you think the vault would be more dangerous with sapling? Sounds good! 18:09:15 you'd have to be overconfident, notice a juicy spot for reaching abuse that requires taking a couple of turns under fire 18:09:35 (that's what you need to die to the oklob there) 18:09:41 kilobyte: btw, I wasn't aware of the big step that adding saplings is. Now one should think about incorporating saplings into the Fedhas evolution chains. 18:09:45 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:02 kilobyte: my mind's on Ely, if you can improve the vault, please go ahead :) 18:10:06 it would be not as dangerous as currently, my main point is it would give less XP if you can abuse it 18:10:11 ah! 18:10:14 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:34 @??oklob sapling 18:10:34 oklob sapling (11P) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(16), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++ | XP: 60 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5). 18:10:36 @??oklob plant 18:10:36 oklob plant (09P) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 36-72 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++ | XP: 558 | Sp: acid splash (3d7+7d5). 18:10:53 oh, same damage 18:11:48 dpeg: (re: altar mimics. the early dungeon is the bit that most players see multiple times, with the mid-dungeon being rarer and the late dungeon/pans/etc being unlikely outside of a specific set; thus, having interesting, new, fun, horrible, etc, threats, is realy good for it) 18:12:31 I absolutely agree. Thence ossuaries, sewers, many early vaults. 18:12:54 and early uniques :) 18:12:58 yes! 18:13:20 but /thematic/ early uniques as opposed the faceless hordes of humans we used to have :) 18:13:32 !lg * ikiller=Ignacio 18:13:33 4. plantaspoon the Archmage (L27 HEWz), worshipper of Vehumet, blasted by Ignacio (nerve-wracking pain) in Pandemonium on 2011-09-03, with 688227 points after 115998 turns and 19:08:18. 18:13:36 :D 18:13:40 !lm * uniq-Ignacio 18:13:41 Malformed argument: uniq-Ignacio 18:13:46 !lm * uniq=Ignacio 18:13:46 69. [2011-09-03] inspector071 the Sorcerer (L27 DECj) killed Ignacio on turn 111712. (Pan) 18:13:51 has anyone met jory yet? 18:13:53 !lg * ikiller=Sigmund 18:13:54 31859. southview the Shield-Bearer (L2 HuFi), blasted by Sigmund (puff of flame) on D:2 on 2011-09-03, with 123 points after 1285 turns and 0:13:43. 18:13:58 !lm * uniq=Sigmund 18:14:01 73078. [2011-09-03] blueDave the Priest (L4 HOPr) killed Sigmund on turn 1875. (D:2) 18:14:18 !lg * ikiller=grinder 18:14:18 4845. c23 the Vexing (L5 SpEn), worshipper of Fedhas, blasted by Grinder (nerve-wracking pain) on D:4 on 2011-09-03, with 424 points after 4342 turns and 0:28:55. 18:14:22 :D 18:14:42 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:00 due: I think large vaults were not placed in the tournament. My fault :( 18:15:04 do giant newts have faces? 18:15:29 kilobyte: front side and back side! :) 18:15:46 dpeg: that's okay 18:16:31 time for 0.9.1, I guess 18:16:58 kilobyte: that's a pretty grave bug, yes. 18:19:05 With the current Ely sacrifice, you'd ideally collect ammunition, then split it into packets of value 100 each :O 18:32:08 Does anyone know how to get a draft saved on the wiki? :O 18:32:36 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:43 dpeg: no, order of sacrificing doesn't matter 18:33:04 saccing 100 piles is as good as one, it's the individual items that matter 18:33:35 ok 18:33:57 but now I am more interested in the getting the draft... lost all my changes :( 18:35:58 fuck, it's gone 18:36:08 :S 18:36:13 dpeg: did you submit it at all, ever? 18:36:22 or a preview? 18:36:29 no 18:36:31 :S 18:37:15 Mu_: I'd recommend trying different descriptor names for the slave markers and making sure that they are properly disconnected 18:37:38 Mu_: i'm not sure, but it's possible that it's just looking for slaves with spawn_number as a property rather than the acutal spawn number value 18:41:22 beh... watching some guy finishing D:12 on trunk (I have a surprise on D:13), but as N98271 plays ~5 commands per second, this guy does a command per 5 secs... 18:41:23 about mimics, how about we gave them randomized stats like abomination? And use depth as power. 18:41:51 galehar: sounds like a good idea 18:41:59 galehar: randomized stats suck, but depth-dependent power could work 18:42:12 galehar: using depth is really good 18:42:29 can't we derive stats from type (item, door etc.)? 