00:02:49 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-416-gfb4d669 (32) 00:14:33 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:40 wooo, pull request sent 00:15:00 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:36 all right, i feel more accomplished now 00:18:43 good night ##crawl-dev 00:48:27 -!- aapo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:26 Hi, I'm packaging crawl (0.9.1) for Maemo5 (debian based Linux). I'm confused with directory structure, I started with Ubuntu Natty's packaging and it uses SAVEDIR/SHAREDDIR. But I'm getting "Cannot find data file 'dlua/macro.lua' anywhere, aborting" and I do not know where it is looking for and can I use some commandline parameters 00:52:50 It takes many hours to compile (for ARM-device), so I prefer asking over trial-and-error. 00:55:57 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:18 On ARM: char is unsigned as default (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4474) by AapoRantalainen 01:07:13 Hm. 01:07:27 aapo: I'm pretty sure the dlua directory got renamed, because it had lua in it that ... wasn't dlua. 01:08:29 due: I have data/dat/dlua/macro.lua 01:08:48 Don't our own packages ahve 0.9.1 compiled for aRM? 01:10:00 Anyway, let me get this straight -- you're starting with UBuntu Natty's packaging, and are trying to convert it to work for 0.9.1? 01:11:14 And by "packaging" I presume you mean all of the stuff from that, which allows you to make a debian package? 01:11:23 due, thats right. I didn't know crawl has repository which has armel also, I will check that 01:11:42 In which case, you are really up a creek -- Natty is 0.7.1. 01:11:51 Which is two major versions ago :) 01:11:53 I know that 01:12:19 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads 01:12:25 but 'packaging' means debian-directory, nothing more 01:20:34 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:38 -!- GreatZebu has quit [Quit: GreatZebu] 01:24:37 moin guys 01:24:56 hi napking :) 01:25:09 due! :) 01:25:26 sick at home! \o/ 01:25:30 nose running ;) 01:26:01 CATCH IT! before it escapes! ;) 01:26:04 how's your interactive fiction project going? 01:26:11 so far so good! 01:26:13 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:19 i've been catching all morning already ;D 01:26:27 I'm just finishing up my framework tweaks right now, won't really start writing until tonight or tomorrow. 01:26:45 sounds good :) 01:32:32 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:49:23 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:53:38 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:03 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:16 !tell dpeg "no tournament spike". even though you gained more players compared to last years tournament. lamenting on a high level. you, you ... german! 02:41:17 bhaak: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 03:29:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:34:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:49 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 03:44:00 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:25 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:13 Entrance to Zot not on D:27. Created entrance and entered and game closes. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4475) by Baldurino 04:05:18 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:18 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 04:05:18 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:21 morning 04:07:52 hi 04:07:53 galehar: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:07:58 !messages 04:07:58 (1/2) greatzebu said (9h 54m 1s ago): thanks for the abyss patch feedback, I've added a patch to address the issues we discussed 04:08:03 !messages 04:08:03 (1/1) dpeg said (9h 7m ago): Let us ignore the comments on rP food from the forum, I don't think they help. We can go without them at first, but I think eggs are good. 04:09:38 galehar: what was the issue greatzebu had? 04:09:57 Sorry to have been scarce lately, my laptop has been broken and I'm in the process of moving 04:11:11 it was this patch: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4471 04:11:23 I explained how to handle save compatibility 04:11:41 ah. Is that a new bug? 04:12:23 no, it's a feature 04:12:57 when escaping the abyss, return to the level you were banished instead of the dungeon 04:13:08 galehar: rather, the behavior you corrected was *existing* rather than introduced by new abyss? 04:13:24 yeah, it's not related to the new abyss 04:13:57 regarding the new abyss, kilobyte noted that you can force a shift by saveing and reloading 04:14:10 I guess abyssal_state needs to be saved 04:14:17 haven't tested yet 04:15:03 also, mumra suggested that tileset changes sometimes. Maybe as a part of the morphing, or the shifting, not sure. 04:16:11 galehar: yes, it does need to be saved. It's ok that the tileset changes, as far as I can recall, the abyss does rarely undergo old style jumps. 04:16:38 we should also remove doors from the allowable dungeon tiles when populating the abyss. 04:16:44 They look awful in tiles. 04:16:53 yep 04:17:31 have you fixed your laptop? 04:17:45 will you work on the abyss or are you too busy? 04:18:08 Too busy. I'm moving house tomorrow and won't be somewhere permanent for upto three months. 04:22:52 door abyss regions tend to be pretty funny though, and they were rare enough in the old abyss (dunno about the new one) 04:23:22 if it looks bad in tiles it seems like a good solution would just be a new tile... 04:24:02 they look quite out of place 04:24:14 I mean, doors in the abyss? 04:25:03 well, in that case there are a couple of vaults that you should remove 04:27:03 not many, but there are a couple that are basically made of doors... just two or three 04:35:24 comparing wchar_t and char (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4476) by AapoRantalainen 04:40:00 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 04:40:00 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [*.net *.split] 04:40:00 -!- ZorbaTHut has quit [*.net *.split] 04:40:01 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 04:42:20 I'd say, let's remove generation of doors and do that only for vaults if morphing them can be avoided 04:42:49 kilobyte: vaults don't morph. Morphing checks for the VAULT mapmask. 04:42:54 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:54 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:54 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:58 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:00 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:31 bmh: I had an impression that vaults can decay there; if not, that makes it simplier. 04:45:18 kilobyte: vaults can be destroyed, at which time their items get cleaned up, but they'll stay intact until destruction 04:46:08 does the new abyss have regions with wax everywhere? 04:46:10 as a whole, not a part, right? 04:46:44 kilobyte: correct. The vault mask gets unset and the vault is mulched 04:50:25 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:50 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest25117 04:52:20 Hi aapo! 04:52:50 keskitalo, Hi, for a long time 04:53:00 Yeah, great to see you checking back on Crawl :) 04:53:23 last time I struglled with openmoko freerunner porting 04:53:37 Is openmoko still alive? 04:53:49 bmh: no, I changed this behaviour. Vaults can morph too. Just slower and only if you're close by. 04:54:18 galehar: oh. If that does something terrible, I wash my hands :) 04:54:54 openmoko inc is no working with openmoko distribution, but freerunner devices are still up and running 04:55:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:15 Ok.. I've got to run, cheers! 