00:14:04 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:09 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:13 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:10 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:35 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:17 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:25:35 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:49 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:13 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:42 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:39:39 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:00 Crawl crashed when pressing 'X', to access the global map (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4433) by robotoloco 00:50:47 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:53:28 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-338-gdf459dd (32) 02:05:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:23 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:04 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:07 hi all 02:43:07 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:43:14 hi dpeg 02:43:35 MAc users feel neglected. Shall we add a link to the binaries on the CDO/CAO homepages? 02:43:38 !messages 02:43:38 (1/1) galehar said (10h 36m 5s ago): +1 for defaulting equip_unequip to true 02:44:06 due: do you agree with galehar? The longterm plan is to deprecate the R and P commands. 02:44:23 Oh, definitely. 02:44:30 cool, only support so far 02:44:42 Keskitalo has to be in favour, for principal reasons :) 02:44:56 The ability to remove equipped armour specifically without replacing it is useful -- i.e., you accidentally equipped a shitty randart shield, say. 02:45:15 due: yes, but you could do so from W/P. 02:45:30 sorry, when I said removal of R and P, I meant removal of T and R. 02:45:33 And I was about to say "so it would be nice to be able to do it via W/P". 02:45:39 :) 02:45:53 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:46:26 due: the only loss (in terms of keystrokes) is if you use exactly one jewellery item -- currently you can remove that with a single R keystroke. I don't think this nicety is worth having two more commands to learn, though. 02:46:42 that reminds me, I read up to what I think was the argument against merging W/P (that W/P allow the player to see all armour/jewellery, respectively), but I still think it wouldn't be a bad thing to conflate them in such a manner (indeed, if anything, I think it would be for the better) 02:47:16 monqy: here I disagree 02:47:42 I play on standard console, and very often the combined lists of armour and jewellery are longer than a screen 02:47:50 hm 02:48:20 hi 02:48:25 hi galehar! 02:48:33 it is also a matter of focus: if you press the combined command on behalf of jewellery, your eyes have to scan for the jewellery section 02:49:48 (as an example of how annoying this can be, try using \ when you already know a lot of items and are interested in the presence/absence of a particular potion) 02:50:08 would it be possible to display armour and jewellery on two columns? 02:50:27 i guess long inscriptions would get truncated that way 02:50:52 evilmike: was also suggested yesterday 02:51:06 this could be optional for large screens 02:51:29 for standard 80x24 you'd lose information on randart inscriptions, which can be exactly what you are looking for :) 02:53:02 dpeg: O 02:53:14 dpeg: I'm also for removing R/T 02:53:17 If I count :) 02:54:12 ghallberg: O? 02:55:33 I considered the length problem as a reason against merging r/q/e/V, but the problem of focus makes an especially good point there; if any of those should be merged, it should only be r/q, or perhaps r/q/V, but then it would certainly grow too long 02:56:13 r and q seem pretty unrelated to me 02:56:23 even more so than q and e, for instance 02:56:44 Zaba: what do you think on incorporating R/T into W/P? 02:57:04 scrolls and potions are used in similar situations for similar reasons; the same doesn't quite apply to food and potions 02:57:24 note that you can always just look at the inventory and choose an item from there 02:57:27 dpeg: just fail. 02:57:45 ghallberg: was wondering whether you wanted to bring autoexplore into the picture :) 02:57:49 dpeg, I guess some players would be against making that a non-option 02:57:58 dpeg: Yeah remove it. Too many long lists already >.> 02:58:29 Zaba: but that is true for every interface change 02:58:36 and we had a number of key command changes 02:59:31 Zaba: r/q both contain tactical alternatives, i.e. they are related in a game sense. q/e are only related by flavour. 03:00:06 Zaba: we would keep R/T for at least two versions, just not announced it anymore in help and tutorials 03:00:23 and eventually, we'd print "use W to disrobe" when a player presses T 03:01:35 is there something R/T will be used for after their curret function is removed? 03:01:49 rip/tear 03:02:47 because, well, freeing up keystrokes for a specific purpose is one thing, but freeing them up just because is another 03:03:08 Zaba: the motivation comes from Keskitalo's usability tests. 03:03:28 The learning curve for a new player is very steep. Getting rid of two important, but not really necessary commands would help. 03:03:33 then it should be enough to just remove them from tutorial and docs and make equip_unequip default 03:03:43 yes 03:03:59 but you'll see, in two or so versions, someone will have plans with R and T :) 03:06:18 maybe. But as long as it's not strictly necessary, I wouldn't actually remove their current functionality 03:06:52 Zaba: It gives us more room for the future and removes unnecessary stuff from the code base. 03:07:10 is it really that much of a change to the code base? 03:07:10 -!- Zaba has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:30 monqy: Probably not, but it's some. 03:07:34 right 03:07:37 http://www.rakaka.se/?newsID=17631 03:07:40 oops 03:07:45 "Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away" 03:08:17 cleaning up is always nice, but suddenly forcing players to adapt to new keys isn't 03:08:28 monqy: "suddenly" 03:08:32 when unnecessary, I mean 03:08:38 ghallberg: suddenly! 03:08:41 As dpeg says they will have two versions to learn :P 03:08:49 That's like... a year? 03:08:59 monqy: we changed command keys quite drastically for 0.3 or so 03:09:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:08 ghallberg: I was just agreeing with Zaba 03:09:10 as I see it, we should think of new players 03:09:18 monqy: mmk 03:09:22 ghallberg, it's not unnecessary as long as somebody is using it 03:09:23 and players are 03:09:24 old players can get an option to keep the old way 03:09:24 dpeg: yes; as above, I was just agreeing with Zaba 03:09:30 about the W/P debacle: uh oh, that's a terrible idea. 03:09:30 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:09:39 it is vital to have such important commands idempotent 03:10:06 kilobyte: dpeg told us already. 