18:42:44 dpeg: of course. Anything is possible :) 18:42:51 kilobyte: which game? 18:42:52 as in, types would be contrained with depth? 18:42:59 I'd like to see the web vault as well :P 18:43:08 it's already the case btw. Weapon mimics hit harder and armour mimics have more AC. 18:43:22 wouldn't be bad, this way you can tell which mimic is strong 18:44:06 Wensley: JasonMel, but he's really, really slow so don't hold your breath 18:44:12 ha 18:45:17 well, if anyone has ideas for an algorithm to make mimics stats from depth I'm taking 18:45:22 looks like etothei on cao is on d:12 right now 18:45:24 but not now 18:45:29 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: zzz] 18:46:07 !tell Napkin think the dglwhere daemon is down again 18:46:08 Wensley: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 18:46:10 due: oh that's probably true since i wasn't aware a number of enemies was specified, but i guess it should be 1? and i generate 3 18:46:19 yeah, probably 18:46:20 Napkin: You have 16 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:46:28 edlothiol hasn't shown up yet ;) 18:46:56 due: which line is the 'descriptor names for the slave marker' ? 18:47:25 restarted, Wensley 18:47:34 thanks 18:48:46 oh i guess it's that niceguy thing 18:48:46 web traps get placed in vaults when ^ is used, is that desired? I had a bunch of them in a pan lord vault earlier 18:49:10 problem is, it's a perl daemon with a weird starting.. i can't even put it in a while true construct... 18:50:14 Napkin: as in, it forks itself like typical daemons do? 18:50:24 yes 18:50:50 wish i could disable that temporarily, but i'm not touching greensnark's millions of functions ;) 18:54:04 due: ok even if i rename all the local stuff it still does it :P guess i can only use it once on the map 18:55:43 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:58:41 -!- Galefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:17 ;/ 18:59:27 Mu_: can you send me your current map? 18:59:35 ok one sec 18:59:56 kilobyte: I think it would be faster to get to d:12 yourself than watch this guy 19:01:53 here, I will race him 19:02:28 go Wensley go! 19:02:33 due: sent 19:02:54 <2! 19:02:57 ... <3 rather 19:04:00 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:51 kilobyte: webs ahoy!! 19:11:21 Wensley: not on CDO? 19:11:32 oops, on cao I guess 19:11:39 wait no, I'm on cdo 19:11:46 XL3 spriggan :p 19:12:01 Wensley: nick? 19:12:05 Wensley 19:12:23 is that description tailored to your race? 19:12:31 yeah :) 19:12:36 I like it 19:13:04 Wensley: run into one, please 19:13:21 looks nice 19:14:10 it certainly helped to kill that goblin :P 19:14:25 let's see how it helps against this hill giant 19:14:43 The hill giant tears through a web. 19:14:51 you didn't get the proper layout, though 19:15:16 I didn't go and disable the CHANCE: for the rest, so the 100% is not absolute 19:15:22 if it helps, I fell into the level from a trapdoor and landed in the middle of all the webs 19:15:33 is there more than just this? 19:16:08 The hungry ghost passes through a web. 19:16:17 and the hill giant just tore through them all 19:16:20 same, just with a tighter layout 19:16:23 does t&d skill help detect webs? 19:16:27 I have 4 t&d 19:16:29 well, giants are immune 19:16:39 as they should be, yeah 19:16:48 notice: yes, avoid: not yet IIRC 19:17:02 Does it make a noticeable difference if you're a Sp or a Tr? 19:17:19 strength 19:17:24 good 19:19:19 kilobyte: so is this a full-level vault, or just a normal level with webs around? 19:19:35 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:36 normal level 19:20:59 why does the entire screen seem to refresh on getting caught in webs 19:21:03 at least 19:21:08 that's what I'm getting from Wensley's game 19:22:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:24:08 just one last bit about Ely 19:24:09 orc priests!! 19:24:11 Wensley: did you notice it too? 19:24:20 but on the bright side, it looks like that other guy just finished d:12 19:24:23 monqy: yes 19:24:41 Where will I find the chance/cost for Ely's protection from harm? 19:25:01 There are so many god files. 19:25:57 looks like god_protects_from_harm in religion.cc 19:26:02 thank you 19:26:38 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:53 that and elyvilon_lifesaving right above it, I guess 19:27:11 yes, reading it 19:29:54 kilobyte: he just got to d:13 19:30:08 don't see any webs, though 19:30:57 Hey, if you have any interesting in Elyvilon, perhaps you can have a look at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:elyvilon 19:31:12 Not sure this is good Implementable stuff, but I could ask dolorous. 