04:57:31 cheers 05:00:14 I think morphing vaults is an issue for most of the rune ones, especially the ones that try to have some sort of path that you can't just dig through. Although rune vaults in the abyss have never been common 05:00:47 if morphing had been in when i made them, i would have done them very differently though 05:00:58 evilmike: rune vaults should be more common. Stops kilobyte from scumming the abyss at level 2 05:01:03 heh heh 05:01:58 Getting the Abyss rune should be hard like getting any other rune. 05:02:07 It shouldn't be the "Free Rune for Spriggans" 05:02:09 Well, if abyss vault morphing is to stay, I think the best design for a rune vault would be to place the rune in the middle, with any walls in the vault being fairly thick 05:02:26 most of the ones I made follow more of a "entrance on one end, rune on the other end" type of layout 05:02:42 evilmike: or adjust morphing so that different materials morph at different rates. Then make the walls out of metal 05:02:51 hmm yes, that would work too 05:02:51 I'm not sure about vault morphing. We can completely remove it, or just make vaults very resilient. 05:03:55 I'll do some tests when I go back to working on the abyss 05:04:26 could make green crystal morphable, I think it's uncorruptable with lugonu 05:04:39 unmorpable, I meant 05:06:37 hmm, or not. it's just a lot more resilient than rock 05:13:45 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:14:22 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:22 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 05:25:53 bmh: regarding tileset changes - as far as i'm aware, however long i've been in the abyss (old or new) i've never seen the tileset change - seems to be fixed whenever you enter the abyss 05:45:16 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 05:54:18 -!- Ashenzari has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:07 -!- Ashenzari has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:07 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: DCSS Development | Logs: http://tozt.net/crawl | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:03:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:09 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:36 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:54 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:20:20 -!- galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:11 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:23:45 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:51 hi 06:23:51 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:23:59 !messages 06:23:59 (1/1) bhaak said (3h 42m 43s ago): "no tournament spike". even though you gained more players compared to last years tournament. lamenting on a high level. you, you ... german! 06:24:15 hi dpeg 06:24:31 bhaak: it's in our blood! Complaing since Tacitus wrote the Germania -- he got some details quite wrong. 06:24:44 hah 06:24:55 what do you expect from a germanophile? 06:25:00 :) 06:25:46 I'm changing mimics so that they reveal when you step next to them (instead of on them) 06:25:54 that way, we can have statue mimics 06:26:10 (or any other solid feature mimic) 06:26:39 and they reveal by biting you? 06:27:12 you step, they are reaveled, then it's monster turn. Usually, that's what happens yes :) 06:27:53 Hm, I have a modified float.des which definitely contains a vault called evilmike_marble_ring. &L "marble" tells me there is no such map. How to make it realise I modified float.des? 06:28:34 touch dat/des/float.des perhaps 06:28:45 due: as in trivial change and save? 06:29:03 worked! 06:29:08 dpeg: or literally wiht the unix touch command ;) 06:30:27 regarding abyss morphing and vaults, I'm thinking it would be better to just make them immune to it 06:30:42 what's to gain from morphing vaults? 06:31:01 galehar_: true, it will only affect the challenge 06:31:10 not morphing them makes them stand out, which is the point of vaults 06:34:42 !tell evilmike Traps have their natural colour, just tested! Made the inner room's floor white in your first vault. 06:34:42 dpeg: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 06:34:48 galehar_: yes 06:44:36 03dpeg * r9bf835f6dffd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Seven floating vaults (evilmike); #4462. 06:47:38 sorry for being a pest, but can one of our coders review ghallberg's monk patch (4379)? 06:48:06 03galehar * rf584a52d8432 10/crawl-ref/source/abyss.cc: Don't morph abyss vaults. 06:48:14 -!- galehar_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:07 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:31 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:36 dpeg: what about a vault tag like no_abyss_morph so designers can specify whether its desired or not? 07:14:45 mumra: now that is even better 07:14:46 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:14:49 !messages 07:14:50 (1/2) syraine said (7m 23s ago): mikee_ has something to tell you 07:16:31 dpeg: the patch is no good! "Monk staart with some extra piety." -- we can't allow such a nasty typo. 07:18:17 mumra good idea 07:19:41 seriously, though, the variable you.had_god is not saved, so after a reload you can get free piety when swapping gods 07:20:34 kilobyte: <3 07:20:40 it stores information already present elsewhere, too -- you.worshipped[] 07:22:16 kilobyte: is it possible to fix that quickly? 07:23:35 kilobyte: do we check which gods the player already worshipped? 07:23:59 That woudl be useful in other contexts as well... I would like to have flavour speech when you take on a good god, but already went with an evil god, for example. 07:29:56 kilobyte: I am asking because if not, adding stuff which tracks all this information will be useful. For Monk, we'd use only very little of the information, but more to come later. 07:32:03 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:12 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:57 we store the count of that 07:35:30 like, that you worshipped Lugonu twice and TSO once 07:37:39 kilobyte: so we can use that for Monk purposes? 07:37:53 what's the purpose of "the Seeker" in the patch? It's not used and can cause display misalignment 07:38:18 don't know 07:38:21 ghallberg: around? 07:39:49 the HUD shows: "Vampire **...." instead of "Vampire of Lugonu ......". Was this supposed to include that "seeker" somehow? 07:43:06 kilobyte: VpMo who goes Lugonu? 07:46:07 03dpeg * re80ec3f9fc71 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Catoblepas lair ending (evilmike), #4469. 07:47:43 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:34 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:38 < galehar_> (or any other solid feature mimic) 07:53:40 floor mimics 07:53:41 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:47 if you kill one, there's just a shaft left 07:55:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:07 Debian -packaging is not using 'prefix' enough. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4477) by AapoRantalainen 07:59:15 Eronarn, the new mimic code allows things as stupid as floor, wall and shallow water mimics :P 07:59:47 the idea of a mimic, as far I understand it, is that they masquerade as something an adventurer could want 07:59:49 galehar: i'd actually like to see a multi-tile corridor mimic 07:59:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:52 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 07:59:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:54 this is why we don't have trap mimics anymore 08:00:07 of course, they are not randomly generated, but you can make them in wizmode or in vaults 08:00:10 dpeg: well, in D&D, they could also do furniture or stuff - like a desk, so when you search it, it grabs you 08:00:18 or a door, so you walk through it 08:00:25 well, doors we have 08:00:35 if all mimics are chests and gold and etc., then it's too predictable, and you start firing at every chest 08:01:18 firing at mimics won't reveal them anymore. 08:01:20 D&D mimics are different though in that they're powerful grapplers 08:01:36 ours are kind of wimpy, except for portal/etc. mimics very early game 08:02:01 yes, I feel that uniques could have some additional, unique ability 08:02:06 will surely come with time 08:02:55 Eronarn: early game? item mimics depth is 12, feature is 15. 08:03:14 galehar: feature used to be able to show up as early as ~7 08:03:30 it was pretty bad 08:03:36 Do portal vault mimics make level sounds? 08:04:13 From 15 to 7 that's steep OOD. Extremely rare. Or do they used to have a shallower depth? 08:04:18 they used to be shallower 08:04:31 ok 08:04:37 @??portal mimic 08:04:37 portal mimic (02\) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 28-59 | AC/EV: 5/1 | Damage: 1208(poison), 12, 12 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 465. 