03:10:15 if you don't spend several seconds after every keypress reading the output, you'll disrobe accidentally a lot 03:10:47 kilobyte: I won't allow merging W and P, don't worry 03:10:55 my concern is just deprecating R and T 03:11:03 is this about (W/P)/(T/R) or about (W/T)/(P/R) 03:11:20 er, there is nothing wrong with merging W and P to me 03:11:22 disrobing accidentally a lot doesn't sound like something that would come from merging W/P, is what I mean 03:11:52 it's merging W and T that would be a disaster 03:12:31 haha, full confusion 03:12:47 I'm gonna shut up for a few minutes and let you clear this up :P 03:12:52 if you are unsure whether you're wearing your pants, "Wp" should always leave you with pants on 03:13:01 I guess no change will materialise 03:13:31 at least I keep misremembering what I'm wearing a lot 03:14:00 but it is highlighted on top of the list you get when pressing W? 03:14:23 it's a pain reading morgues and realizing my shield wasn't worn so I shouldn't take that three crystal spears in a row... 03:14:24 ot 03:14:26 oops 03:14:38 you can already accidentally mis-wear by pressing W followed by another robe, say -- this will start to change bodysuits 03:14:59 kilobyte: have you tried the equip_unequip option? All the stuff you wear is at the top in a different colour. 03:15:01 I keep doing that mistake even in the current setup. With W randomly removing things, it'd be a lot worse. 03:15:31 galehar: do you pause for a minute after entering every menu to read it carefully? 03:15:50 it depends 03:15:57 I was going to say that, depending on how the accidentally doing the wrong thing problem exactly occurs, it may or may not be reasonable to expect players to pause and read to tell what they're wearing 03:16:06 apparently not 03:17:06 well, it also depends if you're using auto_list I guess. Having auto_list to false and equip_unequip to true can be bad 03:17:22 kilobyte: for now, the only proposal is to make equip_unequip the default and don't tell new players (tutorial) about R/T. For me, we can leave it at that. 03:17:31 especially with wielding things, as butchering swap keeps unwielding your weapon and often fails to re-wield it 03:17:32 You would have to disable this option but that's all. 03:17:40 galehar: good point 03:17:45 you mean, you want to have new players suffer? 03:17:53 no, I want to make it easier for them 03:18:00 I read the usability test reports 03:18:17 fewer keys to learn ==> more Crawl players in the long run 03:18:17 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: edlothiol] 03:18:20 new players do take the time to read the screen 03:18:24 if you're concerned about too many keys, merging W and P would be good 03:18:37 it's confusing that you need different commands for the same action 03:19:08 okay, I assume that nothing will happen on this front, but it seems that your opinion in singular in the devteam, kilobyte 03:19:10 on the other hand, W and T are different actions 03:19:21 please note that the proposal is just about changing an option's default 03:20:05 I mean, it's about as harmful as having "get" and "drop" use the same key 03:21:34 kilobyte: there was a time when, in order to change hats, you had to Take off the old one, and Wear the new one. By now, you can do this in one keystroke (but the same number of turns) by just Wearing the new hat. Once we made this change (which is an option defaulting to true), it is the same to also allow un-wearing by W, imo. 03:23:26 but currently i'm also seeing worn items when pressing W 03:23:44 dpeg: it's a bit different; yes they both trigger a change in armour, but with current W, you're stating that you certainly want to wear something, whereas with future W that much is context-sensitive based on what you're currently wearing 03:24:20 dpeg: yeah, swapping is good 03:24:36 since it _is_ idempotent 03:24:50 you state that you you want to wear pants you have in slot 'p' 03:25:13 and no matter what you had worn before, your pants will be worn 03:27:34 I think the matter is comparing the potential chance for typos vs the gain of not having to learn two command keys for new players. I value the latter quite highly, but I may be alone in that. 03:27:41 In any case, pneumonia rest now. 03:27:42 you can add a question "Do you really want to take off your pants?" that can be disabled by an paranoid option 03:27:44 oh 03:27:52 I was about to ask another question; I'll save it for later, then 03:27:56 monqy: well, ask 03:27:58 oh 03:28:00 ok 03:28:35 it's about benefit to new players: would the W/T merge be more intuitive/easier to learn for them than the two sepearate commands 03:29:06 I think so, because they memorise "armour -- W command", "jewellery -- P command" etc 03:29:08 monqy: no more than merging, say, "f" and "z" 03:29:10 trying it and gathering data on usability changes would be nice I gues 03:29:25 whereas now they have to memorise pairs 03:29:49 dpeg: it sounds counterintuitive to me, commands are verbs not nouns 03:30:59 having two pairs is beneficial for reducing the need to ask before removing the last worn piece. although i don't think it is a _strong_ argument for pairs. 03:31:00 kilobyte: you need to learn all the actions for each item type, there is no way around that. Some item types have a number of actions (e.g. launchers and ammunition), but for the most basic ones (potions, scrolls, armour, jewellery) we'd be at one action for one type. Which is good imo. 03:31:31 bhaak: yes, I mentioned that above to due. But it's a fairly small advantage and ais would argue it is no advantage at all :) 03:31:48 I always forget which is which of T and R. 03:31:56 Can't we just merge T and R? 03:32:05 That list won't be terribly long anyway 03:32:31 "take off" and "remove" are awfully similar mnemonics, yes; same with "wear" and "put on", though 03:32:40 yes 03:32:46 silly english language :-) 03:33:09 there are also the somewhat obscure [ and " commands -- it would make sense if you remove items from there 03:33:11 bhaak: it's called "synonyms" 03:33:22 Is there any real use for wielding random stuff btw? Robes or food or whatever? 