19:31:21 *any interest 19:33:50 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:12 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:15 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * r628869b99512 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Changelog for 0.9.1 19:34:20 due: email me if you figure somethin out, gonna be afk a while 19:35:20 now we need Mac builds for 0.9.1 19:35:49 GreatZebu!!! 19:36:07 :-) 19:36:14 is 0.9.1 tagged? 19:37:25 yup, building the packages 19:37:36 source and Windows uploaded 19:42:55 ok, some mac binaries will be along shortly 19:43:07 Mu_: okay, just having cake currently 19:43:38 kilobyte, GreatZebu: many thanks! 19:43:57 There should be a quick announcement on the blog/news. 19:48:33 kind of weird that orc high priests have summon demon, beogh doesn't really have anything to do with demons 19:49:32 Wensley: but orc high priests are much, much older than Beogh 19:49:34 I think I've complained about that as well. it also makes them too similar to sorcerors 19:49:38 the observation is right of course :) 19:49:49 do they still have hellfire res 19:49:51 I think I suggested making them recall orcs or something like that? it was a while ago 19:49:52 because i hate that 19:50:18 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:52 anyways if we really want to keep them around just make them into 'orc cultists' and have orc high priests be something more beogh-y 19:53:02 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:03 having both "cultists" and "XXX for XXX god!" close to each other would be too obvious :p 19:53:03 ooh orc cultists <3 19:53:22 ttants: orc cultists, bear cultists. 19:55:26 orccultist 19:56:06 !tell MarvinPA Some player wrote a long treatise about the Fire school and FE (on the forum) and I believe he got quite a bit wrong. You're more familiar with the global school balance, could you have a look (only reply if you think it is worthwhile). Thank you! 19:56:07 dpeg: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know. 19:56:30 (it's probably not worthwhile) 19:57:23 he seems that the point of FE is to stay with Fire, and never stray 19:57:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:06 !tell Napkin When you said you stickied Wensley's implementables thread, it didn't work! I can only advertise the thread on the blog if it is sticky =) 19:58:06 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 19:58:29 bedtime here, if you care about the Healer God, now is a good time to do so 19:58:41 Helaer god? 19:58:44 != Ely? 19:58:47 ely 19:58:54 I'll be away from Monday for two weeks and I'd like to ask dolorous about it. 19:58:59 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:elyvilon 19:58:59 oh 19:59:01 due: go try out servitors :D 19:59:09 Eronarn: busy, ifmo :( 19:59:16 Eronarn: http://wxwhatever.com/mat/11/play/day03.html :D 20:00:12 dpeg: that thread appears to be sticky on my end 20:00:40 Wensley: didn't your motther always teach you to wash your hands after playing with sticky stuff? 20:00:48 Wensley: interesting 20:00:59 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:00 due: neat 20:01:21 Eronarn: I'm currnetly wroking on cutscenes. 20:01:24 wow, I did not consider how that statement could be construed :P 20:01:26 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:29 Wensley: ah, if I restrict to design subforum? 20:02:08 dpeg: ah yes, so that's what you meant. you were talking about making the post into a global announcement 20:02:18 Wensley: welcome to my brain :p 20:02:36 !tell Napkin Falscher Alarm! Letzte Nachricht bitte vergessen. 20:02:37 dpeg: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 20:04:34 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:04:39 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:06 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:30 Mornin' 20:07:56 I noticed the "winged helmet" gives a different graphic on the character tile, but not in the inventory icons. 20:08:41 If I happened to create a fitting inventory icon for the winged version of the helmet, is that something you would want to add? 20:08:56 Assuming it's up to par in terms of quality and style. 20:09:14 Pingas: not sure if there's someone around who can help quickly. Would you report/upload on Mantis? 