08:04:51 fighting this when you were XL 7 or so was pretty hard for many characters 08:04:54 so they were bumped up 08:04:58 they'll start showing up at L10 08:05:28 and item mimics at L7 (with speed 8 and no teleport/change behaviour) 08:05:43 dpeg: yes, portal mimics will have proper message 08:08:38 nice 08:12:14 huh, item mimics are speed 8? 08:12:25 @??item mimic 08:12:25 unknown monster: "item mimic" 08:12:30 @??mimic 08:12:31 weapon mimic (04)) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 27-57 | AC/EV: 5/1 | Damage: 1708(poison), 17, 17 | Flags: 11non-living | Res: 06magic(32), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 491. 08:12:32 yes 08:14:15 !tell ghallberg could you please explain what "the Seeker" in your patch is supposed to do? It's unused and may cause misalignment -- did you mean to write "Vampire Seeker **...." or such? 08:14:16 kilobyte: OK, I'll let ghallberg know. 08:16:06 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:08 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:11 kilobyte: what do i modify to add an octo entry to the manual? 08:17:48 Eronarn: on the dev wiki 08:18:40 oh, there it is 08:18:47 i found th page for discussion of the manual, but not the manual one 08:18:59 oh, someone wrote one already 08:19:54 what's there is good, to whoever wrote it 08:20:15 btw kilobyte: the reason i gave them high evo is that they're intelligent, clever creatures 08:20:56 -!- epyon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:05 the way i see it, evo should be a combination of mechanical finesse (kobolds, deep dwarves), innate cleverness (kobolds, elves, octos), and magical item talent (deep dwarves) 08:21:16 Eronarn: you can probably figure out who it was, by looking at the list of changes to the text. 08:21:27 Eronarn: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest 08:21:33 kilobyte: hah, paint me red and call me a D if I understood everything in a deb. it's confusing to get anything done when trying to package your stuff. i'm glad my packages work :) 08:21:51 i guess it was kilo then :) good job 08:22:10 i don't see anything i would change at this point, though i've considered letting octos wear hard helmets 08:22:16 bhaak: well, calling Crawl's makefile unorthodox is an understatement 08:22:20 people seem confused by the restriction 08:23:05 btw, from the chaosforge wiki: 'Octopodes are a race of intelligent, amphibious, squid-like cephalopods.' 08:23:10 this is why i don't use the chaosforge wiki :( 08:23:22 kilobyte: "non-standard" even though you follow good standards like DESTDIR 08:24:07 03kilobyte * rdab06ca6e2eb 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-delve.cc: Silence a bogus compiler warning. 08:24:07 03kilobyte * re128f59130d5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Fix some abuses of "char" as an integer type. 08:24:07 03kilobyte * r1f9982f7ce05 10/crawl-ref/source/ (monster.cc traps.cc traps.h): Forcibly detaching yourself from a web may destroy it. 08:24:18 03kilobyte * r9a2a79be9f38 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Whitespace fixes. 08:24:18 03ghallberg * r6768517f32f1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (output.cc religion.cc religion.h): Monk staart with some extra piety. 08:24:30 oh, now it is my turn to change the manual 08:24:33 or rather, add some functionality sane systems already have, when I'm forced to :( 08:24:45 ... 08:24:54 I forgot to fix the typo in the commit message :p 08:27:39 Oh, someone added the line to the manual already. .... kilobyte, thanks. 08:28:48 ghallberg's patch tried to change it in git 08:29:04 kilobyte: about yesterday's manual talk. +1 to reference manual in git 08:29:50 makefile can silently fail to produce manual if python is missing 08:30:19 unless you did "make release", then it really fails 08:32:57 kilobyte: did you see my additional web patches from yesterday? 08:39:50 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:52 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 08:39:52 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:01 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:16 mumra: yeah, resolving them now 08:43:50 galehar: there are no uses of python needed for the manual 08:49:15 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:35 17:26:52 another issue was that there's no python on most platforms by default, and it's not something that can be sanely shipped in contribs 08:50:53 I thought that was about generating the manual from reST 08:53:31 yes, this is done during the actual build 08:55:08 kilobyte: cool. missing web tiles coming later. 08:56:09 03mumra * rece6804bd3cd 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Improve web placement algorithm 08:56:19 03mumra * r8dc45e64cff9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hints.cc hints.h): Hints for webs 08:56:19 03mumra * r43e651736b6f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (effects.cc traps.cc traps.h): Generate webs out of LOS during play 08:56:20 03mumra * rd1473517a8f4 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Vary # webs by spider branch depth (and randomise a bit) 08:58:07 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * rc57a4d7960c9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Fix some abuses of "char" as an integer type. 09:01:45 galehar: monsters living in the dungeon is not really a good explanation for them knowing all about potions and scrolls 09:01:59 do potions and scrolls only exist in the dungeon? if so, how did they get there? etc. 09:02:06 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.9 * r8a39726d4732 10/crawl-ref/source/tags.cc: Try to repair games hit by one of beta bugs. 09:02:32 not really important i guess, but im not seeing consistent flavor for this 09:05:42 galefury: monsters know all the potions and scrolls because they want you dead :) 09:09:00 galefury; we don't need a good explanation for monsters knowing about item type. "They live here" is good enough. We would need to a good reason to remove monster using items which minmay didn't provide. We're talking about a handful of problematic items and he suggests to prevent monsters from using them all. 09:10:21 yes, if the items are just not placed early on, there are no questions to be asked 09:10:35 and galehar's proposal of banning them on D:1-3 is very mild 09:11:01 for people not reading the tavern, I suggested that high tier wands and berserk potions don't generate on D:1 and D:2 09:11:36 minmay answered: problems with these items come from monsters using them, so that would be the first thing I'd take away. I definitely wouldn't miss monster potion/scroll usage. 09:13:15 galehar: you don't like monsters drinking healing? 09:13:41 monsters using items makes sense, I don't see why it should go 09:14:10 what about things like early elec or draining weapons? i guess they're a little more avoidable than early wands and berserk potions if you examine every monster for glowing weapons 09:15:21 I don't like this idea of pulling all teeth out of the early game. 09:15:27 but they'll similarly oneshot almost any character and can show up on d:1 09:15:30 If you see a monster with a glowing weapon, turn tails. 09:15:31 right, me neither :P 09:15:43 But if you get the weapon, it is an actual achievement. 09:15:59 it just seems like this might be a step in that direction, but i agree that wands/potions are somewhat nastier 09:16:54 yes, we should start with that 09:18:02 dpeg: I'm fine with monsters drinking potions of healing. minmay isn't. 09:18:32 we don't have to remove all unavoidable theat. Only the most obvious/unfair ones. 09:18:51 yes 09:19:00 it's also useful because it helps with the id game - if i see {tried by monster} on a potion them i'm 99% certain it's healing 09:19:04 also, a monster drinking the potion gives you information, that's goosd 09:19:09 mumra: +1 09:19:13 lol 09:20:12 The only monster item I've ever had a problem with is wand of polymorph. 