03:33:33 or maybe silly use of english language by rl devs :) 03:33:35 ghallberg: unfortunately yes, Mara 03:33:43 I want an "Are you sure you want to wield your cheese?" prompt then. 03:33:59 ghallberg: at least you get a prompt when attacking with your cheese now, I think 03:34:04 I "often" press w instead of W and end up wielding a shiny new robe. 03:34:14 dpeg: Better to have it when wielding I think. 03:34:23 kilobyte: but they aren't synonyms in crawl :) 03:34:27 I use " a lot, and [ a bit less. Having to exit from " would disappoint me, but as they are indeed obscure, it wouldn't be too much of a loss 03:34:36 ghallberg: the prompt was added because players bash stuff with a launcher quite often 03:34:47 dpeg: That's fine, have both in. 03:35:18 When pressing stuff too fast it's easy to wield potions or food instead of eating/quaffing 03:35:30 monqy: I use both a lot too, mostly because, as I said, I often forget what I'm wearing 03:36:04 kilobyte: since you challenge my assumption that getting rid of T/R is good for new players, would you agree to delegate that decision to Eino? It is only my interpretation of the usability tests, but he should be able to say something more specific. (Note again that it's just about switching an option.) 03:36:26 oh wait I do use [ a lot 03:36:32 I was thinking of some other command 03:36:34 ghallberg: in real life, there is lots of cheese that is more dangerous than a long sword, so it's obviously a bug in dcss that it doesn't reflect that in game play ;-) 03:36:44 maybe ]? is ] a command? 03:36:54 ghallberg: in Zot:5 you can die from a single typo... I had that twice. We try to reduce that, but ultimately, you have to take it slow when dangerous. 03:37:01 bhaak: Woudl work better as a throwing weapon :P 03:37:14 monqy: I meant that one that lists armour -- is it not [ ? 03:37:20 dpeg: that's [ 03:37:34 dpeg: let's talk with Eino, yeah 03:37:39 dpeg: I was thinking of some other option, maybe another that listed armour? 03:37:40 dpeg: Guess I just have to play slower--- 03:37:55 dpeg: taking it slow when dangerous is acceptable, taking it slow during regular play not really 03:38:06 and then boom, you're unaware you're fighting naked 03:38:28 ghallberg: the point is to play slow when needed 03:38:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:44 ah, I was indeed thinking of ], the command that displays all equipped items 03:38:54 at least I think that's what it does 03:38:56 quite obscure 03:39:01 dpeg: yeah, and playing slow when not needed is tedious 03:39:02 kilobyte: what about a message if you're running off with body parts uncovered even though you have appropriate items? 03:39:09 dpeg: Yeah but this happens on D:5 or so, and then I'm wielding a cheese and getting into silly "Are you sure you want to attack"-loops 03:39:25 kilobyte: this would also help in other contexts 03:39:33 Those prompts should be better too... 03:39:51 dpeg: prompts slow playing even more, and you learn to ignore them 03:40:03 ghallberg: make a list of the prompts you want to add/remove/change and post it somewhere (forum or wiki), please. 03:40:21 it's like in Windows where you have prompts like "are you sure you want to exit this program?", which makes people ignore prompts instinctively 03:40:22 kilobyte: but running around without wearing your hat is generally disagreeable. 03:40:24 dpeg: getting a prompt after putting on a bad thing then taking off (before finding a good substitute) might get a bit tiresome, but I don't know how much that occurs 03:40:38 So a message seems like a good idea in any case -- players can turn that into a prompt if they want to. 03:40:39 dpeg: not around jellies 03:40:45 dpeg: Gonna think about it. 03:40:59 I wasn't talking about a prompt, just a message. 03:41:24 You can suppress it, if you want. You can turn it into a prompt, if you're so inclined. 03:41:28 dpeg: The one I find most annoying is "Are you sure you want to target yourself", when you press no I think it should cancel the cast/fire. But that might just be me. 03:41:36 dpeg: oh, sounds reasonable 03:41:52 ghallberg: yes, many things could be improved there. A list is really welcome :) 03:41:53 dpeg: if you're concerned that someone might not know how to take stuff on, we may add a line on the top of the item menu when in hints mode 03:42:07 kilobyte: no, that is not my concern. 03:42:08 dpeg: Cool. Maybe tomorrow after my exam :P 03:42:12 cool! 03:42:22 dpeg: then what's the real reason you want to merge W and T? 03:42:22 dpeg: I've got my summer holiday from tomorrow until sunday! XD 03:42:42 For example, it happens sometimes to me that I collect armour items and just forget to wear them. A message would remind me. 03:43:08 kilobyte: the real reason is to reduce the number of commands keys to learn for new players by two. 03:43:51 that would be good if there wasn't a cost 03:43:57 But I'll talk to Eino about the matter, perhaps I overestimate the gain. 03:44:00 kilobyte: yes, perhaps 03:44:13 and the cost, slowing down play, is quite big 03:44:15 My suggestion still stands: Merge T/R 03:44:38 kilobyte: Please mention that alternative t Eino aswell :) 03:44:47 we'll do 03:44:58 cool 03:45:01 ghallberg: yeah 03:45:26 these two commands are quite rare, indeed; you usually swap things rather than remove them 03:46:24 another usability idea: what about REMOVING the auto-removal of armour/jewelry/weapons when dropping things? 03:47:34 the only case you actually do that is dropping a bad ring after you identify/uncurse it 03:49:27 kilobyte: this is an option 03:49:37 I never use it 03:50:17 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:16 dpeg: I guess most new players play tiles with the mouse. Less keys to learn. You can wear or remove items just by clicking them. 03:52:22 kilobyte: what's the gain? 03:52:30 galehar: hm, good point 03:52:46 I am typing up a long email to the devteam, and it probably does not matter 03:53:44 galehar: D[ will drop the whole pile of orc robes you checked, or your armour swaps when moving to a stash, etc 03:54:16 but dpeg is right, there is easy_unequip which can be disabled 03:55:26 kilobyte: which is default, do you know? 03:56:12 defaults to on (auto-removal on drop) 03:56:40 ah, not my preferred default :) 03:56:51 that reminds me, have the complaints about D dropping the orb of zot/other items and players not noticing surfaced yet? It hasn't happened to me, but there was some talk in ##crawl about it happening 03:56:56 greensnark was very fond of it, iirc 03:57:25 monqy: hehe 03:57:38 I've only heard complaints of it dropping the orb of zot, no other items, and I think that may have only happened once 03:58:27 monqy: Special casing that shoudl be ok. 03:58:41 Or just add a prompt when dropping the orb. 03:58:47 yes 03:58:49 ghallberg: might be better for a default !d autoinscription on it 03:58:49 "You really shouldn't do that you know." 03:58:55 monqy: Yeah. 03:58:57 monqy: good point 03:58:57 ghallberg: or goldify it like runes 03:58:59 goldify the Orb :p 03:59:06 no, I want to have it weight 03:59:11 godify the orb! 03:59:18 goldified with weight? dunno 03:59:19 FR: orb god 03:59:29 due: elaborate please :p 03:59:30 useless orb of weight? another game already has that 03:59:30 due: Yo lose your religion as soon as you start the orb run? 03:59:34 Awesome 03:59:37 bhaak: <3 04:00:01 my pity with goldified orb is that then it's impossible to wield it for ascent :( 04:00:07 kilobyte: I want an orb god. 04:00:13 kilobyte: also: orb spiders. 