20:09:23 Pingas: sure 20:11:16 I have no idea how the contributions system works. I've never been involved in any open source contributions. 20:11:51 if works as follows: you make things, and other people will use them if they are good :) 20:12:45 Also, it's not yet done. I thought I'd check if there was any chance it would be added before starting. 20:13:26 Pingas: you've seen the bug tracker? 20:13:39 Instead of completing it and getting a "nope, it's not needed / tile crew only" or something like that. 20:13:43 I have not. 20:14:02 mantisbt.org? 20:14:04 Pingas: have you checked to see if there is an inventory tile for it? 20:14:08 ??mantis 20:14:08 mantis[1/1]: The replacement for sourceforge, mantis can be found at http://crawl.develz.org/mantis 20:14:10 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php 20:14:11 --^ 20:14:39 Pingas: the bug report page allows you to upload stuff. That's where you can describe the problem and upload your tile. 20:14:45 And sure we like contributions! 20:14:50 due: I have only noticed it ingame (latest version). 20:14:52 ok, I have uploaded 0.9.1 binaries to cdo 20:14:57 GreatZebu: <3 20:15:00 Whereas it had the same tile as a regular "helmet". 20:15:02 Pingas: yeah, looks like we only have a doll item 20:16:50 speaking of helmets, can we axe the non-cosmetic ones and make whether items have cosmetic variants an option 20:17:00 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:misc:traps 20:17:13 just reading this, after what seems ages 20:17:28 "insane resistance, notably from Eronarn and TGW" :) 20:17:38 who cares about Eronarn and TGW? ;) 20:17:49 i think we have suitably bribed Eronarn though by adding servitors :D 20:17:51 TGW and Eronarn care about Eronarn and TGW! 20:17:58 -!- ryzol has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:59 i haven't spoken to him in ages, though 20:18:01 I actually do not recall any of this, the resistance cannot have been quite insane 20:18:04 TGW and Eronarn are getting married? cool! 20:18:21 dpeg: this was just resistance to the formula you proposed, mostly 20:18:22 Eronarn: congratulations! :D 20:18:29 Eronarn: ah, you recall 20:18:43 because it let stepping on a tile at high depths = HUGE number of burned scrolls 20:18:47 stereotypical joke with context time: Eronarn, are you going to wear the dress? ;)) 20:19:05 The ideas of ice/fire/magical traps look still good to me. 20:19:15 Who does not like item destruction? 20:19:18 ??TGW 20:19:18 tgw[1/8]: (3:22:37 AM) Aladar: he's doing it out of spite (3:22:38 AM) Aladar: basically (3:23:07 AM) Aladar: i think that might be all tgw ever does. 20:19:20 ??TGW[2] 20:19:20 tgw[2/8]: < TGW> ero: they're too big to effectively use sbl < TGW> spriggans are even smaller < TGW> and they can't effectively use sbl 20:19:25 ??TGWi 20:19:26 tgw[1/8]: (3:22:37 AM) Aladar: he's doing it out of spite (3:22:38 AM) Aladar: basically (3:23:07 AM) Aladar: i think that might be all tgw ever does. 20:19:33 oh well, too lazy to find it 20:19:58 dpeg: i don't like item destruction, but even compared to crawl's existing item destruction, those traps can do a LOT if you run into one past d20 or so 20:20:21 Eronarn: item destruction is always unpopular, of course, but it serves a purpose. 20:20:24 ~2/3 chance of losing each scroll in inventory, for up to d20 scrolls 20:20:55 item destruction is frustraitng because normally it's just a matter of bad luck or whatever 20:20:59 imo if you want a "burn all your scrolls" trap it should sticky flame you 20:21:03 you can't do much to resolve it 20:21:10 and te steps you /can/ take to prevent it become scummy 20:21:16 I can argue better why item destruction is useful than what weapon traps are good for. Compare: "You run into a blade a trap. You die!" with "You run into a fire trap. Your scroll of acquirement burns." 20:21:18 evilmike: or generate lots of flame clouds in a large area 20:21:23 yeah a cloud trap would work 20:21:25 like... dropping all your scrolls before fighting certain monsters 20:21:34 cloud traps would also be easy to make variations of... freezing, flaming, poison, etc 20:21:35 evilmike: yes, good idea 20:21:55 a flame cloud at least has ways to deal with it once you've triggered the trap, and it doesn't all happen at once 20:21:56 (to be clear, the point of destruction is that a player cannot carry all his useful consumables) 20:22:05 for example, it becomes an interesting choice whether to read your blink scroll, or cast the spell, or etc. 20:22:13 b0rsuk also proposes magical traps, reducing wand charges <3 20:22:46 i'm still of the opinion that setting traps from wands doens't have too much benefit - you have to drag monsters over to it, etc. 20:22:53 I am not saying that the fire flavour trap should be "Fire trap, these scrolls burned". Just that it is a better use for T&D than weapon traps. 