09:20:27 dpeg: the problem with removing the most obvious/unfair unavoidable threats is that once those are gone something else is the most obvious/unfair 09:20:28 the kobold zaps a funky wand. The bolt of electricilty hit you. OUCH. You die. It was a wand of lightning. :P 09:20:37 it seems a lot has been done already in that regard 09:21:01 potions of berserk rage used to be very rare. 09:21:48 might be good to just figure out what a good amount of early unavoidable deaths would be and then work towards that instead... 09:21:55 galehar: yes, but it's our choice what we think is acceptable. 09:22:06 For me, we wouldn't even have to change status quo. 09:22:14 Players will always complain about the early game. 09:22:36 has Grinder surpassed Sigmund in kill percentage? 09:23:11 the early game is often pretty uninteresting IMO 09:23:25 it provides a different experience from the rest of crawl, and i really prefer the rest of crawl 09:23:41 but opinions on that will always differ 09:23:50 but yes, we have to stop before everyone can reliably pass D:2 :P 09:24:32 Everyone should be able to pass D:2 as a MDFi. Not everyone should be able to pass as a FEWz 09:25:00 bmh: what if the MDFi gets unlucky and is faced with a D:2 centaur? 09:25:20 galefury: "Should be able to pass with a high probability" 09:26:59 i wonder how death locations vary for good and not so good players 09:28:09 but i forgot all the fancy bot commands :( 09:28:32 I wouldn't say I'm bad at crawl, just exceedingly careless. I had a spectacular death where I walked into the minotaur and got hit with a +12,+6 whip {drain} 09:28:44 heh 09:29:32 I had swiftness and blink available. I simply accidentally hit 'l' 7 or 8 times.. 09:30:15 the only lategame unavoidable death i had has since been "fixed" 09:30:26 storm dragon in zot after turning a corner, no relec 09:30:40 dlk quit crawl aftering losing a XL27 HECr in Zig:26 09:30:44 or well, might have had a few more, but thats the one i remember 09:31:14 Napkin: you're playing the wrong game! 09:31:30 the FSF isn't looking for sysadmins with high DCSS scores: http://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-seeks-full-time-senior-gnu-linux-systems-administrator 09:31:46 mmh, full time? 09:31:53 bhaak: ? 09:32:07 ah 09:32:34 although I don't know if you're already old enough to be "senior" :-) 09:32:36 bhaak: I don't know if it would help any, but I have a few friends at that poffice. 09:33:19 bmh: you're obviously not good at marketing DCSS :-) 09:34:19 it's a bit surprising that soldering, making your own ethernet cable and high nethack score are grouped together :) 09:34:43 well, its all not that relevant to being a sysadmin 09:34:45 bhaak: It makes sense. They're looking for someone obsessive. 09:35:11 working at the FSF isn't being obsessive enough? 09:35:35 The guys I know there are both pretty normal. 09:35:36 i'm not qualified enough.. no BGP, no "high proficiency" in one of perl, php, python, ruby, no extremely high nethack scores ;) 09:35:39 or having to call linux "GNU/Linux"? 09:35:58 linux is called linux 09:36:08 i guess not at the FSF :) 09:36:12 linux with tools is called GNU/Linux, which is the correct term 09:36:21 aka distribution 09:36:25 Don't troll rms by calling GNU/Linux "linux". It's ugly. 09:37:08 i know, i've seen it once at a speech of him 09:37:14 Napkin: is not!!11elf 09:37:18 rms isn't here, right? 09:37:29 not right now ;> 09:37:40 GNU/Linux is pretty inaccurate too for most widely-used Linux-based systems 09:37:53 it's accurate for something like server Debian, but not for typical desktop systems 09:37:56 not at all, it's a good term 09:37:59 years ago a classmate of mine approached RMS after a talk and quite intentionally asked "What's your favorite part of Linux?" 09:38:05 well, then why don't you call it GNU/Linux/Xorg/Gnome/Perl/BSD/thousand-of-other-important-bits ? 09:38:29 I think the DE and the kernel are possibly the most important components, so I'd probably go with just, say, Gnome/Linux 09:38:41 although GNU should probably get a mention purely because of the libc 09:39:18 * kilobyte goes to rebuild stuff against dietlibc/klibc/uclibc, using dash as the shell, ... 09:39:27 kilobyte: did you bump into my friend at DebConf? 09:39:32 I've used Busybox/uclibc/Linux systems before now 09:39:34 no GNU anywhere 09:39:51 unless you count BusyBox as a GNU deriv 09:40:15 this is futile 09:40:17 I'd call it a POSIX deriv really 09:40:52 bmh: probably but I'm afraid I forgot the name you gave me so I missed any connection 09:41:35 hey bmh, btw 09:41:39 tried to catch you 09:41:46 have you looked into osx builds again? 09:41:54 Napkin: sorry, my mac has been acting up. It needs to go into the shop. 09:42:02 ah, pity 09:42:05 but expected ;> 09:42:05 I'm going to be away until the end of September 09:42:19 no sweat 09:42:31 someone yesterday volunteered to build some packages, too 09:42:39 oh, awesome. Take 'em up on it 09:42:40 you can join once you're back :) 09:42:49 deal. 09:43:10 I'll try to set up a secret DCSS buildfarm at work :) 09:43:18 haha 09:43:21 :D 09:43:36 we need fast armel builds! ;) 09:43:43 won't be secret for long, considering how it drags down your computer when compiling ;-) 09:44:39 just make it cloudy enough :) 09:48:25 how come I can't burn web traps with fire spells? 09:48:41 st__: because fire is magical? 09:52:18 st__: they're much bigger, thicker webs than normal spiders; remember spider silk is actually tougher than diamond 09:52:23 [ waves hands some more ] 09:52:43 st__: write the code you want to see in the world :) 09:55:29 st__: but it was intentional, fire already deals with lots of things (bushes, wax) - having yet another environmental effect negated by it is a bit boring. the idea for spider is for T&D to be relevant 09:57:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:18 it did occur to me that cold could be relevant; i.e. you could freeze the webs so they crack when you walk through; but i didn't propose it yet, need the core mechanics working and tested before thinking about anything more complex 10:00:16 they should probably be more similar to magical traps, anyone with EV will never get caught in one it seems 10:01:04 Napkin: no need to build stuff natively; it's only Mac that has no free toolchain 10:01:25 kilobyte: I hate the Mac toolchain. I can't use Guile 2.x 10:01:48 yeah, i was just kidding 10:02:01 wish we could cross-compile osx packages 10:03:07 st__: perhaps, the ev check could be removed entirely, if a web is covering a corridor there shouldn't be any way to dodge it. it's also generally broken due to a legacy from the nets code it was based on. 10:09:23 mumra: casters already have a better time there, I wouldn't give tome some additional candy 10:09:38 removing EV check is good, I support it 10:09:53 You have a T&D check to spot it; a Str check to tear through it. That's sufficient. 10:15:39 -!- [1]mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:39 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:39 -!- [1]mumra is now known as mumra 10:22:02 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:03 maybe they could have a low chance of being generated discovered. Like shafts. Just for the atmosphere. 10:22:43 galehar: good points 10:37:41 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:41 -!- galefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110701115916]] 10:47:56 -!- Guest25117 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:01:10 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:00 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:14:33 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 11:24:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:15 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:15 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 11:24:15 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:43 -!- bmh has quit [Client Quit] 11:25:15 does anyone know how to change a floor tile in LUA ? 11:25:39 (using x,y coords - i.e. not FTILE) 11:28:12 mumra, mapgrd[x][y] = some_glyph, then ftile that glyph? 11:29:36 Zaba: it's not during vault placement, trying to do it from a trigger - will ftile still work then ? 