04:00:20 due: orb bats 04:00:27 megaorbs? 04:00:31 orb orcs 04:02:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:29 due: rename vanilla spiders, technically they're orb ones 04:02:49 true! 04:02:53 ??spider 04:02:53 spiders nest[1/3]: A new timed portal vault in 0.7! Insect-themed, and may join the Shoals/Swamp/Snake lottery one day. https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:spider Enjoy the poison. And the ghost moths. And the poison. 04:02:56 @??spider 04:02:57 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 42. 04:03:01 they are not purple, though. 04:03:32 I don't think there are any magenta spiders. Tarantellas or something are on lightmagenta though? 04:03:40 dpeg: the thing with the orb is: should it be possible to cTele away by dropping the orb? 04:03:55 by "spiders" I mean "s-glyph monsters" 04:04:07 @??tarantella 04:04:07 tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 813(confuse) | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 90. 04:04:09 @??ghost moth 04:04:09 ghost moth (06y) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 55-94 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 1805(drain dexterity), 1805(drain strength), 1205(strong poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 3460. 04:04:13 ah, 'y' 04:05:28 kilobyte: yes, why not? 04:06:05 can anyone of you log in to the Tavern? It claims the password is bad, even after I changed it. 04:06:31 kilobyte: I'd like to, but players could tediously drag it with apportation so they can ctele anytime, and only pick it up for stairs. 04:06:36 dpeg: currently you can't 04:07:03 ah, ok 04:07:07 I can log in just fine. Same pw as mantis. 04:07:12 ghallberg: what would the benefit of that be? The turn saved for dropping it when something dangerous comes into view? 04:07:15 er 04:07:19 galehar: that 04:07:22 ghallberg: sorry 04:07:26 galehar: dropping takes a single turn 04:07:37 galehar: doesn't work for me somehow 04:08:01 can log in to mantis with the same pw just fine 04:09:21 I guess you could drop it, then (semicontrolled blink, apport, repeat), to get out of some dangerous situations with the orb on hand, but it's not like it's possible to teleport all the way to the stairs and apport it across the level 04:10:37 I guess having -cTele only when carrying could work. But if you drop it, monsters should come back to guard it if they lose you. 04:10:58 like ZotDef, right? 04:11:01 yes 04:11:06 (minus rot) 04:12:35 dpeg, I'm planning to post a FR about lowering anti spell-branding weapons from trog gifting, is this worthwhile? 04:12:44 not sure 04:12:50 dpeg, you get like 80-90% of those nowadays, and those that you don't get are usually slings 04:12:51 they have just been introduced 04:12:58 but trog only gifts them 04:13:02 pretty much at least 04:13:29 yes, this was considered a feature :) 04:13:34 Trog hating magic etc. 04:13:34 ahh ok :) 04:13:38 well then remove gifting 04:13:41 add a branding ability 04:13:42 :) 04:14:39 players love gifts, but I think they're problemtic 04:15:27 I think that the brand gifting is problematic since it feels like you get tricked :) 04:15:29 cbus: 50% of non-ranged non-artefacts 04:16:44 Trog also gives three times less artefacts than other sources, though 04:16:47 kilobyte, in the latest non trunk on cdo? 04:16:59 cause I pretty much only get the anti magic branding 04:18:33 cbus: CDO has 0.9.0-15-g1b13fe2, newest 0.9 is 0.9.0-19-g77be2dd 04:19:47 is the 50% in the cdo version or am I just having extremely bad luck? :) 04:20:38 back later 04:22:39 players love winning, but I think it's problematic 04:23:26 cbus: it's in since early June 04:23:27 I prefer good fun challenge over winning, but maybe I'm weird 04:23:38 I also prefer elegant design over winning 04:23:42 maybe I'm weirdest 04:24:43 play ivan 04:26:40 I really don'tlike trog gifting ranged at all btw 04:26:43 Makes no sense. 04:27:11 yeah, you can't use that when berserk 04:27:49 Yep. 04:28:48 kilobyte, ahh k 04:29:11 monqy, well it gets annoying when you can't enter dungeons because of resistance lack 04:29:17 and its almost always like that it feels now :) 04:29:37 cbus: hm? 04:40:13 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:10:02 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:18:36 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 05:22:31 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:49:56 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:17:48 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:11 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:54 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:37:14 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:41:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:43 03kilobyte * rc7f073f61a00 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Short-circuit player_has_orb() unless we're on the way up. 06:56:50 03kilobyte * r8d3dd6641218 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): Cache position of the Orb. 06:56:50 03kilobyte * r9aecb92c850b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): First stab at Orb glow. 06:56:53 03kilobyte * rc17ed30b488b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Cache whether any passages of Golubria or glowing molds are present. 07:04:46 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:20 awesome @ c17ed30b488b, kilobyte :) 07:14:14 it's not a big speed-up, just one that always applies 07:14:30 which is great 07:28:07 03kilobyte * rb0a9b0f60240 10/crawl-ref/source/ (colour.cc colour.h showsymb.cc): Make the Orb glow pulse visually. 07:39:29 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:57 Has there been any planning on how to make it easier to have your intelligent allies follow you across levels? Especially when autotraveling across multiple levels. 07:42:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:29 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:42:39 -!