20:23:04 dpeg: 'cloud of antimagic' could be cool - drains MP, wand charges, enchantments (as per acid) 20:23:06 due: but this is something completely different 20:23:08 What I like about the current item destruction is that if you're PREPARED, you can be rewarded. If not, you can avoid it. 20:23:15 Eronarn: he has exactly the same 20:23:18 It seems like more a zoning tool rather than a "haha, you just lost a pot". 20:23:19 dpeg: oh, i know, i'm just reflecting on the original proposal 20:23:25 Pingas: reward??? 20:23:39 note that the more item destruction goes in crawl, the more important conversation is. imo it's already the best amulet to have for most situations 20:24:00 generally i'll wear conservation and swap to others as needed, but conservation is the one for walking around in 20:24:11 dpeg: If you have conservation, you may do x. If you have ice resistance, you may do y. If you try to do it without it, you get a penalty. 20:24:13 yeah, and the cloak is great too 20:24:14 So you'd avoid it. 20:24:39 due: in my dreams, you'd plant traps very rarely (less than once a level). Having a trap-planting mini-game (choice of fuze etc.) and monster luring would be acceptable because of this 20:24:42 thought: amulet of warding could ward hostile clouds 20:24:49 gas mask 20:24:51 this would help with item destruction, and be a neat effect 20:25:08 evilmike: I always thought the same, but good players (much better than I am) keep telling me otherwise 20:25:13 dpeg: but -- this is not a game that encourages lingering on levels. 20:25:19 dpeg: or indeed, lingering in certain locations. 20:25:21 It's still a matter of preperation and choices, rather than randomly losing items for the fun of it. 20:25:24 dpeg: well, people do disagree on this matter 20:25:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:34 which is why i didn't use fedhas's plant rings/etc very much, outside of zot 20:25:35 but I know good players who agree with my opinions on conservation :P 20:26:00 conservation is definitely the best with rslow gone 20:26:02 and conversation? 20:26:16 well, my whole point is that losing potions/scrolls is more fun than dying 20:26:24 Eronarn: "definitely"? 20:26:35 we definitely need some effect that randomly discharges wands 20:26:36 due: the amulet that protects (not prevents) scrolls/potions from being destroyed 20:26:36 due: I proposed that once, but nobody like it 20:26:47 dpeg: all the other amulets are much worse (they have uses, but fewer) 20:26:54 Wensley: yes, because wands are currently sacrosanct 20:26:55 I want an amulet of conversation :D 20:26:56 for symmetry I always wanted electric attacks to discharge wands in your inventory in random directions, but people seem to not like this idea :P 20:27:11 conservation is useful everywhere except where some other amulet is 'mandatory' (like slime) 20:27:42 when I see too many players swap "Cons in and out, we'll have to pull another gourmand 20:27:45 brb 20:27:47 Wensley: The bolt of lightning hits you! The bolt of lightning hits you! Your wand of lightning bolts discharges! The bolt of lightning hits you! Your wand of lightning bolts discharges... 20:27:47 bye 20:27:54 Eronarn: brilliant 20:28:15 conservation is also fairly necessary in gehenna and cocytus if you want to bring scrolls / potions 20:28:49 dpeg: the problem is that there are too many useful amulets that it's sometimes difficult to knoiw which is te best for a certain situation 20:28:52 dpeg: could just make all amulets have gourmand-like waiting periods, but then buff the weak ones :) 20:28:57 We should also either remove preservation or give it a nice drawback. 20:29:19 preservation? you mean the cloak ego? 20:29:22 yes 20:29:34 preservation should definitely go 20:29:36 dpeg: the simpe solution here is to nuke teh amulet of conservation 20:29:44 dpeg: and replace it with a cloak of conversation 20:29:44 1 pd 20:29:44 could just make it rCorr 20:29:46 :D 20:29:50 due: well, it does compete with other amulets 20:29:55 Eronarn: for example. I like the idea that amulets are more about long-term stuff (not true for all, but many) 20:30:03 dpeg: yes, but we can nuke it and replace it with a lcoak that only does cons -- and nuke preservation. 