11:29:51 no 11:29:59 i just looked at disco hall and noticed a comment there about not being about to change tiles, so i guess it can't be done yet 11:31:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:27 shame, had a neat idea for a fedhas altar 11:32:17 if it requires fiddling with tiles, it can't be neat by definition :P 11:33:28 :) 11:33:37 ok then, a very complex but cool idea :P 11:35:46 if it requires tiles, it can't be neat by definition 11:36:39 we'd need the ability to alter tile flavours from lua 11:36:56 it'll work great in console, i can dgn.change_floor_colour 11:38:39 kilobyte: yes 11:38:52 I've been asking for quite some time to have COLOUR apply to tiles. 11:38:57 But Enne said it's hard to do. 11:39:27 changing floor colors is a questionable gimmick even in console 11:39:29 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:38 then screw tiles for now -- remember, colour is only eyecandy not needed for the actual gameplay. A nice vault with funky looks must be functional if we forget colours. 11:40:25 Zaba: if you're talking about a second disco hall, I agree 11:40:56 there are other uses for changing floors, though -- like showing a vanishing path the player can follow, etc 11:41:10 I mostly referred to dynamically changing floor colors 11:41:33 yeah it wasn't anything earth-shattering, just trying to implement some vault ideas i had, and see what could be done with LUA really 11:41:35 Now there are working crawl package on Maemo5's extras-devel repository 11:41:45 aapo: <3 11:41:59 but even just recoloring a feature with COLOUR might sometimes be more confusion than it's worth 11:42:20 It needs one weird modifications: cio.h:138 CK_ENTER = -1010, any ideas about that? 11:42:39 i think in this one case it wouldn't cause any problems - but i could see how it could 11:42:39 it's different if you also change names and descriptions, then it's clear and well-defined flavour and can be good 11:42:55 the idea was a fedhas altar where grass and plants grow outwards from it on a timer 11:42:57 N900-phone has one enter/return key and it is not producing '\r' (=13), but -1010 11:43:05 aapo: in tiles or console? 11:43:10 console 11:43:14 mumra: galehar suggested that a few webs are known, like for shafts. What do you think? 11:43:14 yeah, that's KPAD_ENTER 11:43:26 kilobyte: tiles is not tested yet 11:43:32 dpeg: sounds good, i'm all for atmosphere 11:43:49 dpeg: perhaps even most 11:43:50 what % of shafts start off known ? 11:44:05 kilobyte: but then we lose the T&D appeal of the branch 11:44:13 mumra: decreases with depth 11:44:17 !tell Napkin I've updated the 0.9 mac binaries at http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/~abecker/crawl/ to be compatible with 10.4, and I have a script for producing a nightly mac build for the trunk, so we can start putting things on cdo any time 11:44:18 one drawback: can't play game over ssh (server runs on phone and client on keyboard) 11:44:32 greatzebu: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 11:44:35 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:01 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:12 dpeg: even if all were known, you can still have an easier time avoiding them. Remember, target layouts are closed. 11:46:16 I know that GLES is work in progress, but should I file bugs for my foundings? 11:46:48 no one of us has a clue about it :( 11:47:11 kilobyte: I see what you mean. But if most webs are hidden, then T&D is even more attractive. 11:47:19 * Zaba can't even texture a cube in opengl 11:48:12 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:29 kilobyte: I had a problem with the rltiles makefile overwriting CXX from the main makefile and losing important flags, but I'm not sure if it's a bug or a symptom of me not understanding the build system very well 11:49:31 not sure if I should file a patch, just keep my local modification to the makefile, or what 11:50:00 is this file 'glwrapper-ogl' written for crawl or for something else earlier? 11:56:11 no tiles experts anymore in the core team =( 11:57:49 greatzebu: you know rltiles generates c code for all the tile enums ? 11:58:04 not sure if that's relevant 11:58:26 mumra: i don't have any experience with rtiles, aside from mucking with its makefile so that it would compile for me 11:59:08 the issue was just that i needed some architecture-specific flags passed into gcc, which the main makefile figured out just fine, but they didn't propagate to the rltiles build 11:59:41 sounds like a cool system though :-) 12:06:25 i know nothing about makefiles :) just noticed that header getting overwritten (originally i thought it needed updating by hand) 12:07:28 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:54 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:22 -!- CoffeeOblivion has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:40 hey greatzebu 12:18:40 Napkin: You have 15 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:18:45 have you got a minute? 12:19:01 Napkin: sure 12:19:08 I have updated binaries, too 12:19:18 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:37 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:07 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:29 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:30 you are seeing my private message, greatzebu? 12:23:21 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:37 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:18 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 12:35:52 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:01 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:19 kilobyte? 12:56:21 Napkin: meow? 12:56:40 the installer.exe of 0.9 actually has the .txt files in place 12:56:57 seems to be only missing from the zips - verifying right now 12:59:13 yes, missing from both zips 13:01:30 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:04 btw, kilobyte, why the hell was there that ukrainian song in polish radio all the time during my vacations?! https://develz.org/music/enej_-_radio_hello.m4a 13:04:24 and yeah, of course couldn't get out of my head anymore ;) 13:04:46 dpeg: Am noe 13:04:47 ghallberg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:04:51 !messageds 13:04:52 tell me it was a regional thing.. and that mountain people are weird ;> 13:04:52 !messages 13:04:53 (1/1) kilobyte said (4h 50m 38s ago): could you please explain what "the Seeker" in your patch is supposed to do? It's unused and may cause misalignment -- did you mean to write "Vampire Seeker **...." or such? 13:05:19 well, there's usually regular junk you can hear on the whole world... 13:05:22 dpeg: Yeah, I was thinking of doing that but let it be, guess I missed removing it. 13:05:59 yeah, yeah, but this one i can try to blame you for :-P 13:06:28 03kilobyte * rcf837b3c8516 10/crawl-ref/source/ (17 files in 3 dirs): ontoclasm's Crypt metal walls, and an update to stone. 13:08:09 !tell dpeg It was supposed to be something like you suggested, but I decided against it... Apperantly forgot to remove that. 13:08:10 ghallberg: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:08:50 !tell dpeg I realized it doesn't do anything for Xom as it is now, and I'm not sure how he works. Does he give better results with higher piety? 13:08:51 ghallberg: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:08:55 the seeker's supposed to look for the golden snitch, right 13:09:12 BlastHardcheese: Or a god, whichever comes first 13:09:25 fr: golden snitch fixedart 13:09:30 a seeker is not supposed to look for popular culture references where they don't belong, though 13:09:53 Zaba: I blame BlastHardcheese. 13:10:22 * Zaba git blames BlastHardcheese 13:11:17 but i'm not a dev :S 13:11:30 BlastHardcheese: Doesn't matter. 13:11:36 git blame hits everyone. 13:11:39 it's like karma. 13:13:19 it wouldn't work in my case, I wrote a couple of lines for Crawl but someone else committed them 13:13:32 although, maybe it would, I did the git patch-sending thing, so maybe it preserved author info that way 13:13:52 yes, git makes a distinction between the author and the committer 13:14:48 Zaba: only if the commit was actually made by that person, though. Commit, not patch. 