- Xiberia_ is now known as Xiberia 07:45:39 ion: I have plans for that. They just have a hard time making it to the top of my todo list. 07:46:13 Ok :-) 07:46:26 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 07:48:34 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:48 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:01 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:37 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 09:05:32 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:01 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:44 Random crashes while playing webtiles. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4434) by Infinite Monkeys 09:36:54 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:01 This minmay guy is getting on my nerves. 09:37:22 kilobyte: thanks for the orb halo, btw, it is very nice. 09:47:42 dpeg: what do you think of my answer to him? 09:52:47 Lua error: global_prelude: bad header in precompiled chunk 09:52:53 Why am I getting this? 09:53:11 I tried to run after building from git 09:55:44 galehar: very good 09:55:55 it was as negative as my ones sometimes are :) 09:57:19 I guess we'll lose minmay sooner or later, he is discontent with everything we're doing. (Nothing wrong with that, different tastes etc.) 09:58:46 -!- DaneiTWO has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:59:38 I don't think so. I think he just likes to bitch 10:00:08 maybe 10:01:05 in contrast to other bitchers he doesn't provide good ideas 10:02:10 galehar: apart from monster xp, how is the player's strength incorporated -- via XL? 10:02:55 yes XL, corrected with exp apt 10:03:02 sounds good to me 10:03:18 perhaps we will need some modifiers, but that will come player feedback 10:03:47 yes, by making it more visible, we'll get more feedback on it. 10:03:53 exactly 10:06:31 galehar: ah, it occurs to me again: shall we ask our vault masters like Mu for (ideas for) D:14 maps? 10:07:13 yes! 10:07:39 or maybe we should ask around to other devs about this D:14 idea 10:07:52 it's a pretty big change 10:08:37 people! 10:08:40 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:hopping 10:08:48 the last edit, just before the comments 10:09:03 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:15 D:14 has a big thematic vault 10:09:42 about Snake:5 difficulty 10:09:59 at the end of the vault, portal to D:15 which asks for a rune (which can be reused for Zot of course) 10:13:38 hm, i thought the idea was that you could either bypass the vault with a rune, or clear it to get past without one 10:13:45 that's the version i remember hearing a while ago at least 10:14:11 the bypassing was Keskitalo's pet idea, but he never specified it :) 10:14:19 ah 10:14:24 I think it's okay as proposed for a start. 10:14:42 You just have to make up your mind which rune is easier to get, pack your consumables and use them. 10:15:43 well i think i'd prefer being able to bypass with a rune or clear the vault to progress past d:14, getting a swamp/snake/shoals rune right after lair probably wouldn't be that easy 10:15:59 MarvinPA_: discussing the secret pathway beyond the lock will take ages and probably lead to nothing (hence why I am waiting for a specific proposal) 10:16:51 well surely the d:14 vault could just have a staircase down to d:15 at the start of it (requiring a rune) and a staircase down to d:15 at the end of it (not requiring a rune) 10:16:57 MarvinPA_: ah, you mean that one can storm the vaultß? 10:17:01 right 10:17:11 well, why not, as long as it's hard 10:17:21 maybe that's not the same as Keskitalo's idea and i just made it up or heard it from elsewhere :P 10:18:19 might be interesting to try that or something along those lines, anyway 10:18:20 afk 10:18:32 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:57 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:07 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:24:05 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:51 dpeg, I don't like the idea of a large D:14 vault 10:25:55 -!- voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:02 large vaults are too hard to design properly 10:27:50 The vault doesn't have to be that big actually. 10:28:00 It could be bailey-sized, as long as it's hard. 10:28:03 yeah, something of the size of a usual branch entrance would be ok 10:28:11 or a usual portal vault 10:28:22 depending on whether it's encompass 10:30:52 and I don't really like the idea of doing such things to the dungeon topology, but I am no judge for gameplay matters 10:32:17 Zaba: you mean, making the game mostly linear? 10:32:37 kilobyte, no, I don't like the idea of D:14->D:15 requiring a rune 10:33:38 I have ambivalent feelings: on other hand, there's theme. On the other, you lose the choice what to do after Lair/Orc 10:34:32 -!- CoffeeOblivion has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:23 kilobyte: but it also adds a choice 10:35:36 currently you have six choices: D:~20, V, Hive, Elf, Swamp, Snake 10:35:42 which rune branch to tackle _now_, not in 10 levels when it's trivial 10:35:48 yeah 10:35:56 you would still have Elf 10:36:01 and Hive should be discounted :) 10:36:18 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:18 -!- voker57 has quit [Changing host] 10:36:18 -!- voker57 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:21 perhaps we should start with just one, small rune vault, to see how it works 10:37:19 one more issue: especially if Spider hits the game, you may get both Snake and Spider but no rPois 10:37:54 Hive's depth is 11-16 will need to be adjusted 10:38:12 kilobyte: you have pretty good chances to find rP in Elf:5 :P 10:38:32 kilobyte: perhaps we should ensure that another branch (among the Lair subbranches) provides rPois (like Swamp already does) 10:38:37 galehar: yeah, and far better chances to die, but I guess this is what dpeg wants :) 10:38:52 hey, you now also have Orc:4 as a valid option 10:38:59 we give, and we take away 10:39:13 kilobyte: I am sure that something thematic can be found for Spider 10:39:29 Swamp rPois? I've went there specifically for SDA twice, failed both times. 10:39:30 for example, some corpses could give rP for some limited duration 10:39:39 kilobyte: so we need to change some numbers 10:39:52 ghallberg: I get Lua error: global_prelude: bad header in precompiled chunk too 10:39:56 if we go with the D:14 lock, then we should also think about making Shoals easier 10:39:58 hmm, instead of 2 of 4 we could give one poisonous and one wet branch 10:40:05 kilobyte: or that 10:40:09 galehar: Ends with "No valid temples"? 