20:30:17 dpeg: we could make it true for all pretty easily if we chose 20:30:18 i think the opposite makes a bit more sense 20:30:33 a cloak that protects you from acid, an amulet that magically protests you from item destruction 20:30:44 'basic cloak' 20:30:54 Eronarn: yes, the offenders are cFly (problematic in any way), rMut (could work with atonement), Cons (likewise), Warding 20:31:23 what's so bad about swapping amulets? they're a lot less annoying to swap (interface-wise) than rings are 20:31:41 evilmike: have you been around when gourmand was not nerfed yet? 20:31:49 oh, yeah gourmand was an issue 20:32:04 dpeg: warding could do the cloud effect i mentioned, rmsl... we could merge warding and rmut... cfly could just be cut 20:32:09 Everyone and their granny would do the PaeyeyeyeyeyPb-doodle, for every freaking yak. 20:32:13 but stuff like the various amulets that let you resist things don't seem problematic 20:32:19 stasis seems ok too 20:32:45 also, the instant effect of stasis lets you pull (risky) tricks like swapping to it when you want to cancel slowing 20:33:46 we already have Faith, Gourmand, Spirit, that require a strategical choice 20:34:06 yeah those are good. I especially like how spirit works, it's nice and quick 20:34:12 having rings for swapping in and out, and amulets for decisions seems like a good distinction between " and = to me 20:34:13 the waiting period seems more natural than gourmand 20:35:00 I think the Gourmand nerf was the first thing I ever did in the devteam. 20:35:46 part of my worry with resists is that the amulets might just be "swap, run to the stairs, wait 100 turns, then go back and fight" 20:35:50 if rMut absorbed mutagenic energy, and released any remaining at you if you take it off too early, that'd be interesting 20:36:22 anyway, definitely some good trap ideas on the page, the summons seem to be missing 20:36:52 evilmike: the good thing about Gourmand is that the chunks will be rotten by then 20:37:01 yeah, the mechanic works well for that one 20:37:05 using ` to repeat a Sif channelling sometimes also casts a spell (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4501) by humeral 20:37:33 I'll clean up the trap page next. Perhaps we can get something done for 0.11, needn't be radical for a start. 20:39:42 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 20:40:21 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]] 20:47:00 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 20:47:42 May I ask how the Octopode-race started being developed? 20:47:57 Pingas: Eronarn loves tentacles :D 20:48:30 well, i suppose we all do, in a way. 20:51:25 Hah! 20:52:12 that really is the story, too 20:52:30 Now we just need to add a Japanese school girl... 20:59:42 ??ashenzari 20:59:42 [1/3]: God of divinations, curses and knowledge, new in 0.8. Likes when you wear cursed gear and explore the world. Grants passive divinations, mapping, SInv, Clarity, and an active scrying ability at increasing levels of piety. Allows you to {reskill}. Now provides {ash skill boost}. 21:08:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:18 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:42 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:19 -!- hoody__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:35 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:17:13 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:17:18 App bundle is not recognized as an app by Spotlight under OS X 10.6+ (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4502) by geoelectric 22:15:01 Maybe it would be cool with a more unpredictable race. 22:15:09 Like an abomination with constantly changing mutations. 22:20:54 -!- hoody__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:21 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:28 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:28 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:58 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Quit: GreatZebu] 22:48:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:16 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:06 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:09 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]