13:15:14 well, yes. 13:18:56 kilobyte: another bug, it seems: the build processes for osx copies all pngs from dat/tiles/ additionally to the main folder beside dat/docs/settings 13:19:25 greatzebu is currently confirming they are indeed duplicate and not required there 13:20:08 possible, can't check that right now though (will be back later) 13:20:19 sure, sure, just mentioning 13:20:32 of course, it'd be better to fix this in the official makefile rather than private scripts 13:20:43 as always 13:21:03 kilobyte: I will submit some changes to the mac bundle makefile that implement the tweaks Napkin and I are doing now 13:24:16 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:29 that would be awesome, greatzebu 13:27:52 Misc vaults and altars (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4478) by mumra 13:35:18 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:52 mumra: hot stuff 13:39:53 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:40:31 Folks, what do you think about the more elaborate vaults, especially those which use lua functions at the top of the file. Are we better with putting each of those maps in an individual file? 13:40:35 !messages 13:40:35 (1/3) syraine said (6h 33m 3s ago): something horrifying 13:40:38 !messages 13:40:38 (1/2) ghallberg said (32m 28s ago): It was supposed to be something like you suggested, but I decided against it... Apperantly forgot to remove that. 13:40:44 !messages 13:40:45 (1/1) ghallberg said (31m 54s ago): I realized it doesn't do anything for Xom as it is now, and I'm not sure how he works. Does he give better results with higher piety? 13:41:38 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:22 !tell ghallberg Xom uses piety for mood, though. So having a Monk start with a more sanguine Xom sounds good to me. 13:42:23 dpeg: OK, I'll let ghallberg know. 13:43:00 Well, then I'd need to do it differently, cause now it uses gain_piety(), which doesn't do anything if you.religion == GOD_XOM 13:43:01 ghallberg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:43:07 !messages 13:43:09 (1/1) dpeg said (47s ago): Xom uses piety for mood, though. So having a Monk start with a more sanguine Xom sounds good to me. 13:45:13 yes, Xom might warrant a special cased 13:45:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:41 I was thinking something like "if (you.religion == GOD_XOM){you.piety += } 13:47:09 possibly 13:47:23 I hope the xom file has a description of what piety means in this context. 13:47:31 Not really :( 13:47:43 (It is symmetric around 100, but I don't know if 0 or 200 mean teddy bear.) 13:48:47 >180 is teddy bear 13:48:59 dunno what's a good place to put it, mayb 140? 13:49:10 or 135, in line with the +35 for others. 13:52:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:21 ghallberg: yes, 135 sounds good 14:04:57 dpeg: Should I just pull latest and change the stuff that was wrong then? 14:06:03 ghallberg: yes, that'd be great 14:06:10 I'll get on it then. 14:06:23 Remove "seeker" stuff, add XOM stuff 14:10:41 dpeg: What should I put in ^-screen? 14:12:45 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:35 When you take on a god, you will start as a particularly pious follower." 14:17:25 god, it's rebuilding everything >.< 14:17:30 Just a proposal, of course, don't like it this =) 14:17:46 I'll go with thtat for my test at least :) 14:22:20 How do I leave a religion? 14:22:25 I am a German, please modify the sentences I eject. 14:22:31 Hehe 14:22:39 I'm Swedish, I'm not much better. 14:22:53 If someone feels like correcting us, they're free to do so ;) 14:27:07 hmm, I'm native (British) English, and dpeg's phrasing is pretty good 14:27:18 I don't like "take on" 14:27:28 also "when" :P 14:27:41 if you chose? 14:27:43 (can demigods be monks?) 14:28:00 Yeah. 14:28:06 "The first god you convert to will consider you especially pious", perhaps? 14:28:11 I special cased that once, already, thanks for reminding me. 14:28:12 (no line there for DG as it's irrelevant) 14:28:50 "The gods are impressed with your pious background." 14:30:01 Zannick: that's a bit less explicit, but stronger on the flavour 14:30:09 i like flavour :) 14:30:36 I like explicit :) 14:30:37 plus the message won't appear after you start worshipping a god 14:30:42 although flavour makes a nice secondary thing to use 14:31:13 "The gods are impressed with your spiritual strength:" 14:31:15 ? 14:31:36 I'd submit a bug report against that message 14:31:45 as as a player, I'd have no idea what it was meant to mean 14:31:46 haha :P 14:32:00 OK .P 14:32:29 pious background it is I guess :) 14:32:29 We could do the flavourful message followed by a more explicit one 14:32:42 I think it's important to put the word "pious" or "piety" in there somewhere 14:32:46 "The gods are impressed with your pious background. The first god you worship..." 14:32:47 so players know exactly what's being boosted 14:34:54 I'm too tired to make a good message tonight... 14:34:59 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:03 Now I've fixed some bugs at least... 14:35:15 Like it not caring whether it was the first god... 14:35:16 :D 14:36:26 I guess that line would replace the regular one? 14:38:48 the regular one being "You do not worship a god"? 14:39:01 i think that should stay... 14:39:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:53 "You are not religious." 14:40:07 Doesn't mesh to well with your pious background 14:40:25 ah, yes. 14:40:28 slightly different. 14:41:51 Honestly I'm about to fall asleep. I'm gonna leave it as it is now, if someone hates it I'll change it later. 14:41:59 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-429-gcf837b3 14:43:59 dpeg: I put up a new patch for the fixes. 14:48:04 <3 14:48:43 ghallberg: not worth to spend ages on messages. Impossible to make everyone happy, but thinking/talking a little bit about will in general improve matters. Thanks everyone! 14:48:54 btw, did someone state an opinion on the .des file affairß 14:49:09 !lm * br.enter=spider v=0.10-a0 14:49:09 75. [2011-08-31] Surr the Cloud Mage (L12 VpSu) entered a Spider's Nest on turn 18284. (Lair:7) 14:49:26 looks like the fix for that worked :) 14:53:19 Update makefiles to facilitate mac nightlies (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4479) by GreatZebu 14:55:28 dpeg: was having a lie down, just saw your comment 14:55:55 might be an idea to have more separate .des files, can get difficult to work on when the LUA is so far from the map definition 14:56:01 e.g. in altar.des 14:57:53 or at least subgroup a bit; altar_xom.des, altar_trog.des, etc. 14:57:55 maybe we could change the .des parser to allow multiple blocks of lua throughout the file instead of just one at the top 14:58:08 assuming that isn't possible now 14:58:10 well, that would also help things 14:58:27 you *can* intersperse LUA, but global functions have to be defined right at the start 14:58:51 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-429-gcf837b3 15:05:19 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:07 mumra: yes, that's what I've been doing so far 15:16:18 splitting des files into smaller pieces, sometimes adding a folder 15:16:37 but here my question is if it's reasonable to just put one elaborate vault into a single des file 15:17:14 I might be doing this already with the insanely big trap vaults.... hm 15:19:13 Isn't that basically what the Sprints are? 15:19:38 well, those are HUGE 15:20:56 i noticed a lot of the traps are in their own files 15:21:43 tbh, i can't see it having any significant effect on either load times or install size, and it's much easier to work that way 15:22:27 mumra: okay, that seems to indicate smaller files = better. 15:22:46 You have to explain a little more where you find what, but the files themselves are much more readable. 15:23:13 You probably won't believe it, but we started with all vaults (floats, branch ends, Zot, everything) in a single file :) 15:24:07 i can imagine :) but there probably weren't thousands of the things back then ! 15:25:01 mmm, vaults 15:25:37 mumra: 4b26 had a number of minivaults (all 12x12 back then), as well as many large maps. 15:30:55 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/osx-builds-back-on-track 15:36:55 i blame greatzebu! 15:37:13 i blame Napkin! 15:37:40 i just asked, you agreed ;-P 15:38:00 you are still the instigator 15:38:12 The blame is always for free. 15:38:21 hehe 15:38:43 Why does the unique placement system use the vaults code? For cases like Yiuf? 15:38:56 Napkin: I see that you managed to nail greatzebu to the sky, where he has to compile Mac binaries for an eternity. A good move! 15:39:05 so, we have windows builds stable/master, debian builds stable/master and osx stable/master now :) 15:39:09 dtsund: because it's good to have it outside the code 15:39:14 Ashenzebu 15:39:20 rofl 15:39:31 !coffee greatzebu 15:39:32 * Henzell hands greatzebu a mug of caffè breve, brewed by Gastronok. 