10:40:22 no 10:40:33 btw, my recent compilation had a number of warnings -- a reason for concern? 10:40:40 ghallberg, rm -r saves/des? 10:41:14 Zaba: Thanks 10:41:14 workded 10:41:45 yeah me too :) 10:41:49 Zaba rocks 10:42:45 galehar: agree to start with a minimal implementation of the D:1 lock? 10:42:48 dpeg: there's one warning about an unused function in dungeon.cc (_place_door_mimics) 10:42:58 D:1? 10:43:04 D:14 10:43:09 That way we can, after waiting out the storm of rage, see how it works in practice. 10:43:18 And if we keep it, then we make much better vaults. 10:43:33 like just a portal with a lock, we'll see about vaults later? 10:43:40 yes 10:43:48 should be a small change 10:43:51 ok 10:43:55 hehe D:1 lock would be neat. 10:44:03 All branches start on D:1 10:44:15 Zaba: the simpler of Forest generator algorithms I came up with before sucks halfling balls: http://sprunge.us/HRMJ, http://sprunge.us/DMIN 10:44:27 and the V:8 guards wait for you around the dungeon entrance 10:44:45 Zaba: and a naive way of regenerating the map out of LOS with it would be basically Abyss 1.0 10:45:19 ghallberg: a gauntlet of newts guarding the way down! 10:45:24 :D 10:45:29 geckos! 10:45:35 It's gotta be a challenge right? 10:45:42 With a sticky rune at the end. 10:46:12 kilobyte, hm, well, the former one is better than the latter, at least :p 10:46:37 kilobyte, the latter looks like something make_trails would build if it didn't build strictly orthogonal corridors 10:46:41 make_trail* 10:49:06 I'd try the other approach: creating a high-level graph and drawing it with non-straight corridors (and some thick nodes as "rooms") 10:50:06 it can be a better idea to try with that generator for Spider, at least there's no thinking required but just coding and picking arguments for the generator (which can produce greatly different results) 10:50:34 what are the levels in spider supposed to be like? 10:55:24 hrm, the pages with description and examples are gone, taken by some domain squatter 10:56:06 I got the original code, and by wrote a very quick-and-dirty (and sadly, buggy) implementation in lua (layout_delve) 11:19:01 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:26 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:29 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:41 is anyone of you active on SA? 11:30:43 mu is, i think? 11:30:58 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:34 They're raving about a "Vault:8 like vault in dungeon", when that map is an ancient (pre DCSS) vault, of Angbandy nature, as I've been told. 11:33:01 Then again, they rave off the tune from time to time anyway, perhaps enlightenment is not necessary :) 11:42:10 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:16 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:12 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:10 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:14:05 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:52 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:18 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest52582 12:32:16 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:36:27 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:39:09 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:36 03MarvinPA * r5afa6402f74d 10/crawl-ref/source/effects.cc: Fix a bug causing power to have no effect on holy word scrolls, rebalance damage (rwbarton) 12:43:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:30 yeah i'm on SA 13:20:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:17 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:30:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:23:08 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:44 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:25 -!- aristid_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:09 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:33 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:16 dilb reports on SA that Cerebov and Asmodeus did not move out of their corners (he detected them with Ash and used Ice Storm to kill them without seeing them). 15:02:25 Is this plausible? 15:18:18 I've seen it happen 15:18:41 I wasn't following Ash, but I did spam Ice Storm around a corner where I knew he was and he never chased me. 15:19:07 It was in the new Cerebov vault, not the old one 15:20:54 dtsund: you think it is reliable and reproducable? 15:21:04 I could give it a try. 15:21:28 When I saw it it I thought it was a weird isolated incident, which is why I never reported it 15:21:39 would be awesome to have a bug report for that... quite cheesy to kill sentinels like that :) 15:21:47 I fully agree. 15:22:28 I'd actually like to see a guardian who's nearly impossible to actually kill, and is such that ninja-grabs are quite scary 15:23:19 Pan lord? 15:23:46 Pan or Hell, doesn't matter which. 15:23:54 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:15 Maybe Pan, because aborted ninja attempts while enduring Hell effects might be too much. 15:24:22 yes 15:24:34 we need a new Pan lord for the holy level anyway 15:25:10 he should at least have blink other as an attack 15:25:17 (that is, in the slot that blinks the player nearer) 15:25:34 or she, I suppose, do we have a female Pan lord yet? 15:26:03 don't know if our Pan lords have a gender 15:26:13 nobody investigated that question :) 15:26:15 holy pan level? 15:26:19 blink other is good, yes 15:27:05 At least one of the Storms 15:27:07 ereshkigal is a she i think 15:27:08 Maybe Silence 15:27:28 but yeah, dunno about the pan lords 15:27:51 oh huh maybe not, i thought i remembered eresh having a gender :P 15:27:54 yes, the guy has to hurt casters and meleeists equally well 15:28:12 Ereshkigal's tile looks female and flavour-wise she presumably is, but she isn't actually described with a gender in-game. 15:28:27 mythological eresh is a goddess, dunno about game 15:28:30 it looks like the pan lords are all male 15:28:36 Yeah, I just reproduced killing Cerebov without a fight. 15:28:45 It's the cerebov_st map 15:28:49 she also needs Borgnjor's and Death's Door as spells 15:28:50 dtsund: cool, can you file? 15:28:52 uniques default to male, and the panlords don't seem to be on the female or neuter lists 15:29:08 Sexism in coding! 15:29:19 dpeg: Will it be useful? It's just a D:1 wizmode thing 15:29:19 oh, eresh is female actually, yeah 15:29:20 sounds like a bug -- there is no reason not to follow mythology 15:29:25 dtsund: sure! 15:29:29 MarvinPA: ah, nice 15:29:33 but eresh isn't a panlord 15:29:44 unless you meant hellpan, in which case, yes there are females (eresh) 15:30:27 I don't know if the Pan lords come from mythology 15:31:08 I don't think they do 15:31:13 make cerebov and gloorx female, make mnoleg gender neutral 15:31:47 which is good -- the hells are standard lore, so they have overlords known from mythology, whereas Pan is mysterious and hence use Crawl style demon naming 15:31:57 cerebov's tile is sorta neutral, leaning male 15:32:05 humanoid 15:32:06 I googled Lom Lobon and there's a Lom Lobon in some weird MMO called Daimonin, but I don't know where he showed up first. 15:32:07 mnoleg is humanoid too 15:32:15 I've never seen them, I just know they're pretty big 15:32:16 (gloorx and lom are not humanoid) 15:32:44 Danei: lom lobon is ooold 15:32:46 Cerebov sometimes doesn't follow the player out of cerebov_st (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4435) by dtsund 15:32:55 I guess mnoleg's tile is neutral, but leaning male as well 15:32:55 monqy: i don't think mnoleg is supposed to be really humanoid-y though 15:33:01 dtsund: thank you! 15:33:02 Oh, uh, I should note that the save is Windows tiles. 15:33:02 he's supposed to be all weird looking 15:33:06 lom's tile makes him look like an eyeball 15:33:10 Eronarn: http://crawl.develz.org/info/tile.php?q=mnoleg 15:33:15 http://crawl.develz.org/info/tile.php?q=lom%20lobon 15:33:16 http://www.daimonin.org/picture/lom-lobon-eye-master 15:33:20 monqy: the ingame description i mean 15:33:29 oh 15:33:31 It's easy to reproduce, though; just lure him into the corner next to his door, scamper out, and spam around the corner 15:33:34 A weirdly glowing figure, dancing through the twisted air of Pandemonium. 15:33:35 ? 15:33:43 oh, guess that's just generic 15:33:47 mnoleg's tile is terrible 15:33:49 man that mnoleg tile is 15:33:50 yes 15:33:52 yeah 15:33:59 mnoleg shouldn't be humanoid 15:34:03 here's a suggestion 15:34:13 by 'figure', have him be an actual glyph 15:34:20 brightly glowing, floating around, ever changing 15:34:25 Eronarn: Like Geoduck, you mean? 15:34:43 dtsund: the pokemonß? 15:34:55 No, the NetHack custom tileset 15:35:05 i don't know it 15:35:19 http://www.olywa.net/cook/pictures/tiles20x10.bmp 15:35:21 dpeg: there isn't a Geoduck Pokémon 15:35:25 Maybe the Abyss should have a lord or two as well, and they can be lovecraftian tentacle monsters 15:35:29 Geodude and Psyduck/Golduck, but not Geoduck 15:35:44 a geoduck is a real life animal 15:35:46 ais523: I should've known better, shame on me 15:35:56 It is a clam. 15:36:02 sorry, I know far too much about Pokémon 15:36:22 confused it with Geoduck (as an excuse, we have English, Japanese and German cards) 15:36:36 we could need a new tileset, too 15:36:48 i mean something more like: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4421585192_888c0692ea.jpg 15:36:51 don't know if that is really Implementable stuff, tough 15:37:42 dpeg: You mean like a choice between the current tileset and a Geoduck-style one with stylized glyphs as tiles? 15:38:27 I kind of like the current Mnoleg tile. It really does look like he's dancing. 15:38:28 yes 15:38:38 could be non-stylized for a start 15:38:48 but havin a tile set with letters would be very helpful 15:39:08 dpeg, are you responsible for black sheep? 15:39:18 dpeg, best naming EVER 15:39:19 :) 15:39:24 I could see how it'd be helpful; help mostly-console players test things in Tiles 15:39:28 cbus: no, I'm not 15:39:33 dtsund: for example, yes 15:40:30 I also believe that there are players who like the convenience of mouse and what tiles have to offer, but prefer glyphs over pictures 15:40:51 (for example, I have a terrible time distinguishing our tiles) 15:41:08 That's probably true too; I use the Geoduck tileset whenever I play NetHack. 15:41:16 Er, whenever I play it offline. 15:41:21 I think the zot trap tile should resemble a trollface instead of a skull 15:41:29 what's the plan for the holy pan level? is there a page? 15:42:15 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:42:54 Mu_: I don't think so. We should ask due if he has a plan. 15:43:05 To be honest, I don't even know what the state of the holy monster set is. 15:43:18 Is godless pan still a planned thing? 15:43:21 For example, if the holy storeys in ziggurats can be updated. 15:43:29 dtsund: just talked about 15:43:35 dtsund: there is no masterplan for Pan 15:45:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:36 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:21 galehar: hi 15:49:32 Zaba: also hi :) 15:49:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:50:11 galehar: I think minmay's whole point is that some monsters have the wrong xp values 15:51:42 -!- aristid_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:35 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:37 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:58 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:39 -!- aristid_ is now known as aristid 16:57:16 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:00:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:22 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:39 -!- hoody_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:04 -!- hoody_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:11 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:13 -!- hoody_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:34 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:34 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:24 Missing Runes Tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4436) by ontoclasm 17:32:30 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:40 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:44:03 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:59 -!- upsy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:02 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:03 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 17:50:03 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:05 hi 17:50:06 bmh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:50:08 !messages 17:50:09 (1/1) kilobyte said (1w 6d 4h 17m 27s ago): you see, about Mac builds of 0.9 ... 17:50:39 kilobyte: my computer has been/still is broken and I'm taking off from the Himalayas in a few days 17:51:57 bmh: are you planning on flying across the world in a hang glider, launched from mount everest? 