15:39:44 nah, i just nailed cron to the sky, it's taking care of the compilation for me 15:39:59 recursive sky nailing, I see 15:40:03 haha, thanks. i will drink it with great satisfaction 15:40:13 Eh, I just nailed gcc to the sky. 15:40:27 Donald gave me some good speech in my last tournament game: "I have been nailed to the sky as well. No big deal, really." 15:40:44 good stuff :-) 15:40:53 so.. is anyone still using the "Stable Games CAO & CDO" scoring overview? 15:41:02 Napkin: where is it? 15:41:03 Took me a while to figure out the unique path was like that, though, and why Mennas wasn't getting the band I gave him 15:41:04 erm.. i mean, would anyone like to? 15:41:27 well, we have http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/overview.html listing all games, and we have http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring-stable/overview.html listing only stable games 15:42:00 but, -stable is out of order at the moment 15:42:13 hm, I never use the stable bit 15:42:15 i would fix it, if it's actually interesting to people? 15:42:20 total usage is what counts for me 15:42:38 Napkin: cannot imagine ... if you really want, there is always !lg and friends. 15:42:47 because.. if it's not needed, it would one less daemon running on CAO 15:42:53 kick it out 15:43:16 * dpeg hands Napkin a holy scourge for demon killing. 15:44:04 done, link from wordpress removed 15:45:39 root@crash:~> lsof -n -p $(ps -ef | grep webtiles | grep -v grep | awk '{ print $2 }') | wc -l 15:45:42 1439 15:45:47 this is soooooo not good :) 15:46:08 webtiles daemon will stop working, when it reaches 2048 15:46:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:46:52 -!- aapo has left ##crawl-dev 15:47:01 1277 tcp connections.. 15:47:21 emclar (L4 FeSu) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Ossuary) 15:48:37 !tell edlothiol webtiles deamon running for 10 days: 1277 TCP connections "ESTABLISHED" :-/ 15:48:37 Napkin: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 15:53:38 Spider webs further patches (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4480) by mumra 15:58:40 merfolk aquamancer spawned in a rock wall (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4481) by st 15:59:33 fr: rock wall tides :P 16:00:23 dpeg: was just wondering why all 'I' are immume to webs ? 16:02:07 mumra: hm, no idea 16:02:45 it was in the wiki proposal, butt that's just ice/sky beasts. kilobyte asked also. 16:02:58 mumra: webs safe for travel is good; the game will prefer non-webs and it won't travel with monsters in sight anyway. 16:03:12 dpeg: i thought so 16:03:15 mumra: I copied that from the original proposal, still no idea. 16:03:42 i'm inclined to un-immune them, doesn't seem to be a good reason 16:03:46 yes 16:03:53 they're not native there anyway 16:04:02 for ice beast it matters, because of the Sum spell 16:06:30 now i'm just trying to figure out why you can apparently fly harmlessly thru webs, even tho you shouldn't able to 16:07:05 for the other problems (net graphic appears, can break out too easily) i really can't see another way than creating a new ENCH effect 16:08:25 yes 16:11:56 regarding des files, I think I'll turn altar.des into altar/ with a number of files 16:12:27 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:31 good plan 16:29:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:41 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:00 mumra: I'm having bad problems applying your patches, as they are based on a wildly divergent tree and "git am" and friends are exceptionally weak when they have no ancestry data. 16:40:34 mumra: could you push your tree to somewhere I could pull from? 16:42:23 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:45 kilobyte; yeah i was gonna ask if that might be easier. actually i think the main thing is i forgot to merge in trunk. is the best thing if i create a branch on gitorious ? 16:50:10 gitorious or any place like that, yeah 16:52:12 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:44 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:21:23 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:08 wow that was complicated 17:29:16 tbh i'm utterly noob with git 17:30:36 so, most recent six commits at: https://gitorious.org/~mumra/crawl/mumra-dev/commits/webmerge 17:30:52 ugh, if you had problems, you could say so 17:32:53 not huge problems, it just took a while 17:33:33 yeah, it's just that your time is not worthless 17:34:25 true :) 17:35:06 i just spent about 10 minutes trying to work out which passphrase i created my ssh key with, not something you could have really helped with ! 17:37:15 :p 17:38:20 and figuring out how resolve works in smartgit, realising i needed to register an email alias because my key was for a different address, just loads of bits like that - was about to ask for help if i hadn't figured it out just then 17:47:43 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:45 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: greatzebu] 17:57:33 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:35 looking at the altars, I wonder if there's any reason not to make the special-god altars all overflowing 18:01:52 special-god altars? 18:02:02 are those special altars, or altars for special gods? 18:03:09 there are some altars that are special by being eg. for the good gods -- cannot make those overflowing without effort 18:03:38 but other "special" altars are to just one god... and those can 18:07:46 oh, you mean altar vaults with multiple gosd? 18:07:48 gods * 18:15:14 no no 18:15:27 I am trying to explain what I mean in the header files 18:20:33 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:14 -!- GreatZebu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:26 03MarvinPA * r023371366aba 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large.des: Make the frost giant in a potentially early vault patrolling 18:38:45 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:00 kilobyte: i redid the cobweb graphics. i'm worried i improved them worse :S 18:40:17 but i filled in those missing ones 18:41:55 if you think the old version is better, letting them stay is always an option :p 18:42:09 03GreatZebu * rcc3e1d6d1842 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mac/Makefile.app-bundle rltiles/Makefile): Makefile changes to facilitate correctly formatted mac nightly builds 18:42:09 03kilobyte * r56831463bdeb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Whitespace fixes. 18:42:11 03mumra * rd4c2cb435a9a 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Assume webs are safe for travel 18:42:11 03mumra * r58621856c284 10/crawl-ref/source/effects.cc: Passive web placement increases with spider branch depth 18:42:11 03mumra * rbf3504a7db42 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Remove EV check for web traps 18:42:11 03mumra * r3980de707eae 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Pre-reveal some webs (less the deeper you are in the branch) 18:42:11 03mumra * r0687b1ffdda1 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Ice and Sky Beasts had no good reason to be immune to webs 18:42:11 03mumra * r3532e03ba639 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Made flying creatures affected by webs 18:42:12 03kilobyte * r97f9eea98671 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Reveal a fixed 50% of webs. 18:42:12 03kilobyte * r372c5066a8f6 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix nets never being generated by disarming net traps. 18:43:05 yeah, i'm not adverse to that. i'll see what others think tho, now i've done them. i think these new ones are slightly too cartoony, they don't fit the art style. but maybe i've been looking at them too long ;) 18:45:14 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:11 i've pushed them to that branch anyway, if you want a look. can't look at them any more right now, i feel like i'm stuck in a web myself :) 18:48:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:50 mumra: your new vaults will come tomorrow, today I just managed to clean up the altar maps a little. 18:56:11 03dpeg * re02afb39a5aa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Slicing altar.des into pieces. 18:56:14 Hehe, galehar reacted a little annoyed on the forum. I hope I helped him out. 19:02:04 :) 19:02:26 i've had a crazy idea about how to marry those two door god ideas 19:02:49 mumra: this is good! Tell us 19:03:04 i was thinking, if there were both gods, they'd HATE each other - one wants doors open, one wants them closed 19:03:16 kind of like a couple bickering over whether the toilet seat should be up or down 19:03:27 like a couple after a few years :) 19:03:30 hehe, yes 19:03:32 yeah lol 19:03:54 then i thought ... what if it was just one bi-polar god 19:04:04 so you worship one god but get two personalities 19:04:15 sometimes you have to open doors, sometimes close them 19:04:19 who/what changes mode? 19:04:30 ... that i'm not sure 19:04:44 it could just be a terrible idea, but kind of funny 19:04:53 :) 19:05:14 something like this can be done, I am sure 19:05:22 for example, vampires bring their own modality 19:05:28 there could be various traits that switch drastically from time to time 19:05:28 just need some thematic excuse 19:06:13 maybe every time you take a portal / stairs it switches 19:06:26 that's probably too direct 19:07:48 it could be about balance 19:08:38 you get good powers if you're in "new beginnings, open doors" mode, but after using them for a while, it is time for "security, closed door" policy 19:09:33 it's also starting to sound like that feng shui god a little 19:10:16 I didn't read that properly... "door god" motivates me, "feng shui" does not 19:10:54 doors in north-south walls needs to be closed, doors in east-west ones opened? 19:11:07 :) 19:11:10 lol 19:11:18 the idea of using ToD in some way is good, imo 19:11:58 no, feng shui god didn't grab me either - i just had a better read and it's pretty weak 19:12:29 there are some good god ideas on the wiki, read wasp, for example 19:12:33 ToD - you mean T&D ? 19:12:45 no, Tomb of Dorokhloe 19:12:48 ahh 19:14:06 can't find wasp god 19:14:35 read wasp == literate red wasp? 19:14:48 the wasp god proposal 19:14:56 never even heard of this 19:14:56 look under Other Gods 19:14:57 a very well read wasp indeed 19:15:50 oh *wow*, never even knew this page existed :P 19:16:24 yes, it has some good ideas 19:16:31 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:35 it was a pain to collect all the proposals into a place, though 19:18:04 dpeg: should I sed altar_shining_one into altar_the_shining_one? 19:18:34 nice, a poison / stabby god 19:18:52 kilobyte: if it's quick, yes please 19:18:57 that lets you lay eggs in things :) 19:19:01 yes 19:19:05 galehar would love it 19:22:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:25 mumra, Wensley: if you make comments (hopefully better than "this would be cool!" :), that always helps 19:27:18 * due waves dpeg. 19:27:26 hiya! 19:32:58 dpeg: that's quite a lot to read :P instead, I think I'll make that forum post now asking for people to vote for implementables 19:33:12 Wensley: good! 19:33:54 i'm not sure i can think of anything to add right now; too busy thinking about doors, and webs ;) 19:34:35 hehe 19:34:51 i'm gradually convincing myself there's something in this dual-god idea, and definitely what you said about balance 19:35:11 maybe there's two sets of abilities, and if you can keep things in harmony you get to use both sets 19:35:37 and it could actually be two gods that *are* a couple - they come as a package 19:35:56 they hate each other but need each other kind of thing 19:37:23 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:11 03MarvinPA 07demons * rf5427fd22152 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Add Mass Abjuration to the Grand Grimoire, make normal Abjuration properly smite-targeted 19:38:13 03MarvinPA 07demons * rcfe1c7b6c375 10/crawl-ref/ (797 files in 68 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into demons 19:38:21 yay 19:39:00 ooh nice 19:39:04 smite-targetted abjuration ++ 19:39:13 MarvinPA: have you changed the mechanics of abjuration at all? 19:39:46 not particularly, it's just split into a single-target version and the mass version (which is higher level and identical to the current spell) 19:40:08 and doy actually did it a while back, i just brought it back up to date with master :) 19:40:38 (identical to the current spell other than being higher level, obviously) 19:42:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 19:51:26 I am still meh about how it works. 19:56:16 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:45 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:56 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 20:01:52 -!- hoody_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:13 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:28 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:19 mumra: cobweb_none.png is significantly different from the rest 20:05:55 kilobyte: it's not used any more 20:06:01 -!- jlewis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:04 there are cobweb_none0..5.png 20:06:10 03kilobyte * r876bf1430d06 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Make altar_shining_one consistent with other uses (always the article). 20:06:10 03kilobyte * rc9918169d10a 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Return a value out of bounds on an invalid letter_to_index(). 20:06:10 03kilobyte * r9edce5a9f90a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: A vault. 20:06:20 03kilobyte * rb2123c2cca36 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Put some webs in old_forge. 20:06:21 03kilobyte * r935c39413191 10/crawl-ref/source/ (misc.cc traps.cc): Fix a few cases of webs talking about nets. 20:07:38 i thought cobweb_none stood out more than the rest because you see it on its own; so i made a few versions 20:07:48 and forgot to delete the old one 20:08:56 ah, ok 20:09:02 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:17 i just had another look at the game and the new webs don't look as bad as i was thinking, but i still need some sort of middle ground between the old and new. some look good, some are a bit scrappy 20:09:46 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:50 on the other hand; maybe an actual artist will sort them all out at some point, and i should stop worrying at it ... but i'm actually enjoying having a reason to use my drawing tablet ;) 20:11:22 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:43 -!- jlewis has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:52 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:14:02 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 20:21:18 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:32 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:54 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:25:52 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:50 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:05 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:24 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:47 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:15 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:26 Potion of experience did not raise skill levels (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4482) by GeSSo 22:18:22 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:20:40 Warn the player when they leave a level with a unique Pan rune (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4483) by GreatZebu 22:23:56 -!- st__ has quit [] 22:24:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:22 -!- Garhauk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:48:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 22:58:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:11 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:49 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:49 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 23:40:41 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:43:43 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:49:01 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:54 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]