17:52:39 Wensley: no, I'm accompanying a group of glaciologists, geologists and journalists to a glacial lake so we can assess the risk posed to people living down river 17:52:52 that sounds totally awesome 17:54:03 I'm doing field work to get ideas for procedural generation for crawl ;) 17:54:59 so excited :) maybe we can finally get the mountain branch done using the knowledge you acquire 17:58:29 unfortunately, my mac is going to be out of commission for a while 17:58:52 come the end of October I can easily do nightly osx builds, but I'll be traveling through then 18:00:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 18:21:29 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 18:23:04 dpeg: about the rune lock: coding the lock itself is trivial, but it turns out doing the bypass would require a rewrite of inter-level travel 18:24:08 would be worth it even if the lock doesn't happen after all, though, IMO -- we'd be able to have cycles in the world's topology 18:28:19 I think we can keep the bypass idea for later 18:28:25 let's start with the rune lock 18:29:57 if I rebase a local branch which has remote tracking, I can't push anymore, right? 18:31:23 if you alter a commit that is on the remote server, yeah 18:31:43 if it's a private branch, you can still push -f 18:32:27 it will hurt those who track your branch, though. Not bad if they just read it, but nasty if they have their own changes on top of that. 18:33:06 (I guess you mean "mimics") 18:34:19 yeah, it's the mimic branch 18:34:42 I'm the only one who has pushed there 18:36:43 03galehar 07mimics * r6f250f8eafbc 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Remove obsolete trap mimic code. 18:36:44 03galehar 07mimics * r50ff8bb9ed9f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.h externs.h tag-version.h tags.cc): Increase map mask size and add mimic flag. 18:36:44 03galehar 07mimics * r034abf06eb04 10/crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): New feature mimic implementation. 18:36:44 03galehar 07mimics * r8da0b564d703 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc dungeon.h main.cc mon-util.cc): Simplify door mimic generation chance. 18:36:44 03galehar 07mimics * rc61ba53748de 10/crawl-ref/source/ (27 files): Apply the new feature mimic implementation to all types. 18:36:45 03galehar 07mimics * rea9e8e20acec 10/crawl-ref/source/ (menu.cc mon-util.cc tilepick.cc): Fix the display of feature mimics in ^X screen. 18:36:46 03galehar 07mimics * r2737f5232289 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Take note when revealing a feature mimic which has been noted before. 18:36:46 03galehar 07mimics * r2f8940adb3e2 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-overview.cc: Use the branch_is_unfinished() function in one more place. 18:36:46 03galehar 07mimics * r831441bb5373 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-overview.cc dungeon.cc tags.cc travel.cc travel.h): Properly track several branch entries in dungeon overview. 18:36:56 03galehar 07mimics * rb3763bfd23ba 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Dungeon overview and travel handle multiple branch entries. 18:38:04 damn, I fucked up the last commit 18:38:40 Is the new orb glow mutagenic or cosmetic? 18:39:05 since you just rewrote history, rewriting it again costs... nothing 18:39:26 yeah, I'll do that 18:39:29 sorry for the spam 18:40:38 er, what, being sorry for doing something? 18:41:02 :) 18:41:05 feature mimics are almost done 18:41:21 RichardHawk: right now cosmetic, but that's temporary 18:42:09 03galehar 07mimics * r345a849a49d2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-overview.cc tags.cc travel.cc travel.h): Dungeon overview and travel handle multiple branch entries. 18:42:28 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: zzz] 18:42:32 RichardHawk: not sure what exactly dpeg wants, listed effects are reduced glow dissipation, hurting stealth, perhaps -EV like halo/corona, etc 18:59:21 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:02:09 I think having a non-acyclic level layout could be pretty great 19:03:31 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:14 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:24:22 03kilobyte * r714f4c1d3f1b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files in 3 dirs): ontoclasm's tiles for the rest of runes. 19:29:50 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:21 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:19 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:43 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:11 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:48 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:01 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:11 mumra (L27 DEWz) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (D:22) 20:08:28 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:34 03kilobyte * rc212926a9481 10/crawl-ref/source/ (travel.cc travel.h): Make several functions static. 20:40:34 03kilobyte * rd7e9cd9940fe 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Hush a warning. 20:40:34 03kilobyte * r02d59973adab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): Make some more functions static. 20:41:24 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:50 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:48 -!- DiazepaN has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:13 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:20 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:10 03kilobyte * r7a3c6d3a8cb5 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Add Samuel Wilson (ontoclasm) to credits. 21:35:12 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:36 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:00 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 21:39:50 -!- DiazepaN has quit [Quit: DiazepaN] 21:40:11 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:48:29 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:49 sewer vault trying to call "megabat", monster missing (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4437) by Kylearan 21:57:15 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:39 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 21:58:07 -!- hoody has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:27 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:38 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:22:13 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:23:00 -!- zpmorgan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:27 sousousou (L8 SEEE) ERROR in 'tileview.cc' at line 922: non-door tile (Ossuary) 22:35:20 -!- zpmorgan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:03 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:16 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:45 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]